Rule 5 protection deadline approaching
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 19, 2010 
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Tonight is the deadline for Rule 5 protection. Right now the Yankees 40-man roster is at 31 players, but not all of those open spots will — or should — be used for Rule 5 eligible players. Free agents signings still need to make the list, as do any big leaguers the Yankees might find in a trade.
There are a few non-tender candidates, but Brian Cashman has already said he doesn’t expect a roster crunch, and that seems about right. Nine open spots is a lot, especially given the lack of front-line Rule 5 candidates.
Obviously need protection
Dellin Betances and Brandon Laird
In my opinion, these are the absolute no-brainers. Betances is one of the elite prospects in the system, and Laird has put himself on the verge of that group with steady production level after level. The fact Cashman dropped Laird’s name this week as a potential Major League bench candidate pretty much tells the story. Barring a significant surprise, these two will be added to the roster.
Close to major league ready
Wilkins Arias, George Kontos, Lance Pendleton, Ryan Pope
In my mind, this is the next tier of candidates. All four are pitchers — Arias is the only lefty — and all four could open in Triple-A next season. Kontos was arguably the biggest prospect of the bunch before Tommy John surgery in 2009. I don’t think any of these four is a sure thing to make a big league roster out of spring training, but I think all four would have the potential to do it. I could see one or two of these being protected, but not all four.
Injured talent
Jairo Heredia, Alan Horne, Brad Suttle
All three of these have been bigger prospects than any of the four listed ahead of them, but injuries have taken their toll and slowed their progress. Horne is definitely out of consideration — too many surgeries, he’ll have to prove himself again — but Heredia and Suttle could be wild card choices by a team hoping to go big in the Rule 5. Neither has played above High-A, and I don’t think either could stick on a roster. I’d be surprised to see any of them protected.
Names to know, but not protect
Abraham Almonte, Craig Heyer, Jose Pirela, Kevin Whelan
Almonte is an outfielder who was once seen as having considerable upside, but the results haven’t been there. Pirela is a young infielder who might make sense if the Yankees didn’t already have a wealth of internal utility candidates. Whelan is a hard-throwing reliever who actually had a better chance of making the roster a year or two ago. Of these four, Heyer is the one I can’t quite put a finger on. He’s not a big name, but he walks almost no one — six walks all season — and he was sent to the Arizona Fall League after steady production the past three seasons. I might be underestimating him, but I don’t think he’ll be added.
Bottom line
I will not be stunned if Laird and Betances are the only players added to the roster today. I think there will be one or two more — whoever the Yankees like most out of Arias, Kontos, Pendleton and Pope — but as Cashman said this week, there really isn’t a significant roster crunch developing. The Yankees have room to protect a ton of guys, but probably don’t have the need to protect more than three or four.
To answer the question of who I would replace Hughes with if I traded him for Upton straight up.
I would move one of the OF (+prospects depending on who it is) for a starter. A Gavin Floyd or Jar Jurrjens for example.
Or alternatively, I could just take Upton and then just proceed to flip him for a monster package like Towers is trying to do, because he has a lot more trade value than Hughes.
Chip November 19th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Irreverent Discourse November 19th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Chip – “producing” a pitcher doesn’t help them. They need Hughes to pitch NOW. Not 3-4 years from now when they develop someone to replace him.
———————-
Playing Devil’s Advocate – what if the Yankees could replace Hughes with either a FA or additional trade?
Even if they only sign Cliff Lee, a rotation of: CC, Lee, Andy, AJ, Nova is still better than what most teams would have.
The Yankees are not trading for Upton; they don’t need him.
The Yankees need pitching; 1 or two starters and a lefty reliever.
Along with signing Jeter and Mo…
How are you going to get a Gavin Floyd type pitcher for one of the sub-par Yankee’s OF prospects? You are going to bleed the entire farm system to try to turn Hughes into Upton.
You could just make no moves, and overall be in a stronger position.
I’m not talking about OF prospects. I’m referring to our OF.
The trade for Upton is not necessarily a move to maximize 2010. It is to maximize 2010-2020.
Left handed relievers that Yanks may have interest in. Downs may be good, but not a #1 or #2 pick.
Yankees Interested In J.C. Romero
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [November 19 at 11:50am CST]
The Yankees are interested in left-hander J.C. Romero, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The longtime Phillie has also drawn interest from the Tigers, though they don’t necessarily need to add a left-handed reliever.
Romero, 34, kept his ERA under 4.00 for a fourth consecutive season in 2010, pitching to a 3.68 mark in 36 2/3 innings. He gets lots of groundballs and is effective against left-handed hitters, but his free agent value will likely be limited. Romero struggles against right-handed hitters, he walked more batters (29) than he struck out (28) in 2010 and he dealt with elbow and back soreness.
The Yankees are also interested in Pedro Feliciano and, potentially, Scott Downs. Teams will not have to surrender 2011 draft choices to sign Feliciano or Romero, but Downs may cost a pick
(repost)
“Hmmm, I wonder which is closer to his likely performance.”
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It is completely silly to even be talking about Upton’s statistics in the manner you are. That is the main point I made above about you are not trading for the guy’s baseball card but who he is going to be.
There is no “likely performance” for a 23 year old with Upton’s talent.
Considering he is a young RH power bat who hits the ball to all fields, it is pretty safe to assume he will hit LHP.
You don’t trade for Upton and flip him when you’re the Yankees.
That said, the idea that trading Hughes for Upton and then using OF’ers to replace Hughes (in theory) isn’t a bad one.
The only thing with Gavin Floyd is Kenny Williams would not deal for Swisher for obvious reasons. You’d be down to trading Granderson or Gardner for Floyd.
You also can’t trade Hughes without knowing who the pitcher is you’re getting to fill in for him.
Also Towers is not going to take Hughes straight up with no other prospects for Upton. He’s still going to ask for one of the catchers and one of the killer B’s.
The Upton trade for the Yankees makes little sense when the OF we have is a good one.
You’ll be creating holes and reshuffling players in order to get one player.
If CB comes in here and definitively states Upton is a young Pujols/Arod type, then maybe you blow up the team to get him.
I’m not sure that’s what he is. It’s the kind of trade that if it doesn’t work out for you it could be a team killer.
Comparing it to the Herschel Walker trade is right on the money. That trade created a dynasty in Dallas and did nothing for Minnesota.
I would pass on Upton unless the price was something like 1 of our 3 starting OF’ers, Nova, Romine and one of the killer B’s. If you put Hughes in the mix than Nova and the killer B’s are off the table.
