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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


If not in New York, where?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

If the Derek Jeter contract negotiations have slipped beyond being a sure thing, where else could the Yankees captain land? There are teams in need of a shortstop, and there are teams with money to spend, but are any of them legitimate alternatives?

ALCS Rangers Yankees BaseballSan Francisco Giants
Let’s start with the team that’s mentioned most often. Edgar Rentaria and Juan Uribe are both free agents. The Giants need help on the left side of the infield, and clearly 2010 has given them reason to believe they can win in 2011. A veteran presence like Jeter could make a difference on a team like that, a perfect leader for the young guys and a respected presence for the veterans. Money, of course, is the issue.

St. Louis Cardinals
Brendan Ryan is a terrific defensive player, but he hit .223 with two home runs this season. The Cardinals need help in the infield, but they’re about to pay Albert Pujols a ton of money. In Chicago, Phil Rogers wonders if that actually means Jeter makes more sense for the Cardinals. If they decide they can’t re-sign Pujols, would the Cardinals consider Jeter an immediate solution at shortstop and a future solution at first base?

Minnesota Twins
There’s some buzz that JJ Hardy might be a non-tender candidate, and let’s face it, the Twins have been the same sort of can’t-get-over-the-hump team for the better part of a decade. Could they convince themselves that a guy like Jeter might make a difference?

Cincinnati Reds
Orlando Cabrera didn’t give them much this season, and Paul Janish isn’t the answer. Zack Cozart did hit 17 home runs in Triple-A this season, but that came with a .255 batting average.  After winning the NL Central this season, the Reds are surely hoping to contend again in 2011. It’s another team that might like the idea of Jeter’s presence, but might not be able — or willing — to pay for him.

Los Angeles Angels
Erick Aybar had a bad 2010, and Brandon Wood has never lived up to his lofty offensive potential.  The Angels have been willing to spend big money in the past, and they have some fairly significant contracts coming off the books after the 2011 season, which could help them pay for Jeter down the road. The Angels clearly want to be competitive again, and they need help in the infield.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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224 Responses to “If not in New York, where?”

  1. Wave Your Hat November 28th, 2010 at 9:11 am

    The Yanks are treating Derek better than they treated Andy back in the winter of 2009. Very few were on here whining about the unfeeling Yanks back then. Andy was offered 1 year for $5.5M, Jeter is offered 3/$45M.

    Jeter is 8 times better than Andy? Jeter contributed 800% more to the Yanks?

    I don’t think so.

  2. Yankee Trader November 28th, 2010 at 9:15 am

    I’m attaching an article that I posted yesterday for y’all to read and give some feedback, written by Gregg Doyle of CBSSportsline.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/s.....king-jeter

  3. blake November 28th, 2010 at 9:15 am

    They haven’t slipped beyond a sure thing. 100% chance Jeter is a Yankee next season.

  4. Yankee Trader November 28th, 2010 at 9:16 am

    “But let Jeter go, then miss the playoffs, and see what Yankees fans will think of H&H Steinbrenner.”

    If the Yankees don’t bolster the entire pitching staff, with or without Jeter, they could very well miss the playoffs.

    Cashman’s job is to field the best team within the budget the owners give him. If Jeter uses up most of the alloted monies, and the Yankees cannot fit all their needs within budget, then what will fans think of Jeter?

  5. 86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    I know they have to try and find an alternative for Jeter, but the Yanks’ offer of $ 45 M over three years has eliminated the market. Only with a truly low ball offer could the Yanks have created outside interest in Jeter, but that can’t happen now.

    There’s nothing wrong with the team taking a hard line stance on contracts. You can’t pursue Cliff Lee AND keep the payroll reasonably steady without doing so. Whether they tack on a personal services agreement or perhaps a 4th year option I don’t see this ending happily, but that’s show biz.

    The problem with Derek I’m sure is resentment that they signed Alex through age 42 and won’t take him to that age. While I agree with the sentiment, one lousy contract should not obligate you to continue the practice. It’s why arbitration is more responsible for salary explosion that free agency.

    Of course if I were the Yankees once the steroid thing came out I would have demanded another renegotiation. Too late now.

  6. Yogi Mantle November 28th, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Comparing apples and oranges with this, Wave. With Jeter being the captain, being a position player who rarely misses time, a leader on and off the field, and also no big connection to Roger Clemens and that whole mess.

    Plus, Andy is not talking about multiple year contracts.

    Combine that with fans feelings toward Jeter, while Andy has a big fanbase, anytime you look around the Stadium, you see tons of Jeter jerseys compared with just about any other player.

  7. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 9:28 am

    Repost:

    Randy-

    I thought GB made an excellent proposal on how to solve this Jeter thing the other day.

    It involved incentives and options.

    Both sides need to compromise to get this done.

    And both need to feel some pain in order to accomplish that.

    For Jeter it might mean taking a bit less initially in order to show that he’s still got it, and for the Yankees it might mean showing a willingness to see that by including extra incentives and options.

    I think that is the way forward.

    And I think it should be done soon behind closed doors.

  8. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Trader-

    I responded to you in the previous thread.

  9. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Saint-

    Same for you. response in previous thread.

  10. Yogi Mantle November 28th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    86w 183 – it might mean getting a little more creative in the negotiations with Jeter.

    I don’t think that Hal has quite the same emotional ties with Jeter that George would have had. The offer being made isn’t a bad one, but probably isn’t in the same range that it would have been under George.

    I don’t think the Yankees could have done much renegotiation with Alex’s contract. I would think that they looked at it, but there was no clause for PED use in it.

    I agree that the Yankees put the initial offering at a high enough level to make it tough for other clubs to get into the bidding for Jeter. Trouble is Jeter doesn’t quite see it that way. Damon’s negotiations look similar to what is going on with Jeter. The Player sees paycut, and lets emotions possibly drive this to where they take less rather than stay.

  11. Wave Your Hat November 28th, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Yogi Mantle-

    I’m not comparing apples to oranges. Andy was as important to the dynasty as Jeter was.

    You may fairly deduct significant points from Andy for time away, and grant Derek significant points for being a position player (and if you want to be fair, deduct significant points from Derek as well for 2010, but for purposes of this argument don’t if you don’t want to), but is Derek worth 8 times the contract Andy was offered?

  12. Rob_NY November 28th, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Another day of Derek Jeter. The only part that’s really interesting to me about this whole thing is how we as fans are lapping up the few actual pieces of information we have and are weaving them into some grand narrative. Derek Jeter is being “brushed aside and insulted” by being the highest paid SS in baseball? He’s not being “realistic about what he’s worth” because he is trying to negotiate the highest dollar possible when he’s dealing with an organization that’s KNOWN for overpaying just about everyone ? This stuff is pure narrative driven by the writers and the propaganda spit out by both parties to get us as fans tangled up in knots. It’s working.

    Jeter isn’t worth 25m or 4 years. He isn’t. But unfortunately the Yankees aren’t playing this game in a pure market economy. They have to satiate rabid Jeter fans like Randy et. al. and they also have to not shoot their own marketing team in the collective foot by telling one of their biggest marketing tools to take a hike. Obviously the Yankees are going to say “It’s all about baseball” and the Jeter camp is going to say “I’m a legend and that’s what counts out here.” but in the end those are just positions and they’re … negotiable.

  13. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 9:35 am

    “I don’t want ever want to see the Yankees resemble the Red Sox.

    If they do. I’m done as a fan. And many others will be too.”

    mtu-

    right now, yankee management is taking a page out of the the larry lucchino approach to dealing with players.

    the red sox don’t even let lucchino near any of their sensitive deals anymore.

    it takes a lot to snap the bond that ties a fan to a team, but it happens. i can remember following the ny football giants my whole life and then not. and i could care less what they do now. i don’t follow at all. same with the celtics. when bird, mc hale, and parish left and the weird ownership took over , i left and never came back.

    if yankee ownership/management chases jeter away, the yankees will lose some fans they will never get back. i’d come back, but i’d probably pull a yogi and make it conditional on a new management.

  14. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 9:38 am

    Randy-

    My answer on Lucchino is, “How’d that work out on Texeira ? “.

    ;)

  15. Wave Your Hat November 28th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    Just flying down to reality space for a second, how is offering Jeter a 3 year, $45M contract making the Yanks resemble the Red Sox? How much did the Red Sox offer old Heart and Soul last year, I forget?

  16. Yogi Mantle November 28th, 2010 at 9:43 am

    MTU, I do think that incentives are the way to go for both the Yankees and Jeter. Its not like they haven’t done it before where they add in incentives for certain goals.

    Of course any incentive goals have to be well thought out. Maybe accomplishment bonuses added in for milestones.

    With Lee negotiations coming up fairly soon, Jeter and Mo’s contract situations could impact how the Yankees proceed with it. Maybe that is part of what Jeter is counting on?

  17. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    Good morning, all –

    The only way this deal doesn’t happen, IMO, is if runaway emotions take hold over common sense. You can’t have a cut-off-my-nose-to-spite-my-face attitude, by either party. That’s just bad business, and I doubt either side would make that mistake. I really doubt it.

    If each side looks at is as the business process that it ultimately is, a deal will be done that works for everyone. And that’s the mark of a good deal.

    It’s only when people start treating business like a teenage dating game that things get screwy.

  18. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    WYH-

    For me. I was talking in general. Not specifically about Jeter.

  19. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Repost:

    ll the statistics and analysis about Jeter’s age and his comparative worth with other shortstops totally miss the point as far as I am concerned. The bottom line to me is this.

    Yankee management cares only about profits and the accumulation of wealth for their benefit. They don’t care about the fans or their players.This has been proven time and time again, whether it’s building a moat around the legend seats and denying kids access for an autograph, or the abysmal way they treated Bernie Williams and Joe Torre.

