The one who got away
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 27, 2010 
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First pitch of the World Series is just minutes away, and it’s the team that landed Cliff Lee that’s representing the American League.
On the morning of July 9, the Yankees seemed on their way to being that team. They had a deal in place, acquiring Lee for a package of prospects headlined by Jesus Montero. It was more or less a press release away from being done. The Yankees were — oddly enough — in Seattle at the time, and I just remember a long day of phone calls and text messages, and constantly refreshing the Twitter account of any writer who seemed plugged into the Mariners front office.
No need to rehash the whole thing here, but the short story is this: The Mariners were spooked by David Adams’ faulty ankle. They asked to change the package, and Brian Cashman said no. Adams had been on the disabled list for weeks, and it’s hard to imagine the injury came as a surprise. We’ll never know of course, but it’s easy to imagine the whole thing being a ploy by the Mariners.
Suddenly, the Rangers were in the mix, and Lee was on his way to Texas for a package built around Justin Smoak.
“I would do the same thing again,” Cashman said.
Here’s Mariners president Chuck Armstrong’s account of what happened that day:
“I went home Thursday night, thinking we had a deal with the Yankees,” Armstrong told the Seattle Times. “Pending an exchange of the physical information of the players involved. The next morning, when we got into the details of the physicals of the players involved, one of the players that was coming to us from the Yankees was disabled, and based upon the best medical information that our team medical director, Edward Khalfayan, had, he recommended that we not proceed.
“Jack (Zduriencik) and his people then spent some time with the Yankees trying to come up with an alternative player, or players, to replace that player. Or even players to be named later. If we could come up with that. In the meantime, other clubs became involved. The White Sox, Minnesota and Texas to name a few.”
Given the end results, it’s easy to second guess and wonder if Cashman should have agreed to the changes – apparently adding either Ivan Nova or Eduardo Nunez to the deal – but from an outside perspective, the whole thing seems odd. From the Mariners perspective, they were really shocked that Adams had a bad ankle? From the Yankees perspective, Nova or Nunez was a deal breaker?
It just doesn’t add up, and that’s coming from a guy who really likes both Nova and Nunez. Truth is, these deals generally have more to do with the biggest names involved, and if the Mariners preferred Smoak over Montero, then Lee was always going to end up in Texas.
Was it a turning point for the Yankees season? It very well could have been, but it also could have been Cashman being taken for a ride and refusing to participate.
“When you put yourself in a position to make decisions like that, you make them and you live with them,” Cashman said.
Associated Press photo of Lee
I didn’t even read this blog post as it’s too painful to think about.
To my pal up in the Bay Area, Nick in SF, congrats to you and all the good folks of San Francisco…..Just think Nick, back in March we took the Giants on the overs ( 83 )…….I’m hoping to zip up for tomorrow’s game, but definitely for Game 6……Where are you watching tonight ???/
World Series prediction: (from the game tonite)
GIANTS in 6.
** SF has the better bullpen.
** SF has home field, negating the DH for up to 4 games.
** SF has a better SP quartet.
Good pitching beats good hitting.
GO GIANTS ! !
Who is this Cliff Lee guy?
Never heard of him…
Wish Timmy would plunk Elvis in the buttocks for Yankee fans everywhere and then strike out the next 3 guys.
I have to wonder, if it was a team other than the Yankees competing against the Rangers for Lee, would Selig have approved (or allowed) the deal with all the rest of the details being exactly the same?
In retrospect, the way the Yankees were hitting (or not hitting) in the ALCS maybe even the addition of Lee would not have carried them over the top. Also, I can’t see why Seattle’s demand for Nunez was a deal breaker. Is he that good?
As you said, it’s a matter of principle and Cashman was being taken for a ride and didn’t like the having the honor of paying for it. Seattle ends up with a low contact hitter with a questionable glove and a pitcher that can’t be trusted around women and can’t have contact with children because he is will be now listed as a sexual predator.
The minute Smoak was offered, the Mariners made up an excuse to kill the Yankee deal. That’s fine. We’ll keep Montero and still have a chance at Lee.
If the Rangers can’t retain Lee then they traded away their first baseman of the future for 3 months of Lee and a trip to the WS. Which if they win it, maybe its worth it….but if they don’t then not so much.
If this game is going to be a rehashing of how the Yankees got beat up in the ALCS, I’m not going to be able to watch the WS.
I agree. If Cash would have upped the offer, Seattle would have made Texas up theirs.
They wanted Smoak all along.
1-0 Rangers, still 1st and 3rd, 1 out
This looks familiar…..
Adding Nova was enough and as far as David Adams injury goes that happened 2 months prior and they knew when they accepted the deal that it was fractured. There was no surprise, unless like the other part of the Texas deal, “nobody knew anything about it”. For them then to demand Nunez was insanity. He’s the only real insurance in the system for Jeter. Pena is and never will be more than a utility player.
I am seriously not going to be able to watch these Rangers. I can’t. I hate the claws, the antlers and the fact that when they don’t hit a ball well, it still works out for them!
And these horrendous FOX announcers – well, need I go on?
base hit, walk, dribbler, dribbler….1-0.
What was that?????
Yikes… now bases loaded.
Might be all Lee needs anyway
What the heck is Lincecum doing?
Lincecum not looking very sharp tonight. Its still early, but he doesn’t seem to have the control he normally seems to show. It might be nerves kicking in for the first game.
That wasn’t a smart play from Lincecum running Young back like that, he should have gotten the out. Just dumb playing there.
That deal was a carbon copy of the Bill Smith/Minnesota Twins attempted scam.
Boy Timmy is lucked up there.
I remember the story even without reading this – give me break about Adams, M’s. It’s not like they didn’t know about Adams’ injury; what, all of a sudden they found religion? If I recall, there was another pitcher invoved (Warren?) and the M’s at some point asked for another player…….which Cash agreed to. It was after that, when the M’s wanted Nunez that Cash refused to budge – and good for him. It’s way too simplistic and not at all correct to say that the Yankees failed because they refused to trade Nunez or Nova. I will say about Nova that although I’m sure they are high on him, they can’t keep holding on to all of these pitchers.
In any case, if the Ranger re-sign Lee, I will probably regret having Montero.
Whew!
The D picked up the dumb move by Lincecum there.
I thought Lindedum got hit in the leg, not his head. What was he thinking on that tap to him. Luckily he escaped further damage.
Montero slugged higher in AAA than Smoak and he’s 3 years younger.
when did Andrus become a 400 hitter? The Rangers are seriously the luckiest team in baseball
I think he was thinking that Vlad had advanced and he could just run him back to a force? I have no idea…..
Does anyone have a prozac for Betsy.
All I know is that if I never see Andrus and his giant teeth and silly running around the bases again it will be too soon.
Lincecum was prob stoned
Nova has never been non-expendable. The deal breaker came after the agreement was the attempt to start switching players and adding to them.
Lee grows a beard for the WS because he knows he won’t get to pitch with one again for 5 or 6 years.
what is up with those necklaces Texas is always wearing?
Someone just got a hit…….off Cliff Lee……no way.
Just watched Guerrero hobble over to that ball. That was ugly.
Pat M, is that you? If so……..well, I have nothing to say to you anymore. You just sunk to a level I never thought you’d go to.
This Rangers team reminds me of the 2002 Anaheim Angles.
Cashman sucks, he always does
Those necklaces are the phitin[titanium] necklaces that are supposed to ward off evil spirits.
Wow, awful baserunning. What was Sanchez thinking?
Ach!
Another mistake. You can’t make mistakes against Lee.
Lee is so good, he forces other teams to be overaggressive!
Texas reminds me a lot of the Jets. Whenever a team plays them they make mistakes that a junior high team wouldn’t make
Betsy is running out of people to talk on here with all of her denouncements.
where has cr9 been?
Aubrey Huff would have been the ideal fit on the Yankees this past season. He was one bat that I was hoping NYYs would have gone after last winter over Damon or Johnson. It was him or Matsui as far as I was concerned. He’s not the best defensive player at any of his 4 positions, but, he can hit for average and power. NYY could have gotten him for $4 mil as a DH/utility player.
Selig didn’t let the Lee to the Yanks trade go through /conspiracy theory
“where has cr9 been?”
The sanitarium?
If we get Lee, I suggest both CC and Lee be used occasionaly as DH/pinch hitter!!!!!
What an appropriate name you have, Jerkface. I don’t need to take insults from anyone. What the hell did I say that I deserved that comment from Pat M? Nothing………
Unbelievable! Is there anything Lee can’t do?
Bengie Molina is only 1 of 2 players that couldn’t have scored on that double. The other is Jose Molina.
Lee hits a double lol
2-0 Rangers
I was on the LOHUD Rangers (Hockey) blog today and he was there. Well, somebody was posting there with that name.
This rangers team does have a similar feel to that 02 angels team. Just seems like everything is going there way.
I do think the Giants have a chance in the series but they will have to play and especially pitch very well as the Rangers have much better position players than they do.
I really hate this Ranger team.
Betsy, I don’t want to speak for Pat M, but I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
I seriously doubt that was the real Pat M., Betsy. That’s too out of character for him. Hell, he won’t even badmouth me and Randy.
Betsy I’ve spent a lot of time and energy on here answering your questions, providing you with logical reasons why you need not worry about something, and replying to your various doomsday posts on here in an attempt to get you to soften your harsh views of the environment surrounding the Yankees, and I think Pat M is merely saying cheer up.
You claimed you would not read this post because it makes you furious or upset or whatever, and then you wrote a paragraph about the trade. Pat M is just saying cheer up.
so much for good pitching stopping good hitting
Gb7…..slow and slower..
You read darkness into everything in the world, Betsy. You take innocuous comments or newspaper articles and just sperg out over them.
blake October 27th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Gb7…..slow and slower..
———————————————————————————————————————-
The Molinas are the only player I know of where the coaches time them with a sun dial.
Jerkface, I don’t need to be cheered up – I’m perfectly fine. I don’t care what Pat M meant – he talks about this place as a war zone and then he starts something with me.
Jerkface, ok so what? I couldn’t resist posting about the subject?
Gb, lol….they both pretty good though at non running things. Seriously posada looks like the flash compared to those two.
Its not starting something. You are starting something by reading more into it than is there. Just like you read 1 statement by someone and decide ‘Thats it, no way we get *this player* now’.
I think the Giants have already tied the Yankees with fly balls hit against Lee.
Well it’s too late – I e-mailed Pat about how angry I am at him. As far as I’m concerned, the matter is over with.
“I think the Giants have already tied the Yankees with fly balls hit against Lee.”
Yep. They already tied us with hits… through 2 innings.
Jerkface, telling me I need prozac is not a comment I appreciate; you can think what you want, but he directed it to me. I spend most of my time here dealing with people who can’t stand me or my posts; I have no intention of spending time deciding whether Pat M was being funny or not. All I know is that I didn’t deserve that crack from him and whatever he intended, it went over very badly.
Blake, although it would be a catchy nickname, there’s a good reason why they aren’t named “The Flying Molinas”, and it has nothing to do with a trapeze.
A bit of an overreaction. You must be a blast to hang out with.
Well anyway………back to baseball. The Rangers are a much better team than the Giants; their pitching probably isn’t as good, but it’s not that far off…….so I expect them to win. I’m glad I can’t watch – I hate the idea of the Rangers winning.
From the Mariners perspective, they were really shocked that Adams had a bad ankle?
