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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Feliciano considering arbitration

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 27, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ken Davidoff reports that Pedro Feliciano is “seriously considering” accepting the Mets arbitration offer.

Probably not a terrible idea for him, but it does take one logical fit off the board for the Yankees. Feliciano has been very good against lefties in his career — pretty much as reliable as an specialist out there — and he seems to fit for the Yankees because he shouldn’t require a long-term deal, he likely won’t cost as much money as a guy like Brian Fuentes and he won’t cost a draft pick like Scott Downs.

Feliciano is certainly not the only lefty out there, but he’s one who has been previously linked to the Yankees and seems to fit what they’re looking for.

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105 Responses to “Feliciano considering arbitration”

  1. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    A personal services contract is not going to happen nor is it a good idea right now.

    And the person to blame for not having that (if you are someone who wants Derek to get one) is Derek.

    There is obviously a huge gap between how much longer the Yankees feel confident Jeter will be playing baseball and how long Jeter does.

    Jetes right now is looking at 5 more years. The Yankees only feel comfortable going 3.

    Now why would Derek Jeter agree to basically retire 3 years from now?

    Why would the Yankees even want to do that? Who knows, maybe after 3 years they want to extend him a couple more.

    A personal services contract would basically be a provision in which Derek Jeter hits a certain age and the Yankees are pushing him out to retirement.

    Doesn’t make sense for either side.

  2. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    That’ll put a crimp in the Yankees plans to add another lefty. Hopefully, the Yanks gamble to expose 4 lefties to the Rule 5 draft won’t bite ‘em too hard.

  3. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    “Everyone was susceptible to the estate tax.By dying when he did in 2010, George Steinbrenner saved his family up to $600-million in estate taxes. The estate tax lapsed in 2010 and will start up again in 2011.”

    ————————–

    WCYF,

    I didn’t mean last night that George’s estate completely avoided the tax in a different year.

    I meant that if the Yankees were still part of his estate where he was susceptible to a huge hit like you say, the Steinbrenners have some really, really bad lawyers and accountants.

    George was too smart and too rich to make himself vulnerable upon his death in the matter in which you describe.

    Likely it was all taken care of in 1999 when YGE LLC took control of the Yankees and the YES Network.

  4. yankee21 November 27th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Feliciano is one tough hombre on LH batters,, maybe NYY makes him an offer he can’t refuse??

  5. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Yankee Trader,

    The website wrote an article a little while back, but used all 10 players baseball reference cites as most similar to Jeter.

    I thought you might be interested.

    “Peruse those links for a while. Roberto Alomar and Ryne Sandberg were done as an elite players by age 33. Frisch and Trammell were done by age 35. Larkin, Gehringer, Whitaker were finished by age 36. After a few down seasons, Morgan had one big year at age 38 and was done. You could try to argue that Derek is by his nature an outlier as a HOF-quality talent, but so are most of the names on that list. It’s also interesting to note that Alomar, Larkin, Frisch, Gehringer, Trammel, Morgan and Simmons all had a dip in their production in their mid 30s, then one big year before being finished. Sound familiar?”

    http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010.....-age-22964

  6. yankee21 November 27th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Maybe Feliciano believes the new NYM manager will actually have a brain and pitch him under a reasonble workload instead of every single game the METS needed an out or two.

  7. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    “so who was going to be the yankee catcher the past three years?”

    ————————————

    Apparently Jose Molina in 2008, Posada in 2009, and Cervelli in 2010.

  8. G. Love November 27th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    If you give Derek Jeter 4 years + close to 20 million off the season he just had, you’re a poor GM and a dumb owner.

    There is no reason to budge from the 3 year 45 million offer. He is not worth more than that. I don’t even think the overpay built into that is necessary.

    If I was Jeter and I was sure I’m going to an all star performer stats wise next year, I’d take a one year deal and prove it.

    All he looks to be doing is holding up the Yankees with a water gun to pay for his declining soon to be bench player years which is ridiculous.

    All Jeter is doing with these negotiations is making it easier for the Yankees to “put him in his place” when it comes to batting order and SS.

    If a GM gave him more than 80 million guaranteed it’s so ludicrous they should be fired on the spot.

    I love Jeter, but he’s not my favorite Yankee of the past. I relate more to Mo and Bernie, O’Neil and Tino than Jeter. The image I always have of Jeter was when Tino was getting drilled or anyone on our team was getting drilled, Jeter played pacifist. He’d be smiling and laughing with the opposition on 2b. I’m not saying I want him to be a fist bearing brawler, but when teams were using our hitters as batting practice and the benches emptied you could always count on Jeter to not get caught up in the moment and act above it.

    The dynasty and celebrity caused by it clouded Torre’s judgment. He stopped going for the jugular and he also though they could not have built the new Stadium without him. Look where he ended up.

    Jeter holding up the Yankees for this long is a sign of something some of us suspected about him but we didn’t have to deal with as he was locked into the long term deal.

    He thinks he deserves the world because he’s Jeter. He’s a hall of famer and one of the best Yankees ever, but he also doesn’t realize how fortunate he is to play in this city with these owners who have spared no expense to keep him surrounded with great players.

