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Gaudin and Ring outrighted, Mesa added

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 02, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees have made their first 40-man moves of the offseason.

Chad Gaudin and Royce Ring were both outrighted to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, removing them from the 40-man roster. Gaudin immediately elected free agency.

Filling one of those spots is toolsy outfielder Melky Mesa. Mesa would have been eligible for free agency had he not been added to the 40-man, hence this move being made immediately before other players are protected from the Rule 5.

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128 Responses to “Gaudin and Ring outrighted, Mesa added”

  1. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    No shock on either Gaudin or Ring being dumped. Let’s hope this Melky develops better than the last one…

    On that note: can we agree to not have a lot of “Bring back the Melk-man” talk?

    I almost had a 3 team deal to make my Wells/Morrow to the Yankees trade work – but it involved sending AJ to the Cubs and I think having AJ and Big Z on the same team would make their manager’s head explode.

  2. Zach S November 2nd, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Another Melky!

  3. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    I’m intrigued by this Mesa guy. He sounds like a toolsy athlete and under-the-radar late bloomer type (hopefully) like Cano.

    Also, when discussing Greinke’s makeup can we not use the phrase “mental problems”.

    Anxiety is a mood.

    Moods change from moment to moment, day to day etc.

    Moods are in flux.

    Moods can be temporary.

    The drug industry has oversimplified the human brain.

    It’s far more dynamic and resilient than portrayed.

    IMHO of course, but I could be crazy….

    Seriously though let’s not equate Greinke with someone like CR9. He has real mental problems where moods, thoughts and energy or brainpower are simultaneously jumbled to the point of breakdown.

    You get depressed about a girl…you move on.

    Divorce. Funeral. You grow sad.

    It’s just a mood.

  4. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    THE YANKEES DON’T UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF HAVING TWO LEFTIES IN THE PEN!!!! THEY CLEARLY HAVE NEVER PLAYED BASEBALL!!! :MAD: :MAD: :MAD:

    /GeniusMaker’d

  5. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Caps locks :mad: faces apparently don’t work :(

  6. pat November 2nd, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    “On that note: can we agree to not have a lot of ?Bring back the Melk-man? talk?”

    Says the guy working on a 3 team trade involving AJ and the cubs which is as likely to happen as Melky coming back. :wink:

  7. Doreen November 2nd, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Bret

    Sorry. You are oversimplifying mental illness.

  8. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Another Melk-Man? :)

  9. Bronx Jeers November 2nd, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    “You get depressed about a girl (or a guy named Greinke)…you move on.”

    Corrected!

  10. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Pat:

    Touche.

  11. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    I’d rather have Melkman as a non-tender than a pile of scrap like Winn (at 1-2 million) + Hoffman + Huffman + Weber + Golson + Curtis)

    Melky’s more proven and equipped to be a 4th OF than any of those characters.

  12. pat November 2nd, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    “It?s just a mood.”

    Speaking of over simplifyi……..when chemical imbalances are involved, it’s more than a mood.

  13. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Chip,

    Your Wells, AJ, etc. trade is one of your more interesting proposals. Bravo.

  14. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:08 pm
    I’d rather have Melkman as a non-tender than a pile of scrap like Winn (at 1-2 million) + Hoffman + Huffman + Weber + Golson + Curtis)

    Melky’s more proven and equipped to be a 4th OF than any of those characters.
    —————–

    Yes but the Yankees also believe that Melky was a bad influence on Cano and the two spent too much time partying at night.

  15. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Doreen,

    Greinke experiences mood problems. It’s really that simple. It’s not like he walks into a bar or party or any other social situation and just crashes to the floor in the fetal position and sucks his thumb.

  16. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Pat,

    Who’s to say what’s the right balance of neurotransmitters in the brain?

    I’m low in Serotonin in the winter.

    I bet most people are but there’s a classification for it “Seasonal Affective Disorder”.

  17. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Bronx Jeers November 2nd, 2010 at 3:07 pm
    “You get depressed about a girl (or a guy named Greinke)…you move on.”

    Corrected

    ********

    :lol:

    A girl named Sue.

    A guy named Greinke.

    What’s the difference?

    :lol:

  18. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    LGY -

    There are two young pitchers right now that I think will be tremendous in a few years: Morrow and Brett Anderson.

    If I could get one or both of them on this team I would be a happy camper. I think it’s viable that the Yankees could, with some creativity, not only get both but still have room for Cliff Lee in the rotation and wind up with a rotation of:

    CC, Lee, Hughes, Morrow, Anderson and dominate the AL for the next 5 years.

