Berkman finds a home in St. Louis
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2010 
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Obviously this day was all about Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera. Frankly, the past week has been all about Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera.
Outside of the Yankees universe, though, another familiar face signed this afternoon.
Lance Berkman settled on a one-year deal with the Cardinals. He’ll reportedly make $8 million and play left field. According to the Post-Dispatch: “The physical, combined with Berkman’s weight loss this off-season, assured the club he could again handle an everyday role in the field.”
Risky? Sure. But as Jon Heyman pointed out on Twitter, in two of the past three years a team won the World Series with Pat Burrell in left field. Just saying, that’s all.
Yankee fans never seemed quite sold on Berkman, but he was an unquestioned favorite in the clubhouse. He players liked him, and the media loved him. He’s a good guy. I wish him nothing but the best.
A few other notes for the day…
• To finalize the Adrian Gonzalez trade, the Red Sox have until 2 p.m. Sunday to work out a contract extension.
• Word is the Blue Jays are making a push for Zack Greinke. Not sure he would make Toronto a legitimate threat, but Greinke would make that an awfully good rotation.
• Former Yankees reliever/spot starter Jeff Karstens has re-signed with the Pirates. He’ll make more than a million bucks. Good for him. Another guy I always enjoyed talking to.
• For the Astros, it made sense to let Berkman go, but it’s going to be awkward seeing him in the National League Central.
Associated Press photo
He will be missed (by Astros fans).
And Erica.
Berkman’s internal contradictions tore our World Series dreams down.
I’m glad that Berkman found a good deal. I’m just happy that the Cardinals didn’t cave and give him an option year.
I wonder how much of George is dancing in Hal’s head right about now. Did the Red Sox do all Yankee fans a favor by daring to show interest in Mo? Is it possible Hal drove Cash to the airport and said, “caps off, go get ‘em”.
One part of me thinks it’s sign Cliff Lee and head for the sidelines with the exception of a few minor fill-ins like a cheap loogy and a bench piece.
The other part of me thinks we’re going to see a possessed Cashman, stalking Crawford and who knows who else. Maybe a three-team extravaganza.
I love this time of the year.
Lance seemed ok. tought to make a judgement on so short of a time. I thought he was a better fit than kearns,IMO
Reading through some posts on Pete Abe’s blog and some moron said that Adrian has a better glove then Tex. That is a moronic comment, right?
I am glad he found a spot too. He’s a good guy. I wish him well.
AG is an excellent first-baseman. I don’t know who is better than who or how important it is to say that.
Can someone at least explain to me why in the world the Friars did this deal? From someone who doesn’t have a great minor league prospect mind, it looks like the Padres really got took. Is that the case or not?
Can someone at least explain to me why in the world the Friars did this deal? From someone who doesn’t have a great minor league prospect mind, it looks like the Padres really got took. Is that the case or not?
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They pretty much got took. They got no player who is currently living up to their projection. They got a bunch of ‘maybe’ and ‘ifs’. At the very least with guys like Smoak, Montero, et al, you can point to their minor league performance and say: ‘Look, these guys were one of the top 5 hitters in all of minor league baseball’.
Casey Kelly has never put up a pitching season like Hughes or Buchholz did in the minors. Rizzo is matched by ‘not elite’ prospects the yankees have such as Laird and Adams.
Fuentes is simply 100% projection. you have to hope his tools pan out.
The fact Boston was able to get Adrian without giving up Iglesias (who doesnt even have a bat) or Kalish in addition to the guys they gave up is what makes the whole trade very fishy.
Wow, the “cave” thing has been beat to death……one thing when its funny the first time,completely different situation here, when it never was.
Thanks Jerkface. This is what I thought. Freaking sucks. OH WELL. Go get Lee and all is fine. Pitching wins in October. Wild card undoubtedly comes out of the East again and then we go from there with Lee and CC leading New York to #28
“The fact Boston was able to get Adrian without giving up Iglesias (who doesnt even have a bat) or Kalish in addition to the guys they gave up is what makes the whole trade very fishy.”
He might as well have taken the picks and at least tried to contend this year. Hoyer got hosed in a big way. Hope some ex-Yankee execs out there give us that big a discount on a superstar.
I love how many guys on here really know farm systems…..seemingly, there are about 15-20 posters on this site that know literally every player in every teams system and they can tell you exactly what the player can and can’t do and basically how they will pan out.
Its amazing how many talent scouts there are with so much time to blog that you wonder how they see so many minor league games.