    His reality check needs to happen fast as the longer this drags on the more petty and greedy he’s looking to the fans.

  9. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    jeter and close should simply fly into logan, go take a walk down newberry street, take in the sights around the city for a few hours and then fly back to their homes go on vacation until after new years and leave yankee management guessing.

  10. Betsy November 27th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    I’m not about to presume anything about Jeter just because he’s not handling this as I would like him to. I have no idea if he thinks that he deserves the world -I can’t and won’t jump to those conclusions.

  11. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Apparently Jose Molina in 2008, Posada in 2009, and Cervelli in 2010.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I’ve always hoped NYYs would sign a .210 hitting catcher with no power or a .240 type hitting catcher with no power and lead the league in errors in less than half of the scheduled games to be the front line catcher.

  12. Betsy November 27th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    I also will not assume that he doesn’t realize how fortunate he’s been……(and even if I thought that was the case, you think any player realizes that?). I have no idea what’s going on inside Jeter’s head and it’s unfair to assum that I do.

  13. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    “I’ve always hoped NYYs would sign a .210 hitting catcher with no power or a .240 type hitting catcher with no power and lead the league in errors in less than half of the scheduled games to be the front line catcher.”

    ————————————-

    You misunderstand.

    Molina WAS the frontline catcher in 2008 and Cervelli in 2010.

  14. MorningPerson November 27th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Repost:

    Posada was the best – THE BEST – catcher available at the time. I don’t even think there was another viable option on the market, and there certainly wasn’t anyone “in the system” at the time to replace him. Posada had no injury history – he was a very good gamble at the time. In fact, the storyline at the time was that Jorge came to catching late in his career and so you could reasonably assume he’d be able to do it well for a few years beyond what you’d normally consider. You need to look at the situation as it was at the time, not as it looks 20/20 hindsight.

    Every contract is a gamble anyway. Anything can happen. Or nothing.

    I think the Yankees did a good thing with Posada’s contract.

  15. G. Love November 27th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Well no one is asking you to think anything Betsy. It’s what I feel about the player. This is a blog. It’s where you post what you think and feel.

    I think Jeter is full of himself for asking for more than 20 million a year off the horrible offensive he just went through.

    And because of his ego/aura/prestige we had a manager terrified to move him from the top of the batting order for fear of the world ending because of it.

    When you see a team act irrationally and make concessions to a player because of who he is, it suggests to me that the organization knows they have to treat the man with kid gloves.

    Now the gloves are off and the Yankees are trying to generously assert that they are the boss and Jeter is a player.

    It’s about time.

    I can’t go through another season of him batting leadoff like he did last season with no consequences.

  16. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    “Molina WAS the frontline catcher in 2008 and Cervelli in 2010.”

    cervelli was not the starting catcher in 2010.

  17. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    I didn’t miss anything. Neither Cervelli nor Molina should be or would have been front line catchers, except by default.

  18. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    “cervelli was not the starting catcher in 2010.”

    ——————————-

    Do you want to wager that LGY signed baseball I was going to send you?

  19. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    “I didn’t miss anything. Neither Cervelli nor Molina should be or would have been front line catchers, except by default.”

    ———————————

    But they were, which was the point I was making and you missed.

  20. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    “Do you want to wager that LGY signed baseball I was going to send you?”

    i don’t know. i kind of want that ball because it’s actual proof that you’ve been near a baseball , at least once.

  21. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    A bit of nit picking on Cervelli. He started 2 more games as the catcher than Posada,

  22. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 November 27th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    And because of his ego/aura/prestige we had a manager terrified to move him from the top of the batting order for fear of the world ending because of it.
    _______________________________________________________
    I guess girardi was afraid of moving Tex too for fear of the world ending. Cmon. Of all the things to criticize Jeter for, where he bats in the lineup is not one of them.

  23. pat November 27th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    “jeter and close should simply fly into logan, go take a walk down newberry street, take in the sights around the city for a few hours and then fly back to their homes go on vacation until after new years and leave yankee management guessing.”

    You get caught flirting with someone you better be prepared to really go home with them because the locks may be changed at your house when you get there.

  24. blake November 27th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Cervelli caught more games in 2010 but the fact that Jorge caught all but one playoff game should suggest who the starter really was.

  25. yankee21 November 27th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Jeter was great offensively in 2009, atrocious in 2010, I suspect 2011 will be somewhere in the middle. He is a sure-handed SS who takes charge on PO and is excellent on the DP but has almost no range and his arm strength is below average.

    He is 36 on opening day and 37 before the AS break. With all this, absent any icon status or marketing appeal, he is an $8-10mil per year player, for 1-2 years.

    The Yankees have offered him this and more. Very reasonable and respectable.

  26. BoJo November 27th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Give Jeter the 3 years/$45m with an opt-out option after the first year. If he rebounds and has a great season, he can renegotiate his contract. If he doesn’t have a great year, the contract will be proven to be a fair deal that rewards him for his contributions. You can also add incentive binuses such as All-Star appearance, Silver Slugger award, MVP placements, WS MVP award, etc. If he has a great year, the incentives could total his average of $18M, or even go to $20M.

