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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Neftali Feliz, Buster Posey win Rookie of the Year awards

Posted by: Sam Borden - Posted in Misc on Nov 15, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Rangers closer Neftali Feliz won the AL Rookie of the Year award, easily beating out former Yankees prospect (and current Tigers outfielder) Austin Jackson. Feliz, who set the rookie saves record with 40, was named first on 20 of the 28 ballots cast. He’s the third closer to win the award in the past six years.

Giants catcher Buster Posey took the NL award, also getting 20 first-place votes. Braves slugger Jason Heyward was second in the NL with nine first-place votes.

For complete ballots, check out the official web site of the Baseball Writers Association of America right here.

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108 Responses to “Neftali Feliz, Buster Posey win Rookie of the Year awards”

  1. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    I hope a catcher wins next season as well.

    Announce it on Christmas…Birth of a new Savior.

  2. AldotheApache November 15th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Brox Jeers –

    Good post.

  3. Carl November 15th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Thought Heyward should have got it.

    How many votes did Edison Volquez get?

  4. whalers November 15th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    what a budget website for the bbwaa.

  5. Rich in NJ November 15th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    I’m taking the call option on Montero winning it in 2011.

  6. LGY November 15th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Two NL voters had Gaby Sanchez as their #1 and one voter had Jamie Garcia as their #1 on their ballot.

    One voter didn’t have Posey on their ballot at all.

  7. champ809 November 15th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    The sox only hope of trading for A Gone would be a package of Bucholtz/Ellsbury + and that still might not get er done if Texas gets involved as they could trump that package a team up Hamilton/Cruz/AGone for the next few years and own the AL West….

    imagine;

    SS Andrus
    3B Young
    CF Hamilton
    RF Cruz
    1B AGone
    DH Vlad
    2B Kinsler
    C ?
    LF Bourbon

    That would be a top 3 lineup in all of baseball….maybe THE best lineup actually

  8. LGY November 15th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Heyward was left off a ballot as well.

  9. DaSaint007 November 15th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Congrats to both!

    Jackson showed that the Yankee system has some good pieces. Kudos to Cashman.
    Rumor has it that Detroit may even consider adding Crawford to their OF to join Jackson. They may also be in play for VMart.

  10. hardwired7 November 15th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    good news for the Red Sox!

    they now lead the league in Buccholzs:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ivers.html

  11. AldotheApache November 15th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    LGY November 15th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
    Two NL voters had Gaby Sanchez as their #1 and one voter had Jamie Garcia as their #1 on their ballot.

    One voter didn’t have Posey on their ballot at all.

    ——————————————————

    And Joe Dimaggio, Whitey Ford, and Yogi Berra did not make it into the HOF on their first ballot.

    Just some random, remotely related trivia.

  12. Mell November 15th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    “Thought Heyward should have got it”

    Was sort of thinking the same, but Posey appeared to be a real difference maker for that team. Giants were 62-43 when he started and only 30-27 when he didn’t. He added some much needed offense to that club.

  13. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Mell,

    Thats not really the purpose of ROY. Heyward had almost the exact same slash line as Posey except that he did it in 200 more PAs…

    Posey played half a season compared to Heyward.

  14. Erin November 15th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Congrats to Posey and Feliz :)

  15. Carl November 15th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    # Mell November 15th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    “Thought Heyward should have got it”

    Was sort of thinking the same, but Posey appeared to be a real difference maker for that team. Giants were 62-43 when he started and only 30-27 when he didn’t. He added some much needed offense to that club.

    Do you think Posey would have got it if the Padres didn’t choke?

  16. tyanksfan36 November 15th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Man, Buster is making himself one hot commodity. At first when I found out my friend knew him I thought it would be simple to get his autograph. Now he has gone to win the WS and ROY! I’m really hoping she can come through for me.

  17. jackamir November 15th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    How about Jose Tabata getting 1 vote. I bet the writer is from Pittsburgh. He did have a sensational second half.

  18. blake November 15th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Heyward played a full season but Posey had the bigger impact.

    I think the Rangers blockbuster trade this winter could be for Greinke after Lee signs with the Yankees.

