The kinder, gentler negotiations
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 02, 2010 
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Given all of last week’s public bickering, this week has been a surprising move forward for the Yankees and Derek Jeter.
It started with a face-to-face meeting that seemed to clear the air, and today both sides seemed willing to give a little. The Yankees are willing to offer a little more. Jeter is willing to ask for a little less.
It’s a negotiation between two sides that like one another and need one another. Expectation was that the conversations would eventually reach this point, but it didn’t seem likely to come any time soon.
Then the two sides got the same room, the market value for a shortstop was reestablished, and suddenly progress was being made. There’s no indication that Jeter and the Yankees are on the verge of an agreement, but the gap seems to be closing. That’s as much as either side could have hoped for this week.
Associated Press photo
List of tendered and non-tendered players and those that there has been no decision made yet.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/nontenders2011
I think Crawford could hit 20 as a Yankee but what he does in one year doesn’t really matter. What he would do over the course of the contract is what matters.
I would bet if the Yankees signed him he would be closer to 15 than 20 on average.
Get it done…. Lets move on to strengthening the roster. Boys will be boys, lets not make this a big Magilla. We want Jeter – He wants the pinstripes….. Find the right slot….
According to a Yankee Stadium Splat Chart that I just created and then overlayed, the majority of Jeter’s dives into the stands have occured and will continue to occur down the left field side. And yet Yankee management is still going to overpay for an aging player who refuses to splat on all fields!
One of the reasons why a cost-controlled player like Gardner is so valuable is that he can splat equally well playing LF and CF (and probably RF too!). Presumably Granderson has similar Splat Range, though is seems Gardner’s is higher.
Just for kicks I created a Flip Chart using the Oakland Coliseum field and then overlayed it to Yankee Stadium. What I found was disturbing: Jeter could have employed his famous Flip Play several more times, yet he didn’t. Why?
(this was assuming a right fielder with the hapless skills of Shane Spencer; when you ajust for competence in RF, the results are obviously different)
Since I’ve beenJetered out for 4 weeks now, Chad, have you and the rest of the LoHud Posse put together a list of who you expect the Yanks to lose in the Rule 5 and who, if any they might be interested in? Not sure why NYYs would be protecting Corona. Other than a good glove and speed, he doesn’t offer much besides a bad shoulder.
If Jeter was coming off of a good year, or even an average year, I could understand why the respective negotiating positions of the parties would be in equipoise, but he was awful last year. There are troubling signs that this will be another terrible contract for the Yankees, and there is no good reason for that to happen.
“How was he slightly worse? In 2009 his OBP, HRs and SB’s were superior, and his WAR was 5.7 vs. 4.6 in 2006. Try to keep up with me. His last 2 years are the stellar. And as usual you have subverted the original discussion, which was CC’s ability to hit 20+ HR’s in NYS. I think this is about played out, fun as it has been.”
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You are really bad at reading my posts. I said he got slightly worse OR stayed stable.
Also, why are we talking about WAR? We are just talking about offense. The last time we talked about defense and I used the defensive metrics WAR at fangraphs use you told me I was ridiculous for saying Gardner was better than Crawford last year defensively.
Yankees new hot stove is on YES. What spin this time?
-Team wants Jeter and Lee done by the end of next week.
-Mo waiting (with respect) while Yanks work on Jeter deal. Wants 2, Curry thinks he’s not ‘against’ a one-year deal.
Bob Lorenz and Jack Curry on YES’ Hot Stove. Don’t get much better (at least in off season baseball chatter).
3 good signs !!! Tom in N.J. December 2nd, 2010 at 6:35 pm
-Team wants Jeter and Lee done by the end of next week.
-Mo waiting (with respect) while Yanks work on Jeter deal. Wants 2, Curry thinks he’s not ‘against’ a one-year deal.
LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 6:21 pm
I think Crawford could hit 20 as a Yankee but what he does in one year doesn’t really matter. What he would do over the course of the contract is what matters.
I would bet if the Yankees signed him he would be closer to 15 than 20 on average.