*****
I don’t know that they were shocked he had a bad ankle – seems like it was a matter of determining the severity of the injury…
http://tinyurl.com/279b7u3
But when the Mariners doctor didn’t like what he saw on the medicals of second baseman Adams, Zduriencik called back to say that he couldn’t take Adams. The Yankees at the time wondered whether Seattle was just trying to get out of the trade, but as it turned out the Mariners doctors were correct and Adams injury was more severe than the Yankees suspected. He had a hairline fracture of the lower leg, it was discovered later.
“Any deal with any club is always contingent upon medicals,” said Zduriencik, who refused to discuss any of the names mentioned in the trade.
I guess I look at it like a real estate deal …
Buyers can legitimately get out of a deal if the inspection uncovers something and the sellers are unwilling to pay to fix it.
Giant hitters have at least shown some life w their bats against Lee
“A bit of an overreaction. You must be a blast to hang out with.”
lmao
Lee is just like Andy but Better! Seems like always making the BIG strike or DP when he needs it!
The jerkface is very rabelaisian.
I think I’d prefer Thames playing the field over Guerrero. He is just so bad out there.
Someone remind me again how MLB allowed a bankrupt team to absorb the contracts of Lee, Molina, Guzman, Cantu, Francouer. Did I miss anyone?
Lee has certainly had a historic run over two postseasons now, so far. He seems to have ice water in his veins.
I don’t know if I trust that, they exchanged medicals the players did not get physicals. You’re asking us to believe the yankee doctors could not read an X-Ray?
Lee hits a double lol
******
Hey, maybe the Giants will sign him
Andres from Peru,
Except Andy didn’t magically become unhittable at age 32
Hey Rosy, has the outrage over Josh Lueke died down yet?
Lee “Bob Gibson” Cliff, will not surrender a 2-0 lead against this lineup.
GB,
The “lumbering Molinas” just doesn’t have that ring to it.
Bottom line the mariners screwed the Yankees. What a pitiful job the new regime as done in seattle. They should be embarrassed at their performance so far. So many bust players and then they take a probably worse package for lee to a team in their OWN DIVISION. Maybe they figured Lee’d be a yank in 2011 anyhow, but if two packages r basically even, why would u trade ur stud to a team in ur own division?? Idiotic, they f’d the Yanks, can’t wait for Lee to shutdown both the M’s and the classless Rangers next season
They already had Adams on the DL for over a month and a half at the trade deadline. Sorry, the Yankees obviously knew he had a more serious lower leg injury than was reported, but minor league DL reports are NEVER accurate.
More smoke blowing by the Mariners front office / media.
yankee Trader -
that’s right! It was more than one deal, more than just Lee. I had forgotten that part of it.
Why did no one protest?
No one wanted to seem like sour grapes?
The Michelin Tire Molinas
Makes no difference. Just like the Twins, Seattle decided to play games and swap and shop deals and they got burned. They now have a felon pitching for them and an over rated first baseman. They’d have been better off taking the draft picks and resigning Branyon. same issues…no glove and feast or famine bat.
Trader,
I have no idea…never understood it and still don’t.
TSC,
i love Andy and the way he pitch but lets face it, Lee is just money in the big Spot!
and that magic thing you saying, like CC said, he is been good for years now.
What a shame the Yanks declined their option on Nick Johnson. Was really looking forward to him playing at least 5 or 6 games next year.
“What a shame the Yanks declined their option on Nick Johnson. Was really looking forward to him playing at least 5 or 6 games next year.”
LMAO…thats cold.
GreenBeret7,
I know they are still kids but do any of the 3 killer B’s in the minors project as top of the rotation starters?
All of the Killer B’s project as front line starters in their best case scenarios. They all have the stuff for it.
Realistically Banuelos and betances are 1/2 types and Brackman is a closer/elite setup man.
Andres from Peru,
Lee was in the minors in 2007 because he was so bad
Texas is a much better team than the Giants. That’s a stacked lineup.
Nick Johnson playing in 5 or 6 games next year? Aren’t you being overly optimistic??
The Mariners were never going to trade Lee to the Yanks, they were just using their offer as leverage against Texas.
Either way, if Cashman was in Jack Z’s position… I hope he would do the exact same thing… back out of a deal for a perceived better deal, even if it means some hard feelings with the other team. The job is to get the best deal.
blake October 27th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
?What a shame the Yanks declined their option on Nick Johnson. Was really looking forward to him playing at least 5 or 6 games next year.?
LMAO?thats cold.
__________
True. Nick was certainly a true warrior compared to Carl “Bruised Buttocks” Pavano.
D-Man,
The bottom line is you don’t continue to shop players once you have agreed on a trade pending physicals
Either way, if Cashman was in Jack Z’s position… I hope he would do the exact same thing… back out of a deal for a perceived better deal
–
The difference is that no one would know Cashman was making the deal until it was done.
Hopefully that non-trade will be one of the great non-trades we look back on.
Why does Nolan Ryan always look like he is constipated
Giants offense is better than Yanks.
LOL
cutter in the middle of the plate….rare mistake pitch by Cliff.
Nice hit !
Let’s Go Posey!
Wow….it can be done. Buster Posey is a stud.
Somebody call the SF dugout and have them to remind Sanchez about staying put at second base until the ball falls in.
Giants just have that look.
That feel.
“The bottom line is you don’t continue to shop players once you have agreed on a trade pending physicals”
But they had an “out” in the deal (the injury) and they knew it. If Adams was 100% healthy, I doubt they back out of the deal because it would be dishonorable. They can use the injury excuse and people would buy it.
I agree that this was dishonorable as well because we know Adams’ injury wasn’t the reason for nixing the trade, but at least he had an “excuse” he could use to rationalize it.
I have confidence that Matt Cain will shut down the Rangers tomo.rrow. If they can win tonight they’re going to Texas up 2-0
Wow, where was this Lee when we faced him? Yikes.
Kristin Lee must not like this.
yay!!!
TSC,
but loks like that worked! im just saying he reminds me Andy but his post seasons record is just Insane.
Man, Cliff Lee is used goods. Who would want this guy?
(Dramatized reactions by real Yankee fans out there, somewhere in this world)
haha and i think i just jinxed Lee xD
Lee is catching the middle of the plate a lot more than he usually does.
D-Man October 27th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Either way, if Cashman was in Jack Z’s position… I hope he would do the exact same thing… back out of a deal for a perceived better deal, even if it means some hard feelings with the other team. The job is to get the best deal.
———————————————————————————————————————-
GMs that agree to deals and then back out after shopping that deal will soon find that nobody will trust them. Ask Bill Smith. The only deals they can make is taking somebody’s headache or get screwed on the deal.
Can help but think that this is the Cliff Lee the Yankees would have faced in Game 7… sniff
Titled “Feel the Glove,” the five-page story by Albert Chen talks glowingly about the Mariners’ willingness to take a different approach and ability to find the right players for that system since Zduriencik took over a year ago.”Seattle is a team straight out of a different era, with defense as its backbone,” Chen writes.
Go Giants!
If Adams was 100% healthy, I doubt they back out of the deal because it would be dishonorable. They can use the injury excuse and people would buy it.
—
It doesn’t matter if Adams is 100% healthy, both parties knew he was injured when agreeing on the deal. They would find a different reason to back out of the deal if he was healthy.
Jerkface -
Interesting you should say that about not knowing – because I recall at the time that this Lee deal was happening how it was so unlike most of Cash’s deals that we knew so much so soon.
I think Cash is a smart guy.
I think he wasn’t shocked at how this turned out, let’s just say.
Triple Short of a Cycle October 27th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
Why does Nolan Ryan always look like he is constipated
———————————————————————————————————————-
Probably because he’s read your posts.
Bottom line the mariners screwed the Yankees.
*****
It’s my understanding that a team has the right for their doctor to inspect medicals to make a determination on the severity of an injury. If that’s not the case, it wouldn’t have been allowed.
What a pitiful job the new regime as done in seattle. They should be embarrassed at their performance so far.
******
I don’t know that the job of the new regime has been ALL pitiful, there was quite an improvement in performance and clubhouse attitude from 2008 to 2009. Unfortunately, it didn’t carry over to 2010. The offensive performance was INDEED an embarrassment and the clubhouse was a nightmare.
So, we shake the etch-a-sketch and start over this spring
GB,
I think Huff is on a one year deal with the Giants if I’m not mistaken.
Seattle was picked by many to win the division. They were probably the most underperforming team in baseball.
funny how SF is up there hacking away at Lee, much different than the Yankees tentative approach of half swinging their way through the game. SF seems to be deciding to swing before the pitch is thrown.
“If this guy is what we think he is, he’ll be a cornerstone of this franchise going forward,” Zduriencik said after the Mariners completed the six-player trade that also cost Seattle reliever Mark Lowe in exchange for four Texas youngsters.
D-Man -
You think Seattle “okayed” Adams knowing he would give them an out?
Aubrey Huff is a Type B FA as is Benjie Molina.
The future will be bright for the Ms in the year 2020.
Yeah, Huff is a FA after the season. Not sure that the yanks will be in the market for a full time DH this winter. That’s a powerful left handed bat in YS, though. He was signed for $3 mil over the winter. Nearly half of what Johnson cost.
Sanchez did teh right thing in the 1st inning by taking a chance that Kinsler would not catch the pop up, with Cliff Lee pitching you can’t assume you’ll get another chance. Sanchez should have done the same thing last inning. Either you have a plan or you don’t. SF obviously don’t have a plan.
Lincecum pitching much better mixing in the splitter/changeup.
Is “Feel The Glove” the follow-up to “Smell The Glove”?
Lol so what if Seattle was picked by many? Like some idiot talking head’s opinion always accurately reflects a team’s potential? Um, no. The truth is they were a poorly constructed team and they couldn’t hit their way out of a paper bag. The talent in the lineup was laughable.
…also cost Seattle reliever Mark Lowe in exchange for four Texas youngsters.
*******
I was really surprised to see Mark be part of the package. The M’s bullpen missed him a LOT (both his pitching AND his leadership). Apparently, his medicals were OK’d by the Rangers though, since they accepted him and here he is now on their World Series roster.
Good luck, Mark. I hope you get a ring.
Didn’t the M’s president end up getting Fired because one of the players the Rangers traded to them was a convicted rapist?
Jack Zduriencik reminds me of a Vietnamese “slicky boy”. They’d work the bars in Saigon and Hue with the bar girls…doing their dirty work.
Z was dazzled by the Texas smoke and knowingly traded for for a convicted rapist.
Nothing good is going to happen for the Mariners since they pulled a doozy on Cashman
Sorry Rosy.
NOw we have to know Cliff Lee’s “favorites?” What is this “teen scene?”
For crying out loud, what’s next?
IF they come up with a quote from a teacher or coach from little league, I swear I’m gonna die!
Do not know if anyone got fired but Josh Lueke one of the Rangers prospects sent to the M’s has been a bad boy.
She said she passed out, and when she awoke the next morning, articles of her clothing were missing.
On May 27, 2009, Lueke was arrested and charged with rape and sodomy. The probable cause statement for arrest stated that semen found on the victim was a DNA match for Lueke.
He was jailed on $150,000 bail and remained there until his plea deal was struck.
Pleading no contest carries the same legal weight as a guilty plea, but sentencing is often more immediate and less harsh.
At the time, Mariners president Chuck Armstrong said he was “not aware”of Leuke’s problems. Seems that’s not true, because Geoff Baker is reporting today that former Mariners pitching coach Rick Adair told Jack Zduriencik about Lueke’s troubles “well before the deal.” Check out Baker’s story for Adair’s comments on it. He’s unequivocal in saying he told them all about the guy and his legal problems.
