Yankees mourn Clyde King’s passing
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 03, 2010 
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The Yankees released a nice statement and obituary about former manager and general manager Clyde King. It seems like a nice way to wrap up the day on the blog.
The New York Yankees mourn the passing of Clyde King, who died at age 86 on Tuesday at Wayne Memorial Hospital in Goldsboro, N.C.
King was a member of the Yankees organization for the last 34 years, serving in a multitude of capacities, including pitching coach, manager, general manager and advisor since joining the organization as a scout in 1976.
“Clyde was a loyal and dedicated friend and advisor to my father, our family and the Yankees organization,” said Yankees Managing General Partner Hal Steinbrenner. “Although his baseball achievements were impressive and deserving, he also lived a rich and fulfilling life away from the game. Clyde was a man of great faith who cared deeply about his friends and family, and he served as a role model to so many of us who had the great opportunity to spend time with him. We mourn Clyde’s passing with his wonderful wife, Norma, and the entire King family.”
In 1978, ‘81, ‘82 and ‘88, King was a member of the Yankees coaching staff, including a stint as manager in 1982, when he went 29-33 (.468) while piloting the club over the final 62 games of the season. He also served as general manager from 1984-86, with the Yankees going 274-211 (.565) over the stretch. From 1989-2010, King served in a variety of scouting and advisory roles for the Yankees, often reporting directly to Principal Owner George M. Steinbrenner.
King, a North Carolina native and University of North Carolina alum, had a seven-year Major League career as a right-handed pitcher with Brooklyn (1944-45, ‘47-48 and ‘51-52) and Cincinnati (1953), going 32-25 with a 4.14 ERA in 496.0 innings pitched over 200 games, including 21 starts. His best season was in 1951, when he went 14-7 with a 4.15 ERA in 48 appearances (three starts), ranking fifth in the National League with a .667 winning percentage. King also managed parts of two seasons for San Francisco (1969-70) and Atlanta (1974-75), respectively.
King is survived by his wife of 64 years, Norma, their three daughters, eight grandchildren and one great-grandchild.
Visitation will take place on Thursday, November 4 at 6:30 p.m., at Seymour Funeral Home, located at 1300 Wayne Memorial Drive, Goldsboro, N.C. 27534. Funeral services will be held on Friday, November 5 at 2:00 p.m. at Madison Avenue Baptist Church at 300 S. Madison Avenue, Goldsboro, N.C. 27530. Burial will follow at Willow Dale Cemetery in Goldsboro.
In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to the following entities: Fellowship of Christian Athletes of Wayne County (c/o Will Collins, 109 Ellington Way, LaGrange, N.C. 28551); Madison Avenue Baptist Church (300 S. Madison Ave., Goldsboro, N.C. 27530-6152); Clyde and Norma King Baseball Scholarship of UNC-Chapel Hill (Attn: UNC Athletic Department, P.O. Box 2126, Chapel Hill, N.C. 27514).
Associated Press photo of King with Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle before the 1982 Old Timers Game at Yankee Stadium.
Wow. A really rough year for the Yankee family.
R.I.P, Clyde. (Great pic, Chad.)
“Would it be any different than giving him a personal services contract?”
———————————
Personally, I don’t see the logic behind giving him a personal services contract. But, with a personal services contract you are at least paying him to do something.
A buyout, you are paying him to do nothing.
I don’t think the Yankees should do either.
The Mick, The Rog, & Clyde…..Judging from the grins it must have been one great tale being spun…….
Pat, any bets on it being about, Mick, Clete and Billy getting bailed out of jail by Clyde after a night on the town during ST?
Roger supplied the Budweiser from his Gainesville distributorship.
GB…..What ever it was, it must have been funnier than all hell
I think the last thing the Yankees should do is have Jeter under contract or owe him any money beyond his age 39 season.