  19. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Rookie of the Year isn’t about impact, its not ‘Most Valuable Player’, its the best Rookie. Heyward is younger than Posey by 3 years, played the whole season, and had nearly the same rate stats (higher on base, lower avg, similiar slugging which is more impressive because he means he had more power)

  20. Disco November 15th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I’m not going to complain because the winners had great seasons…but it’s tough to find legitimate reasons to not give Heyward or Feliz the award—especially since the postseason is not factored in.

  21. Nick in SF November 15th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Tabata got a vote??

    Since when are cougar mom/wives allowed to vote for baseball awards???

  22. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I can’t find anything wrong with those selections.

  23. Pat M. November 15th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Bronx Jeers…Hey man how have you been ???? Heywood carried the load for the Braves especially when Chipper went down….A case of petty theft in my mind……

  24. blake November 15th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Jerkface,

    He also plays right field….not catcher. The way Posey gelled with that pitching staff was impressive…how he swung the bat was a bonus. I think they gave it to the right guy…..and I love Jason Heyward.

  25. Pat M. November 15th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Nick in SF…..I’ll be San Fran on November 26th thru the 30th…I’m staying ( as always ) at the Parc55, maybe we can catch a brew at Lefty’s ?? I have trouble e-maing you for some reason…..

  26. Tom in N.J. November 15th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    “Tabata got a vote??”

    Somewhere Brandon is shedding a single tear.

  27. West Coast Yankee Fan November 15th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    It’s just a subjective pick by sports writers.

  28. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Blake,

    Posey played 40 less games than Heyward, and played 30 of his games at 1st base. You’re talking about ROY for a catcher who played 70 games vs a RFer who played 140 games in the field and was a strong defender.

  29. blake November 15th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    Heyward will make up for the ROY loss in a couple years with an MVP.

  30. West Coast Yankee Fan November 15th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Over analyzing stats is not going to qualitatively prove anything. It’s the majority opinion of the writers.

  31. Nick in SF November 15th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    If Brandon kept his word and watched the complete Kate Hudson catalog after we won #27, he has no tears left to shed.

  32. Mell November 15th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    “Posey played half a season compared to Heyward”

    Posey did start 105 games compared to Heyward’s 136, and Heyward did have a 180 more PA’s, however I think it came down to who really had the greatest impact. Posey had roughly the same homers and rbi as Heyward did in those 180 fewer PA’s. Further, in a “what have you done for me lately” world, Posey was hitting 8 homers and driving in 15 in September while Heyward went for 2 and 8 over the same period while both were in a race for a playoff spot.

    Certainly don’t think Heyward is the wrong answer, but I can understand voters getting behind Posey as well.

  33. Mell November 15th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    “Rookie of the Year isn’t about impact, its not ‘Most Valuable Player’”

    Been plenty of times when MVP wasn’t about impact.

  34. Erin November 15th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Nick in SF November 15th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
    If Brandon kept his word and watched the complete Kate Hudson catalog after we won #27, he has no tears left to shed.

    *****************************

    :lol:

  35. blake November 15th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Jerkface,

    Posey had similar cumulative number despite playing 40 less games….and struck out only 55 times in 108 games. I think either would have been a good choice…

  36. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Pitchers also pitched around Heyward, his on base with runners in scoring position and men on is crazy compared to Posey.

    They both hit around .300 with RISP.

  37. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    End of the day – Ben Grieve won a ROY – the award means nothing if they can’t perform the following year.

    If Heyward is half the player he is reported to be then he’s more jealous about the ring Posey will get than this award.

  38. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Heyward walked 3 times as much as Posey, and he was 20!

  39. tyanksfan36 November 15th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    I think they made a great decision on both. I think that is how we will feel about MVP. Josh Hamilton and Robinson Cano are both deserving of winning it but only one can.

  40. Carl November 15th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Just looked up A-Rod’s age 20 season.

    Dadadadamn.

  41. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    For me there is only one individual award I care about a Yankee winning and that’s World Series MVP. That award usually goes to a player on the team that wins the World Series.

    All this other stuff – MVP, ROY, Cy Young, Gold Gloves are nonsense awards – meaningless today except in contract negotiations and arguments by pompous baseball writers five years after a player retires to determine if he belongs in what should now be called “The Hall of Very Good Players Who Compiled Nice Stats”

    Maybe that’s why I don’t care about the things stat heads find important, WAR or VORP or nonsense like that – I care about winning and losing and in most cases I root for the laundry not the player in it.