Moreover, Zduriencik said at the time that the Rangers wouldn’t agree to take Leuke back as a result of the hubub, but Rangers’ GM Jon Daniels contradicts that, saying that Texas made a standing offer to do so and Seattle never availed themselves of it.
Z is a scumbag with no moral compass and a bad liar.
It’s hard to respect Giants, though they beat Phillies.
remember when Cliff Lee wasn’t a strikeout pitcher?
Nobody wants to hear this now but what I am telling all my Ranger goons here in Tx is that I hope they resign Lee and then over th next 5 yrs or so watch the Yanks get:
Hamilton, Cruz, Kinsler, and Feliz.
Pick your poison.
OK, so what do two things do Joe Girardi have in common?
1. We’re both named Joseph.
2. Neither of us can watch the World Series on TV tonight.
From reading here, seems like quite the game. Doreen, do I detect a certain edge tonight? Not that I’m complaining, I tend to agree about your observations about both the Mariners and the Rangers. Next thing you know, I’ll be baking up brownies and cookies.
Wait a minute, fresh brownies would go great as dessert after a grilled steak….
“You think Seattle “okayed” Adams knowing he would give them an out?”
With the way the negotiation unfolded, nothing would surprise me.
I think they wanted Smoak all along, Texas was reluctant, so they either:
A. used the Yankees to provoke Texas to include Smoak, but willing to settle on our package if they couldn’t get Smoak.
B. genuinely felt that Texas would not offer Smoak so they turned to plan B and knew the Yankee package was the best they would get and wanted to secure it before Cash had 2nd thoughts, so that is why they worked to quickly to consummate the deal.
I do agree with Jerk that even if Adams was healthy, they would have found a way to back out of the deal, but this gave them a convenient excuse. They can make it appear that the injury was a big concern, but we all know the truth.
Joe from LI,
Did you get a message from (evil) Cablevision about watching the World Series online? I guess you can pay $9.95 for the privilege although Cablevision says they will deduct $10 from your next bill.
Juan Uribe just made a terrific play at 3rd, and he’s a Type B FA. Lincecum looks better now.
Lee’s pitch count is high.
Joe from Long Island -
No one’s more surprised than I am (well, maybe my husband) that I seem to care more about this game than I was expecting to.
I’m just soooo tired of the Cliff Lee mania. When they popped up “Cliff Lee’s Favorites” on the screen, well, that’s the last straw. He’s a pitcher. A good one, and he deserves accolades for his performance, but, you know, it’s gotten to point of hero worship silliness by grown men.
Did the bankrupt Rangers have to get an OK from MLB to take on all those July/August contracts of Lee, Cantu, Guzman, Molina, Francouer?
JM,
This time Cablevision is not the bad guy.
Joe from Long Island October 27th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
OK, so what do two things do Joe Girardi have in common?
1. We’re both named Joseph.
2. Neither of us can watch the World Series on TV tonight.
From reading here, seems like quite the game. Doreen, do I detect a certain edge tonight? Not that I’m complaining, I tend to agree about your observations about both the Mariners and the Rangers. Next thing you know, I’ll be baking up brownies and cookies.
Wait a minute, fresh brownies would go great as dessert after a grilled steak….
———————————————————————————————————————-
That’s just cruel.
Uribe’s made a couple of good plays tonight.
1. GB – that’s quite a condemnation.
2. I think it was the director of scouting for the M’s who got fired. Sounds like the Mariners had ample notice of Lueke’s situation, but were determined to go ahead regardless. That goes along with stories about Z being interested with Smoak since Z scouted him for whatever organization it Z was working for at the time. So, yes, they well could have been playing Cash, and Cash finally figured it out, and refused to go along.
Doreen,
On ESPN radio all day when they gave the promo for the game tonight it was always Tim Lincecum vs “the great” Cliff lee, or the “amazing” Cliff Lee….it was never just Tim Lincecum vs Cliff Lee. Its gotten out of control.
Extra rest for Lee?
LOL
Yankee batters should feel embarrassed now.
The next list for Lee will be Cliff Lee’s Least Favorites List>
1 through 25 will be the SF Giants.
Great game, nothing like the World Series.
Lee must think it’s already 2011 and he’s pitching for the Yankees
Wow! Is Cliff Lee, like CC Sabathia and Roy Halladay before him, susceptible to lay off rust?
Lee is already nearing 85 pitches….no way he’s going more than 7 in this one…..maybe not that long. He’s missed more spots tonight than in any of the other games I’ve seen him throw this post season.
I am still confused, and I live in DFW, on how all that went down with bankruptcy, change of ownership, to Ryan and Greenberg only giving a small portion, to a new tv deal.
That left-hander for Texas looks awful huh?
susceptible to lay off rust?
———
doubt it, but he is susceptible to being human.
He’s just missing his spots. I’m telling you that disruption to routine, that extra rest – it’s a valid idea.
Lee at 85 pitches and now getting hit hard.
See how a REAL home field advantage works? No one in SF sitting on their cellphone watching this game.
If we can’t sign Lee, we should probably acquire Freddy Sanchez.
I agree with Francessa on the point that if the Giants can beat Lee…The rangers lose a little of their mojo.
funny Giants gif
http://www.askcorran.com/giantsseinfeld.gif
GB – I have not one iota of intention of cruelty. Well, maybe to fascist TV executives, and the guy Z in Seattle, and the TV producer who comes up with teenage stuff for WS games, and the one who dreamed up the whole antler and claws thing (sounds like a western delicassy. Where’s MTU?)
We need to give Freddy Sanchez a huge contract
If you’re name is Steinbrenner or Cashman, you’re probably watching Cliff Lee getting hit and wondering howcum your guys couldn’t do that?
Freddie Sanchez can’t run the bases but he likes doubles.
The Giants have a beautiful park….that’s one I really want to get out to one of these days.
Lee was bound for a stinker – man, all the Yankees had to do was get to game 7.
Jim,
They couldn’t hit Colby Lewis. What makes you think they would have hit Lee in game 7
blake -
It’s really, really nice in person. Worth the trip if you can get out there.
Joe, Thanks for clearing the M’s mess up.
Joe from Long Island October 27th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
GB – I have not one iota of intention of cruelty. Well, maybe to fascist TV executives, and the guy Z in Seattle, and the TV producer who comes up with teenage stuff for WS games, and the one who dreamed up the whole antler and claws thing (sounds like a western delicassy. Where’s MTU?)
———————————————————————————————————————-
MTU is either out hiking (I told him to take a hike and feed his dogs) or on a min-vacation. I hope he doesn’t take that literally and feed his dogs to the snakes.
It’ll serve Seattle right if the package they got from Texas turns out to be worth less than what the Yanks offered them for Lee. Hopefully the Yanks will sign Lee, Montero will be ROY at catcher, and the Yanks will win the World Series in 2011.
In fact the only thing not good about the park is the bullpen on the field!
now he breaks down
Jim October 27th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
Lee must think it’s already 2011 and he’s pitching for the Yankees
*****************
Funny, sad and probably true at the same time….
“# Jim October 27th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
See how a REAL home field advantage works? No one in SF sitting on their cellphone watching this game.
”
NYS= Staples Center LA for baseball…….. it is what it is
Doreen,
I’m sure….its on my list.
It’s nice to see
AJ Lee
getting lit up
like a Christmas tree.
Lee better not pitch like this next year for us
Cody Ross is one hell of a story right now
Lee has made some mistakes tonight but you have to credit the Giants as well…..they are swinging the bats well. They hit some pretty good pitchers in the NLCS as well.
Remember when everyone wanted the Yankees to trade for Cody Ross……
his value will be going down now
amazing this giants lineup doesn’t fold like the “vaunted ” yankees offense like a cheap umbrella when they trailed 2-0
Roberto Kelly?
LOL
Lee still can get $150M?
Why didn’t we trade for Cody Ross instead of Austin”I’m a sure strikeout” Kearns?
when Lee isn’t perfect, he’s pretty damn hittable. Guess that’s why he’s got a so-so record for his kind of talent.
AT&T Park is spectacular. I’m been lucky enough to see three games there. Sitting in the right-field stands is just amazing late afternoon in the summer, the view of the bay, etc.
Don’t know if it’s the extra rest or not, but it’s nice to watch Cliff Lee get knocked around a bit.
It’s best that Lee has this clinker for a post season series and gets it out of his system before joining the Yankees in December. He wasn’t going to go undefeated in his PS career, so get get the losses over with now.
Thank you Giants, continue to drive down Cliff Lees price.
People have forgotten that Lee gave up 5 runs against the Yanks in game 5 of last years WS.
go giants
Lee is thinking about next year. But really he was due for a stinker.
Lee just lost a minimum of 12 million dollars tonight
Man the Giants are really swinging the sticks…..it was inevitable, you can’t pitch the way Lee was pitching forever.
No earth shattering revelation here – but as Cliff Lee is proving tonight, pitching on the major league level is primarily about one thing, location – location – location.
It’s amazing how people consistently shrug off long rest for pitchers. People did it with CC, Halladay, and Lee. We have consistently seen results of long rest this post season for even the best pitchers in baseball. They’re just not as sharp.
All the storytelling going on, and this is a completely overlooked and untold story.
Cliff Lee throwing batting practice. Good thing that I do not bet on baseball.
The antlers, the claws, Elvis Andrus’ stupid hair…
They can all burn in hell.
Stunning
Thank you Giants, continue to drive down Cliff Lees price.
————-
how?
The Giants put together a really nice inning here.
I can’t think that Washington and the Rangers had this in their plans – Lee out before finishing the 5th.
And stop it with the anti-yankees stuff please, you guys. This was not Cliff Lee on a good night.
Kristen Lee not impressed with Cliff Lee
Can’t root for the Rangers, glad to see Cliff Lee is human.
I have a picture in my mind of Cashman looking at a ringing phone on his desk right now and laughing at it.
for a minute there i thought lee would challenge Mo’s postseason e.r.a.
The Giants look like they have the magic this year. Unreal how off Lee is with his location. He is usually like a machine with his command. When he pegged Torres earlier I knew he wasn’t himself. Too bad he couldn’t have pitched like this against the Yankees.
I wonder if any of the Yankees are watching this.
They all must feel stupid now that another team shows that Cliff Lee is hittable.
knock his ass out
How pathetic is it that the trolls hit this board and the game has nothing to do with the Yankees. Trolls for teams that haven’t seen the WS in decades.
What has been more painful this week in Dallas – Romo going down or Lee getting crushed?
Cokie washington keeping lee in because he’s in the clubhouse doing a few lines since lee usually pitches into the 8th inning….I won’t mind not seeing him shimmy and jumping around like a schoolgirl that has a bug on her face when the rangers are scoring runs
RadioKiev -
Well, if they focused on that, they’d then have to say that could have been a reason the Yankees pitchers didn’t pitch well, and I don’t think they’d ever do that, do you?
how?
–
Scoring runs.
Holy Smokes!!!!
Have a freaking day Juan Uribe.
I think we can safely say that Texas is now the underdog of this series
Some people have this thing going on called a life.
Thus, we can’t be here 24/7.
WOW! I really enjoy watching this Giants team. The get so many big hits!
Who the hell are these guys?
whoa
Santa Maria!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, oh!!! I just heard a bell ringing and Tinker Bell The Troll shows up.
those Giants are good.
how?
–
Scoring runs.
-
Don’t be silly, it’s one start out of many excellent ones. Lee’s asking price will be the same regardless of what he does in this WS.