    Now they are doing it to Derek Jeter. The indisputable face of the franchise, a unanimous, first ballot Hall of Famer, a ballplayer whose legendary accomplishments are on a par with Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio and Mickey Mantle. A man whose integrity and professionalism has set the gold standard for athletes for generations to come.

    The Yankees are worth $1.6 billion dollars. In 2010 they led the major leagues in attendance and merchandise sales while posting $441 million dollars in revenues and $25 million in profits. Yet the dour, sullen, corporate duo of Hal and Hank have now decided to embrace a financial austerity campaign after years of doling out money by the truckloads to the likes of Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, Javier Vasquez, Randy Johnson, Ruben Sierra, Kei Igawa, AJ Burnett, Weaver, Wright and others.

    And Derek Jeter of all people has been chosen to be be the poster child for the Yankees new found frugality. And to make matters worse, to add insult to injury, he has been demeaned and insulted publicly by Levine, Hank, Hal and Cashman.

    The Yankees can pay Jeter. They are so wealthy it wouldn’t make a dent in their ability to compete on the field or continue to increase the value of their franchise. The YES network is a money printing machine, their stadium management company with Jerry Jones is flourishing, merchandise and ticket sales are through the roof and the new Stadium is providing revenues the likes of which have never been seen before in baseball.

    Yes, the Yankees can pay Jeter and they should. They are wrong for trashing him and trying to paint him into a corner with the objective of him capitulating and begin humiliated. You don’t do that to you most valued asset.

    They should give him a four year deal at $18 million dollars a year. And if they have to eat one year because Jeter can no longer compete, so be it. They can afford it. They ate $46 million just with Kei Igawa alone. And they are prepared to give Cliff Lee a six-year deal at $20 million plus. Does anyone really think a 32 year old pitcher with back and oblique problems is going to pitch 6 effective years for them?

    Pay the man.

  20. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Yogi-

    I really don’t care what each side is thinking as long as they realize that compromise is required, and that part of compromise is some pain on both sides.

    To me the gamesmanship on both sides is just BS !

  21. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    I can now say I’m officially Jeter-ed out.

    I won’t even hypothetically entertain Jeter leaving. I can’t.

    I’m tired of the pseudo-posturing here on Lohud, where it’s become us vs. them, when it’s not that simple. It always ends up going to the extreme – the Yankees are ogres/Jeter is being greedy and selfish. Again, not that simple.

    I can’t imagine there’s anything left to say, unless it’s to critique how Jeter will look in a different uniform. And I mean that literally, how would he look in red vs. orange vs. black vs. blue. Personally, I think Jeter’s color is aquamarine. ;)

    And I don’t think the Yankees have come anywhere near what the Red Sox do – laying ground work a year in advance about how ineffective a star player has become or how selfish they’re being, making it clear beyond a doubt they want to cut ties with the particular player. I don’t recall any of that being said by the Yankees with regard to Derek Jeter. With the possible exception of the statement that Jeter is free to see what the market offers (which I have no objection to), I don’t see that anything untoward was said. Jeter thinks the Yankees are undervaluing him; the Yankees think they’re being generous. It certainly depends upon your starting point and what you include in the valuation process, but I don’t think the Yankees are being CHEAP.

  22. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 9:50 am

    joe in long island-

    mariano is interesting how he stays down in the bullpen and waits to come into the contract game at the end.

    if i remember right he also did this when posada was having trouble signing his last contract.

    once the yankees have had an open fight with a key player, it’s very hard to then have another one right after.

    mariano waits and signs and picks up the easy save :)

  23. 86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    I think by and large the majority of the fans think that the Yankees’ reported offer is quite fair all things considered.

    Incentives that could vest a 4th year might make sense as would offering Derek an opt-out after 2011 if he returns to form but I don’t think either side wants to go through this twice.

    If/when you let sentiment and emotion get involved in negotiations you end up making costly mistakes. I give you Posada’s $ 13.1 for 2011 as people’s exhibit No. 1.

  24. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 9:51 am

    MTU, I’m with you. Save me a seat.

    But I still feel that this is just a part of the negotiating process. Frankly, I don’t think this is so much about the AAV. I think it’s about the years.

    Let me repeat that: I think it’s about the years.

    IMHO, Jeter wants to play – till 42 – just like ARod. I don’t think (and no, I don’t have any information to back this up – before some jerks on here jump all over me) he wants to leave this team BEFORE ARod.

    Or maybe he just wants more than 3 years, which a while reasonable offer to a 37 year old, may not be when you’re the 37 year old. I remember when I was younger watching basketball, saying that some of the Knicks were old, that they should get rid of them. Then I got to their age, and said, no they’re not old – just experienced or seasoned. LOL.

    Anyway, I don’t see SF, boston, California-Anaheim-LA-Whatever, Twinkies, or anyone else – except maybe the Mets – attempting an offer.

    A reasonable compromise would be to add years and dollars to the offer, so that it comes short of Jeter’s desired contract, and higher than the 3/45M reported by the Yankees.

    A couple days ago, I offered a solution: 2 years/50M.

  25. Wave Your Hat November 28th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    “But I still feel that this is just a part of the negotiating process. Frankly, I don’t think this is so much about the AAV. I think it’s about the years.”

    JMO, but the fact that the Yanks did not offer arbitration argues otherwise.

  26. 86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    West coast —-

    Make up your mind. You give us a lengthy lecture on why Jeter should be paid whatever he wants and then propose something that is WAY less than his widely reported asking price.

    So should they give him what he wants or not?

    More importantly just how high should the payroll go? $ 225 Million? $ 250 ??? $ 300?

  27. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 9:58 am

    randy – you know, I hadn’t thought of Mariano’s negotiations that way before, but that’s a good point. It sounds trivial, but I think there’s a lot to be said for doing things that way. Of course, it helps when you are still at the top of your game. It certainly has worked for him.

    Both sides will get it done, at whatever terms necessary, because it just makes too much sense. That’s one of the functions of professional representation, to make the best sense out of things, to take the emotion out of it. You can negotiate business terms, you can’t negotiate emotions.

  28. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 9:59 am

    86w I don’t believe I said they should pay Jeter whatever he wanted, not literally anyway. But in any regard, the dynamics of this have changed now, it’s far more ugly than I imagined it would be. Negotiations are fluid and positions have to change to get a deal done. I agree with what MTU said above about both sides being willing to negotiate.

  29. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    Happy Ground Hog Day, Part XX.

  30. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 10:03 am

    GB-

    At least that was funny !

  31. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    I also don’t think it’s just A-Rod’s contract that is sticking in Derek’s craw. What about A.J. Burnett and his $83 million dollar deal?

    According to the Elias Sports Bureau via the NYDN, Burnett was arguably the worst starting pitcher in baseball lin 2010 sporting a 5.26 ERA that ranked third worst in majors among qualifiers and a 14.51 base runners-per-nine innings percentage that ranked second-worst overall.

  32. Wave Your Hat November 28th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    WCYF-

    So what?

  33. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    I certainly hope a deal is done soon, and I hope he has a season that’s more like his season averages. Otherwise, many here will be lamenting this new contract.

    Will be interesting to see fan reaction should Jeter continue to decline. Also, does anyone remember if Jeter made any comments during Bernie’s last contract offer?

  34. upstate kate November 28th, 2010 at 10:05 am

    another day, another post filled w/ Jeter…I can’t wait until this contract is settled :(

  35. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    This thing with Jeter will have been settled “perfectly” when no one is completely happy with the result. ;)

  36. Tom in N.J. November 28th, 2010 at 10:06 am

    Yay.

    :neutral:

  37. Fran the original November 28th, 2010 at 10:08 am

    Good morning all.

    Kate, I am with you. Can’t wait until Jeter’s contract is resolved. Then we can get on to Cliff Lee :)

  38. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    MTU is right on the money, pun intended. A negotiation is successful when you have a signed deal and both parties are somewhat unhappy for not getting exactly what they wanted.

  39. Wave Your Hat November 28th, 2010 at 10:09 am

    I wouldn’t wait on Jeter to get Lee. The Yanks need to sign Lee.

  40. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Anyway…

    How bout that bullpen, hey folks? Any ideas on how to revamp? Only Mariano is a sure thing. Oh, wait a minute – he’s a free agent too. Ok, so should we give him his reported 2 year/36M contract? I say yes, and get it over with.

    That leaves Robertson, Joba, and Logan.

    I’d like to trade for a good setup man with closing experience, just in case…

    In case Mo retires. In case Joba stinks as a setup man. Just in case.

    Ardsma is my first trade choice. Fuentes is a lefty FA. Rauch is another option.

  41. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    WYH-

    Absolutely agree with you.

    Don’t want to whiff on Lee.

    I don’t think they will.

  42. pat November 28th, 2010 at 10:12 am

    Knee deep in yellow “journalism” again this morning and I don’t mean Chad.

  43. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Upstate Kate

    I agree, to me also it’s really just not really what you want the Yanks to be are talking about now. I read an article today that has Crawford either a Red Sox, Tiger, or Angel. If the Yanks get Lee, they still need a player like Crawford to solidy some gaps in the team that plays everyday. I just don’t feel like the way it’s started that it’s going to be a great winter for ther Yanks.

  44. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    “i can remember following the ny football giants my whole life and then not. and i could care less what they do now. i don’t follow at all. same with the celtics. when bird, mc hale, and parish left and the weird ownership took over , i left and never came back.”

