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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The Yankees alternatives at shortstop

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 28, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Let’s say a deal never gets done. The unthinkable happens and Derek Jeter spends the next three years playing in San Francisco or St. Louis or Minnesota. If the Yankees have to fill a hole at shortstop, they have three options.

alg_nunez_homer-450x350Look internally
I’m going to immediately dismiss the idea of Alex Rodriguez shifting back to shortstop. His lower half isn’t what it used to be, he hasn’t played the position in years and moving him only opens a hole at third base. If the Yankees are looking internally, their two options are Ramiro Pena and Eduardo Nunez.

Pena is the safe choice: Exceptional defense, pretty good speed and almost no bat. There’s comfort there, but no excitement. He is what he is. Nunez brings potential: He could be a solid defensive player with a legitimate bottom-of-the-order bat, or he could bust at the big league level. He’s untested, but the Yankees are billing him as a future everyday shortstop. Given the alternative, my guess is Nunez would be the guy.

The free agent market
Cristian Guzman, Orlando Cabrera, Bobby Crosby, Adam Everett and Cesar Izturis have been everyday shortstops in the past, but there’s a solid chance Nunez would out-play all of them. I love Nick Punto’s glove, but he’s only a slight offensive improvement over Pena.

The best bets out of free agency seem to be Miguel Tejada and Juan Uribe, each of whom might be more of a third baseman at this point (though I’d still rather have them at short than A-Rod). Tejada and Jeter had pretty similar offensive years. Uribe showed power, but hit .248 with a .310 OBP.

Make a trade
Feel free to dream about Troy Tulowitzki or Hanley Ramirez or Elvis Andrus, but those simply don’t seem feasible.  More likely the Yankees would be looking at a group of Jason Bartlett, Stephen Drew or J.J. Hardy. Bartlett might be a tough sell, because that would involve helping the Rays minor league system. There’s a similar problem getting Marco Scutaro out of Boston.

Drew seems to be the best target. He’s a nice mix of youth and experience, and his name is already floating through trade rumors. Plus Brian Cashman and Kevin Towers have a proven relationship and history of making deals. Truth is, there aren’t many elite shortstops in the game — guys who can both hit and field — and the ones who are both good and young, aren’t easy to get.

Associated Press photo of Nunez

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296 Responses to “The Yankees alternatives at shortstop”

  1. Betsy November 28th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    I’m not even considering other options at this point…………..

  2. ac1 November 28th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    jeter isn’t going anywhere, but the idea of moving a-rod back to short has come up here.

    i agree his hip wouldnt allow it anymore, however it wouldnt necessarily leave a hole at 3rd. we have Brandon Laird who plays 3rd, and they have raved about his bat. plus, isn’t it easier to find a 3rd baseman on the market than short?

  3. ac1 November 28th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    by the end of the week, jeter will have a 4/68 contract and once again the yankees will have bid against themselves just to get it over with.

  4. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Since we’re seeing so many comparisons between the Arod and Jeter negotiations and given their similar age and how often they’re the subject of in-fighting among fans…

    I’d be curious to know who fans think will remain productive in MLB longer between Arod and Jeter.

    Which one will break down first?

    Surely Jeter must be asking himself that question.

    If you believe Arod will remain productive longer, what are some reasons?

    If you think Jeter will hold up better, why?

  5. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    I posted two links in the last thread to articles about Jeter’s and the Yankees’ acrimonious negotiations in the past. They fight but have always gotten it done before. This time is a little different, however, since the future is not as bright as it was the last time both sides put pen to paper.

    Stephen Drew? Why not do it anyway, even if they sign Jeter.

  6. ac1 November 28th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    It’s hard to say. A-Rod has leg issues now that seem to keep coming up. But he still put up 125 RBIs this season. Jeter CAN hit for higher average longer, but no guarantee. A-Rod can become DH with his power. Jeter isn’t powerful enough to DH and doesnt seem to be willing to talk about moving to LF.

    I say, A-Rod holds up longer because of the power and the DH possibility.

  7. pat November 28th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Derek will be the opening day SS for the NY Yankees.