I’m sure the Giants have a clipping somewhere on their clubhouse wall that says, “Giants bats not up to the task”.
Wow. The Giants are really taking it to Texas. Nice
Just like that that pretty post-season era just shot up.
As an after game side event they should have Nolan Ryan pitch to Barry Bonds.
Lee with the 2,000-yard stare.
Man, just goes to show you how much talent the Yankees had. They had one player not mired in a slump and still took it to Game 6 of the ALCS.
Playing hurt, Merely making fun of all the mediots who suggested a good cliff lee start adds millions to his deal.
texas getting a taste of their own medicine
All of that range….
Cliff lee has now given up 5+ runs in 2 out of his 3 world series starts, can’t handle the big lights?
People complain about Jeter in the field, but you wouldn’t see him botch that play…
Plus Antler and a half of paw for Andrus.
This is what I wish the Yankees had been able to do more of in the ALCS….challenge the Rangers. The two times they did in the series they fell apart.
The Rangers haven’t had an inning this bad since.. Game 1 of the ALCS..
Still, enjoying this. It’s not even pure hatred of the Rangers, the Giants have been fun to watch this post season. It looks like they do have that bit of magic.
People complain about Jeter in the field, but you wouldn’t see him botch that play…
————
Jeter is very sure handed. Range wise not so hot anymore, if he ever was.
Jeter makes that particular play as good or better than anyone still…
I think Cashman changed his mind when given the option, that’s why he refused to change the deal. He didn’t want to trade Montero. Wise decision.
Anyway, Cliff Lee sucks! Let Texas have him!
As an after game side event they should have Nolan Ryan pitch to Barry Bonds.
——————————————-
LMAO
At least they still have their Cowboys, right?
breaking news. cliff lee’s wife just complained about the behavior of giants fans
The Rangers look old.
Barry Bond was blackballed out of baseball, I bet he can still hit even without roids.
I just find it sad that the bright lights of SAN FRANCISCO were the ones that caught the Rangers frozen in the middle of the road. There wasn’t a moment of a game in Yankee Stadium that was as loud as a single base hit that SF got tonight.
Listened to the 5th inning unfold on the radio in the car on the way home.
Morgan/Miller on radio vs Buck/McCarver on TV. Talk about between a rock and a hard place.
I guarantee Bonds could still hit.
blake October 27th, 2010 at 9:56 pm
Jeter makes that particular play as good or better than anyone still…
———————————————————————————————————————-
It’s like we were saying last night, Blake. There’s a lot to be said for having a little less range and a lot better hands and more accurate arm.
please show us a shot of nolan ryan
Timmy just needs to stay calm and get through a couple more innings
http://katchop.com/blog/wp-con.....-copy1.jpg
Jim you’re right. Yankee Statdium fans need to get their mojo back.
Every neighborhood has that old man yelling at the kids to get off his yard.
Unfortunately for you, this isn’t your yard, so STFU.
The Yankees need more dynamic players who are in their prime like Juan Uribe
not good to go down all striking out after your pitcher gave up 7 runs
pat October 27th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Listened to the 5th inning unfold on the radio in the car on the way home.
Morgan/Miller on radio vs Buck/McCarver on TV. Talk about between a rock and a hard place.
———————————————————————————————————————-
It could have been worse. ESPN could be doing TV and Hawk Harrelson and Steve stone could be doing radio for “The Good Guys. Think of all the times “You can put it on the board…YES”.
starting
It’s like we were saying last night, Blake. There’s a lot to be said for having a little less range and a lot better hands and more accurate arm.
–
The problem is that he has A LOT less range. Though sure handedness sure helps.
GB,
You and I have been saying it all year… I watched nearly every game this year and I just didn’t see the significant drop off defensively from 09 that everyone else saw. He isn’t the rangiest SS in baseball but he made 6 errors in 151 games this year….if he gets to a ball he catches it and makes an accurate throw….
isn’t Miller the tv/radio guy for the Giants during the regular season?
#LGY October 27th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
The Rangers look old.
_________________
Wow, Molina is like a really fat Mark Lemke
if he gets to a ball he catches it and makes an accurate throw….
–
The significant drop off defensively is the lack of getting to balls. No one has said Jeter makes a lot of errors. Its the fact that he is taking his first step while most short stops are on their 5th.
Blake, the whole Yankee infield is as sure-handed as any I’ve seen since the old Orioles teams of the early ’70s. had the pitchers and catchers along with Pena only made half of the errors they did, that team sets nearly every fielding record in the books. Pitchers, catchers and Pena combined for 38 of the 69 team errors. regardless of range, that’s impressive.
Fangraphs has Brett Gardner with the highest UZR in baseball?
Rangers creeping back in
GB7 is right, in that the yankees infield is really good at throwing and catching. The left side might lack range but they will make stops and throw the ball well. And the right side is of course tremendous.
And the outfield is all solid.
Replacing Jeter would be awesome for the defense, but as it stands the unit can carry him because he is so sure handed and usually makes heads up plays.
Speaking of Barry Bonds, he wants to be the Giants hitting coach….
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ref=sircrc
Jerkface,
I don’t know what you’re going by, but he had a higher UZR this year than he had in 2005, 2006, and 2007. I didn’t see a significant drop in his range this year from last….I honestly think that if he had hit .340 again then nobody would have mentioned it. There are a lot of SS’s that have more range than he does, but I think you are greatly overstating it.
Not exactly the “OK Corral Of Pitching” showdown that was expected.
The significant drop off defensively is the lack of getting to balls. No one has said Jeter makes a lot of errors. Its the fact that he is taking his first step while most short stops are on their 5th.
—————
-113 in fld career wise. Furthermore,in third largest contract ever given (Rodriguez has the honor of 1 and 2) Jeter has been overpaid for his whole career performance wise. He needs take a massive pay cut and help out the Yankees.
SI_JonHeyman
juan uribe very under-rated player. wont get what he should as free agent. clutch hitter, good defender.
I want Bonds as our DH in Yankee Stadium
Jeter had a 3.3 range component of UZR last year, for a positive UZR/150 overall. This year it was -11.5, and he had a negative -8 overall thanks to his really good error rating.
He really, really lacked range, Last year he had his new training and was well positioned by the yankees. This year he lost a step.
Before 08 he was never defensively positioned, so it didn’t matter.
For the numbers put up and influence that Jeter has had on the Yankees for 15 years, not to mention his monetary contributions in sales, he’s more than earned high contract.
Thats dubious, GB7, every great player takes less money at the end of their careers.
I believe GB7 was referring to the guy who said Jeter was overpaid for his entire career.
Although no player in history was Derek Jeter, but still.
every great player takes less money at the end of their careers.
———-
Correct, if Jeet really wants to help out the team, He could take a big pay cut. After all, his market value will probably top out at 3 for 30 mil. Jeter can show leadership by taking less than that and help out the Yankees to field a better team.
Jerkface,
I happen to believe that defensive metrics are pretty inaccurate so that doesn’t really tell me a lot. That’s a different discussion that I’m sure neither of us wants to venture in to though.
Oh, well I agree with Jeter being paid what he was over his career. He put up real good numbers at short.
Its one thing to say defensive metrics don’t tell the whole story, or are inaccurate, or something, but scouts and EVERY metric system for defense paints Jeter as a poor defender. Come on ‘pastadivingjeter’ is a catch phrase!
At any rate, they should only have to worry about it for 2 years at most.
You don’t think that the Red Sox wouldn’t have preferred Jeter over Garciaparra? Garciaparra was outstanding for about after 4 years. Then he started missing huge chunks of seasons and finally ended up as a utility player for 3 other teams. He ended up being Rico Petrocelli.
You can select certain Nomar seasons and say “Jeter could never do this.”
But you can look at Jeter’s career and say, “Nomar never did this.”
Jeter has put up numbers that no pure shortstop ever has. Some had more power, some had more speed, some were a little better on defense, but, none put all of those things together as well or as long as Jeter. Only Rodriguez would have topped him.
I hope the captain will take a hometown discount. The Yankees had paid him handsomely in his last contract. I think it’s reasonable for the Captain to take a hometown discount and help the team this time around.
Plus I assume Jeter makes extra money on the side for being such an iconic Yankee.
We need to get some offense for next year or else we all will be blogging about Posada not getting the job done as a DH, Gardner batting .270, Jeter hitting into double plays, AROD with less power, Tex struggling in April…the line-up struggling vs. mediocre pitchers…..slumps against terrible pitching, etc….the offense killed us this year when it really mattered as the Giants are showing with their clutch hitting and good at-bats all playoffs long….am I the only one who thinks we have to sign Carl Crawford to get better hitting on this team at the top of the line-up??
# Jerkface October 27th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
You can select certain Nomar seasons and say “Jeter could never do this.”
But you can look at Jeter’s career and say, “Nomar never did this.”
I know something Jeter did 5 times that Nomar never did.
I the only one who thinks we have to sign Carl Crawford to get better hitting on this team at the top of the line-up??
–
Crawford hit .100 in the ALDS and bats .200 vs lefties? Why do we need him?
Time travel is a reality (link below) !
We can get Cliffie Lee back !
http://news.softpedia.com/news.....3278.shtml
Jeter is the 2nd greatest modern era SS behind A-rod. I think Honus Wagner needs some cred along with Arky Vaughn for all-time great SS.
Well at least someone who can be a high average hitter for us if not Crawford…..who batted over .300 for us this year except Cano???
Wow Tony Bennet -
He looks pretty good! And he’s still go some sound, too.
Tony Bennet = awesome.
Amazing that some people feel they have the right to tell a player that he needs to take less money to “help out” the team. Would you take a big paycut “to help out your team” while they’re hardly strapped for cash? Maybe Jeter should come to Burger King at tell you to take a paycut because they didn’t sell as many burgers and fries as they thought they would.
It’s weird to think Jeff Kent might be one of greatest 2b ever.
Arod only had 8 full seasons at SS though…..Jeter has 15.
Doreen, Tony Bennett is still one of the top college concert draws in America. Unlike Martin and sinatra, he retained that voice.
Our offense must really suck.
“Amazing that some people feel they have the right to tell a player that he needs to take less money to “help out” the team.”
It’s a freakin’ blog. Who cares what semi-anonymous people with < 0 power say?
GB7 -
I do believe it. I know he had a concert here in the east (maybe at the St. George Theater in Staten Island) a couple of years ago and sold that out. And I think he was going to perform in my neck of the woods recently.
He took care of himself and his voice.
What an iconic song!
“I know something Jeter did 5 times that Nomar never did.”
By that logic, Clay Bellinger rocks.
Jeter is not going to be offered or accept a pay cut. Not a chance IMO. I can see him being ok with deferring some money, I don’t think he has cash flow problems.
Jerkface October 27th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Jeter is the 2nd greatest modern era SS behind A-rod. I think Honus Wagner needs some cred along with Arky Vaughn for all-time great SS
———————————————————————————————————————-
Wagner put up over a third of his numbers playing at other positions. I also said “pure shortstops”. Jeter will be the only shortstop to get to 3,000 hits and he’ll end up scoring 2,000 runs, along with everything else. he has 22 hits as a DH/PH. Everything else while playing shortsop. The only numbers Vaughn had better in his 14 years was triples and until this year had the same BA.
Of players with at least 400 PA in 2010, only 29 players in MLB hit .300 or above.
Of players with at least 450 PA, only 23 players in MLB hit .300 or above.
Doreen October 27th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
GB7 -
I do believe it. I know he had a concert here in the east (maybe at the St. George Theater in Staten Island) a couple of years ago and sold that out. And I think he was going to perform in my neck of the woods recently.
