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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Like spring training all over again

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 11, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees will play simulated games at the stadium on Tuesday and Wednesday.

“You’re going to see all of these guys that didn’t have a chance to get it going in the division series,” Brian Cashman said.

For tomorrow’s game, that means six pitchers facing four batters: Joba Chamberlain, Sergio Mitre, Dustin Moseley, Boone Logan, Dave Robertson and Kerry Wood will pitch to Francisco Cervelli, Greg Golson, Austin Kearns and Ramiro Pena.

Chamberlain, Mitre and Moseley didn’t pitch in the ALDS. Logan, Robertson and Wood did pitch, but they’re all short relievers who were probably on schedule to throw some sort of side session anyway.

I have no idea if the regulars will be playing field like an intrasquad game, or if this will be like a normal sim game with no one in the field and results determined by a coach. I guess we’ll find out tomorrow.

The team hasn’t announced who will be pitching or playing in Wednesday’s game. A.J. Burnett might make some sense, but that’s pure speculation.

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500 Responses to “Like spring training all over again”

  1. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    We had to do a few of these in ST, unfortunately. AJ was one victim of the rain and Andy another – more than a once for Andy.

    It’s better than just sitting around getting antsy.

  2. MTU October 11th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    “A.J. Burnett might make some sense, but that’s pure speculation. ”

    One is always speculating when they say AJ might make some sense. ;)

  3. sunny615 October 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Let’s hope AJ’s leash is very short in the ALCS. Like pinky finger short.

  4. West Coast Yankee Fan October 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    It could be worse – it could be Vazquez. You never know AJ might surprise us all.

  5. 108 stitches October 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Good move. It makes sense to keep everybody ready. No guarantees when they’ll be needed.
    Sometimes the least likely heroes in the playoffs come from the bench or as a long reliever.

  6. CR9 October 11th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    stuckey – LMAO! And you just used the word “jocularity.” That’s great!!!!

    Eduardo – In all seriousness, I am a hero. Im a hero because I champion the cause of underdogs like the Yankees.

  7. Erica in NY October 11th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    4 Days, 4 Hours, and 31 Minutes until Game 1 of the ALCS :grin:

    (Note: I am going by the TBS website which says Game 1 starts at 8pm)

  8. KPB October 11th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    MTU

    How’s it going? Sorry I didn’t answer you a couple of days ago. After I made the last post before you showed up, I went shopping. By the time I got back you were gone. The pantry was low and I have a nasty habit of needing to eat at least twice a day. It’s an addiction, but I’m working on it. And as far as you wishing for the bayou, anytime you want let me know. :smile:

  9. Eroc October 11th, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    “AJ was one victim of the rain and Andy another – more than a once for Andy.”

    And ironically, the forecast calls for rain all day tomorrow

  10. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    I like the idea of settingup the rotation so AJ pitches all the sim games.

  11. MTU October 11th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    KPB-

    No problem. I understand. Gotta keep the furnaced stoked.

    Thanks for the invite. Invite Linda Ronstadt there to sing and I’ll be on the next plane. You’re always welcome here too.

    Keep on on chooglin’ :)

  12. MTU October 11th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Edit: “keep on”. sorry.

  13. Erica in NY October 11th, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Erin-

    If you are out there, check your e-mail

  14. Erin October 11th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Erica-got it :)

  15. KPB October 11th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Be back in a little bit, going to pick up a book.

  16. Bob October 11th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    please let it be game 2 AJ from last years world series

  17. jacksquat October 11th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Like most female actresses, Minka is overrated. She just does not look all that special in more candid photos. Don’t mean to put her down, but rather counter the hype. She’s not the hottest woman in the world by any means. I’ve dated better looking women and I’m no Brad Pitt, nor rich. But if Jeter feels he’s won the trophy wife, hottest woman in the world, more power to him.

  18. Erica in NY October 11th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    KPB October 11th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    Be back in a little bit, going to pick up a book.
    **********

    Don’t forget to put the book down again!

  19. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    “Texas won’t offer him that much money.

    If they did, they would be unable to sign their key position players over the long haul.

    It’s one of the problems of buying a team with so much debt. It limits what you can do.

    In fact, their best/only hope to sign him is if the money doesn’t go that high.

    I believe the Yankees will top any offer for Lee.”

    Well, I think we both agree what Texas will or won’t do is based solely on opinion at this point.

    I could see how the Yanks MIGHT be reluctant to give Lee Sabathia money (which is practically daring the latter to opt out), and that a team could use that to their advantage.

    Maybe, maybe not.

    But I just wanted to point this out for those who have interpreted your posts to mean that Yankees are prepared to match ANY offer in an open-ended fashion.

    I believe what you’re actually saying is you believe no one will make an offer high enough that the Yankees won’t be willing to beat, which is close, but not exactly the same thing.

    I hope no team surprises us all.

  20. Erin October 11th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    BloggingBombers For what it’s worth, Burnett was 1-0 with a 2.50 ERA in 3 GS this year against Texas. Against Tampa Bay, he was 1-3 with a 6.27 ERA in 4 GS.

  21. CountryClub October 11th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    TX just signed a huge TV deal that includes an 80 mil up front bonus. They’ll have money to spend this yr.

  22. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Let’s see…

    Prone to anger: check

    Not adverse to violence: check

    Zealous devotion to a cause bigger than them: check

    Self-possessed belief in the heroic nature of their cause and will be rewarded for their zealotry: Check

    Irrational, xenophobic hatred of a group of millions of people: Check

    This group of traits sound familiar to anyone?

