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Cashman notes from Tuesday

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Notes on Nov 16, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Wrapup BaseballBrian Cashman joked that he walked into a sword fight without a sword.

Standing in a room filled with media, Cashman didn’t want to talk about the details of today’s meetings, didn’t want to give his opinion on expanded playoffs and wouldn’t get into specifics about potential player moves. He talked quite a bit more about the search for a pitching coach, but wouldn’t say who or even how many will be interviewed.

The only juicy bit of information he provided was nothing but a tease.

“I’ve got a small player move that I’m working on that might get done at some point this week,” he said. “But it’s small.”

In the course of nearly a half hour, though, Cashman did drop a few little notes of information. Nothing huge, just a few nuggets to keep in mind.

ALCS Yankees Rangers Baseball• The starter-or-reliever questions are official finished for Joba Chamberlain. “Joba to the pen,” Cashman said. “We made that decision after spring training. We’re not looking to put it back. We told him in the spring, you’re a reliever now. That’s it.”

• Alfredo Aceves is healthy enough that he’s expected to pitch in Mexico this winter. “His rehab resolved,” Cashman said. “He was throwing bullpens (and) felt fine. We’re probably going to be talking about winter ball here at some point. He was trying to make it. He would have been a potential guy, believe it or not, to our surprise, if we got to the World Series.”

• Aceves never had surgery.

• Cashman is moving forward with the assumption that Damaso Marte will not pitch at all next season. “Whether (a lefty reliever) is available in this particular marketplace is what I don’t know,” Cashman said. “It’s certainly an area that I would like to have two lefties in the bullpen. I just don’t know if I’ll be successful or not.”

• That said, Cashman has no plans to dump Marte from the 40-man roster. He doesn’t think he’ll need that spot to protect anyone from the Rule 5. “You don’t just release a guy,” he said. “With our Rule 5 protection, I don’t feel like I have a roster crunch.”

• Cashman said he only way he could imagine a roster crunch would be if the Yankees made a trade in which they acquired multiple players, but he doesn’t expect that sort of trade to happen.

• Cashman said he has “zero” indication whether Andy Pettitte will be back next year. Pettitte told Cashman the same thing he’s said publicly: That if he had to make a decision right now, it would probably be retirement, but he’s not planning to make a decision right now.

• The Yankees consider Ivan Nova a legitimate rotation candidate for next year.

• Last year was the final year of Juan Miranda’s four-year contract, but he doesn’t have enough service time to become a free agent, so he’s still under the Yankees control. They don’t have to offer him arbitration, he will simply come into spring training as a 40-man player who’s out of options.

• Cashman listed Miranda, Ramiro Pena, Eduardo Nunez and Brandon Laird as players who could play a bench role next season.

Associated Press photos

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228 Responses to “Cashman notes from Tuesday”

  1. ac1 November 16th, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    maybe that little deal is a BIG deal. oh cash, you sly sly GM.

  2. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    If the Yankees land one of Lee/Andy, I still don’t like having Nova or another kid at the end of the rotation. If they land neither, a distinct possibility, I like it even less.

    I still can’t believe the Yankees gave up on Joba (who I don’t love) as a starter after 1 year…………What does that say for how they develop pitchers? I REALLY don’t get why they didn’t trade him for Haren if they are so set on him as a reliever.

  3. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    I hope the Yanks don’t lose out on anyone while Andy makes up his mind………..but I guess if Cash really thought that was going to happen, he’d tell Andy that he has to know.

  4. hardwired7 November 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    “I’ve got a small player move that I’m working on”

    now, are we talking Dustin Pedroia small or Eddie Gaedel small?

  5. Dylan November 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    Re-signing Marcus Thames?

  6. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    To the contrary, Chad, I think this is a lot of information.

    It’s not BIG, but it is good stuff, IMO.

    Good for Andy that he knows not to make a hasty decision; good for Cashman that he doesn’t demand one. This way, when a decision is reached, it is a true one.

    Interesting that Aceves never ended up having surgery. I’m both glad of that, and a little – worried is too strong a word – concerned, maybe? – that at some point that’s what’s going to be staring him in the face. However, it does sound really good that he may have been available for a WS appearance. Sounds good for 2011. I missed Aceves.

    That’s very interesting about Miranda. I have no clue about all these rules regarding service time, etc.

    I think it could be really cool if the Yankees could have a bench that doesn’t on its face look like much, but could be killer and could be their own.

    It really is sad how the Damaso Marte situation turned out. He was a guy that may here clamored for before Cashman got him, but except for his exceptional role in the 2009 WS, he’s mostly been injured. Ahh, you just never now. But good for Cash that he will plan as if Marte is not an option.

    And lastly, I wonder what the “small” move is….

  7. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Umm, “killer,” meaning very helpful. :?

  8. LGY November 16th, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    If Andy retires, I call the Braves up about Jurrjen.

    Not sure if they would move him, but Uggla is a lot of money for them to add.

  9. Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    Perhaps Cashman was expecting Haren to have a bad case of the suck pitching in the AL East.

    It’s wild speculation to suggest Joba was the lone reason that deal didn’t get done.

  10. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    How they handle Joba only speaks to how they handle Joba. I don’t think it necessarily says anything about how they’d develop the rest of their pitchers.

    We’ll never know about behind the scenes.

  11. Jerkface November 16th, 2010 at 6:53 pm

    Oh lookie, another thing I was right about re: Miranda

  12. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    GF, that’s true……..perhaps it was Nova that held it up – and I would still have done it. Oh well, what’s past is past.

    MP, I don’t know – they gave up on him awfully fast for a guy that did not have an AWFUL 2009.

  13. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    hardwired7 November 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
    “I’ve got a small player move that I’m working on”

    now, are we talking Dustin Pedroia small or Eddie Gaedel small?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Eddie Gaedel’s last appearance on a ML baseball field was the night in 1959 when he and 3 of his Martian friends “kidnapped” Luis Aparicio and Nellie Fox in front of a stunned crowd in Chicago.

  14. LGY November 16th, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Betsy

    It wasn’t Haren for Joba straight up.

    The ancillary pieces like Banuelos were important.

  15. BJK November 16th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    • The starter-or-reliever questions are official finished for Joba Chamberlain. “Joba to the pen,” Cashman said. “We made that decision after spring training. We’re not looking to put it back. We told him in the spring, you’re a reliever now. That’s it.”

    ——————————————————————————————

    So disappointing. This was a guy with four plus pitches that now barely has two.

