Report: Rivera seeking two years, close to $18 million
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 22, 2010 
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Look at that, Mariano Rivera’s name got mentioned today!
Jeff Passon from Yahoo! Sports is reporting that Rivera is looking for a two-year deal worth roughly $18 million per year.* The Yankees, Passan says, want to offer one year.
Could be negotiation posturing by both sides. Could be a legitimate gap. Seems too early to know how exactly these negotiations will go.
* Sorry. Left that part out earlier. It’s kind of important!
Love Mariano Rivera but 18 million for 60 innings is a lot of coin…….
This man is the G.O.A.T and the Yankees have more money than they can count.
You give him what he wants. Immediately.
This is why u don’t just pay jeter whatever he wants…..there are guys with legitimate requests who are also asking to be overpaid.
Wait…$18 million for the whole contract? That would be $9 million a year, 6 less than he made last year.
DO IT!
$18 million for a CLOSER?
Why do all of our players try and take us to the cleaners in negotiations, yet the Sox players give them DISCOUNTS? The contract Youkallis signed coming off .960 OPS season was a joke.
The funny part is that we are making these guys the highest paid at their respective positions (and in Jeter’s case, significantly higher), yet that doesn’t seem to be good enough, they want like 25% more than the next highest guy or something.
18 million per year, not total is what the report says
Ah, should have clicked on the link first. The way Chad wrote it, I took it as $18 million total, not per year. Passan says per year. Sorry Mo. Asking for a $3 million dollar raise at your age and in this economy? Not kosher.
So funny — even Mo is getting the treatment from so-called fans. What a lack of appreciation. Weak.
Rivera has the Yankees by the you know what…
Unlike Jeter, Yanks NEED Rivera. He can always threaten retirement if he doesn’t get what he wants.
Jeter has minimal leverage. MO has all the leverage.
I’m not going with the entire red sox parallel, but it is extremely obnoxious that our guys seem to take management to the cleaners every single time a contract comes up for renegotiation. Not only do they not give hometown discounts, they ram it to management with 30-40% above market requests. Its to the point where it makes me resentful and sometimes I wish the yankees would just say “nah cuz, thanks for playin, enjoy your time in cincinnati with half the cash, take it easy”
If that’s what Mo demands then you probably have to give it to him….problem is that the players know what the Yankees revenues are and they know what they have given other free agents and will probably offer Cliff Lee, In their minds, why shouldn’t they get theirs?
I would go to arbitration with both Jeter and Mo and live with the resulting one year contracts.
Note: I realize that the Yankees won’t, but whatever.
“I would go to arbitration with both Jeter and Mo and live with the resulting one year contracts.”
Offering doesn’t mean they would accept.
“problem is that the players know what the Yankees revenues are and they know what they have given other free agents and will probably offer Cliff Lee, In their minds, why shouldn’t they get theirs?”
Bingo.
And Pat M brings up a good point with the Burnett contract.
MDD2 – before u call out the so called fans; what does it say about “the so called true yankees” who won’t play for less than 30% more than the next highest paid guy at their position?
MDD2 – before u call out the so called fans; what does it say about “the so called true yankees” who won’t play for less than 30% more than the next highest paid guy at their position?
The revolt by Yankee Icons…….Now Hal & Cashman have headaches on both front and rear lopes of their respective brains
Gee, I wish I could get a 20% raise for next year.
stated a month ago that none of these three guys( Jeter,Mo,Andy) will take a pay per year pay cut and they shouldn’t
“Rivera has the Yankees by the you know what…”
That, he does. If Jeter walks, they can always supplement the offense around him. They don’t need to replace him directly.
If MO goes, they have nowhere else to go (note: I assume Soriano will be off the board long before the Yanks even have the option to pursue him in the event MO retires or something).
He wants $18 mil, they have to give it to him.
About that $18MM per for Mariano … anybody aware that if K-Rot finishes 54 games next season, his 2012 option at $17.5MM kicks in, guaranteed?
Maybe we’d rather have him? (eyes rolling)
I’d ask for $20 million per year if I was Mo.
Things happen in threes….Pettitte next?
Pat, this may be the first time that NYYs overpaying out of system FAs will cause the team issues with one/two of their own.
Next up:
Pettitte will ask for the $28 million contract that Clemens got and the family plan, his agent citing that he is better than Clemens and has done more for the franchise.
Upon hearing that, Lee will ask for $32 million, his agent citing that he is better than Pettitte and younger and deserves that much.
ob B November 22nd, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Gee, I wish I could get a 20% raise for next year.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Maybe you would if you could your job as well as Rivera.
(from previous thread)
Blake he is still the best closer in baseball. Who else would you want in the game when it’s on the line? 1.80 ERA with a 0.83 WHIP.
Hal and Levine are now polluting the environment with bad will, playing hardball with first ballot Hall of Famers who are Yankee legends. He owns a team worth almost 2 billion dollars; penny wise and pound foolish is a start – idiotic is more like it.
So what if Jeter and Mariano spend a couple of years being somewhat ineffective. Posada and A-Rod both are/will be in that position and they are willing to do it with Lee if they give him 6 years which you know they will.
Sorry, that’s my opinion if this is true.
I’m officially getting concerned about what this team is going to look like next season.
These “sources” are really starting to irk me. I believe they are simply opportunistic journalists looking to create baseball news during a slow news period.
Andy made almost $12 mil in 10….he comes back he will want more per year
“Offering doesn’t mean they would accept.”
That’s true, but the contracts they are offered could motivate them to do so.
Both could get raises, but the Yankees would have protection.
Oh Carlo, grow up. Yankee players get paid a premium, and rightly so, for playing in the Bronx. It’s harder in just about every way imaginable to thrive there and it takes a special person who should be rewarded. The organization is making a fortune and it’s not your money. So yes, I think you’re a so-called fan.
Boston is really closing the gap on the Yanks after signing another stud outfielder, Drew Sutton.
“…they know what they have given other free agents and will probably offer Cliff Lee, In their minds, why shouldn’t they get theirs?”
They have gotten theirs. But huge, multi-year contracts almost always go to younger players.
At least Mo is near the top of his game, albeit more fragile, which needs to be taken into account.
Jeter has no such claim to make.
Can someone fill me in on how the Yankees are playing hardball with Month when they haven’t even begin negotiating with him and Month hasn’t even told them what he wants???
# GreenBeret7 November 22nd, 2010 at 10:07 pm
Boston is really closing the gap on the Yanks after signing another stud outfielder, Drew Sutton.
——————————————————————————
is there really that much of a gap to close ? That team bitten by the injury bug and still played decent ball
Month should be *Mo*
Stupid phone.
I want 1,000$ per game to cheer.
Take it or leave it Yankees!!
Seriously, is what a player wants and what a player gets ever the same?
But I would think that if this demand is true it’s a message that this contract will have to be a 2 year deal. Which is fine as far as I’m concerned.
One thing for certain, the worth of The NY Yankees tripled at least since those two hit the scene…..Maybe they view this new contract as profit sharing of sorts…..
TheStraw November 22nd, 2010 at 10:03 pm
These “sources” are really starting to irk me. I believe they are simply opportunistic journalists looking to create baseball news during a slow news period.
************
I don’t believe that is correct. I think these sources are legitimately reporting intentionally leaked information whose source is Yankee management.
Two years at $16 mil per?
Maybe the steakhouse is running into trouble getting good meat from the mob.
If the Steinbrenners really want to keep the payroll where it was in 2010, and resign their own players plus Lee, they can always dump Swisher’s salary, and put Laird out there. Probably could find a taker for Granderson also, move Gardner to center and find a cheap replacement for left. Maybe A-Rod and AJ would also be kind enough to restructure their contracts.
There are ways to increase the net earnings.
Of course I’m being facetious. It’s just a matter of “show me the money!”
Pat M
You almost make it sound like they have been underpaid.
MDD2 – I’ll make this really simple…..I’m a season ticket holder, my tix went up 20% this year…..not a problem for me, doesn’t bother me…..but it is my money that goes towards extortionists who pull at the heart strings of fans like urself to pressure management into paying more than they are worth time and time again.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the Yankees *prefer* to go year to year.
All it is is their preference. Doesn’t mean they are taking some hardline stance on it.
WCYF-
How can you be sure it is the management and not agents looking to do their negotiating in the press?
What exactly is Hal Steinbrenner doing?
He hasn’t done anything. He gave one interview at the Winter Meetings and that was it. He didn’t say anything damning about either Jeter nor Rivera.
Say what you want about Levine (and he certainly deserves all of it), but Hal Steinbrenner hasn’t done anything wrong.
if any of this is true, this is getting really out of hand.
now i do believe Mo should get a 2 year contract if he wants one, but 15 M per is more than enough.
I am worried it may get to a point where the Yankees just say “f” it and let Mo and Jeter walk.
Mo will probably get his $$$. Jeter will NOT.
At some point, enough is enough.
How do you justify offering Cliff Lee who is 33 a 6 year deal, which you know they will have to do to sign him, and not give Mariano a 2 year deal?
The Yankees know that they will most likely get 4 or maybe 5 years out of Lee if they are lucky, they are willing to eat a year or two if they have to. That’s what makes the Yankees the Yankees, not the amount they can pay a player annually, but the extra years they can absorb. That’s what Texas can’t do.
Pay them!
“How do you justify offering Cliff Lee who is 33 a 6 year deal, which you know they will have to do to sign him, and not give Mariano a 2 year deal?”
By using MLB history as a guide.
Its so funny to me that some of u believe every player should get huge contracts and see nothing flawed in said player requiring way more than they would ever get elsewhere to dawn the jersey of ur favorite team. Jeters biggest negotiating ploy this year is all of you, I hope you all realize this.
LGY November 22nd, 2010 at 10:09 pm
Can someone fill me in on how the Yankees are playing hardball with Month when they haven’t even begin negotiating with him and Month hasn’t even told them what he wants???
—————————————-
Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports knows Mariano’s uncle’s son’s mother-in-law’s hairdresser’s daughter’s baby daddy, who spoke off the record.
Mo SHOUULD get a 2 year deal. 18M/year is steep, but maybe he gets that somewhere.
I welcome Jeter to try to get 20M/year somewhere.
I’m hoping these are just ridiculous rumors.
TheStraw November 22nd, 2010 at 10:15 pm
WCYF-How can you be sure it is the management and not agents looking to do their negotiating in the press?
**************
I am pretty sure. I know Casey Close and his IMG and CAA training and mentality very well. I’m sure Fernando Cuza is no different and remember he already let it be known he wanted 2 years.
I’m sorry, typo … that should be “… STEP-uncle’s …”
Rich in NJ November 22nd, 2010 at 10:18 pm
“How do you justify offering Cliff Lee who is 33 a 6 year deal, which you know they will have to do to sign him, and not give Mariano a 2 year deal?”
By using MLB history as a guide.
**************
Fair enough and history tells me that Cliff Lee has never won a World Series for anyone and Mariano has won 5. And history also tells me Mariano was the best closer in baseball last year.
“These “sources” are really starting to irk me. I believe they are simply opportunistic journalists looking to create baseball news during a slow news period.”
Jeter’s agent made on-the-record quotes yesterday, calling the Yankees negotiation tactics “baffling”.
I just called Casey Close at his home and he has no idea who you are.
LGY
So does this mean Mo is now NOT being reasonable?
“All it is is their preference. Doesn’t mean they are taking some hardline stance on it.”
I don’t think the length is the problem, it is the alleged $18 mil per. Of course they will give him 2 years if he wants it.
Jeter can get $20 Million a year easy … by working exclusively as spokesperson for some high end product.
THAT IS, if he stays in NY, which of course, he will.
As blake said 18 million for 60 innings is a lot of coin. Let’s see-CC gets 23 million for 237.2 innings. Let’s round that off to 240, so Rivera get’s 4X more per inning than CC. If I’m CC I’m opting out next year if I put up good numbers and shoot for the moon!!
