If the postseason roster were up to me
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 04, 2010 
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Rotation
1. CC Sabathia
2. Andy Pettitte
3. Phil Hughes
I was leaning toward Hughes in Games 2 and 5 – Pettitte’s hasn’t looked sharp and Hughes has been better away from Yankee Stadium — but Pettitte pitched well against the Twins in two starts this season, one in Minnesota and one in New York. Jim Thome has bad career numbers against Pettitte, and in theory a left-handed starter is a good option against this lineup. I could easily be convinced that Hughes is a better option in Game 2, but I think I’d certainly go with three starters.
Bullpen
Mariano Rivera
Kerry Wood
Joba Chamberlain
Dave Robertson
Boone Logan
A.J. Burnett
Royce Ring
Chad Gaudin
I think Dustin Moseley deserves a spot, but 90 pitches on Sunday makes me think he wouldn’t be available for the first two games of the Division Series. Instead, I’d carry Burnett as that emergency, multiple-inning guy, then I’d put Moseley on the roster for the ALCS. I think a second lefty, even an unproven one, has value in this series. To me, the last spot comes down to either Gaudin or Mitre.
Starters
Jorge Posada C
Mark Teixeira 1B
Robinson Cano 2B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Derek Jeter SS
Brett Gardner LF
Curtis Granderson CF
Nick Swisher RF
Lance Berkman/Marcus Thames DH
No surprises here. My only comment would be that Brett Gardner should start against lefties and righties. Down the stretch, I think Girardi was trying to get Austin Kearns to snap out of his funk — he’d given the team a huge boost in his first few weeks — but Kearns was out of it the last few weeks. Might have been little more than bad timing for a slump, but Gardner seems to be a more reliable option even against left-handed pitchers this series.
Bench
Francisco Cervelli C
Austin Kearns OF
Eduardo Nunez INF
Greg Golson OF
I don’t think this is the way the Yankees will do it. It’s hard to tell a guy like Ramiro Pena that he’s no longer needed now that the team is in the postseason, but the truth is, I’m not sure Pena has a role at this point. He’s a more reliable option as a fill-in starter, but the Yankees aren’t going to sit any of their regular infielders unless someone gets hurt, at which point Pena could be activated. Nunez is a more dynamic offensive option off the bench, and he could play the field late in a game if necessary. Golson would give the Yankees a second pinch runner and a late-inning defensive upgrade. The team’s top pinch hitting option will be whichever designated hitter does not start. If the Yankees want to carry Pena, I’d go with Nunez ahead of Golson.
Associated Press photos of Sabathia, Robertson, Swisher and Cervelli
A.J. Burnett
Royce Ring
Chad Gaudin
____________
AHHHHHHHHHHH!
Unless scouting reports show otherwise, Golson with his speed and arm is a better fit than Kearns.
I can’t imagine Kearns will be back in 2011 anyway so there’s no point in using him in high leverage situations now.
In the at bats Golson has been given, he at least makes good contact.
Just don’t want Jim Thome beating me, especially at The Stadium…..Therefore I hold Andy back for Game 3….
Repost:
SJ44 -
I can agree that they took some things for granted and it did bite them. I can agree with that. I can agree that using Mariano for two innings in Texas was not a good move. (I’m not sure Mariano more than one inning ever again is a good move, but that’s another debate for another day.) I can agree that Gaudin was used far too often, Mitre ignored too much and working matchups ended up leaving the pen short in too many games.
But, and maybe I’m wrong, these veteran players still had some games in their control and failed, and even if “the strategy” was wrong, there were enough winnable games to have made the last 3 weeks less stressful. And why would veteran players be confused about what their job is – win games.
As far as HFA – the way I see it, the Yankees are capable of winning one in Minnesota. And then HFA switches. What they have to do is TCB at Yankee Stadium and be done with it.
Moving forward, it’s the same strategy. Win one of the first two, 2 of the next three, one of 2 on the road, preferably Game 6.
I think they can do it.
Up until the last 3 weeks of the season, the Yankees had one of the best road records in the league, even if the offensive particulars weren’t stellar.
Repost:
SJ44 -
I can agree that they took some things for granted and it did bite them. I can agree with that. I can agree that using Mariano for two innings in Texas was not a good move. (I’m not sure Mariano more than one inning ever again is a good move, but that’s another debate for another day.) I can agree that Gaudin was used far too often, Mitre ignored too much and working matchups ended up leaving the pen short in too many games.
But, and maybe I’m wrong, these veteran players still had some games in their control and failed, and even if “the strategy” was wrong, there were enough winnable games to have made the last 3 weeks less stressful. And why would veteran players be confused about what their job is – win games.
As far as HFA – the way I see it, the Yankees are capable of winning one in Minnesota. And then HFA switches. What they have to do is TCB at Yankee Stadium and be done with it.
Moving forward, it’s the same strategy. Win one of the first two, 2 of the next three, one of 2 on the road, preferably Game 6.
I think they can do it.
Up until the last 3 weeks of the season, the Yankees had one of the best road records in the league, even if the offensive particulars weren’t stellar.
I would definitely go w/ a 3 man rotation, I would go w/ Phil for game 2, but would be happy either way.
I would bring Pena, he is more versatile and could even catch in a pinch.
I wouldn’t bring Ring, no experience, and Wood/D-rob can get lefties out.
So SJ, you’ve blamed Joe for taking the foot off the accelerator (as have I) -don’t you have to give the same grief to Cashman?
I still want to know what is going to happen in the future? Most races are not blowouts – they are close and a win here or there counts. Are Joe and Cash going to give up on the division and just hope for the WC from here on out? If so, then they should halve the ticket prices; they shouldn’t charge so much when they only care about 2nd place.
If the Yankees get past the ALDS, I think they will be fine. If they get into the WS, I expect them to be a very tough customer because they will have gotten past their issues.
SP? CC is a rock. Andy? I’ve no idea because he’s really rusty. Phil? As SJ said, he had a bad post-season last year – though I believe SJ has also said that SSS don’t mean much. I think he’ll be fine, but it’s a wait and see thing. Then again, what AL team doesn’t have questions with their pitching?