Too bad about Clyde King, I remember when he was the Manager of the San Francisco Giants in the late 60′s and early 70′s for a couple of years. I believe Willie Mays hit his 600th HR, Willie McCovey was NL – MVP and others on that team included Bobby Bonds, Gaylord Perry, Juan Marichal among others. Quite a group King got to manage.
Peace to him and his family.
Pat, you know that it had to be one of Mantle’s better stories. Every book and interview I’ve ever seen on Mantle showed him to be one of the great storytellers in baseball. Of course, he did have Stengel as a mentor.
GB…It does appear as though The Mick is holding court…..
I am a huge DJ fan.
I was a season ticket holder when he was a rookie, and I still am.
The Yanks won 5 WS championships during that time, and were a post-season fixture, in large part because of how great a shortstop he was.
But, the only thing that makes sense is to pay him on the basis of the player he will be next year, and the years after that. How many shortstops have been effective, as shortstops, after age 36? Honus Wagner? Luke Appling? Who else?
It isn’t like Derek hasn’t been paid for his huge contributions. He is an enormously wealthy man. His grandchildren and great-grandchildren will never have to work. The Yanks have no moral imperative to make him even richer.
The Yanks need him in 2011 and 2012. Here’s hoping they can work out a 2 or 3 year deal at a reasonable price, say $15M AAV on a 2 year deal, $12MM AAV on 3. They ought to be able to do that.
But if Derek thinks he should be paid more, let him go.
I hate to say that, but the team is more important than the individual player. Derek is great because the team won. If he insists on more, it will hurt the team.
I don’t think he will, because Jeter is great.
I gotta believe that it involved Martin and Stengel. Another part of that group that’s missing is Bobby Cox, who used to run with Mantle back in the days of the mid-60s. He’s got quite a few stories about Mantle and his jokes/tricks, usually played on Pepitone and Linz.
3 years, 36 million would be solid. It would really help the team and reflect fairness for Jeter’s performance. He’s 36 and they’d be paying him through age 39. His best friends of his Yankee youth will all be gone by then and he’ll be the last one standing from the dynasty.
“$12MM AAV on 3.”
I’m down with that. Can’t see Jeter taking almost a 10 mil paycut though.
So where is that “line in the sand” for both Jeter and the Yankees. The point at which each one says they won’t under any circumstances go any further? Where they would walk away.
Jeter ______years at $________ million per year. (no less than)
Yankees ______years at $________ million per year. (no more than)
Wave…..A few days ago SJ detailed quite well how he can see things working out between Derek and the club….Actually it very well might have been one of SJ’s finer contributions to the LoHud I’ve seen in the 4 years that I’ve been hanging out……There is some way of pulling up postings but I certainly do not possess that knowledge…….I think the Yanks keep Derek as the highest SS in the game over the 3 years ( 4th year option ) of the new deal….I think there can only be a loser in this situation for both parties if not conducted properly……
http://www.gettyimages.com/det.....ssociation
CC at the Nets game.
WCYF:
Walking away whether it is one side or the other would be the worst. Cashman, Jeter and Hal are reasonable men and should be able to get this done over a cup of coffee.
If it comes to stepping on a land mine then the finger pointing will start followed by the mud slinging etc. That would be so ridiculous it is not even funny.
I hope that Close isn’t like Borass.
Vineyard – but worse case scenario if they can’t get it done. When do they walk?
Carl:
Thanks for sharing.
They don’t walk, grown men need to suck it up and get it done. When you are at odds with a client do you walk or compromise ? Old saying, ‘quiting (walking out) is not an option’.
At the most maybe figure Jeter earns more than Posada and Mo so…16 million over 3 years.
16/year over 3 years.
“Can?t see Jeter taking almost a 10 mil paycut though.”
If he wants to leave the Yanks, which I do not think he will, he will have to take even a bigger cut like Damon.
•Brian (CT): Jim, I have Yankee fans who are telling me they have three pitching prospects better than Casey. Help me.
