The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

The great Game 4 question

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 17, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballAs of Saturday night, while he was gathering his things in the visiting clubhouse at Rangers Ballpark, CC Sabathia said he was still expecting to pitch Game 5, not Game 4. He said the Yankees opened the ALCS with a four-man rotation, and as far as he knew, they still had a four-man rotation.

That being said…

“Whenever they need me to take it, I’ll take it,” Sabathia said. “No problem.”

Considering Sabathia on short rest is either an act of premature panic or a bit of logical preparation. In no way is Game 3 a lost cause — “Let’s not forget that we have a pretty good guy on the mound, too,” Joe Girardi said — but in no way is it a sure win, either. It’s worth considering right now because, if the Yankees want Sabathia on short rest on Tuesday, he would prefer not to throw his bullpen this afternoon.

“Right now, we are on rotation,” Girardi said. “I haven’t discussed that with anyone.”

It’s all hypothetical at this point. Even assuming a loss on Monday, it’s still not clear the Yankees would actually prefer short-rest Sabathia ahead of extra-rest A.J. Burnett. It would not be, after all, a must-win game. Maybe they’d rather take their chances with Burnett and save Sabathia for what might actually be a must win.

Whatever the decision, it would be best to make it today rather than tomorrow. Sabathia is scheduled to throw his regular bullpen session this afternoon. If he’s going to start on short rest, he’d rather skip that bullpen and throw a light side instead.

But that’s not a necessity. The first time Sabathia pitched on short rest for Milwaukee — part of his incredible second half of 2008 – he did it two days after throwing his regular bullpen.

“(Ben) Sheets went down and they wanted me,” Sabathia said. “I told them I would pitch. I had thrown a bullpen just like normal. I don’t think it affected me.”

Associated Press photo





163 Responses to “The great Game 4 question”

  1. LGY October 17th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Matt is the blog terrorist. He had the whiners and complainers at red level yesterday.

  2. stuart a October 17th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    cc is better then aj on no rest. if the yanks need to win game 4 do it. aj is a mental case and the odds of him not spitting the bit are very low.

    the yanks will be fine..

  3. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Aren’t Andy’s numbers ridiculous after a Yankees loss?

  4. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    I don’t see how the Yankees can pitch AJ down 2-1. Hunter may not be very good, but AJ was one of the worst pitchers in baseball this year; I don’t hold out much hope that he’s going to be decent, nevermind dominant or even just good. The problem is that he’d have to pitch game 5 regardles, but so be it. If the Yankees go with CC in game 4 and win that, then they are still in decent position. They’d just have to have a very, very, very short hook with AJ in 5. If they go with AJ in 4 and he spits the bit, then the Yankees will go down 3-1. I think CC has to pitch game 4.

  5. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Yankees fans, get a grip.

    PS record -

    Yankees 4 – 1
    Rangers 4 -3

    ALCS – Tied at 1 – 1

    Stop thinking negative thoughts. Cliff Lee is good, and I can’t wait to see him become a NYY, but, he is beatable.

    Doc Halladay was said to be much better than Lee, and Doc lost last night to a weak hitting SF Giants team.

    We are at home for the next 3 games, and we are on the way to #28. Smile, and not your heart be troubled, for we are the Yankees, and we are the best.

  6. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    I posted (and so did Blake) the reason why AJ will probably start game 4 (and I think they are correct reasons too). AJ has to pitch in game 4 or 5 anyway, and I’d rather have him pitch game 4 against Hunter than game 5 against Wilson.

    I’d tell AJ to empty the tank for 2 innings, and have the bullpen ready to come in as soon as 2 men get on base.

    Too bad the Yankees don’t have a long LH out of the pen…they could use the old trick of starting a righty and then bringing in the lefty early.

  7. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    With his fastball staying up and over the plate, Hughes also had trouble with his curveball. He only threw one changeup


    One change up?

  8. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    I’d rather have AJ lose when we still have CC coming up after him instead of AJ losing with a shaky Hughes and an Andy/Lee match-up behind him.

  9. Erin October 17th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    Is it safe to come on here today???? LOL

    The one thing that I did love about yesterday’s game-Robbie certainly did his part. ;)

  10. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Big Al–The Yankees DO always seem to find a way..Call it good karma, but you are right on.

  11. pat October 17th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Cano 2010 is like Alex 2009 but Alex 2009 only worked because CC, AJ and Andy kept them in the game for timely hits to make a difference.

    It’s all about the pitching.

  12. blake October 17th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    AJ has a better chance of beating Hunter in game 4 than he does beating Wilson in game 5. The ultimate goal isn’t just winning game 4….its winning 2 of 3 at home.

    Unless they cut AJ out all togther then the overall pitching matchups are better with him pitching Game 4….winning game 4 does no good if you turn around and lose game 5.

  13. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Stats: Batters swung at 30.2% of Phil’s curves in the regular season. The league average 39.86%.


    Fixing the curve should be priority one in the off-season

  14. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    (Oh, and against Hunter I wouldn’t be so quick to write us off for that game.. even with AJ pitching.)

  15. SAS October 17th, 2010 at 11:34 am


    AJ can be as good as any pitcher in baseball if he just pitches his best. Pettitte surely has the ability to stop Lee if the the team can muster a few run for him. Both of these guys can do it.

