The morning after
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Podcast on Oct 23, 2010 
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Derek Jeter never stood up. He just sat right in front of his locker in the far corner of the visiting clubhouse in Arlington and talked about what it felt like to lose a series that went so terribly wrong.
“It’s not something that you cope with easily,” he said. “It’s a feeling that stays with you for a long time. We put a lot of hard work and effort into this season. When you fall short of your goal, it’s tough to take. It’s not something that you get over tomorrow. It takes quite some time.”
The Yankees clubhouse was quiet last night. There was no yelling or screaming. Most of the noise was made by massive groups of writers and reporters shuttling from one locker to the next.
Andy Pettitte hugged A.J. Burnett. Lance Berkman hugged Kevin Long. All of the bullpen guys seemed to say something to Kerry Wood.
In the days and months to come, there will be plenty of questions about what comes next. How will the Yankees attack the free agent market? How many of their own players will they re-sign? Will Pettitte came back for one more year?
There are plenty of questions, but last night there was only a baseball season coming to an end.
“I understand the question, but you have to understand my point of view,” Jeter said. “My point of view is that we were trying to win this game, and we just lost. It would be unfair for me to be thinking about (the offseason). I’m sure if you asked Andy or any of the other guys they’d say the same thing.”
We asked, and they said exactly what Jeter expected.
“My season? It’s over,” Jeter said. “That’s how I describe it.”
Here’s about five minutes of the Captain after last night’s game.
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Associated Press photo
When and where will the wake take place ?
I’m interested in the players’ point of view but the player’s perspective is that the season is over. Let them lick their wounds and rest.
The thing that matters now, IMO, is what Cash and the other GMs in the AL East do in the offseason to improve. Toronto is clearly no pushover and Boston will re-bound with a healthy Youk and Pedey. Baltimore is going to steal some games this year and of course, our old friends The Tampa, Clearwater, St. Pete Rays are going to be there.
It’s “Cashman Time.”
murphydog -
No doubt Cashman’s already been ear to the ground!
I guess last night was goodbye for a lot of players, either for good, or for the winter. I know they don’t show up en masse to clear YS lockers. Gotta be a tough night for them.
They battled. They worked hard to get healthy. Sometimes it’s just someone else’s turn.
Good morning, murph –
Tough last night, what with the loss and the sudden end of the season.
We’ll talk about the offseason later. I’m thinking that here in NY, it looks like it would be a great day for October baseball.
Got to in to make round. Later, murph.
Good morning, Doreen. Gotta run.
The Jeter contract is being discussed intelligently on the last thread. I’m going to weigh in here.
86W183 wrote:
“Does he [Jeter] want an iconic salary for services rendered or is he content with appropriate compensation for the player he is today?”
Great question logically and financially, IMO. But how does Jeter take the field next spring with a paycut? I just can’t see it. It would be a creepy feeling for everybody around him too, IMO.
I’m searching for an analogy: It’s like a young man actually losing his cool and having a fist fight with his own father and winning. Father and son both know the old man isn’t strong enough to whoop the son anymore, but it’s another thing to prove it so brutally. Jeter ain’t what he used to be, but proving it in black and white in salary terms won’t work for either side, IMO. They’ll do the civilized thing and ignore the decline. After all, isn’t 70% of Jeter’s physical performance still worth the money, considering those intangibles?
Even Lupica said as much.
86W, not sure if Romine could be an Inge type. He’s never played anywhere but catcher. Pat M. thinks he could play 3rd base pretty well, and he has good footspeed. People forget that at one time, Inge was Detroit’s center fielder when Granderson was out.
Murph, I don’t think that the catching for next year is in such dire straights. If they don’t bring in a Buck/Olivo type catcher, I think that both Posada and Montero could split that catching at around 70 games a piece and Cervelli (if he stays) getting the rest. Posada/Montero could also split the majority of the DH spots. Posada said at the beginning of the season that he knew this would most likely be his last year as a full time catcher and that he wouldn’t mind DHing and playing a little 1st base. I think his bat comes back around to close to the 2009 range. He still hit for power this year.
As far as Romine goes, he can still be a good catcher, but, he just has a few more issues than what the “experts” said. It’s not a physical thing..it’s mostly technique/mechanical. He’s never had a full time catching instructor, so, next year he’ll have Butch Wynegar. Posada spent a lot of the last two STs with Montero and he really did improve. I think that Romine gets the time this year and Pena takes on Montero’s instruction to polish him.
why would there be yelling and screaming in the clubhouse? the season just ended in horrific fashion
I hate to comment like this right after the loss but…..Girardi did a poor job. His insistance all season long of keeping a starter in until the game is out of hand, his coddling of the bullpen, never using guys back to back, what was he saving them for? The bullpen was weak in the playoffs. The fact that no matter what is said, he had the highest payrol of position players, he had the most talent and he could not get them to play to their potential when it counts. His in game moves were sloppy. For Cashman, he did a great job, if he pulled off the Lee deal earlier this year the Yanks would have just eliminated Tampa and would be going for # 28. The position player? in my opinion, Tex had a weak year, and Girardi should have put Cano in third spot earlier in the season and moved Tex back. Arod had a weak playoff, and the Girardis love affair with Gardner (hit 176 in playoffs) has got to end. Gardner is fast? but doesnt steal enough, and strikes out way too much for an outfielder who doesnt hit for any power.
GB7-
Ah, you just answered my question about Romine getting more intense coaching in the spring (and beyond). I couldn’t remember Wynegar’s name.
Well, off to deal with Saturday stuff. This seems the perfect time to leave.
before anyone thinks that the yankees can’t have an ugly duckling year at catcher next year as they bring in montero to be paired with posada , the rangers are going to the world series after a regular season where their catchers hit .212 with a .605 OPS.
with the revenue aspects of baseball there are no super teams anymore. even the best teams will have several weak spots.
the yankees can afford a year or even a few years of having montero develop if he really has the elite bat it appears that he has.
Doreen:
“They battled. They worked hard to get healthy. Sometimes it’s just someone else’s turn.”
That’s certainly true from the long range perspective of the Law of Big Numbers. The sting of this season however is the fizzle when there should have been sizzle. September saw the team stall and really not recover. It’s reasonable to talk about the payroll and the Nick Johnson, AJ Burnett and Javy disasters, allowing that not everything works out as planned. But A-Rod went cold as did Tex and Jeter, and the Captain’s season is really a puzzle, most likely to himself as well. Big problems loom up the middle next year, pitcher and catcher problems and the team is once again getting old, despite Cashman’s mantra of younger cheaper more athletic.
Good morning.
Unfortunately, last night was a continuation of the problems we saw at the end of the season.
The offense did not show up.
Pitcher’s did not execute their pitches.
And Girardi did not manage the game well.
Credit where credit is due. Texas simply outplayed us in every facet.
Time for the Hotstove season.
We’ll improve things for next season.
People are going to start whining about Rodriguez in the post season again? Most likely the idiots that didn’t watch the games, but, he hit at least 7-8 rockets that were flagged down in the 6 games. If half had fallen in, he’s a .300+ hitter. He isn’t the only one not to hit for power or knock in runs, but he also didn’t have many base runners on in front of him. just can the whining and finger pointing at one player. There was enough failure from all of them.
Ain’t life unkind .
Yanks off=season plan
1- Sign Jeter , Mo, and Pettite
2- FINALLY make a decison on Montero and Romine
3- after that decison build a package around Montero / Romine and land Zach Grienke
4- Forget Lee, save the money
He doesn’t want to play in NY.
Perhaps now that the season is over, the trolls and naysayers will go away, and the Yankee faithful can relax and have good baseball conversations. Hey, I can dream can’t I?
So there are just things you wonder about, even though you don’t have any answer since it’s basically unknowable.
I wonder if our offense would have been different had our rotation lived out it’s hoped-for promise. Or stated another way, what facets of the game ended up being severely compromised as a result of having a rotation of one and a half for much of the season? Or okay, call it a rotation of two. If Javy and AJ came through, would the offense have had to work less hard to help the Yankees get to 95 wins? Did it hurt them toward the end of the season?
I admit to being pretty stymied about of lack of offensive production. Okay totally stymied. I put these questions out there and there may be attempts at answers, but nobody knows for sure, no matter how indignant the responses may be.
How much of this is a function of age? We’ve grown up, so to speak, with our core four. We witnessed the glory years when they were basically kids. Are we wishing upon a star when we believe that this was just an off year and next year will be okay? I am talking specifically about Jeter and Posada.
With respect to the offense, how much of a role has injury played? I know both Swisher and Tex were hurt. I think it definitely showed up in their stats. They both continued to play injured and were it not for the hammy, Tex would have continued to play injured.
Has Jeter lost his focus? I read a lot of comments throughout the season that his relationship with Minka Kelly seemed to be pulling him away from his game. Not all of the comments were tongue-in-cheek.