  42. Mell November 15th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    “Pitchers also pitched around Heyward, his on base with runners in scoring position and men on is crazy compared to Posey.”

    That’s a good point. Heyward was walked 40 times over August and September and had a .400+ OBP.

    Like I said, no real wrong answer in this case. If Garcia won, that would have been wrong. I see the arguments for both Posey and Heyward. Heyward is Montero’s age and already has a ridiculous command of the strike zone in the bigs. He’s got quite a career ahead of him.

  43. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    WAR or VORP or nonsense like that

    You mean those stats which give you an indicator of how important a player is to their team winning baseball games?

  44. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    I have no real problem with Posey winning, i think they are a good 1/2 on the ballot, but I think the amount of games played has to be considered.

    It’d be like Buchholz winning the Cy Young.

  45. Pat M. November 15th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Chip….Real nice post earlier……Driving range is calling me….8 & 7 irons today….Getting ready for March as SJ & I square off vs. Randy I & GB7 on the links……

  46. Carl November 15th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    I gonna go out on a limb and say,

    Montero will have a better offensive season than Posey did this year his rookie year.

  47. Tom in N.J. November 15th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    12 of 1 and 6 and 1/2 dozen of the other.

  48. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    Bronx Jeers…Hey man how have you been ????

    ——————————————————————–

    Pat M, Can’t complain too much how about yourself?

    I’ve stayed at the Parc55 a couple of times myself. I like it but that area reminds me too much of Times Square with all the tourists. Now I’m more of a Financial District/SOMA hotel guy.

  49. Mell November 15th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    “Montero will have a better offensive season than Posey did this year his rookie year”

    You should be thrilled if he equals it.

  50. LGY November 15th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    I still can’t believe Gaby Sanchez got 2 first place votes.

  51. blake November 15th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Yes there is no wrong answer really. Heyward is going to be a monster…maybe starting next year but for a rookie to come in and gain comfort with a pitching staff and have an OPS of. 862, I think that’s pretty good as well.

  52. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Sad day for famous troll Austin Jackson, who not only finished with a batting average under .300 but did not win ROY.

  53. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    Jerkface –

    No. I don’t care at all about those stats because as the San Francisco Giants just proved a winning team is often more than the sum of its parts.

  54. Carl November 15th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    # Mell November 15th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    “Montero will have a better offensive season than Posey did this year his rookie year”

    You should be thrilled if he equals it.

    Of course I will.

    I’m just going out on a limb here and saying he will top it.

  55. Pat M. November 15th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    Jeers….SMOA Hotel ????

  56. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    The 2010 San Francisco Giants were comprised of players who drive stat heads nuts – Pat Burrell, Aubrey Huff, Juan Uribe, Cody Ross – and yet they are champions today.

    Why?

    Because there are no sure things in baseball – Statistics are a nice way of attempting to predict possible outcomes but they are far from a sure thing. If you fed the stats of all the players on all the teams into a computer 100 times, maybe once out of that 100 it would have the Giants winning the World Series – but they did it. Why? Because that’s baseball Suzyn…that’s baseball.

  57. YankeeBlue222 November 15th, 2010 at 3:11 pm

    Is it just me, or is it incredibly lame that people on here email Sam and Chad about DeJesus, trades and other current things with the Yankees?

    If it’s real news, they will report it. I say leave them alone otherwise.

  58. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Pat M,

    SOMA = South of Market street.

  59. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Is it just me, or is it incredibly lame that people on here email Sam and Chad about DeJesus, trades and other current things with the Yankees?

    It’s probably lame but not nearly as lame as complaining about what other people choose to email.

  60. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    No. I don’t care at all about those stats because as the San Francisco Giants just proved a winning team is often more than the sum of its parts.

    Because as we all know, the Giants were a bunch of nobodies and not one of the strongest bullpens and rotations ever assembled with an offense that was league average which is one of the formulas for success in the MLB.

  61. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    Something just worth keeping in the back of our minds as we’re entering the silly season – both in terms of holidays and baseball.

    A lot of players have recently been told they are out of jobs – I don’t mean guys like Derek Jeter who are free agents – I mean kids who were drafted out of high school or college in the late rounds of the draft – signed for little money and have been riding busses in podunk towns for the last few years.