    The lineup has to hit better and make use of good situations. There is no reason to think that we just because Lee is pitching the Yankees can’t win. We have beaten him before and we can do it again especially with timely hitting by the team.

    This has turned into a pitching deal because of early runs scored by the Rangers. The hitters are just as culpable as the pitchers IMO. I have the the batting averages of our guys during the last two games. They are deplorable for the most part. Everyone has to chip in and get timely hits.

    I want Lee on our team next year, but like every other fine pitchers, there are opportunities to get base hits,etc.

  16. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    My guess, the crazy people only come out much later, it’s nice to see rational talk on the blog, and the trolls and naysayers off somewhere else.

  17. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:34 am


    Interesting. On the positive side, that goes to show how much better a pitcher Hughes can still become once he masters the change-up.

    Let’s remember this is a very smart young man who ditched his slider and picked up a great curve in a very short time. I am sure he will eventually master the change and ascend to a higher level as a starter.

  18. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Big Al–

    Perhaps they are in Troll Church this morning?

  19. Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    1 Day, 8 Hours, 24 Minutes to Game 3 of the ALCS. :grin:

  20. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    M, not that you are around now, but I saw your posts probably directed at me from last night – and no, I have no interest in getting into it with you.

  21. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    MTU -

    Good morning, how are things out by you?

  22. LGY October 17th, 2010 at 11:36 am


    I just read your posts on Hughes this morning. I agree I thought Hughes looked very good in the first inning. His fastball looked explosive. The way he was throwing the ball that should have been an easy inning for him.

    I think because it was a high stress inning it got him. He threw a lot of pitches and a lot of high stress pitches. I think that’s why he lost his arm slot.

    He gets back to the dugout quickly like he should have and I think it plays out very different.

    I had no issue with his pitch selection. It was simply a matter of lack of quality yesterday. His pitches just weren’t there for him after the first. I actually think it was smart not stubborn of him to try to recognize his cutter was the only pitch working and try to lean on it.

    He saw what was happening and tried to adjust on the fly.

  23. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    BoJo -

    That may be the case, that would explain them being so Hole – y.

  24. jacksquat October 17th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    If you don’t like AJ vs Hunter, you have to really not like AJ vs Wilson.

    I think I take my shot at winning both those games, rather than setting it up so it’s heavily in favor of a split.

  25. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    BTW–I think that the next time the Yankees face Lewis, they will knock him out early with a big snowman on the board (8).

    They were really getting close to being on him, and Cano absolutely destroys him.

  26. Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am


    Maybe you should read this, written by Chad, after yesterday’s game, quoting Hughes himself.

    “I tried to mix in some changeups. It wasn’t there,” Hughes said. “I tried to get my curveball over sometimes and I was bouncing them. The cutter was actually probably my best pitch today, and I tried to lean on that, and then that started flattening out and was over the plate. It is kind of a helpless feeling when you’re trying to at least mix it up a little bit and you just can’t execute what you want to do.”

  27. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    SAS, I’m not holding out hope for that – that’s false hope, IMO, after how he pitched this year. Blake’s point is a good one, so I guess we’re just going to have to live and die with AJ. If CC and Phil don’t pitch better, we won’t be advancing anyway.

  28. Fran the original October 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    I have been going back and forth on the pitching rotation after Andy as you can see from my posts in the last thread. But I have been swayed to the using AJ in Game 4 and a well rested CC in Game 5 in what could be a “must” win.
    But I do think the Yanks can beat Cliff Lee. After all Andy is no slouch. And if it comes down to the bullpens, the Yankees certainly have the edge.

  29. blake October 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    People that think the Yankees are in trouble in this series are basically suggesting that they needed to sweep the first two games in the road to have a chance….that’s ridiculous.

    The pitching matchups are even over the next 3 games. (#1 vs #2, #4 vs #4, and #1 vs # 2)…the Yankees need to win 2 of 3 at home here same as any other series.

  30. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Doreen, maybe you shouldn’t lecture me. I read that last night……….

  31. hardwired7 October 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Andy should be able to control the Rangers’ running game. that could be the key to game 3: don’t walk them, and don’t let them create havoc on the bases.

  32. Erin October 17th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    pat October 17th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Cano 2010 is like Alex 2009 but Alex 2009 only worked because CC, AJ and Andy kept them in the game for timely hits to make a difference.

    It’s all about the pitching.

    pat-you’re right. But I’m honestly not too concerned about the starting pitching. Yes, CC and Hughes were bad but that long layoff did them no favors. IMO, they’ll both do much better their next time around.

  33. Fran the original October 17th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Big Al,

    Hi. Hope everything is good.

  34. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    SAS, I have not given up on game 3 – I was talking a “what if” scenario. I expect Andy to be great tomorrow.

  35. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    I do hope that Jorge has a better feel for stopping the double steal from this point forward. The second time they tried it, he correctly pocketed the ball…he should do that from now on.

  36. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Bojo, I’d ditch the cutter and forget the change for now – the curve is priority #1, IMO.

  37. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    If Yankees take 2 of 3 at home, they will win game 6 against Lewis. He is not that great.

  38. Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    What lecture, Betsy?

