One charge dropped in Leyritz trial
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 18, 2010 
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Former Yankees catcher Jim Leyritz had one manslaughter charge dropped today in his DUI case in Florida.
The charge of manslaughter while impaired was dropped after testimony that Leyritz was actually not above the legal limit at the time of the crash that killed 30-year-old Fredia Ann Veitch.
A defense expert testified that Leyritz’s blood-alcohol level spiked after the crash because he had a vodka shot to calm his nerves. His blood-alcohol level was tested at .14 three hours after the crash. The legal limit is .08.
Leyritz still faces a manslaughter charge because he’s accused of running a red light at the time of the crash. There has already been testimony that Leyritz was not speeding at the time of the crash.
Stop complaining .
You could argue that for a quarter of his starts, C.C. Sabathia was worse than mediocre . He just doesn’t deserve it this year — and I wish he had a dominant season as much as anyone here .
Jerkface November 18th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
For example, might the Yankees send Betances to San Diego for Kyle Blanks – an up and coming young RF in an actual deal of prospect for prospect?
Agree completely – the Yankees are weak when it comes to outfielders right now. No one looking at the system can tell you otherwise. Here’s a kid in San Diego in Blanks who hasn’t done anything at the Major League level but is probably a year away. The Yankees have a TON of pitchers – make the flippin’ deal.
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Shut up, Chip, this is what you wrote. Its not a concept. You are literally advocating they trade for Blanks.
I am perfectly open to trading pitching for a quality OFer, Kyle Blanks does not fit that mold. He is a guy that is going to need to settle at 1B or be a poor quality defensive LFer/RFer like Adam Dunn.
you want to trade Betances for an OF Prospect? Find someone that can play the outfield.
—————–
First line: FOR EXAMPLE
As in “Here are two names that I am using as an EXAMPLE of a concept”
“… tubes used in the blood tests had inadequate preservatives, leading to alcohol-creating fermentation in the sample …”
L.o.l.
Here’s a kid in San Diego in Blanks who hasn’t done anything at the Major League level but is probably a year away. The Yankees have a TON of pitchers – make the flippin’ deal.
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Your concept would be built upon players like Kyle Blanks, who are no good. Its the same thing. And you’ve mentioned him before, and he was the subject of all your posts today. The above quoted line is NOT a concept.
Nice try!
Are we debating theory now?
Conceptual art?
Chip
You may have started with a concept but it is pretty hard to sell that was your sole intention when you say “make the flippin deal”
Pretty stupid to not expect others to respond on Blanks in particular when you specifically say they should make that flippin deal.
Tom, I wish that some of these “gentlemen’s” parents had discussed the value on contraceptives years ago, instead.
I’m wondering if Cashman now thinks it was a good idea to have hired Kevin Towers and make him so privy to the Yankees minor league talent.
Won’t be any fleecing going on with AZ. They ain’t the Pittsburgh.
They ain’t the Pittsburgh Pirates. No dumping fringe pitching on them.
Pirates?
“I’m wondering if Cashman now thinks it was a good idea to have hired Kevin Towers and make him so privy to the Yankees minor league talent.”
Every team has scouts who are undoubtedly familiar with the Yankees system, as well as everyone else’s. Only edge Towers might have is a familiarity with what the Yankees happen to think about their prospects, and I can’t imagine he’d let that impact his own opinion or what he would ask for.
I wanted to address this nonsense that is being passed around that The Yanks are going to offer Derek Jeter a 3 year 45 million dollar contract AND if Derek doesn’t care for it he should shop it around…….My response is, You’re going to pay AJ Burnett more than me……That’s not going to happen, 3 years 60 million and a 4th year club option for let’s say a 7-10 million thank you pay off…….NY fish wrap writers are kissing some body’s behind, or just trying to out do the other NY sport writer hacks that dominate the Tri-State area now a days……I always blame Randy Levine because he’s a major league hump….
Wave
You are going to leave us hanging on your pitching metrics post
The Yankees keep the prospects that can help them and trade the oth
ers for known commodities. With their revenues they don’t need to trade unproven for unproven….let other teams take those risks.
gb,
it’s interesting that you think that brett marshall might be the best of the bunch. is that based on athleticism? stuff?
Pat M,
It’s just something for them to.talk about….like when they talked about Jeter’ s phantom hit by pitch for a week. I do hope they get it done soon though because the snowball is starting down the hill and the longer they let it roll….the bigger it will get.
I don’t know if this was discussed before, but ESPN reported that the Yankees offered Jeter 3/21 per. If true, and Jeter doesn’t accept, I’d be disapponted; that’s more than fair – it’s generous. It’s a good offer – I hope the Yankees hold their ground.
LGY,
I deleted it. The whole issue of pitching metrics is like trying to corner a blob of mercury.
“I don’t know if this was discussed before, but ESPN reported that the Yankees offered Jeter 3/21 per”
That’s a few yards beyond fair. ESPN is the only place I’ve heard that though. Leads me to believe it’s specualtion more than anything else.
Betsy,
I think.that was pure speculation by Wally Matthews….as far as I know.there have been no.offers made. The writers are just guessing and writing columns about it.
Pat M.,
The major upset of the baseball season would be if Lee isn’t in Pinstripes on opening Day of 2011. There are 4 players in the system that I wouldn’t move for a single offensive outfielder and that’s Banuelos, Betances, Montero and Brackman. I stll say that Brackman closes for the Pinstripers within 3 years. anybody else is up for grabs. I’d hate to see them lose Gary sanchez, though. For every pitcher they take, I’d remove one from the list of availables.
They need pitching (and a lot of it) and infield help in all spots. They want to move all three because of the money, and I don’t see Miranda being the total answer. Romine would be a great fit there. he has the talent to be an inge type player with a bat. He has the hands and footspeed for a lot of positions. If not, trade him for two other young talents if they are that satisfied with Miguel Montero.
Pat, the best of the bunch involving the young pitching just might be Brett Marshall. He’s the next really young one to watch.
WYH – i just wanted to respond to this from the last thread. I don’t really know which way you were leaning with this statement, but it irked me.
“You can’t ignore away the .9 differential in ERA, it reflects actual results on the field.”
You can, in this context, because the results on the field do not indicate anything about how a pitchers is performing.
