World Series ratings dip without Yankees
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 28, 2010 
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Game 1 of the World Series was the top-rated program on television last night, and drew the fifth-largest prime time audience of the week. Among Adults 18-49, last night’s game averaged a 4.7 rating to give FOX its best night of prime time television in that demographic since the network’s American Idol finale in May.
Even so, compared to last year’s World Series Game 1, last night’s audience was down 25 percent in ratings and down 23 percent on average audience. Compared to the last non-Yankees World Series Game 1 — Phillies-Rays in 2008 — the opener was up 3 percent on viewership.
All of that is according to press release from FOX.
A few notes on tonight’s game…
• Pregame broadcast begins at 7:30 p.m. ET. First pitch is at 7:57.
• Tim Wakefield was announced as the Roberto Clemente Award winner.
• Country music trio Lady Antebellum will sing the National Anthem. Nothing against that group, but I can’t imagine them being the best trio to sing the anthem in the playoffs in San Francisco. Back in 1993, the Grateful Dead gave a tremendous rendition of the Anthem.
• The ceremonial first pitch will be a combo, thrown by the Megan Armstrong and Nancy Mitchell, the daughters of home run hero Bobby Thomson.
• Apparently Ron Washington saw all he needed to see of Vlad Guerrero in right field last night. Here are the lineups.
RANGERS
Elvis Andrus SS
Michael Young 3B
Josh Hamilton CF
Nelson Cruz RF
Ian Kinsler 2B
David Murphy LF
Matt Treanor C
Mitch Moreland 1B
C.J. Wilson LHP
GIANTS
Andres Torres CF
Freddy Sanchez 2B
Buster Posey C
Pat Burrell LF
Cody Ross RF
Aubrey Huff 1B
Juan Uribe 3B
Edgar Rentaria SS
Matt Cain RHP
Associated Press photo of the Giants helmets
Go Yankees !
Chad, once again I thank you for yet another perfectly chosen picture.
Asd-
It’s pretty cool, right? I love the side-by-side helmets for the switch hitters. It’s one of those things where you pause for just a second and think, why does Torres have two?
switch hitter
It’s one of those great pictures, because it’s so simple, but you can just look at the picture for a while and find so much detail.
Cash… Read the first part of Chad’s message. He knows.
That link to the Dead rendition of the anthem is fantastic! So much for those who said they couldn’t sing. Just awesome.
Yeah, I was more thinking to myself and type it out.
Chad -
If you had to make a choice between Gil Patterson and Scott Aldred for pitching coach, what would it be?
Is that Will Ferrell pitching?
I find it very easy to root for the Giants. Will Clark was one of my favorite none Yankee player growing up…
WCYF -
the Giants game we went to over the summer was a tribute to Jerry Garcia and the surviving members of the band sang the National Anthem. They were really good. I didn’t know what to expect, but I was pleasantly surprised. They look like heck, but the sounded good.
Al-
I don’t want to pretend to know which one of those is a better pitching coach. I know Aldred, and I thought he did a nice job with that Scranton pitching staff last season, but what a pitching coach does and controls — and what success is because of him — is really hard for anyone outside of that world to judge. Personally, I’d love for Scott to get it because he’s a good guy and I like talking to him, but professionally, I have no idea which one is better.
CJ throwing balls? Shocker!
On May 7th Jeter was hit by Beckett in the back with the bases loaded and that I believe started his hitting decline.
–
Don’t be fooled. Go back to even game 1, I was already sounding the alarm because Jeter wasn’t squaring up pitches or fouling them like he usually did and was hitting all grounders. He had a very lucky April with how few line drives and fly balls he hit to end up batting near .300. Of course once the worm turned his average began to drop.
He was not going to succeed this season batting like he did in April, it didn’t look like 2009 Jeter at all.
Cain looks very locked in right now.
To paraphrase Jerry Garcia…..Jeter is “old and in the way.”
Jerkface was monitoring it all year
Don’t be fooled. Go back to even game 1, I was already sounding the alarm
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I recall making jokes about how his ground ball rate was something to “monitor”
Turned out the joke was on us.
Its true. I monitored the hell out of it. Heres to Jeter signing a relatively light contract and returning to form.
Damn…
That should be our guys going down feebly.
Oh man, Cody Ross is about to crank one out of the park
Cain is able.
The Jerkface knows his stuff.
We had some fun at his expense, but he was right.
Turned out to be gallows humor
And by out of the park I mean, out of the third baseman’s range for a double…
This guy is obscenely hot for the player that he is.
Radio, yes Ross is hot right now and that makes it good for the Giants Fans out there. Can’t ask for anything better than to be hot in the ALCS and WS.
Is this a contract year for Cody Ross?
Tom in N.J. October 28th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
The Jerkface knows his stuff.
We had some fun at his expense, but he was right.
Turned out to be gallows humor
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Of course, he also sounded the alarm on every player on the team and was one of the first to want Cano gone for anything breathing in 2008.
Is this a contract year for Cody Ross?
————
final arb year I think.
Not even close to true. I’ve been an ardent supporter of the yankees, especially Posada, A-rod, Tex, Giambi, Cano, etc.
Was the Jerkface even around in ’08?
I’ve been around since 2007.
I am a font of logical wisdom, for 3 years running.
I remember Jerkface in 2007, just an rosy cheek lad and full of hope before treading into the dangerous world of interweb baseball…
>Jerkface October 28th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
I am a font…
So… You’re Comic Sans?
Wing dings. But I cut my teeth on internet baseball long before 2007.
I hope Selig and the suits at MLB are happy with the ratings tanking 25%
I hope Selig and the suits at MLB are happy with the ratings tanking 25%
———–
Like they have a choice?
Man I am googling myself from 2008, and I just found a post where I defend Cano’s season due to his unlucky BABIP. Man I’m good.
>Jerkface October 28th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Man I am googling myself from 2008
Whoa buddy, this is a family place.
Man I’m good.
———
I agree Jerk.In my limited exposures to interweb baseball, I have learned one truism. The face does not tell lies.
Of course the ratings would be down, New York and Philly have a population base of 10 million people – while San Francisco and DFW have a population base of about 2.8 million.
Boy Cain looks good.
GREAT PHOTO!
hamilton & cruz should borrow some “flexseed oil” from bonds
Chad , get one of the yanks helmets like that next yr… Awesome
Baseball is a simple game.
- Good pitching = wins.
- Good command = good pitching.
>Chad , get one of the yanks helmets like that next yr… Awesome
Or ask AP to get one, rather.
Most runs in the game = wins
i wonder how much difference the 3 million cablevision customers without the game makes.
I even defended the irascible Cody Ransom. GB7′s failed snaps are so funny, I got to relive a lot of glory in 08. Defended the likes of Ransom, Edwar, and Giambi from the masses.
And yet no where did I say trade Cano for anything breathing
That the team scoring the most runs wins the game, is stating a rule of the sport. It’s not an explanation of how one achieves the goal of scoring more than the other team.
>That the team scoring the most runs wins the game, is stating a rule of the sport. It’s not an explanation of how one achieves the goal of scoring more than the other team.
So… you DID read that back before hitting enter, right?
What’s up whodi
Yes Asd and it’s a perfectly appropriate response to this:
GreenBeret7 October 28th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
Most runs in the game = wins
Yes. I know, it just looks like you said “The team who scores the most runs wins is not an explanation of how scoring the most runs wins”
In 1833, the great sabermetrician Jebadiah Wyndan Howlingworth decreed that baseball is 12.2 percent of irascibility, 11.8 percent of luck and 60 percent of the matter known as antimatters and whatever that’s left is attributed to a bottle of Bombay Sapphire.
Those Newtonian laws of baseball has stood firm since then.
Tim McCarver Jr. is the prince of baseball cliches. That’s all he speaks in because he thinks it makes him sound intelligent.
Giants squaring up CJ Wilson
It was in the context of the first post. Baseball is filled with complexity and nuance, that’s what makes it a beautiful game. Watching Can tonight reminded me of how simple the game is when you have a good pitcher with good command going for you.