    You sited an article that said Hughes threw one changeup. I thought perhaps you hadn’t seen what Hughes himself said.

  39. Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    **Because you’ve posted here before that sometimes you don’t read everything at the top.

  40. G. Love October 17th, 2010 at 11:45 am


    The umpires are outside your house right now. See that tree? It’s an umpire! They’re even in your oven watching you.

    They all got together last night to make sure they do things just to hurt you, you delusional troll.

    But I talked to them all in Boston this morning with Theo and Pete Abe and they told me if you leave this blog for a year, they’ll try to stop bothering you so much.

    I think you should take them up on their offer.

  41. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:45 am


    Since he has to work on the off-season, I think he needs all pitches. I don’t see him as a pitcher who can make his career just getting by on his FB…

    And it was really surprising to see the curve fail him…I think he has a good one and just was rusty. The cutter could just have been an arm angle thing that needs a slight tweak…BUT the change needs work so he has more confidence in it and can throw it to spot on any count. That is why I called that one out in particular.

  42. Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    **and that would be cited, not sited.

  43. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    I agree that our pitching needs to step it up, and I fully expect both CC and Phil to pitch much better games next time out, but, other than Cano, who is going to step up and get the timely hits with RISP?

    The offense in game 2 is more responsible than Phil for the loss. They put no pressure on the Texas starter, and gave no support to Phil. This still remains a team sport, and if the team as a whole does not step up their game, it could mean real trouble.

    I have faith the Yankees will get back into this series, starting with Monday’s game.

    Those that are willing to write off games before they’re played, I for one don’t want to hear it. GB7 has a special site waiting for those folks.

  44. blake October 17th, 2010 at 11:46 am


    It doesn’t take much to turn a good start into a bad one sometimes….he gets that call on Hamilton then the Rangers don’t score…he throws less piches and as you say maybe he doesn’t lose his arm slot. Now of course you can argue that he should have made adjustments…and yes he should have…but sometimes its not that easy.

    The Rangers game plan was to go the other way against Hughes….the umpire took away the inner half of the plate and things went downhill from there. Not an exuse or umpire conspiracy but that’s baseball and it happens sometimes.

  45. LGY October 17th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    There is no reason for Hughes to ditch the cutter.

    It is a very effective pitch for him and makes his fastball even more effective as well.

    You have been talking about his repitoure all season and now you want him to get rid of a pitch in his that is very good.

    I really don’t know what you expected from Hughes this year. That’s not how young starters develop. It doesn’t happen overnight and it doesn’t happen 10 15 or 30 starts.

  46. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Fran -

    Thanks, things are getting better, one day at a time.

    Got to go take care of some things – be back later.

  47. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Come to think of it, I think the Yankees will also do better against Wilson the second time around. This is such a good. veteran hitting team that a long series like this really is to their benefit as they get to see the pitchers twice within a short period of time. I think that will really be the winning edge here.

  48. MG October 17th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    AJ has been awful most of 2010 but he has had success against the Rangers the past two seasons. Even his last start against them, in Texas in the middle of a terrible stretch of games was OK-2 runs in 4 innings before the game was stopped by rain.

    He knows how to get the Rangers out, he just needs to execute. If I’m Girardi and Eiland we’re telling him to go out and throw the way he normally does and if it doesn’t work we’ll get him out of there. Don’t make any adjustments to your normal pattern against them, it has worked in the past and if you hit your spots it will work this time.

  49. upstate kate October 17th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    I agree w/ it being about the pitching, but if the team is put in a big hole right from the beginning, it puts extra pressure on the offense.
    I like the rotation the way it is currently set up, and think it is unlikely that CC and Phil will have bad games next time out.

    and Erin, you are right, Robbie has been a bright spot this post season

  50. tyanksfan36 October 17th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    So I just found out that I might be able to get a ball signed by Buster Posey…im pretty excited about that. I might be able to get a ball signed by Joe Mauer next season too because my dad works with Michael Cuddyer’s uncle, he got a ball signed by Mauer for another guy they work with and my dad didnt think I would want one so he didnt even ask.

    anyway…I think we have a good chance at winning tomorrow with Andy on the mound. He has pitched in huge games his whole career and our guys have hit Lee in the past, they can certainly do it again. I honestly worry more about our offense than our pitching. I think once CC and Phil are on regular rest then they will be fine. I felt bad for Phil because he said that he tried to make it work, he just had nothing. and as bad as CC was, it could have been worse. he definitely limited the damage and battled through it. AJ is iffy but so it Hunter so I like our chances especially since our BP has been lights out.

  51. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Bojo, no pitcher can rely on 1 pitch – which is what I’ve been saying. The cutter really is not a great pitch for him and he needs a better curve. I don’t mean he shouldn’t work on the change, but take a look at those #s re: the curve: it’s just not very good. That is more important than the change up. As I said last night, he has to want to do this. As long as he’s still in overly in love with his, it’s not going to change.

    Doreen, I read it…………..and I also see that he threw 1 change up.

    It appears that there are only a few of us (Rich, Captain Clutch, myself) that think Phil can’t get by with simply a FB.

  52. Bret The Hitman October 17th, 2010 at 11:53 am


    You are such a drama queen.