Chad,
I just don’t see how you can keep Ring on the roster.
Would you seriously trust him in a difficult spot against a tough lefty over those other guys?
He’s an extremely limited pitcher and didn’t show me anything over the course of his five appearances that would indicate he would be an asset in the postseason.
I do happen to agree with you about Nunez, 100 %.
I still would go Andy in game 2 and I feel strongly that’s what the Yankees will do.
I’ve no problem with Phil at home. He’s given up HRs on the road and when he was pitching great earlier this season, he didn’t give up any HRs- road or home. He hasn’t been that bad in that regard lately and perhaps mixing his pitches has helped. In any case, the Yanks can not be scared of pitching Phil at home – it’s a matter of trust.
Chamberlain ahead of Robertson? No way.
On the Girardi show, he seemed very impressed with Golson and mentioned that Golson had made an impression with his bat, as well.
I’d take Golson too, but what a horrible bench.
Given his propensity for giving up home runs at Yankee Stadium and breaking up the 2 lefties in the rotation, it makes sense to pitch Phil in Game 2.
As for Ramiro Pena, I think it also makes sense to keep him on the roster. Kearns really offers nothing at this point.
Giradi had the speed contoll on the Yanks after Labor or the 8 game win streak…….We’ll now wait and see how it all shakes out…….Yanks in 4, Twins are tough and how many times do the Bombers keep bouncing them out ????
Morneau ruled out for entire postseason
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5648242
What an arm Golson has…………
What are we going to do with Phil next year? Pitch him only on the road?
Betsy -
I don’t know if you saw my post this morning – I think you left before it went through. But I think the reason it was done this way this year was all the nagging injuries. I think if they’re healthy, they won’t ever do it this way again. I think if they’re not healthy they probably don’t do it quite this way again.
That’s tough for Morneau.
Might be a good break for the Yankees, but you never wish that for anybody.
Royce Ring didn’t impress enough to be on the roster IMO.
Betsy,
I said they made an organizational decision to play out the last month the way they did.
If they fail, that’s on everybody, Cash included.
Girardi however, fills out the lineup card and makes the pitching decisions. He bears responsibility for that and he had a poor September.
Hopefully, he has a better October.
Pat M -
Could it be that Girardi and Cashman thought the 8-game win streak was proof the Yankees were strong enough to deal with “the strategy,” and it backfired?
No Royce Ring. I’m fine with leaving Moseley off this round’s roster, but he needs to be on the next one.
Mitre is a lock.
Gardner starts everygame, and would lead off against righties. If I’m not mistaken he has good numbers in the leadoff spot. I don’t expect Girardi to make drastic changes to the lineup, though. So Brett will probably be in the bottom of the order. Kearns does not start, and Thames does not grab his glove.
Doreen, I really think they think that if the club is healthy, they can beat anyone….I believe that to be true as well
“This is a team that has neither hit nor played well on the road the second half of the year.”
—————————————–
Post All Star Break the Yankees played 34 games on the road and scored 157 runs.
Which means 4.6 runs per game on the road the 2nd half of the season.
For some context on 4.6 runs per game:
-The Tampa Bay Rays are the only team in MLB who really excelled on the road this year. They scored 5.6 runs per game on the road (only 4.3 at home).
-The next best road offense was the Boston Red Sox. They scored 4.9 runs per game on the road.
-The Yankees rank in 4th on the season in MLB with 4.8 runs per game on the road.
Now here is the real kicker…
-The Minnesota Twins excelled at home this season. They were 53-28 at home compared to 41-40 on the road. At home the Twins score 399 runs this season.
That is 4.9 runs per game.
The Yankees scored 0.2 less runs per games on the road the 2nd half of the season than the Twins did at home all season.
Yankees is 4 or less, there will not be a decisive game at Target Field. I’d pitch Hughes in Minnesota but understand Andy going in game 2. Liriano hasn’t pitched well in August or September, Pavano is a grinder and will be tough, Duensing has been good as a starter but isn’t a mystery to the Yankees and Blackburn is mediocre.
I might feel different with Morneau and a 100% Mauer but that isn’t the case, Yankees in 4 or less…
typo: 0.3 less runs per game.
Doreen, I must have missed it – that’s a good point and I hope you’re right because this dance they tried to dance is a dangerous one, particularly since the division is going to be unbelievably tough within a couple of years
Royce Ring did nothing to suggest he can contribute to the Yankees in the postseason.
LGY -
Again, can I say thank you for the numbers?
Betsy -
I hope I’m right, too.
I think we will see a better team, w/ all the regulars back in the lineup.
I think Girardi was caught between resting players and winning the division…sometimes even in the same game. He did make some questionable decisions, but there were also missed opportunities. And if the #2 starter had won 2 more games, which would not have even brought him to .500, the Yankees would have won the AL east.
SJ, yes, I agree – I was just wondering if you would also criticize Cash. If so, I wonder about his philosophy.
I’ve no problems with the Yanks on the road – they do still have a winning record. Let’s face it – they’ve played very poorly at home in stretches as well. If they are on their games, road or home, makes absolutely no difference
SJ
I didn’t quite understand what Joe G was doing the last 30 to 40 days. I would have loved for him to play the “B” Lineup a couple of games instead of playing an awful lineup ? the time. This is what I expected out of Joe G the last couple of years, but not this year. If I didn’t know better someone decided that playing the Twins was highly preferred over the Rangers. Still it was a horrible use of some of the players.
Pat M -
So the biggest question is, how healthy are the Yankees?
Gaudin 16 homers in 60+ innings-no thanks.
I’d have more faith in Albaladejo than Royce Ring, but not by much.
Mitre has done the job and it was a major mistake not bringing him out for the following inning this weekend.
I hope AJ is only needed for pie!