He took care of himself and his voice.
What an iconic song!
———————————————————————————————————————-
At 86 years old, he sounds better than most singers do at 26.
Amazing that some people feel they have the right to tell a player that he needs to take less money to “help out” the team. Would you take a big paycut “to help out your team” while they’re hardly strapped for cash? Maybe Jeter should come to Burger King at tell you to take a paycut because they didn’t sell as many burgers and fries as they thought they would.
————–
Let’s not do nasty. I feel the right to express my opinions on a Yankee baseball blog about a Yankee player. I am under no illusion that my opinion will have any tangible effects in the real negotiation. For reasons stated above, Jeter taking a pay cut is not so irrational as his market value won’t be remotely close to what the Yankees will pay him despite a pay cut.
It’s a rational thought that did not stem from some ‘rights’ one feels entitled to as a fan but rather a extension of it.
Perhaps you should not feel in having the divine rights to telling others what not to think Sir.
Kinsler makes a lot of baserunning mistakes.
What a great play by Huff to even catch that ball.
My God…where did these people learn to run the bases? at Romper Room School?
But then again, who makes that play that Huff just made? The guy is an enigma
Great comment playing hurt. Kudos. Stand up to blog tyranny!
Wagner still played near 1900 games at SS. And Vaughn had a very sick OBP for his day, but only 1400 games at OBP. Still one of my favorite WhatIfSports players.
As for A-rod’s less seasons at short, he was so much better than Jeter in those seasons that I honestly don’t think it matters. Jeter should have moved to third when they got A-rod.
This is like watching “The House Of David” playing baseball.
kinsler = idiot
This is the problem with going out for three hours or so. You miss like 8 Billion comments on here. BTW, what is with Ian Kinsler and baserunning errors in Game 1′s?
Also: Go ahead and suck, Lee, the less Texas loves you, the better.
“Jeter should have moved to third when they got A-rod.”
Amen.
the AA Giants can hit Lee but the Yankees never hit him
How pathetic
this romo dude looks like a leprechaun with the beard
The Yankees hit Lee twice this year, and last year in Game 5 of the world series.
“Jeter should have moved to third when they got A-rod.”
It worked out for the best because Arod wouldn’t still be playing SS now. You’d have Jeter at 3rd and nowhere to put Alex other than tying up the DH.
jerkface -
Ahh, but do you think Jeter would have been able to make the adjustment to third as well as ARod did?
(Mind you, I’m not saying ARod’s the best 3rd baseman ever, but he’s been at least okay until the hip)
“Jeter should have moved to third when they got A-rod.”
——————————–
Considering how Alex looks at 3rd base now and how he has the past few years, it is great that never happened.
If Jeter had moved the 3rd, the Yankees would have been royally screwed the past few years, because Alex being able to handle SS ended years ago.
“It worked out for the best because Arod wouldn’t still be playing SS now. You’d have Jeter at 3rd and nowhere to put Alex other than tying up the DH”
Jeter should have been moved to CF when the Yankees got A-Rod.
Just getting back now.
Re: I remember some baseball lifer, I really wish I could remember who, who said, essentially – “Forget the fielder who can make the spectacular play. Give me the one who makes the plays he’s supposed to make.”
What it always comes down to. Just do your job.
Rodriguez went to third because the team hierarchy, including Nettles and Michael, thought that he would be a better 3rd baseman than Jeter…better hands, stronger arm. It had more to do with that than it had to do with Who’s Who And Where.
Alex was much leaner when he was playing SS than he is now….perhaps had he stayed there he would have stayed that way but there is no guarantee of that. I think Jeter’s body type has allowed him to play the position longer than Alex would have been able to…especially when you factor in the hip issues. So while, initially Alex was the better player there….I think its worked out for the best the way it happened.
much easier to accept Arod at DH than Jeter, at least he can give you the traditional numbers of a great DH. Arod’s mobility will eventually make him a liability at 3rd. Lots of hard decisions facing the the Yanks in the years to come.
Fallacy of the pre-determined outcome guys. if A-rod stays at SS you never know how his career would have continued. Maybe he alters his conditioning programs to keep up with the demands.
I agree with Rich, I wanted Jeter in the OF years ago.
I felt like Jeter to CF would have been an awesome transition from Bernie, because then you don’t have to deal with bringing in someone new to replace a beloved Yankee./
Of players with at least 400 PA in 2009, 46 hit .300 or above.
Of players with at least 450 PA in 2009, 42 hit .300 or above.
Pretty big dropoff of .300 hitters from 2009-2010.
The Yankees didn’t need a center fielder as much as they needed a 3rd baseman when Rodriguez was acquired.
But then who would have played 3rd base? One of the reasons they decided to go after Alex was because they lost Boone to the basketball injury and got out of his contract, right?
Rodriguez went to 3B because Jeter was the shortstop, period.
We got boned. That’s the just of it.
“Jeter should have been moved to CF when the Yankees got A-Rod”
Eh….thats easy to say but when they got Alex Jeter was 30 years old and in the prime of his career….they weren’t going to do that.
Someone hop in a Delorean a fix this Travesty, if it’s such an issue.
P.S. MIIIISSSTTTAAAKKKKEEEE.
That’s the way a DH plays right field
“playing hurt says:
October 27, 2010 at 10:47 pm
Amazing that some people feel they have the right to tell a player that he needs to take less money to “help out” the team. Would you take a big paycut “to help out your team” while they’re hardly strapped for cash? Maybe Jeter should come to Burger King at tell you to take a paycut because they didn’t sell as many burgers and fries as they thought they would.
————–
Let’s not do nasty. I feel the right to express my opinions on a Yankee baseball blog about a Yankee player. I am under no illusion that my opinion will have any tangible effects in the real negotiation. For reasons stated above, Jeter taking a pay cut is not so irrational as his market value won’t be remotely close to what the Yankees will pay him despite a pay cut.
It’s a rational thought that did not stem from some ‘rights’ one feels entitled to as a fan but rather a extension of it.
Perhaps you should not feel in having the divine rights to telling others what not to think Sir.
”
In Pro Sports unlike the corporate ‘real’ world, old age and experience means decline and a pay cut
Ha. Vlad playing in the outfield. Hilarious.
“Fallacy of the pre-determined outcome guys.”
That works both ways. The only outcome we know is the one that happened….and he couldn’t play SS right now.
nice play by vlad. saw that miles away
If it wasn’t for the Yankees stupid rule barring facial hair the Yankees would be in the World Series right now!
Wow… For Texas’ sake I really, really hope this is nerves, cause if this is how this series is going to play out, it might not take long.
The Yankees acquired Arod to replace Boone. It is hard to fathom that Jeter would have vacated his SS position to anyone give his stature on that team. The right move would have been moving Alex to SS and Jeter to third. But Alex was a better overall player than Jeter. There was no telling that Jeter could have even handled the position at the time.
wow – lots can change in the time it takes to pick up a kid from soccer and go get dinner. Cliff is human afterall
re: Lueke
I participated in discussions about the acquisition back when it happened and so far, nothing has come to light to change my opinion…
Obviously, I don’t condone behavior such as Lueke was accused of (he was not convicted, he agreed to a plea of a lessor charge), nor would I attempt to diminish the effects it must continue to have on the victim in such a case. But, it does appear that Lueke he served the sentence he agreed to and – unless I missed something in the reams of stuff that has been written – he has had no further incident in the two+ years since.
While the M’s PR stresses family values and rails against domestic violence, they have also been willing to give second chances. If dealt with properly from here on out, it’s possible that the “Lueke story” could serve to highlight all three.
Here’s hoping if he is guilty, he has turned himself around and become a better person (nothing good happens when two people get blind drunk) and if he’s not guilty that he can move forward and gain strength in spite of it all. In either case, the M’s have him now and it’s time to see what he can do as a pitcher and how he can grow as a man.
But, I’m doubtful he will be in navy and teal come spring training …
regardless of the whole truth (which we’ll probably never know) the prez Chuck was none to happy to have to be dealing with such baggage and will likely over rule Jack Z on this one.
The Yankees didn’t need a center fielder as much as they needed a 3rd baseman when Rodriguez was acquired.
–
Disagree, the 2004 and 2005 yankees put up one of the most atrocious outfields in the history of the game. Something like a net negative -60 runs combined between Matsui/Bernie/Sheffield.
They traded for A-rod to fill in at third because of Aaron Boone, obviously, but the smart move was bumping Bernie and trying to get a league average 3b from somewhere.
Poor Vlad.
ummm, can someone tell SF to save some of these runs for the rest of the series?
Boy Vlad looks like he hasn’t played outfield all year…..wait he hasn’t.
Yup, Bernie was in a serious defensive decline and Torre refused to play Lofton for whatever reason.
Wow. I’m having so much fun watching this game. In a very small way, It’s a nice replacement to the massively stressful time I’d be having if the Yankees were in.
I kinda feel bad for Vlad, I don’t see why they are keeping him out there this late in the game when they could put someone else out there. He is doing more damage out there than he can with his bat.
2004 third baman for the Yankees…Miguel Cairo and Enrique Wilson…yeah…that’s the ticket.
Baseball Purists are laughing at the DH errr right fielder today
***baseman***
vlad makes marcus thames look like a gold glover
Miguel Cairo wasn’t bad for the yankees at 2B in 2004. I think its a net upgrade to remove Bernie from the outfield.
You get better defense at 2 of your premium positions for a loss of… 20 OPS points between Bernie and Cairo.
And that doesn’t count other players they could have acquired to fill in at 2B or 3B
Yanks dominance unfortunately is near an end and here’s why:
Posada: Can’t throw runners out and bat still decent with timely hit..DH spot.
Jeter: Disappointing year and flailing with the bat during the playoffs..looked lost.
Petitte: Age and injuries are catching up to the Warrior!
Mo: 41 years old…not much longer
Arod: Reverted back to pre-2009 playoff form in the 2010 playoffs..looked like he lost a step in 2010.
Tex: Wants to compete but is too streaky of a hitter and the annual slumps at the beginning and end of year have hurt the team.
AJ: nuff said.
Nick Johnson was the smartest signing in the world. Let’s try for him again in 2011. Cash must have been on Ludes for signing that WINNER!
I’ve been running around, doing house stuff tonight, so I’ve not had a chance to listen to the radio. What’s the score?
Since the Yankees had a bare bones farm system after trading what there was of it off to fill out the rotation, who were they going to trade to get a 3rd baseman?
They could have signed Todd Walker to play 2B, moved Cairo to third, Jeter to Cf, A-rod to SS. Vastly superior team. Or Ronnie Belliard.
There was never any guarantees that Jeter could play the outfield, much less, center field.
11-4 giants.
this game is hilarious
Rangers sat around too long ???? Loss their edge and sharpness……..Sound familiar
There wasn’t, but Jeter’s strengths were always in tracking fly balls, and being sure with the glove. Giving him more time to react might have let him use his speed.
I’d just as soon forget 2004 all together.
The Rangers won the WS in their minds with their playoff victory. Cliffy looked very human tonight. Talk about looking stressed with his heavy sighing.
Hey, remember when we had Alfonso Soriano?
So, Melky Cabrera’s sister has finally showed up to troll. How did ol’ Melky do this year and where’s he playing next year?
texas bullpen looks like the yankees’ during the alcs
thanks, blake.
Even if Yanks hitters had squared up Lee and Lewis, the way things were going they probably would have hit them just foul or right at fielders. Which is what wound up happening a lot.