  23. Niblick October 11th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    AJ Burnett never makes sense. Even for an intra-squad game. Or a simulated game. Or a game of strat-o-matic.

  24. SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Country Club,

    Not really true.

    Under the terms of the deal, they aren’t allowed to borrow against that deal for payroll purposes.

    Unlike other TV deals with teams.

    They also spent over 80 million dollars more for the franchise than they wanted due to Mark Cuban bidding up the process.

    One can reasonably surmise the “signing bonus” is to be paid toward the purchase price to get their debt under the threshold required to own a MLB team.

  25. AeroFANatic October 11th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    CC
    Andy
    Phil
    CC
    AJ
    Andy (phil in pen)
    CC (phil in pen)

    Sets it up perfectly, hopefully we don’t need CC in a game 7 and if we win in 6, CC is lined up for Game One of the World Series on more than regular rest

  26. CR9 October 11th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    stuckey – Those traits sound like they are describing Bostonians. That’s why we New York fans have to stick together and fight against terrorists Bostonians. We cannot give up. We cannot give in. We will win.

  27. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    I still see the Rangers as going all in for Lee…………..and if they win the WS, it’s going to be hard for him to leave. I don’t see the Yankees going 6 years for him – I wouldn’t. I don’t even love giving him 5; I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not the same pitcher by the 3rd or 4th year. Maybe that’s just my natural caution, but he’s not a kid. They need him, so I would go 5 and hope that it works out, but beyond that? Nope

  28. CountryClub October 11th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
    Country Club,

    Not really true.

    Under the terms of the deal, they aren’t allowed to borrow against that deal for payroll purposes.

    Unlike other TV deals with teams.

    They also spent over 80 million dollars more for the franchise than they wanted due to Mark Cuban bidding up the process.

    One can reasonably surmise the “signing bonus” is to be paid toward the purchase price to get their debt under the threshold required to own a MLB team

    —————-

    Fair enough.

  29. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    I still would prefer to have Phil and Andy pitch twice instead of CC 3x, 2 on short rest.

  30. Niblick October 11th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    Aerofan – if you insist on pitching AJ, I’d just as soon go through the order twice (except for AJ). That allows CC, Andy and Phil to pitch on regular rest. And by the way, did you notice that Andy and Phil outpitched CC in the ALDS?

  31. 108 stitches October 11th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    It’s a good idea to keep the arms of Mosely and Mitre stretched. Either or both could see time in Game 4 with Burnett on a short leash.

  32. pat October 11th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    YESKimJones If you missed interview with Robertson, Joba, Wood and Logan: http://mee.bo/dBn0Cy Thank you @JoeAuriemmaYES

  33. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Betsy,

    No right or wrong, genuine question –

    You good with Burnett down 2-1?

    (I won’t even ask 3-0)

  34. blake October 11th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Stuckey,

    AJ probably won’t pitch until game 5…at which point hopefully the Yankees will either be up 3-1 or have swept.

    Sabathia vs Garza/Wilson, Pettite vs Shields/Lewis, Hughes vs Price/Lee, Sabathia vs ?/?. I like those matchups in the first 4 games with either team.

  35. blake October 11th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    optimistically thinking of course. ;)

  36. Carl October 11th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    # pat October 11th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    YESKimJones If you missed interview with Robertson, Joba, Wood and Logan: http://mee.bo/dBn0Cy Thank you @JoeAuriemmaYES

    Kim: Do you talk curve balls with Kerry?

    D-Rob: No.

    haha

  37. West Coast Yankee Fan October 11th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Kim get a grip. They are four guys – they talk about you.

  38. KPB October 11th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Erica in NY October 11th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    KPB October 11th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
    Be back in a little bit, going to pick up a book.
    **********

    Don’t forget to put the book down again!
    ————————————

    Thanks Erica, I should have refreshed the page sooner, my arms are tired. But, like the Yanks, I’ll be rested and ready to go by Friday.

  39. Erin October 11th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

    ed_price Jeff Francoeur said #Rangers & #Rays “got hosed” by noon Central Time start Sunday. “I think that’s something that needs to change.”

    RiverAveBlues A.J. Burnett splits: vs TB: 18.2 IP, 6.27 ERA, 8:9 K:BB. vs TEX: 18 IP, 2.50 ERA, 17:7 K:BB. Small sample size but there?s that to consider.

  40. SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Winning or losing the WS will have no bearing on Lee’s plans.

    It’s all about the benjamins.

    You can be as all in as you want if you are the Rangers.

    However, they have three things going against them a WS doesn’t change:

    1. The Yankees have more money.
    2. Lee hates extreme heat.
    3. The long term prospects for success on and off the field are greater in NY.

  41. West Coast Yankee Fan October 11th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    I think Girardi should switch Pettitte and Hughes. If Price or Lee is pitching game three, I want Pettitte going against them – also in a deciding game seven.

  42. West Coast Yankee Fan October 11th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Correction – game six.

  43. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Another reason I would pass on Lee is I don’t like signing pitchers with back problems. At 32, Lee has already begun to show signs of aging with the back spasm troubles he recently had.

    There is an awful lot to like about Cliff Lee, but at that age, with demand higha nd sure to excalate the bidding cost into 5 to 6 years at over $20M, I would pass.

  44. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    I hope it doesn’t come down to it, but as I said last night, IF Texas were willing to make or match the highest bid, and they were coming off a Word Series victory (with the odds of him being an MVP relatively high), it would be a VERY interesting dynamic watching Lee leave a chance to defend the title for a team Texas ousted for similar money.