    It will never happen as long as Derek and Alex are on the same team because of the firestorm it would start and father time is working against it everyday but it would be interesting to see if Alex could still play SS.

    So many have speculated he could never do it but unless it’s tried, we’ll never know for sure.

  8. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    ac1,

    Fair enough, but one could argue that Jeter’s so-called decline is merely a 1 season blip whereas Arod’s diminished HR power shows up in more of a long-term trend that is also recent.

    Given Arod’s hip and leg issues, one could argue that his rate of decline could plummet depending on the extent of the injury and the possible need for further surgeries down the road while Jeter doesn’t suffer from any severe physical limitations on his ability to hit for average.

  9. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    as Chad said above. Forget Rodriguez at shortstop. Not only is he not used to playing there, but, his flexability isn’t there, and with any issues about his hip, they aren’t going to risk him getting beat up attempting to turn a pivot on the DP. They just need the more than passable defense at 3rd, the average to go with his 30+ homers and 100 RBI+ that he provides for the offense.

    Nunez is the logical answer as far as money goes and he can hit. At worst, he can match jeter’s worse season. Scuaro is no answer at all and Bartlett is even less…just with more speed…regardless of the freak 2009 season. Drew would fit, except for the money and talent it would take to acquire him…starting with a Betances type, a Phelps/mitchell/Noesi and more, such as Laird and a 1st baseman or 2nd baseman for the future. That price is just a step down from what he’d want for Upton.

  10. ac1 November 28th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Bret i agree with that too. There are a lot of variables as to who holds up longer. Personally, i hope they both get back to 100% this year. But i believe with Alex’s power, he can play DH and stay fairly healthy, where Jeter will never have the option to DH full time.

    FYI, i believe jeter last year was a one year thing and he can get back to near .300, while alex may be a .275 hitter for the rest of his career, but that .275 gets 125 rbis and now hits in the clutch, where Jeter seems to have forgotten how to hit in the 9th inning.

  11. Mell November 28th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Hard to say.

    Hip issues don’t go away. Rodriguez will likely be plagued by them to some degree for the balance of his career. Fortunately he’s been such a physical marvel otherwise, that it appears he’s going to be able to overcome it for awhile anyway.

    Jeter has also kept himself in good shape and has had no serious injuries, but age catches up to everyone sooner or later.

  12. ac1 November 28th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    this is all conversation because Jeter will be at SS next year and for 3 years after that (at least).

  13. amfinfin November 28th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    3 + 1 with incentives based both on performance triggers and a milestones. 68-70M. Happens on Wednesday

  14. pat November 28th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    GB

    After all we’ve been through, now you get cranky on me! :wink:

    I want to see it more so people will stop speculating he can or can’t. I wasn’t suggesting Alex is the best alternative. Think of it like a science experiment!

  15. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    “I say, A-Rod holds up longer because of the power and the DH possibility.”

    lean guys like jeter age better.

    i wouldn’t be surprised if alex is out of the game by the time he’s 40.

  16. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    It’s almost certain that Jeter is the Yankees best option for 2011 and maybe 2012, beyond that it’s uncertain, and the Yankees reported offer compensates him very well for that. But if somehow Jeter moves on, the Yankees will use the money they would have spent on Jeter somewhere else, and they will be fine.

  17. MTU November 28th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Pat-

    Science experiment ?

    Huh, I thought that was Levine.

    Half Man half pencil eraser.

  18. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    gb7-

    you like alex’s play at third?

    i think he’s a slacker there.

    he should be a lot better.

  19. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    “lean guys like jeter age better.”

    You have to use their average level of production in any comparison, and using that as a baseline, A-Rod can fall a lot further and still be a far more productive player offense/defense.

  20. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    pat November 28th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
    GB

    After all we’ve been through, now you get cranky on me!

    I want to see it more so people will stop speculating he can or can’t. I wasn’t suggesting Alex is the best alternative. Think of it like a science experiment!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I swear on my great-great-great-great grandfather’s mother’s brother’s wife’s sister’s grave that I never saw your response.

  21. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Ace1,

    Arod definitely stands to benefit from the DH option so if his decline happens more rapidly than Jeter’s, Arod could be rested at the DH spot whereas although Jeter may currently be a gold glove shortstop, he doesn’t hit for enough power for DH.

