The big man seems to be doing just fine
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 04, 2010 
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Last night, a bearded CC Sabathia had pretty good seats for the Nets game against the Bobcats. Sabathia had knee surgery on Monday, but obviously he’s able to get around. That seems to be a good sign for the Yankees.
I figured we’d start the day with a big picture of the Yankees ace and a few small notes from around baseball.
• Former Yankees reliever Steven Jackson was among five players outrighted by the Pirates yesterday. So was Brandon Moss.
• If you haven’t seen it, Buster Olney has some great World Series notes, including a look at that pivotal Game 5 pitch from Cliff Lee to Edgar Renteria.
• After his big year with the Red Sox, Adrian Beltre has opted for free agency.
• Add Chris Young to that list of Erik Bedard-type starters on the market. The Padres declined Young’s option after shoulder surgery left him limited the past two years.
• The Rangers declined an option on Vladimir Guerrero.
Associated Press photo
good to see the big guy getting around
I love ya CC, but lose the beard.
Erin -
I agree – that is one weird beard!
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No Vlad for the Rangers? Wow. I’m really kind of surprised. He had a good year for them, didn’t he?
Doreen and Erin,
Count me in on the beard must go side
Guererro was the main protection for Hamilton and as far as I’m concerned was as important to that offense as any body on the Texas team.
Doreen, I’m guessing the Rangers will try to sign Vlad for a more team friendly contract with maybe a few additional years.
MTU, I go back a long way (not as much as Randy, you and Maine of course), but other than Stengel, almost all of the old managers kept “books”, just not computerised. Notes on who hit what sort of pitch, what pitchers threw when. hitters and pitchers have done that forever. They just mixed in “that gut feeling” more than today.
Maybe the Rangers are clearing payroll for Lee in case they sign him. They can still talk to Vlad later on and negotiate a new contract.
“No Vlad for the Rangers? Wow. I’m really kind of surprised. He had a good year for them, didn’t he?”
Good half year. 20 homers, .919 OPS in the 1st half
9 homers, sub .750 OPS in the 2nd half
13-59 (.220) 0 homers, 16 K’s and 2 walks in the postseason
He was looking old down the stretch. He’ll be 36 on Opening Day. $9M might be a bit much for one so one dimensional, especially as that one dimension weakens.
JCPD -
Of course. That would be a possibility – much like we’re hoping the Yankees can work something out with Kerry Wood.
Why do guys feel the need to “rebel” once they leave the yankees/during the offseason and grow hideous things on their faces? Thats not a good look for you CC. lol
The carat-age in CC’s left ear distracted me from even noticing the beard on first look.
yeah Vlad in the OF was not a pretty sight
Makes you wonder if Texas might not be going after someone like Konerko to play first base or DH. They have Moreland, but, not sure he’s the answer.
Speaking of Texas, I’d like to see NYY go after David Murphy to play the 3 outfield spots and occas sional DH.
The most exertion that CC experiences this offseason may be his recruitment of Cliff Lee.
NYY626 – Andy in 2011 November 4th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Why do guys feel the need to ?rebel? once they leave the yankees/during the offseason and grow hideous things on their faces? Thats not a good look for you CC. lol
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they probably get sick of having to shave every day during the season, so they just let it grow during their time off.
GB-
Agreed.
pat -
He’s got some big ear-lobes.
pat-that’s funny, I didn’t even notice that, my eyes went straight to the beard.
Don’t have to like him but you do have to admire Theo.
He took a gamble on Beltre and it paid off; now he gets 2 draft picks for him when he signs somewhere else and Theo can go out and sign a Scott Downs for his pen or Carl Crawford and still have high draft picks come June.
Brian, for his part, tried to do the same thing with Javy Vazquez and it didn’t work out. But the principle is sound and I hope he keeps trying it.
Theo’s signing of Cameron didn’t work out so well. We’ll also see how the Beckett and Lackey signings look over time.
They showed CC during the Net game last night and the first thing I did was scan for crutches and smiled when I didn’t see any.