ERA is a reflection of the contributions of the entire team, things like tERA, xFIP and ERC are a reflection of the pitchers individual contribution to the game. The results of the game are largely meaningless since the pitcher can’t score runs, chase down balls in the gap (a la seattle), or make baserunning mistakes that help him wiggle out of jams.
This is why people look for stats that seek to eliminate (or nomalize) the contributions of the players on the field other than the pitcher. It’s not to just be snarky and “new-age”… it has great purpose and is much more useful when evaluating players on different teams.
If you walk the bases loaded every inning, but get out of every jam you can have a sparkling ERA even though you pitched extremely poorly. It is an extremely misleading stat, and just like “wins” it doesn’t really say what went on.
What you can correlate from the data though, is that if a pitcher has a xFIP much higher than his ERA, he was extremely lucky that season, and vice versa (joba would be a quick and dirty example of unlucky). In this regard, felix had a very lucky season in comparison to Lee and Sabathia, as their ERA results were more in line with their actual contribution.
Blake, I’m not sure about that, but I guess we’ll find out.
I can’t believe I agreed with Dom LaGreca…….and Kay really betrayed himself as a first-class moron today. I don’t care if Price or Hernandez won – I don’t even like Hernandez – but Kay is blathering on and on about wins. He was up in arms about CC finishing 3rd. Not only is he pissed about Felix winning, but he’ s insisting there is an anti-NY conspiracy because CC finished 3rd. When La Greca brought up the fact that Price only had 2 less wins, but a far lower ERA, Kay laughed it off……….He then went on to later say, after La Greca asked him which he’d rather have, that he’d rather have a 25 win guy with a mid 4 ERA instead of an 18/19 win guy with say, a mid 3 ERA. I get the idea of not wanting to give the Cy Young to a guy with a middling record, but his argument was SO weak.
Good stuff, Pat M.
GB and myself were scolded by WCYF that Joel Sherman and Wally Matthews are two “professional and well respected baseball journalists” who know what they are talking about regarding Jeter’s contract negotiations.
That was some funny stuff.
I’m no fan of most of the reporters and beat writers. But Kepner (until this past season), Chad, Sam, Curry (when he was still at the Times) are/were the cream of the crop covering the Yanks.
WYH – “I deleted it. The whole issue of pitching metrics is like trying to corner a blob of mercury.”
This is a really funny statement to me, since they just figured out how to contain anti-matter like 3 or 4 days ago
Betsy,
And yet you still continue to listen to that buffoon.
I get more than enough of Kay during the season. I sure as hell don’t want to hear his voice in the offseason.
kd November 18th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
gb,
it’s interesting that you think that brett marshall might be the best of the bunch. is that based on athleticism? stuff?
———————————————————————————————————————-
From what I’ve seen of him, both. He’s just a great looking young pitcher…has the elbow surhery out of the way and he’s smart for a 20 year old. he’s not skyscraper big, but, he’s solid. about 6 foot, 200 pounds. has all of the pitches and comtrol. stays around 83-84 MPh and has hit 97 MPH.
“You’re going to pay AJ Burnett more than me……That’s not going to happen,”
Burnett had another team right there offering him $5/80. Thus, we paid market value.
$15 million is almost double Jeter’s market value. $15 million is a major sign of generosity for Jeter. $16.5 million was market value for Burnett.
Apples to oranges.
I don’t know why you listen to Kay Betsy… you could stick a fork in a blender and hear a more informed opinion.
Pat M
If it is a foreseeable scenario that in 4 years the Yankees would rather pay Derek such a large sum of money as 7 to 10 million NOT to play than to pay his salary to play there is no logical or reasonable way they could justify to themselves to go beyond 3 years.
I don’t care what Nolan Ryan said; until Lee agrees to put his John Han***k on a contract, it’s still up in the air as to where he lands.
This is Brett Marshall from 2 years ago.
http://www.baseball-intellect......nkees.html
GB-
Has Marshall recovered from his TJ ?
Amazing that he generates that velocity with such a smallish frame (6′, 180lbs). Guess he’s still got room to fill out though.
ID, I needed something to listen to at work, lol. I don’t listen to him a lot of the time………but I felt like having sports radio on today.
thanks gb. will he be in aa next year? or aaa?
score one for The Vodka Defense, I guess.
I don’t see how this case is anything but open-and-shut. just do your time and stop making excuses.
Mr. Franco, it’s always a great pleasure that you are back and in improving health……Note on Kepner & Curry, they wrote and or write for the NY Times…….Chad & Sam I’m only getting acquainted with…..Joel Sherman does get the inside on some Yankee item and is most likely the best of the NYC baseball writers but it’s a very weak division……He writes for the AL Central let’s say……
MTU, healthy as a horse and throwing harder with movement. They took it really slow with him this year. Trenton by mid-2011? Perhaps.
that’s a great brett marshall link. almost sounds like a right handed andy pettitte. i know that’s asking a ton, but we can all hope.
Betsy – the best thing about my new job is I don’t drive to work listening to Fatcessa (and at the time, Mad Puppy) and drive home listening to Steve Somers anymore
MTU, he’s up to 200 pounds, now.
Why not two years for fifty million for Jeter ?
ID-
I have to go in a few minutes and unfortunately do not have time to respond to your post in the depth I would like to.
I understand, very well, the limitations of using ERA, or RA. to measure pitching performance. I understand the arguments for using FIP, xFIP, tRA and similar measures.
However, for every limitation of ERA or RA, there are limitations of the context-neutral stats as well.
How do you know that measuring pitching performance based solely (or, depending on the context-neutral stat, almost solely) on strikeouts, walks and HRs allowed is more justified than measuring pitching performance in more traditional ways? I don’t think we do, yet. RMSE measurements of predicted ERA or RA performance based on context-neutral stats may be slightly better than that based on ERA or RA alone, but none of them are particularly good.
And, I’m not sure the underlying assumption on which all context-neutral pitching statistics are based – that BABiP off pitchers, not counting HRs, is random – has been established yet. Until it has been, to me context-neutral pitching stats are just another way of viewing the world, but not necessarily the best way.
So, when Hernandez’s ERA beats another pitcher’s by almost a run, especially when the context-neutral stats are somewhat in conflict, excuse me but I’ll take the ERA.
I’m thinking that he starts in Tampa, High A and moves to Trenton by mid summer. Just my guess, though. He could force his way to open in Trenton.
