Big talk and big numbers
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 26, 2010 
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Nothing has changed for Derek Jeter and the Yankees. Jeter is still a free agent, the Yankees are still without a proven alternative at shortstop, and the Jeter story continues to dominate the headlines.
Today, the big number is $150 million. That’s what Bill Madden says Jeter was looking for at the beginning of this mess. That’s a six-year deal worth $25 million per season.
It’s a number that’s hard to defend — and I would never suggest the Yankees should sign him to such a deal — but it’s also a number that’s hard to put into context.
It could have been a negotiation stance, a number meant to send a message without being seriously considered. Maybe it was a publicity ploy, a number made public to try to sway opinion. Maybe that number was never even introduced in the actual negotiations. Maybe it’s what Jeter believes he’s worth at this stage of his career.
We’re dealing with such huge amounts of money that the players always seem like bad guys in these situations. Truth is, this is their world. This kind of money flows through baseball, and it has to go somewhere. Hank Steinbrenner is right, the Yankees already made Jeter very, very rich, but Jeter lived up to his previous contract. He did all the Yankees could have asked on the field and off. Name another player who had a 10-year deal that never became a significant drain on the team.
During that time, Jeter watched the Yankees hand out bad contract after bad contract. Brian Cashman has understandably tried to end that free-spending approach — it was unsustainable at best, irresponsible at worst — but it must strike Jeter as odd that when it’s his turn to be paid again, the well is suddenly running dry. He knows what kind of money is out there, and it’s hard to blame the guy for wanting a significant chunk of it. What he’s worth depends on who you compare him to, and what you expect from him.
This negotiation is about ego, age, statistics, legacy, publicity, competition, history, money. It’s about the future of a baseball team and the future of a iconic player.
It’s never going to be as simple as comparing a set of numbers on a piece of paper.
Associated Press photo
Wow Chad !
Great post.
Time to call in King Solomon.
Chad -
Wow. Yes. It’s all of that.
That’s why it’s so compelling, and that’s why it’s so hard for me personally to go round and round with it, but ultimately, just wanting it to work out – somehow.
GB7- MTU informed me that a dear friend of yours is very ill. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Trader-
Thanks very much. They are out of danger now and well on the road to recovery.
We were blessed with good fortune.
Chad,
Your post is what I have wanted to say many times, but the words just came out wrong. Thanks for making this subject matter so cogent.
This is how King Solomon dealt with two mothers claiming the baby was theirs.
Maybe Solomon would rule that A-Rod give back some of his monies due in his contract to aid his “good friend” Jeter.
As the story goes:
Two prostitutes who lived in the same house and who both had an infant son came to Solomon for a judgment. One of the women claimed that the other, after accidentally smothering her own son while sleeping, had exchanged the two children to make it appear that the living child was hers. The other woman denied this and so both women claimed to be the mother of the living son and said that the dead boy belonged to the other.
After some deliberation, king Solomon called for a sword to be brought before him. He declared that there is only one fair solution: the live son must be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. Upon hearing this terrible verdict, the boy’s true mother cried out, “Please, My Lord, give her the live child—do not kill him!” However, the liar, in her bitter jealousy, exclaimed, “It shall be neither mine nor yours—divide it!” Solomon instantly gave the live baby to the real mother, realizing that the true mother’s instincts were to protect her child, while the liar revealed that she did not truly love the child.
Chad-
You’re a great writer but you really dug deep for this one.
Not sure I can praise it enough.
Trader-
Solomon would never advise gold over love.
Right on Chad Jennings!
“….it must strike Jeter as odd that when it’s his turn to be paid again, the well is suddenly running dry. He knows what kind of money is out there, and it’s hard to blame the guy for wanting a significant chunk of it….”.
” And he will likely be a better 36 year old than Jeter.”
“likely”? LIKELY!!!!!!! ?
the yankees don’t have enough money for derek jeter , but they’re going to sign a”likely” for 160 million for 6-7 years.
interesting.
15 million a year, and still being the highest paid SS in the game, despite being on the downside of your career, is not exactly the “well running dry”.
Sometimes, a little perspective goes a long way.
Good post Chad. Summed up nicely.
WC, we’ll have to disagree yet again on Alex and Jeter’s relationship……but that’s really neither here nor there.
Great stuff to hear, Simon. Get him on the weight and tread mills early. Power, speed and agility. The other benefit, besides helping the Yanks is that you can retire early and be his agent and get your 5%. He can support you in the life that you want to be accustomed to.
One thing, Simon. Don’t allow Mrs Templar talk you into letting Little Simon take ballet classes to improve agility. You can’t play shortstop or slide in a tu-tu.
If Derek wants Alex $$$$, tell him to start hitting 30/100 every year and then there will be something to talk about.
Chad-
I know I’m goin’ over the top here but this post is some Pulitzer prize winnin’ sh*t.
You should eat Chicken more often !
Lordy, Lordy what was in that bird.
GB,
I am very sorry for illness to your friend. We all must be grateful for our time and for the chance to share it with loved ones. Easy to say, hard to do sometimes.
” And he will likely be a better 36 year old than Jeter.”
“likely”? LIKELY!!!!!!! ?
the yankees don’t have enough money for derek jeter , but they’re going to sign a”likely” for 160 million for 6-7 years.
interesting.
–
Lee will CERTAINLY be better than Jeter for every season up to the 36th.
GB-
That’s why Papelboner isn’t a ss I guess.
Pitching wins championships, not 37 year old short stops.
SJ, I agree and Chad, I’m sorry I have to disagree. 3 for 45 is not fair? It’s not generous?
Jeter is only looking at this from his point of view, which is fine, but the Yankees have a team to run and just because they made bad decisions before does not mean they have to continue to do so. He’s 37, not 33…………and he’s coming off a down year.
Jeter may be sharp – in fact, I know he is – but demanding 5 or 6 years for somewhere in the ballpark of $150 million is unreasonable; I understand asking for more than you expect to get, but those #s are not designed for a pleasant negotiation. Those #s are designed to start things off on a nasty foot – and they are designed to try and get the Yankees to pay through the nose because he’s Jeter and for what he’s done.
Damn it Chad.
Take a bow.
Woo Hoo !
Who says they don’t have enough money for Derek Jeter.
Randy, he’s no longer a 20+ million dollar player.
Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp.
No 36 year old SS in the history of baseball has signed a contract longer than 3 years. IIRC, the longest term contract for a SS 36 or older has been 2 years.
So, one could argue the offer currently on the table from the Yankees is the greatest contract offer ever given to a SS 36 or older.
There is no reason for the Yankees to bid against themselves.
Until Derek has other, real offers, his leverage is non-existent.
I think we’re underestimating Jeter’s intellect when we say that he doesn’t understand why the well has “run dry” now that it’s time for him to get a new contract.
Jeter understands perfectly well that after the Posada contract the Yankees don’t want to get burned again simply because of the player’s status as a Yankee great.
As for the notion that the Yankees should pay him for what he’s meant to the organization; they have – to thetune of some 200 mil.
The 3 year 45mil offer is a tremendous overpay based on his age and production and no other team will come close to matching it. And if some team like the Orioles offered him more and he took it then how we would look at the man who always said that the only thing that matters is winning.
Jeter is not just any 37 year old SS and I still think he has a lot of good baseball in him………..I’m just not willing to absolutely guarantee it with a 4th year. If I’m wrong and he is in serious decline then we’ll be having a hard enough time dealing with a 3 year contract.
Cashman’s job is to put a winning team on the field based on the money alloted him by the owners. Paying Jeter what he wants will not achieve that goal.
There’s no rush to sign Jeter. Fix the pitching first so this team can repeat getting into playoff position. Yankees spending some 215M + luxury tax is not exactly the “well running dry.”
The first 1 year contract that I remember being offered…and backfired was in 1975….by Cleveland, was for Wayne Garland. It wrecked Cleveland for a few years…back when they were using real money.
sj44-
you know contractual rules better than anyone on the blog.
since this should be his last contract ,why can’t jeter and the yankees do a contract that goes several years past when jeter is likely to be playing ?
that way the yankees get past the all these pig through the python high end contracts peaking in the next few years. it would lower the amount the yankees would be paying jeter in next few years , but jeter would still get closer to the total he wanted.
Thanks for the kind thoughts and words, Mac. I appreciate the kindness.
Bumping the the AAV to $20m will not kill the Yankees. Consider the extra $5m an icon tax and be done with it.
Betsy – disagree on what? They are not that close, they are teammates but that’s where it ends, there is residue there.
Sorry, Garland’s FA contract was 10 years for a little over $2 mil…not a 1 year.
WC, I said we’ll have to disagree on that…………..