Some more context on the impact of HFA in the postseason:
“Baseball has staged 105 playoff series in the wild card era. Guess how many times a series went the distance — in any round — to set up a win-or-go-home game. Time’s up. The answer is only 18 out of 105. That’s 18 “ultimate” playoff games in 15 years. Only one of the past 14 postseason series has gone the full complement of games. That game, Game 7 of the 2008 ALCS, was the most watched baseball game in cable history.:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
83% of postseason series since the playoff era where the extra game at home did not factor in whatsoever.
sorry another typo: *wildcard* era
repost:
Here’s my take. 3 man rotation.
I like Pettitte pitching second. Don’t want to have Hughes pitching a critical game 5 if there happens to be one. I do understand the other side of it though.
I take Mitre over Gaudin if that’s my choice.
Like to see Golson given a role. He can run, throw, and field. He was making good contact towards the end of the season.
No to Ring. He hasn’t proven anything.
Thames-Berkman DH.
Jorge Catches all games.
If you think you need defense take Pena. If you think you need more offense and less glove go with Nunez.
And I was on record in saying we should have been going for HFA all the way.
SJ44
That’s where you are wrong. The franchise prioritizes winning World Series. You dont get accolades for winning Division Titles.
The Yankees were not going to go all out for winning the Division at the expense of the World Series.
It’s all academic.
Genius Joe Girardi will blow the series when he starts AJ in game 2 (“he’s done it before for us”).
No problem Doreen
I definitely wouldn’t put Ring on the roster. I don’t agree with some people that a bad lefty is better than a righty because he throws with his left hand. He wasn’t impressive in his handful of appearances and you don’t hand the ball to him in the post season. I would take Mitre and Moseley or Mitre and Gaudin.
Kearns better not get one at bat or even worse start a game over Gardner. Let Gardner play against Liriano and Duensing and hope he can walk or slap a base hit. We have watched Kearns strike out enough recently and we don’t have to watch him anymore. He looks like he swinging blindfolded. Also his defense is awful and I would rather have Gardner’s defense in there instead of someone that can’t make contact anyway.
I refuse to believe that the Yankees were so afraid of facing Cliff Lee that they’d “aim” for Minnesota. Because, really, what if Texas defeats the Rays and The Yankees defeat Minny? They face Lee anyway. Or is it just in the 5-game series that they didn’t want to see Lee?
The ALDS rotation should be CC, Hughes, Pettitte, CC, Hughes, and here’s why:
1) Phil has been much better and much less succeptible to the HR on the road than at home. Minnesota’s ballpark plays big and Phil can give up a lot of fly balls.
2) Andy is barely off the DL and hasn’t been sharp his last 2 times out
3) Phil seems to have a big-game mentality and a knack for stepping up in high pressure situations. See game 3 2007 ALDS, the game against the Sox last Sunday, and his stint in the bullpen last year. I trust him to keep it together in a potential do or die game 5.
4) Andy can marginalize Minny’s left leaning lineup with the short porch at home in Game 3
With AJ crapping the bed every 5 days, it’s time for the 2010 All-Star Phil Hughes to step up and prove that he’s got the stuff to be our #2 (until we sign Cliff Lee next year of course).
LGY
you are a wealth of information…most of it encouraging
LGY -
Numbers can be our friends sometimes.
Agree with Chad except I’d take Ring off and add Mitre…take Nunez off and add Pena…..and start Hughes in Game 2.
The problem with the numbers is, they are without context.
What are the Yankees road numbers the last 20 games? With RISP?
Road series won?
Its more than just looking at the raw numbers. Its looking deeper into them.
They lost road series to Texas, Toronto, Tampa and Boston in September. All good teams and the Yankees came up short in those series.
Small sample size? The post-season are all about small sample sizes. So, examining their September road numbers has merit.
Look at their road numbers in those series.
You have to look deeper into the numbers and when you do, they are struggling against good teams on the road. You can’t sugarcoat it.
Hopefully, it changes in the post-season. If it doesn’t, it will be a short stay in it for the Yankees.
Whatever happened in the regular season can be forgotten quickly come playoff time. Someone like AJ, Berkman or Kearns could be deemed clutch in the playoffs and basically clean their slates. I like what I’ve seen out of Nunez & Golson.
Coming home with 2 losses in Minnesota could be insurmountable. It will give the Twins all the lefty hitting energy they’ll need to wrap it up in the Bronx.
At least 4-5 Yankee hitters need to be clicking on all cylinders with plus run production and few stranded runners.
If Kearns starts a playoff game, I will have to stop defending Joe Girardi.
When I am king, AJ will be first against the wall….
It’s not a question of Royce Ring being “not impressive”. He was downright awful, and “pitched” (if that’s what you can call it) a grand total of 2 1/3 innings for the team. That doesn’t get him on the postseason roster (unless he’s got compromising Polaroids of someone.)
Jeers-
The other King has to die first.
Playing comfortably for the wild card is the kind of “smarter than the room” nonsense we all pan the Red Sox for.
It’s arrogant and it’s not the way the Yankees have played for a very long time.
As a season ticket holder I’m insulted by it.
They turned a 1st place team off a hot winning streak into an exhibition team and in the process blew the division and lost the extra home games for a team that hits considerably better at home.
I don’t like the team I root for playing that sneaky brand of baseball where they could care less about winning the division since the road was paved to the post season.
Betsy was right. They didn’t lower ticket, parking or concessions when Girardi and presumably the front office decided to “let up”.
I hope the talent in the locker room remembers how to put together wins and win series again.
The manager took away the importance of it. It would have been nice to open the post season at home so the NY fans could remind the Yankees what the post season felt like.
We have the talent to win this and get back to the world series. It’s not our god given right to go there, but this team was too good most of this season to go out in September like it was a pleasure cruise.
If the priority is winning the World Series than, it would be in the Yankees best interests to have HFA.
Winning the division doesn’t preclude winning the WS.
Obviously, they chose to go a different way.
If they are right, they can laugh in everybody’s face.
If they are wrong, they have an entire off-season to explain their failed strategy.
