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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


As secondary pieces fall, Lee remains at the top

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 30, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The free agent market really doesn’t offer the Yankees a backup plan should Cliff Lee sign elsewhere. Lee is the only proven ace on the market, with every other starter being either a complimentary piece or an ace-like talent with significant injury concerns.

Jorge De La Rosa has now re-signed with Colorado, which is also on the verge of a long-term deal with Troy Tulowitzki.

Jake Westbrook is back with St. Louis, Javier Vazquez is in Florida and Jon Garland is with the Dodgers.

Secondary pieces are coming off the board and the Yankees still have an obvious need for starting pitching. But they can’t put any sort of Plan B into action until they know what’s happening with Lee and Andy Pettitte. It’s not as if anyone who has signed already would have been a viable replacement for one of those two, anyway.

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466 Responses to “As secondary pieces fall, Lee remains at the top”

  1. MTU November 30th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Plan B:

    Big trade

    or

    Gavin Floyd/Billingsley + cc

    :)

    But we won’t need it. ;)

  2. Mike Ri November 30th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    i hope your right MTU !

  3. MTU November 30th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Mike-

    Me too !

    :)

  4. Chip November 30th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
    How badly were the Yankees hurt with Logan our only loogy in 2010? Are we liking the idea of surrendering draft picks?

    ————————————
    You don’t have to surrender draft picks to sign Feliciano or Choate

  5. Yankee Mike November 30th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    So Tulowitzki’s new extension brings him to 10 years, $157 million.

    Methinks Jeter better re-think his negotiating strategy. The Yankees’ offer just got MUCH more attractive.

  6. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Yup I was aware. I was referring to the comment about Scott Downs.

  7. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Nice, concise, crisp article by Tyler Kepner on Mariano and Jeter. No hyperbole just a rational description of the landscape for both.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11…..p;emc=ura5

  8. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    Bad link sorry:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11.....8;emc=ura5

  9. Chip November 30th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    If no Lee and/or no Andy:

    Sign Carl Crawford with the money allocated to them and then use Gardner and a top prospect to land a pitcher.

    I don’t like Gavin Floyd much but wouldn’t scoff at Edinson Volquez (even if he is off steroids) or Fausto Carmona

  10. Chip November 30th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    Yup I was aware. I was referring to the comment about Scott Downs.

    ——————————–

    If the Yankees sign another Type A or two (say Lee and Crawford) I wouldn’t blink before giving up a second or third round pick for Downs.

    The Yankees are getting a compensation round pick for Javy and can go above slot to get second or third round talent later in the draft.

  11. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Downs is going to be 35 years old, he makes $4 mil a year now. He won’t be asking for less than 4 years and a minimum of $6-$7 mil a year plus a top draft pick. He’s not worth that cost.

  12. Erin November 30th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    YankeesWFAN Ryan and the Rangers denied recruiting call to Pettitte. Still think its Yanks or retire. Still be surprised if he retires off last yr.

  13. Erin November 30th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    :lol:

    RiverAveBlues Uhhhhh RT @eboland11: Brian Cashman to rappel down Connecticut building in elf costume http://bit.ly/eUXbwy. Top that sentence

  14. Tom in N.J. November 30th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    It’d be better if Cashman wore his Nacho Libre costume.

  15. MTU November 30th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Erin-

    OK.

    Why ?

    Because Cliff Lee is in that building.

    :)

  16. Tom in N.J. November 30th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    If Ryan made a recruitment pitch to Pettitte after the ALCS, regardless of who initiated the call, that’s tampering.

  17. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    According to reports, Pettiitte initiated the call to Ryan to congratulate him. Apparently, Pettitte has a piece of the action with the Round Rock Express with Ryan.

  18. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    Lee either wants to play here or he doesn’t. If he does, he can expect to be extraordinarily well-compensated. That’s why I think he will be a Yankee, but if for some reason he doesn’t want to play here, the Yankees will be fine.

  19. Chip November 30th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Rich -

    The Rangers have already acknowledged that if the Yankees want Lee they’re going to get Lee. My guess is that in private conversations with him and his agents their attempts to appeal to some loyalty he might have to the Rangers fell on deaf ears.

  20. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Curts Grand will be traded this offseason for a pitcher. Laird will take an outfield spot and bash 20 plus homers this year for the big club.