“Pitching wins championships, not 37 year old short stops.”
lee is a “likely” in your own words.
why not go no more than four years with lee?
i can see lee getting hammered with the yankees.
he’s kind of arrogant and i’m not sure he’s going to take well to being slammed by yankee fans when he goes into a funk like he did at texas this past summer.
the yankees already have their number one in sabathia. i don’t see the long term logic for lee.
“Pitching wins championships, not 37 year old short stops.”
lee is a “likely” in your own words.
why not go no more than four years with lee?
i can see lee getting hammered with the yankees.
he’s kind of arrogant and i’m not sure he’s going to take well to being slammed by yankee fans when he goes into a funk like he did at texas this past summer.
the yankees already have their number one in sabathia. i don’t see the long term logic for lee.
Randy, it’s not really about the money. It is, and it isn’t. Jeter doesn’t ‘need’ the money. He’s got tons of it from his prior contract and his endorsements. It’s about ‘comparable money’ or ‘being paid for intangibles’. The first refers to ARod, IMHO, the second refers to his value to the team – off the field: marketing, branding, image, good-guy, serial hottie dater, etc.
I don’t think he wants or can get a contract that can pay him for time after retirement. I’m not sure, but I don’t think the Players Association would allow that. He feels that he’s worth every penny he’s been receiving, and should therefore continue to receive.
In fact, he probably feels that last year was just an anomaly. You know, like last season was for Lee, who’s going to get paid as if he didn’t have virtually a .500 season. Or AJ, who got overpaid even though everyone knew he had excellent stuff, but was erratic.
And you know this how WC?
You are about four years late.
That hatchet has been buried long ago.
They are frequent lunch and dinner companions on the road in recent years.
Randy,
Personal services deals can always be negotiated outside the parameters of the player contract.
In fact, for luxury tax purposes, it’s a more preferred way to go.
Three years and $45 million is an insulting offer. This is not about a baseball contract for just another shortstop based on on-the-field performance, it is a contract for the most famous and beloved superstar of this era, playing the greatest sports franchise in history.
The team is worth $1.6 billion dollars and all of a sudden they are going to nickel and dime Derek Jeter? After giving A-rod a new deal between $26 and $30 million a year through 2017? Really?
Randy-
Unlike some.
I’m glad you’re around and posting more frequently again.
You add a certain “something” to the blog.
Oh, no!!! Come on, Cashman…get busy on Lee before the rest of the big time pitchers are taken. The LA Doggies just signed Jon Garland again.
“I don’t think he wants or can get a contract that can pay him for time after retirement. I’m not sure, but I don’t think the Players Association would allow that”
they can’t prove it’s not for real. look what happened with albert belle. he got paid forever and he wasn’t playing.
Betsy you say nothing and offer no substantiation.
I hate to shift this to the Sawx but any thoughts on the Red Sox being the favorites to land Jayson Werth?
I can’t see how that wouldn’t be a good sign for the Sawx, but curious what others think.
(disclaimer – yes the Yankees are the best and unbeatable… but would signing Werth for a fairly big contract be a good move for them?)
Whether Derek and Alex are close is irrelevant. Derek should not be looking to make Alex $$$ – Yankee icon or not.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Randy-
Unlike some.
I’m glad you’re around and posting more frequently again.
You add a certain “something” to the blog.
———————————————————————————————————————-
That Randy is sure slinging the sh…..err….spumoni around today.
GB-
Yes sir ! He’s got Grillitude. That is for sure.
West Coast, $15m is an embarrassing offer? No, paying a 36 year old SS $25m after a bad year would be embarrassing.
“Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski confirmed Friday that Victor Martinez will serve as the club’s primary DH next season.”
————–
VMart’s value plummets as a DH.
Seems like a pretty bad signing to me.
GB-
And how about my Man Chad. Let’s not forget him.
BD – Werth fits in with boston. I wouldn’t be surprised. LF for 1 year, then RF after Drew.
I have another solution to this Jeter mess. Although I think that 3/45 is more than fair, and 4/72 is even better, if Jeter truly wants a ‘raise’ or to maintain his current salary I say offer 2 years 50M. Take it or leave it. More money, less years.
“Personal services deals can always be negotiated outside the parameters of the player contract.
In fact, for luxury tax purposes, it’s a more preferred way to go.”
sj44-
in that case, you’d think the yankees and jeter working be a personal service deal into the contract.
it would also make the deal more complex so it would give each side some wiggle room in not losing face.
WC, lol, but you do? Your comments are fairly empty themselves – you are spitting out old news.
Laura try to understand this from Jeter’s perspective. This is Derek Jeter’s team not A-Rod’s. Like the Miami Heat is Wade’s team not LeBron’s.
Yet the Yankees give A-Rod a new deal paying him $25+ million a year through 2017 when he is going to be 42. He’s a steroid user who lied, he’s a walking soap opera and he is injury prone.
But now they all of a sudden are playing the conservative card with Derek Jeter, who has been the most ethical, clean pro-athlete of our times?
Perspective is key here.
Jeter is basically saying to the Yankees, “You’ve signed a billion bad contracts, but now you won’t give ME one?” When the Yankees gave out those bad contracts, the players were in their prime.
They were basically paying those guys a lot of money to win NOW, with the understanding that we’d likely be stuck with them, paying them a lot of money, when they were no longer performing up to their peak. They knew that if the time came, they’d be able to compensate for the drop in performance by signing someone to fill in.
The difference here is that Jeter is no longer in his prime. He is not going to get a “bad contract”, because what he’s going to offer the Yankees on the field is simply not deserving of it.
The guy is a 36 year old shortstop, who won’t be a shortstop for too much longer. He his worst season last year, which may or may not be a sign of an impending drop off. And yet he is only being asked to take a $3.9 million dollar paycut from a contract he signed 10 years ago, when he WAS in his prime.
If that’s not good enough for him, and he can’t see the logic, then let him walk.
The Mets wanted to get rid of Bobby Bonilla’s 5.9M contract so next year thru 2035 he gets an annual contract of close to 1.2M at 8% interest for a total of close to 30M. Pretty bad deal for the Mets.
Not sure the Yankees would have interest in working out some sort of long term deferred deal with Jeter.
I think randy’s idea is a good one.
keep the avg annual salary down but add extra years with the expectation that Jeter will step down after 3-4 years but stay with the team in another capacity.
a “personal services” deal as SJ44 says.
Let’s face it.
The Yankees, the fans, and likely Derek Jeter want him to be a part of this team in some form for years to come.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
GB-
And how about my Man Chad. Let’s not forget him.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Yeah, for a Missouri muleskinner, he ain’t bad at this writin’ stuff.
Betsy. I am just saying that A-Rod and Jeter are not great friends they are teammates who get along in that context. Their relationship is a lot better than it used to be, but it’s not like Posada and Jeter. They are competitive. And, my point is that A-Rod’s deal has to be relevant to Jeter.
“BD – Werth fits in with boston. I wouldn’t be surprised. LF for 1 year, then RF after Drew.”
————-
I agree. I’d been pegging him for Boston since last offseason.
I think they sign him for 4/$64M
GB-
Outstanding is what it is. Effin’ Oustanding.
“Unlike some.
I’m glad you’re around and posting more frequently again.”
mtu-
yeah , but you also like to get up at the crack of dawn and go walk around the desert with just enough water not to die .
Randy-
You know what. Some people just can’t take a freakin’ compliment.
WCYF-
When Arod got that contract, he was coming off an MVP season. There was not as yet a steroid allegation and there was still a very real chance he would break the HR record. Not even remotely comparable to Jeter’s current situation.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
GB-
Outstanding is what it is. Effin’ Oustanding.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Better for us that he can write, but can’t read very well. If he could both of us might have been bounced a few months ago.
“The team is worth $1.6 billion dollars and all of a sudden they are going to nickel and dime Derek Jeter? After giving A-rod a new deal between $26 and $30 million a year through 2017? Really”
If they could take Arod’s contract back, they’d do it in a heartbeat. It was a bad deal. The idea that the Yankees should make a similarly bad deal for Jeter because they did it for Rodriguez seems a bit absurd.
I see it from Derek’s perspective, West Coast. The issue is that his perspective doesn’t take into account the extenuating circumstances. Like the fact that at some point, DJ won’t be able to play SS and the Yankees have no where to put him. Like the fact that the Yankees can pretty much pencil in 30/100 next to Alex’s name whereas they have no idea what they are going to get from Jeter going forward.
Jeter is a victim of bad luck. The old mindset is gone. His contract is expiring at the wrong time.