GB-
Ramirez, Marshall, DePaula. The next wave ?
Thanks, Pat.
Appreciate the kind thoughts.
Yeah, Curry wrote for the Times for a long time until his buyout last year. He certainly was a great addition to the YES team.
I think Kepner did good job as well when he covered the Yanks. Didn’t read much of his successor this past season at the Times.
ID, what do you listen to – or is your ride home that short? LOL I work 10 min. from home, so I generally listen to music. I’m tired of talking about Jeter and contracts, I refuse to listen to Met talk and unless they talk Bear football, at this point, football doesn’t interest me that much either.
Giuseppe Franco November 18th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Good stuff, Pat M.GB and myself were scolded by WCYF that Joel Sherman and Wally Matthews are two “professional and well respected baseball journalists” who know what they are talking about regarding Jeter’s contract negotiations.
That was some funny stuff. I’m no fan of most of the reporters and beat writers. But Kepner (until this past season), Chad, Sam, Curry (when he was still at the Times) are/were the cream of the crop covering the Yanks.
***************************
Not scolded GF, educated. You are just another guy, like me, and hundreds others, who participate on a sports blog with no access to players or management.
That stands in stark contrast to Joel Sherman whose credentials and resumé are outstanding. Take a look for yourself:
Joel Sherman has been at the Post since 1989, serving as Yankees beat writer from 1989-95 and baseball columnist since 1996. His Hardball blog won a 2008 Best Sports Blog honor from the Associated Press Managing Editors Association.
Joel’s books include “Birth of a Dynasty, Behind the Pinstripes with the 1996 Yankees.” He served as a weekly baseball analyst on New York 1 from 2000-05, was a regular contributor on the MSG Network from 2000-08, and was part of the My 9 Yankees postgame show for the past two seasons.
He graduated from NYU in 1985.
MTU, Ramirez kind of took a little step back, but, he’s so young, he could explode up the ladder.
“Educated”? LMAO. cutting and pasting some fluff piece on your uncle isn’t educating anybody.
LGY……I wish there was a way for me to open a file on some of the detractors here at the LoHud….The file would include Phillip Hughes, Mark Texeria, Curtis Granderson, now Derek Jeter, just to start with……Then to repost the real A + comments to expose the absurdity of the bandwagoners that go on these rants……..I look forward to next October when a healthy Derek Jeter shows up……I do place a value on the fact that he is this generations Babe, Lou, Joe D. & The Mick, however I still see his value to the club as a ballplayer and the heart and soul of the Yankees……Re-up him at the same salary for 3 years and offer him a 4th year with a club option…….I’m on the record that in the end, this is close to what will be…..
Joel Sherman and Wally Matthews are not in the same class, stop lumping together and acting like anyone defended Matthews. No one did. The criticism was about Sherman.
Joel Sherman is a good reporter and has lots of scoops and his opinions are usually not trash. Wallace Matthews is human garbage.
“Best sports Blog Of 2008″. Is that why he stopped answering questions on it? Because people were laughing at him and calling him an idiot?
GB-
Even with the potential for BP use and attrition I am a bit concerned about what we are going to do with all the arms approaching the upper levels.
Aside from the Killer B’s we have Phelps, Warren, and others.
That is why I am somewhat in a agreement with Chip in wanting to find additional ways to thin the herd.
We really need to start making some trades. We try our best to keep the very hi-end guys but should begin to move some of the rest.
I was a bit surprised that Z-Mac had fallen so far out of favor that they traded him for a schlub like Kearns.
That’s not what I’m talkin’ about. We should be able to do better.
By the way, I still think Z-Mac will be a serviceable ML Pitcher.
Pat M, I don’t think you’re saying that they don’t, but people have the right to their opinions………..so I don’t think labeling them as detractors is very fair (unless the blog is only for people who have 100% positive things to say)
WCYF….And Sherman lettered in badminton……I said he is probably the one NYC writer that has a finger on the pulse in the Bronx…..However he has become the Post sport’s equivalent of the papers page 6……
We need to trade for younger position prospects
GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
“Educated”? LMAO. cutting and pasting some fluff piece on your uncle isn’t educating anybody.
**************
First of all he is not my uncle, I have no personal relationship with Sherman at all. Second of all, cutting and pasting is how one posts someone’s bio online. Third of all, a bio is a factual representation of someone’s history and therefore by definition can not be called a fluff piece – at least not by anyone with any intelligence.
Pat M
In this case you are actually the one indicting Jeter.
You think the Yankees should give him a 7 to 10 million buyout 4th year option.
You are basically saying it is realistic that Jeter would be literally such a bad baseball player in 4 year that the Yankees would rather pay him 30 to 50% of his salary just so they wouldn’t have to put him on the roster and pay him.
Pat M. November 18th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
WCYF….And Sherman lettered in badminton……I said he is probably the one NYC writer that has a finger on the pulse in the Bronx…..However he has become the Post sport’s equivalent of the papers page 6……
**************
That’s fair of you to criticize him if you think he has regressed. This isn’t directed at you but I find it amusing how intensely some bloggers rip into writers who actually have access to players and management and the clubhouse, etc. Compared to bloggers who have access to zip, nothing, nada. zilch and don’t know jack in comparison.
If the Yankees give Derek a significant buyout option it is a very bad sign for how they think he will age and a very bad sign for this team.
betsy – i used to drive about 30 mins each way, now i work 3 minutes up the road or… from home
but even then, 30 minutes was about all i could take of the madness.
LGY-
Why not just sit back and wait to SEE what happens ?
If it doesn’t go the way you want then argue about it.
As it stands no one really knows what’s going to transpire. Even the participants.
Betsy…..The point I’m attempting to illustrate, is that in many cases some here go on these popular in the majority and grandstand only to quietly slip on the back of the bandwagon and disappear into the crowd with the other bandwagoneers…….A year from now, everyone will be loving The Captain……The greatest example is how everyone loves Hughes and is ragging on Joba……You know this quite well that just 2 years ago the popular viewpoint was very much the opposite….Just look at Curtis Granderson this season, or Mark Texeria last April and how he was a bum………Loyality is a lost character trait that is the NY Yankee fan of today…..
