Cashman: “Winter is upon us”
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Podcast on Oct 23, 2010 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
Last last night, in the hours after the Yankees were eliminated from the posteason, Brian Cashman said he not begun thinking about the offseason. He wasn’t thinking about Derek Jeter’s expiring contract, he had not explored the free agent and trade markets, and he had yet to set a plan of action with ownership.
But that day is coming, and it’s coming soon.
“It’s not something that’s on my mind right now,” Cashman said. “We’ll deal with that stuff this winter, and winter is upon us. Now we’ll start that whole process of assessing what our needs are, begin negotiating with the guys to try to bring those guys back, and then look at the trade and free agent market.”
Obviously, one seven-game series can define a postseason, but it hardly defines a team. Cashman said the events of the past week and a half are “not going to affect anything” this winter. The Yankees didn’t play well in the ALCS. There’s not much more to read into it.
“Our team has areas of weakness that we have to tackle,” Cashman said. “I think we have a great team, but Texas just proved they’re better. It’s as simple as that. Obviously the job is to attack areas of weakness and hope that your current strengths remain strengths.”
There is a lot for the Yankees to do this winter. They have to figure out what to do with their manager. They have three cornerstone players facing free agency. They have obvious holes to fill on the pitching staff. They have an injured DH, a rental DH and a platoon DH with expiring contracts. They have to determine the potential impact of young but possibly ready players like Jesus Montero.
A year ago, Cashman went into the offseason with a championship and a weak free agent market. He tried to patch over area’s of weakness. This winter could see more significant changes.
Two changes Cashman doesn’t expect: Derek Jeter at shortstop and Mariano Rivera at closer.
“This is where they belong,” Cashman said.
Here’s Cashman after last night’s game.
Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
Associated Press photo of Cashman with Joe Girardi
Cliff Lee will not be a New York Yankee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, a series doesn’t define a team, but this team played .500 ball for 2 months.
CB, I agree that this season can not be classified as a failure. I mean, they made it to within 2 games of the WS. It was a disappointment in some regards because they didn’t play up to their potential, but a failure? No way.
The whole baseball world got to see how good Cano is – he’s special. Seeing Andy do his thing was special. The man is getting better as he ages……and although Lee got ALL of the hype and Andy was made out to be nothing, Andy went toe to toe and pitched so well. Granderson is going to be a dynamic player for us. Watching Kerry Wood’s resurgence was a pleasure; I’m a fan for life now, wherever he goes.
One thing I can’t wait for in 2011: Jeter’s 3000th hit.
This will be Cliff Lee’s first, and maybe only, free agent contract. He will go to the highest bidder.
And Ruby, the Clinton’s no longer reside in Arkansas. They have homes in Westchester, New York and Washington D.C.
Andy has 240 wins. How can he not come back for the 250th????
$$$$$$$ Cliff Lee $$$$$$$$ is staying in Texas!!!!
Now is the winter of our discontent…
craigcalcaterra Query: should the Orioles fire Buck Showalter now so as to hasten their next pennant?
Chad, Sam, tech people: is this the sort of behavior you want on your blog? A poster encouraging another poster to stalk yet another poster and then share illegally obtained personal info.? Time to ban this freak for good.
Trisha – true pinstriped blue October 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 am
If the person who knows how to get everyone’s personal information is lurking about, I’d like Ruby Tuesday’s please! And yes, I will pay for it.
Keep posting moron. And then there were no more.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z13BbiQRDe
PRINT EMAIL Buzz up! FACEBOOK DIGG TWITTER RSS SHARE
No matter who wins the NLCS, Cliff Lee looms as the dominant figure of the World Series, beginning with Game 1.
Darren Carroll
1. The Giants and Phillies didn’t play yesterday, but it was a bad day for both clubs, anyway. The Texas Rangers wrapped up the ALCS with a 6-1 win over New York, thereby saving ace Cliff Lee for Game 1 of the World Series instead of having to use him in an ALCS Game 7.
The National League champion now gets a well-rested Lee twice in the first five games of the World Series. If Texas needed to use Lee in a Game 7 to get to the World Series, Lee would have been available to pitch two of the first six games and would have been coming off the grind of having started four times in the first two rounds.
Lee is a postseason legend (7-0, 1.26), so he is a difficult draw no matter what the circumstance. But this eight-day break for Lee since he pitched ALCS Game 3 is a boon for the Rangers.
Since version 2.0 of Lee emerged in 2008, he has started 12 times with six days of rest or more, including Game 1 of the 2009 World Series when he outpitched CC Sabathia and dominated the Yankees. Lee’s record in those starts with extended rest is 8-1 with a 1.57 ERA.
So no matter who wins the NLCS, Lee looms as the dominant figure of the World Series, beginning with Game 1, when for a second straight year we are treated to an all-Cy pitching matchup. Lee either returns to Philadelphia to pitch against Roy Halladay or goes to San Francisco (where he is 2-0, 1.13) to square off against Tim Lincecum.
It’s the exact right denouement to the Year of the Pitcher. Lee is to the 2010 World Series plot line what Sandy Koufax was to the 1965 World Series, Bob Gibson to the 1968 World Series, Orel Herisher to the 1988 World Series and Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling to the 2001 World Series.
2. That was one brilliant game thrown by Texas righthander Colby Lewis in ALCS Game 6. He was in complete command of his emotions and pitches all night. Now the Rangers, if they wish, can slot a righthander brimming with confidence between left-handers Lee and C.J. Wilson in the World Series.
Just how impressive was that game by Lewis? It ranks among the greatest games ever thrown to eliminate the Yankees. Indeed, no pitcher ever eliminated the Yankees while giving them so few hits over at least eight innings. Here are the fewest hits allowed by a starter while eliminating New York (min: eight innings):
Pitcher Team Series Hits
1. Colby Lewis Rangers 2010 ALCS 3
2. Art Nehf N.Y. Giants 1921 World Series 4
3. Art Nehf N.Y. Giants 1922 World Series 5
3. Josh Beckett Marlins 2003 World Series 5
3. Jeremy Bonderman Tigers 2006 ALDS 5
3. The Yankees were thoroughly outplayed by the Rangers in the ALCS. The Yankees’ mighty offense had much to do with the downfall — it fizzled. In the four games New York lost, it was outscored 31-6 without scoring more than three runs in any of those four games.
The pitching also broke down, but that represented a longer-term problem more than just a bad stretch of six games. New York’s 2010 blueprint went awry long ago when starters A.J. Burnett and Javier Vazquez devolved into relatively useless pitchers — at the price of $28 million.
What hurt just as much, if not more, was the slow regression by Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain, the two young pitchers that the organization treated with kid gloves for the past three years with the big hope that those homegrown power arms would keep them from wasting money on old, expensive free agents.
Hughes lost twice — badly — in the ALCS. In his final nine starts of the year, he was 3-5 with a 6.02 ERA. Last year, the Yankees got by without having any good fourth option in their postseason rotation. This year they couldn’t come up with a good third option.
Chamberlain, meanwhile, has devolved from a lights-out setup reliever and the heir to Mariano Rivera to a mediocre starting pitcher, to a set-up reliever, to a set-up reliever to set-up reliever, to a … well, the most hyped middle reliever in baseball.
The ALCS turned on two key intersections: in Game 4 when manager Joe Girardi preferred to leave the game in the hands of a fading, rusty Burnett as Texas rallied, and in Game 6 when Girardi needed a tourniquet as Hughes was letting the elimination game get away. (He gave the ball to David Robertson, who quickly let the game get out of hand.) In neither case was Chamberlain an option for Girardi, a damning statement about his lack of development.
When the Yankees needed them most, Burnett, Vazquez, Hughes and Chamberlain were not there. Hughes, 24, and Chamberlain, 25, are still young enough to become big-time pitchers; the time for that just had not arrived yet this postseason.
To fix the pitching problem, the Yankees have one goal: to overwhelm Lee with money the way they did Sabathia. It probably will work, too. If not, however, Plan B is far less obvious. No other top pitcher will be available on the free agent market, and so the Yankees would have to ship off some of their best young players to acquire a pitcher such as Zack Greinke in a trade.
If Lee wins a WS w Texas and gets an offer not much lower than NY, he may stay in Arlington to not look like a Mercenary that is only about money. Also lower state taxes and Nolan Ryan I’m sure will have a great sales pitch. Better shot of Lee leaving if Texas loses the Fall Classic
Sorry, I didn’t mean to post the whole thing just this part:
The pitching also broke down, but that represented a longer-term problem more than just a bad stretch of six games. New York’s 2010 blueprint went awry long ago when starters A.J. Burnett and Javier Vazquez devolved into relatively useless pitchers — at the price of $28 million.
What hurt just as much, if not more, was the slow regression by Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain, the two young pitchers that the organization treated with kid gloves for the past three years with the big hope that those homegrown power arms would keep them from wasting money on old, expensive free agents.
Hughes lost twice — badly — in the ALCS. In his final nine starts of the year, he was 3-5 with a 6.02 ERA. Last year, the Yankees got by without having any good fourth option in their postseason rotation. This year they couldn’t come up with a good third option.
Chamberlain, meanwhile, has devolved from a lights-out setup reliever and the heir to Mariano Rivera to a mediocre starting pitcher, to a set-up reliever, to a set-up reliever to set-up reliever, to a … well, the most hyped middle reliever in baseball.
The ALCS turned on two key intersections: in Game 4 when manager Joe Girardi preferred to leave the game in the hands of a fading, rusty Burnett as Texas rallied, and in Game 6 when Girardi needed a tourniquet as Hughes was letting the elimination game get away. (He gave the ball to David Robertson, who quickly let the game get out of hand.) In neither case was Chamberlain an option for Girardi, a damning statement about his lack of development.
When the Yankees needed them most, Burnett, Vazquez, Hughes and Chamberlain were not there. Hughes, 24, and Chamberlain, 25, are still young enough to become big-time pitchers; the time for that just had not arrived yet this postseason.
To fix the pitching problem, the Yankees have one goal: to overwhelm Lee with money the way they did Sabathia. It probably will work, too. If not, however, Plan B is far less obvious. No other top pitcher will be available on the free agent market, and so the Yankees would have to ship off some of their best young players to acquire a pitcher such as Zack Greinke in a trade.
*******
Verducci is spot on
This season exposed numerous systemic weaknesses in the team. But a few hardly seem “fixable”.
1. The aging of Jeter, A-Rod, the accompanying drop in performance and the albatross of long term contracts around the team’s neck.
2. Three more years of AJ Burnett.
3. Having to rely on a DH by committee to accommodate A-Rod, Posada and Jeter as opposed to having a legitimate offensive threat there full time, i.e. a Vlade Guerrero type.
yep cliff lee who has been played for 3 teams in 2 years does not want to look like a mercenary. he could have signed with philly but wanted to test the market then got traded to seattle for about 3 months and texas for 3 months will not want to really test free agency.
wow a lot of agents on this site………..
Totally agree:
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/1.....h-in-alcs/
If you look at at-bats from Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Curtis Granderson and some others, you see mistake pitches that they fouled off or missed in this game. Again, mistakes get missed, but they missed way too many to possibly get something going on the offensive side. Why is the major question. When the Yankees are out of their element, they struggle to find an identity as an offense. That identity is usually grinding out at-bats and making pitchers work harder than they’d like.