  16. hardwired7 November 16th, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    if Ace can get anywhere near his 2009 form the bullpen becomes so much more stable.

    it’s always a roll of the dice w/back issues. take it nice and easy, Ace.

  17. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    LGY, I don’t recall Banuelos being part of it……if so, that was a non-starter.

  18. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    shocking news break.

    •Meanwhile, ESPN’s Buster Olney tweets that the Yanks are still waiting to hear whether Mariano Rivera wants a one or two-year deal.

  19. 108 stitches November 16th, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    hardwired7 November 16th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
    “I’ve got a small player move that I’m working on”

    now, are we talking Dustin Pedroia small or Eddie Gaedel small?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    With platform shoes, Eddie Gaedel would have been about the same height as Dustmite Pedroia.

  20. Ruby Tuesday November 16th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    2011 Yankees == 2008 Yankees Redux ?

    :(

  21. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    That’s BS. Gaedel in platform shoes would tower over Pedroia. It’s close now, and Eddie’s laing on his back, 6 feet under.

  22. Ruby Tuesday November 16th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    :(

  23. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    ***laying***

  24. Ruby Tuesday November 16th, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    More depressing news:

    Stocks Drop Amid Global Worries

    :(

  25. LGY November 16th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Betsy

    No one knows the exact details of what Zona asked for but I remember Joba Nova and Banuelos were the main names being tossed around in the reports.

  26. Jerkface November 16th, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Joba Nova and Banuelos

    It was like Joba, Nova, and McCallister. The sticking point was Nunez

  27. Ghost of Steinbrenner November 16th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Ramiro Pena as a bench player again this year is a no go. He’s a nice guy with a magnet glove but can’t hit for poop! Time for Laird or Nunez. Also, anyone know where the meetings are being held in Orlando?

  28. pat November 16th, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    Cute article on GGBG. I didn’t know his dad was a Philly minor leaguer.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.co.....team-.html

  29. BIG AL November 16th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

    The Yankees want to test Alfredo before renewing his contract. Just 2 weeks ago he was told he wouldn’t be throwing until ST, now they have him throwing bullpens, then Winter Ball. The Yankees don’t want to wait until ST to find out if his back is well enough to pitch. I don’t know what to say until I talk to him on Sunday. I hope they are doing right by him.

  30. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    The names being tossed around were combinations of Chamberlain, Noesi, Nova, Betances, Nunez and McAllister. The deal was contingent on NY also taking on one of Snyder’s, Heilman’s or Chad Quall’s contract.

  31. pat November 16th, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
    papelbon trade market is very weak. word is #redsox would pay a bit of his expected arbitration windfall in the right deal

  32. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    I like Cashman, but that’s just dumb.

  33. Bronx Jeers November 16th, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Re Joba:

    “We told him in the spring, you’re a reliever now. That’s it.”

    then…

    ” .The Yankees consider Ivan Nova a legitimate rotation candidate for next year. ”

    ————————————————————————————————————-

    I’m picking up a little bit of a double standard here.

    And Joba frustrates me to no end and I do think he made his bed but if I’m Joba and I read that I’m in the pen for life and Ivan Nova has a shot to make the rotation….I might just say F U Yankees – Trade me.

  34. BIG AL November 16th, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    Jeers -

    Joba would rather be in the Yankees pen, than starting for AZ, IMO.

  35. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Yeah, what young player wouldn’t want to be consigned to bullpen money when starter money may be available.

  36. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    pat, a lot of similarites in Papa Gardner and son minor league numbers/skills…speed and little power. I assume he’s got dad’s hairline and not mom’s.

    http://www.baseball-reference......rdne002ger

  37. TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    Bronx Jeers,

    I think that’s part of the plan. Play down Joba’s starter ability while bolstering a young prospects chance. Both give another team reasons for a trade possibility, thinking they can make Joba a starter, while thinking they have a great prospect in Nova.

  38. Ruby Tuesday November 16th, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    I have been thinking about starting an online news site.

    The name of our site:
    “The New York Depression”

    Our news slogan:
    “Depressing news for depressing times.”

  39. jackamir November 16th, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Cashman is a cliche. He always looks like he just came from a funeral. I understand his position and his need for discretion but lighten up…… You have one of the best jobs in all of baseball. The Boss is gone, no guts, no glory. Talk, Talk and more Talk, who is going to stop you when you have open checkbook…….

  40. Bret The Hitman November 16th, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
    Bronx Jeers,

    I think that’s part of the plan. Play down Joba’s starter ability while bolstering a young prospects chance. Both give another team reasons for a trade possibility, thinking they can make Joba a starter, while thinking they have a great prospect in Nova.

    ********

    This is a fine piece of interesting speculation blended with sound logic. I think you may be onto something.

  41. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:42 pm

    Constant whining about Cashman is a cliche. If he doesn’t get the player you want, he’s an idiot that doesn’t know how to be creative. If he gets a player you don’t want, he’s an idiot with a checkbook. Does that just about cover it?

  42. Bronx Jeers November 16th, 2010 at 7:44 pm

    BIG AL,

    $$$-wise? The bullpen is not where you want to be at this point in a career.

    Rich,

    Exactly

    TR10,

    I’m not sure but if you want to build a guy’s value up, downplaying his abilities is probably not the way to go.

  43. pat November 16th, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    Could Bill Hall be “small” and would it be wise to pay K. Long not to work with him? :wink:

    From Ken Rosenthal…..

    He isn?t nearly as big a priority as Cliff Lee, Derek Jeter or Mariano Rivera. But don?t be surprised if you hear the Yankees linked to free-agent utility man Bill Hall before the off-season is over.

    Hall works out in the off-season with Yankees hitting coach Kevin Long. The Yankees could use a veteran utility player. And Hall is on a list of free agents in whom the Yankees have interest, major-league sources say.

  44. BIG AL November 16th, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    Jeers -

    What I meant was Joba as a starter would never be a front line guy, so what does he think he’ll make as a #5 on a poor team, $6-8 million, maybe. Then if he fails at starting on another team, he gets crap. Whereas, on the Yankees he could get close to that starter money, have a chance to prove himself as an EIG, or even a closer when Mo leaves, and a shot at the WS each year. I’d take the Yankees, and hope to become their best reliever, and make my money that way.

  45. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Finally Cashman puts that Joba starting nonsense to rest. I am not going to blame Joba’s failure as a starter on the Yankees development skills or Joba rules, lots of teams limit innings to protect a young pitcher’s health. Ideal, no. But not enough to blame the club. I mean come on, what’s his excuse now for not being able to be an effective, shut-them-down 8th inning guy? There is none. He’s just not that good a pitcher.