  53. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    LGY, I posted the scouting report from Frankie Piliere last night – the cutter is hurting his arm angle, and as such, his other pitches. As he said in that report, Phil has made a ton of mistakes with the cutter; is it really that good of a pitch for him?

    I’m not talking about this year – this year, except for a few more starts (maybe) is over. I’m talking about going forward. You keep saying the problem last night was that his FB wasn’t of the quality it was against Minny. Well, he’ s not going to have that FB that often – that’s not going to be Phil on a regular basis. He needs other pitches……..I really don’t get why this is such a controversial topic on this board.

  54. blake October 17th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Pitching is all about feel….its about evaluating what you have early in the outing and modifying your gamplan to fit that.

    You don’t learn how to do that in one season. The problem isn’t the cutter….its the fact that despite his talent, Hughes still is inexperienced and is still learning how to manage a start. He will learn but what we saw yesterday was one of the drawbacks of having to throw a 24 year old in game 2 of the ALCS. His assortment of pitches is fine….they just need more development and more importantly he just needs the experience and a better understanding of when to throw them.

  55. upstate kate October 17th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    lucky you :) you can start a collection of catcher-signed baseballs…now what about something from Boggs?

  56. Bronx Jeers October 17th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    AJ will not have pitched live in 17 days when he takes the mound on Tuesday. That was when he was having trouble with the Pawtucket lineup.

    Is he capable? Sure.

    All we need is a wing and a prayer.

  57. MG October 17th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    Betsy, Phil is 24 years old, why not just accept him for what he is right now (1st year starter, 18 wins, a great game in the ALDS, a lousy game yesterday) and wait a couple of years before all the criticism? You don’t know enough about pitching to really have an opinion of what he needs to do (none of us do, we’re amateurs) so why not just observe and see how it progresses?

  58. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Anyway, it’s too bad Robby struggled the last month of the season because he could have won the MVP………….I don’t think he will now, but it doesn’t matter. All of America is seeing what a great hitter he is……..

  59. SJ44 October 17th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Too much overreaction by the same folks over one bad start.

    Get over it and move on.

    The more you try to dissect the “problem”, the more you show you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Stop looking at articles from the media and chill out.

    Bad starts happen to every pitcher. Take a look at Andy’s Game 6 start in the 2001 WS.

    A “slightly” more important start than yesterday and he was worse.

    It’s best to learn to turn the page and realize the playlets are small sample sizes of unpredictable things.

    It’s not for the whiny or faint of heart.

  60. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    MG, I don’t think any of us are on the same page. I’m just talking about what Phil needs to reach his potential……….that’s all.

  61. MG October 17th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Betsy, it was either Smoltz or Darling, both of whom know a lot more than that scout does about pitching that said Hughes’ cutter was a really good pitch for him. He needs to locate it better, he will learn…

  62. LGY October 17th, 2010 at 12:04 pm


    Again yesterday I was not talking about Phil. I was talking about what you posted.
    Today I said the quality wasn’t there for ALL his pitches.

    You are reading way way to much into that Frankie article. As Jerkface has posted many times this season he gets more swings and misses on that pitch than any other. Missing bats is the best snd most effective way to ensure you pitch well. It is a very good pitch and works off his fastball nicely.

    Like girardi said yesterday I don’t make snap shot judgements. You should follow Joes advice.

  63. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Ok MG……………I guess we’ll see. For what it’s worth, except for that Post article (which I did not click on myself – I saw it on another board), I have not read one article about the Yankees today – and I don’t intend to.

  64. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Betsy–interesting point on the arm angle of the cutter hurting his other pitches. I wonder if that is something that can be corrected so he has the best of both worlds….

  65. LGY October 17th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Why are we even talking about Phils future or potential in the middle of the ALCS?

  66. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:07 pm


    Whitey Ford, the Chairman of the Board, was a favorite of mine…and I can see Phil evolving into that kind of a pitcher.

  67. West Coast Yankee Fan October 17th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Waking up to more Phil Hughes, no surprise.

    Hughes had had one bad game and one good game so far in the 2009 post season. I’ll take it. He’s a 24 year old who started the year as our number five and won 18 games.

    He has four pitches, a fastball, curve, cutter and change. Some days, as is typical with most pitchers and particularly young pitchers, his command and stuff is better than others. e field

    By the way, we’re home having taken home field advantage away from Texas with the winningest pitcher in post-season history going for us. I’m just saying.

  68. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:08 pm


    I am talking about Phil simply because it is the topic of the moment….Sunday…no game….

  69. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:08 pm


    I am talking about Phil simply because it is the topic of the moment….Sunday…no game….

  70. blake October 17th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    The Phillies are in more trouble than the Yanks are this morning. They aren’t hitting either and if Sanchez is on he could give that lineup all kinds of problems.

  71. LGY October 17th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Andy Pettite had a mud 5 era his first 3 years in the postseason.

  72. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    CR9 October 17th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    The easy solution is buy a 44 Magnum, move to Texas and register it, then invite the umps out to drinks and drink until you can’t remember anymore.

    I’m sure we’ll all read about it the next day.

  73. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    Blake–THat was a gutsy move by SF to pitch Sanchez, but if he is on (as you predict), it would put Cain in game 3 playing with house money.