Has age caught up with the New York Yankees? If so, how will things change if the same players are coming back next season?
And then I go back to my original question and that is, did the lack of a solid rotation compromise the offfense to the extent that had it been otherwise, I wouldn’t even be asking the question.
There’s no way of knowing but I sure as hell wish I knew!
Oh yeah, the final question. And this one is pretty intriguing to me due to yet another parallel. How much did the layoff play into the losses. We saw the exact same thing happening with the Phils. But here’s the twist. The Yanks and Phils are the two oldest teams in baseball. Do younger teams bounce back faster, or is the residual of a layoff just what it is across the board?
***********
As he eats his beignets I have to tip my cap to SJ. Even though I thought he was precipitous in some of his assessments of various Yankee players, I think he did have the overall pulse on the team and much of what he said did come home to roost.
***********
I am totally proud of the New York Yankees. My questions are pragmatic ones. I will never question the heart of the New York Yankees and their desire as a team to win every time they hit that field.
I’m still wondering how Girardi mishandled last nights game. I think he pretty much did everything that most people wanted him to. He yanked his starter early when he was in trouble, walked Hamilton each time, went to Wood pretty early, pitched Rivera. Robertson and Hughes gave up runs, what the hell is Girardi supposed to do? Put on a glove and play the outfield?
Quit your whining.
Good morning everyone.
MTU,
Well said. I think that when the Yankees swept Minnesota in the ALDS, everyone thought they could just turn it on. Apparently not.
Should be an interesting Hot Stove season for the Yankees.
Ruby Tuesday October 23rd, 2010 at 9:21 am
Ain’t life unkind .
*********************************************
It sure is, and you’re a prime example of that.
MTU -
That final tribute by Jim was excellent.
randy l.
Greetings old chap.
The Yankees have had a power hitting catcher completing the lineups’ “circlularity” for a long time now. Sado was never an easy out or comfortable at-bat for the other side and his freakish longevity and health were taken for granted. His defense was always second rate (sorry, Jorge), but even that has slipped and his mortality has shown up at last. Yeah, they can get by with a “hole” in the lineup in the AL East, but that assumes there aren’t many others. This year A-Rod, Tex and Jeter had off years average wise, Grandy didn’t hit for 3/4 of the season and they were trying to figure out what to do with Gardner. Assuming the lineup turns the ship around in 2011, I’ll be a lot more comfortable with an “intern” or “apprentice” catcher, someone that is growing into the job, rather than Cervelli, who, I perceive – in my role as armchair GM
– as a lower ceiling guy than Montero or Romine.
What is this love affair with Greinke? His ERA rose by 2 runs, he allowed 50 more earned runs, 50 more hits and struck out 60 fewer batters. He’ll cost a ton of talent and NYY would only get him for 2 years at the most. He’s also stated often enough that he had no desire to pitch for NYYs or Boston. The fact that the Yanks released his brother after 1 season didn’t sit well with him either. Forget Greinke.
A little aside. I was thinking last night that if a team has to lose in a 7 game series, it’s good to have it happen before game 7. I would think both clubhouses in a game 7 would be prepared for the winning celebration, and so it would be kind of lousy to have to go back into the clubhouse and see plastic sheets up on the walls and vats of unopened champagne.
Two comments this morning:
1 – I laugh at what a joke nick swisher is. Hyperactive choke artist.
2 – when jeter is resigned, if he is appointed the leadoff hitter again at that time, then this team has taken another step backwards
I wonder if Cashman will have any interest in VMart as a part time catcher/DH?
It would be interesting.
I will never question the heart of the New York Yankees and their desire as a team to win every time they hit that field.
*******************************
Trisha,
No true fan should ever question the Yankees desire to win. Sometimes they look flat or frustrate us, but I know they go out there trying to win every game. Most teams would be happy to get to the ALCS. To the Yankees players this season is a failure becasue they did not win the WS.
The Girardi bashing is silly. My conclusive proof of that? Look at who agrees: Lupica
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....ghly_.html
GreenBeret7 October 23rd, 2010 at 9:29 am
What is this love affair with Greinke? His ERA rose by 2 runs, he allowed 50 more earned runs, 50 more hits and struck out 60 fewer batters. He’ll cost a ton of talent and NYY would only get him for 2 years at the most. He’s also stated often enough that he had no desire to pitch for NYYs or Boston. The fact that the Yanks released his brother after 1 season didn’t sit well with him either. Forget Greinke.
Agreed. This simply won’t happen, nor should it.
Cervelli is Jake Gibbs without the glove.
Morning all….tough loss last night and in this series. Hard to believe the season is over as it just seems like yesterday that pitchers and catchers were reporting and we were all debating who should be the 5th starter, whether Thames should make the team, how Gardner would do, etc…
Its really difficult to win the WS. You have to play so well for 3 weeks and the Yankees just didn’t do it this time around. They ran into a talented and very hot Ranger team and didn’t play well enough to get by them. The Rangers played their best baseball of the season in this series and the Yankees didn’t.
There are a lot of reasons to be optimistic for next year though. The Yankees goal is to win every year but if certain players are added, others take additional steps in maturation, and others have better health….then the 2011 team could be very special. We’ll just have to see.
trisha -
Some people drink after losing, as well as after winning, so it might not go bad after all.
murphydog -
I know.
It was truly a bad September, and nothing did feel right about it. “Fizzle” instead of “sizzle” describes it pretty well, I’d say.
And I do believe Cashman wants to get younger and cheaper, just not as easy when you have certain realities in place. Jorge/catching is an issue for next season for sure, and then it’s a “we’ll see what happens,” but SS is the real – I hesitate to say “problem” – conundrum?
The Yankees desire and need to have franchise players collides with the need to stay competitive and bring in “new blood.”
I know my statement “sometimes it’s someone else’s turn” is somewhat on the silly side. And the truth of the way this series kind of doesn’t support that – Texas was better – they were hot, but they were also good. For me, it helps to take the sting out of a bad ending. I know there’s work to be done in the off-season, some of which will be uncomfortable.
for Girardi look at the entire month of Sept and Oct. The team unachieved across the board. The managers job is to get as much out of his roster as possible. The idea is for the team to play to its potential, this team did not, and it falls at the managers feet, thats the way it is.
Hi GB. Count me in among those who don’t want Greinke here. Don’t think he’d be a good fit for the Yankees.
Fran-
SJ and others identified the malaise that affected the Yankees at the end of the season.
There was quite a debate over the value of rest vs. keeping the pedal to the metal.
I was on pedal to the metal side of things. It was sort of an experiment in the correct way to handle things.
I doubt very much that the Yanks will handle it the way they did
again anytime soon.
Corrections will be made in the off season.
Personally, I see CL as a must get.
The risk posed by againg within our offense will need to be adressed IMO.
Montero is part of the potential solution.
Other things will need to be considered.
They’ll figure it out. They’ll need to. the AL East is a beast.
blake -
In my opinion, Cashman may make deals he had not thought he would be required to make, following how the last part of the season, and PS ended.
ARod hit some rockets, true, but he also looked befuddled (as did most of his lineup buddies) on lots of ABs. He looked much different last year in the post season. I’m not bashing the guy, but the Texas pitching obviously beat him, and a few others.
Blake, I don’t see last night as a tough loss. A tough loss is losing the 7th game on a throwing error or wild pitch. NYYs just got outplayed. Pretty much everyone struggled with the exception of a couple of hitters and a couple of pitchers, they all contributed to the losses.
AL-
JCPD is very talented. He enriched us all.
GB-
I’m with you. No greinke in NY.
Texas won, no question but how many position players would start on this years Yankees?
The Centerfielder and Left fielder? maybe the right fielder? and thats it.
The team is really not THAT old. They have enough players in their prime for them not to be considered old. I know only the Phillies were ranked older but when you have a couple of 40 year olds on your roster the average age of a team really increases.
The only every day players I worry about is Arod/Jeter.
for whatever reason after their 8 game winning streak that ended on 9/5 they went 9/16 the rest of the way…..the season took that downward turn on Sept 5th
GB7 wrote: “Cervelli is Jake Gibbs without the glove.”
Like Pam Anderson without the, um, smile.
Cashman also has to learn his lesson, stop signing or trading for National league pitchers. Every pitcher he has signed who had good seasons in the NL cannot pitch in the AL east.
We need some clutch hitting, we obviously don’t have that. Swisher/Teixeira/A-Rod all played like crap. Sure we can use pitching, but what good is it if we can’t even get a lead?
Blake-
WE did everything right. Everything we could as fans.
I didn’t get the reward you spoke of but the journey was great nevertheless.
The promise of next season is right around the corner.
Think Lee, Montero, and others. We’ll be back with a vengance.
trisha -
Excellent post. I think many of us have those same questions. I know I do.