That’s the deal I would make if I were the Yankees but Towers probably won’t take it.
Chad, after Corona’s ugly injury, no need to protect him, either.
Like you, Heyer’s a tough figure. He’s still just 24 and seems to have done well in the swing man role. he does nothing well but win…a lot like Pendleton. Pope is from savannah and probably will get picked. He made a solid converstion from rotation to the bullpen. Not closer material, though. I always liked Jonathon Ortiz, too, but, he should have advanced further by now.
“You don’t trade for Upton and flip him when you’re the Yankees. ”
———————–
G Love,
Yeah, I agree that would never happen.
I was just expanding on saying that in some fantasy world if I could trade Hughes for Upton straight I would do it in a heartbeat.
If somehow that was possible, which it is not, I would make that trade and figure the rest out later.
None of the deals you guys have worked up are overpaying to the extent that will make the Diamondbacks trade him away. The deals you are talking about would work if Upton was locked up for maybe 2 more years, not 4.
When Towers said 5 ML ready players, I don’t think he was kidding.
In 2-3 years, when the price is reasonable… then you can worry about trading for Upton.
Why aren’t the Yankees in on Justin Upton? I understand them not wanting to give up prospects and I’m fine with that. But they should at least make it difficult for the Red Sox to acquire him. And I think Upton fits well in the Yankees lineup
Lord, I hope some of you don’t apply for the job of Brian Cashman’s inner voice.
Is it worth it for a mid-market team to blow up their franchise to acquire Upton? maybe… but they would have to be damn sure they had enough pieces to win before Upton gets his first real contract in 2015.
The Yankee’s don’t have the added incentive of needing to save the money, which I feel lowers Upton’s value to us… making anything we give up to acquire him inherently cost that much more.
El Gran Granador – anyone that trades for upton now is losing on the deal, let the redsox have him and bleed their system dry IMO.
ID,
Exactly. It’s not worth trading for him at this price. While the Yankees have resources and prospects, you’d be using a majority of them for one player. It’s putting all your eggs in one basket, so to speak.
Doesn’t make sense to me unless this is a once in a lifetime franchise player who you have to have.
I don’t know if Upton is that player. I haven’t watched him enough. He feels a bit like Greinke to me. One monster season followed by a lesser season and now on the market.
That’s not to diminish the player, but he did slip a bit and get injured last year.
Trading 5 top young players is a bitter pill to swallow for any team.
I’m sure the Red Sox are trying to do it without giving up anything of real value. I wouldn’t doubt they are concocting 3 team deals where the other team gives up the prospects and they get Upton.
For any team to make this kind of a deal I imagine it will have to hurt and with the current Yankee OF being pretty darn good I’m not sure there’s an impetus to do this right now.
All the Upton talk is nonsense. If Melky Cabrera was still patrolling CF, Upton could be a possibility.
But they aren’t giving up half the farm for an outfielder they don’t need.
Chad,
Could you see Suttle and Heridia being picked up in the minor league phase of the draft and promoted to AAA in your opinion?
In regard to Floyd since I brought him name up above.
A part of me, thinks the Yankees should be proactive and make a move for him now before the Lee negotiations really start and Andy makes his decision.
He only makes $5 million next year, so whatever ends up happening with Andy and Lee you would still have flexibility with what to do with the rotation.
So, Chip, Bret the Hitman and all the other pretend GMs out there get those trade caps on and start putting together some potential packages for Floyd!
The thing you want to be cognizant of if you’re a Yankee fan is Aces like Cliff Lee hitting the market are few and far between. The Yankees need to develop their own aces and draft them (and sign them internationally).
If one of the Killer B’s turns out to be a top of the rotation starter you have to keep them. I doubt all 3 hit that mark, but who’s to say which one won’t at this point.
Trading your top pitching that has the potential be Ace like for an OF makes no sense when the cost is high and availability is low to get a top of the rotation starter.
I’m usually all for trading prospects, but we have a good OF as it stands. The real everyday player issue on this team is the age on the left side of the diamond, not the age in the OF.
I don’t trade guys who could be top of the rotation types who are already in AA. Those guys you keep. AA is way too close to the majors these days.
The A ball projection guys you can deal.
In my option, the Killer B’s are like the Generation X or whatever Hughes/Joba/Kennedy were called. One made it out of there and Joba unfortunately is in limbo somewhere.
This is likely to happen with the B’s, so i propose we wait to see which of them benefits our team.
“This is likely to happen with the B’s, so i propose we wait to see which of them benefits our team.”
Wrong, that’s why the Yanks should be moving them (or some of them) now.
ac1 November 19th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
In my option, the Killer B’s are like the Generation X or whatever Hughes/Joba/Kennedy were called. One made it out of there and Joba unfortunately is in limbo somewhere.
This is likely to happen with the B’s, so i propose we wait to see which of them benefits our team.
——————
While that’s a fair thought don’t you run the same risk with them that the Yankees ran into with Joba?
When Chamberlain first broke onto the scene you could have used him as the centerpiece of a trade for a key player – now he’s a middling middle reliever with almost no trade value.
In reference to the earlier thread, the Mantle 643 (and even the 565) ft HR stories are apocryphal. Robert Adair’s “The Physics of Baseball” is a good, if dense, read to understand why. His findings have been summarized in more “pop” outlets, too.
Adair uses trigonometry and physics to calculate a probable distance for Mantle’s 565 ft shot: 506. This takes nothing at all away from Mantle’s strength or talent.
The yankees are going to agree to pay 230 M forever. They need to develop their own aces and keep them cost controlled. This means they need to run with some of their young prospect starters.
“To answer the question of who I would replace Hughes with if I traded him for Upton straight up.
I would move one of the OF (+prospects depending on who it is) for a starter. A Gavin Floyd or Jar Jurrjens for example. ”
I’d do that as well.
For those that missed the Butch Wynager interview on “Monty”, Jesus Montero on YES Hotstove.
watch some of the interviews below.
http://web.yesnetwork.com/medi.....d=13007147
I would move one of the OF (+prospects depending on who it is) for a starter. A Gavin Floyd or Jar Jurrjens for example. ”
___
That simple? You think anyone is going 1 and 1 with the Yankees?
Chip:
It’s got to depend which GM (or owner) you were talking to. I can’t imagine that the shrewder types would have given up too much despite Joba’s great 22 IP. Talk to Huntington, Bowden, Loria, though, and they might have gotten something.
I think the (mostly deserved) fan and media hype he received exceeded the excitement about him as a commodity in front office circles.
Steve Phillips (yeah I’m quoting the Silver Fox) once said that prospects will break a fan’s heart and get GM’s fired.