    Furthermore, having already committed 30 million/per for Arod, the Yankees likely want to keep that option for Arod which in effect forces Jeter into the field.

    However, once Arod becomes the DH (keeping in mind Arod’s defensive decline or hip issues may push him there before Jeter is fully diminished at shortstop), Jeter could be moved to 3b like Ripken.

    I definitely think Jeter feels he can be valuable and outlast Arod in the field and at the plate.

    Therefore wants a contract that, like Arod’s, runs through age 42.

    It’s possible that Arod may be on the DL for the last 3-5 years of his contract, so Jeter might play longer even though his contract with the Yankees is likely to end before Arod’s.

  22. jnorthup November 28th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    I am one yankee fan that believes that management is squeezing jeter out and for what ever reason only they know. All the bad deals they made in the past and now they are afraid to make moves and spend money, aj burnet for one, This is thier fathers money they have and they do not want to spend it you see it the last few years, this is the beginning of the end of yankees being on top, This management is bad for new york,it is a business I believe they call it, it s all how to hold on to papa’s money. End of story. The days of the yankees taking care of thier own are gone now.

  23. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    rich in nj-

    just out of curiosity,what does the sabermetric world think of arod’s defense at third ?

  24. jnorthup November 28th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    yes pay this guys millions for what, and then they complain about jeter go figure????

  25. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    randy

    That he’s declining, like Jeter at SS, but even in a down year, his OPS+ was still 123.

  26. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    I want to see it more so people will stop speculating he can or can’t. I wasn’t suggesting Alex is the best alternative. Think of it like a science experiment!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    As long as it wasn’t one of my science experiments, I just don’t believe Rodriguez has the mobility/flexability to play there any more. He’s huge in the upper body. Jeter’s big, but not like that. Losing that bat would be a killer (and not talking about my dog, “Killer” either).

  27. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    “However, once Arod becomes the DH (keeping in mind Arod’s defensive decline or hip issues may push him there before Jeter is fully diminished at shortstop), Jeter could be moved to 3b like Ripken.”

    i could see that.

  28. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    It takes a lean horse to win a long race, my Irish grandmother always said. I tend to agree with randy l about A-Rod’s physicality. That’s something I have said about Pujols for a while too. He’s built like a football player and IMO, will therefore be looking at the AL shortly for the possibility of the DH role to extend his career.

    A-Rod’s average will likely dip but he may be able to maintain his output for a while and be a credible DH. Jeter was never a power hitter, has already lost range and will certainly be victim to nagging injuries from hereon out. He has no credible shot at DH. I also agree with randy that A-Rod has been less than stellar at 3d, whether he was protecting himself or was nursing a minor injury.

  29. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Good teams have power at the corners. Jeter would be a bad fit at 3B, and it remains to be seen whether or not he is better than A-Rod there, now or ever.

  30. David in Cal November 28th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    The idea that ARod and Jeter are comparable players makes sense only in Jeter’s conceited brain. When both played SS, ARod was the better fielder. As base-runners their number of stolen bases and % of caught stealing are very close. But, as hitters, they’re not in the same ballpark. Lifetime OPS+

    Jeter — 119
    ARod – 145

    Jeter will reach 3000 hits, which is nice. ARod will also reach 3000 hits. In addition, he’s likely to end his career #1 in home runs. There’s some chance he could also finish #1 in RBIs and #1 in runs scored.

  31. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
    “I say, A-Rod holds up longer because of the power and the DH possibility.”

    lean guys like jeter age better.

    i wouldn’t be surprised if alex is out of the game by the time he’s 40.

    ************

    It’s true because leaner guys tend to possess more flexibility.

    It’s easy for me to envision Alex out of the game by 40 (as in off-the field and on the DL but still under contract). He looks like a statue at 3b sometimes. Perhaps more revealing of the future we’re already seeing Arod tripping to the DL on nearly a yearly basis.

    At the same time, it’s tough for me, and I know this is an eyeball test, to picture Jeter out of the game at 40. He’s a lean, agile, well conditioned, contact hitter with no injury history and a proven track record of durability.