Jim Callis: I don’t think they have one. Dellin Betances and Andrew Brackman turned a corner this year, finally, but both those guys might be relievers and I wouldn’t take either over Kelly. I wouldn’t take Manny Banuelos over him either. Me saying this isn’t going to make a difference with Yankees fans, though. You’ll just have to move further north.
*******
Nice answer – he’s worse than Law.
Vineyard you chicken! Answer the questions! lol
# Stoneburner November 3rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm
I guess I should backtrack – my intention is not so much that I feel bad for the Mariners’ fan – my hope is that the Mariners’ fan somehow reads my post – and then rallies the rest of the fans – they storm the Mariners’ front office with pitchforks and demand GM Jack Zombie to answer for his baseball management crimes. Yes, I am still bitter about July and have a long memory.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry, Stoneburner ~
Ain’t happening. Not from this fan anyway. In 2009, everything Jack Z touched turned to gold – taking a team from 101 losses to 85 wins. Then, in 2010, most things turned to lead and it was back to 101 losses. The truth of his competence likely lies somewhere in between and I think I’ll give him a bit more time before breaking out the pitchforks
He’s made a great start on replenishing the farm system that Bavasi depleted. This was evidenced in 2010, in part, by 8 of the 9 Mariners’ affiliates making it to the post season – and 2 of them winning their respective championship. This past season, the M’s minor leaguers ranked #1 in homers, runs, slugging and on-base percentage. And, there’s a bevy of young arms getting primed and ready. Granted, they won’t all translate to the big league level, but you’ve got to start somewhere and the development seems to be moving in the right direction.
Patience is a virtue (and I’m nothing if not virtuous
As I mention here…
http://tinyurl.com/27peu83
I did. ‘You said when do they walk’.
My answer was @ Nov. 3, 2010 at 11:32 pm
If they need a swift kick in the ass in order to come to their senses I’m there. Let me know when. LOL ! !
Rosy:
Nice web page. You must be the ultimate Mariners Fan. That must be a tough one year in and year out. I admire you for sticking with them. A true fan.
Thanks, VY.
Yeah – we up here in the left corner are hearty stock
It appears once again that the LoHud turns into The Jerry Springer show as the clock nears midnight…..
A lot of people have said that the Yankees make a ton of money off Derek being Derek so that will be a premium added onto the contract.
The Yankees should not fully tack on that number to his contract. If Derek makes them X amount per year, they should not give him X amount added to whatever they want to pay him for his on field contributions.
That doesn’t make any sense from a business standpoint. If they do that or if that is the approach they take to these negotiations then the Yankees just become another endorsement deal for Derek, because he is getting paid for all the money he generates for the Yankees.
Derek is about a $6-7 million player on the open market after the season he just had. The Yankees should pay a premium on that number because he is Derek Jeter. That premium however should not be outrageously high.
Pat M. -
You are so right. It seems the childish behavior is getting worse by the day.
You are straight North of me about 840 miles or so give or take. You got some great diners in and around Seattle, and the seafood is pretty good too. Safeco sure beats the heck out of the old Kingdome.
It’s really ridiculous that adults feel the need to get so personally confrontational with each other on a message board devoted to sports.
This is supposed to be entertainment, people. It’s bad enough when people get crazy with each other on political boards, but at least that’s arguably serious stuff. This is people watching a game. To be exposing and attacking each other’s real-life identities is pathetic.
BIG AL…….The shame is, just the other night we had a real good dialog about the merits of signing Cliff Lee……..This nonsense just drives good baseball people away…….It’s a shame because some of the best of the LoHud postings have come at night……..
the immortal Casey Kelly — half myth/half man.
he’s beginning to remind me of that Bill Brasky character from SNL.
meh…sorry to be a burst Callis’ bubble, but he’s actually no great shakes.
Bravo, JMZ!!!!
I don’t see any untoward posts in this thread. All baseball.