The opposite of that was the pitch Renteria just jacked. Straight, chest high and down the middle.
sp Cain
That photo is awesome. A Yankee one would make a great wallpaper or screensaver.
^ Yes, did not think of that.
West Coast Yankee Fan October 28th, 2010 at 9:25 pm
sp Cain
———–
I expect you not to call out others for spelling, grammar, and typo issues going forward.
Well… there goes the double play. But now they don’t need it.
Cain is making really big pitches when he needs them.
The Yanks are too cheap to have separate cubbies for switch hitters
http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpr.....#038;h=180
Swish’s hat’s are in different cubbies. And is that pic from current or old Yankee stadium?
Matt Cain and John C. Reilly — separated at birth?
I’m guessing the NYS.
Otherwise Swisher’s helmets wouldn’t be there….
Ha! Wow. Stupid by me.
# Asd October 28th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Swish’s hat’s are in different cubbies. And is that pic from current or old Yankee stadium?
—————
Maybe it’s not Yankee Stadium at all.
I got that pic off this site, who knows?
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/guide/yankee-stadium/
hardwired7 October 28th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Matt Cain and John C. Reilly — separated at birth?
I was just thinking this.
Funny how people have determined Nolan Ryan’s pitching philosophies as fact all ready. I’m not disagreeing with him, but pitch counts became monitored AFTER young starters started going down due to injuries after throwing a ton of innings in the prior season. We still haven’t gotten to the 2011 season to see the effects, particularly on CJ Wilson.
But again, I don’t quite believe CJ’s arm is going to fall off. We will see.
Huh, okay Tom. That surprises me. I guess I figured they did everything top of the line at the NYS… that doesn’t look like it fits. I the “cubicle” setup better.
TR10 October 28th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
*************
Get lost troll.
Rangers suck.
Rangers pitchers only went above 120 4 times, and the highest was 128. They threw less than 120 pitches in 90% of their starts. Nolan Ryan’s philosophy is bunk.
>rb from LI October 28th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Huh, okay Tom. That surprises me. I guess I figured they did everything top of the line at the NYS… that doesn’t look like it fits. I the “cubicle” setup better.
I concur.
To All the Troops here and abroad,
God Bless and you’re in our thoughts and prayers.
Is that a Panda behind home plate?
Russo asked Valentine today if he felt the fairy dust yet. It may be the Giants year.
Nobody cares what that obnoxious jerk Russo has to say, except maybe you.
little duck snort and good baserunning by the Giants.
really? Rangers only play well against AL teams.
This is really something else
Vietnam Veterans Color Guard led the way in the 1993 WS….what a tribute.
GreenBeret7 October 28th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Nobody cares what that obnoxious jerk Russo has to say, except maybe you.
———————————-
Mad Dog is OK, GB, it’s not fair to put him in the same category as the other idiot. At least he’s an honest fan, not a trolling syncophant (sic).
This WS feels weird, for reasons I can’t understand.
Thanks for your opinion PinkBeret. Take care now!
Our Yankees about to take a two games-to-none lead on the Texas Rangers .
Woohoo !
…so the Yanks take the place or whoever is winning, regardless of AL or NL?
I find Russo to be entertaining and informative. He knows a great deal about baseball and his memory is outstanding. I can understand if some don’t gravitate towards his “style” but if one understands what it takes to succeed in radio, he’s got it. There’s a reason he makes $3 million a year.
MG October 28th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
GreenBeret7 October 28th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Nobody cares what that obnoxious jerk Russo has to say, except maybe you.
———————————-
Mad Dog is OK, GB, it’s not fair to put him in the same category as the other idiot. At least he’s an honest fan, not a trolling syncophant (sic).
———————————————————————————————————————-
It only took one time of hearing them talk/scream for me to figure out that they were the only two voices more annoying and sickening to listen to that McCarver and Buck. I would listen to Howard Cosell on old broadcasts before them.
NY Times reporting Jose Guillen was left off the Giants postseason roster because MLB notified the team Jose is involved in a DEA investigation regarding HGH.
So BIG Al is “small” Al and GreenBeret is “PinkBeret”. I’ll tell ya, very interesting that Ruby Tuesday usually posts after you WCYF in the post- season here.
Man Posey hosed Andrus if Renteria catches the ball….
pat, if that’s true, isn’t that Guillen’s second hit?
Espn’s stuff on Guillen so far: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=5739358
GreenBeret7 October 28th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
MG October 28th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
GreenBeret7 October 28th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Nobody cares what that obnoxious jerk Russo has to say, except maybe you.
———————————-
Mad Dog is OK, GB, it’s not fair to put him in the same category as the other idiot. At least he’s an honest fan, not a trolling syncophant (sic).
———————————————————————————————————————-
It only took one time of hearing them talk/scream for me to figure out that they were the only two voices more annoying and sickening to listen to that McCarver and Buck. I would listen to Howard Cosell on old broadcasts before them.
——————————-
it’s been a long time since I’ve listened to Mike and the Mad Dog or either of them separately but back in the day they were hysterical together. I think the act got old and stale, just like Talk Radio has on just about every topic.
Yep. Guillen’s 2nd hit. He’s gone for 100 games if true.
“Guillén was linked to performance-enhancing drugs in the Mitchell Report. He was suspended for fifteen games in 2007, but like all players mentioned in the Mitchell Report, he received amnesty. In 2009, he acknowledged that he had worked “for many years” with Angel Presinal, a personal trainer closely linked to performance-enhancing drugs and who is currently banned from Major League clubhouses. However, Guillén states that he has not worked with Presinal since 2004, though they remain friends, and he continues to claim that he has never used or been offered performance-enhancing drugs”
What a thrill that must be walking off the mound in your home to a thunderous ovation after pitching almost 8 shutout innings in the World Series. Sure the money rocks – but so does that moment.
GB
“This is not the first time that Guillen, 34, has been tied to performance-enhancing drugs. In 2007, The San Francisco Chronicle reported that between May 2002 and June 2005 Guillen bought more than $19,000 worth of H.G.H. and other drugs from the Palm Beach Rejuvenation Center.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10.....illen.html
What an atmosphere in SF…. wish our stadium was like that. That was like a football stadium, sounds like 90K.
MG, they’re about as entertaining as Howard Stern…in my opinion, not at all.
I don’t mind good question and answer conversations on radio/tv, but, that’s not even that. If they don’t have an answer, they make it up and pass it off as fact. Could anybody love the sound of their own voices more?
Red Lobster October 28th, 2010 at 10:24 pm
What an atmosphere in SF…. wish our stadium was like that. That was like a football stadium, sounds like 90K.
———————————
I used to live in SF about 5 blocks from the ballpark. Trust me, the fans are almost the fairest of fair weather, when the Giants aren’t good (and they haven’t since 2002) it’s so quiet in the stadium you can hear a pin drop.
pat, it’s not likely that anybody else is going to take him on again. It’s a pity because at one time, he was a fine all around ball player. He’s pretty much wrecked his own career.
Francessa is often unintentionally amusing. Like when he referred to Yankee catching prospect August Romaine the other day.
Guillen is a cancer. He was disliked here in Los Angeles during his brief tenure with the Angels. Taking on Scioscia was idiotic and he deserved the suspension.
I know this is chauvinistic, but I do not like the Giants announcer.
My favorite Francessa moment was when he was saying the Yankees should move Bernie to 1b. It was his pet talking point for a while. Then one day he had Torre on and Mike said something along the lines of “many people think Bernie should be moved to first…”
Torre said it was a dumb idea. And he never spoke of it again.
If you have a history of HGH use, why the hell would you get the stuff mailed to your home?
Tom, I think that Williams could have played first base better than the butcher they had playing there.
GB
Sad way to end a career if it is the end.
I do too. The big G was, um, not very good. To say the least….
Ladies and Gentlemen! It’s official! The Giants have won this series! Justin Bieber in a Ranger Jacket and hat in a commercial! That should about wrap things up.
