An unusual feeling
Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Nov 12, 2010 
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It may only be a technicality but for Derek Jeter, the past few days have meant facing a strange reality: He’s not a Yankee right now. Actually, if we’re being official about it, he’s unemployed.
“I think my parents were joking about it, earlier today,” Jeter told the media last night at Joe Torre’s “Safe At Home” gala. “My grandmother said I have no job, so then you think about it. But really, it doesn’t feel like there’s anything different, if I’m just telling you how I feel. I understand that there are negotiations that are going to come and those types of things, but for me personally, I don’t feel any different.”
Jeter confirmed that he and the Yankees had a meeting earlier this week in Florida, though he said the subject of a position change down the road didn’t come up. Ultimately, as Brian Cashman said, “I think we both want the future to be in pinstripes,” and there seems to be little doubt that Jeter will sign a new deal soon.
Until then, he’s out of work, though somehow I don’t think the Yankees are going to change the locks on him or anything.
* That’s an AP shot of the newest member of the American unemployed.
I hope he signs soon-it’s really weird that technically he’s not a Yankee right now. lol
He’s been a Yankee in some form since 1992. I was 12.
It’s crazy when you think about it like that.
Jeter will remain a Yankee, but there were some Hall of Fame players who finished their careers with other teams, in their later years:
Willie Mays with the NY Mets
Joe Montana with the KC Chiefs
Michael Jordan with the Washington Wizards.
Gordie Howe with the Hartford Whalers
Babe Ruth, Boston Braves.
Patrick Ewing, Magic
Joe Namath, Rams
Who was the last Yankee great to finish up with another team though? I know Ruth did but there really haven’t been a lot of others….
“Jeter will remain a Yankee, but there were some Hall of Fame players who finished their careers with other teams, in their later years:”
it’s a little different, but GB7 has signed up to ring a bell for the salvation army this upcoming holiday season.
Home grown Yankee greats don’t seem to end their careers on other teams.
Yogi played for the Met’s in ’65. Other than that, I can’t think of anybody else.
Its benefits the post playing career to finish up with the Yanks.
Looks like the Yankes have expressed interest in Jorge de la Rosa.
“De La Rosa, who will be 30 when the season starts next year, has put up a record of 8-7 in 20 starts this year with an ERA of 4.22, and 113 strikeouts compared to 55 walks. The scouting report on De La Rosa is that he throws mid 90’s, with a good use of offspeed pitche such as a slider, curveball, and changeup. Added with the fact he is a legnthy left handed pitcher, De La Rosa could be in line for a three year contract at about $7MM to$8MM a year”
Another lefty? Pettitte Insurance?
Sam…. you bad boy. Are you trying to instigate yet another discussion about our crappy fielding Shortstop?
How about a poll on how much Jeter gets?
I say: 3/$46 with a team option on yr 4 at $10m with a $5m buyout
“Another lefty? Pettitte Insurance?”
WCYF:
I’d think it’s much a message to the Lee camp as it is anything.
*…..it’s AS much a message
Mell November 12th, 2010 at 9:33 am
“Another lefty? Pettitte Insurance?”
WCYF:I’d think it’s much a message to the Lee camp as it is anything.
*************
I don’t think t’s any kind of message to Lee. Cashman is smarter than that. I think Cashman made it very clear to Lee and his agent how much they want him when he went to Arkansas In negotiations like these you want the target to feel like you want him more than the next team does. It’s a natural tendency to want to go where you are most wanted, assuming the other criteria are met.
WCYF,
Probably Lee OR Pettitte insurance. De la Rosa would be a good signing if Lee and/or Pettitte don’t sign and if he doesn’t cost a whole lot. He’d be a good 4 or 5 starter, and being a lefty is always nice for Yankee Stadium. I like De la Rosa’s stuff and I like the fact that although he’ll be 30 in April, he doesn’t have a ton of innings on his arm. I think he will probably be an effective back-end starter for a long time.
I think if you sign Lee then De la Rosa is unneccesary…..but if not then he could be useful.
I like De La Rosa .. the homeruns and ERA scare me a bit .
Patrick yes sir, I have always liked LaRosa. He’ll be pursued by other teams as well. I think the National League concerns are somewhat mitigated by the fact he pitched in Denver. Lefty, mid-nineties, good control, young. Nice.
To be honest if Pettitte doesn’t come back – that would be a great alternative. And given his age, maybe even better.
De la rosa’s numbers are likely affected by the fact that he pitches in colorado…..but then again that could be negated by the fact that the NL West can’t hit a lick.
De La Rosa’s ERA has steadily gone down the last 4 years as he has matured. That’s a good sign especially in Denver I think.
2007 – 5.82
2008 – 4.92
2009 – 4.38
2010 – 4.22
WCYF:
I don’t put a lot of stock in such visits. Money is going to tell the tale, just like it did with Sabathia two years ago. The message isn’t a so much a matter of whether the Yankees want him or not. They, along with 29 other teams, would love to have Cliff Lee. I see the message as more about the terms under which they want him. Not suggesting there won’t be plenty of room for negotiation, but the length of contract is probably going to be the major debate between the two camps. Just as Lee is outwardly leaving his options open, so too is Cashman. I think this is, to some degree, part of that.
It ain’t a bad meeage to Lee that ‘we really want you… but can live without you’.
There is simply NO WAY that Texas can even come close to outbidding the Yankees. Zero. None. Nada. Zippo. If Lee can be bought, then he is a Yankee.
The question for Cashman therefore, is how to get him withOUT bidding against ourselves.
