Next stop, Dallas
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 12, 2010 
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Cliff Lee was absolutely dominant tonight: Nine innings, 11 strikeouts and the knockout win in St. Pete.
The Rangers have advanced and the Yankees next stop is Texas, where the ALCS will open with CC Sabathia against C.J. Wilson.
“Guys just want to know where we’re going,” Curtis Granderson said today.
Now they know. Next stop, Dallas.
2 Days, 20 Hours, and 47 Minutes until Game 1 of the ALCS
You got it, Erica.
…and about 3 days ’til Yanks are 1-0.
over/under on first complaint about the Yankees being stale after the 5 day layoff:
5 minutes…
Dallas baby ! Home of the antlers and paws … wait a min!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXWqbzr9f6Q
Erica, your accounting skills really come in handy on this blog…
Bring it on!
Jon Daniels is perhaps the most under rated GM in the game. He made a couple of trades early that turned out poorly but his overall body of work with the Rangers has been terrific, particularly building up their minor league system.
Nolan Ryan now really overshadows Daniels but it was Daniels who assembled that team.
It’s going to be a good series. It’ll be a lot of fun. The Rangers are a very good team. Better than any of the post season teams the 2009 yankees had to face.
That said – the Yankees are the better team. They are deeper and have a more diverse talent base.
They’re wearing googles for a ginger ale celebration?
I’m very anti-goggle and this is just taking it too far.
Just say no to goggles!
game 1: Yanks 7-2
MG, I already complained about that earlier, lol – no wait, it was more like worry. I have to worry about something!
On Montero/Lee, I was up at 5 am when the Sherman story broke, so I was very into getting Lee. Now that I look back on it, no – regardless of what happens, I’m glad we still have Montero.
Cliff Lee:
+ 1 year and $25 million for tonight.
The guy didn’t have a big series, and he obviously has injury issues, but man, Josh Hamilton was there for the taking just 3 years ago to a lot of ML teams.
And I’ve heard their explanation, but the Phillies letting Lee go is still inexplicable.
Oswalt is fine and nice, but they could have Halladay and Lee.
If Philly doesn’t win, MLB should fine them for stupidity.
The second most overrated thing (besides the Rays; 1998 Yankees? C’mon.) in baseball has to be home field advantage.
If you pitch well, and play well, you tend to win, regardless of geography.
MG October 12th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
Erica, your accounting skills really come in handy on this blog…
*********
I aim to please!
Ginger ale……yum!
Phil in game 2 – he loves TX heat.
Uhhhhh, looks like sparkling wine to me…
It’s a fine line between aggressive and reckless and the Rangers straddled it tonight.
“If Philly doesn’t win, MLB should fine them for stupidity.”
How about as punishment a second beat down from the Yankees.
Yankees have a 9 game playoff winning streak against Texas. Worked well against Minnesota.
Good night Yankee people!
Joe, HFA just doesn’t exist as a separate character as it does in the NBA or the NFL. Those sports thrive on emotion – not baseball. The pitcher is in complete control of the game; the crowds just don’t affect whether he buries a slider in the dirt or hangs a curve. They don’t affect whether a hitter grounds into a DP or hits it out of the park.
Yankees over the Rangers in 5 or 6, you heard it here first…
Congratulations to Rangers on thier first playoff series victory in their history.
I was rooting for Rangers to win as Yanks match up better with them.
The LCS should end in less than 7 games, in which case Yanks will face Lee only once.
Even in that game I do expect Yanks to win as they are not free swingers.
It will be a very good series to watch.
Also, I expect Giants to win against Phillies.
Yanks-Giants will be a dream match up for the TV and MLB.
Yankees in 6
Phillies in 6
Schilling likes the Rangers and hopes they win. He actually just said that. What an absolute TOOL
“The second most overrated thing (besides the Rays; 1998 Yankees? C’mon.) in baseball has to be home field advantage. ”
Joe-
I agree. The pitcher’s execution and performance in any one game swamps most of any advantage that home field provides.
On the whole home field advantage offers around a 5% increased probability of winning a game. It’s a decent sized advantage but is easily dissolved away if the visiting pitcher executes.
Also, I’m doing well – thanks for asking. Hope you and the family are doing well.
I would love to see a Yankees/Phils WS……………but if we beat Texas, I don’t care who we play.
“The pitcher is in complete control of the game; the crowds just don’t affect whether he buries a slider in the dirt or hangs a curve. They don’t affect whether a hitter grounds into a DP or hits it out of the park.”
As someone who was there when David Justice took Arthur Rhodes deep to seal a series, I can’t agree with you completely.
Rhodes was rattled and the entire ballpark knew exactly where the 3-1 pitch was going to wind before before it was even thrown.
CB – I’ll second that about Daniels. I had my doubts about him early on, being so young (28) when he took the job. But, I think he is more responsible than Ryan for turning that team around. His work with the minor league system, and trades (got more for Tex than the highly regarded talent evaluating Atlanta Braves) is reflected this season, and tonight. And I’m not even talking about acquiring Lee for Smoak.
Compare Jon Daniels’ resume with that of Theo. It’s no contest. If the Rangers were an East Coast team, Daniels would be talked about much, much more.
UnKnown is also Ruby.
Ruby – go make Oscar a steak.
The Yankees should have a pitching advantage in both of the first two games and all they need is a split in Texas and HFA goes back to them. Then they’ll have Lee at the Stadium against Pettite or Hughes, and they could win that game as well.
Betsy wrote: Now that I look back on it, no – regardless of what happens, I’m glad we still have Montero.