    It was great seeing Rags in the SF dugout, and another reason to root for the Giants to win. I’d love to see him back in NYC at the new stadium.

  74. tyanksfan36 October 17th, 2010 at 12:12 pm


    It totally slipped my mind that they were both catchers. Boggs has only come in once to get his grandson, but weve been told not to say anything to him because they dont want his grandson to be treated differently or something.
    I could have had something signed by Posada too if my dad had recognized him in time. I literally live 12 minutes from the community that he and Jeter live in. My dad worked at this post office annex that delivered mail to their community and they often got certified letters for pickup. Normally their housekeeper or assistants picks up the mail for them but Jorge came to pick up this one package. My dad was right there opening the door and he didnt realize who it was until someone had told him and by then he had gotten into his car and driven off. Apparently Laura, his wife comes by all the time to pick things up and the guys love it.

  75. Bret The Hitman October 17th, 2010 at 12:13 pm


    Dude, you are a drama queen. Drink a glass of OJ. Hydrate yourself. Drink more water throughout the day instead of coffee.

    You have a headache because your brain cells are starving for food, water and oxygen.

    Get some sun.

  76. Rich in NJ October 17th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I didn’t even know that someone named Matt posts here.

  77. Rich in NJ October 17th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    “The Phillies are in more trouble than the Yanks are this morning”

    I don’t think the Yankees are in any trouble.

  78. MG October 17th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    I can deal with Matts’ stupid, condescending posts, they are long and there seems to be sufficient time between them where it doesn’t hit me along the head.

    CR9′s idiocy, however, is repeated so frequently that it makes the game threads just something to ignore. What he doesn’t realize is that he could watch any game, pick a team to root for, and immediately be calling the umpires biased against that team. He needs serious mental therapy, too bad he uses this blog to enable his illness.

  79. blake October 17th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    I don’t either.

  80. Cashmoney October 17th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Is it fair to say Tex is by and large a mistake hitter? I am curious what the Blog’s opinion on this is.

  81. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    # Rich in NJ October 17th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I didn’t even know that someone named Matt posts here.



  82. West Coast Yankee Fan October 17th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Matt doesn’t need my defense but it seems to me that he is as much of a passionate Yankee fan as anyone else here. To call him “stupid” and a “blog terrorist” just because one doesn’t agree with his perspective, seems to me to stand those posting such comments in poor stead. He always addresses an issue articulately and provides facts and examples to substantiate his position. Agree or not, he is a terrific asset to this blog IMO.

    When are people going to learn that anyone has the right to express their take without being subject to personal insults? I have made that mistake in the past and have come to the conclusion it’s wrong to do so.

  83. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Cashmoney – I have no idea but he needs to either start hitting or laying off those curve balls.

  84. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:29 pm


    Well said.

  85. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Who is Matt anyway?

  86. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:31 pm


    Further on the Sanchez post, I think a lefty against that line-up with the stuff Sanchez has really could be the winning strategy for the series. He gets games 2 and 6, and Cain gets 3 and 7. I really like that the more I think about it.

  87. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Frankie Piliere is not a pitching coach, nor has he work closely with Phil, or any other pitchers. To put so much faith in an article written by a now sports writer, non baseball coach, is doing yourself a disservice.

    I have continued faith in the Yankees pitching coach, Dave Eiland, and his ability to work out the problems with his staff.

    No one on this blog is qualified to make rational statements about any pitchers performance, and no one here is in the clubhouse hearing what is being said, so relax, and enjoy the games, support your team, and please stop over analyzing every pitch and at bat the team makes. It makes no sense at all, because you speak from emotion, not knowledge.

  88. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Big Al–

    Words of wisdom….the same apply to decisions made by Girardi and Cashman to an extent. They have much more baseball knowledge to draw on than us fans. I trust them based on their performance…which is a WC, and well positioned to get another.

  89. Rich in NJ October 17th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Cody Ross’ name spelled backwards is Sorry Doc????

    Holy $h*t

  90. LGY October 17th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Matt is the guy who has been terrorizing the game threads only when the Yankees are losing for years now. The Yankees go down and he jumps out from his bunker. The reason he is able to post such long posts in the middle of the game is because he has a database where he just changes the names that fit the situation.

    He is a blog terrorist Bojo. Don’t let him win :mad:

    Or just ignore him like Rich and most of the blog does :)

  91. Cashmoney October 17th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    . The reason he is able to post such long posts in the middle of the game is because he has a database where he just changes the names that fit the situation.

  92. Rich in NJ October 17th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    “No one on this blog is qualified to make rational statements about any pitchers performance”

    This is so ridiculous it’s laughable.

    People may or may not be right, but their statements certainly can be rational, and there is also the possibility that they are right.

  93. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:39 pm


    Great pick…and very appropriate!

  94. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:40 pm


    Wow! That is serious trolling….in the Troll HOF, he must have his own wing!

  95. Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Perhaps a better word than “rational” is “definitive.”

  96. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:41 pm


    THe rational statements point perhaps should have said qualifies opinions…and I think Big Al is right that we don’t have all the inside info that the team has.

  97. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    CR9 -

    I have no idea if you did, or did not do things you’ve been accused of, but, a Yankees blog is not the place to work out any anger issues. You should be doing that with a medical professional. I do not wish to add to any problems you may be dealing with, but, you may want to consider talking RATIONAL baseball here on this blog, or trying a different site.

