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Girardi: Jeter can still “be the player he’s been”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 26, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Don’t forget, Sam and I are hosting a chat today at noon. Obviously, there’s plenty to talk about after the Yankees postseason exit, the decision to not bring back Dave Eiland and the pending offseason moves. We’ll be right here at noon. Stop by. Until then…

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballA few notable leftover comments about Derek Jeter from Joe Girardi’s press conference yesterday.

On keeping Jeter at shortstop
“That’s something we’ll continue to discuss. Everyone talked about Derek’s offensive numbers this year, and I thought he swung the bat pretty well in the month of September and the playoffs for us. He had a tough month, but I’ve also talked about that we played him more than we wanted to, when Alex went down and fighting for our division. We had to play him more than he wanted to. But I still think he’s a very good player… This is a guy that has a pretty good skill set, so right now I’m not assuming that he’s changing positions.”

On dropping Jeter from the top of the order
“That’s not something that I’ve put a lot of thought into at this point. By asking that question, I think you’re assuming that he’s going to hit .270 again. It might be a year when he hits .325 and you’ll be talking about the Derek Jeter that we saw the year before. I really haven’t gotten into that. We don’t know exactly what our team is going to be next year. We’ll make those decisions. That’s something that I’ll think (about) months down the road.”

On Jeter playing more than expected
“I think we had some stretches where he played like 27 out of 28, and we weren’t able to DH him, and it’s not something that you necessarily want to do. It’s not something we wanted to do to Alex either. Alex went down and it became a little more difficult not to pencil his name in the lineup. It’s not something I would assume we would do next year.”

On Jeter’s skills possibly fading
“As a manager, when you sit down and think about things, you know it’s possibly going to happen. You do. You don’t necessarily think it’s going to happen tomorrow, though. I still believe that Derek can play at an extremely high level and be the player that he’s been. But eventually it happens to all of us. It happened to me, and I’ve seen other players it’s happened to.”

 
 

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168 Responses to “Girardi: Jeter can still “be the player he’s been””

  1. LGY October 26th, 2010 at 9:12 am

    People have gotten way too caught up in this Joba thing. That they have up on him or just because he struggled they nailed ship.

    The Yankees are in the business of winning WS. Not in developing every single young pitcher they have.

    It was never just about one year.

    The Yankees have to make tough decisions all the time on kids future. This is not a novel idea to Joba. Determining he is not cut out to be able to handle and pitch well over the course of 200 plus innings.

    Fans better get used to these type of decisions. The Yankees are stocked with arms. Some will start for them some will get traded and start for other teams and some will be sent to the bullpen.

    The Yankees will determine this distribution based on how they project these kids in the future and more importantly wher they best fit to maximize the Yanks chance of winning every year.

    The Yankees feel the team is best with Joba in the bullpen. They didn’t give up on him. That is just how they feel and more decisions like that are coming so get ready.

  2. blake October 26th, 2010 at 9:13 am

    I think Jeter bounces back next year. Maybe not to 2009 numbers but somewhere between 09 and 2010 is where I would place my bet.

  3. Bret The Hitman October 26th, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Doreen,

    Yes, same time zone. He was scouring the Internet last night searching for the inside scoop (as if he was gonna find any information). He called me to tell me that people were saying Eiland is the one who gave AJ a black eye. lol…and that’s the reason why Eiland was fired.

    I was like, they would’ve fired Eiland on the SPOT if he attacked a player.

    He was like, “Oh, yeah…you’re right…Lemme search some more and see what I can find out…I’ll call you back”

    Thank God he never did.

    I think he’s going through Yankees withdrawal…happens every year.

  4. Erin October 26th, 2010 at 9:15 am

    blake-I think Jeter will have a much better year next year too.

  5. LGY October 26th, 2010 at 9:17 am

    I should admit one of those people was me last winter. But I saw the light on this Joba situation when Hughes won the 5 spot :)

  6. JM October 26th, 2010 at 9:19 am

    blake,

    i also think jeter will bounce back next year. i think he was hurt a bit more than he ever let on and i also think he’ll work with k. long (assuming of course that k. long returns) to make adjustments.

    i agree he probably will never hit those 2009 numbers again, but i expect him to bat .280 or .290….

    And I am definitely suffering Yankess withdrawal. I find myself thinking during the day, oh, who are the Yanks playing tonight? Oh yeah, they’re not playing again until February. :(

  7. pat October 26th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Leigh Teixeira may need to call Kristen Lee and tell her Dallas shopping is worse than Newberry St. in Boston. :wink:

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....gers_N.htm

  8. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 9:22 am

    LGY-

    What you say about Joba is understood.

    And the Yankees are the experts on their own players.

    And their will be many more decisions on our young players- some popular some not.

    All that said, it won’t stop some of us from wondering “what if”.

    The Yankees are always in “win now” mode. Maybe, just maybe, that doesn’t always lead to a sufficient amount of patience with the young ones.

    And by the way, I’m not a prospect hugger and I know that some farm hands are just going to be trade chips so please don’t accuse me of that.

    That’s just my 2 cents Dejo. ;)

  9. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    Bret the Hitman

    Yankee withdrawal is what led me here in 2006. :)

  10. JM October 26th, 2010 at 9:29 am

    #Erin October 26th, 2010 at 9:15 am
    blake-I think Jeter will have a much better year next year too.

    _________________________________________
    Great minds….. :)

  11. JM October 26th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Doreen,

    I saw your post in the other thread about the frustration of watching Joba pitch.

    I went to 10 games in 2009 and unfortunately for me I saw Joba pitch three times (bad timing on my part, I suppose). I would joke that I wanted to pull my hair out watching him.

    He invariably would have one or two innings where you saw great stuff and he totally dominated, then he’d start nibbling around the edges, walking people, pacing on and off the mound, brushing off Po’s signs, etc. It was enough to drive my friends and I crazy, and to convince me that he just didn’t have the make-up to be a starter.

  12. LGY October 26th, 2010 at 9:32 am

    MTU

    Definitely. Joba is the ultimate what if. As fast as he came onto the scene that electric stuff was gone just as quick.

  13. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 9:37 am

    JM -

    What is particularly frustrating is those one or two innings where he was brilliant! It’s so hard to understand. It’s like – it’s there! – and then – it isn’t. :(

  14. upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    you could just as easily be describing AJ :)

  15. Fran the original October 26th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    I think Joba was a victim of his own success. He burst onto the scene and was lights out for the Yankees. Went downhill from there.

    I do think he’ll be on the block this off season, but if he is not traded I hope a new pitching coach can straighten him out. Or maybe someone like Mariano can get through to him. Robbie credits his talk with Alex for getting him going this season.

  16. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 9:40 am

    LGY-

    Joba is a mystery right up there with “dark matter”, and the unifying principle of “Quantum physics”.

    A mystery wrapped up inside of puzzle.

    Actually, I just think he needs to get into tip top shape and mature some.

    There are many other great young arms to focus on in the Yankee system.

  17. blake October 26th, 2010 at 9:41 am

    JM, I.also think he was probably banged up a little more than was made public. I saw stretches in the last couple of months where he looked more like himself. I’ve never seen him out in front on pitches for as long a period of time as he was this season. I believe it was either from an injury that led to his swing getting out of whack, a very extended slump, or possibly a little loss of bat speed that he had trouble adjusting to….or possibly a combo of all of those things. Jeter has always been very good at making adjustments and I think he will next year.