Asd
I find this game a lot less stressful to watch too. Last World Series I was just a ball of nerves. I am rooting for the Gaints but it doesn’t really matter to me who wins.
time to change your name to Melkmangotreleasedinhotlanta.
Walker signed with the Cubs long before there was ever a need for him.
Great game execution by the Giants. What a game. Lee made a number of mistakes in location tonight but the Giants did a great job cashing in those mistakes.
The dynamics of this series now change quite a bit because Cain and Sanchez are such good arms.
Vlad in RF has been an absolute disaster. He just can’t play out there anymore.
That Texas bull pen outside of Feliz is a weakness that can be taken advantage of.
Coming into this series Bochy was catching some heat for starting Lincecum in game 1. Essentially the argument was to hold lincecum for a later game rather than “wasting” him against Lee.
So all the “experts” predicted a pitchers duel tonight with the pen deciding it in the late innings.
Remember that next time you believe something they say.
You just can’t predict baseball. (Except possibly Vlad playing RF)
sterling’d/
nice defensive replacement you got there Bochy
Ronnie Belliard could have been had for a minor league deal as insurance.
Torre would have started this inning with the Beard. You don’t mess around when you have a chance to win a WS game.
For the posters that glee in Melky’s current misfortune, it says a lot about your lack of character. Being an Ex Yankee doesn’t cut him a break with this devilish crew.
“Coming into this series Bochy was catching some heat for starting Lincecum in game 1. Essentially the argument was to hold lincecum for a later game rather than “wasting” him against Lee.”
I just never understand this way of thinking….how can you essentially punt a game in a 7 game series? Everyone can be beaten…
CB October 27th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
Great game execution by the Giants. What a game. Lee made a number of mistakes in location tonight but the Giants did a great job cashing in those mistakes
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That’s probably what Washington is thinking that’s what’s happening to him in this game…that he’d have preferred being executed.
I had forgotten (happens from time-to-time at my advanced age
)…
An Angel fan just reminded me that the Giants beat them 16-4 in one of the 2002 WS games…
“An Angel fan just reminded me that the Giants beat them 16-4 in one of the 2002 WS games…”
but they had the rally monkey….
Belliard was also signed by Cleveland long before there was a need for him. Both signed in December.
Does everybody still want Cliff? A scrappy San Fran team figured him out.
Mercedes: The car for careless, distracted morons
rally monkey > claws and antlers?
AJ Lee really came through today. Can’t wait until the Yanks sign him for a hundred million dollars or so.
Jerkface October 27th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
Crawford hit .100 in the ALDS and bats .200 vs lefties? Why do we need him?
_______________________________________________________________
FYI, Crawford’s career BA vs. lefties isn’t .200; it’s .270.
Thanks for the running description of the game, guys. Have a good night, all.
Fear the Beard
The yankees will fill out their rotation before they’ll be concerned about a bat.
I just don’t understand why anyone would close out a WS game with anyone but their closer.
Jerkface, I see what you saying about Jeter and CF. But IMO it was simply unrealistic to ask a HOF SS who had won 4 championships with Torre to vacate his position at that time.
By your logic, you could have very well moved Arod to CF and effectively had the same result.
It’s all moot at this point.
Jeter moving to another position is a real plausible scenario to think about in his next contract. Only if there are better SS out there or from within.
rally monkey > claws and antlers?
could be….
*****
Hopefully, we’ll at least get six more games to find out.
A-rods feb. trade really makes it hard to find free agents to use, but they could have even moved Jeter to 2B and used Cairo at 3B. Then moved Jeter to CF in 05.
At any rate, it was never 100% necessary to move A-rod to third. I have confidence Cash could have worked something, but it was never doing to happen.
How can Lee get beat by a team w/o a legitimate #4 hitter, and not having to face a DH.
Neither of the starters looked like aces. The Giants tried to give the game away, but there were no takers.
Go Giants, beat Texas, send Lee to the Yankees, he’ll be an ace when he pitches for us, lol.
But IMO it was simply unrealistic to ask a HOF SS who had won 4 championships with Torre to vacate his position at that time.
–
Yes, due to the media backlash and obviously Jeter not wanting to do it, but I wish they had.
How can Lee get beat by a team w/o a legitimate #4 hitter, and not having to face a DH.
——————–
he got hit.
Not bad Guerrero. You knocked in one and only allowed 3 to score.
You see, by not bringing in you closer to finish the game you give Texas the momentum going into game 2.
high fives after vlad made an out. rangers are bunch of idiots
Whitey Ford’s career record in the World Series was 10-8.
Were Ford pitching now, based on that mediocre W-L total, many Yankee fans now would be adamantly arguing that Ford was not an ace, was over rated and couldn’t pitch on the “big stage.”
“But IMO it was simply unrealistic to ask a HOF SS who had won 4 championships with Torre to vacate his position at that time.”
If Jeter is all about winning, then it doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch to ask him to move so that perhaps the best SS in MLB history could continue to play there.
It’s not the NBA. No one player wins a championship without a ton of help from other players.
“By your logic, you could have very well moved Arod to CF and effectively had the same result.”
A-Rod has never been very good at catching flyballs.
Get Hamilton fitted for the choke collar.
Cano, MVP.
Damon Albarn < Frank Sinatra
9 > 4.
I can do it to!
That was as ugly a “Must See” pitching match-up as you’ll see in a WS game.
That was as ugly a “Must See” pitching match-up as you’ll see in a WS game.
Dang it. I meant too.
Texas 2-3-4 were 1 for 12. Did they look old?
Get some WD-40 sent to the Rangers, they’ll claim they were rusty.
No way can Washington play Guerrero tomorrow in the outfield. Murphy needs to be out there whether Sanchez pitches or not.
Hopefully the Giants pitching the rest of the way makes short work of the Rangers, and we can stop discussing the antlers and claws.
“How can Lee get beat by a team w/o a legitimate #4 hitter, and not having to face a DH.”
Probably in a similar way to how Whitey Ford got beat by a very mediocre Giants team that had very little hitting in Game 6 of the ’62.
You know what they used to say about Whitey. He’s just no Ralph Terry.
Abour the do the Rangers look old jokes…it’s a legitimate concern to have a 37 year old SS and 40 year old catcher next year…that’s Father Time..athletes don’t get better at that age without PEDs
These are the 2 best teams left standing? Sad!
About the do the Rangers look old jokes…it’s a legitimate concern to have a 37 year old SS and 40 year old catcher next year…that’s Father Time..athletes don’t get better at that age without PEDs
Don’t worry JF, Texas will come up with something just as annoying, if not more, next season.
Not to be a bigot, but heavy accented commentators are really annoying.
“Texas 2-3-4 were 1 for 12. Did they look old?”
You can ‘t look old unless you are…
The Rangers 2-3-4 are all past their prime, probably why they looked old.
I’m just of the opinion that if Big League ballclubs can go to the trouble of providing interpreters for international players like Hideki Matsui for the benefit of the fans, Fox should do likewise and provide an interpreter for Ozzie Guillen.
Rich in NJ, I don’t Jeter is ‘all about’ winning. He is human being and superb baseball player with an ego and had won 4 championships at that time. Perhaps he felt he gives the Yankee the best chance to win at SS.
But good point on Arod never feels comfortable in catching fly balls.
I do think Jeter at this point of career can take a pay cut and help out the team in the process.
But I had already said that.
I’ll bet the Giants were happy to see Molina tonight. Sometimes those older guys get the job done, while the younger ones are trying to loosen their shirts.
I gues those genius Rangers scouts that I read about right here dropped the ball tonight
Well, that was bigoted. What an asinine comment.
pat October 27th, 2010 at 11:39 pm
Texas 2-3-4 were 1 for 12. Did they look old?
———————————————————————————————————————-
The extra day off messed up their timing. They were rusty. Of course playing in that salty air rusted their gloves, too. Need to get some WD-40 and some patches from the local auto salvage yard. CLANK..CLANK.
>I’m just of the opinion that if Big League ballclubs can go to the trouble of providing interpreters for international players like Hideki Matsui for the benefit of the fans, Fox should do likewise and provide an interpreter for Ozzie Guillen.
Now I don’t feel like a bigot.
West Coast Yankee Fan October 27th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Well, that was bigoted. What an asinine comment.
—————————————————
And this is the guy who accuses others of being an obsessed stalker.
And also has vowed no less than 2,372 times to ignore me “from here on.”
Jeter will not, nor should he take a pay cut.
He brings in a ton of money for the team, simply by being there.
And since when do billionaire owners need their stars to take a pay cut, to help out the team.
Ummm.. Aldo, I think it was in response to my comment, where I mentioned the word “bigot”.
“You can ?t look old unless you are?”
Young, Hamilton and Guerrero aren’t exactly spring chickens but the script is the Rangers are young where it matters.
That bigot claim might work out better for you einsteins if I didn’t have Latin blood coarsing through these veins.
playing hurt
Jeter is a HOFer, but A-Rod was a considerably better SS in 2004, and as a result, there should have been a way to let him play SS for the good of the team.
Jeter should take a paycut because of his current on the field value. Even with a cut, he would still receive far more than any other team would pay him. Altruism doesn’t have to enter into the calculus.
asd, maybe you’re right.
Either way, he’s an idiot.
“Young, Hamilton and Guerrero aren’t exactly spring chickens but the script is the Rangers are young where it matters”
I was joking, pat!!!!!!!!!!!
Again, Aldo, no one called you a bigot.
Whitey would have had a better record today since Aroid would have hooked him up.
Again, asd, maybe you’re right.
And again, either way, West Coast nancy is an idiot.
Big League ball clubs provide interpreters for players like Hideki Matsui because they don’t speak a word of English. Ozzie Guillen speaks English just fine.
And since when do billionaire owners need their stars to take a pay cut, to help out the team.
—————
because Jeter is aging superstar heading into his late 30s. By you logic, why don’t half billionaire owners just randomly throw money to keep their aging stars. why don’t carl Pohlad never kept all the stars in MN? Why doesn’t Art Moreno keep Vlad for whatever he demands?
Also, Hal has the Yankees a finite budget. Jeter taking pay cut in accordance to his declining skill is a reasonable proposition.
CB October 27th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
“How can Lee get beat by a team w/o a legitimate #4 hitter, and not having to face a DH.”
Probably in a similar way to how Whitey Ford got beat by a very mediocre Giants team that had very little hitting in Game 6 of the ‘62.
You know what they used to say about Whitey. He’s just no Ralph Terry.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Stengel killed Terry in that game 7 of the ’60 Series. He had him warming up in every inning from the 2nd inning through the 9th inning, when he was already gassed.
As good as Ford’s numbers were, he really wasn’t the real Whitey Ford in the WS except for his first in 1950 and his ’60-61 series games. Without those, he was a rather unFord like 5-8. In those 5 starts, 3 complete game shutouts and one of 5 shutout innings. he had a shutout going for 8.1 innings in his 1950 start until Gene woodling dropped a fly ball in the outfield in the 9th inning and the runner got to 3rd and scored.
Just a little history.
When a financial crisis hits the old house hold, do what Nancy says and max out the credit card! Enlightened, and very caring!!!!!
West Coast Yankee Fan October 27th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
Big League ball clubs provide interpreters for players like Hideki Matsui because they don’t speak a word of English. Ozzie Guillen speaks English just fine.
——————————————————-
I knew … I JUST KNEW … that if we waited long enough … EVENTUALLY you would say something funny!!!
Matsui speaks English better than half of the people on this board can type it.
GB7, interesting history.
Question, do you SEE the ’50 Series, or is that based on your knowledge?