  21. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    yawn

  22. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Cashman should tell Jete that the offer is now at 14.5 mill/year for three years. It’s the only way to handle Mr. Ego.

  23. Mell November 30th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    “My guess is that in private conversations with him and his agents their attempts to appeal to some loyalty he might have to the Rangers fell on deaf ears”

    It’s hard to hear over the cash register ringing in his head.

  24. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    You get more boring with every remark, troll

  25. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Prediction: Jeter will try get shares in an ownership position with the NYY put into his contract to negate what he perceives as a paltry 15 mill salary.

  26. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    “Prediction: Jeter will try get shares in an ownership position with the NYY put into his contract to negate what he perceives as a paltry 15 mill salary.”

    That would violate the CBA.

  27. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Amazing, Javy Vasquez wasn’t signed by Cash. Maybe the blue eyed wonder actually learns from his mistakes? Does this mean in 4 years he won’t re-sign Nick Johnson? Two great signings!

  28. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    “It’s been a really disappointing season for me,” Vazquez said right before the playoffs. “My stuff this year has probably been the worst that I’ve had ever in my career.”

    What a surprise! Funny how nobody saw it coming.

  29. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    There is a reason the Yankees are hell bent on signing Lee. If the don’t, their rotation is fraught with peril at best.

    Lots of talk about trading for a pitcher. Much easier said then done. What pitcher? What do you give up?

    Regarding the talk about signing Crawford or Werth and then trading an outfielder for pitching. Odds are Crawford and Werth will be gone to the Angels and Sox respectively. And, what are you really going to get for Gardner, Granderson or Swisher? And how many prime prospects do you need to add to that package?

    Most clubs would value their good pitching over an outfielder. Toug to make happen.

  30. Tom in N.J. November 30th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    So. Very. Stupid.

  31. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    “New York Yankees (Share of Players’ Pool: $6,588,259.73; value of each full share: $110,302.97) – The Yankees awarded 43 full shares, 15.75 partial shares and 1 cash award.”

    What is the ownership/management share?

  32. BIG AL November 30th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Jeter signs with the SF Giants

    Mo retires

    NY Yankees go 162-0 in 2010

    Any more crap worth talking about.

    Hate to see of you folks at a BBQ, everything would be so over cooked, it wouldn’t be worth eating.

  33. Bronx Jeers November 30th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    RiverAveBlues Uhhhhh RT @eboland11: Brian Cashman to rappel down Connecticut building in elf costume http://bit.ly/eUXbwy. Top that sentence

    ———————————————————————————————–

    How about….

    “Brian Cashman to rappel down Connecticut building in elf costume, Jeter to hold rope”

  34. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Francesa is particularly stupid today.

  35. 86w183 November 30th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Secondary starting pitchers cost way too much relative to their value. If Pettite comes back the Yanks can go into 2011 with CC, Andy, Hughes, Burnett and Nova/youngster and be very competitive. Lee would be a great get, but using that cash to upgrade OF, defense and bullpen wouldn’t be the end of the world.

    If they signed Crawford for example, how good of a starter can you get for Gardner/Nova or Gardner/Noesi? What if you add Romine to that?

    Just because Scott Downs “asks” for or “wants” $ 6 M plus doesn’t mean he is going to get it.

    Vazquez was not a “signing” he was a trade acquisition that also included Boone Logan. If you are going to sling mud at least know what the hell you’re talking about.

  36. DaSaint007 November 30th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    So the needs are starting rotation and bullpen and it’s clear that pieces are coming off the board. While Lee is still there, what’s the backup for the rotation?

    Let’s skip that for now, and do the easier exercise. Who’s a possible target that’s still available for the bullpen? Will Cashman pay 4M/year for a reliever – again? Something tells me no, unless he’s clearly a key piece. He’s been burned twice on long term deals for the pen.

    Cash is after a lefty:
    Would Fuentes be worth it?
    Ohman?
    Hisanori Takahashi?
    Randy Choate?
    Take a chance on a Talor Tankersley?

    Frankly, I’d try to trade with Detroit again, and get Coke back. He’s got a good arm, can give you some length, and already knows the organization. Shouldn’t cost more than a couple minor league pieces. Or Joba.

  37. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Tex needs to produce earlier and later in the season. What’s up with the annual slow start and late season flame out?