    I too was a die hard NY Giants fan. My dad had season tickets to the old stadium, section 38 in left field. By the time I was about 11, I was going to the games with my dad and his friends fairly regularly. Do the names Ron Johnson, Joe Morrison and number 1 draft pick Rocky Thompson ring any bells? How about Pete Athas and the late great Carl “Spider” Lockhart? Before the glory days of LT there was a linebacker named Jim Files and a lineman named John Mendenhall and a defensive end that went on to Hollywood, Fred Dryer. I was a rabid football fan all through high school but by college the game – and I – had changed. The team had moved to the Yale Bowl and then Jersey and by then I had come back to baseball, my first love and the only game I ever played outside of basketball. Even the glory days of Phil Simms didn’t get me back to stay, although I did pay more attention off and on.

    That brings me to the Knicks. I was even more rabid about the Knicks than the Giants, but then my favorites (Walt Frazier, Willis Reed) left or retired and soon enough the sport itself descended into a contrived and obnoxious culture that completely turned me off. The team fell apart and has been relevant only at times since. I never fell under the spell of Michael Jordan, Magic, Shaq or Kobe and King James to me is a rich, gifted clown. It would take an amazing Knicks team, like the ’69 Knicks, to get me back.

    My breaking point with the Yankees came in the CBS years of futility, post Mantle, pre-Steinbrenner, Billie, Reggie and Thurman. I followed the Mets in those years because they were fun and, for a time, a better ball club. I was a fanatic on and off through the 80s and early 90s, but in the strike year of 94 I became monogamous again with the pinstripes. I will stay a Yankee fan unless a dark age like the CBS years descends upon the Bronx again. Not winning it all is one thing. Not having a clue or a care is another.

    The Jeter thing is not about lacking a clue or a care. It may in fact be the most un-CBS-like thing that Cashman has ever done.

  45. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 10:13 am

    Saint-

    Sherrill might be an interesting possibility as a lefty specialist.

    I think his splits against them are good.

    He is coming off a bad year in general and might be inexpensive.

  46. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:15 am

    “A trial lawyer once told me something that I found interesting.

    When the facts are on your side, you argue the facts. When you don’t have the facts, you go with emotions.”

    ————————————

    Joe in LI,

    You posted this yesterday. I really thought it was an interesting application to these negotiations.

    And I believe we all know which side of the coin the pro-Yankee and pro-Jeter people fall on.

  47. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    “The Yanks need to sign Lee.” shows what a colossal failure yankee management has had in developing pitching considering the focus and amount of money put into the farm system.

    there still is no “yankee way” in place. still hit or miss.

    unless of course,, you count signing lee as the “yankee way”.

  48. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Joe,

    It is one of the simplest things said this entire time we have been talking about Jeter, yet completely drives the point home.

  49. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Murphy, like you a long time Giants fan that lives, eats and breathes Giants football. Make or break game today and I don’t think they are the lock many think they are for the win. Whats your take on today?

  50. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    MTU, I thought about Sherrill, but you’re right, he did have a bad year.

    So we need 2 pieces: a lefty specialist, most likely a veteran type, and an 8th inning setup man. While I liked Kerry Wood, and thought he did great, I’m wary of him due to his injury reputation. Sign him to a 2 year deal and he turns into another Steve Karsay/Damaso Marte.

  51. Carlo November 28th, 2010 at 10:18 am

    For all the talk about Jeter, one would think Jeter is our top priority this offseason. I can honestly say that jeter is 4th in my pecking order of importance this offseason with Lee, Mariano, and Andy coming ahead of him in that order.

  52. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Gary:

    Manning has to avoid mistakes and they have to finish strong, stay in gear the whole game. They can’t lose focus just because it’s a game they are supposed to win.

  53. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 10:20 am

    The Yankees aren’t waiting on Jeter to sign Lee. They are waiting on Lee. It’s not like Cashman can camp out in Lee’s living room, looking at his watch and tapping his foot impatiently. Supposedly, Lee has representatives from 3 other teams that want to talk with him over the next week, making a total of 6 teams…Texas, NYYs, Boston, LA Angels, Detroit and Cubs.

  54. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    I am curious if any of the many Yankee fans that object to giving Derek Jeter the number of years he wants at his age feel the same way about Cliff Lee. And if not, why not.

    It will probably take a 6 years deal to bag Cliff Lee, a pitcher who at 32 has had issues with his obliques and back. Do you think that the Yankees will get a full 6 years of an effective Cliff Lee? Or is it more likely that they know that they are paying for 6 to get 4 and are ok with that because they are the Yankees and they can.

  55. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Armageddon:

    Jeter refuses a ‘sub-standard contract’ and retires, a la Bernie.
    Andy retires (he’s always just about there anyway)
    Mariano retires
    Posada says, heck with it – I retire.

  56. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:21 am

    randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 10:16 am
    “The Yanks need to sign Lee.” shows what a colossal failure yankee management has had in developing pitching considering the focus and amount of money put into the farm system.

    there still is no “yankee way” in place. still hit or miss.

    unless of course,, you count signing lee as the “yankee way”.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    The Yanks are totally hostage to Lee. I see even if they get Lee the impact to their ability to correct, strengthen, or improve the team (pick any word you want) suffers greatly and then if Lee has an off year wow look out.

  57. 86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 10:22 am

    DaSaint 007 —

    It is NEVER about the years it is ALWAYS about the money.

    Put it this way. Offer Jeter $ 75 Million for 3 years or $ 90 Million for 6 and see how long it takes him to take the higher salary and lesser year.

    WCYF —

    I’m sorry if I misunderstood, but to me “Pay the Man” means give him what he wants.

    What is wrong with some dose of fiscal sanity here? I see no reason for the Yankees to compromise on what is obviously a way above market offer. In what other business do you make a habit of bidding against yourself?

  58. Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Paying for 6 to get 4 is better than paying for 4 and getting 1 or 2.

  59. Vineyard Yankee November 28th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    Does anyone else think that the protracted Jeter negotiations are holding the Yankees back from putting an offer in front of Cliff Lee ?

    I tend to think so in that a huge offer to Lee will make Jeter say, what about me ?

  60. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:24 am

    86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 10:22 am
    DaSaint 007 —

    It is NEVER about the years it is ALWAYS about the money.

    Put it this way. Offer Jeter $ 75 Million for 3 years or $ 90 Million for 6 and see how long it takes him to take the higher salary and lesser year.
    ———————————
    Really, then offer him 2 years and $50 million.

  61. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:20 am
    Gary:

    Manning has to avoid mistakes and they have to finish strong, stay in gear the whole game. They can’t lose focus just because it’s a game they are supposed to win.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    I agree when bad Eli shows up it’s Kati bar the door. They can’t let Drew run on them and they need pressure on the QB to stop what hasn’t been a bad Jac passing game. I’d like to see our running game be a POSITIVE factor in the game. A start like in the Seattle game would be nice.

  62. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Morning Sarge.

  63. Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Lee is dictating the timing of his negotiations and it has no bearing on Jeter’s negotiations.

  64. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    “Yet the dour, sullen, corporate duo of Hal and Hank have now decided to embrace a financial austerity campaign after years of doling out money by the truckloads to the likes of Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, Javier Vasquez, Randy Johnson, Ruben Sierra, Kei Igawa, AJ Burnett, Weaver, Wright and others.

    And Derek Jeter of all people has been chosen to be be the poster child for the Yankees new found frugality. And to make matters worse, to add insult to injury, he has been demeaned and insulted publicly by Levine, Hank, Hal and Cashman.”

    —————————

    This whole well running dry narrative has really taken a life of its own despite it really have no application whatsoever to these Jeter negotiations.

    Those players were all paid that money with the hope/expectations they would live up to that money. The Yankees didn’t say hey look Carl Pavano, lets overpay him a bunch of money, because he is Carl Pavano.

    As financially reckless as George was he never paid a player just for the sake of it.

    Therefore, in that regard it is actually the OPPOSITE. The Yankees are indeed changing the way of doing business. They are paying Jeter above what they hope and expect on the field.

    Nor in reality is Jeter the poster child for anything. The past few years has led Cashman and Hal to attempt to sign the right players. They new Yankee way is to be more responsible with their money with more realistic hopes and expectations of how the players they pay will perform.

    In any event to even grant the premise that the well is running dry and the Yankees should throw truckloads of money at Jeter because they threw truckloads at those players.

    Those investments resulted in no championships in 10 years.

    There was a lot more whining and complaining from Yankee fans the past 10 years than what has gone on with this Jeter negotiation.

    So, why should the Yankees continue to repeat past mistakes and spend their money recklessly when they know how that turned out already?

  65. pat November 28th, 2010 at 10:26 am

    I object to giving Cliff Lee a contract until he is 42.

  66. blake November 28th, 2010 at 10:27 am

    I think all of this is ultimately about taking another step in getting rid of the “yankee tax”. If the Yankees can play hardball with Jeter or have it perceived that way then it sends a message to the agents that they will do it with anyone. At the end of the day, the Yanks will send that message, Jeter will get a good deal, life will go on, and they should have a real good shot at# 28 next year.

  67. Fran the original November 28th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    It’s not like Cashman can camp out in Lee’s living room, looking at his watch and tapping his foot impatiently.
    **************************
    GB,

    Why not? ;)

    I think that there will be some movement on Cliff Lee at the winter meetings. IMO there are only 2 serious suitors-Yanks and Texas.

  68. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:21 am
    Armageddon:

    Jeter refuses a ’sub-standard contract’ and retires, a la Bernie.
    Andy retires (he’s always just about there anyway)
    Mariano retires
    Posada says, heck with it – I retire.

    ________________________________________________________________________

    Well the core four is just about done, just now a matter of time, but not this year. I see the 4 being two probably after this year. I don’t see either Andy or Posada really in the mix past this year.

