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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Jeter and Close prepare for next step

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Nov 30, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ALCS Yankees Ready BaseballThe Winter Meetings are less than a week away and Derek Jeter still hasn’t re-signed with the Yankees. Hard to be too surprised at the fact he and Casey Close have some things to talk about. Here’s the Associated Press:

NEW YORK (AP) — A baseball official says Derek Jeter and his agent, Casey Close, have met Tuesday as the New York Yankees await a counteroffer from their captain. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the team didn’t make any announcements. The meeting was first reported by Newsday.

New York has offered Jeter a $45 million, three-year contract, and the All-Star shortstop has not made a formal proposal. Close has suggested a contract averaging about $23 million for four or five seasons, the baseball official said, but the numbers were suggested loosely by Close and should not be interpreted as a precise request.

So Jeter and Close are preparing for their next step. That’s seems to be a positive from the Jeter camp. At least there’s some sort of movement.

A few other notes:

The Giants have reportedly signed Miguel Tejada. I’m not in a position to say whether they want him to play third base or shortstop, but the Giants certainly seem to be most heavily looking for a shortstop.

• As expected, Scott Downs will decline arbitration and hit the free agent market. That’s a big-ticket left-handed reliever if the Yankees are interested.

• Given the free agent market and trade possibilities, Eduardo Nunez seems as good a Plan B as any at shortstop, and Buster Olney says the Yankees have in fact settled on Nunez as their fallback if Jeter doesn’t re-sign.

• The Rays are going to be swimming in draft picks after a boatload of players turned down arbitration offers.

• One fairly cheap lefty came off the market today. Brian Tallet signed with St. Louis.

Associated Press photo

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414 Responses to “Jeter and Close prepare for next step”

  1. blake November 30th, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    Good sign…..I think

  2. BJK November 30th, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Jeter will sign for $17-$18 million per year. After the Tulo extension, that will allow him to remain the highest paid SS in baseball and also keep him higher annually than another troubled Yankee on the team. (Not to mention any names *coughajcough*).

  3. Carl November 30th, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    For every 10,000 followers up to 100,000, I’ll randomly pick a follower & send a signed item or my tix to a Yankees game (home or road)

    Curtis Granderson is the man

  4. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    From the other thread….

    Why does Derek Jeter need some kind of “gold watch” payment from the Yankees?

    Sorry but, that’s just flat out dumb.

    The Yankees have paid Derek Jeter over 200 million dollars in his career. They don’t owe him a “gold watch” payment.

    It’s a baseball negotiation and in the end, a baseball contract will be negotiated.

    He will sign a new deal and will be expected to perform up to the standards of the contract.

    They aren’t giving him money to go on a retirement tour.

    The rest of the rhetoric is just noise.

  5. Patrick November 30th, 2010 at 8:46 pm

    I have no problem with Jeter asking for a lot of money, I just don’t think he’s worth what he’s asking and I don’t think the Yankees will sign him to that amount. By all means though, ask for whatever. It’s just business. Both sides will agree to a number they are all satisfied with.

  6. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    “Both sides will agree to a number they are all satisfied with.”

    That leaves a lot of room for mistakes. A mistake by Jeter is one thing, but a mistake by the Yanks affects me every day.

  7. SAS November 30th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    SJ,

    If all Jeter wants is a gold watch, even an expensive one….that’s doable.

  8. Tom in N.J. November 30th, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Jeter’s next contract will say “Baseball Player” not ICON.

  9. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    Great stuff on Prime 9. Best sliders

    9. Jim Bunning
    8. Francisco Rodriguez
    7. Bob Lemon
    6. Dave Stieb
    5. Bob Gibson
    4. Sparky Lyle
    3. Steve Carlton
    2. Randy Johnson
    1. Ron Guidry

  10. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 8:57 pm

    So a come to Jesus moment is coming?

  11. blake November 30th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    GB,

    That’s a pretty good list…..don’t know about K Rod being on there but eh…..

  12. BJK November 30th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
    Great stuff on Prime 9. Best sliders

    9. Jim Bunning
    8. Francisco Rodriguez
    7. Bob Lemon
    6. Dave Stieb
    5. Bob Gibson
    4. Sparky Lyle
    3. Steve Carlton
    2. Randy Johnson
    1. Ron Guidry

    ——————————————————-

    One can only assume Joba was #10.

  13. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Really thought Carlton’s slider would be ranked #1.

    Perhaps if you go top right handed sliders, Jeff Nelson is on the list.

    The show to see is best curve balls.

  14. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 9:03 pm

    BTW, for those who care, the University of Miami is thisclose to getting Jon Gruden as their new coach.

  15. blake November 30th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    “BTW, for those who care, the University of Miami is thisclose to getting Jon Gruden as their new coach.”

    good news for Miami, bad news for the ACC and Urban Meyer……I’m thinking Gruden will be able to recruit like crazy after being on TV so much the past couple years.

  16. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

    SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    From the other thread….Why does Derek Jeter need some kind of “gold watch” payment from the Yankees? Sorry but, that’s just flat out dumb.

    The Yankees have paid Derek Jeter over 200 million dollars in his career. They don’t owe him a “gold watch” payment. It’s a baseball negotiation and in the end, a baseball contract will be negotiated. He will sign a new deal and will be expected to perform up to the standards of the contract. They aren’t giving him money to go on a retirement tour. The rest of the rhetoric is just noise.

    ****************

    No, actually the gold watch/severeance payment idea is a very creative and good idea in my opinion. It’s not dumb at all. It’s a compromise that allows the Yankees to stick to their 3-$45 and also also acknowledges Jeter’s unique place in Yankee history, and, allows Jeter to come away from the negotiations with his pride and ego intact.

    The Yankees are insisting that this be consummated as a baseball only contract. That does not make them right.

    I am in no way saying that the Yankees will do this, I am sure they won’t.

  17. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    The Cowboys should hire Gruden.

  18. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Gruden’s not half the shortstop that Jeter is, though.

    Sorry, just couldn’t let that one go, SJ.

    I’ll say it again. I’m not saying that Jeter deserves a raise or a cut, It makes no difference to me. I just put that link up there because I thought it was interesting.

  19. blake November 30th, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    I don’t know if Jerry and Gruden would get along so well….maybe I’m wrong on that one.

  20. MDD2 November 30th, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    SJ44 -

    I’m pretty sure Jeter is one of your favorite players, if your prior posts still hold true… the rhetoric you call noise seems to be more than that. I have no doubt he will sign — maybe in the next 48 hours — but you don’t find it a little disturbing that because of the noise and incessant leaking, there’s a Starbucks drink called Reality Potion?

    I value your opinion, but I don’t think that Close was truly ‘baffled’ by the offers. He was baffled by the tone and tenor coming from a hypersensitive Cashman, an insensitive Levine, a young Steinbrenner and tactless anonymous sources in on the negotiations.

    I’m not supposed to care about the process, but I do. It seems like more than noise. What could be wrong with allowing a player to maintain his reputation throughout the talks? I feel the Yankees have taken that away from him.

    A couple of 3 for 4′s in early April will shut everyone up, but by dismissing the hard edges surrounding the process, you and others have given cover to those who think he’s just another player who fails the sabermetric test. There is something to Derek Jeter and he deserved a more dignified approach.

    And now back to lurking.

  21. JEKIKASO November 30th, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    repost from earlieJEKIKASO November 30th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
    Derek Jeter and his agent, Casey Close, met with Yankees executives in Tampa on Tuesday.

    As of 7:45 p.m. ET, it is not known whether the sides were still meeting or which Yankees officials were in attendance. But any sitdown with Jeter figured to include owner Hal Steinbrenner and general manager Brian Cashman.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s…..ida-113010
    ******************************************

    Kind of strange first reporter states both sides met…. Then says it is not known whether Yankee officials were in attendance. Any one else see a problem with thisr

  22. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    I’m amused by people who deign to post here just to lecture others.

  23. Yank1 November 30th, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    “The Cowboys should hire Gruden.”

    We don’t want them to get better

    Let them re-hire Wade

  24. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    No issues. It said that they DIDN’T KNOW WHICH Yankee Officials were there. Not that there were none.

  25. Patrick November 30th, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    That’s too bad that Gruden is going to the U but I guess the setting fits him. I actually really liked him as a broadcaster

  26. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    I’m amused by people who deign to deign.

  27. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Amusement is good.

  28. blake November 30th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    In the interview Tulo gave on MLB network he said he visited with John Wooden before he passed away and he told him how much he liked Derek Jeter and that he thought he should go to the Yankees and carry on after him….

  29. SAS November 30th, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    SJ.

    I was joking about the gold watch. I thought that was so obvious I didn’t even note it.

  30. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    baseball is a competition of baseball players.

    it is not a competition of managements.

    when management or fans of management forget this they forget what the game is about.

  31. AldotheApache November 30th, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    Jon Gruden can handle working for JJones … after being under Al Davis’ thumb, Jones would be a cakewalk.

    No, his worst enemy would be the Cowboys’ GM, who is also Jerry’s worst enemy.

  32. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Randy,

    Baseball is a 9 billion dollar industry. It’s big business and every contract negotiation is business.

    In some cases, BIG business.

    Its big boys, wearing big boys pants, trying to do deals. That’s just the way it is.

    When the deal is done, it becomes a game again.

    The business side of it is what it is.

  33. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    “baseball is a competition of baseball players.”

    Actually, while baseball is a competition of baseball players, Major League Baseball is a business enterprise a product of which is a structured competition of baseball players.

    Two very different things.

  34. Patrick November 30th, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    That leaves a lot of room for mistakes. A mistake by Jeter is one thing, but a mistake by the Yanks affects me every day.

    —–

    Yes true but I think Cashman is smart enough to avoid that. Also if we look at it from a pure baseball standpoint, in my eyes, Jeter is a massive upgrade over Pena or Nunez. Also, there aren’t really any good alternatives on the horizon, name one star SS that will be on the market in the next few years.

  35. G. Love November 30th, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    At this point to save face the Yankees are going to have to up the offer past 45 million. I hate it, but it will happen.

    I hope and pray they don’t add another year. They’ll most likely give him more money and that should look like Jeter fought hard in the negotiation and won something.

    That said, Hal and Cash better not claim they have no money in the budget for something they need. If they take that stance, the first person the fans will turn on if he struggles is Jeter.

