Three Yankees “targets” I’m not buying
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 20, 2010 
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In one way or another, these three have been linked to the Yankees, sometimes with nothing more than speculation. In one way or another, they all make sense for the Yankees, but I’m not sold on any of them as a legitimate fit.
Bill Hall
Makes sense because… He’s a utility man who could give Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter their necessary days off while also helping in the outfield corners.
Not a fit because… There aren’t enough infield at-bats to justify the cost. The Yankees need to give Rodriguez and Jeter days off, but combined those two aren’t going to be sitting out as many as 10 games a month. Hall is overkill unless he’s willing to accept a tiny contract. Even then, his time at shortstop has been extremely limited the past four years. The Yankees have had luck with midseason bench additions – Hairston, Hinske, Berkman — and if they discover they need an impact utility-type, the past has shown that those sort of players are readily available on the trade market.
Justin Upton
Makes sense because… He’s young, talented and has a contract that makes sense. Upton makes sense for every team in baseball.
Not a fit because… The Yankees have a good outfield as it is. Absolutely Upton would be a positive addition – the kid’s good — but the Diamondbacks are understandably asking for a significant return. Upton’s availability meant Brian Cashman had to make a phone call, but the Yankees have built a good farm system that’s ready to help at catcher and on the verge of restocking the rotation and bullpen. Why give that up to plug a hole that doesn’t exist? Upton is a nice dream, but not a realistic one. Worth the contract, but not worth the cost.
Miguel Olivo
Makes sense because… Jorge Posada is no longer an everyday catcher, Francisco Cervelli has never been an everyday catcher and Jesus Montero is an unknown at the major league level.
Not a fit because… The Yankees aren’t going into next season with only one of Posada, Cervelli and Montero. They have all three, and all three give the Yankees a solid situation behind the plate. Defense is not going to be a strength there, but Cervelli will probably be better defensively than he was this season, and both Posada and Montero bring significant offensive potential. Bringing in Olivo would suggest the Yankees don’t think Montero can handle the job, and most indications are the opposite, that it’s time to put Montero behind the plate and see what happens.
Just say no to Justin Upton .
Bill Hall, I think, will drop off a cliff next season .
Not literally .
“that it’s time to put Montero behind the plate and see what happens.”
yes sir
The Justin Upton one just all depends on the price tag. We haven’t heard exactly what the D’backs asked for from the Yankees…it may have been so outrageous that Cashman just didn’t even bother and we may never hear….he’s worth giving up talent for, just probably not as much as they want.
I agree with all 3 in the “not a fit” catagory.
Between Tony Pena and Butch Wynegar, all the catchers will be worked with and drilled hard with fundamentals. Special attention will be given to Montero and Cervelli. After spring training, Wynegar will pick up where he left off with Romine at AAA.
I’m on the way to the Cal-Stanfurd football game, but I don’t know if I can enjoy it knowing that our new pitching coach hasn’t detailed his injury-prevention program.
This could make it harder to enjoy Thanksgiving too.
;cry:
Another reason to cry.
The only one that I don’t agree with Chad about is Miguel Olivo (or someone of his ilk). My reasoning is Cervelli … the more time he plays, the more he gets exposed for the AAAA player he tops out at. I think the time has come to thank him for his service to the Yankees, bid him a fond adieu, and see if another team wants to develop him into something more than he is at this point.
I like the idea of having a 3 catcher rotation of Montero (the future stud star), Posada (the aging vet who can both mentor and provide a quality bat behind the plate on ocassion), and a serviceable vet who is decent both behind the plate and with the stick (i.e. Olivo).
Pena hasn’t shown the ability to improve anyone. He already is the coach responsible for the worst defensive catchers in the league.
I don’t think you need to spend money or a roster spot on a veteran catcher. Montero-Posada-Cervelli are enough. If Cervelli doesn’t improve and becomes a liability – it’s easy to pick up a veteran catcher almost at will.
Nick, aint it the truth?
“He already is the coach responsible for the worst defensive catchers in the league.”
He’s nearly 40 years old….whats Vmart’s excuse?
# blake November 20th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
“He already is the coach responsible for the worst defensive catchers in the league.”
He’s nearly 40 years old….whats Vmart’s excuse?
lol
Nick in SF…..I have Cal + 7 and the unders @ 49….Hoping the wet track helps this cause ……
Blake, absolutely. To me, VMart is now a 1B-DH for any team that values defense and has another option (Bosox did not).
It’s the height of absurdity to blame Peña. He’s considered to be a terrific baseball mind and an excellent coach. You think he would be there if he wasn’t more than competent? You can teach and teach forever, but it’s up to the player to execute. Some have physical limitations such as size, speed, etc. Some just are better athletes than others.
The same concept holds true for pitching and hitting coaches. They aren’t miracle workers.
Why would I think Cervelli is going to be better? He’s just not very good…………I still think Montero and Posada should split the catching duties (assuming Montero has a decent spring and doesn’t look awful behind the plate).
I agree completely about Upton
I don’t think Posada is going to catch much next season.
Cervelli will be better because he won’t be behind the plate as much as he did this year.
It’s that simple.
“Why would I think Cervelli is going to be better?”
Mainly because he was always seen as a pretty good defender in the minors. He had to play way too much last year than he was ready for and he’s just not that type of player. (plus he had to catch AJ and Javy a lot). In a reduced role I think he could be better defensively with the experience he gained last season….offensively he’s probably never going to hit much. They may just use him to catch AJ next year and let Montero/Posada catch the rest.
