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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Non-tender deadline looming

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 02, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

ALCS Yankees Rangers BaseballThe Yankees have until midnight to decide whether to tender contracts to players under team control for 2011.
With Sergio Mitre re-signed, Dustin Moseley is the most obvious non-tender candidate remaining.

My guess is he’ll be back.

As a general rule, non-tender decisions come down to money and roster space.

Last year, the Yankees non-tendered Chien-Ming Wang. That was clearly a money decision. Wang was heading for arbitration, with no guarantee that he was going to pitch, much less pitch effectively. The Yankees didn’t want to commit to the money, so they couldn’t commit to the player.

In 2008, the Yankees non-tendered Chris Britton and Justin Christian. Both were in line to make the minimum, and Christian definitely had options remaining. Maybe Britton, too. The Yankees 40-man, though, was packed and the team needed to open some space.

There is no roster crunch this year. Even after Rule 5 protection, there are seven open roster spots. That’s enough for Derek Jeter, Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettitte, Cliff Lee, a left-handed reliever and a couple of role players. If the Yankees decided they need another spot, they could easily take a chance on slipping Reegie Corona through waivers.

The only issue is money, and Moseley is in his first year of arbitration eligibility, so he shouldn’t cost much. Given the health problems of Alfredo Aceves, it makes sense to keep Moseley as a low-cost option in spring training. I’d argue that Moseley is just as likely to make next year’s bullpen as Mitre. Clearly the Yankees liked Moseley last winter, and he’s only improved his stock since then.

The Yankees other arbitration-eligible players are Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and Boone Logan. All three are likely to cost significant money, but they’re also expected to play significant roles next season. Hard to imagine any of them being non-tendered.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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159 Responses to “Non-tender deadline looming”

  1. Carl December 2nd, 2010 at 9:06 am

    I like him better than Mitre to be honest.

  2. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 9:08 am

    Keep him.

  3. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 9:08 am

    BloggingBombers For those wondering why the Yankees would commit nearly a million dollars to Mitre, remember – that’s like you spending $5 on something.

    :lol:

  4. blake December 2nd, 2010 at 9:10 am

    Id bring Mosely back also…..pitching depth is important.

  5. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 9:12 am

    D-Mose has a special purpose.

    He knows even more fishin’ holes in Arkansas than AJ. ;)

  6. yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:17 am

    yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:13 am
    MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 8:55 am
    61-

    Remember the “palmball”.

    Woo hoo. We’re goin’ back in time

    ——————————————

    Indeed! My college freshman coach taught me to use it as my changeup. Here ya go:

    Notable pitchers who have been known to throw the palmball include Steve Farr, Edwar Ramirez, Dave Giusti, Bob Stanley, Orlando Hernández, reliever Tony Fiore, Bryn Smith, “changeup” pitcher Trevor Hoffman[1], Kenneth Brown and 1990s reliever Joe Boever. Philadelphia Phillies and former Toronto Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay was known to have thrown a palmball early in his career, though he rarely uses it today.

    In earlier decades, the palmball was thrown by Ewell Blackwell, NL MVP winner Jim Konstanty, Cy Young Award winner Jim Palmer, and Satchel Paige. In 1968, Red Sox starter Ray Culp turned his career around by developing a palmball. Culp went 16-6 in 1968 and topped the Red Sox in wins from 1968-70

  7. 86w183 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:21 am

    Easy decisions to keep Mosely and Mitre on hand with the stats of Pettite and Lee uncertain and Aceves hurt again.

    At the very least they can be additional arms in a trade pkg. At most they can be No. 5 contenders and long men in the pen.

    That said, it’s time to get something meaningful done. Once you get past Thanksgiving and on the verge of the Winter Meetings you have to start finalizing some things.

  8. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 9:23 am

    “Schilling played with Cal Ripken Jr. in Baltimore, Luis Gonzalez in Arizona, Scott Rolen and Dale Murphy in Philadelphia and Jeff Bagwell in Houston. They have something in common: an amazing work ethic.

    Ramirez might trump them all.

    “He is up–on the road–at 10 in the morning, going to the weight room and working out,” Schilling said. “He’ll come over to the ballpark and hit early, work early. Go have lunch and come back. He does things that no one else does. But that’s what all the great players I have ever played with do.”

  9. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 9:24 am

    “One of the reasons Thome, regarded as one of Major League Baseball’s classiest citizens, feels so strongly about Ramirez is that he witnessed the time Ramirez put in to develop as a premier hitter with the Indians was the same he did last year with the Dodgers.

    “Manny always has had a tremendous work ethic,” said Thome, who’s now with the Twins. “That never changed during the brief time I saw him in Los Angeles. People never saw the extra work he would put in. It was pretty impressive.”

  10. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 9:25 am

    61-

    I responded in the previous thread.

    “Non-tender” deadline.

    It that like the time by which you have to have something fully marinated or you’re just dead meat. ;)

  11. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 9:26 am

    “Ramirez might well loaf from time to time, but overall his work ethic is pretty legendary. I’m not saying that to whitewash the mistakes he has made. But there is no shortage of stories about the effort he has put into the game.”

  12. Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 9:27 am

    LGY:

    This is Manny Ramirez that Schilling refers to, right? I’ve always heard much the same. Incredible work ethic. However, I’ve also read where that work ethic is not necessarily applied to all facets of his game. Always stayed in great shape and worked tirelessly on his hitting, but never worked all that hard on his defense, baserunning, etc.