Figures, Berkman loses weight AFTER he leaves the Yankees….I guess Elvis has given up his peanut butter and banana sandwiches…
The Cave is a good song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KkUeRPjc-Y
Its amazing how many talent scouts there are with so much time to blog that you wonder how they see so many minor league games.
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It truly is amazing what technology has done to the sport hasn’t it? Putting all these scouting reports online, game reports, tools assessments, and then the ability to watch a bunch of minor league games on MiLB.tv.
Truly amazing.
Fat or slim, Berkman played well for the Yankees and did a great job in the postseason. Wasn’t his fault that the pitching and bats went dead.
The package we gave to PIT for Marte/Nady was better than the package Boston gave up for Gonzalez.
The package we gave up for Granderson was much better than what they gave up for Gonzalez.
Atlanta got better value from us for Vazquez than Hoyer did for Gonzalez.
Carlo December 4th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Wow, the “cave” thing has been beat to death……one thing when its funny the first time,completely different situation here, when it never was.
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Give it a rest. It was a joke because of the 200 times it was said on here about the Yankees and Jeter “caving” on every bogus news release.
“Rizzo is matched by ‘not elite’ prospects the yankees have such as Laird and Adams”
Not entirely true. Rizzo was getting it done in AA at age 20. Laird was in the Sallie League at age 20 and Adams was in college.
With all the speculation swirling about Carl Crawford, time perhaps for me to stake out the Dell Taco (the fast-food place) in Anaheim, near the stadium. Its the place where Boras met with Torii Hunter when no one was looking.
I liked Berkman but would have liked Matsui or Damon all year instead…Berkman was Cashman’s answer to the stupidity of signing Nick Johnson……Cashman: Let’s get Lee and Crawford….put Crawford in RF and DH Swisher….Posada can still back-up catch for 50 games and DH as well sometimes, plus we can also sit Gardner or Grandy vs. tough lefties and put Crawford in LF, Swish in RF….I just think our offense needs someone like Crawford since Jeter may keep declining….and the Sox are going to have to pay Gonzalez like $20 million per…..their payroll has to be getting up there close to $200 if they want to sign Werth/Crawford as well…….
I don’t think the Pads got hosed. From
all reports, Kelly has a lot of talent and Rizzo was a major piece for the Padres.
just because they didn’t get the Sox top prospects doesn’t mean they got hosed. It means Jed Hoyer, who knows as much as anyone about the Sox farm, grabbed guys he thought could impact the Pads in the next 2-3 years.
As far as A-Gon vs. Tex, they both have great gloves. I thinkA-Gon is better defender of the FB line and Tex of the gap ‘tween him and Cano. Slight advantage to Tex bc of being a switch hitter but A-Gon has a higher avg and hits to all parts of the field they are about as equal as they come.
4time – since u are so sure all those packages are so much better than what boston gave up (which by the way, other than their names I’m sure u know nothing about), why don’t we do a “where are they now” account of each of the 3 aforementioned deals:
Atlanta – melky (dfa’d), vizcaino (minors), dunn (middling lefty reliever)……how is this package better than anything?
Pittsburgh – tabata and ohlendorf……eh, neither is all that special
Detroit – cashman got fleaced…..but pitchers are always valued more than position players in trades so comparing jackson to kelly isn’t actually fair
Not entirely true. Rizzo was getting it done in AA at age 20. Laird was in the Sallie League at age 20 and Adams was in college.
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You’re right I didn’t take into account age, but for a first basemen he is still putting up not elite numbers.
Lars Anderson at the same age was OPSing 100 points higher in AA while striking out 8% less.
Why would u tell me to give it a rest? I commented on it once, yet read it 500 times today. Doesn’t make much since to me, but not gonna deal with it anyway.
Joey – if kelly and rizzo weren’t bostons top prospects, who are they? Iglesias is a hype machine job who even gammons has said can’t hit. Leathermen who can’t hit at short were valuable about 20 years ago.