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You are really bad at reading my posts. I said he got slightly worse OR stayed stable.
Also, why are we talking about WAR? We are just talking about offense. The last time we talked about defense and I used the defensive metrics WAR at fangraphs use you told me I was ridiculous for saying Gardner was better than Crawford last year defensively.
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Talking about a contract is an entirely different discussion. I am not endorsing a contract of the length and expense Crawford would demand. However, I respectfully submit, Crawford is right now in his prime.
As for WAR, I threw that in to show you Crawford’s value in conjunction with this year’s WAR of 6.9. I expect 2011 to be in a similar range to 2009-2010. Then WAR (I admit, I am not a big fan of UZR) becomes more relevant. But you yourself read very selectively, my point was I would argue 2009 was a very good year for Crawford and that HR/OPS doesn’t even begin to tell the story w/o actual OBP and SB’s. And back to original point, I say CC would be able to hit 20+ HR at NYS. What he would do over the course of a contract, was not relevant to that initial discussion.
Should read *2009′s* WAR of 6.9
Isn’t the argument that Crawford is improving? When really between 2006 and 2010 he stayed within a set range.
that pic of Jeter looks familiar…
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....e-yankees/
works for me. I’m all for recycling.
I again submit Jeter’s contract as it appears likely will in no way affect any moves the Yankees want to make. The rage against Jeter here is inexplicable.
3 Years 55 mil for Jeter
I again submit Jeter’s contract as it appears likely will in no way affect any moves the Yankees want to make. The rage against Jeter here is inexplicable.
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The very act of Jeter being employed by the Yankees in a given year regardless of contract means he will receive play time not commensurate with his on field ability.
Do stolen bases get factored into WAR?
Crawford has more career triples than he does home runs.
Greinke and Gardner to ‘Zona
Upton, Gordon and minor league prospect ( High A League) from ‘Zona to the Yankees
Chamberlain or Robertson, DJ Mitchell or Nova, Brad Suttle, David Adams and Romine to KC
Give everyone what they want/need
Some very interesting non-tender guys… Tony Gwynn, Scott Hairston, Jenks, Okijima, Cust
“But you yourself read very selectively, my point was I would argue 2009 was a very good year for Crawford and that HR/OPS doesn’t even begin to tell the story w/o actual OBP and SB’s.”
I never argued otherwise. We are talking about his improvement, not his level of success.
“And back to original point, I say CC would be able to hit 20+ HR at NYS. What he would do over the course of a contract, was not relevant to that initial discussion.”
So, the discussion is Crawford would hit 20 HR one time if he played at YS? No one says, lets acquire Crawford because one time he would hit 20+!
When discussing Crawford we are talking about what he would do as a Yankee. As in his general level of performance if he played at YS 81 times a year.
Sure, if I had to bet, I would say Crawford would hit 20 at least once as a Yankee, but in general I don’t see him as a 20+ HR hitter as a Yankee which is what is important.
Some of those triples would be inside-the-park homers in the original Yankee Stadium.
We need to sign Crawford in 1965.
Some of those triples would be inside-the-park homers in the original Yankee Stadium.
We need to sign Crawford in 1965.
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Designated hitters? Where we’re going we don’t need designated hitters
Very dissapointed the Yankees blinked and are apparently upping Jeter’s offer.
3/45 was already an overpay based on his baseball ability, but I could stomach it knowing that at least 3-4 mil would be freed up over previous years…
I just do not understand the Yankees thinking on this. Apparently Jeter had zero other offers, why on earth are they bidding against themselves.
Forget Crawford, there is no way he is coming to NYY, I just don’t see the fit or the need.
Also, this is a guy coming off a career year that is what, asking for 8 freaking years?
Give me a break, give us all a break, Mr. Crawford.
Jack Curry is a major plus for YES. He is a straight shooter and he speaks well. Curry is informative without being smug. I dig his personna.
YankeeFeminista,
I agree that this anti Jeter stuff is very disheartening. After all, if the Yankees give him a few million more or less, how will it affect anyone on here. He is going to be our shortstop for the near future.
LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 6:51 pm
“But you yourself read very selectively, my point was I would argue 2009 was a very good year for Crawford and that HR/OPS doesn’t even begin to tell the story w/o actual OBP and SB’s.”
I never argued otherwise. We are talking about his improvement, not his level of success.
“And back to original point, I say CC would be able to hit 20+ HR at NYS. What he would do over the course of a contract, was not relevant to that initial discussion.”
So, the discussion is Crawford would hit 20 HR one time if he played at YS? No one says, lets acquire Crawford because one time he would hit 20+!
When discussing Crawford we are talking about what he would do as a Yankee. As in his general level of performance if he played at YS 81 times a year.
Sure, if I had to bet, I would say Crawford would hit 20 at least once as a Yankee, but in general I don’t see him as a 20+ HR hitter as a Yankee which is what is important.
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Skew the discussion all you want. The initial discussion was that Crawford would not hit 20 or more homeruns in NYS and whoever posted that he would was ridiculed. I came in to concur that Crawford of course would improve his HR totals. He after all had 19 and 18 at a righty friendly park. No one was discussing over the course of a contract, just whether he would improve his HR total were he to become a Yankee. All this other stuff is window dressing.
No more than 3 years for Jeter ……… firm. The money part can be negotiated.
Hopefully the Jeter and Rivera deals get done before the winter meeting start next Monday.
And Crawford has improved. His 2009 and 2010 together are indicative of what kind of player he has become.
Yes of course the money part can be negotiated, the issue is salary room, didn’t Hal say he wanted to stay about at the same level as next year payroll wise?
I ask then, given he wants to stay at the same level, presumably because he’s sick and tired of funding his competitors through the luxury tax, how does NYY sign Lee, possibly re-sign Pettitte, probably bump up Mo a notch,, and also keep Jeter employed at essentially the same rate?
Doesn’t mean squat that Crawford has improved. The bottom line is he is not a 100+ million ballplayer for the amount of years he is asking and especially when the Yankees have 3 OF that can hold down the fort at a more reasonable rate.
Mo is waiting “out of respect”? No way! He knows what he’s doing. He gets to watch the team make Jeter an offer that’s well above his value. Then when Jeter wont sign, the team gives in even though there are NO other interested teams. This leaves Mo sitting pretty. He’s an icon who ISN’T washed up and would have other teams bidding…he’s in the driver’s seat. Cashman should have signed Mo first.
And Crawford has improved. His 2009 and 2010 together are indicative of what kind of player he has become.
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He’s hit for more power in other seasons than 09. If 09 and 10 are indications he is the same player he always was, except he strikes out a bit more and walks 1% more.
Agreed that Cash should have signed Mo first, but what is more important is how much Mr. Hal winds up paying and how long he has to pay a SS who will be 37 before the AS break.
The Yanks know Jeter would accept 3/45, because he can’t get anything close to that from another team. Yet, they’re making a substantial increase. That’s good for Jeter, but bad for the team.
I’m worried that during the season they might continue to do what’s best for Jeter, rather than what’s best for the team. E.g., if he hits like last year, he should bat 8th or 9th. OTOH, for the purpose of scoring 100 runs and increasing his lifetime hit total, he should bat 1st or 2nd. What decision will the team make? Will they rest Jeter when he insists he’s OK to play? Will they pinch hit for him? Use a late-inning defensive replacement?
yankee21 December 2nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Doesn’t mean squat that Crawford has improved. The bottom line is he is not a 100+ million ballplayer for the amount of years he is asking and especially when the Yankees have 3 OF that can hold down the fort at a more reasonable rate.
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True, but the rotation will have three guys over, 18M, the bullpen will have one and the infield will have three. Why leave out the outfield? You never can have too many $18M+ long term contracts!
Jerkface December 2nd, 2010 at 7:08 pm
And Crawford has improved. His 2009 and 2010 together are indicative of what kind of player he has become.
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He’s hit for more power in other seasons than 09. If 09 and 10 are indications he is the same player he always was, except he strikes out a bit more and walks 1% more.
