Giants finish off the Rangers
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 01, 2010 
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I predicted five or six games. Problem is, I got the winner wrong.
Great series by the San Francisco Giants for their first World Series championship (since the move, obviously). I kept watching guys like Aubrey Huff and Freddy Sanchez, who spent so much of their careers playing good baseball on bad teams.
On a Yankees note, Rangers CEO Chuck Greenberg appologized for his remarks from earlier in the day: “Earlier today, in the course of praising the extraordinary support and enthusiasm of Texas Rangers fans, I unfairly and inaccurately disparaged fans of the New York Yankees. Those remarks were inappropriate. Yankees fans are among the most passionate and supportive in all of baseball.”
For whatever it’s worth, I really do fear the beard.
Associated Press photo
Like I’m buying Greenberg’s apology…………..
Funny that the winning picture is of Burrell.
The Rangers owner and fans deserved a big fat L in this series. They should try being competitive for more than 1 year before they open their mouths. It’s amazing that on the day that their team can be eliminated the owner is talking about the Yanks. What losers. It’s a good thing that the 29 other teams in baseball didn’t pay for their world series.
Agree with Betsy
Great pitchers don’t tank in world series games. You gotta be stupid to want a guy who just helped his team lose the world series by blowing it twice. What idiots.
Maybe the Rangers will trade us Nelson Cruz so they can make some changes to their old and slow and October slumping and underacheiving offense.
Giants are way too mellow in victory
One bad pitch by Cliff Lee to Rentaria cost him dearly
Eric, I’ll bet he said those words with gritted teeth. Well, he’s in the same place the Yankees are now – home, without a WS. His team had a great year, but I’m very glad they got trounced
For those of you wondering who stole the screen names of some veteran commenters back when registration happened, we can now say with certainty that it was CR9. Here he is tonight commenting as “Buddy Biancalana”, who was a really good commenter on here for a long time. And now his name is being abused in the saddest way:
“Buddy Biancalana November 1st, 2010 at 10:39 pm
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Take that, antlers!! Buncha criminals Cruz and Vlad!!!!!!! Lee’s departure will be that much sweeter, as theyre back in last place again next year!!!!!!!! POSEY!!!!!! WILSON!!!!!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Pathetic.
Randy, no question about Martin’s genius for managing. His problem was that you only had one chance to get on his good side. He also wrecked every rotation that he came in contact with. What he did to that great Oakland staff was criminal. What he attempted to do to Guidry and what he did to Leiter was inexcusable. He had too passions…drinking and baseball and he couldn’t separate them. His issues with Jackson are no big deal. They were equally to blame for that.
LMAO. Love the end of the Righetti story, Randy. You need to come around more often. You’re actually good for something besides picking on
I guess cj wilson and the rangers did not take down the empire after all…unless getting 2nd was their goal.
As ricky bobby clearly stated if you aint first your last.
Reading Rangers fans comments, the theme seems to be we lost the WS but we beat the Yankees and struck out A-Rod looking. Pretty poor consolation prize.
nick in sf-
go out and enjoy the festivities.
this is baseball history out there.
have fun and tell us about it.
Nick in SF…….Screw him and go out and have a few pops for me……And to think there was some late season concerns about The Giants covering the overs for us……
Congratulations to Nancy Pelosi and the San Francisco Giants
Yeah Nick, go get hammered.
Why are you talking to us losers?
CR9,
You are pathetic. You and Ruby Tuesday are two of the most pathetic human beings I’ve ever encountered. Sad. Really.
nick in sf post some pics of the madness
I will be out celebrating plenty, don’t worry, but I didn’t want the good name of a respected commenter to be used by CR9 without mention.
Buddy Biancalana — the real one, not this ugly fake — was a great commenter and a good guy. He bought me a beer at a Yankee game!
This is not the real Buddy Biancalana.
Sad.
How many days until pitchers and catchers report????
Grats Nick
Deepest condolences to George W. Bush, Bud Selig and the Texas Rangers.
98 days until pitchers and catchers
*BREAKING NEWS*
Bud Selig has decided to personally subsidize two more World Series games, because Chuck Greenberg guaranteed it would go to 7.
Nick’s friend wouldn’t post like that. The jig is up.
Do they tender an offer to Lee on Saturday? I’d prefer he stays in Texas & wilts in the Arlington heat OR goes elsewhere.
I almost positive ‘Buddy Biancalana’ is a Red Sox fan.
It’s CR9.
Buddy hasn’t been here in quite some time….Nick in SF is right, he was an outstanding blogger..
for what it’s worth, i just don’t like cliff lee as a yankee . can’t tell you why he annoys me, but he does. he’s a great pitcher, but somehow he just doesn’t feel like a yankee to me.
he feels more like an opponent.
someone to beat.
that said, i think he’s going to be good for awhile.
i think he’s probably going to get more than he’s worth though because of his age.
i’d like to see the yankees go in a different direction.
I dont know about U guys, but I loved seeing Lee get beaten. Not sure I even like the guy. He seems OK in interviews but I sense he’s a smug ass. Living in Philly area, its also nice to have the Giants win the World Series. Theres a new champ in town, so it may shut up the over confident Phillies fans, who Ive grown to despise. Phillies fans are ass clowns.
Buddy and CR9 have a lot in common as Red Sox fans.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnatio.....;sCat=1689
have fun
If they are going to vastly overpay Lee, do it for four years.
He’s not signing for 4 years………….
Watching this Giants team made me think about the 1962 giants team quite a bit.
As Yankee fans we have in our minds this idea that the ’61 and ’62 teams were unstoppable machines. In ’62 that yankees team was being compared to the dynasty team of the 1950s.
But the Yankees came very, very close to losing the series in 1962 to a Giants team that was similar to this one. Very good pitching and mediocre hitting.
That series Whitey Ford – one of the two greatest yankee starting pitchers of all time – had a very up and down series. Threw a complete game in game one for the win. But then the yankees lost the next two games he started and he only went 5 innings and then 4 2/3 innings in those next two games.
The Yankees had a chance to close out that series in game 6 and Whitey threw a horrible game – 4 2/3 and 5 ER. And that forced a game 7.
I can only imagine what Yankee fans now would think of Whitey after that kind of effort. No way he could be a an ace or a great pitcher. He threw 3 games in the series and only had 1 win. He pitched the yankees out of game 6 – he gave them no shot to win.
It was Ralph Terry – yes Ralph Terry the player still seen by many as one of the ultimate “choke” artists of all time – who then got the ball in game 7 and threw an absolute gem. Complete game shut out. The Yankees needed that because they could only score 1 run that game. 1-0 game 7 win.
Maris hit .174 in that world series. Mantle hit .120.
Ralph Terry really was and is thought to be one of the biggest “chokers” of all time for giving up Mazeroski’s homer in 1960. And there he was in game 7. Whitey had just completely collapsed the game prior. The yankees two biggest hitters weren’t hitting at all. And that “choker” comes up with one of the greastest pitching performances in the history of the world series literally picking up a series of legendary players who were underperforming terribly.
It’s comical to listen to fans talk about players being “loser” or “chokers” based on small samples of events. Fans who have never even been close to as good at anything in their lives as an even poor major league player is at baseball.
Before the game tonight mlb network was interviewing Juan Marichal and he told a story I’d never heard. Marichal was throwing game 2 for the Giants. The giants were leading 2-0 with him on the mound. He was bunting and got hit on the finger. He had to leave the game and was lost for the series.
Marichal doesn’t get hit on the finger and the Giants very well win the 1962 yankees. That would have meant that yankee team would have lost 3 out of the 4 world series they got to.
Probably leading many contemporary fans to think of them as “losers.”
A long time coming for the Giants to finally prevail. Very sweet that the underdog Giants rose above it all and they are now king of the hill, top of the heap.
Even better that they beat the Rangers who knocked off the Yankees.
SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS now WORLD CHAMPIONS ! ! ! SWEET !
Remember some Yankee fans drooling of Vladdy last week.
Some Rangers fans tonight:
“Goodbye Vlad”
“F**** off Vlad”
“Let Vlad go please”
“Vlad be gone!!!”
Randy, what direction? They need another top of the rotation starter and there’s no one else………….he fits YS perfectly. There’s always a risk with an older pitcher, but he’s a great pitcher and he’s available………
randy – Agree 100%. People need to stop thinking short-term with him.
“He’s not signing for 4 years………….”
Then I would pass…………………
Giants win the WS and we see a photo of Burrell who contributed a big nothing.
