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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Report: Javier Vazquez signs with Florida

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

After his disappointing return to New York, Javier Vazquez has found his way back to the National League.

Vazquez has reportedly agreed to a one-year deal with the Florida Marlins. The Yankees will get a compensation draft pick.

No need to rehash Vazquez’s entire 2010 season. The beginning was bad, and the end was worse, but there was one stretch — just before the all-star break — when it seemed Vazquez was going to be exactly what the Yankees envisioned. He was winning games and giving the Yankees consistent starts.

Obviously the Marlins are hoping for that sort of performance. Vazquez is far from a sure thing, but a one-year deal minimizes the risk and the Marlins will take their chances on a bounce-back season. Most reports indicate Vazquez was specifically looking for a one-year contract, wanting to evaluate his career year-by-year at this point.

 
 

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115 Responses to “Report: Javier Vazquez signs with Florida”

  1. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    so, everybody was wrong. Vazquez had value for the Yankees after all.

  2. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Who would have thought that of Abreu, Damon, Matsui, and Vazquez, only Vazquez would have yielded a pick as a free agent? Not me.

  3. icebird753 November 28th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    What number pick for compensation? They will land someone sick, but will definitely lose the Lee pick.

  4. icebird753 November 28th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    the lee pick being their current slot

  5. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    It’s amazing what $13 million dollars gets you these days.lol

  6. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Good luck to Javy.

    ***

    yankeefeminista -

    The 11 AM game I went to in Lakewood – the sun was definitely brutal. I got quite a burn that day. Not-so-lol. :? Grant Stoneburner pitched a great game that day and the River Dogs got enough offense.

    This season, I think there are maybe 2 games in Trenton at that hour, but it doesn’t help me because it’s after the end of the school year. The game in Lakewood last season was in May, so it worked perfectly for me.

  7. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    It’s a supplementary or sandwich pick – the Marlins don’t lose a pick.

  8. DaSaint007 November 28th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    I actually rooted for Javy, hoping he’d have a good season in his second stint. Oh well. Hope he fares better back in the NL. At least we got something for him!

    I’m ok with Nunez and Pena battling in ST for the ‘backup’ SS/utility infield job.

  9. jacksquat November 28th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
    Again, equating Jeter’s 2011 numbers with his 2010 production is foolhardy. There is nothing to indicate he will put up those aberrational 2010 numbers. Even the saber militants who have been harping on Jeter’s 2010 numbers have been intentionally remiss by not mentioning that Jeter’s 2010 BABIP is 50 points lower than his career BABIP, indicating that Jeter’s 2010 numbers should go up in 2011, not go down or stay the same.

    I don’t think many people are saying that he couldn’t bounce back a little. However, he’s in his late 30′s, so it’s unlikely he will be like he was in his prime again, especially defensively.

    So 3/45 is still very generous, even with better hitting than 2010.

  10. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Jeter is to Nuñez as Dewey is to Truman?

    Ouch!

  11. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Simon, assuming that NYYs sign Jeter, Lee, Rivera, and Pettitte, the only real spots open will be fleshing out the bullpen and the 5th outfield spot. Again that’s betting on Laird making the tean as the four corner utility guy and Nunez/Pena in the middle infield utility spot. NYYs either goes with the defense on a guy like Golson or less defense with a heavy left handed bat who can play some corner outfield. That’s how I see it shaking out.

  12. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Looking at BABIP absent LD% is to misunderstand the utility of BABIP.

    Jeter’s LD% was 4% lower in 2010 than his career average, which explains a substantial amount of the decline of his BABIP, and makes it far less likely that luck played a large role in that decline.

  13. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    The 11 AM game I went to in Lakewood – the sun was definitely brutal. I got quite a burn that day. Not-so-lol. Grant Stoneburner pitched a great game that day and the River Dogs got enough offense.

    This season, I think there are maybe 2 games in Trenton at that hour, but it doesn’t help me because it’s after the end of the school year. The game in Lakewood last season was in May, so it worked perfectly for me.
    ________________________________________
    I saw the Jose Ramirez night game in July. I had hoped to also get there for Stoneburner, but the trip is a bit of a distance.

    This year, River Dogs play *5* games in Lakewood early in the season, April 25-29. So I hope to see at least 2 games there. Dogs unfortunately only have the one visit there in ’11.

  14. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Sunday November 28, 2010 12:44PM

    Yankees appear willing to enhance offer to Jeter.
    Jon Heyman

    The Yankees are expected to ramp up negotiations in coming days in an effort to put longtime star Derek Jeter back in pinstripes, but Jeter will still have to accept some sort of pay cut to stay, according to a league source familiar with their thinking.

    The Yankees appear willing to enhance their latest $45 million, three-year offer to retain the iconic Yankee, but are said to be unwilling to match his previous salary on a deal of at least three years. Jeter just completed a 10-year, $189-million deal that paid him about $21 million in 2010.