    Full disclosure though. My views on Jeter are probably biased. He’s may favorite player and has been since he was a rookie in 96…..he’s my generations Mantle and its maybe hard for me to see or admit he may be slipping.

  18. blake October 26th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    MTU, have you started planning your offseason workout regime for Jobs yet?

  19. upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    yeah, I agree that Jeter was injured, but w/ all the other injuries to other players, there is no way he would take time off.

  20. JM October 26th, 2010 at 9:46 am

    upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 9:38 am
    you could just as easily be describing AJ

    _______________________

    I thought about that after I wrote it. And of course, this year I think I went to 9 games and I saw AJ pitch three times, including his wonderful performance on Old-Timers Day that led him to smash his hand up. And I didn’t see CC once. LOL.

  21. YES October 26th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    The problem isn’t hitting .270, if he hit .270 & drew over 100 walks as a leadoff hitter that would be more than acceptable.

    The problem is that not only does he not draw enough walks to get his OBP where it should be for a leadoff hitter, but he is too impatient & swings at the first pitch way too often.

    A leadoff hitter, especially in his first at bat should work the count & give the rest of the team a chance to see what that days starting pitcher is throwing. Jeter swings at the first pitch and grounds out way too often to lead off a game. Not to mention how may GIPD’s he hits into.

    If he remains at the top of the order, he HAS to be more patient and work the count more. Having said that, I think the Yankees should start hitting their younger players with more speed at the tip of the order, (Granderson, Gardner).

    I think with Grandy’s new swing he could hit 30-35 HR’s from the leadoff spot next yr., & Gardner is the perfect #2 hitter in that he takes alot of pitches which will give Grandy a chance to steal, has a high OBP, & is hard to double-up with his speed & hitting from the left-hand side.

  22. blake October 26th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Perhaps cashman needs to sit Joba down and have the same type of money related talk he had with Cano…..explain what he needs to do and how that affects him in dollar amounts….maybe he’s already had that talk….who knows.

  23. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Blake-

    Mt. Elbert in Colorado 3x’s a week, and the Canyon twice a week.

    If he survives that he’ll be in shape.

    If not, the West will have claimed another victim. :)

  24. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 9:52 am

    YES October 26th, 2010 at 9:47 am
    The problem isn’t hitting .270, if he hit .270 & drew over 100 walks as a leadoff hitter that would be more than acceptable.

    The problem is that not only does he not draw enough walks to get his OBP where it should be for a leadoff hitter, but he is too impatient & swings at the first pitch way too often.
    ———————–

    Jeter’s hitting style hasn’t changed since 1996 and it has suited him quite well over the years. Yes, he’s very aggressive and yes, that sometimes leads to lots of strikeouts, but no one was complaining about his abilities as a leadoff hitter last year were they?

    As for the notion that the Yankees would be better off hitting Granderson and Gardner at the top of the order – we saw Gardner at the top of the order; being there took away his speed because he didn’t want to chance being thrown out with the thumpers coming up behind him.

    People in general need to stop overreacting to one bump in the road. This team will not make any major changes, they aren’t going to bat Jeter in the bottom of the order they aren’t going to shift him to DH.

  25. blake October 26th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Jeter has never worked the count and has been quite successful. Asking.a player to suddenly change the style that has put them in the HOF mid season is difficult for them to get on board with.

  26. upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 9:53 am

    JM
    We go once a year as it is a 2 day adventure for us. We got to see AJ vs King Felix. My joke was at least we got to see a great pitcher, too bad he was pitching for the other team!

    YES
    I understand what you are saying, but IIRC, Jeter is most productive when he swings early in the count.

  27. upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    ok Chip and Blake are too fast for me :)

  28. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Joba is in desperate need of one of two things:

    A clearly defined role from now on
    A change of scenary

    Cashman said yesterday that after Joba lost the competition for the last spot in the rotation to Phil Hughes he went to Joba and told him, “you’re a reliever” and if that’s the end of it, then that’s fine. He can throw out his changeup and his curveball and spend this winter focusing on being a relief pitcher (and hopefully also getting in better shape).

    I really think that the biggest detriment to Joba has been thinking that he has to carry the weight of being either an ACE in the making or the heir to Mo. Let him just be himself, work in the pen and I think he’ll be fine. Sadly the former phenom is now Aaron Heilman, but so be it.

    On the other hand, we’re quickly approaching a point of no return with him. He’s up for arbitration this year and I think the club would be wise to consider options for dealing him while some teams still consider him either a starting prospect or a future closer.

  29. Fran the original October 26th, 2010 at 10:01 am

    If anybody is still interested in getting their WS predictions on Trisha’s chart, please post them on here. You have until 1 hour before Game 1 tomorrow night to get them in.

    I am going out but I will check back later for any predictions.

    Have a good day everyone :)

  30. The Genius Maker October 26th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    SJ stated that he wanted Mo to retire and the basic reason was because Soriano was available and Rivera was old and he should retire on top… SJ, this is one of the least thought out comments you have ever made.

    First, Mo has not shown decline, in fact, he just put up one of his 5 best seasons. he learned to run the fastball in on righties which allowed him to be better against righties this year. His ERA was the 5th best ever, his WHIP was the 2nd best of his career, His OPS against was the 5th best of his career, he pitched 3 innings in the postseason and allowed 2 hits with nothing else. You don’t throw that away because someone else who is 31 is a free agent?

    Soriano just had his best year of his career (it was a great year) and you know what, his OPS against was .509 compared to Rivera’s .493!

    Postseason numbers this year :
    Mo – 3 IP 2 hits, 0 runs
    Soriano – 3 IP, 4 hits, 3 runs and 2 HR’s

    I don’t expect this to continue with Mo, but 2 years ago I didn’t either. You ride Rivera at least one more year because retiring when you are still the best closer doesn’t make any sense. Seriously, would you rather have had Soriano or Rivera this year in the playoffs? Mo broke, what, 7 bats this postseason?

    You ride Mo at least one more year and see what happens and then you get whoever you want…I am still not shutting the door on Joba yet…he is still young and may get it, if not you get someone else, but hoping The Genius Maker retires is just folly and a classic case of always thinking the grass is greener elsewhere…oh and this is coming from someone who is a fan of getting rid of a guy one year too early rather than one year too late.

  31. Phil in Columbus October 26th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    I think Derek has atleast two more years at SS. He led the majors in fielding percentage and had the fewest errors of any fulltime shortstop. As far as his batting average, I think he needs to quiet his stance much in the way Swish did this year. One thing that Jeter does is dip his bat down as the pitcher is in his windup. I’m sure its a timing thing, but as the hands get slower he can’t get the bat back into into hitting position quickly enough.

  32. Yankee Trader October 26th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Jeter batted .246 against righties, .321 against lefties, and i’m guessing most of his DP’s were righthanded. I think he will be working diligently on his approach at the plate, but will nevertheless be dropped in the order against righthanded pitching.

    As far as trading Joba, a lot will depend on whether the Yankees sign Lee, and after reading the USA article posted by Pat @ 9:21, I’m not so sure it’s a done deal, especially if the Rangers win the WS. His wife was very complimentary of Dallas, and was not impressed with the Yankee fans sitting around her in YS. Read the article.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports.....gers_N.htm

  33. blake October 26th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    The only reason I wouldn’t mind seeing Rivera retire would be because it would take the possibility that we would ever have to see him struggle out of the equation. From a baseball sense though I still think he’s the best there is and hope he is back. I really think Mo will pull the plug himself when he starts to see the finish line…..so as long as he still thinks he can do it, so do I.