  38. blake November 30th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    WCYF,

    Crawford and Werth will likely wait until after Lee signs to make their decision because they both know that if Lee stays in Texas then the Yankees may become involved and drive their prices up. A trade is easier said than done and I don’t know.exactly who they would target…..but that would be their only option really, which is why they can’t afford to lose out on Lee.

  39. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Re-sign Damon and Godzilla back in 2010 and we win in Texas.

  40. Erin November 30th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Bronx Jeers November 30th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
    How about?.

    ?Brian Cashman to rappel down Connecticut building in elf costume, Jeter to hold rope?

    ******************************
    LOL I think you’ve topped it!

    In that scenario, I would be very nervous if I was Cashman. ;)

  41. Mike Ri November 30th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Rich —

    What did Francessa say ?

  42. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Yanks badly need both Lee and Andy

  43. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    “If Pettite comes back the Yanks can go into 2011 with CC, Andy, Hughes, Burnett and Nova/youngster and be very competitive.”

    That rotation doesn’t thrill me. I keep seeing August and September in my head.

  44. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Looks like the Rangers have signed Lee’s replacement. Ryan plans to covert him to the rotation and make him a left hander with no pitch counts and no innings limits.

    “Rangers Sign Yoshinori Tateyama
    By Tim Dierkes [November 30 at 12:04pm CST]
    The Rangers signed Japanese free agent righty Yoshinori Tateyama to a one-year Major League deal with two club option years, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. Tateyama, 35 next month, posted a 1.80 ERA, 9.7 K/9, 1.8 BB/9, and 0.49 HR/9 in 55 relief innings this year for the Nippon Ham Fighters. He’s primarily a fastball/slider pitcher, wrote NPB Tracker’s Patrick Newman in October. Baseball Prospectus’ Kevin Goldstein tweets a more detailed scouting report”

  45. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    I don’t see any other options for them if Lee goes elsewhere; we talk about the Yanks having the hammer on Jeter? Well Lee has the hammer on them. I admit that at some point, I would just walk away (7 years, for instance), but that would leave the rotation as quite vulnerable.

  46. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    “Rich —

    What did Francessa say ?”
    __

    He thinks it’s ok for the Yankees to waste money on Jeter because they have wasted so much money in the past, but what he fails to recognize is that no matter which bad contracts you want to cite that the Yankees have signed, at the time of contract formation, they had a reasonable belief that the contract made economic sense. That’s not the case with Jeter after a certain point.

  47. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    Good point Blake.

  48. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Can’t blame Tulowitzki for wanting to re-sign. Denver is a great city and Colorado is a spectacular state. Plus, it doesn’t hurt that Coors Field is a great park for hitting.

  49. Mike Ri November 30th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    Thanks Rich ! good post

    Francessa is way off

  50. Shame Spencer November 30th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    “..at the time of contract formation, they had a reasonable belief that the contract made economic sense.”

    Can’t say I wholeheartedly agree with that last part.

  51. blake November 30th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    I think if Lee stays in Texas then it would just all depend on what the trade market held. If they could pry away a Chris Carpenter or someone like that ( just speculating) and sign Crawford then they obviously would be fine. Not getting Lee just makes things more complicated and uncertain.

  52. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    Wave, I dislike that rotation. I trust CC and I would trust Andy as long as he’s on the mound. IMO, everyone else has question marks hanging over their heads, to different degrees of course

  53. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    The, “They have done bad deals before, why not do it again” argument is, by far, the dumbest argument anybody can make re: the Jeter contract.

    Anybody who makes it clears shows two things:

    1. They have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

    2. They have never had a recent conversation with either Hal, Cash, Lonn Trost, Randy Levine, or Jean Afterman and comprehend what the Yankees long and short term goals on re: payroll.

  54. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    I don’t want Lee if he’s going to have to be bribed to come here (in other words, if all things are equal, he’d rather stay in TX – then let him stay there). I don’t buy the “oh, he was so upset not to be coming to the Yankees in August” theory – he was likely upset because he didn’t think he was getting out of Seattle.

  55. blake November 30th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    Betsy,

    If someone was.going to lay me 160 million bucks to hit in Coors Field and live in Denver during the summer.then I probably could be convinced to stay also. :)

  56. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    Blake, as good as Carpenter is (why would the Cards trade him), how old is he? 35? 36? Lee is 32- I’m not thrilled that we’d have to give him a huge contract, but he hasn’t had the arm issues that Carpenter has had in the past at least.