    The Yankees’ next offer is expected to be for a couple million more per year, so perhaps in the $50 million range for three years. Indications thus far are they have very little inclination to add a fourth year, though that can’t be entirely ruled out. The team would like to complete the Jeter negotiations so they can get to the rest of their offseason to-do list, bringing Jeter’s longtime friend and iconic closer Mariano Rivera back into the fold and pressing to sign superstar free agent pitcher Cliff Lee.

    Jeter is said by someone familiar with the talks to be looking for about $23 million annually on a deal of four-to-five years. While Jeter had an uncharacteristic off year in 2010, batting .270 with 10 home runs, he did still score 111 runs, make the All-Star team and win a Gold Glove. Jeter, 36, also has a value in terms of branding and the franchise that his camp has pressed, while the Yankees have portrayed Jeter mostly in baseball terms.

    The Yankees and Jeter have been expected to make a deal all winter, as baseball people can’t see the Yankees captain and face of the dynasty leaving the Yankees. Though one person close to him said the departures of Joe Torre, Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams and the loss of George Steinbrenner means it can’t entirely be ruled out entirely, it’s still difficult to envision Jeter choosing to play anywhere else.

    The talks have gotten a bit messy, as new Yankees owner Hal Steinbrenner predicted they could, based on the large gap in the sides’ view of his value. The most recent salvo was fired by Yankees GM Brian Cashman, who basically challenged Jeter to look around in free agency. It isn’t known whether Jeter has begun looking. A few other teams seek a shortstop, most notably the World Series champion San Francisco Giants, whose GM, Brian Sabean, headed the club’s scouting department when the Yankees made Jeter the No. 6 overall pick in the 1992 draft and signed him quickly to a bonus of $700,000.

    Baseball people suggest the Yankees and Jeter need each other, though, as he does have a value to the franchise, they don’t have a sure replacement (good prospect Eduardo Nunez is unproven and the next best free agent shortstop may be Orlando Cabrera), and Jeter’s own legacy and legions of loyal Yankee fans would be at risk if he left.

  15. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    If Jeter won’t take $50m over three years, there really is no point in continuing to negotiate.

  16. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    “Jeter’s LD% was 4% lower in 2010 than his career average, which explains a substantial amount of the decline of his BABIP, and makes it far less likely that luck played a large role in that decline.”

    how many less line drives per hundred balls in play did jeter have? 4,3,2,1?

  17. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    I’m no math genius but I do own a calculator. They increased the offer $1.6 million a year? If Jeter has even a modicum of pride he will turn that down.

  18. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    That Yankee offer if true is like you asking your sister for some M&M’s and she gives you 2. Then you ask again and she gives you 3 and acts like she is doing you a big favor. The Yankee front office is a joke,

  19. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    “how many less line drives per hundred balls in play did jeter have? 4,3,2,1?”

    Not enough.

    “I’m no math genius but I do own a calculator. They increased the offer $1.6 million a year? If Jeter has even a modicum of pride he will turn that down.”

    So the Yankees should continue to negotiate against themselves for how long?

  20. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    The 11 AM game I went to in Lakewood – the sun was definitely brutal. I got quite a burn that day. Not-so-lol. Grant Stoneburner pitched a great game that day and the River Dogs got enough offense.

    This season, I think there are maybe 2 games in Trenton at that hour, but it doesn’t help me because it’s after the end of the school year. The game in Lakewood last season was in May, so it worked perfectly for me.
    ________________________________________
    I saw the Jose Ramirez night game in July. I had hoped to also get there for Stoneburner, but the trip is a bit of a distance.

    This year, River Dogs play *5* games in Lakewood early in the season, April 25-29. So I hope to see at least 2 games there. Dogs unfortunately only have the one visit there in ‘11.

    *****

    I’ll have to check the Lakewood schedule. I’d love to see the River Dogs there again. We’re about 20 minutes from Trenton and 35-40 from Lakewood, so not too bad, and we usually see a couple games at Lakewood and as many as we can in Trenton each season.

  21. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    Just using wind currents for example. How many times have you watched a game in NY and the wind changes speed and direction multiple times in a game. Or on defense, the pitcher misses his spot and the defense is playing the expected location, only to see the ball fly through the vacated spot where defense would be if that was the correct pitch or location. Just too many variables are left out that no matrix can answer…only eyes and judgement.

    **********

    Based on what you saw with your eyes can you please explain how and to what degree the factors you mention affected Jeter and A Rods respective seasons in terms of their statistical production?

  22. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    no seriously rich nj. i want to put a concrete number on how many less line drives jeter hit.

    how many total did he hit in 2009 and how many did he hit in 2010?

  23. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    My post was eated that contained a link.

    randy

    110 line drives in 2009, 89 line drives in 2010

  24. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    What I read didn’t give an exact $ figure – it said perhaps in the $50 million range. That could be anywhere from 50 to say 55 million, in my mind.