BD (Boston Dave) November 26th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
I think randy’s idea is a good one. keep the avg annual salary down but add extra years with the expectation that Jeter will step down after 3-4 years but stay with the team in another capacity. a “personal services” deal as SJ44 says. Let’s face it. The Yankees, the fans, and likely Derek Jeter want him to be a part of this team in some form for years to come.
***************
For whatever reason the inimitable Randy Levine said this:
“He’s a baseball player. It’s a player negotiation. Everything he is and who he is gets factored in. But this isn’t a licensing deal or a commercial rights deal. He’s a baseball player”.
yanks61 November 26th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
GreenBeret7 November 26th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
I always saw Old Hoss as being the league average hitter with speed and a good glove. He gets a bum rap having the tag of “Horace Clarke Era” thrown at him. League average during much of thar time was in the .240s-.250s. his first two career homers were grand slams
———————————–
OK, still hanging around while I finish reading the last posts. GB, Horace, if I remember correctly, also broke up at least 2 no-hitters in the bottom of the ninth. You’re right, of course, he was not a bad player at the time.
yanks61 November 26th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
austinmac November 26th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Horace Clarke was probably the best Yankee for a few years. He was certainly one of the best all around 2B of his day
————————————
Yeah, I agree, he really was a decent player during those years. Murcer didn’t have his first big year until 71. My favorite player of that era, though, was Roy White.
Also, Alex was already making in excess of 25 million a year on his prior contract.
“Their relationship is a lot better than it used to be, but it’s not like Posada and Jeter.”
——————–
arent Jorge and Derek practically best friends? David Ortiz was close to Julian Tavarez too.
I’m not sure this discussion is at all relevant.
WC, they may not be best friends like Jeter and Posada but it doesn’t mean they aren’t close.
This is all just a matter of opinion as to whether Alex’s contract is playing any role in these current affairs.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Randy-
You know what. Some people just can’t take a freakin’ compliment.
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Yeah, but he’s really ooooollddd and crotchety. He thinks calling him a gentleman is an insult. He’s never been complimented before.
WCYF,
I know Levine said that, for whatever reason, probably to maintain any leverage they have. But we all know Derek is more than that.
I do think randy l’s idea is a good one though, even if the front office doesnt.
GB-
Perhaps, but you can tell a lot about a Man by the quality of his mercy.
Still. This post is My-T-Fine in my book.
You know, Robbie will be making 10M this season, and with team options for 2012 and 2013 will make 14M and 15M respectively. He’s about to be a very expenisve 2B, but look for an extension to his contract next offseason which will probably lock him up until 35.
Laura – I Bleed Blue November 26th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
I see it from Derek’s perspective, West Coast. The issue is that his perspective doesn’t take into account the extenuating circumstances. Like the fact that at some point, DJ won’t be able to play SS and the Yankees have no where to put him. Like the fact that the Yankees can pretty much pencil in 30/100 next to Alex’s name whereas they have no idea what they are going to get from Jeter going forward. Jeter is a victim of bad luck. The old mindset is gone. His contract is expiring at the wrong time.
*************
Well articulated. But do you really think you can pencil in A-Rod for 30/100?
- He just barely hit 30 in 2010.
- And his OPS was the lowest since he was 21 years old.
- And his SLG was the lowest since he was 21 years old.
- And his BA was the lowest since he was 19 years old.
- And his 30 home runs in 2009 and 2010 was his lowest total since he was 21 years old.
While I’m sure Cashman can multitask with the best of them, it would be reassuring to see some additional moves to shore up the rotation and bullpen – just in case…
De La Rosa for the rotation
Fuentes for the bullpen
GB-
Thanks for clarifying that. I was really perplexed before you explained it to me.
So, If I understand you correctly, if I really want to make Randy feel “good” I should treat him “bad”.
Is that about the essence of it ?
Another point about the Alex contract: the Yankees were only on the hook for $13 million per year while the Texas contract was still in effect. Clearly they felt comfortable in overpaying slightly on his contract because they had already had him at a bargain price for four years.
Close saying that the reports that they are looking for $150M over 6 years are “simply inaccurate”. Kinda half makes sense that the source of that number was the Yankees.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
GB-
Perhaps, but you can tell a lot about a Man by the quality of his mercy.
Still. This post is My-T-Fine in my book.
———————————————————————————————————————-
He does get into the Jeter stuff a little deeper than the usual “Jeter is God, give him everything” and “Jeter is a dogmeat shortstop and plays like a corpse” that we usually read on here.[
Saint-
IMO Fuentes sucks. No thanks. Seen him crap the bed too many times.
GB-
It is a blow against being too simple-minded that is foh sure !
why not go no more than four years with lee?
i can see lee getting hammered with the yankees.
he’s kind of arrogant and i’m not sure he’s going to take well to being slammed by yankee fans when he goes into a funk like he did at texas this past summer.
the yankees already have their number one in sabathia. i don’t see the long term logic for lee.
–
Likely is more than not likely. Lee to me is a guy like Pettitte, but with better stuff. He throws 94 right now from the left side with insane command. I see that skill set aging well. I look at him to pitch 2-3 ERA’s for the first 4 years of the deal. And 3-4 ERA’s for the last 2.
Lee + CC + Pettitte next season gives the yankees such a huge advantage at YS, neutralizing lefties.
For super premium pitching talent that looks like it will age well, I would even overpay.
I think he gets 6 years for the same AAV as CC.
BD (Boston Dave) November 26th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
WCYF, I know Levine said that, for whatever reason, probably to maintain any leverage they have. But we all know Derek is more than that.
I do think randy l’s idea is a good one though, even if the front office doesnt.
************
It’s a superb idea and a creative way to structure a win-win deal so ego’s don’t get damaged by one party capitulating.
- He just barely hit 30 in 2010.
- And his OPS was the lowest since he was 21 years old.
- And his SLG was the lowest since he was 21 years old.
- And his BA was the lowest since he was 19 years old.
- And his 30 home runs in 2009 and 2010 was his lowest total since he was 21 years old.
–
A-rod has hit 30+ HRs the past 3 years without even hitting the 140 game mark in any of those seasons. As long as they keep A-rod on the field he will hit 30 HRs
6 years/ 150 mil?
Isn’t that the exact contract that Close got for Ryan Howard?
Maybe that’s where it comes from.
MTU, I’ve seen them all stink it up every so often. But he’s a lefty, and has been a closer. Has a good K/BB rate, but a poor BB/9 rate. Less H/9 than most. Besides, he’s a fallback solution, and more like the setup man. Who would you rather have, Kerry Wood, who was great for 1/2 a season, but has never played for an entire season in forever?
AJ burnett is the type of pitcher you ‘don’t go any more than 4 years on’. And we saw what the Yankees did on that.
Jerkface-
My only concern about Lee is his health long term.
Other than that I’m ALL IN.
Can’t wait to read this board next winter when Hughes come up for arbitration/contract. That’ll be a real hoot.
And this is not a slam at anybody in particular. Enough have disputed his value on both sides to Phil a book.
“So, If I understand you correctly, if I really want to make Randy feel “good” I should treat him “bad”.”
actually , if you took gb7 on one of your hikes, i might be feeling pretty good.
especially if you took some of those amazing photos and you got gb7 and his walker in the foreground.
Lee has to be offered a 5 year deal. Problem is, he most likely wants 6. I’d give him 5/100 or 6/120 max. But I’m not matching CC’s AAV.
Saint-
If we’re talkin’ lefties I’d rather have Feliciano as a lefty specialist.
Cheaper, and IMO better. Saw Fuentes a LOT as i get the Rockies feed. No likie him.
That be my 2 cents.
Randy-
Would the Grand Canyon be acceptable to you ?
MTU, completely understand. I’m just afraid that Feliciano’s arm will fall off come August. He seems to pitch more games than Nick Johnson’s been out.
saint-
he gets divided by 2 because of Logan.
Mell -
How do you jump to the conclusion that it was the Yankees that leaked the 6/150 or whatever the heck it was?
It did not have to be them. It may not necessarily be a “leak” but someone’s speculation that got reported as fact. Seriously.
It is ridiculous. There is nothing else as compelling to report at this time and if there’s no news, there’s still got to be a story.
What does it benefit the Yankees if they leak a number that they KNOW Close is going to deny???
I see the caretakers at The Home has awakened Randy from his nap…just in time for his pureed oatmeal (pureed so it won’t be tough on his gums and tooth).
GB, Cashman will take Phil to arbitration for a year or two, but if he continues to improve or remain steady, he’ll eventually lock Hughes up for 5 years. It’s too expensive to go the FA route on pitchers, and he knows that first-hand.
GB-
I hurt my ribs the other day in a fall and all this extra laughter is really killing me.