I tend to agree with him. GM’s have to be fortune tellers – “Two prospects, both project to be stars. Do I keep this one and trade that one? Which one is going to be Mike Lowell and which one Drew Henson? And the player I’m getting back, is he going to be Paul O’Neill or Roberto Kelly?”
As fans we read about these kids – follow them from draft day on up and, as a result, we tend to think that our prospects will be the ones that beat the odds – our young players are better than everyone else’s young players – they’re going to develop on a steady line and not suffer injuries or stall at a particular level.
It’s rough.
But – I think if you ask around baseball: Hughes for Upton the vast response you’ll get will be that the Yankees aren’t giving up nearly enough.
john_halfz November 19th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
In reference to the earlier thread, the Mantle 643 (and even the 565) ft HR stories are apocryphal. Robert Adair’s “The Physics of Baseball” is a good, if dense, read to understand why. His findings have been summarized in more “pop” outlets, too.
Adair uses trigonometry and physics to calculate a probable distance for Mantle’s 565 ft shot: 506. This takes nothing at all away from Mantle’s strength or talent.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Did he even bother to leave his basement to interview the people involved…including Al Kaline who had the best view of the shot or the 3 Tiger fans working in the lumberyard across the steet that saw the ball hit the shed?
The Yankees farm is positioned to take a hit. Cashman just has to trade away the right pieces of the farm and the right assets on the team.
I’d be open to dealing Brackman, Gardner, Joba, Nova, Nunez, Laird, Noesi, Phelps, Warren, Stoneburner.
If the Yankees sign Crawford to replace Gardner, you can use all those players above to upgrade Swish and find a cheap young setup guy with closer potential.
That’s really all the Yankees need to do.
I really want Upton but I’m starting to think he complicates things. There are plenty of pieces to address our few needs outside of the players required to obtain Upton.
After Lee, there’s not much more the team can do than upgrade LF, RF and the bullpen.
Cashman has the chips to do that safely if he avoids Upton.
I don’t get why people want to trade Hughes (and prospects) for Upton. We need pitching, and we are going to downgrade our pitching staff in order to add an outfielder? We scored BY FAR the most runs in the league last year, plus we have Montero coming up, and we will probably bring back Thames or another solid bench player. I wouldn’t include Hughes in a deal for anyone in the league, except a great young pitcher like Felix Hernandez or Josh Johnson. If we really want another outfielder, then we can add Crawford or Werth, without giving up the second best starting pitcher on our roster.
“But – I think if you ask around baseball: Hughes for Upton the vast response you’ll get will be that the Yankees aren’t giving up nearly enough.”
No doubt. Yankees fans think giving up Hughes is too much. Baseball people will say that isin’t enough. Just the ways fans value their own.
If the Yanks sign Lee to a long term deal and Pettitte to a one-year deal, where is the opportunity for the minor league starters?
If they keep Hughes, it isn’t there. CC, Lee, AJ and Hughes have 4 rotation spots locked up for years. YEARS.
That leaves one – count them, ONE – rotation spot in the next THREE years to be divided up between Nova, Noesi, Phelps, Mitchell, Brackman, Bleich, Betances and others coming up behind them. NONE next year.
In these circumstances, it is a no-brainer – I repeat, a no-brainer – to be willing to trade multiple minor pitchers to get a guy like Upton.
AND, if those minor league pitchers are as good as most LoHudders seem to believe they are, it should be almost a no-brainer to trade Hughes for Upton and replace him with one of those guys for the major league minimum.
ac1 November 19th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
The yankees are going to agree to pay 230 M forever. They need to develop their own aces and keep them cost controlled. This means they need to run with some of their young prospect starters.
————————
Well by extension doesn’t that also mean that they’re going to need to have some young outfielders who are cost controlled as well?
Dealing Hughes for Upton would, in my opinion, be quite similar to the deal Tampa and Minny made with Delmon Young for Matt Garza – it’s a trade that worked out very well for both teams.
So basically, sign Lee, sign Crawford and you’re left with RF and future closer as long term needs.
Can you use these guys to accomplish those goals?
Swisher
Gardner
Joba
Brackman
Nova
Noesi
Laird
Nunez
Phelps
Warren
Stoneburner
Adams
….of course.
So it would essentially be Hughes/Granderson/some other non-elite prospects for Floyd and Upton.
Not bad. The Floyd part is definitely do-able. Williams seems to be dangling him and Granderson could probably fetch him.
It’s the Upton part that would be more complicated – Hughes alone likely isin’t enough. I’d have no problem adding the Romines and Warrens of the world, but I don’t know if Cashman would move Hughes AND one of the killer Bs in the same package.
Love your thinking though.
Wave -
That’s pretty much what I said yesterday.
As I see it the Yankees have 8 guys who are going to come up at the same time to compete for 3 spots.
Andy’s place in the rotation
Mo’s closer role
1 other bullpen role
And that of course assumes that the Yankees don’t sign any other free agents in the next couple of years.
Chip,
How are we getting Floyd?
Still researching?
3 B/B- prospects don’t equal 1 A/A+ prospect
Nova, Stoneburner, Phelps don’t equal Betances or Man-Bam.
If the Yankees weren’t in such dire need of pitching, I would seriously consider trading for Upton, but they are. It really doesn’t matter what we would do, just what the Yankees would do. I’m pretty sure the Yankees wouldn’t trade Phil regardless of the pitching situation unless they were privately questioning his true ceiling. Since I hardly think they are at that point, since they need pitching now and since they do not need Upton, Phil is a non-starter (I believe). Even so, let’s say the Yanks were down on Phil – there’s a good chance Towers would be as well and wouldn’t want to make him the centerpiece of a package.
The only one of the 3 B’s I would trade is Brackman – period.
Wave, that’s a big IF….and we won’t see the best 2 for another year or so and, even then, they’ll be green kids. I say that’s a big if for the usual reasons, but also because since you sort of share my opinion about Phil at this time……and Phil was incredibly hyped and well thought of, then you have to consider that it’s very possible those kids won’t turn out. Are we going to give them 1 year to show they’re stars before we trade them?
Uh, GB7. He’s the professor emeritus of physics at yale university. and a huge baseball fan. which is why he uses his tenure status to research baseball. and, like, attend basball games and stuff.
Take a look at the hittracker discussion of Mantle’s YS blast: http://www.hittrackeronline.co.....?id=1963_3
Ball traveling 600 feet under those conditions would have to leave bat at 150 MPH. Just not possible.
It doesn’t diminish the achievement to say that some of the longest HRs of all time weren’t hit as far as the mythology would have us believe.
