Dodgers protect Jamie Hoffmann from Rule 5 draft
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 07, 2010 
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After losing him to the Yankees in last year’s Rule 5 draft, the Dodgers have added outfielder Jamie Hoffmann to their 40-man roster this offseason.
Hoffmann was technically selected by the Nationals in last year’s Rule 5, but it was the Yankees pulling the strings and deciding who would be picked. Hoffmann was immediately traded to the Yankees as the player to be named later in the Brian Bruney trade.
With a little bit of power, a little bit of speed and a glove that plays in all three outfield spots, Hoffmann came into camp needing to beat Marcus Thames for a spot on the Yankees roster. Neither had a good spring and the Yankees went with Thames’ experience, which obviously turned out to be a good choice.
Hoffmann, though, had a nice year in Triple-A, and now he’ll get a chance to stick with the Dodgers and fight for a job with them this spring. Hoffmann’s a good guy — soft-spoken, goes about his business — so best of luck to him.
# blake November 7th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Here is the thing we don’t know when discussing this stuff…..how do we know.that if Arod’s contract was say 10 million less.per year that the budget wouldn’t just be 10 million less. The Yankees spend what they want to….not neccessarily what they are capable of. There are no guarantees that the budget would be 200 million if they were paying Alex less.
Yep!
Oh, man. I knew the Yankees should have kept that stud. Now we’ll all have to hear about the one that got away. They could have traded him for Matt Kemp.
Did we really need these last 2 blog posts?
Re-post:
Blake,
you are correct, the payroll would probably just be around 185-190M. But they would still have flexibility, so they wouldn’t ever be in another Beltran situation where they have to pass on a top 10 player they really wanted. The other thing is who knows what the other owners are going to try to do with the new CBA with Taxes.
Sorry JK. It’s a Sunday in early November. There’s not going to be a whole lot going on today. I’m more than happy to post information about Yankee-related charity work, and Hoffmann is a name people remember from spring training. Probably didn’t need these two posts, but I can’t imagine that there was any harm in adding them. Not every post is going to be massive breaking news or lengthy analysis.
Gb,
Yes! You’re on the Matt Kemp band wagon
Chad,
Don’t listen to those complainers. You do a spectacular job keeping us informed.
Most reports I’ve heard/read have the Yankee revenues at upwards of 650 million dollars……
What were they supposed to do with him, Matsui and sheffield?
—
Ah yes, ole .249 .321 .367 .688 Bernie Williams. yes they should have benched him. What do you think?? I thought money didn’t matter??
Beltran OPS’d .870+ in 4 out of 5 years, as a centerfielder with plus defense. Of course the yankees could have used him. Instead we went from Bernie to Melky.
And if Beltran isn’t an 18 mil a year player, Jeter sure as hell isn’t even a 15 mil a year player.
Blake, it might be closer to being on the lunch wagon. Kemp is starting to look like Carlos Lee.
long time reader here ….finally signed up
anyways, it kinda sucks for this kid…..i checked his numbers ad he has hit well…..i sucks that he’ s still in hte minors and being shipped form team to team
I agree Chad. This is normally a down time just after the World Series and little else going on in baseball. GM’s are in the early stages of making offers and seldom are big names signed before Thanksgiving and going forward to the winter meetings.
LOL Beltran wasn’t a 18M ballplayer with plus defense in CF and 30 30 ability, BUT DJ is worth 18-20M coming off <750 ops with below average D at age 37?
JK November 7th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Did we really need these last 2 blog posts?
*************************************
I just got done reading the last post about the shoes and I can honestly say, that yes, we needed that post.
Ah yes, ole .249 .321 .367 .688 Bernie Williams. yes they should have benched him. What do you think?? I thought money didn’t matter??
you’re a year late. Try keeping up for a change.
And Beltran was going to give the yankees a discount! The fact that george HAD to have RJ was annoying. Same with Vlad vs Sheffield, we could have had a younger HOFer with better defense at the time.
you’re a year late. Try keeping up for a change.
–
What are you even talking about? Beltran signed in the 04 offseason, so in 2005 it was his first year on the Mets. We got Randy Johnson after the collapse in 04. And Williams posted a .688 OPS in 05 when he would have been replaced by Beltran.
You need to keep up, and take those weak come backs to the old folks home where I suppose you may be able to win an argument.