4-6 years for Jeter would be ridiculous and add more dead weight that will hurt the team. It should be nothing more than 2 years unless the Yankees only care about the marketing/star power of players past their prime instead of winning Championships by spending money wisely
WCYF,
The last thread was ridiculous and you know it.
It was ridiculous – a trouble maker popped in and started accusing a good friend of mine of being Ruby Tuesday and he defended himself. There was lots of good baseball dialogue on Jeter all day. There is nothing that carried over to this thread which has been up for 2.5 hours.
Is Jeter married yet. I thought the wedding with Minka was going to be around this time. Anyone know?
It was supposed to be the first Friday in November. Not sure if that’s still operative.
My sister says it was an unfounded rumor and that aren’t even engaged. Now back to the contract lol.
VY ~
Ah, a Cali vineyard.
Safeco Field is indeed a palace compared to the old cement mushroom.
Still, I cried nostalgic tears on the day it was imploded … spent many a day from my teens on there (M’s, Seahawks, Sounders, concerts, home shows, auto shows, etc.)
What do they think of Pete Caroll so far?
Rosy:
Yes, a real live Cali Vineyard.
So did they turn the ‘mushroom’ into a landfill site after it fell ? Lots of money in landfills these days. I hear ya on the nostalgia things, they can be tough to handle especially when you are attached to them for a long time. So are you # 1 a Mariners Fan and # 2 a Yankees Fan ?
During another interview with 1050 ESPN Radio, Steinbrenner acknowledged that the negotiations with Jeter could get uncomfortable.
“There’s always the possibility that things could get messy,” Steinbrenner said. “Our fans are very emotional, and that’s what we love about them, but I’ve got to try to do my job on behalf of the partnership and everybody involved in the organization. Hank and I need to keep a level head and realize that we’re running a business here.”
– The Sporting News
Derek has just earned short of $190MM. He’s been paid well for his years, and doesn’t need to be ‘rewarded’ for the past. That said, he’ll probably make $20MM/year for 3 or 4 more years. That to me is more than sufficient, and probably double what any other SS is making, particularly one with similar stats.
What do they think of Pete Caroll so far?
~~~~~~~
WCYF ~
hmmm….
that high energy and great enthusiasm are relatively tame descriptors of his personality
But, the players seem to be buying in (and if they don’t they are gone – he’s not been shy about that). ‘t was a rough week down in Oaktown … Matt’s concussed and a couple other are now out for the season. This Sunday at Qwest vs. “the other Giants” could be kinda scary.
===========
So did they turn the ‘mushroom’ into a landfill site after it fell ? Lots of money in landfills these days. I hear ya on the nostalgia things, they can be tough to handle especially when you are attached to them for a long time. So are you # 1 a Mariners Fan and # 2 a Yankees Fan ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
VY ~
Nah, they turned the mushroom into Qwest Field.
About your other question …
Mariners #1 -always- the other, not so much. I just like to lurk and pop in on a couple of rival sites to see how the other half lives
Rosy:
Lurking around in the shadows ? My, my ! Too funny. Nothing wrong with popping in for a look see though, others here would say that is taboo. Too bad. I like the sound of that ‘lurk and pop’.
Should SJ shows up tomorrow morning, ask him to re-enact the flow and direction of the Derek Jeter / Hal & Cashman contract negotiations……..This is going to be more than just a star ballplayer seeking a new contract….Jeter will be part of the process in how the 2011 club is built………SJ nailed perfectly……ask SJ, it was an outstanding post by SJ
Pat M.
Do you remember when he wrote the Jeter “thing”?
SAS
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....nt-1613682
He says more after that.
Thanks, Carl. I had actually read it before, but forgot about it. Not so easy going back over a week and finding that.
Np
Carl,
What are you doing up so late?
Got home from class and slept for 8 hours. Ima be up all night.
It’s only 12:30 here in Vegas too.
What about you?