I don’t think Texas can go 5/$100m, but certainly not 5/$110. At $22m/yr, Lee would represent 25% or their payroll ($65m in 2010, maybe $85m in 2011?). Texas already had a VERY good player who took up 25% of their $100m payroll at the time. How did that turn out?
Maybe Cashman should let Texas go 5/$105m on Lee, and then in 2 years, the Yankees can buy him from Texas ala ARod.
Lee knows he will be fitted for Pinstripes. His ONLY stategy is to get as much money as possible.
Maybe Cashman can tell Lee they CAN’T go to $23m/yr, as CC would be insulted and has an Opt Out clause.
It’s a game of cat and mouse…. and I hope Cashman wins it.
Was De La Rosa’s injury serious?
WCYF,
Agreed. My only concern is he’s never thrown 200 innings in a season. I know earlier I said it’s good that he doesn’t have many innings on his arm but its a little worrying that he either doesn’t have the ability to pitch deep into games or has durability concerns.
Still, I agree with you. I’d go after him if Pettitte or Lee falls through.
Patrick, the other FA options are horrible agreed?
WCYF,
Oh yeah, no doubt.
Lee will be a Yankee, but it is going to take a little while.
If anyone cares, KLaw talked about Banuelos recently. He’s pitching in the AFL
“His opponent, Yankees lefty Manny Banuelos, was also excellent with a ridiculous changeup that had plus arm speed and hard, late fading action, and he touched 94 as well. I don’t see much physical projection with Banuelos, who is already pretty maxed out physically (unless he gets taller — he is just 19), but his feel for pitching and fastball command are extremely advanced and tightening his curveball would give him three above-average or better pitches too.”
I’m guessing someone already posted this here but I figured I’d post it just in case!
Another Texas article on Lee about his intrigue with NY.
http://www.dallasnews.com/shar…..2b05a.html
“2007 – 5.82
2008 – 4.92
2009 – 4.38
2010 – 4.22″
I’d be interested in his FIP. He puts an awful lot of guys on base. Lot of walks. Also wonder whether the 1.11 GB/FB ratio is merely fluke from a guy who’s career GB/FB ratio heading into the 2010 season was .82.
Elston Howard ended up with the Pink Sox
As revered as Andy is. Would that be the worst thing in the world if Pettitte doesn’t come back? You can probably sign De La Rosa for $8-9 million, savings you could put into someone like Benoit.
Sabathia
Lee
Hughes
Burnett
De La Rosa
Baneulos is nearly 2 years younger than Casey Kelly, appears to have adjusted to AA better, and is left handed.
Lots of good ‘links’ this morning (last thread too), thanks all.
“If anyone cares, KLaw talked about Banuelos recently. He’s pitching in the AFL”
Law has been quite high on Banuelos for most of the summer. Says Betances has a little higher ceiling, but that Banuelos stands a better chance of hitting his.
Vineyard good morning. That link isn’t working sir.
WCYF,
Biggest difference is that Andy would be on a one year deal and de La Rosa wouldn’t. I’d much rather have Andy for 1 more year than De La Rosa for 3….
I assume the Yankees are just doing their due diligence on De La Rosa at this point.
On the one hand, you don’t want to lock up a rotation spot with another multi year deal. You want to be able to slide a cost controlled young guy (one of the Bs preferably) in 2011.
On the other hand, if you do sign De La Rosa for 3/21 or 3/24 after year 1 that is a very movable contract and potentially even a valuable trade chip if he pitches well in 2011.
Banuelos is a tad under 6 feet tall, but looks like he has the same body type as Santana so he’ll be around 195-200 pounds when he completely fills out.
I think :
Sabathia
Lee
Hughes
Pettite
Burnett
would potentially be the best rotation in baseball and that is what I’d shoot for…..imagine if AJ bounced back closer to his norms out of the 5 spot.
Blake. Close call but I get your point. And then there’s Pettitte’s post-season experience to factor in.
Nice to see Cashman has a plan. He referred to that on the YES Hot Stove yesterday, the need to have numerous backup plans.
Mell
FIPs
07 5.27
08 4.06
09 3.91
10 4.30
WCYF,
If I have the choice between De la Rosa at 3 years and Pettitte at 1 year I probably go with Andy. That’s simply because the Yankees have 3 big time pitchers coming up soon that will be as good as De la Rosa or better. That would be, Brackman, Banuelos, Betances. If I can avoid paying a guy 8-9 million for 3-4 years I would. You have to think that at least ONE of the three B’s works out.
“Banuelos is a tad under 6 feet tall, but looks like he has the same body type as Santana so he’ll be around 195-200 pounds when he completely fills out.”
His mechanics are a little different than Santana’s but the build is similar and more importantly his change up could have that kind of upside…..it looked really good in that AFL game the other night. I really liked what I saw from him.
For what it’s worth, this was in the Dallas Morning News today:
Report: Cliff Lee not a fan of pitching in the Texas heat
01:23 AM CST on Friday, November 12, 2010
While Cliff Lee sits in his Arkansas home pondering which team will back a Brinks truck up to his garage, the rest of us speculate on where he will pitch in 2011. The media reports have included his wife not being in favor of New York Yankees fans and Lee wanting to pitch close to home. Those two rumors favor the left-hander staying in Texas. However, the newest rumblings do not.
Craig Calcaterra of NBCSports.com wrote Thursday that a source told him that Lee was “not terribly happy in Texas” and is concerned about how his body would hold up pitching in the Texas heat. Calcaterra also wrote: “It’s not clear if his unhappiness in Texas has to do specifically with the heat, if it also involves discombobulation over the fact that he was traded there in mid-season or if he just hates the place. And yeah, that’s second hand info. And yeah, I’m sure Lee and his agent will deny because they have absolutely zero interest in limiting their market right now, but it is what I’m hearing and you can place as much weight on it as you’d like.”