I think that before Cashman would consider moving Hughes he would gauge the trade market and see if there was a viable way for him to bring in a pitcher to replace Hughes. Be it Floyd, Carmona or someone else. He would also talk to his minor league people – Is Ivan Nova really ready? If the Yankees sign Lee and Andy comes back could Nova or Noesi slot into the fifth spot in the rotation if Hughes were gone. And he would find out what it would take to sign de la Rosa as well.
If Brian was confident that he could acquire another starter at a price he’s comfortable with or that there was a viable internal replacement for Hughes, then I think he would be willing to include him in a deal for Upton.
ID, I dislike this idea as well. So, just to get a player we don’t need, we’re going to trade a talented pitcher (granted, who does not have the upside as a pitcher that Upton does as an OFer) and then get busy figuring out a way to make a bunch of deals to replace Phil. It’s not sufficient to say that Cash would have irons in the fire and would be able to replace Phil – you don’t know that. EVen if he did, trades could fall apart (hello Lee) and then what do you have?
Unless the Yanks were disappointed in Phil and have changed their mind, he’s going nowhere right now.
If the Yankees can sign Lee and Crawford they can keep Hughes, Montero, Banuelos and Betances and solve RF long term and bring in a future closer.
It’s not that complicated.
Swisher + a lesser prospect like Nunez is worth a future closer IMHO.
Gardner + Brackman + Joba is plenty enough to bring in a quality young cheap RF.
That’s a CF leadoff hitter and 2 potential front line starters for a RF.
Talk about surplus.
Forget Upton.
I really don’t see the need to blow up the team for Upton even if he is a Pujols…………I don’t see the need to blow up the team period.
Betsy-
I’m just getting tired of people saying we can’t move Hughes because he’s going to be so great, and at the same time saying we can’t move 3 or 4 of those minor league pitchers because they’re going to be so great.
People can take one position or the other, but it is an absurd waste to argue both.
GLove, by that token, how do you know Phil won’t turn into an ace? Although I’m doubtful of that ever happening, I don’t own or run the franchise. Giving up on starters after 1 year is a bad precedent to set……..
john_halfz November 19th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Uh, GB7. He’s the professor emeritus of physics at yale university. and a huge baseball fan. which is why he uses his tenure status to research baseball. and, like, attend basball games and stuff.
Take a look at the hittracker discussion of Mantle’s YS blast: http://www.hittrackeronline.co…..?id=1963_3
Ball traveling 600 feet under those conditions would have to leave bat at 150 MPH. Just not possible.
It doesn’t diminish the achievement to say that some of the longest HRs of all time weren’t hit as far as the mythology would have us believe.
———————————————————————————————————————-
uhh…like maybe he should like…you know…check with..like the two U Of M mathematicians and the witnesses they interviewed…like.
LGY November 19th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Chip,
How are we getting Floyd?
Still researching?
———————
Oh I have no bloody idea. I hate Gavin Floyd – wouldn’t touch him. The most logical guy to move if you pick up Upton is Swisher and I can’t see him going back to the White Sox and they don’t need Brett Gardner.
I would much prefer they spin Swisher to Washington for Jordan Zimmerman
I also don’t think the Yankees are in it on Upton…so I’m completely neutral on the idea.
Also, you just said that you would trade Phil……..so what makes him different than the 3 B’s (no more nicknames for me until they do it on the big league level)?
Betsy -
I think we all agree that after Cliff Lee and retaining the big 3 all this team needs to do is tinker around the edges – but when a player like Upton is made available Cashman wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t even consider dealing for him.
Betsy, are you talking to me?
You keep all the prospects with hopes that ONE of them develops into a rotation mainstay. Not all of these guys are going to be studs.
Remember when we had Hughes, Garcia, Horne, McAllister, Melancon Chamberlain, Heredia, Kennedy, Clippard all as our top prospects in 06-07?
3 years later… Garcia/Horne have been busts. Clippard/Chamberlain are middling relievers, Kennedy is in ARZ and would never have been a constant in our rotation, Heredia is still in low-A, McAllister was traded for a bench player, Melancon was traded for an old DH.
You just never know. Is anyone really going to put money on Brackman becoming a MLB stud? And the chances that 2nd tier arms like Nova, Warren, Phelps, etc. stick with us long term is slim.
We may have an abundance of riches now, but we should be fortunate if one of these 12 or so good arms we have turns into anything for us. And remember… being in a Yankee rotation is different from being in an MLB rotation, see: Ian Kennedy. You have to have special potential and somewhat immediate success for the Yanks to keep you in their rotation.
Chip, why would Cashman give up on Phil this soon? He didn’t trade him for Santana……..but he’s going to trade him for an OF they absolutely don’t need? Carmona? Floyd? No thanks – esp. Carmona.
I’m really surprised so many are trying to find some way to get Phil in a deal……..It’s then kind of hypocritical to get on my case for being down on him. If all of you who want to trade Phil for Upton really thought he was a future frontline starter, you wouldn’t be trying to find some way to trade him………even though Upton can be great.
Chip – he looked into it and decided the price was too high. IMO, from the Yankees perspective, for multiple reasons, Phil is not going to be offered.
“it is a no-brainer – I repeat, a no-brainer – to be willing to trade multiple minor pitchers to get a guy like Upton”
Of course it is. That’s why the diamondbacks would never accept such a moronic deal.
You don’t keep ‘em all, but, you don’t ship all of the best of ‘em off in the same deal for one outfielder that isn’t needed, yet.
I don’t see the Yankees signing both Lee and Crawford with 3 of the core 4 not under contract for 2011. Also, I think Crawford is the Angels main target and will overpay to secure him just like the Yankees will do with their main target, Lee.
“I think that before Cashman would consider moving Hughes he would gauge the trade market and see if there was a viable way for him to bring in a pitcher to replace Hughes.”
No doubt. He would have to have some moves lined up before he trades him.
For a player like Upton though…. I’d have no problem moving Hughes. It’s Hughes AND other studs that’s the problem. Hughes and a guy like Romine and Nova though? Sign me up.
You definitely don’t keep everyone. You deal from surplus and redundancy if the opportunity arises. With Sanchez/Romine/Montero you can deal one of them. With Betances/Banuelos/Brackman, you can deal one.
Just have to pick the right ones.
“3 years later… Garcia/Horne have been busts. Clippard/Chamberlain are middling relievers, Kennedy is in ARZ and would never have been a constant in our rotation, Heredia is still in low-A, McAllister was traded for a bench player, Melancon was traded for an old DH. ”
That’s why you think about trading the kids now, if you could get top major league talent in return.