Erin – what does CC have to do all day? He’s off until Feb. Even if he spends a few hours a day working out ( which umm im not sure he does), he has plenty of time to shave lol. ( P.S. this topic is much more interesting than jeters contract situation)
“Speaking of Texas, I’d like to see NYY go after David Murphy to play the 3 outfield spots and occas sional DH”
If only he were right handed. Good ballplayer. If he batted righty, he’d be an ideal 4th OF for this team.
I could actually see Texas being more inclined to go after Beltre or Tejada than Konerko.
Michael Young’s not a particularly good defensive 3b, they could sign Beltre and move Young to 1b.
Given the war of words (and the impending battle over Cliff Lee) I don’t see the Yankees and Rangers agreeing to a swap anytime soon so I think we can probably count out David Murphy.
Chip
do you think Young would willingly move to 1B? they already moved him from SS, which he wasn’t happy about.
Epstein sure has an eye for picking starting pitchers and shortstops, too. Loved that Hermida coup that he pulled off.
NYY626-I know, you’d think he could pick up a razor.
and I agree 100% that this is much better than the Jeter contract discussion. I said in the last thread I never thought I’d get tired of talking about Derek Jeter. LOL
“He took a gamble on Beltre and it paid off;”
Probably as big a gamble for Beltre at it was for Epstein. Maybe bigger. He put all his eggs in one basket (his 2010 season) on the hope he could re-position himself to make the splash in free agency that he couldn’t make last year. Worked out for both sides, but I think Beltre will be the guy collecting the bigger payout overall.
MTU -
What are you agreeing to, that your old?
Beltre might be in line for an even bigger payday if he had a big playoff performance this year. Somehow that part of his calculus in signing with the RS didn’t quite work out.
Why would they go after Tejada if you think that Young isn’t a good 3rd baseman? Regardless of what people say about Beltre’s defense, he wasn’t especially good. He’s got a fielding percentage of under .960 career. You might not like fielding percentages, but, he’s making a lot of errors and not getting to that many balls. He’s all flash…just the thing that impresses some people.
GB-7 :
Good thought on Murphy but the present state of Rangers ownership are likely on the list of teams not interested in doing business with the Yankees. Assuming Lee comes to the Yankees, it will be the last straw.
As Jeter has said numerous times, Fenway is the worst field to play on, so IF errors there may be in part to poor field conditions.
upstate kate November 4th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Chip
do you think Young would willingly move to 1B? they already moved him from SS, which he wasn’t happy about.
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I don’t think he would be thrilled about it, but I think he would probably do it.
Where do people get the idea that the Yankees are left handed hitting heavy? They have 3 right handers, 3 left handers and 3 switch hitters in the regular line-up. What’s more, the majority of the system’s best hitters are right handed.
GB7 -
You’re right about Tejada. They probably wouldn’t consider him as a 3b option (though if Beltre leaves Boston would)
And whatever you may think about Beltre’s defense he is leaps and bounds ahead of Michael Young at the hot corner. And Young at first would almost certainly be better than Konerko at this stage in their respective careers.
To Brian, Jeter and Close,
“You got to be careful if you don’t know where you’re going, because you might not get there.”- Yogi Berra
GreenBeret7 November 4th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Where do people get the idea that the Yankees are left handed hitting heavy? They have 3 right handers, 3 left handers and 3 switch hitters in the regular line-up. What’s more, the majority of the system’s best hitters are right handed.
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The point people I think are making is that they’re left hand heavy in the OF.
If you have Murphy there’s no natural time to play him. It’s not like you’re going to say, “well we’re facing a tough lefty pitcher so maybe today’s a good day to give Gardner off and play Murphy.”
Having a right handed bench player – or even a switch hitter – then you do have natural times to play him if you want to give Gardner or Granderson a day off against a Jon Lester or David Price.
A guy as smart as Ryan or Greenberg isn’t going to let words get in the way of a trade to fill team needs. NYYs signing Lee won’t have anything to do with Texas/NYY trades. If they lose Lee, they need young, cheap pitching. NYYs have that in spades. They also have young catching.
I think even the nice Michael Young would have a tipping point. I thought he also moved to second base at one point, didn’t he? Was it 2nd to Short to Third, or Short to 2nd to 3rd? I just remember the guy being moved around a lot – and if I recall, he was not happy about the move to third, but did it anyway.
Who’s the 3rd righty? Jeter, A-Rod, ? The DH?