  25. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    MP (Mr. Phelps), your assignment, should you chose to accept it, is to report on the games that you attend….especially on Gary Sanchez and Cito Culver.

  26. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Rich you are seeing this as a standard player-management negotiation based strictly upon performance and the market.

    I see this differently. I don’t think Jeter is just another player that management should try to beat and humiliate in the process.

    I really don’t want to rehash it all again, I’ve said my piece in the past numerous times. I brespect your opinion I just see this differently. I’m not saying I am right or wrong – just my considered opinion.

  27. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    thanks rich in nj

    concrete numbers are easier to digest than rates.

  28. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    MP,

    Sorry that I couldn’t mention anything about this post self-destructing in 10 seconds, but, I can’t risk giving this computer any ideas.

  29. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    That Yankee offer if true is like you asking your sister for some M&M’s and she gives you 2. Then you ask again and she gives you 3 and acts like she is doing you a big favor.

    **********

    Really bad analogy unless giving you 2 M and Ms was extremely generous to begin with.

  30. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    “Rich you are seeing this as a standard player-management negotiation based strictly upon performance and the market.”

    No, I’m not. If I was, I would think that Jeter deserves $7m-$10m a year for two years.

    “I see this differently. I don’t think Jeter is just another player that management should try to beat and humiliate in the process.”

    Neither do I, which is why I support $45m over three years.

  31. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    GB7 -

    I will accept the mission!

    :)

  32. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    That sound like a deal, MP. Do you attend many of the farm games in the Jersey area?

  33. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    WCYF – Thanks for posting the Heyman article. While Heyman can, on occasion and for whatever reason, come out with some silly things, he has been around for a long time and has some very good sources, particularly with the Yankees dating to when he was a NY writer.

    YES is broadcasting a new Hot Stove show tomorrow evening. The reporters on that show usually provide some good insight into what’s happening, rather than just trying to generate hits on a website. I hope Kepner and/or Curry are on. They seem to have very good Yankee sources.

  34. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    LGY November 28th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    That Yankee offer if true is like you asking your sister for some M&M’s and she gives you 2. Then you ask again and she gives you 3 and acts like she is doing you a big favor.

    **********

    Really bad analogy unless giving you 2 M and Ms was extremely generous to begin with.

    **********

    We just see it differently good sir. I don’t believe the original Yankee offer was to use your words, “extremely generous” to begin with. We can disagree.

  35. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    You are welcome Joe. And thanks for the heads up, I will be watching.

  36. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    Rich – we just have a big difference of opinion on Jeter. It’s all good. I understand where you are coming from.

  37. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    This eye and judgement thing if really taking a while.

    That is one minus for that approach standing on its own.

  38. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    GB7 -

    We go to about 5 games in Trenton a year and another 2 in Lakewood. I’d like to go to some by myself this year if I can. It’s easier without the student in tow, you know? That way, I can take however many pictures I like, and write as many notes in the scorebook as I want, and not worry that I’m not being a good parent. :)

    GB7 – Think back to last season when Charleston played in Lakewood and pictures were posted through a link and a detailed report on Stoneburner was posted here. Also I saw Brandon Laird play a game in Trenton last summer and had some questions for you about him at the time regarding his footwork around 3rd base. I am familiar with the assignment.

    I’ve never seen the Somerset Patriots or the team in Newark, but aren’t those both independent league teams?

    I’ve never been to SWB, either, but if I can bribe my husband or my sister to go for a weekend, I would love to see that team, as well. There’s a lot of players between Trenton and SWB that I’d love to see play.

  39. Amazing808s November 28th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Wasn’t Vazquez going to like retire after 2010?

  40. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    I’ll have to check the Lakewood schedule. I’d love to see the River Dogs there again. We’re about 20 minutes from Trenton and 35-40 from Lakewood, so not too bad, and we usually see a couple games at Lakewood and as many as we can in Trenton each season.
    _________________
    The more prospect games the merrier. Staten Island is another nice option. Also SWB when they are at Allentown, which is an easy trip across the PA. border via 78 West.

  41. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I don’t think the numbers are contrary to my eyes on Jeter’s 2010 season. But I was hoping the BABIP was going to give me an inkling of bad luck. Don’t recall LD% but I think Jeter’s GIDP% was the worst on the team by a good bit. Without the numbers, my perception was there were a lot of weak grounders, not screamers that somehow got snagged. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers say his offense was not related to bad luck in 2010. I still think there will be a turnaround in 2011. However, if not….

    If it doesn’t turn around, I don’t think that Jeter, Captain of the Yankees, can stand being so many points off his usual numbers two years in a row. I know he poo-poos defensive metrics, claiming that there are too many variables not captured and evaluated. (And he got another Gold Glove). But batting 50 points off his lifetime average, banging into so many DPs, and all the rest for another year would get to him. Not sure I could stand to see him come face to face with mortality next year, Peter Pan having to grow up like the rest of us.