As I said last night, some people underestimate the baseball acumen of the “cheerleaders,” as well as their understanding of the particulars of the teams strengths and weaknesses.
And now, truly, I am off to Saturday stuff.
Randy l – Good to hear from you again!
Greinke is going to cost probably Montero plus one of the killer B’s, plus maybe even more than that.
If he hits the market then the Yankees won’t be the only bidders for his services and the Royals aren’t going to trade their best player and most valuable chip (and fan draw) unless they are totally ripping the other team off.
If they both lose out on Lee and Andy retires then maybe they pursue that road….but I don’t think thats what they will be hoping for.
In this two thousand two ?
two thousand five ?
two thousand six ?
or two thousand seven ?
“Assuming the lineup turns the ship around in 2011, I’ll be a lot more comfortable with an “intern” or “apprentice” catcher, someone that is growing into the job, rather than Cervelli”
murphydog-
it’s good to see a large number of regulars posting this morning with solid rational posts.
the yankees are in good shape going into next year. they as, sj said, were only two games away from the world series.
as far as catcher, it’s a strength that cervelli is backing up the posada/montero tandem.
if montero struggles, cervelli can be down at triple a ready to step in.
i think alex, teixeira, granderson, and jeter will rebound as a group and be better than they were in 2009, and this will give the yankees the margin for error they need to work in a young cacther.
Rodriguez’ at bats weren’t that bad really. for hitting .200, he didn’t strike out much at all. 6 times in 38 at bats. Not everything was a rocket, but, as you said, he wasn’t reading the pitchers as well as he normally did and his swing was getting a little long.
MTU,
I agree that the Yanks learned a valuable lesson this season. I’m also sure they’ll go hard after Lee.
The Yanks have the money but I’m not too sure about many trading chips at the ML level.
I trust in Cashman. Should be an interesting off season.
GB7,
Yea I guess I meant its more of a tough reality….
MTU -
Count me in on the “I don’t want Greinke”, because for one, I don’t think he’d fit, and more important, he would cost more in prospects than he’s worth. He had 1 outstanding year, that’s it. When you look at the entire body of his numbers, to me he’s an average pitcher, a #4 or #5 on the Yankees, at best. You don’t give up your top prospects for that. JMO.
# BIG AL October 23rd, 2010 at 9:31 am
I wonder if Cashman will have any interest in VMart as a part time catcher/DH?
It would be interesting.
——————————————————-
took this subject up here last night and was asked what the h— do they need him for ….
still trying to figure out what their plans are for joba..
that should have read 6 strikeouts in 38 plate appearances (32 at bats).
Sudden sam – the entire outfield, the shortstop, and the catcher. They are pretty much better across the board.
# AllStrZG October 23rd, 2010 at 9:40 am
We need some clutch hitting, we obviously don’t have that. Swisher/Teixeira/A-Rod all played like crap. Sure we can use pitching, but what good is it if we can’t even get a lead?
******************************
ALL OF THOSE GUYS WERE HURT THIS YEAR. And i don’t any fan knows how much that played into how they did. Ialso think others were Nicked up to(i.e. ; Robertson,Kearns,Berkman)
I’m also still doubting the Yanks chances of prying Lee away from the Rangers if they win it all. They’ll find some way to swing big money
joeman,
I see Joba as trade bait. Seems like he was not used very much out of the bullpen in the playoffs.
Doreen, enjoy the beautiful day. I know I am going to do my best. I woke up with that feeling in my stomach that you have when something has gone wrong and you are reminded of it immediately upon waking. This one didn’t hurt nearly as much as some of the others, but it did hurt.
Onward and upward, right?
AL/Fran-
There really is no substitute for Lee.
I hope the Yankees go all in for him.
We all knew the Off season is a crapshoot.
We came up on the wrong side of the equation this time.
It could have been us who were hot and Texas who was cold.
It just didn’t go that way this time.
We must improve as many of our weaknesses as we can afford to.
We need to put even more probability on our side.
“We need some clutch hitting, we obviously don’t have that.”
The offense in this series didn’t look that much different than what they did most of the second half of the season. The runners left on base have been awful in the second half, except for a few spurts here and there, not to mention the failure to score runners from 3rd with less than 2 outs. It came back to haunt them in this series, but I wouldn’t call it lack of clutch hitting, it was more performing to their norm, but against better pitching.
So carlo, hypothetically you would trade Posada for Molina?
Good morning everyone.. Tough loss but NYY outplayed in every facet of the game by a good team that was operating on all cylinders… TEX got the breaks and executed, NYY got very few breaks and failed to execute in almost all key moments.
Off season priorities:
1. Sign Lee
2. Talk Andy into 1 more year
3. Need to find a credible IF back-up with Arod and Jeter getting up in age, whether internal or external NYY needs more than a Pena type
4. Tell Gardner to practice bunting and to swing early in the count
5. Sign MO for whatever it takes
6. Sign Jeter for a fair sum given his status and performance (2*15-20)
7. Find a catcher (defensive minded first) to catch 80 games, with Montero and PO catching the
remainder.
Doreen:
“but SS is the real – I hesitate to say “problem” – conundrum?”
Yes and no. It’s Jeter, that’s why there are some options off the table and some obvious solutions approached with trepidation. He’s still a very good shortstop and he’s still a Jedi Warrior. But his penchant for ground balls to 3d and SS exposes the fact that his aggressiveness at the plate doesn’t work as well as it used to, IMO. And I’m going with my eyes, not the numbers. They flip-flopped Jeter and Damon to avoid the Jeter DP in the first inning last year. This year? Well, I know I cringed frequently when he came to the plate. But moving him in the lineup is the same as making him take a paycut. It’s an ugly admission that he’s slipping – and hurting the team.
The easiest answer IMO is for Jeter to make an adjustment and agree to be more selective. Lead off with Gardner, who is tough to double up and who sees a lot of pitches and who is a base path pest. Then a Jeter ground ball advances the runner instead of creating a DP. If he can’t adjust, he has to move down in the lineup.
I also hope they really go hard after Lee, I wanted Doc here at whatever cost & it didn’t work out…as stated if Tex wins it all it will be tough to get Lee away from Tex
NYY really didn’t use many in the bullpen during the Twins series outside of Rivera and Wood. Chamberlain pitched in 3 of the 6 Texas games and did pretty well.
I’m going to be out and about most of today, I just wanted to say thank you to Chad and Sam for all of the excellent coverage this season. Very much appreciated.
How much longer ’til pitchers and catchers report?!!
Have a good day everyone.
YES channel has “Yankee Postgame” listed as their scheduled program but all they’re showing is some soccer game!
Talk about going cold turkey.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mby7RhAcb0I
Sam – right now? Yes. At any point in the 2010 season, yes. Molina never had the talent jorge did, but he also regressed more slowly. Molina is a productive player still and he showed that.
Jeter will get his money and his 3000 hits as a Yankee the real question does Joe G or whoever the next manager is willing to make tough decisions with this icon in terms of the batting order.. he was awful as a top of the order this year.. what it injuries,age or both.. If Jeter continues in the same way next year, then the manager has to be willing to move him down in the order, he also has to be willing to move TEX out of the 3rd spot,, he is just too streaky, got to put your best hitter in the 3 spot,, most of us would agree that would be Robbie…
murphydog October 23rd, 2010 at 9:39 am
GB7 wrote: “Cervelli is Jake Gibbs without the glove.”
Like Pam Anderson without the, um, smile
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Pammy has a smile? Never paid much attention. I was always attracted by her “tattoos”.
Going out to enjoy the beautiful weather.
Have a good day everyone.
murphydog,
My thinking is that they will re-sign Jeter for 15-18M per year, which still makes him the highest paid SS by far. They will start the year with him at the top of the order, but I think they need to be prepared to move him if next season he looks just like he did this year. And, I don’t mean the DPs, I think that is something we will have to live with from now on. I mean the lack of hitting the ball sharply. The ball he hit over Hamilton’s head the other night was the only real hard hit I remember from him in a long time.
Either way, I don’t think they moved him in the order until he reaches 3K. These negotiations would be much more up in the air, IMO, if he already had reached that milestone.
“When and where will the wake take place ?”
Oh Ruby you missed it.
You were so intent on being here as opposed to supporting your own team that you ended up missing the wake altogether. The death occurred in September 28th in Chicago. You were here that night, lying to us once again! (Toronto is going to win this game.
) So instead of being there to comfort RSN for not making it to the elite eight, you focused your nuttiness elsewhere.
So you are officially a castoff. Someone not wanted anywhere. A loser, a coward, a pretender, basically a waste of space.
I told you that your presence here would rain bad things down on your team, but you didn’t care to listen. But hey, I’m always thrilled to see the Sux go down in flames. I trust you’ll help with that again next season.