If Hughes takes a step forward next year he will get a contract.
MP:
Please note the qualifiers. “Kinda half makes sense”. I’m just thinking in terms of the PR battle.
As the Yankees seem to be winning it, one could also argue it makes no sense at all.
What makes as much sense as anything is that Madden and/or his source just plain got it wrong.
I agree, Simon that they’ll ride the abritration road for at least one and possibly two years.
Mell -
I’d go with the last sentence – someone just plain got it wrong.
Sorry to jump on you.
I probably should back away from this subject for awhile.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
GB-
I hurt my ribs the other day in a fall and all this extra laughter is really killing me.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Best not look at that fuzzy, 4 legged snake food you have there, then.
Hughes doesnt have the shoulder problems or skill-set issues that Wang had. I don’t think they will avoid a long-term deal.
First off, 3 years, $45M for someone of Derek’s current skill set is more than fair…of course, Derek Jeter is much more than just a ballplayer, but we do have to keep some perspective here: Since when is $15M suddenly a “well running dry”? That really doesn’t make much sense. And past mistakes on the free agent market should have absolutely zero bearing on the Derek Jeter negotiation. If the Yankees sign him for 4 years, $80M and he becomes Craig Biggio…it would just go down as yet another free agent mistake. Why encourage that? I am sure Biggio also thought that he could bounce back from an off year as well – and the fact is that he became even worse. Why some don’t see that as a distinct possibility for Jeter is a bit weird; all of the extra training and watching video and trying to correct flaws is sometimes not enough to counter the age issue. For most players, age trumps all.
Jeter’s last deal made him $18.1/M per season – a lot more per season towards the end, of course. So they should work on a deal that bridges that gap a bit – but you don’t just give him what he wants and use Kei Igawa’s contract as a reason why. Any organization that operates from that perspective is destined for failure. The Yankees can definitely absorb grossly overpaying Derek Jeter – and I think they are showing that by offering an aging shortstop $15M a season.
As for Cliff Lee, he is right now one of the top pitchers in baseball – plus there is competition for his services. That is why he’ll get up to $25M or so per season. Competition for your services is nice – having the Yankees involved in that competition is even nicer. Lee has the competition; Jeter does not. Lee is not showing signs of slowing down; Jeter is. It really is that simple.
This in no way is a Derek Jeter bashing post; I want him back, and at the end of the day, I have always said that I don’t care who gets paid what. But it does bother me to see those sticking up for Jeter because they feel $15 million is low balling him. I don’t see any real evidence that shows me why that is a low ball offer.
GB-
Thanks for the advice.
I knew I could always count on you.
“Would the Grand Canyon be acceptable to you ? ”
i’m rethinking my idea for you taking gb7 out in the wilderness .
they might declare him an endangered species , and then i’d be in big trouble for giving him a hard time.
MTU -
Oh, no!
I told you NOT to take a leap!
Hope you’re okay.
Randy-
Or a “new” species.
With the jump in salary for Cano, and Tex, plus increases for Hughes over the next couple years, Yankee payroll will stay high for some time. ‘Luckily’ ARods contract has him earning smaller amounts from this season onwards.
I don’t see how Cashman keeps AJ, pays CC, signs Lee, gives a raise to Mo, and keeps Jeter beyond wealthy for more than 3 seasons.
Something’s got to give.
“Hughes doesnt have the shoulder problems or skill-set issues that Wang had. I don’t think they will avoid a long-term deal.”
he also doesn’t have the dumb ass sabermetric yankee dunces cashman hired telling cashman that wang couldn’t be any good with that low strike out rate and they needed to increase it by getting him to change what he was doing.
MP-
Yes you did. I remember. Should have paid better attention.
I hate it when solid rock gives way under you foot. Doesn’t seem fair.
It only hurts when I laugh though.
Saint-
“Something’s got to give.”
How about Hal’s budget ?
What’s this I hear about taking GB out in the wilderness? You remember those reports of the guy who went out hiking on his own? ..and came back missing a hand.
Look in the background of those pictures…on the right…that’s GB. He did it for him, saved his life, and being the shy type, made him promise to take the credit himself.
boston dave-
good to see you back here.
i’m wondering what the red sox front office is up to right now. they’ve really cut loose a whole lot of payroll .
Saint-
The only relationship GB has to that is that Killer likes “Ralston” Purina
dog food.
No, Hal’s budget isn’t going to change much.
But Posada will be gone after 2011 – 13M saved. Replaced on the cheap by Montero/Romine
Andy will be gone after 2011 – 12M saved. Replaced on the cheap by (fill in the blank)
Mo will likely be gone after 2012 – 16M saved. Joba could still be around – and cheap.
The Yankees will have a cheap OF, and an expensive IF, except Catcher.
3 of the 5 starters could be very expensive, a fourth reasonably expensive irrespective of what happens with Andy.
The bullpen, with the exception of Mo, will be very affordable.
OK Saint.
You get together with Hal and figure it out.
Please.
It’s interesting that the infield was about to get more affordable as well, when Swisher was signed. Except that Tex was signed too. The Swisher deal has got to be one of my favorites, and I would love to see Cashman make more of those under-the-radar head scratchers.
Will the heavyweight masher, Brian Cashman, wearing the pinstriped trunks engage in a donnybrook with the Phillies middlewight contender Ruben Amaro Jr., wearing the blood red trucks for the championship contest for Dennys Reyes, the southpaw?
DaSaint007 November 26th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
With the jump in salary for Cano, and Tex, plus increases for Hughes over the next couple years, Yankee payroll will stay high for some time. ‘Luckily’ ARods contract has him earning smaller amounts from this season onwards.
I don’t see how Cashman keeps AJ, pays CC, signs Lee, gives a raise to Mo, and keeps Jeter beyond wealthy for more than 3 seasons.
Something’s got to give.
*******************
I don’t see it as an issue. The Yankees led the major leagues in attendance in 2010 and in 2009 they had $441 million dollars in revenue with an operating income of $25.9 million dollars. They are a very wealthy franchise. When you are worth $1.6 billion and have that kind of balance sheet you can spend pretty much what you want to.
he also doesn’t have the dumb ass sabermetric yankee dunces cashman hired telling cashman that wang couldn’t be any good with that low strike out rate and they needed to increase it by getting him to change what he was doing.
–
Wang is likely to never play baseball again, seems like Cashman made the right move not locking him up.
GB knows I’m only joking.
MTU, I’d love to help Hal out, but I have my own budget issues, and I’m just using QuickBooks!
Anway folks, have to head home to take my turn in the rotation feeding the little one. Will check back later.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
GB-
Thanks for the advice.
I knew I could always count on you.
———————————————————————————————————————-
that’s what I’m here for…to aid and abet….err…advise.
WCY, I’d like to see where your numbers came from, but just one point: With a revenue of 441M according to you, and an ‘operating income’ of less than 30M, that’s really not a very good profit margin.
On that note, I’m out. Really.
Non-issue with Simon. he’s as sick as we are, MTU.
TBrownYahoo
Six years, $150 million for Jeter? Agent Casey Close: “The recently rumored terms of our contract extension are simply inaccurate.”
“Wang is likely to never play baseball again, seems like Cashman made the right move not locking him up.”
yeah, that had nothing to do with cashman telling wang to do nothing all winter healing from a Lisfranc fracture , and then without testing him to see if any part of his body was weak, sent him out there in spring with an atrophied him that was at half strength.
no, that always does wonders for a pitcher’s arm.
So, what’s the word on this Tsuyoshi Nishioka? How good really is this guy? Who gets booted out of the Twins outfield? Kubel? Span? Young?
“Name another player who had a 10-year deal that never became a significant drain on the team.”
Has anyone not named Alex Rodriguez or Joe Mauer been given a 10 year contract that I’m not thinking of?
“atrophied hip”
though his “him” was probably weak too.
Here you go:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/20.....34613.html
GB, just say no to Reyes. He’s K/BB rates are equal. I’ll have an ulcer.
yeah, that had nothing to do with cashman telling wang to do nothing all winter healing from a Lisfranc fracture , and then without testing him to see if any part of his body was weak, sent him out there in spring with an atrophied him that was at half strength.
–
Cashman was right to be cautious with Wang’s injury history, and his suspicions were proved correct. Locking Wang up for ‘Ace money’ would have been a disaster.
GB7 -
Sorry to read about the sad times you’re experiencing now. As always, you’re in my prayers.
D
*****
Don’t get Randy l started on Wang/Cashman. I warn you all.