  13. yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:28 am

    LGY – That’s one of the reasons why I said this earlier on the last thread -

    RE: Manny. Obviously, it’s not going to happen, but it’s a shame there’s no room for characters like that on the Yanks (Oh, that’s right, they do have Swish!) When the Yanks were mediocre in the early 70’s, I extended my rooting to the West Coast and followed the A’s. Enjoyed the heck out of that crew. I mean how many teams today field a cast of characters like Reggie, Catfish, Fingers, Bando, Rudi, Tenace and Vida Blue?

    By the way, if Posada was not DH’ing, I’d be perfectly fine with Mr Ramirez at the right price and for one year. I think he’d be a real force in that lineup. Again, just dreaming

  14. hardwired7 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Moseley gave up 13 HRs in 65.1 innings last season. He also had nearly as many walks (27) as strikeouts (33).

    Those are 65.1 innings I’d rather see one of the young B’s pitch.

  15. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 9:29 am

    “Seattle’s Raul Ibanez talked about working out with Manny Ramirez last off-season in Davie, Florida.

    In between sets, everything is timed, and he would always be reminding [me] to keep working. He works his tail off. I knew he was hard-working, but he exceeded my expectations. … We would start at 10 and he was coming at 9 to do his workouts. He was working out an hour more. … He influenced everybody to come in and work out earlier.”

  16. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 9:31 am

    Mell,

    Yeah. I’m posting it because of the stupid posts last night about Manny being lazy.

  17. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 9:32 am

    Sergio Mitre had better send Alfredo Aceves a very nice Christmas gift this year. The only reason that I can fathom that the Yankees are bringing Mitre back is because of the Aceves injury situation.

  18. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 9:32 am

    I’d rather have every fingernail pulled from my hands with pliers, one at a time, than to ever see someting like Ramirez in PS.

    Fortunately, it will never happen.

  19. blake December 2nd, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Some people can be very hard working in certain areas and neglect others. Manny loves to hit and works at that, he doesn’t like to catch, throw, run, or have haircuts and he neglects those areas. LGY loves to trash Derek Jeter and works hard at that……to each their own. :)

  20. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 9:33 am

    “Ramirez might well loaf from time to time, but overall his work ethic is pretty legendary. I’m not saying that to whitewash the mistakes he has made. But there is no shortage of stories about the effort he has put into the game.”

    **********************************************
    Agreed, and yet there are some folks on this blog, who profess to have baseball knowledge, said that Manny is fat and lazy. I think I’ll take the word of Thome and Schilling over an ignorant blogger.

  21. Carl December 2nd, 2010 at 9:34 am

    # hardwired7 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:29 am

    Moseley gave up 13 HRs in 65.1 innings last season. He also had nearly as many walks (27) as strikeouts (33).

    Those are 65.1 innings I’d rather see one of the young B’s pitch.

    Noesi, Phelps, and D.J Mitchell should be up before Brackman, Betances, Banuelos. Brackman maybe if they move him to the pen full time.

  22. Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 9:34 am

    “Yeah. I’m posting it because of the stupid posts last night about Manny being lazy”

    He did loaf at times, and didn’t mind selling out his teammates to make a point. Like the at bat against Mo where he never took the bats off his shoulders and watched three pitches right down Broadway because he was pissed that he was asked to PH on his day off.

  23. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 9:35 am

    MTU-that pretty much sums up my feelings about Manny too. LOL

  24. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 9:35 am

    Good morning all,

    I see that Jerkface really earned his name last night.

    Let me understand this. If we don’t offer Mosely a contract, he goes on the open market???

    I thought he did a pretty good job for the team given the type of opportunities he had.

  25. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 9:36 am

    LGY
    just curious- when exactly did Schilling say that about Manny? IIRC, Schilling has had a lot to say about Manny since his problems w/ the sox and I don’t recall any of it being nice.

  26. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 9:36 am

    MTU -

    While Manny was with the Sux, they placed him on waivers, and he stated openly he wanted to play for the Yankees. He’s from the Bronx, was in his prime at the time, and the Yankees past on him. So, given that history, I see no need to worry.

  27. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 9:39 am

    Blake
    did you ever hear about letting sleeping dogs lie? LGY has not said one thing about Jeter today, and some of us would like to keep it that way :)

  28. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 9:40 am

    Al-

    Hallelujah ! :)

  29. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Big Al,

    Manny doesn’t seem to fit the Yankees except as a bench player, and talk about expensive…and for what?

    I always hated him…of course, he played for the Sox and that didn’t help my personal feelings for the man.

  30. Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 9:42 am

    “While Manny was with the Sux, they placed him on waivers, and he stated openly he wanted to play for the Yankees. He’s from the Bronx, was in his prime at the time, and the Yankees past on him”

    They passed on his $20M salary more than anything else. That was actually the point the Red Sox were trying to make when they put him on waivers. He often asked to be traded. Red Sox were telling him, “not only is nobody willing to trade something of value for you and your $20M per season salary, they aren’t willing to take on you and your salary in exhange for nothing at all”

  31. blake December 2nd, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Kate,

    You’re right….I just had an opening there and in poor judgement opted to take the shot :)

  32. yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:45 am

    MTU – Got your reply. Sorry, I’ve had to pop in and out and soon I’ll be popping out again.

    BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 9:16 am
    MTU -

    Palming the ball, as in basketball?

    yanks61 -
    Steady Eddie Lopat was one of my favorites. Became friends with him, well after he retired, and was a scout for Montreal. He lived in Hillsdale, NJ, where I had a business.

    Al, do remember Lopat’s slow, slower and slowest? He gave up a lot of hits but kept the runs down. Drove hitters “batty.” I guess Stu Miller was also one of the alltime berst at ‘slowballing.”

  33. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 9:45 am

    MTU,

    Good morning. ‘ My men’ are encouraging me not to rush to the hospital because there will be lots of waiting time. I have always been good with that stuff, but they are worried about my walking which I will have to do anyway and the physically uncomfortable stuff. So for once in my life I am listening.

  34. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 9:48 am

    I don’t get where the Manny talk came from?

    As of now, Jorge Posada is the team’s DH; what role would Manny serve?

    If the Yankees make a megadeal and trade Montero (or Gardner) and open a spot at either DH or LF then I suppose Manny could be an option – but even in that case I think the Yankees would sooner go after a younger player – like Adam Dunn at DH or Carl Crawford in LF than Manny.

    No one should accuse Manny of being lazy since none of us actually get to see him work on a regular basis; what we can accuse Manny of is at times appearing indifferent and moody. What he did towards the end in Boston was completely unprofessional, but to be honest I blame the Boston management as much as anything for indulging him for all those years. Allowing him to leave early and return late from the All-Star break; not disciplining him for his Manny-B-Manny antics – if you let your child run around hitting people and don’t say anything then you can’t get upset when he hits you.

  35. hardwired7 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Brackman (from the ‘pen) was what I was thinking, Carl.

  36. 86w183 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Manny was a truly amazing hitter. Arguably the best all-around hitter of this generation. Often wondered about him in pinstripes but all things considered I’m glad it never happened.

    I know it’s highly unlikely…. but can you imagine Adam Dunn in the Yankee lineup. I know Posada is slated to be the DH, but that big donkey might hit 30-40 HR in 81 home games.

  37. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 9:49 am

    SAS-

    You follow your own counsel. That’s good.

    Results tomorrow ?

  38. 108 stitches December 2nd, 2010 at 9:50 am

    C Dioner Navarro of the Rays will be non-tendered. (Possibly) the Yankees could sign him to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training. Maybe he can push Cervelli.
    The Rays have John Jaso, Kelly Shoppach, and Jose Lobaton. Navarro fell out of favor with the Rays after not being added to the postseason roster and decided to go home.

    http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/t....._id=425900

    Just a thought for the catching situation ……….

  39. yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:50 am

    “This is fun when you get posts from folks like yanks61, people that know the game, and bring something to the table, so to speak, unlike me”

    Big Al, that’s very kind of you but I don’t belong in the same conversation with you guys!

    I mostly lurk, trying to educate myself, keep up with the times and be entertained. A lot of folks have some interesting points to make.

  40. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Mell -

    Well stated, that’s exactly what the Sux were saying to Manny. But, love him or hate him, one still had to respect what he could do with a bat in his hand.

  41. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 9:52 am

    yanks61 -

    And you sir are one of those folks. Look forward to more of your posts.

  42. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 9:55 am

    SAS -

    Good morning. We are all praying the results are good for your son. Waiting is always the most difficult thing to do.

  43. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 9:56 am

    The may be a stupid comment, but I think the Yanks have other business to attend to for their regular roster like a SS, and a certain pitcher they have interest in.

    Since money is a object this whole Manny talk is stupid unless he would settle for a couple of million just to say he played for the Yankees.

  44. 86w183 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:57 am

    Chip —

    I’m good for a blockbuster —

    Montero, Joba, Nova and Gardner for King Felix?

    Joba, Noesi and Gardner for Fausto Carmona?

    Just playin’

  45. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 9:58 am

    all the best to your son today SAS

    I have no doubt that Manny could still be a valuable hitter, but I wouldn’t want to see him in pinstripes…its all about the intangibles!

  46. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 9:59 am

    MTU,

    Results in up to 2 weeks. There is much testing on the results that has to be done. My son should be OK other than the wound, unless there are further problems which is what today is all about.

  47. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Thanks Kate. I am trying to think positively.

  48. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 10:01 am

    “Gravitas” is definitely what some of you have.

    Me. That’s another matter entirely.

    I’ve seen Helium baloons and feathers that carry more weight.

    Hey. At least I’m not the Hindenburg.

    Even though I still like Led Zeppellin’s and Iron Butterflies.

    :)

  49. yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 10:01 am

    Ah, Manny. The good, the bad and the ugly. Can’t help myself, I’ve always had a soft spot for flakes – especially productive ones.

    I’m sure many of you have read Satchel Paige’s “May be I’ll Pitch Forever.” “Ole Satch” did some pretty weird things, too, but he was probably one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived (of course he pulled his shenanigans in the Negro Leagues.) Or stories about the Cardinal’s Gashouse Gang of the thirties or Babe Hermann and the Daffiness Boys of Wilbert Robinson. They just don’t make many colorful players like that anymore. Kind of a shame, if you ask me.

  50. JEKIKASO December 2nd, 2010 at 10:02 am

    SAS, Best wishes for your son. And my prayer go out to your whole family. Here’s hoping everything works out

  51. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 10:04 am

    61-

    You need to team up with the Great White Snark.