  69. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Blake-

    Bingo !

    Great post. You Da Man !

    Can I have your autograph ?

    :)

  70. Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Listening to Jim Duquette on XM Radio now I can see why he’s not a MLB GM.

  71. Vineyard Yankee November 28th, 2010 at 10:29 am

    GB:

    So what precludes the Yankees from putting an offer on the table while Lee talks to these other teams ? Much like the CC offer where they went at him high and hard right out of the gate.

  72. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:30 am

    “A trial lawyer once told me something that I found interesting.

    When the facts are on your side, you argue the facts. When you don’t have the facts, you go with emotions.”

    A slightly different take on that is: when the facts are against you, argue the law. When the law is against you, argue the facts. When you have neither, abuse the plaintiff. In law, getting emotional is the third and last option. It’s the last resort of the rogue. That’s because it’s the least likely tactic to withstand logical scrutiny. In other words, the winning question appears to be: what have you (Jeter) done for me lately?

  73. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    morning, Simon. Hope all is well. Has Cashman been to see you to get Simon, Jr. signed on the dotted line? He’s needs to get this done. It’s almost Christmas and 2030 is just around the corner and I’m getting tired of him dragging his feet on this.

  74. tk November 28th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    “there still is no ?yankee way? in place.”

    Randy–I saw you mention this before and wanted to ask you about it. I know the Twins are regarded as having a specific way of drafting/developing young pitchers that will consistently throw strikes. However, I couldn’t really think of other examples. So I was curious about that and what you think the advantages/disadvantages are of having such a regimented structure in place. I’m sure consistency would be beneficial for a young pitcher, but maybe the Yankees financial strength and ability to sign elite free agent pitchers who have unique styles changes the equation somewhat?

  75. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:32 am

    Gary:

    “I’d like to see our running game be a POSITIVE factor in the game. A start like in the Seattle game would be nice.”

    Bradshaw out, Jacobs in. Lets see what happens.

  76. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Good point LGY. Signing Jeter doesn’t guarantee a WS. The Yankees have changed their business model slightly, as evidenced by smarter trades overall for cost-effective players in their prime: Swisher and Granderson come to mind.

    And the origins of this new-style negotiations with FA started with Andy, continued with Bernie, followed by Damon and Matsui, and now Jeter.

    As far as Lee is concerned, like any ‘fan’ I’d love to see him in pinstripes. But I’m not paying more AAV than I paid CC, nor am I offering more than 4 years.

  77. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    LGY – “The past few years has led Cashman and Hal to attempt to sign the right players”.

    **************

    Like Javier Vazquez, AJ Burnett, Nick Johnson and Randy Winn to the tune of $36 million or so a year?

  78. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:25 am
    Lee is dictating the timing of his negotiations and it has no bearing on Jeter’s negotiations.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    He sure is, talk about died and went to Heaven that’s Lee’s position. My concern is that Lee doesn’t really want to come to the Big Apple and is using the Yanks as a bargaining chip just like Seattle did this year. He can use the offer to drive up the price and then go where ever he wants to.

    Jeter is a sidebar. Derek will be a Yankee next year.

  79. austinmac November 28th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    I guess the Yankees are being criticized now because all they care about is winning. That has a familiar ring.

  80. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:35 am

    murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:32 am
    Gary:

    “I’d like to see our running game be a POSITIVE factor in the game. A start like in the Seattle game would be nice.”

    Bradshaw out, Jacobs in. Lets see what happens.

    ________________________________________________________________________

    I’m behind as I have company for the Holidays, what happened to Bradshaw?

  81. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Gary:

    Fumble-itis. Can’t hold onto the ball.

  82. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:38 am

    What is Jeter, like the 8th poster child for the “new” style?

  83. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    Simon Jr. has an audition scheduled. Cashman promises to be there as long as his pinstriped powerchair is charged up.

  84. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    The Lee situation is extremely different. You have competition for services there. So far, no competition for Jeter’s services. The competition forces the higher bids. It’s never smart to bid against yourself (the Yankees seem to be making an honest effort to stop doing this).

    Also, yeah, no one WANTS to give Lee more than 4 or 5 years. But he is more than a luxury “get” at this point for the Yankees, so they’ll end up giving him more than he wants.

    As far as the system failing, it takes time for the system to reboot. I’d rather them not rush anymore arms up – as long as it takes, it takes. Joba was a casualty of rushing the arms for a need. And Joba was also a casualty of Joba.

  85. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 10:37 am
    Gary:

    Fumble-itis. Can’t hold onto the ball.

    _______________________________________________________________________

    I agree with that, I thought I missed another injury. Maybe they are going to let Ware show what he can do.

  86. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:39 am

    It amazes me people can say look how they treated Torre or Bernie and then in the very next sentence say the well is running dry and Jeter is the poster child.

  87. Yogi Mantle November 28th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    I think the Yankees are waiting for offers to go to Lee first, rather than them putting out the huge offer like they did with CC. I’m sure they have a range in mind, but why bid against themselves when the need for Lee isn’t quite as high as it was for getting CC?

    I don’t really think that the RS will go hard after Lee. They have a lot of other holes to fill and have a number of starters, even if they aren’t of the caliber of Lee.

    I see the Angels being a possible, especially since they had a poor year last season. The Rangers might very well be behind the Angels in what they can offer Lee. The Cubs might play for his services, but I’d rank them 4th.

    I see this negotiation for Lee being between the Angels and the Yankees. Detroit is spending some money, but with what they have already spent along with the economy in Detroit, I just don’t see it.

  88. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Fran the original November 28th, 2010 at 10:28 am
    It’s not like Cashman can camp out in Lee’s living room, looking at his watch and tapping his foot impatiently.
    **************************
    GB,

    Why not?

    I think that there will be some movement on Cliff Lee at the winter meetings. IMO there are only 2 serious suitors-Yanks and Texas.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Morning, Fran. Hope you and your family had a great Thanksgiving holiday. I can’t imagine Mrs. Lee’s maid would be happy having to vacuum around Cashman’s feet for 3 weeks.

    Apparently Cashman and company has already made a pitch, and just guessing, asked Lee to keep them updated and allow them the chance to best any deal. That seems to be his usual way of operating on FAs that he wants. In no way is he sitting still. Most families don’t want any outsiders interrupting family holidays. Can’t count Schilling in that group. He’s never been normal anyway.

  89. Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    “He sure is, talk about died and went to Heaven that’s Lee’s position. My concern is that Lee doesn’t really want to come to the Big Apple and is using the Yanks as a bargaining chip just like Seattle did this year. He can use the offer to drive up the price and then go where ever he wants to.”

    You do realize that most of top free agents don’t sign until the Winter Meetings or even them. Just look at CC and Tex.

  90. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 10:42 am

    LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:39 am
    It amazes me people can say look how they treated Torre or Bernie and then in the very next sentence say the well is running dry and Jeter is the poster child.

    _______________________________________________________________________
    You left out Donny and Mel as some other benefactors

  91. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 10:45 am

    DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 10:39 am
    Simon Jr. has an audition scheduled. Cashman promises to be there as long as his pinstriped powerchair is charged up.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Great deal, Simon. Just don’t allow Cashman to embarrass the kid with a lowball offer.

  92. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Yogi Mantle, GB 7

    totally agree. Cashman already met with the Lees and I believe at that time probably indicated that the Yankees are interested, and when they’ve fielded offers elsewhere, let the Yankees know what’s what. Cashman does not want to get involved in a bidding war. No need to set the market there. And no need to encourage non-serious contenders to get the price up more than it’s going to go anyway.

  93. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 10:47 am

    LGY – thanks, wish I could claim credit. Sometimes, simplicity is best.

    randy – so what? If the Cards should sign ole Cliffie, does that indict the Cards’ farm system, and Dave Duncan? Of course not. Why is going after the best FA pitcher on the market necessarily a sign of failure and defeat?

    Now, I’m not going to argue that the Yanks’ system of pitcher development is foolproof. Of course it isn’t. But, it has produced it’s share of successes – Pettitte, Mariano, and more recently Hughes, Robertson, Joba, Kennedy, Coke. For sure, not all of them are lighting it up in the majors, or on the Yanks, but they all are in the majors, more than can be said for a lot of guys. So, we have to give those players and their teachers some credit.

    Going back in time, we can see that that’s how it’s always been, blending your own with those acquired by signings or trade. Pennock, Ruffing, Turley, Hunter, Key, Wells, Cone,….for every Ford, Stottlemyre, Downing…..

    Yeah, they are looking at Lee, just like they did with CC and AJ (most recent examples) because they’ve had a prolonged gap in developing pitchers. They might be coming out of that hole with Phil, and in next couple years with Brackman, Banueolos, Betances, Phelps, etc.

    But that’s they way it happens to be. Would it be better if they had grown more of their own? I guess. The Steinbrenners would sure love it. They’d get to keep more of their profits. It would be cool to root for them, like I’m rooting for Hughes. And, I guess for purists among us, among whom I count you, bless your little heart, it definitely brings good karma. But for me? I’m less hepped up about it. The W’s do it more for me.

  94. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Jeter ……………………………… I just can’t stand hearing or talking about this subject any more.

    If he takes the Yankees offer good, if not goodbye and good luck.

  95. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:48 am

    “Like Javier Vazquez, AJ Burnett, Nick Johnson and Randy Winn to the tune of $36 million or so a year?”

    ———————-

    What is your point?

    They didn’t sign or trade for those guys just for the sake of throwing money away.

    There was actual logic behind acquiring all those players and the amount of money it took to get them like market forces.

    Just giving Jeter extra money above and beyond the market value (which they already are doing) is just tossing money away.

