The guy behind the guy
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Nov 09, 2010 
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Of all the issues the Yankees have this offseason, one of the most important also figures to be one of the simplest: Bringing back Mariano Rivera.
We know it’s going to happen. If there’s, say, a 5 % chance that the Yankees don’t work out a deal with Derek Jeter (if that much) than there’s like a .0001 % chance they don’t get Rivera signed (maybe a two-year deal, though there are rumblings that maybe Rivera just wants to go year-to-year now). In other words, the Yankees have their closer.
But what about their setup guy? Kerry Wood did a nice job after coming over late, but he (understandably) wants to try and close somewhere next year. And as the great MLB Trade Rumors site mentions here, he isn’t be the only one. With a glut of closer hopefuls likely on the market and few actual closing jobs available, it figures that the Yankees might try and add a high-end reliever to work behind Rivera. If you can’t be a closer, I’d say that setup man for the Yankees is about as good a gig as there is.
Would the Yankees bring in someone from outside to pitch ahead of Joba Chamberlain or Dave Robertson? I wouldn’t be surprised. Jesse Crain, Jon Rauch, Kevin Gregg and another (sort of) intriguing injury reclamation in J.J. Putz, who bombed with the Mets but had 65 strikeouts in 54 innings for the White Sox last year, are some of the possibilities. Depending on how the trade and non-tender markets shape up, someone like Heath Bell or Leo Nunez could be available, too (though the package, especially for Bell, might be pretty steep).
One name I get emailed all the time from people is Scott Downs. Obviously he had a very nice year for Toronto and would give the Yankees another lefty (something we may talk more about later this week), but don’t forget: He’s a Type-A free agent. Giving up draft picks for Mark Teixeira is one thing, but I’m not so sure the Yankees would want to give up picks for a lefty reliever.
Remember, the Yankees got ultimately Wood for two extremely low-level prospects – the deal at the time was actually for cash or a player to be named. The key for bullpen acquisitions is always finding high value for low price since production typically varies so wildly from year to year.
Sam -
I don’t see any way the Yankees get Kerry Wood back. He had such a strong second half for the Yankees someone will tab him as a closer.
What’s more – I would be wary about signing him anyway – I think the Yankees caught a lot of luck not having Wood break down on them. I think you take the win and walk away.
I would like the club to ink two more left handed relief pitchers. With Marte hurt the Yankees only have one lefty above AA in Boone Logan (no I don’t count Igawa as an option). My preference is Downs and Choate but I would take Feliciano over Downs.
From the right side – I stay away from Gregg and Benoit. I wouldn’t mind Grant Balfour or JJ Putz, but if he’s available I would love for the club to try and pry away David Aardsma from Seattle or take a shot with Joel Zumaya if he gets non-tendered.
Another lefty I would throw into the mix – depending on his asking price – is Brian Fuentes. I don’t know if he would be willing to take a set up role, but if he was he would be a nice addition to the back of the pen.
a post made for Chip
personally I would like to see Wood return. I still have faith in D-rob as well.
The Yankees need another lefty. Joba and Dave R do just fine from the right side.
I hope the Yanks spend no significant additional money on the bullpen.
Chasing “set-up guys” is a mug’s game, IMO. To the extent their is room in the budget it should go to starting pitching and the bench.
Patrick from CT November 9th, 2010 at 11:58 am
The Yankees need another lefty. Joba and Dave R do just fine from the right side.
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If that was true then the Yankees would not have needed to trade for Kerry Wood.
MTU:
WDLR had a tough year in Trenton. Put oodles of guys on base and his K rate dropped. Yankees DFA’d him and he cleared waivers, so nobody seemed especially wild about his prospects. I’d imagine he’ll be made available in the Rule 5, but if waivers were any indication, he’ll be in Trenton again.
Wave -
Better to get pen help in the offseason when all it costs is money than during the season when it costs money and prospects.
Mell November 9th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
MTU:
WDLR had a tough year in Trenton. Put oodles of guys on base and his K rate dropped. Yankees DFA’d him and he cleared waivers, so nobody seemed especially wild about his prospects. I’d imagine he’ll be made available in the Rule 5, but if waivers were any indication, he’ll be in Trenton again.