I am astounded one of Chad’s picks for the pen was AJ Burnett! AJ Burnett thinks he should be starting, he is a head case, to expect him to be up for pitching out of the pen is beyond credulity. Add to that his proclivity to throw wild pitches, hit batters and throw 50 foot breaking balls with Posada behind the plate and it makes even less sense. Oh did I mention he has no command and he gets lit up when he pitches?
The Yankees scored 4.5 runs per game on the road in their series’ vs Texas, Tampa, Toronto, and Boston in September.
One small sample size of 12 games doesn’t mean that it is predictive for another small sample size.
That’s not how it works.
All Joe’s drive for the Wild Card did was to kill the Yankees mojo. I don’t think they can get it back in one series on the road.
Texas-Tampa
Price vs Lee-Lee wins. Price gave up 7+ runs in 2 starts this season against Texas
Shields vs. Wilson-surprised they’re going with Shields over Garza in game 2-Texas grabs game 2 also
Garza vs Colby Lewis game 3-picking Tampa
Texas will win in 4 and play the Yankees for right to face Phillies, although I hope it’s Yankees vs Braves.
Just my opinion and i’m probably going to change it after I see the standings on Saturday
Ring didn’t show me that he can throw strikes. As I’ve said before the absolute last thing you want is to bring a lefty in just to face a LH hitter and then have them walk the guy….there is too big a risk of that from what I’ve seen with Ring.
If the Yankees make and win the WS…girardi was a genious. If they get bounced early then he’s opened himself up for critism. The Yankees have gone pedal to the medal to the end many times in the last decade and lost early as well..remmember Joe Torre?
Would anyone know how much the Game 3 ticket prices would come down to if I were to buy them early on saturday? They’re going for around $70 for the worst seats, any chance it gets down to around 50ish?
I’ll live with Gaudin, I’m assuming he’s going to be on the PS roster, but ROYCE RING? No. Please no.
John Sickles:
http://www.minorleagueball.com.....ung-player
NEW YORK YANKEES
Francisco Cervelli, C: 24 year old rookie, hit .271/.359/.335 in 93 games for the Yankees. A Venezuelan signed in 2003, he entered the season with a reputation for outstanding defense, although he ended up throwing out just 14% of runners this year. He lacks power and probably won’t develop any, but he should have a long career as a reserve if his throwing comes around.
Joba Chamberlain, RHP: He’s been around awhile but spent most of ’10 as a 24-year-old, not turning 25 until last month. Joba hasn’t fully lived up to his potential and many Yankee fans seem to love hating on him, but he still fanned 77 guys in 72 innings this year, and his component ratios were much better than the 4.40 ERA would imply: his FIP was 3.63, his xFIP 3.77. I think he can rebound significantly in 2011 and beyond.
Colin Curtis, OF: 25 years old, a fourth round pick out of Arizona State in 2006, hit .186/.250/.288 in 59 at-bats for the Yankees this year. His minor league career has been OK but unspectacular, and I don’t see him getting much beyond reserve outfield status, for the Yankees or anyone else.
Phil Hughes, RHP: He’s also just 24, but had a very good season: 18-8, 4.19 ERA, 146/58 K/BB in 176 innings, 162 hits, completing a successful transition to the rotation full-time after working mostly as a reliever in ’09. I love Hughes and if he stays healthy, he has the ability to become the next great Yankee ace.
Juan Miranda, 1B: 27-year-old Cuban rookie, hit .219/.296/.422 in 64 at-bats for the Yankees this year, after a .285/371/.495 mark in Triple-A. He has some power and hitting ability, albeit a bit short of that necessary to be a regular first baseman for the Yankees. He could slot into a DH role if he gets hot at the right time and depending on what happens with other players.
Ivan Nova, RHP: 23 year old from the Dominican Republic, 4.50 ERA with 26/17 K/BB in 42 innings for the Yankees this year, starting seven games and relieving in three. Had a 2.86 ERA with a 115/48 K/BB in 145 innings in Triple-A. He doesn’t have amazing talent but has enough stuff to survive in the majors if his command is there. He could be a fifth starter or long reliever going forward.
*************
A few years ago, he predicted Phil would have TJ surgery down the line and end up pitching for the Dodgers, lol – but I’m pretty sure he wasn’t taking himself seriously
G. Love -
I hadn’t looked at it quite that way. Kind of hubris. But I never believed they were truly “playing for the wild card” so much as willing to accept it as an alternative.
I do have a question though.
Fans are reactionary, no matter what.
So, suppose the Yankees do play all out and get the division with a game or two to spare. And then they end up going one and done in the ALDS because they were spent?
There would still be second guessing. Only it would be totally opposite of what it is now.
SJ44
“Winning the division doesn’t preclude winning the WS.”
You are correct. However, going all out to win a division and not giving players the proper rest could preclude a team from winning the World Series.
“If the priority is winning the World Series than, it would be in the Yankees best interests to have HFA. Obviously, they chose to go a different way.”
HFA may have been in their best interests, and it may not have been (Cliff Lee). However, they did not necessarily choose to go a different way. They just not to go after the division with 100% effort.
Also, it’s no guarantee that the Yankees would have won the division had they used their regulars more often or had they used their best relievers in the spots that they did not.
We have righties who can get lefties out – the key is to not make crappy pitches.
I think that even though Joe did a bad job, the players did a worse job. How many times could they have blown games open and didn’t, allowing teams to stick around and then beat them later?
Betsy -
LOL!
Betsy -
The LOL was for the comment about not making crappy pitches.
If the Yankees had scored 4.5 runs per game, which they did against Texas, Tampa, Boston, and Toronto in September over their full 81 games on the road they would have had the 8th best road offense in MLB.
If you take out the 2 games pitched by Cliff Lee and David Price, because it doesn’t really matter home or away where those guys pitch, they scored 5.3 runs per game.
Non-Cliff Lee and David Price division, the Yankees scored 5.3 runs per game on the road against Texas, Tampa, Boston, and Toronto in September.
That translates to the 2nd best road offense in baseball.
blake
October 4th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
“…..The Yankees have gone pedal to the medal to the end many times in the last decade and lost early as well..remember Joe Torre?”