Maybe they go with this initially:
Montero catches CC, Lee (if signed), and Hughes. (Posada DH’s)
Posada catches Pettite (if returns). (Montero DH’s)
Cervelli catches AJ. (Posada or Montero DH’s).
True, you can coach and coach, etc. BUT, if the failures don’t count against a coach then the flipside is that people on this blog need to stop acting like Yankee coaches are saviors…
Eiland was praised as a great coach (until he left) yet failed with AJ, Vasquez and Joba.
Long is absolutely worshipped here yet the Yankee offense was woefully inconsistent and numerous players had years far off their career norms.
Pena’s catchers are the worst.
Blake, I just don’t think he’s very good and I really don’t want to see him very often.
I have major reservations about having Montero catch the majority of games and also expecting him to hit reasonably well.
I also don’t buy the AJ/Javy thing….
Blake, I think it’s a mistake to have Montero catch Phil. I want Jorge catching Phil………….
Agree with Carl and Blake. Cervelli made it to the show for a reason. He was relied upon far too much last season.
Why shouldn’t Montero catch Hughes? Based on what? He hasn’t even made the team yet no one can possible know what’s best at this point.
Betsy,
How do you know who should catch anybody when they have never worked together. Montero is likely going to catch Hughes a lot in the future…they have to start somewhere. It depends on how Montero progresses and how many games a week they want Posada to catch.
WC, I’m not allowed to have my opinion? I don’t want a young catcher catching a young pitcher ……… a young pitcher who has a lot of stuff still to work on, not to mention a young catcher who has a lot to work on.
Blake, really?. You can suggest that Montero catch certain pitchers and Posada others, but I can’t? I never said that Montero should never catch Phil………did I?
Hasn’t most of Montero’s career been spent catching young pitchers who’ve had a lot to work on?
Plus, the one thing you read when you hear about Montero’s catching is that he works great with pitchers and receives the ball well.
Betsy – of course you can have an opinion. I am wondering what you are basing your opinion on? How can anyone possibly know what’s best if Montero hasn’t even caught one game? Age is not an automatic qualifier or a disqualifier.
When the majority of the games you catch is catching AJ and Navy (two guys that don’t hold runners….AJ in particular ) then its bound to not be easy on a rookie catcher who is already swimming in deeper water than he’s ready for. A great percentage of Cervelli’s mistakes last year were mental and a result of his inexperience IMO. Put him in a backup role with a year under his belt and im betting he will be better.
WC, it’s my opinion. Phil has a lot to work on with his breaking pitches, etc……and I prefer a veteran catcher. Period.
AJ allowed the most stolen bases in the league. I think he allowed more than Pavano.
Throwing out runners isn’t always on the catcher.
The pitcher has to give the catcher a chance.
Betsy, makes sense to me.
Blake, I guess we’re not agreeing much on anything today……….but, we will find out next year.
Betsy,
Didn’t you say you thought it was a mistake for Montero to catch him?
The catcher isn’t going to make Phil throw a curve.
Phil is going to throw what he wants to throw.
Blake, you said they’d probably be a battery mates for a long time, so might as well start now…..To me that has nothing to do with it. What I’m saying is that Phil is hardly a finished product. Whatwith his trying to improve his breaking pitches and pitch selection, with trying to finish off hitters, etc…….I prefer a veteran catcher.
AldotheApache November 20th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Betsy, makes sense to me.
*********************
Translation. He doesn’t think it makes sense at all. He only says so to disagree with me. I will be pointing this out every time he does so.
I don’t have a problem at all with Jorge catching Hughes and that probably would be preferable but we don’t know how many games he’s going to catch a week. He may only catch one….
# Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Blake, you said they’d probably be a battery mates for a long time, so might as well start now…..To me that has nothing to do with it. What I’m saying is that Phil is hardly a finished product. Whatwith his trying to improve his breaking pitches and pitch selection, with trying to finish off hitters, etc…….I prefer a veteran catcher.
He had a veteran catcher this year.
It didn’t help.
Jorge is going to be the DH this year, that’s already been made clear. It’s time to move on. Neither Montero nor Hughes is best served with Posada catching them as this will be probably be his last year. This is not war and peace this is baseball. It’s time already to make the transition to the players of the future.
They may feel Posada is a little too veteran at this point. We don’t know how often he will even be behind the plate yet.
I’m not about to blame Jorge because Phil can’t throw a breaking pitch……..I didn’t blame Eiland either. I didn’t blame Long for the hitters struggles in the post-season.
Blake, I know……………but (and I believe Patrick has argued this as well), I think it would be best to split the duties (IF Montero shows in ST he’s capable) between the two. If the Yankees do that, than Jorge can catch Phil. I just think asking Montero to lead a pitching staff AND be solid offensively is asking too much…………and I don’t think it’s necessary for Jorge to be a full-time DH just because he can’t catch 140 games.
How did this become about Phil Hughes?
Betsy,
I hope Posada can catch 60-80 games. That would be good. It would keep him sharp and would limit the workload on Montero as well as he’s learning. I wasn’t trying to set in stone.who should catch who…..a lot of that will depend on how much Jorge can be back there.
# blake November 20th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
How did this become about Phil Hughes?
You gave suggestions on who should be catching who.
Betsy disagreed.
Now its about Phil throwing curves and change ups blah blah blah.
Phil Hughes has a great breaking pitch Betsy. He just needs to work on getting it over for strikes and to develop a little more confidence in it. I also think he needs to slow it down a bit at times. He has had trouble with it but that’s just growth pains for a young pitcher.