Yankees should sign Jorge De La Rosa, he is younger than Cliff Lee and JUST as left handed. FACT.
I wonder if Bruce Bochy has picked out a spot in his den to hang a set of antlers?
The Yankees won’t be passing, Rich – they know they need him
“If they are going to vastly overpay Lee, do it for four years.”
That would be ideal. He is going to be 33. I would not go all out to sign him. If he signs for a fair deal, fine, but CC AAV? 5-6 years till he’s 37-39? Not worth it.
It was nice to see the Texas Freeloaders lose the World Series – it would have been a shame if they won having bought all their late season additions with other people’s money. Its also nice to see that assbleep Nolan Ryan get that smug smile of his wiped off his fat texan face…how do you make severed antlers with your hands?
Today the good guys won in baseball (sorry hawk harrelson) and it was nice to see bud selig and the slimy used car deals he made with his buddies in texas get thrown back in their faces..
btw – brett gardner, nick swisher, derek jeter, and even texiera and arod – take a look at aubrey huff and see what it looks like to get a bunt down – the #4 hitter for the giants who never had a sacrifice bunt in his life executed it perfectly…..thats how you play baseball…learn something for next year..
Love how laid back Lincecum was with the interviewer from Fox – keeping it mellow even with the trophy in his arms. Coolest non-Yankee since Ichiro . . . And Madison Bumgarner, and the preternaturally mature Buster Posey (who has a wife!!!) . . . it’s a Millenials coming of age party!!!! Kid pitchers, kid catcher – maybe the Yankees farm being pitcher and catcher-heavy is even more of an advantage than anyone realized lol!!! Congratulations and all props to the the Giants and especially that dominating starting staff. Our resident prophets Pat M and SJ44 called it from the get-go – the Giants were for real, and whatever team got hot and stayed hot for a month would win it all . . .
“Randy, what direction?”
betsy-
there’s about 360 pitchers out there in major league baseball.
the yankees don’t need any one pitcher.
you have to understand that i never liked mussina either. i felt as long as they had him they’d never win anything and they never did until he left.
it’s a gut feeling. some people don’t like the term “real yankee”, but i know what i mean when i use the term. lee doesn’t fit as a yankee in my mind , just like mussina never got what being a yankee was all about.
Betsy
They may also vastly overpay Jeter. That doesn’t make it right.
I have to admit the Giants were fun to watch and it was fun to watch the Rangers lose.
Now let the Hot Stove begin!
And lol to Lincecum referring to Bumgarner as a “20 year old kid” . . .
Lee’s agent is known to be planning to use Jamie Moyer as a comp.
Lee will get 7 years and STILL fall 5 years short of Moyer.
Cliff Lee just lost 2 huge games, let the Rangers overpay.
And I agree with Randy. He’s comes across as a mercenary and smug personality. Randy Johnson lite.
Andy might retire and AJ is inconsistent, so I think the Yankees will go after Lee.
——————————————
Props to the Giant starting pitchers. Young guns.
People forget that in 1962, Terry a 23 game winner, was also 2-1 in that WS. He gave up 2 runs in 7 innings in his first start and lost, the won game 5 by allowing just 3 runs in a complete game. in those 3 games over 25 innings, 17 hits, 2 walks, 16 strikeouts and just 5 runs. He lost that first start, 2-0. Some choke.
The real loser of that game 7 in 1960 series was stengel. It began by not starting Ford in Game #1. It ended with him having Terry warm up in every inning from the 2nd thru the 8th innings. terry was gassed before ever entering the game.
I only know of the 1969 Amazing Mets but the 2010 SF Giants with their young pitching should draw comparisons. It’s ironic that Nolan Ryan is on the losing end of this one. In my mind, this is the biggest underdog to win a World Series since those 1969 Mets. Their season nearly ended on the very last game of the regular season. They had to get through the Phillies and a Texas team that destroyed the AL East.
How cute was Jeremy Affeldt with his son.
cb-
i can still remember the shock when mcCovey hit that that rocket to end the series to richardson.
the only thing as a kid i can remember scarier was when the crazy guy on the airplane pulled back the curtain on twilight zone.
edit: I only know of the 1969 Amazing Mets through classic reruns…
I am a third generation Yankees fan really bummed the Yankees didn’t advance. That said, as a 37 year Bay Area resident I am really HAPPY! Giants fans are really hard core like East coast fans. No doubt if Yankees faced SF I’d have been rooting for the Yankes but I am happy for a lot of folks here. Takes some of the edge off. 4 months til spring training games!
DiMaggio had that same type attitude as Lee seems to have.
Randy, seems I remember hearing over and over how the Yankees would never win with Alex. Lee isn’t a favorite of mine, but I wouldn’t mind seeing him pitching for the Yankees.
Randy I….
who on the yankee staff is a “real yankee” burnett?, vazquez?, other than pettite and rivera is there anyone else that you can label real yankee? sabathia?…well if CC is a real yankee how can lee not be – they came from the same team – they are work horses and bull dogs that want to finish what they start (lee moreso), They, like rivera, are grace under pressure when things get a bit nerve racking…true professionals (not into pie throwing or wetting their diapers when a team gets 2 hits in a row on them), always say the right thing, take it like a man when they fail (even jeter snuck out of the clubhouse a few times when there were questions to be answered)..
you are entitled to your opinion of course, but lee is as close to a real yankee that there is IMO..
I’m curious….who of the 360 pitchers would you label a real yankee?
“the only thing as a kid i can remember scarier was when the crazy guy on the airplane pulled back the curtain on twilight zone.”
Now that I remember.
# LGY November 1st, 2010 at 11:17 pm
Buddy and CR9 have a lot in common as Red Sox fans.
————————————————————————–
Huh? I am the real Buddy B, but have take on a new handle.
I’m a Red Sox fan, what in the hay are you talking about?
Rich, the Yankees won’t view it as overpaying; they need him and they’ll do what it takes to get him. As Cash has said, you don’t nickle and dime players you want.
Randy, I think that was a just a coincidence with Moose………but in any case, the Yankees need a pitcher like Lee to go with CC as I don’t love the rest of their rotation.
When’s the last time a baseball team won a world series with shut down young pitching supported by a group of castoffs this big? The list includes: Aubrey Huff, Edgar Renteria, Freddy Sanchez, Cody Ross, Pat Burrell, Jose Guillen.
It’s been taken care of and I can vouch for dc in el cerrito as the real former commenter Buddy Biancalana. Good to see you here, Buddy!
Now I’m going out to soak in some of the celebration, see ya!
Cashman needs to go, you had me until you called out Jeter, Tex, and A-Rod – top of the food chain championship players, bunting, or the lack thereof, is probably not the reason they’re home right now.
Also does anyone recall John Flaherty talking about the amazing chemistry of the Giants on a postgame show in September? That made an impression on me. I did not give enough credit to their pitchers as they faced National League hitting. They proved me wrong!
1969 Amazing Mets.
Couldn’t agree more, Brett/Randy, re: Lee
Do not go overboard for this guy. He’s not the 2008 CC Sabathia
He’s definitely not the 2008 Sabathia but he wants the same contract.
Pass.
That liner by McCovey almost drug Richardson against the right center field wall.
The play of that series was Maris and Richardson into believing that Maris could throw. He had a bad shoulder and to Richardson that he might have 1 throw a game in him and told richardson to come as far out to right field to take his throws on fly ball catches. That’s how they conned Matty Alou into stopping at third base on Mays’ double in the 9th inning.
It was quite a feat to hold that Giants team down as well as the Yankee pitchers did. Those guys could mash with anybody in baseball and they could pitch and run,
“Rich, the Yankees won’t view it as overpaying; they need him and they’ll do what it takes to get him. As Cash has said, you don’t nickle and dime players you want.”
Betsy
They can say that black is white, but it’s still black.
Did Cash say that about AJ too? Not that they are comparable, but overpaying has consequences…at least until they substantially raise their payroll, which I don’t see happening.
lil m – i have a hard time understanding how if you are a baseball player you don’t know how to bunt….that has to be one of the easiest things to do in baseball…i’m not saying thats why they lost all i’m saying is learn how to do one of the easiest things in baseball and you become an even better player…
if david ortiz can do it (and get about 5 or 6 extra hits per year with the shift) why can’t arod and tex – much better athletes – do it?
Rich, the point is that they won’t think it’s overpaying……….