Hey Carlos Lee could still hit until last year. MTU could take him on his conditioning hikes.with Joba.
In 6 years, Beltran has been a very good player for half of them. He hasn’t been able to stay on the field the last 2 years and his numbers in 2005 weren’t $6 mil better than Williams.
@Chad: Your posts are always valuable and always appreciated–especially on a Sunday in November. Many of us love reading about baseball, in all of its aspects, and appreciate your efforts to keep us both informed and entertained.
Regarding the YES Network. YES pays the Yankees an annual fee of $84 million dollars. That doesn’t include dividend payments.
jeters numbers in 2011 aren’t going to be 20 million better than Nunez. If the yankees are so cash flush they could have signed Beltran AND traded for RJ but they arent and they didn’t
Beltran would have helped the yankees tremendously and you have no idea what he would have put up as a Yankee in yankee stadium instead of Shea. Additionally, his value in 05 WOULD have helped because he plays way better defense than Bernie and the 05 yankees had one of the worst outfield defenses in the history of the game.
And then of course BEltran OPSing .870+ the next 4 years with a .500 SLG or better in each season would have helped. And you wouldn’t have him running into Cameron and so who knows how his injuries would have gone.
Not to mention Beltran offered NY a 20 mil discount, putting his AAV at 14 mil a year. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
That’s true, Blake, but, not exactly sure that was what the Astros had in mind when talking about getting somebody to cover left field. His hips and waist hung out over much of center field, too.
What are you even talking about?
—————–
mostly, a disgruntled and irrelevant soliloquy that is morose and idiotic in it’s content.
And you had no idea what Williams would put up. That $36 mil over the last two years would have been well spent, wouldn’t it? As far as Beltran being willing to give the Yankees “a discount”, he said that after the fact. He’s a Boras client. That wasn’t happening.
WCYF,
But those dividend payments are significant right…..I mean they own the network.
Bernie hadn’t hit above .264 in 2 years, was clearly fading, and could have been the 4th outfielder and spent ample time at DH. Cashman realized that CF was becoming trouble, which is why he had Kenny Lofton in 04 (despite Torre not playing him) and why he went after Beltran in 05.
You don’t just eat the bad performance of a player because you owe him 12 million. Bernie only played 112 games in the OF in 05 and 89 in 06, he was being phased out and replaced by worse players than Carlos Beltran.
Enough of this crap. I need to get some sleep. I have a 6 AM flight.
“As far as Beltran being willing to give the Yankees “a discount”, he said that after the fact. He’s a Boras client. That wasn’t happening.”
——————————–
What motivation on earth would Beltran’s people have to lie about that?
“Hey I’m a Met and so happy, but lets put out a report that I really wanted to be a Yankee. Actually I wanted to be a Yankee so bad I was willing to knock 1 year and 20 million off my contract! Woops. I mean I love being a Met!”
Yes, please take your crap to bed. No one needs a grump who can’t argue to save his life AND has a bunch of bad opinions to go with it.
GB,
Sleep well. Where are you off to?
Scotty: “Carlos, just letting you know I am going to make up this story that you were willing to give the Yankees a discount. Sound good?”
Carlos: “Oh yeah sure Scotty. That will really make me a fan favorite at Shea. Go for it dude.”
A couple obvious things about contracts
Any long term and expensive contracts will have it’s fair share of risks involved due to players age and contract years
It’s generally not a good investment when you offer premium dollars for an aging and declining superstar
Jeter taking a pay cut is a reasonable argument. While no one knows yet what the ultimate figure will be, the thought process is a sound one IMO.
blake November 7th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
WCYF,
But those dividend payments are significant right…..I mean they own the network.
****************
Yes Blake you are right. The Yankees own one-third of YES and have received dividends in excess of $100 million dollars in addition to the rights fees they collect.
Technically the Yankees do not own YES.
Yankee Global Enterprises which is controlled by the Steinbrenners own YES and the Yankees as separate entities.
As per the ‘The Bill James Handbook 2011′, Jeter was the worst fielder on the team, with a (-13) Runs Saved. For perspective, Captain Hip was (-5) at 3rd base. It’s possible in 3 years, even if he was free, Jeter won’t be able to man the position.
And no… you can’t move a 39 year old who has bever played the OF to LF. A much younger, more athletic Soriano was a butcher in the OF… so what would you expect from Jeter?