  57. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Blake, absolutely. He was probably very happy there, so really – why should he leave? The Yankees don’t need a Tulowitzki to replace Jeter (it would be great, but it’s not necessary), but they can’t have a Nunez or Pena type either.

  58. disco stu November 30th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Francesa is also off by continuing to refer to Derek Jeter’s value to the Yankee franchise, but failing to acknowledge the Yankees value Derek Jeter and his branding of himself over the last 15 years.

    Jeter has made a fortune in endorsements by not only using his name, but in conjuction as “Derek Jeter Star Shortstop for the New York Yankees”.

    Isnt it a two-way street? If not, then I think there is a huge double standard that exists.

  59. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Francesa said, “it’s hard to say what Jeter’s value would be”.

  60. blake November 30th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    Betsy,

    I just threw that name out there….I have no idea if they would, but he is nearing the end of his deal and they may need to clear money for Pujols depending on what his demands are.

  61. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 1:58 pm

    It’s free agency. Guys aren’t “bribed”.

    They look to make the best deal they can make for themselves. That’s how it goes.

    Lee will sign a big deal and it’s looking more and more that it’s going to be with the Yankees.

    The bottom line is getting your #1 target. How you do it is irrelevant.

  62. Jerkface November 30th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    I don’t buy the “oh, he was so upset not to be coming to the Yankees in August” theory

    I don’t buy the ‘Cliff Lee is happy in Texas’ theory

  63. SoS November 30th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    What is up mi amigos!!

    Question??

    Would the Yankees be a better team using the Jeter money to get Crawford? Assuming Jeter still wants to be the highest paid 2 bucks and 70 cent hitter ever? Still have the quan to get Lee or use Gardner as a trading chip if that falls through? Can management be thinking that as a plan b already?

  64. Bret The Hitman November 30th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    I hope Matt Cain reaches free agency. He signed through 2012…so 2 more years. He’s a model of consistency. That’s a guy you pay big money to sign. He’s still only 26 and will be the same age CC was when Sabathia first reached free agency.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=6202

  65. Shame Spencer November 30th, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Sj – I understand your point completely. And agree with it. But the problem with it is that it sorta ignores the fact that we’re talking about the Yankees.

    Maybe its just because I honestly believe the Yankees can afford to spend $20 million dollars on nothing for the next ten years and still be competitive whereas everyone else on this blog seems to think we’re bordering on bankruptcy… I really think Jeter understand the fiscal situation of the Yankees much better than we do and is probably asking for what he thinks is merely a drop in the bucket. Not even saying he’s deserving or right to do so, but again, I think he could make a pretty good point. Not a good ‘real world’ point, but in baseball/sports, money can’t be discussed as it can be for the Joe Sixpacks of the world, right?

    I’m not defending either side exclusively. I think a deal will get done and will seem fair to both sides. But I just can’t get over the fact that the Yankees have painted ANYONE else as greedy and the fans sorta fall for it. The Yankees could pay $20 million for every player on our team for the next 50 years and still make money. They’re the Yankees!

  66. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    Troy Tulowitzki’s road OPS last season was higher than any other SS total OPS in baseball last season.

    His road OPS was 9 points higher than the next highest total OPS from a SS. It was 52 points higher than the SS after that. And a whopping 107 points higher than the SS after that.

    Calling Tulo pretty good is like saying 98% of baseball is worse than pretty good. Cano would be the only pretty good player on the Yankees.

  67. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Rule of thumb in contract talks……

    If you can’t quantify “value”, then it has no tangible value.

    What fans, and Mike Francesa, don’t realize about contract talks are that’s its very clinical.

    It’s more numbers crunching and comps than emotion.

    Ultimately, deals get done when both sides crunch numbers. When that happens, emotion goes NY the wayside and deals get done.

  68. Bret The Hitman November 30th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    SoS November 30th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
    What is up mi amigos!!

    Question??