    Such an offer was basically what they did with Andy, who came back and earned the incentives.

  27. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
    “I didn’t miss anything. Neither Cervelli nor Molina should be or would have been front line catchers, except by default.”

    ———————————

    But they were, which was the point I was making and you missed.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    And how did those seasons go? They are not and never should be considered as front line catchers….where they earned it, rather than stayed healthier or won by default.

  28. yankee21 November 27th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    BoJo- I like your proposal.

  29. G. Love November 27th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    NYY626,

    Tex had two good months and more horrible months last year. Cano should have been the 3 hitter after Tex punted the opening months of the season. His batting average was not great.

    Because Girardi was afraid to move Tex we lost games and didn’t score runs that we could have with Cano hitting 3. Might have won the division and HFA because of that. Might have made a difference.

  30. austinmac November 27th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    The Yankees need to resolve the issue with Jeter one way or the other by the winter meetings. They cannot stand still while other potential signees go elsewhere. I wouldn’t call it a deadline to Jeter, but a necessary decision point. $15-20M/year can do a lot of good elsewhere if need be.

  31. yankee21 November 27th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    One point often over-looked on the Posada contract negotiations is the timing of it all.

    Posada was coming off a very good season. Arod had just opted out and things were still unsettled on that front. Giambi was not reliable. The Yankees stood a real good chance of losing 2 middle of the order bats if NYY had not given into Posada’s demand for a 4th year. They had no choice as Posada was expected to continue contributing at a high level and he had a higher offer.

    Can’t really condemn the Yankees on this one.

  32. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    dustin pedroia played in 75 games last year.

    so according to lgy he was not the red sox starting second baseman .

  33. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Mac, I agree that the sooner they agree on a contract, but, NYYs haven’t lost out on any players that would be of help to them. None of the biggest market targets have signed, except for maybe Martinez, who the Yanks had no interest in.

  34. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    randy,

    Maybe I’ll surprise you and send you my Yogi signed ball.

    That will cost you more in S+H though ;)

  35. yankee21 November 27th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Glove, definitely one of Joe G’s weak points, he stubbornly refuses to move any star off their obligated place in the line-up. IMO, without question, Joe G decisions cost NYY several games last year by not making the decision to move TEX off the 3 spot and Jeter out of the LO spot.

    That is one reason I do not like AB or Games played incentives, as part of bonuses tied into Jeter’s contract. It will only box Girardi in more if Jeter continues as a poor top of the order hitter.

  36. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    “dustin pedroia played in 75 games last year.

    so according to lgy he was not the red sox starting second baseman .”

    ————————–

    Incorrect randy.

    Pedroia was in fact the Red Sox starting 2B last season.

    You’re bad at this.

  37. G. Love November 27th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    When Posada and Mo renegotiated last time it was definitely from a position of strength. Jeter is in no such position.

    When Andy was in a position of weakness off a bad year he took the incentive laden deal and won out. Then when he proved himself that year he cashed in on another deal.

    If I were Jeter I’d take Andy’s lead on this one and go prove it. Take the 3/45 deal and ask for an opt out after season one as suggested above.

    If he thinks he’s the best SS in baseball and will prove it with his bat next year, then he should opt out and try to grab more cash since that’s the thing holding him up here. Cash.

  38. YsGuy November 27th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    jeter – selling his pedistal for the last shekel

  39. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    “And how did those seasons go? They are not and never should be considered as front line catchers….where they earned it, rather than stayed healthier or won by default.”

    ————————————

    I’m not talking about that at all or even discussing Jorge’s negotiation.

    All I said was that Posada was not the starting catcher 2 out 3 years. Nothing more. Relax.

  40. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 November 27th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    G Love – my point is was that you cant blame jeter for that, its on Joe. Everyone was saying all year that Girardi was “afraid” to move jeter bc of jeters reaction, but it was just people making up narratives. When a story comes out that Jeter shoved girardi against a locker and told him be better not be moved, then you can blame him ;)

    Im just so sick of the stories the media is making up lately. For years we heard we would never win a WS with that “cancer” known as Arod on our team ( eyeroll). Well yesterday I saw an article that said the reason we didnt win was because Jeter wouldnt be friends with arod and we only won last year because they became friendly again. Give. Me. A. Break.

  41. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    There is a reason that the Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretskys and Michael Jordans of the world were/are paid hundreds of millions of dollars by corporations for being the face of their brand. They don’t do any work for the company in the traditional sense. Yet their value is almost incalculable. Customers buy the companies products and the brand increases in value substantially because of their association with it.

    For fifteen years, Derek Jeter has been the face of the Yankees brand. Not Posada, not Tino, not Torre, not Mo, not Mussina, not O’Neill. During that time the value of the Yankees brand increased from the hundreds of millions of dollars to almost $1.6 billion dollars. Is that all attributable to Jeter. No. Is a part of it? I say yes.

    I think one can make the case that he should be compensated for that. Some may say he already has been compensated. I disagree. That was for his on-the-field performance. Some may say those icons that I mentioned above, Woods, Jordan and Gretsky, were paid by corporations for their endorsements, not their teams. True. And the value of their teams did not increase by a billion dollars during their tenure either.