Twins need to stop wasting money on these slap hitters and go out and get some aces for their rotation
Randy can go on about his revisionist history all he wants, but Wang was injury prone and no pitcher in the last 20 years has been an ace with the kind of K rate and GB% wang was throwing. And the Yankees have been rewarded with their caution because they don’t have a dead weight contract ala Pavano right now.
WCYF
Just because they were wrong and made mistakes in the past doesn’t mean they have to repeat them.
Jeter getting a fair deal is what this is all about. Not Jeter at any cost, his cost.
It was evident with Damon and Matsui, this is Hal’s team now.
It would appear I was too late with the warning…
GB-
Saint goes back a ways here. Good people.
He’s a Ragin’ Cajun like KPB.
He’s toned down some though due to recent “circumstances”.
“Wang was injury prone and no pitcher in the last 20 years has been an ace with the kind of K rate and GB% wang was throwing.”
————-
I think Wang would have been successful if not for the injuries. An “ace”? Who knows… but certainly deserving of a rotation spot on the Yanks, IMO.
But he got injured, so it’s a moot point.
“Locking Wang up for ‘Ace money’ would have been a disaster.”
you mean like burnett.
that was a good move.
good thing too they trusted instructing wang’s sinker to someone who didn’t understand what made it sink, and who wasn’t even going to be around in two years.
love those shrewd moves cashman made with wang.
Thanks WCY: A profit is a profit, but it’s not much on the revenue spent. YES is a different cash cow, of which they reportedly only own 1/3. I wonder who owns the balance?
NYY has some pretty steep operating costs that will eat up a lot of that income. Not the least of them would be around $210 mil in ML salaries. Add utilities, building payments, the salaries of employees, the payrolls for coaches at all levels and the payrolls of 7 minor league teams that run possibly close to $45-$50 mil.
>love those shrewd moves cashman made with wang.
Heh. Dirty.
“It was evident with Damon and Matsui, this is Hal’s team now.”
—————-
though I’m sure you’re not arguing that the Damon and Matsui situations are remotely close to that of Jeter.
Whether they say it to the media or not, it’s not just an on-field baseball decision.
Does that mean he deserves the sun and the moon? No. But this is a very unique circumstance.
“And the Yankees have been rewarded with their caution because they don’t have a dead weight contract ala Pavano right now.”
jerkface-
pavano only stinks with the yankees.
why is that?
Gee, thanks MTU. Yes, off to my circumstances!
Somehow, that doesn’t sound quite right…
For the record, re: Wang – Given the nature of the Lisfranc, I don’t have a problem with the conservative approach that was taken over the winter as far as the healing process. I do agree with Randy that they then were not conservative enough putting him back on the mound. I believe that did contribute to the shoulder injury that has now effectively ended his career.
Now, the shoulder injury may have been lying in wait anyway, but it’s certainly conceivable that the events leading up to it may have hastened it.
But as far as having signed him to a long-term contract with a history of shoulder injury, I don’t necessarily think the Yankees took the wrong approach. But because I personally liked Wang, I was personally disappointed that they took such a hard line with him in arbitration when they weren’t all that far apart.
Thank you for your kind thoughts and words, Dorren. Your kindness is very much appreciated.
Fourth outfielder
I’m all for giving the young guys a chance, and in limited duty, Kevin Russo, Colin Curtis and Greg Golson gave the Yankees a boost this season. But I can’t imagine the Yankees going into spring training without at least one established option as a fourth outfielder behind Brett Gardner, Curtis Granderson and Nick Swisher.
_________________________________________________________________________
Please tell me someone that this isn’t going to be our starting OF next year!
“Add the $45 million to the $200 million they’ve already paid him and, at nearly $250 million, Jeter will have been paid more than any other player in the history of baseball except A-Rod and (when he gets his next deal) Albert Pujols”.
“Better they should have just told the world how greedy and unreasonable Jeter and his agent, Casey Close, are being in this negotiation. To do that, however, apparently would have been to betray an agreement the two sides made going in – which was not to negotiate in the media or reveal each other’s positions. The reason the Yankees’ offer is out there is because whenever a club makes an offer to a free agent it becomes common knowledge in the central offices of baseball and throughout the industry. On the other hand, the players’ and agents’ asking prices never get revealed unless they themselves let them be known”.
“Sources close to the Jeter/Close camp have said their starting point was six years, $150 million and that they aren’t budging on $25 million per year”.
“But if it’s any consolation for Jeter, no matter what he ends up getting, he’s a slam-dunk first-ballot Hall of Famer, while A-Rod, for all his extra millions, may never get in”.
Saint-
You know me. I’m crazy. I was just funnin’ ya.
GB has even volunteered to help you out with
changin’ diapers. He just loves that !
thank you doreen
i rest my case
pavano only stinks with the yankees.
why is that?
–
He only has 3 out of 12 seasons with an ERA under 4. He’s stunk enough all over the place.
WCYF:
That same Forbes report also indicates an 89% debt to value ratio for the Yankees.
Generally I’m in favor of giving Dereck the big buck, but $25M No way. This has to be a leak with little truth behind it.
Seems to me Pavano never really had his heart in being on the Yankees. Even though he took less money to pitch in NY.
But there was a lot of really bad luck involved. And it’s never ever a good thing to injure your buttocks. Ever.
It just leaves to door open to so much derision.
“Derek Jeter’s agent, Casey Close, responded to ESPN NY via email tonight to a report Friday that Jeter is demanding a six-year, $150 million contract from the Yankees as follows: “The recently reported terms of our contract proposal are simply inaccurate.” Close declined to specify what Jeter’s real contract demands are, citing an agreement between he and the Yankees that precludes either side from negotiatingf in the media, an agreement he says the Yankees have repeatedly violated. In a phone conversation Wednesday night, Close said no further meetings with the team were scheduled and he did not expect much, if any communication between the two sides through the weekend.”
Does saying the Yankees have “repeatedly violated” an agreement constitute negotiating through the media? Baffling.
Here’s an idea. How about the pots stop calling each other kettles and pick up the phone and talk to each other rather than sending smoke signals through other people.
I’d rather talk about Cliff Lee. Jeter is so 2009.
Wasn’t the difference with Wang about $600,000, Doreen?
MTU, my little guy has demonstrated enough explosive potential without GBs coaching or assistance, thank you very much.
Otherwise I’ll have to double up on those kevlar-plated diapers.
But as far as having signed him to a long-term contract with a history of shoulder injury, I don’t necessarily think the Yankees took the wrong approach.
–
Seems to back up Cashman, Randy. Sorry
Wang only ever pitched 200 innings once. He just wasn’t the durable kind of innings eater the Yankees needed. They were content to play it out through arbitration and see where they were when he was a free agent. And surprise, the yankees were right all along.
Mell November 26th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
WCYF: That same Forbes report also indicates an 89% debt to value ratio for the Yankees.
***************
That’s correct, due to the new stadium.
Off topic, but you get the feeling that the Jets and the Giants right now are going in opposite directions. People are going to go nuts if they lose again this weekend at home to the Jags.
“Here’s an idea. How about the pots stop calling each other kettles and pick up the phone and talk to each other rather than sending smoke signals through other people.”
I think it’s pretty obvious that they are, but also that they are very far apart.
“Wang is likely to never play baseball again, seems like Cashman made the right move not locking him up.”
According to this article the Nationals would like to resign Wang and he’s been pitching in their instructional league as well. They also believe that the foot injury may have indirectly led to his shoulder injury as well.
http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews.....;Type=aSPT
Speaking of kevlar, I’m going to need it if I’m any later. I’m out. Later all.
You’re welcome, Randy.
Hal will overpay for pitching but is drawing the line on everyone else.
His goal is to reduce payroll and win.
Jeter falls into this category, even though they believe they are overpaying him.
Some day he will win the WS at a lower payroll than he has now and will tell his Dad,”see I told you it can be done.”
Then what would Yankee haters have to say?
pat, no talk over the weekend, may be best, especially if that includes no talks to the media. Let both teams cool off.
“Off topic, but you get the feeling that the Jets and the Giants right now are going in opposite directions. ”
Multiple injuries that are concentrated at one or two positions tend to do that.
And for all the criticism Burnett gets and deserves, he won a World Series with the Yankees, which is something that, sadly, Wang could never will the yankees to do. Maybe if he had pitched a WS GM2 type performance in all those ALDS’ the yankees got knocked out of, he would have gotten his deal.
Goodbye Derk Jeter .
Go back to your Tigers .
Go back to your miserable state .
Saint-
Save some dough.
See if GB will lend you one of his old helmets ?
According to this article the Nationals would like to resign Wang and he’s been pitching in their instructional league as well. They also believe that the foot injury may have indirectly led to his shoulder injury as well.
–
The article says nothing of the sort.