This is from the Yankee U blog………..don’t know if it’s serious:
@TheYankeeU A friend of a friend in the Boston front office: The Sox are “very close” to acquiring Justin Upton. Take it for what its worth.
this is misreported a little bit. leyritz did not have a shot of vodka after the crash to calm his nerves. according to the article,
“He also testified that because Leyritz downed a last vodka shot moments before the collision, his alcohol level actually rose after the crash—and was below Florida’s limit when the vehicles collided.”
“We need to trade for younger position prospects”
To do that, you have to be willing to part with your top pitching prospects. If Hughes, Betances, Banulous, etc. are off the table, what is there to trade? No one is trading a top hitting prospect for a Warren, Brackman, or Nova.
Think how differently this whole Jeter story would have been playing out if he didn’t have such a mediocre season in 2009.
MTU – this place would be very boring without speculation.
sic 2010
yankeefeminista November 18th, 2010
I’m not dealing Betances unless someone absolutely blew me away, and not for a COF. As for OF’ers, why do we need to deal a pitcher for an OF’er? Sure I would like to improve it, but we have the OF set for next year, esp. if Grandy brings his latest K-Long swing to the full season. & as we keep hearing, IF we don’t sign Lee we will go hard after Crawford. Meanwhile, it is only true that we lack imminently mlb-ready OF’s; however, we are stockpiled with OF’ing prospects in the system. Cash has been stockpiling outfielders, both CF’s and COF’s right behind pitchers and catchers. Beyond Heathcott and Mesa, we have some very high end IFA OF prospects. Give us 2-3 years and we will have a load of talent there, near, if not, mlb-ready. I am excited to see how Ramon Flores progresses next year, and Eduardo Sosa, among others, and De Leon had a nice Instructs, showing great power, although his K rates are scary.
Pat M, I agree……….but I think you have to discern between the trolls who are bipolar and the regular posters who’ve honestly had changes of heart. The Curtis Granderson thing was a joke ………they judged him after about 3 weeks. I feel Jeter is being harshly criticized as well………..I generally stay away from threads about him on message boards because it’s hard for me to read such comments about players I love. Tex is a great guy and a very good player, but it’s possible to criticize him (or anyone) without disliking him/them.
“If the Yankees give Derek a significant buyout option it is a very bad sign for how they think he will age and a very bad sign for this team.”
Yeah, any kind of large buyout of an option year in a contract shows they are anticipating a large decline, so they will basically pay him to go away in the last year.
3 years is more than generous.
If the Sox are very close to acquiring Upton then Buchholtz should be packing his bags for the desert……along with several others.
Matthews more often than not seems to want to raise the dander up, if you will. For someone who covers the Yankees, you’d think that at least one of every 5 times you’d get a more positive spin.
Joel Sherman is one of those guys that mostly I just don’t like something about him, but more times than not his articles seem more fairly spun, if you will.
But both are more of the sensationalistic variety.
I prefer Marc Carig of the Star Ledger and Dan Castellano (also Star Ledger before he left). I always appreciated Ty Kepner’s and Jack Curry’s articles as well. It wasn’t because they were cheerleaders – it was and is because I feel their writing is expository and even-handed. Criticism without sensationalism and not unrealistically rah-rah either. I felt I could trust their writing.
It’s a fine line, I’ll admit, sometimes. But usually it comes down to the word choice and positioning, which gives an insight to the writer’s intent.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....Mxwl9vCuxN
I continue to sense that the Yankees like Justin Upton, but do not see the outfield as a place to invest a big chunk of their prospect base to acquire. And as one NL official told me last night, “(Arizona GM) Kevin (Towers) is asking for a ton (for Upton) and he should.”
Yes, there is electricity about Upton’s game. He has power and speed and plays with ferocity. There is a menace to his swing that reminds me of Gary Sheffield. The way he is built and how hard he goes at it conjures image of a middle linebacker as much as an outfielder. His power is raw and awesome. When he squares a ball, it travels. I think it is conceivable that he is about to enter his prime and start a five-to-eight-year run as a 40-homer guy.
But the Yanks actually like the diversity and production of their outfield: Brett Gardner, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher. Upton is almost certainly a long-term upgrade. But is it enough to, say, give up Jesus Montero plus three to four other B-plus-to-better prospects?
It is tempting. Upton is just 23. He is locked into a reasonable contract (five years at $49.5 million left). But if the Yanks use prospect assets on Upton and there is a breakdown somewhere else would the Yanks beat themselves up for upgrading a relatively strong position and then not having the elements left to fix a weakness?
***********
I agree completely………..I’m just not jonesing for Upton, but I admit I would hate it if the Sox got him
ID-
I agree. I engage in some of it myself.
My point to LGY was that he is arguing in a vacuum and anyone who has been watching is pretty clear on his POV.
He’s really spinning his wheels. I just wondered if might want to let off the throttle a bit.
Just a suggestion. Not a demand. If he doesn’t I’m sure he’ll let me know.
EA, I guess that’s true……..their farm system has almost no position players short of the catchers and Heathcott. I’m not saying they need to get stars, but they can probably trade some decent arms for decent/solid OFers
Blake-
I’d bet on that too. Pillsbury and Bard sure aint gonna get it IMO.
MTU, my guess is that with this cornacpoia of catchers and pitchers, NYYs will lose some to injury and ineffectiveness, trade some, move some pitchers to the pen and trade the catching or reposition them. Burnett has two years before most of the kids start rushing the door, Pettitte will be gone and some will fill spot starter/long man duties. The most will not stay yankees, though. Maybe 2 out of every 5 and 2 catchers. Redo load the minors and bring in outfield and specialty help.
You’d think, Blake……..
I don’t think the Sux would have to give up Buchholz to get Upton.
LGY…..It’s a good PR move by the organization, besides what happens if he has a good year 3…….Just a sidebar, didn’t they just raise prices on a good portion of the better seats…..If the Yanks want to continue to preserve their very well crafted Yankee Image, they’ll extend that Olive branch 4th year…..It’s not about the dough guys, it’s about the time……The NY Yankees are the Elite Organization in MLB, tons of cash, new Stadium, and make no mistake Derek Jeter and the Derek Jeter Era was the solid foundation for all of this…….It’s time for this topic to go away, and it will before the Winter Meetings…….WCYF, the next time the Yanks come to Anaheim, I’ll get you a Joel Sherman autographed baseball…..
Buch/Bard/Ellsbury+a prospect or two,
Then who are they going to give up? Towers is not going to take garbage from the Sox……….