Maris and Richardson ***conning the Giants*** into believing that Maris could throw
sabathia gets what it is to be a yankee.
burnett clearly doesn’t.
i prefaced my remarks with “for what it’s worth” because i realize ” real yankee” is a quality that’s tough to define, but i know it when i see it.
for instance i never liked cervelli. not ever. i always liked cano.
it’s not just about hustling or some quality iike that. there really is an intangible to being a yankee that you can see when you watch for 50 years . especially when you had the good fortune to grow up with mantle, yogi, whitey, howard, etc showing you what real yankees looked like.
“i can still remember the shock when mcCovey hit that that rocket to end the series to richardson.”
That’s what was so great about that game and that series. It encompassed so much of the nature of the game.
The yankees can’t score in game 7 and scratch across a run. Terry is throwing a great game and then finally gets into a heap of trouble. Scorching double that perhaps could have scored the tying run. Men on second and third with mccovey up. He hits a legendary rocket but it just happens to be right at richardson. A few inches either way and the yankees lose that game and lose that world series. That’s all the difference between hero and “choker.”
Can you imagine the scorn Terry would have been subjected to if Richardson hadn’t caught that ball. He would have been out on the mound of game 7 losses in ’60 and ’62. The fact that Ford pitched so badly in game 6 would have continued to be forgotten and all that would have been remembered was the game 7 loss.
But people tend to just forget all of those difficulties because in the end they won. It’s easy to think about that team as this quintessential powerhouse but came within a few inches of losing to a giants team that seems to have been fairly similar to this one.
And no series win in 1962 would mean that people would view the 1961 team entirely differently because that team would have then lost in 60, 62, 63 and 64 an likely looked at somewhat similarly to the braves teams of the 1990′s.
Gardner is a true yankee.
CB, Pat M, and GB-
Just wanted to let you guys know I really enjoyed reading your insights on this thread. I wasn’t around for most of these previous World Series but reading your guys stories about them and insights really is very rewarding and simply awesome. Thanks for that
.
Assuming Andy retires, and remember he was out a long time with injuries, the starters will be CC, AJ and Hughes. That’s why I feel they will sign Lee. Maybe for too many years and too much money but that is what the Yankees do.
Randy,
I can see where you are coming from, but realistically what pitcher would be better for the Yankees the next few years. You were right about Mussina, but I thought he was a terrific pitcher. I just want the Yankees to get a guy, hopefully only one, who can take the Yankees through the next couple of years til these kids are ready to pitch without limits and all the garbage that has gone on with Hughes and Joba.
Saying there are 360 pitchers out there gives us no idea who you think the Yankees could get to fill such a spot and be a good match.
Randy I – i respect your opinions on here more than almost all of the regulars (being from hermosa and all)..
so i’m really intrigued what pitcher(s) out there do you think is a real yankee…for what its worth – i never liked mussina either….and was kind of glad he retired the year before the yankees won a WS..
DC/real buddy
I was just joking to get fake buddy/CR9 riled up.
SAS, what did the Yankees do that was wrong with Phil? Do you not approve of innings limits?
I admit that I do not know what a real Yankee is. AJ may not be a very good pitcher, but he’s a good teammate. He spent time learning Chinese so he could communicate with Wang – that was just one thing.
Tyler, that play, all set up earlier in the series, by Maris and Richardson is the difference between gamesmanship/heads up play then and now. you don’t see that sort of thing any more and you never see things like Maris’ arm problems being kept quiet. That’s why Cashman and especially Girardi doesn’t shoot his mouth off in the press about injuries.
# LGY November 1st, 2010 at 11:56 pm
DC/real buddy
I was just joking to get fake buddy/CR9 riled up.
———————————————————————–
Gotcha, good strategy that worked on the wrong person.
I sent an email to Chad, hopefully fake Buddy is outta here.
Tyler-
Just to be clear – I never saw that 1962 series other than highlights. That was way before my time.
I know the events of that series and what happened based on books I’d read as a kid. I used to read a lot of old books about baseball.
I loved reading those books though. I remember reading about McCovey coming the plate and Richardson catching the ball with my heart in my throat. I had no idea what the outcome of the series was when I was reading about it so I used to root very hard for the yankees as the pages went by.
“Gardner is a true yankee.”
he’s getting it.
just like kubek, richardson, martin. bauer, etc did.
real yankees don’t have to be superstars.
Wow, did Lee lose some of his luster over the past 6 days, or what? From 7-0, ERA 1.4+ career postseason to losing two games against SF, a hot team, but one that shouldn’t do this to a stud pitcher. That’s EDGAR RENTERIA who just bashed his 86 MPH spinning 2-0 cutter into the night. Didn’t see this series coming for Lee, that’s for sure.
I honestly believe that NYY has a better chance to sign him now, given the Rangers’ series loss. Maybe that’s misguided, but who knows.
If Cashman signs him, though, the outcome of these two outings won’t matter at all. He’ll need to overpay, both $ and years, just like with CC. We can only hope that the next 1-3 years brings a title while these guys are in their primes. I am very curious about Montero; that’s a big reason why I’d like to see them nab Lee. If we don’t, I think Jesus is gone in a deal for a starter somewhere.
Damon, though his time was short, was a true yankee.
GB-
I didn’t know about that particular aspect of the Series. I had heard about Richardson snagging McCovey’s liner but didn’t know that. It certainly was a different game back then. Now if a guy spends an extra 2 minutes in the hot tub after a game it is front page news on espn.com and the whole world knows about it…
Betsy
The point is that it will be no matter what they tell themselves.
___
Giambi was a true yankee.
I don’t believe there’s any such thing as a true Yankee; if you put on the pinstripes, you’re a Yankee.
You just know when someone is a true Yankee. It’s one of those things that you can’t quantify. It’s not a ring thing either… is Mattingly more of a true Yankee than Burnett? Of course.
When you see a true Yankee, you know it.
CB-
That’s awesome. I was glad to see the Giants win tonight. They have mostly done it the right way building that pitching staff. They really got hot at the right time. I thought they were done when they lost that game 2 to Atlanta on the Ankiel homer. They just felt like a team of destiny after winning that series. They are tough in the playoffs with that rotation. If those guys stay together and they have enough offense I could easily see them repeating. They are built for a short 7 game series..
I really like Cliff Lee. His age is a concern. But he has that yankee feeling about him to me. Reminds me a bit of Jimmy Key only with better stuff.
Betsy,
It seems to me that when a pitcher gets to the majors he should be able to pitch a full season without limits. As it is, pitchers rarely pitch more than 7 innings anymore. I don’t think it should take 3 years in the majors to be major league ready is what I am trying to say. I think Phil is a fine pitcher, but another years in the minors would have made him ready to take on a greater burden, not put him in the bullpen, etc.
Nick Johnson, True Yankee.
I don’t even know what a Yankee feeling is……………he’s a tremendous pitcher and that’s enough for me.
Every marquee player who has played for us except Mussina is a true Yankee.
SAS, well you could make the argument that Phil should have stayed in the minors and started in 2009………….but the 3 years thing is not accurate as he was hurt and missed almost all of 2007 and 2008
another think I love about CC is he is a team player who demands the ball and willingly will take the ball on short rest for his team. I’ve seen the same from Halladay….Lee not so much
So Lee is not a team player?
True Yankees to me come up through the system. We actually have a lot of them. Everyone thinks we buy a team, but only when there is no minor leaguer to play that position. There are others like Teixera that come close in my mind.
Lee just doesn’t go on short rest for whatever reason. Maybe he’s just not nearly as effective. It takes a certain type of pitcher to go on short rest. If he’s not going to be good no sense getting hammered.
One thing about the McCovey at bat…Ralph Houk had gone to the mound to have Terry walk McCovey and terry said that he didn’t want to face Cepeda on deck. Houk also thought about bringing ing Marshall Bridges, but, decided to go with Terry. After Houk left the mound, Terry told Richardson to move 2 steps towrds the first base line because he had lost a bit off of his fastball.
cashman needs to go-
for one thing . i’d like to see joba get another shot at starting.
the new pitching coach could have some impact on developing joba and maybe fixing burnett to be at least a useful mercenary.
no team is going to be filled with all stars with revenue sharing the way it is. if some other team gets lee that team’s hands are tied financially. is that team really going to be a threat to the yankees ?
if lee stays with the rangers they probably are screwed because they won’t be able to afford other players.
i liked sabathia. i don’t like lee. explaining why someone annoys you is tough to do.
i’ll be the first to admit it’s not a rational thing.