  34. The Genius Maker October 26th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    As for Jeter, he actually can work the count well because he is able to foul off a lot of pitches. he is too aggressive at times, but that is who he is. My belief is that they will calm down his bat like they did for Swisher and Arod a little. Jeter has slider bat speed now and has been behind the fastball and ahead of the breaking stuff all year. He is waving the bat with the bat head almost pointing at the pitcher (not quite the same as Julio Franco but toward that). This needs to stop and that will allow him to not have to cheat so much on the fastball. His balance was way off and he needs to stop all the moving parts.

    As I said 2 months ago, they should give him a 50% premium on what he would get out on the market and if that is not good enough say good bye…they will work it out. the real problem is that his defense is sub par at SS, but the only place he has any value would be in the OF. He could be a RH platoon LF’r and because he tracks balls well would probably be a good OF’r, but some have suggested he play DH and I don’t think he hits enough for that. All that being said, I expect Jeter to hit better next year before we start to see the decline to retirement.

  35. Bronx Jeers October 26th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    It bums me out a bit to be talking about Jeter as he negotiates his way down the hill.

    Before you know it I’ll be in here yelling at some wise**s just born yesterday that I was painting the town red while Jeter was making his bones earning a ring per year.

    Time stand still dammit !!

  36. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    GB7 -

    Good movie – “Big Leaguer.” :)

  37. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    IMO, Joba had too much success too quickly, and thought he didn’t have to do anything but show up to be successful.

    In plain English, he got lazy. In the off season he hung out at bars, drank too much, and got fat.

    He either starts on the rode to maturity, gets in shape, and learns how to pitch with consistency, or he’ll be history with the Yankees.

    None of us are privy to conversations that the coaching staff has had with Joba, but, I would be surprised if these issues were not already touched upon with Joba.

  38. The Genius Maker October 26th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Phil in Columbus, I obviously agree about Jeter…Blake I also agree about Rivera and it will be hard to see, but you can’t throw out the best closer in the game just because he is old. the guy has amazing mechanics…I actually worry a little about Eiland though as he seemed to work well with Mo. He made the tiny adjustment to Mo at the end of the year that helped.

    I never thought Mo would still be the best at this age; in fact, I thought he would need to learn a changeup to stay this effective…he amazes me.

  39. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 10:14 am

    road ** not rode **

  40. SJ44 October 26th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    First off, if you are going to quote me, do it accurately.

    I said that I prefer that if Mo retires, it’s this year instead of next year because of the availability of Soriano as his replacement.

    Using post-season sample sizes to make your argument is dumb.

    If you want to play that game, one could argue Mo’s 3 blown saves in September cost the Yankees the division. Why don’t you make that argument if you are going to use small sample sizes?

    My point with Mo is simple. IF he is looking to retire, I would rather it be this year rather than next year because 1 post-season inning notwithstanding, Soriano is a natural fit to replace him.

    If Mo wants to come back, of course you welcome him back.

    However, if he comes back, they need to have someone pitching 8th innings that can be reliable.

    One thing we see now is that Mo’s days of pitching 2 innings and bouncing back easily are gone.

  41. Rich in NJ October 26th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    LGY

    Developing starters makes the business of winning WS a lot more realistic.

    Cashman probably had that in mind when he said only a few years ago that the Yankees would no longer have to sign free agent starters (and take the accompanying significant financial risk) because of their pipeline of young pitchers, featuring the big three.

    So it’s fair to critique Joba’s development and usage pattern using that prism.

    We are talking about a young pitcher who was dominant until his shoulder injury.

    It’s not like the Yankees have a great track record of developing starters, and with a new pitching coach coming in, it’s possible that he can get more out of Joba than Eiland did.

    As a result, I think they are making a mistake by foreclosing the option of Joba as a starter, especially when one of their starters will be AJ Burnett.

  42. Phil in Columbus October 26th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    BIG AL, I think you are right on about Joba getting lazy and spending too much time hanging out. He has a weight problem and has to address it this off season. Maybe he needs to spend the winter with Arod or Swisher and learn how to get in shape. The only problem with that is Joba doesn’t know how to balance his personnel life and baseball life.

  43. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 10:19 am

    Al-

    “I would be surprised if these issues were not already touched upon with Joba.”

    Until the coaching staff was blue in the face probably.

    You know as well as I do that you can’t just “talk” someone into maturity. People mature at different rates. Some people seem almost born mature. Others are immature well into adulthood.

    In the Yankee Universe there is no time for the second type.

    It’s pretty much a perform or perish type of operation.

    Small market teams are where that tends to be found in abundance.

    Ands that’s because they have very little choice.

  44. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Yes it was, Doreen. That was the way the early instructional leagues and tryout camps were put together. Baseball had a rule back then about when training camp could start. Stengel and some others came up with this thing called instructional school to circumvent the rules. That’s where Stengel first saw Mantle in 1951. Mantle made the trip north out of what was the equivalent of the FSL Tampa Yankees team.

    They used to have these foot races and Mantle was winning by such a wide margin that they thought he was jumping the gun. Stengel made him start 10 feet behind the others and he still beat them.

  45. blake October 26th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Genious maker,

    He still has that pitch in his back pocket …he throws it some usually in ST and it always looks effective. I would trust Rivera to decide when he’s done.

    Regarding jeter…I agree that simplifying his swing could possibily give him a little more time and allow him to wait a bit longer…the trouble is that he’s always been sort of a non-textbook type hitter so those adjustments may be more difficult to make with him than with other players. I really do think he will evolve and be better at the plate next year though.

    Defensively I think he’s better than he’s given credit for. He doesn’t have the best range but he never has and I think he makes up for that somewhat by being very surehanded and the intangibles he brings to the position (such as picking Andrus off in the playoffs)…he obviously can’t play there forever but I think he was fine and more than adequate last year.

  46. Rich in NJ October 26th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Deciding that a player is lazy without actually knowing him is a fool’s errand.

  47. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Doreen, have you ever seen “fear strikes Out” with Anthony Perkins and Karl Malden? Great viewing…about Jimmy Piersall.

    Some funny stories about Piersall and Billy Martin and their fist fights.

    That movie is coming up this afternoon.

  48. Joe from Long Island October 26th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Big AL – I don’t know about the laziness aspect, but I do know that something changed with Joba, big time. Further, it’s been reported that Joba has had multiple meetings, with everyone imagineable – Posada, Alex, Mariano, Eiland, Pena, Girardi, Cash, the ball boy…..

    That conversation that Cash says he had with Cano, where he showed him the diagram of different players’ strike zones and their salaries written next to their names, seemed to have worked with Robbie. As Cash says, you’ve got to speak their language.

    I can’t imagine they haven’t spoken that language with Joba. But, sometimes, you can only help someone if they want to be helped. If it’s frustrating for us fans, it must be doubly so for the Yanks’ coaches and Cash, not to mention the players when they see him struggle.

  49. Rich in NJ October 26th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    “…I think he was fine and more than adequate last year.”

    I disagree, blake, but he is the best SS they have offense/defense, and until that changes, he should remain at SS.

  50. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    SJ -

    As I said yesterday; I can see your point on Soriano, but next year’s crop of free agent closers isn’t bad (Jonathan Broxton and Papsmear head the list).

    Also there obviously won’t be enough rotation spots for Brackman, Phelps, Banuelos, and Betances to make the club as starters so the Yankees could opt to start transitioning one of them (Banuelos or Betances) into a relief role.