When playoff time comes around, however, you are less likely to run into pitchers who will labor and back themselves into a corner. Therein lies the problem for the Yankees offense. They have to find a different way to attack pitchers when they aren’t going to hurt themselves. Lewis didn’t hurt himself on Friday night and put the Yankees in a position where they had to force the issue.
There is nothing wrong with patience and it goes a long way toward the Yankees being the team they’ve been over the years. But they just might need another gear sometimes. They tried to be more aggressive against Lewis and it didn’t look like an approach with which they were comfortable.
I don’t see how the Rangers can sign Cliff Lee and give out all the raises they will have to give without roughly doubling their payroll….maybe they are in position to be able to do that but I kinda doubt it…..just glancing at Cot’s it looks like to me they will have to pay around 35 million in raises to those “cheap” players of theirs.
In watching the Rangers celebration after the game, Cliff Lee didn’t seem to get too caught up in it.
He’s probably anxious to do his best in the WS and quickly move on to the business at hand, signing the biggest contract he’ll ever sign in his life without the blistering summer heat of Texas.
If the Phillies are able to come back and win their series (which I’m not sure they will do) then it would be interesting to see a Halladay vs Lee game 1….pitting the pitcher the Phillies chose to pursue vs the pitcher they chose to let go……
Cliff Lee will be a New York Yankee!!!!!!! Big CC offer on the table right from the get go.
I’m sure Cliff Lee is more concerned with providing for his future and family than his image as a mercenary.
He’s 32 years old and may only have ONE real shot at a free agent pay off. He will go to the team that’s going to pay him.
Texas will bid aggressively, no doubt. But, I beleive that after losing out on the Lee trade, and then being eliminated by the team that he went to, compounded by the fact that no other available pitcher is even close to Lee’s talent, Cashman will go as high as necessary to outbid Texas.
Look for 6 years $150 million.
Most of this season was good and fun to watch. Something happened in September and I hope Cashman and the team learned from it.
If you decide to rest your team and settle for 2nd place this is what happens.
Even if all the other contenders in the league had bad Septembers it does not make it right for your team to play comfortably for the wild card.
I think they learn from that and I think they learn that relying on older guys and then resting them for a month isn’t exactly the way to charge into the post season despite what Theo might say.
There is good news with this loss though. I think the Yankees have better prospects in the trade market having not gone to another WS this year than they would have if they had gone to it and won it.
Perhaps other GM’s will deal with us again realizing they are not helping the defending WS champions.
I mean sure, Cash could go and sign Lee, Crawford and Werth and totally stack the team and then trade Swisher and Gardner for pitching, but I don’t think they’ll do that.
I think he’s going to try to strike a deal or two and change the complexion of this offense.
I don’t think Swisher and Gardner should ignore any trade rumors.
Swisher is a combustible player. I’ve said it on here before that I have seats on the 1st base line and I get a pretty close look at him. The guy is out of his mind. When the playoffs hit, he goes over the edge. He literally pumps himself up past the point of effectiveness. He swings wildly at every thing because in his mind he’s hitting a HR on every pitch.
The worst thing that happened in game 5 was he hit a HR. I’m afraid that the Yankees and Swisher will take that as a sign that he’s post season gold even though his other at bats were just sad.
As for Gardner, he is the most marketable guy we can deal. I think his late season struggles are all a product of his wrist/hand injury. We always give Jeter a pass when the wrist/hand injury comes into play but Gardner is getting roasted and that health issue is ignored.
We can trade him and probably get something good, but I’m not sure subtracting him from the lineup makes the 1-4 hitters better.
That’s the problem. 1-4. If Jeter has another season like this one and leads off all year, it’s a big problem. Tex has proven that his days of hitting for average and getting hits other than HR’s are gone. He looks like Giambi to me now. HR’s or walks and very prone to long slumps. Arod just didn’t look like Arod this year. I know he hit 30 HR’s and drove in a ton of runs, but as the season wore on his production wasn’t there. Swisher as our 2 hitter seemed to work in the regular season, but then in the post season he tries to be Hulk Hogan vs. the Iron Sheik and his production is lost.
Jeter should be given a chance in the spring to show he is better. If he struggles (and I think he will), he should be dropped for good in the order.
Cano has to be given the 3 spot. Tex needs to bat 5th.
I really think this team is going to look exactly the same next year save a few new pitchers.
That scares me because they have shown now this propensity for making mediocre opposing pitchers into Cy Young and tanking offensively as a unit.
There’s some kind of mentality that is prevalent on this team. Don Mattingly used to say during the late Torre years that this team has too many all stars, so every guy goes to the plate thinking “the next all star will save us” instead of focusing on their at bats.
All I know is this team is built around walks and HR’s and it’d be nice to see someone hit some doubles with men on base once in awhile.
Cliff Lee and his wife love NY. CC and Amber are their very good friends.
What exactly has Hughes regressed from…..this was his first year starting and he won 18 games……I don’t call that a slow regression. He had to play a bigger role in the playoffs than he should have because the guys that were supposed to fill that role failed to do their jobs. Hughes was supposed to be the 5th starter this season and get his feet wet in that role….not start Game 2 of the ALCS on the road….
Just catching up this morning –
1. MG – your post from 10:58 was a lot more eloquent in expressing what I was trying to late last night. I agree completely, except that I was only an infant when they lost to Brooklyn in ’55
You really have to enjoy the successes. I think the Yanks have given their fans a lot of that to enjoy over the years.
2. CB – Your post from 11:12 is on target. As they always are.
Trisha – true pinstriped blue October 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 am
If the person who knows how to get everyone’s personal information is lurking about, I’d like Ruby Tuesday’s please! And yes, I will pay for it. Keep posting moron. And then there were no more.
******************
Wow. Sam and Chad is this really tolerated at LoHud? To threaten blatantly and openly seek to pay for personal information on a participant here?
I have to agree with mernaloy’s post above (October 23rd, 2010 at 11:37 am). This can not be tolerated It’s one thing to disagree about baseball, but there should be zero tolerance for the above.
“Cano has to be given the 3 spot. Tex needs to bat 5th.”
Agreed and I think they need to do it from the first day of ST on. If they wait and do it later then it seems like a demotion to Teixera and thats not what it is….its just putting guys where they best fit.
Blake, I’m assuming Tom is referring to the 2nd half……………this board thinks differently about Phil than most others, or even pundits. Leaving me out of this, it’s hard to ignore his ERA in the 2nd half. His record? You know that he really should have a few less wins and a couple of more losses thanks to incredible run support. Verducci is just seeing what others have noticed………..Phil has 2 pitches and one of them, the cutter, gets killed a lot. No need to go into his inability to finish off hitters – that’s well known. Anyway, that’s the regression he’s talking about.
Yep – agreed on Cano.
The Yankees did not rely on a DH by committee this year.
Betsy,
24 years old, 18 wins, made the all star team…..some perspective is needed when people discuss Hughes. Its very rare for a pitcher his age to be a finished product.
That Hughes’ cutter gets killed a lot could not be further from the truth.
RSM – Lee has played for four teams in the last two years. He’s seen firsthand that teams use players as tools, and have no loyalty toward them. Can anyone fault him for going for what’s best for him and his family? Anything else he feels for CC’s friendship, and maybe the NY area, would just mean he signs a bit faster. But, the money will be there.
G.Love – Agreed, I don’t think Cash will go after Werth and Crawford; Lee, yes. That’s an interesting observation about Swish. I wouldn’t build my team around that, but as a complementary player that’s OK, I think. As far as trading him and/or Gardner – depends what the deal is. Both guys have a tremendous amount of value in their own way, depending on the other team; neither should be given away, or dealt just for the sake of change.
About Tex, I really think he was affected by several injuries – hand, wrist, broken toe. Having said that, there is still merit to thinking about swapping him and Cano in the order. It would give Cano a few more ABs, and by Alex batting 4th, Cano might see some better pitches than if Swish or someone else were batting behind him.
Got to run now. Later.
Unfortunately there will be not parade up the Canyon of Heroes this year. The Yankees had a good year although not up to their usual high standards. George would have been disappointed as his ‘win it all’ motto was the one and only standard.
Hopefully Hal and Brian will work hard to correct and provide new pieces to improve the team for next year. The people of New York deserve the best and the Yankees will do their best to get back on top.
After all with all that public funding I helped secure for that new palace they play in they better get back on top. My reputation is on the line.
I think the winter of Cash’s GM tenure with the Yankees is upon him.
Blake, I do think it’s unfair of Tom to lump Phil in with AJ and Javy; those two destroyed the staff.
Maybe it’s the expectations people had for Phil, but Neyer is basically down on him too. Recently he blogged about how Lewis had a much better year (which is very true) than Phil……..and for one game, now, he’d have to go with Lewis (which is fair). He then said stuff like Phil is younger and throws harder and will probably win more games than Lewis. You think? If Phil doesn’t win more games than Lewis (who is very good) in his career, then there’s an issue.
I don’t think anyone expected Phil to pitch like his first 6 starts, but he was 4.90 bad in the 2nd half……..that really is hard to ignore. You don’t expect a pitcher as highly ranked as Phil to pitch to a 5 ERA.
Using a know-nothing hack slug like Verducci to base or back your thoughts on players will only lead to heartache. You’d be just as well off using Heyman or Selena Roberts…..three of a kind.
Tex needs to bat 8th and stop waggling his bat around.
Benton, Arkansas is not all that far from Texas. Cliff Lee was born in Benton and pitches for the guys across the border. I’m sure that kids in Benton wear cowboy boots and wear cowboy hats. They probably eat barbecue and endure the Bible Belt and probably, except for some College football allegiances, could sidle on into Texas and blend in fairly easily.
Some people in NYC wear cowboy boots, like that guy in his underpants that always hangs out in Times Square strumming his guitar. There are plenty of barbecue places (like Virgil’s) in NYC. And I’m sure that there is a nice house somewhere in Purchase or Rye or across the river in North Jersey that would appeal to Lee. And it’s just so much less dusty here than in Texas.
Cashman takes Lee to dinner at one of the City’s perfect steakhouses. Or maybe they go to Jeremy’s Ale House at the Seaport and drink beer out of styrofoam cups. They talk numbers and are in the same place. Then the limo takes them to the Stadium and Cliff and Cash walk into a well lighted, deserted Great Hall at Gate 6 to see Cliff Lee’s banner already hanging from the rafters. “How’s that look, Cliff?” Cashman asks.
Then they walk onto the field to the pitcher’s mound and the scoreboard flashes to life and it’s Lee’s face in a Yankee cap and pinstripes and the stadium announcer’s voice comes over the PA and introduces Cliff Lee, followed by audio/video clips of Lou Gehrig’s farewell speech, the call on Don Larsen’s final out in the WS perfecto and Jeter’s farewell to Old Yankee Stadium. Crowd noise on a loop is piped in, “Let’s Go Yankees.”
Hal Steinbrenner walks onto the field with three crystal glasses and a bottle of some very old Cognac. He gets to the mound, pours two fingers into each, clinks the glasses and says to Lee, “How do you like your new office?”