    Everyone knows he’s getting overpaid royally on this deal. He better hope he finds .300 again and stops banging into outs on the ground that don’t clear the infield.

    You want to be top dog and get paid like it, a weak .270 is not going to cut it.

    Over 15 million a year (and it will be over 15 million per year) for a SS who hits singles without any kind of power is a waste of money.

    He has to play better next season. Another year like this and the sentiment after he hits 3000 will wane quick.

    On another note, if I were the Yankees I would sign Downs only if I sign Lee. If you’re going to lose your 1st round pick no matter what, you might as well sign both.

    If you miss out on Lee though you cannot give up your 1st round pick for a LH reliever.

  36. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    “it is not a competition of managements”

    Like the old story about the blind men looking at the elephant, that is only one way to view professional baseball. There are other reasonable ways to view it.

  37. Bronx Jeers November 30th, 2010 at 9:27 pm

    Fans of management?

    Personally I can barely buy a hot dog from the Yanks without wanting to put somebody’s head through a wall but if anybody has any extra rookie Hank Steinbrenner cards they want to trade, I’m in need. :wink:

  38. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    If you’re not a fan of smart management, you probably aren’t going to have many good players to root for.

  39. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    “No, actually the gold watch/severeance payment idea is a very creative and good idea in my opinion. It’s not dumb at all.”

    ————————–

    It is strange how much you are sticking to this idea based on your position in these negotiations.

  40. BJK November 30th, 2010 at 9:31 pm

    Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
    I’m amused by people who deign to post here just to lecture others.

    ————————————————————————————

    I’m enjoying the back and forth between SJ and WCYF. They seem to represent how each side comes at a negotiation.

    It makes sense that WCYF is an agent… he thinks like a talent agent who reps… say Robert DeNiro.

    Meanwhile, SJ thinks like business affairs at a movie studio.

  41. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 9:33 pm

    Patrick-

    I haven’t gotten too involved in the interminable Jeter discussions because I’m OK with the Yank offer.

    I’m also OK in the very unlikely event Jeter goes somewhere else so long as the Yanks invest what they would have paid Jeter in on-the-field improvement, because I have accepted the fact that someday in the not too distant future the Yanks will have to play without him anyway.

    Maybe it’s because while I respect Jeter as a player I’ve never been a Jeter fan particularly. When the Yanks offered Pettitte what I considered a lowball offer I was outraged.

  42. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    It makes sense that WCYF is an agent… he thinks like a talent agent who reps

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    he’s the agent for Baretta’s unemployed bird.

  43. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    BJK

    I was referring to MDD2 who, if I recall correctly, recently compared the treatment of Jeter by the Yankees to that of Vazquez. Some people are just really out there.

    (I think it was them. My apologies if I’m mistaken.)

  44. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    “Like the old story about the blind men looking at the elephant, that is only one way to view professional baseball. There are other reasonable ways to view it.”

    i would pay money to watch that elephant sit his ass right on top of your management loving head.

    then you’d have your reasonable view.

  45. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    “i would pay money to watch that elephant sit his ass right on top of your management loving head.”

    I would think that by now you can tell from reading my posts that I have a very hard freakin’ head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  46. GreenBeret7 November 30th, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    LMAO. Classic Paul O’Neill explosions. The kick save in Philadelpia especially.

  47. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    LGY. I looked at the Jeter negotiations as being at an impasse. In that scenario, in my opinion, it’s often a good idea to seek non-traditional and creative ways to approach the negotiation, with a eye towards creating a win-win for both parties. To my way of thinking, both sides should be willing given the circumstances to compromise to some extent.

    Maybe there is no impasse. Maybe Jeter will accept a three year – $57 million dollar deal and smile.

  48. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    That was nice GB7. Appreciate it.

  49. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    sj44-

    why is there no management in pro golf?

    why doesn’t the top player have a gm?

    until you get 4 golfers going against four other golfers you don’t need someone to “manage”.

    all management does in team sports is help the guys on a team get together and make decisions.

    they are paid accordingly. gms are paid like utility infielders. that’s their market place value. that’s their big boy value.

    this market value shows there are lots of people who could do the same thing.

    really good baseball players are what championships are made of. really good players are the rarity that is hard to find. they are the ones who are paid 20 million.

    if cashman things he’s the one who’s the most important guy in the baseball scheme of things, advise him to hold out for twenty million.

    there is no gm alive who is worth what a great player is worth.

    baseball is a competition of players.

  50. Patrick November 30th, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    randy you rule dude :)

  51. Tom in N.J. November 30th, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Randy has been rather quixotic recently.

    Keep tilting, sir, keep tilting…

  52. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    “why is there no management in pro golf? ”

    Because there are no teams?

    Because all golfers can play on the same course?

    Because a golf course requires a relatively small capital outlay and can generate lots of revenue when the pros aren’t there, while a baseball stadium requires a huge capital outlay and doesn’t generate much revenue when the team isn’t in it?

    Of course, if we go back to the 1875 Cincinnati Reds we can find something close to Randy’s model. But, for some reason, the Reds were willing to give it all up when joining/forming the National League in 1876.

  53. Patrick November 30th, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    there is no gm alive who is worth what a great player is worth.

    True but that’s because there are many people in the world capable of running a team well. There aren’t many people capable of hitting .300 in the big leagues or mashing 40 HR.

    That doesn’t mean that a GM is more or less important to a team.

  54. clownthrowindown November 30th, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    Baseball when you are a kid in the street is a competition of players. MLB is a competition of teams assembled by GMs who play the game with varying degrees of motivation for varying reasons. I would bet that a higher percentage of GMs care about winning than players…they have alot more riding on it

    Players say they care about winning but in reality approach it as a job. Their goal is to put up numbers in order to earn more money next contract. Winning isn’t the priority. Yeh, its competition between batter and pitcher, but not necessarily competition to win a game. Essentailly they are all just hired guns who entertain crowds for the highest bidder. A GM however gets evaluated by how his team does.

    Of course not all players are like that (for example, Jeter cares), but lots of guys are way more concerned about “the back of their baseball card”.

  55. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Randy,

    There isn’t a single team in baseball offering Derek Jeter 20 million dollars per year.

    He doesn’t even have offers approaching the Yankees offer. What does that tell you?

    You are too blinded in your hatred of Cashman to see the reality that Derek Jeter is no longer a 20 million dollar a year player.

    If he was, he would have offers on that level.

    Baseball is a league consisting of teams. Pro golf is an individual sport. The two aren’t comparable in the slightest.

  56. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    A GM doesn’t have to be worth what a player is, but with few exceptions, I would rather have a great GM than a great player because the great player alone will yield less wins over time than a great GM.

  57. coney1 November 30th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    Wow Randy, your hatred of Cashman knows no bounds.

  58. ericns1 November 30th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    Re Buster Olney and Nunwz – he may be the shortstop of the future but not now – Buster is also the guy who said Wilson Betemit, remember him, would take over for A-Rod if he had left the Yanks

  59. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 10:19 pm

    “The biggest earthquake in 18 years hit the New York area at 10:46 AM Tuesday morning. The US Geological Survey says the epicenter of the 3.8 quake was in the Atlantic Ocean off the shore of New Jersey and New York, far away from anything else to do serious damage”.

    Anyone?

  60. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    “Buster is also the guy who said Wilson Betemit, remember him, would take over for A-Rod if he had left the Yanks”

    I just can’t resist pointing out that on an OPS/OPS+ basis, Wilson Betemit had a better year than ARod…

  61. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    “Of course, if we go back to the 1875 Cincinnati Reds we can find something close to Randy’s model. But, for some reason, the Reds were willing to give it all up when joining/forming the National League in 1876.”

    actually, the 2075 cincinnati reds will be a more appropriate model when talented people have management clones who do all the boring bean counter stuff for them which leaves them free to do their thing.

  62. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    “actually, the 2075 cincinnati reds will be a more appropriate model when talented people have management clones who do all the boring bean counter stuff for them which leaves them free to do their thing.”

    LOL, Randy, I disagree with you but I do have a lot of sympathy with your fundamental viewpoint.

  63. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    “baseball is a competition of baseball players.
    it is not a competition of managements”

    The whole tone and tenor of this debate has become (in many ways) a labor vs management argument.

    I am a pro union, blue collar, guy. I feel Derek Jeter has done everything right and has made his company a ton of money.

    Management wants to keep the discussion strictly on the field (stats). They want no part of talking about Jeter’s brand or his real worth, because frankly it’s not in their best interest. Why would they open that can of worms if they don’t have to.

    Derek Jeter’s brand has real value. It has helped make the Yankee organization what it is today. To say otherwise is really just “toeing the company line”.

    For some I understand the management perspective, and it makes perfect sense to me.

    But for some of you other blue collar fans, I really don’t get the attraction to management’s point of view. Do you really think that signing Jeter for 15, 20 or even 25 mil is going to stop them from going after someone they want? How much did they write off on Igawa and Pavano alone? Did that even so much as faze the Yankee juggernaut? I think not.

    Anyway I promised myself that I wasn’t going to get dragged into this again. Thanks a lot Randy :mad: j/k

    BTW Randy you have been awesome.

  64. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    “You are too blinded in your hatred of Cashman to see the reality that Derek Jeter is no longer a 20 million dollar a year player.”

    sj44-

    cut the cashman hatred crap.

    i could as easily call you a cashman lover.

    what good does that do?

    the reality is no one in the baseball business thinks a gm is worth even an average player.

    when management starts acting like they are that important they are forgetting their place.

    the game belongs to the jeters of the world and not the cashmans.

    it’s as simple as that.

    selig didn’t get far when he tries to tell molitor what he was worth.

    cashman and yankee ownership is going to back down from their position and jeter is going to make make much more than 15 million a year and 45 million total.

    that’s the big boy world.

  65. mick November 30th, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    Its big boys, wearing big boys pants,
    =======================
    i would pay money to watch that elephant sit his ass right on top of your management loving head.
    =================================

    and these guys are golfing buddies, lol.

  66. mick November 30th, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    the gm/owner vs the player, classic…

  67. pat November 30th, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    jeter is going to make make much more than 15 million a year and 45 million total.

    Define “much more”? $18M per? $20M? $25M? ?

  68. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    “Do you really think that signing Jeter for 15, 20 or even 25 mil is going to stop them from going after someone they want?”

    Yes. If they had an extra $17m lying around, they would have signed Holliday last year.