************************
Hmmm. Joe Torre, let me think, yeah I remember him. Wasn’t he the manager of the Yankees for 12 years? I think he won 4 World Series, 2 pennants and 4 division titles. So he went to the post season 10 out of 12 years right? Yeah. I remember him.
CR9 – I think it’s likely that the Yanks would have won Saturday night’s game in Boston if it hadn’t been for Joe’s ridiculous bullpen moves in the 8th (and following). To somone suffering in the cold at Fenway silently rooting for the Yanks, it sure looked like Joe was trying to tank the game.
Doreen,
You are absolutely right. If they did go pedal to the metal to win the division we’d all be disappointed and angry if they lost in the first round.
That said, living through the safety net of the wild card left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
I don’t think George would have liked this strategy.
I also think if they did take September seriously, they would have wrapped the division up early and had 5-10 games to rest everyone for the post season.
Girardi let up too soon in my estimation and only time will tell if it had any effect on the team positive or negative.
I just don’t like the “hubris” (good word) we had to sit through this month.
It befits Theo Epstein and his band of merry morons more than it does the Yankees.
I know Torre pushed teams in the past to win, but this team didn’t need to be driven like those teams were.
Doreen, we laugh about it now – hope we won’t be crying about it later, lol!
Seriously, though – our relievers are good. I would have liked to have a 2nd lefty, but if the 2nd one is just mediocre, what’s the point?
i think brackman is better than gaudin lol
LGY-
You can put up all the numbers you want.
The bottom line is the Yankees have to play up to their potential or they are going to get beaten.
They have to pitch and they have to hit.
They have to do it on the road and they have to do it at home.
It’s as simple as that. No complex analysis needed.
Niblick – Good thing you “silently” rooted for them, lol! To each his own. I’ll agree to disagree.
Here’s the simplest way of looking at it. If we had lost to Cliff Lee twice en route to a Division Series exit, every single one of you would be upset that we didnt tank for the wild card.
In a 2 or 3 weeks, after the Yankees have dispatched of the Twins and the Rays/Rangers, the division will never have mattered!
MTU, you can say that about every team.
West Coast,
Yea of course there was that Joe Toree….there was also the one that won zero titles from 2001-2007 and was constantly killed for running his team out of gas in the regular season.
Betsy -
Hope we’re not cryin’.
I want to take one series at a time. I really can’t process more than that.
G. Love -
It’s definitely not a strategy you think of when you think of the Yankees.
I think though that so much of what ends up being protocol in MLB is designed to hold the Yankees back, historically. I mean, think of the stink Mike Scoscia make last year about the Yankees’ ability to use three pitchers. And they “addressed” that (at least in the AL) for this season. I think the Yankees decided if they’re going to have this system (WC) they might as well take advantage of it as a “safety net,” rather than something to “aim for.”
It’s definitely a fine line and really unknowable whether they “aimed for” the wild card or decided there’s no shame in it and were wiling to lose games in order to be healthy. If it works, can we argue? If it doesn’t, oh boy, the fireworks will be exploding!
CR9 – to do otherwise at Fenway is to risk one’s teeth.
However, I notice you didn’t bother to address Joe’s bizarre bullpen moves late in the game. In game 161 of the season, you just don’t do stupid things like he did. Unless, of course, you’re mind is already in Chicago, and you’re dreaming of the heroic reception you’ll get when you finally bring a World Series championship to the north side. (Which I hope is the explanation for Joe’s behavior in the last 3 weeks.)
“I think though that so much of what ends up being protocol in MLB is designed to hold the Yankees back, historically. I mean, think of the stink Mike Scoscia make last year about the Yankees’ ability to use three pitchers. And they “addressed” that (at least in the AL) for this season.”
Beautifully stated.
Niblick – Perhaps Joe was trying to make a final determination on his postseason bullpen. I meant to put that in my last post.
Betsy-
Of course you can but I only care about what the Yankees do.
I agree that it’s not the Yankee way, but I haven’t heard rumblings that Hal was upset about it.
If you factor in the Baltimore series, the Yankees scored 5.5 runs per game on the road in September outside of the 2 games vs Price and Lee.
So, the Yankees struggled big time against Price and Lee in September.
Hardly a revelation.
blake
October 4th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
West Coast, Yea of course there was that Joe Toree….there was also the one that won zero titles from 2001-2007 and was constantly killed for running his team out of gas in the regular season.
******************
2001 to 2007? You mean when Torre’s teams won 2 AL pennants and finished first in the division 4 times? What a horrible track record! Making the playoffs 6 out of 7 years after winning 4 world championships in a row!
You need to pick a better horse, the one you picked just came up lame.
MTU, lol………….
“I mean, think of the stink Mike Scoscia make last year about the Yankees’ ability to use three pitchers. And they “addressed” that (at least in the AL) for this season.”
Actually, I was just informed that basically, the opportunity afforded the Yankees last postseason is an opportunity that is switched off every postseason between the American League and the National League. So, once last year ended, the number 1 seed in the National League this year was always going to get the same advantage as the 2009 Yankees.
In essence, nothing was addressed. It just alternated back to the NL.
Avoiding Cliff Lee is a losers strategy.
Yankee teams beat Pedro Martinez in his prime.
They don’t need to avoid Cliff Lee.
LGY,
It’s not a matter of being predictive. It’s a matter of gauging how the team played on the road against good teams in September.
They played horribly against good teams on the road in September.
Perhaps this team can turn it on in the post-season.
If they can’t, I bet this is the last time this “strategy” is employed by a Yankee team again.
I agree with those who said Gardner should start all games. But I have a feeling Girardi will start Kearns against 1 of the lefties.
AJ in the pen? No, rather have Mitre, For some reason, though, Girardi has hardly used him.
CR9 – Do you mean to tell me that in game 161 Joe suddenly needs to conduct an experiment to see if Royce Ring is the man – Royce Ring, who had pitched a grand total of 2 innings the entire year? That he is now considering adding to his staff a guy who had essentially never been tested before?
If so, then Joe is either insane or mighty stupid. Or both.