    Jeter is not a friggin charity case.

    The man has made over $200 million in his career from the Yankees plus countless endorsements.

  96. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    For one of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy to turn into a successful starter for the Yankees is and will be a success.

    If just one of Banuelos, Brackman, and Betances pan out in the rotation then it will be a success as well.

  97. Fran the original November 28th, 2010 at 10:51 am

    The Lee situation is extremely different. You have competition for services there. So far, no competition for Jeter’s services.
    ****************
    MorningPerson,

    If there was one other serious offer, that might force the Yanks to increase their offer and there would be some movement. But as it stands now, the Yanks offer is the “best” one out there.

  98. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 November 28th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....T9iMooroXP

    Some words from Tino: “It’s making it seem like he is greedy, Martinez said of the public opinion. “He is not being greedy. He is going through a baseball negotiation like everybody else. It’s made him look like he doesn’t know what’s happening in the real world, and he is not like that.
    “This guy gives millions to charity. He is only going through a baseball negotiation and for people to think he is greedy, that bothers me. Derek is my friend, and I would say the same thing about Andy Pettitte and Mariano Rivera. They all are quality people”

    Also Damon is hilarious: “But what a lot of people forget is that guys like me and Jeter, we came out at the same time and we are special players” Looks like Johnny is lobbying for a new contract lol. Say what you want about jeter but I think I would pass out if the words “im a special player” actually came from HIS mouth.

    ]

  99. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    My point LGY is that the Yankees have historically thrown tens of millions of good dollars after bad. They are the wrong team to suddenly have a come to Jesus moment with a player of the stature of Derek Jeter.

    I understand the sentiment like yours on the other side, I just see it differently for the reasons I have tried to outline.

  100. Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:54 am

    WCYF,

    When should the Yankees start then?

  101. Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    WCYF,

    Or do you think the Yankees should continue to throw tens of millions of good dollars after bad?

  102. Fran the original November 28th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    GB,

    LOL. Hope you and your family had a great holiday as well.

    I think that you are right about Cashman keeping in touch and getting the last chance to top any offer which I am sure the Yanks could and probably would do.

  103. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    Al-

    Good morning.

    This global cooling is just killing the climate in Utah.

    And I hear that the price of tea in China is going down.

    :)

  104. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:56 am

    So with the benefit of hindsight a lot of the money they spent were poor investments.

    So no they should just cut out all that hindsight and just make bad investments from the start?

    A Jesus moment is just another way of saying poster child and Jeter is most definitely not the first.

  105. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 10:57 am

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 10:46 am
    Yogi Mantle, GB 7

    totally agree. Cashman already met with the Lees and I believe at that time probably indicated that the Yankees are interested, and when they’ve fielded offers elsewhere, let the Yankees know what’s what. Cashman does not want to get involved in a bidding war. No need to set the market there. And no need to encourage non-serious contenders to get the price up more than it’s going to go anyway.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Yeah, MP, not sure if he made an actuall monetary offer or not, but I’d think they both laid out the generalities, but, Cashman seems to go face to face with the families and show the wife in particular what the housing, shopping and schools are like in the area.

    Add in what the Yankees do for the familes and in Mrs’ Lee’s case, add a spit shield to protect her from the ruffians around her, as well as ear buds to allow her to listen to John and Suzyn instead of the surrounding vulgar thugs.

  106. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Al-

    And by the way, I watched the DVD yesterday
    and it was just fricken awesome !!!

    Seeing all that old footage was just amazing.

    Thanks so much.

    :)

  107. Tar November 28th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    “They didn’t sign or trade for those guys just for the sake of throwing money away”

    This is a perfect example of the arrogance of some of you on the dark side.

    Paying Jeter is analogous to throwing away money.

    I think as penance you should have a year of Julio Lugo.

  108. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:02 am

    MTU -

    Good morning. That cold snap out by you has reached us, but, just for a couple of days. Where the hell is that global warming when you need it. Glad I got most of my outside work done yesterday. Glad you didn’t have to go postal and got the package.

  109. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Crawdaddy November 28th, 2010 at 10:55 am

    WCYF, Or do you think the Yankees should continue to throw tens of millions of good dollars after bad?

    ****************

    I don’t believe Jeter’s career is anywhere near over. You don’t do it with Derek Jeter.

  110. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    LGY November 28th, 2010 at 10:51 am
    For one of Hughes, Joba, and Kennedy to turn into a successful starter for the Yankees is and will be a success.

    If just one of Banuelos, Brackman, and Betances pan out in the rotation then it will be a success as well.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    It seems a little early to decide that Chamberlain won’t be a very successful pitdher, whether starter or reliever, don’t you think?

  111. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    I’m glad to see Tino and Damon speaking out. I’d like to see the same for others.

  112. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Nick Johnson, Randy Winn and Javy Vazquez were not long-term signings. They were signed to fill an immediate need for the short term and at a relatively conservative cost. AJ Burnett cost them an extra year because there was legitimate competition for his services, and there was a need for another quality pitcher in the rotation.

    BTW, if they sign Jeter for “whatever he’s asking,” wouldn’t you expect even more Randy Winn-type signings, or for the bench to be populated largely by prospects?

  113. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Nick Johnson, Randy Winn and Javy Vazquez were not long-term signings. They were signed to fill an immediate need for the short term and at a relatively conservative cost. AJ Burnett cost them an extra year because there was legitimate competition for his services, and there was a need for another quality pitcher in the rotation.

    BTW, if they sign Jeter for “whatever he’s asking,” wouldn’t you expect even more Randy Winn-type signings, or for the bench to be populated largely by prospects?

  114. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:05 am

    Al-

    Looks like Alaska out here. We just got another
    dusting but it’s way too cold.

    Does look pretty though. That’s the upside.

    :)

  115. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    “It seems a little early to decide that Chamberlain won’t be a very successful pitdher, whether starter or reliever, don’t you think?”

    ——————–

    Clearly you are not following the logic.

    If just one of those 3 pans out in the rotation it is a success. So far it is a success because of Hughes.

    If Joba pans out as well it will be upgraded to great success.

  116. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:08 am

    MTU, how will you be able to allow your pet snake food outside? One snow flake falls on them and they’ll be covered until next spring.

  117. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 11:09 am

    “This is a perfect example of the arrogance of some of you on the dark side.

    Paying Jeter is analogous to throwing away money. ”

    ——————–

    No.

    Paying Jeter way above his market value or above the very generous 3/45 offer is analogous to throwing money away.

    Paying Jeter for an extra year just for the sake of it because of who he is, as many are advocating, is analogous to throwing money away.

  118. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    MTU -

    You got snow? Wow, not that bad here. It dropped into the upper 20′s overnight, but, will be back to mid 50′s by afternoon. I didn’t think it got that cold out by you, shows I still don’t know nothing.

    My oldest son is hunting in PA, and they had 3″ of snow, but, the hunters like that, easier to track the deer. I get cold just thinking of the winters I lived through in NE PA.

  119. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:10 am

    GB-

    They’re tougher than you think.

    Not just the simple dustmops you seem to think they are.

    Never got the e-mail from Chad.

    Wonder why ?

  120. pat November 28th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    “I?m glad to see Tino and Damon speaking out. I?d like to see the same for others.”

    Negotiating through the media is a no-no.

  121. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    With just over 3 years in the majors, Chamberlain has been fairly successful in a number of differnt roles. He’;s had great success and he’s been less than satisfactory, so, overall he’s been about average, given his age and experience…minor and major. Who’s the next target on your hit list?

  122. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:14 am

    MTU -

    I think drawing the line at Shih Tzu insults is where we have to be united.

    GB7 -
    After reading through some threads last night, I don’t know how you can continue to carry on a conversation with some of these folks. Having a difference of opinion is fine, but some just enjoy going after you on a personal note, which is where I draw the line.

  123. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Al-

    We usually get several cold snaps each season sometimes accompanied by snow.

    Rare to get more than a few inches and it usually doesn’t stay on the ground for very
    long.

    On the other hand, a 60 degree day in the middle of Winter isn’t uncommon either.

    Why am I getting this image of “The Deer Hunter” in my mind ?

  124. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    That’s not negotiating.

  125. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    blake November 28th, 2010 at 10:27 am
    I think all of this is ultimately about taking another step in getting rid of the “yankee tax”. If the Yankees can play hardball with Jeter or have it perceived that way then it sends a message to the agents that they will do it with anyone. At the end of the day, the Yanks will send that message, Jeter will get a good deal, life will go on, and they should have a real good shot at# 28 next year.

    ******

    Nice theory but do you think the Yankees can get Cliff Lee at fair market value or will they be forced to pay a Yankee tax to bring him aboard?

    Then this whole hardline stance towards Jeter is undone and the Yankee tax remains in full effect.

    I think there’s more to it than this.

    I’m starting to lean towards Jeter leaving the Yankees. This feels a great deal like Torre.

  126. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 11:15 am

    “I saw you mention this before and wanted to ask you about it. I know the Twins are regarded as having a specific way of drafting/developing young pitchers that will consistently throw strikes. However, I couldn’t really think of other examples.”

    tk-

    the twins teach trowing strikes, the braves under mazzone emphasized throwing a lot and being a little tired all the time losing some velocity but gaining control which allowed them to expand the strike zone.

    the old orioles under bamberger also emphasized throwing a lot. all those 20 game winners were in a system that had them throwing much more than is done now. i think bamberger got it from john sain.

    if you ask any oriole coach they will tell you that stopping using the “oriole way” was the downfall of that organization.

    the yankees should develop an approach that is theirs that works and then make sure it it taught at every level of the organization.