We are actually loaded with OF prospects as per my post above. They just aren’t in AA yet. In addition to the IFA’s, don’t forget among others that we drafted both Gumbs and Mason Williams this year. & Cito and Tamarez, as well, to start filling our infield needs.
MTU,
I wasn’t really trying to offer my point of view of I think the Yankees should handle this.
I was just pointing out the ramifications of Pat M’s proposal and that it is actually one of the more critical of Jeter contract offerings proposed on this board.
But I do understand what you are saying and will let off the throttle a little with my views on it
Pat. I go to every Yankee game in the LA area – you do that. lol
There’s a lot of folks on here that are like a lot of writers (Sherman, Matthews, Loopica. Law, Neyer, etc) that make remarks like the far has nothing but a few pitchers and catchers and has never bothered to go see them. Most don’t know but 3 names, but, they have no problem repeating BS.
Who would they trade for him? If Ellsbury and Bard is overpaying then Towers needs his head examined. Buchholtz, Bard, Ellsbury, and Iglesias should be the asking price.
WCYF,
You didn’t educate me on jack sh-t. My criticism was aimed pretty much entirely at Matthews. Didn’t mention Sherman even once last night.
So go educate yourself on reading comprehension.
What is going to happen first?
Cubs offer that $125 million to Jeter Chip talked about or Boston trades for Upton???
Tom in N.J. November 18th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Buch/Bard/Ellsbury+a prospect or two
________________________________________
Add in Kelly and Iglesias. & you have a deal. Arizona needs pitching prospects…
Blake-
That would be similar to the Yanks offering GGBG, Hughes, Nunez a Good arm.
I would not do that.
I think the suxers would be crazy to. I hope they do it. Why give up Bucholz ? Like you say they’re filling a hole but creating some even bigger ones.
I wouldn’t believe a word you hear about Justin Upton unless those were are “Justin Upton was traded to…”.
The Diamondbacks have literally no motivation to move him, he is locked up for no cost until 2015.
No one is paying 3-5 Major League ready players for a guy with a family history of labrum/shoulder issues who strikes out 30% of his at bats.
Teams all value players differently.
if you read the MLB trade rumors comments after the Granderson trade, fans of other teams thought we robbed them and were killing Dombrowski for not getting Hughes, Joba, Montero, etc. for the face of their franchise. Similar comments on how the Braves could trade away their #2 starter and CY Young candidate (Javy) for Melky and a low A prospect and how 10 other teams who need pitching could have topped that offer.
Similarly, while it may appear that Ellsbury, Bard, etc. might not be enough, it only matters what Towers thinks. Who knows? He might find some gems in their lower minors and might not want to deal with Buchholz in arbitration (or perhaps, like the advanced stats suggest, Buchholz was not nearly as good as his ERA would indicate and he wants other players instead). Or maybe he flips some of those Sox players for someone else.
There is more to a farm system than the 3-4 names we hear about by Baseball America. Think other fans know about Heathcott, Sanchez, J. Ramirez, Laird, Noesi, Warren, etc in our farm? No, they probably only know the key names.
In reality, most teams do have enough pieces to acquire anyone. It’s just a matter of how badly they want to ravage their farm/MLB team to do so.
YankeeFeminista, good point
if the red sox make the trade that yankeefeminista posted about, then the yankees frankly have to view it as a victory. if they took 5 probable mler’s who are cost controlled and traded for one guy, you have to feel good moving forward. their farm is not nearly as good as boston media says it is, they’d have to replace those guys with free agents
WCYF….will respond to your inquiry….I see that Bombers every season in Seattle, Oakland, Anaheim of course and when ever they travel across the mountains for inter league…Also I catch at least 2 games a season in The Bronx…….I’m so use to seeing them in their road greys that the road uni’s are catching up to all the times I saw them growing up in NY in their Pinstripes…….This season I think I saw them play 11 games on the road…They only came to Anaheim once this season, although Chavez Ravine and Phoenix was on the schedule…..
I think Bard and Ellsbury could be the focal point of a deal.
MTU,
Exactly. They wont. If the asking price is as high as has been reported then I see no way they can make a deal without including Buchholtz….they just don’t have that much elite talent to offer and any non-Buchholtz offer could be easily topped by any number of teams….including the Yanks
With much respect for your dedication and travel Pat. Outstanding.
Why would any team create 4 holes to fill 1?
WC, completely disagree. When it’s reported that AZ would be asking for “everything” in return for a player they hardly have to move, you don’t center a package around those two.
1st base plans for the Red sox is starting to get holes in them. Roeneke and the Brewers want to keep Fielder for this year and beyond and not likely to be traded. Can you say “Adam LaRoche, Part Deux”? I thought you could.
Derek Jeter has been well compensated by NYY for many, many years. It is likely he will continue to be well paid for a few more. Everyone agrees, it’s been a great arrangement for both sides.
The question is how much is the cost of loyalty, both ways? If NYY is operating under a budget Hal said this will stay in the same “range” as 2010, then for every million paid to Jeter that is one less million paid to another roster spot. A roster spot that could be critical to winning a ring in 2011. Who can argue this point?
If Jeter is paid > 15 million fine. But if Jeter is paid > 15 mil and we hear from Cash or Hal that there is a budget thus no money available for a potential roster fit either now or in mid-season, then the Jeter deal cost the Yankees payroll flexibility.
3/ 50 is more than generous and a da n good expression of loyalty by NYY wouldn’t you say?
Why not? I think they would take four players for Upton. Bard and Ellsbury could be the starting foundation for a deal.
I’ve been to ton’s of stadiums… but the only time I’ve ever seen the Yankee’s road uni’s was at Citi for Mo’s 500th save.
The Yankee’s should be allowed to wear their pinstripes in any stadium who’s average attendance is less than half of capacity
Why would Towers trade a 23 year old potential super star outfielder that is signed to a team friendly longterm contract for a relief pitcher and an injury prone outfielder with limited power. That’s a move you make when you HAVE to deal somebody….not when you hold all the cards.
The only focal point that Ellsbury and Bard would be a part of is for Broxton and Loney.
blake – he said it was the focal point, not the entire trade.
why on earth would the red sox trade their future closer and starting LF and 2 other ML ready prospects for… essentially a prospect RF… that leaves them with 3 holes to fill.
Arizona has a center fielder. That would be the only position where Ellsbury has any sort of real value.