    The problem is going to be that Yankee fans, the ones who opine that Mo is done when he blows a couple of saves, are going to unfairly expect whomever replaces Rivera to be as good as Rivera and that’s not possible. They will boo him without mercy if he’s not perfect and that can get into a pitcher’s head. It will be worse – I think – if Mo’s replacement is a high profile free agent.

  51. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    I won’t say that Joba is “lazy.” I will say he’s obviously not in great shape, but heck, neither is CC. Some guys just are just built different than others are and they carry extra weight.

  52. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Yankee Trader October 26th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    I’m not so sure it’s a done deal, especially if the Rangers win the WS. His wife was very complimentary of Dallas, and was not impressed with the Yankee fans sitting around her in YS. Read the article.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports…..gers_N.htm

    **************************************************
    Thanks for that link. When you read the entire article, one would think Lee and his wife are set to stay in Texas.

    Perhaps we can all thank the morons at YS for their behavior in helping to make up their minds not to come to NY.

    I love the Yankees as much as anyone, but, when fans spit at and throw beer at the other teams family members, that discusses me.

  53. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    GB7 -

    I’ve not seen that one.

    I plan on keeping TCM on all day. :)

    I love your stories about Mantle. Back in his day I was a little girl with zero interest in baseball, beyond that I knew boys liked it. :)

  54. Rich in NJ October 26th, 2010 at 10:33 am

    I’d love to sign Soriano, and would trade someone like Swisher to clear payroll space, if Soriano would accept being a set up reliever for a year.

  55. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Chip -

    CC has always been big, and has pitched that way all his career, while Joba just got fat, there is a difference.

  56. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Later folks.

  57. Tom in N.J. October 26th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    If the Yankees thought Joba was lazy, chances are, you’d hear about it through the press.

  58. SJ44 October 26th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    Chip,

    Many Yankee fans have no idea how hard it will be to replace Mo.

    The burn rate for closers is as high as any position on the field.

    Papelbon is already showing signs of decline.

    Broxton got Torre’ed bigtime this year.

    Out of all the Core Four guys, I think Mo will be the most difficult to replace.

  59. Erica in NY October 26th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Doreen-

    I got my present yesterday.

    Thank you!
    Thank you!
    Thank you!

    I am totally torn as to whether I should eat them or treasure them forever.

  60. Erica in NY October 26th, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Tom in N.J. October 26th, 2010 at 10:35 am
    If the Yankees thought Joba was lazy, chances are, you’d hear about it through the press.

    ****************

    Hideki Irabu memories come flooding back

  61. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    And who replaces Swisher? Curtis or Melky Cabrera?

  62. Rich in NJ October 26th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    “Out of all the Core Four guys, I think Mo will be the most difficult to replace”

    There won’t even be a close second.

  63. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    Big Al -

    Had the same reaction to the USA Today article. We all know that wives play a big part in the decision-making when it comes to the lifestyle portion of what team to play for.

    Sounds like Mrs. Lee is very comfortable with the distance from Arkansas and those rude Yankees fans didn’t help matters at all. We know Mrs. Teixeira had some input when it came to making the choice between NY and Boston.

    Only thing is, if Cliff Lee is a Yankee, she wouldn’t be subject to the same treatment, and I don’t believe that fans in other cities are saints.

    Still, we’ll have to see.

  64. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    On what basis do those above make the comment that Jeter will have a better year this time around? That he is at 36 going on 37, a year older with diminishing bat speed and range?

    Interesting that Girardi said this on keeping Jeter at shortstop:

    “That’s something we’ll continue to discuss”.

  65. Joe from Long Island October 26th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Big AL – I can’t get the USAToday link in my office. However, I think every ballpark has jerks. That’s the sad truth.

    Fortunately, there’s a break before FA starts. When it does, the things that will count will be 1) the neighborhood where the Lee family would be living 2)the neighbors there (I understand the Sabathia’s are a wonderful family), 3)Mrs. Lee’s seat would be slightly different at the Stadium, should her husband sign with the Yanks, and 4) the Benjamins. Lots and lots of Benjamins.

  66. SJ44 October 26th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Cliff Lee is not going to make his future decision based on emotion.

    He will make it like he pitches……in an efficient, business-like way.

    In other words, make the biggest offer and his wife will forget all about some dumb fans in the stands during a playoff game.

  67. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Erica -

    You’re very welcome!

    I had the same dilemma at first, but then I realized I can order more!!!

    I finished mine yesterday. My plan was to make them last throughout the WS. Oh, well. :(

  68. blake October 26th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    “Torried up” …..lol

  69. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Rich -

    No way Soriano is going to want to be a set-up guy for a year; my guess is that he’s closing for the Angels next year.

    And the Yankees, after years of giving closer money to set up pitchers (Karsay, Farnsworth) I don’t think are going to go that route anymore.

    My suggestions for the pen:

    Assume Kerry Wood isn’t coming back – based on his performance with the Yankees some team will offer him a closing job.

    Sign Randy Choate and Scott Downs to join Boone Logan from the left side. In addition to being a strong lefty reliever, Downs would likely be the Yankees primary set-up man for Mo.

    These are two pitchers who, among other things, are familar with the AL East and have had success in their roles in it.

    From the right side, I bring back Mosley, dump Mitre and Gaudin. I don’t think you can count on Aceves coming back, but you don’t have to go outside the organization to fill his spot. Someone like Ivan Nova could handle that Aceves role if he’s not needed in the rotation.

    So the configuration of the pen is:

    LHP: Logan, Choate, Downs
    RHP: Rivera, Joba, Robertson, Mosley/Nova

  70. Phil in Columbus October 26th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    Rich
    I don’t know why Yankee fans think that trading Swish is an option for the Yanks. He had a great year and is still just turning30 I believe. The one thing about players coming to New York is thier ability to handle it. Swish has shown he can fit in NY and has shown he is willing to work hard to make himself a better player. I know he had a tough ALCS. Yankees seem to do well with RF from Columbus. :)

  71. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    All this talk about Cliff Lee maybe not wanting to come to New York sounds quite familiar – I’m thinking back a couple of years when CC Sabathia supposedly wanted nothing to do with New York.

  72. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Mrs. Lee won’t have to put up with the idiotic “Antlers and Claws” crap. Looks more like a little league gimmick than a major league team.

  73. blake October 26th, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Its smart business to get the idea out there that he may stay in Texas….the more doubt there is, the more the Yankees will be forced to offer. He has no leverage if the perception is that he wants to come to NY and NY only.

  74. 108 stitches October 26th, 2010 at 10:50 am

    To a point the Yankees need to share some of the blame for what happened to Chamberlain. His burst on the scene in 2007 saw the Yankees “ride the wave” and rather than make a complete pitcher out of him just let him be what he was rather than spend a full year at AA or AAA levels to clip off the rough edges and reach major league maturity.
    They’ve since learned from it by slowly moving Delin Betances, Manuel Banuelos and others through the system at a pace better for their development

  75. Wave Your Hat October 26th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    The Yanks must sign Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte.

    Right now, if Andy were to retire and Cliff Lee were to go to the Rangers, I don’t see how the Yanks could cobble together a top flight rotation unless they make a blockbuster trade for a starting pitcher.

    The Yanks have the assets to make a blockbuster deal, given three tradeable outfielders and deep AAA level pitching.

    But that deal will inevitably end up weakening the Yank offense, which already has questions attached to it, such as:

    how much can Posada play?

    will Jeter bounce back?

    is Gardner’s first half or second half the real Gardner?

    will Granderson’s late success vs LHP continue?

    what will ARod do?

    can Cano maintain MVP-level offense?

    will Swisher maintain his 2010 offense or will it fall back toward his previous career norms without a corresponding increase in walks?