A couple of interesting fits for that role of 4th OF would be:
Andruw Jones as a FA or Lastings Milledge via trade
Ortiz has completely overvalued himself. He and his agent have no clue what aging DH’s are worth that can’t catch up to a high school fastball until June as evidenced for the past 2 years.
Reality will come crashing down on him but fans will still get to see him run to 1st base like it was the electric chair.
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....tra_bases/
“Where do people get the idea that the Yankees are left handed hitting heavy?”
As it relates to a guy like Murphy? Because they are in the outfield.
“If they lose Lee, they need young, cheap pitching”
If they lose Lee, they might need a new closer because Feliz to the rotation is how they would be leaning from what I read.
GreenBeret7 November 4th, 2010 at 9:40 am
A guy as smart as Ryan or Greenberg isn’t going to let words get in the way of a trade to fill team needs. NYYs signing Lee won’t have anything to do with Texas/NYY trades. If they lose Lee, they need young, cheap pitching. NYYs have that in spades. They also have young catching.
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But again, Murphy doesn’t really fit.
Al-
That too.
You know, I’m looking more closely at CC’s beard – and he does shave anyway. It looks like he shaves his neck. So it’s not just taking a vacation from shaving – it’s a vacation from being told he can’t have any facial hair.
“and if I recall, he was not happy about the move to third, but did it anyway.”
Unhappy enough to ask to be traded and finally agreeing to move without a bigger fight when the Rangers got no serious offers.
The Rangers are trying to re-sign Vlad for less than the 9 million dollar option.
Beware of Adrian Beltre.
Its not a coincidence his two best seasons came in year soon to be FA years. Never a good sign.
The Angels have made Crawford and Beltre their top off-season priorities.
I also think the Red Sox will continue to try and sign him because its looking less and less likely they will come to an agreement with Victor Martinez.
I don’t see the Rangers in on that action and Michael Young certainly isn’t interested in moving to first base.
They will stick with a cost controlled guy like Moreland at first and do the best they can to bring Lee back into the fold.
Mell November 4th, 2010 at 9:44 am
“Where do people get the idea that the Yankees are left handed hitting heavy?”
As it relates to a guy like Murphy? Because they are in the outfield.
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Mell’s exactly right – bringing in another left handed OF is a waste because while there is balance in the Yankee lineup – it’s the OF that is lefty heavy. So as I said, you’re not inclined to give Gardner or Granderson a day off against a tough lefty in favor of playing another left handed hitting OF.
If, on the other hand, you swing a deal with the Pirates for Milledge who hit .320 with a .926 OPS against Left Handed pitching – well then you have natural times to play him when you’re facing a Matuz, Price, Lester or Romero.
CC’s beard is shaped. That takes more work than clean shaving.
SJ -
Oh I personally wouldn’t touch Beltre with a 10 foot pole for just that reason. But I’m sure some team will give him a 2 or 3 year deal.
My guess is St. Louis.
Sox really have the potential to clean alot of slate this off season.
They have until midnight tonight to decide on picking up Ortiz’s option.
I was pitching this idea during the summer and I would still love to see a way for the Yankees to bring in Joel Hanrahan and Lastings Milledge.
Maybe something along the lines of Ivan Nova, Kevin Russo and a low level but high ceiling prospect for the two of them.
Pat -
I could, in theory, see them picking up Ortiz’s option, swinging a deal for a SS (Stephen Drew?) and moving Marco Scutaro to 3b and then targeting some relief help (Scott Downs)
The Yankees aren’t trading a valuable young starter like Nova for Lastings Milledge.
Crawdaddy November 4th, 2010 at 10:01 am
The Yankees aren’t trading a valuable young starter like Nova for Lastings Milledge.
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Why not?
If the Yankees sign Lee and Andy returns then there’s no spot in the rotation for Nova. And behind Nova the Yankees have Aceves and Moseley at the ML level, Noesi and Phelps at AAA and Brackman, Banuelos, and Betances behind them.
You always deal from a strength to address a weakness and, at present, the Yankees don’t have any options for a RH 4th OF, in addition Hanrahan is a tremendous late inning reliever.
there are few…very few good hitting, right handed #4 type hitting outfielders on the market….and if there were, Milledge and Andruw Jones wouldn’t be among them.