    The inflated view that some have of Jeter’s worth is stunning to me, but whatever, that’s your right.

  69. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    by the way sj44, i have great respect for you as an extremely knowledgeable baseball person, but i think you are just seeing it too much from one side.

  70. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Derek Jeter’s brand has real value. It has helped make the Yankee organization what it is today. To say otherwise is really just “toeing the company line”

    *****

    The funny part about this theory is that absent any facts or figures I could easily posits that Jeter has made more money from the Yankee brand than for it and there is no telling who is right.

    Wouldn’t that really throw a wrench in this line of thinking?

  71. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Blue collar my #ss. Jeter has more money than God.

  72. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    That’s all the Rays need, more great young talent

  73. blake November 30th, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    “The funny part about this theory is that absent any facts or figures I could easily posits that Jeter has made more money from the Yankee brand than for it and there is no telling who is right. ”

    I believe this is a Derek Jeter post.

  74. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    “Yes. If they had an extra $17m lying around, they would have signed Holliday last year.”

    Well actually they did. But I guess they thought Tex was worth more to the team than Holliday.

  75. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    “I would rather have a great GM than a great player because the great player alone will yield less wins over time than a great GM.”

    what cashman’s WAR?

  76. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    by the way, Baretta’s bird was named Fred.

  77. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    Blake

    :lol:

    Umm..err..I meant only one post during the daytime. Now its nighttime. Yeah that’s it :oops:

  78. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    I can see the Yankees budging SLIGHTLY in dollars, but not years……..and even if they do move their offer slightly, Jeter is going to have to come down a hell of a lot more. They need to be willing to let Jeter walk on his own or to walk away from him.

  79. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Randy,

    Do you think Derek Jeter is still a 20 million dollar a year player?

    In the history of the sport, no 37 year old SS has ever been offered a 3 year contract. Let alone one averaging 15 million dollars a year.

    That being the case, how are the Yankees mistreating him? They have offered in a historic deal for a player of his age and position.

    This, after coming off his worst season as a pro.

    It’s a fair offer and a fair deal.

    He’s a free agent. Of he can get an equal or better deal, he’s free to pursue it.

    In the end, he will re-sign with the Yankees because they made the best offer.

    That’s how the system works. He’s not being mistreated in the slightest.

  80. blake November 30th, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    “Umm..err..I meant only one post during the daytime. Now its nighttime. Yeah that’s it :oops:”

    just couldn’t resist huh… ;)

  81. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    “Blue collar my #ss. Jeter has more money than God.”

    think what google geniuses make- the people that work there and not just the owners.

    its a new world out there.

    talented people don’t work for bosses the way they used to.

  82. Bronx Jeers November 30th, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    I think a Jeter-contract pool is in order here.

  83. Melkmanisinhotlanta November 30th, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Karl Marx would have loved the MLB player’s union.

  84. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    Blake

    I’m hooked! :(

    They say the first step is admitting you have a problem. :???:

  85. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    “think what google geniuses make- the people that work there and not just the owners.

    its a new world out there.

    talented people don’t work for bosses the way they used to.”

    Well Derek should declare himself independent then. Maybe start a new league…

  86. mick November 30th, 2010 at 10:45 pm

    Those who view Jeter as a 20m player are looking at him as more than a player, possibly an ambassador. They view his intangibles as equal to his abilities. It’s not realistic to believe mgmnt could ever think this way, as a fan would.

  87. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    “what cashman’s WAR?

    Which WAR are you talking about Baseball Refrence or FanGraphs. They are not the same WAR.

    Something I learned here last night. Thanks again Rich

  88. mick November 30th, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    It’s not realistic to believe mgmnt could ever think this way, as a fan would.
    ————————————————-
    or a former player.

  89. blake November 30th, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    LGY,

    This is true….I see healing in your future, and I see this saga ending soon.

  90. SAS November 30th, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    The kind of dollars is funny money to most of us anyway. There, of course, has never been a 37 yr. SS who has made this kind of money. GB and I were talking about when Mantle earned $100K and what a big deal it was.

    You can’t compare Jeter to an other SS in the past money-wise. I hope this silly conversation can come to the end one way or the other soon.

  91. West Coast Yankee Fan November 30th, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Tar – Excellent post, articulate and well reasoned. I’m in that camp as well. Over the years I would be hard pressed to remember more than a handful of instances where a corporation was not trying to take advantage of an employee by minimizing their worth.

    Of course the Yankees want to keep it to baseball statistics and comparative analysis. You bet they do. Anything else is a losing proposition for them.

  92. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    “Well actually they did. But I guess they thought Tex was worth more to the team than Holliday.”

    That’s false.

    They were on the market in different seasons, and they could have used both…but they didn’t have the funds that they were willing to spend.

  93. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    Betsy and SJ44 — do you really want to go through this again after 3 seasons? Imo, if the Yankees are smart, they figure out a way to offer Jeter a couple more years. It seems almost sure that he wants to play at least 5 more. If he averages just 150 hits (the only season he has fewer than 179 hits was an injury-shortened season in which he hit .322) for 5 more years he will pass Stan Musial and move into 4th place on the all-time list, becoming just the 6th player in MLB history to surpass 3,500 hits. Yes, Jeter is coming off his worst season, his one “bad” season in his career (the only one in which he has hit below .290, and just the fourth time he’s hit below .300). But he’s just one season removed from hitting .334 with 212 hits.
    I found this piece by Tom Verducci, comparing the way other organizations treated their aging “icon” players, vs. how the Yankees are treating Jeter, to be interesting.
    And before SJ44 or anyone else jumps on me, of course I think $45 million is a lot of money and I would like to be “treated” that way, but we’re talking about the Yankees here, who are leaking crap to the press about what Jeter “wants” to try and make him look bad to save a few bucks. And it seems like a lot of you are falling for it hook, line and sinker.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  94. blake November 30th, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    This sums up the way I feel quite well:

    Putting a number on iconic value — especially when introducing a pay cut — is at the heart of the Yankees’ negotiating troubles with Jeter. To compare Jeter in a one-year statistical vacuum to shortstops such as Marco Scutaro is foolish. Jeter is the most marketable player in baseball, has the sport’s highest Q rating, a measurement of not just popularity but also appeal to fans, has accumulated 16 years of tremendous goodwill for the Yankees and is their modern link in the chain of Yankee Hall of Fame everyday players who never wore another uniform, from Gehrig to DiMaggio to Mantle.

    The Yankees have every right to take a hard line on Jeter based only on the ominous statistical models of how infielders age through their late 30s. They want to significantly cut his pay and they don’t want to pay him for more than three years. But also by picking a fight so publically with Jeter, the Yankees have shown a willingness to live with two consequences of such an approach: they don’t mind losing an iconic player and they don’t mind having devalued one of their greatest assets if he does come back.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....z16pRGAZe6

  95. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    “what cashman’s WAR?”

    Higher than any other active GM.

  96. mick November 30th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    The last time mgmnt dealt in sentimentality was with …..never.
    Wait let me check Ripken’s #’s, hold on…

  97. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    ” Imo, if the Yankees are smart, they figure out a way to offer Jeter a couple more years. It seems almost sure that he wants to play at least 5 more. ”

    Few tihngs would be dumber.

  98. pat November 30th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    I didn’t know that Andy had an ownership stake in minor league teams until I read it today.

    I wonder if he insists that all his players should make above league minimum or if he’s one of those know nothing suits oppressing the guys who matter?

  99. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    sj44-

    value in a marketplace negotiation isn’t figures out by some formula. how much did the milwaukee brewers lose as a franchise when molitor went to toronto? they lost fans. they lost good will. did they survive . sure, but they shoud have just given molitor more money and kept him and the fans and the longtime goodwill.

    molitor when he was older had one of those .270 seasons and came back the next year and hit .330 or so.
    jeter is not done. one bad season doesn’t mean it’s over.

    i think what we’re going to see is the yankees substantially raise their 15 million a year for three years offer and say that they did it simply as a gesture to rise above the ugliness of the situation.

    they won’t say they were wrong. they will say they are making an exception because jeter is jeter and needs to be part of the yankee family.

    i think they will say this because i think they will realize at some point that jeter would leave if they take it too far. articles like verducci are going to start gathering steam. the yankees will see that and do the smart thing. at least that’s what i think will happen.

  100. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Rich

    My mistake wrong year. But my premise holds, they found the money to sign Tex because the organization felt Tex was worth it. If that situation comes up again, they will find the money again.

  101. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    However long the Yanks sign Jeter for, that’s how long he’ll be the everyday SS. Those people advocating 4 and 5 year contracts, no Burnett whining if it doesn’t work out like you believe it will.

  102. SportsGeek November 30th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    1. If Jeter and Close were not meeting (in person or by phone or email or whatever), they wouldn’t be working in their best interests.

    2. My guess is that Jeter and the Yankees will agree on either
    (a) $18-19 mill /yr, for 4 years (w/ “personal service” clauses in the 4th and maybe 3rd years).
    OR
    (b) maybe $16-17 mill /yr with incentive clauses that could take it up to $22-23/yr, plus the personal service clauses as well.

    Actually, I think some variation of option (b) is more likely.

    3. Cashman should promote the concept of “real performance incentives” at the upcoming meetings? … Like a bonus incentive for each .010 of OPS, or for each 5 HRs, RBIs, or Runs above some expected base level. Performance incentives are more and more common in industry. They belong in baseball, too!

  103. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    If Jeter was just evaluated as a 37 year old SS, he would have been offered a 2 year deal for 10 million a year.

    That would be how it would shake out if his name wasn’t Derek Jeter.

    The Yankee offer far exceeds that. Meaning, they already have placed a value on his “icon” status.

    No SS in the history of the sport has been offered this much money AND years at this age as Jeter.

    Given those facts, it’s kinda tough to sell he’s being disrespected.

  104. SAS November 30th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Burnett whining would sound good right now.

  105. Bret The Hitman November 30th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Miguel Olivo will decline the #BlueJays’ offer of salary arbitration, source says. They’re going to get that draft pick! #Toronto #MLB
    8 minutes ago via web

  106. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Tar

    No, it doesn’t. Your point is provably false.

    They signed Teix a year in advance because Cash convinced Hal that they could use the money coming off the books in 2010 in 2009, the mistake they failed to make with Beltran in 2004 with Bernie’s contract coming off the books the following season.