  19. Doreen November 2nd, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Bret -

    Again -

    You’re oversimplifyiing things and then overstating what others are saying.

    I find it disturbing that you would say with such a degree of certainty what exactly it is that Greinke experience(s)(ed) unless you have met him and spoken with him at length about his issues. Or be so presumptive as to say it’s as simple as him having moods.

    From what I’ve read, it seems his difficulties were anything but simple. Also, from what I’ve read, he’s been successful in dealing with the issues and that’s a marvelous thing.

    If he ever were to agree to being traded to the NY Yankees or Boston Red Sox or other teams outside his comfort zone, I would assume he felt confident enough in his ability to overcome, deal with, cope with, whatever terminology you’d want to use, his disorder, and hope that he would do well, as I’d hope anyone would do well after coming to NY.

    However, if I were a big market team like the Yankees or the Red Sox, Greinke would not be my first choice, and if he were, I’d be doing a lot of due diligence.

    Mental illness and mental disorders are not simple.

  20. 108 stitches November 2nd, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Cashman has said that the team will have 2 LH out of the bullpen in 2011. Marte won’t be back from rehab until possibly July so he can’t be counted on. Cashman will be looking for a LH to go with Boone Logan as another option.
    Steve Garrison (picked up in September from the Padres) is currently on the 40-man roster.

  21. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    Chip,

    Melkman has learned the hard way that he can’t make the rules in NY and do what he wants. He didn’t commit himself to the team he loves, and they axed him. They dumped him. They abandoned him.

    I think he’d show a bit more self-control this time around.

    Plus, since he loves the Yanks and Cano so much, we can get him for next to nothing. He’d probably pay to be a Yankee.

    He was with the Yanks from age 17 to 25 or 26.

    He’s probably dying to come back for a second chance.

    4th OF, couldn’t hurt, considering last years smorgasbord.

  22. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Doreen,

    I’ll put it this way. You won’t ever find Greinke in a mental hospital so he shouldn’t be portrayed that way.

  23. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Deal: Nova, Laird, Brackman and Romine to Oakland for Anderson and Breslow
    Deal: Swisher, Low Level Prospect, cash, and AJ to Toronto for Wells and Morrow
    Sign: Cliff Lee, Scott Downs, Eric Hinske

    Lineup:

    Jeter – SS
    Granderson – CF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Wells – RF
    Posada – DH
    Montero – C
    Gardner – LF

    Bench: Cervelli, Thames, Hinkse, Nunez

    Rotation
    CC
    Lee
    Hughes
    Morrow
    Anderson

    Pen:
    LHP: Downs, Logan, Breslow
    RHP: Mo, Joba, Robertson, Moseley/Aceves

  24. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    You can ignore the Eric Hinske part if you like, I just think he’s a tremendous bench guy.

  25. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    RiverAveBlues Hal wonders if the ?long layoff? had an impact on the Yankees. Says the team has ?areas of improvement that are necessary.”

    Ledger_Yankees Hal wants Jeter and Rivera back. But: “Having said that, we’re running a business here.”

  26. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Chip,

    What gives?

    Just the other day you said the team would be merely tweaked and not to expect an overhaul. You’ve added 3 starters to a 5 man rotation.

  27. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Bret,

    I do think the team will be merely tweaked – but that’s not nearly as fun to speculate on.

  28. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    ok.

    As for Nunez and Laird. I think they’re worth more backing up Jeter and Arod than they are in a trade. They’re nothing more than complimentary pieces. Cashman has plenty of those types of trade chips who can be traded without it impacting the major league team’s depth.

  29. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    RiverAveBlues ?We absolutely want [Jeter] back. We absolutely want Mo back..having said that, we?re running a business..a deal both sides are happy with.?

    RiverAveBlues Hal: ?There?s always the possibility that things could get messy.?

    Ledger_Yankees Hal on payroll: “I can safely say we’re going to stay at the same level.”

    RiverAveBlues ?We are looking at the free agent market as we do every year.? ?We certainly have money to spend and we?re going to look into it.”

  30. Doreen November 2nd, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Bret -

    So there’s no gray area for you? It’s either a bad mood or a mental institution?

    You do realize he also suffer(s)(ed) from depressed along with the social anxiety disorder? You do realize that it was bad enough for him to miss time from WORK – almost 2 years where he didn’t pitch?