  32. jnorthup November 28th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Lets face it if Mr. Steinbrenner was still here, jeter would be signed and mo too, and lee would be in New york Right now.

  33. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    gb7-

    you like alex’s play at third?

    i think he’s a slacker there.

    he should be a lot better.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I’m satified with his defense, though he’s not as mobile as he was even 3 years ago. he’s certainly better than Larry Jones has been over the last 4-5 years. Like the rest of the infield, he’s sure handed and consistant, and still has a rifle arm. Ron Cey wasn’t exactly Clete Boyer at 3rd base and he helped anchor that Dodger infield for over 10 years.

  34. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    “Lets face it if Mr. Steinbrenner was still here, jeter would be signed and mo too, and lee would be in New york Right now.”

    You should also face this: The George of an earlier era may have traded Jeter when he was a prospect, so your point might be moot.

  35. 108 stitches November 28th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Jeter’s declining shortstop play will clearly show up when he hits the age of 38. He also needs to swallow some pride and consult with Kevin Long at various times.
    Part of the reason why Eduardo Nunez should be used in 2011 whenever the opportunity presents itself.

  36. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    rich in nj-

    at the rate his OPS+ is trending downward, alex will likely be down around a 100OPS+ in 2011.

    he’s losing about 15 points of OPS+ a year the past four years.

    (…gb7, you have any idea what OPS+ is? me neither, but alex is losing it)

  37. MDD2 November 28th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Does anyone have a link to the Giants game? I’m stuck with Buffalo.

  38. RhapsodyInBlue November 28th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    “Lets face it if Mr. Steinbrenner was still here, jeter would be signed and mo too, and lee would be in New york Right now.”

    Like with Bernie Williams going to Boston?

    The truth of the matter is any player is only worth what the market will bear, I don’t care who it is. The stark reality is that the best offer out there for Jeter is from the Yankees.

    Great players get old and get paid less as they age, it happens all the time and has throughout baseball history.

  39. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
    rich in nj-

    at the rate his OPS+ is trending downward, alex will likely be down around a 100OPS+ in 2011.

    he’s losing about 15 points of OPS+ a year the past four years.

    (…gb7, you have any idea what OPS+ is? me neither, but alex is losing it)

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Oatmeal, prunes and suppositories plus other things?

  40. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    gb7-

    you mean chipper jones. had to look up the larry reference.

  41. jnorthup November 28th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    I dont see A rod becoming #1 in home runs, I believe the hip surgery will now slow him down, If I had runners on base I would go with jeter over A rod any day

  42. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Yeah, Randy. That’s the guy. I just can’t make myself call a 37 year old guy “Chipper”.

  43. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    David in Cal November 28th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
    The idea that ARod and Jeter are comparable players makes sense only in Jeter’s conceited brain.

    David: I’m not necessarily taking Jeter’s side, but the argument isn’t Sabrmetric. It’s that Jeter’s been a Yankee all his life, has won five rings, has been the face of the team, helped re-make the legend of the Yankees, is the team Captain, and is a bona fide, first ballot HOF who didn’t do PEDs or opt out of his contract. If the Yankees say A-Rod is worth X in his last contract, Jeter has to be worth X+

  44. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

    randy

    I hated the A-Rod contract; Cashman was against hit, but was overruled.

    That contract should caution making another mistake, rather than argue in favor of making another one.

    OPS+ is league and park adjusted OPS, with 100 being average, and any increment above or below being a percentage from average. So, for example, Jeter’s 90 OPS+ in 2010 was 10% below league average.

  45. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    “That’s the guy. I just can’t make myself call a 37 year old guy “Chipper”.”

    gb7-

    i get you.

    i’m having trouble calling a 28 year old guy ” jerkface”.

    though , i m seeing the logic of it more and more.

  46. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    rich, thanks on the OPS+ lesson.

    isn’t it alarming that arod’s OPS+ is trending downward so rapidly?

  47. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    I suspect “Jerface” is the victim of video game addiction. It’s the only explanation for brain rot.

  48. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Does OPS+ account for wind currents for the year, other weather issues field conditions?