    Joba did not have what it took to be an effective starter. The demeanor, composure, command, mental strength, mechanics, etc. The big mistake was not trading him when his value was higher a year and a half ago.

  46. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Joba didn’t fail as a starter.

  47. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Chamberlain in the pen may make more sense than Chamberlain in the rotation because of a couple of reasons….neither having to do with Chamberlain’s ability or intelligence. Mostly because NYY has a ton of rotation talent nearly ready and because Chamberlain seems to lack the stamina to hold up as a starter over the long haul and not because of the quality/number of pitches.

  48. LGY November 16th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    I could have sworn Banuelos was in the article on ESPN that said the Yankees turned down Zonas proposal. Either way doesn’t really matter.

    On a different note Hall would be a great pickup but I think he will be too expensive.

  49. BIG AL November 16th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    It appears Cashman is going to load the bench with more garbage like Hall. Can’t he do better? Hall is the last guy I’d spend money on, just look at his numbers the last 4-5 years.

  50. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    Sure he did Rich. Is he starting? No. The Yankees management and coaching staff made the decision that he failed as a starter. Call it didn’t succeed if you prefer. Call it what you will, he wasn’t good enough. If he was, he would be starting. I am sure the Yankees would have loved nothing more than for Joba to be an effective starter for what he is being paid.

  51. pat November 16th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Imagine how upset Mariano must have been being sent to the pen after only 10 career starts. They never gave him a chance and relievers don’t make as much as starters.

  52. LGY November 16th, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Hall would be the perfect bench player for this team.

    Not garbage at all which is why he will likely be too expensive.

  53. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    pat November 16th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
    Imagine how upset Mariano must have been being sent to the pen after only 10 career starts. They never gave him a chance and relievers don’t make as much as starters.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Mariano Duncan was a starter and reliever? Who knew?

  54. jackamir November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Joba needs to make a commitment to his body. He needs to be in better physical condition. Reduce his body fat quotient and commit body and mind to be the best he can be. This not only prolongs his career but mentally would make him more stable. He has the physical tools now the mental part of the game needs work…….

  55. TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Bronx Jeers November 16th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
    I’m not sure but if you want to build a guy’s value up, downplaying his abilities is probably not the way to go.

    ——-

    Bronx,

    You aren’t simply downplaying his abilities. What you are creating is the belief that Joba can be a starter for another team, not a reliever as adamant as the Yankees have made it to be.

  56. BIG AL November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Hall’s #’s BA

    2007 – Mil – .254
    2008 – Mil – .225
    2009 – Jays – .201
    2009 – Mil – .201
    2009 – Sea – .200
    2010 – Sox – .247

    This may be too costly? My God, he sucks, bring up Laird, he’ll put up better numbers than this has-been.

  57. mick November 16th, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    What is wrong with Hall as a utility OF/IF, seems perfect , at the right price.

  58. Bronx Jeers November 16th, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    BIG AL,

    I see your point.

    I too had hopes for him as the EIG last season. I even had a inkling of a thought that if Joba put up a year like Phil did in 2009 then Mariano might hang it up and retire believing that his heir apparent was ready.

    The Yanks let Wetteland walk when Mo was ready and I can just picture him not wanting to “stand in the way of destiny”

    I know…it’s a bit of a romantic stretch especially with 12-15 mil$ at stake for Mo but anyway it’s all moot as there is no “young knight” ready to seize the throne from Lord Rivera

  59. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Joba’s career ERA as a starter is 4.18.

    “The Yankees management and coaching staff made the decision that he failed as a starter”

    Yankee management also signed AJ Burnett to a 5 year contract.

    AJ’s is 3.97 and he makes $16m a year.

    Joba will only be entering his age 25 season, so there is a significant chance that he could be better than AJ.

    Plus, it would greatly enhance his trade value.

    My point stands.

  60. Ace November 16th, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Joba isn’t a starter. How much did u have to see?? I think the Yankees know a little bit about it. Have some trust.

  61. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    In major league history only two players have ever had the first name of Mariano and the Yankees had both at the same time.

  62. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Sorry for the delayed response re: Joba, Betsy, but I think with Joba’s 2009, it’s a case of looking at the numbers it doesn’t look as bad as it felt like living through it.

    A lot of his starts were pure torture. Some were blissful. Often, they were somewhere in between.

    But it wasn’t an easy, smooth year for him. A lot bumpier than Phil’s, even if the numbers end up looking similar.

    And a lot has to do with mentality. Short attention span vs. ability to focus. And I don’t mean to be derogatory regarding Joba – we’re all wired differently. That’s what I mean about behind the scenes, though.

  63. BIG AL November 16th, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    LGY -

    Then lets just state, our opinion on Hall differs greatly. I’ve looked at his numbers, and he’s worth $500K max, as an emergency fill in. What do you see in his numbers that make you believe Hall is any good.

    Not me.

    OK, got to go, catch you later. I’ll check back later.

  64. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Hall would be just fine as long as he leaves his ball gloves at home.

  65. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Why is Long working with a player who’s not on his own team?

    I’m not saying Joba is anything special, but he’s still pretty young. I can’t say he failed because he only had one season before the Yankees gave up on him.

  66. blake November 16th, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Kinda agree with Rich on this one. If the Yankees have an opening for the 5th starter next spring then I don’t see the harm in letting Joba compete for it. Not saying he should start next year or even ever again but to totally rule it out is at least a little bit short sided IMO.

  67. LGY November 16th, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Big Al

    You need to put that in the perspective of a bench player.

    He had a 772 OPS last year.

    It is extremely unlikely Laird could even come close to that right now.

    Hall would be a great bench player with his bat.

  68. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Joba will get his chance as a starter, just not with the Yanks.

  69. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    “I think the Yankees know a little bit about it”

    So our comments about the Yankees should be limited to whether or not a decision is:

    1) good
    2) very good
    3) excellent
    4) really excellent

    Got it.

  70. blake November 16th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Im still pumped the Braves got Uggla for basically nothing..

  71. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    MP, no, it wasn’t pretty – but how do you give up on a kid like that after one year? Both Phil and Joba had their bumps to say the least so I don’t get the idea that Joba’s struggles were any worse. They should have sent him down to the minors in 2008 so he could start again……….I’m not one to blame the Yanks for much and I think a large part of (most of, actually) Joba’s struggles are squarely on his shoulders, but after seeing what he could do in 2008, the Yankees just decided after one iffy year that he’s done as a starter? I don’t get it.