    You are trivializing mental disorders, because you want the Yankees to trade for Zack Grienke.

    And I might point out that there are people here who don’t want that because his performance has gone down and not because he has social anxiety disorder. But if you’re the Yankees, you need to look at all angles of a player (or you should, and it seems Cashman has made a concerted effort to do so in the recent past) in order to decide if that player would be a good fit for NY, and if NY would be a good fit for the player.

  31. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    RiverAveBlues Michael Kay was infuriated by Chuck Greenberg?s comments. Violent, not apathetic. ?Inappropriate, ridiculous comments,? says Hal.

    RiverAveBlues Hal on Greenberg: ?Stupid comments…they were inappropriate…You need to apologize to our fans.?

  32. Doreen November 2nd, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    And I can’t recall anyone here saying the Greinze should be or would be or could be in a mental institution.

  33. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    What do I think really WILL happen:

    Sign: Cliff Lee
    Sign: Scott Downs
    Sign: Randy Choate
    Sign: Veteran for the bench

    maybe a trade here or there – but nothing earth shattering

    Lineup:
    Jeter – SS
    Granderson – CF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Swisher – RF
    Posada – DH/C
    Montero – DH/C
    Gardner – LF

    Bench: Thames, Cervelli, Nunez, XXX

    Rotation:
    CC, Lee, Hughes, Andy, AJ

    Pen:
    LHP: Logan, Downs, Choate
    RHP: Mo, Joba, Robertson, Nova

  34. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    RiverAveBlues Kay?s really pushing Hal Steinbrenner on Greenberg but Hal?s adhering to MLB party line. Not calling for a fine, etc.

    RiverAveBlues Balance of big free agents, big names and the kids, says Hal. That?s the obvious organizational philosophy.

    RiverAveBlues Hal: ?The fans need to know we?re not putting money in our pockets left and right…we put most or all of it back into? the team.

  35. CompassRosy November 2nd, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    East meets West in Surprise, AZ on Saturday ….

    http://tinyurl.com/33k2vxa

    should be fun to see the best of the best rising stars.

  36. blake November 2nd, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Chip,

    With that Toronto deal….I don’t think the minimal salary relief they would get would offset the fact that they would be getting older and worse with that deal….yes they are shedding Wells contract but they are adding an even worse one with AJ when you consider that Wells was pretty good last year and that AJ was one of the worst pitchers in the league.

  37. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Then again – if you asked me last year I wouldn’t have anticipated the Yankees making two major trades that winter either.

    As for Nunez and Laird – I think there’s a better than 70% chance Laird gets moved.

    The Yankees aren’t likely going into the season with both of them on the bench.

    I think they’ll bring back Thames but they will want one more veteran on the bench to go along with him. If you look back at the rosters over the last few years Cashman has never gone with a primarily young bench.

    I know that there have been interviews with Newman and Cashman where they’ve said that they kind of look at Laird as a Ben Zobrist type of guy who they hope they can use in all four corners and get him 400 abs during a season – but I think that may have been them playing him up and hoping to capitalize on his very strong 2010 campaign.

  38. blake November 2nd, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    If they are sticking with the same payroll then Jeter, Rivera, pettite, and Lee will be cutting it close…..wont be room.for.much else if all those are added.

  39. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    RiverAveBlues Hal says the Yanks are going to be a ?World Series-type team? in 2011. Shocking news, folks, shocking.

  40. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    blake November 2nd, 2010 at 3:32 pm
    Chip,

    With that Toronto deal….I don’t think the minimal salary relief they would get would offset the fact that they would be getting older and worse with that deal….yes they are shedding Wells contract but they are adding an even worse one with AJ when you consider that Wells was pretty good last year and that AJ was one of the worst pitchers in the league.
    ———————-

    Blake -

    You’re probably right my friend.

    I’ll have to give it some more thought – find a way to make it work.

  41. saucY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    i was in a mental hospital for social anxiety and depression years ago. and pitching for the yankees would not have been the best medicine at all… much different than a mood!

  42. the gay yankee fan November 2nd, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    You guys still want Jeter batting lead off?

  43. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I hope that’s the last we will see of Gaudin in a Yankee uniform.

  44. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Interesting comments from Hal about Jeter and Rivera. Especially in regard to Jeter.

  45. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    blake November 2nd, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    If they are sticking with the same payroll then Jeter, Rivera, pettite, and Lee will be cutting it close…..wont be room.for.much else if all those are added.
    ——————————

    I think they’ll go into this winter with the understanding that Jeter and Rivera don’t actually count as part of the payroll. They are just going to handle those as separate entities.