@Jerkface The Friars did not get took. They gave themselves to the Red Sox ready and willingly. Jed Hoyer was a Red Sox plant the entire time. Everyone knew that Gonzalez would get traded to the Red Sox when Hoyer was planted in the Friars’ front office. However, everyone including myself probably did not know it would take this long for him to do so.
edit: Everyone knew that Gonzalez would get traded to the Red Sox for a bag of balls…
I liked Berkman but would have liked Matsui or Damon all year instead…Berkman was Cashman’s answer to the stupidity of signing Nick Johnson……Cashman: Let’s get Lee and Crawford….put Crawford in RF and DH Swisher….Posada can still back-up catch for 50 games and DH as well sometimes, plus we can also sit Gardner or Grandy vs. tough lefties and put Crawford in LF, Swish in RF….I just think our offense needs someone like Crawford since Jeter may keep declining….and the Sox are going to have to pay Gonzalez like $20 million per…..their payroll has to be getting up there close to $200 if they want to sign Werth/Crawford as well………
PLus, can we really expect Posada to be healthy enough to play 130 games even at mostly DH…..the offense was sooo inconsistent last year especially vs. mediocre pitching and everyone is now 1 year older, we need another top hitter like Crawford!!!!
Of course Greinke would make the Jays a legitimate threat. I think they are one anyway, with that pitching.
I liked Sir Lancelot- good luck to him in St. Louis.
Can someone explain how the buyout works?
The fix was in on this trade for a long time.
Can’t believe people thought Hoyer would “demand” Buchholz and such. He gave Theo a sweetheart deal, just like people should have expected. People were too dramatic proclaiming that Hoyer’s career is on the line and he has to get good prospects and such. The fix was in. They gave up nothing for him.
@Yank1 After Hoyer’s career with the Padres is over, he has his job waiting for him on the Red Sox.
Wave,
The deal averages to $17 million for the first three years, which includes a $3 million buyout in the fourth year. If Jeter doesn’t exercise the $8 million option in 2014, he will make $51 million. If Jeter exercises the $8 million option, he loses the $3 million buyout and is guaranteed $56 million over the life of the contract. But Jeter can increase his fourth-year salary by reaching some incentives. That is where the Yankees and Jeter got creative.
http://www.myyesnetwork.com/16.....ar_options
Can someone explain how the buyout works?
*****
I’m pretty sure Jeter already picked up his player option
“@Yank1 After Hoyer’s career with the Padres is over, he has his job waiting for him on the Red Sox.”
No doubt. The Kevin McHale of MLB.
Carlo-
What I’m trying to say is everyone is making a big deal about the Pads not getting Iglesias, but maybe the Pads organization values a 1B with more upside than a SS with no bat.
Maybe they value a pitcher with upside over an OF prospect.
I feel like if the trade was Iglesias, Kalish, & Fuentes, people would complain about no Kelly.
What I’m trying to say is everyone is making a big deal about the Pads not getting Iglesias, but maybe the Pads organization values a 1B with more upside than a SS with no bat.
Maybe they value a pitcher with upside over an OF prospect.
I feel like if the trade was Iglesias, Kalish, & Fuentes, people would complain about no Kelly.
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They should have got Kalish and / or Iglesias WITH the 3 players they already got. Thats the point!
Thanks, Yank 1.
So the buyout isn’t what is normally viewed as a buyout, since it isn’t buying anything out. It is just an extra payment if Jeter elects not to exercise the fourth year option. Right?
I like Jack Curry.
I like Jack Curry also.
I don’t think you can compare hitters that play in parks that have the same dimensions as Fenway with parks with 330 foot foul lines an 408 foot center fields. They teach their hitters to hit to left to use the short distances.
The park in Trenton is strictly a pitcher’s park as is Scranton.
To put the contract in simple terms, even if Jeter hits .150 for the duration of the deal, he is still guarantee 4/$56 if he wants it.
So the buyout isn’t what is normally viewed as a buyout, since it isn’t buying anything out. It is just an extra payment if Jeter elects not to exercise the fourth year option. Right?
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Thats generally called a buyout. An incentive for Jeter not to pickup the option / a payment for the player if a team does not exercise an option.
I’ve always been a Berkman fan, it’s nice to see him land with a good team. I hope he can play a reasonable LF and regain his hitting prowess.
jerkface-
I always thought a buyout was a team option.
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman :there is optimism the gonzalez trade will happen. but on the of chance it doesn’t, #padres will keep him and won’t field offers. #redsox
Does this not confirm that Hoyer was sending him to the Sox from the get go. This deal reeks
I always thought a buyout was a team option.
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They can be included on player options as well. Players have in the past opted to ‘take the buyout’ and negotiate a new deal.
OK, thanks.
Just for example Wave, there may be a 2 mil buyout and a player option for 6 mil, but the player performs like a 12 mil player they may take the buyout (free money) and try to get a deal elsewhere.
“You’re right I didn’t take into account age, but for a first basemen he is still putting up not elite numbers”
True, but they aren’t elite from Laird either, as a corner infielder/outfielder and they’re non existent in the case of Adams. Not saying Rizzo is elite, but finding success at the level he did well in advance of the other two probably puts him well ahead of Laird and Adams in terms of prospect status.