  72. Dylan November 16th, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    Bill Hall would be a perfect utility player for us. He is right-handed, and he plays RF, CF, LF, 3B, SS, and 2B. Plus he has decent power. I would love if we could get him for a reasonable price.

  73. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    That said, I don’t agree about Joba starting in 2011……or Nova. I just don’t want any kid at the back of that rotation (assuming Andy is not back)

  74. 108 stitches November 16th, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    In any of these proposals, you just don’t take a cost controlled young lefthander with high upside like Manny Banuelos and make him part of a deal unless it’s completely overwhelming. Even then there would be much afterthought whether he should have been in a deal.

  75. LGY November 16th, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    AL

    You are not getting Hall for anywhere close to 500K.

    If you could every team in baseball would sign him.

    He is going to get several million dollars and possibly multiple years.

    He made 8 million last year.

  76. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    Joba had his shot as a starter here and it failed.
    Plus there are others that are better, there is no discussion.

  77. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Isn’t it reasonable to assume that the Yankees professional baseball staff is adamant about Joba not starting for a reason?

  78. blake November 16th, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Mick,

    If Pettite retires and they fail to sign or trade for someone to take his place then who is better? Are they just going to give the spot to Nova, or have him earn it by competing against Joba, Moseley or whoever else……In that event I just don’t see the harm in preparing him to compete over the winter…..it could motivate him.

  79. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    “Plus there are others that are better, there is no discussion.”

    k

  80. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    “Isn’t it reasonable to assume that the Yankees professional baseball staff is adamant about Joba not starting for a reason?”

    Sure, but it doesn’t mean they are right. They make mistakes.

  81. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:14 pm

    Blake, either way, it’s not happening…………….as long as Joba is in pinstripes, he’s a reliever. They clearly have no desire or inclination to give him another crack at it.

  82. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    WC, that doesn’t make them right all the time. I’m not saying Joba would be great, but I have a real problem with them just giving up on him after 1 year that wasn’t even that bad.

  83. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:15 pm

    blake

    if Andy retires they will go out and get a FA.
    just don’t see them revisiting Joba as a starter again.

  84. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    That’s reasonable Rich, if you think they are wrong fine.

  85. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    I mean, even if Joba fails as a starter here, at least they would have given it their best shot. In a few years, he’ll leave and some team will give him a chance to start

  86. Tar November 16th, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    “Kinda agree with Rich on this one.”

    Me too. Joba would be a starter on a majority of MLB teams.

  87. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    That’s their job Betsy, to make player evaluations. They did the same thing with AJ before they traded him for Granderson.

  88. pat November 16th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    “Why is Long working with a player who?s not on his own team?”

    Because that’s what some coaches do in the off-season. Some coach winter league teams, some run group camps, some train guys individually.

  89. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    If the Yanks make some moves to upgrade the pen, Joba will become expendable this winter.

  90. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    At the time I hoped they’d send Joba to the minors, but they didn’t.

    Part of me thinks that stuff went on behind the scenes that we know nothing about. Whether that something was temperament, ability to focus, inability to follow a game plan, injuries or something else, we’ll never know. Maybe I’m kidding myself.

    Joba’s is a really interesting situation, I’ll say that. I wouldn’t be upset if he was traded, and I wouldn’t even be upset if he was traded and became a starter somewhere else.

    But I don’t blame the Yankees for this entire thing with Joba. He has to take some responsibility for not making the most of his opportunity last season.

  91. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    Me too. Joba would be a starter on a majority of MLB teams.
    ========================================
    Which is why he is expendable.

  92. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:18 pm

    WC ,and again – it doesn’t mean they are right or that I have to agree. Maybe he would have been bad- or maybe he wouldn’t……..but one year. It was one year………….dumb dumb dumb

  93. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    MP, I agree with your last point, but I really don’t think this speaks well for the Yankees. What will happen when one of the next kids has a bad year? To the pen for you!

  94. Bret The Hitman November 16th, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    There are injury issues to consider with Justin Upton…dating back to 2006 and as recent as August 2010.

    Justin Upton has missed the majority of the season’s final month thanks to a shoulder injury he suffered swinging a bat on Aug. 30. While the original MRI on Upton’s shoulder was clean, the shoulder hadn’t improved over the last month which led to the dreaded visit to Dr. James Andrews.

    No player ever enjoys visiting Birmingham, Ala. to see the good doctor.

    Upton lived through the experience and according to Andrews the slight tear in his left labrum has not gotten any worse, though Upton will not be playing any more baseball for the Diamondbacks in 2010. Still, considering this isn’t the first time Upton has had a problem with his shoulder, there is some reason to be worried about his future.

    The good news for Upton is, as of this moment, it doesn’t look like he’s going to need surgery to repair the shoulder, which would require plenty of rehab and probably cause him to miss at least parts of spring training in 2011. For now the plan is to try and strengthen the shoulder over the winter and hopefully the 23-year-old outfielder will be good as new come spring.

    http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/0.....-finished/

    Plus there’s some risk in his back loaded contract.

    Justin Upton of

    10:$0.5M, 11:$4.25M, 12:$6.75M, 13:$9.75M, 14:$14.25M, 15:$14.5M

    My top offer would be Joba + Gardner + Brackman + whatever we could get for Swisher in a separate trade.

  95. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    They obviously lost faith in Joba and saw his future in the pen.

  96. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    SJ made it sound like most scouts think he’s a reliever, so who knows what Joba would be doing on other teams.

  97. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:21 pm

    Where has SJ gone?

  98. Tar November 16th, 2010 at 8:22 pm

    mick

    I think the word is tradeable. Expendable sounds like you want to fit him for cement shoes.

  99. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    “Which is why he is expendable.”

    The Yankees don’t currently have a definite option for the 5th starter spot.

    Joba, despite the easily rebuttable claims to the contrary, was an effective starter given his age, usage pattern and level of development.

    That makes him valuable, not expendable

  100. blake November 16th, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    If they sign Lee and Andy retires then I don’t think there is any guarantee that they will go after another FA to replace him and I think Cashman indicated that was a possibility by saying that Nova would be a strong candidate for a rotation spot next year.

  101. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:23 pm

    Not every young ball player with potential gets there – the Yankees don’t feel additional investment in Joba as a starter is warranted. There have been countless scouts, development personnel, minor and major league coaches and management analyzing and working with Joba since 2007.