I think more highly of Ellsbury, he was injured last year. Bard and Ellsbury and two of the following players would be reasonable. Lowrie, Doubront, Kelly, Rizzo or Iglesias.
rreverent Discourse says:
November 18, 2010 at 6:36 pm
I’ve been to ton’s of stadiums… but the only time I’ve ever seen the Yankee’s road uni’s was at Citi for Mo’s 500th save.
The Yankee’s should be allowed to wear their pinstripes in any stadium who’s average attendance is less than half of capacity ?
—–
I agree, I go to the Trop and I wish they could be able to wear their pinstripes. I really want to see them, I’m sick of the road grays
*though I do like the tradition, I like that they don’t have 5 different uniforms and I like when I see a picture that I know right away if it was from a home or away game.
Oh, please…name two other ML ready Boston prospects? Anderson? If he was all that, Boston would be keeping him to play 1st base.
I do not understand this fascination with Justin Upton. He is a really good player that is young. Why the h would some team though trade the farm for him, especially NYY which does not have a clear need for him?
Forget him. Let some other team overpay.
Doubront is ready and the others are close.
ID,
Because Upton could be one.of the best players in.baseball in a couple of years and because he is relatively cheap for his talent level. They Sox would be losing a relief pitcher off their major league roster….if they could.swing a deal for him and not have to include Buchholtz then Theo does it in a skinny second…..
Question to all…….Alex would have also been on the open market this winter, how do you think that would be playing about right now…..Possibly the greatest pitcher to ever pitch ( I think he was ) retired 44 years ago and his legend continues to grow……He is the bench mark for all past , present and future pitchers to be compared against……And he had to hold out to get 100 k a season….Have to think Sandy would be hauling in about 30 million at least per campaign if he were to be hurling today……
If a team like ARI has little to no incentive to trade a star like Upton, if you come knocking on the door wanting him, you will pay through the nose. ARI holds all the cards, forget Upton, strictly media hype.
Pat M-
That sounds about right.
I think Blake is right on the money. If Arizona demands Buchholz – no deal.
Pat M, regarding if Arod was on the market.
There are a few teams in need of a 3B who is still a formidable middle of the order hitter easily capable of .900/35/130. I’d say he would be getting 3-4 yr offers in the 50 mil range.
What do you think?
Laird and Romine were both 1-3 today in AFL. Laird had his 22nd RBI. One off of the league lead.
Yankee21, yes- that’s very true about paying through the nose. I’ve no desire for Upton because I’ve no desire to give up several of our best prospects.
Towers is not taking Bard as part of a centerpiece for Upton.
He doesn’t value relievers and it would contradict his entire theory of building bullpens that he has built much of his career and reputation on.
Bard brings very little value to a trade with Towers. Him and Ellsbury is a ridiculous starting point and Theo would get laughed off the phone if Theo ever proposed that.
PatM-
I meant for Sandy, of course.
pat m,
after last season and the steroid issues, alex would be lucky to get 4/70 on the open market.
Lord there’s no telling what Koufax would get today.
I think Arod and Jeter in the same market would cause the hospitalizations of several reporters due to overexcitment and carpel tunnel.
“if they could.swing a deal for him and not have to include Buchholtz then Theo does it in a skinny second…..”
—————————
blake,
Definitely.
Theo would drive them to the airport if he could somehow get Upton without include Buccholz or Lester.
MLB would have to drug test Towers if that ever happened.
And finally this article from Wallace Matthews:
The New York Yankees would be happy to get Derek Jeter to agree to a three-year contract for $21 million a year, according to a source who has ties to both the team and the player.
But Jeter, the source said, wants at least a four-year deal, preferably five or six. According to the source, there is at least one voice inside the Yankees’ hierarchy urging the front office to play hard ball with Jeter.
“Tell him the deal is three years at $15 million a year, take it or leave it,” the person taking the hard-line approach said. “Wait him out and he’ll wind up taking it. Where’s he gonna go, Cincinnati?”
Pat, Koufax is about 72 now and in camp last year was hitting 82 MPH. That would have impressed Moyer 10 years ago.
Blake-
Well if Lee can get roughly 25 mill then Sandy definitely gets 30, or more.
Here’s a gut level Upton/BOS proposal on who would blink first…
Lester for Upton, straight up, who says yes first, BOS or ARI?
Heyman’s take via MLBTR:
•The Red Sox are showing more interest than the Yankees, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (Twitter link). He says the D’Backs would likely request Daniel Bard and Jacoby Ellsbury from the Red Sox.
21-
Arizona.
ron November 18th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
And finally this article from Wallace Matthews:
The New York Yankees would be happy to get Derek Jeter to agree to a three-year contract for $21 million a year, according to a source who has ties to both the team and the player.
But Jeter, the source said, wants at least a four-year deal, preferably five or six. According to the source, there is at least one voice inside the Yankees’ hierarchy urging the front office to play hard ball with Jeter.
“Tell him the deal is three years at $15 million a year, take it or leave it,” the person taking the hard-line approach said. “Wait him out and he’ll wind up taking it. Where’s he gonna go, Cincinnati?”
———————————————————————————————————————-
You’re about 30 hours late in reposting this
I think Towers is just blowing smoke to create some excitement in AZ. He has no intention of trading his star player, just determining interest and value, unless his analysis of the organization is that the ML team has to rebuild over the next 4 years.
In which case he’d look for young, cost-controlled players with significant upside. He’d be trying to delete as much salary as possible, and if so, and if he gets young starting pitching to complement/compete with Enright, Hudson, Kennedy, Mulvey, and Norberto, then he will trade Joe Saunders as he has the highest salary on the team.
Bosyon’s showing more interest because they confused Towers with Hoyer.
GB, I don’t think Mathews has the credibility to believe anything in that article…
Typical pure speculation from Heyman.
Matthews never had credibility to start with. after a couple of post game Girardi pressers this past season, he’s in the negative. I imagine that Girardi offered to split his lip, because he stopped trying to fabricate issues.
Jackson November 18th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Heyman’s take via MLBTR:
The Red Sox are showing more interest than the Yankees, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (Twitter link). He says the D’Backs would likely request Daniel Bard and Jacoby Ellsbury from the Red Sox.
*****************
Well what do you know. Let the Heyman bashing begin.