    Also next year there will be some serious salary relief with Swish, Jorge, Marte and Andy coming off the books.

  46. Carl November 2nd, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    Can we outright Mitre damn.

  47. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    LGY -

    Not really all that interesting.

    Hal’s not going to come out and say “we’re going to do whatever Mr. Jeter and his agent ask us to do.”

    My guess still remains that it will be around 4yrs $80 mil but a lot of that money will be deferred.

  48. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    “Interesting comments from Hal about Jeter and Rivera. Especially in regard to Jeter.”

    1 year plus an option!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

  49. Bret The Hitman November 2nd, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Doreen,

    Greinke’s performance has not gone down.

    His anxiety and depression have not impaired him to the point where he couldn’t win a CY award in major league baseball.

    So yes, I strongly feel his condition has been overanalyzed and his performance has been ignored. His career WHIP is right there with Verlander and Lee.

    So there is bias against Greinke’s makeup and an ignorance of his accomplishments.

    Not to mention, we have a philosophical difference when it comes to the psychiatry industry. I believe pills and drugs are pushed in most cases, and fancy diagnosis, overclassification of normal temporary conditions in the brain turn out massive profits for Big Pharma.

    But I’m a flaming liberal…so my skepticism of special interest groups will likely not change.

    Is there such thing as a Ritalin deficiency?

    How can that be so?

    Ritalin is a chemical that does not occur in nature as no human being is born with it, so how can we be deficient in it?

    So why treat a given set of symptoms with a chemical that is not part of our genetic heritage thereby ignoring the possible underlying natural imbalances that trigger those symptoms?

    You say man-made drugs, I say holistic, natural remedies.

    “Drugs can save lives” true but they can also cause more destruction than good. And why not search for causes? Why this obsession with diagnosis of symptoms?

    Seems after the fact.

  50. Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Repost:

    Chip:

    Cashman is looking for a new assistant, give him a ‘tweet’ to put your name in the hat. LOL ! FYI, Wells gets $ 23 in 2011 then it goes down to $ 21 each of the following three years. AJ @ $ 16.5 is how I came up with the $ 6.5 million dollar difference.

  51. gtags1 November 2nd, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Greinke left spring training for personal reasons in late February 2006.[3] It was later revealed that he was suffering from social anxiety disorder and depression.[4] He reported back to the Royals’ spring training facility in Surprise, Arizona, on April 17, where he underwent ongoing pitching sessions. He was placed on the 60-day disabled list due to psychological issues and took time away from baseball entirely until returning on a rehab assignment with Wichita.

    This is what was on Wikipedia about Greinke sounds a bit more than mood problems. After missing spring training he went on the DL for 2 months!

  52. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Carl November 2nd, 2010 at 3:41 pm
    Can we outright Mitre damn.

    *****************************
    I think it’s obvious that Mitre has something scandalous on either the Brothers Steinbrenner, Cashman or Girardi. ;)

  53. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    RiverAveBlues Hal: This past season was “very disappointing.” I dunno…Game 6 of the ALCS isn?t *that* terrible.

  54. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I don’t know Chip.

    This is the first time anyone with the Yankees has really even referred to the financial side of this Jeter stuff.

    It was always just this is where he belongs, etc.

    I think Hal is clearly saying the financial aspect of this is important and listening to him on the FAN right now he is making it VERY clear this is a business and he has obligations. Hal is putting his foot down a bit IMO.

  55. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Maybe Mitre is a FA?

  56. JD November 2nd, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    :Happy:

  57. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Hal also just said these negotiations could take longer than the fans want or something to that effect. He has to be objective, has obligations. Is running a business 3 or 4 times.

    Hal is basically saying this will be a real negotiation with Jeter. Or as real as you can get with a guy like Jeter.

  58. blake November 2nd, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Chip,

    That may be how.they will look at it…who knows. They will have 13 million coming off after next season (posada) that hopefully they wont have to replace….so that may I’ve them a little leeway.

  59. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    RiverAveBlues “I want to get a deal done that he’s happy with but also that I’m happy with.” – Hal on Jeter. They?re running a business, folks.

    Ledger_Yankees Bodog installs the Yankees as 4-1 faves to win the 2011 World Series. Defending champion Giants the 4th choice at 10-1.