    But the offense will be what it is. First, the Yanks need to sign Lee and Pettitte.

  76. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    I look at the the Lee thing this way.

    This will be his last big paycheck.

    That will make it all about M-O-N-E-Y.

    In a few years he can retire to the lifestyles of the rich and famous
    anywhere he and his wife want to.

    For now you have to think they go with the green.

    JMTC.

  77. Erica in NY October 26th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Isn’t it Free Agency 101 to make statements to the press declaring your love for whatever team you are playing for?

  78. Phil in Columbus October 26th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Just have to wonder how much the Rangers will be willing to spend for Lee. I would have no problem giving Lee CC type money for 5 years. If the Rangers match that, more power to them.

  79. backbench October 26th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Eiland’s departure may be the best thing to happen for Joba. Eiland’s rise to the big team was in part due to his handling of the Kennedy/Hughes/Chamberlain experiment. There must have been a lot invested there.

    The new pitching coach will be able to be far more objective with Chamberlain.

  80. Erica in NY October 26th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Just to drive home my point about Free Agency 101-

    Here is an article from 2008 in which they talk about CC Sabathia’s love for Milwaukee

  81. Erica in NY October 26th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    I forgot to paste the link…. sigh

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2008/1.....0-million/

    CC Sabathia ♥ Milwaukee

  82. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 10:58 am

    GB7-

    I’m thinking about “Big Leaguer” and what I liked about it. It seemed to touch on all the baseball cliches – a kid from a mining community whose dad knows nothing about baseball and wants thekid to go to school, the kid from Latin America, the guy who doesn’t make one camp only to turn up on the rival team dealing, even up to the idea of baseball Annie (May-bel from Sioux City who has a thing for infielders). It even had the pretty girl aspect of old movies and the obligatory bathing suit. And yet it wasn’t hokey at all. Edward G. Robertson probably had a lot to do with that, as did the narration aspect of it. It really was well-done.

  83. Mell October 26th, 2010 at 10:58 am

    “All this talk about Cliff Lee maybe not wanting to come to New York sounds quite familiar – I’m thinking back a couple of years when CC Sabathia supposedly wanted nothing to do with New York.”

    Ditto. One difference though is you never really heard anything from the Sabathia camp before or during the free agency period, Amber Sabathia included. So all the talk of “he’d prefer California” was almost pure speculation. Nobody really knew anything.

    Mrs. Lee is actually being quoted here discussing her affinity for being so close to home and her disappointment in her visit to New York.

    Doesn’t necessarily mean anything in the end. All interested teams are going to be able to make their pitches, and the Yankees have excelled in this area in recent years, but I don’t think his coming to the Yankees is the foregone conlcusion that many do. I still see them as the favorite, but I think Texas could be a lot more than just a nuisance in this thing.

  84. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Erica-

    I’ve got another one.

    How about all the bullcrap surrounding Matt Holliday and how his dad always wanted to see him become a Yankee.

    Not blaming him but what does he do ?

    He takes the money.

    I learned a lot from that one about all the psycho babble which usually surrounds players and their so-called preferences.

    Money is rarely ever left on the table.

  85. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    SJ44 October 26th, 2010 at 10:39 am
    Cliff Lee is not going to make his future decision based on emotion.

    He will make it like he pitches……in an efficient, business-like way.

    In other words, make the biggest offer and his wife will forget all about some dumb fans in the stands during a playoff game.

    ***************************************
    When you read the entire article, Lee says if Texas wins the WS, it would be very hard to walk away. They both love being just a 40 minute flight away from home, and love the city they’re in now. Given this, and the Rangers statements about coming up with the money required to keep him, I’m not sure we just start fitting him for a uniform quite so soon.

    Remember, it was Tex’s wife that had a big input as to where he would sign, and being closer to home was inportant to them as well as the money.

    Stay tuned, it will be an interesting winter. We should all be pulling for the Giants to win the WS.

  86. tampayank October 26th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    “Chip says:

    October 26, 2010 at 10:44 am

    All this talk about Cliff Lee maybe not wanting to come to New York sounds quite familiar – I’m thinking back a couple of years when CC Sabathia supposedly wanted nothing to do with New York.”

    That’s b/c the Yanks offer wasn’t close to being matched, if the Dodgers offered him the same deal he probably never ends up in Pinstripes. I remember following his FA process and it took a lot of money and convincing from Reggie Jackson and others for it to happen

  87. 108 stitches October 26th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    GB-7

    The funniest part in the Fear Strikes Out flick is watching Anthony Perkins lunge or thrust himself at the ball with his glove poorly positioned for a fly ball.
    Anthony Perkins could never be mistaken for an athlete.

  88. G. Love October 26th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    I actually think Cliff Lee’s wife just added an additional “Yankee tax” to the Yankee offer by calling out fans for their behavior.

    I’m a little surprised and also not surprised if what she’s saying is true.

    Where I was sitting I didn’t see anyone spitting on anyone or throwing beer. What I did see was two Ranger fans in Ranger garb stand up and wave Texas flags as the Yankees were getting their heads handed to them.

    Of course this led to a chant of a word that I can’t post here. I saw an older Yankee fan walk over to the two kids in the Ranger garb and calmly tell them to cool it off before the drunk idiots around them started escalating things. They listened to him and they sat down and watched the game.

    Outside of that incident, I saw nothing but frustration from Yankee fans. But I didn’t see spitting and I certainly didn’t hear anyone cursing out the Rangers at the top of their lungs. The fans were more upset with how the Yankees were playing and were angry at them and Girardi.

    There are a lot of 20 something Yankee fans that get tanked at the games and act like thugs, but I can’t imagine that’s only a NY thing.

    Cliff Lee played for Philly last year. You can’t tell me their fans were choirboys.

    And I’ve been to Cleveland Indian games in Cleveland and I can tell you they get drunk and stupid there. I wore my Yankee hat to games there and there’s always some idiot giving me a hard time. The majority of the fans were nice though.

    Lee’s wife’s comments could be genuine, but they also could be a negotiating ploy to get Texas to go higher and closer to the Yankees and get the Yankees to pay a “sin” tax for their boorish fans according to her.

    I guarantee there are just as many drunk loudmouths running around Arlington stadium as they are in NY.

  89. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 10:58 am
    GB7-

    I’m thinking about “Big Leaguer” and what I liked about it. It seemed to touch on all the baseball cliches – a kid from a mining community whose dad knows nothing about baseball and wants thekid to go to school, the kid from Latin America, the guy who doesn’t make one camp only to turn up on the rival team dealing, even up to the idea of baseball Annie (May-bel from Sioux City who has a thing for infielders). It even had the pretty girl aspect of old movies and the obligatory bathing suit. And yet it wasn’t hokey at all. Edward G. Robertson probably had a lot to do with that, as did the narration aspect of it. It really was well-done.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, it was one of the better baseball themed movies. Carl Hubbell makes one of his 8-10 baseball movie appearances in it, as did Al Campanis……before he shot his mouth off on Dateline.

  90. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    108 stitches October 26th, 2010 at 11:01 am
    GB-7

    The funniest part in the Fear Strikes Out flick is watching Anthony Perkins lunge or thrust himself at the ball with his glove poorly positioned for a fly ball.
    Anthony Perkins could never be mistaken for an athlete.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Perkins was horrible for the choice of Jimmy Piersall, other than he looked like him. The one actor that was as lousy as an athlete, surprisingly, was Gary Cooper as Lou Gehrig. Little know fact….as bad as Cooper looked swinging the bat, he looked even worse batting left handed. They shot the film with him batting right handed and running to third base, sewed the numbers and lettering on the uniforms backwards and then reversed the film.