‘Last Gasp Yankees’ = LGY ??………………………………Now dead meat.
Betsy
You do realize that all this crap you read and post on here is written to cater to people like you.
If we want to read that stuff which most do not we will on our own.
West Coast Yankee Fan October 22nd, 2010 at 11:51 pm
And so we have it. And all the Yankee fans who said all season that this team had weaknesses that would preclude it from going all the way were right along along.
=========================================
TheStraw October 22nd, 2010 at 11:54 pm
WCYF-
And if they had won it all, you would have said they were lucky. Hindsight is 20/20.
==========================================
West Coast Yankee Fan October 22nd, 2010 at 11:55 pm
trisha – true pinstriped blue October 22nd, 2010 at 11:52 pm
******************
Talk about someone who was totally wrong. So much for cheer leading, really bad song parodies and chicken.
===============================================
Doreen October 22nd, 2010 at 11:56 pm
WCYF -
Congratulations, you all win the prize.
=========================================
West Coast Yankee Fan October 22nd, 2010 at 11:59 pm
No one won Doreen – the Yankees lost and that sucks. But, it is important for those of you who call fans whiners, and haters, and there are many, to know that we actually knew what we were talking about.
===================================
TheStraw October 23rd, 2010 at 12:04 am
WCYF-
Many of those same posters ( can’t remember if you did) said the same last year. And were proven wrong. Can’t really predict baseball accurately.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
TheStraw … allow me!!!
Last year, 2009? West Coast nancy didn’t say then that the Yankees had “weaknesses.” (btw, what team doesn’t?) He actually declared IN JULY that the Yankees’ season was OVER and the Red Sox, who were ahead in the standings at the time, were CLEARLY A SUPERIOR TEAM and had the Yankees beaten.
Of course, guess which front runner was the first to jump on the bandwagon when the Yankees got hot about a month later?
It’s one thing to assess a team’s weaknesses. It’s an entirely different matter to revel in the team’s failures, and THAT is what this nincompoop is eager to do, year in and year out.
At various times THIS season, he has declared-
– Mo finished because of a 2.1 inning slump in May (he had just come off the DL and his control was off)
– Posada a .240 hitter
– Granderson a Cashman mistake
– Tex and ARod overpaid failures
– Gardner nothing more than a pinch runner
– CC not an ace, not as good as last season
– Hal Steinbrenner, Girardi, and Kevin Long incompetent or inefficient
– This list can go on indefinitely … you get the point.
Over this winter, he will declare that every contending AL team has gotten immensely better than the Yankees. And according to him, all the Yankees’ problems will be solved simply by their willingness (or not) to spend a lot more money than they already do.
LGY October 23rd, 2010 at 12:04 pm
The Yankees did not rely on a DH by committee this year.
*****************************
Really?
A-Rod/Jeter/Posada/Tex/Swisher started 67 games at DH.
“Tex needs to bat 8th and stop waggling his bat around.”
Well, he does need to stop waggling that bat. He’s got one of the ugliest swings I’ve ever seen on a pro. That’s why he goes into slumps and starts slow every year, IMO. Compared to Cano, Tex looks like he’s having a seizure when he swings.
LGY, are you suggesting that no one should ever post links on here?
There he is, the troll who posts under 20+ names and stalks and obsesses over sports bloggers. He has revealed personal information about others and threatened them. We get the point all right – that what he posted are not quotes at all – but out of context lies and distortions.
Yes really.
NJ got hurt and Cash traded for Berk at the deadline to help fill that hole.
The Yankees planned to haven a full time DH this season
Swisher is a combustible player. I’ve said it on here before that I have seats on the 1st base line and I get a pretty close look at him. The guy is out of his mind. When the playoffs hit, he goes over the edge. He literally pumps himself up past the point of effectiveness. He swings wildly at every thing because in his mind he’s hitting a HR on every pitch.
==========================================
Cash will purge him from the system, Jeter can’t stand him, he is a role player, Werth is a star.
The days of lightness in Yankeeland are over, as Swish will go the way of Melky, Damon and eventually Burnett.
No … just shining the light on you, nitwit.
Just like several posters HERE have done and will do.
BTW, wasn’t it YOU who was soliciting posters’ emails here?
Del frisco is good at Fillet Mignon, if you want a all around player (see Tex), Sparks is recommended. Peter Luger has legend on it’s side. If you want swisher type of production? See, Ruth Chris, Strip House and Ben Benson ,etc, etc….
There is no comparing Hughes to AJ and Vasquez….both in performance and what was expected of them this year.
No I was not soliciting posters emails here. I offered to provide information to someone who was concerned about personal information being revealed here. I offered to provide information on a known agitator who admitted to using multiple screen names. I said it openly and suggested they only do it if they had an anonymous e-mail address and felt comfortable.
Worried are you?
Blake, right – that part of it is stupid. He stated the point he was trying to make, though – that Phil and Joba’s issues are a problem of greater “concern” than AJ and Javy’s. That said, he did say at the end that both kids are young enough so that they still may become very good pitchers.
This bears repeating about West Coast nancy …
It’s one thing to assess a team’s weaknesses. It’s an entirely different matter to revel in the team’s failures, and THAT is what this nincompoop is eager to do, year in and year out.
Time will tell … you will all see for yourselves. And you will see how those who agree with him will be largely be “posters” from California also.
Coincidence?
Not.
Cashman gets a B for last off season. With Hindsight, C-.
Betsy
I’m not suggesting that. I’m just asking you to exercise a little Discretion with this Phil Hughes stuff.
I’ve defended you countless times on here but it has become painful to wade through these articles everyday that say the same.exact.thing
Worried? About you?
LMAO
How are Phil and Joba of greater concern than AJ is….AJ costs about 18 times more and had a worse year than both of them. Joba is a different discussion but I don’t see how Hughes is a concern at all when any reasonable person would consider his season a successful one.
I think too much is made of Phil’s 2nd half ERA. In his “bad” games, it’s not that he’s actually bad. He typically makes one or two mistakes at the wrong time that cost him. I think that’s more indicative of youth and inexperience. He must learn to be more precise with location in those big spots. That’s what makes Pettitte so effective.
More stalking here, a scary place.
At 16.5 AVV for the next three years, I see AJ as the biggest detriment to Yankees’ payroll flexibility.
About Tex, I really think he was affected by several injuries – hand, wrist, broken toe. Having said that, there is still merit to thinking about swapping him and Cano in the order.
====================
This is a given. Tex’ slumps are too much to endure and Robbie will bat 3rd next season.
I can see Tex dropped to as low as 6th if they make any trades of consequence or FA pickups.
Aldo -
That nitwit, WCYF, hates it when people are smart enough to expose him, good job. Too bad some of the regulars don’t regognize him for what he is.
Jesus….if the worst concern the yankees have is Phil Hughes, the future will be extremely bright for the team. Take a look at some of the early ERAs of Pettitte, Clemens, Greinke, Buchholz, Lee or Lester.
Catering to AJ ruined the rotation for the Yanks.
Pitch him game 5, use CC 3 times, only twice on 3 days rest. Maybe throw AJ once in game 5.
Andy should have had 2 starts, games 2 and 6, not Phil.
Looks like the obsessed stalker is upset as their predictions about the Yankees were proven totally wrong. Hence his eplosion of insanity this morning.
He predicted they would “easily” win the world series. That Jeter was in a minor slump and would hit .300. That Gardner would hit .300 steal 65 bases and that Teixeira would hit in the .290′s.
I’ve no time for him. He knows that if he pulls here what he has done elsewhere, stalk others, insult bloggers dead parents, hack others screen names, etc. that it won’t be tolerated.
Is Montero playing anywhere this winter?
This team will be back next year. I think there is about a 75% chance they land Lee so him and CC will be an absolute dominant 1-2 punch. Unbelievable there.
The lineup might need a little infusion of some life. I know that he probably isn’t ready defensively and won’t just come up to the majors and hit .330 like some expect but I’m hoping that if Montero has a good ST that he goes north with the team. I have always been in the let him develop in AAA camp but IMO this team needed a youthful infusion this series. The Rangers just had more life and outplayed them in nearly every facet. The Yanks can start this infusion at catcher next year and continue it as the real jewels of Cashman’s efforts start to become ready to contribute…
BIG AL,
Your recent post a few days ago, about Nick’s stalker being banned and the email response from Chad, coupled with your observations about West Coast nancy’s support for obvious trolls like Ruby Tuesday and others … that really said it all!
Well done!
Jesus….if the worst concern the yankees have is Phil Hughes, the future will be extremely bright for the team.
=============
This nonsense is driven by a select few(one) who are obsessed with the young master for whatever inane reasons they(she?) have and you know who you are.
A major problem is Burnett, who is an innate loser and will continue to drive the team down, unless he is released somehow or injured and out for the season(s).
Can someone get Pavano’s # to give to AJ for advise on pandering.
I don’t think the plan is for Montero to come North with the team. I’ve read and heard more than a few times that June or July is what they are thinking about. Maybe if he absolutely tears it up in Spring Training that could change but I doubt it. It seems as if the Yankees are committed to the grow slow strategy.
Be assured that there’s no place on the Yankee roster for Nick Johnson in 2011 and beyond. It seems a shame that he”ll even get a small share of postseason money when it comes time for distribution. Give him a case of Ballantine or Knickerbocker beer and tell him it’s been real.
West Coast Yankee Fan October 23rd, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Looks like the obsessed stalker is upset as their predictions about the Yankees were proven totally wrong.
I’ve no time for him.
—————————————-
No one here made predictions here, other than you, about the Yankees failing, which is nothing new for you … you do it every year.
As for the “no time” for me? You haven’t kept your word the first 2,864 times you said it … why should anyone believe you now?
AldotheApache October 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan October 22nd, 2010 at 11:51 pm
And so we have it. And all the Yankee fans who said all season that this team had weaknesses that would preclude it from going all the way were right along along.
=========================================
TheStraw October 22nd, 2010 at 11:54 pm
WCYF-
And if they had won it all, you would have said they were lucky. Hindsight is 20/20.
==========================================
West Coast Yankee Fan October 22nd, 2010 at 11:55 pm
trisha – true pinstriped blue October 22nd, 2010 at 11:52 pm
******************
Talk about someone who was totally wrong. So much for cheer leading, really bad song parodies and chicken.
===============================================
Doreen October 22nd, 2010 at 11:56 pm
WCYF -
Congratulations, you all win the prize.
=========================================
West Coast Yankee Fan October 22nd, 2010 at 11:59 pm
No one won Doreen – the Yankees lost and that sucks. But, it is important for those of you who call fans whiners, and haters, and there are many, to know that we actually knew what we were talking about.
===================================
TheStraw October 23rd, 2010 at 12:04 am
WCYF-
Many of those same posters ( can’t remember if you did) said the same last year. And were proven wrong. Can’t really predict baseball accurately.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
TheStraw … allow me!!!
Last year, 2009? West Coast nancy didn’t say then that the Yankees had “weaknesses.” (btw, what team doesn’t?) He actually declared IN JULY that the Yankees’ season was OVER and the Red Sox, who were ahead in the standings at the time, were CLEARLY A SUPERIOR TEAM and had the Yankees beaten.