“True Yankees to me come up through the system.”
Paul O’Neill begs to differ.
A few comments:
Chuck Greenberg, it’s going to take quite a bit of time for you to live down today’s comments. The Yankees’ big contribution to the General Fund allowed your team to bid on Cliff Lee in the first place when they literally were in bankruptcy court. The comments about the Yankee fans were in poor taste, unprofessional, and a transparent ploy to try to get Cliff Lee to sign with you. Karmic justice is in order, however. Not only will your team NOT sign Cliff Lee, but now you have a fan base which will expect big things from you every year. Have fun dealing with that kind of pressure not yet 3 months out of bankruptcy court.
Cliff Lee is now the Marian Hossa of baseball (hockey fans will get that analogy). Hockey fans will also remember that Hossa won the Cup with the Blackhawks on his third try in three years with his third different team. For those of you thinking that Lee will sign with the Rangers before free agency, simply listen to his post game comments. He was gracious, but clear that he will explore the market. And who is the market? just one team, deciding how much they want to pay.
Giants were for real (at least from September 15th on). If this doesn’t make everyone believers in the theory that hot starters are what make you win in the playoffs, I don’t know what will. Their hitters, with a few exceptions, were retreads like Pat Burrell (11 strikeouts in 13 AB), Aubrey Huff, and (yes) Edgar Renteria. Yet the WS trophy goes to SF, for all their years with Willie McCovey, et al.
tampayank,
I don’t think you are being fair to Lee. He has been traded and traded again. He hasn’t had the opportunity to settle with one team. That’s not Lee’s fault.
Lee annoys you because he jogs off the field. Who else jogs off the field? Cervelli. Coincidence?!
Congrats to the Giants. Considering how Texas’ owner acted today, I smiled wide when Wilson ended the series.
I think Cliff Lee did the Yankees a favor. He’s not getting a 7 year deal anymore. He’ll only get 6 if it’s a dealbreaker between bidders.
I also wanted him to lose again in the WS before hitting free agency. I like when the Yankees bring in guys who haven’t won rings yet. It may turn out to be the little extra motivation the team needs at times.
The other thing is after how Greenbugh acted today, I can guarantee you that if the Texas Rangers retain Lee through FA they are going to pay Yankee prices to do so. Not sure that’s the wisest way to run a team in year one.
5 days till free agent madness starts. I can’t wait.
A 21 yr old Madison Bumgarner was going to start on 3-days rest if it went to a game 7, but Lee couldn’t?
Bunting is a useful skill, for sure, but apparently not very popular from what one sees – although Jeter is a very capable bunter. Shocking to hear that Ortiz can bunt – the mind boggles trying to picture it . . . You nailed it with the “Texas Freeloaders” – Bud probably didn’t think the fairytale would end quite like this heh heh heh.
always thought that Lee pitched like Jerry Koosman and Frank Viola. Although they all had good stuff, they pitched like it was better than it really was.
“Nick Johnson, True Yankee.”
nope.
real yankees have high pain thresholds.
think mantle .
Chuck Greenberg is just very lucky that George Steinbrenner is not around anymore. The Boss would have ripped him a new one after those unprofessional comments.
I seriously doubt that these 2 WS games will have any affect on the contract that Lee gets.
“Paul O’Neill begs to differ.”
graig nettles too.
he totally was made to be a yankee.
Pitchers who throw 95+ regularly don’t throw it down the pipe with as much impunity as Lee does.
Chambliss should have been a career Yankee as well.
Greenber’gs comments were just pathetic. The owner of the team had already mentally checked out on his team while they were still alive in the world series and was moving ahead to free agency.
That is just hard to get over. That’s how much the yankees are in that guys head and how psyched out he is about trying to retain Lee knowing the yankees are going to try to get him.
How can you not be completely focused on the game at hand? Very weak on his part.
Agree, Randy, those 2 guys are exceptions to my rule. They are 2 of my favorite Yankees of all my years.
“I really like Cliff Lee. His age is a concern. But he has that yankee feeling about him to me. Reminds me a bit of Jimmy Key only with better stuff.”
see, that’s what makes this blog interesting. one of my favorite posters takes an opposing position.
cb-
what if joba could be developed and be a consistent winner with a new pitching coach?
do the yankees still need lee with the big contract that likely would be a problem 4-5 years down the road
This “True Yankee” stuff is divisive and alot of bull.
Pat, I agree………….
I wonder what Lee thinks about his owner acting the part of a clown? Maybe he doesn’t care at all, but he sounds like a stooge- and he did give up on his team. He’s trying to convince Lee to stay in the media by trashing the Yankees…………smart.
Take a look over at ESPN. They did a poll on where Cliff Lee would sign.
54%, most of the country, thinks it will be with the Yankees
23%, in Texas, Oklahoma, and Idaho, thinks it will be Texas.
23%, in Maine, think somewhere else (?Red Sox, or wishful Sawx thinking)
CB,
I wouldn’t call Hal and Cashman vindictive, but if there’s a way for them to drive up the cost of doing of business for the Texas Rangers when they are trying to sign players I don’t doubt they will.
If the Rangers end up keeping Lee they will be paying Yankee prices which can cripple that team for years if it doesn’t go well.
Then when Hamilton hits free agency in 2 seasons (I think) I can imagine the Yankees making them overpay for a guy who, by then, will be on the verge of leaving his prime years.
Greenberg is a jerk. I wanted Hal to come out with a statement today to defend his customers, but I think the statement is going to come 5 days when free agency begins.
I just don’t believe “in my heart” (to quote Kristen Lee) that Cliff Lee is going to leave money on the table to stay in Texas, a team he has played 1/2 a season for.
Texas thinks it can win the prize by disparaging NY.
They’re wrong.
I also retain high hopes that Joba can figure it out and start again. With that said, I think there’s room for both Lee and Joba in the rotation.
I think that Pettitte will announce his decision before Thanksgiving and Lee is in no hurry. The rush to sign Lee quickly isn’t as much when they Have Pettitte’s answer. If Pettitte retires, I’m guessing that Lee is signed before the winter meetings. NYY isn’t going to have two unproven pitchers in the rotation again.
I actually think they should tell Joba to come to spring training ready to start and give him the same chance they did last season with the proviso that the bullpen is waiting for him if the team doesn’t feel he’s starter material.
I don’t think there’s anything to be lost by dangling the carrot in front of him and letting the new pitching coach evaluate him as a starter.
Cliff Lee pitched Philly through a WS and had no intention of not trying out free agency so he was traded.
If he’s still on the market 5 days from now, he’s all about contract not proximity to Little Rock.
I don’t like that idea, GLove, because I do not think we can afford to have another #5 starter in our rotation (along with AJ)……
Pam B in Santa Rosa
November 1st, 2010 at 11:45 pm
A Giants Fan in Santa Rosa, CA perhaps ? ?
Also, the Yankees should be consistent. They made Phil go to the minors in 2009 and he only was recalled because Wang got hurt. If they want to give Joba another chance to start, send him to the minors.
“This “True Yankee” stuff is divisive and alot of bull. ”
Is that wrong?
“This “True Yankee” stuff is divisive and alot of bull.”
no, you just have to squint your eyes just right and you’ll see this blue aura or you won’t
Scott Brosius and Tino, too. Especially Tino.
“Is that wrong?”
If you like BS, no.
“Scott Brosius and Tino, too. Especially Tino.”
yup.
“If you like BS, no.”
Blatant Ssarcasm?
But not Wade Boggs.
Hughes in 2009 and Chamberlain in 2011 are not the same thing. Hughes was going to the pen if Wang could rebound. Hughes also went to Scranton to get his innings in because he wasn’t needed for the rotation. Hughes came back and made 7 starts before going to the pen. Hughes also had a limited amount of innings pitched over the past 3 years. Less than 200 innings in the majors and minors combined in 2007 and 2008.
Wade Boggs was a major impetus (by example) toward the Yankees becoming a high OBP team.
“But not Wade Boggs.”
no, not wade boggs, but he fit in well in the short run.
there should be a name for those kind of guys.
ed_price Cliff Lee: “I expect this tm to do some really good things next yr. I don’t know if I’m going to be part of it or not, to be honest w/you.”
Tino was awesome, just awesome. A total gamer. Old school and hardnosed never looked so good lol. [okay gratuitous girly moment over]
“Blatant Ssarcasm?”
Ooops, sorry for stuttering.