    You could sit around the campfire and tell baseball tales to amuse each other.

    SAS-

    Keep me posted, or should I say informed. ;)

  52. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Well Al – I trust my eyes more than anything. I’ve sat in Chavez Ravine and seen Manny loafing after balls and not running had to first on more than one occassion.

    This post from Scott iLA n after the Chicago deal, says it all:

    “I think his last at bat in a Dodger uniform pretty much sum’s up his career with the Dodgers. If fact his last slide in at a home plate did also. Now Manny can be lazy Manny and not have to play but just be a DH. I hope the door hits him on the way out! Good Bye!”

  53. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 10:07 am

    yanks61 -

    The closest we come today is Swish.

    But, Sparky Lyle was what you could call a real character as well, and lets not over look Billy Martin.

  54. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 10:08 am

    JEKIKSO,

    Thanks so much

    ================================

    People on here have been wonderful, and it is much appreciated

    ===========================================

    MTU,

    You know I will.

  55. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 10:09 am

    SAS-I hope everything goes well for your son today.

  56. JEKIKASO December 2nd, 2010 at 10:10 am

    Billy Martin and Mickey Mantle. i met them once when i was 6 years old, @ my uncle’s restaraunt in binghamtom area. been a Yankee Fan ever since!!

  57. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 10:12 am

    JKaso-

    That would do it for most people ! ;)

  58. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 10:12 am

    WCYF -

    Not going to debate Manny, one, I’m not a fan of his, and second, I put more weight and value in the opinion of players I have respect for, in their evaluation, than those of a fan.

    Again, I’m not a Manny fan, but, I still believe he’s one of the best “hitters” of our generation, not ball player, just hitter.

  59. Betsy December 2nd, 2010 at 10:15 am

    I like Moseley – he’s no great, but he did a good job while Andy was out and he came up huge in game 1 of the ALCS.

  60. yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 10:15 am

    “Well Al – I trust my eyes more than anything. I’ve sat in Chavez Ravine and seen Manny loafing after balls”

    Then again WCYF, at least he never got hit on the head by a fly ball like Babe Hermann once did. Nor did they shut all the gates at Ebbets whenever he got a hold of the ball so as to be sure that the ball stayed in the park. Oh, had you heard about the time that Babe doubled into a double play? Anyone like to hear that story?

    One of the thirties great power hitters, but man, oh, man – this from Wikipedia:

    “He was also renowned for his varied misadventures as a defensive player and baserunner, which earned him derision – and eventually affection – among fans… He wore a glove for one reason: because it was a league custom.” Herman developed a self-deprecating attitude about his shortcomings; when informed by a local bank that someone had been impersonating him and cashing bad checks, he said, “Hit him a few flyballs. If he catches any, it ain’t me.”

    Teddy Ballgame was really only interested in hitting as well, though he did what he had to in order to be decent in LF. They created the DH for Manny :)

  61. JEKIKASO December 2nd, 2010 at 10:16 am

    sure did for me.Billy bought me my first beer…. a root beer. said if i drank beer he’d paddle my butt,lol. I did stay away from it for a while though. ;-0

  62. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Thanks Erin….I am imagine things will be OK today. It is the biopsies of lymph nodes, etc. that will be the answer, and we don’t get those for a while…………..sigh

    =====================================

    JEKIKASO

    I met Mickey, Gil MacDougald and a third Yankee who I can’t remember off hand when I was about 12. It was a thrill.

  63. Betsy December 2nd, 2010 at 10:17 am

    Manny? A giant no-thank you. He’s not coming here anyway, so it’s all moot.

  64. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 10:17 am

    How much of a troll do you have to be to sit behind a computer screen and call a professional athlete who’s great work ethic is well known and acknowledged by some of the most respected players in the game like Thome fat and lazy???

    I think its time for a visit to the eye doctor.

  65. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 10:17 am

    61-

    :)

    Thanks for putting things in perspective.

  66. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Al – I never said he wasn’t a great hitter. But how many pf those stats were juiced by steroid use? His work ethic in the batting cage was never the question. But he is now a lazy player that runs and hustles when he wants to. Fans have eyes. Talk to fans in LA.

  67. JEKIKASO December 2nd, 2010 at 10:20 am

    Agreed i was a big football fan as a young kid. after meeting them a few times that fall and winter i switched to baseball tho i still like football too. played both in h.s and college till i blew my knee out second time.

  68. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 10:20 am

    I thought I was.

  69. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:20 am

    LGY you don’t know what you are talking about. Manny’s work ethic is meaningless if you don’t hustle after balls and run hits out unless you want to. I have seen him stand there and watch a ball go over his head without moving and “jog” after it.

  70. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 10:21 am

    Very funny Blake and Kate :mad:

  71. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 10:23 am

    I can’t wait to be lectured now about how some hack journalist in LA is so well respected and great like Wally World Matthews

  72. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 10:25 am

    WCYF -

    Let’s not get into all this steroid business. In the game, before steroids, the team would put out a large bowl of “Greenies” for the players to take, so they could play a day game after a night game, or coming off the road and being tired. The players took the uppers, than after the game drank to get back down, causing quite a few to develop drinking problems. Baseball has had numerous issues with drugs of all types in the past, and not only looked the other way, they condoned it.

  73. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Matthews? Who mentioned him? He has zero to do with a Manny discussion. Who is the troll? You. Constantly seeking to start an argument when there is none by creating straw men.