Of course, guess which front runner was the first to jump on the bandwagon when the Yankees got hot about a month later?
It’s one thing to assess a team’s weaknesses. It’s an entirely different matter to revel in the team’s failures, and THAT is what this nincompoop is eager to do, year in and year out.
At various times THIS season, he has declared-
– Mo finished because of a 2.1 inning slump in May (he had just come off the DL and his control was off)
– Posada a .240 hitter
– Granderson a Cashman mistake
– Tex and ARod overpaid failures
– Gardner nothing more than a pinch runner
– CC not an ace, not as good as last season
– Hal Steinbrenner, Girardi, and Kevin Long incompetent or inefficient
– This list can go on indefinitely … you get the point.
Over this winter, he will declare that every contending AL team has gotten immensely better than the Yankees. And according to him, all the Yankees’ problems will be solved simply by their willingness (or not) to spend a lot more money than they already do.
====================================
Stuff like this from the guy (Aldo) who posts at BTB with more than 25 different handles ? Sicko stalker.
Of course people were making predictions that guys like Jeter, Tex, and Gardner were going to have huge years. We are all Yankee fans after all on a Yankees blog because we all enjoy talking about our team….. Well at least MOST of us are Yankee fans.
We all want the Yankees to win the World Series. They are our team. I wanted nothing more than to see Jeter hit .500 this postseason and silence the critics. And I know come early April next year I will be right back to cheering my heart out for this team.
but for now it is officially hockey season….. LETS GO BLUUUUESSSS!
.265/.342/.643
.270/.340/.710
one of these slash lines for 2010 belongs to shortstop who is young and had a great ALCS.
one of these slash lines for 2010 belongs to a future Hall of Famer with 5 rings who had an off year.
many of you believe the young shortstop won the series for the Rangers and would take him on the Yankees in a heartbeat. Many of the same believe the future Hall of Famer is over the hill and pathetic.
Maybe the Hall of Famer was playing through undisclosed injuries, maybe he had a bad year, maybe he’s just starting to decline. None of us know the truth and we won’t know until next year.
But the abuse that Derek Jeter takes on this blog is beyond comprehension for a player that has done more to rebuild the Yankees dynasty than any other player, including Mo.
(and, by the way, the lower slash line belongs to Jeter, he outhit Andrus this year even while having his worst year as a professional. If you get rid of him, who is the Yankees shortstop next year, an unproven rookie or second year player or retread from somewhere else?).
By the way, I think the real the reason Montero won’t start the season in the Bronx is that if he is added after May, he wouldn’t be eligible for salary arbitration until after the 2014 season.
MG, well said. I think Jeter bounces back next year….maybe not to 2009 numbers, but he’s going to be motivated for sure.
As soon as the mopes realize the game is the thing, not the final result of a WS victory or bust,you will be happier campers.
Maybe they just need to get a life or at least learn from their parents or their own mistakes of entitlement (for those born into the 1996 on, era of winning).
It is hard to shed, esp those of our parents era of true Dynasty years, but it can be done.
Who is younger?
1B: Moreland, Rangers
2B: Cano, Yankees
SS: Andrus, Rangers
3B: Young, Rangers (34 though, so not young)
RF: Swisher, Yankees
CF: Push, next year is the age 30 season for both Hamilton and Grandy
LF: Gardner, Yankees
3 for the Rangers
3 for the Yankees
1 push
Dammit forgot catcher
C: Molina, Rangers, but he is super old also.
Phil Hughes will be fine. This was his first full season as a starter at the big league level and he came through with an All Star caliber season. There’s every reason to believe he will continue to improve.
Same with Brett Gardner (to improve, that is). I predicted as a starter that he would hit .270-.280 and steal 50+ bases. He was exceeding that until he was hurt.
AJ NEEDS to come up with another pitch to use (change up?). As it stands right now, when he’s not getting his curve over consistently, batters just sit on his fastball. He has the entire winter to work on it.
I like Nova, based on his few starts this season. He’s an intriguing candidate for the 2011 rotation.
Everyone seems to think that Lee is the Yankees’ #1 priority. I think Texas will have something to say about that before it’s over, unless Lee WANTS to come to NY, like Tex did. I expect that Cashman will see what pitchers are available out there, in the event Lee gets away, but doesn’t he do that EVERY winter anyway?
For the lineup, I’d like to see them add someone for the top of the lineup. Crawford is a stud, but I’m not sure he’d be worth the kind of money they’ve been talking about ($13MM per?).
Deal With It October 23rd, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Stuff like this from the guy (Aldo) who posts at BTB with more than 25 different handles ? Sicko stalker.
===============================
Another West Coast nancy handle?
LGY, ok – I don’t disagree with you. Now that it’s the offseason, there won’t be so much to post anyway.
I see that Cash is going to get killed; I wonder if all GMs whose team don’t win or make it to the WS get killed. He can’t help it if most of his team underperformed this year, including Jeter, Tex and AJ.
LGY October 23rd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Who is younger?
1B: Moreland, Rangers
2B: Cano, Yankees
SS: Andrus, Rangers
3B: Young, Rangers (34 though, so not young)
RF: Swisher, Yankees
CF: Push, next year is the age 30 season for both Hamilton and Grandy
LF: Gardner, Yankees
3 for the Rangers
3 for the Yankees
1 push
——————————-
The Yankees need an infusion into that lineup. The team didn’t click all year and it was terribly evident in the ALCS. I don’t think they sign Crawford or Werth so they are going to need something else. Thanks for being your usual d-bag self though
.
Also Cruz and Swisher are a push. Both are going to be going on 31 next year. So actually the Rangers are still younger…. Not that it matters because that wasn’t my original point. You don’t get younger just for the paper numbers. I would just like some new enthusiasm. It doesn’t hurt to have a nice mix of vets like Jeter, Mo, and Posada with some young hungry guys.
MG, if Jeter wasn’t Jeter. I would have seriously considered going with Nunez and finding a defensive minded SS to fill that void while allocate those money in other areas of needs.
But Jeter is Jeter and he is coming back. It’s kind of moot to talk about it. The semi interesting question is how many years.
MG, I couldn’t agree more about Jeter. Take a look at the snarky, obnoxous nicknames – they make me sick. These same losers will be cheering Jeter when he gets his 3000th hit. Hypocrites. All players are human beings and all human beings age. Therefore, players all age. They shouldn’t be crucified for it ………and I don’t think he’s done anyway. I do think Po is nearly there.
Tyler, I don’t know if they need younger hitters – just hitters who do different things? Aside from last year, their offense has been found wanting. 2008 they weren’t good, esp. in the 2nd half. Their performances in the post-seasons prior speak for themselves. Kevin Long should work with all these guys.
I posted Frankie Piliere’s article about the offense – and I think he’s spot on.
Tyler
I think most of this the Rangers look young stuff is coming from the fact that Andrus had a great series and he is indeed very young.
Cashman deserves to be held to account. Only one off-season move, the acquisition of Granderson, can be considered successful. And the jury is still out on that one. His swing change happened in Texas in mid August – so he had one month of improved performance in September and October. He will have to keep that up next year. Vazquez and Johnson were disastrous moves and that isn’t hindsight. Many predicted that.
I don’t see Cash pursuing either Crawford or Werth…I think if a position player move is made then it will be via trade just as it was last year and the year before (Granderson and Swisher).
Betsy October 23rd, 2010 at 1:04 pm
LGY, ok – I don’t disagree with you. Now that it’s the offseason, there won’t be so much to post anyway.
I see that Cash is going to get killed; I wonder if all GMs whose team don’t win or make it to the WS get killed. He can’t help it if most of his team underperformed this year, including Jeter, Tex and AJ.
———————————————-
Betsy, good point. Those are each key guys in their success.
The question becomes, will Derek hit .270 again? Will AJ mount a comeback from his horrible season?
Tex had his usual 30+, 100+ season. He won’t hit .256 again. Then again, it’s not really his job to win batting titles. So long as his April slump doesn’t extend into May, June, July again.
I think Jeter we see this year is more indicative of Jeter we will see going forward. But it’s a simple assertion base on his age and his ABs this year. But like MG said, it remains to be seen.
LGY-
Andrus IMO was the difference in this series. The guy made things happen. I hope that Gardner can have such a big impact in upcoming postseasons. The potential is there but Andrus was the difference maker. Sorry about the d-bag stuff. Don’t usually do that on here. Just have a splitting headache right now. My b
This nonsense proves yet again that Ian O’Conner is a hack amongst hacks….
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5716297
Cashman has to be held accountable? He signed NJ as a backup when Damon got greedy – that didn’t work. Fine. I refuse to argue about Vasquez because there was NO NO NO reason to think he would fall apart physically. I don’t care how often it’s repeated – his year had nothing to do with being in the AL. Had he been ok physically he would have been a fine #4 – and that’s all the Yankees were looking for. I am completely (and have been) down with the Granderson trade – not once did I regret that move. He brought in Kerry Wood, who was remarkable……………one of the best trade deadline moves in recent years. Berkman did some good things. Cashman has to be held accountable for Posada nearing the end, for Jeter having a bad year, for Alex declining/not being healthy, for Tex pulling his disappearing act for 2 months? No – that is all on the players.
West Coast Yankee Fan October 23rd, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Cashman deserves to be held to account. Only one off-season move, the acquisition of Granderson, can be considered successful. And the jury is still out on that one. His swing change happened in Texas in mid August – so he had one month of improved performance in September and October. He will have to keep that up next year. Vazquez and Johnson were disastrous moves and that isn’t hindsight. Many predicted that.
———————————————
And it starts. As predicted only one short hour ago.
IMO, one reason we lost was the poor performance we got out of left and DH. I am not pining over Damon and Matsui, they are gone, but just as a means to explain our shortcomings this stands out.
In 2009, Damon and Matsui hit .296, scored 15 runs, hit five homers and knocked in 21 RBI’s in the postseason.
In 2010, Gardner and Thames (he got the most AB’s) combined to hit .220 average with five runs scored, two home runs and nine RBI’s.
Blake, I have avoided the media basically all day, so I won’t even bother to read it. Let me guess – the Yankees lost the ALCS so they have no future whatsoever?
Andrus and the Rangers played their best baseball of the season and for Andrus maybe the best baseball of his career in this series…..When that happens and you don’t match it, you lose.
Notice the stalker – obsessed.
tough to take it.
Thames was a terrific addition for us, period………he’s a plus for Cash IMO
Aldo, perhaps a few samples of your many, many handles ??
Tyler
Swish is going to be 30 next year not 31
Betsy,
He closed with this line…..”So they don’t just need to sign a better pitcher. They need to grow a stronger heart, too.”…..typical stuff from these guys.
Ian O’Connor is a hack. Yeah, the Yankees had no heart. They also had almost no pitching in this series, and batted .201 as a team. But I guess they only lost because they didn’t try hard enough.
Some of these writers are truly embarassing.
“ut for now it is officially hockey season….. LETS GO BLUUUUESSSS!’