Chip,
This is not about just Upton.
Get Floyd now and be proactive before Lee signs and Andy makes his decision. If you have Lee, Floyd, and Andy in tow then you explore some trade options. Maybe you even go crazy at that point and explore moving Hughesy.
Floyd makes only 5 mill next year. He is great insurance and easy to move.
So start concocting some ideas to get a hold of Floyd.
Chip-
It has already been reported that any interested team would need to overpay in order to acquire Upton. Arizona is in no rush to trade him, and they reportedly want 4 or 5 players that can help them now and in the future. We would probably have to gut our farm system in order to get him. My guess is that it would take Swisher or Gardner, Hughes or Montero, one of B’s, and Nova or Noesi.
Betsy November 19th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Chip – he looked into it and decided the price was too high. IMO, from the Yankees perspective, for multiple reasons, Phil is not going to be offered.
——————
I tend to agree with you on that one 100%
Wave,
How about “Cashman won’t move Hughes because he’s a cheap 24 yr old kid that just won 18 games for the Yanks last season and they already have two openings in the rotation as of today”?
Starting pitchers, especially young and good ones, don’t grow on trees.
I’m a fan of the youngsters (Betances, Brackman, and Banuelos) but anything could happen to these kids that may derail their careers/ceilings.
Hughes is more of a sure thing simply because he’s been in the league a few years now and has done very well.
“I would much prefer they spin Swisher to Washington for Jordan Zimmerman”
I don’t think feeding the Nat’s GM rufies would get that deal done.
Wave, I ‘m sorry, I don’t get your point.. Are you tired of people disagreeing with you?
The point I was trying to make is you aren’t that high on Phil…….but he was hyped more than these B’s are. So, you are willing to take the chance that Phil doesn’t develop because the B’s might? You might also feel about them after 1 year of starting as you do about Phil.
GB7. This has been pretty thoroughly documented by a number of sources, actually. I could give you a more complete bibliography, but I thought I’d offer a fun source that’s not too dense on the physics stuff.
It’s one thing not to believe in statistics or their predictive value. But not believing in physics and trigonometry seems kind of weird.
Anyway, you’re a pretty cranky guy. If you prefer to believe an inflated version of the truth, that’s fine. Though I might suggest that it’s curious that bigger and stronger (and enhanced) players since 1990 haven’t managed nearly a shot of that magnitude now that we have more precise tracking systems.
As a final note, since physics apparently doesn’t appeal, here’s what Baseball Almanac has to say: “It should be noted that those regular references over the years to 500- and 600-foot home runs were born out of scientific ignorance, misinformation, or even deliberate exaggeration. The most common cause for overstatement has been the basic misconception about the flight of a batted ball once it has reached its apex.” And here’s what BA has to say about Mantle’s Detroit blast: “From interviews with the surviving source of the original data, it is readily apparent once again that the all had bounced several times before it reached the estimated distance. “
Wave, no – that 1:58 comment was to GLove.
LGY November 19th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Chip,
This is not about just Upton.
Get Floyd now and be proactive before Lee signs and Andy makes his decision. If you have Lee, Floyd, and Andy in tow then you explore some trade options. Maybe you even go crazy at that point and explore moving Hughesy.
Floyd makes only 5 mill next year. He is great insurance and easy to move.
So start concocting some ideas to get a hold of Floyd.
—————————–
Well does it have to be Floyd? I mean I really don’t like him – not one bit.
Besides – the Yankees and White Sox just don’t match up well at all for a trade like that.
I could possibly see the two teams coming together on a deal for Carlos Quentin to serve as the RH bat off the bench for the Yankees much like they did with the Nick Swisher deal – but Floyd – just don’t see it.
“That’s why you think about trading the kids now, if you could get top major league talent in return.”
Exactly. And I would even throw Hughes in that mix, who I happen to love.
When you have as many arms as we do, it behooves you to be proactive. Look at that list above. It is easy, in hindsight, to say “Horne, Melancon, etc. were not that good”. Yet the talk about them on this and other blogs at the time, says otherwise.
When a special player like Upton becomes available, all no one should be untouchable.
Chip, and I agree with that…………I’m not so high on him anymore, but I’m not ready to deal him off for a player we don’t need. Sure, we have no idea if any of the younger kids will turn into anything, but this team sorely needs young pitching in the worst way – I’m tired of signing big ticket FAs. Lee is the last one I want for a long time.
Irreverent Discourse November 19th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
“I would much prefer they spin Swisher to Washington for Jordan Zimmerman”
I don’t think feeding the Nat’s GM rufies would get that deal done.
—————-
I didn’t necessarily mean 1-for-1; but those would be the key items
“You don’t keep ‘em all, but, you don’t ship all of the best of ‘em off in the same deal for one outfielder that isn’t needed, yet.”
This is all hypothetical, as I agree with Chip it isn’t going to happen, but you have to make the deals when the players are available, and Upton appears to be available now.
Plus, IMO, Upton is better than Gardner and Granderson, is locked up long term, and if Granderson or Swisher were moved would clear payroll space for other acquisitions down the road.
And, since we don’t know who the best minor league pitcher will be, trading them for top talent is a proven hedge strategy.
But, don’t worry, as brilliant as I am Cashman doesn’t ask me for advice.
So the two U Of M mathematicians with witnesses are ignorant?
Chip,
Ok. Fair enough. Just wondering, what’s wrong with Floyd.
What about Jar Jurrjens?
I think you may be able to pry him from Atlanta, because he is Arb1/
“Wave, I ‘m sorry, I don’t get your point.. Are you tired of people disagreeing with you?”
No, if I was I would cease being controversial.
Francesa and others are so quick to think Jeter to 3B and Alex to DH is a no brainer but that takes Alex’s bat out of the line-up during interleague and 1/2 th games of a WS.
Look at Gavin Floyd’s numbers the last 3 years… he is a more than fine replacement for Hughes. Very underrated. He had a rough last few starts, but he was one of the best pitchers in the AL for most of the year. Only 28. 3 good seasons under his belt… swing and miss stuff, eats innings.
Don’t know why K-Will would want to move him, but I would definitely investigate that.
# Dylan November 19th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Chip-
It has already been reported that any interested team would need to overpay in order to acquire Upton. Arizona is in no rush to trade him, and they reportedly want 4 or 5 players that can help them now and in the future. We would probably have to gut our farm system in order to get him. My guess is that it would take Swisher or Gardner, Hughes or Montero, one of B’s, and Nova or Noesi.