Let me add my sincere thanks for Sam’s and Chad’s tireless efforts to feed my baseball habit and hats off to the rest of the Lohud Yankee Blog team (including the techies) and our gracious hosts at Lohud who foot the bill. Thank you also to my fellow committed (should be committed?) bloggies who post here and make it so interesting and informative for me, despite the occasional, cognitive misfires and trolling events.
Oh, well. Wait till next year…
“I don’t think they moved him ”
correction, I don’t think they will move him
As was briefly discussed last night….the Rangers have more issues than just Cliff Lee when considering long term payroll. Josh Hamilton’s big pay day is around the corner if they want to keep him…in addition to other young players they will have to pay at some point. I don’t know their exact financial situation but their owners spent a ton to get the franchise and they are going to have to either sign or let a lot of players go in the near future.
Few thoughts after reading the quotes and threads last night:
1. As Texas takes another step towards winning the WS, Lee coming to NY takes another step backwards.
Folks like SJ and others on here paint the Cliff Lee offseason as a foregone conclusion that he is coming to the Bronx. Few things to remember:
1. He is pitching in the ALCS with a team and city that he loves. I’m sure winning the WS will make it even harder to leave.
2. Despite what people would like to believe on here and the BS some post aboiut the Rangers financial situation, guess what—they have the money to pay him, especially since the rest of their team, namely the pitching staff is so cheap. There’s no doubt with the extra TV revenue, Texas will be a major, if not the main, contendor for Lee.
3. Texas is right near Arkansas, which will play a rople in his decision. Now before everyone goes all, “CC wanted the WC, look how that ended up.”, what other team made a run at CC the way the Yanks did. We had $75+M off the books and NEEDED an ace, where most other teams didn’t. This year, a far different story.
————————————————————-
2. I don’t want to hear anything about Swisher, Alex, or Teix (pre-hammy) being hurt and thus having an affect on their abysmal offensive performance (or lack thereof). Did anyone happen to see Nelson Cruz hobbling to every ball hit his way.
That same guy hit .350 with 2 HR’s and 5 RBI’s in the ALCS.
I was happy that the postgame wasn’t maudlin. I never got to see the montage the ends the regular season, and that’s okay too. Other than Kim “sweetly” grilling Jeter, it was a pretty factual representation of what happened.
Regardless of the season he just had,Jeter is an awful leadoff hitter in general at this point in his career. He has no speed, he has no patience, and he can’t drive the ball. He doesn’t work counts and has an obp that’s no more than a sliver above his ba. That’s not a leadoff hitter. He has no business batting there simply because he doesn’t meet any of the creiteria for what a good team wants from that spot.
Did any of you ever recognize how demoralizing it was this october to go 1-2-3 in the first inning of the game almost every game? I would say that in 9 of the games we played this postseason, jeter made 9 outs to start them on less than 30 combined pitches. That’s so abysmal and depressing that it literally just starts the same train rolling again.
Not a leadoff hitter. Not really even worth discussing this offseason. Needs to be moved.
The Ranger’s payroll this year was 64 million with really only Micheal Young making big time money. Is the new ownership going to spend what it takes to lock all those young guys up to keep that team together over the long haul, and can they do that if they give Lee a huge contract?……Maybe, but thats something Lee will be considering when he makes his decision….he knows that the Yankees will do what it takes to be competitive not just next season but for the life of his contract.
Once he gets that contract, the Cliffie Lee of the New York Yankees won’t be the same Cliffie Lee of 2009-2010 .
A precipitous drop in performance is inevitable .
You are aware of that, right ?
I hope you are .
“they have the money to pay him, especially since the rest of their team, namely the pitching staff is so cheap. ”
They won’t be cheap forever….CJ Wilson will be a free agent after 2011 and all those arbitration guys they have will be do hefty raises…..their payroll will have to go up significantly if the do in fact sign Lee to a huge contract.
I don’t think the Yankees played up to their talent. Some of the reason for that is that some of the talent is declining as a result of age, but I don’t think their coaching is top notch either, and maybe other players aren’t big game performers.
The offseason cannot just be about Cliff Lee.
They need to take a hard look at other areas of the team as well.
Then there is the albatross that is AJ. The thought of three more years with him in the rotation is very unsettling.
“Once he gets that contract, the Cliffie Lee of the New York Yankees won’t be the same Cliffie Lee of 2009-2010 .”
Kinda like Beckett and Lackey?
Well, that was an intensely frustrating end to a baseball year……with some major worries surfacing (amongst which is the dire performance of AJ, newly-awarded the Hideki Irabu Memorial Salver).
Cashman’s Blackberry is now, officially, in melt-down mode.
Can someone tell me what SJ does that makes him so in the know?
I get the feeling he works for the yankees or played for the yankees…..any help?
Blake, Greenberg and Ryan paid nearly $200 mil more than the sticker price for the Rangers according to the people that put out the team values. They also inherited a lot of team debt, not to mention the money that they were loaned by MLB just to meet payroll. They also have debts to people like Rodriguez $25 mil to pay off. Perhaps Alex can offer Lee a contract and rent him out to the Yankees.
Texas also has a ton of arbitration eligibles coming up, with Hamilton and Cruz, along with to starters and Murphy (I believe). That’s a ton of cash and I doubt any will give hometown discounts or take a bunch of antler and claw t-shirts as payment.
AJ Burnett as the 5th starter is not a problem at all. He’s just an expensive 5th starter.
GreenBeret7 October 23rd, 2010 at 9:37 am
Blake, I don’t see last night as a tough loss. A tough loss is losing the 7th game on a throwing error or wild pitch. NYYs just got outplayed. Pretty much everyone struggled with the exception of a couple of hitters and a couple of pitchers, they all contributed to the losses
____
I feel the same way. I think we just didnt get hot in this series. We had pretty good defense our offense was shaky as was our pitching but it was that way through the whole season. A tough loss is what the fans of the Braves and Reds had to deal with. Those were games that they could have won but lost because of costly errors that couldnt be overcome. We never really made any costly errors(unless you count the balls that hung right over the plate and thus ended up in the stands) the whole offense aside from 2 or 3 were actually hot. Our pitching besides Andy and CC, Kerry and Mo, were pretty much what they were through the whole season.
“AJ Burnett as the 5th starter is not a problem at all. He’s just an expensive 5th starter.”
Really? If his Post AS ERA of 5.95 is indicative of his performance going forward, that’s a problem.
Actually, one of the reasons Lee preferred to come to NY is because is farther AWAY from his home.
As far as the Texas TV money is concerned, two important factors come into play:
1. The larger annual payments don’t begin until 2013. The original deal still has two years to run and it’s not front loaded.
2. Under terms if their deal to buy the club, they can’t borrow against the contract for player salaries.
If you REALLY listened to Chuck Greenberg’s comments on this issue, you would hear him talk “lifestyle” more than money.
Do you know why that is?
It’s because he knows he can’t win a dollar for dollar war with the Yankees if they decide to go “all in” for Lee. Which I believe he will.
Is it tougher for him to leave if they win the WS? Nope.
No tougher than it was for Johnny Damon, Mike Torrez, John Wetteland and countless other players who left WS winners for new teams after they won.
One other thing.
Cliff Lee, and his family, LOVE New York.
They don’t like it. They LOVE it.
CC and Amber Sabathia are the Lee’s closest friends and they LOVE playing and living in the NY area.
Some fans get caught up with the, “He won’t leave Texas” because some fans LIVE for thinking negatively.
The fact is, Lee stays in Texas ONLY if he takes a lesser deal to do so.
Highly unlikely.
GB,
I just don’t see it either. CJ Wilson’s pay day is coming soon as well. I don’t see how the Rangers can both match dollars with the Yankees and also keep that team together long term without heading into big boy payroll land…….given they can’t borrow against their TV deal, it seems that would be tough for them to pull off.
Sabathia wasn’t really that good during the Texas series. He’s still as good a pitcher as there is in baseball, but, with the offense missing, it makes pitching extremely tough when you just can’t afford any mistakes. when it’s that tight, mistakes are likely to happen. Texas just happened to be firing on all cylanders and NYYs had some fouled spark plugs.
Ruby Tuesday like his Sox brethren lusting for Adrian Gonzalez except the Sox have no viable serious trade chips to get him from SD.
Has to annoy the hell out of him that the Yankees have so many resources/chips in the majors and the farm system to use for trade bait to improve our team for the 2011 season.
Even if they do not sign Cliff Lee as a FA.
As most fans are aware of, the free agency period begins earlier this year than in past years.
Cashman will need to get a head start with signing Derek and Mariano and hopefully get an earler decision on Andy than in the past 2 years.
This sets the tone of what transactions will take place later.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5633968
The best thing Texas has going for them (in terms of Lee, not life) is no state income tax.