And you have Sam Bradford
The Yanks problems are that they play station to station waiting for one of their boppers to deliver the 3 run homer. Well they waited all year and are still waiting. When you have a superstar at every spot in the lineup you never have to bunt or hit and run. But this has always been our nature and it will never change (remember the Dave Collins plan?). Now that we are in the post-George era of “fiscal responsibility” we will not go after Werth and Crawford as Gardner and Swisher are more economical.
Just thought of this, Jeter could be the last US born home grown positional superstar for awhile… Those guys normally don’t fall too far in the amateur draft. FWIW.
Along that line, I wish they allow teams to trade draft picks in the amateur draft, I really can’t see a reason not to.
I agree somewhat Betsy. Thames was an ok move as a part-time DH that hits left-handers. I think the major moves, starters and impact positions is where Cashman fell short. He also did a good job picking up Wood and even Berkman filled a role; albeit with limited success. All three may be gone. Thames is the only one I can see staying – maybe.
mick October 23rd, 2010 at 1:23 pm
“…Now that we are in the post-George era of “fiscal responsibility” we will not go after Werth and Crawford as Gardner and Swisher are more economical”.
******************
Superb point! This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
A stronger heart? Wow…………..that’s asinine. They didn’t lose because of a lack of heart; they lost because they were outplayed. I think O’Connor needs a stronger brain.
Sorry about the d-bag stuff. Don’t usually do that on here. Just have a splitting headache right now. My b
———————————————–
I thought you were joking when you called me a dbag
I know Girardi will get a new contract but he needs a new binder and set of statistics. The move that hurt the Yankees more than anything else was putting an additional runner on by IBB to get the matchup he wanted. It didn’t work in game 4, when walking Murphy to pitch to Molina resulted in a 3 run HR and it didn’t work last night, when Vlad drove in Hamilton as well as Moreland.
Girardi really has a poor grasp of the game for a guy that played so long in the bigs. Hamilton hurt the Yankees in the ALCS mostly on hanging breaking balls from CC and Andy. The single in the 1st inning last night was a pitch that leaked over the middle of the plate. He could have either told Hughes to jam him with the fastball or simply went to the bullpen, where the move to Robertson made little or no sense since Texas had worn him out the entire series. In a deciding game, in a key situation, you have to go to a better alternative whether it be Wood or CC (who said he was available for 40-50 pitches). Once CC made that declaration he should have been the 1st choice to replace Hughes, particularly in a tie game in a tough situation.
What would have happened if Cash left the 09 team intact?
Would we have repeated?
The Granderson deal was the reason the chips started falling.
If Gardner had been moved to center Damon and Matsui could have been brought back.
If we don’t repeat then purge the system, I can see that.
Why dismantle a winning team?
wonder what type of player a joba ..Swisher package would bring back
West Coast Yankee Fan October 23rd, 2010 at 12:22 pm
There he is, the troll who posts under 20+ names and stalks and obsesses over sports bloggers.
——————————————–
Deal With It October 23rd, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Stuff like this from the guy (Aldo) who posts at BTB with more than 25 different handles ? Sicko stalker.
——————————————–
West Coast Yankee Fan October 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Notice the stalker – obsessed.
——————————————–
Deal With It October 23rd, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Aldo, perhaps a few samples of your many, many handles ??
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Bear in mind, I’ve never addressed Deal With It …
Yeah, they’re two different posters.
Right.
“Superb point! This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.”
——————————–
The 800 pound gorilla in the room is that the Steinbrenners don’t spend enough money.
You have to be kidding me.
It is going to be a loooong winter on lohud with this kind of nonsense.
MG, the thing is as I heard yesterday – Cashman LOVES Girardi because Cashman is all about the #s……So, if we kill Joe, we have to kill Cash. Maybe it is time to wonder about our GM and his obsession with #s?
I think Robertson had faced Cruz 3 times – that’s it. Joe is obsessed with prior matchups – even with tiny sample sizes
The reason why we loss to an inferior team is simple !
1- Arod 4-26 in the ALCS
2- Tex 0=14
3 starters ERA 6.55
4- the rest of the team except Granderson , Berkman, and Cano DIDN”T HIT
Sorry but Arod and Tex should have feasted off Cobly Lewis and CJ Wilson .
how is Werth a huge upgrade over Swisher? He hasn’t hit in the 2010 postseason either (6-28, 2 HR, 5 RBI).
the Yankees can’t spend $300M in payroll, it just throws the whole sport completely out of whack. Crawford is going to get a huge contract, Werth a larger one that Swish, and Lee will be off the charts. The team was two games away from the WS this year and, except for Cano, no one really had a better year than projected and many players didn’t play to their lifetime stats. Had they obtained Lee from the Mariners we would be talking World Series opponent right now, we all know that.
Cash dropped 2 core players in Matsui and Damon in one fell swoop.
He then tinkered and brought in role players and basically started from scratch.
Even the pen was effected with Park.
He took a major gamble , don’t know if it was necessary, and lost.
Not the first time, won’t be the last.
“Why dismantle a winning team?”
———————–
As CB pointed out this morning, you do it because of how extremely difficult it is to repeat.
Teams that just stay intact year to year don’t have the same kind of success.
To repeat the Yankees had to make changes in order to defy the historical odds against them.
It wasn’t a gamble at all actually.
More of a gamble would have been to keep the same team intact.
This Ranger team would have given the 09 team a rough time as well if they played as well as they did this week…..just the same as this team may have faired better against the Angels team the Yankees beat last year. So much of this is matchups and who is playing the best at the right time.
Just an observation-
Countering someone calling you a stalker by going back through days and days of posts and reposting them, doesn’t exactly disprove their accusation.
Can you guys just end this already? It doesn’t improve blog atmosphere for anyone and makes you both look awful
MG October 23rd, 2010 at 10:58 am
if I survived (as an 8 year old) the Yankees losing the 1955 World Series…I survive this year.
if I survived the Yankees losing the 1960 World Series…I will survive this year.
if I survived the Yankees losing both the 1963 WS and 1964 WS…I will survive this year
if I survived the late ’60s, when the Yankees were awful…I will survive this year
if I survived the Yankees being swept by the Reds in 1976…I will survive this year
if I survived the mid to late ’80s and early ’90s, when the Yankees were once again awful…I will survive this year
the loss to the Mariners in ‘95? survived that one and will survive this one
the loss to the Indians in 97? same
the loss to the Dbacks in ‘01? same
the losses to the Angels in 02? no problem
the WS loss to the Marlins in 03? no problem
the loss to the Sox in ‘04? yup, survived
the losses to the Tigers and Indians? yup, still here
for anyone who wants to know why I’ve survived all of this:
1952 World Series Champion
1953 World Series Champion
1956 World Series Champion
1958 World Series Champion
1961 World Series Champion
1962 World Series Champion
1977 World Series Champion
1978 World Series Champion
1996 World Series Champion
1998 World Series Champion
1999 World Series Champion
2000 World Series Champion
2010 World Series Champion
No other team even comes close to this record and never will.
Winning the World Series doesn’t happen every year but my Yankee fandom isn’t dependent on that, it is lifelong and unconditional. You appreciate the victories, accept the losses (even if they hurt) and move on with your life.
I’m proud to be a Yankees fan, I wish many of you felt the same way, you would appreciate the game instead of just complaining and whining all of the time.
________________________________________________________________
This. Great post. Thank you!
Aceves was missed much more than could have been expected in the ALCS-it would have been his spot a couple of times in key situations that turned out badly for the Yankees.
Rather than fixing the offense, it is easier to fix the pitching to compensate for the aging offense. There is nothing that can be done about the offense. The biggest culprits are here for the long term and are not going anywhere. There is no way to acquire timely hitting.
Going into a series with CC, Lee, Andy pitching 6/7 games will cover a lot of warts. Of course, CC has to be better in the postseason than he has been. If the Phillies or Giants win the WS this year, it will be because of the studs in their rotation not their offense.
Things would look much better if our starters didn’t put us in such early holes.
Many post and read at the BTB site, me included. Your past track record is an open book for all to see and read. Your past BS is no secret, muliple handles, posting personal information about bloggers, insults and arguments galore. Who you think your trying to snow.
When will we stop talking about Damon and Matsui? They didn’t have good years this year. If they put up career numbers, it’d be a conversation worth having – but they didn’t. So it’s really a moot point.
MG, I love the way how you look at the game. Cogent analysis on G’s managing style in the TX series IMO.
Respect.
Erica, not days and days … just today.
And his name calling won’t end. It didn’t with Trisha. That’s just his style.
You’ll see.
“Cashman LOVES Girardi because Cashman is all about the #s……So, if we kill Joe, we have to kill Cash. Maybe it is time to wonder about our GM and his obsession with #s?”
Which was articulated in the Torre book.
West Coast Yankee Fan October 23rd, 2010 at 12:54 pm
By the way, I think the real the reason Montero won’t start the season in the Bronx is that if he is added after May, he wouldn’t be eligible for salary arbitration until after the 2014 season.
_________________________________________________________________
That didn’t stop them with Melancon, but in Montero’s case I would expect him to get some more schooling under Wynegar before they bring him up anyway. After arbitration works.
Put it this way LGY.
When we 3repeated in 98-00 there were no drastic changes , or at least changes that diminished the team to the point of losing.
Moves were made that improved the team.
Look at any dynasty team, the old Yanks, the Bulls even the Lakers of today, you don’t dump 2 core players that have won here and elsewhere for unknowns. This was the Cashman master plan and it failed.
Don’t believe in breaking up a winning team which is what Theo did and Cash followed.
I agree, losing Aceves and Marte both were big losses to the bullpen. Things just fell into place last season….that was a really good team but everything broke their way from the weather (Aybar thinking they were going up Everest instead of playing baseball)…to everything else. You have to play really well and catch the breaks to win the WS….they’ll have another crack at it next year and maybe things play out differently.
It’s not a question of the Steinbrenners not spending money. It’s what they spend relative to their ability to do so, Hal’s iron-clad budget of 2009 never existed before.
Cashmoney October 23rd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
MG, I love the way how you look at the game. Cogent analysis on G’s managing style in the TX series IMO.
Respect.
———————-
Cashmoney, thanks, and ditto, I look forward to reading your posts…
4time October 23rd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
“Cashman LOVES Girardi because Cashman is all about the #s……So, if we kill Joe, we have to kill Cash. Maybe it is time to wonder about our GM and his obsession with #s?”
Which was articulated in the Torre book.
_________________________________________________________________
The thing about Girardi and the numbers though is that he rationalizes some of his moves on the smallest of sample sizes, so you have got to wonder. Even the worst numbers stickler understands the fallacy of relying on small samples.
When will we stop talking about Damon and Matsui? They didn’t have good years this year. If they put up career numbers, it’d be a conversation worth having – but they didn’t. So it’s really a moot point.
==========================
How do you know what they would have done in NY with our short porch?
If a difference making player is available, the current ownership has shown fiscal responsibility is not the policy.
Werth and Crawford are good players, might be great additions and nice upgrades but not sure I would call them difference makers.
Deal With It October 23rd, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Many post and read at the BTB site, me included.
———————————————-
Right. And you’re not West Coast nancy.