    I think of you as a very passionate fan, but, all too many times you are too far over the top, and need to rein it in.

    This is simply my opinion, and you can choose to ignore it, that’s your decision.

  98. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    s/b qualified opinions.

  99. blake October 17th, 2010 at 12:42 pm


    I think that was the rationale. The phiillies really struggle against lefties at times and that puts Cain throwing in the bigger ballpark in game 3.

  100. Ruby Tuesday October 17th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    The Texas Rangers will win the series in five games .

  101. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Troll church just let out.

  102. Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    CR9 -

    Since you brought it up, your name comes up over 100 times in the game thread. Some of those are responses, but most are your posts.

    To me, that’s a lot.

    I understand your need to work out your anger issues and such, but perhaps you should find another outlet. And I sincerely do hope you can find a way to get yourself together.

    When you talk baseball, outside the game threads, there is no problem.

    But otherwise, we are unwilling participants in your self-therapy, and that’s not fair.

  103. Ruby Tuesday October 17th, 2010 at 12:52 pm


  104. Rich in NJ October 17th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    “THe rational statements point perhaps should have said qualifies opinions…and I think Big Al is right that we don’t have all the inside info that the team has”

    We don’t have inside information, but sometimes people with inside information use that information incorrectly or are affected by biases.

    The logical extension of his point is that we can never criticize what a manager does. That’s not only wrong, it’s silly.

    For example, could any “rational” person doubt that Torre was an idiot to use an already overworked Tom Gordon in Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS with a 9 run lead?

    That’s just one of many examples of managerial malpractice.

    It’s part of being a fan to point those mistakes out.

  105. MG October 17th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Doreen October 17th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
    CR9 -

    Since you brought it up, your name comes up over 100 times in the game thread. Some of those are responses, but most are your posts.

    To me, that’s a lot.

    I understand your need to work out your anger issues and such, but perhaps you should find another outlet. And I sincerely do hope you can find a way to get yourself together.

    When you talk baseball, outside the game threads, there is no problem.

    But otherwise, we are unwilling participants in your self-therapy, and that’s not fair.
    Doreen, I just counted them just to see if I was nuts, it was 114 posts during the game by CR9, virtually all of them about umpiring. How pathetic…

  106. Cashmoney October 17th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Well said,Rich.

  107. blake October 17th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Boston will finish in 3rd place in 2010 :(

  108. 108 stitches October 17th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    As seen last night, even Roy Halladay can get a loss pinned on him although he threw a quality start and walked no hitters. The very best of pitchers can be victims of poor run support. A combination of good pitching and timely hitting will win a high percentage of the time.
    Too many variables can happen from game to game.

  109. cs in la October 17th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Hey Ruby, the bars must be closed in Boston, huh? Nothing better to do?

  110. Carlo October 17th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    I would advise against using past performance versus texas as an indicator of future success. See hughes, phil.

  111. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    MG -

    That is a valid concern, but, I ask you, what’s worse, CR9 posts, or the person or persons responsible for the problem Nick in SF experienced?

    I’m not pointing a finger at anyone, but, it seems very strange that when a person like Matt is accused as being a troll, the person that comes to his aid, is the same person that stated he had proof of who did that to Nick, and wanted people’s E-mail addresses, so he could send them the proof.

    Did Chad receive that proof? I’m going to E-mail Chad and ask, and if he did, I’ll ask him to post what he finds.

    In my opinion, Chad and his staff have been too far removed from the site, thus allowing it to degenerate at times.

    Pete Abe, did not like him, worked alone, but got more done than the 2 guys now controlling the blog. This makes no sense.

  112. MG October 17th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Jim Reynolds will be fair in Game 3. He simply has to be October 17th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
    Doreen – That is a lot of posts. But why cant people just ignore me. Also, Im an unwilling participant of the umpires’ agenda, and that’s not fair to me. But nobody seems to care about that.

    Im going to stop discussing this now because contrary to beliefs, I feel uncomfortable “taking over the blog.” I do my best game in and game out to limit my posts, to limit my vitriol, but playoff games are playoff games. There is no tomorrow in the playoffs, and they’ve taken far too many world series titles away from us. it has to end somewhere.
    what a putz you are. Congratulations on ruining the game threads for almost everyone else, there is something for you to put on your resume next to your other noted accomplishments.

  113. MG October 17th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Big Al, I missed all of that and it was gone by the time I looked at the site the next day but neither is acceptable, period.

  114. Captain Clutch October 17th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    I would let AJ pitch game 4 and then you have CC and Hughes on regular rest and I expect them to be much much better on regular rest. Especially CC. AJ against Hunter is a much better match up for the Yanks instead of him against Wilson. Hunter isn’t good and if this lineup can actually wake up they can smack him around. I don’t expect much out of AJ and Girardi has to have an extremely short leash. Like have Moseley warming up in the 2nd inning if you have to and don’t let AJ give up 4+ runs.

  115. Cashmoney October 17th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    CR is way too redundant with the umpire cries. 100 posts of the same thing is hard to stomach for anyone. While I can sympathized your plight, it simply is not fair to the rest of ppl who want to participate in a game thread. So tone it down, dude.