Calcaterra concluded: “But we’re not dealing with empirical evidence here. We’re dealing with the notion — a notion gossiped my way, but which purports to reflects Lee’s feelings on the matter — that he is worried about pitching in the hot Texas weather over the course of a season. It won’t make a difference if the Yankees do what everyone expects them to do and substantially outbid the Rangers. But if it’s close? This may just be something that pushes Lee towards Gotham.”
xFIP
07 5.11
08 4.06
09 3.76
10 3.77
blake,
Are you in Arizona? Did you go to see the game? If so, I’m jealous
There is no way ManBan is only 155 pounds as has been reported and is on his bio page.
The kid looked pretty well built in that AFL game the other week.
Patrick,
nah, it was on TV….I saw it in HD so as LGY said last night, I’m an expert
LGY,
Its hard to tell on TV but he looked closer to 180 to me.
Damn, I didn’t know it was on TV. I doubt it was on where I am anyways.
“Would that be the worst thing in the world if Pettitte doesn?t come back?”
Mo not coming back would be the worst but de la Rosa over Andy wouldn’t be my pick.
Another non-stud NL pitcher who hasn’t shown to be AL East/NY tested doesn’t have a place on my Plan A list.
Thanks LGY. Not bad.
I should add to my post above I only entertain De La Rosa if Pettitte doesn’t come back.
Every pitching contract carries a lot of risk with it. It doesn’t even matter how short it is beyond 1 year. These guys just get hurt too often.
There is a lot of value associated with the fact that Andy goes year to year.
Also, he is just a flat out better pitcher than De La Rosa. Probably significantly so.
pat November 12th, 2010 at 10:13 am
“Would that be the worst thing in the world if Pettitte doesn?t come back?”
Mo not coming back would be the worst but de la Rosa over Andy wouldn’t be my pick.Another non-stud NL pitcher who hasn’t shown to be AL East/NY tested doesn’t have a place on my Plan A list.
************
If Andy doesn’t return, who is a viable alternative in your opinion? Nova is a crap shoot as he tends to get rattled with men on base and doesn’t seem capable of going deep in games. Not yet to be fair, granted he is young.
LGY,
Yeah I agree with you. I’d be all over De la Rosa if Andy retires but otherwise I’d rather take AP on a 1 year deal.
The only problem with that is, De la Rosa will be signed somewhere else by the time Pettitte makes a decision on whether he’s coming back.
Cash’s comments are nothing but a smokescreen of sorts, although honestly? I think he doth protest too much. No one is buying what Cash is trying to sell – that they don’t badly need or want Lee (otherwise, they would not have offered up Montero for half a season last year). Now I do believe that they won’t go beyond what they want to with Lee – so if they are willing to go 6 for however much $$$ ,they will – but they won’t go further than that. I think that’s the right move. I would prefer to give Lee 5 years at a lot more $$$ than 6……………but I would go 6 (NO further) if necessary.
I have ignored the Jeter stuff from the beginning. Contract talks are boring to me and I know he’s going to wind up here, back where he belongs.
I just don’t buy that Romine is ready; the kid had a bad year this year in AA and now, at 21, he’s MLB ready?
Romine is nowhere near ready. Right now he has good power and a good arm and thats about it. He has a lot of things to work on.
I think Cashman will blow away any offer Texas (or any other team) makes on Lee.
If Andy doesn’t return, I want a veteran in that 5th spot (and that’s assuming we sign Lee, which I’m doing here, but which I’m not doing in general).
Jim Callis does not particularly like any of the killer B’s – just read his most recent comments (I posted them a week or so ago) and adores Kelly. At this point, I don’t even care; these youngsters are a couple of years away at least.
Patrick, I know- that’s why Cash’s comments make no sense.
“Jim Callis does not particularly like any of the killer B’s – just read his most recent comments (I posted them a week or so ago) and adores Kelly. At this point, I don’t even care; these youngsters are a couple of years away at least.”
Imagine that….funny to me given that he’s almost 2 years older than Baneulos and had a 5 + ERA in AA this year.
Betsy,
What comments are you referring to
I originally thought the Yankees would pull a CC and blow everyone out, but I don’t think so now. Lee is going to enjoy this process to the hilt and will likely be inviting numerous teams to visit him………..including the Sox, who will get involved even just to tweak the Yankees. Everytime a team visits him, we’re going to hear how much he was intrigued/impressed…………… The Yankees might as well sit back and wait until the offers come in, then make the highest bid.
Betsy – regarding Romine you are I believe missing the point. He is not likely to be handed the starting catching job unless he performs like Johnny Bench. I would say the odds are less than 15% and I think Cashman and everyone knows that.
It’s Montero’s job to lose and Posada is there as a backup plan, that’s why Cashman told him to prepare as if he was going to catch.
Cashman wants a healthy competitive camp and getting to see how Montero, Romine and Cervelli do with some pressure to perform is going to be helpful. That’s all.
Jim Callis is an idiot.
I would be that one of the “three B’s” gets a cup of coffee in the majors THIS YEAR. One or more of them will be ready for a spot on the opening day roster in 2012. A couple years at least? 1 year, maybe two.
Kelly had a 5.31 ERA and 1.61 WHIP in 21 AA starts this season……
Patrick, I’ll post them in a few……..
I still think Montero/Posada will share catching/DH duties with a pretty even split. Then you have a third catcher (Cervelli or a veteran) on the bench.