  49. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    “That’s the guy. I just can’t make myself call a 37 year old guy “Chipper”.”

    gb7-

    i get you.

    i’m having trouble calling a 28 year old guy ” jerkface”.

    though , i m seeing the logic of it more and more.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    True. Always a reason for the obvious.

  50. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    “Does OPS+ account for wind currents for the year, other weather issues field conditions?”

    Yes, in the sense that every home park stats are compared with road park stats in order to determine the necessary adjustments, so any factors that caused any disparity in park effects is part of the equation.

  51. Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    randy

    Of course, it’s alarming.

  52. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    I’m having trouble finding the article I was looking for about the Yankee way, but in my search, I’m running across some interesting tidbits.

    Like – Austin Romine, among others, saying that is very difficult to see the ball at Waterfront Park in Trenton because of some signage around the batter’s eye (ironically, a sign advertising an eye doctor). It’s been a problem since 2007, and some changes were made, but not enough to make a difference.

  53. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    “Rich in NJ November 28th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
    That contract should caution making another mistake, rather than argue in favor of making another one.”

    I agree that in any other context it doesn’t get truer than that.

    In my experience, however, Labor negotiations are a world unto themselves. Lawyer friends who practice in the field sometimes refer to their work as the law of hurt feelings.

  54. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    It is sad Randy has to constantly bash Alex, the greatest Yankee player of this generation and one of the greatest players to ever wear the pubstripes, in order to try to make his silly points about Jeter.

  55. LGY November 28th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    *pinstripes*

  56. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    What was the weather like on June 25th, 1948 in Detroit? I’m only asking because King James seems to have all of the amswers for you guys.

    Sorry, but weather and field conditions aren’t included in that any more than they’re considered in fielding numbers.

  57. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    “GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    What was the weather like on June 25th, 1948 in Detroit? I’m only asking because King James seems to have all of the amswers for you guys.”

    That would be King William James, the ex-security guard at the potato chip factory?

  58. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    I like pubstripes better.

  59. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    MP, that’s a tough park for tight handed hitters, though, Romine made those remarks during a deep slump. Probably some truth to it, but Laird had less issues with it and Montero had even less the year before. I think the said it was the color of that one sign that may have caused issues. It’ll be interesting to see what Romine does in Scranton, and if he’s there, Laird.

  60. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    randy l is showing magnificent restraint not rising to LGY’s bait.

  61. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Board waters are often laced with LGY chum.

  62. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    FWIW:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  63. David in Cal November 28th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    GB7 – An explanation of how Baseball Reference calculates OPS+ is at http://www.baseball-reference......sary.shtml
    As best I can make out, OPS+ includes an annual park factor. This factor adjusts for how well batters hit in each park during a given year. Presumably, this would reflect wind currents for the year and other weather issues and field conditions.

    Unfortunately, the formula is complicated and I haven’t followed it through. So, I’m taking it on faith that the adjustments do a good job of measuring by what amount each park hellped or hindered hitting.

  64. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
    “GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    What was the weather like on June 25th, 1948 in Detroit? I’m only asking because King James seems to have all of the amswers for you guys.”

    That would be King William James, the ex-security guard at the potato chip factory?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    That’s one reason that I can’t take these numbers seriously. Until they start using all of the things that can affect a certain play or game, it’s not totally useless, but not close to being accurate, either.

  65. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    lgy-

    i’ve never paid much attention to alex before. you will be hard pressed to find many alex comments over the past three years from me. i was however impressed when he started going up the middle last year with runners on base and mentioned that.

    with all the vitriol going towards jeter from people with your absurd jeter position , it caused me to look at cot’s to see alex’s contract.

    i gotta admit.
    the yankees are really screwed with alex’s contract, so i can see why they are trying to get jeter cheap.

    did you know that alex has a personal services contract for home run milestones( that are tainted now so one cares ) that give him .666 percent of what the yankees are offering jeter for his whole contract.

    now that’s just not right.

  66. Giuseppe Franco November 28th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Kind of ironic that LGY would point the finger at Randy for his A-Rod bashing when he’s done little more than make an Olympic sport out of Jeter bashing the last couple of weeks.

    I’m not a fan of bashing either player myself.