While the Yankees were babying Joba and Hughes, with innings pitched, Joba rules, etc., Lincecum, at age 23, pitched 146 innings and at age 24, he was already over 220 innings. Now, at age 26, he is one of the top pitchers in baseball.
The Yankees ruined Joba and they have stunted Hughes’ development because of all their rules and restrictions.
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player....._id=453311
“ed_price Cliff Lee: “I expect this tm to do some really good things next yr. I don’t know if I’m going to be part of it or not, to be honest w/you.””
He is so gone.
“what if joba could be developed and be a consistent winner with a new pitching coach?”
randy-
I’d absolutely love to see that. Two years ago Joba arguably had amongst the best stuff in the game. That’s still in there somewhere.
To me though the immediate issue with Joba to straighten out isn’t his role it’s the way he throws the ball.
He simply doesn’t throw the ball the same way consistently. His throwing mechanics can change not only from game to game but pitch to pitch.
I talk about being patient with young pitchers and you really have to be. But one thing that’s very, very difficult to deal with is a young pitcher who doesn’t repeat his mechanics. There’s just no way to be an effective major league starting pitcher over the long haul of a season if you can’t do that.
Could Joba learn that again? Could a new pitching coach help? Sure. But I think it’s important for him to be able to demonstrate that over an extended period of time, most likely out of the pen.
He has to be able to throw better. His stuff fluctuates so much it’s hard to pin down what he is. It’s been that way for the past two seasons. You can manage that much better out of the pen than every 5th day.
First goal for him – improve your throwing mechanics. I need to see that first. At this point he hasn’t demonstrated enough in that category to bet on him in the rotation next seasons. That’s very unfortunate – but it’s the way it is.
What I mean by Lee having that Yankee feeling is that he is good and he knows it. He knows he can execute. Yes he might be “confident” side but it seems to me that’s a good thing as he contains it.
I don’t subscribe to the notion of “true yankees.” But organizations do have their own particular cultures and I think Lee fits in with what the yankees are about and have been about.
He is a very, very impressive pitcher. And I’m not just saying this based on the past two years. He took that huge step up in 2008.
When I think of Lee and his game one word jumps out more than any other – execution. And that’s something I think is very much part of what the yankees have been about for the past 15 years.
Rangers scouting report of Renteria- Can’t play anymore.
Oops.
pat November 2nd, 2010 at 12:45 am
ed_price Cliff Lee: “I expect this tm to do some really good things next yr. I don’t know if I’m going to be part of it or not, to be honest w/you.”
———————————————————————————————————————-
Not even a “But, I hope so.” Not good at reading between the lines, but, I don’t think I need to be The Amazing Kreskin.
rich in nj
i agree about boggs and teaching other yankees how to take pitches. he set an example.
mattingly was the opposite with his philosophy that just because a pitch wasn’t a strike it didn’t mean he couldn’t hit it.
a close friend of mine, carl taylor, was the yankees game time BP pitcher from 91-96 and he just raved about boggs as a hitter. taylor knew a thing or two about hitting having spent a couple of years as a teenager being fishing friends with ted williams in the florida keys. carl’s half brother was boog powell too. and carl did hit .348 one year with the pirates.
he liked mattingly a lot too, but boggs was a great hitter.
In all of this, I am not discounting that many of these guys played well for the Yankees, and it is not intended to be a criticism of them either. When you think of Dave Winfield, Reggie Jackson and David Justice…all of whom made terrific contributions to the Yankees, I don’t think of them as bleeding pin stripes. Catfish Hunter and Jimmy Key were wonderful pitchers, but they weren’t true Yankees from my perspective.
The Yankees haven’t done anything to stunt Phil’s development although you could say being in the pen had it’s positives and negatives. Injuries didn’t help ……though of course it’s hard to say where he’d be if he hadn’t been hurt. I love how people just trash innings limits; I guess it’s macho to just let kids go out there and burn themselves out. I do think they rushed Phil in 2007 – I will always think that’s true -and Joba probably should have been in the minors in 2008.
“Rangers scouting report of Renteria- Can’t play anymore.”
guess they just used the old red sox scouting report.
double ouch for the red sox.
I dont know about U guys, but I loved seeing Lee get beaten. Not sure I even like the guy. He seems OK in interviews but I sense he’s a smug ass.
*********
Couldn’t be further from the truth.
Well, not like I know him personally or anything but, during his time here in Seattle we saw a guy who was concise in his comments but also humble and with a great sense of humor. He took responsibility when it was warranted and never assigned blame (and with that offense and that defense – he could have assigned a LOT of blame). Players and reporters alike were impressed with the leadership role he took. The young pitchers raved about his willingness to share his knowledge and experience.
I guess all this to say that, despite his stumble in the WS, the team that ends up with Clifton Phifer will be getting a decent guy as well as an ace pitcher.
Technically, we don’t know if Joba’s stuff is still in there……………..I don’t like that they gave up on him as a starter (and they have – Cash said it, he’s a reliever) because what does that say about how they will handle their up and coming youngsters? I guess in NY, even with Cash and his love for home grown players, you get MAYBE 2 chances – if you’re lucky – and then that’s it.
Amazing that Pettitte gives up a 3 run homer and is a stud with guts after the loss because the Yanks didn’t score and Lee gives up a homer in a game that his team didn’t score and he’s a gutless choke artist.
***2 run homer***
G. Love-
What Greenberg did was remarkably amateurish. The yankees are no longer a particularly emotional organization. They are very professional and very precise.
There’s a reason why Greenberg was forced to provide an embarrassing retraction on the day his team is playing the biggest game in it’s history. I’d guess the team that contributes the vast majority to the revenue sharing pot had a word with the commissioner.
It is very dumb to try to drag the yankees into the mud thinking it’s going to give you some tactical advantage in retaining Lee. It is not going to work and they are going to hurt you in some way.
I don’t think this is some big deal to Hal and Cash. But I also don’t think they are just going to forget this and shrink from it.
Amateurish is the best way to describe it.
He pretty much told his own ball club don’t worry if you lose tonight we already won our world series in the ALCS. Let’s start worrying about free agency now.
By the way – you gave me some advice once on how to deal with the filter here and I am eternally grateful. I had just typed out that long response to Randy and it kept getting caught until I figured out the filter may not like a certain synonym for “arrogant.”
Lee is just being honest………..
The only thing that “stunted” Hughes growth was injuries.
incecum, at age 23, pitched 146 innings and at age 24, he was already over 220 innings. Now, at age 26, he is one of the top pitchers in baseball.
–
Lincecum pitched 125 innings in 2006 in college
Was drafted, pitched 31 more innings in 06, so 156 IP
2007 170 IP
2008 220
Its a logical progression for a young pitcher to make. Once you get within reach of 200 the limit is off.
You miscalculated because you forgot minor league innings
Lee is just being honest………..
–
What happened to loving this team and blah blah blah? Surprising what free agency does to the quotes.
GB, well I think being in the pen hurt him some as well, so I don’t agree….
CB,
“He simply doesn’t throw the ball the same way consistently. His throwing mechanics can change not only from game to game but pitch to pitch.”
You are absolutely right. I’ve noticed how erratic his mechanics are. I too hope a new pitching coach can bring back, what we saw in his first year.
Hughes had a choice of pitching in the rotation in Scranton or relieving in NY. He took relieving, got a lot of experience and guidance from the best pitching coach in the business. NYYs need to stunt more of their young pitchers growth so well.
Jerkface,
That is why I posted the link to his stats from MLB.com. All I did was copy the numbers. You may want to look at it.
Here it is again – http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player….._id=453311
# GreenBeret7 November 2nd, 2010 at 1:04 am
Hughes had a choice of pitching in the rotation in Scranton or relieving in NY. He took relieving, got a lot of experience and guidance from the best pitching coach in the business. NYYs need to stunt more of their young pitchers growth so well.
Taught Hughes not to nibble and attack.
Really don’t know how that hurt him.
It also helped the Yankees win the world series.
Missing two solid seasons with injuries and hardly throwing at all in his age 20-21 and age 21- 22 seasons is what hurt hughes. It wasn’t the bull pen.
People just don’t realize what an enormously big deal it is to essentially not throw the ball and get innings for two whole seasons when you are 21 and 22. It’s devastating.
Over that same age period Tim Linceum transformed himself from a college pitcher who was walking over 6 hitters/9 to a pitcher walking 4.5/9 and winning the golden spikes award.