I thought you were in NY or around there. I am in AZ which is on Pacific time until the time changes next weekend. Then a 2 hr difference.
arrrgggggg the Jeter contract can’t get settled early enough for me…its a story everywhere…mlb network hot stove…xm radio…espn (which BTW after a year’s absense, now has a WS bit as part of the opening segment again)
please Yankees and Derek come to terms quickly!
upstate kate -
Good morning.
I don’t watch espn, so I wouldn’t have noticed, but – wow- like if you don’t show the Yankees winning hte WS, it didn’t happen????
How obvious.
I, too, hope Jeter’s contract gets done quickly. It’s very difficult to read through a lot of the negative stuff, and I don’t know if it’s just me, but it sure seems like some are hoping it does get messy.
I think is interesting how so many Yankee fans and posters on this site will kill Girardi for his overuse of “the binder” and how its perceived that all his decisions are by the book……..yet they will take this year same approach when discussing Jeter. He should be given market value and not a penny more etc…..whatever fangraphs says he’s worth is what he’s worth.
In reality, I just don’t think the Yankees are going to mind overpaying him a little anywhere near as much as some fans will. Their revenues are over 600 million a year and they have been overpaying everyone for a decade and have rolled right along. Now of course they are wanting to change that culture and I totally agree with that, but is the face of your franchise really the guy you want to take a hard stance with? I just don’t see it….they will compromise and uneventfully reach a deal because that’s what’s best for both sides.
As much as many want to make this out to be a negociation between the Yankees and Marco Scutero…..its just not and it wont be handled like it is…nor should it be.
RIP to a guy who was maybe the best combination anyone can be (Yankee and Tarheel).
good morning Doreen and Blake and anyone else lurking around
yeah, Jeet is special and you can’t discount how valuable he has been to the Yankees. I understand he is aging (so are we all) but it is not like there is an option waiting in the wings. I think he was playing hurt this year, and w/ so many others injured, just sucked it up.
upstate kate -
Jeter actually played more games this season than he has in the last, I think 4 or so. (I looked it up last night – and of course I can’t remember exact numbers this morning). I thnk he definitely would have been rested more if they had the option of doing so. I think he played hurt, as well, and I think, like with Andy, once you reach a certain age, it’s harder to do and the dings don’t heal as quickly and minor dings can turn major quickly.
Anyway, I’m trusting that both sides will be more mature than the public at large and this thing will get done without too much ado.
Blake, it isn’t just the Jeter situation. How many of the sabremetric freaks on here will scream about the old fashioned, outdated idiots that only follow the standard stats and how much more the King James Stats tell it all, but have hammered Girardi for using them from his notebook instead of going on sight and gut feeling?.
it is funny to me how Girardi gets hammered for using his notebook, and then Bochy, who appears to be the king of the match up, w/ a different line up every night, is praised
Kate, because Bochy’s team won and Girardi’s team didn’t. Girardi managed pretty much the same as he has for the last three years. The difference is that the 2008 and 2010 teams had much of the same issues…not so much the catastrophic injuries but, a lot of serious injuries that severly affected performance.
Gb,
You can’t have it both ways can you….the sabermetric crowd should theoretically love Girardi.
GB7 -
Severely affected performance, but were not bad enough to warrant the DL, so he had to play short-handed quite a bit, too.
Blake, you would think that they would erect a statue and build a cathedral and name it St. Girardi’s…the patron saint of sabremetrics.
Guys that think Jeter is accepting or even being offered a 30-50% salary cut because of 4 bad months of baseball are not being realistic.
Coming into June Jeet was on pace for another Jeterian year @ SS and the #1 player at his position in the AL and then he slumped badly over the next 3-4 months. He is however 1 season removed from 1 the 3 best seasons of his career and I for 1 would not be surprised if he bounces back to a typical Jeter season next year.