————
Getting Lee would have been as close to a World Series guarantee as you’d get. I have to say – never having seen Montero play – that conventional wisdom says you almost ALWAYS give up any prospect for a player of Lee’s caliber. I don’t think there is a person in Boston who would take back the Hanley Ramirez trade because it gave them a World Series. There are waaaay too many things that can go wrong with a great prospect to not pull the trigger on a proven commodity. Ask the Washington Nationals.
The Phillies could have kept Lee AND traded for Oswalt.
Instead they decided to invest $28 million in Joe Blanton.
Imagine Halladay-Lee-Oswalt-Hamels.
The Rangers pitching without Lee is nothing special. We can thank the Rays for getting this to a game 5 so now Lee only pitches one game in the series. The Yanks offense should be able to do damage against Wilson, Lewis and Hunter. Obviously they have to pitch well but the Yanks have much better pitching.
Plenty of people will pick the Rangers; Schilling hates the Yankees……….no big deal.
I think it was Clemens who said this (could be wrong), but I remember one Yankee saying that he loved playing on the road because he loved it when the home crowd (road) got deathly quiet.
The Yankees just don’t get intimidated on the road; it’s no big deal to them.
Bx is Burning is the Ketchup Schilling used on 04
A-Rod should hit pretty well in his old park.
Blake, Phil or Andy in game 2?
Stuckey, that’s one time. In general, I think my comment holds up……..
UnKnown October 12th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Bx is Burning is the Ketchup Schilling used on 04
———————————————
There ya go, girlfriend. Reveal yourself.
Congratulations to the Rangers.
(I’ve been watching the miner rescue.)
Joe from LI -
I agree 100% about HFA, and have been vocal in my belief that its importance is overstated.
Cliff Lee sure is something else, isn’t he?
As I said earlier, I had no preference, but I’m kinda glad there won’t be any cowbells. Does anyone know what the rally thing is for the Rangers? (Braves fans had tomahawks, for instance)
I knew that getting Lee from Seattle would have virtually guaranteed a return to the World Series and a likely World Championship, they only thing that got in the way was the Seattle GM’s stupidity. I would still have made the trade but you can’t change history, hopefully the Yankees will get #28 this year and have both Lee and Montero going forward.
Arod will dominate his former team. I love doing so.
David Wells is calling Lee “Picasso”
Sounds funny.
Betsy,
For me, probably Hughes because it sets up Game 7 to either be pitched by Pettite or Sabathia on short rest and it also gives you a Pettite/Lee matchup in Game 3. I think thats the way to go but we’ll see.
I’m thrilled that the Yankees didn’t trade for Lee, and I look forward to facing him the ALCS.
Curt Schilling’s nickname is Curt the Jerk!
Girardi doesn’t like change so he may go with Andy in game 2. Hughes has pitched well in Texas but either way if fine for me, both guys are capable of beating Texas with Lee on the mound in game 3.
Repost:
“Lee was always going to get a ton of $$. I read he’s expecting CC $$ or beyond – I don’t know if I can do that.”
——————————————————————–
Hate to break it to some of you, it ain’t your money, you don’t have to do anything, you will not be signing Lee’s checks, only the Yankees need to be concerned as to how much money, and how many years, not the fans.
Last I heard Cashman was still the GM.
Lee will get CC money, if not more.
I still hope the Yankees go CC-Andy-Phil-CC-AJ-Andy-CC.
I understand if they play it straight up with a 4 man rotation, but it is not what I would do.
Once New York pounds Lee in Game 3 Cashman will be able to talk him down a few million to sign with New York. Selling point would be that the team Lee is on hasn’t beaten us in 2 years and he is forced to join us to win it all. Love it.
Yeah, for the most part.
That was just a particularly cool moment.
There have been bigger moments than that during late 90′s/early 2000′s, and I was at almost all the dynasty ALDS and ALCS games, but that one stands out to me as being special.
As I say, when Rhodes missed with the 2-1 pitch, the entire park wasn’t hoping for an upper deck job, it was waiting for it. Everyone was grabbing each other’s arms, saying “here it comes”… and it came
The issue with Lee’s contract is the # of years, given his age.
“I still hope the Yankees go CC-Andy-Phil-CC-AJ-Andy-CC.”
Seconded.
Even though I’m glad we have Montero, if I’m Cash, I never deal with the M’s again.
Lee sure looked tough tonite, no walks again, wow ! I was a bit worried after the final out when his teammates mobbed him. I thought don’t pile on him and damage him before his free agency. (coming to the Yanks) Hopefully we will only face him once before he becomes a teammate. He will sure look good in the pinstripes.
Why is there so much animosity be expressed towards people expressing concerns about signing Lee or the years + money invested?
There is certainly room here for disagreement on this topic.
If they sign Lee, how much money they invest, and for how long definitely has an effect on the fans.
Sometimes the best trade is the one not made, MG. I would have swallowed hard, but made that deal (Montero for Lee) also. If the Yanks can get it done and win the WS, it will be an example of getting your cake and eating it, too (interesting saying, no?).
This may rank up there with not trading Hughes for Santana.
And, on that note, good night all. Got to get up early.
Let’s go Yankees.
LGY,
I still think thats what they’ll do unless they are up 3-0 going in to game 4.
Were going to hit Wilson hard bank it.
CC first outstanding start of the psot season.
Yanks take it 9-1
I truly believe that the Yankees preferred the Twins over HFA this year.
And while I agree HFA is over rated, I also agree with Stuckey. There are those moments (often critical) when HFA evolves into mystique and aura.
Later …..
This is going to be a hell of an ALCS.