    RiverAveBlues And now Francesa asked about Chuck Greenberg. This is seriously the exact same interview Michael Kay just conducted.

  60. Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Chip:

    A head explosion on your trade proposal ? ? ?

    AJ, Joba, Zambrano and Greinke on the same club, WOW ! ! Do they have a diving board on top of the Empire State Building ? Bye, bye Girardi ! LMAO ! !

  61. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:46 pm
    I don’t know Chip.

    This is the first time anyone with the Yankees has really even referred to the financial side of this Jeter stuff.

    It was always just this is where he belongs, etc.

    I think Hal is clearly saying the financial aspect of this is important and listening to him on the FAN right now he is making it VERY clear this is a business and he has obligations. Hal is putting his foot down a bit IMO.
    ————————

    Just remember – these are the same brothers who signed off on A-Rod’s deal.

    I don’t think that negotiations are going to be difficult with Jeter – certainly nothing like what we saw in Boston between Theo and Varitek.

  62. blake November 2nd, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Hal seems to be a lot like Cashman really….will spend money but doesn’t like the idea of being had..

  63. Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Hal was on ESPN / Kay a few minutes ago and now with Francesa talking about that and other stuff.

  64. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    RiverAveBlues Now onto Lee?s wife. Mike F. asks if there was any specific incident. ?Did anything happen that was a report or anything that went on??

    RiverAveBlues Hal on C. Lee?s wife: ?As far as I could tell, we could not find anything…does not mean nothing happened.?

  65. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    I like what Hal is saying, but we won’t know if he’s merely posturing until after the Jeter contract is completed.

  66. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    “We were about 92/93% in Legends Seats. We did very well there”

  67. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Vineyard-I know. I thought RAB’s tweet about it being the exact same interview was funny, so I posted it. :)

  68. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    RiverAveBlues ?We were all a little concerned with? September. They knew Yanks could just ?flick a switch? as they did against Twins.

    RiverAveBlues Hal again reiterates the long layoff in between ALDS and ALCS as a potential problem for the Yanks? sluggish LCS play. Maybe maybe.

  69. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    RiverAveBlues Hal thanks the fans and says they are ?committed … to building a championship-quality team.?

  70. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Blake -

    Very much so. And very unlike George and Hank (at least in the media).

    Again, I don’t expect Cashman or Hal to say “we’re obviously going to do whatever we need to to keep Derek here.” but I also expect Derek to show some give from his side.

    If Jeter walks in there and asks for a 4 year $120 mil and says take it or leave it, then I walk away.

    If the Yankees go in there and say here’s a 2 year $40 mil contract take it or leave it, then Jeter walks away.

    I think 4 years with a mutual option for a 5th year: AAV of $17-20 mil with 5 mil per year defered over the course of an additional 4 or 5 years is fair for both parties.

    Jeter gets paid not for the player he is but for what he has meant and continues to mean to the organization and the Yankees maintain payroll flexibility.

  71. West Coast Yankee Fan November 2nd, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Hal Comments:

    1. Very disappointed in 2009.

    2. Want Jeter and Mo back. But we are running a business we need both sides to be happy.

    3. Hank and I are responsible to our partners we need to do whats best.

    4. Greenberg – Inappropriate, ridiculous, angry. Called commissioner. Greenberg apologized he felt sincerely.

    5. Fans need to make up their mind whether apology was sincere. He told him he needed to apologize to the fans. He thought the apology was sincere.

    6. We have some money coming off payroll and have some money to spend. Will put it back in team. Would not talk specific budget.

    7. Regarding free agency and trades we will be active.

    8. We expect to be in the World Series every year.

    9. Thought Giants pitching was unbelievable.

    10. We were all concerned a bit how the Yankees performed in September. Pleased with Minnesota series.

    11. Regarding expensive Legend seats. They were at 92% occupancy. Will talk to fans and make price adjustments on sections if warranted, we look at all sections every year.

    12. To fans. Thanks for your support. You are the most loyal in the world. We are going to work hard in the off season to field a championship caliber team.

  72. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    1. Very disappointed in 2009.

    **********************
    That seems odd. lol

  73. Bronx Jeers November 2nd, 2010 at 4:02 pm

    Ritalin is a chemical that does not occur in nature as no human being is born with it, so how can we be deficient in it?

    ——————————————————————————————————

    It is often the metabolites from these drugs that do the work.

  74. mick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Congrats to the Giants. They were the best TEAM in baseball this year. Good pitching and timely hitting, not big numbers, will do it every time.