I’d let Montero and Posada catch 70 days each, the third guy can pick up the rest.
I think this is the strongest lineup the Yankees can put forth because you need Montero and Posada in there as much as possible. Are there any downsides to this idea that I’m missing?
Jim Callis is an editor.
Here’s John Manual first (he’s pretty down on the Yankees):
•Better prospect: Casey Kelly or Betances, Banuelos, Brackman?
•John Manuel: I’d take Kelly. He had a poor year but he has stuff as good as Betances, a bit better than Banuelos, great body, athleticism . . . I’m a Casey Kelly fan.
***************
More Manual:
•Mike (Minnesota): If Montero is in the “Piazza mold” for potential and comparable batting stats, who is Gary Sanchez most comparable to? The standard is now Joe Mauer…is he close to ever being that kind of impact?
John Manuel: No. He’s not going to win 3 batting titles, or one. I’d put his ceiling at just shy of Brian McCann, who gets overlooked too often in my opinion. That’s a pretty high ceiling. McCann was the best pos. player on a 91-win playoff team this year. That’s lofty. But it’s not Mauer.
“No one is buying what Cash is trying to sell ? that they don?t badly need or want Lee ”
I missed the quote where Cashman said they didn’t want Lee. The quote I saw said they weren’t desperate for Lee.
Wanting means you overpay a little. Desperate means you hand him a blank check. BIG difference.
Anyone here from Texas?
Anyone here spend some time in Texas during the summer?
It is brutal. Not hot… but BRUTAL!
Let’s remember that Lee won’t be commiting his family to NY forever.
It will simply be a 5 year vacation.
Lee will be rich beyond his greatest dreams, and he and his family will be able to live anywhere and no anything.
For all the hassles NY has, an all expenses paid 5 year vacation to NY will be an EXCELLENT experience for his family. They will live like Kings and be able to experience to finest aspects of NY.
Frankly, I think every bleecher creature could puke on Mz. Lee, and they would still come to NY. They will love the 4 seasons here, and enjoy 1 week of Winter before they fly off to Hawaii.
And this ‘they don’t won’t to live in big bad NY’ stuff is BS.
It is all BS and simply there to try and get the Yankees to offer more money.
And since half of a players time is spent on the road, his family can stay in Arkansas if they like. Cliff will only be in NY 90 days a year.
Meanwhile… May in Texas: today’s weather in Texas will be Brutal, while tomorrow it will turn Brutal, with a long range forcast of Brutal.
Meanwhile… there is all kinds of arrangements you can make…
ya know…
when you are making $20 MILLION DOLLARS a year.
This is Sickles on Montero:
Manny Banuelos, LHP, Yankees: The main thing I noticed about him was how smooth and easy his delivery is; he puts a lot less physical effort into it than Montgomery or Duffy yet generates very quality stuff. I am now a huge Banuelos fan.
http://www.minorleagueball.com.....#storyjump
********
Patrick I think you are close but if Montero performs as they hope – Posada will be the DH and not catch very much. Cashman was pretty clear to Jorge about that. If Montero falters – Posda and Cervelli are there. It’s a great position to be in.
The infamous Callis comments; his last comment is truly obnoxious
•Brian (CT): Jim, I have Yankee fans who are telling me they have three pitching prospects better than Casey. Help me.
Jim Callis: I don’t think they have one. Dellin Betances and Andrew Brackman turned a corner this year, finally, but both those guys might be relievers and I wouldn’t take either over Kelly. I wouldn’t take Manny Banuelos over him either. Me saying this isn’t going to make a difference with Yankees fans, though. You’ll just have to move further north.
WC, as we discussed last night, I am not happy at all with Montero practically being given the starting job – for many reasons. I was so ticked off I erased my DVR of the show without watching it; I didn’t want to hear anything Cash said.
Now, I doubt Romine is ready to start in the show, but a two things.
1. It is in Cash’s every interest to tell Romine to come to ST ready to compete for a big league job. That is great motivation for the kid and will help him even if he likely gets assigned to AA or AAA. Best case scenario he comes to camp in great form hitting lasers all over the place and you actually seriously consider him in some role. Either way you have a motivated young catcher ready to play next season.
2. You have to understand what he is up against in the majors. The standard catchers are held to. Below, is the average line for an AL catcher in 2010
.245/.312/.374 .686 OPS
At some point next season it’s possible Romine could help out the club. He doesn’t exactly need greatness stamped to his forehead to at least be average.
Think about how bad you think Cervelli’s bat is. He is an above average catcher in the AL. Really.
McCann is the third best catcher in the bigs, I’d be happy if Sanchez turns out like him.
Banuelos has added about 20 pounds since Charleston. No expectations for him to get much taller than he is at 5’10″ or so.
As far as what Callis likes, nobody cares? He thought getting Jeremy Hermida was the steal of the year and that Brandon Moss was God’s gift to baseball. Nobody’s any good unless they wear red socks, according to Callis, PA, Gammons and James.
Patrick, that’s what I would do. I still think Jorge can catch some and I want him catching the younger pitchers………..well, granted at this point that’s just Phil, but IF we go with a youngster in the 5th spot, I don’t like young C catching young, still developing pitchers.
Does this mean that Jeter has filed for unemployment benefits?
Patrick, you mean Montero?
Betsy, do you collect these quotes? If I read all this stuff I’d drive myself crazy!! I don’t read Callis or Manual because they’re dopes!
Betsy November 12th, 2010 at 10:35 am
WC, as we discussed last night, I am not happy at all with Montero practically being given the starting job – for many reasons. I was so ticked off I erased my DVR of the show without watching it; I didn’t want to hear anything Cash said.
