Cubs could be interested in Kerry Wood
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 04, 2010 
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Given the way he finished the season, my guess is a lot of baseball teams will be interested in Kerry Wood this winter. One of them, might be the team is most associated with.
ESPNChicago has reported that the Cubs would be interested in bringing Wood back if they can fit him into their payroll (that does seem to be the trick, doesn’t it). Today, the Chicago Sun Times quoted Cubs general manager Jim Hendry saying he still has a strong relationship with the team’s former phenom.
“Everyone knows I have a wonderful relationship with Kerry, and that will be a life-lasting one,” Hendry said. “But to get into specifics now … would be foolish.”
One other name mentioned in that Sun Times article: None other than Nick Johnson, who could be a cheap option at first base if the Cubs medical team decides he’ll be healthy enough to play.
Wood made $10.5 mil last year & he’s not taking a pay cut…
This is yet another reason that they can’t give Jeter more than he’s worth. If they save $5m or $6m there, they can then allocate it (plus other funds) to Wood or some other valuable player.
don’t want Wood for the money he wants, there are a lot of K Wood out there cheaper, just have to find them
What I hope Jeter understands is that the Yankees have all the leverage, he has none. Whatever the Yankees offer is, it assuredly will be more than any other team will offer a shortstop who is going to be 37 years old two months into the season coming off a poor year.
Joe — Do you really believe Wood will get $10.5M next year? I say he’s lucky to get $7M. He was weak as a closer, though strong as a set-up man. That’s not a $10M player.
….. there are a lot of K Wood out there cheaper, just have to find them
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I’m not too sure about that.
It’s not like Wood grows on trees….
after seeing Ortiz getting a 2 mil raise for DHing….nothing would surprise me including Jeter getting a raise
# Bronx Jeers November 4th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
….. there are a lot of K Wood out there cheaper, just have to find them
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I’m not too sure about that.
It’s not like Wood grows on trees….
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beautiful
Ortiz had a 137 OPS+; Jeter’s was 90.
Picking up a $12.5m option for that production doesn’t equate to giving Jeter a raise.
Now, if Jeter wants a one year contract.
anyone thats thinking about signing N Johnson better be talking to him about a play for pay contract
Hal was very clear as to the message he was sending to Close and Jeter. He didn’t do those interviews for nothing and he absolutely was aware of what he was saying.
Nick, depending on his medicals, is the kind of player that could appeal to a small revenue team at a very low base with incentives.
If I were to sign N Johnson(which I wouldn’t), it would certainly be incentive based. Give the league minimum and he could make up the rest by performance.
I still wish Wood would come back, but I’m not expecting it…..
Rich in NJ November 4th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Ortiz had a 137 OPS+; Jeter’s was 90.
Picking up a $12.5m option for that production doesn’t equate to giving Jeter a raise.
Now, if Jeter wants a one year contract.
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Ortiz also took a hometown discount to stay in Boston when he signed this deal back in ’06.
That doesn’t seem to happen very much in New York.
I wouldn’t sign Nick either (although I like him a lot), but small revenue teams sometimes have few good choices that have some upside potential.
More and more I think incentive based contracts for certain players is a good thing. Actually all players might benefit, but obviously the base amounts would differ from player to player.
There have been many Jeter ideas about salary. In fact if Jeter took less with incentives, it wouldn’t be so terrible because he obviously plays big taxes on his income. The difference of a couple million dollars is far less than if you are I took such a percentage cut in income. I am making the assumption that none of us earn the kind of money Jeter does. No insults intended.
“That doesn’t seem to happen very much in New York.”
Too true. The NYY can afford to pay more, but they can’t afford to vastly overpay for multiple years of subpar production very often without some negative consequences down the line as long as the budget remains fixes, which appears to be the case.
You can’t have incentives in a contract though. Maybe in the next CBA, the only thing you can pay for is appearances/games played.
Nick Johnson I’d give a minimum deal to with 1 million dollar escalators for every 30 games played.
Cubs already have Carlos Marmol and Wood will want closer money.
The team has more leverage because the fans won’t fault ownership if they play hard ball with him coming off his down year. Sure we’d miss him if he left but I think many would feel relieved in a way.
Just think of how hungry fans were to sign CC or Tex or Moose or Damon or Giambi.
This team can win without Jeter and the fans know it.
“You can’t have incentives in a contract though.”
Even for games played?
Forget incentives or pay-to-play, sign Nick Johnson to one of these services contracts that everyone’s talking about these days.
The service he can provide is being the sick guy in the hospital that Jeter or Arod promises to hit a homer for.
“I’ll do my best to hit a dinger, Nick, if you do your best to get out of that hospital bed.”
Sorry, I posted before reading your second paragraph, jerkface.
“The service he can provide is being the sick guy in the hospital that Jeter or Arod promises to hit a homer for.”
Be careful about overpromising…
After it was announced that NJ had signed over the winter I purchased an autographed card of his without seeing it for a couple of bucks. When it arrived it had a crease in it. At first I wasn’t happy, now I see it as a foreshadow of things that were to come. He seems like a good guy and I wish him well.
wouldn’t want to see him leave just yet, I believe he’s has some left & he did hit over .300 last month of the season..
Nick in SF…Knickerbockers + 6.6 looking fine right now….
i just don’t get the whole glass johnson thing. the risk vs reward was so absurd.
something about Nick Johnson reminds me of Carl Pavano !
NJ reminds me of Grant Hil
Jeter can promise an extra intangible.
joeman-
Not quite-Jeter hit .276 during September thru the end of the regular season. Look at his stats in the 2 hole.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/p...../2010/7758
Prayers to the Anderson family and may Sparky RIP!
Nick in SF
How were the celebrations the other night? They looked pretty wild on TV.
No doubt Derek Jeter had a tough season, however he did manage to account for nearly 180 runs for the Yanks…..We might never know to what extent his injuries were in 2010, but it’s too early to write him off……
I thought the celebrations were actually a little tame the night they clinched — I flipped over a sourdough bowl of chowder and set it on fire.
It’s been a 3-day lovefest. Yesderday was one of the greatest days in SF history.
The problem is that Jeter is going to be a 37 year old shortstop – how can anyone logically assume that he will defy father time and improve substantively? One can guess and speculate and hope – but it wouldn’t be logical.
Kerry Wood is not going to Chicago to close and he’s not getting closer money to set up for a bad team. He can go to a good team to set up…a team that has a better chance to make the post season every year. That’s not the Cubs and not likely to be the Rangers. There are very few teams that are in the PS every year. Perhaps 4 teams.
Speaking on Nick johnson. I don’t know how many of you go to Spring Training but when you buy the program(used to cost 2 but now costs 5, darn inflation) anyway, you get a collectible card with the lineups and of course the game I go to is the one that comes with the Nick Johnson card. I was seriously upset when I found I had gotten his.
I know I should have been more upset that the game got rained out by the 3rd inning but the card was a huge letdown, just like the real nick johnson.
Nick in SF
It’s been a 3-day lovefest.
———————–
At first I thought you were talking about Woodstock, then realized you’re in SF. It’s all good though, as Charles Schulz was born in Santa Rosa.
Cubs already have a closer in Carlos Marmol.
Joaquin Benoit had an outstanding season for the Rays and is a FA. He was consistent the entire year and shut down every AL East opponent. Was this an aberration or the result of staying healthy?
GB7
How are you tonight? I would really like to see Kerry Wood stay with the Yankees. I’m glad they turned down his option, but hope they ink him to a new deal.
I think with Soriano leaving – Benoit will get his shot to close with Tampa.
Here’s a question for everyone:
Jeter probably is not worth what he is going to get in his next contract. According to Wallace Matthews at ESPN New York (recent article), he wants to own a baseball team.
So why not pay Jeter $10 million x 3 (his likely value) and give him equity in the Yankees to make up the rest?
Will the CBA allow it? Would it make sense? If allowed, could ARod renegotiate what’s left of his contract the same way?
Kerry is most likely to close for another team at a much higher salary than the Yankees are willing to pay him to be their 8th inning guy. I think Wood is gone.
That should have read died in Santa Rosa. A joke wasted. Please don’t flip me over and set me on fire.