  75. Carl November 2nd, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    # Betsy November 2nd, 2010 at 8:13 am

    Carl, they did have injuries, but Cash had said that Phil was not going to be called up until September; bringing him up should have been the last resort. Cash should have gone out and gotten someone. Of course I’m not blaming his call up for the injuries…………not at all.

    GB, I agree – these kids are not being rushed generally speaking – but Joba and Phil were.

    Yankees started the most different starters in one season that year.

    They had no choice.

  76. Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Summary of Hal’s interviews with Kay and Francesa:

    ** Yes, we want Jeter and Mo back they are lifelong Yankees.
    ** Yes, we will be players in the free agent market.
    ** It is our goal to field a Championship Team next year and every year.
    ** Cashman has his preliminary marching orders (budget number)

    Other than that a bunch of nothing.

  77. Carl November 2nd, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    They also spent a record 218 million.

    Going out and getting someone was not an option.

  78. mick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Summary of Hal’s interviews with Kay and Francesa:

    ** Yes, we want Jeter and Mo back they are lifelong Yankees.
    ** Yes, we will be players in the free agent market.
    ** It is our goal to field a Championship Team next year and every year.
    ** Cashman has his preliminary marching orders (budget number)

    Other than that a bunch of nothing.
    ========================
    Which is why I don’t listen to these interviews.

  79. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Just as an aside – yesterday we were having a sabermetric’s debate:

    what statistical predictor could you look at that would show that a guy who stunk for the last five years (Edgar Renteria) would come through at the must opportune moments for his club this World Series?

  80. Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    Erin, cracking up ! Must be a typo ?

  81. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    “what statistical predictor could you look at that would show that a guy who stunk for the last five years (Edgar Renteria) would come through at the must opportune moments for his club this World Series?”

    Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

  82. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Carl -

    Phil wasn’t rushed.

    Joba and Ian Kennedy were.

    And Joba wasn’t so much rushed as he was developmentally stunted.

    The Yankees didn’t do him any favors by not giving him a chance to develop as a starter in the minors after his initial call up.

    I think what they should have done, and still could do if they were so inclined, is to let him spend a year or at least half a year, starting at AAA and then get him back in the rotation. Or just leave him pitching the 6th inning and turn him into Aaron Heilman – whatever floats their boat.

  83. Jason Voorhees November 2nd, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    Probably his WPA in past World Series’

  84. Jason Voorhees November 2nd, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    http://www.baseball-reference......hives/8956

  85. Jacques Strappe November 2nd, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    I found Texas CEO Chuck Greenberg’s comments on Yankees fans (and his subsequent apology for his comments) quite humorous. Apparently he’s never been to Fenway Park before.

    Tell you what Chuck. Our front office guys will relieve you of the cost of whatever it takes to sign Cliff Lee. Consider it a favor! Then we’ll call it even … NEXT October.

  86. mick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    what statistical predictor could you look at that would show that a guy who stunk for the last five years (Edgar Renteria) would come through at the must opportune moments for his club this World Series?”
    =================
    your gut.
    the guy has done it before, why pitch to him with 1st open and Rowand, who Lee owned all night on deck?
    blame the mgr.

  87. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Better question

    What non statistical predictor could you look at to show you Renteria would come through.

    I don’t think you really understand this discussion Chip. It is not statistics are the only thing that exists in baseball and they explain everything and anything.

  88. Jason Voorhees November 2nd, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Granted, WPA isn’t all that thorough of a stat. Just shows he’s had big hits in certain games in past World Series’.

  89. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    “Probably his WPA in past World Series’”

    Any stat that is 5 years old is virtually worthless.

  90. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    IPK wasn’t even really rushed – he was just poorly suited for the AL East.

  91. mick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Hey where’s Betty?

  92. West Coast Yankee Fan November 2nd, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    mick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    what statistical predictor could you look at that would show that a guy who stunk for the last five years (Edgar Renteria) would come through at the must opportune moments for his club this World Series?”
    =================
    your gut.
    the guy has done it before, why pitch to him with 1st open and Rowand, who Lee owned all night on deck?
    blame the mgr.

    ************

    I blame Cliff Lee for throwing a pitch down the middle on a 2-0 count.

  93. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    The sample size is too small to conclude that he couldn’t pitch here.

  94. mick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    What non statistical predictor?

    =====================

    Your baseball intuition. Or gut.

  95. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    he being IPK

  96. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    LGY -

    I do understand the discussion.