I would not pitch CC on 3 days rest twice. If they go that route, ok – I understand – but I wouldn’t. Chad had indicated earlier that the Yanks were leaning against. If they trust Phil, then let him pitch 2x. It will work out better for CC if they get to the WS. By the time we got there last year, he was on fumes (for him, anyway)
Oh, look – the spastic Ruby is going wild as Oscar and UnKnown.
Skipped the Ritalin, sweetheart?
Well technically the Yankees did make the trade; the M’s pulled out – nothing we can do.
UnKnown
October 12th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Good thought except if he has a bad game # 3 it won’t matter. He is still going to get a BIG PILE of dough.
Lee is only going to be seen twice. At the most. Who knows does it get to a game 7. If not only once he’ll pitch.
anyone here Curt Shilling? he could at least try to be professional quote: “I think Texas will win, I want Texas to win” when talking about the ALCS
Bx is Burning
October 12th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Oh, look – the spastic Ruby is going wild as Oscar and UnKnown.
Skipped the Ritalin, sweetheart?
=============
Ruby can only wish he was me ! Ha ! Ha !
Joe from Long Island October 12th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
The second most overrated thing (besides the Rays; 1998 Yankees? C’mon.) in baseball has to be home field advantage.
If you pitch well, and play well, you tend to win, regardless of geography.
—————————————-
Texas wins their first post season series ever, and they STILL have never won a home game in the post season.
This one is semi-officially dubbed The Home Field Disadvantage Series.
Betsy,
I am not sure why you keep saying CC was tired or struggled when the Yankees got to the WS.
In Game 1, CC went 7 innings, gave up 2 runs, and threw 113 pitches.
“I would not pitch CC on 3 days rest twice.”
Gonna ask again. Not pitch CC on 3 days rest not matter what?
Or not pitch him on 3 days rest ONLY if the series is in the Yankees favor by game 4?
“It will work out better for CC if they get to the WS. By the time we got there last year, he was on fumes (for him, anyway)
If 2 earned in 7 and 3 earned in 6.2 is fumes (for him), then I’ll take fumes.
Betsy,
You would only throw CC twice on 3 days if it went 7….if CC goes in game 4 then you’re looking to finish it early by putting him up against the Rangers #4.
Trevor
October 12th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
Lee is only going to be seen twice. At the most. Who knows does it get to a game 7. If not only once he’ll pitch.
=============
How right you are, twice. Once in the ALCS and the second time when he is cleaning out his locker in Texas to head out the door to free agency. (The Bronx)
No surprise who is left standing is there? Any questions why they get paid what they do?
CC Sabathia – Cliff Lee – Tim Lincecum – Roy Halladay
Ruby can only wish he was me ! Ha ! Ha !
———————————–
You mean ‘she,’ dont’cha?
If doc loses the first game, hmmmm
Oscar very True. And he will be worth every penny. Going to be a long season again for Sux lovers. Bx is Burning might as well take up watching Nascar or something. Nothing postive for him to see by watching baseball next year.
I’m rooting for a San Francisco-New York World Series, hate all Philly teams
“Hate to break it to some of you, it ain’t your money, you don’t have to do anything, you will not be signing Lee’s checks, only the Yankees need to be concerned as to how much money, and how many years, not the fans.
Last I heard Cashman was still the GM.”
Actually, it is from a collective perspective. The Yankees’ money isn’t generated spontaneously. It comes from ticket prices, cable fees, licensing fees, etc.
If the fans collectively decided that they aren’t buying, the Yankees wouldn’t have much money to spend.
Of course, that won’t happen, but it negates your point.
LGY, CC is a great battler, but just because he ended up with good stats doesn’t mean he was sharp. IMO, he was tired at the end of the season; he wasn’t as sharp against Philly as he’d been against the Angels.
119 pitches for Lee.
Highest of the season. Hopefully that has a negative effect on him.
________
Nah. He went 112+ eleven times. He’ll be fine.
6-0 in seven post season starts with THREE complete games, a subTWO era, a subONE whip and SEVEN+ k/bb ratio
And, oh by the way, he beat the strikeout record for an ALDS (Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina both had 16 in 95 and 97, respectively). Lee had 21.
Cliff. is. a. stud.
I really hope he goes to a National League team
Blake, that’s true.
Stuckey, I said – “for him”.
Oscar and UnKnown talk to each other. Hilarious.
What’s Felix doing? Making greeting cards for Horst Buchholz?
Can I say how excited I am that the Rays lost? I hate them sooo much. I’m glad Cliff Lee showed them who their daddy is, even though we will still have to face him. No more Rays in the paper, on the news and on my Facebook. I’m going to have an extremely fulfilling winter without them.
As an aside, I Love that David Price, he pulled some bad fielding/defense but it can happen to anyone. I mean, AJ “cy young” Burnett even let a run get by him on a play at first.
I’m going to drink some good wine tonight.
Bx, You mean ’she,’ dont’cha?
——–
I trust your judgement, you would know better than I.
Betsy,
Fair enough. I thought CC looked fine in the WS last year, but he did walk 3 in each game so he could have been tired for him.
“Lee improved to 6-0 with a 1.44 ERA and three complete games in seven career postseason starts, striking out 54 and walking six in 56 1-3 innings.” -MSNBC
Stud muffin.
Bx is Burning picking out posters to annoy. Just typical of a Sux fan with nothing else to occupy his time with. Well you know seeing how their season was over at the end of August and all.
“Nah. He went 112+ eleven times. He’ll be fine.”
————————-
Hey man. Can’t get down on me for wishful thinking. Even a horse like CC has looked tired at times after a long outing like Lee had today.
Unknown, every single penny, nickle, dime and quarter and then some.
TBH in regard to CC on 3 days, I would have seriously considered throwing CC, Andy, and Phil on short rest in the ALCS and avoided AJ all together.