Given Nick Johnson’s terrific OBA and his relatively cheap price, I can see why teams might want to sign him. It’s just not that big a risk.
Last year he was a complete bust, but that didn’t hurt the Yanks very much. Yes, they wasted $5.5 million relative to his (non)-performance. That wasn’t their biggest overpayment. Comparing salary to performance, Jeter’s overpayment was $12 million, Burnett’s was $11 million, and ARod’s was $18 million.
Also, the Yanks were easily able to replace Johnson with other DHs. They didn’t lose to Texas because they lacked a DH.
“So why not pay Jeter $10 million x 3 (his likely value) and give him equity in the Yankees to make up the rest?”
I believe it’s against MLB rules.
But there is nothing to make up. $10m a year is about what he is worth in pure baseball terms, perhaps less.
If I’m correct Benoit, Wheeler, Qualls, Choate, and Soriano are all FA’s.
When the bowl tastes better than the soup it contains? Well that’s just hard to accept.
Active players and managers can not be partial owners of a baseball team. Just like owners can no longer be managers.
Rich
In baseball terms, he is worth no more than $10 million, perhaps less, I agree. But all of the talk is for paying him for his value to the brand. What better way to make everyone whole than to give him equity for his “brand value?”
I”m curious to see whether the CBA allows it.
If Kerry stops and thinks for a minute about his legacy then he’ll resign with the Yanks. He’s made enough $ to last a lifetime butif he signs a 2yr deal here for $5mil + an option for 9mm if Mo retires in 2012 then he’ll get a ring with the Yanks and that is the gift that keeps giving.
Less $ upfront but bigger payday on the backend deal….he should be all over that and if I were his agent I’d have the balls to advise as such.
guys have no real idea as to Jeets worth because as a generational player Jeet is capable of anything the next 3 -4 yrs. he could hit .300+ til 40 with 900 hits and 500+ runs scored for us in the next 4yrs.
Put me down in the Jeter to 3B/ ARod DHing and Nunez the primary SS and #9 hitter in 2012 camp.
Gardy LF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Arod 3B
Tex 1B
Swish RF
Jorge DH
Montero C
Granderson CF
or flip flop Grandy and Gardy…either way that will lead the league next season
Thanks GB7.
Could a deal be structured for post-retirement while he is playing?
Similar to Mario Lemuiex of the Pens in hockey–Jeter means the same to the Yankees as Lemuiex does to the Pens, and got a player-owner stake in their restructuring in the mid-2000s.
I guess if baseball doesn’t allow it then it’s wishful thinking, but has it ever been tried?
Who was the last owner/manager? Connie Mack?
KPB November 4th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
GB7
How are you tonight? I would really like to see Kerry Wood stay with the Yankees. I’m glad they turned down his option, but hope they ink him to a new deal.
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Evening, KPB. Doing fine here. Thanks for asking. Hope all is well in your little fiefdom. Don’t let the serfs (kids) take over the castle.
.I too was hoping that the Yanks and K, Wood can work out a deal that’s good for both teams. I just can’t see him going to a bad team for the same money that NYY would probably pay. I think that the PS was a real kick for him. He’s not going to find another team that offers as many opportunities to be in the PS as the Yanks. he’ll need to decide what the priorities are. Close/set up for a bad team or set up in NY. Chances are that he’ll have quite a few shots to close for Rivera over the next couple of years and with incentives like games and games finished, he could boost his contract up.
Good evening KPB. Hope you are 100 persent now.
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GB,
Everyone on here wants Montero to be catcher next year. Is he truly ready for that role C/DH?
The Charles M. Schultz museum is in Santa Rosa, in fact, but I have never been; it tastes better than the soup it contains.
Hanley Ramirez made 1/2 of Jeter’s 2010 salary and Troy Tulowitski 1/4. Are there any other SS currently better than them?
Jeter helped the Yankees win ONE WS since he signed his last 10 year contract for 189 million.
Unless AJ does a complete turnaround, and Pettitte resigns, the teams chances of moving farther in the playoffs will depend on signing or trading for another #1 starting pitcher IMHO + resigning Rivera. Lee, Rivera, Pettitte and then Jeter would be my priorities in the FA market.
That’s my 2 cents and I’m sticking to it, until y’all convince me otherwise!
The last owner/manager in the ML was Ted Turner (for a day). He’s the reason the rule was put in.
PittsburghYankeeFan
I think $15m a year for three years more than compensates Jeter for everything.
When Ted Turner tried to manage the Braves as a temporary replacement for beleaguered incumbent Dave Bristol, he became a one-day non-wonder. Commissioner Bowie Kuhn and National League president Chub Feeney shot him down after one game, ruling that anyone who owned stock in a club could not manage it.
Turner, aka the Mouth of the South, responded typically. “They must have put that rule in yesterday,” he told The Washington Post the next day. “If I’m smart enough to save $11million to buy the team [from longtime owner Lou Perini in 1976], I ought to be smart enough to manage it.”
SAS, Montero could do a pretty decent job for a rookie. Certainly no worse than Cervelli did this year. All the talk is about Romine, but, Romine isn’t ready and he’s not any better than Montero is. A lot of passed balls and errors. Most of the errors are on catcher’s interference, but, he’s not better than Montero…at least not yet. And the bat will be good, but not Montero good. That’s one reason that I’ve been wanting these minor league kids to become more versatile.
SAS
Hello, how was the birthday party for the pup? I’m doing fine, tests came back good. So, we are changing my diet to see if that solves it.
Trader,
There are intangibles that Jeter brings to the Yankees on which a dollar value cannot placed. That is true of Rivera also. It is also a contract with the Yankees not KC in the best baseball mecca in this country maybe the world.
Baseball Prospectus to the rescue on this owner-player issue:
http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=10316
The rule was put in place after Rogers Hornsby had an ownership interest in the Cardinals that went sour after he left them. An interesting read. Here are the applicable rules from the CBA:
“4.(c) The Player represents that he does not, directly or indirectly, own stock or have any financial interest in the ownership or earnings of any Major League Club, except as hereinafter expressly set forth, and covenants that he will not hereafter, while connected with any Major League Club, acquire or hold any such stock or interest except in accordance with Major League Rule 20(e).”
But Rule 20(e) grants an exception:
“Rule 20(e). WITHIN CLUB. No manager or player on a Club shall, directly or indirectly, own stock or any other proprietary interest or have any financial interest in the Club by which the manager or player is employed except under an agreement approved by the Commissioner, which agreement shall provide for the immediate sale (and the terms there of) of such stock or other proprietary interest or financial interest in the event of the manager or player’s transfer (if a player or playing manager) to or joining another Club. A manager or player having any such interest in the Club by which the manager or player is employed shall be ineligible to play for or manage any other Club in that League while, in the opinion of the Commissioner, such interest is retained by or for the manager or player, directly or indirectly.”
So if the Commissioner approved this, it would work. In pure baseball terms for the league and its value, the Commissioner should approve it since the entire league benefits financially if Jeter remains a Yankee. However, the precedent set may or may not be a good one.
An interesting thought, and not as cut and dried as I would have imagined….
KPB,
The party for my brother in law and sister in law was lovely. The traffic going to and from the City Friday and Saturday nights was dreadful even if we got to see my grandson.
The pup had a quiet birthday. She celebrated like the lady she is….12 yr old
GB,
I still have questions as to whether Montero is ready to be the defensive catcher we need.
SAS-
I totally agree with you about Jeter. However if the Yankees want to get to the WS multiple times during his next contract, there will need to be some conciliation on Jeter’s part in order to surround him with the players needed to obtain that goal. The Yankees gave him a very generous contract thru his prime years in baseball at $189 million dollars.
If Montero makes the team out of spring training, keep him away from league leader in wild pitches, walks, and hit batsmen-the Pieman!
How much worse can Montero be defensively than Posada and Cervelli? Not much, I would think.
Trader, do you remember what uniform number Turner wore? He wanted to nickname Andy Messersmith “Channel” because they had the player names on the back of the jerseys because Andy wore #17 and Turner thought that would be great advertising for his Superstation WTBS, Channel 17.
http://www.baseballchronology......anages.asp
GB7- It looks like it was #27.
Personally, I feel that Jeter deserves to be paid for his services as a Yankee as well as his performance.
I honestly see Jeter having a much better season next season.