  102. Bronx Jeers November 16th, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    “Kinda agree with Rich on this one.”

    I was thinking the same.

    Maybe in a world where AJ is a true # 2, Andy was younger and a lock to return, CC didn’t have minor surgery and Phil didn’t hit as many cones as he did last season….Well maybe then Joba’s got a shot in the rotation for 2011.

    But I don’t see his current career path and the Yankees needs converging anytime soon to put him in the rotation.

    I don’t really have an issue with it because this is how it works if you want to be vying for a championship every season. But only on the Yankees does Joba have a season like he did in 2009 and then loses his job.

  103. Mell November 16th, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    “Isn’t it reasonable to assume that the Yankees professional baseball staff is adamant about Joba not starting for a reason?”

    Yes, and probably more than one.

  104. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:25 pm

    Blake, I know – and I strongly disagree with that. I hope that doesn’t happen.

  105. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    I don’t think one can necessarily extrapolate Joba’s experiences to a future young pitcher for the Yankees. Because each one is an individual and will handle the opportunity differently and may or may not get injured, and may or may not have the same difficulties (or any difficulties) in adjusting to the workload of a major league pitcher.

    I also think that circumstances were not optimal for Joba. CMW’s injury didn’t help. But I really think the biggest blow was the injury in 2008. It may not have been a “serious” injury, but it did change something about the way Joba pitches, if only to weigh on his mind or to make him more tentative – so not really a physical problem, but got him out of good habits, out of a good rhythm.

    Only Joba is Joba. So I don’t worry about the Yankees treating other prospects like Joba.

    Of course, we’ll certainly see.

  106. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    semantics. he has to have value , maybe more to another team, to be replaceable.

  107. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Bronx, that’s exactly it; there are just too many ? in the Yankees rotation for them to consider Joba or another kid in the #5 spot.

  108. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Joba’s trade value is at an all-time low. Trading low is not smart. It would be very foolish to trade him now.

  109. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    I would rather have Nova in the 5th spot than revisit Joba.

  110. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    MP, I also will go to my grave thinking they rushed Phil………..I don’t by ANY means blame them for his injuries, but I don’t think they handled what were supposed to be 2 crown jewels very well.

  111. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    And even after everything I’ve just said, I don’t quite understand how it would hurt for the Yankees to tell Joba – if you are in top form and ready to go you have a real shot at a spot in the rotation in spring training.

    Unless they really believe someone else has more “potential” and it would be more productive to let Joba be the best relief pitcher he can be for the Yankees, and not snuff out the dream of starting yet again.

    I’ll bet he is traded.

  112. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    If they don’t get Lee, Andy’s value will soar.
    Can you blame him for waiting?

  113. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Andy’s worth is pretty much limited by his (in)ability to stay healthy for a full season.

    If they don’t get Lee, they will empty their farm system for the best starter available in the trade market.

  114. Bx is Burning November 16th, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    It appears things are still the same in Rubyland.
    She still has no job or friends, and momma just bought another case of juice boxes.
    Good times! :)

  115. MTU November 16th, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    I think it would be advantageous for Joba to be traded.

    I think he needs a change of venue.

  116. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Andy could get another incentive laden deal.

  117. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Ruby has a mother?

  118. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    I think Cash is looking for a blockbuster deal involving Joba.

  119. MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    Betsy -

    I wish they were never in the situation that led them to bring Hughes up earlier than they wanted to. And yet, before his injury, he was pitching very well. The injury set him back a lot. But given the situation at the time (they had pretty much run through every alternative to Hughes before calling him up), I am not comfortable laying blame there. I bet if you held Cashman over a fire, he’d say the same thing – if circumstances were different, he doesn’t call Hughes up then.

    I remember there were people calling for Hughes even before he was eventually called up and Cashman was trying to hold his ground. They went through about 8 pitchers before calling on Hughes. And it wasn’t just that the guys they called up were not effective – they got hurt!

    But I can understand feeling he was brought up before his time. Still, he was doing really well…

    It’s water under the bridge, though. And Hughes has been a big part of the Yankees successes the last 2 years.

  120. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    I will give you two reasons why Joba shouldn’t start.

    1. His velocity drops to 91-92

    2. He has no command. He cannot throw the ball where he wants to.

  121. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Pettitte had a groin pull. That’s hardly unusual for a player or a pitcher of any age. Let’s not make out like Pettitte is an injury plagued pitcher that rides the dl annually.

  122. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    Rich, there is no one available worth coming close to emptying the farm for.

  123. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    In 2009 Hughes was one of the best relief pitchers in all of baseball part of the year. In 2010 he went 18-8 with a 4.19 as a number 5 starter. I think whatever the Yankees did it was just right.

    By the way, as a 24 year old, Phil Hughes has a lifetime mark of 31-18 with a 4.20

  124. 108 stitches November 16th, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    If Chamberlain is not used as trade material before March, he could find himself in a battle for a bullpen spot with Andrew Brackman then be used in a late March deal if Brackman simply beats him outright.

  125. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    Morning Person (love that name – I’m one myself!), I understand and those are all good points………..

  126. Bx is Burning November 16th, 2010 at 8:40 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
    Ruby has a mother?
    ———————————————-

    Sad to say, she had to come from somewhere.
    :(

  127. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    What does that say for how they develop pitchers?
    —————————————————————-

    They have as much patience as the fans. They always pat themselves on the back when one of their farm hands perform well but the minute they perform badly they raise their hands and shake their heads in disbelief.

  128. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Hughes is 24 years old. Most pitchers get to the majors to stay at 23-24 years old. A few before, a few after that. He was 3 years ahead of time. his only injuries were a hamstring and broken ribs. I’d say that at age 24, he’s doing just fine. He’s the least of the Yankees concerns. He was brought up because NY needed him…same as Chamberlain.

  129. Bronx Jeers November 16th, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    That’s right Betsy there are too many ?’s but my original point was that Cashman today seemed to be saying Joba’s never going to start for us but Ivan Nova’s got a shot.

    And I don’t care too much because I just want to see the best team possible but I did think it was a little messed up.

    Cashman’s certainly been on point lately with the cold-hearted comments. :wink:

  130. pat November 16th, 2010 at 8:44 pm

    If anyone told me we would still be having the Joba starter/reliever debate in 2011, I would have said they were nuts.

  131. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    Betsy

    How do we know that?

    mick

    Joba would be an incidental piece in a blockbuster trade.