    I don’t watch free agent press conferences but I’d watch that one.

  45. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    I don’t understand people saying it would be hard for Lee to leave Texas, if the Rangers won the WS.

    What’s so hard? It’s a business deal, more money in NY, a greater chance to win year after year, and the endorsements most likely would be greater as a NYY than a Texas Ranger.

    I believe SJ44 is correct, Lee will be a Yankee next season.

    Cashman was willing to give up Montero this year to get him, so, when it’s just a matter of money, it should be an easy deal to complete.

    He was already picking out a house with CC’s help when the deal fell through.

  46. Jim October 11th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    If Texas wins tomorrow and the Yankees go on to the World Series to face San Francisco will they be the first team in baseball history to have a better record than all three playoff opponents yet never have home field advantage?

  47. Joe from Long Island October 11th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    SJ – if people don’t get that by now, there’s nothing left to say. Apparently, Mark Feinsand was tweeting (what a verb) the same thing, this morning, according to some on this blog.

  48. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    To all those ill informed baseball fans that don’t think the Yankees should, or will, sign Cliff Lee, please go to the back of the line, you missed something along the way.

  49. LGY October 11th, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    I agree with Neyer on this one

    “In fact, the Braves have just one more middle infielder on their roster: Diory Hernandez, who’s got a .138 batting average 53 major league games. Hernandez’s Triple-A statistics suggest that he’s capable of much better, but you can hardly blame Cox for not playing Hernandez’s .138 batting average ahead of Conrad’s .445 slugging average.

    In the first inning, that is. Still, the mind does wonder … Hernandez has played a lot of shortstop in the minors, along with some time at second base and third. Heading into the top of the ninth inning, the Braves held a one-run lead. Conrad had been charged with two errors already, plus another in Game 1. Leaving sentiment aside, was there a good reason to not replace Conrad with Hernandez? For just one inning? And if Hernandez isn’t markedly better with the glove than Conrad, then why don’t the Braves have someone who is?…

    …I can’t help thinking, though, that we should save one of those horns for Bobby Cox. Because when all the bad stuff happened, Brooks Conrad should not have been on the field.”

    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweets.....been-there

  50. Doreen October 11th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    I know this is rash, but I personally don’t care what the Yankees have to do the get Lee. I don’t care how long his contract is and I don’t care how much money they want to spend. I’ve thought about this a little, and I really do not care.

    I think the Yankees need Lee. Elite pitchers don’t grow on trees. I’m not convinced Pettitte will be back, and if he is, I fully expect for him to miss some games next year with something, just because he’s aging and little things are more impactful as you get older if for no other reason than it takes longer to heal.

    But as to the details of any contract, I’ll leave it to the Yankees to decide what they want to spend and how they’ll work out their roster flexibility. They have the information; I don’t.

    All I need to do as a fan is sit back and enjoy. :)

  51. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Remember from last nights conversation that the cost of living differences and taxes are very different between NYC and Dallas. A Texas offer of 5 years at $16M per would require the Yankees to offer over $28M per year. The 12% city and state tax for 81 games, plus the cost of living difference of about 40% give Texas a big advantage.

    Texas could also front-end load the contract like KC did with David Cone to make it even more attractive to Lee and give themselves financial flexibility down the road.

  52. Tom in N.J. October 11th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Betsy, is that you on Twitter asking Law, Piliere, Goldstein, Callis, well, everybody about Hughes?

  53. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Doreen -

    Well said, too bad others can’t see the big picture.

  54. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Tom -

    When some people have no thoughts of their own, that make sense, they rely on others to tell them what they should think and believe.

  55. KPB October 11th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Doreen

    All I need to do as a fan is sit back and enjoy. :)
    ————————-

    Wow, we have the same approach. Must mean good things are coming. :smile:

  56. West Coast Yankee Fan October 11th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    The only indisputable fact in the Cliff Lee saga is that no one knows what will happen. Logic may dictate the probability of Lee signing with the Yankees is extremely high, but that’s all it is. A probability. Until it happens.

    Yours Truly – Thomas E. Dewey

  57. Doreen October 11th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    It wasn’t hard for Damon or Matsui to leave the Yankees after winning a WS. (Matsui situation is different, I understand.) And they were with the Yankees for years, not months. Or any number of other players who played for a team, won the WS and then sold their services to the highest bidder in Free Agency.

  58. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    “What’s so hard? It’s a business deal, more money in NY,”

    I’m fairly certain the divide here is the assumption that NY WILL exceed any and all offers.

    I don’t think ANYONE is arguing Lee will stay in Texas for LESS money.

    Baseball player endorsement money is not a significant factor btw, for all but a handful of guys.

    I think there may be some overestimating going on as to Cliff Lee’s endorsement potential in NY.

    CC Sabathia, the Yankees ace, newly-minted WS hero, who is a larger than life figure with a dynamic personality and marketable name, made $500k in endorsement dollars this year according to Forbes.

    Mark Teixeira and AJ Burnett made $250 and $275k, respectively.

    Cliff Lee is neither a household name, nor (as far as I’m aware) a dynamic personality and he’d be joining a team already full of stars.

    I doubt he makes much more than Tex or AJ, if even.

  59. LGY October 11th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Speaking of Brooks Conrad.

    He is out of the lineup. Cox going with Glaus at 3rd.

  60. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Big al–

    I might suggest that the big picture is a long term view that includes a transition over the next few years to filling the rotation with internal prospects. It also includes considering Cashman’s stated goal of moving away from signing high priced FAs over 30 to pitch. It might also include remembering his plan to have three top starters, one ok fourth starter and using the 5th slot to promote from within.