According to Elias/ESPN (I hope the stats don’t all run together…)
GIDP and K rate
Jeter: 3.2%; 15.4%
Cano 2.9 %; 11.8%
Cervy 2.5%; 14.8%
Sado: 1.5%; 25.3%
Swisher: 2.2%;23.8%
Granderson: 0.6%; 24.4%
ARod: 1.3%; 18.1%
Gardner: 1.2%; 20.7%
Teixeira: 2.4%; 19.7%
Jeter’s GIDP rate was highest on the team, but his strikeout rate was second lowest behind Cano (don’t count Cervelli who had many fewer ABs).
FYI, Jeter’s Ground ball rate was 53% compared to Gardner’s 42.9%, second highest. That works for Gardner, doesn’t work for Jeter.
SJ44,
You’re stating the obvious. Of course no other team can out bid the Yankees. We all know this. It depends on how close the Ranger’s deal gets.
Think about it. If you had close money, do you go to a team that failed to make the World Series, or stay with the team that you won with? The team that has far more young talent to boot and in an easier division.
Of course money is important, but if he gets a deal that is close, he could stay. It’s all hypothetical, but your refusal to see it is ridiculous. I’m sorry, you base your claims on “facts” as if you’ve got the Rangers bank statement in front of you. As far as I know, you don’t.
Cliff Lee will sign with NYY and there are four reasons why:
1. Who the Yankees need, and who the Yankees target, the Yankees get-especially if that player has Yankee friends (like CC and AJ)
2. No team can compete with NYY on money
3. No team can compete with NYY on year-in, year-out, ability to go the distance
4. Lee appears to thrive on the big stage, is there any bigger than NY?
You can’t look at strikeout rate in the absence of power.
SJ44 -
Great insight and post. This is why I love reading your posts, just the facts.
Too bad others can’t be as rational as folks like you, GB7 and other good posters.
LOL at those judging Girardi’s handling of this team in September – petal to the meddle – please – did you not see how banged up the team was – from Tex to Gardner – to Swisher’s knee – to A-Rod not being right the whole year – to Jeter aging and trying to cheat on the fastballs then getting the offspeed and breaking pitches instead – come on. It is one thing if they had lost to the Twins – then yes – Girardi should be called out on September – the Yanks just lost to the Rangers – who also happened to outplay the Tampa Rays as well. I am tired of it – absolutely tired of it – I was tired of it in September and now I am tired of it in October. Question Joe G’s moves in October in games – not the ones resting players in September or his lineups against the Blue Jays and Orioles. Please – even if we had won the AL East – we still face these same Rangers – and our pitching was NOT up to task. EVEN Sabathia was less than stellar against them – and that has nothing to do with Girardi resting players in September – AND THERE is the real salvo against these posters going on the offensive against the September resting – how do you explain a Sabathia, a Robertson, a Hughes – who had nothing to do with resting the offensive players.
In the end to these posters – I only have these words to say – go post and pay attention to other matters such as your nephews playing the Arizona Fall League. Tired of it – just absolutely tired of it.
Swisher and TEX had terrible offensive Post Seasons, just remarkably poor. Whether injured or not, this is the second consecutive season in which they both were MIA at the plate- it really is tough to generate any offensive momentum when your 2nd and 3rd place hitters were that futile. Coupled with Jeter’s inability to fight off pitches and get on base consistently, the Yankees were 3 and out far too many teams this season.
Yes, I’m not worried about a #5 starteds era over the last 15 starts of the year as an indicator of the teams future. Call me crazy.
here’s the cost to the Ryan group and what the team was worth.
“A group led by Chuck Greenberg and Nolan Ryan won control of the Rangers in August, 2010, at auction in U.S. Bankruptcy Court with a bid of $593M, including $385M in cash and $208M in assumed liabilities. Former owner Tom Hicks had purchased the club for $250M in 1998.
Forbes magazine valued the club at $451M in April, 2010.”
Wilson is arbitration eligible this year and Lewis gets a #2 mil boost. Guerrero either has to be resigned or they go looking for a new bat. He’s owed more than $9 mil if they want him back on the option. Most of their roster are going on one year deals after coming from other teams, so they have to pay most of them good money (Guzman, Francoure, Molina, Tranor and others). Murphy’s not coming in at $500,000 this next year, either.
GreenBeret7 October 23rd, 2010 at 10:19 am
but, with the offense missing, it makes pitching extremely tough when you just can’t afford any mistakes. when it’s that tight, mistakes are likely to happen
——————————————————–
so true.
Yanks were 57-21 (.730) when they score first and 43-49 (.467) when the opponent scores first.
I love how SJ44 pretends to have inside information about Cliff Lee. Do you guys hang out often or just converse over the phone?
The Bugler plays Taps in the background as the lights go out.
“Think about it. If you had close money, do you go to a team that failed to make the World Series, or stay with the team that you won with? The team that has far more young talent to boot and in an easier division.”
But are they going to be willing to keep that young talent together when it gets significantly more expensive….which it will (especially Josh Hamilton and Nelson Cruz). Lee isn’t just thinking about 2011, he’s thinking about where he can make money, be happy, and win over the life of his contract. Besides…the Rangers haven’t won the WS just yet…..though I do think that if they play like they did in the ALCS they will.
Lee knows the Yankees will compete EVERY year.
He has no idea if Texas will.
Fans get caught up in the “young players” nonsense.
Players don’t.
In 99.9% of free agent cases, the #1 reason players change teams is M-O-N-E-Y.
For a 32 year old pitcher taking his only bite ever of the free agent apple, money, not young players or lifestyle, will drive this decision.
I don’t think that the Pettitte decision should impact the Yankees offseason goals all that much. With Pettitte, the rotation would be: CC, Andy, Lee or other top line starter, Hughes, and Burnett. Without Pettitte, I think they would plug Nova in as the 4th or 5th starter.
Burnett will be there regardless, if for no other reason than his contract. If they can’t get it done with CC, Lee, Hughes, Burnett, and Nova, then they haave a lot of other issues.
The main way I think that Pettitte staying or retiring would have an impact would be in how much money they have to spend on other pieces. They will get a top line pitcher for whatever the price whether Pettitte comes back or not.
“Yes, I’m not worried about a #5 starteds era over the last 15 starts of the year as an indicator of the teams future. Call me crazy.”
You are crazy if you think I said that it’s an indicator of the team’s future.
I said it was “unsettling” and a “problem,” and it undeniably is.
GB7; what stood out to me is Forbes valuation at 451 million but the purchase price was
30% above that valuation. Incredible. This is a team with very little financial flexibility in the next couple of years until the TV deal starts to pay off..
Well punk, why don’t you do this….
See how it plays out, then get back to me.
Anybody have a guesstimate on what Hamilton’s raise will be next year?
Chicken for lunch ? New recipes on the board ? Songs a playing ?
“You can’t look at strikeout rate in the absence of power.”
Fair comment.
My point was GIDP and Groundballs really, not K rate or power. I didn’t look at BABIP, either, which I am curious about. Just trying to check if my eyes were deceiving me.
“In 99.9% of free agent cases, the #1 reason players change teams is M-O-N-E-Y.”
What Texas does, in large part because of the absence of a state income tax, is force the Yankees to spend more money for Lee. That has a cost in terms of other expenditures.
“# Ruby Friday October 23rd, 2010 at 10:31 am
The Bugler plays Taps in the background as the lights go out.”
How long has it been since you had a Fenway Frank?
OK, so we really have just a few players who aren’t expendable:
CC and Mo (worth their weight in gold)
AJ and A-Rod (because we are upside-down on our payments to these underachievers)
Posada (1 year left in the contract as he rides into the sunset)
Jeter (who can write his own ticket, because he is arguably the most marketable player in franchise history)
Pettitte (year-to-year until he leaves on a high note or is physically incapable of pitching anymore)
No other Yankee’s job is safe.
I think Hamilton could make $10-$15m next year.
GreenBeret7 October 23rd, 2010 at 10:29 am
here’s the cost to the Ryan group and what the team was worth.
—————————————-
Hamilton is up for arbitration and he hits the FA market in 2 seasons.
Lee is a Ranger and will remain so. Get used to it.
Blake, I’d guess that he’s going to ask for Michael Young type money over about 3-4 years. Somewhere between 13-15 mil. he’ll certainly get more than $10 mil for 1 year. Players like Kinzler have big built in raises coming this year, too.
So I’m just wondering how big a payroll spike it would be for the Rangers to bring back the exact same team they have on the field right now….I’m thinking the payroll would nearly double from its current 64 million.
Later folks.
Remember when Detroit looked like the stacked young team ready to compete for years to come? They haven’t made it back to the postseason since ’06, and now that team is just a shell.
Tampa Bay has all the young talent you could ask for, but still hasn’t won a WS or made it past the first round since ’08. Now their team is going to be losing significant pieces.
Consistently making the playoffs is not as easy as the Yankees make it out to be, especially if the front office is not 100% committed.