The 6-year, $150 million deal is NOT what Jeter asked for.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5852653
“”The recently rumored terms of our contract proposal are simply inaccurate,” agent Casey Close said in an e-mail to ESPN.com.”
So much anger…
The 6-year, $150 million deal is NOT what Jeter asked for.
======================================
Then let’s talk turkey.
Burnett is the perfect example of giving non-ace type pitchers large deals. It doesn’t help Wang’s cause, it hurts it.
“And for all the criticism Burnett gets and deserves, he won a World Series with the Yankees, which is something that, sadly, Wang could never will the yankees to do. Maybe if he had pitched a WS GM2 type performance in all those ALDS’ the yankees got knocked out of, he would have gotten his deal”
What’d Burnett win to get his deal? What did Rodriguez win to get his?
If he returns, fans should boo him all season long, non-stop, every at-bat .
“The article says nothing of the sort.”
The Nationals’ management has said the team was pleased with Wang’s performance and planned to negotiate a new deal with Wang’s agent.
A foot injury in June of that year kept him out of the second half of the 2008 season and may have indirectly led to his shoulder injury in 2009.
Those two sentences are directly from the article.
Wang playing for their instructional team was in another article I was reading.
Such hostility on this blog lately.
WCYF, I sure wish you were my boss and wanted to throw money at somebodies persona and no their true worth. I Know I am not going to get more money from my boss because likes me better than the guy next to me that has more experience. It really sounds like you have a man crush on Jeter, and to say that 3/45 is insulting shows that you really have no clue about business negotiations and value. I bet your check book is a total mess.
Betsy has a lot of insightful opinions here. Too me she has it much more together and can back up her point of view better than you. You keep saying that Jeter dates hotties.. whether your joking or not it shows your maturity.
GB
Close never should have issued the denial. I understand he wanted to for PR reasons BUT if another “leak” surfaces tomorrow and he doesn’t comment on it, it will be interpreted to be a correct number. If he does comment on it, additional “leaks” will continue until someone gets the number right.
It’s like a bad game on the Price is Right.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
Saint-
Save some dough.
See if GB will lend you one of his old helmets ?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Doesn’t work. The new kevlars are not as useful as the old steel pots. no cooking, bathing, shaving (shortstops starting at a much younger age) and of no use for other emergeny bodily functions. Imagine having to put that on your head afterwards?
***(shortstops start shaving at a much younger age)***
This is another article which discusses Wang and the Nationals looking to resign him.
http://www.masnsports.com/the_.....onals.html
This is the guy Jeter hired as his agent? The guy sounds like he has no idea how to play in this poker game. He is making it easy for Hal to look good.
“And for all the criticism Burnett gets and deserves, he won a World Series with the Yankees, which is something that, sadly, Wang could never will the yankees to do.”
wasn’t that the world series that burnett had a 7.00 era?
you don’t like, jeter, mattingly, wang, torre, bernie williams, etc.
the world is spitting out very strange yankee fans nowadays.
This is the guy Jeter hired as his agent? The guy sounds like he has no idea how to play in this poker game. He is making it easy for Hal to look good.
====================================
This aint your father’s New York Yankees.
A foot injury in June of that year kept him out of the second half of the 2008 season and may have indirectly led to his shoulder injury in 2009.
Those two sentences are directly from the article.
Wang playing for their instructional team was in another article I was reading.
–
The line about the foot injury indirectly leading to the shoulder injury is speculation from the Taiwan press, not a quote from the Nationals or about the Nationals.
I heard Derek Jeter also elbowed Brack Obama this morning, too .
pat November 26th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
GB
Close never should have issued the denial. I understand he wanted to for PR reasons BUT if another “leak” surfaces tomorrow and he doesn’t comment on it, it will be interpreted to be a correct number. If he does comment on it, additional “leaks” will continue until someone gets the number right.
It’s like a bad game on the Price is Right.
———————————————————————————————————————-
never should have gotten to this point. Very unYankee-like for the first time that I remember,
GB-
I know you like The Saint as much as I do so I thought you’d want to help him out.
Nothing but the best for little Simon though.
Talent like that just doesn’t grow on Bourbon Street you know.
wasn’t that the world series that burnett had a 7.00 era?
you don’t like, jeter, mattingly, wang, torre, bernie williams, etc.
–
Wang’s career ERA in the postseason in 7.58 and that includes 3 unearned runs. I was and am a big fan of Wang’s and wanted the yankees to sign him to a minor league deal for rehab. I loved Bernie, Tino, O’Neil, Brosius and Knoblauch on the old teams. Jeter and Torre are not my faves as I’ve stated many times.
Mattingly is Mattingly, a great player and a not-so-great coach.
Lost November 26th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Such hostility on this blog lately.
WCYF, I sure wish you were my boss and wanted to throw money at somebodies persona and no their true worth. I Know I am not going to get more money from my boss because likes me better than the guy next to me that has more experience. It really sounds like you have a man crush on Jeter, and to say that 3/45 is insulting shows that you really have no clue about business negotiations and value. I bet your check book is a total mess.
Betsy has a lot of insightful opinions here. Too me she has it much more together and can back up her point of view better than you. You keep saying that Jeter dates hotties.. whether your joking or not it shows your maturity.
******************
I keep saying that Jeter dates hotties? No I haven’t. Kindly post proof as to where I “keep saying that”.
I’m not going to discuss Besty when she’s not here. I respect Betsy’s right to have an opinion, and I have defended her when attacked. We disagree at times, on Phil Hughes, the age issue and Jeter. I’ll leave it at that.
I happen to negotiate contracts for a living and I do quit well thank you for the personal opinion. I have criticized Jeter’s play in the past, I just think Yankee management’s position here is wrong, notably the negotiating in the press and the arrogant language.
Since when did liking a player mean you root for them over the team you follow, to the extent of wanting them to damage the team? Strange yankee fans here that are putting a premium on people rather than winning.
Perhaps you’d like to root for the Pirates? They don’t win but they have a nice collection of personalities.
Jerfkface,
I never said it was a quote from the Nationals. Sorry if what I wrote made it seem that way.
However you said it was likely that Wang would never pitch again, when it’s quite likely he will pitch next year.
There were however numerous articles written that said the foot injury may have indirectly lead to the shoulder injury.
GB
Nah. George was known to spout off in public on a more frequent basis than those around him would like.
More un-Jeterlike. The media is still waiting for him to confirm or deny his name is actually Derek Jeter.
MTU November 26th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
GB-
I know you like The Saint as much as I do so I thought you’d want to help him out.
Nothing but the best for little Simon though.
Talent like that just doesn’t grow on Bourbon Street you know.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Just lock this kid up long term early on. Otherwise we’ll be going through this all over in 20 years and to make it worse, we’ll have to deal with the kid’s old man on here, getting all snarky.
God, you guys got Randy talking that crazy stuff about how Cashman caused Wang’s shoulder injury again. Time for the meds!
However you said it was likely that Wang would never pitch again, when it’s quite likely he will pitch next year.
–
In real baseball games? Maybe not. In more rehab and minor league games looking to try and make it back? Yea probably. All the talk of the foot->shoulder is speculation.
Laura wrote: “Jeter is a victim of bad luck. The old mindset is gone. His contract is expiring at the wrong time.”
Her comment got me thinking about luck. Jeter has earned his success with dedicated, hard work. Stilll, he may be the luckiest human being I know of:
– Came up with the team he rooted for
– At a time when others strong players made them the best team around
– Not traded to some lesser team
– With an owner who overpaid top players
– In a city that was a media center
– Avoided a career-ending injury
– One of the handsomest men around
– Individual and team baseball success and good looks helped him make a fortune doing advertisements
– Dated the hottest women in the country
Now he has had the bad luck of going into free agency off a bad year. Maybe he just doesn’t know how to handle bad luck.
Damage the team? So another $3-5 million a year will damage the team? And I don’t think a 4 year deal for Jeter will damage the team.
GB-
That is the ticket.
Gotta stay ahead of the curve.
Simon knows the kid is sitting on a Goldmine, or “something” like that.
pat November 26th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
GB
Nah. George was known to spout off in public on a more frequent basis than those around him would like.
More un-Jeterlike. The media is still waiting for him to confirm or deny his name is actually Derek Jeter.
———————————————————————————————————————-
George argued with everyone, mainly because I believe that he loved for that Contest/battle. In the end, though, he always overpaid everyone. And always forgave, though it took a long time with Winfield. I think that he just liked keeping people from getting too comfortable, too satisfied.
Whatever Jeter wants, it’s almost certainly signficantly more than $45m over three years, otherwise Close wouldn’t have made the baffling “baffling” comment.