    Derek Jeter is unique and it is hard to monetize his value to the Yankee brand. In the sports world of today, how do you value an athlete and team captain who not only contributed to winning five world championships and numerous post-season appearances, but carries himself with a professionalism, and practices a work ethic, that is admired by almost everyone in the sports world and out. Who never gets in trouble or does anything that would reflect negatively on his team. Who called his manger sir. No one respects the game and the fans more than Derek Jeter. And how many young kids in those fifteen years became lifelong Yankee fans, future ticket holders, because of Derek Jeter. What parent wouldn’t want their child idolizing Derek Jeter.

    If one wants to make the case that Derek Jeter should be paid let’s say $12 million a year for three years based on his on-the-field comparative skills at this point in time, ok. But, I say it is more than fair to give him a small percentage on top of that for all of the above reasons. Namely his role in helping to increase the Yankees valuation a billion dollars.

    Is this a typical way to compensate an athlete on his last contract? No. But Derek Jeter is no typical athlete and just because something has not been done before does not mean new ground can’t be broken. An aside, it is no wonder that Randy Levine insists on looking on Jeter’s deal as a ‘baseball only’ arrangement.

    Give Jeter a 3% premium on that billion, surely 3% is a very conservative estimate of what his contribution was. Give him that gold watch of $30 million dollars. Give him $66 million for three years, shake hands and move on.

    He deserves it.

  42. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    How does moving Teixeira out of the 3 spot help? According those clamouring for that, you want to put Cano in the 3 spot and put the supposedly weak hitting Teixeira in as protection for Rodriguez. Gardner into the leadoff spot? So he can stand there and look at 3 strikes for game after game, or refuse to run when he’s given the sign or knows he should? Right now, I’m not sure that he’s baseball smart enough to do that job in more than an emergency or in short spurts.

  43. YsGuy November 27th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    “If one wants to make the case that Derek Jeter should be paid let’s say $12 million a year for three years based on his on-the-field comparative skills at this point in time, ok. But, I say it is more than fair to give him a small percentage on top of that for all of the above reasons.”

    thats the other 3M/per

    please explain the other $100M

  44. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    lgy-

    i haven’t had good luck signing baseballs.

    once when players like nettles, and oliver, and mcrae would hang out in the bullpen with me this little kid kept bugging me for an autograph. i kept saying i was a nobody , but he thought i was just blowing him off and didn’t want to take the time to sign.

    finally to get rid of him because he was being a real pest, i finally signed his ball and he looked to his dad and said ” who the hell is randy ——–”?”.

  45. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
    “And how did those seasons go? They are not and never should be considered as front line catchers….where they earned it, rather than stayed healthier or won by default.”

    ————————————

    I’m not talking about that at all or even discussing Jorge’s negotiation.

    All I said was that Posada was not the starting catcher 2 out 3 years. Nothing more. Relax.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    So for 2 games, Cervelli became known as the Yankees starting catcher in your eyes? Good thinking.

  46. yankee21 November 27th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    GB, I would have liked Gardner to have the chance to fail then assuming he would fail. I would have liked Cano to have the chance to fail in the 3rd spot then assuming nobody would pick-up the slack in the 5 hole.

    The problem with Tex is when he slumps he really slumps he virtually has no chance of getting a hit and it is not only a deep funk it lasts several weeks.

    I totally agree on Gardner he needs to pick up his game. He is a terrible base-stealer a below average bunter and is too d predictable at the plate.

  47. G. Love November 27th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    NYY626,

    I agree it’s on Girardi, but I do think the fact that demoting Jeter (or Tex) would be seen as a slap in the face and Girardi didn’t want to deal with it or “lose” his players by doing it. However, by not making a move he could have cost his team wins.

    I think the whole tenor of the contract renegotiation is to let Jeter know the future is not going to be up to him. I think the Yankees are trying to set a tone with him that will help them when they need to approach him about moving down in the order and potentially to the bench if he keeps declining.

    A 45 million golden parachute for the next 3 years is pretty generous in my book. He doesn’t even have to get better or exceed what he did last season. He just has to put the uniform on and collect 45 million guaranteed.

    Based on his last season no other player in baseball would be given that offer.

    He’s still being treated like a prince. He needs to not act like a spoiled prince.

    I really think the next 3 years and the latter phase of his career are going to be rough for him by seeing what he’s asking for money/years wise and how he’s allowed this to drag out this far.

  48. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    “So for 2 games, Cervelli became known as the Yankees starting catcher in your eyes? Good thinking.”

    ————————

    Yeah it’s my eyes. I’m just pulling this stuff out of my butt.

    It is not the guys who keep records of the rosters and such :roll:

  49. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    YS guy – $36 million for three years baseball compensation + $30 million total premium = $66 million contract total

  50. LGY November 27th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    randy,

    That’s what I’m wondering! Smart kid! :lol:

    What did you think of Nettles? My Dad met him at a dinner and said he was drunk and an ahole.