& Crawford steals 50 plus bases in those years. 60 in 2009 why are you obsessing over miniscule SLG differences when his .492 SLG this year is career best and his wRC+ was actually superior in both 2009 and 2010 to 2006?
Jeter is obviously relying on the Yankees’ largess in his demands. Just remember, we Yankee fans who attend games and buy their goodies are paying for this. In checking the definition of the phrase “negotiating against one’s self” you will find a bold blinking facsimile of the interlocking NY.
There are two things that Crawford does exceptionally well; play an outstanding LF, and steal bases- he not only is fast he is a real good basestealer. Gardner needs to watch guys like him and learn from him as Gardner is a bullet but his basestealing instincts stink.
Crawford is very good player, he is not worth 7/8 years and north of 100 mil.
yankee21 December 2nd, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Doesn’t mean squat that Crawford has improved. The bottom line is he is not a 100+ million ballplayer for the amount of years he is asking and especially when the Yankees have 3 OF that can hold down the fort at a more reasonable rate.
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I totally agree if it is 7-8 years and 100+ mil. However, this is a “theoretical” discussion about evaluating the player, not a practical argument to sign Crawford. Although he is obviously the superior LF by a country mile.
& Crawford steals 50 plus bases in those years. 60 in 2009 why are you obsessing over miniscule SLG differences when his .492 SLG this year is career best and his wRC+ was actually superior in both 2009 and 2010 to 2006?
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Any improvements are not as drastic as you make them out to be. He has always been a base stealer, he did not ‘improve’ into a better one. There just isn’t sufficient evidence to say he is going to keep improving or continue to put up his 2010 numbers.
yankeesfeminista – how come every time he shows you why crawford’s power has no reason to improve, you go back to pointing at his speed?
Gardner needs to watch guys like him and learn from him as Gardner is a bullet but his basestealing instincts stink.
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Probably why Gardner and Crawford attempt steals at the same rate and Gardner’s steal percentage is higher???
i think we could build a straw skyscraper around here.
nick in sf – you been working on your standup routine or something? very funny last few days
”… totally agree if it is 7-8 years and 100+ mil. However, this is a ?theoretical? discussion about evaluating the player, not a practical argument to sign Crawford. Although he is obviously the superior LF by a country mile”
What has been reported is Crawford has asked for 8 years. So it is a relevant discussion not just theoretical.
And superior LF by a country mile at what cost?
At this point I’d keep Gardner, yes he has flaws, some of which are exasperating, but he is also far cheaper and gets the job done.
Although I don’t believe Crawford will be wearing pinstripes next year, (since the $$$$ will be better spent elsewhere and the Doctrine of Largess compels excess funds be given to Sir Jeter) if he were, he would hit at least 20 homeruns if that were to be expected of him. The BA might suffer a bit, but if you have watched him, it’s obvious that he does have bleacher power.
With Gardner’s speed, he should have led the league in steals and attempted more bases.
He is the epitomy of hesitant,, is that point really arguable vs. Crawford?
Doctrine of Largess?
I hope Jeter gets at leat $18.
yankee21 – in his first full season in the league… Gardner was 5th in SB overall… 2 behind Crawford (who had played 9 more games and had 100 more plate appearances) at a better rate (Crawford was caught one more time than Gardner).
Gardner steals just fine.
He is the epitomy of hesitant,, is that point really arguable vs. Crawford?
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ah yes, but you cannot trust your eyes the #’s prove you wrong….
i think i just splat myself.
Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2010 at 7:22 pm
yankeesfeminista – how come every time he shows you why crawford’s power has no reason to improve, you go back to pointing at his speed?
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First of all Crawford’s power has improved, 2010 was his best SLG year. Secondly his speed is relevant b/c LGY said he didn’t have a good year in 09 b/c his SLG wasn’t great. SLG is relevant to the whole package. A player like Crawford that bats .305 .364 .452 and a wOBA .367 and 60 stolen bases, wRC+128 and I am going to solely worry about his power. Why? The point is Crawford brings a package of different things and that is why he is such a good player.