Doreen, that’s what hurt. They lost Rodriguez for almost 3 weeks and lost him because of continual rest breaks for another two. The lost Posada for nearly a month. They lost Pettitte for 2 months, Granderson for a month and the lost Swisher, Gardner and Teixeira for about a week. Had those guys played in half of the games they missed, NYYs win 100+ games. Not sure what that might have done to affect the post season…possibly nothing, but, they had guys playing that weren’t at full bore.
And for the people who continue to say “if he wasn’t Jeter, on the open market, yadda yadda,” on the open market Casey Close would be pointing to his entire history. Jeter would still be getting paid on past performance and his agent would still be pointing to last season as an aberration (and perhaps pointing out his client played through injury). He’d be point out that he accomplished everything he did in a high pressure division, for a high-pressure team and in the post-season. True, he may not get as much from another club as he’d get from the Yankees, but to think he’d even be in same breadth as any other shortstop out there today?
Face it, the guy’s got quite a resume.
Jeter IS Jeter.
However, I don’t pretend to know how this thing will work out as far as the precise terms go. I only hold to the idea that this is not your typical free agent situation and you can’t look at it like it is.
blake,
You think so? Going in I thought Girardi might be that type of manager, but I don’t think that has been the case. Girardi sacrifices more than a sabermetrically inclined person would. For the most part he uses his relievers in the standard better-guy-pitches-later-inning type of way (sabermetrician would rely on leverage). It’s hard to generalize the constant and varied criticism Girardi receives, but I think a lot of the binder jokes result from explanations where he sounds like he used a 3-4 AB sample as the basis for a decision. So I guess I look at like Girardi uses stats, but not necessarily in a sabermetric fashion.
GB7 -
Frankly, I don’t know why anyone would want to play/work for the NY Yankees. It is a no-win situation. (Well, the money IS good and if you make it there, as the song says, you can make it anywhere.
)
But aside from the money – unless you’re perfect here, you’re not good enough and they will find your flaws and beat you to death with them. Sure, if you’re doing well, you will be higher than high, but the lie in wait for the cracks to show, and then they attack. (Example: Jeter now)
Topics that are getting sickening are the Jeter negotiations, the Chamberlain to bullpen or rotation and whether the Yankees should waste money on Lee or give him whatever it takes. The other is the constant whining about Rodriguez’ contract. It’s fact, it’s history and it’s not going to be cancelled.
Gb,
I agree.
———
While its true that Jeter would likely get less on the open market than he will.from the Yankees…..im pretty confident he would get more than the 6 or 7 million per that some.have suggested here. Don’t think for one second that Boston wouldn’t love to stick it to the Yankees if the talks fell apart.
Everyone wants to knock Girardi for using a “binder” but anyone else notice Ron Gardenhire and his pitching coach using a laptop during the ALDS ???
Doreen, they can scream at me all they want if the Yankees would just pay me meal money. I could live pretty well on that.
upstate kate November 4th, 2010 at 7:14 am
please Yankees and Derek come to terms quickly!
******************************
My thoughts exactly.
tk -
Could that be because he is balancing stats with his gut somewhat?
No matter how you make your decisions, you’re never going to be right 100% of the time.
I had to laugh yesterday when I was listening to XM and Kevin Kennedy praising Bochy – that every decision he made in the WS was the right one (and it sure did look that way), but the part that cracked me up was when he said, even if they didn’t work out, every move was the right one.
You can say that after the fact, but that’s such a lie. If Huff fails to lay down a bunt properly and hts into a DP (not far-fetched since he’d NEVER put down a bunt before), and the Giants don’t score than inning, and everything else remains the same and Texas wins that game 1-0 to send it back to San Fran, do you REALLY think people are not going to say, “how could he have a guy who has never bunted before bunt?” Whether it was the right move or not, he would have been second-guessed to death.
There are exceptions, but generally speaking, but the success or failure of a manager’s decision (or, rather, the rightness or wrongness of it) depends on the execution of that decision by the players.
blake -
I brought that up yesterday (the Red Sox) and was told they have a shortstop already.