    But I have also seen some serious allegations flung his way without any substantive evidences.
    I am not quite sure what to make of that.

  116. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    MG -

    I’ve E-mailed Chad, and hope to get a response soon. I’ve E-mailed Chad with serious concerns in the past, and never received a response, I hope this concern does not fall on deaf ears.

    If I do get a response, I’ll post it immediately.

  117. BIG AL October 17th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    I’m backing out for awhile, catch y’all later.

  118. pak14life October 17th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Pete Abe was better with the blog because it was “his” blog. He started it so he was naturally more attached to it. He would even post in the comments some times.Chad and his crew dont do as good a job but its better than nothing.

  119. SAS October 17th, 2010 at 1:35 pm


    Baseball is a game played for our pleasure. The people who post on here obviously have more than a passing interest in the game….however…..every umpire is not rotten, doesn’t squeeze Yankees’ pitchers and not the other guy.

    You continue to go beyond the norm in complaining about everything, and I don’t even read the game threads. They are too ridiculous for words. It is like being in a bad bar and hearing every person there and their complaints.

    I have suggested to you before that you get a new therapist because whoever you are going to has done no good. This has gone on during every game all season, and frankly, tiresome is a mild word for the way we all feel.

    You are making everyone’s life on here miserable, and you are accused justly or unjustly of revealing personal information.

    Enough is enough

  120. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 1:38 pm


    Perhaps you could start your anger-based posts with a disclaimer:


    That way you could help people just move along and not waste their time.

    I hope you do find help. The good thing is you recognize the problem and are trying. While doing so, remember to be considerate of others who do not need to be dragged into your world.

    But I would hate to learn that you killed yourself because you didn’t receive help.

  121. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 1:39 pm


  122. hardwired7 October 17th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Nick in SF has an epic sense of humor. his posts have made me laugh out loud more times than I can count.

    if someone’s petty jealousy has driven him from the board, we’re all worse off for it.

    it’s a damn shame.

  123. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    I’m sure running a blog thats this popular is pretty tough.

    I read a NJ Devils blog by Tom Gulitti thats really amazing, mostly because Tom responds to the comments all the time and is really hands on with his readers. Now, the Devils’ fans can push 500+ posts a game, but its really nothing compared to this blog. Its probably a lot more difficult for them to engage in fan participation. Thats probably why they try to do the chats whenever they can.

    That being said, I would absolutely love it if Chad and Sam posted here in the comments section more and took a more active approach with the regulars. The insight you can get from those guys is unreal. I know I appreciate Mr. Gulitti’s participation on his blog, the man has patience of steel.

  124. Tom in N.J. October 17th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    I hope Nick comes back.

    He’s one of the reasons this blog is (was?) great.

  125. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    Are people really trying to talk CR9 off the ledge?

    I honestly always assumed most of his posts were based on sarcasm and his desire to perpetuate the myth that he is mentally unstable… are people taking this seriously??!

    Then again, what do I know? Maybe we’ll all be on CNN one day saying something like “Hey, we just thought when he said he wanted to cut off that umpires head he was kidding!”

  126. Shame Spencer October 17th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Nick from SF is gone?! Is this real life? WHY?!!

    If Nick isn’t eating In-And-Out, can the Yankees even win?!

  127. ConcernedCitizen October 17th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    I used to run a news website – keeping up with user comments is probably one of the hardest parts of the job, and because of the day-to-day work, it unfortunately becomes an afterthought. I rarely commented when Pete was running the blog, so I’m not sure how he ran the comment section – but its hard for anyone to keep up with it.

    I bailed on the game thread pretty early last night, about after browsing this thread it sounds like things got pretty ugly.

  128. MTU October 17th, 2010 at 1:54 pm


    I was out for my morning hike.

    Things are good here. Weather is getting more perfect each day right now.

    Got that tropiclean. thanks for the tip.

    How are things in Carolina ? :)

  129. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    The fastball command — or lack of fastball command, in this case — was surprising compared to Hughes’ last outing, but what shouldn’t have come as much of surprise was his lack of feel for the secondary pitches. Looking back at that Division Series outing, Hughes did establish his curveball but never proved he could routinely locate it in any quadrant of the strike zone.

    The Rangers’ lineup requires far more than simply showing them a secondary pitch. If you’re going to beat them, much like with the Yankees lineup, you need to locate at least one secondary pitch in the strike zone. Hughes never really came close to doing that in this one, but of course the question is why.

    When it comes to his curveball, his command of it has been a recurring problem for Hughes despite his strong 2010 campaign. Sometimes he lacks the extension he needs and begins to push his pitches. You’ll see his fastball command suffer from that and you’ll also see a lot of bouncing curveballs. And, we saw quite a bit of that on Saturday afternoon.

  130. Tom in N.J. October 17th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Looking at Cliff Lee’s career stats vs the Yankees hitters.

    Many of them have hit Lee hard:

    Jeter has a .417 BA in 36 at bats.

    Swisher has .320 BA in 25 at bats.

    Teix has hit .333 vs Lee in 30 at bats.

    Granderson hits him some too..

    Infact, as a team, the Yankees have hit Lee to the tune of .280BA/.329OBP/ .811 OPS…

  131. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    I’m sure most of those stats were accumulated before Lee became Lee.