  127. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    MTU -

    Maybe GB7 doesn’t know, Shih Tzu’s are from Tibet, and where kings of of the giant snow storms.

  128. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    “With just over 3 years in the majors, Chamberlain has been fairly successful in a number of differnt roles. He’;s had great success and he’s been less than satisfactory, so, overall he’s been about average, given his age and experience…minor and major. Who’s the next target on your hit list?”

    —————————————–

    The efforts you take to try to misshape or misrepresent a point I make to try to make me look stupid are really hilarious at times.

    What a ridiculous interpretation of what I said :lol:

  129. yankee21 November 28th, 2010 at 11:17 am

    Then again is what Tino saying all that surprising regarding his former teammate? These guys will rarely, if ever, throw another player under the bus,, especially with respect to contract negotiation issues…

    Gives millions to charity? By the way how is that relevant to what Jeter is/isn’t asking for?

  130. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:10 am
    GB-

    They’re tougher than you think.

    Not just the simple dustmops you seem to think they are.

    Never got the e-mail from Chad.

    Wonder why ?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I assume that Chad doesn’t like one of us, and since it can’t possibly be me…..

  131. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Al-

    Or maybe GB just doesn’t give a Shih Tzu ?

    :)

  132. Tar November 28th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    “Paying Jeter for an extra year just for the sake of it because of who he is, as many are advocating, is analogous to throwing money away.”

    After all the countless post on why some of us think he should be paid more, that is the best you can come up with?

    Take your head out of (the sand) and at least admit there is an argument for Jeter getting what he is worth and deserves. As seen by a lot of lifelong passionate Yankee fans.

    Lugo with a half year of Adam Everitt for good measure.

    Keep it up there, that free agent SS list is long with possibilities.

  133. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 November 28th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    I think Tino was just speaking out to remind everyone that this is the standard process of negotiating, which has been difficult to swallow at times because the majority of us thought it would be different between jeter and the yankees ( or atleast kept behind closed doors)

    Damon’s quotes were just amusing :)

  134. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:19 am

    GB-

    Oh well. Guess you can’t please everyone.

    :)

  135. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    The efforts you take to try to misshape or misrepresent a point I make to try to make me look stupid are really hilarious at times.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You don’t need much help

  136. pat November 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    If there is anything of substance on Cashman’s visit to AJ in Olneys column can someone who is an Insider please share?

  137. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    Though Ian Kennedy is not pitching for the Yankees, he IS pitching in the major leagues, and he did net (along with Coke and Jackson) a Curtis Granderson (jury out for some, I understand). So, there’s also that.

  138. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    MTU -

    Last winter was the worst they experienced in NC in 70 years. We had an 8″ snow storm one day, and by 9:30 in the morning it was melted, and back to 60 degrees. That’s my kind of bad weather.

  139. yankee21 November 28th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Chad, is it possible that you can you conduct a poll on where the bloggers stand with respect to Jeter and his demands?

    I have been reading this blog for several years and this may quite be possibly the most controversial subject, short of the Arod and his PED scandal, to hit this forum…

    Everyone is repeating the same d thing over and over again. Nobody is going to change their mind based on repetitive arguments couched in different terminology.

  140. JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    GB7, AGREE on Joba. One thing i wonder about with him: could he be the same as A.J. in that he thinks too much instead of just pitching?

  141. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 11:21 am

    GB7,

    I’ll try to keep it simple next time so you can keep up :lol:

  142. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    “Take your head out of (the sand) and at least admit there is an argument for Jeter getting what he is worth and deserves. As seen by a lot of lifelong passionate Yankee fans. ”

    ———————————-

    I completely agree.

    But, why are you arguing my point? I thought you were on the other side.

  143. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    The Twins are a good team. But when was the last time they won a championship?

  144. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:23 am

    BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:14 am
    MTU -

    I think drawing the line at Shih Tzu insults is where we have to be united.

    GB7 -
    After reading through some threads last night, I don’t know how you can continue to carry on a conversation with some of these folks. Having a difference of opinion is fine, but some just enjoy going after you on a personal note, which is where I draw the line.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    AL. I don’t give a rat’s behind what they think about me or say…as long as they leave family out of it. I’m well aware that I can be an ass, but, then, I have no trouble admitting that. They can’t admit that they are.

  145. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    The Yankees started hard-lining their stars with Williams/Boras, then they did it to Torre and they would have knee-capped A-Rod/Boras for the opt-out, but for Hank. Jeter is about the 4th guy to get this treatment from Cash.

    There’s a pattern of “payback” for prior brass knuckle negotiating wins.

    Cash was ready to give the gate to two Boras clients who, the thinking could have been, already got over on the Yankees in prior salary negotiations. A-Rod(Boras) already had his mega-deal and the “opt out” was seen by Cash as violating the Pig Rule, going back for more, this time from the Yankees, who were only paying a part of his Texas salary. Williams(Boras) essentially beat the Yankees in 1998 for big big bucks with Boras’ patented (fake?) “unnamed other teams are interested.” According to all the Dynasty books, Torre was a master manipulator. His “Saint Joe” image was played to perfection in re-negotiating. When Torre’s leverage was diminished, he got a fact based contract and left, insulted.

    Jeter and Close beat the Yankees in arbitration years ago, much to the Yankees’ chagrin, and the just-expired contract was a max effort on the Yankees’ part to retain Jeter.

    Cash seems to be saying that if a party had the leverage to force the team to go all out, fine. But when the shoe is on the other foot, he seems to be saying, he’ll wield his leverage just like they did. Take it or leave it.

    Interestingly, the man with the institutional memory here – and the thirst for settling the score – seems to be Cash. I don’t think Hank, Hal and Levine were around consistently for the last ten years, and the old man is gone.

    And Memo to Tino: If you are not going to toe the company line on Jeter because you’re his friend, you’re going to find yourself somebody else’s special assistant.

  146. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Since we’re seeing so many comparisons between the Arod and Jeter negotiations and given their similar age and how often they’re the subject of in-fighting among fans…

    I’d be curious to know who between Jeter and Arod fans think will remain productive in MLB longer and which one will break down first?

    Surely Jeter must be asking himself that question.

  147. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Olney:

    The Yanks’ moves:

    Yankees GM Brian Cashman flew to Maryland on the day before Thanksgiving to meet with A.J. Burnett — and while it is not unusual for Cashman to meet with veterans in the offseason, something he learned from Pat Gillick, it is notable because Burnett is coming off a tough second half. The aim of the conversation was to reset and refocus on 2011, and Cashman made it clear to the right-hander that the Yankees believe in his talent.

  148. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    MTU -

    I’ll bet Killer is a minature Chihuahua that he holds on his lap so he can reach the keyboard to post.

  149. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Al-

    I have visited Cary many times in the past for business and the thing I remember are the ice storms.

    Never could figure out why those geniuses in your area didn’t think of underground lines ?

    Wait. Don’t tell me. Because it makes too much sense.

    ;)

  150. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:26 am

    pat -

    I hadn’t heard about a Cashman visit to AJ. What did you read?

  151. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:28 am

    GB7 -

    Your right, if they want to go one on one, that’s OK, but, they bring family into because they lack what’s necessary to go one on one. That proves they can’t defend their point when they need to make it personal. Hope you and Killer are having a good day.

  152. 86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    No matter what your take on this situation, you have to admit the Yanks are in a damned if they do, damned if they don’t situation.

    They will subject to ridicule and criticism from national media all the way to Mike Lu-prick-a for overspending like drunken sailors on shore leave if they give Jeter and Rivera the $ 40 M plus they are reportedly thinking combined.

    Or they’ll be ridiculed for choosing the wrong time to take a hard line on negotiations and trying to control their payroll while being insensitive to the icons who helped them make ten$ of million$ if not hundred$ of million$ of dollar$

    In my opinion Jeter has been made an offer that is more than fair and well above market value for a player of his current skill level and age. There is no reason for the Yanks to increase it just to make Derek feel better. After all they did OVERPAY him by about $ 10-15 M or so for last season’s performance.

  153. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:29 am

    I didn’t know Cash liked fishin’, and fast cars. ;)

  154. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 11:21 am
    GB7, AGREE on Joba. One thing i wonder about with him: could he be the same as A.J. in that he thinks too much instead of just pitching?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I can’t answer anything about how or what they must be thinking out there and have no idea whether they have the same issues, though their pitching results seem to be similar, so far, so anything is possible. I could probably answer those questions if I was like many on here and was a practicing psychologist.

  155. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 11:30 am

    Any of this sound familiar?

    http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03.....offer.html

  156. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    murphydog -

    I was wondering what happened 10 years ago with Jeter’s long-term contract. That was a pretty darn good one, no? I wasn’t living in these parts at the time, and wasn’t privy to the details, nor was I as obsessed at the time as I am now, :lol: , so thanks for bringing it up.

    I’d imagine the Yankees weren’t quick to offer 10 years, no matter how good Jeter was at the time. 10 years is a mega-contract, a huge gamble and a show of “loyalty,” no? Do they get no credit for that, even if it was a fight for Jeter to get it? Fact is, he got it.

  157. yankee21 November 28th, 2010 at 11:31 am

    Just a question for the field, when was the last time any player that signed or re-signed with NYY didn’t “hardline” NYY ownership when the player had the leverage?

    Can anyone recall a home-team discount from anyone?

  158. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    MTU -

    Cary is where you get the major storms both winter and summer. Where I am, we don’t see ice storms, a cold snap, and maybe some light snow or flurries, nothing much to even mention. The eastern part of the state gets losts of tornados etc.

  159. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    MP-

    Fact is he earned it too.

  160. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:32 am

    AL, thanks…I’m doing OK. Can’t answer for “Killer”. That slug didn’t come home last night. He’s like an animal when he’s with friends.