And there REALLY is a Santa Claus.
I don’t know what goes on on some other blog. But whatever it is can you guys keep it there and stop dragging it here???
Again- I am asking you ALL very nicely.
mick,
Damon and Matsui were not even remotely close to core pieces of this team. If those guys are the core then you are basically saying all 9 guys in the lineup are the core.
They were old DH with bad knees and a “LF” who played the field like he was on ice skates.
If those guys were the core of the team, then the Yankees would have had SERIOUS problems.
Baseball and basketball are not comparable in anyway, so the Bulls and Lakers should not even be brought into the discussion.
Cashman attempted to build and improve around the REAL core of this team this offseason. He did not dismantle it.
Erica as you have noticed that is what the troll Aldo does and almost every single post he makes is directed at WCYF. The others are suck up attempts to try and win posters over here to accept his gibberish.
The 09 Phillies were very similar to the 2010 Rangers. Except that Phillies team had pedigree.
Our pitching wasn’t great in the WS from games 3-6, but the offense overcame it.
MG says:
October 23, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Aceves was missed much more than could have been expected in the ALCS-it would have been his spot a couple of times in key situations that turned out badly for the Yankees.
——
Good marte was also missed. I think the biggest issue involving pitching is that AJ and Javy were huge busts this year and that Andy went down in July. If you would have told any fan that Andy would have 11 wins in July and AJ and Javy wouldn’t have 11 by the end of the season, I don’t think they would have believed you. imagine if Andy hadn’t gotten hurt? He would probably have been up there with Phil and CC in wins. If AJ and Javy hadn’t sucked we probably wouldn’t have had to rely on a first year starter in an elimination game. No offense to Phil, the guy was amazing for us this year. But if aj and Javy had done what they were paid to do, we might be in a different situation.
I definitely think the Rangers kicked out butts in every aspect of this series, even if we had put up some more fight they probably still would have won.
I’m really trying to understand how Girardi didn’t use CC last night in the 5th inning after he had publicly declared himself ready to throw 40 pitches, which would have brought the game into the 7th inning for Wood and Mo.
The Yankees had just tied the game (and Berkman nearly gave them a lead), there’s a runner on 2nd, 2 out, and Hamilton at the plate. What a perfect time to bring in CC, who, except for the HR to Hamilton in game 1 has always handled him, and Guerrro, who is 3-17 lifetime.
Just a complete brain fade by Girardi in that spot. I was never a huge Billy Martin fan but he knew baseball strategy and once brought his closer, Sparky Lyle into an elimination game in the 4th inning against the Royals-Sparky threw 5+ innings and got the win.
Honestly, like Erica said no one cares.
Go back to BTB, whatever that is, to hash out your kindergarten feuds.
Right, point fingers at others. Ruby is Nancy, Joe is Nancy, Mary is Nancy and I am Nancy. Keep up the garbage. You only came to this site for one reason and you know it.
Werth and Crawford are good players, might be great additions and nice upgrades but not sure I would call them difference makers.
============================
They are better than Gardner and Swisher, only more expensive, give me a break.
Who would you take on your team if you were choosing up sides?
If the Yankees could get Kemp, Upton, or Rasmus for a package of prospects not involving Montero then I would have to consider that. Otherwise I’d leave the offense/defense alone besides promoting Montero. Werth and Crawford are both nearing the ends of their prime….
The primary thing they need is better health….that would actually help them more than almost any trade.
“They are better than Gardner and Swisher, only more expensive, give me a break.
Who would you take on your team if you were choosing up sides?”
————————
I would take Gardner and Swisher, because in the short term the upgrade is not enough to warrant to massive long term downgrade when you are stuck with 2 aging corner OF.
“I’m really trying to understand how Girardi didn’t use CC last night in the 5th inning after he had publicly declared himself ready to throw 40 pitches, which would have brought the game into the 7th inning for Wood and Mo.”
Because CC has never come in to pitch in the middle of an inning. IMHO, Joe should have gone to Wood, then let CC pitch two innings, and then to Mo. Bringing Robertson in that situation made no sense. I know some of you will disagree, but Rob failed hard this ALCS, and shouldn’t have been trusted in an elimination game. /2cents
pat October 23rd, 2010 at 1:45 pm
If a difference making player is available, the current ownership has shown fiscal responsibility is not the policy.
Werth and Crawford are good players, might be great additions and nice upgrades but not sure I would call them difference makers.
________________________________________________________________
Crawford IS a difference maker; the question is whether the price and length of contract is worth it. But as a lefty, Crawford would put up even better numbers in NYS. He is the best LF’er in baseball, would hit 25+ HR’s, and steal 60 bases. He had a 6.9WAR for a reason.
Deal With It October 23rd, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Erica as you have noticed that is what the troll Aldo does and almost every single post he makes is directed at WCYF. The others are suck up attempts to try and win posters over here to accept his gibberish.
*****************
I don’t care at all who is right or who is wrong.
I don’t want to see it.
Stop this nonsense please.
Go back to whatever blog you all came from and fight there
I’m really trying to understand how Girardi didn’t use CC last night in the 5th inning after he had publicly declared himself ready to throw 40 pitches, which would have brought the game into the 7th inning for Wood and Mo.
=======================
This was Andy’s game to start.
To avoid Lee you win the thing in 6 games.
The mistake was the rotation.
CC-Andy win 2 in Texas and I like our chances.
“Hal’s iron-clad budget of 2009 never existed before.”
First, it’s 2010.
Second, EVERY business, MLB teams included, has a budget. EVERY team has one. Including the Yankees. Theirs happens to be higher than every one else’s.
But that’s not enough to satisfy the front runners. According to them, last winter they needed to have signed Holliday to a $150MM contract when all they needed was a LFer who played defense and could bat ninth.
It never changes.
Personally, I wouldn’t have put CC in that situation with the game basically on the line.
I would have walked Hamilton and brought Wood in to blow away Vladdy.
Hughes was walking a thin line all night. This is an elimination game. Get your best non-Mo reliever in there, and go into the next inning with a tie game.
Then after Vladdy beats Hughes I was shocked to see Robertson trot out of the bullpen instead of Wood.
Robertson pitched with a man in scoring position and against arguably the Rangers 2nd best hitter with the Yankees down 2 runs.
Wood started the next inning with the bases empty, down 4 runs, and against the bottom of the lineup.
There is something seriously wrong with that.
Gregg Zaun did a pre and post game commentary out of Toronto. He was critical of Hughes, thought he not only did not make the pitches, but seemed afraid. About Girardi,
and no one knows what is really going on behind the scenes, but going to son, who had been ineffective, as opposed to CC, Mo, Andy or even Joba, did not make sense to him, or to me. I saw just what he did.
Sorry– going to Robertson, etc…
Anyone who says the Yankee players didn’t try their best is way off base, of course they did. There is almost unlimited pride and professionalism in that clubhouse.
Aside from Girardi’s poor managing, the players just collectively were terrible when it counted. Why? I don’t know. But the facts are brutal to see.
New York was outscored 38-19 by Texas, out hit .304 to .201 and had a 6.58 ERA to Texas’ 3.06. New York batted .151 (8 for 53) with runners in scoring position to .328 (19 for 58) for the Rangers, and while Texas swiped nine bases in 10 chances, New York stole just two.
Hughes was extremely nervous. You can’t fault him for that – he’s a young kid in an elimination game in the other team’s ballpark. His heart must have been pounding out of his chest.
Crawford is also nearly 30 and has a game very reliant on speed. Plus his lefty/righty splits are pretty stark…not sure they need what he would provide badly enough to spend what it would take to get him.
“He had a 6.9WAR for a reason.”
———————————
Crawford only had a 4.8 WAR on baseball reference.
And by the metric you are using to advance your point, fangraphs WAR, Gardner was the better defensive LF in baseball.
So your point that Crawford is the best defensive LF runs counter to your point about his WAR.
whether it was CC or Wood in the 5th last night we all agree that Girardi didn’t make the right move.
It would have been CC if I’m the manager because I want my best against their best and I don’t think bringing in a veteran, All Star pitcher in the middle of an inning is a concern, CC has pitched in every conceivable situation and knows how to handle it. I also don’t want to put another runner on base in a tie game, that is just a lousy move which was proven more than once in the series.
You can complain about the offense all you want but the only game they really blew was Game 4. Lewis and Lee just made the Yankees look silly in their starts and the Yankees couldn’t capitalize on Tommy Hunter and Derek Holland. A lot of people aren’t happy with Ian Kinsler but hes right: the Yankees had no business winning the first game and probably should have been swept.
As for the team itself, not a lot of changes should be made. The Yankees should really zero in on Adam Dunn and try to convince him to DH. They have to account for Posada, Jeter, and to a lesser extent Rodriguez getting older. You’re not going to get the 40HR production from A-Rod you’re accustomed to. Go get Dunn and add a big bat to the line up.
On the other side of the ball they need to either sign Lee or create a package surrounding Gardner and Joba to get an above average starter. Burnett is a wild card and while I think Andy comes back it isn’t a sure thing.
mick
Budget was the issue not who I would take.
I just don’t see Werth and Crawford to be blank check players the way CC was or Lee could be.
I watched a lot of Rays games and a lot of Yankee games this season and Crawford is no longer significantly better than Gardner defensively. Crawford is still very good…probably the best LFer defensively in baseball but Brett has closed the gap IMO…..when you add to the equation Gardner’s willingness and ability to also play CF then that actually make him more valuable on that side of the ball.
A payroll of $65M just won’t cut it for Texas in 2011 as they WILL find out sooner than later. Props to them for simply playing better than the Yankees but the glory will turn into reality when arbitration comes calling.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....ngers.html
If Cashman has a plan that includes Crawford in LF and at the top of the lineup, I’m OK with it.
I just don’t think he’s worth the money he’s going to demand for the impact he will have. as everything stands right now, over the players they currently have.
That is subject to change, of course, if a Cashman trade changes the composition of the lineup, and opens up a spot in the outfield for him.
Crawford and Gardner are not on the same level, no matter how one wants to spin metrics and stats.
#ConcernedCitizen October 23rd, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Hughes was extremely nervous. You can?t fault him for that ? he?s a young kid in an elimination game in the other team?s ballpark. His heart must have been pounding out of his chest.
______________________
No doubt.
But the fact that the offense didn’t show up and left him no room for error certainly didn’t help matters.
“A payroll of $65M just won’t cut it for Texas in 2011 as they WILL find out sooner than later. Props to them for simply playing better than the Yankees but the glory will turn into reality when arbitration comes calling.”
Just roughly looking at the numbers…..Texas will nearly have to double there 2010 payroll to both sign Cliff Lee and give out all their raises that are due. I’m not sure if its even possible for them to do that.
MG/CC-
I agree with both of you regarding the mystery of Joe’s thought process with respect to not using the best available pitcher in an elimination game.
In several previous appearances Robertson had been erratic. He is a SO type guy but he had not been effective in recent samples. Joe did not manage with a sense of urgency IMO.
That book of his sometimes makes him too clever by half.
One more point about the so-called “iron-clad” budget of Hal’s …
They were ready to pull the trigger on the mid-season trade for Lee, so obviously the budget wasn’t that much of an issue.