  74. David in Cal December 2nd, 2010 at 10:26 am

    My cousin was Manny’s teacher in high school. At one point, she spoke to him privately. She pointed out that he wasn’t doing the work. He wasn’t learning what he needed to. She asked how he expected to make a living. He replied that he was going to make a living playing baseball.

    Of course, Manny turned out to be right. However, this incident iillustrates Manny’s habit of working on only what he chooses to.

  75. 108 stitches December 2nd, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Manny Ramirez is NOT a fit as a Yankee. Not even if he signed for the league minimum salary.

  76. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:27 am

    AL all true about greenies. But there is a difference in taking a pill to make you more alert and awake – and taking a drug that enables you to hit ten more warning track fly balls a year into the bleachers.

  77. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 10:28 am

    Ramirez as a hitter = A+

    “Manny being Manny” = F-

  78. Patrick December 2nd, 2010 at 10:28 am

    “I see that Jerkface really earned his name last night.”

    Well to be fair, he was right on all counts.

    “I don’t get where the Manny talk came from?”

    WCYF posted something about Manny being done which is clearly wrong so a big argument erupted. Then the trolls changed the argument from “Manny is still really good, and hypothetically would be a good DH for the Yankees” into “We want Manny on the Yankees!”

    If Posada wasn’t on the team or could catch a full season I would want Manny but neither case is true thus I don’t really want him.

  79. Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 10:28 am

    LGY:

    Fat and lazy are definitely the wrong “attributes” to be applying to Ramirez. However, his hard work aside, he was unquestionably a diva who had no problem tanking when things weren’t going his way. As he’s no longer the force he once was with the bat, he’s really no longer worth the trouble of having him on your team.

  80. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:28 am

    David. Thank you for the common sense.

  81. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Mannys work ethic is meaningless only to the countless well respected players who have spoken about it.

  82. BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Catch you later folks.

  83. Tom in N.J. December 2nd, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Who are we yelling at each other about today?

  84. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:33 am

    Well Patrick. That’s an opinion isn’t it? Manny’s SLG and OPS last year were the lowest of his career since he was 21 years old. Combine that with his hustling “when he wants to” – that’s being done to my way of thinking.

  85. yanks61 December 2nd, 2010 at 10:34 am

    MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 10:04 am
    61-

    You need to team up with the Great White Snark

    —————————————–

    MTU, I’m in 1st grade compared to Prof. GB. He’s got a doctorate BB history

    BIG AL December 2nd, 2010 at 10:07 am
    yanks61 -

    The closest we come today is Swish.

    But, Sparky Lyle was what you could call a real character as well, and lets not over look Billy Martin.

    ————————————————————-

    Absoultely Al! Have you read “The Bronx Zoo?” Met Sparky when he gave a talk many years ago. Just as funny as we’ve been led to believe! I saw Billy play any number of times. He got booed when he returned to the Stadium for the first time with KC (you remember – the Yankees farm team!) I hated that. He wore his Yankee heart on his sleeve. Weiss wanted him gone because of the Copacabana incident and his bad influence on Mick. As though Mick needed any help with his adventures! When Sal Maglie came over to the Yanks briefly in 57, Billy, Whitey and Mick even recruited “The Barber” into their rat pack. What the public didn’t know in those days!

  86. Patrick December 2nd, 2010 at 10:36 am

    WCYF,

    Not an opinion at all. His numbers were still great compared to other DH’s in the league. To say he’s done is laughable and an obvious troll.

  87. Giuseppe Franco December 2nd, 2010 at 10:37 am

    I’d rather sign Sergio Mitre to a 10-year contract than sign Manny Ramirez for 2011.

    No matter, though because it’s never going to happen.

  88. pat December 2nd, 2010 at 10:41 am

    I asked a simple question and 12 hours later a Manny debate continues.

  89. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Didn’t Weiss even coerce Scooter into bad mouthing Mick?

  90. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 10:43 am

    86w183 December 2nd, 2010 at 9:57 am
    Chip —

    I’m good for a blockbuster —

    Montero, Joba, Nova and Gardner for King Felix?

    Joba, Noesi and Gardner for Fausto Carmona?

    Just playin’
    —————————

    I would do that second trade in a heartbeat. Still sign Cliff Lee – let Andy retire and bring in Crawford for LF – of if you wanted to go a less expensive route – Scotty Podsednik

  91. MTU December 2nd, 2010 at 10:43 am

    Pat-

    That will teach you to ask simple questions.

    :)

  92. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Patrick – right trolls who don’t agree with you. If Manny is so good, why aren’t teams knocking down the door to sign him? He’s done in my opinion. I don’t want him.

  93. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 10:46 am

    pat-so you’re the one to blame ;)

  94. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 10:28 am
    LGY:

    Fat and lazy are definitely the wrong “attributes” to be applying to Ramirez. However, his hard work aside, he was unquestionably a diva who had no problem tanking when things weren’t going his way. As he’s no longer the force he once was with the bat, he’s really no longer worth the trouble of having him on your team.

    —————————-

    For what it’s worth Mell – I blame part of “Manny-being-Manny” on the Red Sox organization for not stopping it sooner.