  132. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 8:45 pm

    # MorningPerson November 16th, 2010 at 6:51 pm

    How they handle Joba only speaks to how they handle Joba. I don’t think it necessarily says anything about how they’d develop the rest of their pitchers.
    We’ll never know about behind the scenes.
    ———————————————-

    They rushed Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy to the majors and then banished them to the minors or AAA the moment they failed. How does that not speak to how they develop players in their system. Look at what happened to Mark Melancon

  133. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    “If anyone told me we would still be having the Joba starter/reliever debate in 2011, I would have said they were nuts.”

    So many thoughts, none of which are appropriate here (and not because of anything off color).

  134. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    Joba still will could value to a team like the Pirates.

  135. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    I think Cashman’s point today was to emphatically say there is no debate. But in fandom it will obviously live on.

  136. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    Somehow, the yankees will muddle through with sabathia, Burnett and Hughes. Maybe Hughes can win about 18 games and keep the team in most games, along with not walking the ballpark, throwing in a couple of strikeouts.

  137. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:48 pm

    still will have value

  138. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Joba would have value to a lot of teams because they would be paying 60¢ on a dollar.

  139. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Pat, it does seem to have dragged on, lol. I’m not even saying that he may not be best as a reliever, but the 1 and done thing is annoying. That said, if SJ was right, maybe the Yankees just lost patience with him. I don’t know if I should believe him, but he repeatedly said that the Yankees talked with Joba over and over …….and then there was that one time Jeter had to come to the mound and knock some sense into him. Maybe they just had enough.

  140. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    the yankees will muddle through with sabathia, Burnett and Hughes.
    ===========================================
    I doubt that would be enough…

  141. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Rich, how do we know what?

  142. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Well to be fair, Phil got his chance in 2008……and unfortunately got hurt. By the time he’d rehabbed, Joba had the spot in the rotation and they weren’t going to go with 2 unproven kids. They sent him back to the minors…….not the wrong move.

  143. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Betsy

    That “there is no one available worth coming close to emptying the farm for.”

  144. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    The Yankees got through more than one season with less starting pitching than Sabathia, Hughes and Burnett and two warm bodies and won.

  145. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    WC, I don’t think that’s really what we’re debating (starter or reliever) – at least, I’m not. The point that’s being made (at least I’m making it) is that perhaps the Yankees gave up on him too soon as a starter……I wouldn’t want them to give up on any top prospect this soon; it’s not a Joba thing.

  146. Betsy November 16th, 2010 at 8:54 pm

    Rich, who’s available? What team is making their stud young pitcher available? No, I am not going to get into Greinke..I mean aside from him.

  147. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Burnett is too much the question mark.
    Don’t forget the playoffs. That trio might require an airtight bullpen.

  148. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    Betsy

    I have no idea, but when you have the abundance of cheap, talented assets the Yankees have, you have buying power. I mean, you’re not getting Felix Hernandez, but I would think there would be, as Cash would say, “choices.”

  149. D-Man November 16th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    If they were so fed up with Joba’s “attitude” why did they never send him down to the minors after bringing him back up? Especially since he was a pedestrian relief pitcher last year, they were not losing anything by doing so. Because of his name/reputation? Robertson, Melancon, Edwar, Albaladejo, etc. all had very short leashes. Joba gets to lose multiple games and they still kept him here with no consequences.

    If Joba was as much of a problem-child as people say, they would have either shipped him away or humbled him by sending him to the minors and making him earn his way back… rather than guaranteeing him a full MLB salary (the prorated 10x salary in the majors vs. minors is enough to motivate anyone… they just handed him an MLB check).

    There was no rationale for keeping him on the MLB roster as long as they did, especially when he wasn’t even good. They basically are admitting they are content with him as a mediocre reliever. They didn’t even attempt to motivate him.

  150. mick November 16th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    Rich

    Cash could be sending a message to Joba to come into camp in shape or else.

  151. Yank1 November 16th, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    Burnett was the worst Yankee pitcher ever to make 30 starts. The team won 5 of his final 22 starts. They won inspite of him, not because of him.

  152. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    The only reason Hughes went back to the minors in 2008 was after being out for nearly 4 months was to get in condition to pitch in September. He made two every good starts in two appearances in NY. Not exactly sent back because he wasn’t cutting it in NY.

  153. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    GB is right though…I remember Turley, Maas and Ditmar. Throw in Bud Daley and you had a staff.

  154. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    BIG AL November 16th, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    Whereas, on the Yankees he could get close to that starter money, have a chance to prove himself as an EIG, or even a closer when Mo leaves, and a shot at the WS each year. I’d take the Yankees, and hope to become their best reliever, and make my money that way.

    ————————————————-

    But he doesn’t want to be a reliever or replace Mo for that matter. I seriously think if he was given the opportunity to start he would jump at that instead of relieving

  155. Yank1 November 16th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    “Cash could be sending a message to Joba to come into camp in shape or else.”

    Too late for that. What are they going to do if he isin’t in shape? Release him?

    They had their chance to get tough with him and send him to the minors and make him earn his way back… just like they did with Hughes, Robertson, Gardner, everyone. Instead, they placated him and didn’t make him earn his MLB roster spot and now they have no recourse.

    Everyone talks about how it’s on Joba to be motivated and such, why? They didn’t make him earn anything like they did other players. A trip to the minors would have gone a long way, IMO. Too late for that now.

  156. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    But those Yankee teams could hit…

  157. Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    I didn’t know Andy Pettitte is now the Yankee version of Andy Benes.

    I learn something here everyday.

  158. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    Yank1 November 16th, 2010 at 9:00 pm
    Burnett was the worst Yankee pitcher ever to make 30 starts. The team won 5 of his final 22 starts. They won inspite of him, not because of him.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    And Roy Halladay was a young up and coming stud and then the starting worst pitcher ever to get more than 60 innings in a ML season. What’s your point? He had a bad off year. sort of like about 75% of the team.

  159. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    I am not going to blame Joba’s failure as a starter on the Yankees development skills or Joba rules, lots of teams limit innings to protect a young pitcher’s health. Ideal, no.

    Joba did not have what it took to be an effective starter. The demeanor, composure, command, mental strength, mechanics, etc.

    ——————————————-

    So alot of teams do what the Yankees did in Aug/Sep of 2009. Long rest, normal rest, long rest, normal rest and then short inning relief starts. Oh yea alot of teams do that because it’s normal lol

    He was a starter for one yr the sample size is too small to determine he can’t make it as a starter.