On that note, goodnight.
Hey you guys I’m busy now cleaning and ironing. No time for greeting cards.
For all lauding Lee, he is currently the enemy.
Im not sure how anyone can state that the 2010 Rangers are better than the 2009 Phillies? Id genuinely like to know.
Night, LGY!
Phil won’t go on short rest- and even though he said he could go, the Yankees won’t do it. I think that would be a mistake.
Right on, Schizo Ruby!
I’m a Sox fan. Just like you and your million aliases.
Right, UnKnown?
Right, Oscar?
Right, Felix?
Right, Ruby?
Hughes in game 2 in Texas where he said he likes to pitch, Andy in YS for game 3 against Lee?
Or Hughes against Lee?
Hmmm…
Not a chance.
Lee is beyond sick. Talk about good mechanics and repetition of motion. He wrote the book.
“Cliff. is. a. stud.”
It’s a shame that the loser GM Jack Z traded him away for nothing – to help out a division rival.
I would like Hughes for game 2. 15ip 0er 3h. All in Arlington.
Ruby, where’s Gay Yankee Fan at the moment?
Cleaning Felix’s carpet?
“Cleaning Felix’s carpet?”
That’s a hilarious line. Im going to steal it.
Jack Z ought to be cleaning Jon Daniels’ carpet. Or Daniels’ toilet. Take your pick
West Coast Yankee Fan
October 13th, 2010 at 12:07 am
Lee is beyond sick.
———–
Is he really sick ? Does he need some medicine ? You want me to make a run to the pharmacy ?
http://members.cox.net/lsdorga.....SERIES.pdf
Feel free to check my math.
CR – with my blessings.
I’ve had it with Ruby a/k/a Pope Fool the 1st.
Trisha – You got the only 3 points that mattered
Good idea Unger. While you’re there chug a couple of bottles of isopropyl alcohol and don’t call me in the morning.
Bx is Burning – Dont let it get to you. Our New York Yankees are the greatest organization in the history of the world. Nothing anyone says will ever change that fact.
From RAB:
“There have now been seven games in playoff history where a pitcher has gone at least seven innings with ten or more strikeouts and zero walks, and Lee’s done it four times.”
I would go:
Game 1 CC vs. Wilson
Game 2 Hughes vs. Lewis/Hunter (Hughes has great numbers in TX)
Game 3 Pettitte vs. Lee (Pettitte benefits from YS and has veteran poise to go toe to toe with Lee. When the margin for error shrinks as it will when Lee puts up a bunch of 0′s against the Yankees, Hughes could become too predictable if he takes the safe route and leans too heavily on whatever pitch he’s commanding best at the time. If he’s in a tight game where the offense struggles, I fear Hughes will fall into bad habits if he has to be too perfect.
Game 4 Burnett vs. Lewis/Hunter (lean on the offense and be ready with Moseley, Mitre or Nova in the pen. Real short hook for Burnett here).
Game 5 CC vs. Wilson
Game 6 Hughes vs. Lewis/Hunter
Game 7 Pettitte vs. Lee
WCYF,
Wow, that was mean. Whats up with that ?
“it’s a shame that the loser GM Jack Z traded him away for nothing – to help out a division rival.”
_________
Little too early to say “for nothing”…
)
We’ll see what comes of Smoak et al (who the M’s essentially got for an injured Mark Lowe and 3 minor leaguers) in the next couple of years (fans of teams other than the Yanks have to show patience
Sure, I would have LOVED for the M’s to have been able to keep Lee (he was a JOY to watch) but it wouldn’t have made a difference in the abysmal 2010 season.
“Trisha – You got the only 3 points that mattered ”
I have never bet on the Yanks for money. Ever. Will never do it either. The overall winner gets $100.
I agree with Bret. Play it straight up. I like Hughes pitching the second game in Arlington. Day game, no?
Jack Z probably thinks the Yanks will sign Lee anyway.
I think CC lines up for Gm 1, 4 and 7. They say they don’t want him going on 3 days rest twice in the series….but he won’t. The Yanks will win in 5 or 6, therefore lining up CC’s next start to be Gm1 of the World Series.
CC
Andy
Hughes
CC
AJ
Andy
CC
“WCYF,
Wow, that was mean. Whats up with that ?”
When the troll is feeling his oats, he gets nasty.
WCSF (s stands for Sux) is a troll from another site where he called himself redfiish among other things. That’s probably for Red Sux. Unfortuntely posters here apparently desperate for conversation indulge his pretend Yankee fandom.
His favorite word is sycophant.
His favorite question is IS THAT CLEAR?
Unless you’re totally bored, just skip his phony posts.
“6-0 in seven post season starts with THREE complete games, a subTWO era, a subONE whip and SEVEN+ k/bb ratio
And, oh by the way, he beat the strikeout record for an ALDS (Randy Johnson and Mike Mussina both had 16 in 95 and 97, respectively). Lee had 21.
Cliff. is. a. stud.”
Rosy –
In reality, it is indeed to early to judge a player like Smoak.
But look at what you posted above about Lee. The haul that Jack Z.ero should have gotten for Lee is much more than he got. To recap, Z got Lee for nothing, then he got rid of Lee for nothing. He wasted a valuable asset on Smoak. All because he was infatuated with the bum from being around him much of his early career.
I’d rather see Hughes twice against their 3/4 starter in Texas and CC twice against Wilson than see Phil once against Lee and CC 3 times with 2 of those starts on short rest.
I don’t think CC over Phil for 1 start is worth taxing CC’s arm.
edit: I’d rather see Hughes twice against their 3/4 starter in Texas and CC twice on full rest against Wilson than see Phil once against Lee and CC 3 times with 2 of those starts on short rest.