When asked about #2, someone, when hard-pressed, stated rhetorically, “Is he now, the straw that stirs the drink?”. Another would reply, ” is he now (if not always) a “complementary” player?.
yankeefemenista – one data point does not constitute a trend. his power iso is not significantly higher than he acheived earlier in his career, and he has completely failed to sustain that level of power over his career.
and I am going to solely worry about his power
… you were talking solely about his power in this discussion, remember? Until that part was refuted anyway…
yankee21 December 2nd, 2010 at 7:27 pm
With Gardner’s speed, he should have led the league in steals and attempted more bases.
He is the epitomy of hesitant,, is that point really arguable vs. Crawford.
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But how do we quantify “hesitancy” in order to be sure our eyes aren’t deceiving us?:D
Seriously though, I agree, Gardner needs to show more entitlement on the basepaths.
With Gardner’s speed, he should have led the league in steals and attempted more bases.
He is the epitomy of hesitant,, is that point really arguable vs. Crawford?
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Give him more plate appearances he will have more steals than Crawford. Crawford had 40 more base stealing opportunities than Gardner.
Gone are the days of guys stealing 100 bags at a low rate, its all about high efficiency base stealing. To suggest that Gardner should steal more is fine, but to it while somehow denigrating his current base stealing prowess is foolish because it doesn’t line up with reality.
You think Gardner is hesitant on the bases.
Do you think Crawford is hesitant on the bases?
because if you watched every Rays game you probably would think that, because they stole the same damn percentage of times. That means whenever Gardner didn’t steal, Crawford didn’t steal, which means he’d be standing around all hesitantly!
Perception is in the eye of the beholder right? You watch more Yankee games so you don’t think Gardner steals enough. you do not watch every other base stealer’s games to get an accurate picture of how base stealing is done nowadays.
Statements acceptable to Jerkface about Gardner’s base stealing: ‘Gardner should steal more, he is fast and I think he should be better than every other base stealer.’ Don’t hate on his 2010 game, he was already really good and perfectly in line with all the elite stealers.
Unacceptable: “He needs to steal more, like Carl Crawford.” PATENTLY FALSE
“Secondly his speed is relevant b/c LGY said he didn’t have a good year in 09 b/c his SLG wasn’t great.”
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Please post where I said that.
Why are you all wasting time pulling up stats. Crawford is a drastic upgrade over Gardner and he can actually get a big hit when you need it. Gardner is walk, k or infield hit. He’s a K-Mart special.
For those who are interested. LeBron returns to Cleveland at 8PM EST on TNT.
To the folks who think you can’t put a price tag on Jeter, that he’s invaluable, etc. are just full of crap. This is a 36-year-old, over-the-hill shortstop. The Yankees are doing what they do best — capitulating and bidding against themselves. Hal and Hank don’t have a pair of cojones between them. Jeter having the offer upped is like taking candy from a baby.
Now it’s time to offer the borough of Brooklyn to Cliff Lee.
Bret – Has Crawford showed a propensity for getting big hits in his career? It would be news to me. Probably him too.
What if?
In two years time, Jeter is abysmal and Arod turns into Albert Belle.
Thats almost 50 million dollars a year for nothing.
Not even the Yankees can absorb that kind of loss and still be in contention.
This habit of bidding against themselves will get them in trouble somewhere down the road.
How does anyone know what Jeter will do next year. Haven’t players had off years, only to bounce back, maybe he was hurt. Look at Vernon Wells this year. 36 is not old.
Jerkface, fair points. Except for where the he did you get the sense I was hating on Gardner’s 2010 game. PATENTLY FALSE!
The key question is whether the Yankees sign Lee. I hope Cashman spends more time on that than this board. I hope all goes well there or the top prospects will be at great risk of going to get a pitcher.
Honestly, who gives a rats if the Yankee’s overpay Jeter? The Yankees play with house money every year, they are never worried about a “bad contract” sinking their franchise.
Is there some other shortstop that you would rather have playing next to A-Rod this season?
One that will outperform the consistency of the captain, both offensively and defensively?