    They didn’t just find the money. It was part of an organized budgetary process.

  107. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Rich in NJ: “Few tihngs would be dumber.”

    in the words of The Dude: That’s just like, your opinion, man.

    How many Yankee fans want to see Jeter passing 3,500 hits and climbing, perhaps challenging Rose, in another uniform?

    Keeping Jeter doesn’t mean you have to pay him $20 to $25 million a year. Maybe it just means you don’t need to leak your negotiations to the press to try and make him look bad.

  108. pat November 30th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    “i think what we?re going to see is the yankees substantially raise their 15 million a year for three years offer ”

    Define “substantially”.

  109. Wave Your Hat November 30th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    “How many Yankee fans want to see Jeter passing 3,500 hits and climbing, perhaps challenging Rose, in another uniform? ”

    Have you looked at how Rose hit in his last years? Do you realize he played first base?

    You don’t want that.

  110. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    “Higher than any other active GM”

    rich in nj-

    now if gms are better than other gms, how could sabergeeks not have a stat for that ?

    what a bunch of slackers.

    how can there not be a WAR stat for gms ?

    just awful.

    i’m disappointed in you and guys like jerkface and lgy and i know gb7 is too.

  111. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Randy,

    Seriously, where is he going to go?

    Boston has no interest in him.

    Nobody is bidding for his services.

    Honestly, there isn’t anyone in the game who sees Jeter going anywhere but back to the Yankees.

    He doesn’t even want to go anywhere else.

    You are trying to set this up as some kind of epic management v. player struggle and that simply isn’t the case.

    In fact, these negotiations are MUCH more cordial and non-confrontational than the last time Jeter and the Yankees negotiated a deal.

    Its just not the class struggle you seem to think it is.

    It’s just two sides, knowing they will eventually find common ground, negotiating a deal.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

  112. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Blake

    Thanks for the link.

  113. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    SJ44 — your figures might be meaningful if this wasn’t the Yankees, who, to quote Verducci’s story:
    “want to pay him less money than they committed for Kei Igawa, to pay him less money annually than they do A.J. Burnett, and, including this deal, to pay him less money over his entire Yankee career than they will give Alex Rodriguez just for the nine seasons between when he turns 34 and 43. ”

    Come on, if you were in Jeter’s shoes, you wouldn’t take a look around and say, “that seems a little disrespectful” considering everything he’s meant to the franchise?

  114. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    randy

    Remember Ernie Banks? Great player, but he played on bad teams. Why? Largely bad GMs.

    That could have happened to Jeter as well.

  115. mick November 30th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Jeter is about winning, not statistics. There were times in the past when I felt his presence on the team caused them to win games and championships. Without him they were doomed. This is why 3000 or 3500 hits is contradictory to who he really is. Extend his contract 4 years and it’s a done deal, you can’t cut his pay.

  116. blake November 30th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    SJ,

    I think the offer they have made is very fair…..I just don’t like the public nature that the whole thing has devolved to. I never saw that coming and I don’t think it has helped either sides image.

    Close took a pod shot with his “baffling” statement but on the whole it seems to me that the Yankees have been much more involved with what has been said to the press. I don’t see why they couldn’t have drawn a line in the sand and told him he could “check with other teams” etc in private. I don’t have a problem with what they are doing so much as how the whole thing has been handled…from both sides.

  117. Bret The Hitman November 30th, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Anyone see the Yankees being interested in Olivo?

  118. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    ‘They signed Teix a year in advance because Cash convinced Hal that they could use the money coming off the books in 2010 in 2009, the mistake they failed to make with Beltran in 2004 with Bernie’s contract coming off the books the following season.
    They didn’t just find the money. It was part of an organized budgetary process”

    Rich

    That is my definition of finding the money. Every year money comes off the books, granted some more than others.

  119. D-Man November 30th, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    “what cashman’s WAR?”

    From the Hardball Times -

    Freidman – 6.5
    Epstein – 6.2
    Cashman – 6.1
    Daniels – 5.9
    Jocketty – 5.8
    Sabean – 5.6
    Dombrowski – 5.5
    Amaro – 5.4
    O’Dowd – 4.9
    Mozeliak – 4.7
    Williams – 4.6
    Beane – 4.2
    Beinfest – 4.1
    Wren – 4.1
    Byrnes/DiPoto – 3.9
    Hendry 3.5
    Reagins – 3.4
    Colletti – 3.1
    McPhail – 3.1
    Anthopolous – 3.0
    Shapiro – 2.7
    Melvin – 2.5
    Rizzo – 2.2
    Smith – 1.7
    Hoyer – 1.6
    Wade – 1.1

    Minaya – -2.2
    Moore – -2.3
    Huntington – -2.3
    Zduriencik – -2.5

  120. blake November 30th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    Tar,

    not a good night on the hardwood….they just aren’t very good right now.

  121. disco stu November 30th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    “Derek Jeter’s brand has real value. It has helped make the Yankee organization what it is today. To say otherwise is really just “toeing the company line”. ”

    Tar – That is a fair point and no one should understate the fact the Derek Jeter has helped put a ton of money in the Yankees pockets.

    However, the flip side is that Derek Jeter has benefited from the Yankees brand. How much has Derek Jeter earned in endorsements over the years by selling his own brand as “Derek Jeter, Yankee superstar”? His own brand and iconic image is not just about being a productive baseball player and all-around good guy. No, it is also him being a shrewd and savvy buisnessman and using the Yankees to further market his own, unique image.

    Have the Yankees directly benefited from his endorsements? Does Derek Jeter give them a percentage of his endorsement earnings? I doubt it …nor should he. But I do find it to be a double standard where people think the Yankees should just capitulate to Jeter because of what he has given to their franchise, but see little reason to acknowledge what the Yankees have provided Derek Jeter with. I think each side has been both right and wrong.

  122. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    “in the words of The Dude: That’s just like, your opinion, man.”

    Um, yeah. This blog only contains opinions.

    “How many Yankee fans want to see Jeter passing 3,500 hits and climbing, perhaps challenging Rose, in another uniform?”

    More importantly, does Jeter want to be a Yankee? If so, he will recognize that the Yankees have made him a very fair offer, if the $45m over three years report is true.

    Rose? Right.

    “Keeping Jeter doesn’t mean you have to pay him $20 to $25 million a year. Maybe it just means you don’t need to leak your negotiations to the press to try and make him look bad.”

    The only person who has made Jeter look bad is Close, who speaks for Jeter.

  123. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    Wave Your Hat — obviously Jeter’s not going to be playing 1st base, and I certainly didn’t advocate that. I think 3b is probably more likely, with ARod and his hip dh-ing. But seriously, with a 3-year-deal this is just coming up again in 3 years. That’s just the likely reality. It’s not good for the Yankees, and it’s not good for Jeter.

  124. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Tar

    “That is my definition of finding the money. Every year money comes off the books, granted some more than others.”

    They didn’t find it. It was planned.

  125. mick November 30th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Yet Yankee brass sees the last contract given to Ripken as a mistake. They feel it will happen to Jeter. How will they feel when fans stop coming to games if the Yanks become a faceless, leaderless and god-forbid 1980′s type team esp if they don’t get Lee.

  126. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    Blake,

    When they made the offer to him, they not only explained it, they gave him unprecedented access to their overall financial picture to explain why the offer was what it was.

    When Casey came back with the “baffling” comment, it ticked them off because of the explanation and access to their finances they gave them.

    In other words, they had no reason to be “baffled”.

    As far as Burnett’s contract, he has a 5 year, 80 million dollar offer from the Braves on the table.

    With another competing offer, the Yankees had to raise their offer to gain his services. That’s how free agency works.

    Jeter has no competing offer on the table at this time.

    So, the two situations aren’t comparable at all.

  127. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    No, Rich, Close is not the one leaking the reports of what he supposedly asked for in opening the negotiation. Why would he? This should have and could have been handled with a lot more discretion and class.

  128. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    “Remember Ernie Banks? Great player, but he played on bad teams. Why? Largely bad GMs.”

    rich in nj-

    actually it was bad hot dog vendors at wrigley.

    they were so bad they never sold enough hot dogs to make the cubs enough profit to buy more players.

  129. BBFan November 30th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    “You are too blinded in your hatred of Cashman to see the reality that Derek Jeter is no longer a 20 million dollar a year player.”

    Finally someone spoke the truth.

  130. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    randy

    If the Yankees spend their money more wisely, and don’t overpay, they can buy even more great players. That means more wins!!!!!!

  131. mick November 30th, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Whether their offer is fair or not, which it might be, they have insulted Jeter.
    They are being cold and clinical toward an icon, a fan favorite.
    They should know better.
    Would George have let this happen?
    In the end they will make things right.

    Just wonder what their offer would have been if he had a typical Jeter year?

  132. pat November 30th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Lots of players declined arbitration tonight- All the eligible Rays, Putz, Feliciano, Pavano, Dunn

    Jason Frasor is the only one I’ve seen tonight that has accepted it.

  133. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    “not a good night on the hardwood….they just aren’t very good right now”

    Blake

    No they are not. Maybe they can do an opposite of last year start slow and end strong. We can hope right.

  134. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    “No, Rich, Close is not the one leaking the reports of what he supposedly asked for in opening the negotiation. Why would he? This should have and could have been handled with a lot more discretion and class.”

    We don’t know who leaks what, but he did make that baffling “baffling” comment which said more than any leak.

    It was hardly a display of discretion and class. It was outrageous and clueless.

  135. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    “Would George have let this happen?”

    As I have posted before, the George of the ’80s would have traded Jeter long ago.

  136. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Again, it’s outrageous and clueless depending on your perspective.

    Maybe given all the previously described money the Yanks have spent on the likes of Kei Igawa and A.J. Burnett, it is baffling to Jeter’s rep, given all that he has meant to the team.

    As far as not knowing who’s leaking the negotiation information, common sense tells you who it is.

  137. blake November 30th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    SJ,

    I understand that, what I don’t understand is why all of this couldn’t have been done behind closed doors. Haggling it out through the press just makes both sides look bad…..I’m actually really surprised its went down like this.

  138. EA November 30th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    What Jeter/Close have to realize is that the Yankees ARE paying him for being Derek Jeter.

    Look at the contracts handed out to SS with comparable numbers last year like Tejada and Uribe. Derek Jeter is getting DOUBLE that from the Yankees, when the numbers suggest he was actually worse offensively than they were (and worse D than Uribe).

