A new look in the American League East
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2010 
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While the Yankees are closing in on re-signing two of their icons, the Red Sox are closing in on reloading their infield. The Red Sox are on the verge of giving up four young players, two of whom are significant prospects, in a trade for first baseman Adrian Gonzalez.
The trade is essentially a first step toward making up for the loss of free agents Adrian Beltre and Victor Martinez. Kevin Youkilis will shift to Beltre’s spot at third base, and Gonzalez seems a natural fit in Martinez’s No. 3 spot in the lineup.
The Red Sox have also shown interest in Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth this winter. Either of those two would bring additional offensive help and solidify an outfield that couldn’t stay healthy last season.
That’s the Red Sox approach to the offseason: Lose offense. Add offense.
The other threat in the East, the Rays, are in something of a restructuring period. It’s not necessarily a rebuilding, but Tampa is certainly transitioning to a new wave of young players. It may be time for Desmond Jennings to get a chance in the outfield, there is talk of trading Jason Bartlett so that Reid Brignac can takeover at shortstop, and Jeremy Hellickson has done all he can do in a Triple-A rotation.
Changes are happening in the American League East, and the Yankees aren’t the only ones making moves.
Absolute fleecing by Theo. Casey Kelly is the best prospect in the bunch and he hasn’t done anything.
A crappy pitcher based entirely on project.
A ’1st baseman’ that hasn’t slugged .500 in a season
and this guy: .270 .328 .377 .705 ???? In A BALL???
Did Hoyer not shop this deal around? What happened to getting something comparable to Tex?
The AL East is just beastly.
I think we all overestimated Hoyer and his desire to get good value. What would have happened if he had waited through the winter meetings?
As usual seems pretty light on the Sox side of quid-pro-quo. Wonder how shoulder rehab is going to affect A-Gon going into the season?
http://fullcount.weei.com/spor.....s-a-padre/
Maybe this was the best Hoyer could have done, given the circumstances.
Rich in NJ…….The Joba talk seemed to be over the fact that the Yankee Front Office is tired of him and that other teams think getting him out of NYC would resurrect his career as a prime time closer…….The Swisher noise is about The Yanks getting Carl Crawford, as there appears to be much interest in Nick…..However there is no mistake that Brian Cashman is gauging the level of interest for Nick Swisher……It all starts for real come Monday when the Winter Meetings begin……..Also, the Yanks still believe that AJ Burnett will come up big in 2011 as there was a lot of behind the scene stuff that caused issues for him…….No explanations given as it was just a passing comment……..Yanks passed last winter on Matt Holiday with an eye for this winter when Carl Crawford became a free agent…….Expect this winter to be a very active session…..
A-Gone has a big head.
Now we really need to keep Joba.
Thanks again, Pat. I wonder if this is a prelude to a big Upton package of talent?
Gonzalez is damaged goods… the bad shoulder is a problem and it had an impact the Padres haul.
Has to be a conspiracy, Hoyer was a plant in the Padres system by the Sox to get Gonzalez to Boston.
Better hope his car doesn’t break down in S. Cali.
GB-
I don’t think the snakes would be interested in
Swish’s contract do you ?
Pat M.
Thank you! Yankees will get Crawford. It’s becoming more and more obvious that they’re shopping Joba, Swisher and Cervelli. Gardner too if he were healthy but they’ll have to wait on that as he’ll be portrayed as the 4th OF for now.
It seems like RF will be filled via trade.
I say screw it, go for Shin Shoo Choo. I don’t care if he’s a lefty.
Pat M, I just want to get your reaction to Jeter taking a pay cut? Maybe the Captain is a team player after all.
IMO, Hoyer did an admirable job, he got some very good prospects. With a $37 million dollar payroll in 2010 the Padres couldn’t afford to acquire high-cost major league players. They wanted cost-conroled prospects.
As far as getting more from another team. How many other teams had the prospects and the ability to extend Adrian Gonzalez at a cost of $125 million plus? No one was going to give up a slew of prospects for a one year rental.
the Padres – Ped Sox trade also disturbs the Diamondbacks potential haul for Upton.
Again, don’t see how Crawford is that much of an upgrade, if any, over Swish.
Crawford has more speed and a better glove. Swish hits for a higher OPS every year, doesn’t struggle against lefties, and costs half as much.
The Rays’ bullpen is a hot mess. That’s going to bit them in the ass all season long.
I would think many teams would be interested in Swisher.
Swisher belongs in pinstripes… keep him in the Bronx!
And I would think many teams would be interested in Joba.
“GMAN December 4th, 2010 at 3:31 pm: Gonzalez is damaged goods… the bad shoulder is a problem and it had an impact the Padres haul.”
Well, just scanning the good old interweb, “labrum repair” is a pretty vague term. The extent of the injury and degree of repair differs depending on where and what kind of labrum injury it is. I’ve seen estimates of 3-5 months for recovery, “longer for overhead throwers.” A-Gon’s Boston medical exam I guess will verify the type of labrum damage and degree of reconstruction or repair which should verify the rehab time. He’s going to be a late bloomer in 2011 is my guess. Might not be right till Mid season. Plus he was swinging with a bad shoulder for a year already. Wonder how that affects his swing now that the problem has been “fixed”?