    These negotiations, assuming they are successful in getting Jeter back to the Bronx, may have done something else. The numerous discussions in and around the game may have lessened expectations of the Captain, meaning on the one hand there’s going to be less hesitation when it comes to Girardi dropping him in the lineup, asking him to bunt, sitting him more often. And on the other hand it may just rejuvenate Jeter to be a little bit of an “underdog,” sit more often and hit somewhere else in the lineup.

    There’s some highlight reel baseball left in him, methinks.

  42. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    yankeefeminista -

    I always tell myself I’ve got to get to Staten Island to see a game. The last 2 seasons, everytime I got it into my mind to go, the timing wasn’t right with their schedule and mine. Maybe this year! I figured I could make it an excursion. Drive into SI (maybe Great Kills) and take the SIRR to St. George. Too bad my folks just sold their home on SI – it would have made a great family outing, and I’d have a place to drop off my car!

  43. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    Looking at BABIP absent LD% is to misunderstand the utility of BABIP.
    Jeter’s LD% was 4% lower in 2010 than his career average, which explains a substantial amount of the decline of his BABIP, and makes it far less likely that luck played a large role in that decline.
    ___________________________________

    Then how do you explain 2008, when Jeter’s LD% was also substantially lower vs. righties (16.9) and his BABIP was 24 points below his career BABIP. That didn’t keep Jeter from bouncing back to a 19.4% LD % vs. righties in 2009 and an almost identical BABIP to 2007.

  44. Patrick November 28th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I’m happy for Javy and I’m glad it worked out that the yanks got a pick. If Vazquez is healthy he will have a big year.

  45. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
    GB7 -

    We go to about 5 games in Trenton a year and another 2 in Lakewood. I’d like to go to some by myself this year if I can. It’s easier without the student in tow, you know? That way, I can take however many pictures I like, and write as many notes in the scorebook as I want, and not worry that I’m not being a good parent.

    GB7 – Think back to last season when Charleston played in Lakewood and pictures were posted through a link and a detailed report on Stoneburner was posted here. Also I saw Brandon Laird play a game in Trenton last summer and had some questions for you about him at the time regarding his footwork around 3rd base. I am familiar with the assignment.

    I’ve never seen the Somerset Patriots or the team in Newark, but aren’t those both independent league teams?

    I’ve never been to SWB, either, but if I can bribe my husband or my sister to go for a weekend, I would love to see that team, as well. There’s a lot of players between Trenton and SWB that I’d love to see play.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You want me to think back to last summer, and I can’t remember if I ate breakfast this morning?

    I get to see the kids when they are young, playing in the SALLY League, and some of the Tampa kids, both HIGH A and Rookie League, but, not so many of the AA and AAA games as I’d like.

  46. Patrick November 28th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Its also very cool that Javy can finally play in a city that’s very close to his home. I always liked Vazquez, it’s a shame he never worked out for us

  47. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    I’ve never seen the Somerset Patriots or the team in Newark, but aren’t those both independent league teams?

    I always tell myself I’ve got to get to Staten Island to see a game. The last 2 seasons, everytime I got it into my mind to go, the timing wasn’t right with their schedule and mine. Maybe this year! I figured I could make it an excursion. Drive into SI (maybe Great Kills) and take the SIRR to St. George. Too bad my folks just sold their home on SI – it would have made a great family outing, and I’d have a place to drop off my car!
    ________________________
    I haven’t bothered to go to Somerset b/c they aren’t Yankee-affiliated and really don’t have top prospects. Ditto, Newark. Plus I have my hands full, trying to get to as many Yank minor league games as I can.

    Staten Island is a great place to see a game. Right next to the Ferry. From behind home plate there are great views of the Hudson and Statue of Liberty. Also some good ethnic restaurants on the drive in on Victory Boulevard if you take a car straight to the Stadium.

  48. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    I know GB7. I knew it was a longshot….

    :)

  49. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Yankeefeminista -

    That’s a thought – to drive all the way to the stadium.

    I was a little nostalgic for a ride on the SIRR, but it’s not like it’s the old brown cars with the wicker seats and all at street level……

    And I always enjoy a good ethnic restaurant!

  50. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    Jeter grounding into DPs is never a real surprise, so although it can be frustrating, it doesn’t bother me. He’s has been in double figures every season of his career and even in his best seasons, they were up there a bit. Jeter has good speed, but hardly blinding speed coming out of the box, much because his swing gets him a little off balance a lot of times even when he makes solid line drive connection.

  51. 86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    West Coast —

    You seem to think $ 25 M a year is fair…. that makes three of you on the planet… Jeter and Casey Close joining you on Fantasy Island

    To borrow you M&M analogy it’s like seeing your sister has a bag of M&Ms and taking all of them and then making her go buy you some more

    preposterous

  52. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
    I know GB7. I knew it was a longshot….