SJ-
Just curious, do the Yankees have comparables for Jeter’s salary? Any rough idea of what his value would be on the open market?
I certainly understand that there is certainly a premium for Jeter because he put’s people in the seats and generates revenue, but what’s his value based on stat’s and projected production?
Chip:
I think a guy like Nova, while nothing close to a trade centerpiece, could be a pretty important component in a trade that could bring the team back a lot more than a 4th outfielder.
GreenBeret7 November 4th, 2010 at 10:06 am
there are few…very few good hitting, right handed #4 type hitting outfielders on the market….and if there were, Milledge and Andruw Jones wouldn’t be among them.
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I’m sure I’m going to regret asking this: Why is Milledge a bad Right Handed hitting 4th OF? Other than the fact that I say he’s a good one and you are conditioned to dislike any opinion I have?
Based on his age and last year’s production, if a GM signed just that without knowing the name and what he might do going forward, Jeter might get 8 mil a year for 2 years. He has more value to the organization than he would to another team.
Mell -
It’s not just the 4th outfielder that I want in the trade, it’s Hanrahan too.
In 70 innings last year he pitched to a 3.62 ERA (which is pedestrian) but gave up 58 hits, 26 walks and struck out 100 batters.
That’s the kind of arm I want in the back of the pen.
And before we talk about “but the Yankees have Joba and Robertson in the back of the pen” I would just remind you (and others) that the Yankees did have to go and trade for Kerry Wood this year because of inconsitant performances from those two guys.
“Just curious, do the Yankees have comparables for Jeter’s salary? Any rough idea of what his value would be on the open market?”
2011 salaries:
Jimmy Rollins-8.5M club option
Jose Reyes-11M club option
Troy Tulowitski-5.5M
Hanley Ramirez-11M, rises to 15M 2012
The Rangers should put Feliz in the rotation whether they sign Lee or not.
Yankees Don’t Plan To Pursue Crawford, Werth
By Ben Nicholson-Smith
November 4 at 8:41am CST
The Yankees will try to sign Cliff Lee this offseason, but it doesn’t look like they’ll bid as aggressively on the top free agent bats. At this point, they don’t plan to pursue Jayson Werth and Carl Crawford, according to Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News.
Brett Gardner, Nick Swisher and Curtis Granderson give the Yankees a capable and relatively affordable outfield. Crawford and Werth will require tens of millions of dollars and multiyear commitments, so the Yankees are reluctant to enter the bidding for them.
“We are better with Crawford, but at that price?” a Yankees source asked Feinsand. “I’m not sure it’s that good of an upgrade.”
Of course we didn’t expect the Yankees to end up with Mark Teixeira two winters ago, but they swooped in with a last minute bid. The Bronx Bombers could get by without Crawford and Werth and it appears that they don’t intend to sign either outfielder, but let’s not rule them out completely until it’s official.
SJ44–Agreed. Beltre has to show he can play in years when his contract ISN’T expiring.
Regarding his fielding, he started poorly in Fenway this past season, but picked up his defense by June and played well the rest of the way. Perhaps it was getting used to the Fenway dirt.
Doesn’t a light go on when a 25 year old player with Milledge’s supposed talents has been traded for next to nothing, twice in 3 years? He’s headache wherever he’s been and an indifferent fielder. If he catches it, good, if he doesn’t, no big deal.
as far as you and your opinions go, I don’t think about either one way or the other. I just chuckle.
The Derek / Mariano contracts are not likely to get done within the next week or possibly after Thanksgiving.
Meantime, let’s get the coaching staff in place.
How did Palmiero win a Gold Glove in 1999 when he played 28 games at 1st?
Never able to figure that out.
Anybody?
Doreen November 4th, 2010 at 8:35 am
LOL! The Red Sox do have SS Mark Scutaro under contract who was 35 the 30th of Oct for one more year at around $5.5M, they would jump through hoops to sign Jeter if he were truly available. Does anyone remember how the RSox almost signed Bernie Williams? This would be a no brainer for them. They could easily trade Mark Scutaro as well to shore up another need as decent SS are hard to find.