Baseball America said this in 2007:
“Hughes’ greatest accomplishment as a pro has been to forsake his slider in favor of a knockout curveball, which is more of a strikeout pitch and produces less stress on his arm. It’s a true power breaking ball that sits in the low 80s with 1-to-7 break. Club officials call it the best in the system because Hughes can throw it for quality strikes or bury it out of the zone, and because he uses the same arm slot and release point he uses for his fastball”.
West Coast Yankee Fan November 20th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
AldotheApache November 20th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Betsy, makes sense to me.
*********************
Translation. He doesn’t think it makes sense at all. He only says so to disagree with me. I will be pointing this out every time he does so.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now he’s the blog mind reader. And everyone’s world revolves around him.
Idiot.
Do not respond to any of my posts.
Do not attempt to engage me in a conversation.
I’m neither interested nor inclined to deal with your drivel.
Have respect for the other bloggers and do not attempt to degenerate this blog, as you have done in the past with several others here. It appears to be one of the reasons some very engaging bloggers are not here during the winter … at times, there are not enough bloggers here to drown you out.
I bet they will let Cervelli catch AJ and then split the other 4 up 2 each for awhile and see how it goes.
Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
I don’t want a young catcher catching a young pitcher ……… a young pitcher who has a lot of stuff still to work on, not to mention a young catcher who has a lot to work on.
————————————–
THIS makes sense.
blake, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cervelli is not even on the roster next season.
Best case scenario with him is, as someone already mentioned, a lighter work load will enable him to stay more effective.
Blake, I just responded to one of your posts; this would not have become about Phil had no one responded to my post.
I’ll keep pointing it out Aldo. If you don’t like it. Tough huh?
don’t know if you’ll see them carry 3 catchers
WC, so as this doesn’t become about Phil (since we’re never going to agree and it’s pointless to argue), I’m going to drop the subject at least in terms of his own performance…………..except to say that was in 2007, a long time ago.
Also,
Unless they sign another catcher I think he will be. I don’t see them going in with a rookie and Posada who has had trouble staying healthy….too much risk. They just need to hope that Montero and Posada can catch enough so that Cervelli remains the backup and not the primary as he pretty much was last year.
Blake, I agree…………Cervelli is going to be on the team; I just don’t want to see too much of him.
Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
WC, so as this doesn’t become about Phil (since we’re never going to agree and it’s pointless to argue), I’m going to drop the subject at least in terms of his own performance…………..except to say that was in 2007, a long time ago.
***********
LOL ok. I know you don’t like discussing Hughes. Just try to keep an open mind though and let things play out before deciding whether they are going to work or not. I’m sure the Yankees staff will be all over that in Spring Training. If Montero isn’t ready he won’t be catching. If he is, don’t we have to give the coaching staff the benefit of the doubt that they know more than we do – and at least see what happens?
West Coast Yankee Fan November 20th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
I’ll keep pointing it out Aldo. If you don’t like it. Tough huh?
——————————————————
And you continue to try to engage me. This is after you claim that I’M obsessed with YOU, and after you warn others to stay clear of me.
Got a man crush with me, nancy Wanted me all for yourself, pudgy?
Idiot.
You’ve been warned. If you persist, I’ll be forced to box you about the ears (again) … and I will have to insist on better material from you.
Keeping Molina last year would have been great.
Don’t know why people hated him. He was great since we picked him up back in 2007.
He wouldn’t have gave us much O. But he would have been a much better backstop then Cervelli.
Betsy,
Is once a week too much? We know Posada isn’t catching Burnett and Im not so sure its a great idea for Montero to either…though he might do just fine.
watching Jorge catch at this point is tough to do
blake November 20th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Also,
Unless they sign another catcher I think he will be.
————————————–
That’s what I think will happen.
For what it’s worth, I don’t care one way or the other who catches who, that’s Girardi’s job to determine, and I’m sure he and his coaches will do what’s best for the team. Personally, I don’t care for the pitcher needing a personal catcher, never did. As for Upton, my hope that trade is not completed by the Yankees. First, he’s had shoulder troubles for 2 years running, and missed most of last Sept. & Oct. Second, to obtain Upton would be too costly, thus emptying the top prospects from AAA & AA, and should we need some of those trade chips mid season, they’d be gone. I like the team we have, with adding some bench power, a LDRP, and of cause Lee. We finished 2 games short of the WS this year, we do not have to re-do the entire roster. JMO.
WC, that has nothing to do with it. Discussing Phil only leads to arguments on this board and since I’m the one in the minority, I’m just simply not in the mood to take it on the chin. If I thought there could be reasonable discussion on the board, I would, but I’ve been through the wars and I don’t think we can.
Sign Bengie Molina then.
Montero and Bengie.
Posada DH.
AldotheApache November 20th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan November 20th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
I’ll keep pointing it out Aldo. If you don’t like it. Tough huh?
——————————————————
“You’ve been warned….”
*****************
LMAO! Threatening people on the internet? What are you going to do? Get lost troll.
Aldo,
They may do that and that would be ok.
Also, I never said Montero wasn’t ready to catch…………..all I said was that in general, I prefer veteran catchers to work with younger pitchers. I don’t care if it’s Phil or Nova or some other unknown youngster. WC, I just wanted to clarify that.
a year older a year slower ….teams will run wild on him, got a taste of that towards the end of this year
Also, I think Cervelli is an adequate BU catcher. His problem this season was he caught too many games, tired, and was over exposed.
Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
WC, that has nothing to do with it. Discussing Phil only leads to arguments on this board and since I’m the one in the minority, I’m just simply not in the mood to take it on the chin. If I thought there could be reasonable discussion on the board, I would, but I’ve been through the wars and I don’t think we can.
**********
That’s up to you. I think when you provide a rationale for why you think a certain way, it’s very well received.
Blake, I don’t think once a week is too much, but it appears that that the Yankees think so. I hope for their sakes that Montero is lights out in ST as they are putting a lot of their eggs in his basket.
Carl,
I could live with that one.
The Yankees have figured on Montero catching about 90-100 games this year and Posada about 50 if healthy. Cervell will catch maybe 10-15 starts and a lot of late inning relief. Other than that, how about waiting to see in Spring Training how it works out. They’ll know mid-way through who’s catching who. Cervelli is also injury insurance woth Posada and Montero doing the bulk of the DH work. He’s another that may be learning other positions to play in blowouts, like 3rd, 1st and cornrt outfield. November 20th is a little early to be getting [anties in a wad over anything, but, they’ve been getting wadded up on everything, daily.
# Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
WC, that has nothing to do with it. Discussing Phil only leads to arguments on this board and since I’m the one in the minority, I’m just simply not in the mood to take it on the chin. If I thought there could be reasonable discussion on the board, I would, but I’ve been through the wars and I don’t think we can.
It’s not possible to have a reasonable discussion.
When you have your mind made up, you don’t budge.
For example, with Tex. You said he wasn’t a superstar. I said he was, with a chance to be a Hall of Famer.
The numbers back it up.
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......d=13020163
mlbnetwork agrees.
But you don’t think so because he starts off slow.
WC, I’ve provided rationales for my opinions on Phil……….they haven’t been good enough for people. I’m not trying to change anyone’s minds – it’s not my place to do so……….I just don’t like being made to feel as if my opinion is invalid because no one else here agrees. That’s why I don’t care to discuss these things in great detail.
I mentioned Phil only in response to Blake’s post. I was not intending to discuss his future prospects as that has been done to death.
Like I said, come up with new material.
Idiot.
Carl, there’s no point in me responding to that. You’ve decided why it is I don’t think he’s a HOFer and so I’m not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise. Think what you will…………..
I don’t care if MLB network agrees; I’m not a sheep. I don’t think Tex is a great player ……….if you want to think that’s insulting, that’s all on YOU.
WCYF & Aldo
This act is getting old. This is a Yankees blog, not a sand box for kids to throw things at each other. Why can’t you both just agree to ignore each other, for the sack of those that wish to discuss baseball, and not get into the personal attacks. I don’t care who started it, and I don’t care who’s right or wrong. The two of you do more to disrupt this blog than anyone, please stop, once and for all.
still can’t see them with 3 catchers in which two of them do the same thing DH & catch, would be better served with the extra utility player who can play in & of or the extra RP
** sake ** not sack
# Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Carl, there’s no point in me responding to that. You’ve decided why it is I don’t think he’s a HOFer and so I’m not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise. Think what you will…………..
He’s on pace to be a hall of famer. I’m not saying he is. Anything can happen from now til the end of his career. But look at the numbers. Click the video and see how he compares to Gehrig and McCovey through games played.
The numbers don’t lie.
Posada will catch 60 games. Montero 80 games. Cervelli 20 games. Romine 2 games when he’s called up in September. Any injuries can change the numbers.
DH at bats can be split up between Posada, Montero, and occasional games by Jeter, A-Rod, Granderson, and Swisher.
# Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
I don’t care if MLB network agrees; I’m not a sheep. I don’t think Tex is a great player ……….if you want to think that’s insulting, that’s all on YOU.
So agreeing with the obvious make’s me a sheep!?!?!
So I should disagree to be different?
Ok Al.
The quietness of the Lee negotiations are killing me. I was mad when I thought the Yanks had him in July to only lose out at the last minute.
I am trying to not get my hopes up to get the rug pulled out on me once again. I really want him to be in NY next yr.
What is anyone else hearing/feeling? Once again I live in Texas and only hearing Ranger propaganda.
Carl, please…….Gehrig?
If he gets in the HOF, IMO he will get in as a very good player, not as an all-time great….. I don’t have any problems with you thinking he’s a great player, so I’m sorry the reverse isn’t true.
Betsy -
Your opinions are as valuable as anyone else’s, that’s why they are called opinions. Opinions do not have to follow those of other people’s thinking, it’s just how you feel on a subject, and you need not defend them.
GB7,
Let’s hope that’s how it works out. That would probably be an ideal number but as you say they don’t need to decide it now. They can see how it goes when the games start.
Carl, I didn’t say that……..but I am not going to agree with you or MLB network just because they think Tex is great. I have no problems with their opinions or yours………I’m just not going to change my mind because supposedly everyone else thinks so.
# Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Carl, please…….Gehrig?
If he gets in the HOF, IMO he will get in as a very good player, not as an all-time great….. I don’t have any problems with you thinking he’s a great player, so I’m sorry the reverse isn’t true.
Did you even watch the video?
BIG AL, I haven’t had an issue with you up- to now, and don’t wish to start.
But if you’re reading this thread, then it’s clear to see that this moron is trying to instigate an argument.
When it’s plain to see this, then I do not deserve to be lumped together with that schlub.
If you cannot be bothered with reading the actual comments to see what’s actually happening, then don’t comment and insult me.
Big Al, that’s how I feel as well……..but discretion is the better part of valor. I have no problem being in the minority, but I also don’t feel the need to explain or defend myself all the time. That’s why it’s better, IMO, for certain subjects to simply be avoided. This board is supposed to be fun; if I want to exchange insults, I’ll do it with my family……..