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You’ve been talking to and taking lessons from that Randy guy, haven’t you?

  53. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    I was down on Javy, but he really came through in a classy way by agreeing to turn down arbitration so the Yanks could get a pick. I hope he bounces back in Florida

  54. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm

    GB7 -

    Hang around long enough a person’s sure to learn something. :)

  55. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 4:12 pm

    I’m sorry, but I really doubt that the loss of the Boss and his other friends would influence Jeter to look elsewhere. If he does, the only reason would lbe dissatisfaction with the proposed deal.

    I would prefer NOT to increase the $$$, but I’d rather that than the years……..I think 4 is out for the Yankees. If they increase the offer by a couple of million and Jeter still doesn’t bite, then really – what more can the Yankees do? AS it stands they’ve already upped their offer once ( to 3/45).

  56. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    GB7 -

    By the way, I noted last night that you were watching something on PBS – Kingston Trio, Highwaymen, etc.

    We had the same program on up here – hosted by John Sebastian. We gave up on it though, when the sales pitch lasted almost as long as the musical segments. Did you hang in? How was it?

  57. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
    Yankeefeminista -

    That’s a thought – to drive all the way to the stadium.

    I was a little nostalgic for a ride on the SIRR, but it’s not like it’s the old brown cars with the wicker seats and all at street level……

    And I always enjoy a good ethnic restaurant!
    ______________________________________
    It isn’t a bad drive, depending on when you travel and it’s a beautiful ballpark to watch a game in on a sunny summer day…

    In NJ, the old green Erie Lackawanna trains were classics.

    There are a bunch of Sri Lankan restaurants on the Blvd. on the way in.

  58. Ruby Tuesday November 28th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    I love M & M’s !

  59. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    86w183 November 28th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    West Coast — You seem to think $ 25 M a year is fair…. that makes three of you on the planet… Jeter and Casey Close joining you on Fantasy Island. To borrow you M&M analogy it’s like seeing your sister has a bag of M&Ms and taking all of them and then making her go buy you some more

    preposterous

    **********

    I believe I made a very strong case for why I feel the way I do about Jeter in a couple of long posts previously. I see no reason to re-hash the same points again and again, I’m sure others here are tired of it.

  60. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
    GB7 -

    Hang around long enough a person’s sure to learn something.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Generally, that would be the case, yes. Not always the case with some people on here, though.

    anyway, looking forward to your reports. Most of the parks I go, I can get a signal on my computer, so I try to send things from the park during the game. a few of the season ticket holders are great to talk with, especially the older guys, like in Savannah who have some great stories about the times that the Yanks would come through during ST on the way north. Some great stuff from these guys.

  61. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    “Then how do you explain 2008, when Jeter’s LD% was also substantially lower vs. righties (16.9) and his BABIP was 24 points below his career BABIP. That didn’t keep Jeter from bouncing back to a 19.4% LD % vs. righties in 2009 and an almost identical BABIP to 2007.”

    ——————————

    That is not what you are trying to assert.

    Your claim was that Jeter’s numbers should go up simply because his BABIP was down. That is not true and that is what Rich is saying.

    If Jeter’s LD% increases and his GB% decreases of course his BABIP will recover to a degree as will his numbers.

    However, it will not just magically go up next year. This is not like Swisher who’s BABIP was down in 2008 yet his batted ball data was stable. That suggested it was largely a result of luck.

    That is not the case with Jeter.

    The problem is assuming a 37 year old will start driving the ball again with authority on a regular basis and stop chasing so much. If he does that like in 2009 he will very likely bounce back.

    Would love that to happen but it is far from a foregone conclusion. Jeter hit 1 HR out of the park the final 3.5 months of the season.

  62. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    GB7 -

    I was able to get a weak signal in Lakewood, but none in Trenton…

    I have an iPad I can bring though and see what I can see.

  63. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
    GB7 -

    By the way, I noted last night that you were watching something on PBS – Kingston Trio, Highwaymen, etc.

    We had the same program on up here – hosted by John Sebastian. We gave up on it though, when the sales pitch lasted almost as long as the musical segments. Did you hang in? How was it?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    The commercials were a pain, but, for the videos and music, it was great. Videos with jesse Colin //Young and the Youngbloods, Barry McGuire…all as they look now. sadly many of the older ones are gone now. Michelle Phillips is really looking rough, even for her age. All and all, great stuff, though.

  64. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    I did see Michelle Phillips, GB7. She did look like she’s lived a bit, no? But the alternative is something along the lines of Cher…

    I can remember singing a lot of those songs in school a long time ago.

  65. BIG AL November 28th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    The Yankees are once more bidding against themselves, if there’s truth to them willing to up the offer by $1.6M.