Well, here is what they think of girardi down in texas….
http://www.dallasnews.com/shar.....e7aee.html
I doubt that it will be a ‘money is no object’ off season. As Hal showed last year there is a budget and you won’t be able to afford all the ‘new toys’ that everyone seems to want.
Crawford only had a 4.8 WAR on baseball reference.
And by the metric you are using to advance your point, fangraphs WAR, Gardner was the better defensive LF in baseball.
So your point that Crawford is the best defensive LF runs counter to your point about his WAR.
_________________________________________________________________
Not that I am married to defensive metrics, but Crawford has a LF UZR of 21+ as a *9* year total. Gardner’s UZR is unreliable as a metric in less than a 3 year sample size. If you actually see them live as much as I do, no metric will convince you that Gardner can even approach Crawford’s defensive abilities, and Crawford is far better offensive player. Gardner wins in terms of salary, and that is all. He is a nice little player, but he is not nor will he ever be Carl Crawford. However, I would agree that paying Crawford the prohibitive amount he would demand might not be a fiscally sound move by the Yankees over the length of the contract.
Things I can see happening this off season.
1. resigning of MO and Jeet
2. Signing of lee
3. looking for bp helps in terms of a EIG guy and a loogy
4. a capable offensive infielder who can fill in for Arod.Jeet and occasionally spell Cano
5. a LH DH with high OPS
6. a fourth outfielder, preferable a thamesque player who can play D
I don’t see either Werth and Crawford as a priority
Count me as one who only wants one new ‘toy’ for next year-Cliff Lee. He was born to carry on the tradition of great Yankees lefties like Whitey Ford, Lefty Gomez, and Andy Pettitte. The Yankees can make some moves in trade to pick up cost controlled players using some of the depth of the farm system that will help the team in the field-the one big upgrade needed, whether it be from a player like Nunez or not, is a backup SS/3B who plays good defense and has some pop in his bat, Pena just isn’t the answer with both Jeter and Arod probably needing 30-40 games off in the field each season.
UZR are generally more reliable in a five sample if the player are in their relative primes.
sportsguy33
Isn’t it crazy that the 2010 ALCS may have swung on Seattle picking the wrong prospect for its Cliff Lee trade?
Buster_ESPN
No question; that’s what the Yankees feared most of all, to see him in October. The NYY-Texas bidding war could be epic.
3. looking for bp helps in terms of a EIG guy and a loogy
Re-sign Wood. LOOGY could be Brian Shouse.
4. a capable offensive infielder who can fill in for Arod.Jeet and occasionally spell Cano
Felipe Lopez
5. a LH DH with high OPS
Jim Thome. Branyan as a cheaper alternative
6. a fourth outfielder, preferable a thamesque player who can play D
Jeff Francouer
“Not that I am married to defensive metrics, but Crawford has a LF UZR of 21+ as a *9* year total. Gardner’s UZR is unreliable as a metric in less than a 3 year sample size. If you actually see them live as much as I do, no metric will convince you that Gardner can even approach Crawford’s defensive abilities, and Crawford is far better offensive player.”
———————————-
Who is arguing offensively?
If the metric is unreliable in less than a 3 year sample, then why are you using Crawford’s WAR for this one season to advance your point?
No offense to you, but Gardner certainly approaches Crawford’s defensive abilities as is evidenced by both metrics and scouting reports.
How you personally evaluate their defensive abilities based on how many times you have seen them live is a very weak point in the discussion.
How do you know that I haven’t seen them live more than you?
blake October 23rd, 2010 at 2:03 pm
I watched a lot of Rays games and a lot of Yankee games this season and Crawford is no longer significantly better than Gardner defensively. Crawford is still very good…probably the best LFer defensively in baseball but Brett has closed the gap IMO…..when you add to the equation Gardner’s willingness and ability to also play CF then that actually make him more valuable on that side of the ball.
____________________________________________________________
If you watched them live, I am not sure how you can compare them. I agree Gardner has improved, and he is certainly a good left fielder. However, Gardner’s CF ability is not comparable to his LF defense. Although, I agree the fact that he plays CF at all elevates Gardner’s value in the OF, the presence of Granderson (a better defensive CF than Gardner), and Crawford’s far superior bat would devalue Gardner. However, I doubt we sign Crawford b/c of the contract.
“Crawford and Gardner are not on the same level, no matter how one wants to spin metrics and stats.”
—————————————-
Offensively or defensively?
Let’s not lay it all on the hitting and Hughes.
In 2010 Sabathia’s post-season ERA rose from 1.98 to 5.63, A.J Burnett’s from 5.27 to 7.50 and Boone Logan had a 10.80 ERA.
Even the Yankees can’t afford to spend $15-20 million on every position. You need some cost controlled players to offset big contracts elsewhere on the diamond.
Crawford is an all around better player than Gardner, but the difference isn’t vast enough to make the huge difference in pay worth it. Especially given the fact it would hinder the ability to spend in other areas.
Remember, assuming Jeter, Mo, and maybe Pettitte are back, and Cash can sign Lee, there is really no more room to add significant payroll.
Also, for all you guys that want an expensive DH…What do you plan to do with Posada? More importantly, they have an aging Alex Rodriguez for 7 more years. He will not hold up playing 3rd base everyday into his forties. If he’s not your future DH, do you think the Yankees plan on paying him $30 million a year to be a pinch hitter??
LGY October 23rd, 2010 at 2:22 pm
“Crawford and Gardner are not on the same level, no matter how one wants to spin metrics and stats.”
—————————————-
Offensively or defensively?
*********************
All around. The money is the deciding factor I’m sure, but all things being equal between the lines. I doubt there is a GM in baseball that wouldn’t take Crawford over Gardner.
ET, good candidates for those role.
It will be interesting to see who comprises the 40-man roster prior to spring training.
Many changes abound.
http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....p?c_id=nyy
CLIFF LEE loves Hamilton and loves his teammates in Texas. The Yankees wish him the best but it is time we PARTED WAYS!!!!
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
“All around. The money is the deciding factor I’m sure, but all things being equal between the lines. I doubt there is a GM in baseball that wouldn’t take Crawford over Gardner.”
———————————-
Who exactly is arguing otherwise?
I think a lot of folks are forgetting, the deal with the Braves that brought us Javy, also brought us Logan, and that was a positive.
Anyone looking at Javy’s record, a .500 pitcher, should not have expected more than a .500 performance. What we got was less, but, I still like Javy as a ballplayer, he didn’t get it done, but, it was not from a lack of effort or heart.
Javy was in his walk year, why would he not want to put up a second season of good numbers, similar to last year in Atlanta.
It happens, just look at the season the team as a whole had, way off from last year, so Javy was a small part of the teams problems.
It’s now up to the owners, and Cashman, to put a better plan in place for next season.
They say the definition of insanity is to repeat the same thing over and over, and expect different results. I don’t think Cashman is crazy, so I do expect better moves this winter.
3. looking for bp helps in terms of a EIG guy and a loogy
Re-sign Wood. LOOGY could be Brian Shouse.
4. a capable offensive infielder who can fill in for Arod.Jeet and occasionally spell Cano
Felipe Lopez
5. a LH DH with high OPS
Jim Thome. Branyan as a cheaper alternative
6. a fourth outfielder, preferable a thamesque player who can play D
Jeff Francouer
—————————–
Love those suggestions.
“Although, I agree the fact that he plays CF at all elevates Gardner’s value in the OF, the presence of Granderson (a better defensive CF than Gardner)”
——————————–
Granderson’s 3 year UZR sample in CF which you said is reliable says Granderson is not a good CF.
I am not arguing this point, just pointing out your contradicting views in this subject.
pat October 23rd, 2010 at 2:02 pm
mick
Budget was the issue not who I would take.
=============================
In building this dynasty when was budget ever an issue?
If it is now in the post-George era then we will continue to settle for lesser players, not the players we really want.
We will be like every other team with money constraints and there will be parity such as what a salary cap would bring and Yankee haters across the globe will rejoice.
BIG AL October 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm
I think a lot of folks are forgetting, the deal with the Braves that brought us Javy, also brought us Logan, and that was a positive.
***************
Not when it counted. Boone Logan had a 10.80 ERA in the playoffs.
LGY October 23rd, 2010 at 2:27 pm
“All around. The money is the deciding factor I’m sure, but all things being equal between the lines. I doubt there is a GM in baseball that wouldn’t take Crawford over Gardner.”
———————————-
Who exactly is arguing otherwise?
******************
You asked me a question – I answered it.
You asked me a question – I answered it.
————————-
I don’t get it. You said Crawford is better no matter how you spin the stats. If no one is arguing otherwise are you talking to yourself?
Who is arguing offensively?
If the metric is unreliable in less than a 3 year sample, then why are you using Crawford’s WAR for this one season to advance your point?
No offense to you, but Gardner certainly approaches Crawford’s defensive abilities as is evidenced by both metrics and scouting reports.
How you personally evaluate their defensive abilities based on how many times you have seen them live is a very weak point in the discussion.
How do you know that I haven’t seen them live more than you?
____________________________________________________
No offense to you either, but Crawford’s WAR blew Gardner’s away last year as well, and was only under 4 in his injury-riddled seasons. If you want to argue some other point, have at it, but as far as ability, Crawford gets better jumps, he is more athletic, and he covers more ground than Gardner. It is not debatable. Again, you can argue cost, and that is a debate, but not ability.
As for scouting reports, whose you are relying on? Your own? If you actually have seen them play comparatively on the same field over multiple games a year, you too would be able to see Crawford’s superiority. Again, no disrespect intended. But forgetting perception for a moment, the numbers support Crawford as the superior player in all facets of the game.
West Coast Yankee Fan October 23rd, 2010 at 2:34 pm
BIG AL October 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm
I think a lot of folks are forgetting, the deal with the Braves that brought us Javy, also brought us Logan, and that was a positive.
***************
Not when it counted. Boone Logan had a 10.80 ERA in the playoffs.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
The epitome of a front running fair weather fan.
Boone Logan was one of the most pleasant surprises for the Yankees this season.
Spouting small sample statistics doesn’t change that, even if it was at a critical time.
Logan counted all season while pitching to get the Yankees into the PS.
By your terms, CC was not worth it, Hughes was not worth it, D-Rob was not worth it, and so on.
But then again, the vast majority of your posts indicate the Yankees as a team, are not worth it.
Perhaps if you open your eyes and look at the entire picture, you’d understand Logan was a positive in that trade.
We were outmanaged and out-thought.
We took an advantage and did not use it.
Advantage: No Lee till game 3.
WE HAD TO TAKE 2 IN TEXAS TO NEGATE LEE IN GAME 3—throw AJ in game 3, he and Hughes should have only pitched 1 game each.
Andy should not have been saved til game 7 in a desperation game. That was CC’s game.
Burnett cost us this series as ,once again, he was catered to by Girardi/Cashman.
There were posts comparing Gardner to Crawford, metrics, etc.
I didn’t say Logan didn’t do a good job during the season. But when it counted, when it was on the line, he failed. That’s an observation rooted in fact.