I have been very impressed by this Holland kid.
GB
A few writers are saying the “butcher” would be a great bench player for the Yankees this year.
One mans bench player is anothers anonymous source.
this place is rocking with excitement. love pac bell. is this the same team that waxed the yanks
Quick! Someone tell Holland Strikes are good and balls are bad!
When was the last time you saw a pitcher throw 11 straight balls?
I don’t know, when did Javy pitch last?
pat October 28th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
GB
Sad way to end a career if it is the end.
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Yeah, it is. Sadly, there’s no real proof that the stuff even helps. Like I said…at one time, he was a fine ball player. It’s his own fault. Like Hamilton, he can’t afford another bad step.
I know a first time is 50 games, and a second is either 100 games or a year. Third time is a career. This would be a first time that any major leaguer gets a 100 game or life suspension.
I don’t recall AJ even throwing 11 straight balls…
pat October 28th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
GB
A few writers are saying the “butcher” would be a great bench player for the Yankees this year.
One mans bench player is anothers anonymous source.
———————————————————————————————————————-
“Say it ain’t so, Joe….errr pat. Say it ain’t so.”
Hope Rangers lose the series, then lose Cliff Lee.
Apparently 19 thrown in a row by Miguel Asencio in 2002. Not sure if it’s the record or not, but that’s pretty amazing.
http://www.baseball-reference......4060.shtml
Thanks Yahoo Answers
If the Yankees do decide to go after a left handed power bat for the DH role, I’m hoping that they go after Thome.
Wow. This is bad.
Looks like the Rangers may have used up all their magic in the ALCS.
Nolan Ryan is gonna blow a gasket!, 4 straight walks LMAO..
I figured that if anybody set a post season record for missing the strike zone, it would be Rick Ankiel.
Rangers were so happy to beat the “Empire”, they forgot they had another series to play…
Best news of the night:
Martin Scorcese and Nicholas Pileggi confirmed they are planning a TV series based on their movie Goodfellas.
This is the World Series, what pathetic play when the game was 2-0. What the hell is Ron Washington doing?
I could actually see Thome as a Yankee. He fits the profile in my head.
Ryan understands walks. It’s giving up hits that bothers him.
Ooooohhh boy….
Now Ryan is going to explode.
An inning like this might drive Hamilton to drink….(yes I know the guy had a serious problem, but I just could’t control myself)….
All this with 2 outs…craziness.
Ryan has 7 no hitters and 12 one hitters. Lost 4 no hitters in the 9th inning.
every run brings Cliff Lee closer to NY.
I hear Ron Washington sniffling, but he ain’t cryin.
Hopefully the Rangers Lise the series, then lose Cliff Lee…Then he’ll be Nolan Cryan….
Thome at Yankee Stadium?
This is what happens when Bieber puts on your uniform.
add 18 two hitters to Ryan’s record. Never a more dominating pitcher in history.
i just wonder if i will be back here for game 6.
Good one Asd, I ‘d like to take an electric buzzer to Bieber’s head….
I am loving this!
Do the Yankees have any say on Lee pitching on 3-days rest?
So Philly really was that good.
WOW!
8-0 Giants? 2-0 series lead? Even the most die hard Giants fan didn’t see this coming.
At one point Brian Wilson was warming up. His beard has tripled in size since then.
I despise Buck, the ultimate Yankee hater, with all my heart, but “The Giants are winning on Pitching again, but no theirs” is hilarious.
Pat M. October 28th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
i just wonder if i will be back here for game 6.
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This could turn out to be the 1960 WS where the yanks lost the 4 close ones and blew out the Pirates in 3 games.
>RadioKev October 28th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
At one point Brian Wilson was warming up. His beard has tripled in size since then.
Nice.
Holy cow, the BP of the Rangers had a hard time buying an out.
I hope the Rangers don’ t get stupid and tax our boy Cliff Lee’s arm unnecessarily…
Apparently the Rangers bullpen went home after the ALCS and was replaced by our bullpen. By game 6 I think Washington will be ready to bring out Feliz to close a game. (Not a knock on our bullpen but this game is a lot like how a few of ours ended)
rangers blow. couldn’t believe yanks lost to these f*@king losers.
once these f*@kers lose lee it will take them another 30 years to win another playoff series
Pat M.-
Good thing I got the Giants at 15:1 going into the season.
Do you think this is a case of a good team getting hot at the right time? Their pitching is obviously stellar.
And to add to RadioKev’s great post…..Brian Wilson had to redye his beard again, because it grew so much in that half inning, and looked two-tone….
At least this game had been a better game than last night’s games, at least till the 8th inning Rangers blow up.
Ron Washington is speed dialing Charlie Sheen as we speak……
Wow, 9-0, lol………I’m no Giants fan, but I hardly mind seeing the Rangers on the other end of some blowouts.
For months I’ve heard this woman screaming and clapping from the building next to mine. It drives me crazy and I could never figure out what was causing her so much excitement.
Now I know. She’s a Giant fan.
>And to add to RadioKev’s great post…..Brian Wilson had to redye his beard again, because it grew so much in that half inning, and looked two-tone….
eh…
Damn, the Giants’ pitching is just outstanding -and they are all young. It may be hard to develop young pitching, but they’ve practically cornered the market; they’re doing something right. Sabean has to get a ton of credit.
Why do they keep talking about the Giants’ “sterling defense” in game 1. They made 2 errors. Hardly made of sterling.
Betsy,
He has had tons of years of finishing near the bottom to get that staff.
Betsy October 28th, 2010 at 11:09 pm
Damn, the Giants’ pitching is just outstanding -and they are all young. It may be hard to develop young pitching, but they’ve practically cornered the market; they’re doing something right. Sabean has to get a ton of credit.
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You can get good pitching when your team stinks for a decade. Give sabean credit for that, too.
if the Yankees were playing, FOX would start these games as late as possible just to screw us…
The Rangers look old.
Washington and Hamilton just called a cab. Probably means nothing.
Why the reluctance to credit Sabean? I’m sorry, but just because you struggle for awhile doesn’t mean you’re going to develop 1 super stud and 2, maybe 3 #1s…………..
Upstart Rangers are doing exactly what first time W.S. teams do a lot : Choke !
Will be lucky to the ultimate to win 2 at home !
2-0 is a big hole against the Giants pitching staff.
ryan, daniels, greenberg & jack z – you can all go @*#$ yourself
Betsy October 28th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Why the reluctance to credit Sabean? I’m sorry, but just because you struggle for awhile doesn’t mean you’re going to develop 1 super stud and 2, maybe 3 #1s…………..
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Tampa, Washington, Oakland, Toronto, Florida….
Betsy,
Who are these 2 maybe 3 other number 1′s? I count Matt Cain has the only one. Sanchez walks a million guys and is a 6 inning pitcher who loses his composure just as much as AJ. The other starter is a kid and Zito was a number 1 like 6 yeyars ago
I’ll take the Yankees way of building winners. Develop some, buy some and keep winning. Seems to work pretty well.
party time in san fran. time to catch the muni. lefty o’douls here i come
“I’ll take the Yankees way of building winners. Develop some, buy some and keep winning. Seems to work pretty well.”
Agree
Pat, gotta love Lefty’s those are great photos on the walls. Is there still a Stage Door Deli on Geary street?
Oh yay. More Ozzie Guillen.
Betsy
How you doing tonight? I was going to answer your post of the gas/brain almost empty, but decided it was too easy and you left yourself open.
And that you were being piled on enough already. Did you get it fixed yet? I think the Giants pitching was assembled the same way the Rays lineup was. Going to be interesting to see how it pans out when the players start to become eligible for raises.
“You can get good pitching when your team stinks for a decade. Give sabean credit for that, too.”
——————————–
-Lincecum and Bumgarner were both the 10th pick in their respective drafts.
-Cain was the 25th pick in his draft.
-Sanchez was chosen in the 27th round.
Tampa has as a rotation full of aces? Right now I just see 1 – Price. What does Washington have? Florida has Johnson………..after that? Jays have a very good rotation, but full of #1s ? That’s really premature, at least IMO. Oakland?