Then again, Teix has no known shoulder problem and he doesn’t hit consistently until June;) Man does he have one ugly swing. No wonder he’s cold the first two months of the season.
GB…..It seems as though the Yanks want to upgrade their outfield situation and Swisher could be on the move……Upton talk is expected to get much chatter in the next week or so…..Yanks are said to be really hot for Carl Crawford along with Lee….Your boy Branden Laird is gaining popularity as is Brackman…..I’m going to meet with some of my baseball cronies for lunch, they’ll be more baseball chatter…….
IMO, Hoyer did an admirable job, he got some very good prospects. With a $37 million dollar payroll in 2010 the Padres couldn’t afford to acquire high-cost major league players. They wanted cost-conroled prospects.
As far as getting more from another team. How many other teams had the prospects and the ability to extend Adrian Gonzalez at a cost of $125 million plus? No one was going to give up a slew of prospects for a one year rental.
–
They acquired a dime-a-dozen outfielder, a 1st basemen with no potential to be a star and limited minor league power, and a pitcher whose entire stock is based on what might happen if he gained 50 pounds and started throwing 94 mph.
They got fleeced. This is a terrible deal. Look at what Atlanta gave up for Teixeira, or the Angels gave up for Teix. A guy with no chance to be re-signed. If anything, adding a window for negotiation should increase the cost.
Not one of the players is above AA. Theres only 3 plus a PTBNL that is not a major prospect.
COST CONTROLLED is any player with less than 3 years of service time. They could have got Jacoby Ellsbury, Bard, even Buchholz. Those players would be cost controlled.
Very good prospects, thats hilarious, you don’t even know who Rizzo and Fuentes are.
if you move Swish what are you looking to get back
GMAN- Upton is locked up for years at a club friendly cost and is several years younger than A-Gone. Hard to compare.
Pat-
Thank you for sharing your info.
Please keep it coming.
TU December 4th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
GB-
I don’t think the snakes would be interested in
Swish’s contract do you
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Yankees deal off Swisher for talent and flip them in a three/four team trade with a team like KC with Greinke going to Arizona. Fill in the names to make KC happy. Montero, Betances, Banuelos and Brackman not among them. Chamberlain being one of them.
Great inside scoop Pat M. and much appreciated…
Yanks still got a boner for Upton, eh?
# Jerkface December 4th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
IMO, Hoyer did an admirable job, he got some very good prospects. With a $37 million dollar payroll in 2010 the Padres couldn’t afford to acquire high-cost major league players. They wanted cost-conroled prospects.
As far as getting more from another team. How many other teams had the prospects and the ability to extend Adrian Gonzalez at a cost of $125 million plus? No one was going to give up a slew of prospects for a one year rental.
–
They acquired a dime-a-dozen outfielder, a 1st basemen with no potential to be a star and limited minor league power, and a pitcher whose entire stock is based on what might happen if he gained 50 pounds and started throwing 94 mph.
They got fleeced. This is a terrible deal. Look at what Atlanta gave up for Teixeira, or the Angels gave up for Teix. A guy with no chance to be re-signed. If anything, adding a window for negotiation should increase the cost.
Not one of the players is above AA. Theres only 3 plus a PTBNL that is not a major prospect.
COST CONTROLLED is any player with less than 3 years of service time. They could have got Jacoby Ellsbury, Bard, even Buchholz. Those players would be cost controlled.
Very good prospects, thats hilarious, you don’t even know who Rizzo and Fuentes are.
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I’m sorry I have to do this one more time, please forgive me
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:42 pm
To all the Red Sux fans trolling here, getting AG for prospects only, sorry it ain’t happening, it’s called mental masterbation, keep dreaming.
The problem with the trade is that it doesn’t hurt enough.
When you trade for a player like AGon it is supposed to be painful.
Not fair but painful.
The rangers and Yankees were willing to give up a better prospect than anyone san Diego got for a few months of Lee.
The Padres just traded a full year of their hometown superstar and the Red Sox are not saying to themselves man that really hurt.
That’s a problem.
Chad,
Considering we’re talking about the #1, #3 and #6 prospect (according to Baseball America) in the Sox system I think it’s pretty fair to say the Sox gave up three significant prospects…
this is a typical red sox trade. get the great player, give up NOTHING.
Without Buchholz, i dont know how that deal benefitted SD at all, especially since they get to extend him, so it isnt a rental.
Kelly had a crappy year in AA and he is the centerpiece?
This is again why SD will suck…
Does Thome have any $$$ value to the Yankees going for his 600th HR in pinstripes?
Pat M. December 4th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
GB…..It seems as though the Yanks want to upgrade their outfield situation and Swisher could be on the move……Upton talk is expected to get much chatter in the next week or so…..Yanks are said to be really hot for Carl Crawford along with Lee….Your boy Branden Laird is gaining popularity as is Brackman…..I’m going to meet with some of my baseball cronies for lunch, they’ll be more baseball chatter…….
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I figured that somebody would be hot for Laird and probably Romine. When you go to lunch, where a wire and pipe into here so we can listen.