Good.
Even without Lee, the Texas payroll is going to hit close to $100 mil this year.
SJ44,
Yea just like you ridiculed anyone who said Molina would catch Burnett last year and Posada would sit. You said no way they are doing that and you played your insider information card again. You still have not addressed how wrong you were
“Consistently making the playoffs is not as easy as the Yankees make it out to be, especially if the front office is not 100% committed.”
Let’s be candid. The Yankees’ spend $50m more a year than any other team. That doesn’t ensure playoff success, but it does make it a lot easier to make the playoffs.
Girardi sent packing. Randolph and Torre on the short list.
Yes rich, its unsettling. I agree with that. That said, is aj burnetts hideousness really even a top 5 concern for this team into 2011? Isn’t he basically just like a free upside option? If he stinks he stinks and we use mosely. If he’s good then great for us.
Brian 44; on what planet is A-rod considered an underachiever?
He has won 2 League MVP with NYY and was arguably the Yankees best Post season player in 2009 leading them to the World series.
How in h can he be called an underachiever?
Get a clue Hal is chopping another 10% off the budget.
Plus there have been numerous examples of players the Yankees have wanted and did not get. Maddux and Clemens are just 2 examples
No Lee, no Wood, no Berkman, no Kearns, no money to spend after Jeter and Mo.
Tampa is going to have a real struggle staying with Toronto next year and if they reduce payroll again, they’ll get to fight Baltimore. They’re trying to get under $50 mil this year and they too will have arbitation issues. They’ll regret that contract they gave Zobrist.
“That said, is aj burnetts hideousness really even a top 5 concern for this team into 2011″
Yes, for one reason: If the payroll remains at or near $200m as seems likely, then that is $16m that can’t be spent to improve the team. On team with some holes, in large part due to age-related issues, that’s not an insignificant amount of money.
# Rich in NJ October 23rd, 2010 at 10:43 am
“Consistently making the playoffs is not as easy as the Yankees make it out to be, especially if the front office is not 100% committed.”
Let’s be candid. The Yankees’ spend $50m more a year than any other team. That doesn’t ensure playoff success, but it does make it a lot easier to make the playoffs.
——————————————————————————————–
the disaster in Boston with all those injuries the playoffs in 10 might have happened in NY
Will the Rangers be willing or even capable to take their payroll to the 120-130 million dollar range next year?…because thats where it’ll have to go to re-sign Lee and bring back everyone else. Then it will continue to creep upwards from there if they plan on keeping the gang together.
where does Lee make his offseason home?
Yankee21: Admittedly, I hesitated to include A-Rod in that list. Big picture, you’re right, he is an achiever. This season was atypical for him. Are we on the same page with the others I listed?
Where is Trisha ?? Feeding the chickens ??
“the disaster in Boston with all those injuries the playoffs in 10 might have happened in NY”
It did happen in NY, in 2008.
But the point remains. Spending a ton of money greatly increases a team’s playoff chances. It helps the RS as well, to a lesser degree.
The Yankees and Cliff Lee are PARTING WAYS!!!!
You can quote me on that gentleman.
We are sorry to see the Yankees lose, but like Twitter says #YankeesBackNextYear. As a totem of our love for the Yankees fans, here is a capsule of free game used authentic MLB certified dirt- we will send to you:
http://www.steinersports.com/freedirt
Arkansas
Notice how Jeter had his Yankee cap on during postgame interview? Usually the players are just in casual gear…think he was sending an indirect sign
Totally agree with you, “Cash.” My fellow Yankee fans have been at odds with me when I make such a prediction.
I think it was Buck(or Pat Riley, lol) who said that the pain of losing is worse than the joy of winning.
I’m not that upset because I didn’t think the Yankees were that good. They played mediocre baseball for 2 months, finished the season in sad fashion and beat a spooked Twins team. The Rangers were a better team and they showed it.
Now, as to next year:
There’s only so much Cash can do with the team. Yes, he can try and fix the SP, but some of that fixing has to come from within. We need Andy back – but even if he returns, will he have this kind of year? Will he stay healthy all year? Phil is vital. I don’t think it’s a given that he will improve; I want to see that he will. I do not believe he ever seriously committed to his change and his curve is a mess. In order for him to either start living up to his potential or even simply to be a #4 type starter, he has to mix up his pitches. He needs that curve badly, moreso than the change. We also have to hope that the innings from this year don’t catch up to him; it was quite a jump from the previous year. Lee? He’s out of our control. He may sign before FA. He may take the Rangers offer (which will be very fair to say the least). Either way, Cashman can’t force the guy to sign. If you assume he stays in TX, then whereto next?
I still think something needs to be done with the lineup………….I like Swish a lot, but he/Gardner and Curtis are the only 3 tradeable commodities and I’m sure not trading Granderson. That said, if Jeter continues his decline (I don’t think so, but there’s always the possibility), Po continues to show to that he’s basically done, Tex disappears for his usual month or two and Alex doesn’t stay healthy, then there isn’t much that can be done. There are no guarantees that any of these ? will be answered positively. We absolutely need a new BUC.
# Triple Short of a Cycle October 23rd, 2010 at 10:45 am
Plus there have been numerous examples of players the Yankees have wanted and did not get. Maddux and Clemens are just 2 examples
—————————————————
Maddux wanted to stay in the NL and NYY were coming off 4 consecutive losing seasons, including having the worst record in baseball in one of those years.
As for Clemens when did the yanks miss out on him? He went to Houston after he retired at age 41 because he wanted to play at home.
if I survived (as an 8 year old) the Yankees losing the 1955 World Series…I survive this year.
if I survived the Yankees losing the 1960 World Series…I will survive this year.
if I survived the Yankees losing both the 1963 WS and 1964 WS…I will survive this year
if I survived the late ’60s, when the Yankees were awful…I will survive this year
if I survived the Yankees being swept by the Reds in 1976…I will survive this year
if I survived the mid to late ’80s and early ’90s, when the Yankees were once again awful…I will survive this year
the loss to the Mariners in ’95? survived that one and will survive this one
the loss to the Indians in 97? same
the loss to the Dbacks in ’01? same
the losses to the Angels in 02? no problem
the WS loss to the Marlins in 03? no problem
the loss to the Sox in ’04? yup, survived
the losses to the Tigers and Indians? yup, still here
for anyone who wants to know why I’ve survived all of this:
1952 World Series Champion
1953 World Series Champion
1956 World Series Champion
1958 World Series Champion
1961 World Series Champion
1962 World Series Champion
1977 World Series Champion
1978 World Series Champion
1996 World Series Champion
1998 World Series Champion
1999 World Series Champion
2000 World Series Champion
2010 World Series Champion
No other team even comes close to this record and never will.
Winning the World Series doesn’t happen every year but my Yankee fandom isn’t dependent on that, it is lifelong and unconditional. You appreciate the victories, accept the losses (even if they hurt) and move on with your life.
I’m proud to be a Yankees fan, I wish many of you felt the same way, you would appreciate the game instead of just complaining and whining all of the time.
# Ruby Friday October 23rd, 2010 at 10:53 am
Arkansas
Like the Clintons, where do they live now?
Brian 44; Hughes’ job is safe, he will be a top pitcher for NYY for years to come.
As a ***totem*** of our love for the Yankees fans
The word is ***token***. If you feel the need to troll, at least pretend to be intelligent, idiot.
Nolan Ryan is rewriting the way pitchers are developed? LOL I saw this in the last thread. Can we please wait and see how the pitchers under his plan do before we laud him?
“Tampa is going to have a real struggle staying with Toronto next year and if they reduce payroll again, they’ll get to fight Baltimore. They’re trying to get under $50 mil this year and they too will have arbitation issues.”
See, this is what drives me crazy about all the mediots who praise the Rays for doing it the “right way” as opposed to the Yankee Way. The Rays were content to lose for ten years in order to stockpile high draft picks. So much for their fan respect and respect for the game. And how is that different from what the Yankees are accused of doing by outspending everybody on free agents? Both team are operating within the rules, but Tampa’s extreme is just fine while the Yankee extreme is bad for the game. (All the while with Tampa taking the MLB welfare from teams like the Yankees and others).
Now not only doesn’t the team want to pay for a new stadium, but they are cutting the budget and intentionally mutilating a division winning team? Where’s the media outrage? I don’t like Maddon, I don’t like Tampa. I feel more enmity toward Tampa than Boston. Evan Longoria, however, is a great ballplayer and solid baseball citizen, a lot like Crawford. The rest of them? Meh.
Another thing – our pen. It fell apart later in the post-season………….
“But how does Jeter take the field next spring with a paycut? I just can’t see it. It would be a creepy feeling for everybody around him too, IMO”
Why can’t he?
Is his pride that more important than the team.