    All of these formulate a good strategy that he has put together. While Lee is great, I don’t see a need to deviate from his strategy when we already have the talent in the pipeline.

  61. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Doreen -

    Careful now, you are being too logical for some folk.

  62. Tyler October 11th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    I totally forgot that Diory Hernandez of the Braves played the infield…. I was thinking the entire time that it was Gorkys Hernandez who was a fairly good prospect a few years back. I know he was traded a couple times but I think he’s a Brave now? I remember he was pretty fast…

  63. Yankee Trader October 11th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    LGY-

    Good point. Of course without Prado, Jones , Saito and now Wagner, no matter how awful Conrad has been, just maybe the Braves would have won Game 1 in extra innings and won yesterday 2-1. Cox is so loyal to his regulars that perhaps that is why he has won only one WS in all those post season appearances.

  64. DaSaint007 October 11th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    I don’t care who outpitched who. CC is the horse who carried us into the playoffs.

  65. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    “I think the Yankees need Lee. Elite pitchers don’t grow on trees. I’m not convinced Pettitte will be back, and if he is, I fully expect for him to miss some games next year with something, just because he’s aging and little things are more impactful as you get older if for no other reason than it takes longer to heal.”

    Pettitte missed 2 months this year, and the Yankees qualified for the postseason this year fairly easily.

    If they didn’t need him this year, why do they need him next?

    “It wasn’t hard for Damon or Matsui to leave the Yankees after winning a WS.”

    Their situations are not comparable to Lee’s.

    Win or lose, Texas might be willing to make him the centerpiece of the organization.

  66. Yankee Trader October 11th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Gorkys Hernandez is a Pirate, traded for Nate McLouth.

  67. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    BoJo -

    Using your logic, then why did Cashman offer Montero+ in an attempt to land Lee, if that was his plan, and he was sticking with it.

    Andy may or may not return. If he returns, it’s a 1 and done deal.

    Given his age, and the chance of injury to any SP, there will be room to move a prospect into the rotation next year, and another 1 or 2 the following year, either as a SP and/or RP.

    There are several needs Cashman may want to address, but, SP is where you build WS teams from, and go from that point on.

  68. m October 11th, 2010 at 5:32 pm

    I understand the need for Cliff Lee, but if I were the Yankees I would not go the Sabathia route of blowing other teams (yes, I think there will be more than 2 teams interested, haha) out of the water with a preemptive offer. Nor do I give Lee excessive years or money if the bidding gets out of hand.

    He’s great, fantastic. But I would set my limits on how badly we’d want him. Either he wants to come or not.

    As for the postseason rotation, I’d like to see Phil pitch more than once. I think he’s earned it, and I believe he can handle it.

    I don’t know why you would break CC’s back while minimizing Phil’s potential to contribute.

  69. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Stuckey, no way. In that case, I want CC pitching. However, they won’t know their record in the ALCS when they set up their rotation. I know CC is the ace, but I see no reason to push him 2x on short rest unless the Yankees don’t trust Phil (Andy will def. get 2 starts) to make 2 starts.

  70. Yankee Trader October 11th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    I think Josh Hamilton will be the centerpiece of the Rangers, signed to a long term extension.

  71. m October 11th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Watching this Kim Jones interview. Kerry Wood looks the youngest! And what a stupid question asking Joba when he’s going to pitch. Goodness.

  72. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    “I don’t know why you would break CC’s back while minimizing Phil’s potential to contribute.”

    I don’t know why you would assume pitching on 3 days rest is breaking CC’s back?

  73. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Blake, why Phil in game 3? IMO, it’s a no brainer that he pitches game 2 in Texas. If it’s Tampa, I don’t care where he pitches………….but I would still think it’d be Andy in game 3

  74. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    And presumably Lee would love pitching with his buddy? YS would be a fantastic stadium for him to pitch in.

  75. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    It is my firm belief Lee wants to become a Yankeee. If I’m correct, he may simply tell his agent how much he wants, and if the Yankees agree, sign the deal.

  76. Tyler October 11th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Yankee Trader-

    Ah thanks for that. I was really off then as that happened last season. Is Gorkys in the bigs?

  77. 108 stitches October 11th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Possibly Cliff Lee could do what Jeter and several other Yankees do. Make Florida his primary residence for the required 6 months and avoid a state income tax and a city tax. He can rent a nice place in NJ during the season.
    The 3 trips the Yankees make to play the Rays count as residency time as would 6 weeks of spring training.

  78. JM October 11th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    I also believe that Lee will wear the pinstripes next year. The Yankees need him, he wants to come here, and I think he will.

  79. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    I think they need Lee even if Andy comes back, but I’m not giving him 6 years or more than what CC got……………

  80. DaSaint007 October 11th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    I don’t see the Yankees giving Lee a CC-like contract to a 32 year old. Neither years nor money. I’m sure he’ll ask for 6 or 7 years, considering this is his FIRST Free Agent contract, but they’ll offer 4 or 5. He’ll demand (and deserve) more total dollars than AJ or Lackey, but won’t get as much as CC. My guess is he ends up with a contract – from somebody – for no more than 6 years and $120 million.

  81. m October 11th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Sorry, I may be wrong, but I think someone had CC 3x, Andy 2x, AJ 1x, Hughes 1x.

    I would go straight CC/Andy/Hughes/AJ and CC/ANDY/Hughes (if necessary :) )

    But I have supreme faith in Hughes that others might not. I think the team is good enough to play it straight up.