    Would the Yankees be a better team using the Jeter money to get Crawford? Assuming Jeter still wants to be the highest paid 2 bucks and 70 cent hitter ever? Still have the quan to get Lee or use Gardner as a trading chip if that falls through? Can management be thinking that as a plan b already?
    **************

    It’s a valid question but how about putting it this way…

    Would you rather have Crawford + Nunez + a trade return on Gardner

    OR

    Jeter + Gardner + a trade return on Nunez

  69. Jerkface November 30th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    Maybe its just because I honestly believe the Yankees can afford to spend $20 million dollars on nothing for the next ten years and still be competitive whereas everyone else on this blog seems to think we’re bordering on bankruptcy

    They could probably do that, but wouldn’t and shouldn’t. Just because you can do something doesn’t make it the right thing to do. The yankees are trying to make money and win baseball games. The key is to win as many games as possible with the least amount of money spent to maximize the profits.

    We’re lucky to follow a team that will use its considerable bulk to field a great team, but they still pay a similar percentage as other baseball teams do of their total revenue.

  70. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    well Jerkface, that’s it, isn’t it? None of us knows how Lee feels, so it’s just speculation……

    SJ, yes I know that the bottom line is getting your target, but I’m rather tired of players just coming here because they know the Yankees will pay through the nose. It’s never because they look forward to the challenge of playing in NY or because it’s a great city or because the Yankees are a solid organization(nevermind being THE franchise in baseball) – it’s always, always about the $$.

  71. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    It’s has nothing to do with believing another 20 million dollars is a “drop in the bucket” to the Yankees.

    It has to do with the Yankees no longer being willing to fund their competitors with excessive luxury tax payments.

    40% hits for every dollar over the tax threshold is something the Yankees are sick of these days.

    That plays into all of these talks.

    When you (the Yankees) have already made the highest offer in the marketplace for a player, it’s pretty tough to sell that you “embarrassed” the player.

  72. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Blake, got it!

  73. upstate kate November 30th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    Hi SoS!!

    LGY
    is talking about the value of Tulo a sneaky way to not talk about “you know who” as you promised?

  74. DaSaint007 November 30th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    The Yankees could pay $20 million for every player on our team for the next 50 years and still make money. They’re the Yankees!
    ————————-
    Lack of understanding about business there buddy.
    Every business isn’t profitable.
    There is a difference between revenue and profit.
    Companies that have tremendous revenues sometimes go out of business – because of lack of profit. THink Airlines: Pan Am, Eastern, Air Tran, etc, etc, etc.

    You can’t just say that the Yankees can spend ANY amount, and still be profitable. That’s not correct.

  75. Jerkface November 30th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    It’s never because they look forward to the challenge of playing in NY or because it’s a great city or because the Yankees are a solid organization(nevermind being THE franchise in baseball) – it’s always, always about the $$.

    When has any other player in baseball gone somewhere for the sheer challenge or love of it? Its always about the money. There are probably a handful out of 100s of Free Agents in the past 20 years that have signed for less for a team because they enjoyed it.

  76. AldotheApache November 30th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    It’s not hard to say what Jeter’s value is. What IS hard is to go out on a limb, knowing that a likely result will be that all his previous points no longer hold water, nothing new for Francesa.

    For a team like the Giants, coming off a title run, Jeter would be reasonably worth 2/20 or 2/25. He’d be worth it to them. Steady SS play, leadership skills, smart player, reasonable expectation of being able to produce for 2 more years.

    That wasn’t very hard, was it?

    Oh, and PS … Yankees are offering about DOUBLE that over the life of the contract.

    I’m sticking to my original Jeter prediction – 3/52.5 (17.5 per)

  77. Jerkface November 30th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    is talking about the value of Tulo a sneaky way to not talk about “you know who” as you promised?

    I think he is just snapping GB7′s silly point about Tulo’s away numbers.

  78. SoS November 30th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Dammit bribe Lee if need be.

    List of bribes.

    1. Lee to throw out every first pitch in all home games.
    2. A Lee monument under the Oneil banner.
    3. Wife sings at the 7th inning stretch. Option-Cotton Eye Joe.
    4. Wife also reserves all the surrounding seats and sound proof ear plugs to help with the game vulgarity.
    5. Lee in Gillette comercials, with wifey petting his face after using the great product.
    6. Lee gets to wear #21. Yea I said it!
    7. Lee is a bullpen coach when not piching.
    8. Wifey a bench coach when hubbies not on the mound.
    9. A Lee patch on the jerseys.
    10. A lifetime supply of golden thongs and Matsui’s video collection that was confiscated by Yankee employees.