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Mell – didn’t he also face a suspension for performance enhancers along with Sanit? Or was that Wilkin Arias?
I would love to see Wood come back, but I’m definitely not expecting it.
Chip-
I disagree. Money will be at a premium in the off-season. And you never know which relievers will decide to have a good year.
Wait until midseason to get one, when you know what you need and who is pitching well.
Chip:
Not aware that WDLR faces any suspension, but you may well be right.
It didn’t really the Yanks much in prospects in the Wood trade.
Do you even know the names of the prospects that went to CLE?
Didn’t really cost the Yanks much…
Chip,
Yea he does make a lot of.sense for them and could.make them potentially very good in a couple of years assuming Strasburg comes back healthy. I don’t know if Lee would go there but someone will say yes to them eventually….
“Wait until midseason to get one, when you know what you need and who is pitching well”
Even then it’s a crapshoot. See: The Gagne Rule (:
cgrand14: Had a blast with @MarthaStewart on @TheMarthaShow this morning! http://a.yfrog.com/img529/5739/sg3v.jpg
Wave -
Even if we forget Downs – the big ticket guy on the list that I would want – I don’t see a combination of Feliciano, Choate and Balfour costing the Yankees more than $4 mil next year.
Damn Grandy has wide shoulders. No wonder he can hit bombs.
I know Berkman and Wood don’t make a lot of sense for the Yankees next year (Wood does on the field but probably not in.dollars) but I really enjoyed both of their times with the Yankees…..wish it could’ve lasted just a bit longer.
Franco -
That’s true – it didn’t cost the Yankees much to get Wood in terms of prospects but that was a salary dump by the Indians.
They were getting rid of a guy they still owed nearly $5 mil to and who had been hurt all season.
It just happened to work out for the Yankees, but there aren’t that many cases of overpaid relievers on non-contending teams around to pick from anymore.
Mell-
thanks for the info.
Mell -
I just looked up WDLR – MLB investigated him and Ivan Nova based on reports that they were injecting themselves with B-12
KLaw:
Yankees lefty Manny Banuelos, was also excellent with a ridiculous changeup that had plus arm speed and hard, late fading action, and he touched 94 as well. I don’t see much physical projection with Banuelos, who is already pretty maxed out physically (unless he gets taller — he is just 19), but his feel for pitching and fastball command are extremely advanced and tightening his curveball would give him three above-average or better pitches too.
My choices would be Leo Nunez or Carlos Marmol if available. But what kind of packages would land these types of arms? That’s the risk with Bullpen.
Blake -
I agree – I think both Wood and Fat Elvis would have been nice here if they had lasted a little longer (and in Berk’s case if he had been healthier) but sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle and have to know not to chase it too hard.
Dee -
Marmol – No chance. The Cubs are hoping to contend next year and won’t want to part with their closer.
Nunez – No idea. The Marlins typically don’t like helping out the Girardi-led Yankees due to Joe’s fall out with their GM and owner.
How about Rich Harden? He seems like the perfect starter to convert to the 8th inning role. He throws mid 90′s with a good change. He has reached triple digits on occasion when younger. And with his injury history, he should be a reliever. He could be the next Kerry Wood.
If Andy retired I wouldn’t be totally against the Yankees trying to swing a deal with the Royals where New York wound up with Gil Meche and Robinson Tejada – provided Meche is healthy.
I admit, I have no idea what his health status is at this point.
The Yanks got lucky on wood. Lights out relievers are expensive to acquire in terns of prospects during the season and around deadline. I am in the opinion that the Yanks could look into the FA market and sign one. With Marte and Karsay as a recent example, I would tread carefully on the multi year deals. But I do think the Yanks need more depth either in front or behind The Hutt and Drob.
As far as loogy or legit lefty goes, I like Feliciano.
Bring back Phil Coke.
SteveD -
Not an outlandish suggestion – I think Harden’s going to shop around for starting jobs first though.
Chip-
I watched Fuentes a lot when he was with the Rockies.
I always thought he sucked. Not reliable IMO.
I think a good setup 8th inning guy is needed, there is no confidence in Joba to fill that role anymore and Roberston, although a good relief pitcher is not that dependable shut them down guy the Yankees need in that position.