I can tell you quite certainly that the answer to that question is no. There is no one out there but Jeter for the Yankees right now.
If you were in a position at your job where you had to negotiate for a new salary, and you knew there was absolutely no way your company could let you go… you wouldn’t force them to pay you more money?
“Statements acceptable to Jerkface”
LOL. Do you blow yourself kisses everytime you walk by a mirror too?
That is very funny. Thanks Jerk I need a good laugh.
Just another — Bingo! It’s comical that Hal comes out and says that the Yankees have already made many of their players ridiculously rich. Then he capitulates and ups the offer. Don’t even make the comment when you’re armed with a squirt gun. Cliff Lee’s Panzer tank is going to roll over the Bronx like the 1939 Germans in Poland.
Maybe Jerkface is Cashman…
tar – would you feel better if he said ““Statements acceptable to logic and reason based on facts”?
Didn’t Hank make the “Rich” comment?
Hal is usually not that verbose.
“Crawford steals 50 plus bases in those years. 60 in 2009 why are you obsessing over miniscule SLG differences when his .492 SLG this year is career best and his wRC+ was actually superior in both 2009 and 2010 to 2006?”
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The steals are irrelevant to this discussion, because we are discussing if he has improved. His SB have stayed about stable, so he hasn’t improved there.
wRC+
05: 120
06: 126
07: 124
08: 97
09: 128
10: 141
As you can see from 05-09 he stayed relatively stable. He didn’t really improve and his 09 wRC+ was just a slight improvement over his previous high in 2006.
However, the problem with wRC+ is that it is about performance relative to the rest of the league. Therefore, it is not necessarily indicative of him personally improving, but that he was slightly better in relation to the rest of the league in 09 than 06.
So, let’s remove the rest of the league and look at wOBA
05: .353
06: .368
07: .365
08: .319
09: .367
10: .378
In this case, it doesn’t even show slight improvement over his high in 2006 in 2009.
Overall, Crawford performed basically the same, give or take a bit, from 2005-2009. Hence the comments about him staying stable and not improving.
Then in 2010, he has a career year. That doesn’t mean he is improving. All that means is that he had a career year and the jury is still out whether he will take another step forward, revert back to 05-09 levels, or stay the same.
Crawford’s statistics don’t show he is improving. They show he had a career year in his walk year.
Irreverent Discourse — here are some more questions:
Is there some other shortstop that you would rather have playing next to A-Rod in 2012? In 2013? In 2014?
Wouuld Nunez plus some player who could be signed for $17 million per year help the Yanks more than Jeter alone would for the next 3 or 4 years?
LGY December 2nd, 2010 at 7:39 pm
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Please post where I said that.
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You posted his HR/OPS for each year, while ignoring his 2009 numbers in terms of OBP at a career high of .364, SB’s RC+, etc. as the sole argument, thus overrate HR/SLG over the above numbers.
Assuming Crawford were to be signed, would Gardie be the one to go (or sit on the bench). “Assuming the Yankees were satisfied that the wrist operation has eliminated any problems and he’s “good to go”, IMHO, Gardie slides over to CF and the Grandyman moves over to RF. Swish????……probably would be traded since he would not be happy on the bench and that could cast a negative pale. Gardie and Crawford at the top of the order could be quite awesome…I would then have Tex and Canoski switch spots in the order, certainly against righties. But….it’s not going to happen and certainly not a priority given the team’s more compelling needs.
One that will outperform the consistency of the captain,
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Consistency from Jeter? LOL. Yeh he’s consistent…singles in the 1st inning, then grounds out, then GIDP, then Ks. Game after game after game…
Yes, you definitely can say he is consistent.
*overrating*
(watching a hockey game at the same time)
“tar – would you feel better if he said ““Statements acceptable to logic and reason based on facts”?”
LOL. What are you Spock Jr.
And no I like it just like he posted it.
I read two consecutive years of consistent wOBA in ’09 and ’10:
.367, .378, respectively as an improvement.
Plus he is hitting for more power, as 10 indicates ISO188. Look we agree to disagree. Crawford is a better hitter now.