Brett-
If you are a basketball fan I would highly suggest watching Kyrie Irving of Duke. As a true freshman, he absolutely picked up Jacob Pullen who some had as a pre-season 1st team All-American. And that was in his 4th career college game. He might be one and done even at Duke. He’s an incredible talent.
*picked apart Pullen*
GB-
Now I see where you’re going. Hadn’t thought of it that way.
Kelly had a down year in AA. those three in skill are the equivalent of three players in the Yankee system we probably have never even heard of.
it’s ok. Lee will be here next week, and Pettitte will come back, and maybe even crawford (though i am indifferent to that).
jerkface I disagree and I know in detail who all the players involved are. I don’t think your opinion would be shared by many GM’s in baseball. I have already seen somewhere that one has said, “the Padres got a good haul”. Also, the prospects will be cheaper in the long term than Ellsbury, Bard and Buchholz would be.
But what you really don’t get, is that Boston would not give up those players.
Pat M.
Allow me to add my thanks as well. Enjoy your lunch
***wear a wire***
MTU, it’s probably going to take a three/four team trade to pull off a deal like that.
Padres had to trade him now… they would realize a lesser haul had they waited to till mid-season to dump him… when and if he is ready to play…given the uncertainty of his shoulder. They knew he was heading out the door… they got the most they could.
Perhaps Red Sox will think twice about an expensive long term extension for Gonzalez…given the bum shoulder.
BWOzar December 4th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Chad, Considering we’re talking about the #1, #3 and #6 prospect (according to Baseball America) in the Sox system I think it’s pretty fair to say the Sox gave up three significant prospects.
****
Good post.
“The rangers and Yankees were willing to give up a better prospect than anyone san Diego got for a few months of Lee. ”
————-
exactly.
anybody who says that teams never give up decent prospects for a full year “rental” isn’t paying much attention.
GB-
Three team deals have been done many times.
4 Team ?
It takes some real cogitatin’ to figure out who wants what, and who is willing to give up what.
Guess that’s why they pay these guys the big bucks.
Pat M,
Thanks for the insights.
The other major issue is the level of risk with the package.
Hoyer got nothing close to a sure thing MLB ready player.
He got a bunch of projection and hope.
This could turn out being a complete disaster for the Padres org.
“I have already seen somewhere that one has said, “the Padres got a good haul”. Also, the prospects will be cheaper in the long term than Ellsbury, Bard and Buchholz would be.”
If the goal is cheaper without improving the team, then score one for the Padres; it was a “haul.” IMO, two Double A players and one Sally League player do not constitute a “haul.” Gonzalez is a three-time all star and two time gold glove, power hitting 1st baseman going into his prime years. Not getting even one MLB level player is a little light, IMO. Unless that shoulder is a big question mark.
Here’s a question to ponder.
If the Red Sox can get Adrian Gonzalez without surrendering Buchholz…Can the Yankees acquire Justin Upton without giving up Hughes or Jesus Montero? Remember AZ has Miguel Montero at catcher.
BD (Boston Dave) December 4th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
“The rangers and Yankees were willing to give up a better prospect than anyone san Diego got for a few months of Lee. ”
————-
exactly.
anybody who says that teams never give up decent prospects for a full year “rental” isn’t paying much attention.
******************
I am saying it’s stupid to do so.
Of the four most likely teams that are in on Werth and Crawford, the two losing teams will get in a dogfight for Upton.
Bret-
easily.
“Considering we’re talking about the #1, #3 and #6 prospect (according to Baseball America) in the Sox system I think it’s pretty fair to say the Sox gave up three significant prospects…”
——————-
BA’s predictions have proven to be as useful as grading defense solely on # of errors.
I don’t think anybody is suggesting the prospects are worthless. They just aren’t the caliber of other prospects that have been moved around for other elite players over the past few years.
Arguing that the Padres HAD to trade Gonzalez isn’t the real point. The point is… did SD get the best deal possible?
I don’t think any of us know the answer to that. But it’s hard to believe they couldn’t get anything better, at least for me.
# Bret The Hitman December 4th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Here’s a question to ponder.
If the Red Sox can get Adrian Gonzalez without surrendering Buchholz…Can the Yankees acquire Justin Upton without giving up Hughes or Jesus Montero? Remember AZ has Miguel Montero at catcher.
———————————————————————
they sure could…start with Gardner and joba
“Does Thome have any $$$ value to the Yankees going for his 600th HR in pinstripes?”
I don’t know, but the first think that came to mind when I read that was Randy Johnson getting his 300th win as a San Francisco Giant… in front of 5,000 people… on a cold, damp night… On the road vs. the Nationals.
So maybe not much.
Why wouldn’t Hoyer have checked around with other teams? I’m sure he got the best deal he could.
The Padres would have maximized value on Gonzalez if they traded him last yr at this time.
The bum shoulder and only one yr left on his contract really hurt them.
Bottom line is that Gonzalez is damaged goods.
Outside of the monetary costs.. who would you guys rather have: Crawford or Upton?
“I am saying it’s stupid to do so.”
—————
more so than your posts on Kevin Youkilis’s defensive stats?
i doubt it.
not to mention, teams do it all the time. that’s the way it goes. The Yanks offered Montero for a rental of Lee (with the full assumption that they’d be able to sign him, sure, but still)
teams do it ALL the time. That’s the point. Whether you think it’s stupid is as irrelevant.