I think 4 years 16 mil is very fair for everybody.
SAS November 4th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
GB,
I still have questions as to whether Montero is ready to be the defensive catcher we need.
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I wouldn’t worry about Montero’s defense, SAS. The media and 90% of the fans have whined about Jeter and Posada’s defense for 15 years and they and the team haven’t suffered too much.
With Turner, they invoked Rule 20(e). However, player-ownership remains at the discretion of the Commissioner based on 20(e).
It’s a win-win-win for Jeter, the Yankees, and MLB. Again, give him $8-10 million x 3 with an ownership stake based on him remaining a Yankee for life.
An interesting thought….
Rich,
That’s my point. The Yankees need a catcher who is better than Cervelli and the Posada we have now.
GB,
That makes me feel more confident. Posada and Jeter have done just fine for the Yankees.
People on here feel that the Yankees should be champions every year. That just doesn’t happen as you and I know.
SAS
Glad you enjoyed the party and got to see everyone. What kind of dog is the “young” lady?
GB7
Thanks for the info. Besides Montero, what other youngsters do you think will head north with the club, if any?
I could be interested in him too…
I’m going to guess that Jeter settles for a 3 year contract at $55 million, and possibly has a 4th year club option based on incentives met during years 2 and 3.
I’m also going to guess that Rivera is the 1st Yankee to sign, followed by Jeter, Pettitte, and Lee.
That’s my guesswork for tonight!
With Miguel Olivo off of the boards and traded to Toronto, that ends the John Buck era in Canada. My guess is that Buck goes to Boston or Chicago to be the front line catcher for good money.
“I think $15m a year for three years more than compensates Jeter for everything.”
Don’t think he is interested in a 25% paycut.
KPB, my preferences as of today would be Brackman, Montero, Laird and Nunez. I’d think that only Nunez and Montero go north with Brackman and Laird to follow by the end of May.
My hope is that Montero plays a significant role for the Yankees, the sooner the better at catcher, and does for them what Buster Posey did his 1st year.
I also hope Laird makes the team and provides good defense at 3rd and the corner OF positions.
Also look to Nunez and Nova to play an important role next year.
Team needs young athletic players who can play solid defense at multiple positions.
GB7-
Could lefty Banuelos make the team in the bullpen, or will he be a better fit as a starter.
SAS, not just winning teams are expected, but Gold Glove/Silver Bat winners at every position with the runner ups on the bench and the 12 leading Cy Young candidates on the pitching staff. That will only happen with Scioscia managing, Bochy as bench coach, Francona as 1st base coach, Guillen at 3rd with Duncan as pitching coach, etc.
“Given all that we know and have read about this situation, it doesn’t appear as though there is an enormous advantage to living in tax-free Texas. While Lee would pay no state taxes for 81 games, he’d still pay other states’ income taxes for road games. The added endorsement opportunities in New York, then, could cover some, if not all, of the difference. And whatever is not covered will be by the New York checkbook.”
Trader, Banuelos is a couple of years away, but, he’s strictly starter material, though I can see his rookie year being in the bullpen. He’s got to add a little weight, though.
Depending on who NYYs sign this year, I can also see David Phelps heading north if there are pitching issues during ST.
SAS
I view every position as being a combination of offense/defense.
I think Montero’s offense will be so good that the net positive may well outweigh any defensive deficiency.
With Miguel Olivo off of the boards and traded to Toronto, that ends the John Buck era in Canada. My guess is that Buck goes to Boston or Chicago to be the front line catcher for good money.
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Toronto now has a hitting catcher for 2.5M in Olivo and a defensive one in Molina at 1.5M.
I read that Oliva has led the league in passed balls 4 out of the past 5 years.
Sorry Olivo not Oliva, his twin sister!
The most recent estimate I am aware of put the Yankees at $1.6 billion and this does not include their other assets like the YES Network.
If they gave Derek just 1% of that it translates to $16 million.
I don’t see why the Yankees would be motivated to give Derek an ownership stake.
“The Blue Jays have until midnight to decide whether to exercise Olivo’s 2.5MM option for 2011. The veteran is a Type B free agent, meaning that he could potentially net the Blue Jays a compensatory draft pick if they decline. Shi Davidi of The Canadian Press tweets that the Blue Jays could wind up with eight potential picks within the top 50 selections of this year’s draft. Toronto may get two picks for Scott Downs, two for Jason Frasor, and one each for John Buck, Kevin Gregg, and Olivo in addition to their own”.
Jeter:
Well let’s state a couple of facts here:
- Pure class, face of the Yankees
- Still can compete
- Coming off the worst season of his career
- Year before last was arguably his best
Opinions:
- Arod’s mistake contract has absolutely no bearing on negotiations (media speculation)
- Jeter can rebound and have a couple good seasons
- Deserves a little extra for well, just being Jeter and what he means to the team
- His awful year had a direct impact on the team, still looked up to highly
- His comment about being at the top of the batting order was not a demand
Any other team gives him 2/28 at most 3/32.
For what he means to the Yankees and what he has done will have impact on negotiations.
Good For Yankees Deal:
* 3/36 + option
Good For Jeter Deal:
* 5/54 + option
IMHO a very reasonable compromise of 3/46 + option should get it done, but I know DJ wants 5 years; he also wants to play forever and you can’t fault him for that.
It’s in the interest of both sides to get this deal done with quickly.
And even if the Steinbrenner’s were feeling very generous around Christmas to give Derek a stake, I doubt a minuscule % of the Yankees would satisfy Derek’s desire to own a team.
“Any other team gives him 2/28 at most 3/32.”
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I highly doubt any team in baseball other than the Yankees would consider giving Jeter a salary in the range of $14 million.
“I highly doubt any team in baseball other than the Yankees would consider giving Jeter a salary in the range of $14 million.”
LGY
It’s not unusual for the Yankees to pay more for someone they want or need.
Andy:
– Yankees believe he is going to retire this year.
I too think that we’ve seen the last of Pet in pinstripes, and I will miss him very much. I can hold on to hope that he does decide to come back.
That’s why the Yankees have all the leverage and Jeter has little. No other team is going to give him what the Yankees will offer.
Hal has made it clear in his interviews lately that the Yankees need the deal to be a fair one and not excessive. I think if Jeter were to push it – the Yankees would let him walk, sad as that would be.
LGY,
Any other team that signs jeter would get instant media attention and advertising revenue and increases brand. Look at the business side of things a bit.. he’s worth 2/28 for a team that needs that, and a lot of teams do.
A team option, or it’s a bad deal.
“Any other team that signs jeter would get instant media attention and advertising revenue and increases brand. ”
Not if his 90 OPS+ and below average defense are indicative of what he is going forward.
Jeter has no leverage? Who plays SS next year if they don’t resign him?
Holy crap. Tar is on the board. Nice to see that you haven’t been feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. Hope all is well with Mrs. Tar and the little Tars.
Thanks GB
The little Tar balls all fine. I take it you have Anthony trained to fetch your beer by now.
Any other team that signs jeter would get instant media attention and advertising revenue and increases brand
–
lmao
“Hey we just signed a 36 year old Derek Jeter”
*feels brand increasing*
“JJeter has no leverage? Who plays SS next year if they don’t resign him?”
With the assets the Yankees have in the farm system, I’m sure there are several interesting options.
Like who?
No, Tar. “Killer” doesn’t allow anybody to get close to the beer except him. I had to trick him and bury a stash out in the back yard. I figure that it’s safe out there. He’s too good to use the back yard. He prefers the front…where everyone walks.
“Like who?”
How do I know who’s available? The point is that the Yankees have abundant asests.
And even if it means taking a step back at SS in 2011, it’s better than overpaying for a player who may already be in a steep decline.
Yeah…sign me up for Uribe or a Scutero trade.
I doubt pettitte retires especially if we get lee.
Getting lee will give us a great chance to win the ws in 2011 & pettitte knows it.
He said that he want’s to make sure the tank is empty & as long as he feels ok he want’s to take the ball every 5th day.
He had no shoulder or elbow problems,just back,groin,etc…
He also said that he doesn’t wan’t to have any regrets if he retires to early.
He will be home with his family for a few months,feeling good & his wife will be begging him to go play & make 12 million dollars wich he can’t make anywhere else.