  51. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
    lgy-

    i haven’t had good luck signing baseballs.

    once when players like nettles, and oliver, and mcrae would hang out in the bullpen with me this little kid kept bugging me for an autograph. i kept saying i was a nobody , but he thought i was just blowing him off and didn’t want to take the time to sign.

    finally to get rid of him because he was being a real pest, i finally signed his ball and he looked to his dad and said ” who the hell is randy ——–”?”.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    why not give the kid a signed baseball with some of that sage Jimmy Dugan advice? It could have changed his life forever and you’d be his hero. Of course, you might then need to deal with his parents.

    “Dear Kid. Avoid the cl–p.”
    (signed) Randy_____________

  52. austinmac November 27th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    GB,

    I agree they haven’t missed out yet, but signing time for free agents is approaching. The silly thing is is the Jeter signing shouldn’t be so contentious. The figure is clearly closer to the Yankees. A proposal like you suggested seems reasonable to me.

  53. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    “Derek Jeter is unique and it is hard to monetize his value to the Yankee brand. ”

    that’s what i’ve been trying to say all day.

    every sport has a different way of compensating players and having them under control.

    even golf has it’s problems.

    i once read a story when tiger was at his peak where tim finchum, the pga tour commissioner called woods into his office and told him that he didn’t like all the foreign tournaments tiger was playing in and told tiger how many he was going to play in or he’d be fined.

    tiger already had talked over this possibility with nike and, tiger looked finchem in the eye and said something to the effect that if that was the case he was going to partner with nike start a new tour and take the the top 100 players with him.

    tiger played where he wanted that year.

  54. Tar November 27th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    The Yankees attendance figure for 1995 was 1,705,263 which was below the AL league average.

    Since then the Yankees have more than doubled that yearly figure and have never trailed anyone in attendance.

    More than 50 million fans have gone to Yankee stadium in the last 15 years.

    Winning is a giant part of that. But if you could name one player most responsible for that rise who would it be.

    On a personal note I was Little League coach for 5 years in the city during the mid 80′s. The vast majority of kids on my teams were Mets fans. Why— Doc, Straw, Hernandez etc.

    I would be willing to bet that Since Derek has been a Yankee, the battle for future generations of baseball fans in the city has been all Yankees.

    If I am to believe Cash it’s only about last years stats, yeah right buddy.

  55. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Interesting Randy. I had never heard that Tiger story before.

  56. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Mac, I was just looking at past histories of the Yanks FA signings and most seem to happen between the last week in November and Christmas. I think they sign all of their priorites within that time frame. Just a guess, though.

  57. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Good post Tar.

  58. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Tar, it would be just as interesting to see how many parents pushed their kids to use Jeter as that model and how they will think about Jeter after this is over.

  59. Betsy November 27th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    ………wow, talk about defensive. You posted something and I responded, so I have no clue what the heck your problem is, GL.

  60. MTU November 27th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Big Al-

    If you’re out there.

    You’ve got mail =>

    :)

  61. Tar November 27th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Thanks WCYF

    GB

    The Boss never, ever wanted to finish behind the Mets at winning over the kids of NY.

    Even if Cashman gets his contract, the way this whole thing is playing out the Yankees and Derek are the losers. It’s stupid and the Boss would be furious.

  62. SJ44 November 27th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Same drivel, different day.

    Actually, it’s very easy to measure value a player has to a franchise.

    Teams, players and companies do it all the time.

    For example, the Yankees never reached 4 million fans in attendance until Alex joined the team.

    Nor did YES ratings, and ad revenues, rise as rapidly as they did until Alex joined the team.

    In fact, from a value to the franchise (ie: increased revenue standpoint), Alex’s arrival to the Yankees has increased the Yankees, and the YES Network’s brand and bottom line more than Derek has.

    The numbers bear it out.

    It’s why Goldman Sachs, a significant shareholder in the YES Network, got personally involved in the Alex FA negotiations.

    Be careful trying to sell “intangibles”.

    Mainly because, if you can’t quantify them correctly, the tangibles end up taking the day.

    The Yankees aren’t going to pay Derek Jeter 20 million + dollars per year.

    There is neither a tangible or intangible reason for doing so.

    If his brand was strong enough to do so, teams would step up and do it. None have, which should tell you something.

    So far, nobody is even attempting to match the 3/45 that’s currently on the table.

    That should tell you all you need to know about Derek’s CURRENT value.

    Which, after all the posturing, whining and complaining is concluded, is all that matters now.

  63. MoRings42 November 27th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Jeter needs the Yankees more than the Yankees need him. Let’s face some reality here.. he’s getting older.. gold gove or not, he’s not like he used to be out there.. his hitting is declining, you can no longer stick him anywhere in the lineup.. He can’t be a #2 with the amount of groundballs he hits.. He can’t be a leadoff forever.. He’ll be a 7-9 very soon.

    I think 15 a year is very generous.. I would have offered less than that with a 4 year. You also have to keep in mind the Cliff Lee element to all of this.. How will his contract effect that signing?