*********
Betsy – Montero is NOT being handed the starting catching job. It’s his to lose but he will have to EARN it. You did yourself a disservice by not watching Cashman on Hor Stove because he said “has to earn” it at least 5-6 times.
LGY, I do not think Cervelli is an above average catcher……..in any way.
“WC, as we discussed last night, I am not happy at all with Montero practically being given the starting job ? for many reasons. I was so ticked off I erased my DVR of the show without watching it; I didn?t want to hear anything Cash said.”
Betsy, if you don’t want Montero to be the catcher, who do you think should be? You must realize by now that Jorge’s days as a full time catcher should come to an end. I see no reason why Montero can’t be given the chance to prove that he can handle the job.
LOL Fans are already upset at Cash’s comments that the Yankees will wind up paying Jeter and Mo as if other teams are pursuing them…………..
LGY November 12th, 2010 at 10:35 am
“Now, I doubt Romine is ready to start in the show, but a two things……”
***********
Excellent post. It’s time to bring the produce to market.
“LGY, I do not think Cervelli is an above average catcher……..in any way.”
——————————-
I just posted the average catching line from the AL in 2010??
.271/.359/.335 .694 OPS
His BA was 26 points higher than average and his OPS was 8 points higher.
By definition, Cervelli was/is above average.
Patrick, no – I read other boards and I remembered his comments. While I was there searching for the Callis stuff, I saw other comments.
LGY, I much prefer the way Patrick suggested – I don’t want Montero as the full time catcher.
Betsy
If you had watched the show you would have heard Cashman use the phrase “earn it” about 100 times and he never singled out Montero as the heir apparent.
Betsy,
From reading that quote it’s pretty obvious he was talking about Gary Sanchez, not Jesus Montero
The line in my 1040 post was Cisco’s from 2010
Pat, he also said (and I’ve read this a million times) that they are preparing Jorge to DH. Unless Montero craps out, he’s the starting C
“Does this mean that Jeter has filed for unemployment benefits?”
I thought the same thing.
Betsy -
You do know Cashman went out of his way to say Montero was NOT being handed the job?
Betsy,
Montero could catch 70 games, Jorge 60, and Cisco 30 and Montero would be the starting catcher.
You are reading too much into “starting catcher” and taking it to its extreme.
LGY,
Those stats are skewed by Cervelli’s very lucky first few months. You are also neglecting defense and Cervelli is probably a below average defender.
Patrick, you’re right – I’m not sure how I missed that the first time nor how I missed that now, lol.
Jeter just swung at the first pitch——DP ball—6-4-3….Gardner did not run because he didn’t have a read on the pitcher.
LGY, that’s not the impression I got. The GM basically told Jorge – he’s DHing (yes, he should prepare to catch some). That does not sound like the split you are suggesting above.
Yeah, technically the starting catcher for the Yankees this year was Cervelli. He started 80 games at catcher, Posada started 78.
Patrick,
Is Cervelli below average defensively or did he get screwed catching the mess that was the back end of our rotation last season?
He always got great marks for his D. I don’t think his 2010 defensive numbers are an indication of his true talent defensively.
Patrick, that’s right………
Yes Man
Jeter just swung at the first pitch??DP ball?6-4-3?.Gardner did not run because he didn?t have a read on the pitcher.
– LOL LOL LOL
IIRC, Cashman also said something last night about possibly acquiring a veteran catcher…which is where I got my wild idea about Buck being this seasons’ surprise move.
And Cashman said “earns it” so many times, it could be used as a drinking game…not that I do that anymore.
LGY -
Cervelli ranked 117 out of 120 catchers defensivly !! He’s Horrible !
Betsy
No. Cashman said he would also continue to investigate free agents and any trade that makes sense. The starting catcher will have earned his job.
Would he like Montero to step up and take the job? Yes. He’s a cost contained high offensive upside catcher.
Would Cashman try to fit a square peg into a round hole to make it happen? No. The Yankees propose to have a whole lot invested in veteran arms in the rotation who will likely not take kindly to an experiment as a receiver.
I think Cervelli was a victim of both inexperience and who he had to catch. He could possibly be much better defensively next year.
Betsy,
We don’t know what Cashman said to Jorge. Its all speculation….
“By definition, Cervelli was/is above average.”
This is more proof that stats are unreliable and can skew reality. As someone who watched Cervelli catch/hit all season, he was hardly above average. If he was, then above average has hit a new low.
Trying that Lee link again……………..
http://www.dallasnews.com/shar.....2b05a.html
LGY,
I’m not an expert on catchers but SJ44, randy and GB7 are. They all were very down on Cervelli’s defense this year.
I hate saying this . .But Cervelli has no role on this team . .
Yes he brings energy and he’s cheap…… But he can’t hit or catch. Whats the point ???
Posada – DH
Montero – C
A veteran that actually can throw someone out — Backup C
I could care less if Posada never catches another game again. The plan is for Montero to replace him and now is the time for him to get that shot. The chances of him failing are slim.
There is almost total unanimity among the professional Yankee scouts and development personnel that Montero is ready. They have had numerous conversations internallyand have sen this gut work his way up the ladder.
This is not debatable at this point.
“This is more proof that stats are unreliable and can skew reality. As someone who watched Cervelli catch/hit all season, he was hardly above average. If he was, then above average has hit a new low.”
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Laura,
How is it unreliable? AL catchers were awful last year. I posted their batting line and Cervelli was above it.
Did you watch every other catcher in the AL all season?