The only way i see him retiring is if he has a major injury & does not wan’t to rehab it or has a very bad year or two.
“Any other team that signs jeter would get instant media attention and advertising revenue and increases brand”
From a .270 hitting SS with declining defense, no power or speed, who should be batting 9th?
Boy, just imagine the revenue that the team who signs Werth will get!
Assets — That’s no solution for who plays short if Jeter bounces. He has leverage that’s all I’m saying.
“Any other team that signs jeter would get instant media attention and advertising revenue and increases brand”
Sigh….
“Assets — That’s no solution for who plays short if Jeter bounces. He has leverage that’s all I’m saying.”
No solution? It’s the solution that is employed by virtually every team in MLB at one time or another.
Again, the reason his leverage is illusory is because the chances are better than even that he is already in a steep decline.
I think the Yankees would find a shortstop between their farm system or a trade, even if it were not the ideal player right away. IMO they are not going to be held up for another long-term contract of 5-6 years by an aging player whose skills are clearly diminishing.
Jeter will get more from the Yankees than any other team will offer him. What team would offer Jeter a three year deal at $15 million plus?
I don’t agree that Jeter has no leverage, but I think ownership has been thinking about this day for a long time.
“Hey we just signed a 36 year old Derek Jeter”
Are you trying to say there is not a market for Jeter?
I wonder how Buck and the people down (Up) in Baltimore would think about a 36yr old DJ?
Jeter isn’t going anywhere. He may not get the price he’s asking, but the Yankees aren’t going to chisel him for pennies, either. He’s close to the family, is a favorite of Mrs. Steinbrenner as well as GMS. They won’t allow him or Rivera to walk.
Pennies? If he won’t take $15m a year for three, he’s not worth having.
SAS
I agree, but I really wonder what plan “b” is?
Lost is here! wo hoo!
What’s up my man?
So the Yankees think Pettitte is gone?
That would explain why they offered Montero for Lee. They wanted to eliminate any chance whatsoever that another team could win him over. Without Pettitte in the picture, they couldn’t risk Lee going anywhere.
It’ll be an interesting off-season indeed.
Pettitte + Vazquez + Johnson + others come off the books + Jeter will get a paycut.
There’s lots of money to play with and plenty of talent out there!
If Jeter gets less than $17 mil per season plus incentives for 3 years and a 4th year option, I’d be surprised.
Then I hope you are.
So if he gets $16 million for 3 yrs that’s a deal breaker? What I don’t get is what’s the fuss over what one of the greatest yankees ever gets in his final contract. How does one or two or three extra million affect this team that makes ridiculous amounts of revenue? Years definitely an issue but money, what’s the difference what he makes?
And to say he has no leverage when the dude is a freaking legend and there are no other SS in the free agent market like him doesn’t make sense.
Derek will be a Yankee but……
I find it hard to believe the Yankees couldn’t find another a SS if he did leave or any other team would offer Derek a better deal than the biggest “insult” the Yankees would offer him.
Richie’s still upset with Jeter for not autographing his bare chest.
With the assets the Yankees have in the farm system, I’m sure there are several interesting options.
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How do I know who’s available? The point is that the Yankees have abundant asests.
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If you don’t know who’s down on the farm, then how do you know what their options are? If you mean by trade or FA signing, then I can see what you’re saying. However, I think Jeter will put in the work to improve next year. Is he coming close to the end, yes. Is it next year or in three, I don’t know. But, I wouldn’t write him off just yet.
Finding another shortstop wouldn’t be a problem. The quality and cost is something else. Nunez isn’t quite ready for a full time job and Pena certainly isn’t the answer.
“So if he gets $16 million for 3 yrs that’s a deal breaker? ”
For me, yes. For the owners, probably not.
But how long we can play the $1m or $2m game and still wind up with a contract that isn’t insane for a player that is entering his age 37 season with a bat that probably won’t enable him to play another position, and a glove (defense overall) that probably won’t enable him to play a passable SS for more than another year, maybe two?
The fuss is about facing the reality of what Jeter currently is.
It’s not like he hasn’t been extremely well compensated for a long time.
It’s not like it’s the NBA where one player’s contributions were the primary reason that championships were won. He won because he played with a lot of really good players. That’s baseball reality.
I think the gap between the man and the myth is just too wide iin some people’s minds.
And btw, a stupid contract will affect the team because they have a budget and they aren’t raising it.
Jeter, like Rivera, Posada and Pettitte will go when they know it’s time. They won’t stick around until the last dog is hung to leave.
“If you don’t know who’s down on the farm, then how do you know what their options are”
Not down on the farm. What SS are available.
Unless the Yankees were to get Reyes, they couldn’t begin to replace Jeter. I don’t think the Yankees make that trade with the ‘guys around the corner’.
Derek Jeter is the captain of the team. Unlike many of you I don’t think Jeter wants such a long term contract. I think he would be happy with a 3 yr deal. He can always re-up, but I think Derek wants to be a family man. I think he will sign a personal services contract with the Yankees after he retires. And, I think 3 yrs would about cover what he wants. JMO
“Richie’s still upset with Jeter for not autographing his bare chest.”
Stop projecting, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 years 56 million for Jeter.
That’s higher than Posada’s final contract at a similar age.
Jeter may have some leverage. There will be media backlash if the Yankees are perceived as playing hardball with him and he is likely their best option for 2011.
However, the Yankees have far more leverage. The Yankees will offer him far more than any other team. Probably double if not more than anyone else. If he got his 3,000 hit on another team and retired somewhere else his brand would be forever damaged.
Much of Derek Jeter’s brand is tied to him being a Yankee. He doesn’t have that 3,000 hit in pinstripes and retires somewhere else and his post playing career looks much bleaker and much less profitable.
This is a serious question. At what point during the season was Jeter a detriment to the team? He didn’t bat well this year. Yeah no doubt but they still won 95 games, scored the most runs, made the playoffs, came 2 games short of the world series. When was he so bad that you couldn’t put him on the field this year? When was he a major factor in them losing? Do you remember a fielding slump or him losing games because of his offensive slump.
Were there really those times when any of you thought that he was killing the team with his play? Like Burnett killed the team with his pitching, did Jeter really do that on the defensive and offensive side of the game?
Lets be honest with this situation with Jeter.
Posters like Jerkface have been criticized as being irrational when it comes to his performance this past season and going forward.
He is one of the few being rational.
My heart says Derek will bounce back. My head, not so much. It is not “rational” to say Derek will bounce back next season and if he does it won’t be substantial. Logic says he won’t, but my heart has served me better than my head before.
There won’t be media backlash if Jeter is perceived as being the one that is unreasonable. For example if he asks for 5 years at $20 million a year.
Yeah, Hank Aaron’s and Willie Mays’ brands were really severely damaged. Regardless of where Jeter plays, nothing is going to change his “brand”.
” At what point during the season was Jeter a detriment to the team? ”
July: .245 .310 .311 .621
August: 239 .318 .333 .651
Jeter doesn’t strike me as the type who would hang it up. He strikes me as the type who would think he could overcome even his own physical failings. Its why he plays through so much injury despite hurting the team doing it.
Posada got a contract coming off a .970 OPS season.
“When was he so bad that you couldn’t put him on the field this year? When was he a major factor in them losing? Do you remember a fielding slump or him losing games because of his offensive slump.”
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That is not the issue.
The issue is how can the money allocated toward Derek be best served to maximize the Yankees chances of winning.
No one here wants Derek gone, but there are limits, because my love for winning far exceeds how I feel about Jeter.
My personal limit is anything past 3 years. The annual salary figure I am not really sure. Definitely 20 million, but I don’t know where I would draw the line below that. I doubt Derek can stick at SS for longer than another 3 years and 3 is probably pushing it.
If he is under contract for 15+ million and can’t play SS anymore the Yankees are in big trouble.
Jeter produced about 10 runs or so less than his average season, in a “bad” year. The same bad years that 90% of the team had. It’s all about runs and eliminating runs. He still does his job. If this were a trend of three years, perhaps it’s a concern. It was one year.
Why do you all think Jeter wants to play 5 more years? Not for the money
“Yeah, Hank Aaron’s and Willie Mays’ brands were really severely damaged. Regardless of where Jeter plays, nothing is going to change his “brand”.”