  79. Bronx Jeers November 30th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    If you can’t quantify “value”, then it has no tangible value.

    ———————————————————————————-

    I always knew that “intangibles” tag would come around to hurt him. :wink:

    Isn’t that what they call him in Boston? Captain Intangibles?

  80. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    upstate kate,

    :lol:

    No!

    Because then I would have said Tulo’s road OPS was X points higher than He Who Shall Not Be Named Total OPS.

    But I refrained from doing so! :D

  81. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Betsy,

    It’s always about the money EVERYWHERE.

    This is not their hobby…..it’s their job.

    The Yankees have led with their wallets ever since George bought the team.

    When you lead with your wallet, and are proud to do so (which they should be), you can’t complain about players looking to get the best deals they can for themselves.

    That’s the way it goes in the big city.

  82. Jerkface November 30th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    4. Wife also reserves all the surrounding seats

    She’s not THAT fat, come on. Don’t get catty.

    “8. Wifey a bench coach when hubbies not on the mound.”

    Oh now she needs an entire bench!?

  83. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    Jerkface and SJ, I understand. I’m a players fan, not an owners, so I am all for them being able to get as much as they can on the open market. I just don’t want the Yankees being used ……….

  84. Yankee Trader November 30th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    I’m not in favor of Pedro Feliciano, who appeared in 92 games last year [who knows how many other games he warmed up with no appearance, can’t get righties out. Pure waste to get a lefty only specialist.

    The marlins supposedly had only 3M to spend, signed vazquez for 7M. They might very well want to trade righty Leo Nunez, who slumped a bit at the end of the season, but is very tough on lefties and I believe is due arbitration, with last years salary around 4M.

    Possible signing that might help could be Chris Young frrom the Padres, who came back from shoulder injury to pitch very well in September and might be a good addition to the pen. However he’s being hotly pursued by the mets.

  85. Jerkface November 30th, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    I just don’t want the Yankees being used ……….

    They’re used as much as any team is used. The Dodgers rode Huff’s pricetag up for the Giants, and then swiped Uribe out from under them.

  86. upstate kate November 30th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    LGY
    ok, just trying to keep you honest :)

  87. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Not a great plan B…
    http://riveraveblues.com/2010/.....nez-39218/

  88. SoS November 30th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Hello kate!! Hope you had a nice holliday.

    Brett,
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    Rule of thumb in contract talks……If you can’t quantify “value”, then it has no tangible value.
    What fans, and Mike Francesa, don’t realize about contract talks are that’s its very clinical. It’s more numbers crunching and comps than emotion. Ultimately, deals get done when both sides crunch numbers. When that happens, emotion goes NY the wayside and deals get done.

    *************

    Yes, quantifying value plays an important part in a contract negotiation. So do the intangibles, the 3,000 hits, the intrinsic stuff, the players image, selling the history, how the parties feel about each other, who else the club has to replace him, what the player means to the institutional marketing of the franchise. It’s lots more than just on-the-field value. Not to mention, there have been no offers for Jeter because the other clubs believe he will be returning to the Yankees. So any quantifying of his value as a player is total speculation.

  90. Mell November 30th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

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    Jeter’s money and what else? Crawford will get more than $15M and way more than 3 years. Yankees are loaded financially, but you have to be careful about the number of long term, big money contracts you lock yourself into. 7 more years of Rodriguez, 6 of Teixiera, presumedly 6 of Lee, and likely 5 more of Sabathia. Right there is $100M committed to four players for the next 5 years. Add in a similar contract for Crawford and note that Cano is a $15M player for 2012 and 2013 before being a free agent at 31. Doesn’t leave a great deal of flexibility. Some of that is mitigated by the fruits of the farm, but at the same time you want to be careful not to have a bunch of 30 somethings growing old together at $20+M per season.

    Other thought is that we don’t know for sure the Nunez is ready for the vigors of being an everyday MLB SS while we know Gardner is in the outfield.

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  93. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    No it’s not. It has very little to do with it.

    Having done over 30 arbitration cases in my career, as well as having seen my share of FA contracts, “intrinsic” stuff has little or no value in these talks.

    As I said, it’s very clinical.

    The emotion stuff gets a lot of play in the media and fans grab onto that.

    However, behind closed doors in negotiations, external stuff has very little play in negotiations.

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