“Fair enough and history tells me that Cliff Lee has never won a World Series for anyone and Mariano has won 5″
Mo won 5 by himself? That’s just silly. He helped win WS because he was fortunate enough to play with some great talent.
“And history also tells me Mariano was the best closer in baseball last year.”
Mo has earned another $15m, maybe $16m. That’s more than fair.
If not, then fine. Move on.
4time-
I was referring more to the Mo and Cliff Lee leaks. Although I do also think a certain degree of hyperbole has been injected into these Jeter stories. Again, what else in baseball is making news right now. These guys are losing airtime and column space to football stories and are looking to make news.
“Why do all of our players try and take us to the cleaners in negotiations, yet the Sox players give them DISCOUNTS? The contract Youkallis signed coming off .960 OPS season was a joke.”
Because the Sox have proven they will let players go and not overpay for them – Pedro, Bay, Lowe, Nomar, Damon, etc.
Who have the Yanks played hardball with? Johnny Damon? And they didn’t even play hardball with him, they gave him an overmarket deal that he foolishly rejected and when he wanted to come back, we had already moved on to other things.
Counter Mo 1 year 17.5 m or 2 years at 15 mil per. Take your pick.
Jeter 3 years 45 mil firm. Take it or leave it.
What exactly do the Yankees have to gain by leaking what Mariano wants??
Especially since every indication so far has been that Mariano hasn’t even told them yet.
This is nothing like the Jeter negotiation where the Yankees have been trying to frame their offer in a certain way.
Rick come on, you know I wasn’t suggesting that Mo won those 5 rings by himself. But, do you think the Yankees would have won all of them without Mo? Before you answer, if you’re not sure, go back and review the game logs.
As far as the annual salary. He made $15 last year. Why no raise? A 1.80 ERA with 33 saves doesn’t warrant a raise?
The Lee negotiation might be the easiest, most-straight forward of the bunch. They will give him what he wants, CC money, 6 years, anything. On the first day of FA they were at his door.
Now this is ridiculous…………Mo obviously thinks he can go another 2 years and he knows himself better than anyone. Now the Yankees are playing hardball with Mo over 1 year? Now I’m ticked off.
Tar,
He is asking the yankees for another big payday when they already have given him so much, he should have gone year to year due to his age , so he doesn’t hinder the team’s chances in the future. pretty much what Pettite’s been doing the last three years. Pay him 18 mil for one year i’m ok with that but for two??
Pay him.
I would not give Jeter what he’s looking for right now, but I’d give Mo a 2 year deal like that.
He’s still one of the best pitchers in baseball. I know in my heart he will walk away when he can’t get anyone out. Mo will not go out getting slapped around the ballpark and being a middle reliever. He’s going to go out on top.
I believe Jeter, on the other hand, will stay for as long as the contract allows him to and won’t walk away and will need Cashman to tell him he’s done.
Mo won’t need that. If he’s not Mo, he won’t hang around anymore.
Pay him while he’s still the best closer in baseball. He’s earned it.
We have absolutely no evidence that the Yanks are playing hardball with Mo. None. Zero.
Mo will get it
I like Hal and I love Cash, but give me a break – Mo can’t go for 2 years?
“If I?m CC I?m opting out next year if I put up good numbers and shoot for the moon”
I’m guessing that may have crossed someones mind the past couple of weeks.
Is it the Twilight Zone in here tonight???
How can you play hardball with someone you are not negotiating with yet?
Anyone?
I refuse to kill Jeter by assuming anything about him – for instance, that he won’t walk away. I don’t think that’s fair – he doesn’t have pride? Anyway, this is not about Jeter, this is about Mo. If Mo thinks he has enough left for 2 years, then he has enough left. You give him the $$ and years and you don’t think about it.
TheStraw November 22nd, 2010 at 10:32 pm
We have absolutely no evidence that the Yanks are playing hardball with Mo. None. Zero.
************
You’re right. I said above “if true”. And the Yankees may acquiesce and give Mo his 2 maybe at $16.5 which Mo might take.
LGY-
Apparently some people believe everything they read.
“Ric[H] come on, you know I wasn’t suggesting that Mo won those 5 rings by himself. But, do you think the Yankees would have won all of them without Mo? Before you answer, if you’re not sure, go back and review the game logs.”
I’m not psychic, so let’s grant your point. What does that mean? That they needed each other. Certainly, Mo doesn’t win 5 with any other team.
Mo has been well-compensated for that. He will turn 42 next season. No one says that he should take a cut, unlike Jeter.
But if this report is true, and it probably isn’t, the request is unreasonable.
As I’ve seen elsewhere, it does make you wonder what Andy would ask for. This budget is going to be stretched to its limit with Lee (if he comes)…………so the only moves that would be made after Lee would have to be minor ones.
The Yankees NEVER said they won’t go two years with Mariano. Ghet NEVER said he can’t go two years.
They prefer one year. That isn’t breaking news.
Anyone could have told you that.
Mariano NEVER said he is demanding 2 years. He NEVER said he is demanding 18 per.
That just may or may not be his opening offer.
Jeez people are reading way too much into this and overreacting.
“Blake he is still the best closer in baseball. Who else would you want in the game when it’s on the line? 1.80 ERA with a 0.83 WHIP.”
nobody. I didn’t say that I wouldn’t ultimately give it to him if these rumors are true and I had to….just saying its a lot of money for a closer that despite who he is is getting ready to turn 41.
Saying the Yankees want to offer one year is not even close to saying the Yankees are taking a hard line with Mariano.
I am concerned about all these negotiations (Jeter, Pettitte, Mo), but why is it that conclusions are leapt to? Maybe it’s me – maybe I’m not reading the same thing as some others are.
Even with Jeter – these are negotiations. One side gives terms, the other side gives terms, they talk, they (hopefully) come to an agreement somewhere in the middle. Unless I don’t get what a negotiation is, and I think I do.
I don’t know how reliable Passan is, but I sincerely hope this report is not true from the Yankees’ end
I’m getting the feeling the league may be exerting some pressure on owners with the new CBA coming up and the Players Association doing the same thing on their side.
Derek, Mo and Lee are all negotiating “raise all boats” kind of contracts
Rich – fair enough ok, but why do you think it unreasonable. Jeter had a poor year – Mo didn’t. He’s in great shape, only pitches an inning usually. He’s a command guy, do you really think that 2 years is that big a risk?
I’ll reserve judgment on what the team will look like until I actually see real figures in real contracts.
So MO wants a 20% increase from last year’s salary?
How are they going to justify giving MO a pay raise and making Jeter take a paycut?
MO should get 2 years, but the pay raise is unnecessary, especially when the new owner has a “budget”. That $3 mil can go towards a good backup INF or C.
They prefer one year, LGY? Why? They’re going to try and make all these players into Andy Pettitte? Andy is an unusual guy…………All these leaks are doing is making the Yankees look bad.
pat November 22nd, 2010 at 10:39 pm
I’m getting the feeling the league may be exerting some pressure on owners with the new CBA coming up and the Players Association doing the same thing on their side.
Derek, Mo and Lee are all negotiating “raise all boats” kind of contracts.
*********************
You make a great point.
“They prefer one year. That isn’t breaking news.
Anyone could have told you that. ”
very true….
Betsy,
That’s what i was talking about in my previous post about hindering the team’s chances in the future. They are thinking about themselves and not the good health and future of the team, they are going to be so financially strained in the not so distant future that it’s going to be very hard to compete
I would honestly let Rivera play until he retires. Maybe not pay him closer money (or $18 mil per year), and maybe not in the closer role forever, but I can’t imagine him ever being bad. That dude has earned a roster spot until the end of time.
“Rich – fair enough ok, but why do you think it unreasonable. Jeter had a poor year – Mo didn’t. He’s in great shape, only pitches an inning usually. He’s a command guy, do you really think that 2 years is that big a risk?”
Given his declining FB velo, his inability to pitch multiple innings on a regular basis anymore, and according to Lost, more nagging injuries, two years is a risk.
If he wants two years, then two @ $15m per is more than fair.
“Derek, Mo and Lee are all negotiating “raise all boats” kind of contracts”
My thoughts as well… along with the obvious pride factor, the union pressures probably factor into it as well.
Morningperson-
Exactly. Why should we fault the Yankees for doing what any of us do every time we buy a car.
“Derek, Mo and Lee are all negotiating “raise all boats” kind of contracts”
One of these is not like the others.
Luis, I’m not sure what you’re referring to – I’m not blaming Mo for wanting 2 years. I think the Yankees are in the wrong here.
Betsy,
They prefer one year because the man is turning 41 in a week.
I really hope this report is true. If the Yankees didn’t prefer one year on a player who is 41 years old, then they are absolutely nuts.
Straw is right. There is NO evidence the Yanks have done anything with Mo.
It’s all a reason why people need to get a grip during the hot stove season. Agents use the media to get more money and teams try to save as much as they can.
It’s posturing on both sides. That’s the way it is when you’re at the negotiating table. Hell, people do it everyday at car dealerships.
MorningPerson November 22nd, 2010 at 10:39 pm
Saying the Yankees want to offer one year is not even close to saying the Yankees are taking a hard line with Mariano.
I am concerned about all these negotiations (Jeter, Pettitte, Mo), but why is it that conclusions are leapt to? Maybe it’s me – maybe I’m not reading the same thing as some others are.
Even with Jeter – these are negotiations. One side gives terms, the other side gives terms, they talk, they (hopefully) come to an agreement somewhere in the middle. Unless I don’t get what a negotiation is, and I think I do.
——————————————–
You’re right on all of the above, especially the part about conclusions being “leapt to.” Far-reaching ones.
Rich in NJ…….Do you have labor issues with your employees ???? Seems that you take a hard line which is fine of course……However you seem to dismiss the fact Jeter & Rivera are major cogs in the Yankee wheel……..I learned a long time ago that if you don’t ask you’ll never receive, the worst result is a no……If Derek had a similar 2010 as he did 2009 this storyline here would be much different…..Both guys will get closer to what they’re asking for than what the club is or will be an opening figure…….Jeter will get his 3 year deal at close to the same pay with a club buyout option and Rivera will get close to what the rumored number is….
I’d give mo a two year deal worth 30 mil. 36? That’s pushing it…
Jeter I’d go more, 3 years 45 mill. I’d go up to 54 if he pushed hard for it
TBH, asking for $18 mil is probably more of a sticking point for the Yankees than 2 years.
Hal’s “budget” is going to up in flames if all these players are going to try and break the bank and seek “legacy” contracts along with Lee seeking a CC one.
Mo is not 32, he is going on 42. It’s not unreasonable for the Yankees to bring up the idea of going year to year. And Mo has had some minor health issues the last couple of years, specifically the ribs during the 2009 WS.
Up until this report, I’d heard and read that Mo himself was considering year to year, but was not sure what he wanted to do.
luis
I have no problem what so ever in the Yankees overpaying lifelong, homegrown, 5 ring holding, living Yankee legends. None at all. The Yankees have made boat loads of money off of Hall of Famers Mo and Derek. A lot more than they have paid out.
What better ambassadors for the Yankees and baseball is there than Mo and Derek?
Raise the advertising rates on YES, cut Levine’s and Trost salary, Use cheaper toilet paper at the stadium, fire Kay, I don’t care what they do, just pay them 2 (and Andy)what they want.
It’s the leaks that have soured on the organization. Whomever is doing it, they have the full blessing of Hal…or they would have stopped by now.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....kees112210
Betsy,
The Yankees are in the wrong for what?
All Passan says is that the Yankees “want to offer” one year. They haven’t even offered the man a contract yet!
It is simply their “want.” Their “preference.” However you want to phrase it. The Yankees have literally done nothing to or with Mariano yet this offseason.
How many years would you want or prefer on Mariano? One or two?