    They may be insulted being compared to guys like Uribe, but he had better numbers than Derek and is 6 years younger. Jeter is 37, with declining range, hit .270, hit 1 HR after June, and had to have a scorching hot final 2 weeks just to get his OPS to .710. Yet he is getting paid double what all these other guys are. He will be the the highest paid SS by 40% during the life of his deal (Tulo’s big payday only comes in after year 4).

    They are not ignoring the intangibles. They are paying him double his value just for those intangibles. If it were based on performance, he can look at the Uribe contract for his true market value.

  139. randy l. November 30th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    “It’s just two sides, knowing they will eventually find common ground, negotiating a deal.

    Nothing more, nothing less.”

    sj44-

    if this is your position, we are in agreement.

    i thought you were saying before that the 3 year 45 million deal was the yankee final offer and that jeter should take it or leave it.

    if you’re saying there will be a higher common ground than the initial offer then we’re basically in agreement.

  140. blake November 30th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    there is renewed optimism in jeter #yankees talks, si.com has learned. sides having conversations/confabs designed to kick start things.

  141. Yank1 November 30th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    there is renewed optimism in jeter #yankees talks, si.com has learned. sides having conversations/confabs designed to kick start things

  142. BoJo November 30th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    I’d like to see the Yankees give Jeter a 5 year deal at $25m PER…AS SOON AS HE DELIVERS A CURE FOR CANCER.

  143. Yank1 November 30th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    blake beat me to it lol

  144. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    “Again, it’s outrageous and clueless depending on your perspective.”

    You’re right. I think a player being offered 50% or more than any other team would offer would be grateful. What do I know?

    “Maybe given all the previously described money the Yanks have spent on the likes of Kei Igawa and A.J. Burnett, it is baffling to Jeter’s rep, given all that he has meant to the team.”

    This is silly. Choose any bad contract you want. When the Yankees signed those contracts, they had a reasonable belief that they were good contracts. What you are asking is for the Yankees to offer a contract that they know is bad at the time it is being offered. That makes no sense.

    “As far as not knowing who’s leaking the negotiation information, common sense tells you who it is.”

    Heh.

  145. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    WCYF
    Thanks

    disco stu
    It has been a mutually beneficial relationship, without a doubt. I feel the Yankees can and should have handled this negotation better. And afterr reading Verducci maybe with more foresight

    Rich
    semantics, but whatever.

  146. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Tar

    “semantics, but whatever.”

    Nope, pure substance.

  147. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    I never said it was a take it or leave it offer.

    I did say it’s a great offer that includes “icon status” within the offer.

    I will tell you though that absent a competitive counteroffer, I don’t see the Yankees significantly altering their position.

    I definitely don’t see more years added to the deal, nor do I see them going to 20 million.

    I do see a deal getting done by the end of the winter meetings at the latest.

  148. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    Good news………both sides are motivated to get something done and I’m sure they will

  149. Dill Pickler November 30th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    EA, what people like you need to realize is that the dollar amount YOU put on Jeter being Jeter isn’t necessarily the same figure that Jeter thinks he is worth to the franchise, particularly in light of what the franchise is paying/has paid out to other players on the team.

    You look at it as if, based on last season (and just last season), Jeter is worth x amount. Compare that to Juan Uribe and he should be paid x amount. So the fact that the Yankees have offered more than that means the offer is fair and Jeter should accept it. Fine. But that doesn’t mean that Jeter and Close have to agree with the number that YOU came up with for his value.

    That’s all I’m saying, is how about being a little less judgmental of Jeter — who has done so much for this team over the years — based on some leaks during the negotiation by management?

    Personally I don’t care what the final number is, I just want Jeter to finish his career as a Yankee and I want it to make sense for the Yankees too. It’s the public handling of the negotiation that doesn’t sit well with me. It’s not good for Jeter and it’s not good for the team. And I just don’t get how supposed yankee fans are willling to just toss Jeter under the bus based on a few leaks from management during the negotiation.

  150. SJ44 November 30th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    There was never not going to be a deal getting done.

    Jeter was never going anywhere else.

  151. blake November 30th, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Perhaps the Yanks want to get a deal done with Jeter this week so that they can 100% focus on that other guy next week.

  152. Tar November 30th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    “Nope, pure substance”

    What was the substance Rich. That Cashman had to go the Steinbrenner’s and say we have to get this guy. We can help pay for it with money coming off the books next year.

    The fact is Cashman targeted Tex as a player he had to have (for many reasons) and found a way to get him. This after adding CC and AJ’s huge contracts.

    Spin it anyway you want. He got his guy. And no matter what Jeter signs for, if that situation comes up again, he will get his guy again. Then you can say well they had x amount coming off the books the next year, so it was pre-planned.

  153. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    “Would George have let this happen?”

    —————————–

    Are we talking about the same George Steinbrenner?

    Because the one I remember didn’t exactly have a clean track record for treating important Yankee players and managers well.

  154. pat November 30th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Way to hedge your bet. Cite conflicting sources.

    SI_JonHeyman once source indicates #yankees might bump offer to #jeter to $51 mil and possibly add a 4th yr option. another source: “nothing imminent”

  155. Betsy November 30th, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    Man, I hope that first source is wrong………….

  156. LGY November 30th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    Hell, Old George doesn’t even have a clean track record when it comes to his treatment of Derek.

  157. TD213 November 30th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    once source indicates #yankees might bump offer to #jeter to $51 mil and possibly add a 4th yr option

    ———-

    Yanks have no reason to add either of those things to their offer. Besides, unless Jeter has the option, it doesn’t do him any good.

  158. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    Tar

    I don’t have to spin anything. The facts are on my side.

    The substance is that they aren’t able to find a boat load of money that they are willing to spend under the seat cushion in any given year.

    If they have expiring contracts perhaps one year from the date that a good player is available, they may choose to accelerate an expenditure.

    If not, they pass.

    The timing of that budgetary flexibility was available for Teix.

    It wasn’t there for Holliday.

    The moral of the story is that the more cost-effective contracts they sign, the more players they can pursue.

    Why anyone would want to go beyond a 50% premium for a soon to be 37 year old SS who may be declining is beyond me.

    Why not spend money on Crawford or Werth (in addition to Lee) now and not pick up Swisher’s 2012 option? They don’t have the money that they are willing to spend.

  159. Crawdaddy November 30th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    Interesting read on the blog tonight, especially with Randy spinning his usual crap that more reasonable people called him out on.

  160. Rich in NJ November 30th, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Heyman is a tool.

  161. Yanks78 November 30th, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    lol if the Yankees are willing to up their offer like that, of course Jeter’s camp is receptive to it….

  162. Crawdaddy November 30th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    I agree, these writers keep posting crap that they hear or not hear in some cases.

  163. pat December 1st, 2010 at 12:04 am

    The thinking seems to be that adding an option year with a $6M buy out would make the AAV of a 3 year deal higher than the AAV of the 10 year deal so both sides could save face/declare victory depending on how you choose to look at it.

  164. UnKnown December 1st, 2010 at 12:06 am

    I like Tulo a lot. He loves Jeter. The reason why he wears number 2. Good Guy, glad he re-signed with the Rockies.

  165. Rich in NJ December 1st, 2010 at 12:06 am

    I’d be careful with a buyout. The pressure to pick up the fourth year option will be intense even if he has been a BUI for a year or two.

  166. randy l. December 1st, 2010 at 12:11 am

    “I like Tulo a lot. He loves Jeter. The reason why he wears number 2″

    there is no truth to the rumor that brian cashman wants jeter to wear a new number – 1 1/2.

  167. Jerkface December 1st, 2010 at 12:13 am

    the reality is no one in the baseball business thinks a gm is worth even an average player.

    Management is quite useless, and yet some people here think Joe Torre deserved to be paid more than an average baseball player

  168. G. Love December 1st, 2010 at 12:14 am

    Every extra dollar needlessly spent to placate Jeter’s ego at this point are luxury taxed dollars. The Yankees don’t just pay his salary. They end up paying a tax on his salary that goes to fund the rest of the teams in baseball.

    So Jeter holding a gun to the Yankees head dollar wise has more impact than what the number is.

    That’s why all the “Jeter’s money doesn’t effect the Yankees” talk is nonsense. You add up all those luxury tax dollars from paying players top dollar and it stops the team from spending more.

    Now you can say the same thing about every Yankee on the roster contributing to the tax, but most of them signed deals from a point of leverage and/or in their primes so they were paid handsomely based on what they were worth.

    Jeter isn’t worth the dollars the Yankees offered him so far.

    He will get more then the 45 million, but hopefully it’s not much more since his overpayment has an effect on payroll and luxury tax.

  169. Jerkface December 1st, 2010 at 12:14 am

    there is no truth to the rumor that brian cashman wants jeter to wear a new number – 1 1/2.

    Vicious of him to request Jeter wear his range factor on his sleeve, scarlet letter’d

  170. Tar December 1st, 2010 at 12:18 am

    “The moral of the story is that the more cost-effective contracts they sign, the more players they can pursue”

    Believe it or not, I not only get that but agree with it. Just not when the player is Derek Jeter. First because of history, second because he is not done and will help the team ( they do need a SS), and third because having Jeter on the Yankees helps the teams bottom line.

    “Why anyone would want to go beyond a 50% premium for a soon to be 37 year old SS who may be declining is beyond me.’

    “who may be” Interesting.

    Maybe he still is a homegrown, 5 ring holding, first ballot HOF’er, Yankee captain who may have a lot left in his tank and deserves that 50% premium. Or maybe it really is beyond you.

    Good night all.

  171. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 12:24 am

    G. Love — so A.J. burnett was worth the money? The Yankees weren’t negotiating against themselves on some of these deals? Kei Igawa was worth the money?

    Would Jeter be worth the money based on his 2009 season? He has one bad season in his career and you say he’s not worth the money in luxury tax???? wow. Do you even remember where this team was before Jeter came along?

  172. Rich in NJ December 1st, 2010 at 12:25 am

    “Believe it or not, I not only get that but agree with it. Just not when the player is Derek Jeter. First because of history, second because he is not done and will help the team ( they do need a SS), and third because having Jeter on the Yankees helps the teams bottom line.”

    Maybe I’m wrong, but I think you’re saying that you think Jeter is bigger than the team.