******************
Gardner + Montero + Brackman + Noesi fits your formula.
That’s about the extent of what I’d part with for Justin Upton but AZ probably would balk at that package.
I think they’d be crazy to pass up that package but it sounds like they’re unrealistic about Upton’s real value. They’re asking for a return on the 2009 version of Upton when it’s uncertain if he will perform at that level over a career with his nagging injury issues. It’s likely he falls somewhere between 2009 and 2010 but they’re not advertising him at that price.
So screw ‘em.
Betsy,
Trading a player =/= giving up on him.
You can think very highly of a player, but still be willing to move him.
No one should be untouchable, including Phil at the right price.
GF-
I would prefer trading the kids to trading Hughes.
My theme today has been trading the farm, not Hughes, for Upton, but people keep making me defend a Hughes trade…
SI_JonHeyman #yankees about to make 3 year, $45 mil offer to jeter.
Everybody cross your fingers, and hope he accepts it!
Justin Upton is not the 2nd coming of Mickey Mantle. Not even close. A nice ballplayer ? Yes, but not worthy of giving up talent with high upside in the Yankee system.
LGY November 19th, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Chip,
Ok. Fair enough. Just wondering, what’s wrong with Floyd.
What about Jar Jurrjens?
I think you may be able to pry him from Atlanta, because he is Arb1/
————————-
I don’t know – there’s just something about the body language that is very AJ/Jeff Weaver ish that makes me not trust him in a big spot.
As for Jurrjens – I think after the Javy thing Cash is done picking up pitchers who have struggled in the AL and been successful in the NL – Zimmerman is young enough that he may actually be a good pitcher and not just a national league pitcher.
My guy is still Brett Anderson
Did anyone notice the stats that Justin Christian has in the Mex league?? 122 AB 6 homeruns 22 RBIs 14 SB and the most impressive stat…..7 strike outs…WOW…
“Justin Upton is not the 2nd coming of Mickey Mantle”
He very well might be if he harnesses his potential over the next few years.
Dylan November 19th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
SI_JonHeyman #yankees about to make 3 year, $45 mil offer to jeter.
Everybody cross your fingers, and hope he accepts it!
—————————-
I still say there will be a 4th year invloved – either as an option with a big buyout or a guarantee.
If you trade hughes, who replaces him that has experience? Another high dollar .500 pitcher like De La Rosa? Sort of like pissin’n the wind, isn’t it?
“My guy is still Brett Anderson”
Would love him. Legit front-of-the-rotation young lefty.
LGY, they don’t need this player…I don’t care how talented he is. The fact that people are willing to try and figure out so many permutations to make a Phil trade work is very interesting to me……..
Wave, lol.
I can’t see Jeter accepting that.
# Wave Your Hat November 19th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
GF-
I would prefer trading the kids to trading Hughes.
My theme today has been trading the farm, not Hughes, for Upton, but people keep making me defend a Hughes trade…
———–
I still don’t understand the Upton talk. At all. Yeah, he’s a great talent but he simply doesn’t fit right now.
It’s pretty obvious Cashman is rather content with his outfield as it is now and the Yanks have plenty of other pressing needs.
“If you trade hughes, who replaces him that has experience? Another high dollar .500 pitcher like De La Rosa? Sort of like pissin’n the wind, isn’t it?”
The idea is, if you trade Hughes, is to have another trade for a similar young pitcher (i.e. Gavin Floyd, Jurrjens) lineup.
It’s all about maximizing assets.
Chip,
I don’t know if we can really call Jurrjens as a player who struggled in the AL.
It was only 30 innings and he was just 21 years old. I doubt that would scare Cash away.
I think Anderson would be too expensive too obtain.
I thought this is your favorite thing to do!! I finding the players and you are not playing fantasy GM? I set em up and you knock em down Chipster.
# Bret The Hitman November 19th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Gardner + Montero + Brackman + Noesi fits your formula.
That’s about the extent of what I’d part with for Justin Upton but AZ probably would balk at that package.
I think they’d be crazy to pass up that package but it sounds like they’re unrealistic about Upton’s real value. They’re asking for a return on the 2009 version of Upton when it’s uncertain if he will perform at that level over a career with his nagging injury issues. It’s likely he falls somewhere between 2009 and 2010 but they’re not advertising him at that price.
So screw ‘em.
__________________________________________________________________
Yeah, I think he is good, but not worth giving up 3-4 players that can all help us this year, and for the next bunch of years. Like you mentioned, he has injury concerns, plus he strikes out a ton. I think that he is a good player, but we simply don’t need him, and right now our starting rotation needs to be our #1 concern. If we were stacked with starting pitchers, then I would consider trading Hughes for a great young outfielder. But the FA market for pitchers is VERY weak, and we don’t know who is really available via trades.
Beane would demand Cano for Brett Anderson…so it’s not happening.
I’d be interested to see what he wants for Braden though.
The only site I can find on that, GB7, is http://www.themick.com. I guess you’re referring to a Dr. Susman (an avowed Mantle fan)?
Mantle wasn’t tall enough, he didn’t weigh enough, his arms weren’t long enough, he didn’t generate enough bat speed, the ball wasn’t pitched hard enough, etc., to corroborate the stated figure.
If the idea is that the ball rolled (as in the Washington HR), then perhaps. But eyewitness testimony is subject to skepticism that doesn’t even necessarily impugn the motives of the eyewitness.
Adair’s research and all other significant research on the parabolic flight of HR balls postdates Susman’s research, which appears to have consisted of asking people whether a ball actually reached a given spot.
Also, LGY, as I said – if you guys really thought Phil was going to be a true #1, you wouldn’t be thinking of dealing him. A true #1 pitcher is hard to find………and they don’t need Justin Upton to win.
LGY – The Granderson/Floyd proposal was probably the best one anyone can come up with lol… realistic and simple. No 3-4 team, 6 player deals.
I don’t understand the progression of Phil Hughes around here.
He was touted as the future ace.
He was untouchable in trades for what were the best pitchers in baseball at the time.
He finally arrived, performed beyond expectation in relief in 2009
In 2010 he put up one of the better inaugaural seasons a young yankee starter has ever had.
Now people are “down” on him and are willing to lose value to trade him away. Based on… nothing? Nothing at all.
Hughes is locked up for basically free until 2014, he is EVERY bit as valuable as Upton. Upton is not a “more special” talent. He is no more likely to be successful in the future than hguhes. To date, Hughes has arguably been more successful than Upton.
When a GM publicly states that they would move a player “only if someone was willing to overpay for him” you don’t turn around running to get your best chips and throw them at his feet.