    I get that statistics are a good predictor in that they don’t lie; they don’t have a bias. And I don’t mind that.

    What I mind are the smug champions of statistics who do view them as the end all and be all and that gut instinct has no place in the game and those who use it are arcane.

  97. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    “Your baseball intuition. Or gut.”

    Which is hit or miss, but hardly a predictor.

  98. mick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    **

    I blame Cliff Lee for throwing a pitch down the middle on a 2-0 count.
    ==================
    Hey mistakes happen, it could have prevented by walking him.

  99. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    “What I mind are the smug champions of statistics who do view them as the end all and be all and that gut instinct has no place in the game and those who use it are arcane.”

    No true sabr person does that.

  100. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Rich -

    I’ve only ever seen one pitcher with his stuff pitch successfully in the AL east in the last decade – Mussina.

  101. Jason Voorhees November 2nd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    “Probably his WPA in past World Series’”

    Any stat that is 5 years old is virtually worthless.
    —————————————-

    Yes, hence the comment seconds before yours.

  102. Bob November 2nd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Sign Edgar ! The Rent is too damn high !

  103. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    “What I mind are the smug champions of statistics who do view them as the end all and be all and that gut instinct has no place in the game and those who use it are arcane.”

    ————————————–

    Who feels this way?

  104. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
    “What I mind are the smug champions of statistics who do view them as the end all and be all and that gut instinct has no place in the game and those who use it are arcane.”

    No true sabr person does that.
    —————

    Probably not, but they’re the ones who get the air time (Keith Law)

  105. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:22 pm

    LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 4:20 pm
    “What I mind are the smug champions of statistics who do view them as the end all and be all and that gut instinct has no place in the game and those who use it are arcane.”

    ————————————–

    Who feels this way?
    —————————

    Keith Law for one.

  106. Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Curt Young is the new PC of the BoSux. One less candidate to talk too.

  107. Patrick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Mussina in his prime had far better stuff than Kennedy…

  108. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Chip,

    I really don’t think Jeter is getting 4 years, let alone an option for a 5th.

    I always though 3 years is the max and lately I believe $54 million is the top.

    Basically from what Hal said today, I think the people who have ardently said there is no way Jeter is taking a pay cut are very off base, but we will have to wait and see.

    If I had to put a my estimate in right now, I am going with 3/50, but I reserve the right to edit that number over the next 5 days.

  109. LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Chip,

    I don’t really like Keith Law like you, but I am not sure he feels that way.

  110. Patrick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:27 pm

    Keith Law values scouts that aren’t “stat” guys. But gut instinct? That’s just silly…

  111. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:28 pm

    LGY -

    That’s a reasonable stance on Jeter.

    I think there will be a difference between the actual value of his contract and the average annual value though.

    For example, I could see a scenario where he gets a deal reported at 3 years $60 mil. That way Jeter claims victory for getting $20 mil a year. But the actual contract contains deferments so that the actual yearly impact to the Yankee budget is closer to 12 – 15 mil per year.

  112. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    LGY November 2nd, 2010 at 4:25 pm
    Chip,

    I don’t really like Keith Law like you, but I am not sure he feels that way.
    ——————

    It is certainly how he portrays himself.

    Then again he also thought that the Jays should have ordered Cito Gaston in the last month of the season to bench guys like John Buck in favor of getting JP Arencibia some work…which just shows why he works for ESPN and not for a team.

  113. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    The only thing that sabr people are really saying is that your decisions should be informed by as much data as possible. You can then choose to override with other considerations, but at least factor it in.

  114. West Coast Yankee Fan November 2nd, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    All year I thought Jeter would not get a pay cut. I don’t think that now.

  115. Patrick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Chip,

    I don’t know man, sounds like that would have been a good move if Gaston had done that. The Jays were going nowhere this year (especially by the time september rolled around), Buck is not going to be on the team after this year and Arencibia is the future. Why not play the young guys to give them a taste?

    Keith Law is a real smart guy. Yes he puts a lot of stock into advanced statistics but he also values “old school” scouting methods.

  116. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    I’m reading Hardball Times and they talk about what some of the biggest stories this winter will be in baseball – one of them is the Prince Fielder trade.

    They do say that they want to be careful before claiming that a trade will absolutely happen, because it may not.

    But I am having a tough time figuring out where Prince could go. The Brewers would need to trade him to a team that feels they can sign him long term (no team wants to be the Braves in the Mark Teixeira trade again).