GB7 -
Yeah, one could probably live very nicely on Yankee meal money – and use some to buy ear plugs!!
with the wealth of information available, what manager doesn’t use a binder or lap top in some capacity?
and while I am disappointed that the Yankees didn’t make it to the WS, I am happy they made it as far as they did, especially when news of various inuries come out.
I didn’t know. Are Jeter and the Yankees in contract negotiations??
Tk,
I like Girardi. I was just trying to make a point that everything can’t be quantified through numbers. I think as Joe gains more experience then he with start to supplement the numbers with more observational data.
gb-
Good morning.
“Topics that are getting sickening are the Jeter negotiations, the Chamberlain to bullpen or rotation and whether the Yankees should waste money on Lee or give him whatever it takes. The other is the constant whining about Rodriguez’ contract. It’s fact, it’s history and it’s not going to be cancelled.”
This why I haven’t been around much.
The Jeter thing in particular.
Once you’ve Killed, beaten, pulverized, and atomized a dead horse….
The other problem FWIS is the identity theft. Not good. I’m thinking
moderation and an “ignore” feature is sorely needed.
Doreen November 4th, 2010 at 8:35 am
blake -
I brought that up yesterday (the Red Sox) and was told they have a shortstop already.
GB7 -
Yeah, one could probably live very nicely on Yankee meal money – and use some to buy ear plugs!!
———————————————————————————————————————-
Not so sure about the ear plugs. I think that they might wear out pretty fast.
Once you’ve Killed, beaten, pulverized, and atomized a dead horse
———————————————————————————————————————-
At least with this, you could get dog food. With the Jeter thing, all you get is a headache.
GB-
“At least with this, you could get dog food. With the Jeter thing, all you get is a headache.”
It’s more like a migraine.
Doreen,
Yeah, I definitely think he balances stats with his gut. Referencing stats or matchups is probably just an easy way for him to explain a decision without being technical or revealing too much information. At least I would hope he doesn’t make decisions based on the outcome of a handful of AB’s.
It’s aggravating isn’t how managers are judged on the outcome of their decision and not their reasoning. Renteria really bailed Bochy out after he gave away an out to bring up Burrell. You’re exactly right, the way players execute, and perform in general, dictates how a manager is perceived. Our society is all about instant results, so the media feeds us opinions based on that. Evaluating a manager from an outside perspective is very difficult, but if one is going to attempt it they should at least evaluate the decision making process and not the outcome.
upstate kate November 4th, 2010 at 8:37 am
with the wealth of information available, what manager doesn’t use a binder or lap top in some capacity?
and while I am disappointed that the Yankees didn’t make it to the WS, I am happy they made it as far as they did, especially when news of various inuries come out.
———————————————————————————————————————-
There are very few, if any, “gut” managers anymore. I think that even Scioscia is more of a book manager. Maddon is a book manager too. He might be a gimmick manager but his defensive setups show that he’s a book manager.
For the life of me I don’t understand at least 2 things :
1 Why people can’t be civil towards each other even when they disagree.
2 Why people don’t just skip over the posts they dislike instead of
engaging in confrontations and denigrating each other.
I Just don’t get it. This isn’t a battle zone.
one could reasonably ask why Burrell was even in that game as he did nothing that whole series but K…he isn’t even good defensively…but it all worked out, so it must have been the right move
MTU November 4th, 2010 at 8:40 am
The Jeter thing in particular.
*****************************
I completely understand. I never in a million years thought I’d say it, but I’m tired of talking about Derek Jeter.
I don’t care if Girardi’s a “book” manager or not, as long as there aren’t some pages missing. Probably the worst part of it is that there are so many “arm chair managers” on here that live and die by the numbers that they think that gives them all of the answers and makes them as smart as the managers and smarter than the “sight and guts” fans.
tk -
There were definitely moves Girardi made during the season that one could shake their heads and say, “what was he thinking there?” I’d say most managers have a few decisions like those. But to balance that are the times when even if a move didn’t work, you could understand where he was coming from.