    We don’t know what Jeter has left. It’s all a guess, but the most recent sample wasn’t encouraging.

    Nothing helps the bottomline more than winning. Every great and near great player that every played for the Yankees was replaced and the team continued to make big bucks as long as the won.

    “Maybe he still is a homegrown, 5 ring holding, first ballot HOF’er, Yankee captain who may have a lot left in his tank and deserves that 50% premium. Or maybe it really is beyond you.”

    I said I am fine with the 50% premium. That doesn’t seem to be enough for him.

  173. Yanks78 December 1st, 2010 at 12:25 am

    “I’d be careful with a buyout. The pressure to pick up the fourth year option will be intense even if he has been a BUI for a year or two.”

    Bingo

    Nothing good comes from any kind of option. Because there is an enormous conflict of interest. Especially in a vesting option. A team option has no use for Jeter. A player option is obviously a no-no.

  174. Jerkface December 1st, 2010 at 12:25 am

    He has one bad season in his career and you say he’s not worth the money in luxury tax????

    Jeter has had more than 1 ‘sub par’ season in his career.

  175. Rich in NJ December 1st, 2010 at 12:27 am

    “Would Jeter be worth the money based on his 2009 season? He has one bad season in his career and you say he’s not worth the money in luxury tax???? wow. Do you even remember where this team was before Jeter came along?”

    How was 2008?

    So Jeter came along and like Michael Jordan he dominated the game and carried the team on his back.

    Jeez.

  176. Yanks78 December 1st, 2010 at 12:27 am

    “Jeter has had more than 1 ’sub par’ season in his career.”

    2 in the last 3 years

  177. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 12:28 am

    sub par compared to what, jerkface? His great years? Before last year he had never hit below .290. How many other shortstops in history can you say that about?

  178. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 12:30 am

    in 2008 Jeter hit .300. If that’s “sub par” I’ll take it from a shortstop any day.

    Did I say he “carried the team on his back like Jordan”? Nobody can do that in baseball. I never said he alone won all those championships. On the other hand, if not for “the flip” the yanks most likely have one less championship trophy.

  179. G. Love December 1st, 2010 at 12:36 am

    Dill,

    When we signed AJ Burnett he was being pursued by the Braves for similar money.

    At the time we signed him we absolutely needed him since the 2008 rotation was a disaster. AJ was one of the stronger pitchers in the AL East prior to that signing.

    He had leverage.

    Jeter has none. It’s not just one bad season. His 2008 season was not great as well. Certainly not 20 million dollar great.

    In 2 of the past 3 years Jeter has not lived up to his contract dollars. He gets a pass because he’s Jeter.

    In 1 of the past 2 years AJ Burnett has not lived up to his contract dollars. He gets villified because he’s not Jeter.

    Now I would never draw a comparison between those two players, but since you did I am putting it into perspective for you.

    Was Jeter worth 20 million last year? No.

    Was he worth it in 2008? No.

    Did he pay the Yankees back for his underperformance? No.

    Because no player pays back for under performance.

    The only way ownership can right wrongs is when they have the hammer. They have it now. Jeter does not deserve what he’s being offered and what he will end up getting.

    The whole point is every time the Yankees overpay for a player it takes away money they can spend in other areas.

    The Yankees will never let their opening day payroll be 230 million dollars nor should they.

  180. Rich in NJ December 1st, 2010 at 12:39 am

    “in 2008 Jeter hit .300. If that’s “sub par” I’ll take it from a shortstop any day.”

    OPS+
    2008: 102
    Career: 119

    That’s the definition of subpar.

    “Did I say he “carried the team on his back like Jordan”? Nobody can do that in baseball. I never said he alone won all those championships. On the other hand, if not for “the flip” the yanks most likely have one less championship trophy.”

    They had the 2nd best record in MLB in 1994 before the lockout. Jeter was a mLer then.

    I hate hate hate to invoked Michael Kay, but your example illustrates the fallacy of the pre-determined outcome.

  181. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 12:51 am

    let me put it into perspective for you, G. Love.

    You say A.J. Burnett was “worth the money” because some other team was willing to pay similar dollars. A lot of people were against that signing then and I’d say they’ve been proven right so far (even in his “good year” he won what? 13 games? Is that worth the money?)

    So A.J. Burnett — who last season was the worst pitcher in franchise history! and has been with the team all of two years, is worth the money and Derek Jeter — who has done everything he’s done for the franchise — is not. That’s one perspective.

    You can sit here and spew about “Jeter isn’t worth this” and “Jeter does not deserve what is being offered” because it isn’t personal to you. It is personal to Jeter. Is it personal to you how much you are paid at your job? In comparison to other people at your company?

    Try to look at someone’s perspective other than your own and admit that your perspective isn’t necessarily the only possible truth.

    I am not saying Jeter (or any baseball player) is worth $20 million a year. Or even $1 million a year, fercryinoutloud. But when the Yankees are spending more money on Kei Igawa than they are offering Derek Jeter — and negotiating in the press just because they can, or “because they have the hammer” as you say, it rankles me. Who does it benefit?

    How much do the Yankees make off of Derek Jeter? Do you know that figure?
    How many of the 5 world series or 7 pennants would the Yankees have won without him? How much are they worth to our collective memories as Yankee fans? All the great plays and clutch hits that Jeter has produced?

    And why are you so eager to jump on a message board and berate him based on some anonymous reports of what the negotiation is?

    I expect this kind of Jeter-hate from Red Sox fans, not Yankee fans.

  182. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 12:58 am

    Yes, Rich, his 2008 season in which he hit .300 was subpar for him, which tells you a lot about Jeter’s career. And he bounced back with a great 2009 season.

    Of course nobody with a brain will argue that Jeter’s performance is not going to decline in his waning years. Did that begin in 2010? Will he bounce back with a strong 2011? We don’t know that. Just like we don’t know how many championships the team would have won without him.

    Ask his teammates what Jeter has meant to this team.

  183. Rich in NJ December 1st, 2010 at 1:03 am

    Dill Pickler

    I already pointed out the difference to you. At the time of contract formation, the Yankees had a reasonable belief that every contract they signed would be a good contract. The same is not true of Jeter, yet they are still willing to pay him 50% more than any other team will likely offer. That’s just soooooo awful.

    And btw, the Igawa contract “only” pays him $4m a year. You conveniently overlooked the posting fee. MLB rules being what they are.

    “How many of the 5 world series or 7 pennants would the Yankees have won without him?”

    Probably the same, maybe more, maybe less. Why? They would have spent the money (and or prospects) on another top player(s). it’s the way of the world. No one is irreplaceable.

    “I expect this kind of Jeter-hate from Red Sox fans, not Yankee fans.”

    Could you be any more fatuous?

    “Try to look at someone’s perspective other than your own and admit that your perspective isn’t necessarily the only possible truth”

    Pot meet kettle.

  184. Jerkface December 1st, 2010 at 1:05 am

    Jeter hit an empty, powerless .300 in 08, and didn’t get on base quite like he used to. And he hit an even emptier .270 in 2010. He has OPS’d under .800 4 times in his career. A-rod has OPS’d under .900 3 times. One is deserving of 20 million a year, the other was very lucky to be a yankee (and conversely the yankees were lucky to have him) and should now accept his very above market contract offer.

  185. Rich in NJ December 1st, 2010 at 1:07 am

    “Yes, Rich, his 2008 season in which he hit .300 was subpar for him, which tells you a lot about Jeter’s career. And he bounced back with a great 2009 season.”

    Yes, it tells you that Jeter has been special because he isn’t Matty Alou. He had pop as well as AVG. That pop wasn’t there in 2008 or 2010. So maybe 2009 is the outlier. You should be able to see that, right? Because unlike anyone who disagrees with you, you can see all perspectives.

    “Of course nobody with a brain will argue that Jeter’s performance is not going to decline in his waning years. Did that begin in 2010? Will he bounce back with a strong 2011? We don’t know that. Just like we don’t know how many championships the team would have won without him.”

    Exactly, so its’ fair for him to bear 50% of the risk. Yet the Yankees aren’t asking him to do that.

    “Ask his teammates what Jeter has meant to this team.”

    Sure thing.

  186. G. Love December 1st, 2010 at 1:08 am

    Dill,

    You talk like Jeter was the only player on those 5 championship teams.

    He wasn’t.

    He was one of 25. He didn’t win titles by himself. There were different heroes for every single one of those.

    YOU are the one who keep drawing parallels between Burnett, Igawa and Jeter.

    You want to talk rationally and not froth at the mouth, then I’ll engage in discourse.

    But I don’t think Jeter is worth the money much like I’m sure people in my industry and outside of industry don’t think I’m worth the money I get paid to do what I love for a living.

    That doesn’t make my opinion that the Yankees should not overpay Jeter in years and money any less valid than it does your opinion that they should give him all the money he wants, plus add in all the mistake contracts as a nice gold watch bonus to make him feel special.

    If he doesn’t feel special and loved financially by the Yankees at this point in his career than I have nothing for him. They made him captain. They paid him top dollar. When they acquired a better fielding SS in Arod they didn’t ask Jeter to move his position. They surround him with the best players, the best equipment, the best of everything.

    He’s not a 20 million dollar player. Just because the Yankees gave Igawa, Jaret Wright and Pavano deals that blew up in their faces does not mean Jeter should be paid more.

    Giambi stole money from the Yankees for the life of his contract. When his contract was up, he couldn’t get a fraction of what he thought he was worth nor could he remain a Yankee.

    The Yankees are offering a Jeter a chance to stay exactly where he is and pay him handsomely for it.

    And as for his value to the Yankees, that’s debatable.

    I paid for my season tickets for next year. If Jeter walks, I’ll keep them and won’t ask for money back.

    I don’t go to see the NY Jeter’s. I go to see the NY Yankees and for them to remain competitive in the future they cannot and should not have to give out golden parachute deals to players who do not deserve them.

    If that makes me a Red Sox fan for not wanting my team to overpay a star player in years and dollars because the team may be hamstrung financially and roster wise and will take a hit in the standings, so be it.

    I see no reason to give Jeter any more than he’s worth to the rest of baseball. If we save some money on him maybe we can actually have a bench full of players who can step in and give Jeter and Arod a break without losing so much talent/offense.

  187. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 1:19 am

    Rich, and I have already pointed the difference out to you. Just because the Yankees had a “reasonable belief” that every contract they signed would be a good contract doesn’t matter to a player in Jeter’s position. He is looking at what the franchise is willing to pay to other players on the team, and what his value is and has been to the franchise.