Some teams never seem to have a good SS and it kills them almost every year. The killer B?s had Julio Lugo and a couple of routine plays he made errors that cost them a chance for a WS. Note he was signed later by the RSox because SS that can hit are just that hard to find. We know how that turned out.
When people talk about Jeters market value they are not citing his fangraphs value or what a nameless SS with his ability would make.
They are estimating what Derek Jeter would receive on the open market. There is an asumption built in that Derek would get slightly more than a Scutaro because of who he is and his resume and intagibles.
What is being proposed by many on here as what he should get or no problem if he does get is double if not more both the money and years Derek Jeter would receive on the open market.
Derek should get a premium for who he is. This amount should not be double though particularly in years.
Tk is spot on about Girardi. Many of the decisions he makes and the way he manages is unsab like
Since Golden glovers are chosen by Mgrs and coaches, maybe they didn’t all know he only played in 28 games, my only guess.
Maybe they should have checked.
“It’s not just the 4th outfielder that I want in the trade, it’s Hanrahan too.
In 70 innings last year he pitched to a 3.62 ERA (which is pedestrian) but gave up 58 hits, 26 walks and struck out 100 batters”
To me Hanrahan is an “okay, now show me twice” guy. Big year last season, but at 29 that was the 1st time he enjoyed anything close to MLB success. Relief pitching can be pretty fleeting. He’s just hitting arbitration (as is Milledge, by the way) and will begin to cost real money in 2011. Not sure trading a pretty solid, cost controlled, commodity in Nova for these guys makes all that much sense.
GreenBeret7 November 4th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Doesn’t a light go on when a 25 year old player with Milledge’s supposed talents has been traded for next to nothing, twice in 3 years? He’s headache wherever he’s been and an indifferent fielder. If he catches it, good, if he doesn’t, no big deal.
as far as you and your opinions go, I don’t think about either one way or the other. I just chuckle.
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He has been a pain in the neck, no doubt about it – but as you say, he’s just 25. I’m sure a lot of us were immature at 25. If you put him on the Yankees, where there’s a strong clubhouse atmosphere, I tend to think he would fall in line and do his job rather well.
As for his “indifference” as a fielder – it wasn’t too long ago people were saying the same things about Cano.
I’m not saying that Milledge would blossom into Robbie Cano, but at the very least as a fourth outfielder he would be useful both offensively and defensively (given that he can play all three spots) and given that he’s 25 and has all this talent, there’s always the chance it clicks for him and he becomes what the Mets thought he was going to be when they drafted him. Clearly he’s more talented than any of the other options the Yankees would have in that role right now.
“How did Palmiero win a Gold Glove in 1999 when he played 28 games at 1st?
Never able to figure that out.
Anybody?”
Because of the massively uninformed voting body responsible for naming Gold Glove winners.
SJ44 November 4th, 2010 at 9:48 am
I think if Texas loses Lee, they will sign Soriano to close & move Feliz to the rotation. IMO, that may end up being better for them.
LGY,
I just don’t see it becoming a huge ordeal….maybe im being naive, but its best for both sides to reach a resolution and to do so without making waves. As you say, Jeter will get a premium because of who he is and whatever the Yankees determine is acceptable for that premium is ok with me. Plus, I happen to believe the guy still has more left in the tank than he’s being given credit for…
Milledge has been given up by 2 of the worst teams in baseball. Teams going nowhere that could afford to see him grow up. They didn’t want him and Pittsburgh isn’t overly happy with him, either. Girardi and the players don’t have time to babysit for him. You keep him.
Mell -
I’m not entirely sure you’re right on Hanrahan.
He had a bad year in 2009 with Washington before being traded to the Pirates (where he turned his season around) but his 2008 season for the Nats was also pretty strong (93k 42bb in 85 IP)
I do agree, relief pitching is touch and go.
But then so too is young pitching in general – I just think best to cash in on Nova while his value is high.
Because of the massively uninformed voting body responsible for naming Gold Glove winners.
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I just wonder if he won it on reputation alone. Tino came in 5th for MVP in 99 and played just about every game at 1st.
You’d think the Commish’s office would have had something to say about that.
If he didnt play a game at 1st all season Palmieroo still might’ve won it. Amazing!