  160. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Nice chat, almost 100% civilized.
    All on our meds?

  161. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    well we almost made it…

  162. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Those 2004 and 2007 teams weren’t exactly loaded with Cy Young candidates, either.

  163. blake November 16th, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    I feel like AJ will have a good shot at returning to respectability next year….if he pitches closer to his career norms and does so out of the 5th spot then that would be a big bonus. He’s never been great but he’s never been anywhere near as bad as he was last year..

  164. Bronx Jeers November 16th, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Nice chat, almost 100% civilized.
    All on our meds?

    ———————————————————–

    You didn’t hear about the peyote shortage?

  165. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Those 2004 and 2007 teams weren’t exactly loaded with Cy Young candidates, either.
    ============================
    And what did those teams do?

  166. austinmac November 16th, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Mick,

    Ford was also in that rotation. I am visualizing Lee in that role.

  167. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    he’s never been anywhere near as bad as he was last year..
    =======================================
    hope it’s not a trend…

  168. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    ” didn’t know Andy Pettitte is now the Yankee version of Andy Benes.

    I learn something here everyday.”

    Oh please.

  169. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    austin

    correct. without Lee we will be in trouble.

  170. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    austin

    don’t forget Ralph Terry.

  171. Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    # Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    ” didn’t know Andy Pettitte is now the Yankee version of Andy Benes.

    I learn something here everyday.”

    Oh please.

    ———-

    Your words were that Pettitte is incapable of pitching an entire season healthy.

    What are we supposed to gather from that claim?

    Health is a concern for anyone of Pettitte’s age, but the guy is hardly a walking hospital ward.

  172. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    AJ needs the pressure lifted off of him.
    Lee, CC, Hughes and Andy will allow him to be a complimentary 5th starter.
    You never know. He has always been at the forefront of a rotation.

  173. Red Lobster November 16th, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    “Whereas, on the Yankees he could get close to that starter money, have a chance to prove himself as an EIG, or even a closer when Mo leaves, and a shot at the WS each year. I’d take the Yankees, and hope to become their best reliever, and make my money that way.”

    Yes but what are the chances he becomes MO, or even good enough to close for a team like the Yankees? Much less of a chance than he does becoming a back-end starter.

    And with Hal in charge now, I doubt they are going to pay a non-closer $6-8 million. Yet as an average starter, he can get even more than that. Meche got $55 million with a 4.46 career ERA. Adam Eaton’s 5 ERA in the NL has resulted in $30 million. Jon Garland has a 4.47 career ERA in the AL and has made almost $50 million. Westbrook is the definition of an average starter and he has made $50 mil in his career. Joba isin’t making those numbers unless he becomes a special reliever. If he is looking out for himself and career, he takes the overwhelming probability of him becoming a decent starter over a special closer, especially in the NL where he can pad his stats.

  174. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    The ’56 Yankees had Ford, Turley, Larson, Sturdevant, and Kucks and on occasion, Byrne. The ’57 and ’58 teams were were. The ’61 teams dug out Sheldon, Coates, Terry and Stafford to go with Ford. The ’62 team had more of the same. Through the years NYYs have always pieced together a rotation. Ford was the only steady one and even he had a stretch from ’57 through ’60 when he wasn’t Whitey Ford. The late’70s were constantly changing. even the ’90s lacked a steady year to year rotation, generally losing or adding three starters.

  175. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Health is a concern for anyone of Pettitte’s age, but the guy is hardly a walking hospital ward.
    —————————————–
    Sometimes it seems like they need a mental health coach.

  176. TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Watch AJ have a bounce back year after dealing with problems he’s never dealt with before.

  177. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    You aren’t simply downplaying his abilities. What you are creating is the belief that Joba can be a starter for another team, not a reliever as adamant as the Yankees have made it to be.
    ——————————————-

    Didn’t the mets do the same thing with Aaron Heilman. Heilman was traded to Cubs with the idea of him having a chance to start but that didn’t happen.

  178. austinmac November 16th, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Mick,

    I will remember the 1962 Terry and not the 1960 one. One of my worst childhood memories.

  179. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    “Your words were that Pettitte is incapable of pitching an entire season healthy.”

    Re-read it:

    “Andy’s worth is pretty much limited by his (in)ability to stay healthy for a full season”

    I put “in” in parenthesis because it highlights that there is a question about his durability.

    “What are we supposed to gather from that claim?”

    That you either misread, distorted, or made stuff up.

    “Health is a concern for anyone of Pettitte’s age, but the guy is hardly a walking hospital ward.”

    Overstate much?

  180. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    # Ace November 16th, 2010 at 8:00 pm

    Joba isn’t a starter. How much did u have to see?? I think the Yankees know a little bit about it. Have some trust.
    ————————————–

    How can we have some trust in them when they have no faith in their players. How long will it be until Montero falls out of favor with them.

  181. Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Rich,

    You also used the word “limited” regarding his worth. That’s more than simply stating that his health is somewhat of a question.

    So, no, I didn’t overstate a damn thing.

  182. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    austin

    dont forget the 16-3 1961 Terry.
    right though, what was he doing pitching in the 9th?
    whitey was held to game 3 then on 3days for game 6.
    what was casey thinking?

  183. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Sometimes it seems like they need a mental health coach.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Only for the fans, some readers of this blog and the media.

  184. TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
    TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    You aren’t simply downplaying his abilities. What you are creating is the belief that Joba can be a starter for another team, not a reliever as adamant as the Yankees have made it to be.
    ——————————————-

    Didn’t the mets do the same thing with Aaron Heilman. Heilman was traded to Cubs with the idea of him having a chance to start but that didn’t happen.

    ———————

    Word to the wise…comparing the Mets to the Yankees is bad news.

  185. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    reenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Sometimes it seems like they need a mental health coach.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Only for the fans, some readers of this blog and the media.
    ==========================================
    What about AJ and Joba?

  186. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    And Javy…

  187. Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    # GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Sometimes it seems like they need a mental health coach.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Only for the fans, some readers of this blog and the media.

    ————

    Yikes. I certainly wouldn’t want that job.

  188. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Mac, Stengel lost that game 7. He started warming up Terry in the second inning to bring him in for the 3rd inning and every inning after that, he cranked him back up. He was gassed by the 9th inning rolled around. Everyone knew except stengel. He had run out of magic.

  189. austinmac November 16th, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    Mick,

    I’ll never forget 1961. Still the best year. I wore no. 9, played right field, hit lefty and had the same birthday as Maris. The only difference between us was the 61 homers.