    As for Kei Igawa, I am not forgetting the posting fee. and it doesn’t matter. What matters is that the Yankees were willing to pay that amount to negotiate with and sign Kei Igawa. The posting fee is part of his total price, what the organization spent on him.

    As for perspectives, as I have said time and again in this argument, I do see both sides of the argument. I understand the yankees’ side, that they want to keep costs down as much as possible, that Jeter is an aging player whose performance declined sharply last year. I also see Jeter’s side. That he is a Yankee icon who has been the face of the franchise for 15 years, who is the team captain, the all-time franchise hits leader and all the rest.

    What I don’t agree with is the public way that they are going about this negotiation, the leaks to the press designed to make Jeter look bad, and the ease with which some so-called Yankee fans are willing to dump on Jeter just because of this.

    As for how many championships the team would have won without him, I doubt the number is the same or more. How irreplaceable some people are is also a matter of perspective. The team would not have been the same without Jeter, of that there is no doubt. They also wouldn’t have been the same without Paul O’Neil, or Mariano Rivera, or Bernie Williams. But again, ask any of those guys how much Jeter has meant to the team.

  188. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 1:29 am

    G. Love, find a post of mine where I have said the Yankees should give Jeter all the money he wants, or even $20 million. I will wait. Go ahead.

    What? Couldn’t find it? That’s because it doesn’t exist.

    All I have said is that I would like to see the negotiations handled in private and with a bit more class, and that I’d hope that the Yankees would be willing to give a little bit so that Jeter could save face. I want Jeter to finish his career a Yankee. That’s all. And I think the guy is due a little more respect from some Yankee fans for what he’s done and meant to the team. That’s all.

    I, too, do not want the yankees to be hamstrung financially. But I can also understand what it has to seem like to Jeter. That they were willing to give ARod $275 million over 10 years (when he will be 34-43 years old), that they were willing to spend all this money on Kei Igawa and A.J. Burnett and now when it comes to him they are suddenly getting stingy? Can you not understand how it would seem that way to Jeter?

    I think Jeter deserves that Yankee fans at least just understand his perspective, that’s all.
    Let the two sides hammer out a deal in private and get it done. I did not mean to insinuate that you are a Red Sox fan because you want the Yankees to be fiscally sane. But it does seem like a lot of Yankee fans have forgotten all the great things Jeter has done for this team over the years and are ready to just cast him off.

  189. jacksquat December 1st, 2010 at 1:36 am

    As others have said, using other bad contracts as justification for giving Jeter a bad contract is about the dumbest argument one could make.

  190. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 1:38 am

    Jerkface, what would ARod’s OPS have been without a little help in the pharmaceutical department? Has Jeter ever brought disgrace on the Yankees?

    There is more to the game than hitting home runs.

  191. Jerkface December 1st, 2010 at 1:40 am

    Jerkface, what would ARod’s OPS have been without a little help in the pharmaceutical department?

    Higher than Jeters.

  192. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 1:41 am

    jacksquat, I’m not using the bad contracts as justification for anything. If you took the time to actually read my posts, you would understand that I am simply saying that, from Jeter’s perspective, of course he is going to use what the team is paying to other players on the team as a gauge to what he believes he should be paid.

  193. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 1:42 am

    And of course OPS is the only thing that matters in baseball, insofar as winning.

  194. Jerkface December 1st, 2010 at 1:55 am

    And of course OPS is the only thing that matters in baseball, insofar as winning.

    Try winning without it.

  195. West Coast Yankee Fan December 1st, 2010 at 1:57 am

    http://blogbeckett.wordpress.c.....ust-might/

  196. West Coast Yankee Fan December 1st, 2010 at 1:59 am

    Optimism Between Jeter, Yankees
    By Ben Nicholson-Smith
    November 30, 2010 at 10:28pm CST

    The Yankees and Derek Jeter are becoming optimistic about reaching a new deal, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter). The sides are having conversations designed to kickstart an agreement, Heyman reports.

    Mark Feinsand and Bill Madden of the New York Daily News reported earlier tonight that agent Casey Close recently reached out to the Yankees to move negotiations forward. Both sides are in Tampa, where they met today, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.

    Just last week, the sides appeared to be tens of millions of dollars apart and GM Brian Cashman encouraged Jeter to test the open market.

  197. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 2:00 am

    Because the San Francisco Giants had the best OPS in baseball this year, right?

    Are you actually trying to say that Alex Rodriguez has meant, not just more to the franchise but more than 6 times what Jeter has meant to the franchise?

  198. Patrick December 1st, 2010 at 2:09 am

    Since becoming a Yankee, A-rod has been significantly more valuable than Jeter.

  199. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 2:11 am

    That is very arguable, especially when you consider the steroid allegations and all the other stuff that comes with ARod.

  200. Jerkface December 1st, 2010 at 2:12 am

    Because the San Francisco Giants had the best OPS in baseball this year, right?

    .249 .306 .450 .756 vs .190 .259 .288 .546

    Its no surprise the team with the better OPS won the World Series. You can’t win without it because you’re not scoring runs without it. You want the players with the best OPS because they are giving you the best shot to win.

    You also want good pitchers and good defenders to reduce the opponents OPS, but Jeter is neither so that point is disregarded.

    Do the Yankees win in 09 without A-rod’s amazing postseason? And the Yankees don’t pay Jeter for what he ‘meant’, they pay him for what he will mean. Now and in the future. And it ain’t as much as 10 years ago.

  201. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 2:41 am

    That’s not true. The Yankees clearly will pay Jeter something for what he has meant. How much is what is up to debate. And what he has meant and will mean is not entirely measurable in statistics.

    do the yankees even get to the postseason or win in 09 without Jeter’s great regular season?

    As for whether Jeter is a good defender, the coaches and managers voted him the Gold Glove.

  202. lounge lizard December 1st, 2010 at 2:47 am

    “On the other hand, if not for ‘the flip’ the yanks most likely have one less championship trophy.”

    _______________________________________________

    Alas, no championship that year (also the year of Mr. November).

  203. Nick in SF December 1st, 2010 at 3:04 am

    “baseball is a competition of baseball players. it is not a competition of managements. when management or fans of management forget this they forget what the game is about. ”

    Demented but cute.

    Nunez is a baseball player too, who needs Jeter?

  204. BJK December 1st, 2010 at 3:55 am

    Wow, some of these arguments are mind-boggling.

    I can’t believe some people are comparing Jeter’s negotiations to AJ Burnett and Kei Igawa.

    In case you haven’t noticed, starting pitching is a premium paid position. Starting pitchers tend to get paid more than position players because it’s so hard to find good ones.

    AJ Burnett is getting paid what he is getting paid because that is what the market determined his value was at that time. Same goes with Igawa. Burnett was coming off the best year of his career, and if I’m not mistaken so was Igawa.

    The market for SS is much different. They simply don’t get paid as much as starting pitchers. Tulo, arguably the top SS in the game, just signed a contract extension that will pay him an annual average of about $15.6 million during his peak years.

    So can we stop the nonsense of comparing Jeter’s contract negotiations to what Burnett and Igawa and Pavano and Wright got? It’s apples and oranges. Not to mention that Jeter is coming off the worst year of his career. That’s not what gets you a raise.

    When all is said and done, Jeter will probably sign for about 17-18 million a year. That will keep him the highest annual average paid SS in the game, and should also placate those of you who are so concerned about Burnett getting a few bucks more than him.

  205. BJK December 1st, 2010 at 4:06 am

    And one more thing.

    The Yankees care about winning World Series Rings. That’s what it’s all about.

    In his first 5 years, Jeter helped lead the Yankees to 4 Championships in 5 years.

    He was rewarded with a 10 year, $189 million dollar contract.

    Since then, Jeter helped lead the Yankees to 1 Championships in 10 years.

    Jeter is a first ballot hall of famer, ranking up with the greatest Yankees of all time. But let’s keep things in perspective here… in Yankeeland, it’s about the Rings, and the money is going to reflect that.

  206. West Coast Yankee Fan December 1st, 2010 at 4:22 am

    NEW YORK (AP) -Hank Steinbrenner thinks Derek Jeter and the New York Yankees will agree to a new contract.

    “I feel confident that Derek will remain with the Yankees, and my brother does, as well,” New York’s co-chairman said Tuesday night in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

    The Yankees resumed negotiations Tuesday with Jeter and his agent, Casey Close, a baseball official familiar with the discussion said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the team and Close didn’t make any announcements.

    Neither the official nor Steinbrenner would discuss what took place directly between the sides in the talks, which were first reported by foxsports.com.

    “I’m not going to get into who’s met who,” Steinbrenner said.

    New York had offered Jeter a $45 million, three-year contract at the start of negotiations. Going into Tuesday, the All-Star shortstop had not made a formal proposal.

    Ahead of the session with the Yankees, Jeter met with Close to prepare for the resumption of talks, the official said. The sides had not met since Nov. 8.

    Before Tuesday, Close had suggested a contract averaging about $23 million for four or five seasons, the baseball official said, but the numbers were suggested loosely by Close and should not be interpreted as a precise request.

    “We want to keep him. He’s very important,” Hank Steinbrenner said. “I certainly hope he remains with us and he certainly should.”

    Jeter, who turns 37 in June, is coming off a $189 million, 10-year contract, behind only Alex Rodriguez’s $275 million and $252 million, 10-year deals.

  207. BJK December 1st, 2010 at 4:24 am

    What are we still doing up, WCYF?

  208. ron December 1st, 2010 at 5:09 am

    As said above,you get what the market says you get.

    If teams get in the mix & offer jeter 16 million,we should go higher but i just don’t see another team topping 15 million.

    As usual the yankees will get held hostage because of their revenues & name.

    For once can we get a player that will say you know what,a 3/45 is enough?
    There is a reason why we as fans respect players who take less.

  209. Crawdaddy December 1st, 2010 at 5:31 am

    “There is a reason why we as fans respect players who take less.”

    Because the players are stupid! Ticket prices aren’t rolling back because of the players taking less money.

    It’s funny how fans are aligned more with billionaire owners than players trying to maximize their earning potential.

    I call it envy on the fans part.