    Many of these players only had one marketable skill – either the ability to throw a ball or hit a ball better than many of the other kids they grew up with. They aren’t going to go on to become broadcasters or professional managers, they’re going home – many of them without a college degree – in their mid to late 20s with no idea of what they’re going to do now.

    They’re going home, after having made $20,000 or there abouts per year over the course of the last few years – many with families of their own to worry about. Dream shattered and absolutely nothing to prepare them for a life without baseball.

    They are going home in many cases to add to the growing class of rural poor. Kids who picked up a bat and a ball and hoped never to have to go back to the farm are going back.

    So when we talk about players who are washed up, players who are busts, players who will never amount to what they promised to be. I just want us to keep in mind that for many players this isn’t about endorsements, this isn’t about flashy cars or the latest bling – this is about putting food on the table and they’re going home this Holiday season without knowing how they’re going to do that.

  62. YankeeBlue222 November 15th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
    Is it just me, or is it incredibly lame that people on here email Sam and Chad about DeJesus, trades and other current things with the Yankees?

    It’s probably lame but not nearly as lame as complaining about what other people choose to email.
    *********

    Get off your high horse.

    I certainly was not complaining. Simply making an observation based on my astonishment that people do that.

  63. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
    No. I don’t care at all about those stats because as the San Francisco Giants just proved a winning team is often more than the sum of its parts.

    Because as we all know, the Giants were a bunch of nobodies and not one of the strongest bullpens and rotations ever assembled with an offense that was league average which is one of the formulas for success in the MLB.

    —————————

    If you want to go by the stats – then San Francisco had no business being in the mix for the World Series, certainly offensively.

    Keep believing that stats are the be-all and end-all – keep drinking the Kool-Aid, but the bottom line is that even stats can be wrong.

  64. I Like Inge November 15th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    YankeeBlue222 November 15th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
    Is it just me, or is it incredibly lame that people on here email Sam and Chad about DeJesus, trades and other current things with the Yankees?

    If it’s real news, they will report it. I say leave them alone otherwise.
    ——————————————–

    Dude It’s sad… I say go play Call of Duty Black Ops, hit the gym, go to a bar to pick up chicks. Anything but that. E-mailing about David Dejesus to a beat writer should be a sign of a lull in life. That’s just a waste time.

  65. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    YankeeBlue222 November 15th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
    Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
    Is it just me, or is it incredibly lame that people on here email Sam and Chad about DeJesus, trades and other current things with the Yankees?

    It’s probably lame but not nearly as lame as complaining about what other people choose to email.
    *********

    Get off your high horse.

    I certainly was not complaining. Simply making an observation based on my astonishment that people do that.

    **************

    I’m not on a high horse. I was simply making an observation based on my astonishment that people do that as well.

  66. Mell November 15th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Carl:

    That was not meant to be a snipe at you. Apologies if it came off that way.

    With regard to Montero, I think we have to be a little careful with expectations for 2011, especially if he does indeed end up doing a lot of catching. He’s going to hit at this level to be sure, but it wouldn’t shock me to see him go thru 45 or games of growing pains at the plate, like he did last year in SWB. Put on top of that the responsibility that comes with being one of the guys expected to regularly catch this rotation. It’s going to be tough. Heyward didn’t bear that responsibility as an outfielder, and Posey was further along in his development as a C than Montero will be, based on is age and experience. If he can scratch out a .280, 15-20 homer, 70-75 RBI, .335/.465/.800 slash, all while refining his game behind the plate, the year will be a monumental success, IMO.

  67. Carl November 15th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    All good Mell.

    So what do you guys think about Rick Peterson as pitching coach?

    He was just fired.

  68. Carl November 15th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=channel

    Rick Peterson talking AJ, Andy, and CC back in 2009.

  69. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    If you want to go by the stats – then San Francisco had no business being in the mix for the World Series, certainly offensively.

    Their pitching alone made them contenders. And the stats backed that up. Their offense had 5 players who were 20% better than league average. The Rangers only had 4 (but their best was better than the Giants best).

  70. BronxBorn November 15th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Chip:
    So when we talk about players who are washed up, players who are busts, players who will never amount to what they promised to be. I just want us to keep in mind that for many players this isn’t about endorsements, this isn’t about flashy cars or the latest bling – this is about putting food on the table and they’re going home this Holiday season without knowing how they’re going to do that.
    ——————————————-

    Very Perceptive Chip. Does put things into perspective when you think about it that way.