San Diego needed to get the best deal possible. I question whether they did. Maybe I’m wrong.
MTU December 4th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Bret-
easily.
********
Then I say DO IT!
Plenty for Towers to choose from:
Brackman, Betances, Joba, Laird, Nunez, Gardner, Cervelli, Nova, Noesi, Phelps.
Shame-
Both.
Shame Spencer December 4th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Outside of the monetary costs.. who would you guys rather have: Crawford or Upton?
*******
BOTH
Crawford, Granderson, Upton is the BEST OF in all of MLB.
Red Sox fans should be divided and arguing right now over whether it was worth it to trade the prospects they did for a year of Gonzalez. Like it was on here when the Cliff Lee trade rumors were swirling.
Instead, the tenor in Red Sox nation is just joy.
When you trade for a player like Adrian Gonzalez the fanbase should be divided to a certain degree, but they are not.
The player to be name later in the Gonzalez deal… Ped Sox recent 3rd round draft pick…Sean Coyle?
GMAN December 4th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
The Padres would have maximized value on Gonzalez if they traded him last yr at this time.
The bum shoulder and only one yr left on his contract really hurt them.
Bottom line is that Gonzalez is damaged goods.
********
True. Good thing Upton missed the final month of the season due to a shoulder issue!!!
Rizzo was a number one pick in 2007. he missed most of the 2008 season with Hodgkins Lymphoma this yr in high a and double a, he hit 260 with 25 homers, 42 doubles and 100rbi.
He`s a prospect and ready for the next level.
Upton’s potential vs Crawford’s historic record of excellence? Tough choice, but if Upton’s healthy, I take him.
historic meaning his career so far,,,,not record setting historic
give me Justin Upton over Crawford
Bret-
and if you look above GB has pointed out yet another way.
You acquire cc.
Flip Swish for talent. Get Greinke from the Royals with that talent and some of our own.
You then ship Greinke to the Snakes for Upton.
GGBG becomes numero 4
See. I told you it’s simple.
GB…We agree on something
“Crawford, Granderson, Upton is the BEST OF in all of MLB.”
You forgot the part of the OF where the bullpen is, with Soria warming up to be Mo’s setup guy!
That shoulder is a huge question mark.
BeanTown faithful have to believe in rehab.
Reality may not be too pleasant.
michaels07,
Rizzo is an intriguing prospect for sure.
Still, it doesn’t seem typical to be able to get a true elite player for not 1 player who has excelled above AA and/or isn’t considered an elite prospect.
None of the guys the Sox moved are elite prospects. They are all intriguing guys but they are so far from “sure things” that you have to scratch your head.
Kelly is no more of a “future front line starter” than any of the Yankees top handful of pitching prospects. They all have a ways to go.
There’s maybe 6 teams that could afford Gonzalez’ contract requirements and four of those teams didn’t need a 1st baseman.
AnthonyMcCarron Mo Rivera on his new two-year deal w Yanks: “I think maybe that might be the last two years. Maybe, I don?t know.” Big grin when hedging
All we really have to do is wait for Pat to get back from lunch.
He can tell us exactly what is gonna happen.
eboland11 Rivera on his negotiation: “I wanted it to go smooth and that?s exactly what happened.”
*****************
joeman December 4th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
well looks like SD is going to trade AG to the Red Sox for minor league players and a possible player off their roster…….
# Giuseppe Franco December 3rd, 2010 at 6:22 pm
The Red Sox aren’t getting Gonzalez unless the Padres get a major haul in return.
We heard this crap all last offseason too and it amounted to nothing. He’s still a Padre and the team was much better in 2010.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Giuseppe Franco -
That sounds more like a wish list from a Sux fan.
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# Giuseppe Franco December 3rd, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Indeed, Al.
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# GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2010 at 6:35 pm
San Diego is this close to the NL West top and they’re going to sink their next 2-3 years and risk losing what fans they have? Not likely. If Gonzales is dealt, it’ll be mid season, if SD falls out of the race. He’s also going to get Teixeira money. A lot of money and farm for somebody that may not play until early to late May.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:40 pm
GB7 -
And not to mention, nobody knows yet how he’ll be coming off the injury. The Sux have been talking AG since last winter. I don’t see that trade happening unless Boston offers much, much more than prospects.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:42 pm
To all the Red Sux fans trolling here, getting AG for prospects only, sorry it ain’t happening, it’s called mental masterbation, keep dreaming.
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*****************
Excellent post .
pat, that’s great news, huh? Rivera caved.
Fair trade… 3 better than average prospects for a power hitting 1st baseman with one yr on his contract and a bum shoulder.
Why would a GM would put more on the table for Gonzalez.
MTU December 4th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
All we really have to do is wait for Pat to get back from lunch.
He can tell us exactly what is gonna happen.
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I told him to wear a wire. They might get suspicious if he pulls out a pen and notepad. At his age, I don’t trust his memory, though it has to be better than Randy’s.
Ruby has nothing better to do then to save all the posts that run contrary to his views?
Sick boy.
I only surprising thing here is that it costs B*st*n four players to get him .
I was sure that San Diego would have been willing to give him to the R*d S*x for only “Rey Fuentes” .