    Just by way of contemporary comparison – LeBron James is chaffing in Miami because his coach and GM won’t allow him to get away with the same stuff he got away with in Cleveland. They aren’t making the same allowances for him and he’s whining. But, he’s also following the rules and falling in line. The Red Sox could have done that with Manny from jump but instead they indulged him and allowed him to take days off and set his own terms with the team. That it finally bit them in the bum shouldn’t be a shock, nor is it entirely Manny’s fault…if you give a guy that much rope eventually he will hang himself with it.

  95. Patrick December 2nd, 2010 at 10:47 am

    Chip,

    Scot Posednik suuuuuuuuuucckkkkssss

  96. Patrick December 2nd, 2010 at 10:49 am

    Patrick – right trolls who don’t agree with you. If Manny is so good, why aren’t teams knocking down the door to sign him? He’s done in my opinion. I don’t want him.

    Well I don’t want him either but he’s not done.

    A troll is a person that says something in an attempt to get a negative reaction out of people. That’s why Jerkface said GB7 and randy are trolls at time, which is true, they do post things to get a reaction out of sabermetric guys like Rich. And that’s NOT an insult, trolling is funny if done right.

  97. pat December 2nd, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Erin

    MLB Network started it by saying they could see Manny being a Yankee this year but I brought the premise here.

    I apologize. :sad:

  98. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 10:53 am

    For or Against:

    Yankees trade:
    Noesi, Joba, Gardner to Cleveland for Fausto Carmona

    Yankees sign:
    Scott Podsednik and (if non-tendered as expected) Bobby Jenks

    Yankees also sign: Lee, Jeter, Mo, Andruw Jones, Reed Johnson, Randy Choate

    25 man roster:

    Jeter – SS
    Pods – LF
    Tex – 1b
    Alex – 3b
    Cano – 2b
    Swisher – RF
    Posada – DH
    Granderson – CF
    Montero – C

    Bench: Cervelli, Nunez, Jones, Johnson

    Rotation:
    CC, Lee, Hughes, Carmona, AJ

    Pen:
    RHP: Jenks, Mo, Robertson, Nova, Moseley/Mitre
    LHP: Logan, Choate

  99. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Tom
    it appears that Manny is the topic de jour and Pat was the instigator

  100. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 10:55 am

    Patrick December 2nd, 2010 at 10:47 am
    Chip,

    Scot Posednik suuuuuuuuuucckkkkssss

    ————————-

    Granted I would rather have Carl Crawford but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that about Scotty P.

    The guy gets on base (.340 clip) has a little bit of pop, plays a good OF and still has tremendous wheels.

  101. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 10:57 am

    Patrick – I have always believed this about Manny. For years. I think he is a cancer on a team, he gets into fistfights in the dugout, he doesn’t hustle, he laughs at authority, he considers it beneath him to stretch with teammates, he was a major juicer. Great hitter? Yes. Natural ability? Through the roof. But, he is done in my eyes. He is overweight and he is lazy. Manny was God when he came to LA. At the end, fans were intensely calling for him to be gone. No one likes seeing a player stand there and watch a ball go over his head and jog slowly after it. Or after hitting a ground ball to third not even take a step towards first – just throw the bat away and turn towards the dugout.

    Manny on the Yankees? Please.

  102. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:01 am

    WCYF -

    I wouldn’t go so far as to call Manny a “cancer.” To me a cancer is a guy who brings a team down – Manny on the other hand has always been a winner. He was the man for Boston’s championship teams and their playoff teams and when he got to the Dodgers they were a middling team that he carried into the playoffs.

    I’m not advocating for Manny on the Yankees, but I think it’s important to give credit where credit is due.

  103. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Chip – Why did they run him out of Boston?

  104. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 11:03 am

    Manny is the one good cancer.

    Wherever he goes the team gets infected with winning.

  105. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:03 am

    I did give him credit.

    “Great hitter? Yes. Natural ability? Through the roof”.

  106. pat December 2nd, 2010 at 11:05 am

    ” he gets into fistfights in the dugout”

    Hitting Youkilis is never a bad thing. He’s annoying. :wink:

  107. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:05 am

    LOL This blog is surreal at times and reminiscent of a Fellini movie. Yankee fans blasting Derek Jeter and adoring Manny Ramirez. Who knew!

  108. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Well Pat. I must admit you are right about that.

  109. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 11:08 am

    hey, I would smack Youk too, and I am a peaceful person

  110. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 11:08 am

    As tired as I am of the Jeter saga, I’d much rather talk about that again than Manny Ramirez. :)

  111. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 11:09 am

    pat December 2nd, 2010 at 11:05 am
    ? he gets into fistfights in the dugout?

    Hitting Youkilis is never a bad thing. He?s annoying

    *******************************

    :lol:

  112. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 11:09 am

    of course Porcello taking Youk out was even more entertaining

  113. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 11:10 am

    This blog just doesn’t like false info to be spread by trolls no matter who the player is :mad:

  114. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Erin
    not me…and I am thrilled w/ the restraint LGY has shown today :)

  115. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:12 am

    LGY – methinks thou protesteth too much.

  116. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 11:12 am

    What do you all think about Crawford and Werth? I think Crawford will end up with the Angels, Werth in Boston.

  117. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:14 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:03 am
    Chip – Why did they run him out of Boston?

    ———————————–

    It took them nearly a decade to “run Manny out of Boston”

  118. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:15 am

    SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 11:12 am
    What do you all think about Crawford and Werth? I think Crawford will end up with the Angels, Werth in Boston.