I’ll tell you what damaged the team. Signing Randy Winn, Javy Vazquez, Kei Igawa and Nick Johnson damaged the team. That damage by the way cost us $23 million dollars in 2010.
GB-
GMS might have been like “El Exigente” in the old coffee commercials but he paid like he was in charge of Ft. Knox.
“Damage the team? So another $3-5 million a year will damage the team? And I don’t think a 4 year deal for Jeter will damage the team.”
Actually, it’s unknowable. The issue will turn on whether or not Jeter’s 2010 was an outlier. If it presages what Jeter can produce going forward, even a one year contract at $15m will damage the team in the sense that they will need a new SS and the $15m could have been better spent.
WCYF
You do this for a living. Which supposed offer is more outrageous? The “low-end” Yankee offer or the “to the moon” Jeter offer?
Being that everything here is conjecture, what really goes on in the board room? Do you discuss philosophy or brass tacks or a little of both?
What if both sides have little wiggle room? Is that why they are negotiating through the media?
GB7 -
CMW got $4 million. He asked for $4.6 million. He didn’t seem as upset by it as we outsiders seem to have been.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....yanke.html
But that was the same year the Yankees signed Cano to a nice contract. So, I think it was the comparison between the two, when fans saw the each as bright lights.
I think that in the late 80s George may have been spending some of his own money. I seem to remember reading that he was close to bankruptcy.
I’ll tell you what damaged the team. Signing Randy Winn, Javy Vazquez, Kei Igawa and Nick Johnson damaged the team. That damage by the way cost us $23 million dollars in 2010.
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i love the logic that bad deals in the past mean they should give jeter another one.
American Ship Building went bankrupt, but I don’t believe that George was ever in personal financial trouble.
I have said this a thousand times: This is a REFERENDUM on Jeter. It is purposefully being brought out by Yankee mgmnt. to , for the first time, unearth the “myth” of Derek Jeter. They obviously feel he is past his prime and want to pay him his fair value.
What a way to save a buck!
Thanks, Doreen. I knew the difference was too close for the words that were being tossed around on here. I had forgotten that Cano was in contract negotiations at that time.
MP-
It just my take but I always though that CMW was very under appreciated by some fans.
He just went out and tried to do his job with a minimum of Fanfare.
A real professional. And always humble.
This isn’t a referendum on Jeter. It’s freakin’ business deal. Sheesh.
Rich in NJ November 26th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
“Damage the team? So another $3-5 million a year will damage the team? And I don’t think a 4 year deal for Jeter will damage the team.”
Actually, it’s unknowable. The issue will turn on whether or not Jeter’s 2010 was an outlier. If it presages what Jeter can produce going forward, even a one year contract at $15m will damage the team in the sense that they will need a new SS and the $15m could have been better spent.
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I don’t disagree with that Rich. If Jeter is no longer able to play shortstop or hit on a major league level you would be right. I don’t happen to believe that will be the case. I think his athleticism, pride, dedication, work ethic and desire to prove everyone wrong will stand him in good stead on the field in 2011.
It’s not the Kennedy assassination – we will all know the truth soon! lo
Wang was Matsui-like, but not Matsui.
The Yankees can afford to give Jeter another 5m a year. They can’t however afford to give him longer than three years.
Rich
When have you ever seen this much discussion about Jeter and opinions on him so flagrantly rampant?
He has flown under the radar his entire career but now is the topic of discussion everyday.
Sheesh?
“In real baseball games? Maybe not. In more rehab and minor league games looking to try and make it back? Yea probably. All the talk of the foot->shoulder is speculation.”
Maybe not is much different than likely. Wang has been pitching and the Nationals would like to resign. I would say it’s more likely he will pitch in the ML’s than unlikley.
You’re right about the foot leading to the shoulder injury being speculation. But it’s based on the fact that his hip was weak from all the time off and injuries can lead to changing mechanics.
mick November 26th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
hich supposed offer is more outrageous? The “low-end” Yankee offer or the “to the moon” Jeter offer? Being that everything here is conjecture, what really goes on in the board room? Do you discuss philosophy or brass tacks or a little of both?
What if both sides have little wiggle room? Is that why they are negotiating through the media?
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I think the Yankees overreacted to Close’s “baffling” comment which was very benign in my opinion. I believe both parties should have stuck to their agreement to not negotiate this through the press and leaks. The Yankees management is far more at fault here, Cashman, Hal, Hank and Levine all have made statements, some not very delicate and more than a few borderline arrogant and demeaning.
West Coast Yankee Fan
Exactly, we don’t know. What we do know is that his bat speed appeared to be down last season, and that likely as a result, he hit groundballs at an almost 10% higher rate than in his career.
We also know that the vast majority of SS in MLB history were not able to remain at the position past 36.
If that’s the case with Jeter, the additional problem is that he doesn’t hit enough to play another position unless he plays the OF, and that seems unlikely given his age.
So I think it’s reasonable tor: 1) sign a one year deal to prove that 2010 doesn’t represent his ability going forward; or 2) share 50% the risk that he has begun to decline.
IMHO, $45m over 3 years would enable Jeter to share far less than 50% of the risk. It’s a very, very fair offer that takes Jeter’s on and off the field contributions into account and compensates him very well for it.
Laura I understand that. But, the Yankees have a recent history of giving a player more years than is prudent to secure their services. Posada, A-Rod, Burnett are examples and now they are probably going to give Cliff Lee six years if that is what it takes. Does anyone want to bet whether or not Lee will be an effective pitcher six years from now?
As Chad pointed out, “it must strike Jeter as odd that when it’s his turn to be paid again, the well is suddenly running dry”.
WOW – All I can say is I love Derek Jeter as a Yankee, but, if he demands $25 million for 6 years, if I’m the Yankees I say good luck, we’ve enjoyed all your years here, now, good-bye.
Catch you later, dinner bell just sounded.
mick
What’s wrong with a discussion about Jeter. There comes a point in every player’s career when he is at a crossroads, and this is that time for Jeter. So a discussion is healthy and natural.
WCYF
Are you saying all 4 of them are morons acting independently?
This is not a coincidence.
Maybe they are so far apart that getting together in a room is next to impossible and a place they will eventually get to but to do it now would spell ultimate defeat for the Jeter camp, so it is being put off by Close.
This is all stategic. It is also holding up other player moves. It is a dangerous game of chicken.
mick
What’s wrong with a discussion about Jeter. There comes a point in every player’s career when he is at a crossroads, and this is that time for Jeter. So a discussion is healthy and natural.
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Nothing Rich. This is what I am talking about when I say it’s a referendum on the man.
He has been under the radar. A lot of fans are reevaluating him right now.
WCYF
I think the Yankees overreacted to Close’s “baffling” comment
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If as most people are saying, the Jeter offer is further from the true value than the Yank offer, then Close comes off as an idiot stating it’s baffling.
Posada, Burnett, and to some extent, ARod, all were competitive efforts to retain services. The Mets were a very serious bidder for Posada. The Braves, a very serious bidder for Burnett. ARod was not as definite, but the Angels surely would have bid something. ARod always is an “outlier,” though, even in this.
The other issue with Posada and Burnett was the need that existed and no other real options being available.
And ARod is a one-of-a-kind player, the Yankees cleanup hitter, a 30-plus HR, 100-plus RBI guy who would be very difficult to replace. They would have sort of replaced him, I guess.
This Jeter situation is unique.
And, the Yankees can wait it out, because they do have a viable, if unproven, option in Nunez.
Rich in NJ November 26th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
West Coast Yankee Fan – Exactly, we don’t know. What we do know is that his bat speed appeared to be down last season, and that likely as a result, he hit groundballs at an almost 10% higher rate than in his career.
We also know that the vast majority of SS in MLB history were not able to remain at the position past 36. If that’s the case with Jeter, the additional problem is that he doesn’t hit enough to play another position unless he plays the OF, and that seems unlikely given his age.
So I think it’s reasonable tor: 1) sign a one year deal to prove that 2010 doesn’t represent his ability going forward; or 2) share 50% the risk that he has begun to decline. IMHO, $45m over 3 years would enable Jeter to share far less than 50% of the risk. It’s a very, very fair offer that takes Jeter’s on and off the field contributions into account and compensates him very well for it.
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Rich there is no question that your opinion above has a great deal of support and is a very well thought out and logical one that is the genesis of Yankee management’s position.
Accepting your premise for discussions sake, the process is the problem here more than the final contract which I believe will get done. This should have been kept behind closed doors and I lay that failure at the feet of Yankee management. They are the most secretive organization I have ever seen when they want to be, the Burnett black eye, Eiland’s mid-season leave-of-absence and Eiland’s dismissal are examples of that.