GB-
Now if AP would just cave for one more year.
RhapsodyInBlue December 4th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Ruby has nothing better to do then to save all the posts that run contrary to his views?
Sick boy.
**************
I didn’t save all the posts — it was “joeman” — in the last thread .
Re-read the post again .
ruby and joeboy are the same person. He just changes names, copies and pastes and agrees with himself.
BD (Boston Dave),
Like the haul Toronto got for Halladay? Or Philly got for Lee? Or Minn got for Santana?
You can always spot someone who is truly miserable (Ruby) when something “good” happens and they still have nowhere to go but to find company amidst confrontation.
Ruby.
Typically I don’t read your posts, not one I seek out because of your nonsense.
I noticed that particular post because of the length.
Have fun.
I see white smoke…..
JackCurryYES The Jeter deal is done. http://www.myyesnetwork.com/16.....ee_on_deal
Ruby has nothing better to do then to save all the posts that run contrary to his views?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
To be fair, those guys are just shocked to see what a good GM can get done. Epstein got one of the best players in the game for way less than Cashman gave up for Curtis “one good month” Granderson. Cashman got fleeced compared to the A-Gon deal.
The only thing Cashman knows how to do is hand out huge contracts to superstars (which any GM with NY’s patroll could do).
Payroll not patroll..
Jerkface,
Why would the Padres want Ellsbury who they would have to pay money in a few years too? Buchholz? Are you serious? Name another team in the past 5 years that traded a cost controlled pitcher who has a year plus experience in the majors and is coming off a great year. and Edwin Jackson and JA Happ do not count
We have a new Pope? Pope Jeter will be keeping the seat warm for the next pope…..Pope Ryan.
“BD (Boston Dave),
Like the haul Toronto got for Halladay? Or Philly got for Lee? Or Minn got for Santana?”
—————-
Kyle Drabek was a FAR higher prospect than Kelly, IMO. Taylor/Wallace were farther along and much more highly regarded than Rizzo for sure.
Phillipe Aumont is no slouch and far more likely, IMO, to make a major league impact than Kelly. I don’t know enough about Gillies to comment but I know he was considered a decent prospect.
The Johan trade has no comparison. It was just brutal and an embarrassment for Minny.
But honestly, I think this trade will go down as only slightly better than the Johan trade, which is pretty bad.
p.s. the reason the Johan Minny trade was so bad was because they did not, in fact, get the best deal they could.
If nobody else offered anything and they had to move Johan, ok.
But like that deal, I question whether SD got the best possible deal. I really doubt they did, but again, I could be wrong.
Still, it seems odd that there wasn’t a single rumor about another team making an offer to SD. I’m sure there were plenty of teams that would have been very interested.
AnthonyMcCarron Mo Mo (get it?): “I met with Cash, we talked a little bit and a few hours later, it was done.” Rivera’s physical is Mon or Tues
AnthonyMcCarron Mo Rivera on Boston involvement: “It was respect.” He added, “The Yankees did what they were supposed to do and that?s the end of that.”
Yeah, Theo is such a genius that his philosophy last offseason completely crashed and burned, resulting in a 3rd place finish.
I really don’t care about boston getting Gonzalez other than when Epstein breaks wind, all of the Boston trolls slide in under the cracks to yammer on for a week about how good it smells.
What we’re shocked about is to see the cheap Sox pay twice for a ballplayer.
Cash and players.
And very happy to see it.
# GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
ruby and joeboy are the same person. He just changes names, copies and pastes and agrees with himself.
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not true…….
That’s great news on Jeter!!! Finally it’s done! Love me some Curry!
“Derek Jeter has officially agreed to a three-year contract with the Yankees for between $15 and $17 million a year, according to a person directly involved in the negotiations. The deal includes a fourth-year option that isn’t guaranteed. The deal was consummated on Saturday afternoon and is pending a physical”.
Thanks for the updates, pat and Pat M.
Nice that the Yankees got the housework done before going on their business trip!
pat -
I was up in your neck of the woods today – Mark Twain JHS in Yonkers. Argonaut Diner for lunch. Daughter had a fitness meet.
ruby and joeboy aren’t the same person they just carpool.
“when Epstein breaks wind, all of the Boston trolls slide in under the cracks to yammer on for a week about how good it smells.”
————
nice
Two targets down, 6 to go. Lee, Pettitte, Upton, Crawford, Wood and Feliciano.
Rosenthal:
Rival execs mixed on #Padres’ return for AGon. #RedSox not giving up OF Kalish or SS Iglesias. Kelly struggled in ’10. MORE #MLB
Kelly could be better in NL than AL East. Rizzo at pos (1B) that is easy to fill. Fuentes high ceiling, no sure thing. #Padres #Red Sox #MLB
Not what you want to hear when you are giving up a player of AGon’s level.
of course, Theo could have just signed Mark “Adrian Gonzalez” Texeira 2 years ago without giving up any prospects.
# RhapsodyInBlue December 4th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
ruby and joeboy aren’t the same person they just carpool.
————————————
nice….
those 3 jumped all over me last night about the AG trade to Bos…..why don’t you join them in that circle jerk
“Kelly could be better in NL than AL East.”