  71. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    So what do you guys think about Rick Peterson as pitching coach?

    ——————————————————————————————————

    Could be a nice complement to Girardi. Like a good cop/bad cop type of thing. :wink:

  72. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    I definitely want my GM assembling teams by drawing names out of a hat, since the stats the players put up do not matter.

  73. DaSaint007 November 15th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Chip – yes that’s the reality of sports.

    Every year. Nothing new there. Rural kids. Urba kids. International kids. So few manage to realize the dream. That’s why an education is so important. It’s not a gurarantee for success, but its a pretty good safety net when/if sports opportunities end.

  74. DaSaint007 November 15th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    typo…urban kids.

  75. BTX November 15th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    “Is it just me, or is it incredibly lame that people on here email Sam and Chad about DeJesus, trades and other current things with the Yankees? ”

    A simple visit to MLBTR will suffice.

  76. Joe from Long Island November 15th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Chip – you sound like Scott Boras. And I don’t mean that saracastically, or with any negative connotation.

    Some of their stories are heartbreaking.

  77. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
    I definitely want my GM assembling teams by drawing names out of a hat, since the stats the players put up do not matter.

    ————————-

    Didn’t say they don’t matter – but they don’t tell the whole story.

    Please, find me a stat that would have predicted that Edgar Renteria would have had the kind of series he did.

    Find me the stat that would show that Cliff Lee was going to catch not one-but two losses in the World Series.

    Find me the stats that tell a whole story without the help of the eyes.

  78. Jerkface November 15th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    Find me the stats that tell a whole story without the help of the eyes.

    Find me the eyes who will predict those things, no one will. Thats just the result of watching the game. The point of a GM isn’t to go, “you know what, I think if we make it to game 6 of the world series, Melky Cabrera will hit a pivotal HR, better keep him on the team.” Its to assemble the best collection of talent. And stats are just putting a number on what your eyes see so you’re not relying on a shaky memory to make your decisions.

    I could tell the story of Edgar Renteria’s HR with stats, using WPA.

  79. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Joe and DaSaint

    I don’t know what the failure rate is for late round draft picks, non-drafted players and international free agents is, but when we consider how high the failure rate of “top prospects” the kids who sign for enormous bonuses who don’t amount to anything in the majors (Eric Duncan, Drew Henson) is, it must be staggering.

    I will never argue with a kid opting not to sign as a draft pick and instead choosing to use his arm to help him get a college degree at a good school and then going back into the draft because the arm could blow out tomorrow – the education will hopefully serve him for a lifetime.

    A kid like Gerrit Cole might be the exception since he was going to get enough money from the Yankees as a first round pick so that if his arm blew out tomorrow he could still afford college, but it’s a long term choice and I respect it.

    But these kids – the ones who grew up in abject poverty, were given a taste of a great future and now are back where they started – no wiser, no richer, just older – it must be a crushing feeling like nothing I would ever want to experience in my life.

  80. upstate kate November 15th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Chip
    same thing happens all the time up my way…except it is hockey

  81. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Joe -

    Speaking about Boras – I know we as fans give him a lot of flak for trying to get every dime he can – but one thing I’ll never fault him for – when he has a high school client he always encourages that kid to go to college.

    Now – the reasons for that may be far from altruistic – he probably figures that there’s no point in a kid signing for 800k out of HS when with a little more experience he can get 10 mil out of college – but the fact is, regardless of his motives, he’s giving these kids the right advice.

    I remember in the NBA – a kid named Korleone Young. He was one of the first high school players to declare for the draft. Duke, Kentucky, UNC, UCLA – they all wanted this kid to come play from them but he declared anyway because some agent got in his ear and told him he would be a star.

    He sat in that green-room all night long, never heard his name called. Bounced around Europe for a few years until even the European teams wouldn’t pay him – no advanced education, nothing to fall back on…

  82. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Kate -

    When I have a son, I don’t care how physically gifted he may be…he might be able to dunk, throw 100 mph with his left hand, run through tacklers and skate like the wind – he’s going to college and getting a degree.

  83. LGY November 15th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    Chip,

    What exactly is it that you are trying to prove when you go on these anti-stat tangents?

  84. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    And when you think about it – in baseball – these kids are getting sent home with nothing at the holidays.