  67. G. Love November 28th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    I was sure I would someone say move Arod to SS and sign Beltre to play 3b for less annual average money than Jeter will cost.

    I wonder if Boras is telling Beltre to sit tight to see if this Jeter negotiation goes the way Torre and Damon’s did and Derek walks away cutting his nose off to spite his face.

    That said, I’m not endorsing that move since I don’t think Arod could play SS. He was like a wooden indian at 3b towards the end of the year. I can’t imagine him going into the hole and picking it unless he leaned himself out tremendously during this off season.

    Just to put things in perspective though, you could sign Beltre to play 3b for less per year than Jeter and Beltre is a plus defender with power in his prime.

    That’s the reality check Jeter needs to have. When there are statistically better players than you working for less and you are demanding more because of your celebrity, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that the team decides to save a few bucks and get a better offensive player rather than cave into your ridiculous demands.

    I like the Yankees playing hardball here. They’re being generous, but not stupid and for once I applaud them. Jeter’s been paid for what he has done here. In fact, he was grossly overpaid for last season.

    Take the 45 million or negotiate a one year deal to rebuild your value if the Yankees would offer that and you believe in yourself enough that you’ll bounce back in a big way.

    If I were him I’d take the 45 guaranteed though since the Yankees can’t not pay you that money even if you stink once the contract is signed.

    I think he has 2 years left at SS and then one year as a bench player. Getting 15 million for that final season probably riding the bench and breaking in a new SS is a very nice watch at the retirement party, although I’m sure the Yankees will lavish him with other gifts like cars and stuff (like he needs it) as the career comes to an end.

  68. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    “randy l is showing magnificent restraint not rising to LGY’s bait.”

    when i’m quiet, it means i’m up to something.

  69. MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    GB7 -

    Agreed about seeing what Romine does in Scranton. I’m really pulling for Laird to be with the big team, but I can see him starting the season at SWB.

    Vecchionacci was another player they mentioned in the signage article. It seemed to have to do with seeing the ball out of the hand of righthanders.

    I looked at the Trenton schedule, hoping they’d have a few 11 a.m. games during the week. No such luck. There are a couple, but they’re not early in the season. When I went to Lakewood to see the River Dogs when they came to play it was an 11 a.m. game and it worked out very well for me. I got home in time for the school bus. It was nice seeing a game by myself. Actually, Trenton’s playing a lot of night games. They’ve been getting nice crowds there the last couple of years.

  70. Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    In the competition for fastest receding hairline, it’s a statistical dead heat.

    Jeter and Arod both have 5-heads instead of foreheads.

    This will be one to watch.

  71. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    “GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:30 pm: That’s one reason that I can’t take these numbers seriously. Until they start using all of the things that can affect a certain play or game, it’s not totally useless, but not close to being accurate, either.”

    To me they are useful just because they present information in a different way. I probably use them mostly as a check against my eyeballs/gut and vice versa. They are only shorthand or indicators instead of the full story.

  72. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    David in Cal November 28th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
    GB7 – An explanation of how Baseball Reference calculates OPS+ is at http://www.baseball-reference……sary.shtml
    As best I can make out, OPS+ includes an annual park factor. This factor adjusts for how well batters hit in each park during a given year. Presumably, this would reflect wind currents for the year and other weather issues and field conditions.

    Unfortunately, the formula is complicated and I haven’t followed it through. So, I’m taking it on faith that the adjustments do a good job of measuring by what amount each park hellped or hindered hitting.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Just using wind currents for example. How many times have you watched a game in NY and the wind changes speed and direction multiple times in a game. Or on defense, the pitcher misses his spot and the defense is playing the expected location, only to see the ball fly through the vacated spot where defense would be if that was the correct pitch or location. Just too many variables are left out that no matrix can answer…only eyes and judgement.

  73. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Rush? How was Phil Hughes rushed? He was drafted in 2004 and came up in 2007. He’s 31 and 18 in his career to date. I hope they rush more like him.

    Phil Hughes: 31-18 (51 starts)

    Bob Gibson: 19-23 (48 starts)

    Tom Seaver: 32-25 (69 starts)

    Sandy Koufax: 20-21 (54 starts)

  74. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    “randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
    “randy l is showing magnificent restraint not rising to LGY’s bait.”