————–
who pays these people?
of course he’ll be better in SD than in the AL East. Does that mean he’s going to be great? No!
Ask Brad Penny what he thought of the AL East vs the NL. Or any of the others who left Boston as scrub relievers and played significant roles in winning the World Series for SF last season.
GB-
Glad you’re not being too lofty in your expectations.
Only 6, huh ?
hapsodyInBlue December 4th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
ruby and joeboy aren’t the same person they just carpool.
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No doubt, they share the same seatbelt and brain cell.
Heyman
one competing exec on #padres potential pickups: “rizzo is the safest and best prospect.” lefty hitter, 21, who hit 25 HRs in ’10 about 1 hour ago via web
rival on casey kelly, 21: “a terrific athlete,” but report is “mixed.” down year in double-a. #padres, #redsox
MTU December 4th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
GB-
Glad you’re not being too lofty in your expectations.
Only 6, huh ?
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Hey!!! It’s not my money, and I have the Yankees credit card.
# GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
hapsodyInBlue December 4th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
ruby and joeboy aren’t the same person they just carpool.
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No doubt, they share the same seatbelt and brain cell.
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dope
BD-
You can thank Lucky Lucchino for Tex.
If it wasn’t for his big fat trap Tex might be in Boston.
Thank you Lucky for being a Levine clone and sending Tex our way.
Much appreciated.
Doreen December 4th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Thanks for the updates, pat and Pat M.
Nice that the Yankees got the housework done before going on their business trip!************
Or maybe Cash was worried about rappeling tomorrow morning, if he didn’t have those 2 on board.
“Instead, the tenor in Red Sox nation is just joy.
When you trade for a player like Adrian Gonzalez the fanbase should be divided to a certain degree, but they are not.”
Because they realize the true value of their players and it differs greatly from the Baseball America/Law/Gammons scouting reports.
Hoyer must feel confident in his job security.
MTU,
yeah, i never really knew what exactly went down with the Tex dealings and if Mark would have ever signed with Boston or if it was just leverage.
But if Theo is a genius for getting Gonzalez (and I believe it was a tremendous, tremendous deal for Boston), then what does that make Cashman for getting Tex without giving up any prospects?
Even Keith Law who is in love with Red Sox prospects: Padres lose proposed Gonzalez deal
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....%3d5882781
Anyone have insider to post a snippet?
Honestly, based on this trade..I wish the Yankees could obtain Upton with the type of talent Boston gave up. Plus, we even have ML ready OF players that could be expendable in a package. I prefer a trade for Upton than signing Crawford to a huge contract. I can dream I guess…
BD-
Cash swooped in like an Eagle at the last moment grabbing Tex gently in his Talons.
Just like he’s gonna do with cc.
Rival executives were not mixed, they were laughing at the soon to be ex-GM, Hoyer.
Any SD fans out there by any chance, love to hear there take, that is, if they are over the shock at the disaster that Hoyer accomplished.
BD,
Haven’t you been reading this board? Teixeira is a disappointment.
I do not understand this fascination with Justin Upton.
This is a guy ARI does not have to move,, if you come asking, you will not like the cost.
Forget it, and forget Upton unless Towers is the guy asking to move him.
Fuentes .700 OPS outfielder in A ball, Rizzo a sub .850 OPS first basemen in AA, and Casey Kelly a 5 ERA pitcher in AA.
If Padres goal was to have cost controlled players they did well, since they will never have to pay a major leaue salary to any of these guys as they bust out.
Worse prospects than Rizzo at 1st have put up better seasons than he did at a higher level. You look at guys like Smoak and other 1st base prospects, these guys are OPSing .900 and 1 in the minors and they come up and struggle. Rizzo OPS .800 in the minors, he is going to come up and do nothing. None of these guys are going to play for the Padres in the next 2 years. OR ever.
Nick in SF December 4th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
“Crawford, Granderson, Upton is the BEST OF in all of MLB.”
You forgot the part of the OF where the bullpen is, with Soria warming up to be Mo’s setup guy!
**********
Or Marmol
Towers is the one that announced that he would listen.
The “Hoyer better put his life on this package because his career depends on it” is laughable.
Bill Smith got NOTHING for his prized ace. Even worse, he passed over 2 elite packages from NY and BOS because he got greedy and ended up with 3 nobodies. Yet his job status is fine.
What did Philly get for Lee? Atlanta traded half a season of Tex for Kotchman.
Hoyer’s career will not be defined by this one move. He can always rationalize it to his owner saying he got the #1, 4 and 6 ranked prospects in their system and couldn’t find better offers. If he fields a good team in SD in the future, he will be fine. Simiarily, he could have gotten Buchholz for Gonzalez, but if he didn’t win, he would still be canned.
There are far less consequences on Hoyer for this package than people think. That being said, he gave Theo a sweetheart deal. However, it’s not like his career is in peril if it doesn’t work out.
Doreen
My brother in law used to teach at Twain and lives in that area. I’ve driven past the Argonaut but have never been.
GB7,
I saw those anti-Tex posts.
I might have to stop trying to convince all my Sox-fan friends that most Yankee fans don’t feel entitled to anything and everything.