A recent example, Paul O’Neil. Sure he is not in the same category as Jeter in terms of relevance to Yankees, but he was as important to the Dynasty as Jeter. Didn’t he come back on a much reduced and deferred salary for one year? Did his pride hurt that much or did he care abou it?
I think these negotiations will tell a lot about Jeter.
Whether he cares more about the team as we all think or more about his ego.
Honeatly, I do not know the answer, time will tell.
Maybe he/she meant to post as a “totem pole” of our love for Yankee fans
Scream it from the rooftops with me. WE WILL NOT SIGN CLIFF LEE! That’s a direct quote friends and fans. Cliff Lee and the Yankees have PARTED WAYS!!!
Clemens chose the Blue Jays over the Yanks
I badly want Wood back. I know he wants to close, but does he really want to close for a mediocre or bad team? Those are the only teams that will offer him closer money – good teams already have closers. Either way, wherever he goes, I will root for him. He’s a really good guy with a very positive attitude and he was wonderful for us.
Cash, I agree with you, but you don’t need to repeat yourself.
Off topic, but I’ve never understood why Texas fans hate Alex so much. He played great while he was there and was TRADED. It makes sense that Seattle fans boo him since he chose to leave for more money in free agency, but that’s not what happened in Texas.
Brian Casational meetingshman
October 23rd, 2010 at 10:52 am
The Yankees and Cliff Lee are PARTING WAYS!!!!
You can quote me on that gentleman.
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Brian are you still drunk ? You know we need to discuss these options at our organizational meetings first. Our first topic will be our managerial vacancy. Sober up son.
“Betsy says:
October 23, 2010 at 10:57 am
I think it was Buck(or Pat Riley, lol) who said that the pain of losing is worse than the joy of winning.
I’m not that upset because I didn’t think the Yankees were that good.”
I agree, post all star break they weren’t playing good baseball. I even prepared myself for a first round exit but Minnesota always lies down for the Yanks. They’re better than they showed
I will never ever undertsand the constant complaining about derek jeter. Do you people realize he is the greatest yankee shortstop of all time? Yes he had a down year. WE ALL KNOW THAT. Yes he is only going to get older. WE ALL KNOW THAT. But the nasty comments all year have really really bugged me. He has been the heart and soul of this team for 15 years. He’s helped win us 5 rings. Find me another shortstop who has done that recently. Oh wait, you cant.
Taken from RAB about the greatest seasons by position players of all time:
Shortstop
Derek Jeter 1999: Jeter’s OPS+ of 153 blows away any other season by a SS in Yankees history. He put up a .349/.438/.552 line and even put up some strong counting numbers with 24 HR’s and 102 RBI. He was just 25 but never approached these numbers again. He’s been great almost every season since, but his 1999 is completely unmatched.
Runner Up: Jeter 2006: This the only other season in his career that Jeter OPS’d at least .900 (.900 on the nose) and he had a 132 OPS+. The 132 is the second highest in Yankee history at SS, which puts his 153 in 1999 into more context. No other Yankee SS has ever had an OPS+ of 125. Like Gehrig at 1B, Jeter owns the SS records when it comes to the Yankees.
The point im trying to make is that we should all be appreciative of what we have. We should all be THRILLED that next year we are going to see an historic event as he becomes the frist yankee EVER to get 3000 hits. Just stop complaining about that he’s going to get paid! Cashman is going to pay him how he and the organization see fit and there is nothing anybody can do about it.
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I know he is not going to put those numbers up again, i just wanted to post them
“A recent example, Paul O’Neil. Sure he is not in the same category as Jeter in terms of relevance to Yankees, but he was as important to the Dynasty as Jeter. Didn’t he come back on a much reduced and deferred salary for one year? Did his pride hurt that much or did he care abou it?”
I think you’re wrong on the order of magnitude involved here. I’m not disagreeing that there is an ego issue in this negotiation, but the answer is probably not hardball money negotiations.
Paul O’Neill is not Jeter. O’Neill’s face will not be carved out on the Yankee equivalent of Mt. Rushmore. O’Neill was never the face of the franchise, isn’t tops on every Yankee stat list, wasn’t a home grown Yankee and is not getting into the HOF with 300 hits and all the rest. Jeter is as close to a living Yankee legend as it gets and its not like he can’t play baseball anymore. I’m not saying it’s a case of Dimaggio’s ego, but the contract is about the value of Jeter’s legend and lifetime contribution. Negotiating too sharply over money when it comes to Jeter looks and feels cheap and undignified, IMO.
RSM says:
October 23, 2010 at 11:04 am
Off topic, but I’ve never understood why Texas fans hate Alex so much. He played great while he was there and was TRADED. It makes sense that Seattle fans boo him since he chose to leave for more money in free agency, but that’s not what happened in Texas.
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It’s the same reason they booed Tex or the Angels booed Tex. If you leave, no matter how long you’re there or how you left, they hate you. But only if you go to the Yankees.
The Angels booing of Tex makes less sense to me. He was there 2 months.
If someone told you at the beginning of the year that AJ and Javy would pitch below replacement level. That Cano, Swisher, and Brett Gardner would carry the offense for most of the year. That 2 of the 3 guys who carried the offense would be injured going into the playoffs.
Would you think there was a chance in hell that team made it to the ALCS?
This is a very talented team. Making big changes or panic moves coming off a painful loss is the absolute last thing Cashman should do.
People really got spoiled by winning last year. This team had the best offense in baseball and made it to the ALCS, yet there are major problems with this team?
How is that a reasonable conclusion?
Most years the Yankees are not going to win the WS no matter how talented they are. The playoffs are a crapshoot.
Make some minor adjustments to the offense and go back to work next year.
# Triple Short of a Cycle October 23rd, 2010 at 11:02 am
Clemens chose the Blue Jays over the Yanks
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I don’t recall the Yanks trying to sign Clemons in 1997.
The chickens are starving where’s Trisha ??
SJ, I hope you’re right. Lee is not only a great pitcher, but he thrives in the big spot. He’s got his buddies here – and you say he really loves NY? OK, If I’m Cash, the first thing I do 5 days after the WS ends is call Lee and make a huge pitch to him. Offer him whatever it is he’s going to offer and make it clear how much the team wants him. Now, I don’t think the Yankees are necessarily going to be perennial contenders because the division is only going to get tougher and it’s an old team. I’m going to hold off on touting all our young pitching in the minors until they actually prove it in the big leagues………Cash will just have to throw the “we have $$$$ and will spend whatever it takes” idea to Lee. The Rangers are in a weaker division with a fantastic farm sytem…………..
Make that 3000 hits. Tee, hee.
Like the Clintons, where do they live now?
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Arkansas
Since the end of the dead ball era, only 11 world series winners have gone on to repeat. (Of those 11, 6 have been yankee clubs.)
Since the start of the free agent era 3 world series winners have repeated. (2 of the 3 were Yankee clubs)
Since the start of revenue sharing only 1 world series winner has gone on to repeat (which of course was the Yankees).
This series was disappointing, but there’s a reason why repeating championships in baseball is so infrequent – it’s a just extremely difficult to do.
As fans we tend to focus on specific player transactions as the reason why the second championship wasn’t won, or misguidedly question the teams heart, etc. But ultimately, baseball is such a long season and the playoffs due to their short series structure are so prone to variation in play, that repeating is just very, very difficult. To be able to execute at that level over the span of almost 350 games is just an enormous battle. The length over which a team needs to out execute the opposition is brutal.
In baseball, your not only trying to overcome the opposition, your trying to overcome time. And that’s an argument most teams are going to lose.
This is partly why as fans we should try to enjoy those wonderful moments like last season more. They’re magical and part of why they are so is because they happen so rarely.
For the same reasons it’s unfortunate to consider this season as a “failure.” It wasn’t an ideal success but that hardly means it’s a complete negation. Difficult thing happened. But at the same time so many good things happened. Robbie Cano accepted the mantle of performance leadership from Alex and Jeter. Phil Hughes had the best first year rotation season the yankees have gotten out of a young pitcher since Andy Pettite nearly 15 years ago.
Moving forward this team is extremely well positioned whether or not they sign Cliff Lee. There is arguably more talent top to bottom in the organization right now than there has been since the late 1950′s.
It’s a wonderful time to be a Yankee fan. I love this team.
Austin Kearns never played an inning of the ALCS. This indicates that he won’t be back in 2011.
Eduardo Nunez will be back and either Ramiro Pena or another versatile infielders.
Wherever and whenever possible, the aging Jeter and A-Rod will need occasional rest or DH.
Curious to see what decision is made with Mosely and Mitre.
Chamberlain, Miranda, Russo, Cervelli, and Curtis could be on the bubble for deals depending on what Cashman can find for a good defensive catcher and a middle relievers if Aceves is not quick to heal. Also, another lefthander in the event Marte doesn’t return from his surgery.