LGY,
Yes but the Steinbrenners control them both so money from YES benefits the Yanks.
Too bad Jeter’s contract wasn’t up at the end of 2009. I don’t care what they do or don’t pay him. He has been the Yankees SS since I was 8 and it just wouldn’t be the same without him. I haven’t prepared myself for that yet.
Please, Jeter is not a reincarnate of Soriano.
Both Yount and Molitor made the transition Jeter can too.
Whether it is ARod, Bernie Williams, Mantle or Jeter many here just can’t seem to come to grips that when players age and their skills decline it is time to let go not give them another 6 year deal. How many players are still productive into their 40’s ?
Being reasonable and prudent with the number of years so these contracts with older players don’t turn into an albatross like ARods is smart business. It is not about being able to afford them which the Yankees can.
Yea, SJ44…he’s much worse than Curtis….told you he has SOME potential, or else the LAD wouldn’t have protected him. I say hire SJ44 to be the new pitching coach, since he knows all lol.
LGY and Blake-
Technicalities and ownership percentages aside, for reasons of other partners, taxes, etc. The Yankees own 1/3 of YES and receive the $84 million in fees annually as well as dividends. That revenue goes right into the Yankees coffers.
Before you know it ARod, Jeter, Mo, Posada, Pettitte will be in the starting lineup in 2015 and beyond.
It will be very interesting when it’s all said and done to look back at all this and see how it all played out:
1. When did Pettitte hang them up?
2. When did Mo call it quits? Did he do it while he was still great or did he hang on too long?
3. When did Jeter call it quits? Same question, did he do it while he was still performing at a relatively high level, or did he hang on too long?
4. What’s A-Rod’s performance going to be like the next 7 years?
Gil Patterson will interview for the pitching coach vacancy this week.
Molitor played all of 52 games in the OF and posted a career RS/162 of -6.
Yount was moved to the OF when he was 29, and posted a career RS/162 of -8.
So, when Jeter moves to LF he will be what…. a below average fielder with a below average OPS for the position…. and you want to pay him what? $15m/yr?
Jeter’s value is that even as a below average fielding SS, his .850 OPS made him one of the best in the game. However, a sub .800 OPS, below average defensive OFer isn’t worth a hell of a lot these days. Certainly not to a team looking to win the WS every year.
“LGY and Blake-
Technicalities and ownership percentages aside, for reasons of other partners, taxes, etc. The Yankees own 1/3 of YES and receive the $84 million in fees annually as well as dividends. That revenue goes right into the Yankees coffers.”
————————————–
This is not necessarily true.
Since the Steinbrenners hold them as separate companies, it is not clear how much if at all of their YES revenue they invest in the team.
N/M.
I should say beyond that $84 million, we don’t know how much.
They pay that money directly to the Yankees.
LGY,
that’s the point though….they can really invest as much of it into the team as they want to……
OldYanksFan
Let’s say Jeter’s bottom line is 17 mill for three. Who do you propose the Yankees get to play SS?
Lets say 3 possibilities?
Basically, what I am saying is that $84 million benefits the Yankees per year.
Beyond that whether it is dividends, profits, whatever from YES we do not know how much if any money benefits the actual team.
Sorry for the triple post to make that simple point
oldyankfan
Jeter is a gifted athlete who can run, throw and has quick reflexes I think he would make a very good outfielder.
I didn’t make any comments about how what he should be paid, it’s beside the point, I just dispute your opinion selling him short.
But honestly neither of us have any idea how well he would adapt, what I really don’t like is your comments running him down.
LGY November 7th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
“LGY and Blake-
Technicalities and ownership percentages aside, for reasons of other partners, taxes, etc. The Yankees own 1/3 of YES and receive the $84 million in fees annually as well as dividends. That revenue goes right into the Yankees coffers.”
————————————–
This is not necessarily true.
Since the Steinbrenners hold them as separate companies, it is not clear how much if at all of their YES revenue they invest in the team.
********************
LGY – I am referring to the Yankees deal with YES. The Yankees, the ball club, have sold YES the rights to televise their games. In return, the Yankees, the ball club, not Yankee Global Enterprises, receives $84 million in fees annually as well as dividends. This is public record.
Let us be realistic.