  64. Joe from Long Island November 27th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    randy – do you really think Theo is going to pay over 20M a year, for what, 3,4,5 years, for a 37-year old SS? Boston? The place where they invented the notion of tossing out once-popular players once they didn’t need them anymore? Nomar, Boggs, Clemens?

    And the idea of Jeter taking a lesser contract to play for the Red Sox, just to make his point? That will do wonders for his image. What’s he going to say, that he always loved the infield at Fenway? If the stories about Close being “baffled” (the favorite word, lately) about the fan reaction now are true, he ain’t seen nothin’ yet if Jeter goes to Boston.

    I know you’re not a fan of the Yankees’ front office (they make it so easy, too), but, c’mon, let’s get real. The only thing Jeter and Close window shopping in Boston would do, IMO, is make the Yanks’ FO more hard line.

  65. Mell November 27th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    “randy – do you really think Theo is going to pay over 20M a year, for what, 3,4,5 years, for a 37-year old SS? Boston?”

    They wouldn’t pay him half that. They gain absolutely nothing by doing so. Not talent-wise, not financially, not in any way at all. Zero chance it happens.

  66. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    SJ44 – you might consider disagreeing with someone without feeling the need to call their opinion drivel.

    As to the context, building a brand happens over time and accordingly it is not reasonable nor accurate to attribute any change in valuation to a single event such as A-Rod’s appearance on the scene in New York.

  67. SJ44 November 27th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    As Pat said, if they decide to go window shopping in Boston, which they won’t, they better be prepared to leave because the Steinbrenner Brothers will shut this negotiation down so fast it will make your head spin.

    Do you know who becomes the big loser in that?

    Derek Jeter.

    That’s how you torch your 15 year reputation.

    It’s also how you then are subject to a REAL market value deal. Which will be considerably less than 15 million a year.

    If Derek’s market was as strong as some believe it is, you don’t need cheap theatrics to pump it up.

    Especially when that kind of stuff goes COMPLETELY against what you have been about for 15 years.

    That shows more desperation than good business sense and Derek is too smart to do something that dumb.

  68. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    “What did you think of Nettles? My Dad met him at a dinner and said he was drunk and an ahole.”

    lgy-

    i liked nettles and had great respect for him.

  69. Tar November 27th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    “For example, the Yankees never reached 4 million fans in attendance until Alex joined the team.”

    Actually the teams attendance figures jumped an equal amount after Jeter joined the team. The 4 million record was in Alex’s second year.

    “In fact, from a value to the franchise (ie: increased revenue standpoint), Alex’s arrival to the Yankees has increased the Yankees, and the YES Network’s brand and bottom line more than Derek has.”

    In other words they have BOTH been very important to the the bottom line. Alex more than Derek or Derek more than Alex, who cares. Two very unique cases.

    Exactly why Derek Jeter deserves to be paid in a unique way–just like Alex was.

    Not saying as much or for that long, but certainly more than just from a statistical (or owner) point of view.

  70. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Yankees signed RHP Brian Anderson and LHP Andy Sisco to minor league deals with invites to st. Glad Cashman is busy. lol

  71. SJ44 November 27th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    It doesn’t take that much time. Especially with media companies.

    Ratings and ad revenues are reported annually and it’s quite easy to track spikes in both and look to the reasons why both areas experienced increases.

    As has been the case with Yankee attendance and YES Network ratings since 2004.

    Unless of course you believe YES acquiring the rights to New Jersey Nets games spiked their increased viewership and ad revenues since 2004.

  72. Mell November 27th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Yankees sign LHP Andy Sisco and OF turned P Brian Anderson to minor league deals per Rosenthal. Sisco coming back from TJ. Whiffed 10.1 per 9 in AA last year, his 1st action since 2007.

  73. Betsy November 27th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Joe, not a fan of Cash?

  74. Betsy November 27th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    I find it hard to believe that Sox fans would really want an aging Jeter – just to stick it to Yankee fans? If they read the polls, Yankee fans are generally on the Yankees side in this anyway.

  75. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    ‘ “Dear Kid. Avoid the cl–p.” ‘

    :)

  76. Chip November 27th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    A few years ago Boston’s negotiations with Varitek (their Jeter) were just as public and just as sour. In the end Varitek signed for a lot less than he wanted (Posada money) because no one would pay him for being Varitek. It didn’t destroy his standing with the team or his rep.

    Same thing will happen with Derek, he just needs to see for himself that he doesn’t have the value he thinks he does.

    He’s not going to retire and he’s not going to spend his last few years playing for a bad team

  77. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
    ‘ “Dear Kid. Avoid the cl–p.” ‘

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    One of my favorite scenes in “A League Of Their Own”, along with Jimmy Dugan’s team prayer before the game.

  78. Chip November 27th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Red Sox have no interest in Derek and they aren’t going to spend 100mil on a pr stunt

  79. yankeefeminista November 27th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Chip November 27th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
    A few years ago Boston’s negotiations with Varitek (their Jeter) were just as public and just as sour. In the end Varitek signed for a lot less than he wanted (Posada money) because no one would pay him for being Varitek. It didn’t destroy his standing with the team or his rep.

    Same thing will happen with Derek, he just needs to see for himself that he doesn’t have the value he thinks he does.