I don’t think CC over Phil for 1 start is worth taxing CC’s arm and I think Phil is more than capable of beating their 3/4 starter twice if need be especially since the offense could stake him out to an early lead.
I can’t say the “s” word, but I always feel good about the Yankees chances. Go, Yankees.
Ive never heard the word or read the word sycophant as many times as Ive seen it on here the past week!!
Im not even sure what it’s exact meaning is. Would Peter Gammons constitute a sycophant?
I just don’t buy that the Yankees will throw AJ in game four if they go down 2-1. Not one bit. Especially since doing it would then effectively take CC out of the equation for a game seven.
OMG! OMG! OMG! I love it! That’s my new word!
Peter Gammons is a sycophant.
fawning parasite, flunky, lackey, arse-kisser, brown noser
Parasite and the rest of the synonyms constitutes the perfect description of Peter Gammons!!
I read earlier today where Cashman was quoted as saying their rotation would NOT consider who would be lined up for a possible Game 7, if it comes to that. I hope that’s not true.
CC / Phil / Andy / AJ would line up Pettite for the 7th game, if necessary. I like that notion. It also pits Andy against Lee, in the first game at the Stadium.
Hopefully it doesn’t come to a 7th Game.
Yankees in 5.
More errors tonight. I hope the Yankees continue to play sharp baseball.
Does anybody know … is it true that Lee nixed the idea of a start on 3 days rest in last year’s World Series with the Phillies. I read that somewhere today … it’s the first time I hear that.
CR ~
Essentially, the M’s got Smoak+ for very little to nothing. It may work out, it may not. When you are the GM trying to turn around a demoralized and debilitated franchise, you have to take some risks. Jack took a chance that the M’s would have just enough offense in 2010 that Lee would make a difference – they didn’t, so he didn’t and Jack got some minor leaguers that may help the M’s future for half a season of Lee.
I hope Cliff goes to the NL but, if not, I wouldn’t mind seeing him stay with the Rangers…
Time for the ALW to start shedding the rep of “weak sisters”
Aldo – That never happened. Lee said he’d do whatever was necessary to help the team. Manuel didnt want to start Lee on 3 days rest because Lee hadnt done it before in his career iirc.
CR9 – West Coast Sux fan used the word to describe those posters here who were always optimistic about the Yanks and their chances. Just as he is rolling hoops to say as much as he can about Cliff Lee.
So you throw him in game 5, where you could be down 3-1?
Just line up your first 4, leave it TBA after that.
CompassRosy – It’s very simple. Jack Z should have tried to get as much as he could for his best asset, Lee. In the end, he got nothing.
I didnt realize it before, but apparently you are a Mariners fan, right? Let me get this straight: You want Cliff Lee to go to the NL, or you wouldnt mind Lee staying with a division rival of the Mariners, but you’re on a Yankees site and dont want Lee to go to the Yankees. Correct?
Night, straight shooters…
Night Trisha. Thanks for the explanation. LOL! Sleep tight, dont let the bostonian bed bugs bite!
Gammons is the Minister of Propaganda for Red Sox Nation (aka espn).
I love listening to him spew Theo Epstein’s party line … I really do! I get a genuine laugh at times.
One classic example – both of them (separate venues) talking about how J.DL. Drew is worth that 5years at $14 MM per that Theo gave him.
Drew’s 4 year RBI totals? 64, 64, 68, and 68.
Grandy matched that in a poor year (for him) at close to 1/3 the salary.
Night, Trish. Always good to see you here.
Someone mentioned that they thought Werth would end up with Boston. Could Nancy Drew play LF?
“I just don’t buy that the Yankees will throw AJ in game four if they go down 2-1. Not one bit. Especially since doing it would then effectively take CC out of the equation for a game seven.”
Me either.
Which means you must prepare him to pitch game 4 the second game 1 is over, which means the wheels are in motion and you don’t change a pitcher’s preparation ritual mid-stream.
You either announce he’s pitching game 4, and have him prepare for that, or you have him prepare for game 5 and commit to Burnett for game 4 NO MATTER what.
I’m fully expecting the former.
i also wouldn’t have traded Montero for Lee.
“It’s very simple. Jack Z should have tried to get as much as he could for his best asset, Lee. In the end, he got nothing.”
______
In the end, he got as much as he could get for a 1/2 a season of a pitcher. Again, we’ll check back in a couple of years to see how it worked out.
“Let me get this straight: You want Cliff Lee to go to the NL, or you wouldnt mind Lee staying with a division rival of the Mariners, but you’re on a Yankees site and dont want Lee to go to the Yankees. Correct?”
______
Correct.
Just ask my East Coast Sis, Trisha
m October 13th, 2010 at 1:13 am
Someone mentioned that they thought Werth would end up with Boston. Could Nancy Drew play LF?
————————————————
With those lightweight RBI totals to go with his heavyweight salary, he better play wherever they tell him!
Werth at Femway? If it happens (hoping not), he’ll hit 40.
I don’t remember what I said at the time, but I remember being kind of geeked about th possibility of having Lee. I don’t know Montero except by reputation, so I probably would’ve been okay with it. But I’m glad we didn’t make the trade because he’s free for the signing. Well not exactly free. So, no I would not want Cliff on the Yankees right here and now for Montero.
Rosy, I figured you were an M’s fan when I read your post. But why begrudge us getting Lee? It’s a perfect match, not to mention how bad the Yankees want him. Besides, which NL team can and will pony up the CC-type money he’ll be looking for?
CompassRosy – Yes, we’ll see in 4-5 years.