  82. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Stuckey, I don’t get why we would only want him to pitch once – the same amount as AJ. He just came off a completely dominating start. Unless there’s some reason not to trust Phil, then why not trust him and let CC have normal rest? Just because CC can do it on short rest does not mean he should – and having normal rest is preferrable.

  83. Bo knows October 11th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Skimming through the posts – someone suggested Gardner, Joba and Noesi for Kemp deal. I was intrigued and was in favor. then checked Kemp’s stats – Holy shnikees. Kemp is a lot of hype and not really good numbers, especially on defense. Because of YS LF configuration you need two CFs in the OF. So that deal would be way overpriced. We tend to underrate our players for the green, green out there. Considering the injured wrist and bad thumb plus CF defense, Gardner is extremely valuable in any trade talks excluding the low wages. I could see the above package for Bruce or Rasmus but that’s about it.

  84. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Having talent in the pipeline, prospects, whatever you want to call them, mean nothing, until they prove they can do it at the ML level.

    There have been a ton of prospects, that never played a day, or stuck at the MLB level.

    Eric Duncan, a first round pick, was a no miss player, that was heir apparent to Giambi. He never got out of AAA, and is no longer with the yankees.

  85. KPB October 11th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    Lee’s wife was picking out houses with CC’s wife when the deal fell through because of the Mariners. That shows how close the two are. Between close friendship, very good chance of making the PS each year, great money, and excellent club house I think he will be here. If the role was reversed and it was the Yankees that backed out of the deal, then I could see Lee not wanting to come to NY.

  86. Yankee Trader October 11th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    There certainly is a large fall-off of FA lefty starters after Lee-Ted Lilly, Bruce Chen, Doug Davis, Jorge De La Rosa, Erik Bedard.

  87. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    “Stuckey, no way. In that case, I want CC pitching. However, they won’t know their record in the ALCS when they set up their rotation. ”

    But that’s the dilemma.

    Pitchers have routines, you can’t have Sabathia pitch game 1, prepare to pitch game 5 and then switch gears if the Yankees go down 2-1.

    Yankees WILL play their 1st two games on the road. If the home team can secure a win at home and then have their respective aces for game 3, being down 2-1 is hardly a stretch of the imagination.

    Also understand if Hughes pitches game 3, he’ll be on 4 days rest for game 7 no matter what. To start, to relieve Sabathia early. That club will always be in the Yankees bag.

    If the Yankees score a lot in game 1 or 4, perhaps Sabathia has a stress-free start?

    There are a LOT of variables, but again, one contingency to prepare for is the possibility of being down 2-1 and Sabathia being unprepared to pitch.

    You said it yourself indirectly, you’re fine with Burnett pitching game if the Yanks are 2-1 or 3-0. That’s all 50% of the possibilities.

    You willing to gamble on Sabathia no being on routine for game 4 with only a 50/50 chance (at best) of having the series where you want it?

  88. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    KPB, that’s true……….I’m sure the Yankees will make Lee feel very wanted. I can see the Sox getting involved just to up the price for the Yankees.

  89. Yankee Trader October 11th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Tyler-

    Hernandez was at AAA-Altoona PA.

  90. LGY October 11th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    I love Hughes and have said since the beginning of the season he will be starting in the playoffs.

    However, CC is better than Hughes.

    To me it is as simple as that and I expect it will be the same for the Yankees following the exact blueprint they had for CC in 2009 that won them a WS.

  91. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Hughes was the best pitcher in the ALDS.

  92. BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Later folks.

  93. Joe from Long Island October 11th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    I’m making dinner now (GB, where are you?), so just a couple quick thoughts –

    1. 108 stitches – NYS has gotten real strict about collecting their pound of flesh from people who traverse state lines. They nailed Jeter a couple years ago, even though he claims FL as his primary residence.

    2. I remember two years ago, people on this site were saying the Yanks didn’t need CC, that he wasn’t worth the $$$, that if he didn’t want to come here, blah blah blah….And CC coming here has worked out pretty well, hasn’t it?

  94. KPB October 11th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    LGY October 11th, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    However, CC is better than Hughes.
    —————————-

    Are you trying to make a “case” for CC? :lol:

    Sorry, that was a callback on a joke, I mean report from Heyman.

  95. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    “Stuckey, I don’t get why we would only want him to pitch once – the same amount as AJ. He just came off a completely dominating start. Unless there’s some reason not to trust Phil, then why not trust him and let CC have normal rest?”

    Betsy, it’s not about Hughes, it’s about Burnett, and game 4. Hughes is simply caught in the wake.

    You’re convicted of giving Hughes 2 starts? Fine. I have NO problem with this in theory.

    The problem is it means Burnett, rather than Sabathia, potentially down 2-1 or 3-0.

    Heck, even at 2-1 Yankees, it means giving back homefield to their opponent if Burnett spits the bit.

    And as I said, whether or not Hughes or Pettitte pitch game 2 or 3, the game 3 starter will be on 4 days rest for game 7, to be used at full strength in whatever manner if necessary.

    “Just because CC can do it on short rest does not mean he should”

    Actually, i think that’s exactly what it means.

  96. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    BoJo -

    Using your logic, then why did Cashman offer Montero+ in an attempt to land Lee, if that was his plan, and he was sticking with it.

    +++++++++++++++
    Fair question. Let’s see if I can answer it.

    I may get this wrong given the time frame. But I suspect Cashman was concerned about his rotation and getting to the play-offs this year, and also disenchanted with Montero based on his slow start and early reports of poor work habits.