    Yankees, Phillies, Mets, Angels are all set at 1b. Boston is too unless they want to move Youk to 3b. So that leaves the Dodgers and the Chicago teams.

    Dodgers don’t have the money to go that route and I can’t see the Brewers dealing Prince within the division so that leaves the White Sox as the only real destination for him.

    It’s a good fit – Chicago needs a 1b with Konerko done but what can they offer to the Brewers in return?

    So that’s my call – I think Prince Fielder goes to the White Sox but don’t know for what.

    Dark Horse – he goes to the Mets for Reyes and they then use Ike Davis to get a big time pitcher.

  117. Yankee Trader November 2nd, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    If it’s true that the 2010 opening day payroll, per Cots, was 213,359,389 and the Steinbrenners and partners want to hold the line on that payroll, then if you plan to go all out to sign Lee, you might expect the following:

    Jeter gets a backloaded deal.
    Rivera gets his usual money.
    May not be able to bring back Pettitte.
    May need to trade one of Swisher or Granderson.
    Will not go after another expensive lefty like Scott Downs.
    Laird, Nunez, maybe Montero become key components making up the bench.
    No other big name FA’s will be signed.

  118. stuart a November 2nd, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    so girardi’s gal gaudin was outrighted. why was girardi pitching this guy down the stretch?

    he stinks..

  119. Patrick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    Chip, how about Texas after they lose out on Lee :)

  120. stuart a November 2nd, 2010 at 4:43 pm

    the yanks if they sign lee will be it on big signings.

    vazquez made $11 mill last year, lee will get his money and about &7 mill more.

    jeter made $19 lst year and deserves a pay cut and so does mo at $15 mill. Mo is still great but his usage is way down and therfore he has less value.

    treat them fair but it works both ways… jeter is not worth $19 mill. not even close…….

  121. Patrick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    stuart a,

    You’re right he’s not worth it now but if he plays like he did in 2009 he sure is…

  122. blake November 2nd, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Y. Trader,

    Correct…..I think they could bring back Jeter, Rivera, and Pettite….sign Lee and still stay around last years payroll…but it will be very close.

  123. Chip November 2nd, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Patrick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:38 pm
    Chip,

    I don’t know man, sounds like that would have been a good move if Gaston had done that. The Jays were going nowhere this year (especially by the time september rolled around), Buck is not going to be on the team after this year and Arencibia is the future. Why not play the young guys to give them a taste?

    Keith Law is a real smart guy. Yes he puts a lot of stock into advanced statistics but he also values “old school” scouting methods.
    ————————————–

    Here’s the thing about his call on Gaston:

    1. Gaston was retiring at the end of the season with a hero’s sendoff
    2. Gaston wanted to reward the guys like Buck who had played hard for him all season

    So at that point Gaston has no reason to follow anything Anthopolus says. All Anthopolus would have done is risked Gaston saying no and facing no repecussions, thus publically castrating the GM, or he fires Gaston for not following his orders and alienates a fan base – over one month of JP Arencibia.

  124. Erin November 2nd, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    New Post- Hal Steinbrenner: Payroll staying “within the same level”

    :arrow:

  125. Rich in NJ November 2nd, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    Jeter’s 2008 season wasn’t that good either. That has to be factored in.

  126. Patrick November 2nd, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Chip,

    Good points but as GM AA still should have told Gaston what to do. Cito is a stand up guy, he wouldn’t hurt the franchise just to win a few meaningless games in September

  127. Doreen November 2nd, 2010 at 4:51 pm

    Bret -

    I had to step away – went to vote and go to the supermarket.

    I realize we have some philosophical differences regarding pharmaceuticals but we’re not as far apart as you might think, but this is not the place to go into specifics. I see drugs as a last resort and sometimes a necessary “evil,” not a panacea. I don’t see having to miss almost 2 years of work due to anxiety and depression as a normal temporary condition. I have personal experience with chronic depression (in my family) and I have suffered from temporary anxiety. I know the difference.

    Anyway, Greinke’s year was not a good one; his performance did go down from 2009 and even his 2008 was better, from a quick glance at the stats on Baseball-Reference.com. So, which is the real Greinke? 2009? Or 2010 and 2008, which were more ordinary? i think that’s the real reason nobody wants to trade Montero for him.

  128. Vineyard Yankee November 2nd, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    stuart a
    November 2nd, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    I believe that Meat -tray is Girardi’s gal, not Gaudin.

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