What would really be interesting is if Jeter takes the $3 million and then tells the Yankees I want a new multi year deal.
Can’t imagine that going over well.
“What would really be interesting is if Jeter takes the $3 million and then tells the Yankees I want a new multi year deal.”
On the off-chance that Jeter is worth more than $5M in 2014, why wouldn’t he, unless he made the incentive earnouts?
True, but they aren’t elite from Laird either, as a corner infielder/outfielder and they’re non existent in the case of Adams. Not saying Rizzo is elite, but finding success at the level he did well in advance of the other two probably puts him well ahead of Laird and Adams in terms of prospect status.
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I never said Laird was elite. Or Adams, my point is he is putting up comparable performance to C or B list prospects that the yankees have, and doing it at first base. Its cool that he is younger than them, but he isn’t great shakes. Another guy that has to keep building on his current performance or else he will end up Adam Laroche.
For a player the caliber of Adrian Gonzalez, with the contract Adrian had being so cheap, and the prospect of signing him to a longer deal or getting two picks, there should have been more to this package.
One of the top 3 pitchers in baseball will always yield a larger haul in a trade than a 1st baseman who is maybe 5th or 6th best at his position… Especially when the 1st baseman has a bum shoulder. All else being equal (free agency looming).
9:26pm: Heyman tweets that the Red Sox might be willing to make the trade without signing Gonzalez to an extension. They might actually prefer to just talk about contract parameters now, then see how his surgically repaired shoulder holds up in Spring Training.
In the off chance that the trade does not happen, the Padres would keep Gonzalez and not field offers.
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Huh? It’s make a trade with the Red Sox or nothing?
Yeah that sounds kosher.
“On the off-chance that Jeter is worth more than $5M in 2014, why wouldn’t he, unless he made the incentive earnouts?”
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That’s true and why from the beginning I didn’t want the Yankees to include any sort of option. It just has the good possibility of being too messy for both sides.
Especially when the 1st baseman has a bum shoulder
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You know, maybe this had something to do with it. But I’d argue that Gonzalez is around Top 5.
You have Pujols, Tex, Cabrera, Votto, Gonzalez and Fielder as the kind of ‘best of the best’. Of those, Pujols, Tex, and Gonzalez are excellent glove men. And Gonzalez hits in the worst park.
LGY-
If that’s the way it turns out, the deal will have worked out for the Yanks and no harm done.
That’s not what worries me. Oh well. I sure hope Jeter turns out to be a phenomenon of nature.
Wave,
Good point. I am not really thinking clearly on this right now.
Basically if Jeter is in a position to take the opt out that is a good sign he has played well for the past 3 years.
That is what you’re saying, right?
“For a player the caliber of Adrian Gonzalez, with the contract Adrian had being so cheap, and the prospect of signing him to a longer deal or getting two picks, there should have been more to this package”
Maybe, but the circumstances weren’t much different than the Teixeira to Braves deal, and based on the way that worked out, it’s highly unlikely such a score was going to be duplicated.
LGY-
Yes.
Mell December 4th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
“You’re right I didn’t take into account age, but for a first basemen he is still putting up not elite numbers”
True, but they aren’t elite from Laird either, as a corner infielder/outfielder and they’re non existent in the case of Adams. Not saying Rizzo is elite, but finding success at the level he did well in advance of the other two probably puts him well ahead of Laird and Adams in terms of prospect status
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Adams is not an outfielder. He’s a 2nd baseman.
it’s highly unlikely such a score was going to be duplicated.
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Right, but they didn’t even come close. Which is worrisome. And the new tweet suggests they only dealt with the Red Sox.
” I only regret that I have but one life to give for my former employer! ”
-Jed Hoyer, American patriot
“Adams is not an outfielder. He’s a 2nd baseman.”
Never suggested otherwise. Simply suggested he never put up those type of numbers Rizzo or Laird has.
“Right, but they didn’t even come close. Which is worrisome. And the new tweet suggests they only dealt with the Red Sox”
Well, we have no idea how close they came, but if indeed the 2nd part is true, that’s troubling.
Never suggested otherwise. Simply suggested he never put up those type of numbers Rizzo or Laird has.
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Look at the numbers, Adams has put up numbers much better than Rizzo.
.286 .373 .443 .816 A-A+
.309 .393 .507 .900 AA
.281 .360 .498 .858 A+
Wave
How do you feel about the deal now that it is finalized?