Not every young pitcher who pitches well for a year is an ace………..Cahill and co. have a ways to go before I call them all true aces.
Don’t let facts get in the way of GB7′d attempted retorts, he certainly doesn’t.
Triple, Sanchez is a very good pitcher and Bumgardner looks like a top of the line pitcher. We’ll be very lucky if the Yankees can churn out pitchers like that.
Jerkface October 28th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
Don’t let facts get in the way of GB7?d attempted retorts, he certainly doesn’t.
**********
No kidding.
The Rays got Wade Davis in the 3rd round, Hellickson in the 4th round, and Shields in the 16th round.
The Jays got Marcum in the 3rd round and Cecil was the 38th pick in the draft.
KPB, I was only being piled on by one guy – and he’s someone I ignore, lol
No, it’s not fixed. My father went over it tonight and he thinks we need to take it to a Honda dealership……he’s probably right. Either way, I’m really sorry I let my gas run so low, but that’s a bad habit of mine. I guess I got what I deserved, lol.
How are you tonight?
None of the guys even being mentioned are aces……or close to it. It takes a lot more than one promising year to be labled as such. Of course that means Bumgardner and Sanchez aren’t either, obviously, but at worst all these guys are probably #2s -and that’s pretty remarkable.
Can’t help but think that if it hadn’t been for the injuries and late start then Hughes might be where Cain is today. They remind me of each other a little…cain is just farther along being that he’s a bit older and has significantly more innings under his belt.
The A’s got Gio as the 38th pick, Cahill in the 2nd round, Braden in the 24th round, Mazzaro in the 3rd round and Anderson in the 2nd round.
The Marlins got Josh Johnson in the 4th round and Nolasco in the 4th round.
Very easy to love Matt Cain and Jonathan Sanchez right now. Much more difficult to think highly of them even a couple of years ago.
Cain went 7-16 in 2007 and 8-14 in 2008. Sanchez was even more extreme. His first full year as a starter was in 2007 when he was 25. He went 9-12 and had an ERA of 5. Two seasons ago he went 8-12 and his control was worse than it was the season prior. He was walking close to 5 hitters per game.
If those kids produced those results for the yankees, yankee fans would have long ago chewed them up and spit them out as over rated busts.
They likely would not even have gotten second full years in the rotation never mind third full seasons to develop.
Many Yankee fans would have hated watching those guys pitch. They would have absolutely hated those two guys as they struggled and written them off.
Very few would have looked at those two guys when they were struggling and said those are guys to stick with and have patience with because while they are rough right now we still don’t know what the full extent of what they can do is given their flashes of potential.
Bumgarer is even more dramatic. At this time last year his velocity had mysteriously disappeared and he was throwing in the mid to upper eighties. When called to the majors at first he was horrible and got bombed. After that display of stuff and results many Yankees fans wouldn’t have given him another chance.
It’s just very easy to love young pitchers after the fact. It’s very easy to look at them after their teams have absorbed the inevitable lumps.
Very different story beforehand when they are developing and it’s often disappointing, frustrating and down right ugly.
SF has 3 1st round picks as starters. How often do the Yankees have a first round pick and how often have they picked ahead of Oakland, Washington, SF, Tampa, etc in the past 12 -15 years? Once, maybe?
Meanwhile, those teams can protect their 1st round picks and sign 4 Type As.
I still prefer the Yankees way of winning over stinking it up for 10 years, win once and starting over.
The Nationals rotation was led by Livan Hernandez this year.
I’m pretty sure the Nationals plucked him from the Retirement Home Softball League.
Really, CB? Wins? Isn’t that beneath you? Cain’s ERA was under 4 each of those years. He threw 200 innings in both seasons. He lost 4 games in which he only gave up 1 run in 07!
If it was up to me, the Yankees would rely mostly on homegrown players.
6 no decisions with 2 runs or less, including 0 and 1.
Matt Cain’s record is more a reflection of his poor run support, isn’t it? Actually I see on Baseball Reference that it is……..He was good in 2007 and 2008 and surely didn’t deserve his terrible records. The only bad year he had was in 2006 when he had a 4.15 ERA
I read this on the web:
Matt Cain: 64 postseason outs (21 1/3 IP), 0 earned runs
CB,
Very true.
Cain is outstanding, he really is, and he’s only 25.
Betsy
I’m doing real good, thanks. If it makes you feel any better I used to have a bad habit of locking my keys in the car, always having to call a wrecker service to unlock it at 35 bucks a pop. It finally came to an end after I was getting gas and locked the doors to go inside and pay. While I was filling up I opened the trunk to get something, afterward I closed it along with my keys inside. While waiting for Jeff, it’s sad I became first name bases with him because of our frequent encounters this way, I decided to have several keys made. I gave one to each parent, my boss, a few close friends so I wouldn’t be stuck again. I spent about 300 hundred dollars in a month for my forgetfulness, since then I haven’t had a problem.
Ouch. CB hit a wall of disagreement in that argument.
KPB, wow, lol……..I haven’t been that bad, lol.
How are you feeling?
The Yankees would’ve given Cain some run support!
He was a super hard-luck case for those years. They didn’t score at all for him. At all!
For shame.
Also, the Giants haven’t stunk for 10 years: they were in the postseason in 2003. Then they moved on to stinking.
Betsy,
I wouldn’t even refer to his 2006 as bad.
4.15 ERA, 190 innings, 1.28 WHIP as a 21 year old. Only problem was too many walks with 4.1 per 9, but struck out an impressive 8.4.
Really impressive debut IMO especially given his age.
I think CB’s point is more about fan perception than actual results.
Betsy, it’s not me that’s drooling all over another team’s pitching staffs because of one game or one season. Hughes is every bit the pitcher that those teams have produced….possibly with the exception of Price and Strausburg. I’ll wait a couple of years and see how they turn out, but, Hughes has done well in his first full year in the rotation…better than many could have hoped for. The ones coming up? We’ll see. How well will Davis and hellickson turn out? same thing. Braden is one that I wasn’t including as an ace…ass, maybe. Anderson if he stays healthy. I’ll wait to see if Cain gets better and sanchez? See me when he gets some control.
CB October 28th, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Very easy to love Matt Cain and Jonathan Sanchez right now. Much more difficult to think highly of them even a couple of years ago.
**************************************
You mean like some here on the blog treated Phil Hughes this season?
“I think CB’s point is more about fan perception than actual results.”
If you cater to the LCD, you’re doomed to mediocrity…or worse.
The fan perception on Matt Cain would’ve been Hughes-like as he racked up wins with a half-competent offense or much better behind him.
Sanchez, sure, he’s a mess.
LGY, that’s true…………..Well, so my point still stands about the Giants. I would kill to have Matt Cain………guy probably goes unnoticed next to Lincecum, but not anymore.
GB, I did not bring Phil into this – I’m not going there. Phil has absolutely nothing to do with my comments……nothing.
I don’t know what else Cain has to do…….but ok.
LGY October 28th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
The Nationals rotation was led by Livan Hernandez this year.
I’m pretty sure the Nationals plucked him from the Retirement Home Softball League.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Check what the others did in 2008 and 09 when they were healthy. That’s a handful of fine young pitching on a bad team.
It also argues in favor of giving Joba more time as a starter.
I don’t know if Cain is better than Lincecum right now but I would bet on him having a better and longer career overall….im afraid Timmy’s arm may blow up in a few years.
I can’t believe this is the same Texas team we lost to.
Cliff Lee said, If the Rangers win the WS, it would be hard to walk away. The Giants are sure making it easier Cliff.
People here often sling stats around like politicians do with economic figures. It’s easy to cherry pick stats to defend a point-of-view. I’m as guilty as the next guy or gal.
The reality is that no matter what is on the back of your card, good or bad, you will either perform or not when the chips are on the line. Cliff Lee did all year and then game one he didn’t. Does anyone care what Cody Ross did previously, or Renteria?