On wanting Lee to go to the NL or staying with the Rangers, with you being a Mariners fan:
That’s criminal. No real fan of a team would want a top starting pitcher like Lee to remain on a division foe.
That view is exactly what is wrong with the (sports) world. Fans would rather their own team – in this case, the Mariners – suffer than the Yankees rewarded.
Very, very saddening and disheartening. I only hope that you dont want Felix Hernandez to be traded to the Red Sox for the jock of Lars Anderson.
I would not have traded Montero for Lee
“That’s criminal. No real fan of a team would want a top starting pitcher like Lee to remain on a division foe.
That view is exactly what is wrong with the (sports) world. Fans would rather their own team – in this case, the Mariners – suffer than the Yankees rewarded.
Very, very saddening and disheartening. I only hope that you dont want Felix Hernandez to be traded to the Red Sox for the jock of Lars Anderson.”
_________
I see it differently. I don’t know that the M’s will “suffer” if Lee stays with Texas. The ALW, except for the Halos, in recent years has basically been considered garbage and I think quality competition will, in the long run, strengthen all the teams.
Oh, – I also forgot to mention the “intangibles” that Lee’s short stint with the M’s brought. The M’s young pitchers RAVED about Cliff and what a great example he set and how open he was about sharing his knowledge and experience. Something hard to quantify, but that could pay dividends.
As for Felix …
bite your tongue! He’s OUR baby
(BIG difference between a home-grown phenom and a pitcher we knew would be short term)
Trisha,
You are probably sound asleep, but you did a terrific job with the ALDS picks and points. Thanks so much
Good nite Oscar.
Good night Felix.
Use Burnett in Game 3 against Lee. If AJ is lights out, great, if mot Hughes for Game 4
Use Burnett in Game 3 against Lee. If AJ is lights out, great, if mot Hughes for Game 4
********************************************
I absolutely agree. “Sacrifice” AJ against Lee.
They won’t throw AJ in Game 3 because the game 3 pitcher lines up to pitch game 7….plus despite the fact that Lee will pitch in that game you still have to give yourself a chance to win and Pettite or Hughes gives you that. You can’t just punt games in a playoff series.
MTU,
You got your wish bud….let’s hope you were right
If Burnett pitches game 3 then he is on track to pitch game 7. Do you really want AJ Burnett to pitch game 7? The only way to have Burnett pitch game 3 and not game 7 is to go: CC, Pettite, Burnett, CC, Hughes, Pettite, CC. That would mean Sabathia on 3 days rest twice. I think the Yankees are much better off with a straight 4 man rotation of CC, Hughes, Pettite, Burnett, CC Hughes, Pettite.
If the Yankees go with a straight 4 man then:
Game 1: Sabathia/Wilson
Game 2: Hughes/Lewis
Game 3: Pettite/Lee
Game 4: Burnett/Hunter
Game 5: Sabathia/Wilson
Game 6: Hughes/Lewis
Game 7: Pettite/Lee
They could switch Pettite and Hughes but I don’t think I would. AJ is going to have to pitch one way or another…it just all depends on whether you want that added advantage of Sabathia vs Hunter in Game 4. It would be a risk because if you lose that game then you’re looking at a game 7 with Lee against CC on short rest…
I like the matchups in this series regardless of what they do.
Blake-
Yes. Maddon goes down in flames. Have to admit he was much more dignified in the post game news conference than I have ever seen him. Maybe the loss will do him some good.
Anyway, back to Us vs. Texas. Should be a great series with some fresh blood.
They’re not gonna be easy but I liked your matchups above.
It’s the same scenario for all the marbles. We need to pitch and hit.
Let’s get ‘er done.
Next time you are tempted to think that money doesn’t matter to the Yankees, think about AJ Burnett, and think again.
Blake-
And with respect to Lee. Wow. Is that guy nails or what.
He’s a machine. What a competitor. He has Yankee written all over him.
I see it differently. I don’t know that the M’s will “suffer” if Lee stays with Texas. The ALW, except for the Halos, in recent years has basically been considered garbage and I think quality competition will, in the long run, strengthen all the teams.
————————————
CompassRosy
As much as I dislike agreeing with CR9, your view is ridiculous. The AL West is the only division in baseball with only teams. Your Mariners have at the worst a 25% chance of making the playoffs every year simply by winning the division. Once you get into the playoffs, anything can happen in a short series….just ask the 06 Cardinals or the 03 Marlins.
I am not saying you should want Lee to go the Yankees b/c that is equally as absurd, but you SHOULD be hoping that Lee goes anywhere BUT to one of the teams in your division as that significantly reduces your chances of winning the division. As a fan of a team with a GM who favors measurable statistics over gut feelings, I would hope you would see your belief that quality competition will strengthen the Mariners has no basis in fact nor no evidence to support it unless you consider supplying the team with better draft picks a strategy. Better competition does nothing but make the intra-division games that much more strenuous and the road to the postseason exponentially more difficult.
AL West teams acquired the rep of “weak sisters” not because the teams from that division aren’t competitive, because they are, but instead because of that defeatist attitude and loser mentality the fans possess. It is that reason that fans of East Coast teams can come to West Coast stadiums and dominate the opposing fans in Anaheim, Oakland and Seattle, because while fans such as yourself hope for “quality competition” and wish for the best amongst your competitors, Yankee and Red Sox fans care only about winning.
Win, lose, or draw if I’m the Yankees I pull out all the stops to get Lee.
I’m quite sure they will.
I just hope he stays healthy. His stuff plays well for the long term, and he has the heart of a Lion.
I want him.