Patrick, this is from part of a summary of the show from the YES boards:
Cashman on Jorge Posada: Cashman met with Jorge the other day face to face, and discussed him being the DH for next year. “Our plan is for him to be the everyday DH.” But he will also prepare as a catcher if plans go sideways. Right now between the Montero’s, Cervellis, and Romines we have enough guys to “earn” a chance
Sorry for the poor typing. Eating breakfast lol.
Cervellis defense was bad this year but I don’t think it was because he doesn’t have the ability to be good. I think he had to catch too much for his experience level and consistently had to catch one of the hardest guys to catch in baseball.
Gary Sanchez has only had 173 ABs in profession ball.
The kid will turn 18 next month.
So…. he is a long, LONG way from wearing Pinstripes.
However, in those very limited 173 ABs, as a 17 year old,
his career averages are:
.329 .393 .543 .936, 8 HR, 44 K (Ouch!)
So yeah… it’s nice to fantasize about this kid.
“Sanchez is thickly built and has raw power to all fields. Early indicators suggest that he’ll make consistent contact especially since he recognizes breaking balls. He has a very project-able body and plus tools including a plus arm and plus power with the athletic ability to remain a catcher.
His agility behind the plate and his receiving skills are both solid, giving him a better chance to stay at catcher than most Latin American catching prospects. He has a quick release and scouts have recorded his pop times at 1.8 seconds.
His hitting isn’t as good as Montero’s when Montero was at his age but he’s a better catcher defensively. His swing mechanics are more advanced than Montero’s at this point however. His defense is comparable to Romine’s defense because he has the same athleticism and arm strength.”
Patrick,
Yeah I don’t know.
I just have difficulty believing Cisco forgot how to catch in one offseason. I thought he was very impressive in 2009 behind the dish, but maybe I was off on that.
Laura,
Also, isn’t the opposite? Putting aside defense, Cervelli outperformed the average AL catcher offensively, so wouldn’t it be your negative views of Cervelli skewing the reality of what really happened?
Cervellis defense was bad this year but I don?t think it was because he doesn?t have the ability to be good. I think he had to catch too much for his experience level and consistently had to catch one of the hardest guys to catch in baseball.
– Blake , if thats the case . .let him refine his skills in the minors He’s clearly not ready.
Betsy,
That is a quote from Cashman? Interesting…
Lets put it in perspective though. He said last year that Chad Gaudin and Sergio Mitre could win the 5th starter job. Yeah if Hughes, Chamberlain and Aceves drop dead they could have but seriously, who was he kidding? Now this year it sounds like he says Cervelli or Romine would have a shot at starting catcher. Total BS. Romine is not close to being ready and Cervelli is terrible. So lets forget the idea that Romine or Cervelli have any chance, it just clouds the discussion.
It’s interesting that Cash is saying Jorge is a DH. It’s not like Montero is a defensive upgrade. Perhaps the Yankees have decided that Jorge is too old to catch more than a handful of games per year. If you put him at DH full-time he will probably stay healthy whereas if he catches 70 games there is a higher probability of him getting hurt. Then I guess he could catch a few days when they play in NL parks or if they need him in a pinch.
If Cashman is going to let Jorge be the full-time DH and Montero is the starting catcher they will need a legitimate backup catcher. And, no Cervelli is not that guy. If it turns out that Montero just can’t work with one of our pitchers or is embarrassing himself we need someone that can pick up some starts.
“I just have difficulty believing Cisco forgot how to catch in one offseason. ”
Go with the “he must have been hurt” alibi. Seems to be a favorite around here to explain anyones struggles.
Cervelli Minor League Totals:
30 SB, 21 CS, 41% CS%, .988 FPct.
Brains had a TERRIBLE YEAR defensively in 2010.
But we all saw him run.
And we all saw him made some outstanding stops hehind the plate (inbetween the errors and PBs)
The ONLY reason he is in MLB is because the Yankees know he is a fine Defensive Catcher.
There is no explaination for why he was SOOOOOOOOOOO bad last year, but I will assume it was an aberation.
LGY,
Maybe I’m a bit too down on Cervelli. I think eventually he can be an above average defender with gap power. In 2010 though, he wasn’t. Maybe he’ll bounce back in 2011.
blake November 12th, 2010 at 10:48 am
I think Cervelli was a victim of both inexperience and who he had to catch. He could possibly be much better defensively next year.
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Tony Pena’s prime attention will be on Jesus Montero this spring but he’ll also give Cervelli special attention.
blake November 12th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Cervellis defense was bad this year but I don?t think it was because he doesn?t have the ability to be good. I think he had to catch too much for his experience level and consistently had to catch one of the hardest guys to catch in baseball.
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blake, I completely agree.
I do think he’ll be much better next year with a full year of major league experience under his belt. We’ll see…
I don’t know what is so hard to understand – Cashman was about as lucid and clear as he could be. Jorge’s days behind the plate are over – hopefully.
Think about the improvement to the lineup, which has no holes right now. Montero’s bat and Posada as a switch-hitting DH.
This is progress and I hope it works out.
He also said (Cashman) that they are looking outside the organization at catchers. Seems to me he’s covering all his bases. He also told Jorge to prepare to catch as well as DH. I don’t know what more you’d want a GM to do. He’s actively challenging his internal options to come to camp ready to compete for a job; he’s looking outside for help if necessary; he’s told his veteran he’s depending on him to DH, be ready to catch and who knows what else – I’m sure some mentoring is involved there.