Rich, the Yankees also have to win………….I think they gave up on him too soon, but you if Lee is here and Andy is not, I would absolutely not want to see Joba in that rotation………..it’s nothing personal; I wouldn’t want to see any kid in that rotation. We’d have 2 #5′s.
“Really, CB? Wins? Isn’t that beneath you? Cain’s ERA was under 4 each of those years. He threw 200 innings in both seasons.”
I wasn’t citing his wins and losses as evidence for how well he pitched. I’ve loved Cain since he first came up. But how well he pitched is an ancillary to the issue.
My post was about fan’s perceptions. And perception is often highly driven by wins and losses.
In terms of peripherals and process Joba this season threw better than his ERA suggested but Yankee fans didn’t particularly care.
It wouldn’t matter how well Cain may have thrown in terms of process. He would have gotten written off as a bust if he was sub .500.
And Cain’s and Sanchez’s ERA’s are difficult to interpret because they were pitching in what was the worst offensive division that in baseball. Neither would have thrown close to those ERA’s in the AL East.
But just as fans perceptions is often influenced by wins and losses that perception doesn’t really take into account the difficulty of trying to develop in the AL East. Phil Hughes certainly didn’t get much of that benefit of the doubt this season in many quarters. The fact that he lost two full seasons of development time wasn’t given much import when people were going nuts about his lack of secondary pitches.
Brandon who used to post here was obsessed with Jonathan Sanchez. People laughed the idea of Sanchez off as a joke becuase they thought he stunk.
I’ve watched Cain and Sanchez throw quite a bit over the past several seasons. Each has gotten progressively better. But they were far from finished products when they came up. And neither one was a guy that people were glowing about widely until recently.
People frequently love young pitchers after the bad times are over, when it’s easy to do so.
Yankees have to develop young pitchers one at a time. They have to wait for him to become established and no longer a ? mark, then they can develop someone else. Which is why we will never see them go the “Generation Trey” route again. Giants can develop 3-4 at one time. Really, any team can except us and maybe Boston.
Betsy October 28th, 2010 at 11:29 pm
We’ll be very lucky if the Yankees can churn out pitchers like that.
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You mean like this? Is Hughes not turned out, yet, or just run of the mill? NYYs have what basically amounts to a 4 year old farm system. It takes a few weeks for them to bloom.
Betsy
The Yankees don’t have to do anything. It’s all self-imposed and that win now false meme was an abject failure for years starting in the ’80s.
In any event, the homegrown core is the primary reason why they have won over the last 15 years. They were assembled as a result of patience.
If they forget that lesson, winning WS will become increasingly difficult.
Betsy
Feeling fine, like nothings wrong. It’s weird, but I’m not complaining.
Phil Hughes is no longer a “Kid” in the Yankees rotation.
Name me all the pitchers, in their first full year won 18 games, and most likely will be an improved pitcher next season.
By improved, I don’t mean W-L, but control, and going deeper into games.
GB, you’re trying to pick a fight with me and I’m not taking the bait. I have already told you that Phil had NOTHING to do with any of the comments I made tonight.
Also, GB, you obviously missed my point. I’m not saying the Killer B’s won’t be good, but there is still a lot of luck involved. If one of them turns into the real deal that will be good. I was not criticizing the Yankees.
For some fans, only the other teams in MLB have young talented pitchers, never their own Yankees.
Perhaps it’s a lack of knowledge, believe, or following the minor leagues to better understand what’s in our pipeline.
CB, I was never all that fond of Sanchez, mainly because all I saw was a wild bullpen pitcher. He still tends to be wild, but, other than being left handed and age/experience, I don’t see a lot of difference between him and Chamberlain. Actually, I see a lot in common with that Sanchez and Romelo Sanchez….other than experience. You’re correct though, in that you have to give some time to see what they can do.
ET, that’s very true.
Rich, I just don’t agree that the Yankees need to go with a majority of homegrown players. We’ll never agree on this………and yes, the Yankees have to win. In this city? With the franchise’s history? It’s the same for Boston – or Philly. I have no desire personally to go with a kid in the #5 spot if it means we have 2 #5s. Nope, like ET said, it’s one at a time.
KPB, glad to hear it………….when do you get your test results back?
Later
The Yankees have a ton of pitching talent in their farm system. Some might turn out to be very good, you never know.
Sorry, Betsy, but, that is not picking a fight. That’s responding to what you said and Hughes, Chamberlain, etc is part of what you want the Yankees to produce. Perhaps, as I said, give them the same amount of experience before degrading what they have done as not being enough.
Betsy
Any day now. Not really concerned.
“Name me all the pitchers, in their first full year won 18 games, and most likely will be an improved pitcher next season.”
Not all young pitchers follow an upwards trajectory though. Some take a step back the next year, then take a huge leap the following year. Or stay the same the next year. Or he may take a huge step forward and become a stud next year. I don’t think it’s one size fits all.
Betsy
Although I would like to see the Yankees have a majority of homegrown players, I never said that they should go that route.
My point is that they need to have the patience to maintain a homegrown core and supplement it on a regularly basis.
Is your point that this city is full of idiots? Because only idiots believe that you can win championships on a regular basis in the absence of a plan that includes a significant amount of homegrown players.
It doesn’t matter if talent is home grown or not. Sabathia, Teixeira, A-Rod and Swisher proved that in 2009.
Another point on Matt Cain. During his first full season in the Giants rotation he was actually pulled out of the rotation and demoted to the bull pen in the first half of the season because he was pitching so poorly. His first season was only good because he adjusted, started using his breaking pitches more and came on strongly the second half.
That happens in New York and Cain would have been relegated to Ian Kennedyville by many in the Yankee fanbase. They would not have wanted him back in the rotation.
Again, I just don’t see what it would hurt to tell Joba to prepare this winter to battle for the 5th spot in the rotation. That would have to be more motivation than preparing for a bulllen role. Have him come in and compete with Nova etc….and see what happens….if it doesn’t work out then moving him back to the pen is easy enough…..this is of course all assuming that he doesn’t get traded, which I think is a possibility.
Rich,
What happened in 2008 probably put a big enough scare in Cashman where he won’t go that route again. Of course, it is a short-term fulfillment when you realize they have 3 years of Burnett left.
Gb7
Good evening. I saw the video of Randy earlier that you posted, very interesting. Since your an expert on older materials, could you identify who’s in this photo?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_.....discovered
Rich, where did I say the Yankees have to regularly win WS? That’s not happening – baseball is too random a sport. I don’t know where you got the idea I was calling anyone an idiot
I vaguely remember Matsui for Sanchez trade rumors.
I wonder if there was any ever truth behind those. Pretty funny to think about now with Matsui turning out to be a WS hero and Sanchez coming into his own this season.
blake – If there is a spot open, absolutely. That would probably mean Andy retired though.
Previous post was if there is a rotation spot open….obviously if they can sign Lee and Andy returns then that is preferable.
2008 was weird because Phil was pitching injured………..but that said, I don’t think it was a good idea anyway. Trusting a 21 year old as the #3 starter? Kennedy, off of 3 starts in September, as the #5?
CB, that’s all to Cain’s credit…………..
Blake, I don’t like it because I don’t want 2 #5s in the rotation. If Andy retires, then I say go out and get a solid vet. Now if even Lee doesn’t sign, then we have bigger issues.
“but, other than being left handed and age/experience, I don’t see a lot of difference between him and Chamberlain.”
I agree. Sanchez even now has poor control. Watching him pitch he looked like a ton of other guys who have gone through the league – hard throwing kids with live arms and poor command and inconsistent secondary stuff. The only way to know if he was any different was to given him a chance, stick with him through the bad times and see what you have after 3-4 seasons.
Joba is a good comparison. How many yankee fans would go ballistic if the club announced that Joba was going to be counted on to be a starter next season because the Yankees want to give him every chance to develop in the rotation? How many yankee fans would tolerate that? Because the Giants have been even more patient than that with Sanchez up to now.
Too many people like the idea of young pitching but not the actual experience involved with them developing.