    “when i’m quiet, it means i’m up to something.”

    I just figured you were in the potty.

  75. dan l November 28th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    It seems that everyone forget that the Yankees have won the World Series with many rookies playing considerable time at SS.

    Jeter, Rizzuto, Crosetti, Kubek, and Tresh…so why can’t they win with Nunez?

  76. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    “I just figured you were in the potty.”

    no, murphydog, you’re getting me mixed up with gb7.

  77. West Coast Yankee Fan November 28th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Vazquez is a Marlin.

  78. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    # randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:41 pm:
    “I just figured you were in the potty.”
    no, murphydog, you’re getting me mixed up with gb7.”

    Check. My bad.

  79. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    “Jeter, Rizzuto, Crosetti, Kubek, and Tresh…so why can’t they win with Nunez?”

    Because Nunez probably isn’t going to be Jeter, Rizzuto, Crosetti, Kubek, and Tresh.

  80. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    MorningPerson November 28th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
    GB7 -

    Agreed about seeing what Romine does in Scranton. I’m really pulling for Laird to be with the big team, but I can see him starting the season at SWB.

    Vecchionacci was another player they mentioned in the signage article. It seemed to have to do with seeing the ball out of the hand of righthanders.

    I looked at the Trenton schedule, hoping they’d have a few 11 a.m. games during the week. No such luck. There are a couple, but they’re not early in the season. When I went to Lakewood to see the River Dogs when they came to play it was an 11 a.m. game and it worked out very well for me. I got home in time for the school bus. It was nice seeing a game by myself. Actually, Trenton’s playing a lot of night games. They’ve been getting nice crowds there the last couple of years.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I remember Trenton playing a string of 11:00 Am games, but mostly on the road where the teams had long bus trips ahead. Never been to Lakewood, but spend a lot of time going to Charleston and Savannah since by boat, it’s only about 30 miles or so. I go to those that aren’t more than 100-150 miles away, unless the team really needs my help.

  81. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Bret The Hitman November 28th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
    In the competition for fastest receding hairline, it’s a statistical dead heat.

    Jeter and Arod both have 5-heads instead of foreheads.

    This will be one to watch.
    _______________________
    On for the saber crew, Alex and Jeter were tied for 9th in WAR.

  82. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    *And* and 9th in WAR, each at their respective positions.

  83. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    You can’t figure Koufax into much of anything in the early part of his career. No minor league experience, not a lot of high school pitching, he was 18 years old and rarely pitched for 2 years. Because he was classified as a bonus baby, he had to spend the first year on the ML bench. That killed his early development. Not only that, he wasn;t really that fond of baseball back then. He went to the U of Cinncy on a basketball scholarship, his preferred sport.

  84. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
    I remember Trenton playing a string of 11:00 Am games, but mostly on the road where the teams had long bus trips ahead. Never been to Lakewood, but spend a lot of time going to Charleston and Savannah since by boat, it’s only about 30 miles or so. I go to those that aren’t more than 100-150 miles away, unless the team really needs my help.
    ___________________________
    They play the 11AM games in Trenton as well. I have attended quite a few, and the sun is so brutal that I have stopped attending. Also in those games, no one on either team can hit the ball it is so friggin’ hot and they are so fatigued from playing the night before.

  85. jacksquat November 28th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Sadly, I think Nunez is pretty capable of matching or exceding what Jeter did last year with the bat, and would probably would be better overall defensively (more errors but more range).

    And even if he came up a little short with the bat, that’s $15mil+ that could be used to improve the team elsewhere, which could more than make up for it.

    Someone cold hearted would probably let Jeter walk at this point.

  86. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    I don’t know about that, I just mainly remember the road games. Having not been there, not sure of playing consyions unless the games pop up on MILB-TV.com.

  87. RSM November 28th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Jacksquat,
    That’s what I’ve been saying all along.
    Plus, you left out that Nunez will steal more bases.
    I find it comical that people are demonizing the Yankees. They made Jeter a VERY generous offer. Every other team in this situation would let Jeter walk, take the draft picks, and start Nunez next season.