Missing one season is bad enough for a young pitcher. Two is really terrible and a huge set back.
“I like this team. It’s a very fun team to play on,” Lee said. “I expect this team to do some really good things next year. I don’t know if I’m going to be a part of it or not. To be honest with you, I would love to be, but so many things can happen. You never know.”
Is the full quote, FWIW
Randy are you in the South Bay? Fat Face Red Sux bar, etc?
Hughes grew up during the 09 season in the bullpen
cb-
lee didn’t figure it out until he was 29. joba will be 25 next september.
i think some people are more intuitive than others.
and some people are more rational than others.
but both rational and intuitive people can get to the same truths.
i’m pretty sure i can tell a real yankee player when i see one.
and i’m pretty sure you can tell a good player from the way you see the game.
neither one of us is all rational or all intuitive, but we do look at the game from our strengths.
i think it’s interesting we often get to the same conclusion with a different approach.
i’m saying that i think lee will be a bad signing over the long run.
you’re saying it’ll be a good signing especially in the short run.
if they do sign lee, it’ll be years before we actually know who was right.
and if the yankees win a world series in the short run with lee , but lose a lot in the end of because of his contract then we might both be right.
Licecum’s minor league stats.
http://www.baseball-reference......ncec001tim
CB, those lost years were huge…………..I hope he can get them back. Well, I guess he can never get them back……he just might not reach his peak until later than people thought.
I agree about all the good things the pen taught him…………I guess he lost that attack mode thanks to the injuries……and it’s to his credit that he took on the challenge of being in the pen instead of sulking.
“i’m saying that i think lee will be a bad signing over the long run.
you’re saying it’ll be a good signing especially in the short run.
if they do sign lee, it’ll be years before we actually know who was right.
and if the yankees win a world series in the short run with lee , but lose a lot in the end of because of his contract then we might both be right.”
I don’t disagree with your argument…the final years of Lee’s contract will most likely end up being great for him and not-so-great for the team. But do you really think the Yankees – of all teams – will let a bad (or a number of bad) contracts from signing the next big contract? I don’t. Most other teams – sure. Texas was saddled with ARod, for example, and couldn’t do a thing until they moved him. Yanks signed ARod, and many other ridiculously large contracts afterwards. And short of the Yanks being sold to a new owner, I don’t see that practice stopping.
Hopdevil, that’s a big difference; guess Ed Price could only be bothered with the more provocative quote
With all of the talk about the young pitching that NYY has in the minors, the one kid that gets overlooked by most is Brent Marshall, a 20 year old coming off of surgery and still getting in 80+ quality innings this year. Probably start in Tampa and be in Trenton by mid season. He just might end up being the best of them all.
Betances and Banuelos still need to build innings after injuries, but, they’ll get there. The rest of the kids are getting their innings…all with 130-170 innings last year. That’s something that Hughes and Chamberlain didn’t get the chance to do because of emergency needs in NY.
The good thing about Hughes lost time to injuries is that none were arm/elbow/shoulder related. Ribs and groin related.
Phil and Joba were guinea pigs in a way – ironic, considering how highly they were regarded. They were supposed to be the future of this team, but they were rushed to the big leagues because of needs and not given the time in the minors they needed. I hope the Yankees don’t do that again.
I’m not saying they still aren’t part of the future, but for kids that were looked at as crown jewels, they sure weren’t given the time they needed.
“but both rational and intuitive people can get to the same truths.”
randy-
I think that’s a good way to put it. I’d also add this – I also think valid intuition is very real. It can be very infrequent and when not valid very misleading but it’s real. It comes from having very deep understanding of an area, IMO.
One would think that great mathematicians are the most rational people possible. And in many ways that’s true. But what’s so interesting about them as a group is how much they depend on intuition. One of the major projects in 20th century mathematics was the attempt by a sector of the field to remove intuition from the field and ultimately that project was proven to be impossible (and that’s proven mathematically). It’s actually a great story.
And your right right about Lee – given his age he is a real risk. I would never disagree with that or look past it.
What can I say – I just have a good feeling about him!
Actually, I just really like the way he throws the ball. When it gets down to it that’s a lot of why I like him. Watching left handed pitchers throw is so often just painful. They so often throw the ball so badly – pushing it, throwing across their body, etc.
Lee throws the ball very well. My sense from that is that he’s going to hold up well. But it’s clearly a risk.
And statistically speaking – your right about him. Chances are his contract won’t be worth it.
On this point though I think I’d trust my intuition!
Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup )…….I’m hoping the Yanks can get Lee to sign a 4 year deal, although I’m certain the least he’ll ink for will be for 5 seasons…..3 Lee like seasons out of him would be great before he begins to decline…….I just don’t see him being a Barry Zito type ….Well at least Barry gets his ring even though he never tossed a pitch…..[ettite walks, Yanks are in dire need for Cliff Lee and his pinpoint cutter…
Betsy – I was surprised when I read the Price quote; it would be foolish of Lee to distance himself from any club at this point. Regardless of his actual intentions, you would think he would at least act like he’s open/interested in staying in Texas for purposes of negotiations.
So I found the full quote and agree with you – seems like Price is anxious to get the hot stove fire stoked right off the bat…
Lee, four years and an option at a lower price?
# Betsy November 2nd, 2010 at 1:23 am
I’m not saying they still aren’t part of the future, but for kids that were looked at as crown jewels, they sure weren’t given the time they needed.
Yankees had some rediculous amount of injuries to the rotation when Hughes was called up.
The Yanks didn’t make Hughes crack his rib. Or rip his hamstring. Stuff happens
They also didn’t make Joba hurt himself in Texas.
Hughes is on the right track. He had a great season. Joba needs to drop some pounds. His mechanics need change.
I mistakenly called Marshall “Brent”. It’s “Brett Marshall”. Still, by any other name, he’s a stud in waiting.
ridiculous not rediculous lol
GreenBeret7 November 2nd, 2010 at 1:30 am
Lee, four years and an option at a lower price?
_________________________________________
My bet would be 5 for $125M. With Rangers offering between $80M – $100M for 4 or 5 yrs respectively.
Betsy, you only need to look at the innings the kids in the minors are putting up now to realize that they aren’t being rushed (except for Banuelos, in my opinion). They are all putting up big innings throughout the system.
Click on any team in 2010 and see what they are going.
http://www.baseball-reference......cgi?id=NYY
“What can I say – I just have a good feeling about him!”
cb-
like i said, you have your own intuitive feelings too . just like i have a rational thought every now and then( despite what gb7 says)
the rational side of me gets that he’s a very good to possibly great pitcher. we agree in the middle about the facts about him. we would just make a different decision in the end about whether he should be a yankee or not.
interesting baseball discussion tonight. i enjoyed it.
The only rational thought that Randy has had is that I know more than him.
pat m-
good to hear your thoughts on lee too.
i think the best discussions on the blog come when people who respect each other disagree on an issue. as gb7 says ,if pettitte retires then there’s a pretty big hole to fill next year. but if he stays, the yankees might not need lee.
the league isn’t that strong. there’s something to be said in not committing to really long term contracts. if the yankees can wait a year, maybe there will be other options the next year.
Randy, you being here only aids the cause for good baseball talk and insight, something that can go weeks without around here as of late…….Hoping for a March get together….GB & SJ are up for it as well…..
Played mlb the show with my brother a few months back.
The teams we picked?
Giants vs Rangers
“The only rational thought that Randy has had is that I know more than him.”
gb7-
one things i’ll give you is that you know more about wandering around the woods than me.
of course that’s just because of all that experience you have looking for your golf ball.
good thing you had all those survival skills as a green beret or no one would have ever seen you again.
If you guys are into a match on the golf course, make sure that your life insurance is paid up.
LMAO. Sometimes I feel like Carl Spackler when reading Randy’s ramblings.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Sandy: Carl, damn your eyes. I told you to cut the long grass on the 13th, and to mow the practice green!
Carl Spackler: I was unavoidably detained.
Sandy: You can forget about the 13th, and the practice green. I’ve got a more important job for you. I want you to kill every gopher on the course!
Carl Spackler: Correct me if I’m wrong Sandy, but if I kill all the golfers, they are going lock me up and throw away the key.
Sandy: Gophers, you great git! Not golfers! The little brown furry rodents!
Carl Spackler: We can do that. We don’t even have to have a reason.
Sandy: Then do it, man!
Carl Spackler: Alright, let’s do the same thing, but with gophers.