Betsy – I think the problem with Teixeira is that there is almost universal agreement that he is a great player. Accordingly, it might be helpful to provide some backup for your contention that he isn’t. You could be right – but I think just saying something without justifying it is what gets it going.
He has only played 8 years and is averaging 35 home runs and 113 RBI’s a season with a .377 OBP. He is also considered to be the best defensive first baseman today.
What is your case?
As I said Al. I agree with no qualifiers.
i cannot wait until i wake up and open the internet up in the near future and get some great yankee player movement deals…
I will never forget when I woke to the news of CC signing with the Yanks and out doing XMAS shopping when sports talk radio broke the news of Tex signing….
What will it be this yr and when…It is killing me…
WC, I have no idea if there’s universal agreement on Tex being great, but I don’t think there is (there’s rarely universal agreement on anything, anyway). If there were, it wouldn’t make a difference to me.
Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
I have no problem being in the minority, but I also don’t feel the need to explain or defend myself all the time.
———————————————–
Betsy, you said it right the first time, you’re entitled to your opinions.
And anyone else is entitled to disagree.
But that doesn’t mean you should be asked to explain or defend yourself.
Opine on!!!!!
Carl -
I’m sorry, I love Tex, and think of him as a good ball player, that could be very good to great one day, but, his numbers are not there yet. To compare him to, what I consider the greatest player of all time, Lou Gehrig, is far from realistic. The only thing they have in common is the team and position.
Lou Gehrig – 17 Seasons
BA .340, OBP .447, SLG .632, OPS 1.080, OPS+ 178, Fld% .990
Tex – 8 Seasons
BA .286, OBP .377, SLG .536, OPS .913, OPS+ 134, Fld% .994
Tell me again, how does Tex get into the same conversation with Gehrig? I don’t see it.
Blake, as far as Montero goes, everyone in the system knows that he needs polishing on defense, but, apparently, the plan is for him to attend the Tony Pena College For Advanced Catchers, and other than fans that haven’t seen him and idiots like Sherman, Law and Neyer, fewer and fewer are referring to his size as a reason he can’t be a catcher. The Yanks and Wynegar has said it’s just a matter of getting used to the footwork change.
Personally, I like the idea of having young players, catchers and infielders in particular to take dance classes to work on footwork and rhythm. Cervelli, who knows…maybe the extra work caught up with him, but, the troubles existed all year long. Pena also works a lot with Posada, but, he just never seemed to have a solid and healthy base keep under him. Bad legs make for bad throws more than bad arms. anyway, I’m going to wait for a few months before my panties wad up.
How would you quantify Hughes’s season?
Good? Mediocre? Bad?
Aldo, I don’t even mind explaining my opinions; I mean, this is a blog and that’s what it’s for. However, when I’ve done so, I’ve gotten some not-so-nice responses……….therefore, I’ve concluded my answers haven’t been good enough. That’s why I’ve basically bowed out.
Tom, are you directing that question to me?
My thought on the catching situation next season is that who does what when will be conditioned by how things shake out after ST.
I’m sure the Yanks have their plans and preferences but reality sometimes has a way of changing ‘em.
They are going to have to SEE a few things before final decision decisions are taken.
# BIG AL November 20th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Carl -
I’m sorry, I love Tex, and think of him as a good ball player, that could be very good to great one day, but, his numbers are not there yet. To compare him to, what I consider the greatest player of all time, Lou Gehrig, is far from realistic. The only thing they have in common is the team and position.
Lou Gehrig – 17 Seasons
BA .340, OBP .447, SLG .632, OPS 1.080, OPS+ 178, Fld% .990
Tex – 8 Seasons
BA .286, OBP .377, SLG .536, OPS .913, OPS+ 134, Fld% .994
Tell me again, how does Tex get into the same conversation with Gehrig? I don’t see it.
Through his age 30 season.
I said hes on pace to be a HOF. Obviously he won’t be as great as Gehrig as Lou is the best first basemen of all time. And a top 10 player of all time.
But AL, does that mean Tex isn’t great?
Betsy – I said “almost” universal. But, in any event his first eight years have been stellar statistically and at 30 years of age he has hit 275 home runs. He’s on track to hit over 500.
I have been very critical of Teixeira for his slow starts and slumps but by all objective means of measurement he is a great player.
I sincerely would love to know why, given the stats I provided, you don’t think so. This is a very reasonable and polite conversation don’t you agree?
Betsy -
Are you Irish? My best friend is Irish, and I’ve never seen family go at each other like they do. He tells me that’s the way it is in Irish families, I just have to believe him, but, I’m smart enough to stand clear when they get going, lol.
GreenBeret7 November 20th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
… other than fans that haven’t seen him and idiots like Sherman, Law and Neyer, fewer and fewer are referring to his size as a reason he can’t be a catcher.
I kept reading the same thing. Then one day, I read a post that points out how Joe Mauer is 6’5, 230.
Haven’t given it a second thought since.
Betsy,
When I ask you something its always meant for discussion…I.wasn’t trying to.attack you. Just so you know.
GB,
I’ve read an heard many others claim that his defense isn’t as bad as he is given credit for and from what I saw this year he didn’t look to bad. Im glad they are giving him a real chance this spring and all we can hope is that he runs with it and proves all the Laws wrong.
edit: “decision” not “decision decisions”.
Got to watch out of for those ultimate decision decisions.
They are really final.