Other than SS, Jeter will be very well below the league average at any other posiition and him as a full time player at those postions the team will suffer in production will need to compensate for it from other positions.
Loving Jeter is one thing which I do too, but being blind to the reality of the situation is something else…..
“In return, the Yankees, the ball club, not Yankee Global Enterprises, receives $84 million in fees annually as well as dividends. This is public record.”
That is wrong.
YGE receives the dividends as they are the stakeholders in the YES network and they will not be invested inYankees, the team. They may load that money if needed.
Isn’t this like renting an office building from yourself though if you own a corporation….its just legal names for things for tax purposes etc….the steinbrenners own them both so im guessing that they can allocate the 300+ million.that the YES network brings in however they want to.
*** loan***, not load.
BBFan
Actually I can see pretty well. If I’m not mistaken I follow a team who has had in very recent history Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, Bobby Abreu and this past season Marcus Thames and Nick Swisher playing in the outfield.
You’re telling me that Jeter couldn’t play as well or better then any of those in the outfield?
“the steinbrenners own them both so im guessing that they can allocate the 300+ million.that the YES network brings in however they want to.”
The are separate legal entities even if owned by the same people.
# Vineyard Yankee November 7th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Being reasonable and prudent with the number of years so these contracts with older players don’t turn into an albatross like ARods is smart business. It is not about being able to afford them which the Yankees can.
———-
The problem with that argument is that you are taking the mindset of the GM of teams like the Red Sox, Cubs, or any other team in MLB that’s not a Yankee icon with 5 rings.
This isn’t about my sentiment towards one player or another. You would have valid points if this was another team. It’s not. It’s the Yankees and we’re talking about the biggest Yankee icon since Mantle.
That’s why these negotiations are different from anyone else and their status with their own organization.
The Yankees and Jeter are on a completely different playing field and the Steinbrenners and Cashman understand that better than you guys do.
I personally don’t care what Jeter gets because it’s not coming out of my bank account.
It doesn’t matter what we think in a general business sense because we aren’t operating another franchise. You are comparing apples and oranges when you try to compare the business models of other organizations to the Yankees.
blake,
I don’t know of any owners who pull revenue from other investments they have to the benefit of their sports franchises.
I would assume the revenue the Yankees factor in when deciding the budget is only Yankee revenue.
BBFan November 7th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
“In return, the Yankees, the ball club, not Yankee Global Enterprises, receives $84 million in fees annually as well as dividends. This is public record.”
That is wrong. YGE receives the dividends as they are the stakeholders in the YES network and they will not be invested inYankees, the team. They may load that money if needed.
********************
It is the same thing! Yankee Global Enterprises is the corporation that owns it all. YGE is owned and controlled by the Steinbrenner family, Hank and Hal. They own both the Yankees and the YES network.
I know Jeter’s play in the outfield could measure up to what we got from Gary Sheffield but I’d really like to know who actually thinks that Derek Jeter couldn’t play a better RF then Nick Swisher?
But there are books and legal requirements to meet and partners to be accountable to. Hence, the Yankees, the ball club, sell the rights to televise the games for $84 million dollars. This money is paid and is subject to normal accounting reconciliation, etc.
They are seperate entities to split up risk and for various other reasons Id imagine…..I don’t see how that would stop the owner of both entities from using the revenues in whatever way they wish. In the end the money goes to the same place.
“Actually I can see pretty well. If I’m not mistaken I follow a team who has had in very recent history Johnny Damon, Hideki Matsui, Bobby Abreu and this past season Marcus Thames and Nick Swisher playing in the outfield.
You’re telling me that Jeter couldn’t play as well or better then any of those in the outfield?”
Frist I said league average.
Even otherwise when you commpare full time role production, Damon, Matsui and Abreu’s produciton as Yankees is better. Jeter would provide better defense but overall contribution will be below league average. Jeter is a singles hitter with occasional HR, but the corner poistions are supposed to be prower produciton positions.
Blake that is generally true but there are corporate legalities and requirements that must be adhered to that no one is privy to as no one sees their books, it’s a privately held company.
Lgy,
Oh im.sure that’s how they set their budget as well…..im just saying they technically could if they wanted.
“but I’d really like to know who actually thinks that Derek Jeter couldn’t play a better RF then Nick Swisher?”