Midnight tomorrow is the deadline for submitting protected players from the Rule 5.
Off topic:
For Aldo the Apache, or other interested parties.
We talked about the upcoming film “127 hours”. I told you they were filming it while I was on a hike there.
Below you will see some pictures of the area. I think if you use a little imagination you will be able to see how someone could get in trouble.
By the way, that’s not me in the photo. It’s a companion.
http://picasaweb.google.com/cy.....JDO1O6YJQ#
Enjoy.
blake – not a chance. the diamondbacks are not “working out a better deal”. You HAVE to overpay for upton if you want him and his value is TREMENDOUS. Something like $60million excess value between now and 2015. I can’t find the article that figured it out but it’s ludicrous to think the Diamondbacks are negotiating.
No one is getting him for less than their 2 best young players PLUS 1 or 2 more younger prospects.
yankee21 November 18th, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Here’s a gut level Upton/BOS proposal on who would blink first…
Lester for Upton, straight up, who says yes first, BOS or ARI?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Suits me. This leaves Boston without a LH in their rotation.
GB….I know I’ve mentioned this before, but when I was 11 I was fortunate to go to Game 1 of the 63 World Series with my Pop and sat in those Corporate box seats that had the Co.’s name plate attached to it…..Sandy Koufax whiffed the 1st 5 Yanks and went on to k 15 Yankees to set the record……This was the mighty NY Yankees…..I remember Mantle just looking at this curveball that came out of the white shirts in the bleachers and just walked away…..The Rog swung at a curveball that must have broke 2 feet…..Frank Howard hit a 1 iron that Whitey Ford threw his hand up as if he had a chance to catch it, the ball went to the 461 mark in CF……Mantle held Hondo to a double……..In 65 Koufax just blew the Twins away with just heat on 2 days rest….Oliva, Killerbrew, Allison and company away…..He was simply the most unhittable guy and had pinpoint control…….6 hits per 9 and 9 k’s per 9, such sick numbers
MTU:
There’s a 15 minute preview of 127 hours on at 7:15 on HBO-W. I’m recording it
Let’s see. Ellsbury/agent is Boras. Ellsbury’s vaue has been torpedoed.
Heyman = Boras’s well known mouthpiece.
Everybody is panting for Ellsbury
108- if Upton is as great as some maintain as he is here, BOS would jump at that, no? Even if it leaves them w/o their top P. and w/o a LH.
Pat M. November 18th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
GB….I know I’ve mentioned this before, but when I was 11 I was fortunate to go to Game 1 of the 63 World Series with my Pop and sat in those Corporate box seats that had the Co.’s name plate attached to it…..Sandy Koufax whiffed the 1st 5 Yanks and went on to k 15 Yankees to set the record……This was the mighty NY Yankees…..I remember Mantle just looking at this curveball that came out of the white shirts in the bleachers and just walked away…..The Rog swung at a curveball that must have broke 2 feet…..Frank Howard hit a 1 iron that Whitey Ford threw his hand up as if he had a chance to catch it, the ball went to the 461 mark in CF……Mantle held Hondo to a double……..In 65 Koufax just blew the Twins away with just heat on 2 days rest….Oliva, Killerbrew, Allison and company away…..He was simply the most unhittable guy and had pinpoint control…….6 hits per 9 and 9 k’s per 9, such sick numbers
———————————————————————————————————————-
I’ve often wondered what would have Koufax’ career been like had it not been for that slide into 2nd base against SF in 1962 when he hit his left elbow on the ground. Even given his first 6 forgetable years, he’s a 300 game winner. simply amazing motion. Nothing was wasted. I got to see him only twice live in Wrigley, in ’63 and ’66. Let’s just say that the Cubs were impressed. As good over 6 years as I’ve ever seen.
Pat M- I replied to you on your ? about Arod hitting the market up above,, what do you think he’d command if he was a FA?
Jackson-
Ralston’s story is compelling but for someone like me the real story is going to be the “revelation” that is Utah. It’s great Natural beauty.
Of course, I am baised but I have seen it with my own eyes, and I have shared some of it with all of you.
It actually scares me to think about it.
I love the solitude that the wilderness has to offer and I would never want to see it changed by a Hollywood movie.
Maybe I’m wrong but after 127 I think people are gonna be flocking to Utah to vacation and maybe to live.
We’ll see.
MLB-TV is about to run a spot on Koufax now.
MTU
The picture with your friend in it, is that where the guy that the film is about got trapped?
I hope Boston empties their system for Upton. If that shoulder isn’t 100% or that fanbase decides “he’s not playing haaaard!” that will turn out to be a franchise killer.
yankee21 November 18th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
108- if Upton is as great as some maintain as he is here, BOS would jump at that, no? Even if it leaves them w/o their top P. and w/o a LH.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All that deal would do is fill one hole and open up another.
I hope Boston empties their system for Upton. If that shoulder isn’t 100% or that fanbase decides “he’s not playing haaaard!” that will turn out to be a franchise killer.
—- I agree G Love !!! let them empty the system !
nobody is going to be moving to Utah until they do something about the glare coming from the Provo area. The lights shining off of all of those Osmond teeth is ruining the view.
KPB-
That is not the exact spot but it’s that type of a deal. A narrow slot canyon in the same area called “blue John”. The one in the picture is called “Zebra”. I used it to illustrste the remoteness and the potential danger.
GB-
Thanks. I don’t get that channel unfortunately. I was lucky enough to see see him.
yankee 21….Sorry I didn’t see your post…..The Angels would be after him once again…….He’d get a four year deal from The Angels……Money around 20-22 million
Can’t imagine why Boras is pushing his client. Imagine.
GB-
They use it as a guidance beacon for the approach to SLC airport.
108- According to the mediots BOS has one of the top farm systems, so they could slot in Lester’s place someone like over-hyped RH Casey Kelley in a year or so… So BOS should blink first and take that deal if Upton is as great as some say he is and if their never-ending farm system is as good as the mediots say it is….
Otherwise,, as you say, opens up one hole to fill another…
It never occurred to you that the only “scoops” that Heyman has are on Boras clients? Heyman is Boras’ bought boy.
No, of course not. All writers are filled with integrity.
MTU November 18th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
GB-
They use it as a guidance beacon for the approach to SLC airport.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Using them to land the sea gulls?