Jeter did have an off season, but, he was still at the top of the AL SS, and will win a gold glove this year. One bad year should not translate into a big cut in pay. That’s the crap George Weiss pulled on Mantle after he won the triple crown and came back the next season and had an off year, I think he hit around .330, and had to take a 10% cut in pay. You’d like to go back to those good old days?
As I said in my post, Jeter, just by being on the team brings in huge revenue, so why should he take a pay cut. The Yankees are rich, and if they need additional help, tell Hal to increase his budget, before you tell Jeter to take a pay cut on his final contract.
The only speaking I ever Matsui do was the very loud talking he did with his bat.
I was barely alive during the ’50 series, but, I have seen the highlites on tape (MLB) and other places and Ford’s complete game on kinescope.
GB7 Says:
GreenBeret7 October 27th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Matsui speaks English better than half of the people on this board can type it.
Then Aldo says:
>The only speaking I ever Matsui do was the very loud talking he did with his bat.
Thus immediately proving it.
I’ve heard Matsui speaking in English, he did just fine. Maybe you were referring to the other Matsui on the Yankees, oh wait, there is no other Matsui.
Big Al, actually Mick hit .365 the year after his triple crown!!!
His power numbers dropped from 52-130 to 34-94 … although before my time, I would surmise he didn’t see many good pitches to hit.
GB7
Easy with the typing remarks.
How are you tonight?
Matsui did a few interviews in English that I heard, but, also some radio ads in English. He said that he was more comfortable using the interpretor because he was afraid that he would misunderstand the question or, and this makes no sense, be misquoted by the NY media. That would never happen.
GB7-
Interesting story about Terry warming up in the 1960 series. He got used quite a bit in the world series during that era.
Terry threw 25 innings over 3 games in the 7 game series in 1962. That’s quite something.
Ford threw an absolute stinker in game 6 and Terry comes up huge in game 7 throwing a complete game shut out winning 1-0 to take the series. What a game that must have been. That’s one I always wished I could have seen.
Given how much better that 62 yankees team were than the that 62 Giants team it’s interesting to think of how close that yankee team came to losing.
Asd -
Are you related to WCYF, or are you the same person?
I can’t believe there are 2 such idiots on this blog, that keep patting each other on the back like a couple of lovers.
LOL Jeter is not winning a gold glove this year. Andrus will get it.
KPB October 28th, 2010 at 12:03 am
GB7
Easy with the typing remarks. How are you tonight?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Yeah, you guys need to get better with your typing.
Doing pretty well, KPB. Thanks for asking. How are you and Mrs. B and the baby B’s doing?
>BIG AL October 28th, 2010 at 12:05 am
Asd -
Are you related to WCYF, or are you the same person?
I can’t believe there are 2 such idiots on this blog, that keep patting each other on the back like a couple of lovers.
Ha. Wait, I should be insulted shouldn’t I? Oh well.
I checked. As I suspected … the year after Mick’s triple crown, he walked a league-leading 146 times, career high OBP of .512.
Amazing.
Hous’s my englich doing, asd?
Aldo -
Without looking up the numbers I was trying to remember those years, but, I did remember Weiss told Mick he was taking a cut in pay because his numbers were lower than the previous season. I may have gotten the years wrong, but I’ll take your word. Too late in the day to do research.
I’m hitting the hay, good night folks.
Jeter did have an off season, but, he was still at the top of the AL SS,
——-
Jeter’s 710 OPS ranks third in the AL this year, 12th! in all of major league SS. and That’s a performance warranting a 22 mil pay day?
Jeter, just by being on the team brings in huge revenue,
————–
and the reverse can held as true as well. how much revenue? do you have a figure?
and if they need additional help, tell Hal to increase his budget, before you tell Jeter to take a pay cut on his final contract.
———————————-
Hal held firmed to his budget LY, it’s reasonable to assume he will this year as well. I believe Hal will pay Jeter good money just not what he has been pay in the past.
Jeter will be paid and handsomely so. But the idea he can’t take a pay cut in accordance to his declining performance is just illogical at best.
Hey small al – lucky for you there is no statute of limitations on stupid, troll-like comments on LoHud.
Is anyone else watching this whole Cliff Lee’s wife situation on FOX News? Cliff Lee played for the Phillies last year, and people are honestly worried that the behavior of fans is going to influence his decision? I find that beyond amusing!
>Hous’s my englich doing, asd?
Fine, as always. I just found it funny that the mistake happened immediately after the first comment, is all.
Cliff Lee’s wife is anti-spitting, but pro-vomiting.
WCYF -
You are the one that should know that best, that’s what you are, a stupid troll, phony Yankees fan, and nothing but an agitator.
Sweet dreams – Nancy!
CB, that’s all they ever remember about Ralph terry…one pitch. He was actually a damned fine pitcher.
Last night, I told this board about an interview with Ralph Terry and his first trip to Cooperstown. He was a minor leaguer playing for Binghampton back aroud ’53 and ’54 and went up to Cooperstown for a game. He was walking around and sat down on a bench with two old geezers. They asked Terry if he liked baseball and terry said, yes he did and that he was a pitcher in the Yankee system. They talked baseball for a while and as he got up to leave, they wished him well in his career, and Terry had forgotten to ask them their names. Terry said it was only a little later that he found out that he had been talking with Cy Young and Honus Wagner.
GB7
Doing real good, figured you’d get a kick out of the typing remark. No Mrs. B (haven’t been tamed yet), and no baby B’s (I’ve been called a little b*st*rd before). How are the guys in the AFL doing? I haven’t had a chance to check them out yet.
“Is anyone else watching this whole Cliff Lee’s wife situation on FOX News? Cliff Lee played for the Phillies last year, and people are honestly worried that the behavior of fans is going to influence his decision? I find that beyond amusing!”
Much ado about nothing…it’s the kind of story the sports media likes to jump on. Sets the stage for people to cry about Lee going to NY for money instead of somewhere else where the fans are saints. (which is untrue obviously but won’t stop the crying)
Lee himself brushed the situation off – correctly – as a few fools out of 50,000.
west coast nancy … haven’t had much time lately to post, but I can still see that you’ve made the usual group of enemies.
Different blog … same dbag
CB, that was quite a pitching staff that the ’62 Giants had, though. Jack Sanford won 24, Juan Marichal won 18, Billy Pierce won 16 and Billy O’Dell won 19.
GB7, fortunately for me, the 60 series was before I became a Yankee fan, so I missed it.
However, I remember Ralph Terry very well, during his 23 win season, especially Game 7. Very fluid motion.
asd, funny is ok.
I’m all about Cliff Lee, but it was good for him to get rocked tonight. Everyone needs to be humbled once in awhile. Tonight he got his.
KPB, they did pretty well indiviually today but the Phoenix team lost 5-4. Romine was 2-4, Pirela was 3-4 with a couple of doubles and Laird was 1-4 with 3 strikeouts and a solo homer. Heyer pitched ok.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/.....n_perwin_1
I’ll link the other page that gives the winter kids stats through yesterday.
Here’s the winter stats so far through last night’s game (Tuesday)
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=nyy
Didn’t Lee get rocked pretty heavily mid-season as well?
GB7, a little trivia from the ’62 Series. Game 4, which was played in NY and had Juan Marichal start for the Giants and featured the first ever grand slam HR by the NL (Chuck Hiller) … the winning pitcher for the Giants that day?
Don Larsen, right on the 6th anniversary of his perfect game in the very same ball park.
A mildly amusing comment from the interweb:
“Amar’e has surpassed K-Rod as the 2nd best closer in New York.”
GB7
Thanks for the links. I have a question, who owns these teams? The reason I ask is because of the different organizations that have players on the same team. Is it MLB funded and all teams contribute?
Aldo, the Yanks in those days had some great young opitchers on the way up. Unfortuately they all hurt their arms and never were the same. Roland sheldon, Terry, Jim Bouton, Al Downing and probably the best two of the group, Bill stafford and Mel Stottlemyre, the only one that came close to reaching his goals. 163 wins over 9 full seasons and 2 partial seasons.
Speaking of fun trivia: http://www.sporcle.com/games/tags/yankees All the yankees trivia games you could ever want.
# GreenBeret7 October 28th, 2010 at 12:27 am
Here’s the winter stats so far through last night’s game (Tuesday)
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=nyy
_________________________________________________________________________
Wow, Laird is really tearing it up! Do you think he will make the 40 man roster (or even the active roster) when the 2011 season rolls around?
Oh, also, you can make your own for others to play. Fun!
KPB, I think the league is funded by MLB.
Dylan, Laird will be on the 40 man roster. with him playing in the outfield in the AFL, the hope is that he takes one of the utility spots out of ST. A lot of power and good average, high run production. Normally a 3rd baseman/1st baseman but learning to play the corner outfield spots.
Earlier there was talk about Wagner, check out this story.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/bl.....mlb-280320
KPB, each team can send 3 pitchers and 3 position players and they’ll all play on the same team. The managers are usually MLB coaches there to get experience. Mattingly is managing there this year.
I saw that Honus card story earlier today. Man that thing is beat up according to the description.
GB7
I was wondering how the players was decided. Why no Montero, or is he good enough to wait until ST?
The Mickey Mantle cards will always bring near record prices, much more than a Mays or Aaron card. The ’52 Topps Mantle rookie card is valued in mint condition at close to $100,000.
Asd October 28th, 2010 at 12:43 am
I saw that Honus card story earlier today. Man that thing is beat up according to the description
—————————-
Yes, it’s beat up. But, since there is only 60 known to exist it is in very high demand, regardless of condition.
Usually, if the players are from a foreign country that plays winter ball, they aren’t allowed to play in the AFL. The teams pick the players high on the prospect list or who missed time because of injuries.
>Yes, it’s beat up. But, since there is only 60 known to exist it is in very high demand, regardless of condition.
Oh, I got that, I just meant the writer of the article was kinda mean to the card.
GB7
About Mickey, if I’m not mistaking that’s in graded form. The Wagner brings that in “raw” form because of the scarcity of it.
KPB,
Just came in. How do you feel?
GB7
I forgot about the winter ball. Do you think he’ll stick from ST or be called up mid season?
On the Ralph Terry at Cooperstown story, I had one of the names of the fella’s wrong. there were 3 of them….it was Cy Young, Zack Wheat and Ty Cobb…all HOFers and he did get the names of them. Not sure how I messed that up. Terry said that one of the nicest men he ever met was Cy Young. Here’s the story.
http://pecklers.blogspot.com/2.....terry.html
KPB, I lost track of the prices long ago, but, whatever the prices are, that’s a bunch of bubble gum. Yeah, if Laird doesn’t make it out of ST, he’ll be up at the first injury to a corner player.
SAS
I’m feeling very well, thanks. How are you doing? Getting ready for your trip back east? I bet the “pup” can’t wait to see her “mom” again. I wish I could have a dog, but my apartment complex won’t allow them. I see where they’re coming from, but it still stinks.
GB7
What do you think of Montero’s chances of breaking camp with the team?
Montero? about 90% sure of it.
KPB,
So glad to hear it. Did they figure out what the problem was?
I will be glad to see her and my kids and grandson. I wouldn’t like to be told I couldn’t have a dog, but when she goes, that will be it at least for a while. She’ll be 12 Saturday. My brother in law and sister in law are throwing a party for her….oops, it’s not for her; it’s for them. We will be back here Sunday for a couple more weeks.
I’ve only seen him during the ST games showed on my mlb.com package last year (2010 season), but heard rave reviews. Can’t wait to see him again. I also would like to see the switch pitcher again. I forget his name, but how’s he doing?