The Tim Lincecum’s of the world are very infrequent.
Blake, Chamberlain back to the rotation? It’s all on him. If he comes to camp with the same mind set and in the same condition that Hughes did, he could take the spot in a walkover. If he comes in like this year, he’ll be on another team after the season is over. I just want the 5 best in the rotation, regardless of who they are or how old they are. If Lee and Pettitte are on hand, he’s got a fight. The 6th man in the rotation will be an even bigger fight for him with Brackman, Betances, Banuelos, Warren, Phelps and Stoneburner right behind them.
Betsy,….who is the 2nd # 5?
“Too many people like the idea of young pitching but not the actual experience involved with them developing.”
Yep. People are giddy about the “killer Bs” now… let’s see if that stays the same if they start off like Jonathan Sanchez
Blake, AJ…………..
Even if you think he’s a #4, he’s very, very shaky IMO
As strange as this may sound, I think signing Cliff Lee is integral to the Yankees development of young pitchers over the next few years.
With CC and Lee atop the rotation and hopefully Hughes as well, I think the Yankees will exercise the proper patience with the B’s and hopefully it will pay off as Lee and Sabathia get older because the young guns will be properly prepared to step up and compensate.
I think the Yankees will exhibit much more patience in the coming years if they sign Lee.
“Trusting a 21 year old as the #3 starter?”
That’s what the Giants did with Matt Cain.
And while you do have to give Cain tons of credit, if the Giants didn’t have enough patience to put him back in the rotation after he stunk then there would be no Matt Cain World Series hero.
And if he were pitching in NY I don’t know if he would have been given a second shot in the rotation. Ian Kennedy never did. And it appears that Joba will not have that second opportunity to reenter the rotation either.
“It doesn’t matter if talent is home grown or not. Sabathia, Teixeira, A-Rod and Swisher proved that in 2009″
Did they? I thought Mo, Pettitte, Jeter and Posada played an indispensable role. My bad.
Yanks 1
If so, Cash has overlearned a lesson and will pay for it over time.
Betsy
It can happen.
Gb,
If there is a spot open then id just like to see them give him one more shot at it. You’re right…it is all on him. The talent is there and the opportunity may be there….but he would have to be the one to decide to do something with it.
Even Lincecum was showing cracks this year, CB. Few can go through a career like Seaver before having an off year. Gooden’s a different animal. He caused that himself. I fear for the mental well-being of this board if Montero struggles at any time this year. Same with Laird, Nunez and the other kids. They get no coming of age time in NY.
Hi all,
I am just here for a minute. What was the final score of tonight’s game. I am now in Cablevision country. Obviously, the Giants must have won big.
Betsy,
The numbers are arbitrary really. AJ is going to be in the rotation….if they sign Lee then that should give them enough stability to introduce some youth into the 5th spot.
“People are giddy about the “killer Bs” now… let’s see if that stays the same if they start off like Jonathan Sanchez”
Absolutely. Let’s see how quickly people jump off the Brackman and Betances bandwagon if those two tall pitchers struggle with their command and walk 5/9. You do that in the AL East and you likely have an ERA of 5.5-6.
SAS
Hello, 9-0. How was your trip?
“majority of homegrown players”
Do a head count of the postseason roster.
CB, but SF and NY are not the same places. I do think Phil deserved a rotation spot in 2008, but unfortunately it just did not work out. I’m really sorry he lost 2 years………….Anyway, you may be right about Cain in NY, but he seems closer to Phil in terms of personality/trustworthiness than Joba and I suspect the Yankees would have given him another shot. In any case, Phil was sent to the minors in 2009, so he paid the price for his 2008.
Blake, I just don’t feel (even with Lee) about the rotation that you do. I’m fine at this point with AJ being in the rotation, but I’m not ready to go with another kid.
KPB,
The trip was good thanks. Getting in and out of gates at the airport was the biggest problem, meaning no problems at all. I am exhausted though. I don’t understand how sitting and doing nothing can make one that tired.
“Even Lincecum was showing cracks this year, CB.”
GB7-
It’s a real concern. Lincecum is still very good but his stuff looked down. It’s been trending down for a couple of seasons but this year it was noticeable in terms of his fastball. It’s that split-change that really gets him by along with the deception in his mechanics. He almost reminds me a bit of how Santana looked that last season in Minnesota.
Rich in NJ October 29th, 2010 at 12:21 am
“It doesn’t matter if talent is home grown or not. Sabathia, Teixeira, A-Rod and Swisher proved that in 2009?
Did they? I thought Mo, Pettitte, Jeter and Posada played an indispensable role. My bad.
****************
The 2009 team had both. But they had Mo, Pettitte, Jeter and Posada for the previous 8 years and they won nothing. They didn’t win until they brought in Sabathia, Teixeira, Burnett and Swisher.
“Do a head count of the postseason roster.”
Go ahead.
Hughes was in the minors for 3 starts in 2009 to get a few innings in during April. The only reason he was a bust in 2008 was trying to pitch with broken ribs.
I would be very leery of of a big money long term deal with Lincecum if I were the Giants.
“The 2009 team had both. But they had Mo, Pettitte, Jeter and Posada for the previous 8 years and they won nothing. They didn’t win until they brought in Sabathia, Teixeira, Burnett and Swisher.”
Actually, Pettitte left after the 2003 season.
They should have won in 2004, but appled. That caused them to play tight in the postseason in 200507.
But the point is that they win nothing with CC, Teix, AJ and Swisher and any other available FAs unless they had the homegrown core, and that includes the new core of Cano and Hughes.
The talk about Joba starting is a huge waste of time, he’s not a starter anymor – barring some freak injury circumstance. Cashman and Girardi have said sas much about as clearly as anyone could.
2005-07
Keyboard is sticking sorry
CB, what startled me more than the milage on his fastball was the Chamberlain like walk totals over the first two months. Low innings and high pitch counts. Almost like there was an injury that was kept quiet and he was pitching through it. I can see him having a John Smoltz type career, but, with that delivery, much like smoltz, the injuries will come with it.
He almost reminds me a bit of how Santana looked that last season in Minnesota.
–
Except he can still touch 94. Lincecum was beastly at 97, but he isn’t chopped liver yet.
“but SF and NY are not the same places.”
I know. That’s my point. People are raving about the Giants young pitching. But all of those guys except Lincecum really struggled their first couple of seasons in the rotation at different points. But that’s tolerable in SF due to expectations and how bad that division is.
Just take Bumgarner for example. When he first came up last season he just looked like garbage. He was throwing 86-88. No explanation for why. IIRC Sabean was actually saying things publicly about the loss of velocity being Bumgarner’s fault because the Giants were taking so much flack for “ruining” Bumgarner in the minors. This was one of the real hot topics in minor league baseball last season. I don’t think he’d get a second chance from yankee fans.
A year later he’s helping the team possibly win the world series. Young pitchers just don’t develop in straight pathways. It rarely ever happens.
You have to wait and give them time – often 3-4 years in the rotation before you make up your mind on how good they can be.
I assume the plan Cash is laying out right now is sign Lee and convince Pettitte for one last go round.
Then in 2012 put one of the B’s in the 5th spot.
So, the question is who you think will get that 5th spot in 2012 if this plan is executed? Brackmonster, Betances, or Banuelos?
Heading out, but interested to see the responses in the AM.
Agreed the team was comprised of both Rich – but as I said, they didn’t win for 8 years until they had a huge influx of premier free agents in 2009. That’s a fact. No?
“The 2009 team had both. But they had Mo, Pettitte, Jeter and Posada for the previous 8 years and they won nothing. They didn’t win until they brought in Sabathia, Teixeira, Burnett and Swisher.”
———————————
The won nothing, not because they weren’t signing FA. They won nothing because they were sining the wrong free agents and completely ignored the farm system.
If the Yankees had followed what Rich is advocating one can imagine the Yankees team being stronger in the mid 2000s as a result of actually having prospects to integrate.
At the very least they would have had prospects to trade for better players.