What is the point of having these young players and developing them if you wait for the absolute perfect circumstances to promote them? And that goes for pitchers, as well. If they get Lee, and Pettitte retires, they have the perfect situation to give the opportunity to one of their own. It will never be a perfect situation. Never.
Patrick, I completely agree………………I still think Jorge can catch and it’s dumb to have him as a full-time DH at this point (if he can even do it). The Yankees are the only ones who think Montero is a C – and is he really better than Jorge? As you say, it’s doubtful. I really like your idea of breaking Montero in part-time…………… with Jorge/Frankie doing the rest. It doesn’t look like that’s in the plans, though.
Good point about the 5th starter/C competition comparisons. I didn’t even think Aceves had a shot……..
Cervelli made a lot of mental mistakes that can be attributed to his inexperience and at least part of his poor% in throwing out runners had to do with a big chunk of his playing tine was spent catching guys that don’t hold runners at all….not saying he was good last year….just that I think its reasonable to predict that he would get better in the future.
Yankee Trader November 12th, 2010 at 9:11 am
Jeter will remain a Yankee, but there were some Hall of Fame players who finished their careers with other teams, in their later years:
Willie Mays with the NY Mets
Joe Montana with the KC Chiefs
Michael Jordan with the Washington Wizards
Billy “The Kid” Martin and Hank Bauer. Bill Skowron and Jim Bouton. All “home grown” from the Yankee system. I’m sure we could find plenty more.
“I’m not an expert on catchers but SJ44, randy and GB7 are. They all were very down on Cervelli’s defense this year.”
patrick-
i’m no catching expert. someone like girardi is a catching expert. my good buddy stan cliburn, a former mlb catcher and mlb manager who has won over a thousand games is a catching expert.
but i’ve put in my time time catching and cervelli annoyed me from almost the first time i saw him. i never liked his overall game.
that said , he’s useful in the organization as a back up catcher. and maybe as back up to the back up.
he’s an insurance policy really.
as much as people love cano now, montero has hit about 100 points over cano’s minor league OPS.
he’s got to be given a real close look as soon as possible.
with an elite bat like it appears montero has, you figure out a way to get it in the lineup.
Doreen November 12th, 2010 at 11:04 am
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Superb articulate post. You get it.
WCYF,
Forgive me! I didn’t hear that quote, I have been very busy recently, haven’t been up to date on Yankee news. I didn’t know Cashman flat out said Posada was DH from here on out.
Good morning everyone,
I just caught up with this morning’s news on the blog.
It would seem to me that the Yankees need a really good defensive catcher a la Molina if the bulk of the catching is going to be Montero.
We also could use a Beltran for AJ if the Drs. give him a clean bill of help. He can be a DH, 4th outfielder, etc. I like that idea. He has a great bat when healthy. He would also strengthen the bench which could use a really good hitter.
The Yankees also need a back up for Teixera. At the moment we have none that I am aware of.
I’d be willing to bet anyone here that Posada will end up catching some games in 2011.
Frankie Piliere on Montero:
“Until he’s firmly entrenched in the big leagues, there will continue to be questions about Jesus Montero’s ability behind the plate. I’ve said it before, but Montero still looks like he has enough ability to stick behind the dish. He’s made some strong throws and has a good working relationship with his pitchers. Footwork, however, is definitely still an issue. He tends to open up on his throws to second, and he needs to improve on shifting to his backhand side to block pitches. Overall, though, his hands have looked soft, and the arm is strong enough to indicate he has the core skills to stick as a big-league catcher. He’ll always need to put in extra work defensively, but the talent is there.”
randy,
When it comes to evaluating catchers behind the plate you know a LOT more than the average fan. That’s why I defer to you (and a few others on this blog) when it comes to catcher defense.
“It will never be a perfect situation. Never.”
I completely agree.
They aren’t banishing Jorge to Siberia.
Cashman is using the hope for the best but prepare for the worst approach.
Hope for the best is someone other than Jorge takes the starting job and Jorge DHs. Preparing for the worst is no one takes the starting job and Jorge catches more and DHs less.
Would anyone here be upset if when it’s all said and done Montero’s career paralleled Mike Piazza’s?
He does not have to be the world’s greatest backstop.
It would seem to me that the Yankees need a really good defensive catcher a la Molina if the bulk of the catching is going to be Montero.
– SAS — i agree 100 percent
“Go with the “he must have been hurt” alibi. Seems to be a favorite around here to explain anyones struggles.”
Laura – I Bleed Blue November 12th, 2010 at 10:36 am
Does this mean that Jeter has filed for unemployment benefits?
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I don’t think that Jeter is eligible for unemployment payments. He only works part time so probably not enough quarters worked during the year.
“Also, isn?t the opposite? Putting aside defense, Cervelli outperformed the average AL catcher offensively, so wouldn?t it be your negative views of Cervelli skewing the reality of what really happened?”
This just means that the other AL catchers were worse than he was, which is quite an achievement on their part.
Although I fear that if I say Cervelli was injured someone will chime in and say “yeah maybe his brain”
Tom, thanks for posting that.
“I don?t think that Jeter is eligible for unemployment payments. He only works part time so probably not enough quarters worked during the year.”
Is that really how they look at it? He works full time for what his occupation is.
I would use Cervelli as a trading chip if anyone would want him. I don’t see him as a Yankee. What they would need to go with Montero is a defensive catcher. With Cervelli and I am sorry to say Posada last season, you always had to hold your breath and pray. We lost several games due to bad defensive catching.
This is the smartest thing I’ve read re Cashman’s quotes
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pat November 12th, 2010 at 10:47 am
Betsy
No. Cashman said he would also continue to investigate free agents and any trade that makes sense. The starting catcher will have earned his job.