    He’s not going to retire and he’s not going to spend his last few years playing for a bad team.
    __________
    Varitek was in deep decline and had batted .238, .255 and .220 in 2006-2008 with a .672 OPS in ’08. It is hardly comparable in terms of his role in lineup/defensively vs. Jeter’s role–starting SS still, and numbers.

  80. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    “As Pat said, if they decide to go window shopping in Boston, which they won’t, they better be prepared to leave because the Steinbrenner Brothers will shut this negotiation down so fast it will make your head spin.”

    sj44-

    cashman told jeter to go check his options.

    maybe the steinbrenner brothers should have a talk with their gm about that.

    i still maintain jeter he’s a lot of options and that he’s a brand separate from the yankees.

    jeter has done nothing to tarnish his image.

    the average baseball fan loves to hate the yankees.

    jeter is not going to look bad in their eyes because he stands up to yankee management.

    i think we really need jeter to test the free agent waters to answer a lot of these questions we’re debating.

    you can’t know what’s going to happen if jeter really hits the open market because no one who is the most recognizable face in baseball has been a free agent before.

    this is a unique situation and in open bidding anything could happen.

    the red sox would be fools not to grab jeter.

    i don’t think there’s a precedent for this kind of opportunity in baseball.

    maybe you can think of one. i can’t.

    if i’m john henry and jeter is really available. i grab him.

    the red sox immediately become the most talked about biggest brand in baseball.

  81. 108 stitches November 27th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    The Yankees may want to consider letting the Jeter talks cool and make no further offers then move on to Cliff Lee which will be the most money added to the 2011 payroll to begin with.
    Once a deal with Lee is reached, they have a clear idea how much more can be spent on Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, and possibly a bullpen lefty.
    With Lee, it come down to the Yankees and Rangers. Jeter, Rivera, and Pettitte are not going anywhere else.

  82. Mell November 27th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    “the red sox immediately become the most talked about biggest brand in baseball.”

    For how long? Dropping money on a guy who serves no need and makes no improvement to the on field product can’t serve as much more than a temporary fix, can it? Will the brand not suffer after a season of 85 win baseball?

  83. PittsburghYankeeFan November 27th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Problem is, they are giving Jeter an extra couple million per year to reward him for what he has done. Why didn’t Jeter ask to renegotiate his contract after 2009?

    $15 x 3 with a vested option year 4 is more than reasonable. Add some clauses for reaching 3000 and 3500 hits, and well as some vested plate appearance clauses. $23 x 4-5 is not happening.

    Maybe it’s time to retire to Minka, Jeter, if your thinking is along those lines.

  84. PittsburghYankeeFan November 27th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    I agree with leaving Jeter alone, and focusing on Lee, Mo, and Pettite for a while.

  85. Mell November 27th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    “Why didn’t Jeter ask to renegotiate his contract after 2009?”

    Yankees have a history of renegotiating existing contracts, do they?

  86. randy l. November 27th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    mell-

    if you believe that jeter is not going to be a really good player for the next three or four years, then you should take the position the yankees should be looking for a new shortstop right now.

    why would the yankees even bother to sign jeter if he’s a bad as you think he is ?

  87. Jerkface November 27th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Randy doesn’t understand that the fans who hate the Yankees hate Derek Jeter. They say he is A-rod’s boy toy and boo him mercilessly and call him overrated and make fun of his gold gloves.

    Jeter going to another team just means the rest of the league laughs at him. He isn’t as much of his ‘own brand’ as you think.

  88. Jerkface November 27th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Randy is now applying to the Bret the Hitman style of arguing, where he just keeps saying the same thing over and over again. Sadly, no one is buying it.

  89. Bret The Hitman November 27th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Jeter bashing 24/7.

    Yay!!!

  90. Mell November 27th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Randy:

    I’m really not sure. I think he has a value to the Yankees that he does not have to any other team. But I doubt his next three years will be dramatically different than what we saw in 2010. I don’t think it’s worth 3 years and $45M, but am OK with the Yankees paying a premium based on what he’s meant to the team.

  91. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    The fans have little to do with the Jeter negotiations. Make that nothing. Both parties have to sign a contract they agree to. That’s all.

  92. PittsburghYankeeFan November 27th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    The Yankees have no history of renegotiating contracts.

    However, if Jeter was so concerned about his “legacy” and “value to the franchise,” maybe he and Casey Close could have had some discussions with management in 2009, perhaps?

    I love the Yankees, and I have been watching them for longer than 50% of the posters here have been alive.

    However, I could take or leave Jeter at this point, especially with his performances in 2 of the past 3 years, especially when he was advised to change his approach at the plate to make up for declining bat speed. Who was among the leaders in GIDPs this year, and in the past few years?

  93. yankeefeminista November 27th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Jerkface November 27th, 2010 at 2:33 pm
    Randy doesn’t understand that the fans who hate the Yankees hate Derek Jeter. They say he is A-rod’s boy toy and boo him mercilessly and call him overrated and make fun of his gold gloves.