The Yankee’s will have plenty of opportunity to trade for Upton before he signs his first contract in 2015.
Anyone that trades for him this year is a fool. They will not be improving their franchise by doing so. If they were, the diamondbacks would not be accepting the deal.
98NYY November 19th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Did anyone notice the stats that Justin Christian has in the Mex league?? 122 AB 6 homeruns 22 RBIs 14 SB and the most impressive stat…..7 strike outs…WOW…
———————————————————————————————————————-
I’ve been saying for a while that he’s a perfect #4 or #5 outfielder/bench player. Very good defensive 3 spot outfielder, could play 2nd in a pinch, has explovive speed and can hit with good gap type power. He’s been with NYYs before and is over the shoulder surgery…he can still throw as well as gardner.
GF-
If the Yanks sign Lee and Pettitte, which I believe they will, I don’t believe they have many pressing needs at all.
However, opportunities arise when they do. The thought of having Cano and Upton together in the lineup for the foreseeable future excites me tremendously.
# Betsy November 19th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
I can’t see Jeter accepting that.
_______________________________________________________________
Me neither, which is why I’m crossing my fingers! That would be a very good deal for the Yankees. I hope they increase the money though, before they add on years.
ID-
Nobody is “down” on Hughes.
Eroc, how do you know Phil won’t be better than that? If the Yankees think he’s a future ace (as they’ve thought for a few years now), they aren’t going to trade him. If they are not quite so high, they might – but again, it’s really foolish tomake a trade when you don’t know if other potential trades might come through.
Betsy,
If Upton were the next Pujols or even Rickey Henderson, I think you would agree with me that trading Hughes would be okay even it were tough to swallow.
That said, I don’t believe from what I’ve seen of Upton that he’s that. But a lot of people think he’s on that level or, at least, the level of the next Sheff.
I think manipulating and reshuffling your entire team to acquire one player is dangerous.
But we’re talking about a 23yo OF who is signed to a reasonable deal with all his best baseball in front of him.
Is a 23yo OF projected to be a franchise player worth an equally young future top of the rotation starter in Hughes?
I honestly don’t know. I think you have to look at your clubs strengths and weaknesses.
The Yankees weakness is starting pitching which is why I don’t blow up the farm and 2 young guys in Hughes and Nova who would be in the rotation next year for an OF’er when we have a good OF as it stands.
If Towers were willing to do the deal without Hughes though, then that means we definitely lose Montero and some of the AA pitchers who are projecting high right now.
I just don’t make the trade. I don’t care if the Red Sox get him as long as Towers doesn’t hand Upton to them on a silver platter. I’m hoping the Jays are willing to deplete their abundance of young players for Upton and make it tougher for the Red Sox to land him.
I would sit it out unless the deal was a fair one and not a clear overpay.
I keep saying it.
Jeter is going to get north of 60mil.
3/21, 3/18.9 with option and buyout, 4/18.9 something like this.
If he had not had a down year, he’d be looking for 80mil+
ID, I think Upton is a lot more likely to become a superstar OF than Phil is to become a true #1………but I agree with your general point.
“Also, LGY, as I said – if you guys really thought Phil was going to be a true #1, you wouldn’t be thinking of dealing him.”
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Betsy,
How do you know this?
Unless Hughes projects to be the best and most valuable player in baseball, there are always players I and others would trade him for.
For the Greinke lusters…take it for what it’s worth, considering the source:
•An AL executive explained to Sherman that he believes the Royals will trade Zack Greinke sooner rather than later for two reasons: the demand for ace-level starters is high and the Royals don’t want to see a personal or physical issue reduce Greinke’s value.
“If Towers were willing to do the deal without Hughes though, then that means we definitely lose Montero and some of the AA pitchers who are projecting high right now. ”
Based on that, I would rather lose Hughes than Montero AND highly rated AA-AAA arms.
Jeter will not take 3/45, although he should.
My issue here is we are all being asked to accept that Jeter is who he is and he deserves whatever he wants. Why should we all support him, if he clearly doesn’t care about the best interest of our team and ‘being a team player’ now? On field, he is not worth 15M anymore.
Jeter is my favorite modern yankee, but even i feel like it becomes harder to back him when he (through his agent), clearly doesn’t care about what’s best for the team.
GLove, no I wouldn’t……..I would not be ok for blowing up the team no matter how good the player is. Trading Phil means you have to turn yourself into knots figuring out how to replace him. To me, you only do that if you really want to get rid of him OR you’re not that high. If we had the pitching, I might do it because I honestly don’t see Phil right now as a true #1, but we don’t……….and because we don’t, and because we don’t need Upton, nope – I don’t do it. It’s all moot because I don’t think Cash is interested in dealing Phil.
mlbtraderumors
Yankees Interested In J.C. Romero
WYH – you must be reading a different message board if you don’t think people are “down” on hughes in this discussion.
# Wave Your Hat November 19th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
GF-
If the Yanks sign Lee and Pettitte, which I believe they will, I don’t believe they have many pressing needs at all.
However, opportunities arise when they do. The thought of having Cano and Upton together in the lineup for the foreseeable future excites me tremendously.
———–
But the thought probably doesn’t excite Cashman tremendously when he’s already content with the outfield he has now.
There were very few outfields in MLB more productive than Gardner, Granderson, and Swisher.
all of these measurements can’t be wrong.
http://www.themick.com/10homers.html#Home Run #1
LGY, ok then I apologize, but I don’t get the idea of trading a potential true #1 (if that’s what you think he is) for a potential superstar position player……..
# GreenBeret7 November 19th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
For the Greinke lusters…take it for what it’s worth, considering the source:
•An AL executive explained to Sherman that he believes the Royals will trade Zack Greinke sooner rather than later for two reasons: the demand for ace-level starters is high and the Royals don’t want to see a personal or physical issue reduce Greinke’s value.
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I feel we match up with the Royals in a 3 way with AZ included. The question is does Towers value Greinke?
Why wouldn’t he?
AZ lacks an ace and Greinke is definitely an ace in the NL West.
He’s better than Phil, that’s for sure.
ID, I’m one of those…….but I’m surprised at all the people who love Phil and who are still willing to twist themselves in knots to trade him for Upton.
“Anyone that trades for him this year is a fool. They will not be improving their franchise by doing so. If they were, the diamondbacks would not be accepting the deal.”
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This assumes that a team couldn’t overpay, like the Yankees are positioned to do as they are currently set up, and benefit at the same time.
You are getting too caught up in theoretical “value” instead of realistic assessment of where these prospects are going to fit.