Carl Spackler: It’s not my fault nobody can understand what you’re saying.
Here’s a joke for you to spring on your lady, Randy.
“If a woman speaks in the forest, and there’s no man to hear her, does she still have to repeat herself?”
Wonder where Nick in SF is right about now, and what condition the lad is in ?????
Pat, Nick’s probably wondering the same thing. “Where am I and what happened to me.”
Honestly, I find it very odd that the Yankees show absolutely no emotion. Even when we won the WS last year they showed very little emotion, like it was just another ballgame won. Look at the Giants.. sure a lot never had a ring but its the fire, the excitement.. bringing the kid out in you and achieving your dreams.. if winning the WS is no longer achieving your dreams for the Yankees and they don’t have that fire and passion about it that every other team in baseball shows but them with celebrating sincerely instead of ceremoniously, then I look forward to the day that we have a whole new time that has fire..
truth is we played like dog poo; absolutel dog poo.. Our multi million dollar offense can’t hit good pitching or pitchers that they’ve never seen that other teams destroy.. something is very wrong there..
I’m not saying that nobody on our team shows fire, but the majority a WS win is worth a few fist pumps and handshakes. Maybe thats why we dont hit because we don’t have that FIRE that hunger.. love these Giants, they remind me of the Marlins first WS win.. they put the hearts on the line every moment of every game.
I love the Yanks, always have and always will.. but if a WS win doesn’t bring you euphoric joy, then maybe it’s time to move on and find something that does bring that out in you.
The giants made the rangers look like the rangers made the yankees look.. lost, overmatched and dominated. Let’s get Montero up next year.. some young arms and bring the fire with them.. the same way Cano and Cabrera brought fun and youth to this team. I never thought Melky was more than mediocre but his passion and desire were obvious with watching him play his heart out every day (even if the results weren’t there for him).
Lee was pitching, but he looked tired.. then again.. Lee has dominated the Yankees more than any other team he’s ever faced.
I am going to say it, and hate me for it.. but our offense is old.
I think Halladay would help AJ if we were able to obtain him, but oh well.. we are in dire need for a strong pitcher to replace Andy and if Andy doesn’t come back, other than Lee.. we still need another arm (from within or out, but we need one).
I wonder if Josh Hamilton is thanking the lord for the opportunity and for the loss.
http://www.youtube.com/user/da.....FBKbSuBEzY
Yankees showed no emotion last year folks.
That video is a lie.
Carl,
I am going to call you out because you really are dumb. I just watched that video, I saw 1 or 2 hugs and a very lame winning WS huddle.
Guess you were watching any of the other “we’ll put off our celebrations that lacked major emotion” post season games the past 2 years.
nice try, guy.. but the video isn’t a lie, you’re the fraud. Also, you need to be a little bit more objective of a thinker and less linear, then again.. you’re probably the idiot fan that spit out Cliff Lee’s wife and Boo’s the Yanks when they play the way the cry baby thinks they should.
If you think the Yanks showed as much emotion as the Giants did, or anything even close to it, you need to move to Cali where they just might legalize pot.
Pleasant dreams, great wondrous thinker.
2 guys hugging. The others went home in G4 Jets.
Giants did the same exact thing the Yankees did. Huddle then Jump up and down.
What the hell do you want them to do, get naked? Dance? Cry?
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......d=14873508
Please explain the difference?
Mariano didn’t do the X thing?
I guess the 2009 Yankees didn’t have the FIRE.
Bring back Melky!
What a great game last night. I got the same butterflies when Wilson was closing as I do when Mo does. And Cliff pitched a decent game, he got beat like Andy did, with a bad pitch that was the difference in a well pitched game.
I don’t understand the criticism of the Yankees, saying that they showed no emotion after winning the WS last year. I totally disagree. The WS poster I have on my wall at work shows guys jumping around, hugging, picking each other up. I recall seeing a video after they won showing the players coming from each direction to converge in a group huddle.
Good morning all!
And congratulations to the San Francisco Giants.
upstate kate-
I agree, watching Wilson pitch the ninth was as exciting as watching Mo as it could be. I knew the Giants had the pitching to accomplish this, but who knew that their rag-tag team could put it together enough to beat H2O AND Cliff Lee?? One bunch of very motivated veterans. And Buster Posey – wow. He sounded well beyond 23 years of age. Very, very mature.
It will be interesting to see what the Giants do to the team over the winter.
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And now the baseball season is officially over and the Hot Stove begins, right? There’s a report in today’s Star Ledger that 142 players have filed for free agency, including Derek Jeter, Lance Berkman and Nick Johnson (who they mentioned played 24 games – I thought it was at least 30!).
Carl, they did have injuries, but Cash had said that Phil was not going to be called up until September; bringing him up should have been the last resort. Cash should have gone out and gotten someone. Of course I’m not blaming his call up for the injuries…………not at all.
GB, I agree – these kids are not being rushed generally speaking – but Joba and Phil were.
I really enjoyed the WS this year (as much as I can without the Yankees being in it). Lincecum really showed me something this postseason….I knew he was a good pitcher but I was skeptical of how he would perform against the best competition on the biggest stage…well im not longer skeptical, the kid is legit and is great. I still have doubts about how he will hold up long term but for right now, he’s one of the best there is and an absolute gamer.
Pretty interesting quotes from Lee last night….certainly didn’t tip his hand or indicate that he was ruling out Texas, but reading those comments it sure comes across as he’s not too attached to Texas and that there will be no discounts given. Lee pitched well last night….lincecum just pitched better and the Rangers bats fell asleep. As hot as they were in the ALCS, they went equally cold in the WS. It was the Giants year. Congrats.
I only watched the 9th inning last night-and I must say Brian Wilson’s beard really freaks me out. He looks like Wooly Willy.
Reading back through the comments last night it was interesting that CB and Randy had totally different opinions on an issue but yet were somehow able to discuss it without conflict…..perhaps an example to follow?
I just hope that the Yankees do not overpay Lee because of his post-season success against the Yanks. Pay him based on his regular season body of work through his career, which will still be significant; but as we have seen with Beckett, Pavano, and others, post-season success can be fleeting.
I just wouldn’t want to see them tie up significant money past this guy’s prime, and then see him lose his PS “magic” in the 2011 playoffs.
blake -
Did the Rangers’ bats simply grow cold, or did the Giants’ pitchers put them in the deep freeze? That is the question.
I enjoyed the WS too. I didn’t expect to, and I sure didn’t expect to care who won, even though I decided to pick the Giants as my team to root for.
Lee has been around in the last couple of years. I don’t expect him to be any more tied to the Rangers as any other team he’s been with. In a way, he’s lucky – he’s gotten to test a couple of different places before he makes a decision as a free agent. I’d like the Yankees to sign him, but if they don’t life will go on and the Yankees will figure out something else – I’m sure they’re way ahead of us on that. Ultimately, though, the Yankees are at the mercy of the whim of free agents and other trading partners. They can want to do something very much, but if they can’t make a deal, it’s not necessarily showing a lack of effort or desire on their part. I hope people keep this in mind.
Blake, that’s only possible when people respect each other………like CB and Randy do.
Well, it is officially the offseason. I’m sure it will be a long, but interesting four months in the Hot Stove. Winter isn’t my favorite season, but there is plenty of sereneness to it. And for the outdoor people, plenty to do, whether it be snowshoeing, snowmobiling or skiing. So to kick off the Hot Stove, I give you winter scenes
http://picasaweb.google.com/10.....XRvM-3xAE#
Come on Cash, get it done and put Cliff Lee under our Christmas tree!!!
I hear you Blake. I wouldn’t say that the Rangers bats exactly fell asleep as much as Cain, Bumgarner and Lincecum were dominant in games 3, 4 and 5. It sure is nice to see that the Giants finally got that 500 lb. gorilla off their backs.
# Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 8:29 am
I only watched the 9th inning last night-and I must say Brian Wilson’s beard really freaks me out. He looks like Wooly Willy.
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Kinda riminded me of the sketches of the “unibomber” “:-)
Betsy November 2nd, 2010 at 8:13 am
Carl, they did have injuries, but Cash had said that Phil was not going to be called up until September; bringing him up should have been the last resort. Cash should have gone out and gotten someone. Of course I’m not blaming his call up for the injuries…………not at all.
GB, I agree – these kids are not being rushed generally speaking – but Joba and Phil were.
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It’s not the same situation. NYYs don’t have a need to push the young pitchers along faster now like they were in 2007.