    It’s just really very sad.

  85. RSM November 15th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    No big surprises here.

  86. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    LGY November 15th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
    Chip,

    What exactly is it that you are trying to prove when you go on these anti-stat tangents?

    ————————–

    The only thing I said about stats was that I don’t care about them personally – I care about whether the team I root for wins or loses. That’s the only stat that truly matters to me in the end.

    And I’ve seen enough baseball to know that not everything can be predicted based solely on statistical analysis.

    I highly doubt that statistical analysis could have predicted the outcome of these playoffs. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with a GM and his team using stats to help them build a winning team, I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the people who bow at the alter of the alphabet soup that are modern stats – I’m just saying that there is more to this game, more to any game in any sport, than cold numbers. And there’s no statistic that can quantify it.

  87. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    In short LGY – I’m not trying to “prove” anything. I’m offering an opinion.

  88. yanks 27 November 15th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    there is a reason why ‘old school’ managers/gms are a dying breed… numbers are the way the game is headed. gms/managers are now younger, analytical types and the game is better for it. the brightest front offices in the game… yanks, boston, tampa, etc. are numbers guys…. the new gms hired lately – alderson, towers, hoyer, amaro, jack z, anthopolous, are all numbers guys. plus the beanes, kenny williams, daniels, melvins of the world.

    without numbers, cashman might be seduced by carl crawford looking at his HR total and reputation, rather than realizing he is only 1 win better (WAR) than Gardner at 15x the cost….

    numbers have enhanced the game. it does not provide any guarantees, but it is much more effective than the ‘eye’ test… especially in the game today with $100 million dollar contracts…

  89. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    And my original tangent wasn’t that I’m anti-stat – it’s that I don’t give a rat’s hind quarters about individual awards.

  90. MTU November 15th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Chip-

    I was going to yank your chain but I actually love you attitude about
    education. I did not want to go to college but my Parents insisted. I’m grateful to this day for the doors it opened.

    :)

  91. MTU November 15th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    “your’ not “you”. Proof my education was a failure.

  92. ac1 November 15th, 2010 at 4:18 pm

    the story here is the uproar when jeter wins an award voted by managers and coaches, but no one cares when hometown writers leave the obvious choice off the list for their crappy hometown selection, like the ones who kept hayward and posey off the ballot. Yes i am calling you our writers in pittsburgh…. and toronto for your ridiculous votes in the HOF last year.

  93. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    “I’m grateful to this day for the doors it opened.”

    ————————————————————–

    The “doors of perception” ?

  94. Nick in SF November 15th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    If there’s a stat that explains how Edgar Renteria is able to turn into a pillar of black smoke and scan people’s memories, I’d like to see it.

  95. MTU November 15th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Jeers-

    That was another type of education. ;)

    How have you been ?

  96. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    yanks 27 November 15th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    there is a reason why ‘old school’ managers/gms are a dying breed… numbers are the way the game is headed. gms/managers are now younger, analytical types and the game is better for it. the brightest front offices in the game… yanks, boston, tampa, etc. are numbers guys…. the new gms hired lately – alderson, towers, hoyer, amaro, jack z, anthopolous, are all numbers guys. plus the beanes, kenny williams, daniels, melvins of the world.

    without numbers, cashman might be seduced by carl crawford looking at his HR total and reputation, rather than realizing he is only 1 win better (WAR) than Gardner at 15x the cost….

    numbers have enhanced the game. it does not provide any guarantees, but it is much more effective than the ‘eye’ test… especially in the game today with $100 million dollar contracts…

    ——————————————

    Well a big part of the reason that old-school managers are a dying breed is because GMs want more control of what’s going on during the game. A guy like Billy Beane doesn’t want his manager to think – he wants him to execute.

    Why didn’t Cashman want Torre here anymore – it wasn’t the contract, it wasn’t the credit – those were ownership issues. Cashman didn’t support Torre at the end because Brian wanted a manager he could tell “this is how I want you to use Joba and Hughes” and know that the manager was going to execute that order regardless of whether it cost the team on the field. Do you think Joe Torre or Lou Pinella or Bobby Cox would have ever put up with that nonsense about having Joba start a game and then leave after two or three innings?