” Give me Kelly, Rizzo, and Fuentes for A-Gon or give me death!”
-Jed Hoyer, founding father
Now of course, Adams was older, but still. Adams actually OPS’d 900! Slugged 500! Maybe Rizzo could do that… you know since he is a 1st basemen.
Yankee 6-part offseason plan progressing as hoped.
Girardi re-signed.
Jeter and Mariano re-signed.
Focus now on top of the rotation addition: Lee
Then will be addition to the pen – solidifying bridge to Mariano.
Next will be a review of OF and bench options.
Finally there will be signing a veteran starter: Andy
From a Marchand article. Glad to hear he’s such a mercenary.
“The wild card is an unforeseen team coming out of nowhere and beating the Yankees financially. One baseball official who has worked very closely with Lee said the left-hander will take the offer that is the highest.
When this official was asked, “So you are saying if the Nationals offer one dollar more than the Yankees, he would go to Washington?” the person said he thought Lee would then pitch in Washington, D.C.”
Mell December 4th, 2010 at 11:01 pm
“Adams is not an outfielder. He’s a 2nd baseman.”
Never suggested otherwise. Simply suggested he never put up those type of numbers Rizzo or Laird has.
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Perhaps comparing Adams with the stellar middle infielders in the Boston system would be a little more appropriate.
I like Berkman, I find it hard to believe fat Elvis lost weight already ?
“Now of course, Adams was older, but still. Adams actually OPS’d 900! Slugged 500! Maybe Rizzo could do that… you know since he is a 1st basemen.”
When Adams OPS’s .900 over more than 1/4 of a season, you’ll have a reasonable point.
When Adams OPS’s .900 over more than 1/4 of a season, you’ll have a reasonable point.
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Maybe Rizzo could OPS .900 over 1/4th of a season.
“Perhaps comparing Adams with the stellar middle infielders in the Boston system would be a little more appropriate”
I suppose, but am not sure that’s possible as the only MI prospect I’m aware of in the Boston system is an all glove, not much bat Cuban kid.
Also be nice to see Adams back in good health. Very unfortunate injury he suffered. Numbers suggest he’s capable of being a nice top of the order bat in the bigs.
“Maybe Rizzo could OPS .900 over 1/4th of a season”
Maybe he has?
And even discussin Rizzo vs Laird/Adams is ignoring Rizzo vs Lars Anderson, who is in the red sox system and put up better numbers at the same age as Rizzo.
Maybe he has?
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According to First Inning, no.
You don’t OPS .900 over 40 games and then end up with an .815 OPS.
And there is nothing wrong with Rizzo as a baseball prospect, I just don’t think he should be part of a trifecta package for Adrian Gonzalez.
For Rizzo to amount to half of what Gonzalez has in the majors would be a miracle.
Gonzalez is damaged goods… Surgically repaired shoulder. Not sure when he will be able to play in 2011. The gave up 3 better than average prospects to oversee the shoulder rehab. If they don’t want to extend him… They will let him walk at end of season and get 2 compensation picks for their troubles.
Serious questions about bum shoulder.
I think for Gonzalez the Padres should get at least 1 prospect who kicks a lot of ass. They didn’t get 1.
“You don’t OPS .900 over 40 games and then end up with an .815 OPS”
Why not?
GMAN, as yankee fans we should all hope Adrian Gonzalez’s shoulder is a ruined mess of scar tissue and muscle damage.
All the reports I read state he will be ready by opening day though.
The player to be named later … Sean Coyle….?
10:34pm: The Red Sox suggested a six-year contract at some point during the negotiations according to Heyman (Twitter links), but they don’t want to do a contract on par with Mark Teixeira’s eight year, $180MM pact.
I hope Gonzalez is ok. I like to see the rivalry reinvigorated. It’s all good.
Heyman actually somewhat funny for a change
hearing now that at some point boston suggested a 6-year deal for gonzalez. #notsureifthatflies, #padres, #redsox 14 minutes ago via web
Why not?
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Well he didn’t first of all, but he’d have to OPS .730 for 120 games. Thats not a very good 1st baseman.
That shoulder is a problem…
Doesn’t Gonzalez know that he’s supposed to give the Sox a discount for the privilege of playing there……the brainwashing had better take hold soon……otherwise.the Sox.may have to proceed without the extension and hope his time in Boston next year is so magical that he will agree to their demands on a new contract.