How many closers “pitch multiple innings on a regular basis”?
Pat M
At this point in life, I have the luxury of working only for myself.
“However you seem to dismiss the fact Jeter & Rivera are major cogs in the Yankee wheel……..”
As I said, they have been very, very well-compensated for that.
“If Derek had a similar 2010 as he did 2009 this storyline here would be much different”
Right, but since he didn’t, it’s reasonable to believe that he is no position to make demands.
Pat m despite what I or the Yankees might offer, you will probably end up being right… These guys will get paid big money to stay in pinstripes
LGY, he’s still the best in the game – give the man 2 years. Ok, so he can’t pitch as often and he’s 41- you make accomodations for him. I’m perfectly fine with 2, LGY- if Mo feels he’s done, he will walk.
Betsy,
I meant that two years and 18 mil is way too much. They don’t seem to realize that they are getting old. i f they were thinking about the team jeter would understand taking a three year contract and mo should go year to year so if he breaksdown it doesn’t hurt the team on the long run, giving them financial flexibility to make the adjusments needed to stay competitive
“How many closers “pitch multiple innings on a regular basis”?”
Mo is the highest paid closer in MLB history because has been so unique.
Are you saying that he is everything that he once was?
Why would Jeter accept a 4th year buyout option? If he wants 4 years, he wants 4 years, not some kind of option (unless he controls it).
If that is what interests Jeter, he is better off getting more AAV in a 3 yr deal, rather then essentially saying he will be bought out in year 4 and paid to go away.
Unless the 4th yr is guaranteed or his option, he has no reason to accept it, other than to get $10 mil as a “parting gift” before he rides off into the sunset…
The leaks are disturbing………….I don’t get it; why all of a sudden is this all getting out?
I think if Hal and company really wanted to play hardball, they would sign Lee first and really put pressure on Jete and Mo to come back at more of a price reflecting truer market value.
This is all posturing.
GreenBeret7 November 22nd, 2010 at 10:49 pm
How many closers “pitch multiple innings on a regular basis”?
———————————–
Uhhh … Goose Gossage?
Luis, I understand what you are saying, but I can’t go there………these guys have every right to ask for what they feel they are worth. I would do the same in my office.
Jackson, how would signing Lee affect Mo and Jeter?
Betsy,
The Yankees have given NO indication they won’t give Mariano 2 years.
To borrow a phrase from Casey Close, I am honestly baffled at the reaction on here.
“It’s the leaks that have soured on the organization. Whomever is doing it, they have the full blessing of Hal…or they would have stopped by now. ”
That’s what some people don’t get… Levine or whomever isin’t doing this on his own. Ever since Cash took back control, the leaks have been shut off.
Anything that is said has Hal’s blessings. This isin’t the unstable Tampa fraction. This is a tightly run ship now.
Yanks obviously sending out purposeful leaks, not just Levine having some fun.
If Mo wants 2 years then they’ll give him two years but I think it’ll be closer to 15 per than 18.
Betsy-
I told you why. Bored sportswriters are trying to form a narrative of the Yankees thumbing their nose at their legends to sell papers and ads. They have taken one or two reasonable comments by Hal and Cash and run with them. Gotta further the story the the Yanks are the evil empire, ya know.
Tar,
Fair enough, but that might mean that we won’t compete in a couple of years. I could be wrong but havint more than 100 mil tide up in six or seven old or aging players is not a good recipe for succes
I’m saying the Yanks would be playing hardball if they signed Lee first.
Mo!!!!
I love you man but you’re crazy.
You’re crazy.
LGY, I guess you’re right………but these leaks are bothersome. I’d rather NOT know what’s going on….The off-season is sucking so far. Jeter and Mo’s negotiations are going to play out in the media with all that entails and who knows about Lee?
Eroc- we don’t know that anything has actually been said, other than the comments which have already been made public.
“The leaks are disturbing………….I don’t get it; why all of a sudden is this all getting out?”
As negotiation tactics. To get the public on their side or to send the Jeter camp indirect messages.
The “no negotiation in public” vow from both sides was short lived… likely because the Yanks got early word of Jeter’s demands and want to brace themselves (and the public) for a stare down. If they felt they could bridge the gap peacefully with them, none of this stuff would come out. And it’s not just the Yankees as pat pointed out… Jeter’s camp has been countering with their own leaks (Jeter’s trainer to O’Conner, his agent to Lupica, etc.)
“#Yankees sign LHRP Neal Cotts”
http://twitter.com/eddymk/status/6911741271212032
“Right, but since he didn’t, it’s reasonable to believe that he is no position to make demands.”
there’s this thing called free agency.
derek jeter is free to do what he wants.
just like yankee management is.
…but to use in your terminology , the yankees are in no position to make demands.
it is hal and cashman’s worse nightmare to have these two yankees legends free agents at the same time.
excellent management.
AldotheApache November 22nd, 2010 at 10:52 pm
GreenBeret7 November 22nd, 2010 at 10:49 pm
How many closers “pitch multiple innings on a regular basis”?
———————————–
Uhhh … Goose Gossage
———————————————————————————————————————-
Closers in the last 25 years are not used the same as closers 35 years ago.
Jackson, that’s what I don’t get – why? Lee has nothing to do with them.
Straw, Ok, I’m going to take a deep breath. I really have had no problems with the Yankees tack with Jeter…………so, calm down about Mo, lol
Betsy,
You are right. they have everyright to ask what they think they are worth, but….it might hurt the team anyway
TheStraw November 22nd, 2010 at 10:55 pm
Betsy-
I told you why. Bored sportswriters are trying to form a narrative of the Yankees thumbing their nose at their legends to sell papers and ads. They have taken one or two reasonable comments by Hal and Cash and run with them. Gotta further the story the the Yanks are the evil empire, ya know.
——————————————–
No way to tell how true it is. But interesting take.
Even if there have been leaks, what has been leaked that is so awful terrible?
3 years, $45 million as an opening bid for Jeter?
That they’re running a business?
That they are thinking along the lines of one year for Mo?
What is so awful terrible about these “leaks?”
In addition, a statement from Levine and a statement from Hal are not leaks, they are open remarks. And as much as I don’t like Levine and he makes me nervous, his statement from the other day – I didn’t find anything in it to be particularly upsetting and certainly nothing untrue or untoward. Same with Hal’s statement.
I have been on record here as saying I think that Jeter (and Mo, for that matter) mean more to the Yankees than simply “on-the field” performance, and I believe in the long run, that will be honored in their upcoming contracts. I don’t think the Yankees should draw lines in the sand with these 2 players. Ultimately, I don’t think they will.
GreenBeret7 November 22nd, 2010 at 10:58 pm
AldotheApache November 22nd, 2010 at 10:52 pm
GreenBeret7 November 22nd, 2010 at 10:49 pm
How many closers “pitch multiple innings on a regular basis”?
———————————–
Uhhh … Goose Gossage
———————————————————————————————————————-
Closers in the last 25 years are not used the same as closers 35 years ago.
+++++++++++++++++
Uhhh … relax GB, I was jk with you.
I just read the Passan article.
Not a pro Yankee stance there so I’m guessing whatever leak he found wasn’t one collecting a pinstriped paycheck.
Players don’t have to say they are insulted if everyone is insulted for them. Not enough sympathy for Derek, throw Mo into the mix.
It’s a business and it’s not always done pretty.
“#Yankees sign LHRP Neal Cotts”
The Yankees specialize in TJ rehab. It sounds like a risk worth taking.
“Eroc- we don’t know that anything has actually been said, other than the comments which have already been made public.”
Obviously there has been some merit to the media reports, re: Jeter, if it caused Casey Close (who wanted to keep the negotiations private) to come out and call the Yankees strategy “baffling” and comparing him to Babe Ruth.
Not to mention, Levine and Hal’s comments “It’s a business, it could get messy, it’s not a licensing or commercial deal, etc.” basically were in-line with the “anonymous” leaks.
ET, good points. That’s why I suspect that the first Jeter/Yankee meeting did not go as well as Hal said. I can’t blame the Yankees for being somewhat annoyed at Jeter asking (as reported) for 6 years…………
Rich in NJ November 22nd, 2010 at 10:50 pm
“How many closers “pitch multiple innings on a regular basis”?”
Mo is the highest paid closer in MLB history because has been so unique.
Are you saying that he is everything that he once was?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Does he still gets outs during the regular season? Does he get outs in the post season? Yes, just in a differnt and equally efficient way.
Luis, yes – but players aren’t going to think about the team; they are going to think about themselves, the same way teams aren’t going to think about the players, just themselves. It’s the way of the world………and not necessarily wrong.
In 2007 Mariano *wanted* a 4 year deal.
The Yankees offered 3/45 and Mo held out for about a week trying to get a 4th year tacked on.
When the Yankees did not budge he accepted the 3 year deal.
This is not a demand from Mariano. This is the beginning of a negotiation and Mo has every right to shoot high.
The Yankees are not going to give Mo whatever he wants, just like they didn’t in 2007.
They will negotiate just like last time.
MP, I’ve no problem with anything the Yankees have said about Jeter, but that said – I still don’t like leaks or public comments. All this is doing, from all ends, is making it look like the Yankees are in for a rough off-season.
“I could be wrong but havint more than 100 mil tide up in six or seven old or aging players is not a good recipe for succes”
Luis
So be it. I am no spring chicken anymore. I don’t expect to see players like Mo, Andy Derek and Jorge playing together again. I don’t want anything to get screwed up over a couple of million that is literally pocket change, for an organization like the Yankees.
They can use it as a budget excuse or a leverage play on making their team better by adding a front line rotation pitcher. I’m not saying it’s what they should do, but I don’t think there’s any real hardball going on here yet. These are just posturing moves of the negotiation process.
Randy I ( The Original Tin Cup )…….Suddenly Jeter and Rivera each have a gonad in hand and will be applying the squeeze to them…….I think they both recall how the Joe Torre episode unfolded……..Randi Levine is a big time labor negotiator and he’s the one person who can let things get out of control if Steinbrenner Jr and Cashman aren’t careful……..I detest that hump Levine…..
“Eroc- we don’t know that anything has actually been said, other than the comments which have already been made public.”
Well, the Jeter negotiation is very easy to read… just based on the Levine/Hal/Close public comments. It obviously isin’t going smoothly at the moment.
The MO one… well, you are right. I doubt you will see the same negotiating stance with him. Last thing they want to do is tick him off through the media and have him consider retirement.
MP, you can’t just cave and give these guys everything they want (well Mo, maybe because 2 years is not a big deal). People praised the Sox for drawing the line in the sand with their players, but the Yankees can’t do it with theirs?
Pat, if there are leaks coming out of the Yankee camp, Levine would be the logical suspect…..not Steinbrenner/Cashman.
His last contract Hank made some comments that told me they viewed part of it as a Thank You payment only hes still great so here some more Thank You money.
“People praised the Sox for drawing the line in the sand with their players, but the Yankees can’t do it with theirs?”
Betsy
The Sox don’t have Derek and MO. These two are special and unique cases that need to be treated as such. The team should be discussing lifetime sevce contracts with these two, not drawing lines in the sand..
Here’s a question…..
How many years and how many dollars are too many for Derek and Mo or does anything go?
Tar, I can not give Jeter whatever he wants just because he’s a Yankee icon……..
Don’t think Close is innocent here. I think there was some negative backlash from his “baffling” comment that made Jeter look slightly greedy. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is behind the Mo leak. Agents have been known to play underhanded in the interests of their client.
“Pat, if there are leaks coming out of the Yankee camp, Levine would be the logical suspect…..not Steinbrenner/Cashman.”
Doesn’t matter who is the one doing the leaking… it is likely an organizational thing, so Levine would be speaking on behalf of the organization, including Cash and Hal.
The days of guys like Levine acting on his own are over. Cash got Hank to disappear into thin air, if he wanted Levine to pipe down, it would have been done.