The Yankees when playing well can beat anyone – no doubt. They came back on Lee, they’ve hit Price somewhat and they beat Cahill a couple of times. If they aren’t playing well, they can lose to anyone – but that can be said of any team.
I honestly have no fear of the road. If they lose this series, it’s not because they can’t hit on the road, it’s because they can’t hit (or pitch) anywhere.
WCYF -
I second blake.
I really don’t think they were trying to avoid Lee and I agree – that’s for losers and that is most definitely not the Yankee mentality. You think you’re a good team? Go out and beat the best – that’s it.
“2001 to 2007? You mean when Torre’s teams won 2 AL pennants and finished first in the division 4 times? What a horrible track record! Making the playoffs 6 out of 7 years after winning 4 world championships in a row!”
———————————-
If Joe Girardi went 7 years without winning a World Series and got bounced in the first round 4 times, including 3 straight years to close out his career in pinstripes you would be crying and ranting about him all day everyday.
Oh wait…
You already do that.
West Coast ,
That’s not what we are discussing and you are totally missing my point. I’m saying there is more than one way to win a championship and whether you go “all out for the division” or coast in as the the Yankees did this year….the bottom line and goal is to win the World Series. The Yankees have taken the opposite approach to this year many times and still lost.
Austin Jackson ended the year at .293, where is the guy who said he would be over .300 easy?
“It’s not a matter of being predictive. It’s a matter of gauging how the team played on the road against good teams in September.
They played horribly against good teams on the road in September.
Perhaps this team can turn it on in the post-season.
If they can’t, I bet this is the last time this “strategy” is employed by a Yankee team again.”
————————————–
September play has absolutely no correlation to success in the postseason.
You are again just repackaging the momentum/edge argument.
It is not about turning it on, because it has been shown over and over it doesn’t matter.
The Yankees could be undefeated against those teams in September and it wouldn’t tell you anything about how they will perform in the postseason.
WCYF head would explode if Girardi got bounced in the first round for 3 straight years.
You may have to put a protective order on Joe if that happens with this guy around.
SJ44 –
You call it a losers strategy. I call it a matchups strategy.
Those Yankees teams were over a decade ago, and were not the same teams as the current Yankees. The current Yankees got shut down by Brian Bullington.
Also, the Yankees beat Pedro Martinez in his prime and his team in a 7 game series. We never had to deal with Pedro or a dominant ace in a 5 game Division Series. The closest thing to that was Johan Santana on the Twins in 2003 and 2004. And Johan wasnt yet Johan in 2003.
Also, in 1999 when we lost to Pedro in Game 3 of the ALCS, Pedro pitched in relief in Game 5 of the ALDS and wasnt available until Game 3 of the ALCS. The most he would have started in that series was 2 times.
SJ44 -
I don’t think they’ll employ this strategy again no matter what they do against Minnesota. because I think they really thought they’d win the division anyway.
Don’t the Yankees have to carry Golson for a defensive replacement. If you carry Nunez and Pena you got no outfielder for defense late. Take Golson and tell Pena and Nunez to draw straws.
“I really don’t think they were trying to avoid Lee and I agree – that’s for losers and that is most definitely not the Yankee mentality. You think you’re a good team? Go out and beat the best – that’s it.”
Betsy
I never said that we were avoiding Cliff Lee. And doing so is not for losers. It’s called taking the easiest road. The path of least resistance.
Although the 2010 Duke Blue Devils could not choose their road to the title, they were gifted a favorable draw.
And ya know what they now call the 2010 Duke Blue Devils??
Champions!!!! Not losers.
Gardner should absolutley play every game. Kearns hasn’t swung the bat nearly well enough to warrant taking Gardner’s glove or speed off the field….Granderson too for that matter.
The hilarious thing about Joe’s taking a dive to avoid winning the division (and facing Cliff Lee) is that Lee hasn’t been that great since joining Texas. ERA of 3.98. That’s not enough to tank the division for, is it?
Of course, Joe G. remembers Lee from last year’s World Series, and can’t probably get past that. That’s the same reason that he’ll start AJ in game 2 – “he did it for us last year”.
“2001 to 2007? You mean when Torre’s teams won 2 AL pennants and finished first in the division 4 times? What a horrible track record! Making the playoffs 6 out of 7 years after winning 4 world championships in a row!
You need to pick a better horse, the one you picked just came up lame.”
WCYF
You are fighting a losing battle mentioning Torre. There are people here who hate him and no matter what you say, they will never change.
Definitely stick with one lineup except for the floating DH spot.
Blake-
You are absolutely right. There isn’t a guaranteed formula.
All you should try to do is put yourself in the best position to win.
There is a legitimate disagreement on here about how to best go about doing that.
Some think the resting approach was the correct one. Some thought more pedal to the metal should have been applied.
The Yankees have taken both approaches. I doubt that either will always yield the desired outcome.
What matters, rested or not, is how they perform.
You could argue both positions fairly well.
For me it’s simple. It’s just a matter of winning. I don’t really care how they approach it as long as they get it done.
The other King has to die first.
—————————————————————————————————————
MTU,
Interestingly enough, I was in Boston last weekend and found myself in line behind the “King of the Lineups” at a Copley Place Starbucks.
But while dozens of second-guess questions streamed through my uncaffeinated brain, the best I could muster up was a puzzled nod in his direction as he collected his cappuccino and made a quick exit.
“You call it a losers strategy. I call it a matchups strategy.”
Francisco Liriano isn’t a significantly worse pitcher than Cliff Lee is.
Limping into the postseason to avoid Cliff Lee is just absolute lunacy.
It is absolutely a losers strategy. The Yankees should fear no one, teams should fear the Yankees. They should not adjust their own plan of action based on what other teams have or do.
If you so desperately want to avoid Cliff Lee how do you think there’s any prayer that they’ll beat Lincecum, Cain, and Sanchez or Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels in the World Series?
To go even further past the 2010 Duke Blue Devils being gifted a favorable draw, look at college football teams that schedule cupcake teams in their non conference schedule, years in advance.