Where does this Jeter has no leverage come from? The thought of Nuñez playing shortstop all year is not leverage?
Yankees non tendered Aceves and Moseley per Mark Feinsand on Twitter
David in Cal – where on the field is this mythical “$17 million player” that will replace Jeter going to play? There are no shortstops that deserve that money available in the next 3 years, most of the field is pretty locked up for the yankees for the forseeable future… so where do we wedge in another $17million star?
I say just let that money play short.
And how are two years of his highest wRC+ not an improvement?
09: 128
10: 141
off to the LBJ debacle…
“Honestly, who gives a rats if the Yankee’s overpay Jeter? The Yankees play with house money every year, they are never worried about a “bad contract” sinking their franchise.”
Very true. Getting on Jeter but saying nothing about the total waste of money on players like Igawa who gave the Yankees a big nothing.
Folks are missing the point: Where is Jeter going to go? To chase milestones in remote locales for about $8 mil per? Seriously? Who’s going to pay him even 2/3 of what he’s getting in NY?
Hey, it’s not just about the numbers; it’s also about the team’s inability to execute its business intelligently.
If I work at Apple, and no one will pay me close to what Apple does, what do you think I’m going to do?
yankeefeminista – i think you have a lot to learn about how statistical trends work. you are not being fair to this discussion. you can’t just trim down his career into small bits until it shows the improvement you want it to.
Based on one year trends, Beltre and Bautista will be the 2 best power hitters in the league next season, by your standards.
Kinda surprised the Yanks let Ace go
# Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Bret – Has Crawford showed a propensity for getting big hits in his career? It would be news to me. Probably him too.
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He’s a .300 hitter. Gardner is a playoff flop. I’ll take the contact hitter. Gardner tanked in the 2nd half. He’s totally exposed and completely irrelevant. Yanks will sign Crawford and you’ll like it.
YankFanCA – where is he gonna go? how about on vacation for the rest of his like with his ridiculously hot GF? ride off into the sunset and never have a care in his life again? I’m pretty sure he doesn’t actually care how much money he makes anymore. He just wants more because you NEVER take the first offer in a negotiation. That’s like… negotiating 101.
Irreverent Discourse December 2nd, 2010 at 7:57 pm
yankeefeminista – i think you have a lot to learn about how statistical trends work. you are not being fair to this discussion. you can’t just trim down his career into small bits until it shows the improvement you want it to.
Based on one year trends, Beltre and Bautista will be the 2 best power hitters in the league next season, by your standards.
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One year trends? Small bits? lol.Crawford has a body of work and aside from his injured 2008, they have been very good. Go look at his stats. You are the one who is not being fair to Crawford.
bret – I know you were being funny… but I don’t want anyone to mistake what you said for truth…
He’s a .300 hitter.
OK…
Gardner is a playoff flop.
Gardner has 50 at bats in the playoffs with a broken wrist.
Crawford has twice the playoff experience and has largely “flopped” as well. He had a good ALCS in 2008 and otherwise has not helped his team win.
I’ll take the contact hitter.
Gardner is actually a MUCH better contact hitter than Crawford. It’s not even close.
Gardner tanked in the 2nd half.
Again, go swing a bat with a broken wrist and get back to me.
He’s totally exposed and completely irrelevant. Yanks will sign Crawford and you’ll like it.
hehe…
“Hey, it’s not just about the numbers; it’s also about the team’s inability to execute its business intelligently.”
Yankees throw away big bucks on players who contribute nothing.
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Jeter and the Yankees need each other. They will get a deal done.
OK, enjoy yourselves. I am missing a great hockey game. So, I am out of here.
*it* not *they*
yankeefemenista – Crawford has a body of work and aside from his injured 2008, they have been very good. Go look at his stats.
Yes, that body of work says that he has been consistent, and had a good year in a contract year. I could point you to quite a few other players (hunter, beltre, bay) who had slightly improved walk years and went right back to their norms the next season.
He’s a .300 hitter. Gardner is a playoff flop.
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I hope you don’t look at Crawfords 2010 ALDS performance, you might puke.