  91. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    One thing we can all be happy about with respect to Lee.

    We can thank our lucky stars that Scott Boras does not represent him.

    If that were the case we would be waiting until at least Xmas, if not later, and be forced to pay even more for his services.

    The real or imagined bidding war that Boras would generate would be absolutely frightening to behold.

    I am very grateful that he isn’t involved.

  92. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Free agency is almost 100% about the money (there are always exceptions), and yet money is NEVER discussed and a player NEVER says, “I’m here because they offered me the most money.” It’s actually pretty funny listening to the stuff about how they always dreamed of being a “fill in the blank” or how much the trading of the team means to them. I have no doubt that there is maybe an ounce of sincerity in such statements. But for the most part, I don’t believe a word of it! It sure would be refreshing for someone to just say, “I’m taking the money,” but oddly enough, I don’t think this would go over well with fans, even though they think it’s what they want to hear at least once.

  93. upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    wait a minute…Cliff Lee pitched in Philly…world’s worst fans…I don’t recall ever hearing that Yankee fans ever vomited on anyone

  94. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Actually, on second thought, Johnny Damon has always been pretty honest about going for the best deal he could get.

  95. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 11:12 am

    MTU -

    Yes, you may be correct, and it’s all about that last big pay check.

    At what point does it make a big difference, if Texas was to offer 6 years at $22 mil, and they loved the city and team, or the Yankees offered 6 years at $24 mil?

    When you make that much money, to me, I’d rather play where I feel most comfortable, and close to home.

    Having $132 mil over 6 years vs. $144 mil over 6 years, would not make a difference to me, because, if invested properly, neither me, my kids, grandchildren, and so forth would never be needing.

  96. upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Doreen
    what are you saying? Johnny D didn’t really always want to play in Detroit?
    sorry Erica, don’t hiss at me :)

  97. Tom in N.J. October 26th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Maybe if TBS wasn’t constantly showing the players wives section on T.V….

  98. Mell October 26th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    “If that were the case we would be waiting until at least Xmas, if not later, and be forced to pay even more for his services”

    Don’t no how long hunting season is in Arkansas, but it apparently starts on 11/13. If he’s not locked up by 11/12, they may be waitin’ til X-mas anyway.

  99. G. Love October 26th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    Big Al,

    12 million dollars is a ton of money. I don’t care who you are or how much you make. 12 million is A LOT.

    Would you leave 12 million just sitting on the table?

    Watch. Once the season is over and Cashman brings Mrs. Lee to NY and she gets good seats to Wicked and Jersey Boys and gets to meet the cast, meet the mayor and a celebrity chef and shop at Barney’s she’ll feel differently when they offer more than the Rangers.

  100. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    upstate kate -

    Oh, yeah, I forgot about his Detroit “shirt ceremony.” (I almost typo-ed “ceremoney.” :lol: )

    Yeah, even Damon, in front of the cameras, gives the same hooey. :)

  101. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    This Cliff Lee drama is going to play itself out like a feature film. In every good movie you have a turning point, where the hero comes to a significant crossroad, where they have to make a decision, go right or left, which then effects their character arc and the rest of the story. Sometimes it’s moral, other times practical. This time Lee isn’t being traded, he will make the choice and New York and Texas could not be more different.

    Also, good movies often present the unexpected, where the opposite of what one expects happens. Everyone talking about Cliff Lee becoming a Yankee is a perfect example of that. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lee chooses either ball club, but steel yourself the Rangers have a lot going for them.

    - The Rangers have plenty of money, Nolan Ryan, no income tax, he’s playing in a world series so that removes the common argument that you have to go to the Yankees to have a chance to win a ring, it’s a short drive/flight to his home in Arkansas, much less pressure, friendlier people, sorry it’s true, ……..and most importantly IMO, the Rangers have a huge head start in the “wooing of Cliff Lee” department.

  102. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Never minded the cameras showing the players wives. The best ones were from the ’69 Mets with beautiful Nancy Seaver and the drop dead gorgeous Ruth Ryan.

  103. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    G. Love =

    Maybe they’ll substitute “Memphis” for “Jersey Boys.” ;)

  104. Wave Your Hat October 26th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    “- The Rangers have plenty of money, Nolan Ryan, no income tax, he’s playing in a world series so that removes the common argument that you have to go to the Yankees to have a chance to win a ring, it’s a short drive/flight to his home in Arkansas, much less pressure, friendlier people, sorry it’s true, ……..and most importantly IMO, the Rangers have a huge head start in the “wooing of Cliff Lee” department.”

    Maybe the Lees are Democrats…

  105. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    GB7 -

    And Ruth Ryan is still awfully pretty, isn’t she? (Nancy Seaver probably is too, but I haven’t seen her lately.)

  106. Tom in N.J. October 26th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    “SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -Baseball’s playoffs could be expanding in two years.

    The new head of the players’ union says his members are open to adding more wild-card teams for 2012 and possibly extending the division series to a best-of-seven.

    Union head Michael Weiner says it’s also possible players would agree to cutting the regular season from 162 games, but that’s more problematic because it would cost teams revenue.”

    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39844920

  107. Erica in NY October 26th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 11:13 am
    Doreen
    what are you saying? Johnny D didn’t really always want to play in Detroit?
    sorry Erica, don’t hiss at me

    ****************

    At the Detroit press conference I still think Johnny should have just said, “Yeah, Detroit is a great place. I really wanted to be a Yankee but I blew it. So for the next season your city and I are going to just make the best of things”

  108. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Al-

    I understand what you’re saying but you can buy a lot of extra comfort for 12 million bucks. It’s nothing to sneeze at.

    Wouldn’t you think that these people think differently than you or I might ?

    They are more like Hollywood types in the money and attention they get.

    I’ve never been a believer in being some sort of armchair psychoanalyst.

    But I do believe all of them are motivated by money.

    I’m a practical guy. And to me, at least, it would be the height of ridiculous to turn down 12 mil or more because of a temporary lifestyle situation.

    The Yankees offer a lot more than money. They offer the best facillity in baseball, a winning tradition that can’t be beat, and many, many other amenities.

    I think the Yankees are all in on this one. They pull out all the stops.
    I seriously doubt the Lee’s won’t be affected by it, and persuaded by it.

    We’ll see.

  109. Erica in NY October 26th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    I do want to disclose the following-

    I am 100% starting a campaign to bring Johnny Damon back as a bench player for the 2011 Yankees.

    Thank you for listening

  110. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Friendlier people?

    That’s quite a generalization.

    I would think that the people the Lees would be in contact with would be among the friendliest, yes, even in NY.

    I lived in the mid-west for a couple of years. The people are very “correct,” but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re friendlier.

  111. upstate kate October 26th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    well Erica there is an opening for DH/ part time OF…someone who knows how to play under pressure

  112. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:19 am
    GB7 -

    And Ruth Ryan is still awfully pretty, isn’t she? (Nancy Seaver probably is too, but I haven’t seen her lately.)

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Ruth Ryan is almost a rival for Ann-Margret.

    Yeah, RR is still one beautiful woman. The story behind the Ryan trade to the angels was the fact that Nancy Seaver was jealous of Ruth Ryan and Nolan Ryan’s bigger bonus check and told Tom to push to get Nolan traded. It was supposedly getting really ugly.