I don’t think the Yankees should “cave.” I do think the final deals will be more than the Yankees might have wanted. I think there are circumstances here that are out of the ordinary. I believe that the unusual history of the core 4 takes all of these contracts out of the realm of usual negotiations. I’m thinking that the Yankees want to be seen as taking a certain stance so that it’s clear that these contracts will not be setting a precedent for future contracts.
The Sox and the Yankees are different organizations. It’s apples to oranges. The Sox pretend they don’t have money and that they are small market. The Yankees can’t even try to do that.
People haven’t been paying attention at all the past few years if they actually think Levine is speaking out of turn or is leaking anything with an organization stamp on it.
Just burying their heads in the sand that indeed the Yankees are not willing to pay whatever it is Jeter or Mariano want and are looking for a “bad guy” to blame it on.
The Yankees FO speak in unison now.
That has been clear since Hank was banished.
Tar November 22nd, 2010 at 10:48 pm
I have no problem what so ever in the Yankees overpaying lifelong, homegrown, 5 ring holding, living Yankee legends. None at all. The Yankees have made boat loads of money off of Hall of Famers Mo and Derek. A lot more than they have paid out.
What better ambassadors for the Yankees and baseball is there than Mo and Derek?
Raise the advertising rates on YES, cut Levine’s and Trost salary, Use cheaper toilet paper at the stadium, fire Kay, I don’t care what they do, just pay them 2 (and Andy)what they want.
**************
Tar – Post of the thread. Right on sir.
Straw, I thought Close’s comments were ridiculous
*without an organization stamp on it*
Rivera, 2 yrs at $16.5 Mil the first year and $15 mil the 2nd year with incentives.
Jeter 4 years at $19 mil, $18 mil, $17 mil and $16 mil. with incentives for Gold Glove and Silver Bat
MP, I agree……..but I would give more $$ before I gave more years.
pat,
3/60 is my limit for Jeter at this point.
With Mo, I don’t really care on money as long as it is a max of 2 years. Considering 2/36 seems to be his opening offer, I have to assume Mo is going to come down from that.
After Mo signed his contract in 2007, it actually leaked out that he was willing to take 2 with an option year despite asking for 4 years.
I still don’t understand what information Levine has leaked?
****
pat -
For Jeter, ideal is no more than 4, but at the end of the day, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a 5th year. I don’t much care about the money. It’ll be ridiculous no matter what it is.
For Mo, 2 years. Again, I don’t care about the exact dollar figures. But I’m not sure why Mo wants 2, to tell you the truth.
Jeter 4 years, 56 million.
Mo 2 years, 25 million.
Tar, I’m still not giving handing them the key to the city……….3/45 is very generous; I have no problem with the offer.
pat m-
you and i both know as much as players act like they like management because they have to, baseball players do not love management.
jeter and rivera remember how cashman dealt with bernie williams and how it went last time with posada and rivera. i said at the time the way cashman treated bernie that it was going to cost him down the road. baseball players have long memories.
jeter and rivera can put on red sox hats any time they want.
and if cashman was smart , he would have taken care of at least one of these contracts a while ago so they couldn’t exert pressure together.
i’m actually getting amused at the predicament cashman and hal have gotten themselves into.
this is going to be fun to watch.
Straw – Excellent point, I was thinking that as well. Not so much that Close might be the one leaking the MO stuff, but that Jeter and MO might be working in unison, both trying to help eachother get the contracts they feel they deserve.
Jeter, MO, and Andy are best friends. I don’t think one will take kindly to the other one getting (what is perceived as) lowballed. Perhaps MO slides some of his leverage over to his buddy Jeter, considering MO has significantly more.
That is a good theory, about Close maybe getting involved indirectly in the MO negotiation to help shift some of the bad image back to the Yankees.
As WCYF said, CAA is VERY good at this kind of stuff.
Jeter is not getting 5 years……….ouch.
Someone in the media who enjoys a good kumbaya sing along………
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news.....51594.html
Betsy-
I agree. It’s almost like Close was saying that the Yankees should engage in no negotiations whatsoever with Jeter. Well, if he really believes that he should advise his client to make a more reasonable demand. But that would cut into his commission. I would love to actually hear something from Derek himself, because I believe it would put this crap to rest. But unfortunately, that’s not how the game is played. But remember, it can backfire on agents too. Ask Scott Boras.
Melk Man November 22nd, 2010 at 11:12 pm
“Pat, if there are leaks coming out of the Yankee camp, Levine would be the logical suspect…..not Steinbrenner/Cashman.”
Doesn’t matter who is the one doing the leaking… it is likely an organizational thing, so Levine would be speaking on behalf of the organization, including Cash and Hal.
The days of guys like Levine acting on his own are over. Cash got Hank to disappear into thin air, if he wanted Levine to pipe down, it would have been done.
———————————————————————————————————————-
What did Cashman do, fire the team owner/president? GMS and the family are the likely ones to reign him in. Do you usually walk into your boss’s office and tell him to shut up and mind his own business?
# GreenBeret7 November 22nd, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Pat, if there are leaks coming out of the Yankee camp, Levine would be the logical suspect…..not Steinbrenner/Cashman.
————
Agreed. Hal and Cashman don’t roll that way.
You can’t put a muzzle on everybody. These so-called leaks could be from anybody.
This contract talk crap is just ridiculously boring and the majority on this board is eating it up.
The media does this crap to get people talking and to amp up controversy. Nothing more.
Jeter and MO saw what the Yanks did with Torre and Bernie. They saw how they made Andy take an incentive-based deal in 2007 (minor compared to the other two, but still relevant).
The Yanks have shown they have no problem getting down and dirty and cutting ties with their great players, so they have every right to ask for the moon and try and take the Yankees to the cleaners.
Remember the last negotiation with Jorge and MO… both used Torre’s firing against the Yankees with on-the-record quotes (“The Yankees are just another team now” as MO told Pete Abe) and wined and dined openly with other teams, Mets, Dodgers, Giants, Tigers, etc.
Jeter and MO have to look out for their best interests.
Jeter and Mo have an ace in the hole. They know that if things get nasty the ghost of George is going to smack Hal in the head and say, “boy, what the hell are you doing”?
The exact dollars and years aren’t really the issue. The issue is there is a limit that people see as reasonable and everyones definition of reasonable is different.
The sides will figure out what reasonable is to them.
It’s always the children that get hurt in the process.
Straw, I thought the comments were asinine because Close was basically saying the Yankees should pay Jeter whatever he wants because he’s their modern version of Babe Ruth……….He’s an agent and that’s his job, but the Yankees can’t do that. I love Jeter, never criticize him and I won’t do it now……but the Yankees have to think about their future (something Jeter is not thinking about). They’ve got too many big contracts, their team is aging……………and they’re going to keep paying Jeter at an age where he may be in real decline?
Hal is the one that employs Levine and allows him to make public statements.
So how is Hal not at fault if Levine is the one airing out these negotiations in public? Yankees run a VERY tight ship now. They would know where the leaks were coming from.
As others have said, Levine isin’t acting on his own.
Tar – Exactly!
That’s not what Close said Betsy. He was repeating the Yankees own words.
“There’s a reason the Yankees themselves have stated Derek Jeter is their modern-day Babe Ruth,”
Cliff Lee is tearing this team apart
“jeter and rivera remember how cashman dealt with bernie williams and how it went last time with posada and rivera. i said at the time the way cashman treated bernie that it was going to cost him down the road. baseball players have long memories.
jeter and rivera can put on red sox hats any time they want.
and if cashman was smart , he would have taken care of at least one of these contracts a while ago so they couldn’t exert pressure together.
i’m actually getting amused at the predicament cashman and hal have gotten themselves into.
this is going to be fun to watch.”
————————————————————–
The Yankees had no issue with Rivera last time. They dealt with him very well and offered him an extremely generous contract with more money than he even expected. He was willing to sign for as little as 2 years with an option, but asked for 4 years. The Yankees made him a great offer of 3/45 and he accepted.
Right now he is just doing the same exact thing. Shoot high and then start the negotiations. There is no double pressure of the Yankees FO because they have been through this all before.
The last time Rivera was a FA he also said that he wouldn’t play for the Red Sox.
People are turning this Rivera thing into some type of pressure negotiation is really funny. Clearly the Yankees don’t feel any pressure there because they haven’t even begun negotiating with Mo yet.
I really think you are letting your view of Cashman and Hal cloud your judgment on this one randy.
There is no controversy here with Mo and so far their policy of not extending contracts before their ending has served them very well.
If they extended Jeter after 2009 they would be up sh*** creek right now with how bad that contract would be.
Quotes from Rivera during his last negotiation:
Rivera isn’t happy that Joe Torre could be out as manager in New York and said the team’s decision will be factored into whether he returns.
“I don’t feel good about it,” Rivera said Wednesday, two days after the Yankees’ third straight exit in the first round of the playoffs. “I don’t see why they’re even thinking [about letting Torre go]. I wish he’s back, definitely. If you ask me what I would want, I want him back.”
He said whether Torre returns will help determine whether he remains with the Yankees, the only major league club he’s pitched for.
“It might do a lot of it,” he said. “I mean, I’ve been with Joe for so many years, and the kind of person he has been for me and for my teammates, it’s been great. The thing is that I don’t see why they have to put him in this position.”
“I’m going to be open to hear all offers,” said Rivera, who wants a multiyear contract. “The Yankees had the opportunity and didn’t do nothing with it.”
Rivera was asked if the Yankees would be his first choice regardless of Torre’s status.
“Right now, I can’t tell you that,” he said. “During spring training a lot of things happened, and I realized then, definitely, this is a business.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3057292
“Agreed. Hal and Cashman don’t roll that way”
Hal does this time. 1st guy to say word one about this negotiation was Hal.
“Tar, I’m still not giving handing them the key to the city……….3/45 is very generous; I have no problem with the offer”
Ok that’s the Yankees side of the offer. What’s Jeter’s counter offer?
I say, meet in the middle, shake hands, done.
I also highly doubt that Jeter or Rivera care about what happened with Bernie years ago.
They are looking out for their individual interests, now trying to stick it to someone as some sort of hollow or childish revenge.
Betsy-
Yup. And combine a few overzealous agents with some friendly writers looking to make headlines and you have a developing PR nightmare for the Yankees. But I have a feeling that some sort of a statement from Cash or Hal will be coming if the PR continues to turn against the organization. They will put a stop to the speculation if it gets too out of control ( and in my opinion it’s not there yet).
“A source familiar with both sides said , their “arbitration-ambush” approach in contract negotiations with the captain isn’t doing them any favors. In fact, says the source, the Yankees would do well to remember what makes them an iconic franchise – their great players.
“Players like Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle – and Derek Jeter – are what make the Yankees the Yankees,” the source said. “The iconic players make the iconic franchise, not the other way around.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....8Sports%29
WC, this is the quote:
“There’s a reason the Yankees themselves have stated Derek Jeter is their modern-day Babe Ruth,”
“Derek’s significance to the team is much more than just stats. And yet, the Yankees’ negotiating strategy remains baffling.”
Casey Close wants the Yankees to pay Jeter based on more than stats. As I said, I love Jeter and I’m so proud that he’s represented this franchise for so long, so well. However, this team is not just one player – and it has to put itself in the best position to compete for the near future. Handing Jeter a blank check is not the way to go.
“I really think you are letting your view of Cashman and Hal cloud your judgment on this one randy.”
yeah, too bad i wasn’t a little management kiss ass like you.
I love that source, lol. I read that this morning and had a good laugh.
“Mo 2 years, 25 million”
No way Mo should and would take a pay cut.
lgy-
sorry, i forgot my smiley face
Giuseppe Franco November 22nd, 2010 at 11:23 pm
Completely agree. All posturing. Plenty other ways to play real hardball, this is nothing yet.