There is another reason – no one knows when Mo will falter due to age or an injury, it gets more and more likely every year. It would be great to have capable closers like Benoit, Rauch or Kevin Gregg on the roster to provide insurance against that unfortunate possibility.
another guy to add to the former starter pile would be Ben Sheets.
I think he’s probably done, but if he wanted to stick around in the game it would likely have to be as a reliever.
MTU -
Yeah I don’t really trust Fuentes in a big spot – that’s why he’s fourth on my list.
Bringing up the Rockies though – I would love Huston Street.
The idea that a set-up man is necessary is a modern delusion, like the notion of a closer, but even more so.
I’d like to see the Yanks look internally to fill their bullpen, and spend every dime saved on starting pitching and the bench.
Good assessment by Law actually. I thought ManBan looked great…..change up is nasty.
“Bringing up the Rockies though – I would love Huston Street”
I like that idea too.
So, basically everyone pretty much agrees that we need to add at least two arms to the BP this year. A viable 8th inning candidate as well as a Lefty Reliever. I definitely think both are necessities given the unpredictability of the in-house candidates.
How about AJ to the pen. He easily has top-line closer stuff. Maybe if he could just throw hard for an inning and not have to use his brain, that would keep him out of trouble.
Chip-
I think it would be nice if we could find another power lefty.
WYH-
That’s why I thought of WDLR. Unfortunately, he does seem to be doing well.
Blake-
Law must have had a high fever when wrote that. He was actually fair to the Yankees. Don’t care what he thinks anyway.
Unless they bend on the budget….there is no way they can bring back Jeter, River, and Pettite, sign Lee and also add to the bullpen. They will be pushing it with just those 4. Now if Andy retires then they could use that money towards the pen I guess….im.guessing that if the pen or offense is addressed then it will be via trade.
MTU,
I don’t care what Law thinks either but he was correct in this case.
Dee I agree but don’t think another lefty reliever is that important at the start of the season given that we have Logan. That’s a role that can be tweaked as the year unfolds.
Blake-
What’s old saying, “Even a broken clock is right once a day”.
Scott Downs wouldn’t cost the Yankee a 1st rounder if they sign Lee right? That pick would go to Texas and a 2nd rounder for Downs.
Also for another lefty reliever is Marte totally out of the picture, or is he shot ?
When is he expected back ?
Blake -
I think if Cashman considers Marte a loss he’ll be able to use the money allocated to him this winter as well.
Also I think that the budget is an issue when talking about big money pickups not a middle reliever or a bench player.
So yeah, if the Yankees re-sign Jeter, Mo and Andy and then get Lee I don’t believe Brian would have the money to go out and sign Werth, Soriano and Crawford.
But I don’t think Hal would have a problem with him spending another 3 or 4 mil to shore up the bench and pen.
Remember, Brian said in 2009 that there was “no way” he could budget for CC, AJ and Tex yet here they all are. He proved to Hal that they were necessary and then avoided a lack of flexibility during the season by getting Pittsburgh to pick up some money in the Hinske deal and by rolling with Melky instead of sealing a deal for Mike Cameron. I think he would have similar freedom this season.
MTU -
Marte’s out until at least the All-Star break.
Considering he hasn’t pitched much in the regular season in the last two years – I’m not holding my breath on Damaso Marte-Pavano coming back.
MTU,
I was thinking Marte wa on target to be.back around the all star break..maybe im.wrong…
Chip-
Thanks. Just wondering. Don’t want to waste to much treasure on a reliever.
Where’s Bret ? He hasn’t chimed in on Soria.
WCYF -
If the Yankees had another lefty relief pitcher in the system I would tend to agree with you.
But I don’t think you can go into a season with Boone Logan and Kei Igawa as the only two lefty relievers above the AA level.
Feliciano and Choate shouldn’t cost much and both would be strong additions to the pen.
Go with a pen of:
LHP: Logan, Feliciano, Choate
RHP: Mo, Joba, Robertson, Nova/Moseley/Aceves
That gives you balance and options.
The idea that a set-up man is necessary is a modern delusion, like the notion of a closer, but even more so.