    As for Crawford only being 1 win better than Gardner – sure, last year that may have been true – but will it be true next year? Will it be true two years from now? I don’t know – Crawford’s been consistant over a long period of time, Gardner had a good season. If Gardner turns into Ben Grieve next year then it will look like a mistake not signing Crawford. If Crawford has the same issues with trying to live up to his contract that Vernon Wells had then signing him would be a mistake – but there’s no stat that’s going to predict that for you.

  97. ZMAN November 15th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    The people who picked Texas to beat SF were the ones using their eyes… Texas has higher profile names on their offense and they beat up the Yankees pitchers, they have the unbeatable Cliff Lee, and they have “mojo” because they have so much fun in the clubhouse with the antlers and deers.

    If people listened to the experts, that was the analysis that was being applied. Obviously it wasn’t based on advanced stats.

  98. Chip November 15th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    MTU -

    Same here.

    In high school I got some offers to play serious college football at some not so serious colleges – my parents convinced me that it was better to go to a school with good academics than a great BCS ranking.

    First practice of the spring of my freshman year – blew out the ACL in my right knee, first day back – blew out the MCL in my left knee…I still have my degree though and I’m thankful everyday that it’s worth more than the paper it’s printed on.

    Having said that – I still wish I had given greater consideration to University of Tahiti

  99. MTU November 15th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    Chip-

    I heard it’s a Bora Bora school. No real fun anyway. Climate sucks.

    Too far south.

    U of hawaii would work.

    :)

  100. MTU November 15th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Catch you all later. got to run.

  101. G. Love November 15th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    I’d really love to know if people really email Chad & Sam about Dejesus, Soria and Greinke or are they just using the posts people put up in here and calling them emails?

    If they are counting posts it’s one thing. If people are emailing writers about fantasy trades it’s beyond ludicrous.

    I just can’t imagine people emailing them about that. I’m hoping they are just counting posts because there are days on here where Bret posted 40 times about KC players he wanted.

  102. Bronx Jeers November 15th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    MTU,

    I can’t complain how are things in the GZ?

  103. LGY November 15th, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    “I’m just saying that there is more to this game, more to any game in any sport, than cold numbers. And there’s no statistic that can quantify it.”

    ———————————————————

    Chip,

    There is no one on the other end arguing against that point.

  104. MTU November 15th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

    Jeers-

    Sunny and 60 degrees. I got to run. I’ll try to catch up with you later.

    It’s good to see you around. :)

  105. LGY November 15th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    “A guy like Billy Beane doesn’t want his manager to think – he wants him to execute.”

    This is the exact opposite of what guys like Cashman want their managers to do. Cashman said it would be very irresponsible for Girardi to go off of “gut feelings.” He wants Girardi to think and analyze every decision he makes.

    “Why didn’t Cashman want Torre here anymore – it wasn’t the contract, it wasn’t the credit – those were ownership issues. Cashman didn’t support Torre at the end because Brian wanted a manager he could tell “this is how I want you to use Joba and Hughes” and know that the manager was going to execute that order regardless of whether it cost the team on the field.”

    Or alternatively, Cashman didn’t want Torre here anymore because he was an awful manager that wasn’t applying the same desire to the job the last few years he was around.

    “Do you think Joe Torre or Lou Pinella or Bobby Cox would have ever put up with that nonsense about having Joba start a game and then leave after two or three innings?”

    Joe Torre did put up with it.

    The original ‘Joba Rules’ were instituted with Torre at the helm.

  106. Erin November 15th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

    New Post: Yankees release 2011 ticket information

    :arrow:

  107. Noble Lucek August 22nd, 2014 at 10:15 pm

    Did the Jonathan Ames letter come yet? I signed up in January and i genuinely seriously hope I didn’t miss it. Is there a way I’m able to examine it if it did already come?

  108. Angelyn Mouldin September 1st, 2014 at 1:38 pm

    hibr /the pice the early corvettes are selling for is usually a big surprise to mebr /the initially several years for these carsthey did not handle very welland quite underpowered with all the six cylinder enginebr /fiberglass physique in the GM production car was new then and questionableit did do the job out effectively inside the prolonged runbr /my dads ideal close friend who was an Austin Healy guybr /bought among the to start with ones in 53 or 54and sold it very before long following the purchasebr /he was diappointed aided by the cars performance when compared to his Healy experiencesbr /go fiqure ?br /best regards tony

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