Would he like Montero to step up and take the job? Yes. He’s a cost contained high offensive upside catcher.
Would Cashman try to fit a square peg into a round hole to make it happen? No. The Yankees propose to have a whole lot invested in veteran arms in the rotation who will likely not take kindly to an experiment as a receiver.
See you all later. Have a good day.
would use Cervelli as a trading chip if anyone would want him. I don?t see him as a Yankee. What they would need to go with Montero is a defensive catcher. With Cervelli and I am sorry to say Posada last season, you always had to hold your breath and pray. We lost several games due to bad defensive catching.
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-SAS– So true .. one of the main reasons why we lost to the RANGERS is because of our defensive catching ! . They got on and ran.. You can only use the excuse . . “well the pitcher didnt’ hold the runner’ for so long
I’m anxious to see who the non-roster invitees will be this spring in Tampa. Would like to see Betances, Banuelos, Phelps, and Warren among them just to see their bullpen sessions and getting in the early exhibition games.
Would also like to see Daniel Brewer, Corban Joseph, and Jorge Vazquez before they get sent out to minor league camp.
The Yanks lost “several games” due to poor catching? I doubt you could document that or even come close.
Poor defense behind the plate will cost you from time to time, but only extremely good running teams can make it much of a factor. If the Yanks can find a really good defender to back up Montero I suppose that would be a good thing, but if Jorge can catch 40-50 % of the time that’s good enough for me.
Last year Cervelli committed 13 errors and threw out just 14 % of baserunners in roughly half a season. With defense like that, he better be a slugger, not a lousy Punch and Judy hitter with a sub .700 OPS for each of his two seasons. SeeYa
LMAO!
BJK November 11th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan November 11th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
BJK – Do you have DirecTV? I’m in Southern California and get YES
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Funny you should ask about that.
Two years I switched to DirectTV for the SOLE REASON of getting YES. I was super stoked about it.
Sat down to watch my first game, watched the pre-show, and then… black.
Called up DirectTV, they said they actually can’t show the games in my area (Los Angeles).
I’ve since switched back to regular cable.
Did I miss something and you actually get to watch games?
*************************************************
YES can not show Yankees games outside their NY Metro area, due to a contract with MLB Network. If you have YES, you can get all the programming, other than games, but if you want to see the games you must subscribe to the MLB baseball package.
This can be confirmed by calling DIRECTV @ 1-800-531-5000.
The Rangers have enough spending power to add Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Texas is pursuing both free agents and has approval from ownership to boost payroll above $90MM.
Mlbtraderumors.com
Mlbtraderumors is reporting that Texas will pursue Lee and Vmart and has the go ahead to increase payroll to over 90 million…..well duh….it’ll have to go a lot higher than that to sign both of those guys and to give out their arbitration raises.
blake -
I don’t believe those rumors. Texas has a large debt to worry about, new contracts to keep current players, and have already borrowed lots of TV money just to buy the team. IMO, they can’t afford Lee and V-Mart. It’s just that time of year, and sports writers are out looking for something to write, whether it’s fact or fiction.
remember this about montrero, he’ll only be 27 when tex’s contract is up. he can surely handle 1b better than giambi.
by that time, gary sanchez might be the everyday catcher. or tony sanchez, you never know.
The Rangers payroll going into 2010 was $55 million. If they increase it to $90 million that gives them an additional $35 million. The Rangers also have approximately $20MM coming off the books with $5 million in increases to Ian Kinsler, Scott Feldman, and Colby Lewis.
That should give them approximately $50 million to work with.
Going into the off-season they have arbitration pending for a number of players with Nelson Cruz (first time), Josh Hamilton (second time) and C.J. Wilson (third time) being the most notable.
Brewer and Romine will be the big bats in Scranton in 2011. not sure if vazquez stays or not. Luis Nunez can go either way. He can start producing like Eduardo Nunez or he’ll stay a .250 minor leaguer. Good glove, though at middle infield, though careless at times. If Adams rebounds health-wise, he can flat out hit. Maybe some of the ones out of Tampa can move up by mid summer if they hit, like Mesa and Suttle. The two bats going to Tampa, JR Murphy and Rob Lyerly are mashers. I guess Heathcott will move up to Tampa, though he struggled. Maybe moving up will give him a challenge.
Arbitration raises alone will take them to around 60 million…add 35 million for Lee and Vmart and you’re at 95 million without signing Vlad or filling out the rest of the team. They would have to nearly double their 2010 payroll to bring both of those guys on board.
Laura – I Bleed Blue November 12th, 2010 at 11:18 am
“I don?t think that Jeter is eligible for unemployment payments. He only works part time so probably not enough quarters worked during the year.”
Is that really how they look at it? He works full time for what his occupation is.
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Always seemed somewhat lazy to me. He’s never held a steady job. He gets a little money in his pocket and then takes off for the winter.
blake November 12th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Arbitration raises alone will take them to around 60 million…add 35 million for Lee and Vmart and you’re at 95 million without signing Vlad or filling out the rest of the team. They would have to nearly double their 2010 payroll to bring both of those guys on board.
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They sure have enough for Lee though.
I don’t want to imagine Jeter wearing another uniform in 2011.
That is what we call a nightmare!
Somehow this deal will get done. I really hope both parties are just bluffing and giving the media something to write.
Here’s the Fox Sports article on the Texas Rangers payroll.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....nez-111210
LGY—
No doubt catching Burnett hurt his CS stats. I believe his times down to second are still very good.
He seemed to have some trouble with passed balls though…positionally, he wasn’t always sound.