    Anyone that’s that much in love with Jeter, to think he should turn that offer down, because it’s an insult, should join Jeter when he walks away.

    The highest paid middle IF makes $12.5M, to give Jeter $16.5, at this point in his career, is not only fair, it’s beyond generous.

    Me, I’d call Close and tell him this is our final offer, if Jeter rejects this offer, we will begin the procees of looking for a new SS for next season.

    I don’t care how Close and Jeter spin this any longer, we’ve heard all the arguments from folks on both sides of this issue.

    Mr. Jeter, it’s time to S**T or get off the pot.

  66. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
    I did see Michelle Phillips, GB7. She did look like she’s lived a bit, no? But the alternative is something along the lines of Cher…

    I can remember singing a lot of those songs in school a long time ago.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    She did well in her career with minimal talent and good looks though. If she Cass Elliot’s voice, nobody would have remembered Cher. Instead, she had sonny’s voice. What a great group, though. I was really surprised that John Fogerty and CCR videos weren’t on there. Tim Hardin never got the push he needed, but he was great. another one that didn’t get the big breaks was Tim Buckley. great talent and gone way too early.

  67. SAS November 28th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    That’s my kind of music.

  68. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Hi SAS.

    I’d heard a lot of the music, but never actually seen footage of the people who sang it before.

  69. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    LGY November 28th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    Your claim was that Jeter’s numbers should go up simply because his BABIP was down. That is not true and that is what Rich is saying.

    If Jeter’s LD% increases and his GB% decreases of course his BABIP will recover to a degree as will his numbers.

    The problem is assuming a 37 year old will start driving the ball again with authority on a regular basis and stop chasing so much. If he does that like in 2009 he will very likely bounce back.

    Would love that to happen but it is far from a foregone conclusion. Jeter hit 1 HR out of the park the final 3.5 months of the season.
    _______________________________________
    I see your point about LD%; however, I was asserting that Jeter’s BABIP was so low –50 points is a huge drop compared to career norm–and therefore, it is unlikely that that BABIP is representative of a decline but of an anomaly. You say it won’t magically go up, but I don’t think there is anything magical about his BABIP going up. We are talking about a body of work vs. a one year sample size with the still very recent 2009 numbers still indicative of what Jeter’s production can be.

    & how do we even know that it is a problem for a 37 year old Jeter to drive the ball, when a 36 year old Jeter was able to bounce back from a previous seeming inability to drive the ball, and drive it to the tune of 19.4% vs. righties? Further, it may primarily be injury or lack of rest that produced an inability to drive the ball in the last three months of 2010. If you look at Jeter’s LD% it was at a very respectable 20% in May and June. It went downhill from there, and we know he got hurt in June, and had that 17 day stretch without a break, and played through two west coast trips at the end of June/the beginning of July.

    For comparison, Alex’s line drive rates in July and August for example were a measly 8.9 and 7.5. Cano’s in July was one of his lowest LD % of the year at 18%. The team in general was gassed. & let’s face it, Jeter got played into the ground. So perhaps Girardi will be a little smarter, and use Nunez more this time around. & IF Jeter repeats his 2010 numbers THEN I will consider the sample size more valid.

  70. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    SAS, afternoon. hope you’ve had a goog holiday weekend and all is going well for you and family.

    Did you see the PBS broadcast last night, too? Great stuff and it will be repeated on wednesday night here. Will watch it again.

  71. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

    Music is so generational . Many people think that “their music” is superior and they have their own subjective means of measuring quality. To me it’s how large and memorable a group’s body of work is. For instance, I can’t name one Green Day or Kings of Leon song – but I can name many, many ood to great Beatles, Stones, Springsteen and Zeppelin tunes.

  72. clownthrowindown November 28th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    So perhaps Girardi will be a little smarter, and use Nunez
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Jeter or no Jeter, Girardi needs to step up and start asserting his authority as manager instead of shying away from confrontation with his big name players. Players should sit when Girardi wants them to, not when they agree to it. Guys should bat where he wants them to bat, sac when he wants them to sac, etc.

    Its wrong for the stars to make it difficult but, ultimately its Girardi’s job to do what he thinks is best for the team. If Girardi thinks stars should always have it their way or if he is intimidated by them, then the Yankees need to hire a manger with more stature, more spine and more sense.

  73. DocTodd November 28th, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    I love M&Ms too! I put the plain ones on a plate in the microwave for a quick blast, so they get a bit gooey inside….

  74. GoYanks November 28th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    WCYF –

    Thought you were in a baseball universe – why are you talking about music?

    ============================================
    West Coast Yankee Fan November 27th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
    I guess I am in the baseball universe, I didn’t realize this was a military blog. Pardon the intrusion
    ============================================

  75. Bx is Burning November 28th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Criterion’s ‘Monterey Pop’ box set is well worth the $.
    You get the original film, the complete Otis Redding and Hendrix performances, and some great Mamas and Papas footage (amongst many others) on the outtakes disc.