Girardi’s “problem” lies in public relations – he either doesn’t like to or isn’t able to communicate his reasoning. I suspect it’s more the former than the latter. But I don’t necessarily think it’s because he doesn’t like being second guessed – he’s said on more than one occasion that he understands that that is part of what you get when you are a manager – but that he doesn’t like to give away his strategy. Some may find that silly or annoying or unsatisfactory, but, to use an overused phrase, “it is what it is.”
MTU November 4th, 2010 at 8:49 am
For the life of me I don’t understand at least 2 things :
1 Why people can’t be civil towards each other even when they disagree.
2 Why people don’t just skip over the posts they dislike instead of
engaging in confrontations and denigrating each other.
I Just don’t get it. This isn’t a battle zone
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This is just the dumbest post ever. You must be a loser troll.
oooops. Sorry, MTU. I was just practicing my nastiness and I mistakenly pasted your post on here.
GB-
I’m looking forward to Girardi reaching the next level as a Manager.
One where he consults the book but trusts his eyes/gut as much.
Two sides of the same coin. Numbers + common sense.
It shouldn’t be one or the other. Either/or IMO.
New Post: The big man seems to be doing just fine
What is known is that Derek Jeter is not hurtin’ for certain. Basic salary aside, nobody mentions what he’s earned in postseason winnings which he’s always received a full share regardless of how far the Yankees advanced in all but one year (2008) of his career.
The countless endorsements from athletic products and the TV commercials have been a tidy sum.
For most, if not all of his career, he’s been the highest paid of shortstops exceeded only by Alex before he became a Yankee in 2004 and switched to 3rd base.
He bought a home for his parents in Jersey. The home he’s about to vacate in the gated Avila community in Tampa will be given to his sister as he prepares to move in his mansion on Davis Islands, Tampa.
10 years/$189M (2001-10)
signed extension with Yankees 2/01 (avoided arbitration, $18.5M-$14.25M)
$16M signing bonus (paid in 16 $1M installments 1/30 & 6/30, 2001-08)
01:$11M, 02:$13M, 03:$14M, 04:$17M, 05:$18M, 06:$19M, 07-09:$20M/year, 10:$21M
no-trade clause
1 year/$10M (2000)
re-signed by Yankees 2/00 (avoided arbitration, $10.5M-$9.5M)
replaced tentative deal for 7 years/$118.5M (2000-06)
1 year/$5M (1999)
won arbitration with Yankees 2/99 ($5M-$3.2M)
1 year/$0.75M (1998)
renewed by Yankees 3/98
1 year/$0.55M (1997)
renewed by Yankees 3/97 (later given more than minimum renewal)
1 year/$0.13M (1996)
drafted 1992 (1-6)
$0.8M signing bonus (Kalamazoo Central High, Mich.)
agent: Casey Close
ML service: 14.043
MTU, I go back a long way (not as much as Randy, you and Maine of course), but other than Stengel, almost all of the old managers kept “books”, just not computerised. Notes on who hit what sort of pitch, what pitchers threw when. hitters and pitchers have done that forever. They just mixed in “that gut feeling” more than today.
Doreen November 4th, 2010 at 8:35 am
LOL! The Red Sox do have SS Mark Scutaro under contract who was 35 the 30th of Oct for one more year at around $5.5M, they would jump through hoops to sign Jeter if he were truly available. Does anyone remember how the RSox almost signed Bernie Williams? This would be a no brainer for them. They could easily trade Mark Scutaro as well to shore up another need as decent SS are hard to find.
Some teams never seem to have a good SS and it kills them almost every year. The killer B’s had Julio Lugo and a couple of routine plays he made errors that cost them a chance for a WS. Note he was signed later by the RSox because SS that can hit are just that hard to find. We know how that turned out.