  113. tampayank October 26th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    “# Tom in N.J. October 26th, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Maybe if TBS wasn’t constantly showing the players wives section on T.V….

    there were a couple hot blondes in those shots, I didn’t mind :)

  114. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    Girardi’s contract could be done by close of business today.

  115. Hopdevil October 26th, 2010 at 11:27 am

    RE: the USA Today article…I agree with those that think it’s more of a “raise the price” type of comment. And honestly I can’t blame her…It’s not a secret that the Yanks NEED Cliff Lee and that they have the money to pay top dollar plus extra on top of that.

    If any starter has earned their big pay day over the past couple years it’s Lee. This is his chance to cash in and it would be foolish to not try to maximize the payout.

    I don’t think there is any question that the Yanks can and will offer Lee significantly more money than any other team. And – even though I believe it matters to a much lesser extent than the $$$ – it looks like the “intangibles” tip towards the Yanks as well (reference CC’s comments around the time of trade…comments like “I don’t think I’ll have to do much recruiting…he knows the deal here” etc.)

  116. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Wow, GB7 – I never heard that story. The story I heard was the Ruth Ryan simply wasn’t comfortable in NYC.

    But getting out of NY and the NL’s strike zone didn’t hurt Ryan much, did it? ;)

  117. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    Doreen-

    When you live the lifestyle of the rich and famous what difference does it make what the common folk are like ?

    When you have that much dough you can “insulate” yourself from as much of what you don’t like as you want to.

    People like these guys have no requirement to get down and dirty with the common folk. They can sit in sky boxes, eat at the fanciest restaurants, go to the best schools, have chaffeurs, etc.

    That is a reality of having big bucks.

  118. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    And with that last post, I just thought of something the Rangers have to offer that the Yankees dont. Nolan Ryan. I can just hear the pitch, “Cliff ol’ boy, you’re a country boy like me…”

    :?

  119. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Time to walk the DM’s. back in a while.

  120. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    MTU -

    So true. Never had to deal with the riff-raff!

  121. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    *** have to deal ***

  122. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    I hope I’m wrong, and everyone else is right, about the money being the most important factor in obtaining Lee.

    Remember, the Lee’s are basic country folks, and they might not think the same as them city folk.

    Just saying ………..

  123. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Doreen I grew up in New York City and love and appreciate the city and people. I also lived in Texas for a decade. I don’t like Dallas for a myriad of reasons, but being honest, the people are friendlier, more welcoming to strangers and are more engaging.

  124. Jerkface October 26th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    In my anecdotal experience, Texans have mostly been loud mouthed and racist.

  125. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:28 am
    Wow, GB7 – I never heard that story. The story I heard was the Ruth Ryan simply wasn’t comfortable in NYC.

    But getting out of NY and the NL’s strike zone didn’t hurt Ryan much, did it?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Ryan, like Randy Johnson and Sandy Koufax makes you wonder just how good they could have been and the numbers they could have put up had they had better control in their early days. Ryan, in particular. He had more than 30 games where he had over 200 pitches in the game. 12 one hitters and 7 no hitters. with control and a better offensive team, he may have topped 400 wins. Absolutely amazing.

  126. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    The lifestyles of the rich and famous in Texas are very different. They live in big sprawling ranches or mansions with acreage, they go to rodeos and livestock auctions and support 4H charities, and go to Bass fishing tournaments, etc. That may be a lifestyle that is important to Cliff Lee and his wife.

  127. Wave Your Hat October 26th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    WCYF-

    For $25MM a year you can do all that in Connecticut too.

  128. tampayank October 26th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    “# Jerkface October 26th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    In my anecdotal experience, Texans have mostly been loud mouthed and racist.

    maybe in small towns but Dallas is very ‘LA like’….more plastic than more would think…barbie dolls w/ plastic surgery walking around everywhere….the 40 minute flight home is a big sell especially w/ kids. don’t know what to think about this Lee FA…..if the Yanks don’t get him and Pettitte retires or is injured half the year, the rotation won’t be good enough

  129. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    One other point that seems to me is being over looked. With the Rangers advancing to the WS, they will have a ton of extra money that comes from the post season. If they believe that Lee can help get them there year after year, and the new TV deal starts bring in a lot more money, they will be in position to go very strong after Lee.

  130. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Jerkface October 26th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    In my anecdotal experience, Texans have mostly been loud mouthed and racist.

    ****************

    I agree that Texans are loud, everything is bigger there. And racism certainly rears it’s ugly head there and everywhere. Less so in Dallas of course than more rural areas. But NYC is certainly not a stranger to that. The most overtly racist neighborhood I think I have ever lived in was in Astoria, Queens.

  131. Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan,

    Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Not all Texans live like that… It’s not cool to characterize millions of people based on a silly stereotype

  132. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Wave Your Hat October 26th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    WCYF-For $25MM a year you can do all that in Connecticut too.

    ************

    No you can’t.

  133. GreenBeret7 October 26th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Yeah, there’s certainly no racism or obnoxious people in California, is there? Every area, every state has the same issues. Keep that crap out of here.

  134. Chip October 26th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    The quality of people in Texas vs. New York is not going to be a determining factor. Cliff Lee is more likely more interested in the lack of State Income Tax in Texas than the people.

    It means Texas can afford to pay him less because he won’t have to pay the same taxes he would if he played in New York.

  135. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:48 am

    Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan, Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Not all Texans live like that… It’s not cool to characterize millions of people based on a silly stereotype

    ***************

    I am not generalizing about millions of people in Texas, it’s large and diverse. What I am saying is that if that particular lifestyle is important to Cliff Lee and his wife, Texas is where they will find it not NYC.

  136. Wave Your Hat October 26th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    WCYF-

    Sure you can. Horse shows instead of rodeos (but they do have rodeos), country fairs and 4H shows, fly fishing instead of bass fishing, but the mansions with acreage are there, gun clubs, plenty of fancy folks.

  137. tampayank October 26th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    another factor that might come into play is July, August, and September heat in Arlington w/ o a retractable roof….pitching when it’s 105 out might not sound fun long term. If I was in his shoes and I didn’t pick the Yanks and wanted to be in the AL West, I would sign with the Angels, nice weather and good organization but that would piss off Rangers fans more than if he signed with the Yanks :)

  138. SJ44 October 26th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    I wouldn’t make the generalization that Lee is some hick because he lives in Arkansas.

    One of the reasons he was pumped to come to NY was because it was AWAY from home.

    If you are associated with the Lee camp, you KNOW the Yankees will be coming hard for your services.

    So, if you up the ante with some comments, you do it.

    Why not? The guy has waited his entire career to be in this position.

    The Rangers owner keeps mentioning “lifestyle” in his pitch for Lee.

    That means, he knows he can’t match Yankee dollars.

    As far as lifestyle is concerned, take a spin one day around Alpine, NJ, where the Lee’s would live.

    It puts any exclusive area around Dallas to shame.

    Arkansas is a two hour flight from Teaneck via private jet. Something the Lee’s can easily afford with their new contract.

    A third of the Yankee team either own private jets or are fractional owners via NetJets.

    Distance is not the impediment the article suggests it is.

  139. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    GreenBeret7
    October 26th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Yeah, there’s certainly no racism or obnoxious people in California, is there? Every area, every state has the same issues. Keep that crap out of here.