  190. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Isn’t it reasonable to assume that the Yankees professional baseball staff is adamant about Joba not starting for a reason?
    —————————————-

    Was it the same staff that told them Javy wouldn’t fail this time or that Chan Ho would be a good addition to the pen

  191. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Giuseppe Franco

    “Rich,

    You also used the word “limited” regarding his worth. That’s more than simply stating that his health is somewhat of a question.”

    Really? If Pettitte hadn’t missed a start, or perhaps missed one or two, would he likely receive a contract that is greater than the one he is likely to receive? Of course, he would. He was having a CYA season and could have likely gotten a significant raise. So yes………his value is limited by the games he missed.

    ”So, no, I didn’t overstate a damn thing.”

    It guess it depends on what the meaning of overstate is.

  192. Vineyard Yankee November 16th, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    BIG AL
    November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Hall’s #’s BA

    2007 – Mil – .254
    2008 – Mil – .225
    2009 – Jays – .201
    2009 – Mil – .201
    2009 – Sea – .200
    2010 – Sox – .247

    This may be too costly? My God, he sucks, bring up Laird, he’ll put up better numbers than this has-been.

    ==================

    Thank you, no Sux rejects. Let some of our young guys have at it.

  193. BJK November 16th, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Joba may not be a starter anymore, but he WAS a starter and projected to be a dominant one.

    If anything, I hope he serves as a cautionary tale for rushing up prospects before they’re ready. Joba didn’t get enough innings in the minors, he had to learn on the job.

    He was rushed up because the Yankees needed help, and he was lightning in a bottle. Then they became dependent on him when his best interest would have been to send him back down and continue his development as a starter.

    Unfortunately, now it looks like he is what he is and a lot of us are left wondering what could have been if circumstances were different.

  194. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    # GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Sometimes it seems like they need a mental health coach.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Only for the fans, some readers of this blog and the media.

    ————

    Yikes. I certainly wouldn’t want that job.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    They’d be a Freudian dream come true, wouldn’t they? Everyone hates their father and has an Oedipus Complex.

  195. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Mick,

    I’ll never forget 1961. Still the best year. I wore no. 9, played right field, hit lefty and had the same birthday as Maris. The only difference between us was the 61 homers.
    ==================
    What team did you play for?

  196. Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Really? If Pettitte hadn’t missed a start, or perhaps missed one or two, would he likely receive a contract that is greater than the one he is likely to receive? Of course, he would. He was having a CYA season and could have likely gotten a significant raise. So yes………his value is limited by the games he missed.

    ———–

    Not exactly. If it was his shoulder or elbow acting up, you might have a point.

    But it was a groin pull – an injury that can happen to any player regardless of age (ask Granderson).

    It will have zero impact on his next contract if he decides to pitch in 2011.

  197. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    austin

    I’ll never forget 1961. Still the best year. I wore no. 9, played right field, hit lefty and had the same birthday as Maris. The only difference between us was the 61 homers.

    ======================
    The way you describe yourself you could be Ted Williams since he retired in 1960.

  198. TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Vineyard/BobbyCA, nice to see you post after I call you out being Ruby Tuesday. BTW, I think EVERYONE has had enough of your other character, Ruby.

  199. TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    I rest my case.

  200. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    forget what I said before about the civility thing you know….

  201. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 9:40 pm

    “Not exactly. If it was his shoulder or elbow acting up, you might have a point.

    But it was a groin pull – an injury that can happen to any player regardless of age (ask Granderson).

    It will have zero impact on his next contract if he decides to pitch in 2011.”

    It’s an accepted truism in baseball (all sports, really in analogous terms) that when you are 27 and hit 30 points below your career norm, it’s an off year; if you’re 35, it’s viewed as a sign of a decline. Jeter is facing it now.

    The same is true with injuries. If you’re still young, it’s a fluke. If you’re old, it’s the sign of your body breaking down.

    You speak with a certainty that belies reality, but whatever. It’s a free blog.

  202. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Mac, you know that you’re having a special season when you can stop Congress in the middle of a debate to announce that Maris had just hit #48 and Mantle hit #46.

    That day, Maris had a street named after him in South Bend, Indiana. They said it was a long drive.

  203. mick November 16th, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    =====>>>>>>>>> Next!

  204. Giuseppe Franco November 16th, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Rich,

    Using that logic, Pettitte would have been done 2 years ago.

  205. Vineyard Yankee November 16th, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Does Vinyard Yankee have one?

    ================

    Timmy, that was in response to your comment above which I responded to. I am not Ruby Tuesday you clown. Now go pick up your Mom down on the corner, she is still waiting for you from this morning.

  206. Rich in NJ November 16th, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Who said he was done, GF? Certainly not me.

  207. CompassRosy November 16th, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Didn?t the mets do the same thing with Aaron Heilman. Heilman was traded to Cubs with the idea of him having a chance to start but that didn?t happen.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    First they traded him to Seattle (as part of the 3-team deal in which the M’s acquired Gutierrez) and then Seattle traded him to Chicago (before he even threw a pitch) who traded him to Arizona the next season. Looks like Heilman hasn’t started a game since his earliest years with the Mets…

    btw ~ M’s hired Rick Waits as their Minor League Pitching Coordinator … I hear he’s not thought of fondly in general Yankee lore ;-)

  208. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Earlier I stated that rod Carew and Tony Oliva were going to be on with Bob Costas on MLB Friday night. My error…. it’s Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn. Gwynn wasn’t exactly Oliva, but still a fairly decent hitter.

  209. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    TR10 please stop polluting this blog with your garbage. It’s been a most enjoyable series of threads today, Yankee fans talking baseball with nary a harsh word until you showed up.

  210. West Coast Yankee Fan November 16th, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    New thread —–>

  211. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    # TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
    TR10 November 16th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    You aren’t simply downplaying his abilities. What you are creating is the belief that Joba can be a starter for another team, not a reliever as adamant as the Yankees have made it to be.
    ——————————————-

    Didn’t the mets do the same thing with Aaron Heilman. Heilman was traded to Cubs with the idea of him having a chance to start but that didn’t happen.

    ———————

    Word to the wise…comparing the Mets to the Yankees is bad news.
    ————————————

    Yea it is but in this case why not compare them

  212. GreenBeret7 November 16th, 2010 at 10:16 pm

    The only thing remotely similar to the Yankees and Mets is the city they play in.

  213. Against All Odds November 16th, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    lol true

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