Chamberlain can show some willingness to be a force by attending the Phoenix Institute and getting in real pitching shape.
“Where is Trisha ?? Feeding the chickens ??”
I went to look for you but you were nowhere to be found! Sorry. You’ll have to continue to starve, just like the lepers you root for!
HARDEE HAR HAR HAR HAR!!!
Or are you perhaps a BUNNY, Ruby?
Speaking of the income tax difference between Texas and NY in Lee’s case.
The players play 81 games on the road and pay state taxes to those states.
So, the players pay state tax to the team home state on 50% of the income.
So, all Yanks have to do is better by 4% the texas offer (assuming NY top tax rate of 8%).
IfTtexas offers 20mil, NY needs to offer 20.8mil to match it.
So, this state tax difference is not going to make much of a difference.
I think CC is going to be the wild card in Lee coming to NY.
I also think Cash will approach the Lee negotiations similar to Tex, meeting him and agent in secret and telling them whatever the best offer they can get, he will beat it including adjustment for the state income tax.
Jeter is not going to be a 330 hitter again at age 37…I don’t get how people want to overpay for the past, that’s how teams get stuck in Championshi droughts when they start throwing away bad money. 10mil to Jete instead of 20 would help the team pay for SP
Barry Manilow wants to help write a rendition of “Dreamin’. Where are the song writers here ??
If the person who knows how to get everyone’s personal information is lurking about, I’d like Ruby Tuesday’s please! And yes, I will pay for it.
Keep posting moron. And then there were no more.
If people think Minny just laid down for the Yankees they are sadly mistaken.
The Twins had a very good team.
The Yankees outplayed them in every facet of the game just like Texas just did to New York.
These are professional athletes. They didn’t lay down.
That’s a bs cop out to try to not give the Yankees credit for beating a very good team.
Trisha baby, I’ll help you feed the chickens anytime.
LGY, I am not talking about panic moves, but this team has serious ? in it’s lineup and rotation. Posada is basically done and we really have to see about Jeter. I think he’ll be better, but we actually don’t know for sure. We also don’t know if Alex is healthy. I think when a team consistently struggles in the post-season, beyond even what is normal (due to better pitching), you have to start asking questions., Except for 2009, this team has been bad offensively in the playoffs….they don’t take advantage oftentimes of scoring opportunites. So yes, I think some changes need to be made.
If I recall Clemens said he didn’t want to do that to Red Sox fans by picking the Yankees
Ruby Friday
Dummy
The Clinton’s home is in Chappaqua NY state, their daughter was married in Red Hook NY a few months ago.
“People really got spoiled by winning last year. This team had the best offense in baseball and made it to the ALCS, yet there are major problems with this team?
How is that a reasonable conclusion?”
I hear you. But it all depends on the definition of success/major problems, no? Best offense in Baseball in the regular season doesn’t cut it if The Yankees’ definition of success is winning the World Series. I didn’t say it was my definition but it’s Cashman’s and the Steinbrenner’s definition. If that’s how they play it, then yes, there were holes in this team because they didn’t win it all and frankly weren’t even very competitive in the ALCS.
“Trisha baby, I’ll help you feed the chickens anytime.”
You”re hired.
“It’s a wonderful time to be a Yankee fan. I love this team.”
You are absolutely right.
I hope the young folks who started following the team only from the dynasty years recognize that.
Be back in a while.
Y’all be good to Tuesday now, ye hear? I want it around just long enough to get the goods!!!
CB, I agree that this season can not be classified as a failure. I mean, they made it to within 2 games of the WS. It was a disappointment in some regards because they didn’t play up to their potential, but a failure? No way.
The whole baseball world got to see how good Cano is – he’s special. Seeing Andy do his thing was special. The man is getting better as he ages……and although Lee got ALL of the hype and Andy was made out to be nothing, Andy went toe to toe and pitched so well. Granderson is going to be a dynamic player for us. Watching Kerry Wood’s resurgence was a pleasure; I’m a fan for life now, wherever he goes.
Dreamin, everybodys Dreamin……………………..of Cliff Lee. Keep Dreamin.
Jeter is as close to a living Yankee legend as it gets and its not like he can’t play baseball anymore. I’m not saying it’s a case of Dimaggio’s ego, but the contract is about the value of Jeter’s legend and lifetime contribution. Negotiating too sharply over money when it comes to Jeter looks and feels cheap and undignified, IMO.
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I always saw them in three categories. Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle are in the mythical category. Ford, Berra, Dic key, Jeter, Rivera in the legendary category. Munson, Howard, Maris, Posada, Murcer, Pettitte, Williams and O’Neill in the close to greats (as Yankees).
It’s rumored the Nationals are going to throw big $$$ at Lee.
If that’s true, the negotiations with Lee will look more like the Tex negotiations than the CC negotiations.
Cashman will have to play the market rather than set the market.
Girardi used the word “we” in reference to the 2011 Yankees during after game interviews. He’ll back and it will be announced before the 1st game of the WS.
Can’t be so sure about Rob Thomson who may land elsewhere. The rest of Girardi’s coaching staff should remain intact.
Trisha when you get back, ‘Love Me Tender’ song please.
I don’t think Cliff Lee is a lock like everyone is assuming.
Most of us are not assuming Lee is a done deal………..and no way Lee is going to the Nationals.
A la Billy Martin, Joe Torre coming back to actually ‘LEAD’ this team in 2011.
if sj44 says they are getting lee then they are getting him
Hit the nail on the head Betsy.
Ruby,
The Clinton’s have homes in NY and Washington DC.
They no longer reside in Arkansas.
Read a couple of articles this morning, the Lee maybe comfortable in staying in Texas one is interesting. He doesn’t really have to play the game of putting out disinformation since he knows the Yanks will pay him what he wants, so he to some degree right now must believe it.
Never really seen the Yanks dominated like this, it’s what I remember the Wells, E Duque, Cone teams doing to the Rangers and Cleveland. Lots of question marks right now but like the article said we are in the grief period and it’s going to be a long offseason for the Yanks.
Hate to burst your bubble, RF, but Cash is about to re-sign Girardi AND give him a raise. I know, I hate it, too.
My thoughts are that Derek will sign a 3-year deal for nearly the same yearly salary as he gets now plus a personal services clause. He doesn’t need to play into his 40′s. He’ll get his 3,000
hits next year and will gradually wind down and add to other records.
He would never stick around enough years to pass Pete Rose’s 4,256 hits. No need to. He has nothing to prove except adding rings.
In spirit, thank you.
“but the contract is about the value of Jeter’s legend and lifetime contribution. Negotiating too sharply over money when it comes to Jeter looks and feels cheap and undignified, IMO”
I do not think Money on short term contract is an issue.
It is about a long term contract with a high value, which is detrimental to the team.
Ultimately team matters more than any individual player legend or not.
Having said that if Jeter is willing to play year by year like Pettitte did he will get paid his money until he is productive. If he is not prodcutive he has to graciously retire. If his 2011 is similar to 2010 or worse, then certainly Jeter has to rethink about conutinue playing as an every day player.
Girardi needs to go manage in Mexico permanently.
Ruby Friday October 23rd, 2010 at 11:20 am
Dreamin, everybodys Dreamin……………………..of Cliff Lee. Keep Dreamin.
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Lee alone would not solve the problem, but it would be a big step. The Yanks are looking at probably another 3-4 issues or holes if you want to call it that where they need to strengthen the team for another run.
Mariano is year to year. If Andy comes back he goes out at the same time as his longtime battery mate, Jorge.
Where is my cousin Tuesday ??
If Lee wins a WS w Texas and gets an offer not much lower than NY, he may stay in Arlington to not look like a Mercenary that is only about money. Also lower state taxes and Nolan Ryan I’m sure will have a great sales pitch. Better shot of Lee leaving if Texas loses the Fall Classic
tampayank October 23rd, 2010 at 11:33 am
If Lee wins a WS w Texas and gets an offer not much lower than NY, he may stay in Arlington to not look like a Mercenary that is only about money. Also lower state taxes and Nolan Ryan I’m sure will have a great sales pitch. Better shot of Lee leaving if Texas loses the Fall Classic
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Yanks will offer Lee what he wants to jump ship. I don’t think it’s a money issue but maybe a mind issue. Lee ptiching game one and then coming back for 5 gives Texas a great edge. Lee is better than Halladay if it gets to that.
SJ44 October 23rd, 2010 at 10:33 am
Well punk, why don’t you do this….
See how it plays out, then get back to me.
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I’m glad I’m a “punk” for disagreeing with you. How very civil. Next time I’ll reconsider before I dare disagree with you.
the offense needs tweeking but the rotation is in desperate need. They have to get a #2 starter and a #3 starter. And if Pettitte is going to be one of those guys…then no crying when he gets hurt again. He’s great when healthy but there’s always the probability of injury with him. Depending on him just isn’t prudent.