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You can’t honestly believe that if Derek retires somewhere else his post playing days of his branding, marketing power, and earning potential won’t be adversely affected and significantly so.
Derek and the Yankees are tied at the hip. Derek Jeter is the Yankees. He damages that image at all and the way he is viewed changes substantially.
Derek Jeter being so closely tied with the Yankees is the whole reason the notion is out there to pay a 37 year old SS absurd money.
Rich in NJ
I’ll repost my question again. I took the two lines you posted and asked for clarification. Please answer it as a whole and not in part, because that still leaves me confused. For the record I don’t know who’d replace him yet.
# KPB November 4th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
With the assets the Yankees have in the farm system, I’m sure there are several interesting options.
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How do I know who’s available? The point is that the Yankees have abundant asests.
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If you don’t know who’s down on the farm, then how do you know what their options are? If you mean by trade or FA signing, then I can see what you’re saying. However, I think Jeter will put in the work to improve next year. Is he coming close to the end, yes. Is it next year or in three, I don’t know. But, I wouldn’t write him off just yet.
So he sucked for 2 months. They were in first place for the majority of both of those months. So those two months make the guy expendable? Or for his season overall where he hit .270, had a low OPS but still scored 110 or so runs, the guy is no longer a necessary component of this team? I just can’t believe that. Jeter is in integral part of this team. You can’t find the guys leadership, intangibles, professionalism, and competitive spirit in every player. That alone makes him invaluable to this team. You add his production and thats why he’s been a core member of this team for so long.
I don’t know if Jeter had any injuries this year or not, but, one might assume that he did. Nobody is likely to find out unless the teams spills their guts like they did on Rivera a couple of years ago. One thing that wasn’t hurting were his legs. If there were injuries, I’d suspect hands or elbows.
If you don’t know who’s down on the farm, then how do you know what their options are?”
Asked and answered.
“If you mean by trade or FA signing, then I can see what you’re saying. However, I think Jeter will put in the work to improve next year. Is he coming close to the end, yes. Is it next year or in three, I don’t know. But, I wouldn’t write him off just yet.”
Are you saying that his work hasn’t been sufficient prior to now? If not, why would any more work change anything?
If supporting a 3 year $15m a year contract is writing a player off, I’m at a loss.
Jeter’s ability to contribute on the field is not the issue. The issue is how many years and at what amount the new contract will be. There is a line which the Yankees will not cross, Hal has made that clear I think. They would perceive anything in excess of that to be detrimental to the team and the partners. The devil is in the details, no one knows what Jeter will ask and settle for – and what that line in the sand is for the Yankees.
Also, the business of baseball is a long ways from where it was when Aaron and Mays were at the end of their careers. It’s a very different time with very different dynamics at play in terms of the marketing dollars involved. Jeter knows his brand and the payoff will be much more valuable if he finishes his career in New York and not elsewhere.
Jeter scored 4 more runs and had 1 more RBI this year than in 2009, despite getting on base 42 less times. What is the common factor unrelated to Jeter in 2009/2010, could it be the prolific yankee offense which surrounds him??
Jeter had 739 plate appearances this season. That is his third most EVER. And he had his lowest batting average, lowest on base, and lowest slugging. Unless you believe that Jeter WILLED himself to score runs and RBIs (despite only OPSing .700 with RISP) I think you cannot honestly believe that the production Jeter had cannot be replaced.
You put Juan Uribe #1 in the yankee batting order he will score 100 runs.
“So he sucked for 2 months.”
So that, taken together with his season as a whole, and his 2008 season, persuasively argues that he should take a paycut.
“They were in first place for the majority of both of those months. So those two months make the guy expendable?”
Let me repeat: I’m in favor of a $45m contract over three years. Why isn’t that waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than enough in light of the foregoing?
Would rather get rid of him a year too soon than a year too late…
It seems to me that not only was the Yankee hitting bad in late Aug., Sept., but the pitching was nothing terrific. We still won 95 games. If Jeter didn’t hit at all, they probably would have won 93-95 games. Now this couldn’t go on all season, but all these guys were some form of ‘hurt’ and they played day in and day out.
Derek and the Yankees are tied at the hip. Derek Jeter is the Yankees. He damages that image at all and the way he is viewed changes substantially.
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Viewed by who? The media? who cares what they say or print? By narrow minded fans that boo the best players on the plantet because those players “let them down” so much that they were embarras sed? Who cares about them? I don’t. Jeter will always be Jeter, regardless of where he goes or what he does from here on out.
I don’t know if Jeter had any injuries this year or not, but, one might assume that he did.
–
For everyones sake I hope it was injury.
But the way some of you guys want to negotiate with Jeter, you want alienate from the start with hard stance of years and money. He’s not Johnny Damon, he’s the face of the franchise. You don’t give this man a take it or leave it contract.
And is there really that much worry over the Yankees $200 million+ payroll. Let’s be real they got stars all over the place. Just because they over pay Jeter won’t stop the team from getting better. Heck they have Cliff Lee in their cross hairs.
Another important factor is fan support. As much as Jeter is beloved, there is I believe a limit as to how much sympathy he would get given the economic situation in this country right now if he is perceived as being greedy and excessive in his demands. How many Yankee fans are unemployed or in danger of losing their homes. I would guess more than a few.
In 335 PA Post All Star Break Derek hit just 1 HR that left the park (also had one inside the park HR)
1 HR in 335 PA. That’s concerning.
“But the way some of you guys want to negotiate with Jeter, you want alienate from the start with hard stance of years and money. He’s not Johnny Damon, he’s the face of the franchise. You don’t give this man a take it or leave it contract.”
It’s a slippery slope from this post to “Jeter is bigger than the team.”
SAS, nothing personal, but do you follow the Mets at all? Serious question. This is the same guy who said something to the effect of that he can’t concentrate 100% on every pitch because there’s so many of them in a game.
God help the Yankees if Jose Reyes were to follow Jeter at SS. He is a brain-dead anti-Jeter.
Sorry to any Mets fans out there, don’t mean to insult your team. But your SS took longer to come back from a hammy than Aaron Boone took to return from open heart surgery.
West Coast Yankee Fan November 4th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
Another important factor is fan support. As much as Jeter is beloved, there is I believe a limit as to how much sympathy he would get given the economic situation in this country right now if he is perceived as being greedy and excessive in his demands. How many Yankee fans are unemployed or in danger of losing their homes. I would guess more than a few.
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:lmao:
“Viewed by who? The media? who cares what they say or print? By narrow minded fans that boo the best players on the plantet because those players “let them down” so much that they were embarras sed? Who cares about them? I don’t. Jeter will always be Jeter, regardless of where he goes or what he does from here on out.”
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I think you just proved my point.
Only a very small majority of fans would view Jeter the same. The very small majority are not the people who drive marketing dollars.
Derek Jeter in another uniform is much less attractive for an outside “investor”
The entire team scored 60 runs less than in 2009, but, Jeter pretty much stayed even. he must be doing something right.
GreenBeret7 November 4th, 2010 at 11:44 pm
Derek and the Yankees are tied at the hip. Derek Jeter is the Yankees. He damages that image at all and the way he is viewed changes substantially.
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Viewed by who? The media? who cares what they say or print? By narrow minded fans that boo the best players on the plantet because those players “let them down” so much that they were embarras sed? Who cares about them? I don’t. Jeter will always be Jeter, regardless of where he goes or what he does from here on out.
******************
Jeter will not always be Jeter if he plays four more years for Arizona or Detroit, a shell of his former self on the field. His brand and it’s value would suffer greatly. Will the Tag Heuer’s and Mercedes of the world want to pay him millions then?
I give a lot of you respect for your knowledge of baseball but there is a world of Yankee fans that just want to see him in pinstripes. To say he has no leverage and that he can be replaced when most fans, who lack the knowledge of the payroll and the contracts, just want to see him play out his career with the squad. That is his leverage the fans freaking love the guy plus he is still a solid solid player who is the leader of the team.