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I agree to an extent. However the idea of good pitcher is not an illusion. With the lack of good starting pitching on FA market period. The route to improve pitching would be adding depth through bp.
The Yankees will have little left after above mentioned names, But that’s because they have to overpay for Jeter and none of these guys are likely to inclined to take a hometown discount.
Chip,
Maybe…we’ll see. They could always address it at the trade deadline as they did this year as well.
I think Marte is shot but the Yankees owe him $4 million anyway.
If they sign Lee, Downs would cost us a 2nd or 3rd round pick – much better. But he will cost $5 million. That’s a lot for a middle reliever these days.
I don’t suppose there is any way we can pry Thornton away from the Sox ?
He would be great. I think they just re-signed him.
Will Ohman.
White Sox picked up Thornton’s 2011 option a couple weeks back.
blake November 9th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Chip,
Maybe…we’ll see. They could always address it at the trade deadline as they did this year as well.
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I don’t think it’s that easy anymore Blake.
Yankees lucked out with Wood – he was an expensive reliever on a bad team that was looking to cut payroll – if you take a look around the league the number of guys who fit that bill are dwindling.
Teams are asking for a small fortune for quality relievers during the season – look at what Toronto wanted for Downs and the Royals were asking for with Soria.
Even Matt Capps – an average reliever from the Nationals cost the Twins a top catching prospect in Flores.
I would just rather see the Yankees address their issues now as much as possible.
Mark Buehrle’s wife posted on Facebook yesterday that he won the gold glove. I’m sure MLB was thrilled.
Chip – I agree they would be an asset, I still don’t see it as a crucial must have to start the season. The Yankees survived with just Logan most of the year.
If I have to give considerable amt to a reliever, I give it to Benoit for year or two. The guy is battle tested in AL east and has nasty stuff. He finally seem to be healthy from injury in his second year. I believe he has quite a bit left in the tank. I heard rumors of RS going hard after him.
With Igawa and Marte coming off the book this year, the Yanks should look into Benoit seriously least the RS gets him.
Chip,
Id love for them to get Downs if they sign Lee but I don’t know.how realistic that is…..im hoping the guy they add for the 2nd half next year is Andrew Brackman.
pat,
you follow Buehrle’s wife on facebook?
I think the way to go is looking at candidates via trade.
Looks like 7-8 teams are in on Cliff Lee. Ka-ching for Mr. Lee. I think the Angels and Texas will drive his price way up and wouldn’t be surprised if Boston was in on it for the same reason. They know the Yankees have no backup plan if we don’t get Lee.
Wouldn’t be surprised at 6 years – $145
Blake-
I thought we were talking about lefties.
Brackman is right-handed.
He’s got the power but I imagine he is going to be brought along slowly. He’s a long way away from the EIG at this point.
He’s one of GB’s favorites for the pen.
Two free agents have big “DANGER” signs on them for me this winter: Jorge de la Rosa and Joakim Benoit.
I see de la Rosa as Ollie Perez in training and Benoit as the second coming of Kyle Farnsworth – despite his good stats this past season – I just stay away from him.
Blake -
My big fear is that Downs is going to wind up in Boston.
The Sox will be able to part with the picks because they’re going to get draft picks back for Adrian Beltre. Downs and Bard in front of Papelbon will be a tremendous weapon for them.
WCYF -
At times Logan was great, at times he was terrible – I would like to have options.
Cashmoney – Marte is not off the books.
The guy behind the guy
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this title reminds a line in the movie Swingers…
Trent: Excuse me darling. I’m sorry. Wow. I want you to remember this face here, OK, this is the guy behind the guy behind the guy.
WC, he is after 2011, no?
WCYF,
I hope it doesn’t but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the bidding gets that high. I do think that’s about the limit though…can’t imagine anybody going to 7 years
I worry about Brackman’s control coming out of the pen. I also worry about turning Andrew Brackman into Joba Chamberlain, Jr. where we go through years of starter/reliever debate only to wind up with a kid who is ruined and goes from:
Tremendous prospect with ace potential
to
Aaron Heilman
MTU,
I know but I was just talking in general if he continues to progress that id like to see him in the pen in the 2nd half.