I adore Jeter, but I hope the Yanks stand firm at 3. He’s not getting 5 or 6 (or 4, probably) from anyone.
GB-
Lol. No. The BIG birds. The ones that feed on jet fuel not garbage.
Pat M. and GB,
Koufax was without a doubt the most dominating pitcher I have seen. I remember the hopeless feeling watching that game in 1963, on TV that is. He was beautiful to watch. He was a New York kid that got away.
Um, yeah I’m going to bash Heyman because if he really thinks that’s all Towers would center a trade around, he’s smoking something
MTU, saw your pics. Magnificent … And claustrophobic. Something so beautiful, yet so dangerous.
ID, that’s why it’s insane to think Bard and Ellsbury would constitute the main pieces of a package. The Yankees have interest, I’m sure, but they aren’t going to kill their farm system
LMAO. MTU, I guess that’s only funny if you know the story about sea gulls in Utah, huh?
Aldo-
And therein lies the rub. I have been in many. Some way more remote than “Blue John”. All I can tell you is that for me it’s awe inspiring.
I’m glad you enjoyed the little “peek”.
GB7
I’ll bite, what’s the story on the sea gulls?
GreenBeret7 November 18th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
It never occurred to you that the only “scoops” that Heyman has are on Boras clients? Heyman is Boras’ bought boy. No, of course not. All writers are filled with integrity.
************
It’s pretty clear that you don’t know much about the media or agents for that matter. There is not that much urgency to scoop anyone anymore, that was much more important decades ago when you had a few newspapers in a city competing against one another for advertising dollars. There is professional pride but that’s it. There is no financial reward.
Jon Heyman is a wealth of information on baseball and if you have ever watched him being interviewed you would realize that. Of course agents like Boras use the media to set trial balloons and disseminate information, that’s their job. Boras is a great agent for the most part.
GB-
Yup.
Mac, the fact that Mantle was able to square up that fastball in dodger stadium was impressive after missing 2/3rds of the season. what a blast. My only fond memory of that series. Ford pitched his heart out allowing 2 hits…double, homer to Big Hondo.
KPB-
Just think of the Great Salt Lake and use your imagination.
KPB November 18th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
GB7
I’ll bite, what’s the story on the sea gulls?
———————————————————————————————————————-
I think this is most of the story, but, after about 2 years of bountiful harvests in Utah, they were invaded by locusts. After trying to stomp them out and burning them out, the Mormons were near starvation. One day, 10s of thousands of sea gulls found their way to the Utah deserts and ate the locusts and wiped them out. The sea gulls are sacred in Utah and the statues are atop of most public buildings.
MTU
I get the no water and therefore no gulls, but was there an actual story about someone thinking they saw sea gulls?
Aldo-
The worst one I have ever been in is, oddly enough, called “spooky”.
It’s so narrow you cannot proceed thru without turning sideways removing your pack and being very agile. You literally have to squeeze your way thru it. It goes on for at least a mile like that.
If you have any claustrophobia forget it ! Instant panic attack.
Strange way to have fun, huh ?
It’s apparent that you have no idea what the relationship between boras and Heyman are and everyone but you seems to know it.
GB7
MTU mentioned salt flats (no water), you mention birds that are around water. I know you joke a lot, so are you serious or just fooling with me?
KPB-
GB just gave the background info. The great Salt Lake is like an inland Sea, and seagulls like salt water. There’s plenty of it so there’s plenty of seagulls.
KPB, the gulls are an historic and documented fact. They believe that they were following the swarms out of California and the Northwest.
KPB-
That’s Bonneville salt flats something completely different.
That’s the remanants of a pre-historic lake. Now gone and a huge and beautiful salt flat. They race for the land speed record there.
KPB-
And to this day they are called “Mormon Crickets”.
have you ever seen what happens to a sea gull when you throw alka seltzer or fizzies to them and they catch them? after about 30 seconds…PLOOF. Feathers everywhere. They are a real pest around savannah.
Oops my mistake. So, I guess the sea gulls were breaking speeds to get to the locusts.
I’ve heard that about alka seltzer, but never seen it. I grew up on the gulf coast and have seen them all over. I tried to feed one some bread once, then found myself surrounded. It made the movie The Birds hit home.
MTU November 18th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
KPB-
And to this day they are called “Mormon Crickets”.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Would Buddy Holly Brigham Young be a Mormon Cricket?
Never feed a sea gull. They’ll follow you home and stay forever.
MTU, my outdoors experience is limited to backpacking and overnights in the woods, mountain regions. In other words, nothing approaching what you’ve done.
When you’re going through narrow crevices like that, is there open air beneath you? Are there loose rocks about? Rocks large enough to cause harm, that is.
Gotta catch the movie!
GB-
Talk about pesty birds.
You should see what the “Beretta” birds do to the wooden structures in Sydney.
Over there they are considered nothing but a pain in the a*s.
We watched in amazement as they slowly began to dismantle a building across from the restaurant where we were eating.
It’s hard to believe it unless you see it. So pretty but oh so destructive.
Aldo-
Most of them are firmly wedged but not always, and that’s what happened to Aaron.
And yes, you can fall down in if you’re not careful. There is room to drop and get wedged. I personally would never attemp it alone. Never.
And if you were alone and caught, as Aaron found out so sadly, It’s very possible you die there. Period.
MTU
Your right about being pests. When I tried to feed the one and all came, they wouldn’t leave us alone. Luckily I did that about 2 hours from home. Had they followed me home, I no doubt would have shot them.
GB-
If that was his name. Absolutely.
MTU, done “correctly” (in my case, with someone who has a lot more experience), it sounds like the kind of thing I would enjoy.
Where do you spend the nights? Or do you have to make it back out?
KPB-
If you shot them more would only come.
They would make nice food for the gators though.
Crocs love chickens so I guess Gators would love fowl too.
Aldo-
You can camp in the area and do a multitude of hikes but that one is a day hike so it’s it in, and hopefully, out.
MTU, cool! I’m intrigued.
Then again, maybe I’ll watch the movie and have second thoughts!
MTU
I have plenty of ammo for the birds. Afterwards I could use them for gator bait. I don’t know what sea gulls taste like, but I know fried gator is good.
Aldo-
For example, this one is a lot of fun and is right next door.
It’s called Peek-a-Boo :
http://picasaweb.google.com/cy....._P20NXoQQ#
KPB-
Then you’re all set.