  88. KennyH123 November 28th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Fun conversation, but completely pointless. Jeter is the starting SS next year. Zero chance that’s it’s anyone else.

  89. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Yanks gain a draft pick now that the Marlins signed Vazquez to a 1 year deal.

    Cashman also picked up some of jeter’s contract money from the $1.2 mil sale of Jonathan Albaladejo to Japan.

    •Within the same piece, King says the Yomiuri Giants sent the Yankees $1.2MM for Jonathan Albaladejo, who finalized a one-year deal with the Japanese club yesterday.

  90. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    “Every other team in this situation would let Jeter walk, take the draft picks, and start Nunez next season.”

    Except that no other team wears pinstripes and is expected to win the World Series every year. Things are different in the Bronx.

  91. BBFan November 28th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Girardi is the one who will pay price with potenital declining play of Jeter in the future.
    I think next year, Jeter will be a full-time SS and Girardi will yield to his pride to play every day.
    However, if Jeter’s play keeps diminishing, then 2012 will be an interesting season when Girardi will have no choice but to bench Jeter a few days a month for the good of the team.

  92. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    “Within the same piece, King says the Yomiuri Giants sent the Yankees $1.2MM for Jonathan Albaladejo, who finalized a one-year deal with the Japanese club yesterday.”

    And Randy Levine already used $500,000 of that to light his cigars :)

  93. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    LMAO. Murph,

    Shifty Lazzar…..Brian Cashman sold him for more money than Albaladejo gets for pitching.

  94. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Back in 1996, Jeter wouldn’t have been the starting shortstop. he’d get broken in the same way that Nunez will be. Only a season ending injury to Fernandez during ST allowed Jeter to get the job. A fortuitive break (literally) for NYYs and Jeter.

  95. murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    “Shifty Lazzar…..Brian Cashman sold him for more money than Albaladejo gets for pitching.”

    Did he sell him intact or organ by organ? I hear you can get a lot of money for a kidney. But of all the organs a lawyer’s heart is the most expensive – because it’s never been used ;)

  96. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    “However, if Jeter’s play keeps diminishing, then 2012 will be an interesting season when Girardi will have no choice but to bench Jeter a few days a month for the good of the team.”

    giradi should rest jeter anyway.

    jeter’s value at this point in his career is if he’s peaking in sept and oct

  97. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    murphydog November 28th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
    “Shifty Lazzar…..Brian Cashman sold him for more money than Albaladejo gets for pitching.”

    Did he sell him intact or organ by organ? I hear you can get a lot of money for a kidney. But of all the organs a lawyer’s heart is the most expensive – because it’s never been used

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Can’t use what you ain’t got. I’d think that a lawyer’s guts would be wore out, considering what it must take to pull off some of those tricks and deals.

  98. just_another_handle November 28th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    Does anyone ever ask themselves why a persumably healthy young man in his mid-30′s, has never been married?

    Is that person so self-centered that they can’t fathom sharing themselves with another person in an intimate 1 on 1 relationship for more than a few days?

    Is there something more that is not known to the public in general?

  99. sotospeaks November 28th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    Lets make a trade for Reyes!!!!!

  100. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    “Is there something more that is not known to the public in general?”

    i think you just let the public know you are a dim bulb.

  101. yankeefeminista November 28th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    Again, equating Jeter’s 2011 numbers with his 2010 production is foolhardy. There is nothing to indicate he will put up those aberrational 2010 numbers. Even the saber militants who have been harping on Jeter’s 2010 numbers have been intentionally remiss by not mentioning that Jeter’s 2010 BABIP is 50 points lower than his career BABIP, indicating that Jeter’s 2010 numbers should go up in 2011, not go down or stay the same.

  102. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    Randy,

    Did you expect more from some clown that trolls a baseball board….in late November?

  103. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    The quality and originality for trolls has certainly gone into the dumper over the last couple of years.

  104. randy l. November 28th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    gb7-

    there have been some entertaining ones.

    remember officer toody from ny

  105. GreenBeret7 November 28th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    LMAO. Toody was an idiot, but, a funny idiot.

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