    AJ was struggling, Javy’s velocity fell off the table, and Andy may have just gotten hurt (can’t recall), and Phil had an innings limitation issue that the team had botched previously with Joba. Montero was also struggling and Adams was injured with his ankle problems.

    Thus, I suspect Cashman was dealing for this year, whethter or not Lee would resign (as I recall, he wasn’t demanding a window to sign him).

    Given the above, the trade was a typical mid-season pick-up only, not a long-term commitment.

  97. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    Stuckey, I don’t know why you’re assuming I want Phil in game 3? Because I don’t, esp. if it’s Texas. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make re: full rest or the Yankees scoring a lot.

    I really don’t get the issue period. Teams change their plans all the time. They will just tell CC to prepare as if he’s pitching game 4, like they did with Phil in that Boston start at home. He was told to prepare as if he was making the start (then, if he didn’t have to, he wouldn’t make it). When did I ever say that CC should be unprepared to pitch game 4 anyway?

    Overall, what is your point? The Yankees are the ones that named (or will name) AJ the #4 starter and clearly they realize there is a possibility that they would be down 2-1. They are the ones who decided to go with a 4 man rotation.

  98. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    I think CC really likes pitching on 3 days rest…his command is sharper. And he certainly is strong enough to do it.

  99. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Stuckey, how do you figure pitching Phil twice has anything to do with Burnett?

  100. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    Also, we’ll have to disagree about CC on 3 days rest.

  101. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:01 pm

    BIG AL October 11th, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Having talent in the pipeline, prospects, whatever you want to call them, mean nothing, until they prove they can do it at the ML level.

    There have been a ton of prospects, that never played a day, or stuck at the MLB level.

    Eric Duncan, a first round pick, was a no miss player, that was heir apparent to Giambi. He never got out of AAA, and is no longer with the yankees.
    ++++++++++++
    Another valid point, and given the track record of the prior player development group before Cashman took over in 2006, it would be a great point.

    But I think that Cashman really understands the importance of a commitment to player development as a competitive advantage. The Yankee draft approach has changed to select players with higher ceilings and more risk. The investment in foreign scouting and signings have also been stepped up.

    As a result, this is no longer the weak-butt minor league development system that put out such players as Duncan, CJ Henry, and others.

    Has it made a difference? Look at the players who have graduated and are at AAA. I think he would feel the talent and internal appraisement of their talent has improved to the point where he can make strategic decisions to use it over signing outside FAs. I don’t have a crystal ball or pipeline to reading his thoughts, but that is what I think makes sense from what I have reead from him over the past few years.

  102. m October 11th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    I also saw you guys talking about montero.

    I don’t feel comfortable with Jorge/Jesus catching all 162 games. If Jorge were a few years younger, then yeah, maybe.

    Is there a chance that we carry Cervelli AND Jesus?

    What is the estimate on how many games Jorge catches? I’d want him as a DH on the other games.

    So, that brings us to the DH on the days Jorge is catching. I know people have said Thames. He’s a reasonable choice who won’t likely cost much.

    People have said Damon. I would sign Damon back if he were a P/T DH/bench player and willing to accept pay commensurate with that role. Not sure how far away from 3000 hits he is, but I know he enjoyed his time with the Yankees.

  103. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    “Stuckey, how do you figure pitching Phil twice has anything to do with Burnett?”

    I don’t. Sabathia on 3 days rest has NOTHING to do with Hughes not pitching twice. It has to with not relying on Burnett in a swing game (and Torre was always mostly right, game 4 IS a swing game).

    “I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make re: full rest or the Yankees scoring a lot.”

    You’ve clearly become convinced pitching in 3 days rest is by default less than ideal for ANY pitcher. My point is, the Yankees could in game 1 or 4 in a walk, and Sabathia might have a relatively stress-free/low pitch count game.

    “I really don’t get the issue period. Teams change their plans all the time. They will just tell CC to prepare as if he’s pitching game 4, like they did with Phil in that Boston start at home. He was told to prepare as if he was making the start (then, if he didn’t have to, he wouldn’t make it). When did I ever say that CC should be unprepared to pitch game 4 anyway?”

    So let me get this straight, after game 1, you want Sabathia to prepare as if he’s pitching in 3 days rest, and DO so if the Yanks are down 2-1 or 3-0? But then adjust his routine to pitch game 5 IF the Yanks are up 2-1 or 3-0?

    “The Yankees are the ones that named (or will name) AJ the #4 starter and clearly they realize there is a possibility that they would be down 2-1. They are the ones who decided to go with a 4 man rotation.”

    They named him the 4th starter. The game 4 starter is another story altogether.

    I suspect this will be the rotation.

    1 CC
    2 Pettitte

    3 Hughes
    4 CC
    5 Burnett

    6 Pettitte
    7 CC (with Hughes on full rest behind him)

    But again, this has NOTHING to do with not wanting to start Hughes twice, it has EVERYTHING to do with Sabathia to pitch the swing game at home and a potential rubber game 7 on the road.
    Do I now understand you correctly?

  104. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    “Also, we’ll have to disagree about CC on 3 days rest.”

    What’s the context of our disagreement?

    His track record?

  105. SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    They weren’t acquiring Cliff Lee as a rental.

    They wouldn’t trade Jesus Montero for a rental.

    They were acquiring Lee for the long haul.

    They have a pretty good idea of where the numbers will fall for Lee. Just as they did with CC.

    They want him because they know he, CC, and Hughes at the top of the rotation is a killer rotation.