WC, by saying that by “all objective means” he’s a great player it diminishes my opinion………..His #s are very good, but when the Yankees need him in April of 2009, he was awful. Alex is the guy who carries this team, not Tex. Sure when he gets hot he gets hot ……..but we needed him and he wasn’t there. He was awful again in April this year, had a good streak at the beginning of May, but then went into another tailspin. His accumulated stats look very good and they are, but no, IMO, he’s not a great player.
Teixeira may not be equal to Gehrig with the bat, but he is more than the equal to first basemen like Stargell, McCovey and the first basemen of the last 5-60 years, so far. On defense, he has few equals of any over the last 60 years, with Mattingly and Hernandez just slightly ahead of him. Morneau, if he can overcome the concussions is right there with him on defense and maybe slightly ahead. He’s not Pujols with the bat but Pujols isn’t Teixeira with a glove. For me, that’s pretty damned select company.
Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Aldo, I don’t even mind explaining my opinions; I mean, this is a blog and that’s what it’s for. However, when I’ve done so, I’ve gotten some not-so-nice responses……….therefore, I’ve concluded my answers haven’t been good enough. That’s why I’ve basically bowed out.
———————————————-
Actually, Betsy, I read those comments, both yours and theirs, which is why I wrote what I just posted.
It’s when someone sets out to try to prove YOU wrong (and THEY’RE right), that’s when it’s over the top.
It’s a blog, not a competition.
Big Al, no – I’m Jewish, lol. I said family because if I want to argue to the point of being insulting, I’d rather do it with people who care about me than with perfect strangers. A little arguing on a board is good, but when it comes to my opinions regarding Phil (as an example), forget it. I’ve had my words twisted and my opinions devalued. I dont’ need to put up with that garbage………I wouldn’t like it from my family, but they are my family. I’m not going to put up with that from people I don’t know.
Blake, you are a great poster and you’ve never had one post where you came close to attacking or even invalidating my opinions.
Alex is one of the greatest players of all time. He’s Legendary.
When it’s all said and done, you can argue he will be next to Willie as the greatest all around player of all time.
That’s what he is suppose to do.
Carl -
Had you asked me this question 2 years ago, my answer might have been yes. However, today, I keep getting this sick feeling he may have peaked, and his better seasons are behind him. I pray that I’m wrong, but, it appears each season he slumps more, and for longer periods, he does not contribute in the post sean either. Great players have the ability to carry teams, and contribute in big situations, as A-Rod did in the 2009 WS. One only has to look at history to know the cream rises to the top when his team needs him. I’d be surprised if Tex is not batting 5th this season, with Robbie 3rd and A-Rod 4th, as it should be, IMO.
Blake, I enjoy discussions, I really do………..and I’m willing to debate most any subject. I respect your opinions a great deal.
Carl, that’s true. Frankly, this is all very premature. I don’t think he’s a great player, but even if I did, he’s years away from being a HOF candidate,. I don’t believe in the “on pace to do such and such” theory because too many things can happen…………
BIG AL
I think Tex was just beat up this year.
Broken Toe.
Bad wrist.
I’m sure their were some others.
Nothing wrong with batting behind Cano. I mean he was the third best player in the AL this year.
Does that mean Tex isn’t great though? I don’t think so.
# Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Carl, that’s true. Frankly, this is all very premature. I don’t think he’s a great player, but even if I did, he’s years away from being a HOF candidate,. I don’t believe in the “on pace to do such and such” theory because too many things can happen…………
Oh yeah, he could have a catastrophic injury and never be the same.
Betsy-
Blake is a perfect gentleman.
His only fault is that he likes hearing people scream.
Mauer, Fisk, Wieters…none have ever said that their size was an issue as a catcher. Piazza and Lance Parrish weren’t exactly diminutive, both 6’4″ and well over 210 pounds. Parrish was a body guard for Tina Turner in the off season.
“Had you asked me this question 2 years ago, my answer might have been yes. However, today, I keep getting this sick feeling he may have peaked, and his better seasons are behind him. I pray that I’m wrong, but, it appears each season he slumps more, and for longer periods, he does not contribute in the post sean either. Great players have the ability to carry teams, and contribute in big situations, as A-Rod did in the 2009 WS. One only has to look at history to know the cream rises to the top when his team needs him. I’d be surprised if Tex is not batting 5th this season, with Robbie 3rd and A-Rod 4th, as it should be, IMO.”
Excellent post. He’s too streaky to be considered a great player. He looks great when everyone else around him is hitting… not so much when the team needs him.
He was a career .259 hitter in April prior to joining the Yankees, which was by far his worst month and considered “struggling”… this year, he hit .259 for the year and under .200 in April both years.
GB-
I would like to be a body guard for her too.
GB7, all I know is that the Yankees’ infield defense improved immensely the day Tex arrived. It’s a select few who have the ability to make others around them better – he’s one.
On offense, he’s a middle-of-the-order hitters in ANY lineup.
I rest my case.
Betsy,
I enjoy your posts as well. I don’t always agree but if we all agreed then there would be nothing to talk about and things would get boring rather quickly….
GB7 -
I’ll give you Tex’s glove is WO equal today, IMO, but, his offense is lacking consistency, and appears to be on the down side of where he was earlier in his career. If Tex learned to drive threw the ball, rather than dropping his shoulder in order to get lift and HR’s, he’d be a better hitter, and the HR’s would still come. That’s why I love Cano’s swing, it’s a thing of beauty.
Tex is a complimentary player. Cano has eclipsed him as a better player.