Good night all. Talk to you from NY.
SAS
Wish her Happy Birthday to her… I mean them for me. Enjoy your time with the kids and grandson, That’s what I love about this time of year, spending time with family you haven’t seen in a while. That and the food. I didn’t have a dog when I got here, but if I did and they told me no, I’d have kept looking. I’m waiting on the lab results to come back. It should be any day, but the good news I don’t feel as if anything has happened. Very strange, but I’m not complaining.
# GreenBeret7 October 28th, 2010 at 12:39 am
Dylan, Laird will be on the 40 man roster. with him playing in the outfield in the AFL, the hope is that he takes one of the utility spots out of ST. A lot of power and good average, high run production. Normally a 3rd baseman/1st baseman but learning to play the corner outfield spots.
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Thanks! We could definitely use a backup 1st/3rd baseman with some pop in his bat. We also need a right handed outfielder that can start occasionally. He would be extremely useful if he can learn to play all of those positions. I would love to see him make the active roster. Always nice to see one of our draft picks make it to the big leagues with us.
Cliff Lee’s poor performance (4 2/3 innings, 7 runs and 8 hits) brings him back down to earth. It shows he is NOT infallible and that he can pitch very poorly. This is good for the Yankees.
If the Yankees look to sign him, this will bring his price tag down to earth too.
KPB October 28th, 2010 at 1:09 am
I’ve only seen him during the ST games showed on my mlb.com package last year (2010 season), but heard rave reviews. Can’t wait to see him again. I also would like to see the switch pitcher again. I forget his name, but how’s he doing?
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To be perfectly honest, I’m not sure what I think about Pat Venditte. He doesn’t do anything well except get outs. From the right side, fast ball 89-91 MPH, big curve, slider, change-up. From the left side, 82-84 MPH fastball. curve and change-up. Low walks and homers allowed, high strikeouts and lots of ground balls. He’s also about a year or so older than most players in his league. For a team like KC or Seattle that doesn’t draw well, be might help as a curiosity. Just not really sure about him.
One WS game isn’t going Lee’s price.
One WS game isn’t going ***to lower*** Lee’s price
KPB,
I have my fingers crossed you know…I do have to say goodnight. Up early in the AM to arrive after 6 PM. 3 hr time difference til daylight savings ends.
The old foggies are 60…just youngsters compared to us and our dog…lol.
*foogies
SAS
Goodnight and have a safe trip.
GB7
Thanks for the info. It was strange watching him between batters, but interesting. I would like to watch him again, hopefully in ST I’ll get my wish.
KPB, he’ll quite likely be in sT, unless he gets traded.
Well, I’m going to bed now also. Goodnight and thanks for the conversations.
GB7
I remember Joe being intrigued by him. Goodnight and I’ll see you tomorrow (today). That reminded me of “Hello, Goodbye”. But I digress, goodnight.
******BREAKING NEWS******
Kristen Lee was reportedly pelted with Chardonnay and Brie at AT&T Park during Game One of the World Series.
She was said to be unimpressed.
Developing story…
###
…This just in on that story, reportedly she is quoted as saying “Several fans had their hats on backwards and absurdly, not a single one of them had any rosin on their cap bills at all.”
Her lack of impression seems to continue…
Looking at the way the offensively challenged Giants knocked Lee around last night, it is apparent to me that the Yanks were in a terrible team slump during the ALCS. Yes, Lee was not 100% with his location last night, but the Yankees had some pitches to hit also, they just missed them.
Combine that with just 3 hits in Lewis’ second start when he had nothing-no bite on his slider, 89-92 MPH elevated fastballs catching a lot of the plate; and it proves to me that the Yanks would have lost 4 out of 7 to just about anybody.
I still hope the Yankees sign Lee, I just hope they don’t give him an absurd contract that may hamstring the team on the basis that he is some sort of mythical unbeatable post-season svengali. I have the feeling that he will throw in a few more starts like last night once he is a Yankee.
We have to give the Giants some credit I think. They aren’t an imposing offense but they are swinging that bats very well right nowas a team and knocked around some pretty good pitchers in the NLCS as well. Lee misses a lot of spots but the Giants were aggressive and jumped on them….they didn’t let him get ahead in counts and hit his mistakes.
“Cliff Lee’s poor performance (4 2/3 innings, 7 runs and 8 hits) brings him back down to earth. It shows he is NOT infallible and that he can pitch very poorly. This is good for the Yankees.
If the Yankees look to sign him, this will bring his price tag down to earth too”
Of course he’s not infallible as no pitcher is beyond pitching poorly in a game.
I really don’t think one game is going to affect his ultimate price tag all that much. Ending his season on a sour note with texas though could have some impact on his decision though IMO….which is why im pulling for the giants.
CB October 28th, 2010 at 12:04 am
GB7-
Interesting story about Terry warming up in the 1960 series. He got used quite a bit in the world series during that era.
Terry threw 25 innings over 3 games in the 7 game series in 1962. That’s quite something.
Ford threw an absolute stinker in game 6 and Terry comes up huge in game 7 throwing a complete game shut out winning 1-0 to take the series. What a game that must have been. That’s one I always wished I could have seen.
Given how much better that 62 yankees team were than the that 62 Giants team it’s interesting to think of how close that yankee team came to losing.
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CB, there were monumental rain storms in San Francisco during that World Series and I believe there was at least a 3 to 4 day delay in playing one of the games, that explains the high number of innings for Terry. He pitched a great game, though, in game 7, making up for his HR pitch to Bill Mazeroski in 1960.
Listening to Tim Kurkjian on ESPN………
Lee was missing pitches by a foot not inches last night.
A Giants player told Kurkjian the last time Lee missed location that bad he was pitching for the Indians.
Good Morning.
It’s amazing what creatures of habit most, if not all, pitcher’s seem to be.
They do not seem to respond well to extra rest.
Apparently Cliff Lee isn’t any different.
Cashman should have made the deal for Lee, you have a chance to get a player like Lee you go get him. Maybe Seattle was postering, but you make the switch on the players and eliminate the barrier and then they don’t make the trade then you know they were.
“Having to do it all over again I would have done it the same way”. Right Brian that’s why we are sitting at home right now. You have just defined the problem statement. I think at a minimum Lee gets us home field and probably we are playing in the series.
Lee had a off night, his control is usually spot on, last night he didn’t have it. I don’t think Cliff Lee has reached the level of AJ Burnett just yet. I would still have him on our team in a heartbeat.
The way the Yankees were hitting, Cy Young himself wouldn’t have had much success, Gary.
He should have made the deal for Lee? How about putting the blame where the blame belongs – on the M’s. When you reach the point of exchanging physicals, that’s it………….the M’s were stringing the Yankees along because they really wanted Smoak. Why Cashman takes any grief for this is beyond me.
Cliff Lee is not walking through that door!
[yet]
Betsy-
You hitta’ da nail right on the head.
Doreen October 28th, 2010 at 8:25 am
The way the Yankees were hitting, Cy Young himself wouldn’t have had much success, Gary.
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True, but given some better pitching performances maybe they don’t press as much. Your right the hitting was awful as the sad part of it was the usual culprits in the post season. This team won in 2009 on the backs of our pitching and the lower part of the batting order was pretty hitting awful last year also. I think pitching could have made a difference.
MTU, it’s just annoying seeing Cash take blame for things he couldn’t control and never get appropriate credit.
“A Giants player told Kurkjian the last time Lee missed location that bad he was pitching for the Indians”
Actually, he was probably pitching for the Buffalo Bison last time he was that bad.
Betsy-
Jack Z’s behavior= unethical. Nothing Cash could or should do about that IMO.
Cash must have sensed he was being “played” and refused to go along for the ride.
Betsy October 28th, 2010 at 8:33 am
MTU, it’s just annoying seeing Cash take blame for things he couldn’t control and never get appropriate credit.
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Betsy, it’s lonley at the top and that’s why he is payed the big bucks I’m sure he would be the first one to say that. Being a GM requires a pretty thick skin. We all have different opinions, but mine is when you look at the offseasons acquisitons, the Lee deal, and how the team finished up Cash had not a great year. You see it different and I don’t have a problem with that.
I think Lee threw more pitches in the middle of the plate last night than the first 3 games combined. It happens….he’s human…it was inevitable, you can’t pitch like he was forever.
I think cashman handled that just as he should have. He made a more than fair offer and the Mariners backed out for a ridiculous reason….there is absolutely no way they didn’t know Adams was on the DL…its just absurd for them to even give that as an excuse.
Gary, I have no idea what that has to do with the Ms being unethical, but you are entitled to your opinion of course.
I don’t dislike Lee personally, but given how the media has made him into a demi-God and considering I hate the Rangers currently, I’m glad he got hit.
Well we all knew Lee was due for a stinker. Unfortunately it came about a week too late.
Blake-
You mean Cliff Lee isn’t really an android after all ?
I’m shocked.
By the way, I think he was off because of the long layoff.
Not that it matters.
MTU,
I think that certainly contributed to it but I give the Giants credit as well. They had an aggressive game plan.and they made him pay for the mistakes he made. To get Cliff out early you have to hit him and knock him out….he’s not going to give it to you and that’s what the Giants did. They didn’t let him get in favorable counts and they swung at pitches they could hit.
I don’t dislike Lee personally, but given how the media has made him into a demi-God and considering I hate the Rangers currently, I’m glad he got hit.
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Hope so, I think many of us are hoping he comes to NY. Lee would make a great Yankeee and carry on the traditon of some of the great Yankee Pitchers we have had. Happy he got hit, I don’t know? The Rangers have never had success for their fans and their community. It would be nice if they won it all.
New Post: The importance of change
The annoyance about the attention and adoration Cliff Lee has gotten this week is how most non-Yankee fans feel for much of the baseball season hearing about Derek and Alex and CC and Mo and……….
Gary -
Cash himself said he didn’t have a good winter.
But the thing with that is, you often don’t know until the season plays out whether or not you had a good off-season. The reasoning behind most of his moves was sound.
As far as the Lee business goes, I have a feeling Cashman didn’t have a good feeling about how things were playing out. For one, it was very un-Cashman-deal-like for us to have been so in on the happenings so early in the day and so far before the end of the deal. With Cashman, most if not all of the time, we don’t find out until the papers are signed, sealed and delivered. There was a lot of leaking of information, and I doubt it was coming from the Yankees camp, because they don’t operate that way. That tells me the Mariners wanted the details known. I think the Mariners wanted Smoak all along; if the Rangers didn’t deal, they may have taken Cashman’s deal, but they were using the Yankees’ offer of Montero to set the market. IMO.
Dor
een,
Totally agree.
Mariners backed out for a ridiculous reason….there is absolutely no way they didn’t know Adams was on the DL…its just absurd for them to even give that as an excuse.
*****
Their “excuse” was not that they didn’t know he was on the DL. Their legitimate reason for not going forward with the deal was that the injury was more severe than they originally thought (or were told). There’s nothing ridiculous or absurd about it. Why would a team want damaged goods? Physicals prior to deals are routine and, apparently, this deal didn’t even get that far once the second opinion on the medicals was given.
http://tinyurl.com/259foht
But, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
GM’s do what they feel is best for their team and that’s exactly what happened here, on both sides. The M’s weren’t comfortable with the level of injury the player had and the Yanks didn’t want to give up anyone else. That’s the business of baseball. It remains to be seen how the prospects the M’s received pan out and whether, in the end, they are better than what they gave up for Lee in the first place.