Ok, except OBP this year and walk rates. But based on Gardner’s BABIP, I would expect similar numbers overall next year, and Crawford has superior SLG and speed to burn.
Vaxquez and Johnson killed them. Would have been much better off bringing back matsui or Damon to dh but hey we all know that.
“No offense to you either, but Crawford’s WAR blew Gardner’s away last year as well, and was only under 4 in his injury-riddled seasons. If you want to argue some other point, have at it, but as far as ability, Crawford gets better jumps, he is more athletic, and he covers more ground than Gardner. It is not debatable. Again, you can argue cost, and that is a debate, but not ability.
As for scouting reports, whose you are relying on? Your own? If you actually have seen them play comparatively on the same field over multiple games a year, you too would be able to see Crawford’s superiority. Again, no disrespect intended. But forgetting perception for a moment, the numbers support Crawford as the superior player in all facets of the game.”
————————————————–
How is it not debatable?
Are you saying the because you say Crawford is not only better but far better defensively, that is the end of the discussion?
Actually the numbers do not support Crawford being better than Gardner this year defensively.
In every defensive metric Gardner outperformed Crawford this season.
Again, I am not arguing offensively, but there is basically without a doubt a discussion in terms of their defensive ability based on how each of them performed this season.
I never said getting Logan was a bad deal. But as any Yankee fan knows, the goal is to win it all. And falling short in the post-season is worth observing. That’s all. He was not good when it counted. I’m sure he would be the first to admit that.
BIG AL October 23rd, 2010 at 2:39 pm
Logan counted all season while pitching to get the Yankees into the PS.
By your terms, CC was not worth it, Hughes was not worth it, D-Rob was not worth it, and so on.
But then again, the vast majority of your posts indicate the Yankees as a team, are not worth it.
Perhaps if you open your eyes and look at the entire picture, you’d understand Logan was a positive in that trade.
——————————————————-
To use his own term when he sees someone ragging on the Yankees …
Superb post!
CC- 3 starts, Andy-2,Phil/AJ 1 each
Why cant anyone see that?
mick -
I understand folks are angry at AJ for the season he had, but, it was not AJ that cost the Yankees this series, it was poor hitting, and poor pitching by the majoity of SP. The only SP to do well was Andy. CC had a better 2nd game, but not a typical CC game. Had it not been for the huge come back in game 1, CC would have taken that loss. This was a team loss, not any one players fault, IMO.
Jeter’s 3000th hit (or, A-Rod’s potential 700th HR) cannot turn me on.
Team win is the most important.
Cashman’d better do a nicer job this offseason.
LGY October 23rd, 2010 at 2:32 pm
“Although, I agree the fact that he plays CF at all elevates Gardner’s value in the OF, the presence of Granderson (a better defensive CF than Gardner)”
——————————–
Granderson’s 3 year UZR sample in CF which you said is reliable says Granderson is not a good CF.
I am not arguing this point, just pointing out your contradiction.
____________________________________________________________
Well, I myself stated that UZR is somewhat unreliable. What is your point? Are you arguing that Gardner is a better CF than Granderson?
Let’s simplify this debate
Crawford is a 20-HR hitter, probably add a few as he abuses the RF pole. So right away, pitchers fear him more than a slap hitter like Gardner. One mistake, the ball is in the seats.
He is also a contact hitter, something we desperately need as this is a OBP/K/HR predicated offense. He may not have the OBP of Gardner, but he hits .300. Hitting .300 in this lineup will lead him to having an excellent RBI total. It will also help us in the big spots against good control pitchers. Crawford won’t stare at strike 3s down the middle.
His arm is significantly better. Defense is debateable, arm is not.
Crawford is a better player. He provides Gardner’s speed and D, and can actually hit and hit for power/average. Thus, he is better than Gardner considering he has Gardner’s best tools plus a tool Gardner doesn’t have.
Later folks.
“His arm is significantly better. Defense is debateable, arm is not.”
———————————-
Carl Crawford had 7 OF assists this season.
Brett Gardner had 12 OF assists this season.
“CC- 3 starts, Andy-2,Phil/AJ 1 each
Why cant anyone see that?”
Make the debate moot next year
CC/Lee/Andy 6 times in a series
Cliff Lee loves NY, NYC, CC and Amber. Not cows, cactus and cowboys.
Actually I would have been happy with AJ’s outing, had Girardi removed him after he gave up the hit to Vlad, as Girardi should have done. However, AJ’s inability to be a #2 starter in the ALCS, left that hole for Hughes to prematurely fill.
Splitting hairs between LF defense doesn’t warrant the kind of contract Crawford will command. They are both very good defensively….which is better doesn’t factor into the decision making in this case.
Its all about cost and Gardner provides a lite version of what Crawford does for a fraction of the money….if they were going to replace Gardner then it needs to be for something they are in more need of….such as right handed power.
Holliday would have made much more sense than Crawford because he fills their needs better and because he could have helped them this year. If they didn’t upgrade from Gardner last year when he was an unknown…I have a hard time believing they will after he’s proven he can be a productive player….(unless a deal for a young outfielder with superstar potential came along that made sense for both sides).
AL
It all starts with pitching, you know that.
If Andy pitched the way he did in game 3, IN GAME 2, we would have won that game.
Do you really think Texas would have come back from that?
So we lose game 3, so what? They placed too much emphasis on that and played into Texas hands by making it a MUST game and wasting Andy. Waste AJ or Hughes, either of which I would have sacrifuced in games 3 and 5.
Last night was Andy’s game , our #2 starter NOT HUGHES. If he loses , at least we have a game 7. and CC would be on 3 days rest. The hitting aspect is overrated, remember the 60 Pirates? Whitey should have started 3 times , case closed.
The fact that nobody is arguing this with me means I must be right.
Its all about cost and Gardner provides a lite version of what Crawford does for a fraction of the money….if they were going to replace Gardner then it needs to be for something they are in more need of….such as right handed power.
========================
Damn. Is Gardner 1/2 the player Crawford is. I doubt it. What if he hits 250 next year. Think long term. Gardy is not a proven commodity. He is a novive compared to Crawford body of work. This is a new ownership problem Hal is the new owner. George played it differently and we will prob not get the results he got.
novice
Carl Crawford is a better defensive player than Gardner. Yankee conceit doesn’t change that fact.
Anyway, this is a circular discussion and I am out to eat some spicy hot food to drown my sorrows. Enjoy.
“George played it differently and we will prob not get the results he got.”
—————————————
You mean the results he got when he was suspended from baseball or the results we got from 2001-2008 when he spent wildly?
I hope we get as many championships in the same time period as we got with George.
mick October 23rd, 2010 at 2:52 pm
AL
It all starts with pitching, you know that.
If Andy pitched the way he did in game 3, IN GAME 2, we would have won that game.
Do you really think Texas would have come back from that?
So we lose game 3, so what? They placed too much emphasis on that and played into Texas hands by making it a MUST game and wasting Andy. Waste AJ or Hughes, either of which I would have sacrifuced in games 3 and 5.
Last night was Andy’s game , our #2 starter NOT HUGHES. If he loses , at least we have a game 7. and CC would be on 3 days rest. The hitting aspect is overrated, remember the 60 Pirates? Whitey should have started 3 times , case closed.
The fact that nobody is arguing this with me means I must be right.
___________________________________________________________
Based on Hughes’ numbers, Yanks obviously didn’t want Hughes pitching in NYS vs. Texas. I’m out of here.
Mick,
They aren’t going to have a 250 million dollar payroll….they just aren’t and they will prioritize pitching. Now if they lose out on Lee and the trade market for pitching doesn’t pan out then maybe they consider Crawford but spending 100 million bucks on him isn’t the best allocation of their resources IMO.
Carl Crawford is a better defensive player than Gardner. Yankee conceit doesn’t change that fact.
————————————-
This is a laughable use of the word fact.
If you can’t have a discussion, there is no reason to result to insults.
blake
why are they managing this team as a small market team?
this isn’t a drastic change from their past way of doing things?
Before I go, what do OF assists have to do with anything? Aside from the fact that runners might run less on Crawford’s arm vs. Gardner’s, what other contexts do we have for evaluating the relevance of OF assists to defense?
Crawford is only better than Gardner in the power dept. Everything else is debatable.
BA? Gardner had a thumb/wrist problem in the second half. He hit .277 with what amounts to a very debilitating injury to a hitter. (I’d like to see how Crawford would have done with the same impairment).
The only thing keeping Gardner from hitting .300 was 11 basehits.
11 basehits.
Like someone said earlier, Gardner closed the gap with his break out year between Crawford and everybody else in LF.
You’ve got to realize that Gardner is on the upswing. I can’t see Crawford getting any better than his contract year and even if he did, it wouldn’t be that much better than his numbers this year.
Outside of BA and power, Gardner was very respectable in every other offensive category.
You people are selling Gardner short. He is getting into his prime and his best years are just ahead and they make you doubters look stupid.
LGY October 23rd, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Carl Crawford is a better defensive player than Gardner. Yankee conceit doesn’t change that fact.
————————————-
This is a laughable use of the word fact.
If you can’t have a discussion, there is no reason to result to insults.
____________________________________________________________
I absolutely had no intention of insulting you, and if I did so I apologize.
Even if we agree that Crawford is a better defender than Gardner, LF defense isn’t that significant when they are both good. Manny Rameirez’s defense vs Crawford’s is significant…..Gardner’s vs Crawford’s isn’t. This isn’t C, SS, 2B, or CF. Crawford is a better player than Gardner….maybe even a much better player than Gardner but the skill sets they bring to the table are similar and Gardner made $400,000 bucks this year…..
also Crawford does not hit LH pitching very well….
“they’ll make you doubters look stupid.”
So true that I had to say it again.
mick,
small market? they have the highest payroll in the sport by a considerable amount and I’m sure they are tired of giving money away to other teams via the luxury tax.
Crawford was also “hurt” all year. Please don’t use injury as an excuse. As for Gardner getting better. Let’s hope he does. I am rooting for the guy, but he is 27 and Crawford is 29. It is not as if Gardner is some spring chicken. We are not talking about Slade Heathcott or Eladio Moronta improving here. But if Gardner is our LF next year and improves, I am all for it. However, he is no Carl Crawford. The comparisons are ludicrous. However, again if you want to argue cost and whether we can do without Crawford, and I agree contact hitting is a problem on this team, than that is a relevant argument. Later.
New post… ->
blake
we’re not talking fiscal resposibility here, we’re talking getting the players you need to win a title. with creative financing and freeing salaries we can increase the payroll by a slight margin and get the players we really want. there is no doubt we would want crawford over gardy and wwerth over swisher if all things were equal.
jerkface brings this fact up all the time but Gardner also had the most balls called strikes against him than anybody else in baseball this year.
A hand injury, umpires killing him, his first full year and he still puts up the year he did.
He is going to be one of the best baseball players in the coming years. The only thing is if he will be doing it for the Yankees or some other team (like some of you people would like to see.)
The Yankees will be looking even more older and slower without Gardner. They’ve been exposed by a more agile and younger Rangers team. Is that the road you want to the team go down?
Someone on here called Crawford a 20HR hitter. He has never hit 20HR in his career.