Rich
As far as putting in the work I was referring to specific exercises and drills like he did in the 2008 off season to improve for 2009. And the writing him off part was in reference to wanting to replace him now. 3 year at 15 mil a year I think is fair for both sides. My biggest question was you saying replace him with someone from the farm, then saying you didn’t know who was down there (I don’t either by the way) If I have misunderstood then I apologize, that’s why I was asking for clarification.
he must be doing something right.
–
Do you really believe that??? Consider this. Jeter scored more runs and got more RBIs vs teams with a lower winning percentage. He had 30 less games against losing teams and scored the same amount of runs and same amount of RBIs as he had vs .500+ teams.
No, you haven’t proved any point, if there was a point. Murcer and Pettitte are two of the most admired/loved Yankees in the last 50 years and I can’t see where their “brand” was damaged any.
KPB
No problem.
I Like Inge
I think your sentiments, although understandable on some level, overlook one thing.
Negotiations are a two way street. The onus to get a reasonable deal done is as much on Jeter as it is on the Yankees.
What is the consequence of “alienating” him? Having him take Marco Scutero money to go play for the Tigers or Nationals?
The Yankees will likely DOUBLE his market value. If that isin’t enough, then it makes him look selfish. If he chooses to the Cal Ripkin route, fans will be on the Yankees side, not his.
Well, somebody doing more against bad teams than good teams is what makes them bad teams, isn’t it? Hardly “Breaking News” worthy.
First of all, Jeter and the Yankees haven’t begun negotiations. They may well agree on what the other wants so all of this talk is premature. As GB said, Jeter stayed even despite his batting avg.
If you all want to worry about something, it should be Arod because he has what 7 more years to play at astronomical dollars. He is a whole year younger than Jeter. Worry about AJ because we can’t trade him. These are real problems, not a player who is yet to even say what he wants or what the team wants.
“No, you haven’t proved any point, if there was a point. Murcer and Pettitte are two of the most admired/loved Yankees in the last 50 years and I can’t see where their “brand” was damaged any.”
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Bobby Murcer who played his final 5 seasons as a Yankee and Andy Pettitte who will play at least his final 4 seasons in Pinstripes are comparisons to Jeter finishing his career with another team how????
You really believe that if Derek Jeter ended his career in a different uniform it would not adversely affect his marketing power? Really?
Brett Gardner was significantly better vs good teams.
“If you all want to worry about something, it should be Arod because he has what 7 more years to play at astronomical dollars”
In business terms, that’s a sunk cost. Regrettable, but what’s done is done.
Same with AJ, squared, cubed, or whatever to the millionth power is.
SAS November 4th, 2010 at 11:58 pm
If you all want to worry about something, it should be Arod because he has what 7 more years to play at astronomical dollars. He is a whole year younger than Jeter. Worry about AJ because we can’t trade him. These are real problems, not a player who is yet to even say what he wants or what the team wants.
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Absolutely!
Jeter will be 37 years old early next season.There are no more 3 year trends to look at with him.
He might have a good year next year but when most players get to his age their production drops.Injuries take longer to heal & an injury can really make his numbers look ugly.
He has been paid very well for many years.
It is time to take a cut in pay & still make 15 million on the field,more off the field.
A wfan poll had something like 57% of the voters saying jeter should not get a blank check.
People have to understand that a lot of people are struggling in this country & don’t have much sympathy for a player that made 190 million over the last 10 years on the field,much more off the field.
Don’t think that there will be a major backlash if hal plays hardball with jeter because jeter want’s 6 years or to much money,there won’t.
If jeter plays on any other team for his career he is lucky to make 60 % of what he made with the yankees.
The yankees always get held hostage because of their revenues.I can see overpaying him & a lot of other players but it is time to be reasonable & 3/45 million with maybe a few million for 3000 hits is more than fair.
“he must be doing something right.”
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Tex, Alex, and Cano all performed very well with runners on base. They all had .900+ OPS’s in those situations.
Gardner who hit in front of Jeter for most of the season had a .383 OBP and stole 47 bases.
Unless Jeter was willing those guys to do those things, I am not sure what he could be doing to affect when he was being driven home or control how often people got on base in front of him.
Jeter hit .237 with runners on and .271 with RISP this season. He hit .290 with the bases empty.
GB
Jeter’s brand is pretty firmly established at this point but the earning power and value of his brand is higher with the Yankees than it would be with other franchises partially because of the NY market place and proximity to Madison Avenue and partially because Derek’s affiliation with a franchise that is perceived as the most successful in sports.
Advertisers are buying the Yankee brand + the Jeter brand when they hire Derek.
“As GB said, Jeter stayed even despite his batting avg.”
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Given how the players performed in front of him and behind him, his runs scored and RBIs should not have stayed even.
Given the context surrounding him this season compared to 2009, he should have been substantially more productive.
His production slipped in a major fashion however his numbers are spun.
I don’t think we need to worry about the wealth of the Yankees’ ownership. They aren’t on my charity list this year.
AJ can be buried as a #5 starter. He is an insignificant part of the team. If he’s really bad, we can bury him in the pen or turn him into a reliever or something. His salary is a detriment, but his negative impact can be kept to a minimum.
If Jeter isin’t carrying his weight offensively, they have nowhere to go. When he no longer can play SS, there is nowhere to go. You can’t turn him into a bench player. Heck, they didn’t even have the stones to bat him 9th in favor of a guy who led the team in OBP and steals. From a PR standpoint, they have a giant headache on their hands when that day comes.
Really want to sign him till he’s 40? A .270 hitter with no speed, power, patience, or defense? That is when it hurts the payroll AND most importantly, winning. You can hide AJ, you can’t hide Jeter. Cannot go beyond 3 years.
“I don’t think we need to worry about the wealth of the Yankees’ ownership. They aren’t on my charity list this year.”
That’s irrelevant. They aren’t raising their budget. As such, in order to put the best possible team on the field, they need to stop overpaying players.
Rich,
That would be all players then. As I said Jeter and management may well agree. I think it is dreadful that this is all coming down on Jeter when we have no idea what he wants yet.
SAS
What is exactly coming down on him? He’s going to get overpaid no matter what. That’s a pretty sweet deal, no matter how one construes the facts.
SAS
In the time that you have watched baseball, who was your favorite player and why?
ron
November 5th, 2010 at 12:03 am
Excellent post.
pat, I wasn’t referring to what Jeter’s value is to another team or Madison Avenue. Other teams would only be buying Jeter’s production. He has limited value outside of NY as far as team marketing. Nothing short of bumping off the Steinbrenners will change the legacy that Jeter has established in NY, no matter where he goes. The only damage (and that would be short term), would be going to Boston.
In NY, he still earns the team money because he is Jeter. The Steinbrenners are well aware of his monetary value in NY. As I said before, Jeter is a family favorite and they aren’t going to chisel him. He’ll be overpaid on production just like he always has been and underpaid for his advertizing clout. It will always even out. He was never a $20 mil a year player on the field and he knows it. He certainly won’t be going forward. NYYs will treat him as they did Mantle. They will rent his name for his last few tears in baseball.
This video is posted on the RAB open thread.
Really funny.
http://video.adultswim.com/car.....f-vs-texas
A player, like any services or product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. What I would pay for something, someone else might think differently. Perfect example, I can’t go to games, so I buy cards. None of my friends and family do and think I’m crazy for what some cost. But, I enjoy it and to me it is worth it.
ron….You make some very good points, in fact possibly the best so far…..As for this 6 year demand, where did this come from ?? Heyman …..Derek will get 3 years, will remain the highest paid SS , with a 4th year team option…..Package could be around 50 mil…..
What is the factual support for the proposition that Jeter is underpaid for the income he provides to the Yankees?
I don’t think he affects attendance or ratings much. It all flows from winning. Merchandising is split among 30 teams.
Even if there is any significant value added, it’s all predicated on being productive.
His ability to produce at a high level is in serious question.
As a result, so should the amount he is paid going forward.
They had two players this year that were better than last year. Damon was more productive in 2009 than Gardner was in 2010 and Matsui was more productive than the the band of DHs paraded in this year. Granderson’s production picked up at the end, but overall, not that much more than Cabrera’s. The team scored 60 runs less, but, Jeter was almost equal. Tell me again how they held up their end while only Jeter drug them down.
The only merchandizing that is split is the merchandise that is carrying the Official MLB labels. anything else the team sells is not split.