JCPD-those are great pictures, even though I’m not looking forward to snow at all.
In 2007, Hughes WAS a last resort:
“Injuries sidelined starting pitchers Mike Mussina, Carl Pavano, and Chien-Ming Wang, leaving only original starters Andy Pettitte and Kei Igawa active. The team set a major league record with 10 different starters in the first 30 games, including a record 6 rookies.”
Erin, Wilson dies his beard to get that really dark black color. I believe it is only an in season thing and he shaves it in the off season.
JEKIKASO November 2nd, 2010 at 8:35 am
Kinda riminded me of the sketches of the ?unibomber? ?:-)
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Yeah, I can see that.
JCPD,
The hot stove will go well with those winter scenes.
I don’t know if Cliff Lee will end up with the Yankees or not, but I do believe after the Texas owner’s remarks yesterday, the Yankees will sure drive up the price for Texas to sign Lee. Every team wouold love to have “apathetic fans” like the Yankees who sell out the ballpark night after night.
Doreen,
Probably a little of both…its really tough to know.
Regarding Lee, 6+ years would be a risk and im hoping they don’t have to go there but I do believe he is their best option and a good fit. He’s left handed with great command and barring injury I see no reason why he couldn’t pitch well for the life of his contract. His age is a concern but he was a relative late bloomer and has less innings in his arm.than a lot of 31 year olds do…..as others have said I think he could provide a reliable replacement for Pettite and could help bridge the gap to the kids coming up through the system….and he can be had without giving up any prospects. Virtually any other direction the Yankees go in will cost them players. Lee will be expensive but the Yankees can afford the risk…
JCPD, Come on Cash, get it done and put Cliff Lee under our Christmas tree!!!
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Hoping he is on the table with the turkey on Thanksgiving !
GB ,I agree………but still the Yankees have/had to “suffer” the consequences of rushing Joba and Phil.
thanks (I think) JCPD. We have already had a little snow, but I am not ready for winter yet.
At the beginning of the series I just wanted to see Cliff lose a game, b/c I was tired of all the yapping about him, as if he could walk on water. Then the Giants sucked me in, and I was really rooting for them.
P supplied us with the dumbest post of the day before most of us has had one cup of coffee. Good job P. Good job!
I’m not in the Cliff Lee at any cost camp.
One year too many and 20 Million too much and I would be fine with the Yankees looking for a plan B.
Lee is a great pitcher and might be the easiest answer but is he a difference maker?
Yes Erin, I’m not looking forward to the long winter months either. And Fran, yes, throw another log on the fire!!
Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 8:37 am
Erin, Wilson dies his beard to get that really dark black color. I believe it is only an in season thing and he shaves it in the off season.
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I see. I say his inspiration for growing that thing is Brian Wilson the Beach Boy and Wooly Willy.
Pat,
What’s one year and 20 million too much though? I think he’s a difference maker for sure…even if he’s just solid (and not great) then that would make a significant difference especially when we look at the Yankee rotation in the 2nd half of 2010.
Winter’s not my favorite time of year because of the short days and the cold, but there is something majestic about a snowstorm and a quiet yet strong beauty that it brings. I love the way the sun sparkles on icicles after an ice storm.
But once the snowplows come through, I’m done!
where is Erica???
it is time to start the count down until spring training!!!
Betsy, there are different reasons every year why players are brought in from the minors or not brought in. The fact that they did the job they were brought up to do seems to escape you. Not every season, not every circumstance is the same. The Yankees had little choice than bring them up. They had no other choice. They weren’t going go out and trade for new pitchers because the cost for starters/relievers were going to start with Hughes and Chamberlain. Along with Kennedy, they were the farm system. They got hurt. Nobody’s fault and not mismanagement by the team.
“Lee is a great pitcher and might be the easiest answer but is he a difference maker?”
Some concerns I have about Lee:
Is he a late bloomer or is it possible for him to return to his ’07 form? It was only 3 years ago that he was sent back down to the minors for ineffectiveness.
The postseason mirage. Because he is not overpowering, he walks a fine line based on impeccable command. Will that continue, or will we see a lot of games similar to game 1?
In his career, he has given up more hits than innings pitched. Not typically what you expect from a guy about to get @20M per year.
Can the Yankees afford two huge rotation mistakes if he doesn’t pitch well? Regardless of how much money the Yanks have, they are already throwing 16M per year away on Burnett, and will be for the next 3 years. If Lee doesn’t pitch well, can they afford 36M of dead money per year? Are they willing to take that risk, or is Lee that much of a sure thing?
Doreen-I agree about the first snow of the season. For me, once Christmas is over the snow can disappear.
I believe that Erica is taking a break. I assume the BS with the trolls has gotten to her a bit…along with the news that Bert and Ernie ran off to California to get “married”.
New Post: Giants win reinforces what we’ve always known
I see. I say his inspiration for growing that thing is Brian Wilson the Beach Boy and Wooly Willy.
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Erin, I would say Wooly Willy as opposed to his wannbe cousin of the Beach Boys. Wilson does strange things, says strange stuff in his interviews and even overpainted his cleats with too much orange this year which got him fined. Can’t say that I have ever heard of a player getting fined for putting too much paint on his shoes though. Maybe it is that weird RP mentality which makes some of them do strange stuff. Al ‘The Mad Hungarian’ Hrabosky and Bill ‘Spaceman’ Lee come to mind.
The way I see it is almost every pitcher is a crap shoot. Lee has been consistent over the past 3 years since reworking whatever it was that was problematic for him. He doesn’t walk a lot of players, so the hits don’t bother me as much. He is also very efficient – able to go 8 or 9 innings, often with just about 100 pitches more or less. This is extremely important with regard to the bullpen.
Ideally, the Yankees need, IMO, 3 pitchers who can be relied upon to save the bullpen innings. 3 pitchers who can routinely be counted upon to give 7 innings with an occasional 8 (or even the rare 9). Lee is worth it for that alone.
He was undone last night by one bad pitch. It happens to the best of them.
However, if Lee is not a Yankee, he’s not a Yankee. But he’s got to be plan A.
Erin-
Yup – Christmas week is the cut-off for snow!!!
Doreen
you are right, Cliff was undone by one bad pitch, same as Andy. And w/ the Ranger’s usual offense, that shouldn’t have been a problem.
GB
can’t Bert and Ernie just go to MA?
blake
I would rather they go 4/$100M than go 6/$120M but would max out somewhere around 5/$110M and if that leaves him in Texas I’m okay with that.
GB
can’t Bert and Ernie just go to MA?
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could have but rumor has it thet are now giant fans
One thing that signing Lee and bringing Pettitte back is that it could buy the Yankees another half of a season to let David Phelps mature just a bit more. Then, if there is a need for that 6th starter, he’ll be ready. I’m betting that any winter trades will involve Ivan Nova. Perhaps he can get out of the 5th inning with another team. Noesi is a better prospect anyway, though Nova and noesi are very similar pitchers.
Kate, would you go to MA if you could go someplace else?
# GreenBeret7 November 2nd, 2010 at 9:07 am
One thing that signing Lee and bringing Pettitte back is that it could buy the Yankees another half of a season to let David Phelps mature just a bit more. Then, if there is a need for that 6th starter, he’ll be ready. I’m betting that any winter trades will involve Ivan Nova. Perhaps he can get out of the 5th inning with another team. Noesi is a better prospect anyway, though Nova and noesi are very similar pitchers.
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sometimes i think Yankees bring up players to audition for trades. Still other times i feel that could ride some of these guys. til better prospects are ready to come up.
GB
I am an east coast gal…I would go to MA before CA
Lee reminds me of Tommy John when he delivers the ball…
My head is still spinning over the idea that Gil Patterson will actually interview for the pitching coach position.
After the World Series dust has settled, the Yankees still need Cliff Lee, Andy returning or not. Do him a 4-year deal with a mutual option for a 5th year. Pitching is still Cashman’s No. 1 priority. Whatever Texas does, they’ll not match Yankee dollars. Cliff Lee knows where the best chances are to get a ring and it isn’t Texas.
This could be Chamberlain’s last opportunity to show he wants to be a Yankee. If he commits to going to Phoenix and look like a pitcher, it helps his cause. Otherwise, Cashman will dangle him in a deal. Maybe Gil Patterson can be the one to fix him. If Cashman works a deal with Kerry Wood and Andrew Brackman emerges, Chamberlain is gone.