CC. You’re friend Cliff Lee is coming to town next year and I know you want to help facillitate that.
In that regard, make sure that the house next door stays available and is ready for immediate occupancy.
It’s time for you two to relive the glory days as Yankees.
MTU,
The Rays had their chance early in that game as Lee didn’t have his best location early….they let him off the hook and from about the 5th inning on he found his groove and yoj could almost tell the game was over unless Washingon took him out.
His command of all of his pitches is so good. That said…the Yankees could be getting close to that point where they have seen him enough times to start hitting him. They have gotten to him in the past and as good as he is it wouldn’t shock me at all for them to give him some problems at the stadium. Should be a very good series.
listening to xm on the way to work today, they have already decided that Lee will win 2 games…not to dismiss Lee at all, especially w/ his history, but he is not infallible.
and on espn, of course Schilling picked the Rangers to win. Kruk picked the Yankees and naturally, both picked the Phillies.
Blake-
Lee is free to lose against us. He can can become nearly unhittable
again next spring when he is wearing the pinstripes.
Want another ring ? Imagine CC, AP, and Lee in the same rotation.
The rest of baseball would just have to give it up.
They’re gonna do everything they can to prevent it but they won’t succeed.
I can dream can’t I ?
I can’t think about Lee right now…except as the enemy.
Kate-
It’s just fine if Lee wins 2 as long as we win 4.
MLB is probably happy its the Rangers. As good as the Rays have been this year for some reason it just doesn’t feel like big time baseball when they are playing to me. Maybe its their stadium or their uniforms but from a viewer stand point Yankees vs Texas seems much more appealing…more stars, outdoor stadium, bigger market.
“listening to xm on the way to work today, they have already decided that Lee will win 2 games”
So they must think the series is going 7 games?
Blake-
Someone said it earlier but can you imagine if Amaro the bizarro had enough sense to have kept Lee and gotten Doc ?
Thank goodness Amaro blew it.
Tom
yes, they do think the series is going 7. I, however, do not.
Let’s just hope that Texas proves to be just a good tuneup on the way to the Giants and 28.
Over at Baseball Prospectus (oh no advanced metrics!), writer Eric Seidman rated Boone Logan the top LOOGY in baseball in 2010 by a fairly substantial margin over the next closest relievers (J.C. Romero, Randy Choate and Pedro Feliciano). Great work by Cashman using a combination of scouting and metric to buy low on a guy who had put up ERAs of 8.31, 4.97, 5.95 and 5.19 in each season of his career.
Who’d have thunk that for 2010 Boone Logan ended up being easily the best part of the Vazquez/Logan for Vizcaino/Cabrera/Dunn deal…?
Likely if Lee pitches twice, it means the series has gone to a seventh game. So if Lee wins twice, the Yankees won’t be the team left standing…so we don’t want Lee to pitch twice.
Perhaps, though, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Lee is going to pitch game 2 on short rest? Texas hasn’t announced it’s intentions yet, right? I’d think they’d like to get Lee in there as early and as often as possible. I don’t think they’d want to chance NOT getting to a game 7.
I think the Yankees will have an advantage in every game in which they don’t start Burnett or face Lee. So I like the idea mentioned earlier of starting Burnett in Game 3 vs. Lee. That strategy would need to be paired with lining up CC for Games 1, 4, & 7. This would mean CC vs. Wilson, Pettitte vs. Lewis, CC vs. Hunter, Hughes vs. Wilson, and Pettitte vs. Lewis would be five of the first 6 games (excl. AJ/Lee). It seems pretty unlikely the series will go to a seventh game, but if it did then CC would face Lee. If there isn’t a game 7, CC would only make one start on short rest, which would follow two starts on extended rest. A more traditional alignment would give the Rangers a great shot to steal Games 3 & 4 in NY. Were that to happen, the Yankees would have to win all four games started by CC/Hughes in order to avoid facing Lee in Game 7 (without their own ace on the mound). This isn’t to say AJ can’t win or Lee can’t lose. Just that I can’t see Wilson/Lewis/Hunter winning 2 out of 5 games against our front three, which would have to be followed by Lee beating CC in Game 7. However, I can certainly see Lee beating Pettitte twice, A.J. imploding, and them stealing one of the other four games.
Reynolds and Millar decided last night Rangers can’t wait until game 3 and Lee will just have to go on short rest on Saturday.
MLB Network can be scary when Eric Byrnes is counted on to be the voice of reason.
A couple of things….
As far as the M’s trading Lee to Tex instead of NY Jack Z did very well in that deal actually.
I LOVE Jesus and am ecstatic that we still have him as I feel the he has a chance to be a generational hitter, however being fair…
Smoak is a switch hitting middle of the order hitter with true power from both sides who will be above average to GG caliber with the glove for the next 10+ years. Jack Z scouted him since high school and knows that kid is a gamer.
The Leuke kid – his criminal case aside- has Joba’s arm throwing 98-99 with a wipeout change and extreme swing-and-miss stuff who looks like a potential elite closer.
The other pitcher is a #3-5 type sinkerballer who is probably just as good as Zach McCallister is.
It came down to Jack Z placing more value in having a switch hitting potential elite defender in Smoak over an elite bat in Montero who’s positional value is still undetermined at this point.
Secondly,
Lee WILL BE a Yank next season but unless the Yanks bid against themselves like STL did with Holliday there’s no way he gets CC $ in terms of years and AAV which shold be slightly below as well.
I’d top out @ 22mil per for 5 with an option on the 6thyear
Pat
I enjoy listening to the mlb guys, but Reynolds also was certain that AJ would pitch game 2 of the ALDS, so I take what they say w/ an enormous grain of salt
pat -
I don’t think Millar and Reynolds are crazy. I think it’s certainly a possibility that the Rangers use Lee on short rest in the ALCS. It will be interesting to see how the Rangers play this.