The leaked Yankee offer of 3 years and $45 million dollars has been positioned as a take-it-or-leave it proposition, even if it wasn’t. The Yankee management’s statements seemed to suggest that.
Conceivably, I think a 2 year deal offer on Yankee management’s part could have been met by a 6 year ask on Jeter’s part. The Yankees could have gone to 3 and Jeter’s side to 5 and both sides could have settled on 4 with the last being an option year or some variation on that theme. Most likely a front-end-loaded deal. All of this in private until the announcement of a deal.
And, the Yankees can wait it out, because they do have a viable, if unproven, option in Nunez.
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If they thought their offer would set the Jeter camp off as it appears to have, a la Torre, perhaps it was done on purpose.
Perhaps they have Crawford in the back of their mind.
WCYF:
I apologize. That was actually my son who wrote that. I thought somebody on the blog was impersonating me, but he just owned it.
Again, sorry about that.
Hey Jeter get your butt out here and defend yourself I am tired of being your pin cushion! lol
Hey Lost no problem at all. Thanks.
He get’s no pumpkin pie tonight as a result. *sigh* I am not really much of a disciplinarian.
I’ve been waiting to be impersonated on this blog, just didn’t expect it to be my own kin.
I understand, take my pie while your at it! Please!
What I mean by the Yankees waiting it out, was they can let Jeter take his time, let the negotiations unfold unrushed, no panic.
Their bigger fish is Lee. All plan B, C, D etc., flow from the success or failure of that. If Jeter goes elsewhere (perish the thought), they could do other things. But if Lee goes elsewhere, they HAVE to do other things.
LOL at Casey Close’s comments about the Yankees repeatedly violating the agreement. They responded to his inane comments in order to combat the inaccuracies of his comments………….that’s all.
“I apologize. That was actually my son who wrote that. I thought somebody on the blog was impersonating me, but he just owned it.”
lost -
don’t feel so bad. it’s happened before.
killer sometimes impersonates gb7, but we can all tell because he spells better.
Tonight at 8:00 PM EST, Bob Costas and an hour with Bob Uecker om MLB-TV. must see TV.
Crawford:
Some people in the org are very high on Crawford. I myself, would love to have him. It’s pretty much split right down the middle as of now (the level of interest).
If the money is there, it’s a no brainer to at least make an offer. I’ve shared before what a fantastic fit Carl would be. He carries himself very much like Jeter in many ways. Very talented athlete, great teammate, plays/works hard and love the game.
The difference with regards to Tex, is that even tho the Yankees were saying they are not in on him — that it would be ludicrous to spend that type of money — after CC & AJ, is that the entire Yankees org was unanimous. It was only a matter of getting Hal on board.
Even after Lee (assuming we get him) I still think we need another above-average bat.
West Coast Yankee Fan November 26th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
The team is worth $1.6 billion dollars and all of a sudden they are going to nickel and dime Derek Jeter? After giving A-rod a new deal between $26 and $30 million a year through 2017? Really?
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That’s a ridiculous statement. Since when do employees get paid based on how big or profitable the company is? That’s as ridiculous as the comments about the Steinbrenners being rich so they should pay more. The object of OWNING a business is to make money…not throw away profit by paying an additional extra $5M a year to a guy who you already are offering an extra $5M/year to.
What dumb reasoning! Do you think the stockboys at Walmart should get $25/hr because the Waltons are rich? Should kids flipping burgers get $25/hr because McDonalds is a huge company???? Geez! I’m not comparing Jeter to a lower level employee – he’s been a very, very important one and still will be. But arguing that pay should be based on the company size or whatever is ignorant of how ANY business works. In a free MARKET, pay is based on MARKET value.
Just to be clear:
Cash has made it very clear that he wants an additional bat. Most inside the organization feel the same from what I have heard. Not sure who it will be, because a lot has to take shape yet, but I wouldn’t exactly say, “No offer for Carl”.
“In a free MARKET, pay is based on MARKET value.”
how much did you get paid for writing that?
Clown that was not at all my point, not even close. It was a comment that pointed out the Yankees ability to pay Jeter, as they have paid A-Rod.
Chad said basically the same thing much better than I.
“It must strike Jeter as odd that when it’s his turn to be paid again, the well is suddenly running dry”.
“It must strike Jeter as odd that when it’s his turn to be paid again, the well is suddenly running dry”.
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It depends on the definition of “dry.”
WC, just as an FYI, I don’t think Jeter is done and it wouldn’t surprise me if he had another few good years left in him. I just don’t want to guarantee it because this is just my opinion and I could be dead wrong. If he’s still good after 3 years, then the Yankees can go year by year or even give Jeter a 2 year deal – something similar to what Andy does. This team is a bit of a mish mosh – youngish players who might not be here for the long term (Gardner, Granderson, Swisher), old players and players like Tex who are here for about forever. At some point, they need to get younger and they can not keep giving out long-term, bulky deals – particularly to players who are aging. This happens to every player – not just Jeter.
Lost, what bat? Where do they intend to fit this bat in the regular lineup? I’m not a big fan of Crawford; I do not want to give out a big contract to a guy who, when his legs go, that’s it.
It is probably true they would rather pay “Jeter” money to Crawford.
It might come down to having Jeter and Gardner or Crawford and say Cabrera.
Betsy, I don’t disagree conceptually but to my way of thinking, you don’t have that sudden come to jesus moment with Derek Jeter. You don’t change course in mid-stream with someone of his stature, you do it with a Burnett.
Crawford could hit 30 HR’s at the Stadium, speed is overrated. If it goes eventually he can still hit.
Randy-
I think “Killer” is in GB’s doghouse because of his late night forays.
He almost single-pawedly ruined GB’s sterling reputation for typing and spelling accuracy.
Betsy,
I’ve had the privilege to watch Carl Crawford mature. I don’t share the same opinion as you. I see him as a young Damon, minus and plus some attributes.
As far as who, like I said I don’t know. It’s pretty clear that Cash would like to add an above-average bat tho and depending on the results of what is currently taking shape (i.e. Jeter, Lee, Mo, Andy, etc.) I wouldn’t say for certain that the Yankee’s are NOT going to prepare an offer to CC II.
One more thing Betsy, if what you suggest might happen were to occur, namely Jeter not being able to perform the last contract year – the Yankees can fade that. They did so with Igawa and Johnson and others. They are prepared to do so with Cliff Lee if it takes six to sign him.
On a front-end loaded deal the Yankees might only be asked to eat $10 million. A lot of money but not to the Yankees. A Jeter deal would be worth that.
?It must strike Jeter as odd that when it’s his turn to be paid again, the well is suddenly running dry?.
You choose to focus on the well being dry but the paid AGAIN part right before it shouldn’t be ignored.
The Yankees don’t have a past due balance they are still paying off and have allegedly made an offer that covers going forward. Using comps, anything over roughly $10M a year is a full well.
I should also say that even if we wanted Crawford, he may not prefer the Yankees as a first choice. His first choice would be to not compete against Tampa. I lean towards the Angels, but the Redsox are going to come after him hard. The Angels have an edge based on what I said above.
I certainly wouldn’t mind a bit if thee added Crawford….he’s a real good ballplayer but my understanding was that they likely wouldn’t stretch the payroll enough to add both he and Lee.because the current outfield situation doesn’t warrant it……if they wanted to pay for him then fine by me, but the payroll couldn’t be the same as last year in that case.
New Post —>
Jeter was just an answer on Jeopardy.
blake November 26th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
I certainly wouldn’t mind a bit if thee added Crawford….he’s a real good ballplayer
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I’d love to see Crawford out there. It would give us that impact player out there that we need.
jeter’s last contract was courtesy of arod’s texas deal.
jeter can ask for anything he wants – he is the yankees and he represents the city and the sport.
but the yanks do not owe him. this is a business. there is a bottom line. they will negotiate and reach a compromise.
nobody wants to see jeter get 3000 as a pittsburgh pirate.
Just because the Yankees have made bad deals in the past they’re supposed to throw money at Jeter now? I love Jeter but lets get real! He is not worth 25 mil a year for 4 or 5 years. Derek, take the 45 mil and prove them wrong and then get an extension to 4-5 years!
Maybe not wages/hour or salary increases, but…
where I work, the employees receive more in profit sharing when the company has a good year. I realize sports franchises aren’t really in the same ballpark (pun intended) but it’s not like a worker’s total compensation being tied to company success is unprecedented.
Just sayin’…
Agreed. And when the company has a good year, the players get playoff money, commercials, ads, publicity they can roll into marketing deals, etc. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander and ballplayers get their share when their performance has helped the team win.