Benoit as the second coming of Kyle Farnsworth
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Chip, we had this discussion before. Benoit has already proven himself in pressure cooker situations. He did not walk anyone and exhibit impeccable control LY. He is a health risk, but so is everyone on the FA. Hudson represents a far health concern with less stuff in my opinion.
By the way – my ideal scenario would involve the Yankees bringing in two lefties and a major right handed reliever, sending Joba to AAA and telling him, “kid, we’re putting you in the rotation, just go out there and pitch.” and actually letting him try and become the pitcher he was before the Yankees screwed him up.
Chip November 9th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
WCYF – At times Logan was great, at times he was terrible – I would like to have options.
***********
Will have to respectfully disagree. Left-handers hit .190 with a .286 OBP with zero home runs and zero doubles. (1 triple)
Plus he’s 26 years old. I’m a huge fan.
The funny thing is that if the Yanks are successful in acquiring CL and AP returns all this talk about which reliever to get will become a lot less important.
Can you imagine the amount of rest a BP would get with a front 4 of CC, AP, CL, and Phil Hughes w/o an innings limit.
Heck. IF AJ bounces back he gives you length too.
I hope that’s the way it goes.
Cashmoney
I’m not diminishing Beniot’s year but I don’t consider 1 year in Tampa proving himself in the pressure cooker either.
And I also think that missing a year and most of a second makes him a slightly greater risk than some other players.
If the Yankees could get him for what Tampa paid him last season I would be all for it; but that’s not the case.
I’m more inclined to look for a guy who could be the next Benoit than to sign the actual Beniot.
Do what Tampa did, take a low cost gamble on a guy like Joel Zumaya, Jeremy Accardo, Rich Harden and see what happens.
West Coast Yankee Fan November 9th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Chip November 9th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
WCYF – At times Logan was great, at times he was terrible – I would like to have options.
***********
Will have to respectfully disagree. Left-handers hit .190 with a .286 OBP with zero home runs and zero doubles. (1 triple)
Plus he’s 26 years old. I’m a huge fan.
——————–
I’m a fan too – but with all the lefty hitters that the Yankees have to face I would still like to have more than one bullet in that particular gun.
I gotta run. I’ll catch you all later.
River Ave Blues just posted a Blog Post about the possibility of a Choate/Yankee Reunion in ’11. What do you guys think about using Choate as the primary Lefty Arm to accompany Boone Logan?
Great point MTU – The best bullpen is comprised of five starters that can go 7 innings most of the time.
* I don’t like predictions but will make one. With Hughes innings not limited in 2011, a full year starting under his belt with all the experience of success and failure that goes with that – and working on his change and curve ball in spring training – I think he will have a great year.
Youth + a cool, mature demeanor + a great arm = a gold mine.
Would love to see a bullpen with MO, Wood, Joba, Logan, D-Rob, Mosley, (insert second lefty)
Dee, Choate still has control problem along with mediocre stuff. But he has had some success as a loogy. If he is cheap, it’s not a bad option as a lefty specialist. I don’t know what you meant by primary, but I prefer to think Choate as a secondary option in any equations.
Cashmoney-
I just meant if our two options are going to be Logan/Choate then I assumed Choate would be the main guy to go to. Not that I want it that way….but that would be the main point of the signing. I’m a bit apprehensive about Choate myself. I mean, he probably would be a decent signing, I just think there might be better options if possible via trade- (maybe Breslow, Dusty Hughes, O’Flaherty, etc.). Just throwing names out there, not even sure if these arms are even available.
Dee, I think Choate is a cheap option to consider in terms of years and dollars.
# Chip November 9th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
By the way – my ideal scenario would involve the Yankees bringing in two lefties and a major right handed reliever, sending Joba to AAA and telling him, “kid, we’re putting you in the rotation, just go out there and pitch.” and actually letting him try and become the pitcher he was before the Yankees screwed him up.
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That sounds like a good scenario unfortunately he’s out of options so going down to AAA would require him to pass through waivers. Besides they would send him to AAA when he “lost” the 5th battle or when he was struggling in the middle of the season. Therefore they should just trade the kid and get something back for him