Doreen-
However the Rangers decide to use Lee one thing is for sure.
They better not damage our goods.
The window of opportunity for the Rays has passed. Gone will be Carl Crawford, Carlos Pena as free agents and possibly the tempermental B.J. Upton in a trade to rebuild a bullpen that will see Rafael Soriano, Joaquin Benoit, Grant Balfour, Randy Choate, and Chad Qualls gone as free agents. The payroll will be reduced meaning that the $4M option of reliever Dan Wheeler won’t be picked up.
Seems odd that owner Stuart Sternberg announced in June that payroll in 2011 would be reduced significantly. This won’t do wonders with an already fickle fanbase.
This leaves the Rays as a young team with no veteran presence which every team needs.
When Sternberg sees so many games with barely 10,000 fans in attendance, he may threaten to uproot the team and move elsewhere.
Maddon will be trying to wring water out of a dry towel. They’ll be competetive enough but the Jays could surpass the Rays in the Al East if they do the right things over the winter months.
new thread
108-
Precisely. TB was a blip on the radar screen of baseball history.
They can now crawl back under the rock of obscurity from where they came.
If I was that owner I’d be long gone. Those fans don’t seem willing to support their team. They don’t deserve to have a winner.
Doreen
Not crazy but more debatable than the no brainer they think it is.
He’s never pitched on short rest and he threw a 120 pitch game yesterday.
Lee isn’t pitching on short rest. He doesn’t do it and from what I understand, no one asks him to.
108 stitches October 13th, 2010 at 9:10 am
I look for Tampa to move to Charlotte NC. Tampa is a depressed area now and besides the team is playing in St Pete. It will be hard to maintain a team there. Also, I think Garza gets traded (or is he a FA too?).
Lee isn’t pitching on three days rest this close to free agency. He ain’t CC in that regard. He’s never done it before.
The M’s did horribly on the trade.
So far, Smoak has been a bust. He has significant swing issues and there is talk they have to completely revamp his swing mechanics to fix him.
Not something you want from the cornerstone piece of a Cliff Lee trade.
You can’t sweep aside the criminal case with Leuke.
He’s a registered sex offender whom half the people in the Mariners front office had no idea was the case.
The other half who knew didn’t tell anybody.
As a result, four people have already been fired and the entire front office, and ownership, are being torn apart in the local media for the trade.
That trade was a disaster at every level for the Mariners.
Jack should have taken the Yankee deal. It was cleaner, easier, and better addressed his needs.
He tried to screw over the Yankees with his game playing.
In the end, all he has done is put himself about a year away from unemployment unless Smoak can find a way to hit major league pitching and his team show some level of improvement in a weak division.
Champ809:
I’m kind of curious about your analysis here.
Josh Lueke, for starters, other than being a scumbag, is going into his Age 26 season with 0 major league innings. He strikes out a lot of guys, but also walks a lot. Lueke doesn’t throw 98-99 that I’ve ever heard of before, he’s can touch the high 90s but sits in the 93-95 range. Still impressive, but it’s not 99.
Blake Beaven is nothing more than organizational depth – he’ll never be more than a 5th starter. While he’s still young and has good control, he strikes people out at a rate familiar to pitchers like John Lannan and Mike Pelfrey. He also had a 5.00 ERA at AA and a 6.47 ERA at AAA after the trade last year. Is he more valuable than McCallister? Maybe, because he’s younger – but he’s never had a year as good as Zack’s pre-injury time in Trenton.
Matt Lawson is yet another piece that is little more than organizational depth. He’s a scrappy Eckstein-type player with minimal power, but a good eye at the plate. He has no plus tools and is going into his Age 26 season and hasn’t played above AA.
None of those guys ranked as Top 15 or Top 10 prospects for the Rangers (at Baseball Prospectus or Baseball America respectively). Let’s not pretend this trade was about anymore than Smoak vs. Montero.
Look I like the Smoak Monster, but let’s calm down in the evaluation of the guy. In 471 plate appearance in ’09 he hit a whopping 12 home runs; another 9 through 225 in ’10. That isn’t the stuff of all world home run title power. He hit 13 in 397 big league plate appearances. Obviously he has great projectability and potential – but he hasn’t really realized it. He’s definitely a solid defender at first but is said to be an extremely poor base runner and has had his effort questioned by scouts in the past.
Quite frankly, Smoak bombed in his first year in the majors. Of course he can improve but .218/.307/.371 is piss poor for a first baseman – especially one as highly touted as Smoak.
I think the big aspect of the trade worth mentioning is that Zduriencik will be receiving Smoak through his prime seasons – he’ll be under team control until he’s 30. Montero would, likely, be a free agent at Age 27 meaning his prime would probably be spent elsewhere.
The Rays will be just fine next season.
They have more than enough arms in their system to make up for the losses of Balfour, Choate and Soriano with guys like Jacob McGee and Matt Moore as well as J.P. Howell who will be back next season….he was one of the top 2 arms in their pen before he went down with the injury.
They will most likely explore bringing Benoit back and Qualls is addition by subtraction type of thing.
Desmond Jennings will replace Craw in LF and although he won’t duplicate Craw’s ’10 season #’s his skillset is very similar and he will contend for R.O.Y. in the AL next season.
They have more than enough chips to be active in the trade market and depending on what they do and how much $ comes off the books they could explore something like Sheilds + Tim Beckham type deal for Prince Fielder…or B.J. Upton to San Diego for Heath Bell.
The point is that do not count out the Rays next season.