All this discounting of Cervelli is a whole bunch of premature. A young catcher known for his defense and strong arm doesn’t suddenly lose all skills. Sounds very much like an arm injury. A 360 OBP is nothing to sneeze at and everyone forgets that he missed both AA and AAA development time due to injury and Yankees need. As in give the kid time to develop, all this impatient caterwauling is an atypical Yankee fan reaction. Anyone remember the countless reams of posts last winter flaming Gardner? It was embarassing.
Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
“……Alex is the guy who carries this team”…..
***************
Betsy that just isn’t true.
- A-Rod hit .244 with a .308 OBP in June.
- A-Rod hit .248 with a .305 OBP in July.
- A-Rod hit .226 with a .268 OBP in August
That is hardly carrying the team.
Al-
Cano’s swing is silk on silk.
In fact, everything Cano does is smooth.
Blake, that’s right……..but sometimes I get the impression that this board is to be a place where everyone has to think the same way everyone else does.
MTU -
I’d be afraid to get that close to be a body guard, what, with all that gyration, it could kill a man of my age.
Tex also elavated the infield defense.
A-Rod, Jeter, and Cano had amazing defensive years.
I think a lot of that had to do with Tex.
Rob Cano, Rod Carew.
Sound alike, swing alike.
WC, wow, one year…………and Alex, even in a “down” year, had a ton of clutch hits. If you’re trying to compare Tex to Alex, you’re not going to win that one.
Cano is as smooth and effortless as there is. His power is what has astounded me – I can’t even imagine what his upside might be.
Al-
But what a way to go.
Betsy November 20th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
WC, wow, one year…………and Alex, even in a “down” year, had a ton of clutch hits. If you’re trying to compare Tex to Alex, you’re not going to win that one.
*********
I was not comparing the, You said “Alex carries this team”. That was not true last year.
sic….them
Shoulda traded Cano when we had the chance now we’re stuck with him.
Carl -
I’d like nothing better than seeing Tex have a great career in Pinstripes.
My hope is the team as a whole has a banner year, and #28 is flying above YS next year.
I certainly don’t see Teixeira as having an offensive downswing. His average was down about 35-40 points over last year’s….just about like everybody on the team’s were except for swisher and Cano. with Teixeira, his upper cut from the left side was more pronounced this past year than ever before. That can be leveled out. A bad back leg could easily have accounted for that. Bad starts/ who knows why. he always has a good ST, but, as has been the case with Cano, he has started slow in half of his seasons. Continued health going forward is the only thing that concerns me about these guys…not their offense or defense.
Joe Capozzi of The Palm Beach Post reports that Vazquez is “said to be seeking” a three-year deal worth $33MM.
WOWWWWWWW!
mick,
Carew was much more of a slap hitter.
Cano has much more power. And much better defensively.
Both do/did hit to all fields.
MTU -
Like they say, Some of the best trades are the ones you never make.
Like that Country song, “Some of God’s greatest gifts are un-answered prayers.”
Montero for Lee!
Betsy,
This blog is always at its best when there are differing opinions that are DEBATED….not argued.
Arod is one of the best players ever….steroids or not. I happen to believe they may hurt his career more than helped it and will always be sad he went down that road. I think he would have hit 700 + homers if he never touched the stuff…..but we’ll never know now.
Cano has always had power. It just took somebody to teach him where it was. Like Don Mattingly, he had 4 homers in his first season in NY and a career minor league high of 9. It was Lou Pinella in 1984 that showed him how to be selective in what pitches he could pull into the seats.
Al-
When we sign Lee, and Jesus is launching baseballs into orbit around Pluto from his YS launching pad no truer words will have ever been spoken.
Javy will get his money from a NL team, that’s where he belongs, and has had success. The SP field is very thin.
MTU -
So true!
Blake, I’ve been on the other end of the arguing thing and it’s not pretty. That’s why I’ve put a moratorium on discussing certain subjects………….
GB-
That net drill Long uses is awesome, and Cano is his star pupil.
People come from all over just to watch him do his thang.
If Rodriguez hits 800 homers, the record will be more than clean. Even from 2003 back, the most it would have added is 1-% and likely closer to 5%.
make that 10% tops, most likely 5%.
GB7 -
I’m still waiting for that call to show up at ST to work with Tex, but it still ain’t ringing. I can’t figure it out, all I wanted was travel money.
Blake, yes he is…………and it is sad. I just finished watching “Triumph and Tragedy: the story of the 1919 Chicago White Sox”…….now that was a tragedy. What might have been with Joe Jackson (though I don’t think he did anything)……..
Back to Alex – I’m still a fan and I’m sorry he did go down this road. However, I’m really happy for him that he had such a legendary post-season and put those questions to bed. I hope he’s healthy this year- I don’t think he’s done by any means.
MTU -
Long taught Girardi that drill in 1 day, and he was able to do it. Why are others on the team not doing it? Do they thing they are pros now, and don’t need to be taught how to hit? Glad Robbie listened, and I’m sure he is too.
GB7,
I totally agree with that….hope the writers see it that way. The three years in Texas were his prime years in a hitters park….and they still aren’t that out of line with the rest of his career.
# BIG AL November 20th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Carl -
I’d like nothing better than seeing Tex have a great career in Pinstripes.
My hope is the team as a whole has a banner year, and #28 is flying above YS next year.
No doubt. That’s bigger than anything right now.
Later folks, got to go.
Waiting on confirmation that Heyman was right about the 3 year $45 million offer. Should be coming soon.
Al-
Cano is blessed with great natural talent on both sides of the ball.