They won in 2009 because they signed the right free agents and started paying attention to the farm system in the few years prior.
A lack of homegrown development was a major and maybe even the major culprit in the mid 2000s.
LGY,
I think that’s probably their ideal plan…whether it plays out that way is yet to be seen. It seems brackman is the closest to the big leagues so my guess would be him first….maybe he gets his feet wet in the Yankee pen in the 2nd half of 2011?
I’d prefer to wait a couple of years, maybe 3, on Banuelos…to see him gain some weight and physically mature before putting him into a ML rotation. He’s about the same size as Guidry was, but, right now, he’s 19 years old.
The Yankees are still feeling the effects of ignoring the farm system.
Many of these FA signings that crashed and burned for the Yankees don’t happen if the Yankees develop players and don’t need to take risks on the FA market.
AJ Burnett likely is not a Yankee if Cash got control of the farm system sooner.
“Except he can still touch 94. Lincecum was beastly at 97, but he isn’t chopped liver yet.”
As I said – Lincecum is still very good. But as you point out he isn’t the same as he was three years ago.
And while it’s not an exact comparison I was only making an analogy with Santana. Even in his last season with Minnesota Santana could still throw 93-94 when he really needed to – he just couldn’t do it consistently or nearly as often as he could prior. His slider really dropped off the table and that was just as big an issue in the diminshment in his stuff.
Timmy has lost a tick too. Not as pronounced as Santana but Lincecum has lost a tick at a significantly earlier age than Santana did.
“Agreed the team was comprised of both Rich – but as I said, they didn’t win for 8 years until they had a huge influx of premier free agents in 2009. That’s a fact. No?”
If you want to cite one FA who made a critical difference, it’s CC.
That they couldn’t sign a pitcher of CC’s caliber for so many years demonstrates why FAs alone are an insufficient way to win championships.
Clearly it makes sense to develop players internally for cost reasons, whether they play in the show for you or become valuable trade chips. But, winning isn’t affected by the players being home grown, FA acquisitions, or obtained by a trade.
And Lincecum weighs 165 lbs with a pretty violent delivery.
13 of 25
Posada
Cano
Jeter
Cervelli
Pena
Nunez
Gardner
Pettitte
Hughes
Chamberlain
Robertson
Rivera
Thames
blake October 29th, 2010 at 12:44 am
And Lincecum weighs 165 lbs with a pretty violent delivery.
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That’s what scares me about bringing up Banuelos before the age of 22-23. He’s got a lot of time, but, he looks like he hasn’t eaten in 2 months. Not only that, but, with the lost season this year, it will take three years to get the innings up before he can pitch without limits.
Thames is sort of an outlier, pat, but either way, you need quality homegrown talent as well as quantity, and that means they need other top tier farm system players to augment Can and Hughes as Jeter, Mo, Posada, and Pettitte fade.
Maybe Gardner, Robertson and/or Joba can reach that level. Time will tell.
CB, I knew Bumgardner had lost velocity -didn’t know that Sabean blamed him. I can’t figure out why he’d have lost velocity – fatigue? Who knows.
It’s hard to develop pitching in NY – and Boston. There’s just no room for growing pains. With Phil, I’m also sure it has to do with expectations. He was expected by now to be an ace type pitcher………and people (leave me completely out of this) are concerned that he lacks sufficient secondary stuff. That is the impression I get when I visit other Yankee boards. If he turns into less than a front of the rotation pitcher, he will be looked upon as a failure and a disappointment. That’s what happens when you get hyped the way he did.
All NYYs can hope for with Gardner is that he becomes Brett Butler or Juan Pierre with a glove.
Gb7,
That’s why getting Cliff would be so nice…Sabathia, lee, and hughes would hopefully give them enough stability to develop those guys right and not have to rush them.along..
I saw Lincecum pitch last year and his delivery made me feel uncomfortable, the same way watching Vlad swing made me feel uncomfortable. From what experts have said, though, Timmy’s mechanics are very sound.
Why would anyone have the handle Green Beret ? Either cuz its a wannabe GB or wannabe perceived as a tough guy.
“But, winning isn’t affected by the players being home grown, FA acquisitions, or obtained by a trade”
Yes, it is because: 1) you can’t acquire enough top tier talent even within a $200m budget to win multiple WS, while homegrown players provide cost control (and therefore payroll space) for several seasons; and 2) any time you sign or trade for top players from other teams you never know if they will be handle the pressure of playing in NY.With homegrown players, who cut their teeth in NY, the pressure of playing here is all they have ever known, and they are more likely to be able to acclimate to it.
Rich, they really do need to develop the farm beyond the pitching; our cupboard is bare when it comes to position prospects – except for catcher and Romine has taken a pretty big hit. He’s not doing himself any favors in AZ apparently……..
“Why would anyone have the handle Green Beret ? Either cuz its a wannabe GB or wannabe perceived as a tough guy.”
A troll is going to psychoanalyze a legitimate poster? The irony.
Night everyone
“He was expected by now to be an ace type pitcher………”
That’s a completely unrealistic expectation. I never expected him to be an ace by the age of 24 – and that was even before he lost two years of development. 25-26 is the age is really the earliest age to expect that kind of performance. Look at how guys like Josh Johnson and Jimenez, etc developed.
“That’s what happens when you get hyped the way he did.”
No, not exactly. That’s what happens when you pitch in front of a fanbase that has little patience and has limited experience or understanding for how most pitchers – even pitchers who go on to be aces actually develop when they are young.
blake October 29th, 2010 at 12:51 am
Gb7,
That’s why getting Cliff would be so nice…Sabathia, lee, and hughes would hopefully give them enough stability to develop those guys right and not have to rush them.along..
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Agreed that Sabathia is a great stabalizing factor, but, as much as people dislike him, Burnett has bought the Yankees at least 3 years with the innings and I suspect next year will be more 2009 than 2010.
# GreenBeret7 October 29th, 2010 at 12:48 am
blake October 29th, 2010 at 12:44 am
And Lincecum weighs 165 lbs with a pretty violent delivery.
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That’s what scares me about bringing up Banuelos before the age of 22-23. He’s got a lot of time, but, he looks like he hasn’t eaten in 2 months. Not only that, but, with the lost season this year, it will take three years to get the innings up before he can pitch without limits.
In 2 years he’ll be at around what 200 innings? Might be up and down from Scranton and the big club.
3 years he could be in the rotation. Not bad.
Can someone…ANYONE…explain to me how we lost to this team?
Javier Vazquez, among other things, seems partially responsible for the end of Joba Chamberlain’s career as a starter. It STILL doesn’t need to be that way, but thats essentially how it looks like its going to work out.
There is no doubt in my mind that Joba would have been a better pitcher this year than Vazquez was. Now hindsight is obviously 20/20, but I think that example serves as a valuable lesson in terms of developing young pitchers. Its certainly better to endure rough patches with your own than it is with guys from outside of the organization.
Coming into this year, I’d like to see another youngster get a shot in the #5 spot. If you go out and acquire Lee, you have two guys at the front of the rotation who are likely going to throw 220-230 innings of 130 + ERA ball each. That gives you a lot of room to play around, room that you can take advantage of particularly if Pettitte returns.
I would love that guy to be Chamberlain. All year this year, he looked nothing like a 2 pitch knockout reliever. The best he looked was when he incorporated his curve to the outside of the plate and really extended his repertoire, much like a starting pitcher.
GB7
What do you think they do with Brackman? You think he ends up in the BP?
CB, fair points………..well, this is how it’s going to be as NY isn’t going to change. You have to hope that the kids you are developing have a toughness about them…………… That’s another good reason for having a vibrant farm system. You bring in FAs and as good as they may be, there are always ? as to whether they can handle the intensity and expectations of NY. With farm-raised youngsters, they are raised in the way of the Yankees and they probably have some idea of the expectations of the media and fanbase.
Night, Blake!
Now on the mlb network they are grouping Cain along with guys like Koufax as amongst the “greatest” post season initial runs in history.