Excellent article by Mark Feinsand:
“Why, asks the source, would the Yankees take the chance of alienating the most popular player they’ve had since Mickey Mantle?”
Randy I….I think you’re right on about The Bernie Williams effect, and throw in Joe Torre……..Makes for real good reality television ……As long as the games been played, ballplayers do not trust ownership….Maybe not like the days of slavery but it’s still the suits vs. the jocks……
“I also highly doubt that Jeter or Rivera care about what happened with Bernie years ago.”
I think you wrong on that one LGY. It is had nothing to do with revenge and everything to do with watching your back. You may forget, not only are these guys team mates they are also part of a union. Management screws with a member, you don’t forget that.
Straw, I don’t know if they should do that. The media shouldn’t have any influence on how the Yankees conduct their business…………
You know, we enjoyed the fruits of the core 4 for so long and now we’re paying the piper. It may be sacrilegious, but I’m sort of going to be glad when they are retired ………..NOT because I don’t adore them and won’t miss them, but because then the Yankees can act like a normal franchise
“yeah, too bad i wasn’t a little management kiss ass like you.”
———————————–
I would say I am far from a management kiss ass.
I very much like Cashman, but have been very critical of the Rodriguez contract and have extremely critical of how much management is willing to pay Jeter. I don’t think 3/45 should have been their opening offer. I think it should have been close to their if not their ceiling for what they offer him.
I just think you are distorting the facts a bit here based on really nothing in terms of what is going on with Mariano. Which it is nothing, because they haven’t even begun exchanging offers yet.
Betsy-
I wonder if that source is Boras. He would be familiar with both sides.
Betsy I know what the quote is, Close was right. The Yankees are arguing in the press and trying to de-value Jeter. It will come out that Jeter is not asking for 5-6 years but 4 years as Feinsand’s source suggests.
sorry, i forgot my smiley face
——————————
Didn’t see this before my 1135 response.
That smiley face changes everything!!!
WC, glad I didn’t read that article. So the Yankees should give Jeter whatever he wants to because they are scared that he won’t ever speak to them or have anything to do with them? That’s a chance I’ll take. I’m a Yankee fan, not just a Jeter fan. The idea of caving to almost emotional blackmail makes me ill.
Well excuse me for posting the full quote.
One thing that probably didn’t set well was Levine’s constant references to Jeter as being just a ball player.
Betsy read the article, what are you afraid of it’s interesting for any Yankee fan.
We’re never going to agree, WC and I refuse to read that article. I didn’t see it this morning and that quote just makes me completely turn away from Feinsand’s slop.
I’m not afraid of anything……..but I don’t need to read the article; it’s summed up in the line you quoted. As I said, the Yankees can not cower in fear of the all powerful Jeter. This is a team that has issues to concern itself with if it wants to be a serious contender in the best division in baseball. They can not give Jeter whatever he wants just to keep him happy….
?Players like Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle ? and Derek Jeter ? are what make the Yankees the Yankees,? the source said. ?The iconic players make the iconic franchise, not the other way around.?
Arbitration ambush and iconic are not words you’d hear from the average baseball player. More the language of someone with union affiliation.
“Maybe not like the days of slavery but it’s still the suits vs. the jocks……”
pat m-
the average fan has no idea how deep these feelings go with players.
“Does he still gets outs during the regular season? Does he get outs in the post season? Yes, just in a differnt and equally efficient way.”
OK, but $15m a year for two years seems to be a fair way to compensate him for that.
Betsy you are a trip sometimes, refusing to read an article that was published today by a respected beat writer who has obviously been digging and talking to an inside source on a subject you pontificate about endlessly.
Damned that Curt Flood anyway.
Actually, acquiring Cliff Lee is way more important than either of these two negotiations. I hope the front office is devoting all their time, energy and resources to that right now.
Tar,
The athlete that does not watch his back and 100% look out for his own interests is few and far between.
Bernie doesn’t change that.
Randy, I do…………….the Black Sox scandal arose out of the players hatred of their owner. Up until FA, the owners held the hammer……….
I do not begrudge the players for going after what they want or think they are worth………this is a free market system and they have the right to ask for what they want. The teams also have the right to not accede to the players’ requests.
“They are looking out for their individual interests, now trying to stick it to someone as some sort of hollow or childish revenge.”
It’s not looking for revenge… it’s realizing the premise that the Yankees won’t show loyalty to them based on what they did, if they don’t feel they can still help the team. Bernie only got a ST invite in 2007. Torre was asked to take a discount, etc. Again, those were the right baseball moves, but likely looked at in a negative light by the players. Remember, players rarely side with management.
For example, how can Jeter negotiate an option year in good faith, knowing it will likely be declined, even if he performs decently? Or MO trusting the Yankees to go year to year and not reducing salary, even if he has a down year (like they did to Andy in 2009)?
Let’s simplify it – Based on the events of the past, I don’t think Jeter/MO trust the Yankees to treat them with the respect they feel they deserve, based on what they did in the past. They see them handing out Burnett $16 million, Farnsworth all this money etc, to do nothing, Bernie being pushed aside for Doug M. etc. and they get paranoid. They want to get theirs now because they know the Yankees won’t have their back if THEY feel the players skills have eroded.
WC, give me a break. Who’s Feinsand respected by? His mother? He’s ok, but I am under NO obligation to read every article written………if you want to, go ahead.
Oh and don’t tell ME I pontificate endlessly when you are doing the same thing.
Oy vey…
Characterizing a situation when you only have partial information can be dicey enough.
Being sanctimonious with partial information is a bit much.
It’s only negotiations. All of this is just part of the routine. This happens every year.
And a big reason why information is leaked to the press is to start orchestrating the emotions of fans.
And every year it works.
Close is stupid. If he really wants to get the Yankees to cave, set up a meeting with the Sux and see how fast the Yankees give in to his demands.
You don’t have to read anything, I didn’t say you did. But I have never encountered someone so interested in a subject who wouldn’t want to read current, up-to-date information on it. You have no idea what the article says, Feinsand is a beat writer not a columnist like Lupica. He is not taking an editorial position or giving his opinion. He is reporting on what a source told him and layering it in the context of “BOTH SIDES.
CB, the media wants to leak things, sure……..but why on earth would the Yankees want to leak things?
“Actually, acquiring Cliff Lee is way more important than either of these two negotiations. I hope the front office is devoting all their time, energy and resources to that right now.”
That actually might be another negative factor contributing to these Jeter negotiations… the idea that they are falling over themselves and willing to overpay for Lee and go all out for him, rather than pay the iconic Yankee who has delivered 5 rings, what he feels he deserves.
The Yanks have shown they will go all out for Lee… visiting him on the first day, leaking $115-$120 bid to Cafardo, etc.
Betsy-
I believe CB is referring to agents.
Is there any reporter that you think is not respected? Why do so many people dislike the word reporter when they hear it? It’s like fingernails on a chalkboard. There are few that are any longer worth reading once they decided it was their given right and duty to invade peoples private lives.
Straw, then I say let the Yankees call his bluff………….I think they would.
WC, that quote summed up everything for me………I responded. Frankly, I generally avoid all articles about contract talks. I’m not about to stop posting here, so of course I talk about it………but no, I really have no interest in these types of articles. It’s “wake me when it’s over” when it comes to that sort of thing
pat m & randy l -
I can understand how players at one time in baseball history would feel that way, but players today have a very strong union, have free agency, and make decent salaries. I am talking about ML players, of course.
Not saying I expect lovey-dovey, but in most cases, would there really be that much acrimony?
I can understand how ultimately, at the end of a career, a player is at one of the most vulnerable situations in that career. And even in the best relationships, at the end of the day, it’s the owner who will more than likely start the conversation about it being the end of the line. And how difficult it must be to face that – especially when 36 is not “old” in the world outside of sports.
With players who’ve had success and made tons of money – I just don’t understand that there would be this undertone of mistrust. It’s certainly not slavery anymore, and certainly not slave wages.
lgy-
see, if it’s contentious with you being pro management and me being pro player, you can imagine what it’s like with the real management and the real players.
this jeter/rivera/yankee management showdown is going to get real interesting.
Straw…….oh, lol. Well darn, I guess I fell for them…….though admittedly, Hal started it by talking about the Jeter talks on air.
When dealing with Jeter, you don’t even have to listen to the anonymous leaks. There is enough on-the-record information available to draw a somewhat reasonable conclusion about the state of the negotiation. The anonymous stuff just corroborates what is already on the record.
They said it was going to be private, yet it has been anything but, and it has nothing to do with anonymous leaks.
The Yankees have clearly leaked the Jeter and Mo information. First of all, they didn’t deny it and that’s huge. The Yankees are about as secretive as an organization can be when they want to be. Secondly, it’s a classic trial balloon to gauge agent’s and fan’s reaction to their position. It’s stupid and inappropriate and will backfire on them.
I’m sure the Yankees are concentrating on Lee – they can do more than one thing at once. However, there’s nothing to do- Lee isn’t taking offers now and my guess is he won’t until after Thanksgiving.
I’m pro-player AND pro-management, if that’s possible, lol
randy,
That is where we disagree tonight.
I don’t see any showdown between Rivera and the Yankees. I don’t see any controversy there.
I think your are trying to wrongly IMO bring Mo into these Jeter negotiations when while there is controversy with Jeter, Mo is not an issue and doesn’t look like he will be.
97-
At the end of the day, a Cy Young caliber SP is worth going all out for more than a SS, or even Mo (gasp, I hated to say that). If I could only have one of the three this year, I would pick Lee over Mo (slightly), and DJ (not slightly). And I love Jete as much as the next guy. But bad pitching is what did us in in the ALCS.
“It’s stupid and inappropriate and will backfire on them.”
And the source in Feinsand’s article said as much. It’s obvious.
Jeter and especially MO, are going to win the PR battle in this one. Easy.
Straw, I agree……..and this is where players are at cross-purposes with the team. They are just interested in themselves, and that’s fine…..but the team has obligations and a future to think about. The Yankees NEED Lee…………
“The Yankees have clearly leaked the Jeter and Mo information. First of all, they didn’t deny it and that’s huge. The Yankees are about as secretive as an organization can be when they want to be. Secondly, it’s a classic trial balloon to gauge agent’s and fan’s reaction to their position. It’s stupid and inappropriate and will backfire on them.”
—————————-
You have a strange definition of “clearly.”
They don’t have anything to gain regarding leaking what Mariano wants and all indications so far is that they themselves don’t even know what he wants.
I read Passan’s “information” as him finding a source in Mo’s camp and then just reprinting what the entire world has known for a year now. That the Yankees prefer one year.
This is not a fan reaction test in regard to Mariano. Anyone with half a brain could have told you the Yankees prefer to go year to year to Mo. People have been saying it for over a year now.
TheStarw
This is the Yankees, You can have your cake and eat it too.
Nothing like Hot Stove season… love it…
BX33 November 22nd, 2010 at 11:54 pm
“It’s stupid and inappropriate and will backfire on them.”
And the source in Feinsand’s article said as much. It’s obvious.
Jeter and especially MO, are going to win the PR battle in this one. Easy.
**************
I agree.
I am not a cynic. I have been “pro-Jeter” for lack of better terminology.
But I find it difficult to call anyone who’s been paid the way these guys have been paid as disrespected. They have been paid well for their services. They are not begging for scraps and their families and families’ families don’t have to want for anything. If they never play again, if the Yankees shut the door on them, they don’t have to work another day of their lives.
I guess when the money gets to be more monopoly than real, things are looked at in terms of loyalty and respect.
I am not a cynic. I have been “pro-Jeter” for lack of better terminology.
But I find it difficult to call anyone who’s been paid the way these guys have been paid as disrespected. They have been paid well for their services. They are not begging for scraps and their families and families’ families don’t have to want for anything. If they never play again, if the Yankees shut the door on them, they don’t have to work another day of their lives.
I guess when the money gets to be more monopoly than real, things are looked at in terms of loyalty and respect.