  210. Crawdaddy December 1st, 2010 at 5:41 am

    As much as I side with the Yankees in the Jeter negotiations, I have no problem whatsoever with Jeter and his agent utilizing the negotiation process to get as much money out of the Yankees as possible. Unlike certain Yankee fans, I’m not personally offended by Jeter asking for what the Yankees are apparently not going to give him. Furthermore, I feel the same way about how the Yankee management has handled these negotiations. It’s simply a business transaction in my view.

  211. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 5:44 am

    119 days until Opening Day

  212. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 5:45 am

    Actually, it’s 118 days until Opening Daty

  213. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 5:47 am

    It’s just the man trying to keep the little people down.

  214. Nat December 1st, 2010 at 6:15 am

    You the Staff Duty Officer GB7 or an early riser? :)

  215. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 6:18 am

    No, the twins woke me up. They must have assumed it was beer and pizza time.

    Actually, “Killer” needed out and he woke the babies up

  216. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 7:01 am

    thanks for the countdown GB…usually that is Erica’s job…I was hoping the Johnny Damon talk yesterday would lure her back…no such luck :(

  217. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:11 am

    Kate, I heard that Erica was pretend honeymooning with the pretend JD in pretend Hawaii. Just a rumor though. Both Bluster Only and Jon Heyman were reporting it.

  218. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 7:14 am

    I hope she is having a pretend good time

  219. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:18 am

    upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 7:14 am
    I hope she is having a pretend good time

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Me too. I have to assume she is. Ken Rosenthal reported that she had secret tryst with both Bert and Ernie and has another one today with Snoopy.

  220. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:21 am

    I just hope that Erin doesn’t find out about Bert and Ernie, though. She’ll scratch Erica’s pretend eyes out.

  221. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 7:30 am

    it will be fine as long as Erica leaves Robbie alone

  222. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:38 am

    yeah…that would start Armageddon.

  223. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 7:41 am

    yeah no kidding, you just don’t mess w/ your pretend twin’s PBF :)

  224. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:49 am

    There’d by hair extensions, false eye lashes, push-ups and booty pops flying everywhere.

    Might be a chance to make some money by selling tickets, concessions and running a bookie stand to take bets. I wonder if we could get a pay-per-view contract?

  225. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:50 am

    There’d ***be*** hair

  226. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 7:52 am

    maybe we could use the proceeds for the “Jeter fund”

  227. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:53 am

    Sure. We could buy Jeter, Lee, Pettitte and Rivera and then lease them to the Yankees. The money would never end.

  228. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 7:56 am

    I suppose we should cut Erin and Erica in for some of the gate. 1% and winner take all.

  229. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 8:02 am

    as long as we get our cut

  230. Tom in N.J. December 1st, 2010 at 8:09 am

    “There is no way the Rangers go for six years and $140 million,” an AL executive said of what other officials believe Lee is looking for. “At that money they are out of it. That leaves the Yankees.”

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z16rhNu47U

  231. Joe from Long Island December 1st, 2010 at 8:12 am

    Good morning, all –

    Ah, another day, another day…. What shall we talk about?

  232. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 8:16 am

    well Joe how was your trip to Paris?

  233. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 8:16 am

    54% a piece. I suppose that we’ll have to cut Chad in for advertising fees. Maybe put up posters at Lace And Stilletos. Put pix of them up at the top of this page. Surely, the girls wouldn’t object to that.

  234. Betsy December 1st, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Ugh, Hank is opening is big mouth again…………fantastic. I guess Hal can’t keep him quiet anymore. How I hate hate him with a passion.

  235. Betsy December 1st, 2010 at 8:17 am

    WC, in the future, can you please post the links to the articles you post? Thank you.

  236. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 8:20 am

    Watching Hazel Mae on MLB with Ken Rosenthal. Talk about “Beauty And The Beast”. Sk’e taller than he is.

  237. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 8:21 am

    ***She’s*** taller

  238. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 8:27 am

    What did he say? This? not a thing wrong in that/

    And Yankees’ co-chairman Hank Steinbrenner told the AP he feels “confident that Derek will remain with the Yankees, and my brother does, as well.”

    Neither the official nor Steinbrenner would discuss what took place directly between the sides in the talks.

    “I’m not going to get into who’s met who,” Steinbrenner said.

  239. SJ44 December 1st, 2010 at 8:28 am

    What did Hank say that was so wrong?

    No contract negotiation has ever been derailed for being positive something will get done.

    He said nothing wrong.

  240. Betsy December 1st, 2010 at 8:30 am

    SJ, I detest Hank. I didn’t say he said anything wrong (THIS time), but I hate how he can’t keep his trap shut; he just can not help himself.

  241. Yankee Trader December 1st, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Good morning all. GB7- did you pull and all nighter?

    From the Post:
    For the next 10 seasons Tulowitzki will average $15.7 million.

    When the Yankees made their $15 million per year offer it was widely pointed out that Jeter would be the highest paid middle infielder in baseball if he accepted.

    Now, Tulowitzki, who is considered the best overall shortstop in baseball, has moved past that mark.

    How about 51M/3years with some sort of 4th year mutual option and call it a day.

  242. Betsy December 1st, 2010 at 8:33 am

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....uHR2cDWqqJ

    Armed with the belief the Yankees are willing to pay Cliff Lee $23 million a year, the Rangers are on the verge of making an official offer to retain the left-handed free-agent hurler.

    According to a person with knowledge of Texas’ plans, the Rangers are not wary of going to five years in a contract offer for the 32-year-old Lee. Nevertheless, if Lee opts for the most money, the Rangers are not expected to top the Yankees, who the AL champions believe already have made a five- or six-year offer to Lee.

    “They want to know soon on Lee,” the person said of the Rangers, who have prepared backup plans if Lee leaves the team he pitched to the World Series.

    Lee’s agent, Darek Braunecker, did not confirm or deny whether an offer from the Rangers was made yesterday or whether one is coming today.

    He did say the process continues to stay in motion.

    “We are starting to move stuff along,” Braunecker said.

  243. pat December 1st, 2010 at 8:33 am

    Kate and GB working on becoming know nothing management suits this morning?

    “you just don?t mess w/ your pretend twin?s PBF” The fact that I thought “can you imagine” when reading that scares me a little. :wink:

  244. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 8:34 am

    What’s he supposed to do when he gets a call? Slam down the receiver? Tell the caller that it’s none of his %^*$_^#@ business?

  245. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 8:36 am

    Pat
    just a little lull in the never ending jeter talk

  246. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Yankee Trader December 1st, 2010 at 8:32 am
    Good morning all. GB7- did you pull and all nighter?

    From the Post:
    For the next 10 seasons Tulowitzki will average $15.7 million.

    When the Yankees made their $15 million per year offer it was widely pointed out that Jeter would be the highest paid middle infielder in baseball if he accepted.

    Now, Tulowitzki, who is considered the best overall shortstop in baseball, has moved past that mark.

    How about 51M/3years with some sort of 4th year mutual option and call it a day

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Morning, Trader. No, I have the twins with me and “Killer” woke them up trying to get out of their playpen. The kids are with me because their great grandmother (my ex) passed away last night and their momma is with the family.

  247. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 8:40 am

    oh GB I am so sorry to hear about your loss

  248. GreenBeret7 December 1st, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Thank you, kate, I appreciate the kind thoughts. She was a great lady and a real sweetheart. I screwed up on that years ago.

  249. upstate kate December 1st, 2010 at 8:47 am

    I know you have always had nice things to say about her

  250. JEKIKASO December 1st, 2010 at 9:04 am

    I can’t wait for spring training. i go down every year for 3 weeks. try and take in as many games as i can while i am there. hope to get a decent look @ montero this year. only saw him once in a practice last year. never in a game

  251. West Coast Yankee Fan December 1st, 2010 at 11:14 am

    Betsy I do post the link unless it’s a short piece in it’s entirety. Or, if it’s an AP article that is on 50 different media sites.

  252. West Coast Yankee Fan December 1st, 2010 at 11:20 am

    SJ44 December 1st, 2010 at 8:28 am

    What did Hank say that was so wrong? No contract negotiation has ever been derailed for being positive something will get done. He said nothing wrong.

    *************

    It’s no that he said anything wrong but that he opened his mouth at all. It had appeared that Hall was the de-facto owner’s voice and Hank was not involved publicly, no one has seen him much for quite some time now. But all of a sudden he is out there yapping away. Suffice it to say, sometimes, he is not very skilled when he does so.

    The problem is Yankee management has presented a gang mentality in the Jeter negotiations. Hank Steinbrenner, Hal Steinbrenner, Randy Levine and Brian Cashman all have had to chip in with their two-cents on this.

  253. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    BJK: “Wow, some of these arguments are mind-boggling. I can’t believe some people are comparing Jeter’s negotiations to AJ Burnett and Kei Igawa. In case you haven’t noticed, starting pitching is a premium paid position. Starting pitchers tend to get paid more than position players because it’s so hard to find good ones.”

    Uhh, yeah. In case you haven’t noticed, Jeter himself in his last contract was paid more than any pitcher the Yankees have ever had except for Sabathia. And just to Jeter’s right on the infield is another example of an infielder being paid more than starting pitchers.

    What’s mind boggling is your failure to understand that Jeter is not Troy Tulowitzki or any other shortstop. They don’t play for the yankees, and haven’t meant to the yankees franchise what Jeter has meant. From Jeter’s perspective, that is worth a lot more than what A.J. Burnett has meant to the franchise, so it is pertinent to Jeter’s camp in the negotiation what the team has paid to Burnett. They play for the same team.

  254. Dill Pickler December 1st, 2010 at 6:34 pm

    What’s also mind-boggling is just how wrong you are. Of the top 15 contracts ever paid out in the sport, only THREE (3!) belong to pitchers. Sabathia’s, tied with Mauer’s for fourth at 23.0 million (Mauer got 8 years, Sabathia 7), Santana, 6th highest annual value at 22.9 million (6 years), and Zito, tied for 11th highest at 18.0 million (7 years).

    ARod (twice, 27.5 and 25.2 million) and Ryan Howard (25 million) both have been paid more than any pitcher in annual value, and Mauer in total value. 7th on the list is Teixeira at 22.5, 8th is Manny Ramirez at 20.0, 9th is Miguel Cabrera at 19.0 and 10th is Jeter at 18.9.

    That’s two pitchers in the top 10. And all you had to do to disprove your argument was look at the YANKEE infield and find 3 infielders in the top 10!

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