  161. RabidYankee November 28th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    Randy, this is in response to your post from the last thread stating that Yankees management isn’t that smart and that we need another team in NYC to reduce the Yankees revenue share.
    Randy you are way off base.

    If it is so easy to win in the big market NYC then how come the Yankees have been so much more successful than the Mets? Also, look at all the other big market teams who always spend alot with little to show for it.

    The Yankees have combined their wealth with good decision making. Sure they’ve made some bad decisions and they’ve paid for them. That’s a major reason why they went 9 years without winning the WS. Cashman has done a good job of correcting those mistakes by not giving out big contracts to washed up free agents.

    They’ve also done a good job of developing the farm system.

    You make it sound like it’s as simple as having deep pockets when nothing could be further from the truth.

    Also, as a Yankee fan why would you want their revenue to be diluted? The Yankees give their fans all they could ask for by constantly putting money back into the team to try to give it the best chance to win. What more could you ask for as a fan?

  162. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 November 28th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    And Memo to Tino: If you are not going to toe the company line on Jeter because you’re his friend, you’re going to find yourself somebody else’s special assistant.
    _________________________________________
    I dont see how Tino said anything insulting about the yankees. Seems like he was talking about media/fan reactions.

  163. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Al-

    beautiful area nevertheless, but their city planners don’t have much on the ball IMO. :(

  164. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    GB7 -

    You didn’t get that degree yet. I can forward the PeP Boys site where the general population on LoHud gets their’s.

  165. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Wow, murphydog -

    I can understand the “how can they do this to Derek Jeter” now, but in 1997???? He was a mere babe. I don’t believe he’d even done “the flip play” yet, right?

  166. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Nice summary link on the negotiation history. Looks like Levine has been around longer than I realized.

    http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010.....kees-23222

  167. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    MTU -

    What can you expect from a college town, everyone’s so darn smart, they out think themselves.

  168. Fran the original November 28th, 2010 at 11:36 am

    For those that asked about Cashman’s visit to AJ, this was in today’s NY Post:

    Cashman refused to comment on a report that he visited with A.J. Burnett this week.

    According to the ESPN item, Cashman met with Burnett the day before Thanksgiving.

    Cashman meeting with players in the offseason isn’t new, but because Burnett is coming off a nightmare of a season the sit down could have been more than normal.

    Toward the end of last year the Yankees discussed with the pitcher an offseason plan to overhaul Burnett’s pitching mechanics to eliminate too much side-to-side movement in the delivery.

    Nevertheless, that was before Dave Eiland wasn’t retained as pitching coach.

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z16azauuy8

  169. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 11:37 am

    The Yankees have made their offer, in fact they apparently upped their offer, so I don’t see them moving off of it – especially since Jeter’s apparent demands are utterly ridiculous. So offering him 3/45 means the Yankees are turning into the Sox? Even though Cash has come out and said (not that it wasn’t apparent anyway) that the team wants Jeter back and that he’s the only SS for them? Some apparently don’t believe Cash when he said the team wanted Jeter back, but then they are picking and choosing what to believe and what not to believe, because they apparently believe his other comments (about Jeter exploring FA, etc…). Drawing a line in the sand is not a bad thing – the Yankees have taken into account Jeter’s worth to them off the field. No team, without the ties to Jeter that the Yankees have, will offer him 3/45 or anything close. He’s 37 and coming off a bad year; he’s possibly in serious decline. If this were any other SS, that player wouldn’t have very many suitors. Jeter might because of who he is, but 3/45? Nope. Teams are locking up their young players now to save $$$; why would they sign Jeter to an exhorbitant contract?

  170. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:38 am

    MTU -

    Yes, indeed he did earn it, every cent of it.

  171. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 11:39 am

    NYY626 – Andy in 2011 November 28th, 2010 at 11:33 am

    “I dont see how Tino said anything insulting about the yankees. Seems like he was talking about media/fan reactions.”

    C’mon ;) Tino works for Cash, he’s not an independent voice. He should probably just keep quiet instead of worrying out loud about how Jeter’s being portrayed by anybody. Just my opinion.

  172. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    Never figured out why anybody really cares or why you think that it’s their business what a player gets or what the Yankees pay them. It’s never stopped them from getting players they want…as long as the player wanted to come to the Yankees. Don’t give me the old Beltran/Johnson deal, either. It was obvious that George Steinbrenner wanted Johnson and not Beltran. You’re not paying the freight if they overpay and if they underpay them, you’re not going to get a rebate.

  173. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 11:40 am

    murph – nice post at 11:24.

  174. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Al-

    Yeah. too clever by half.

    I enjoyed my time there. Especially since it was on the Company dime.

    I did get a good belly laugh after each ice storm though thinking how these folks don’t seem to have a clue.

    I thought to myself. Man the way to get rich
    down here is to just work for one of the utility
    companies.

    :)

  175. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Thanks, fran.

  176. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Catch you later.

  177. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 11:42 am

    Joe from Long Island:

    Hey Joe. How you been? Hope you had a Good Thanksgiving.

  178. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    GB-

    Spot on ! Extremely righteous.

    :)

  179. yankee21 November 28th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    fran, thanks for posting the AJ link. Anything that can be done to return AJ to respectability is worth the visit. That said, I really hope this visit was more than a cheer him up, pat him on the butt, you can do it, type of get-together. I hope the new PC and Cash have a plan for AJ for him to work on, including the willingness and capability to throw a third pitch. Until he does that, his value to NY is a big fat minus.

  180. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 November 28th, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Murhpydog – well since nobody seems to be keeping quiet during these negotiations ( much to my chagrin) should we be suprised? Anyway I doubt Cashman’s upset about it lol.

  181. austinmac November 28th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    The market sets the value of every player just as it sets all our salaries. Jeter is not excepted from this rule. There are two considerations, what would someone else pay and what income would they lose without him. There have never been thank you money paid.

    It seems clear the Yankees are above what others would pay. The consideration is then difference in income. I can’t answer that, but one would think the team tries to do so. I would expect winning and not individual players are the key to income. No one was more loved than Mattingly, but income and attendance were far less.

    No team pays more than they believe is necessary for a player. Ther are no exceptions.

  182. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 11:44 am

    I’m fine with no Yankee Way – why do the Yankees have to copycat the Orioles? Colossal failure, Randy? Cashman has been in charge since 2005…………how has their pitching development been a colossal failure? Joba? While I agree that they gave up on him as a starter too soon, Joba’s issues are all on Joba. IPK? You may disagree, but IMO he was at best a #4 starter (at best) in the AL EAst………and as I love Granderson, I was fine with trading him. I did not see him as having a real future on this team. We’ll see what Phil becomes, but he’s in their rotation, so he’s not a failure.

    The fact that they need Lee is a reflection more on the fact that AJ has not really worked out, but even that – I will not blame Cash. Thanks to George not caring about the farm system, we had to go and sign CC and AJ. Sorry, I did not want Lowe then and I’m glad we don’t have him now. He was awful last year in the NL – imagine how he’d be in the AL? That was the choice – AJ or Lowe. Javy? Javy was a very good pitcher and was only expected to be a #4 type this year; he couldn’t even do that- he fell apart physicially. This was just bad luck. This is why we need Lee badly…………not because of some crappy development program (though I agree that I don’t think the Yankees have done a GREAT job in that area).

  183. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 11:45 am

    The Yankees can’t do a thing with Lee right now as he’s not accepting offers at this point.

  184. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 11:46 am

    ” Why is going after the best FA pitcher on the market necessarily a sign of failure and defeat?”

    joe in long island-

    i think it’s because they just went after the best one two years ago in sabathia.

    when talking about how good a system is i don’t pay much attention to who’s coming because that is usually just hype. i like to look at who is actually contributing at the mlb level.

  185. JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 11:47 am

    GB. agreed if we could read minds we could both make some serious money,imo

  186. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 November 28th, 2010 at 11:49 am

    GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:40 am
    Never figured out why anybody really cares or why you think that it’s their business what a player gets or what the Yankees pay them
    ________________________________________________
    I dont get it either. I understand why people are arguing about it, but it doesnt matter to me if Jeter gets paid $1 million or $100 million, im gunna root for him anyway. The comments “i will dance in the street if jeter accepts ( fill in the blank)” are amusing. Do you really care that much? Will it make your life that much better if Jeter accepts a lower contract?

  187. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    I believe Chad posted a link to one of the minor league writers (Yankees, that is) that talked about a “Yankee Way.” I’ll try to find it.

    But, Betsy, I think randy’s point with the Orioles is that they have strayed from what made them a successful franchise at one time. He wasn’t talking about the Orioles as they are now, but as they were before they strayed. The Orioles up to the late 90s was a contending team, and in fact it was the Orioles and not the Red Sox who used to give the Yankees a lot of trouble at one time.

  188. 86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    GB 7 —-

    I don’t “care” per se, but to pretend no contract affects them getting other players is at a minimum quite naive…. and I know you’re not naive

    Hal has made it clear that there is a budget that they operate under and so every extra $$$ that one agent extracts has an impact on what’s left for everyone else.

    If that wasn’t the case they could just give each free agent a blank check and let them have at it. Hey Mariano, why not 3 @ $ 25. Javy, you want $ 17.5 a year for 4? No problem.

  189. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    murph – yeah, it was very good. The mrs. and I had just gotten back from a trip to Paris (two years of planning and squirreling $$), and very good friends invited us over to their home for dinner. Our hostess is a very good cook, and the food was traditional, and delicious. My contribution was a couple bottle of wine. The best part was the company, phone calls to assorted family members, and appreciating the significance of the day.