They were literally doing this last week with Cliff Lee. Now that’s forgotten and we have a new all time post season great.
It’s really amazing.
Poor Lee – he’s yesterday’s news. Cain is very impressive, but why the rush to judgment? I think Doreen said this – the media coverage of Lee made me almost want to gag – I couldn’t stand hearing about him anymore. It’s one thing to say the guy is great, another for the media to basically say the team didn’t have a shot at beating him. If Cy Young could lose a few hundred games, then Lee can lose one game
Ok, night!
My choice would be to put Brackman in the bullpen in 2011 and let him pitch there in NY. If the others don’t develop as starters, move him into the rotation, but, Brackman in the pen is a killer. I see a Rich Gossage with size.
Jesus…now Cain is Koufax? Lee was Koufax until his last start. I wonder if they know that Koufax was 4-3 in WS competition. Just kidding. He was sensational on a non-hitting team.
Big Game Cain!
Can’t spell Washington’s troubles without Cain
I hope Joba dedicates himself this off season.
Someone from another board I go to saw him at a bar and had a drink with him
Lincecum and Bumgarner were both the 10th pick in their respective drafts.
******
Well, I didn’t need reminding of what “could have been”
(if ‘t weren’t for good old Bill B)
But I HAD forgotten there were 4 teams picking between the M’s and Giants that year, so I guess he wasn’t the only one that passed over Timmy…
http://plixi.com/p/53124792
Photo of Joba at the bar
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....be-ignored
Bleacher Report says we should sign VMart.
I’m a little “no” on that one.
If money were no object and they could sign vmart to a short term deal then ok….but that’s not the case. He’s going to get a pretty good.contract from somebody I would imagine and hes just too redundant with what the yankees already have for them to invest in him IMO.
I think the offense will look very similar to this year unless a trade for a young outfielder comes along that makes sense.
The changes is the offense should flow mainly from alterations to the batting order, although I have said in recent years a player with Nunez’s bat and Pena’s glove would do wonders to extend the careers of A-Rod and Jeter. if they can’ t acquire that player for 2011, it is an absolute necessity for 2012.
Also, Montero has to be retained and step up.
No to VMart.
In his post game interview Cain gave a lot of credit to Posey for pushing him to throw different pitches in different counts. Pretty amazing how quickly he has established a comfort level with that staff…impressive for a rookie catcher. Joe Mauer may be looking over his shoulder pretty soon…..
Rich,
I agree.
Rich, I agree as well – but no player wants to be paid just to sit on the bench for the Yankees and never play………
“According to major-league sources, Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria was intent on making Guillen his next manager. Talks, sources say, progressed to the point that there was discussion of executing a trade that would send Guillen, who has a year left on his contract, to the Marlins for 20-year-old outfielder Mike Stanton”
http://www.suntimes.com/sports.....29.article
Im hoping nunez can develop into that player
Guillen to Florida for Stanton? Insanely idiotic. Guillen and Loria? There’s a match made in Hell.
Betsy
The way things look at this point in time (things could change) there will be ample PT for another SS/3B.
You have to be BSC to trade Stanton for any manager.
That article can’t be serious can it…..ozzie for mike stanton?….maybe they are talking about the other mike stanton.
The same fools that declare Montero can’t catch and is too big are the same fools that have decided that Nunez can’t field. Nunez is at least as good as Pena. One only needs to look at the improvement from 2009 to 2010. Don’t forget to check his ML numbers. 1 error in 123 innings. All he needed was some fine tuning and he’ll improve even more.
I wouldn’t trade Stanton for all of the Guillens in baseball.
I think nunez has the potential to be a really good defender…I preferred Pena for the postseason roster because I knew that if either of them played then it would most likely have been at 3rd and Nunez just hasn’t played much there…..going forward though Nunez has much more upside and I hope they put him in the role they had Pena in last year in 2011.
So Nolan Ryan is in favor of eliminating the DH.
Interesting.
Im in favor of eliminating pitchers hitting….either way I do think they need to pick one and make the rules the same in both leagues at some point.
Nunez has a solid bat and can really drive the ball. Not a ton of homers but plenty of doubles and homers, plus 30 steal potential. As far as homers, if the pitcher gets careless or takes him for granted, he can lose it. His errors were cut by 2/3rds over 2009. That’s impressive. He too can learn to play a little emergency outfield.
Doreen October 29th, 2010 at 8:39 am
So Nolan Ryan is in favor of eliminating the DH.
Interesting
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That’s one rule that will never get past the union unless the owners trade off major concessions that benefit them more than having the DH. Too much money to lose.
Taking away the DH is good for the owners.
DH’s on average are very expensive..
GB7 -
Selig said it’s not even on the long list.
Not a ton of homers but plenty of doubles and ***triples***, plus 30 steal potential
From the limited amount I’ve seen Nunez it appears that he has really good hands but where he needs to improve is his footwork and throwing accuracy…..not uncommon for a yoing guy (see Elvis Andrus). Those are things that will improve….I like his potential.
Doreen October 29th, 2010 at 8:47 am
GB7 -
Selig said it’s not even on the long list.
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Selig isn’t as dumb as he’s given credit for. He knows that will never get past the union.
Yea killing the DH will put a lot of players out of jobs and shorten a number of careers…can’t see the strongest players union in.sports being too wild about that idea.
The footwork is what they redid in Scranton, which helped his throwing. He also stopped making careless errors. Jete, Cano, Rodriguez and Kelleher can polish him up.
>GreenBeret7 October 29th, 2010 at 8:43 am
Nunez has a solid bat…
God, I hope so, If these are his results with a corked bat he’s got issues.
As the game moves away from the PED-era, though, will losing the DH have the same impact?
I know it’s since changed, but historically, the DH was the aging veteran who could still hit but not play the field anymore. Now it also includes younger players who aren’t very good in the field but can hit. Maybe as the game seems to be favoring the more versatile player, at some point keeping the DH won’t be as important?
I like the DH. I don’t like seeing pitchers hit and run the bases. I don’t think they’ll do away with the DH anytime soon. But I don’t think I see the NL ever adopting the DH. If they haven’t by now, they never will.
Stalemate.
Gb7,
Yup….just needs a little polish. Most youngsters do. I like the gap pop he has.
Perhaps the only way something like getting rid of the DH happens is if it’s done in stages and MLB increases the roster to 28.
I’d prefer that they got rid of the interleague play. Only the owners like it, and then, only the NL teams that get the Yankees for their home games.
GB7 -
28 players would make sense, but how do you get rid of something like that in stages? At the outset, it would be a disadvantage to AL teams to get rid of the DH only for ASG and playoffs and interleague. Which they already do in NL parks. And one look at Vlad in the field the other night, and the fact that the Yankees could only use Matsui in half the WS games last season, well, it works out worse for the AL than the NL all the time.
One rule change that I do see happening is allowing the trades of draft picks.
Doreen, my job was to come up with the idea. It’s baseball’s job to figure out the details.
New Post: Turns out, there was a way to beat these guys
GB7 -
Interleague play is something that sounds like it should be a good idea, but in reality the games feel like exhibition games that count. Especially AL teams playing in NL parks, it isn’t the game the team is used to playing. I don’t like AL pitchers having to hit and run the bases when it’s not something they ordinarily do. I’m not saying pitchers are incapable of hitting and running, but they don’t do the same drills or have the same preparation as NL pitchers do. And they’re not going to spend an awful lot of time getting them ready for a handful of games.
Plus, I believe interleague play takes something away from the All-Star Game. Just a little.
They’re also seriously discussing expanding the playoffs with more wild card teams and a best of 7 division series. Unless they shorten the regular season, I don’t know how they accomplish this without severe weather becoming a real factor. And baseball already seems redundant by late October. If the shorten the season, they’ll have to forego interleague play, I would hope. I’d also like a more balanced schedule, and fewer 2- and 4- game series. I can dream, can’t I?
The idea of another wild car in each league makes me ill. That’s the problem with the NFL, NHL and NBA. About 6 teams DON’T make the playoffs.
***card***