73% of the innings that the Rays bullpen pitched last year are gone. That’s significant considering they won’t have Crawford as part of their offense. That means that starters may have to throw another 1-2 inning longer without protection of a bullpen and less of an offense.
As for Boston, let’s see if ownership is will to pay Gonzalez the kind of money seen by Teixeira or Ryan Howard which his agent will expect in a long term deal or test the market next winter. Boston may insist on an injury clause in his contract like they have others. All 5 of their starting rotation plus Papelbon will need to have career years. There wasn’t pitching help in their farm system before and even less now. Nothing to use at the 7/31 trading deadline
Nice to see Jerkface, LGY, etc. not spin this like SD did well… lot of that going on this morning, talking about how the Sox system is now thin and they gave up a lot for a rental and now have no flexibility, etc. Who cares? They gave up a light package for a superstar. A package that was laughed at on this board just a day earlier.
BD, this board is full of jewels like that…or, full of something.
TD213
The problem is that,
this statement: “If he fields a good team in SD in the future, he will be fine.”
is largely dependent on this statement: “That being said, he gave Theo a sweetheart deal.”
Those other teams all still competed at high levels after those bad trades. Hard to believe the Padres will unless this trade turns out to be a success. Hence, the comments about his career in San Diego hinging on this package.
“A package that was laughed at on this board just a day earlier.”
lol Actually the package the Padres ended up getting is WORSE than the packages that were thrown around yesterday.
At least those packages had Iglasisus, Kalish, etc. in addition to the guys they got. Padres got hosed. They might as well have tried to win the West and taken the draft picks.
TD213,
do you know anything about the players the Phillies got for Lee?
I’m not saying your point is wrong (though I understand both sides of the argument and think they’re valid.)
I’ve just heard several times that the Phillies got nothing for Lee and I disagree. I think the package was better than this one.
LGY,
From your Insider link:
After a year of rumors surrounding Adrian Gonzalez’s eventual destination, it appears that Theo Epstein and the Red Sox finally landed their big catch, with sources reporting that Boston will add the superstar first baseman in return for three minor leaguers.
Gonzalez to Boston is an obvious fit, which is one of the reasons his arrival in Beantown would be one of the least surprising blockbusters in recent memory. Third baseman Adrian Beltre has been courted very heavily, and with the team retaining the ability to move Kevin Youkilis back across the hot corner, the Red Sox would be nuts to turn down Gonzalez at this price. Youkilis is merely adequate defensively at third, a downgrade from Beltre’s sensational leatherwork, but he instantly gives Boston the best-hitting third baseman in baseball.
Playing in San Diego — a team that has received national attention in the last few years mostly for the messy sale of the team due to John Moores’ divorce and the team blowing the division to the Giants last year — Gonzalez has been somewhat lost in the shuffle. He has hit .288/.400/.530 and averaged 35-36 home runs over the past couple of years, and while those numbers don’t instantly hit you as being in the stratosphere of superstardom, he’s also played in a rather lousy hitters’ park. Petco Park is the 21st-century version of the Houston Astrodome, the monstrosity that led to a number of star hitters over the years — from Jeff Bagwell to Glenn Davis (pre-injury) to Jim Wynn — being desperately underrated in their primes. Gonzalez will face tougher pitching in the AL East, but it won’t be the park that hurts his numbers.
In Boston, ZiPS projects Gonzalez to hit .316/.407/.569 with 34 home runs, 114 RBI, and an OPS+ of 152. With those numbers, the Red Sox would finally get a feared left-handed slugger to make up for David Ortiz’s decline in recent years. And A-Gon will get some MVP votes and, hopefully, a new nickname that’s not based on the dreary first letter of first name/first syllable of last name combination.
Everything comes with a price, and Gonzalez is no exception. His salary is no big deal, just a hair over $6 million for the 2011 season. To put that figure in perspective, he is likely to be paid a similar amount to newly signed Marlins catcher John Buck. That won’t be the case for long, and if the Red Sox are smart and this deal goes through, they will quickly offer Gonzalez a five- or six-year deal that easily goes into the nine-figure range.
In return for giving up a bargain-basement Gonzalez, two top draft picks, a shot at a wide-open NL West and perhaps the last of the team’s short-term credibility, the Padres would receive Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo and Reymond Fuentes. Kelly, a solid defensive shortstop who the Red Sox decided to use as a pitcher thanks to a poor bat, is a good pitching prospect, primarily known for solid control and command. While he has good stuff, he was quite hittable in Portland, despite the Red Sox being very careful with him. Rizzo’s a solidly built first baseman who hit for more power than expected in 2010 and has recovered extremely well from a case of Hodgkin’s lymphoma. Rizzo would be a must-include from the perspective of the Padres and will do his best to replace Gonzalez — probably full-time in 2012 — but will be hard-pressed to be more than a 15-homer hitter in Petco. The last player the Red Sox would receive is Fuentes, Carlos Beltran’s cousin and the 28th pick in the 2010 draft. Fuentes is a player to watch and has great tools, but he’s not a finished product, so while the upside is tremendous, his arrival in the majors is by no means guaranteed.