    And, to top it off, the Jets won

    How about you?

  190. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:54 am

    It seems that when the Yankees started pouring money into pitching through the draft and international signings in 2004/2005, it was going to take 3/4 years. The answers to the pitching is just now paying off. First with Hughes and company and now with the next wave almost ready. and there is another wave right behind them. Since they seldom get top picks, thy aren’t likely to get pitcher on the big club the same year they come out of high school or college. Still early to tell, but it looks very promising. Seems that they are finally on target

  191. pat November 28th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    “Can anyone recall a home-team discount from anyone?”

    Paul O’Neill.

  192. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    MP, I know Randy was not (or has not) referred to the Orioles now…….but I just don’t see why the Yankeeks have to have a “way”……..and I couldn’t disagree more with him about his criticisms of the front office/pitching development.

  193. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 11:56 am

    randy – I see your point. I don’t totally sign on to it, but I understand what you’re saying. It points to lack of development in the early part of the decade. And, agreed, all prospects are suspect.

  194. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 11:47 am
    GB. agreed if we could read minds we could both make some serious money,imo

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I’d settle for some not so serious money. I can’t complain, though. I have my car and small house paid off and since I can’t cook, I don’t waste money on fancy/expensive food. Give me a microwave, a spoon and a can opener and I’m happy.

  195. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    “I’m fine with no Yankee Way – why do the Yankees have to copycat the Orioles? Colossal failure, ”

    betsy-

    there is no oriole way now.

    you see, they used to play baseball back before you were born and this was this oriole team that had four twenty game winners. :)

  196. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    GB-

    A fine wine, or whiskey takes time to make.

    And I’ve heard it said that Rome wasn’t built in a day.

    Seems like the Yankee farm system was rebuilt in near record time compared with that.

    ;)

  197. JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    i hear that. money always helps. but happiness is a nicer thing to have,imo. :-)

  198. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    “It points to lack of development in the early part of the decade.”

    joe from long island-

    no , they are still doing a lousy job in the past five years( considering their resources).

    just ask yourself why gardner came to the majors having no clue on how to bunt.

    that’s just one example , but to have a guy like gardner not now how to bunt when that’s probably the most important thing for him to learn shows how mediocre the yankee minor league coaching is.

  199. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    Randy-

    Better take that up with Nardi Contreras. ;)

  200. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 11:52 am
    GB 7 —-

    I don’t “care” per se, but to pretend no contract affects them getting other players is at a minimum quite naive…. and I know you’re not naive

    Hal has made it clear that there is a budget that they operate under and so every extra $$$ that one agent extracts has an impact on what’s left for everyone else.

    If that wasn’t the case they could just give each free agent a blank check and let them have at it. Hey Mariano, why not 3 @ $ 25. Javy, you want $ 17.5 a year for 4? No problem.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Never said to give them blank checks or that they had no budget. They set a budget and it expands or contracts, depending on needs. not only that, but, Cashman has gottem pretty adept at getting other teams to pay a pretty healthy portion of some of these trade salaries. It started with Rodriguez and continued to berkman, kearns, wod and others and has yet to give up much in the way of great talent, other than Soriano. The rest have been decent, but, those were in trades to get Granderson. Hardly anything that has crippled the organization.

  201. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Randy, lol- I’m pretty old, they didn’t play a lot of baseball before I was born!

    If the Oriole way included having 4 20 game winners(Palmer, Cuellar………who else?), then yes – every team should have that. However, isn’t that mostly a matter of luck? Palmer went on to a HOF career and Cueller I think was very good, but the others? I have to look them up (once I find out their names, lol). In any case, I ask if it’s a matter of luck because how can any team really expect to develop that many good pitchers? The Giants? They could be on their way………….

    I’m hoping that Phil continues to develop and that one or two of the kids (not just of the B’s because we have other kids in the system) turn out to be good solid pitchers. That’s all we need – we don’t have to have 4 homegrown aces (wouldn’t mind it, though).

  202. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Betsy -

    I think the Yankees do have a “way.” It may not be what Randy envisions, though. And the Twins’ way may have produced some good pitchers/players, but it hasn’t brought them a WS in a while.

    I also disagree with Randy’s very hawkish stance against the Yankees front office.

  203. JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    just ask yourself why gardner came to the majors having no clue on how to bunt.

    that’s just one example , but to have a guy like gardner not now how to bunt when that’s probably the most important thing for him to learn shows how mediocre the yankee minor league coaching is.
    ****************************
    Not to mention it should have been learned ( the basics.anyway )

  204. pat November 28th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Per todays Globe, Red Sox will not be persuing Derek so any sighting on Newberry Street is just him window shopping or looking for a good place for chowder.

  205. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    “And Memo to Tino: If you are not going to toe the company line on Jeter because you’re his friend, you’re going to find yourself somebody else’s special assistant.”

    murphydog-

    you are a wise man.

    that was a good post overall too.

  206. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Randy-

    Why teach a plumber how to best use his wrench ?

    Or a Policeman the best way to shoot his weapon ?

    Or a Fireman to supress a Fire ?

    Pointless really.

    They can just learn in the field, right ? ;)

  207. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    I should amend one of my earlier comments. While I don’t agree with the severity of Randy’s comments, I also don’t think the Yankees have been great. I still think they rushed Phil; also, they didn’t do Joba any favors by keeping him up here in 2008 instead of sending him back down to start in the minors. Joba was brought up because there was a need in the pen, not because he was ready to start (sounds familiar, sounds like Phil’s story) in the majors. While I think a lot of Joba’s issues (no, almost all of them) are on him, I don’t think he’s a shining example of the Yankees pitching development program at work.

  208. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    randy – I was thinking of the pitching. Hard to argue against the facts, and I don’t see the case for arguing emotions here ;)

    One can always do a better job, and their farm system, while I think improving compared to years ago, still has a lot of room, as you’ve pointed out.

  209. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
    i hear that. money always helps. but happiness is a nicer thing to have,imo.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    35+ years in the military teaches resoursfulness and adaptability…taking advantage of everything. No soldier is without choclate cookies as long as he has, powdered chocolate drink mix, a packet of sugar, a packet of powdered milk, a canteen cap of water and some C-4 to cook with. simple needs.

  210. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Unfortunately, 35+ years doesn’t teach one how to type or spell.

    **resourcefulness***

  211. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    MP, the Twins are a very good organization, but they aren’t perfect by any means. One thing I heard after they lost in the ALDS was that they just don’t have the sufficient power arms to compete with the truly powerful teams in the AL East. I think that makes sense. Their pitchers are generally control-types who don’t really strike people out – and that can be deadly when they face these teams.

  212. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    GB-

    It also doesn’t seem to teach someone what C 4 is really for.

    ;)

  213. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    MTU, C-4 is a great cooking fuel. Just don’t lean over and drop your helmet on it while it’s burning.

  214. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Joe from Long Island:

    Sounds like a wonderful trip: Paris, food, friends and connecting with family.

    I traveled to the Bronx for the in-laws and back to Westchester for my side. Ate too much and spent lots of time with my side, where tact and good manners last only until the first round of egg nog.

  215. JCPD November 28th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    MTU, I actually hope Jeter signs with someone else. That way in three or four years when that contract is up, we won’t have to read 10 days of non stop, repetitive Jeter BS again. ;-)

  216. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    murphydog-

    one thing i do like about cashman is he has a strong instinct for survival.

    i think he is already starting to look at the lay of the land and probably realizes if this jeter thing doesn’t work out, hal and hank and levine aren’t going anywhere.

    that only leaves…

  217. JEKIKASO November 28th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    GB, i hear that one. and no need to apologize for spelling. trust me on this one,lol

  218. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    JCPD-

    I hear you. And I’m feeling you.

    And I know you’re not serious but I hope he stays.

    GB-

    I kind of wondered about the C 4 comment after I posted it. These modern explosives are really amazing.

  219. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    mtu-

    you might want to rephrase that last statement with internet big bother using all those listening algorithms :)

  220. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Randy-

    The NSA is focused on Red Sox fans only. ;)

    But thanks for thinking of my welfare.

  221. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
    JCPD-

    I hear you. And I’m feeling you.

    And I know you’re not serious but I hope he stays.

    GB-

    I kind of wondered about the C 4 comment after I posted it. These modern explosives are really amazing.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    It takes a combination of a charge/heat source and concussion to set it off. of course, blasting caps are safer and best. Like I’ve mentioned…when necessary, guys get resourceful.

    from article on C-4:

    C4 burns slowly when it is ignited with a flame rather than detonated with a primary explosive, so soldiers during the Vietnam War era would sometimes use small amounts of C4 as fuel for heating rations while on long patrols. Burning C4 produces poisonous fumes and should be avoided. While many soldiers used C4 safely in this manner, there are anecdotes about soldiers trying to put out the fire by stomping on it, causing it to detonate

  222. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
    just ask yourself why gardner came to the majors having no clue on how to bunt.

    ————————————————————————
    This is not true. I watched him play in every game in SWB, and Garner was a good bunter there, and was far more aggressive on the base paths. You should ask yourself, what is the difference between his game in AAA, and that with the Yankees. It may be he was told not to bunt as much, didn’t practice bunting at the MLB level, and was not allowed to be as aggressive with the Yankees.

  223. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Time for Giants football, no talk of Jeter there, thank god.

  224. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Rush? How was Phil Hughes rushed? He was drafted in 2004 and came up in 2007. He’s 31 and 18 in his career to date. I hope they rush more like him.

    Phil Hughes: 31-18 (51 starts)

    Bob Gibson: 19-23 (48 starts)

    Tom Seaver: 32-25 (69 starts)

    Sandy Koufax: 20-21 (54 starts)


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