It has nothing to do with being losers.
It’s called the path of least resistance.
Girardi needs to use the logic of “you are what you are when you were” if he has thoughts of using Burnett in game 2 or in the ALDS altogether. What he did in the 2009 postseason is not applicable in 2010. He’s a clear and present danger in stepping on a mound until he gets his head screwed on straight which is not likely to be anytime soon.
His salary should have absolutely no bearing in awarding him a start.
I don’t hate Torre. I liked him and still do. For a period of about 6 years he was the best manager possible for the Yankees IMO…but he had a different way of managing a season that is a contrast to how they did it this year….and that didn’t always work either. The team that plays the best for 3-4 weeks wins in October.
G Love,
You keep saying they limped into the postseason.
Why does it matter?
Jeers-
You were off YOUR game. Maybe you needed more rest (or more coffee).
Next time try that and you’ll be quicker to quip.
G-C –
I believe that Liriano is not as good a pitcher as Lee.
And facing Lincecum/Cain/Halladay/etc. would be in a 7 game series. And as Ive stated before, I hope with all hope that the Phillies and Giants dont advance to the World Series. Because without HFA and having to face those pitchers, it will be extraordinarily difficult.
They’ll be facing Lee if they win and the Rangers win. So I don’t think they were avoiding Lee.
I know that Cervelli’s performance in throwing out runners is poor…but a lot of that is the pitcher’s fault.
Also, Cervelli catches AJ a lot, and he is the worst at holding runners on…I don’t think Cervelli is as bad as some think in regard to throwing out runners.
Taking a dive IS a loser’s strategy. With the talent this team has, Joe G’s principal job is to not screw things up too much. And his micromanaging, “mix and match” bullpen strategy, platooning, deference to pitchers with respect to what catcher they want to pitch to, and his too clever approach to avoiding Texas – all that amounts to is screwing things up. Too much.
woops.
That question was directed at G-C not G. Love
“They’ll be facing Lee if they win and the Rangers win. So I don’t think they were avoiding Lee.”
First, I never said the Yankees were avoiding Lee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Second, facing Lee in the ALCS means facing Lee in a 7 game series, like last year’s World Series.
There is a complete difference in facing a top notch ACE in a 5 game series and a 7 game series.
liriano isn’t as good a pitcher as Cliff Lee but if he’s on he could pose just as much of a problem….maybe more as he has rbetter pure stuff and the Yankees haven’t seen him as much. The Yankees tend to figure good pitchers out after they see them enough times.
If you face Lee in a 7 game series, you will only have to face him twice. Because the Rangers have said he will pitch Game 5. Unless the series doesnt go to game 5.
No, actually I have reasons and back them up when I criticize a manager. I was asked not to beat a dead horse anymore regarding Girardi so I wont go into detail again, but previously I posted numerous facts and game situations to back up my contention that he is a very average manager at best.
When Joe Girardi has managed this team for 12 years and has gone to the post-season 10 times and won 4 world championships and 6 pennants I will run the Joe Girardi fan club.
RMS -
You’re making assumptions.
I loved Torre while he was here. Thought he was the best thing since sliced bread – until the midge game, that is. I even used to excuse his dropping ARod to the 8th batting spot.
But retrospectively, (20/20 hindsight), you see that in the years 2002-2007, something was amiss. They were strong for the season and failed miserably in the post-season. Some of that was on the players; some of that was on Torre himself.
The Yankees had the talent to win EVERY YEAR Torre was here. Starting with 2004, nothing fell right.
But I don’t blame Torre.
And I don’t blame Girardi. Decisions are made. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes, for lack of better reasoning, the baseball gods just smile on one team over another.
That’s why you just have to let things go, let things unfold as they will. We as fans are pawns.
No Manager can make up for a lack of performance on the field.
And no Team can make up for all of a Manager’s miscues.
Let’s hope we see less of both this PS because that’s our best chance
to win.
Perform and make good decisions. That’s the winning formula.
MTU -
I wouldn’t say that people thought the strategy was correct, so much as “understandable.”
A little bit of luck wouldn’t hurt either.
Doreen
I have followed this blog a long time but have not been posting long. The only 2 I have seen being “hated on” a lot are Torre and Posada. Some people just can’t let it go.
——————————————————-
Having the talent to win every year does not mean you will. Baseball is a funny game. The most talented don’t always win.
MLB Network right now reporting Pettitte is Game 2 starter. Is this all speculation?
Doreen-
I understand what you are saying and I’m not saying there’s only one way to run an Airline. Reasonable people can disagree about all sorts of things (and they do).
But the one thing I think should always be insisted upon is that they be accountable for their actions and that they try to learn from their mistakes.
I hope things work out fantastically well. We all do. We’re Yankee fans and we want our team to win.
If they do as I suggested above everything else should take care of itself.
The debates won’t matter and we’ll all be able to bask in the glow of # 28.
Either way, there will always be next season, and the one after that.
And we all can take solace in that.
RMS -
Amen.
The baseball gods have it all figured out. Everyone else is along for the ride!
***
GB7 -
If you’re lurking, Bye Bye Birdie is on TCM. Watching Ann Margret sing “Got a Lotta Livin’ to Do.”
Doreen,
Well said. Thing is, the Yankees may have taken their foot off the gas pedal a little early. I can’t argue with that, but I think it would have been an even bigger mistake to push this aged and banged up team all the way to the wire. They had numerous chances to win the division even with the strategy they applied and didn’t get it done.
To be honest, I think they had a strategy in place that would have allowed them to rest players and win the division as they did last year…that strategy just counted on AJ Burnett being better than awful. If AJ had been league average then the Yankees win the division by 5 games.
I’m going to wait and see how they play this week before making judgements.
And one more thing. The Yankees never rest. They ALWAYS try to improve. So wether they win it all this year or get knocked out in the first round they WILL be an even better team next year. They are always hungry.
CR9 -
Mine was a general comment, not directed at you or anyone else in particular at all (about avoiding Lee). Please don’t take offense.
MTU -
Yup! There’s always – ALWAYS – next season to b—ch about!