And…tomorrow we get the MVP award, more hysteria lol. ! I love ya’ to death Robbie baby but it’s not your year.
Not so easy……..if you go onto boards, many fan are very happy with how the Yankees have handled Jeter so far and, in fact, they think the team has been too generous. Obviously most fans do not go on boards and blogs, but they are still a decent representation of how many fans feel. Undoubtedly many fans will feel that the Yankees should cave and give what Jeter and Mo want, but I don’t think it’s a majority……..or close to.
Tar- I hope so…but I get nervous that everyone is treating the Lee deal as a fait accompli. The other two contracts will get worked out.
Straw, it’s not – I agree.
Meaning, it’s no fait accompli
The Yankees are framing this entire Jeter thing as if their opening offer is very generous and is already compensating him for who he is.
I have no problem with how they have handled it so far.
Close seems like the desperate one, trying to cite history and legacy instead of the ballplayer Jeter is.
It is similar to Ryan, when he tries to sell living in Texas in the media to Lee instead of money.
What really talks is how much Jeter has left in the tank and Close has been very careful to stay away from that topic.
I bet Close also knows how much it would hurt his negotiations with the Yankees if he starts fielding offers from other teams.
The Yankees can just let that 3/45 offer sit on the table. No other team is going to beat that and Close knows it.
lgy-
my point is simply that jeter and rivera have all kinds of leverage here and will not be dictated to by the yankee management .
i think cashman has developed a level of respect with the players.
i think they’ll treat hal with respect.
i think randy levine should stay the hell out of it because all he can do is tick jeter and rivera off.
i feel the same way about him as pat m does.
And in reality, the outcome of Lee holds up much of the other stuff because they may have to make more changes if they don’t get him in order to get a SP. That in turn affects how much guys get and for how long. Maybe they are simply stalling.
?The Yankees have clearly leaked the Jeter and Mo information. ”
If they leaked it, they would be getting better press from the leak.
My guess is someone involved with the union or an agent is the source.
Derek and Mo’s contract set comps for the rest of the dominos to fall and the higher the better for everyone else.
Randy Levine is a bad apple. He may do a good job internally, and you have the George factor, but he should be kept locked up and gagged.
The Yankees got themselves into this mess. When they want a free agent, or traded player who will stay on i.e. Teixera, they pay them. In truth, the problem stems from Arod and paying him his ridiculous salary. These guys have done nothing but lead the team most of the last 15 yrs. Now the Yankees want Lee, but they don’t want to increase their budget. Jeter and Mo want a piece of the pie, who can blame them.
Have they been well paid….by all means, but they keep looking and seeing guys added to the team at outrageous salaries. Listen CC can opt out too…then what?
The Yankees got themselves into this vicious circle.
Straw
I agree. I agree they will, and honestly should have already. And you are right, it certainly can’t be helping at all with the C. Lee negotiations. Good night all.
pat if that were true the Yankees would have denied it.
Tin Cup…..Trust is a wide divide when it comes a ballplayer vs. management…..Do remember that Jeter had to fight to win his arb hearing and then was awarded his 10 year deal……Most people have an inflated sense of self worth and especially true with professional athletes……As I stated earlier,in teh end both guys will get closer to what they want rather than what ownership wants to give…..
I don’t trust Levine. I’m sure he has his uses, but I wish he’d stay out of these particular negotiations.
People still think Levine is acting alone here, without blessing from ownership?
Sigh…
So if Cashman/Hal are not on board with Levine, you are saying they are knowingly allowing Hal to sabotage their negotiation, without approving of it. And in the end, Hal is the one who will take all the hits, not Levine. Does that make any sense?
This isin’t the mid 2000s anymore, folks. Levine is speaking on behalf of the organization.
*that should read they are knowingly allowing LEVINE
Anyone get the feeling that MO will wait to see a little more of how the Jeter negotiation unfolds before he seriously engages in his negotiation? He does have all the leverage, he can pull it off.
And as much as I distrust Levine, I’m still not hearing exactly what besides his statement the other day he said or did.
MorningPerson November 23rd, 2010 at 12:06 am
I don’t trust Levine. I’m sure he has his uses, but I wish he’d stay out of these particular negotiations.
———————————————————————————————————————
People have been trying to figure out what his uses are for 11 years, now.
Straw, I think Mo and Jeter are separate issues…….the Yankees will offer them what they want to offer them whether Lee is here or not, whether they need to deal off assets or not. I hate that they are in this situation re: the pitching …………yet again. CC worked out, but AJ really hasn’t……….we thought we’d have Joba and Phil established by now. It’s annoying that we are in a position of desperation with Lee and Andy.
Yanks sure have some embarrassing people playing prominent roles in their brand – Jon Sterling, Kay, Levine, Trost, King Felix, Hank for a while, etc.
Levine is like the sneaky little rich kid on the block that breaks his neck to snitch on everyone.
Melk Man November 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 am
***People still think Levine is acting alone here, without blessing from ownership?***
Sigh…
So if Cashman/Hal are not on board with Levine, you are saying they are knowingly allowing Hal to sabotage their negotiation, without approving of it. And in the end, Hal is the one who will take all the hits, not Levine. Does that make any sense?
***This isin’t the mid 2000s anymore, folks. Levine is speaking on behalf of the organization.***
_______________________________________________________________
This is the exact reason Levine is the mouthpiece, b/c people don’t want to blame Hal, Cash etc., so Levine serves that role of bad guy, and Hal and Cash keep their “squeaky clean” images in the Jeter is just a ballplayer and will not be paid as the icon narrative.
If Levine is behind this, it speaks poorer on Hal for allowing it, than it does Levine. We know Levine is a clown. It’s the owner’s job to muzzle him. Hal could figure out a way to muzzle his brother, but not a stooge like Levine?
Frankly, if the statements aren’t made in unison, it reflects poorly of the Yankees, more so than Levine. Thus, it is reasonable to conclude that Levine is merely speaking on behalf of the organization, like he has in the past.
WCYF
PR 101- If you deny anything, the first time you don’t deny it, you’ve confirmed it.
Saying nothing is something Cashman is a HOFer at. People still have no idea how AJ got a black eye, why Eiland was not retained and how they interviewed and hired a pitching coach that was on no ones radar.
“This is the exact reason Levine is the mouthpiece, b/c people don’t want to blame Hal, Cash etc., so Levine serves that role of bad guy, and Hal and Cash keep their “squeaky clean” images in the Jeter is just a ballplayer and will not be paid as the icon narrative.”
Bingo… that’s why the organization keeps Levine around, for times like this. He is their shield.
Don’t know if this has been posted, but Willie Randolph is expected to be added to Orioles coaching staff.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....dolph.html
“As I stated earlier,in teh end both guys will get closer to what they want rather than what ownership wants to give?..”
Since you don’t really know what the players want and what management is willing to give how could you know that?
Levine is the club president with a sizable amount of stock. He’s got the authority to say what he wants unless the board wishes to fire him and pay him a fortune to not work there.
pat…..What both players want is NOT a cut in salary…Plain and simple…..
Is this considered a big deal? Of course Rivera deserves 2 years.
“Levine is the club president with a sizable amount of stock. He’s got the authority to say what he wants unless the board wishes to fire him and pay him a fortune to not work there.”
So they would rather he embarrass his star player and the franchise than pay him to go away?
They spend $20 million on Igawa and banish him, they can’t do the same for Levine? For a team as PR-conscious as the Yankees, I find that hard to believe.
The more likely scenario is that he is taking the hits for Cashman/Hal by articulating the organizational stance.
Anything coming from Levine is with the expressed approval of Hal Steinbrenner, you can take that to the bank.
Levine was inherited by The Brothers and his forte is in negotiations and that’s why The Boss hired on……I do think his comments last week about Derek being just a balllayer was his own doing…..I just see Levine wanting to have the upper hand when it comes to the overpaid and greedy baseball players…….Over the years he’s displayed a knack for being a hump……
Pat M
Mo may really want 2 years @$16M per.
The Yankees may really want to give him 2 years @$16M per.
The choreography to get there is just part of the dance no matter what un-named sources want to say.
pat…..It’s all part of the November / December scenery that we’ve come know……I did think the Jeter / Rivera contracts would be concluded before the Winter Meetings, looks like I’m way off base on that…..
One thing the Yanks need to do is make sure that Rivera is a scouting evaluator in Central America.
Mo knows….ball players
The fact that some fans think this is solely Levine’s doing shows that the Yankees accomplished their mission. They effectively used him as the “shield” to Cashman/Hal. Levine looks like the bad guy, Cashman/Hal are exonerated…
Someone needs to get Torre’s input on this situation… he went through it. Maybe get some off=the=record quotes aboput the inner workings of the Yankees and Levine’s role as the bad cop.
4time…..Did I miss something about Levine’s quotes ??? I thought he was just responding to a question as opposed to a thought out statement……It wasn’t as though he was in search of a forum to get this bs out to the media……
All the talk about Levine made me want to read what he said because I didn’t remember reading it and thinking “uh-oh” at the time. Here are Levine’s quotes:
“The will is there to get it done,” Yankees president Randy Levine said. “And I believe there is a way.”
“Everything he is and who he is gets factored in,” Levine said. “But this isn’t a licensing deal or commercial rights deal, he’s a baseball player. With that said, you can’t take away who he is. He brings a lot to the organization and we bring a lot to him.
“He’s a baseball player and we are doing a negotiation with a baseball player. A lot goes into a negotiation with a player. But this isn’t the same negotiation as 10 years ago. It is a different time, a different place and a different stage.”
Just catching up on Hot Stove action here. I see we’re all worked up over Mo’s alleged stance. I’ve always believed that:
1. Mo will get 2 years and $30 million.
2. Jeter will get 4 years and $60 million.
3. Andy will get 1 year and $10-12 million with incentives.
But I’ve also said that I firmly believe that if Lee is signed, and is given more AAV than CC’s current contract, CC will opt out, and frankly I don’t blame him. CC is also a lefty, but is younger, and has been more durable in his career thus far. It would be a slap in the face for Lee to be given a matching or higher AAV when arguably he’s not been as effective – with the exception of the post-season.
Lastly, Andy retires if the unthinkable of Jeter and/or Mo being not re-signed.
If CC opts out, let him walk and wait for Felix.
The fact is, most ball players are businessmen as well and to say that they are ball players as though it was a dirty word will rankle them. It’s not likely that Levine would like being called a lackey or a goffer for billionaires. Just the way I feel about him. His attitude towards Williams and Torre was no different. The fact is that he comes off as thinking that he’s better than them.
Levine is correct about this not being the same as the last time. Then, they were dealing with a very young and talented ballplayer. They are now dealing with very talented ball player/businessmen and team and baseball icons on the verge of HOF status that the team will be more than happy to exploit as Yankee HOFers.
I believe CC said publicly that he wasn’t going to opt out. Is that not correct?
I believe CC said publicly that he wasn’t going to opt out. Is that not correct?
–
So did A-rod
# Jerkface November 23rd, 2010 at 2:10 am
I believe CC said publicly that he wasn’t going to opt out. Is that not correct?
–
So did A-rod
A-Rod never said he wasn’t gonna opt out IIRC.
He just said he wanted to be a Yankee no matter what.
The Yankees would have a lot more financial flexiblity if they’d had a coach with a public philosophy to prevent players from opting out.
I stopped understanding what I was typing about halfway through. Sorry, it’s been a long day.
Mo will get 2 years, 33 million. As he should.
There’s no one on the roster more necessary,consistent and/or representative of Yankee excellence.
I’m astounded by how many Yankees fans are willing to let Jeter and Rivera walk.
I don’t care how ineffective Jeter seemed to be last year, how old he is or how old Rivera is.