  76. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    yankeefeminista,

    50 points is a huge drop, but his GB% saw a huge rise.

    Jeter’s career GB% is 55%. In 2010, he GB% was 65.7%. 4.6% higher than the next closest player and a 10.7% rise over his career norm.

    He hit 10.7% more groundballs in 2010 than his career norms. That is a huge increase and that is going to have a major impact on your BABIP. It is hard to view him as the same player in the context of his BABIP with that kind of disparity. Jeter on groundballs in his career has a .269 BA vs a .772 BA on line drives. When you hit the ball on the ground 10% more considering your career BA in .269 when you do that you are going to see not just a slight, but a major dip in your BABIP.

    Beyond the facts we have in front of us, that Jeter was unable to drive the ball last season on a regular basis and just kept pounding it into the ground, the rest is speculation.

    The sample size argument loses much of its significance when we are talking about aging players, especially middle infielders who do not age well. If you look at his comparable players on bref like the guys at theyankeeu did which I have linked a couple times on here it is not comforting.

    So, while you may be comfortable just waiting another year to worry that is a huge risk to the Yankees based on the fact he is a FA. If he was signed through 2011 then that is a different story.

    But, since he is a free agent and an aging player, 2010 is not the only year but it is the most important when talking about how he will produce over the life of this contract.

    His LD and GB is not even the only thing to be concerned about. He swung at pitches out of the strike zone at a rate significantly higher than his career and he performed just slightly above average against the fastball in 2010 which is concerning in terms of his bat speed because he usually has annihilated fastballs.

  77. Sudden Sam November 28th, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    good riddence Another NL star pitcher who cannot pitch in AL east

  78. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    Javy was a disaster as was Nick Johnson. I’m a firm believer that once you make a decision to move a play,er, you don’t go back and give it another try especially two of them at once. Hopefully we won’t be in the market for players we decided we didn’t want anytime in the near future.

  79. ac1 November 28th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Andy Pettitte has worked out pretty well no?

    Marcus Thames had a good year.

    Normally i agree, but there are exceptions.

  80. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    i’ll bet jeter hand a severe left hand injury, but didn’t want to admit it and give it away to other teams because he’d get pitched in even more.

    we’ll never know unless he writes a book someday when he’s done playing.

  81. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    How about them Giants, looked bad early on but they did so a gut check and pull it out. Eli lobs another one back at his critics.

  82. SAS November 28th, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    If MP had a million commercials, I would have them too. What time Wednesday night?

  83. Gary November 28th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    ac1

    I agree on Thames got me on that one. I consider Andy leaving the first time due to a stupid front office move.

  84. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 5:53 pm

    randy l:

    “we’ll never know unless he writes a book someday when he’s done playing.”

    And what, my friend, are the chances he says anything the least bit revealing? Probably his LD rate is higher ;)

  85. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 5:54 pm

    I’m starting to get confused over which injury caused Jeter’s bad season.

    I thought it was the left leg. Now it is the left hand?

  86. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 5:55 pm

    And don’t forget the left knee.

  87. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Man, the left side of Derek Jeter is pretty fragile.

    Maybe they can just pay for his right side.

  88. Tar November 28th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    “Man, the left side of Derek Jeter is pretty fragile.”

    And yet he still had more hits than any other SS in baseball.

    Pretty good for a bad year.

  89. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    LGY -

    Perhaps it was the combination of injuries suffered one atop the other. Not unthinkable.

  90. Vineyard Yankee November 28th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    Albert:

    ‘Fish or cut bait’, huh ? How sharp is your knife ?

  91. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    MP,

    I just pulling randy’s chain.

  92. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

    Tar,

    Misleading way to characterize it because of the number of PA he had. He had the 8th highest BA among SS.

  93. blake November 28th, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    Is there anything about the Jeter negotiations that hasn’t been said at least 5 times already?

    Good for Javy, I hope he rebounds……that was a nice thing he did for the Yanks agreeing to decline arbitration.

  94. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    And I was always under the impression that batting averages were the most useless stat of all, outside of RBI, runs scored and ERA/wins for pitchers.

    I guess it depends on which day it is.

  95. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    If I am doing my calculations correctly.

    From May 1st on Jeter hit .260/.338/.344.

    .682 OPS. Yikes.

  96. yankee21 November 28th, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Agree blake on both your points.

    At the end of the day, nobody is going to put forth a new arguement for/against the Jeter offer.

    I think everyone knows where everyone stands.

    Regarding Javy, simply a case of losing stuff not a lack of effort. Seems like a good guy, good luck to him.

  97. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    How is BA useless when talking about the number of hits Jeter had??

  98. blake November 28th, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    I really just felt bad for Vasquez mainly, it was hard to watch at times and in a different way than with AJ’s struggles…..He just had no way to defend himself out there on many nights. In the end though he did a good thing to assure that the Yanks would get something out of the chance they took on him. He has a good situation in Florida, no pressure and close to home in Puerto Rico.