Also, like Wave said no one is down on Hughes. Quite the opposite actually.
Being willing to trade a player is not evidence of how you feel or evaluate a player.
“WYH – you must be reading a different message board if you don’t think people are “down” on hughes in this discussion.”
I look at it differently – I see people that high op Upton and seduced by his “once in a generation” talent, Sheffield-like bat speed, along with his age, team-friendly contract. It’s not like the guy is all projection – he put up a .900 OPS season at age 21.
When a guy like that becomes available, of course everyone is available, in the minds of fans.
“Jeter will not take 3/45, although he should.”
If Derek won’t take that deal, maybe the Yanks should let him walk, replace him with Nunez, make Chip happy by signing both Lee and Crawford with the money saved, trade both Gardner and Granderson and a minor league pitcher for Upton, and keep Hughes.
And, we could all continue to wear “2″ Yankee jerseys to the games anyway.
Just a thought…
GB7 – I would never believe anything written on such a butt-ugly website.
I look at it differently – I see people that high op Upton and seduced by his “once in a generation” talent, Sheffield-like bat speed, along with his age, team-friendly contract. It’s not like the guy is all projection – he put up a .900 OPS season at age 21.
__
And last year?
A lot of people have really good years, followed by much less significant ones.
Bret – Greinke is 3 years older than hughes as well… so Hughes has had exactly 1 chance, 1 full season of starting to impress you.
Greinke had 24 starts his first year, with a 4 ERA, and 36 starts with a 5 ERA his second year.
Hughes doesn’t have to do a lot of work to be better than that.
“But the thought probably doesn’t excite Cashman tremendously when he’s already content with the outfield he has now.”
Now Cashman’s talking to you too, in addition to Chip and SJ44? I might as well admit I’m jealous!
YankeesWFAN
Yanks released RHP Jonathan Albaladejo, who will sign to play in Japan next season. 3 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter
Better than Hughes? Based on two years? How about this year? ERA jumps by 2 runs a game, strikeouts drop by over 50 and runs and hits jump by 25? Must have been just bad luck, huh? Bats got in the way of thrown pitches?
Betsy,
If you told me I could trade Phil Hughes for a 23 yo Arod, Pujols or Rickey Henderson I do it without a second thought and so would every other GM in baseball.
If Upton is going to be dealt, he will be long gone by the time Lee makes his decision there are interested teams that are not waiting on players to decide where they are going. Accordingly, this Yankee/Upton speculation is meaningless. Also, Cashman can go after a Crawford and/or Werth and not give up any prospects.
Irreverent Discourse November 19th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
GB7 – I would never believe anything written on such a butt-ugly website.
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The info all came from different sources and sites. Believe what you want.
Put it this way, if the Royals put Greinke on the block and ultimately deal him while the Yankees do the same with Phil, who gets the higher return in value?
Don’t be ridiculous.
If Hughes turns into Matt Garza, I’d consider it a success. You don’t have to be an ace to be valuable.
Don’t think Cashman has $15-18 million dollars available to pay Crawford/Werth this year, otherwise, he probably would.
The guy Cash should be focused on is Lee and Crawford. Lock them up and it opens up all the trade possibilities you can imagine.
WCYF-
I don’t think it’s so obvious how quickly Upton will be dealt. That possibility could hang fire for a while.
And despite my tongue in cheek comment above, I don’t see how the Yanks could sign both Lee and Crawford/Werth.
By all of your logic, is Granderson not also a “once in a generation” player?
He had a significantly better season in ’07 than Upton’s ’09, and he’s still trying to live up to that. You all kill him for it on a regular basis, in fact.
Upton’s projection as a high-level talent is no more reality than Hughes’ projection as a front-line starter because of one good season.
you dream up these stupid trade ideas and then tell people to not be ridiculous? just perfect irony.
# Wave Your Hat November 19th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
And despite my tongue in cheek comment above, I don’t see how the Yanks could sign both Lee and Crawford/Werth.
**************
Vazquez + Johnson off the books. Paycut to Jeter to buffer raises to others. Pettitte retires. Swisher moves
OR (if you’re bullish on Pettitte and keeping Swish)
Vazquez + Johnson off the books + Yanks spend 1 year early with anticipated flexibility with Posada (13) + Marte (4) + Pettitte (10? give or take a couple mil) after 2011.
“Jeter is my favorite modern yankee”
It’s going to be interesting to see how the fan base is split between the Jeter lovers and Jeter haters (okay, detractors at least) if this thing turns into a saga. It seems obvious that a 3-yr, $50m deal would be overpaying for him, yet we’re led to believe that’s about only half of what the Jeter camp is looking for. If that’s true, I find it staggering that a player – even Mr. modern-day Yankee himself – could be trying to screw an organization that has already paid him $209m in wages (you can probably double that with all his endorsements). Personally, I’d tell the greedy basterds to take a hike.
Wave Your Hat November 19th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
WCYF-I don’t think it’s so obvious how quickly Upton will be dealt. That possibility could hang fire for a while. And despite my tongue in cheek comment above, I don’t see how the Yanks could sign both Lee and Crawford/Werth.
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If Lee goes elsewhere, the Yankees might go after an outfielder so they can try to move Swisher, Gardner or Granderson for a pitcher. Interest in Upton seems high right now – and again, FA are more appealing as you don’t have to give up prospects.
Bret-
But don’t forget to add back in exercised options and raises to Cano and Swisher $5.25M), the scheduled pay increase to Granderson ($1.75M), and arbitration raises to Hughes, Chamberlain, Gardner, Robertson and others. Plus possibly replacing Andy. It doesn’t really leave enough to pay Crawford or Werth.
All of you who are advocating that we trade away all the Good Young CHEAP talent we have in the system and take on 45MM in contract commitments to a 33yr old Lee and a 30yr old Crawford thereby ending up with a starting 9 of 30+yr olds making about 20mm @ every position clearly overlook Ca$h stated mission of payroll flexibility.
As far as where are these guys going to fit in the ‘ro in the next couple of years how’s this for hypo’s…
2012 The Yanks trade AJ Burnett and cash to whomever after Burnett bounces back to win 18 games in ’11 and the starting 5 are CC,Lee,Hughes,Bettances,Brackman reducing the salry of their rotation from 90MM( CC, Lee, Pett, AJ, Hughes) to less than 50MM and replacing a 35yr old and 40 yr old with a 26yr old and a 23yr old
Wave Your Hat – If Lee doesn’t sign all budget bets are off and the Yankees will be in scramble mode. I believe that. If it means another $10 million a year they will have to do it.