They should be exempt from haggling. They are legendary Yankees and this is the last contract for both. Pay them. Just effing PAY THEM! The Yankees are the wealthiest team in American sports, and they do not need to tighten their belts with these two all-time greats. Do not weep for the poor cash-strapped Yankees! They have plenty of money. Just hand Derek and Mo the keys to the vault and move on to normal business with everyone else.
Back in the 70′s and 80′s we used to boo George M. at the stadium anytime we saw him. Since the 90′s championships the public has softened to GMS, but I remember how we excoriated him for ruining the team 25-30 years ago. I’ve rooted for the Mick, Whitey, Elston, Yogi, Mel, Bobby M, Thurman, Willie, Reggie, Donnie Baseball, Dave Winfield, Bernie, Andy, Jorge, Derek and Mo. But I’ve never rooted for a GM, President or Owner.
Give them what they want!
Right on Jordan.
2 year 18 million is kind of a no brainer !!
Good morning, morning people.
I could not last out the night’s discussion. But I’m glad to see that pat posted Levine’s entire quote. I’ll say again that there is nothing inherently wrong or disrespectful there. (I don’t like Levine, but fair is fair.) And I’m glad Pat M. also asked, as I had earlier, what about what Levine said had I missed?
I do not enjoy negotiations through the media, but this is a story and whether there are leaks or not, this is going to be written about. And the writers/editors are not going to be content with, “there is no new in the Jeter/Mariano negotiations. We’re waiting for a comment from the involved parties.” And then a rehashing of career stats and highlights.
Oh, well. If this goes on much longer, I may have to go into hibernation!
*****
I had hoped for this to be done by Thanksgiving. I guess that’s not going to happen, But frankly, I don’t really understand why.
Love the Yankees, love Mo, love Jeter, and with that being said, I’m sick of multi-millionaires acting like they’re not being treated with respect, when in fact they have become millionaires due to baseball, and the generosity of the Yankees as well. The Yankees tend to over pay their good players, and spoil them. Now the spoiled ones want to rape the team for that one last big contract, and do not care how those contracts will impact the team next year, and the years going forward. These are not minimum wage guys that need the people’s support in order to get a living wage. I was totally on the players side coming into these contract negotiations, but now I’m not sure I feel the same, if the stories coming out are true. All this fighting in the press might cause the Yankees to lose Lee to the Angles or Texas, and that will have a greater impact on the team than either Mo or Jeter contracts.
Re : Cashman’s response to “baffling” in today’s Post.
I do believe this (Jeter negotiations) could be taking an ugly turn for the simple fact the Casey Close chose to go to avowed Yankee hater Mike Lupica of the NY Daily News to go public his grievances.
And why Cashman has responded in kind in the press.
Imo going to Lupica is viewed as a stick in the eye by the Yankees.
I too am sick of all the negotiating within in the Press. It doesn’t make the Players or the Team look good. HOWEVER ,,,,this is Sports in the new century and this is just how business is done now a days.
The Yanks are in a tough spot . Give Jeter his 4 years . .Hopefully we get 2 and half good years out of him. and give Mo his 2 years . Hopefully we’ll get at least one more dominant year out Mo.
No Question about it . . The Yankees will be eating Years and Money on these two guys. They won’t be getting Full Value on the contracts thats for sure.
AL,
I hear ya but to be fair I don’t think Jeter or Rivera have said anything yet…..their agents have but that’s what they are going to do because its their job. The Yankee players know that the team brings in over 600 million a year and they know they are responsible for that.
Hold the line for awhile at 3/45 with Jeter but ultimately compromise on 4/60. Front load the deal so that he doesn’t take a paycut initially but the salary goes down as he nears 40….that allows him to go into next season making the same money but gives the team more flexibility as he ages. Give Rivera the 2 years but try and stay around 30 million if you can…..may have to bend on that one if if insists but I think he would ultimately agree to 2/30.
Good morning early risers,
I am rarely awake at this hour to join you.
As I said last night. This is the Yankees problem……we can do nothing but wait. The Yankees have given huge contracts to players who may or may not have deserved them, and now so of our “old timers” want a larger piece of the pie. This was bound to happen. If a team wants it all, they will have to pay the piper.
good morning
I didn’t have the heart to read all of the over night posts, just the last bit. I agree w/ Jordan at 3:59. Just pay them (a reasonable amount, but more than they would get on the open market) and move on, to trash players publicly is so red sox-ish
wow, you are up early SAS
blake -
If we are going to sit here and say that undenied/unaddressed leaks have the tacit approval of Yankees’ ownership and management, then one has to reach the conclusion that if the player remains quiet, any leaks and forays into Lupica-ville by an agent have the tacit approval of the players they represent. Especially if some are advancing the idea that these not “just ballplayers, but businessmen as well,” who would be insulted by being called ballplayers.
I have felt all along that for Jeter (and Mo) you don’t do the ordinary – and you don’t make them the example of the new financial religion. If anyone deserves to be grandfathered into budgetary responsibility, it’s these two. After these three contracts, it should be the last time the Yankees have to deal with re-signing legendary players for a long time.
Just get it done, rip off the bandaid all at once and move on.
Really hope Robbie wins the MVP today….I don’t think he will but I truly believe he was the most valuable position player in the AL this year. Despite the names in the Yankee lineup, Robbie carried it for big stretches of the season and played legit gold glove defense. Hamilton had a great year as well but you could even argue that for stretches Vlad was the biggest threat thy had and he missed most of September…..expecting Hamilton to win but we’ll see.
I don’t get the anger that the Yankees want to pay Jeter what he is worth as a player and then some above that. What team overpays as thank you? Answer–none. To think paying $20M/year to a player no longer productive is a sure way to mediocrity. There is a budget and will always be one.
I have watched the Yankees succeed and fail over 50 years. The team is bigger than any player, and the reason for the Yankees success is winning. I don’t want more dark years ahead. The Yankees got old in 1965 and it took years to recover.
People get criticized for being pro-management. I am pro team. It’s called being a fan.
I really hope Robbie wins today as well, but I agree, it will probably go to Hamilton…still, winning a golden glove and silver slugger is nothing to sneeze at
Morning,
That’s probably true but im guessing its to a lesser extent than from the Yankees side. I.can’t see Jeter and Close sitting in a war room and carefully choosing words to leak to the press as the Yankees may be doing. Most likely Jeter trusts Close and has just advised him to get him the best deal he can and is letting him run the show. So while he does have Jeters blessing Im thinking its not.exactly the same…..but who really knows.
Austinmac
I have watched the Yankees succeed and fail over 50 years. The team is bigger than any player, and the reason for the Yankees success is winning. I don?t want more dark years ahead. The Yankees got old in 1965 and it took years to recover.
- My Dad said the same thing last night !.. Personally i think the Yanks have alot more money and resources to prevent what happened in the mid to late 60′s.. But my dad doesn’t want to hear it . .LOL
Pat M. November 22nd, 2010 at 10:46 pm
Rich in NJ…….Do you have labor issues with your employees ???? Seems that you take a hard line which is fine of course……However you seem to dismiss the fact Jeter & Rivera are major cogs in the Yankee wheel……..
_________________________________________________________
You do realize that in nine of the last ten years that the team that didn’t have Jeter and Rivera is the team that won the World Series??? These guys are not vital to winning. Especially when they want to tie management’s hands as far as having money to bring in other players.
I’m all for paying Mo & Jeter a premium over their true value, but, I think it would be fair if both sides sat down and were honest, as to market value of a SS of Jeter’s age and abilites, let’s just say that came in at $10-12 million, and the Yankess said, OK your value on the open market is $12 million tops, we’ll add $5 million to that, for 3 years. With Mo, I think his true market value is around $12 million, add $5 million to that for 2 years, and get it done like gentlemen. I would only give Jeter a 4th year option, with both sides being able to excercise the option.
Age/injuries were only a short time issue for the Yankees back in ’65. It started when Del Webb and Dan Topping decided to sell the Yankees around 1962 and stopped spending on the minor leagues. CBS bout the team in late ’64 and did nothing with the team as far as trying to rebuild. What CBS sold to GMS in 1973 was a “pig in a poke”. It was just a shell of what they used to be. Murcer, Munson and Stottlemyre were the only recognizable names on the team.
Good Morning.
“Like a circle in a spiral. Like a wheel within a wheel. Never ending or
beginning on an ever spinning reel. Like the circles that you find in
the windmills of your mind.”
Round and round she goes where she stops nobody knows.
blake -
My contention is that Hal and Levine’s statements were open remarks and not leaks.
The other stuff? Who knows where exactly it came from? People make assumptions.
And if people are going to say that baseball players are businessmen, then those businessmen have to take responsibility for whatever their agent (who works on behalf of them) do or say, don’t they? “Just get me the best deal and talk to me when it’s done/show me where to sign” is tacit approval of whatever tactics the agent uses. It seems to me it’s a way of making sure any ill will is directed away from the players (whether it’s toward an aggressive agent like Boras or ownership/management).
****
I would love for Robbie to win today. But I’m ready for him to be in third place.
OK Cash. Time for you to show your skill.
Coulda’ worked for Ringling Bros.
Knows how to juggle multiple balls in the air at the same time.
Catch ‘em all at the end w/o dropping a single one. ;
blake -
Do you think for one minute Jeter hasn’t sat down with Close and said, This is what I want, and no less, now go and get me the contract I want. I believe to think other wise would be a mistake. If Jeter thought for one second his agent was harming his image, he’d rein him in. Jeter is looking out for Jeter, not the Yankees, and not for his teammates.
When Jeter becomes more of a liabilty than an assest, the team will still have limited funds to get additional players based on his contract.
Folks have to stop saying how much money the Yankees have, and how they could afford to do this or that. The Yankees do not want to keep paying other teams through the luxury tax year after year. Pay out $75 million, on top of salaries, in tax is insane.
GB,
Age was huge issue in 1965. Mantle, Ford, Skowron, et al. Yes, and CBS went cheap. The Yankees, much to our disappointment, are not the only company in America not to have a budget. Overpaying any player, legend or not, will have adverse consequences.
I agree with Big Al. Overpay, but have limits.
Big Al…that’s how it should be done (and probably will).
Morning,
Agreed. Part of the agents job is to take any ill will or hard feelings. Same reason regular folks have attourneys negociate deals for them…..it’ll get done.
Good morning MTU
Kate,
I am in NY, and it seems on no special time. I nap a lot. I am not too terrific with the time change bit.
Anyway good to see you. I do read your posts when I have time to catch up.
Have a great Thanksgiving with the family.
Good morning MTu….beat you to the key board…lol
How are you Al ?
Sometimes when people draw lines in the sand they can form a box, and then sometimes they find out it really isn’t sand, and that it really isn’t a box. It’s a cage, or a prison of their own making.
N’est pas ?
SAS-
How are you enjoying your time back East ?
thanks SAS, you have a great Thanksgiving as well
Blake, I just don’t see any reason to cave…………..and that’s an interesting point someone brought up about Close going to Lupica.
I don’t think Lee is going to care about how the Yankees negotiations with Jeter and Mo are going; he doesn’t know them and it’s not his business…….and he’s not a babe in the woods. He knows how negotiations go.
MTU -
Life is a two way street.
AL,
I don’t disagree. Im.sure Jeter has conveyed to Close what he wants but he is likely letting him do his job to get it. Also, sure the Yankees have every right to pay their players what they want but from Jeter and Riveras POV they know that the franchise is as well off as it is now in part because of them and Im sure they want to be compensated for that. Did people expect them and their agents to just say” we’ll take whatever they offer and be happy with it”…..each side will fight to get what they want before compromising, that’s just the way it always is.
I don’t see any reason to give Jeter 4 years…………although I don’t think he’s done, there is a good chance he’s starting to decline and 3 years is more than generous. For Mo, I don’t even hesitate – give him the 2 years.
Al-
Stay loose and flexible and the parties might just slip out between the bars and avoid the prison, and the consequences of remaining.