    It also gives them great flexibility regardless of what Andy wants to do.

    It’s especially important since their best pitching prospects are still more than one year away from NY.

    It’s why I believe the Yankees will do whatever it takes to get the guy.

  106. m October 11th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Wouldn’t Game 5 have more significance than Game 4?

  107. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    Just to be clear…I am not saying one way or another whether the Yankees will sign Lee. I am just saying that I don’t think it will be a slam dunk.

    There are commitments to an existing player development strategy.

    There are issues with Lee’s back. And his age.

    There are issues with how long a commitment they would have to make.

    There are cost of living differences that give Texas an opportunity to compete for him.

    There are Lee’s own words which have indicated he will play where the biggest payday happens. He was willing to sign for Philadelphia and Seattle, and just wants to get his well-deserved payday from FA as well as a chance to get into the play-offs.

    These are just issues that could affect where he signs…that’s all I am trying to point out.

  108. SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    If I was setting the rotation, I’d go: CC, Phil, Andy, AJ.

    This way, you have Andy lined up for a Game 7 and, if needed, you could use CC out of the pen in Game 7.

    AJ? Just handle him the way Torre handled Kenny Rogers in 1996.

    Keep him on a short leash and do what you can to get thru the game.

  109. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    SJ44–

    If they weren’t acquiring Lee for a rental, then why didn’t they insist on a window to sign him? As I recall, they didn’t push for that.

    As for giving up on Montero, yeah–they would have. They also offered Montero to KC for Soria, and apparently felt that he was a better bargaining chip than prospect AT THAT TIME.

  110. stuckey99 October 11th, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    “Wouldn’t Game 5 have more significance than Game 4?”

    There is a greater chance of being down 2-1 after game 3 than there is being down 3-1 after game 4.

    The goal is to avoid having to win 3 games in a row.

    Simple odds are work.

  111. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Stuckey, I said that just because you can pitch CC on 3 days rest doesn’t mean you should………….and you said that’s exactly what it means. I do not want to pitch CC on 3 days rest unless needed. I know that people assume he will never have any issues with this workload just because he’s a big guy, but I don’t agree with that. The Yankees have a lot invested in CC and I don’t like seeing him pitch on 3 days rest so often. When the Brewers did it, we killed them; now it’s ok?

  112. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    SJ, good points about Lee. I’m glad we don’t have to wait the 15 days after the end of the WS to get this thing started.

    I also agree: Phil in game 2.

  113. SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    The cost of living issues aren’t issues.

    He was willing to sign with the Phillies and the PA “Jock Tax” is the most oppressive in the country.

    He was never going to stay long term in Seattle. His wife hated Seattle.

    His back is fine. A muscular thing is not a back “injury”. Andy Pettitte has a worse back than Cliff Lee and he takes the ball.

    Pitchers learn to deal with the aches and pains that go with the gig.

    The existing player development plan? Also has nothing to do with it.

    Their player development plan is the same as it was a few months ago when they were ready to trade their best prospect for him.

    It’s not something to overthink.

    He’s the #1, #,2, and #3 priority for the Yankees this off-season for a myriad of reasons.

    That’s why he has been such a priority for them.

  114. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Betsy–

    I hear you about your concerns for CC pitching on 3 days rest…and have a question.

    How many starts in a row do you realistically think that would require?

    In my mind, I don’t see the ALCS going 7 games, so it would be 1 start there.

    In the WS, he would be fully rested for game 1, and only start on 3 days rest for games 4 and 7 (if needed).

    I think asking this powerful pitcher to start 2 or 3 games on 3 days rest at this stage of the season is okay, especially since it gives him a game 4 against the opponents #4 pitcher–giving the team a chance to pull ahead.

    Your concerns about his log-term health are certainly justified and important, but I think he has shown he has the strengtha nd actually likes going on 3 days at this time of year (cooler out)

  115. SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    They never offered Montero for Soria.

    They didn’t need a window to sign him.

    They would have signed him in the off-season.

    They can’t sign the guy in-season to a long term deal when they wouldn’t do the same with Jeter, Mo and Girardi.

    The Yankees do their signings before the season starts or, in the case of impending free agents, in the off-season.

    They never do it in season for anybody.

  116. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    Bojo, we don’t know how long the ALCS would go. IMO, you assume it’s going 7. CC pitching twice on short rest in the ALCS and then however many times (2?) in the WS is not optimal. People have already forgotten that CC was not at his best in the WS due to his heavy workload and all those games on short rest.

  117. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    SJ44–

    I do think the cost of living is an issue. His accountants will compare the offers and set them to equivalent values. Then, they will pick the best.

    If it is not an issue, you are saying he will be willing to take less money from the Yankees if they don’t make up the difference. I don’t think that is what you mean.

    When he first arrived in Seattle, he wsa very open to negotiating. he was looking for security in case of injury, and I think he would have welcomed a Halladay-type deal. Of course, we’ll never know if that was just talk or if he would have signed.

    You may be right about his back…I think he has been a little brittle the past few years, but I trust the Yankees to determine if there is a health risk or not.

    And again I respectfully disagree about the importance of the player development. If they plan to introduce one new young pitcher a year into the rotation, it may affect who they sign.

    As for Montero, go back and look at the reports in early July. there were reports that he wasn’t a hard worker, and it looked like he wouldn’t make it as catcher. They were willing to move him then.

    Again, I am not saying what will happen. I don’t have a crystal ball. I am just pointing out that things could go differently than what everyone thinks will happen. It doesn’t look like a slam dunk to me.