“Having the talent to win every year does not mean you will. Baseball is a funny game. The most talented don’t always win”.
*************************
Exactly. And that’s why a large sample size is the most important criteria in evaluating success in baseball and comparing one to others. Vinny Castilla had 200 hits once in ten years. Ichiro had 200 hits 10 times in ten years.
Doreen-
Cliff Lee. Jesus Montero. Those are just some of things we’ll hope to have to look forward to next year.
There will be many other things too.
December and January should be fun here! Jeter, Cliff Lee, Mariano, Girardi, Pettitte, etc.
blake -
Almost every post I have been making about what went wrong* with the Yankees ended with, in one way or another, “it was AJ’s fault.”
But maybe it was the Yankees’ fault for thinking it would turn around for AJ. Although, I think many of us thought the same way, or hoped the same way, anyway.
*”wrong” being relative – this team is, after all, in the playoffs.
Wow, Chad, We have the same exact roster in mind, except Moseley for Ring, but I forgot about his Sunday start.
MLB Network right now reporting Pettitte is Game 2 starter. Is this all speculation?
—————————————–
No tweets coming from the writers but reporting Pettitte is the # 2 is kind of like betting on red in roulette no?
always bet on Black, that is according to Wesley Snipe as well from personal experiences , though in small sample size.
Can you imagine the hysteria if Cliff Lee signs with the Rangers??????
No Ivan Nova?
Personally I hope Andy is number 2.
There is no guy I trust more in the PS than Andy Pettitte. No one.
The more he pitches the more I like our chances.
He’s as big game as there is big game. An absolute warrior. A proven winner.
If Lee signs with the Rangers, I’m buying a fleet of buses. One way tickets to the GW bridge, $5.99
Doreen-
If Lee signs with someone else it will really get interesting around here.
I absolutely guarantee you they will find a frontline pitcher one way or another.
“Can you imagine the hysteria if Cliff Lee signs with the Rangers?????? ”
Ahhh, we lived through Alex’s opt out /opt in and Sabathia-palooza so we are better equipped to handle any curveball Lee throws at us.
Nova is relatively useless as a reliever. And he won’t be starting a game in the ALDS. So no Nova
pat -
But Alex ultimately signed here. As did Sabathia.
I’m not sure this forum can handle Lee going anywhere else. Since the non-trade especially.
I think if Lee signs with the Rangers then one of two things happen….1) the Yankees try very hard to pry Greinke from the Royals or attempt to trade for another big arm (not sure who else would be potentially available 2) they attempt to improve the team in other ways and rely on what pitching they have….(Crawford or trade for an elite position player).
I think we can be sure of one thing…with the Sox probably having a busy winter and with the rest of the AL East trending upward, I don’t see the Yankees resting on their laurels.
Hopefully there will be a ticker tape parade down the Canyon if Heroes. Great recruiting tool.
If Lee doesn’t come here, the world won’t end.
I wonder if Joba will be put back to starting rotation next year .
Blake-
You read my mind again. Except it won’t be Greinke IMO.
blake -
I joke, but I agree. If Lee signs with the Rangers, the Yankees will do something for sure.
m -
Yup. Life and baseball go on.
MTU,
I think Cliff will be starting game 2 of the ALDS for the Yanks this time next year as part of the best pitching trio in baseball.
Doreen-
And hiking.
As expected, there were managerial firings today.
There could be as many as 9 openings excluding Donnie Mattingly signing on with the Dodgers.
The Jays, Mariners, Marlins, Braves, Mets, Brewers, Cubs, and Pirates have openings.
Can’t be sure is LaRussa is returning to the Cardinals.
agree with all the moves except gaudin…
glad someone thinks like me.
ring is worth a batter in the 6th inning or so…
CC
Andy
Hughes
Kuroda
Hughes
AJ
If Pettitte retires then we are in deep *(*8 in the case of no Lee.
Also, I would take a fly on Chris Young in SD , see what he has left. Pavano is the other attractive righty option on the market.
We’ve debated for weeks the merits of the strategy for rest and the merits for the strategy of going all out then (early Sept) and resting late. I’ve been firmly in the camp of pedal to the metal, then rest.
Nobody at this point can say either strategy is/was right. But we can say this, there is no way that you can offer any evidence that Joe G deployed a strategy that was consistent.
That was by far and away the most frustrating thing. Joe G is an enigma. Does one thing today, another tomorrow. Offers up CC as a sacrifice, then brings in Gaudin to close it up. Has an absolute on-fire bull in Arod, fresh off the DL, and decides to rest him.
Very frustrating team to watch and see being managed for the last 6 weeks. I love this team but the manager’s decision (whom I was firmly for hiring) leaves me more times than not, a believer the Yankees are battling their own manager in order to prevail.
Blake-
I believe we’ll get our Man but I’m not so sure about Andy.
Whatever transpires the Yankees will find a way to ensure that their rotation is competitive.
They know what they are up against in the AL East.
There is no time to sleep, and we have what it takes to obtain what we might need. One way or another.
MTU -
And driving up to White Plains!
108: what about the impending opening in the Bronx?
I have a question about the Manager thing.
Considering how well Schowalter has done with the O’s, if Joe G. were to depart, would he be a good alternative if he were available ?
The Yankees need to make Andy an offer he can’t refuse, not quite Godfather style, but along the lines of you know it’s nice to give us your first start on June 1, vs. Apr 5.
They need to do whatever it takes to get Lee and pursuade Andy for one more year.
MTU: Everything I’ve heard of Showalter is he is smart, very smart,,, but highly amped up.
Can he survive in NY, again?
You know a guy I’m intrigued with, other than Madden who has other things to do, is former Yankee LH Dave Righetti. If he was interested and there was an opening, Id’ give him an interview for sure…
Why would Showalter be available?
Burnett does not make any sense in the bullpin. He has never pitched out of the pen and does not have the mental fortitude to do that. Kearns should be left off the roster . Add Pena, Mitre and Mosley and scratch Ring, and Gaudin and keep your fingers crossed!