KPB,
That’s a hard question to answer. It isn’t Mickey because I was less of fan and because he too was surrounded by other greats. Probably, Don Mattingly because he wasn’t surrounded by other greats. I also loved O’Neill for a myriad of reasons. I love Jeter.
Pitchers, probably Andy and Mo, and I almost forgot my best favorite Ron Guidry.
To me these guys personify what sports is all about. I know I left out Yogi, Murcer and others, but you asked who my favorite was. I can’t name just one though.
There have been so many wonderful Yankees to love, like and appreciate. I’m lucky to have seen so many in person.
Rich in NJ…….You’re a smart baseball guy and well respected here…That being said, how many times have you seen the Yanks on the road ???? Derek Jeter is as popular away from the Bronx as he is in The Bronx……..95 % of the Yankee games I see are when they are in their road greys…….He’s a draw at the gate…..Exception of course is Fenway….
So how much of the merchandise sales are attributable to Jeter? There must be some facts somewhere.
The Yankees still owe A-Rod $174 million dollars and that may go down as the worst contract in baseball history when it’s all said and done. They are not going to over extend themselves anymore.
The devil is in the details. If Jeter wants 3 years at $17 million fine. If he wants 6 years at $20 million – it’s not going to happen.
“Tell me again how they held up their end while only Jeter drug them down.”
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No one has asserted in any fashion that Jeter was the only issue with the offense this season. These conversations don’t have to go to extremes where arguments that don’t exist are put out there to try to discredit the other side of the coin.
Jeter was not the only one whose production slipped this season.
However, out of the 9 guys in the lineup Jeter was the worst by a significant margin.
Pat M
Even granting your point for the sake of argument, how much of a draw would Jeter be if he wasn’t wearing a NYY uniform, and if the team wasn’t so good?
But again, the $15m per for three year I suggested compensates him for any of this added income, irrespective of the amount or the source.
Even in Fenway they come out to boo Jeter, with begrudging respect.
4 years, 56 million bux for Jetes
I think the Yankees are a draw at the gate with or without Jeter.
Rich,
I disagree. If I got to go to a Yankee game, and I would love to; and Jeter wasn’t playing that game, I would feel cheated. So yes, it does matter whether Jeter is a Yankee or not.
Pat M,
How many less people on the road would come see the Yankees without Jeter? If Jeter was not on the team how much less of a draw are the Yankees?
Also, how does his draw in outside stadiums benefit the Yankees?
SAS
Don’t feel bad about leaving anybody out. You’re right, I asked who your favorite was. It’s tough to decide and besides, I was trying to lighten the conversation a bit. I know you said you liked the Reds, so it didn’t have to necessarily be a Yankee.
Here’s a proposal that Jeter could make that would take some guts.
He can tell the Yankees that he will accept a one year deal. Just pay him the same $21m he made in 2010 in 2011, plus some agreed upon percentage of any revenue generated from the 3000 hit plateau.
He can then show that his awful 2010 season was a fluke, and negotiate from strength after the season…or not.
SAS,
Would you not go to the game?
What if Jeter continues to decline? Would you still feel the same way if Jeter can’t play SS anymore?
SAS
Maybe, but the vast majority of people would still pay for the tickets, with or without him, as long as the team wins.
Tell Alex go be a team player and split his 32 million dollar salary with Jeter.
16 mil per.
Tell Alex go be a team player and split his 32 million dollar salary with Jeter.
16 mil per.
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One problem, the union wouldn’t allow it.
“Also, how does his draw in outside stadiums benefit the Yankees?”
It lessens revenue sharing dollars the Yankees pay out because of the revenue they generate from the increased ticket sales. Split gates were done away with for regular season games when revenue sharing was started.
So anyone that thinks Jeter is going to bounce back is not being rational?
I wouldn’t feel any different about Jeter moving from shortstop to left field than I did about Mantle moving from center field to 1st base. There are certain players that people go to see because of the name as much as the production. It explains why teams like NYYs always find a spot on the coaching staff for a legend. They still draw a crowd around them.
Rich,
It is not specifically Jeter, but when you go to a ballgame, you want to see your heroes.
I have gone to theater, and the lead was no there that day, and I was not pleased.
I have been around a long time and gotten to see a number of Yankees of different generations, if you will. But, going to a game has always been a treat. It is not something I did often so I wanted to see my guys regardless of year. I wanted to see Mickey Mantle, Hank Bauer, Skowron those guys. I never saw DiMaggio in person, but if I had been old enough, I would have wanted to see him.
I happened to be at Stottlemyre’s first game.
Betsy
Not necessarily.
Why would the Yankees move Jeter to LF though?
If he can’t play SS the only other logical place for him is as a utility player. He won’t produce enough to play a corner OF spot.
LGY….Derek Jeter is the most popular player in the game, and that has value to The NY Yankees aside from his on the field value…….I wonder if we’d be having this conversation if he didn’t have such an off year….Do remember, he was sensational just a year ago and won some very significant awards……..As for the media BS, it;s a good thing Joe Torre retired from the Dodgers otherwise we’d be hearing how he’d be coming to LA to play for him and be with Esquires Sexiest Women of the Year Minka Kelly…..
SAS
Whether it’s next year, or three years, or five or ten, every hero passes from the scene and new heroes take their place. That’s part of what makes sports great.
But you know what’s worse than not seeing your heroes? It’s watching heroes play as a shell of their former selves.
I saw Mantle and Mays play as a kid, but they weren’t the players of lore. They were aging shells of those players.
I hope the current core that made the Yankees great avoid that fate.
JPB,
I have always liked the Reds, but I haven’t followed that closely. Ted Kluzuki (sp) was my favorite Redleg as a little girl.
“It lessens revenue sharing dollars the Yankees pay out because of the revenue they generate from the increased ticket sales. Split gates were done away with for regular season games when revenue sharing was started.”
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How does it lessen the dollars they pay out?
From what I understand about the revenue sharing system, the only way I see it benefiting the Yankees is that a large portion goes into the % pot that is split between all clubs. But, I doubt Yankee fans out of market who only have the opportunity to see the Yankees when they visit their hometown are basing their decision on Derek Jeter. At least not in a significant fashion to affect the amount going into the central pool.
Rich,
I know what you are saying. I saw Mickey when he was still amazing.
I don’t expect this to go on forever; I just think some people are pulling that trigger too quickly. If you recall, I said I don’t think Jeter even wants a forever contract. He is no Arod. I think he wants his image in tact the way O’Neill did.
Of course the conversation would be different if Jeter continued his success. He didn’t. So now 2 out of the last 3 years he has been bad. 3 years is a long time.
Jeter was hurt in 2008……
So now he has been hurt 2 out of the last 3 years? Can’t see him having much improvement then.
See what I did there?
SAS
I think the far bigger danger is that the plug isn’t pulled quickly enough.
A-Rod got that contract entering his age 32 season coming off of an MVP season with something like a 176 OPS+.
Jeter is entering his age 37 season coming off of a 90 OPS+ season.
As bad as A-Rod’s contract is, I don’t think it’s a fair comparison to anyone.
I will personally be disgusted and outraged if the Yankees pay Jeter more than $15.75 million per year going forward.
But anything under that would be fine.
“Jeter was hurt in 2008…”
Some say he was hurt this season. The inability to maintain good health can be a part of a decline.
At age 35 and 36, Mantle wasn’t putting up Mantle numbers but he was still putting up close or better than MLB average. Had there been somebody besides him, the would have been better. In 1967 and 1968, the AL averages were .236 and .230. The NL was about 12-13 points higher. He blew the team averages out of the water.
Rich, getting hit in the wrist is just bad luck.,,,,,,,,
Betsy
How did the wrist affect his range at SS?
So, one off year signals a decline? Good thing that nobody told Pettitte about that this year. That should end all of the discussions about Utley being in the top two of 2nd basemen and hopefully ends all of the “trade for Kemp” nonsense after this season.
“At age 35 and 36, Mantle wasn’t putting up Mantle numbers but he was still putting up close or better than MLB average. Had there been somebody besides him, the would have been better. In 1967 and 1968, the AL averages were .236 and .230. The NL was about 12-13 points higher. He blew the team averages out of the water.”