    Jeter going to another team just means the rest of the league laughs at him. He isn’t as much of his ‘own brand’ as you think.
    ______________________________________
    Jeter’s jersey is the best selling Jersey in baseball. Sells more than Alex’s even after the World Series. He is the only one among the top five jerseys bought who defies the SLG trend. Jeter is his own brand.

    Little kids who never saw him in his prime wear his jersey. He is synonymous with Yankee history/fan consciousness. He also to this day gets the loudest cheers of any player even during meaningless AB’s at Yankee Stadium. I attend most games and it is always the case.

    As for people “laughing at him” in Boston. Yeah, uh, Boston fans are our rivals. Why wouldn’t they denigrate him? They denigrate Alex too, with too many epithets to mention on a “family” blog. What is your point?

  94. clownthrowindown November 27th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    If fans have nothing to do with the negotiations then why is Jeter trying to use them as leverage?

    And why is the FO offering him a premium?

    The value of fans (and their discetionary spending) is what the whole negotiation is about. Everyone knows he’s only worth $8-10 for production.

    You have it backwards.

  95. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    Clown – Jeter has said nothing and Close has said very little. The are not trying to use fans as leverage. This has nothing to do with the fans spending. And who said he is worth $8-10 million? You?

  96. Joe from Long Island November 27th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    A trial lawyer once told me something that I found interesting.

    When the facts are on your side, you argue the facts. When you don’t have the facts, you go with emotions.

    Over time, I’ve found that to be that to be the case just about every time, in every situation.

  97. GreenBeret7 November 27th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    a few “people” laughed about NY signing Sisco and Anderson, but, most likely never bothered to look at what Anderson accomplished in his first year of pitching. He’s the former White Sox outfielder. He’s always had a good arm. Sisco is left handed, a strikeout pitcher with control issues. Both are 28. They will likely not make $70,000 this year combined. Pretty cheap gambles, I’d say.

  98. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    If you are talking about my innocuous lol, I found it a humorous news item today with all the talk about Jeter, Mo and Lee. I’m all for taking inexpensive shots at hitting the lottery.

  99. clownthrowindown November 27th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    WCYF- have you even been paying attention? Man, you are really out there. Close said the Yankees compare him to Ruth. He certainly wasn’t talking about stats. Icon status is based on fans. Its all about fans and their money. Show me one single link that puts Jeter’s playing value anywhere near $15M/year. Are you seriously stating that a .270 hitter is worth more than that? Close doesn’t think so…hence the baffled statement. And Cashman doesn’t. You are beyond reasoning when it comes to Jeter. Take your shot, but I’m done responding to your nonsense. No one can take you seriously anymore.

  100. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Clown. I wrote a long post above concerning my opinion on Jeter. I’ll leave it at that. Thanks.

  101. yankeefeminista November 27th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
    If you are talking about my innocuous lol, I found it a humorous news item today with all the talk about Jeter, Mo and Lee. I’m all for taking inexpensive shots at hitting the lottery.
    ___________________
    Esp. when it comes to potential bullpen arms. We’d do better to use our own pitching prospects and cheap alternatives with potential.

  102. yankeefeminista November 27th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    clownthrowindown November 27th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
    WCYF- have you even been paying attention? Man, you are really out there. Close said the Yankees compare him to Ruth. He certainly wasn’t talking about stats. Icon status is based on fans. Its all about fans and their money. Show me one single link that puts Jeter’s playing value anywhere near $15M/year. Are you seriously stating that a .270 hitter is worth more than that? Close doesn’t think so…hence the baffled statement. And Cashman doesn’t. You are beyond reasoning when it comes to Jeter. Take your shot, but I’m done responding to your nonsense. No one can take you seriously anymore.
    ____________________________________________________________
    You are being awfully knee-jerk by referring to one year as the whole of what Jeter is. Of course icon status is based on what the player has done statistically as a Yankee as recently as the 2009 regular season, his number of hits, etc. and what he can still do. That iconic status includes a career .309/.377/.472/.850 playoff line among other things. How is Jeter’s career not based on stats? Although it is hard to take what you are saying seriously, so consider my question rhetorical.

  103. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    It will be interesting to see what direction the Yankees go with the pen. After Mo, and he is getting older so who knows when his performance will drop precipitously, there are so many question marks. Big year for Roberston and Joba coming up. Who are they really? And Logan, was he an aberration? After that. Who knows.

  104. yankeefeminista November 27th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
    It will be interesting to see what direction the Yankees go with the pen. After Mo, and he is getting older so who knows when his performance will drop precipitously, there are so many question marks. Big year for Roberston and Joba coming up. Who are they really? And Logan, was he an aberration? After that. Who knows.
    ____________________________________________________________
    Well, we can pull a 2009 and have some of the kids come out of the pen. Love that we have Brackman, Noesi, and even Betances perhaps for Sept. callup on the 40 man. It will be interesting to see who fills the other lefty role. I am thinking we will fill from outside. But could see ManBan after minor league season is over.

  105. West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    I’d love to see the young talent fill roles. Tough call for Yankees development people and Cashman, who they commit to being a starter and who they see as destined for the pen. Some choices are more obvious than others, i.e. ManBan.

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