    —————————–

    I say Crawford to the Yankees

    Werth to Texas

    Rangers use Nelson Cruz in part of a package to get Greinke

  119. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 11:16 am

    SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 11:12 am
    What do you all think about Crawford and Werth? I think Crawford will end up with the Angels, Werth in Boston.

    *************************
    SAS, I agree

    Crawford-Angels
    Werth-Red Sox

  120. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 11:17 am

    I haven’t really been paying attention, but is there no chance Werth stays w/ the Phillies?

  121. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Boston in on Crawford in a serious way it appears. From Gordon Edes/ESPN:

    BOSTON — Just days before Monday’s opening of baseball’s winter meetings, the Boston Red Sox have stepped up their pursuit of the two free-agent outfielders at the top of their list, Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth, meeting with both players and their agents, according to sources.

    Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein, accompanied by manager Terry Francona, met earlier this week with Crawford and his agents in Houston. That meeting was initially reported by Yahoo! Sports and confirmed to ESPNBoston.com by league and industry sources.

    On Wednesday Epstein and Francona met at a Chicago airport hotel with Werth and agent Scott Boras, sources told ESPNBoston.com.

  122. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Kate

    :D

  123. Patrick December 2nd, 2010 at 11:20 am

    WCYF,

    You can say Manny is done all you like, the facts don’t support your opinion.

    I do agree to some degree that he’s not a good teammate, etc.

  124. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:21 am

    Interesting that Francona is involved with FA visits. Not so with Cashman and Girardi. I would guess Francona would be going into detail on how he would use them, etc. Good idea I think, he’s well liked.

  125. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:22 am

    And SAS’s post brings me to my revised “Where will they wind up”

    Lee – NYY
    Jeter – NYY
    Mo – NYY
    Andy – retirement
    Crawford – NYY
    Werth – Tex (as noted above, the Rangers will use Nelson Cruz in part of a package to land Greinke)
    Pavano – Nationals
    Dunn – Boston (Youk to 3b)
    Pena – Nationals
    Berkman – Oakland
    Downs – Boston
    Beltre – Angels
    Fuentes – St. Louis
    Olivo – Boston
    Damon – St. Louis
    Manny – Tampa
    Millwood – NY Mets
    Wood – Texas (Neftali Feliz to the rotation)
    Crain – Twins
    Soriano – Angels

  126. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Patrick – we can disagree then. Facts, i.e. stats can often be cherry picked to make a case on either side of a debate. There is more to a player being done or not done. It’s a matter of opinion based on how on how one perceives a player’s ability to contribute. Or not. I think whatever “good” Manny still exists, does not outweigh the “bad” Manny.

  127. pat December 2nd, 2010 at 11:24 am

    WCYF

    Every player has positives and negatives.

    Everyone who points out Derek’s negatives isn’t a basher and everyone who thinks Manny can still play isn’t delusional.

  128. LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 11:26 am

    I really don’t understand going after Crawford unless they can convince him to play CF.

    Tbh I don’t understand going after either after passing on the superior player in Holliday a year earlier.

    Still can’t believe Boy Genius passed on Holliday.

  129. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Pat no question. Not everyone.

  130. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:26 am

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:24 am
    Patrick – we can disagree then. Facts, i.e. stats can often be cherry picked to make a case on either side of a debate. There is more to a player being done or not done. It’s a matter of opinion based on how on how one perceives a player’s ability to contribute. Or not. I think whatever “good” Manny still exists, does not outweigh the “bad” Manny.

    ————————-

    You sound like you’re Luke Skywalker debating Darth Vader, “there’s still good within him I can sense it.”

  131. West Coast Yankee Fan December 2nd, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Derek Jeter Rumors: Thursday
    By Tim Dierkes
    [December 2, 2010 at 8:03am CST]

    Derek Jeter and his agent Casey Close reached out to the Yankees to set up Tuesday’s meeting in Tampa, report Mark Feinsand and Bill Madden of the New York Daily News. Hal Steinbrenner, Randy Levine, and Brian Cashman attended for the Yankees.

    Money and years were not discussed, say Feinsand and Madden. Instead, the meeting concluded with the Yankees’ brass asking Close for ideas on how to bridge the large gap. The tenor of the meeting was cordial, reports Michael S. Schmidt of the New York Times. Close did not get back to them on Wednesday.

    The Yankees were emboldened by Troy Tulowitzki’s new deal, in that it has a $15.7MM average salary and Cashman and company offered Jeter $15MM per year. MLB is pleased that the Yankees have not gone overboard on their Jeter offer, report Feinsand and Madden.

  132. Patrick December 2nd, 2010 at 11:31 am

    WCYF

    Every player has positives and negatives.

    Everyone who points out Derek’s negatives isn’t a basher and everyone who thinks Manny can still play isn’t delusional.

    Thank you. You are absolutely right.

  133. Tom in N.J. December 2nd, 2010 at 11:32 am

    I don’t see Crawford as a Yankee.

  134. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:35 am

    LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 11:26 am
    I really don’t understand going after Crawford unless they can convince him to play CF.

    Tbh I don’t understand going after either after passing on the superior player in Holliday a year earlier.

    Still can’t believe Boy Genius passed on Holliday.

    ——————————-

    He passed on Holliday because he used the money he would have spent on Holliday a year earlier on Tex.

    That was the deal – let me have Tex this Christmas and I won’t ask for a big ticket item next Christmas.