  99. Tar November 28th, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    “Misleading way to characterize it because of the number of PA he had”

    In your opion did Hank Aaron pass Babe Ruth, or does that not count because Aaron had so many more PA.

    And there is a reason he had more PA than any other SS.

    The fact remains had had a bad year, yet still had more hits than any other MLB SS. No matter how you try to spin it.

  100. Joe from Long Island November 28th, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    blake – hi there. I just finished decorating the tree, and am catching up before dinner. Your earlier post was spot on in my opinion – nothing more to say, and good luck to Vazquez. It was sad, the guy really gave it his all, it’s just that, at times, he did look completely defenseless. I really wonder if he’s just plain washed-up. It has to happen sometime, and with his decreased velocity and nothing working, over and over again, I wonder. Despite everything, he carried himself like a professional.

    Like many, I wish him the best.

  101. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Go Yanks – Baseball is music.

  102. blake November 28th, 2010 at 6:43 pm

    Joe,

    Hi yourself, yea its getting to be that time of year. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving and all….hopefully the Jeter madness ends this week.

  103. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 6:45 pm

    LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
    How is BA useless when talking about the number of hits Jeter had??

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    So, what you’re saying is that it’s useful when you’re trying to “win” an discussion, but not useful when you’re trying not to”lose” a discussion?

  104. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Tar

    I’m not going to get sucked in to the records argument because that is irrelevant to this discussion.

    Nor am I trying to spin anything. Really you are trying to spin Jeters season by cherry picking a statistic he led SS in.

    But what does it really tell us? Does it mean he had a good year? No. Does it mean he was the best SS? No.

    He led all of MLB in PA. Something even Randy says he had no business doing.

    Scutaro had the 2nd most hits for a SS. Does that mean anything? He also had 45 less PA than Jeter.

    So the question is, what does him leading SS in hits tell us? What kind of value does citing that have? What does it say about him relevant to other SS?

  105. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 6:46 pm

    Joe from LI and blake -

    Exactly how I feel about Vazquez. I really wanted it to work out. Sometimes wishing can’t make it so, though…

  106. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    I don’t think anyone has ever said BA is useless.

    In this context it is incedibly useful. In other discussions I believe other statistics are more useful.

    Nice try again though. Each time it gets funnier.

  107. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    I too hope that Vazquez is in the hunt for the NL Cy Young. He seemed like a good guy, and although he didn’t like it, went to the pen and did good work. For what ever reason, after the first half of 2004, he just couldn’t make it happen in pinstripes.

  108. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    LGY November 28th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
    I don’t think anyone has ever said BA is useless.

    In this context it is incedibly useful. In other discussions I believe other statistics are more useful.

    Nice try again though. Each time it gets funnier.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Really? Perhaps you need a tutoring lesson from the Jerk that you drooled all over to agree with last night. Him and the rest of the sabergeeks, as well as you.

    Anyway, I’ll just sit here and laugh at you trying to squirm out of this.

  109. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    LGY -

    Well, I had the same thought.

    It seems like (it may not be, but it sure seems like) numbers people keep moving the line, if you will.

  110. pat November 28th, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    “we?ll never know unless he writes a book someday when he?s done playing.”

    Book is written through last season and is currently being shopped for fuure publication.

  111. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    pat November 28th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
    “we?ll never know unless he writes a book someday when he?s done playing.”

    Book is written through last season and is currently being shopped for fuure publication

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Forward by Joe Torre or Alex Rodriguez?

  112. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Oy vey GB.

    You should really just give to one of these days.

    If you can find a quote from someone that says BA is useless ill kiss you.

  113. Tar November 28th, 2010 at 7:09 pm

    “So the question is, what does him leading SS in hits tell us? What kind of value does citing that have? What does it say about him relevant to other SS?”

    It tells me that even a bad year from Jeter is better than a vast majority of SS.

    It also tells me that even with a bad LD% or GB% or any other stat that you want to “cherry pick” he still was able to out hit all other SS. Some by a large margin.

    Also did it ever occur to that all those extra PA worked against Jeter? No of course not.

    Do you remember Andy just a couple of years ago, pitching extra innings late in the season, through injuries, to help the team? How did that help Andy’s stats or negotiations the next year?

    The blog traffic against Andy was very similar to this year against Jeter.

    How did that work out for the majority then?

    That’s it for me.

    Have a nice night.

  114. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    MP

    Overall offensive contribution or even talking about Jeters season at all other stats are much more useful and much better than BA.

    But all I was doing was responding directtly to TAr. He is literally talking about just the number of hits. Not the type of hits or anything. Just hits. Which is what BA measures so there is no point to go beyond that.

  115. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 7:27 pm

    New Post —>


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