While I like this proposed trade a lot from the perspective of the Red Sox, I’m a bit disappointed in what San Diego would get back. The prospects are good, though nowhere near the equivalent of the notorious Bartolo Colon trade that sent Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Cliff Lee to Cleveland. In San Diego’s case, while they weren’t in a position to keep Gonzalez after the 2011 season, his low price for the season and San Diego’s position in the division meant that the team really should have been overwhelmed by an offer to move one of the franchise’s best players ever. They also would have received the Red Sox’s first-rounder (the team is not likely to have a protected pick) and a sandwich pick.
The intangible matter that can’t be overlooked is simply the credibility of the team. While fans would have been upset either way, it would have been an easier pill to swallow if the Padres had traded Gonzalez after a second winning season before he was due to make at least $20 million. Now the Padres, if they don’t have Gonzalez, essentially have to go on with the fire sale, and a disgruntled fanbase is also likely to wave goodbye to another of 2010′s stars — Heath Bell and his 1.93 ERA and 47 saves. The Padres get some quality players here, but they’re also treading closely to being the West Coast Florida Marlins, a team that gleefully traded its stars at the first possible opportunity and watched its loyal fans become disinterested.
Dan Szymborski is a writer for Baseball Think Factory who also contributes to ESPN Insider.
Doreen,
As always, well put.
“They might as well have tried to win the West and taken the draft picks.”
————–
It’s an interesting thought.
Padres talent is now far inferior to the Giants, Dodgers, and Rockies. In addition, their pitchers are due for some regression after all the innings they threw last year.
Padres will finish in last place. Hoyer will be fired in 2 years and go back to the Boston FO. Consider this a “Thank You” gift from Hoyer to Theo.
Jackson
Thanks for the whole thing!
I thought that was from Law since I followed the link from his twitter page but I must have been mistaken
what other team was out there that needed someone at first and could pony up that kind of money? The Cubs? They have an awful system
Beltre down in the DR at Ortiz’s golf Tournament said yesterday he would love to go back to Boston and today is hearing his former teammates comment on how excited they are to get Gonzalez. Can you say AWKWARD?
I’m not 100% about this (I dont follow Keith Law’s every word), but this is the first time I’ve heard him say that Casey Kelly wasn’t a sure-fire front of the rotation starter.
I happen to agree that he’s very risky and his stock has dropped because he completely disappointed last season, but still.
BD,
My bad. I was mistaken, that wasn’t from Law.
Padres and Royals should be contracted from MLB.
Why are we wasting our time with teams that have no interest in winning games or spending the money from revenue sharing to keep homegrown players or field a contending team?
I do understand SD not being able to pay the guy 8/180. But it’s sad that the team has zero chance of keeping perhaps the most popular player to ever play for SD.
Zero chance. And then they get a poor return for him.
LGY,
Np
LGY,
no problem – and it makes more sense now.
I do agree with that Insider post.
I’m not sure what’s more surprising, that SD traded AG for .50 on the dollar, or that I agree with an ESPN article.
BD, because Kelly is no longer a Boston prospect. The deal is done and he got the word from his front office at Fenway to speak the truth and trash away.
well, congrats Boston…. welcome back to playoff contention. I hope to have my Adrian Gonzalez voodoo doll soon, and will be poking on its shoulder for sure.
sorry to all my friends back in San Diego. tickets were $8 last year. this year they won’t be worth the paper they’re printed on.
I hope the Yanks can seal up this deal with the Captain, get Andy back for an encore, and sign Cliff Lee to a deal that isn’t WAY out of line.
GB7,
that was my initial thought.
If anyone knows, I’d be interested in knowing who wrote that Insider article. It’s been a while since I read something that made sense from ESPN.
nevermind – found it:
“By Dan Szymborski
Baseball Think Factory”
now it makes sense – it wasn’t an ESPN writer. that’s why it was worth reading.
“But it’s sad that the team has zero chance of keeping perhaps the most popular player to ever play for SD’
Tony Gwynn.
I hope Arod read the ESPN Blog stating that Youk is the best hitting 3rd baseman in baseball. I would blow it up in large print and put it on Arod’s locker so he can be reminded every day.
““But it’s sad that the team has zero chance of keeping perhaps the most popular player to ever play for SD’
Tony Gwynn.”
——————
true
but don’t underestimate how popular Gonzalez, born in San Diego and of Mexican descent, was to a community made up by quite a few Mexicans and others of Mexican descent.
He embodied a large part of the San Diego fan base more than Tony Gwynn or any other player had. And he was starting to become an elite player.
“I hope Arod read the ESPN Blog stating that Youk is the best hitting 3rd baseman in baseball.”
—————
I saw that too.
I respect Youk and I do feel he’s among the best hitting 3b in the game (following the move), but it’s not a clear case.
There are plenty of good hitters at 3b and obviously ARod could easily reclaim the top spot.
BD (Boston Dave),
Minn seems to have no problem competing every year. Would you rather go to a socialist system like football. The level of play is a joke
Triple,
I responded on the new thread – but yes, Minny has done an excellent job keeping their team in contention.
The team to fear in the AL east is not the Red Sox, nor Rays but the Blue Jays.
To me the A-gon trade and the absolutely minor haul of prospects was due to the Yankees being completely out of the running. I have noticed over the years that when the Yankee Tax is not operative, a GM will have to settle for what he can get.
new post: Jeter deal id done!!!!!