    ***********

    GB7. Sorry, you are not the blog commandant and you don’t get to tell me or anyone what to say or not say. You’re just another blogger here. Jerkface at 11:43 talked about racism in Texas and I was responding to him.

    Hope that’s clear.

  140. Hopdevil October 26th, 2010 at 11:51 am

    The lifestyle of a pro athlete during the season is going to the game nearly every night. No distinction between city and country folk during the season. Offseason is when that stuff matters.

    Does anyone think Andy Pettitte would be comfortable spending his offseason in NYC area? And yet he’s done very well playing for the Yanks over the years.

  141. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Cliff Lee is not going to be living in Texas or NY, only working there.

    He will have the life style he wants for himself and his family in Arkansas.

  142. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    GB7 -

    You’re talking to a stone wall, nothing gets through.

  143. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Wave Your Hat October 26th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    WCYF-Sure you can. Horse shows instead of rodeos (but they do have rodeos), country fairs and 4H shows, fly fishing instead of bass fishing, but the mansions with acreage are there, gun clubs, plenty of fancy folks.

    ************

    It’s not like living in Texas or Arkansas. Maybe you’re right – that may be just fine with Cliff Lee, I don’t know.

  144. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    WCYF -

    What I noticed in my brief time in the mid-west was very interesting. People were “correct” meaning they did all the outward things that are considered neighborly and nice. You went into stores and he clerks never let you know they were personally having a bad day. You move in and you have any number of neighbors at your doorstep with muffins welcoming you to the neighborhood. They definitely “do the right thing.”

    However, I also sensed an “arms-distance,” too. And a vanilla-ness that is very different from the east coast NY/NJ area were I’ve spent most of my life.

    The people were nice.

    But people here are nice, too. And people here also will do the right thing. They may not run over en masse with muffins and bagels, but at the school bus stop they will tell you the best place to get a hair cut or the best Italian deli around, and all the rest of that. Maybe you have to go to them, more than they’ll come to you. But I think that’s being respectful of privacy. I think it’s partially a geographical difference – in the midwest, historically, people lived farther apart, it was a farming community – people really depend on their neighbors. In “cities,” the pace of life is more hectic, people live closer together and needs are different.

    What I find is that people here wear their heart on their sleeve a lot more. Yes, you will know that the clerk at the store is having a really bad day. And sometimes that’s aggravating, but it’s also very human.

  145. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    I don’t know what Lee will do, and neither does anyone else.

    All I believe is that the Yankees will go all out to obtain his services.

    If that turns out to not be good enough then so be it.

    Lee is in the catbird seat. There will be no shortage of offers or choices to make.

    Of course, I hope he chooses the Yankees. ;)

  146. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    *********************************

    A really great post, you make some excellent points, kudos.

  147. Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    WCYF,

    Yes you did generalize an entire population based on your flawed idea of what people from Texas are like. You said the “rich and famous” lifestyle is . Have you ever even been to Texas? DO you know anyone from Texas? Get real man…

  148. Doreen October 26th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Cliff Lee and his wife wouldn’t be living in NYC. Outside the city, whether it’s upstate NY, NJ or Connecticut offers quite a diverse range of entertainment. And then the city is right there for when you’re in the mood for the cosmopolitan.

  149. murphydog October 26th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    As for Joba, what’s at stake is painfully obvious: as a reliever you’ll never make the money even a 5th starter makes over a career – - unless you are one of a handful of closers with lights out, swing and miss stuff and longevity. Knowing all that, Joba still pitches like Joba. IMO, not a lot to figure out. The evidence is out there; the rest is just hope.

    Hughes went to the bullpen last year and was lights out. He found himself. Joba goes to the bullpen this year and loses himself. Remember: he started out as a high risk, high reward guy, not with the same solid pitching pedigree as Hughes. Joba had his half-year of fame in 2007 and then couldn’t build on it. But if they are willing to start with a clean slate on him in 2011 (yes, four long years later), then bring him to ST as a starter and let him have another shot. I’m just not expecting much and I don’t think the Yankees are either. You can’t engage in magical thinking when all the evidence points the other way if you want to keep your job as a GM.

  150. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    WCYF,

    Yes you did generalize an entire population based on your flawed idea of what people from Texas are like. You said the “rich and famous” lifestyle is . Have you ever even been to Texas? DO you know anyone from Texas? Get real man…

    *************

    Yes. I lived in Texas for more than a decade, including almost three years in the Dallas-Ft.Worth Metroplex.

    How about you?

  151. ac1 October 26th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    KenDavidoff Come, on people! Mrs Lee: “I was highly offended.” #Yankees: “Here’s $150 million.” Mrs. Lee: “I forgive you.” #Rangers
    __

    some of our fans are just absolutely brain dead morons.

  152. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    murphydog October 26th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    *******************************************
    Me, I don’t believe the Yankees have any plans to give Joba a shot at being a SP again, but, if they did, he’d have to work the entire off season on his conditioning and arn strength. To date, Joba has shown no desire to do off season conditioning, and does not have what it takes to pitch more than 2 innings. As a SP, his veocity was way down, as compared to his being a RP, so perhaps he doesn’t think he can throw hard for 6-7 innings, but due to his lower velocity, he gets hard any way. This should be his sink or swim year, if he fails to do his job, he should be history.

  153. Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    How about you?

    Half of my family lives in Texas…

  154. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    I could be wrong but last time I checked there were good people and bad people scattered all over the Planet.

    They didn’t seem to be concentrated in any one place.

    Funny how that goes. ;)

  155. BIG AL October 26th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    There are even some good people in Utah, so I’m told.

  156. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Al-

    That’s a big lie. ;)

  157. Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    MTU,

    There are good people in Boston?! I don’t believe you…

  158. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Patrick-

    I’ll have to consult my charts for that one. :)

    Most probably yes.

  159. Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    MTU,

    My entire world view is now shattered…

  160. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Chad and Sam talking about Giambi, Damon possible acquisitions to share DH with Posada.

  161. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Patrick-

    Please don’t blame me. I’m just the messenger.

    Nothing stops any of us from engaging in irrational hatred towards a certain segment of the population though so feel free to carry on as you wish.

    Your world view can now be restored. :)

  162. Patrick October 26th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I’d prefer Montero to share DH with Posada….

  163. MTU October 26th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Al-

    You know there’s nothing out here but desert, polygamists, and rattlesnakes.

    No good can come of that.

  164. Bronx Jeers October 26th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    His wife was very complimentary of Dallas, and was not impressed with the Yankee fans sitting around her in YS.

    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    You know I’m not really impressed with the fans sitting around me either.

    As a whole, they’re quite unremarkable. :lol:

  165. West Coast Yankee Fan October 26th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Interesting chat with Chad and Sam – they do a good job.

  166. comet October 26th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Talking Cliff Lee, remember it’s the take home that is important so not only will the Yankees need to outbid Texas, they’ll need to do it by a fair margin to overcome the tax burden of living in NYC as opposed to Texas.

  167. 108 stitches October 26th, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Some particulars of the Texas Rangers sale ……………………..

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/0.....ark-cuban/

    It may have been a better situation for the Greenberg / Ryan duo buying the team. A maverick owner like Mark Cuban might have made every attempt to sign Cliff Lee minutes after the sale was final.
    Selig wanted no part of Mark Cuban as an MLB franchise owner.

  168. Gary October 27th, 2010 at 8:24 am

    I tend to agree and hope that Jeter will return to the great player he was, but you have to admit that time is going by for a number of the Yanks players. What’s the saying getting old is hell.

    I tend to listen less to Joe’s comments, his responses are very predictable.


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