I would have to say oldyankeefan. Since he thinks Soriano would be better than Jete. I am not sure why I find that hilarious.
WCYF
Fair enough.
BBFan
If the corner positions on the Yankee team were power production positions Gardner wouldn’t be in LF.
There is no doubt in my mind Jeter would play a better rf then Swisher and a smarter one.
I came here to dispute a few comments about Jeter from posters claiming that Jeter would not able to play in the Yankee outfield, I think he can and would improve the team defense in the case of Nick Swisher..
“It doesn’t matter what we think in a general business sense because we aren’t operating another franchise. You are comparing apples and oranges when you try to compare the business models of other organizations to the Yankees.”
Steinbrenners have an obligation to keep the team competitive and always try to win.
All the fans, including you, will not accept losing with over the hill players on the team.
Agree that Yanks have to pay more than other teams as long as he is prodctive. But they do not have to keep him on the team when he is not.
Like Pettite why can’t he accept a short term contract and then go year to year as long as he is productive?
Tar – you mean 3/$51m?
I would hope Cashman could impress upon Jeter that with the ARod, Teix and CC contracts, the Yankees will be an old and SUPER expensive team in 2013, and that overpaying Jeter HURTS the team.
Now everyone here… EVERYONE…. knows that 3/$45m is well above his value… at least 50% more. There will not be one pundit that would accuse the Yanks of low balling Derek.
Does Derek care about the team winning?
Is his ego that massive that he would foul his legacy by jumping to another team?
And what other team gives him more then 2/$20?
I, like everyone here, wants Derek to finish as a Yankee. He must.
If you look at his numbers, and the various records, he should basically reach everything he can reach in 3 decent years. Unless by some miracle he is still above average after 2013, why would he, or anyone, want him to play longer?
Anyone here want to list the Shortstops that were above average at the age of 40?
If Cashman gives him 3/$51m, I can live with it. It’s just $10m wasted. The 3 is more important then the 51.
RhapsodyInBlue
Almost all MLB players are gifted athletes.
I am not selling him short.
Babe Ruth got old.
Mantle got old.
I got old.
You too, will get old.
It’s not an insult… it’s a reality of life.
In 2013, at 40, what do you think Jeter’s OPS will be?
Do you think he will be an above average OFer (with 1 year experience there)?
I am against Cliff Lee if he wants 5 years.
This team could be crippled with older, lesser productive players in 3 years.
Money DOES matter…. even to the Yankees.
“but I’d really like to know who actually thinks that Derek Jeter couldn’t play a better RF then Nick Swisher?”
You mean if Jeter started playing the OF 4 years ago, right?
You mean if they were the same age, right?
You’re not comparing a 40 year old Jeter with ZERO experience in the OF to Swisher, are you? Really?????
Have you every played the game?
Do you think it only takes a few fly balls before you learn how to track the best routes to balls hit 380′ in the gap?
Playing OF may be easier then playing INF (although it’s a different skill set), but it still ain’t easy.
And by the way, check this out.
http://www.baseball-reference......ni01.shtml
Swisher, over his career, is a dead average OFer.
However, that is because he sucked in CF, somewhere he never should have been placed.
Careerwise, he is an above average RFer, and a well above average LFer.
And according to THIS YEARS Bill James Handbook: (h/t WasWatching.com)
LF: Brett Gardner +13 Runs Saved
RF: Nick Swisher +7 Runs Saved
2B: Robinson Cano +7 Runs Saved
CF: Curtis Granderson +4 Runs Saved
1B: Mark Teixeira -1 Run Saved
3B: Alex Rodriguez -5 Runs Saved
C: Jorge Posada -8 Runs Saved
SS: Derek Jeter -13 Runs Saved
Yes, Swisher was tied for our 2nd best fielder (although Teix should be in there, and maybe Curtis), and Jeter was by far the worst. That’s this year. Think 2012 and 2013.
Do you have ANY facts, stats, or other’s educated opionions to back up any of your opinions?
Giuseppe Franco
November 7th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
In a nut shell I hope the Yankees have learned from the ARod blunder of re-signing him when he opted out and don’t do anymore of these expensive sentimental contracts for any players into their mid 40′s.
IMO, these types of contracts hurt the team in the long haul with the large dollars, decreased production, increased injuries as well as holding the team back from infusing new younger talent.