Al, I agree completely. I’m all for overpaying to a point…………..I’d rather overpay in $$$ than years.
blake -
I don’t disagree. I just thought that the history between these two players and the Yankees, would have meant enough to both sides to sit down and get this done like gentlemen, and not have this playing out in the sports pages, like it appears it’s going to continue to do. At this point I don’t care who’s right or wrong, cut the crap, and get it done, now!
Wouldn’t it be nice if a player’s contract and his desire to play ended at the same time??
“For want of a nail, the shoe was lost,
For want of the shoe, the horse was lost,
For want of the horse, the rider was lost,
For want of the rider, the battle was lost,
For want of the battle, the kingdom was lost,
And all for the want of a nail!”
MTU -
Don’t get too philosophical on me, it’s too early for sleep deprived people to think clearly.
MP
altho he wasn’t a favorite of mine, I admired the way Mussina ended his career
MP -
From your mouth to God’s ear. Yes it would, but, we all know that’s never going to happen.
AL,
I’ve said a few times that they should just lock themselves in a room and not.come out until its done…I think both side could benefit from resolving this as quickly as they can.
Al-
Is there enough love between the parties or is it strictly buisness ?
Because smart people always take love over gold, and if there isn’t they might just be missing a nail for their shoes.
Here it goes:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....Yg4YHNQZNO
Yesterday, general manager Brian Cashman strongly denied the organization has acted that way with its shortstop, captain and all-time hits leader.
“There is nothing baffling about our position,” Cashman said. “We have been very honest and direct with them, not through the press. We feel our offer is appropriate and fair. We appreciate the contributions Derek has made to our organization and we have made it clear to them. Our primary focus is his on-the-field performance the last couple of years in conjunction with his age, and we have some concerns in that area that need to be addressed in a multi-year deal going forward.
********
Cash is exactly right. If Close wants to play the “awww, Jeter is not getting enough respect” game, he’s going to sound foolish (already has)
kate -
Your right. Some players today would have said to the Yankees, hey, I just won 20 games for this team, give me a contract for $22 million, because I’m me.
Blake-
It is a trial of sorts so I like your analogy.
It wouldn’t hurt if Mariano developed a good complimentary change-up to go along with his devastating cutter and two-seamer to give hitters another thing to think about at the plate.
back in a bit.
BL:
Both sides need to bend or tragedy is going to ensue.
No one would come out a winner in the worse case scenario.
“I just thought that the history between these two players and the Yankees, would have meant enough to both sides to sit down and get this done like gentlemen, and not have this playing out in the sports pages, like it appears it’s going to continue to do.”
Well said. Couldn’t agree more. Nature of the negotiation beast dictates there will be some contentiousness, so it wasn’t especially necessary for Hal S to go to the press and say in effect “this could get contentious and here’s why”. He wasn’t wrong, and the reported offer is more than fair, but going to the press with it set a bad tone, IMO.
Close is the one who took his complaints to the media, so he’s the one who looks bad – and desperate.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....ZLrPkbZRkN
The Yankees have offered Jeter $45 million over three years, which is being portrayed by the shortstop’s increasingly desperate camp as an insult. Except, of course, it is hard to find another organization ready to insult Jeter in similar fashion.
And even if there were such an organization, Jeter would not want to go. That combination gives the Yankees a little thing called leverage.
When Jeter had the leverage a decade ago, he translated it into a 10-year, $189 million contract. Now the Yankees are not supposed to use their leverage. Why? Because I am Derek Jeter, pay me.
The Jeter camp described the negotiations as baffling. Really? It is baffling that the Yankees want to pay Jeter for what he is and what he projects to be in his declining seasons rather than for what he was?
They already have paid $205 million for his prime, a little fact the Jeter camp does not acknowledge much publicly. After all, it is hard to evoke sympathy with the fans/media about disrespect when the disrespecting party is offering a deal that would make Jeter a lifetime quarter-of-a-billion dollar player.
***********
Spot on by Sherman
MTU,
For the most part everything is fine, and it is cold in the Phoenix area, but we found out that my son has a melanoma on his arm, so we won’t be rushing back to the West until we know what is up with him. He is the one with problems. The Dr. who saw him didn’t think there was a problem but the biopsy said different. I am hoping it was caught early enough.l
I just got through reading the comments from last night, and all I can say is wow. And it’s only November. :bangsheadagainstwall: This is going to be a LONG off-season. LOL
SAS-
I will say a special prayer for you tonite.
thoughts and prayers to you and your son SAS
SAS:
Best wishes to you, your son, and family.
Mac, when Mantle had the surgery on his shoulder in the winter of ’64 after the Cards WS loss, it was apparently botched and he never really recovered. Thhe worst thing was hiring Johnny Keane, who played Mantle in both games of double headers, day games after extra inning night games, all things that Houk and Berra wouldn’t do because they knew how bad the knees were.
When Maris mangled his hand in the catcher’s spikes that ended his power output for good. Skowron had been gone for years and Pepitone took over 1st base, Kubek and Richardson retired (Kubek because of neck injuries), Howard was getting old with no replacement. Ford was still effective but was hiding a circulatory issue in his left arm. They were all still pretty young, younger than Jeter and Rodriguez now, except for Howard.
It was just a series of bizarre injuries that caused them to lose it all at once …Bouton, Downing, Ramos….CBS refused to sign replacements and then the draft started and they had nothing but poor luck with these kids getting hurt. Only the Munson pick in 1968 did things start improving. Mostly it was the Topping/Webb and CBS groups that caused the downfall by not investing in the farm.
Sherman is 100 percent correct . .Great article !
SAS-
This is what the West looked like yesterday.
First taste of the chill of Winter.
http://picasaweb.google.com/cy.....3M4OnC2gE#
SAS -
My prayers and thoughts go out for your son and for your family.
Sherman and Cash were 100 % right……
Well, later!
Actually, the Yankees have been fairly lucky with the contract/desire to play meshing nicely – O’Neill, Brosius and Mussina, off the top of my head, in fairly recent years. Not bad. Because Pettitte goes year to year, he’ll be easier, too.
SAS-best of luck to your son.
“Why? Because I am Derek Jeter, pay me.”
Does this really sound anything like Jeter?
Erin-
You tell Erica that if she doesn’t get back here soon her cabana priviledges for next summer are gonna be revoked.
If it gets bad enough I might even have to prevent from going to AC !
Jeter is the one who comes out of this with an image hit IMO.
Even once his contract gets done, whatever it ends up at, he should expect that if he goes into droughts at the plate like this year, he will start to hear BOOS.
Have pitchers and catchers reported yet? I don’t care who signs or doesn’t sign. Give me BASEBALL!!!!!
MTU-I will pass it along!
SAS, best wishes and luck to your son and you and family on the outcome of the treatment. I’m sure that all will come out just fine. All in all, just have a great holiday season.
Prayers to you and your family SAS
Joel Sherman is projecting a bit in that Jeter article.
JCPD-
This sums it up between the parties :
“Yeah we’re playing those mind games forever,
Projecting our images in space and in time,
Yes is the answer and you know that for sure,
Yes is the surrender you got to let it, you got to let it go,
So keep on playing those mind games together, “
JCPD -
Where have you been?
SAS, my prayers for your son and family.
I would give Mariano 2 years faster than I would give Derek 4.
I do agree with Sherman and what Cashman said. Jeter does not have much leverage since he is not going to negotiate with any other team.
*************
SAS,
Hope all is well with your son. My prayers go out to your family.
MTU -
You’re getting too deep for me, I’ve looked into space, and all I saw was a blue sky, what am I missing?
Hard drive problems for awhile, then on the road down to Jersey for a few days to see family. My “marching” orders are sending me to Syracuse. I was hoping for Virginia or the Carolinas. 7 weeks in a hotel is going to be interesting to say the least. Hope all is well with you AL
Thank you all so much. I hope and have the feeling this will be a small thing. Until we hear from Drs. who know what they are talking about, it is just nervous time. I do think he will need additional to make sure everything is out of there. We are thinking positive at this moment.
Again my thanks and on to baseball!!!
New Post: One last award to hand out
JCPD -
Did you get my E-mail?
Mariano’s saves totals have steadily decreased, as has his innings. He’s still excellent, but the only thing increasing is his age and risk factors. He can’t be serious about a raise. That’s just good old fashioned negotiating strategy. Ask for more than you expect to get. He’ll be happy with 2 years and $30 million.
Jeter is a little different. You can’t tell me that ARods contract doesn’t factor into this. He too is aging, yet he’s locked up for megabucks and megayears. Jete therefore probably thinks that he should be offered a match in years, with annual terms approximating where he is now. Problem is, he’s dropped of in production, range, and performance. He too is probably posturing, and would take a 4 year deal (which I’ve stated Cashman would probably be ‘happy’ with), at between $15-$18 million annually. I’m thinking $60 million total is where the organization wants to be.
Andy will be Andy, and after his buddies are taken care of, he’ll come back for the last go-around.
Lee’s not coming aboard folks, as IMO the Yankees will not give him the 6 year contract he seeks. Merry Christmas Texas.
Al-
It’s the negotiating parties that need to figure it out.
There’s nothing but Blue sky for us simple people.
JCPD -
And you were hoping to get away from winter and snow. Welcome to the snow belt of the NE, Syracuse in the winter, burrrrr!
JCPD,
Are you in the military. 7 weeks of Syracuse in the winter time is ia tough assignment regardless. I hope you have your winter warmies with youl
The finally realized I’m simple.
JCPD-
Had to do the same thing once. In St. Joe Michigan. I was little luckier than you. It was late Fall not Winter.
The time will pass quicky.
AL, going through e-mails now. Yes, I got it, thanks and great pics.
You – not The
Al-
Simple yet complex.
JCPD -
Send us some pictures of those 20′ snow drifts. After 2 years in NC, I forgot what it looks like, lol.
Speaking of complex, I’m going to go shopping for the Thanksgiving turkey and trimmings. If it don’t work out on Thursday, Mickey D’s serve turkey?
AL, I will, but those won’t be drifts, they will actually be 20″ of snow!!!
Al-
I got a better idea. Just show up at my house.
MTU November 23rd, 2010 at 9:12 am
Al-
I got a better idea. Just show up at my house.
————————————————————–
Sure, where’s my invite
JCPD -
I know, just didn’t want to get you upset. Don’t forget to bring a very tall stick, painted orange, so they can find your motel door.
JCPD -
It’s in the mail, without a stamp.
JCPD-
Did I have to give you more than the ones I have already ?
You and Dakota have an open door policy Amigo.
Al, I’ve spent 5 winters over the years in Syracuse, I’m aware of what may come. But it will NEVER be colder than the 6 winters I spent in Fargo, ND
The more, the merrier MTU. Dakota today will get to see the ocean for the first time. Nothing like the Jersey Shore
MTU -
Sitting here looking at a picture of The Wave, love it. Turkey on the open fire, out on the range. All I need is some cattle to drive to auction, and I’m all set.
Al-
I hope one day to have the priviledge of showing you the real thing !
No photo can do it justice.
Fargo, ND, ouch, that’s cold.
But, if you think that’s cold, you should have seen the look my future mother-in-law gave me 47 years ago, I’m still cold.
Al-
See. You are crazy. Welcome to the club.
Good one AL
MTU -
I’m going to look into renting a motor home next year and take some long rides west, if things are going well. At least you’ll have fair warning if you see me coming.
OK, got to go shopping, before all the good birds have flown the coop. Talk later, be well.
Al-
Yee ha ! Room for JCPD and Dakota too ! Double Yee Ha !
You can park in the driveway. I’ll leave the light on for ya’ !
MTU -
Real quick, take a look at your E-mails.
There’s always room for friends.
Regarding Mo: he is the ONLY Yankee who played anywhere up to par during the post-season.
Give him what he wants.
Just do it. Mo is still the best around, and $9M is below market value for the best closer in baseball.