  118. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:27 pm

    Betsy–

    I admit I don’t recall last year’s performance and will look up how well CC did. You may have a very good point.

  119. m October 11th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Cliff Lee as a Yankee is far from a slam dunk. It won’t be easy. Or cheap.

  120. Betsy October 11th, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Bojo, he was fine in game 1 – but clearly he had to battle; he wasn’t dominant. In his next start, same thing I think. It might have been game 4……..I just think the Yankees need to be careful with him.

  121. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    SJ44–

    You’re typing too fast for me to keep up!

    I seem to recall very well that Cashman was willing to move Montero for Soria. But KC wouldn’t do the deal. What do you know about that?

    Saying they didn’t need a window and that they would have signed him in the off-season may be true, but it still means that they only held his rights for the season, and not beyond. That makes it a short-term deal by definition….regardless of how they work their contracts.

    In other words, the risk was there that he might not like NY and walk at the end of the year. No one can control that.

    As such, I still believe that Cashman looked at it as a short-term deal–albeit one that could lead to a longer term relationship–BUT THAT WAS NOT GUARANTEED.

  122. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    I have to go walk my dogs…I’ll try to reply to anything later if there is any interest in continuing the conversations.

  123. Cashmoney October 11th, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    I believe there is 90 percent chance of Lee coming to NY if all things remain status quo.
    I believe the Yanks will match any dollars and years for his service. I believe that they want him badly. I doubt cashman would ever trade Montero without firmly committing to the idea of signing Lee to a long deal.

    Bojo, at the time of trade, the Yankees potential the staff were in excellent shape they had just came off the Oakland series with flying color. If you remember they would talks about Lee walking across dug out starting against seattle in that series. Yet Cash still want Lee that should tell you something what they think of Lee.

  124. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    Thank you Betsy…I don’t recall but you have my interest piqued, so I’ll look it up after my walk….Have a nice evening.

  125. Cashmoney October 11th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    There were never any substantive evidences of Yanks trading Montero for Soria, it was just media heresay at best.

  126. AldotheApache October 11th, 2010 at 6:35 pm

    If they’re going with 2 starts each for CC, Andy, and Hughes (like they should, imo), then I definitely want to see Andy set up for Game 7. Which means CC, Phil, Andy, and AJ, in that order.

  127. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    My dogs are abrking, but you guys keep pulling me back with good comments.

    Cash–

    “Yankees management looked at its rotation and had some pause. CC Sabathia again was an ace and Andy Pettitte is pitching as well now as ever. But A.J. Burnett and Javier Vazquez are not fully trustworthy, especially for the playoffs, and Phil Hughes has an innings limit of about 175, and might not be available to start late in the season.”

    Quote from NY Post– http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....Vdd02uuU1I

  128. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

    http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....-for-soria

  129. Cashmoney October 11th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    Bojo, you answer you own question. When a team’s M.O is win the W.S every year.The addition of lee fortifies that goal on a short term and long term basis. Is there any reasons you should doubt Cashman and the Yanks lust after lee , and still is , in wanting him to be a long term addition to that objective.

  130. Cashmoney October 11th, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Bojo, I believe the overwhelming opinions among the media at the time were lee was a luxury due to the general good state of Yankees starting pitching at the time.

    Yet Cashman still pull the trigger and offered the crown Jewel. They want lee and they want him badly.

  131. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 7:14 pm

    I think Betsy’s post of the NY POst article makes my point. More GMs are going to younger home grown pithcers, than committing long term deals to veterans.

    Cash–

    Again I think Cashman was seeking the short-term fix to win this year. Whether or not Lee could be re-signed was a risk he was willing to take. I think the inclusion of Montero just meant that at the time, there were many questions about Montero, and Cashman was willing to move him.

    As far as Cashman still lsuting after Lee, I never said he did or didn’t. Again, I am just pointing out other issues that may affect the final outcome. I don’t see it as a slam dunk.

  132. SJ44 October 11th, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    That’s just not true. He wasn’t thinking short term with the Lee trade at all. It’s not how he thinks.

    There were no questions about Montero. The Yankees always were confident about Montero, even when he was struggling.

    Cliff Lee is a short and long term solution for the Yankees and that’s why they will sign him.

  133. BoJo October 11th, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    SJ44–

    He might have been thinking longer term, but without locking up Lee at the time of the deal, it was a short-term deal. There was no guarantee Lee would re-sign with the Yankees.

    Everything else you say about Cashman’s intent or thought process–I can’t refute with 100% certainty either way…I don’t know him or can’t read his mind. Unless you are Brian Cashman or Gene Michael or one of his inner circle, I am not sure how you can say anything is 100% certain either.

    IF you were one of his inner circle, I doubt that you would be allowed to post his thought process on a public blog. The Yankees are pretty careful about leaks from what I understand

    So, faced with just what transpired as a real event, I can only conclude that Cashman may have had interest in signing Lee long term, but was willing to view it as a short-term deal since he didn’t get a window to sign him.

    As for how they felt about Montero, they may have liked him, but still view him as a DH. As a DH, they were willing to trade him to the Jays for Halladay, to the Ms for Lee, and from reports, to the Royals for Soria. That is what was reported, and all I can go by.

    As far as Cashman still wanting Lee and why they will sign him, I am not saying they won’t…I am just saying there are a lot of other issues which might come up and not make it a slam dunk.

    I think this topic is beat to death. I am not trying to make it a thesis for a graduate degree, so if you disagree, fine. Feel free to make your point, but if you don’t mind, I am just going to let it go.

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