    That said, he’s not unbeatable…………but Andy will have to match him (and I think he will)

  132. West Coast Yankee Fan October 17th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Stats from the past don’t usually mean much and no one can predict what’s going to happen. Lee may be great, he may stink, or he may be average, and the same goes for Pettitte. Profound? Not even close. Reality? Yes.

  133. BoJo October 17th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    With all this talk about a pitcher’s duel, the game will probably end 9-8.

  134. West Coast Yankee Fan October 17th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    It might, stranger things have happened. Who could have predicted that Cody Ross would take Roy Halladay deep twice?

  135. Cashman needs to go October 17th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Is it just me or does sabathia’s gut look bigger than normal? Need to go and check halladay, lee and lincecum’s gut’s just to be sure…

  136. blake October 17th, 2010 at 3:11 pm


    That fangraphs article is true but not particularly unique to Phil’s start yesterday. Thats pretty much the book on any pitcher that struggles….especially against good lineups in the postseason.

  137. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Blake, I think the point is that Phil has consistently had problems with his curve. This was discussed on the board all year – it’s no surprise. On another board where we discussed this, someone brought up Phil’s power curve from ST 2009………that was a good one. He doesn’t really use that anymore, but then the curve wasn’t a big part of his repertoire this year.

    I agree with Frankie that Phil has got to be pin-point perfect with his FB if he’s not going to have secondary pitches to back him up, especially against a team like TX, who feasts on FB. I think this is a dangerous game to play and frankly I’m surprised that the vast majority of folks on this board think Phil can get by with just his FB (or FB/cutter). We criticize AJ for being a 2 pitch pitcher……….

  138. blake October 17th, 2010 at 3:40 pm


    Nobody thinks Hughes needs to be a 2 pitch pitcher. That is part of AJ’s problem but not his biggest problem. His biggest problem is his inability to consistently command either of those pitches. If he could then he would still be very effective even with just those 2 pitches.

    Hughes looked very good in the first inning yesterday, his fastball was dominant and he was hitting his spots. Something happened between the first and second inning and that changed…he got out of sync somehow, started getting the ball up, and stopped throwing inside. Those things combined with Texas’s fastball hitting lineup and opposite field approach led to bad things.

    It was a bad start in a big game but people are making too much of it.

  139. MoRings42 October 17th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Freddy Sez RIP

    That stinks..everyone is dying this year.

  140. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Blake, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree………If Phil is going to become a frontline starter, he needs his breaking pitches. I’m not taking about one game – for most of the year he’s struggled with his secondary pitches. It’s not about one game, it’s about the fact that he has consistently struggled with his curve and/or change. I don’t love his cutter – he gets beat on it a lot. I’m not killing him, so if people want to think I am, well so be it. It’s also not about one game. We’re trying to project into the future because that’s what fans do………and teams have to do that in a way with their young players.

    I’m sort of sorry now he went into the pen.

  141. m October 17th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Re: the thread question, I would keep CC for game 5. Splitting in Texas assures game 4 won’t be an elimination game.

  142. blake October 17th, 2010 at 3:57 pm


    He does need secondary pitches to reach his full potential. The problem is when people expect those to develop quicker than whats realistic.

    Again, he’s 24 and this is his first time 1) starting in the postseason 2) throwing this many innings. He’s had a successful season and while nothing in the future is guaranteed, I do think its plausible to think that he’s going to continue up the development curve instead of stalling where he is.

    Cliff Lee’s first full season wasn’t until he was 25 and he had a 5.43 ERA that season….pitchers do improve and continue to develop as they gain more experience.

  143. MG October 17th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Betsy, with all due respect, you really don’t understand how many of us feel about Hughes’ development. Pitchers need more than one pitch to be #1 or #2 starters, of course. But you have to give him time to develop and perfect those pitches at the major league level. Minor league and spring training observations really mean nothing, it’s a whole new ballgame when a pitcher goes into a major league rotation.

    You are taking a snapshot of Phil in 2010 and making the assumption he does not improve; I look at him in 2010, see the results, understand he’s 24 years old and in his 1st year in the rotation, and assume he will improve the same way many other excellent pitchers have over the past 120 years.

  144. Betsy October 17th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    MG, I’m not saying he won’t improve, but he has to want to improve in that regard. He didn’t throw his curve or change very much at all this year…..tried to get by mostly on his FB and cutter. In this other discussion, people are going over his mechanics from last year and this year – or even in Detroit this year to Minny recently. Now I don’t see any difference – to me, that’s nitpicking.

    Blake, I never said he was going to stall where he is…..We’ll have to wait and see.

  145. Tom in N.J. October 17th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    Phil threw his curveball 16.6 % of the time

    He threw his cutter 18.1 % of the time

    He threw his Chaneup 2.7 % of the time

    He threw his 2-seam fastball 5.3 % of the time

    He threw his fastball 57.2 % of the time.

  146. West Coast Yankee Fan October 17th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Betsy, who said Hughes does not want to improve? Each time a pitcher takes the mound in a game situation is different. Some days a pitcher will have better command and stuff than others. If he doesn’t have his good curve that day, he won’t and shouldn’t throw it very often.

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