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Jeter is not producing close to or better than MLB average right now, so I doubt he will 4 years from now and certainly not close to average for a corner OF.
Jeter’s OPS+ this year was 90.
Mantle’s OPS+ at 35 was 149 and at 36 was 142.
Rich,
At this point you are just picking on me. Cool it.
SAS
I haven’t heard of Kluszewski before, I looked him up and he seems impressive with some of his highlights. That’s part of why I like this blog, from time to time you learn something. Thanks for tonight’s lesson so far.
Arod is not just 32.
JPB,
Thanks.
KPB, Big Klu was built on the order of Mark McGwire. about 6’3″ and 240 and looked bigger and had to cut the sleeves off of his jersey at the shoulder because it bound up his arms. He was huge. He was the last huge ball player before Frank Howard.
“Arod is not just 32. ”
He was entering his age 32 season when he signed the contract.
So, one off year signals a decline? Good thing that nobody told Pettitte about that this year. That should end all of the discussions about Utley being in the top two of 2nd basemen and hopefully ends all of the “trade for Kemp” nonsense after this season.
—
Utley is 31 and Kemp is under 25. Utley actually does have a history of injury which is why I’d take Cano over him. And a pitcher that throws 200 average innings is valuable.
Not really comparable to the situation.
2008 Jeter gave us a look at Jeter without power. 2010 Jeter gave us a look at Jeter with no power AND a bad swing.
What wonders will 2011 Jeter treat us to?
Jeter’s drop in OPS is more than twice that of Utley’s 09 to 2010. And he still OPS’d .832 from second base!
GB7
Thanks for another look up. 6’8″, I don’t know, sounds kind of short for a ballplayer.
Who’s the biggest you’ve seen play?
KPB, the tallest was Randy Johnson, but, frank Howard was the biggest at 6’8″ and pushing 280-290 pounds…all muscle. absolutely a wall.
Some of the best/oddest pictures that I saw was Frank Howard standing at first base next to the runner, Albie Pearson, who was about 5’4″ and 145 pounds.
I don’t give a rat’s azs about your numbers. all I care about is run production from the offense, run prevention from the pitchers and defense and wins.
Well thank god you’re not the GM then.
goodnight GB, KPB et al
GB……pissing in the old buddy
WIND ….Pissing in the wind
GB7
I respect your opinion and have a question. I have a Mantle relic card I bought and I’m thinking about trading for a Pujols relic card. The mantle’s worth a little more, but I’m regretting trading the Pujols to the person about a year ago.(I miss having it and there’s only 35 of them) I haven’t decided yet and I haven’t contacted him yet and there’s a really good chance he’s not interested anyway. Do you think I should?
SAS
Goodnight.
PAT M.
The first one was more fun uncorrected.
GB, Sorry about the typo…
Derek Jeter has played 147 postseason games, which is virtually another season……..Think that over for a moment…….
The plan would be for Montero to catch roughly 100 games, said a source, with Posada and Francisco Cervelli sharing the rest of the duties. Austin Romine, the Yank’s other blue-chip catching prospect, would start at Triple-A, potentially taking over Cervelli’s spot by midseason if he shows he is ready.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z14Ol89Oag
Don’t know about all that. Sounds good to me though.
# Bret The Hitman November 5th, 2010 at 12:34 am
4 years, 56 million bux for Jetes
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3 years and that much
Another night of Jeter bashing I see. Ah yes, it would be much better to sign Juan Urine and have Hal and Hank stuff that extra cash in their pocket (because there is no guarantee that they wouldn’t do that) than to pay the guy who helped bring the franchise back and helped build that plush new stadium they now play in.
Let’s not forget who was perhaps the most responsible for that “yankee brand” being worth what it currently is and let’s also not forget that the same guy is still their best SS option next year.
Pay the man a reasonable contract that takes into account all he’s done (and all the money he’s made) for the organization and please do it soon so we can all move on from this.
For all the Jeter bashers out there, give names.
Who do you propose the Yankess have at SS next year.
Even if you discount the history and what the “brand ” brings to the team, the fact remains the Yankees need a SS. Derek Jeter is the best SS available.
Blake
The wife must have a Hokie smile this morning. I will be at Kenan in a couple of weeks.
I think part of the reason that many have such strong opinions on the Jeter negociations is because its assumed that it will affect how they spend money otherwise…..what if it wont? What if the budget for Jeter’s deal is independent of everything else? I don’t know that but with their revenues they are operating well below capacity even though they spend more than any other team.
Just asking that if lessening the Jeter contract just meant a 210 million dollar payroll instead of a 215-220 million dollar payroll and that was the only difference then would althat change anyones opinion?
Tar, yea she does. I was there last night actually
Dear Yankees and Derek:
Please come to terms ASAP. The media and blog chatter does neither of you any good. If you could do it for my birthday, I would really appreciate it.
thanks
Kate
hey, these letters sometimes work for Erica, so why not!
blake
Wow a great game to see. When they played “sandman” the stadium was rocking.
See ya later.
kate-love your letter.
I hope it works!
Kate-
I’m with you. The faster they get the Jeter thing settled the better.
Kate, Happy birthday!
Kate-
Yes. Happy Birthday. Mine’s tomorrow.
Tom
my birthday isn’t until the 22nd, I am giving them until then!
I just would like a quick resolution that satisfies everyone. Jeter is the face of the franchise, and this will probably be his last contract. I don’t want the Yankees to get a home town discount, that seems so red sox-ish.
MTU-in case I don’t “see” you around tomorrow-happy birthday
Anything special planned?
Kate, I see.
Then, um, have a very Happy Guy Fawkes Day?
Erin-
“Anything special planned?”
Stayin’ vertical and continuing to take in air.
Going out to White Pockets Sunday. I guess that’s plenty special enough.
Thanks for the well wishes.
MTU,
Happy birthday to you too!
Go out and get yourself an elk steak and a cold brew.
Thanks Tom.
I do like your idea. The brewski is an automatic.
It feels great to be on the verge of 21.
Now all my drinking will be perfectly legal.
yes, Happy Birthday in advance MTU
Swish’s mom is battling leukemia. Say a prayer for her if you are inclined to do that kind of thing.
Jeter, 4 years 56 million.
“Lost” made an appearance last night and said the Yankees think Andy Pettitte will retire.
Kate-
Thanks for thanks.
Now if we could just figure out a way to turn back Time.
Where’s H.G. Wells when you need him ?
Or perhaps Stephen Hawking has some thing to say on that.
I’m waiting for a call (from Hawking).
Is that in dog years, MTU?
MTU, as Jimmy Buffett sings (and how I live) “growing older, but not up” Happy birthday old man. Fair warning for you, BIG AL was stunned by what you’re going to be getting in the mail.
Wait my joke didn’t make sense. I retract that.
Sorry. Need. More. Coffee.
New Post: A day in the life
New thread
Tom-
It’s all good. I’ll interpolate. Appreciate the sentiments.
JCPD-
As long as it isn’t a mail bomb I’ll be looking forward to it.
That pic of “Dakota” went up on the wall yesterday.
Thanks in advance for whatever it is ( I think).
MTU, NO, it won’t blow you away. However, it may take your breath away
JCPD-
I don’t doubt you. I very much appreciate your efforts and friendship. I look forward to it then.
Any news on the job front ?
OH yeah MTU….. the interviews were a success. I start the new job on the 29th. My last day where I’m at will be the 21st. That allows me to go home to Jersey for Thanksgiving. I’m on cloud 9.
JCPD-
Wonderful news !
Congratulations.
Happy for you. I know you wanted it bad.
P.S. Welcome to cloud nine.
Out of all the Jeter talk, the man himself hasn’t said how many more years (he’d) like to play.
Like Mariano, he’s a proud man and would never finish his career looking like a shell of himself similar to how sad it was to see a broken down Willie Mays play in his last year.
As said before, he probably doesn’t need to play past the age of 39 nor does he need to. He knows there is life after baseball and would like to explore it. He knows he can always come back in a capacity of his choosing if he decides his baseball blood tells him to.
The upcoming contract will be $18-20M for 3 years which takes in past, present and remaining years as a player.
If Reggie Jackson can be an advisor / ambassador after only playing 5 years as a Yankee it can be well imagined what Derek Jeter can be for whatever he chooses.