He really blossomed when A-Rod took him under his wing, and the Genius tutored him that off season.
The part that really impresses the sh*t out of me is that in spite of all
his physical gifts Cano is a very,very hard worker. He is hungry.
He is on the glide path to greatness.
If Alex can stay healthy for a full season then I really think he could win another MVP. I think he’s got another 40 homer season or two in him
TEX has been better than advertised defensively, he gets to everything and has put the glue on the Yankees IF. Simply outstanding.
On the offensive side, TEX has been cold and hot and cold the last (2) years. How long does Joe G stick with him in the 3rd hole is a question almost as important as how long Joe G sticks with Jeter at the top of the line-up if both of these guys struggle when the bell sounds…
Blake, I wouldn’t be surprised at all…………..
Alex’s talk with Cano in ST turned Cano around; Alex should get a ton of credit for that. Now I can see why others have said he’d be a good manager.
Cano has a chance to be the greatest 2b ever as well. Lot of work to do to get there but he has that type of ability. He may have the best swing in baseball right now…nowhere to pitch him.
Alex is a baseball savant.
I’d just as soon Teixeira finish strong over blowing the minor leaguers away in ST. Nettles, and Maris were notoriously slow starters. Jackson seldom started hot. They all started heating up around May….with the weather.
Wouldn’t it be grand if Jeter just surprised everyone and took this supposed 3/45 offer….from a PR standpoint he would come out the good guy and it would beneifit both sides.
MTU,
He really is and its because he loves the game. You can’t have that atention to detail unless you love it…
Blake-
Not happening.
Blake-
Doesn’t hurt to have a memory like an elephant either.
MTU,
Probably not…
Blake-
nice fantasy though.
blake November 20th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
GB7,
I totally agree with that….hope the writers see it that way. The three years in Texas were his prime years in a hitters park….and they still aren’t that out of line with the rest of his career.
———————————————————————————————————————-
He spent the first half of his career in notoriously right handed hitters parks, first in the Seattle Superdome and then Texas. I’m not buying that steroids got him through the Texas heat. Either that or somebody had better check on Jim sunberg who was catching 145-159 games a year forever or Mike Hargrove.
We’re here talking about Cano, Tex, ARod …
I said it before, I’ll say it again – the Yankees have the best infield in baseball.
Sunberg 145-150 games a year
I’m not goin over to the next thread.
I do not like the topic.
blake November 20th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Wouldn’t it be grand if Jeter just surprised everyone and took this supposed 3/45 offer….from a PR standpoint he would come out the good guy and it would beneifit both sides.
***************
Would be nice, but not a chance. Close honed his skills at IMG and CAA, they make Boras look like a neophyte.
Blake-
3 years with a 4th year option is where my money is.
Heyman is pulling those numbers from the same place he pulls everything else that isn’t Boras connected. Nobody has told him anything. Just like you, he’s guessing and hoping so he can be right for once in his life.
Aldo-
Say it again, I like the ring to it.
Throw in Montero and ……………
I don’t have words for that level of greatness.
MTU,
Think about it though. If Jeter and his agent see the writing on the wall and that they aren’t getting 5 or 6 years then maybe they consider the positive reaction it would get for him to just accept their first offer. Im just putting myself in his shoes…I already have all the money I could ever spend…..,probably not happening but hey….you never know.
GB-
All I can say about Heyman is Hey Man, c’mon.
Cano’s got a long ways to go to top Eddie Collins and especially Rogers Hornsby.
Blake-
I’m not concerned. It will work out eventually.
GreenBeret7 November 20th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Heyman is pulling those numbers from the same place he pulls everything else that isn’t Boras connected. Nobody has told him anything. Just like you, he’s guessing and hoping so he can be right for once in his life.
*********
Heyman is a terrific journalist and is as knowledgeable about baseball as anyone you will find. I have watched countless interviews with him and have no reason to doubt the veracity of what he reports. You don’t get to work at Sports Illustrated if there is any credible doubt about what you do. No one is perfect every time.
I’ll settle for Cano being better than joe Morgan and Jeff Kent.
I have every right, so tell “Uncle jon” to blow it out of his…..ear.
GB,
I guess I should say modern era 2b….
Serena Roberts works at SI. What does that say about quality and veracity?
Looks like he was right about Jeter.
Jeff Kent didn’t get enough credit for the run-producer he was, just a tremendous guy with runners on. IMO, Cano has a little ways to go to eclipse him as an RBI guy,, but he long ago surpassed him defensively…
As for Joe Morgan, a little before my time, but the numbers say he was one of the best.
It’s Selena Roberts for your information and she sure did a great job of investigative reporting on A-Rod and steroids.
She was given illegal information. How well did that pig do at Duke?
You’re wrong and obviously don’t know what you are talking about. Dave Epstein and Roberts were working on an A-Rod piece when steroid rumors were heard. Like good reporters they did their due diligence and verified and re-verified the information. They were right.
It’s not Robert’s fault the union didn’t destroy the test results. Bottom line, he was a steroid user.
Huge red flag if upton is being traded
Chad, I agree with you Bill Hall and Miguel Olivio. Justin Upton, however, is worth getting. The Yankees current outfield is good but the available outfielders over the next few years is not very attractive. If the Yankees could sell high on either Gardner or Swisher that would allow the Yankees to upgrade the outfield not just now but for the future as well.
Obviously the cost is the issue but they are going to have to do something in a year or two anyway and have no real internal candidates and mediocre FAs over the next couple of years so why not grab Upton now.