    That’s the same thing I think is going to happen this year with Crawford. He’ll go to Hal after inking Lee, Jeter and Mo and say “if you let me have a Carl Crawford this year I won’t ask you for a big ticket item this year” and Hal will smile a fatherly smile, pat Cash on the head and say, “ok son…go ahead.”

    Oh wait, you were talking about Theo –

    Well in that case he was probably thinking that with an offense of Youk, Ped, Ortiz, Drew, and V-Mart he didn’t need a middle of the order hitter – he needed a better defensive CF so that he could move Ellsbury to LF.

  135. Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 11:35 am

    ‘I don’t see Crawford as a Yankee”

    Chip’s been somethig of a one man gang on the Crawford as a Yankee thing. Bret the Hitman might be with him. I don’t see it at all if Lee signs here. If he doesn’t? Well, that’s a horse of a different color.

  136. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:35 am

    Tom in N.J. December 2nd, 2010 at 11:32 am
    I don’t see Crawford as a Yankee.

    ——————

    Well look harder :-)

  137. upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Chip
    there was still good in Darth Vader…he saved his son and destroyed the emperor

  138. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:41 am

    Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 11:35 am
    ‘I don’t see Crawford as a Yankee”

    Chip’s been somethig of a one man gang on the Crawford as a Yankee thing. Bret the Hitman might be with him. I don’t see it at all if Lee signs here. If he doesn’t? Well, that’s a horse of a different color.

    ——————

    I don’t exactly see it – but this is the time of year where Miracles are celebrated – why not hope for one more while we’re at it.

    Besides, the last few years Cashman has made it kind of a tradition to give us something under the tree that we weren’t really expecting.

  139. Tom in N.J. December 2nd, 2010 at 11:42 am

    What does the 2012 payroll look like with Jeter’s and, god willing, Lee’s contract on the books? As well as Swisher’s option, Hughes’ 2nd Arb year, ect, ect..

  140. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:43 am

    upstate kate December 2nd, 2010 at 11:37 am
    Chip
    there was still good in Darth Vader…he saved his son and destroyed the emperor

    ————————–

    So in September, bases loaded at the Stadium; Yankees trailing the Sox by 2 with the division on the line Man-Ram Vader steps up and shoots one deep to right; it is high, it is far, it is gone…You sir are the MANNY

  141. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Tom,

    Probably not terribly dis-similar to this year’s payroll

  142. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Hey Ryan Church just got non-tendered – Yankees should absolutely look into him…

    I kid, I kid…

  143. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 11:46 am

    Chip,

    You certainly have given a lot of thought to many free agents. Interesting.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Tom,

    For years I thought of Crawford as a Yankee, but now our outfield isn’t as much of an issue. I don’t see the Yankees spending that kind of money on Crawford assuming SS and premier pitcher signing. Trying to omit names there.

  144. Chip December 2nd, 2010 at 11:50 am

    SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 11:46 am
    Chip,

    You certainly have given a lot of thought to many free agents. Interesting.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Tom,

    For years I thought of Crawford as a Yankee, but now our outfield isn’t as much of an issue. I don’t see the Yankees spending that kind of money on Crawford assuming SS and premier pitcher signing. Trying to omit names there.

    ——————————

    SAS

    My thing with Crawford is this:

    Players like him just don’t become Free Agents that often anymore that when they do, you almost are compelled to pick them up.

    We’re talking about a star in the very infancy of his prime. A tremendous defensive player, disruptive baserunner and he is now starting to add power to his arsenal (which would only increase at Yankee Stadium)

    I know that the Yankees got a strong campaign out of Brett Gardner, but we’re all adults here, we know that there’s virtually no chance that Brett Gardner will ever be thought of in the same lines as Crawford – not to say he’s not a nice player – he is – he’s a Brett Butler type of guy and those are useful…But Crawford is special.

    And then you can turn around and move Gardner in a package for some more pitching or some minor leaguers.

  145. SAS December 2nd, 2010 at 11:57 am

    Chip,

    I happen to be a Gardner fan and think the money for Crawford isn’t budgeted anyway could be better spent if in fact the Yankees to spend another umpteen million a year.

  146. Nick in SF December 2nd, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    What nobody seems to remember is that after the Sox passed Manny through waivers, he sent them a picture of a dead deer.

    Nobody knew why, but this kind of thing has been in the game for a long time.

  147. mick December 2nd, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Moseley is a no-brainer

  148. mick December 2nd, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    How much dough would Manny command? Anybody?

  149. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Nick- :lol:

  150. Tom in N.J. December 2nd, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    “How much dough would Manny command? Anybody?”

    7-10 million one year deal?

  151. mick December 2nd, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Would he take 5m?

  152. mick December 2nd, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Would he platoon w/ Jorge at DH?
    He’s trouble, do we really need him?

  153. Nick in SF December 2nd, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    He would platoon better with Barry Bonds. :mad:

  154. mick December 2nd, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    Is Barry available?

  155. mick December 2nd, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    short porch and all…

  156. mick December 2nd, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    …wouldn’t need the roids

  157. Mell December 2nd, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    Giants re-up with Burrell?

    Shortstop aside, those guys seem hellbent on keeping the band together

  158. DaSaint007 December 2nd, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    SAS, as a new father, I can only imagine your concern.
    My prayers are with you and your family, and I’m sure all will be well with your son.

  159. Erin December 2nd, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    New Post: All of the alternatives

    :arrow:


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