GreenBeret7 November 4th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Milledge has been given up by 2 of the worst teams in baseball. Teams going nowhere that could afford to see him grow up. They didn’t want him and Pittsburgh isn’t overly happy with him, either. Girardi and the players don’t have time to babysit for him. You keep him.
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The Mets, Nationals and Pirates don’t have the kind of leadership that the Yankees do.
I see the same thing written here about Matt Kemp as I’ve just read about Lastings Milledge – put him in the Yankees locker room and all his issues will disappear. He’ll be whipped into shape just by looking at Derek Jeter across the room.
Matt Kemp may be worth the risk, I don’ t know, but Milledge? He had an attitude problem the second his foot touched the field out of the Mets dugout, before he even had a hit or made a play. I don’t think that’s the kind of guy you want on your team.
And I think it’s a unnecessary distraction to have a player that requires that kind of attention.
Lgy,
Also, when I was discussing Girardi my point was that people tend to dislike the emotionless by the book way that he manages games…..but then they want the Yankees to handle the Jeter negociations in that same way. Its not emotionless no matter how much people want it to be. In the end, its their money.
The only question I have for folks is if for some reason the Yanks don’t sign Jeter, what will it cost the Yanks to replace him? And who woul it be?
Jeter is the key to the Yanks success the next 2 to 3 years. He is really needed!
Maybe Nunez will pan out as a starting SS in 3 years, but maybe he won’t. Then what? Finding key components cost money & talent, but for the Yankees it cost even more because that is what teams do to the Yankees because the Yankees want to win now always! A premium is therefore required when dealing in FA or trades.
That is why it is so impressive that the Yanks are loading up on premium positions. SP, C & even now drafting infielders mainly SS. These are the spots everyone needs most because they are rarities. Montero/Romine/Sanchez/Murphy & even Gil are special. The B’s at SP along with others are keys to solidifying the pitching staff.
Doreen
Well the difference between Kemp and Milledge is pretty significant. Kemp would also cost the Yankees a ton more because you’re talking about a potential superstar OF.
To me, Kemp is where Alex Rios was a couple of years ago with Toronto.
Milledge’s problems were brought on in no small part by the way the Mets handled him – they annointed him the next big thing before he ever set foot in a major league clubhouse – I think a few years of bouncing around and being relegated to the role of fourth outfielder may have humbled him a bit. But again, I don’t know the kid so I could be way off base.
In the end I think it’s probably moot – I don’t see the Pirates being inclined to trade him anyway.
I just think he’s a better fit for what the Yankees need then a David Murphy at this point – though no doubt, Murphy has the better attitude.
why Lastings Milledge ???? Don’t we have Laird and Melky Mesa coming up !
Chip -
I’m not saying I want Kemp.
Just pointing out how whenever a difficult personality is suggested as a player for the Yankees, it’s usually accompanied by the refrain that the leaders in the Yankee club house will whip them into shape, that they won’t be able to get away with the same attitude in NY, etc.
I personally think there are enough players out there who are not potential personality problems, and that the Yankees are not desperate, and they have the means to obtain those players and can stay away from taking a chance on the Lastings Milledges in the league.
It appears that the Yankees, at least lately, have tried very hard to change the club house culture. I can’t see them signing any of these problem players, such as Milledge, Milton Bradley, BJ Upton, even if they have a tremendous upside.
Kemp costs $7MM next year, can go to arbitration in 2012, and become a free agent in 2013.
The Yanks aren’t going to go after Matt Kemp. Speculate elsewhere.
Mike -
Melky Mesa has never played above A ball so it’s kind hard to project him and Laird is a 3b who may or may not be able to play the OF.
Milledge is at the very least a viable major league caliber outfielder.
No to Milledge.
I’d rather keep Nova and sign Melky for peanuts.
I’m sure Melky would surely play for peanuts…and other stuff.
Is that a picture of a skinny Rick Ross?
ok .. Thanks for the info Chip !.. I didn’t realize that info about Mesa I’m fine with Milledge.
WYH -
No one was speculating on Matt Kemp. I brought up his name as an example of a player who was brought up in the past and one who has supposedly had clubhouse issues that would be automatically fixed because of the power of the leadership in the Yankees clubhouse.
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