“Well he didn’t first of all, but he’d have to OPS .730 for 120 games. Thats not a very good 1st baseman”
‘Cept that he did as evidenced by the .905 OPS in the 49 games after the all-star break in AA.
Anyways, who cares? Let’s just get Cliff Lee and the requisite bullpen and bench crowd and move on. Yankees should still be the better team.
Also, happy for Berkman…I’ve always liked him.and that should.be a good situation for him in St. louis…..he should help them.
“Also, happy for Berkman…I’ve always liked him.and that should.be a good situation for him in St. louis…..he should help them”
Thought he’d help an AL team more with the DH and all. I was a little surprised by St Louis.
Has Larry Lucchino barged into the room yet or is he still nursing a whisky at the bar waiting for his time to shine?
St. Louis.needs offense however they can get it….key is if Berkman can get in good enough shape to play ouffield again….probably not well but adequately. Im.just happy he got on somewhere that he’ll have a chance to win. He didn’t want to DH so im sure that played into it.
AGon apparently told one of the beat writers in San Diego he wanted an 8 year deal last year when the topic of extending him in SD was on the table.
If they can’t work out an extension by tomorrow will the Sox still make the trade……I bet they will.
Berkman found a home……well good for him
love to be a ball player that can’t hit right handed and so -so lefty handed….and can’t play the D at all ……still making $$$$ in MLB
Would be hilarious if Boston tries to lowball the guy
Stay Strong, Adrian. Better not give them a hometown deal. Tex-money,
jimcallisBA
Not at all. #RedSox gave up lot of talent for guy #Padres couldn’t re-sign @robisu: Did Boston “fleece” Pads? They keep Kalish and Iglesias.
Right about now Berkman would be a great softball player…..wish I was a baseball player instead of a Lineman
Haha Jim Callis proving once again that he’s a dope. The Red Sox gave up talent but not nearly enough for a guy like Gonzalez
AG is going to be huge in Bos…..
Jim Callis is not a dope. He’s just towing his company’s (Red Sox) line.
Lance Berkman isn’t going to win anyone anything…who cares
it’s toeing the line, NOT towing the line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line
# GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Gardner’s not going to have much value in any trade until he proves that he’s healthy and can hit.
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he has more trade value than any OFer they have on their team….
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” Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for the Red Sox. ”
- Jed Hoyer, American statesman
” Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for the Red Sox. ”
hehe
That line accurately describes all of MLB sans the Yankees
Nah, I think that Brett Gardner has a good amount of value in a trade, and I think they should trade him to the Royals for Zach Grienke along with Austin Romine and another prospect like David Adams.
Now that Jeter and Mo are off the offseason check list:
1) sign Cliff Lee 6 years, $125 million
2) Re-sign Andy Pettite 1 year, $11
3) Sign Carl Crawford 5 years $85 million
4) Trade for Russell Martin (Give Francisco Cervelli or something lower).
Martin’s a free agent.
Andy made 12 mil in 10…….will need to jump him a little
“We hold these truths to be self-evident…Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Red Sox Happiness.”
-Jed Hoyer, Founding Father
/amidoinitrite?
Mell,
You were right. The death of minorleaguesplits.com has really deterred my ability to talk smack about Boston’s prospects, but Rizzo still isn’t worth Adrian Gonzalez.
“You were right. The death of minorleaguesplits.com has really deterred my ability to talk smack about Boston’s prospects, but Rizzo still isn’t worth Adrian Gonzalez.”
You’re right that’s why two former #1 draft choices of the Sox went with him in the trade.
Time to eat some crow as the Yanks raise their offer from 15 million to 17 million for 3 years as opposed to my prediction that the club would pay Derek close to the 18.9 that was the averaged annual pay……At least they found a middle ground to work things out…..17 million is not 15 million however it’s not 18.9 million………I can’t wait for the arrows from Face, LGY , Rich in NJ, Wave the Hatman ……I’m certain there’s a few more but those wonderful lads will be the individuals who will take me to task…..At least it was prior to the Winter Meetings so maybe I’ll be spared a flogging in the village square for getting at least that portion right,,,, That and the 4th year option………I’m enjoying a California Brownie and watching a ” Charlie’s Angels marathon, so things aren’t that bad…….
Wow, what channel did you find a Carlie’s Angels marathon on ? Californis Brownies, yum……….
Time Warner Sluth channel…..I just happened to find it…….Eye Candy at it’s finest…..
Isnt the important thing Jeter is re-signed to a reasonable deal?? Couldn’t be more pleased.
A brownie to go with the eye candy ! Thanks for the channel tip.
“AG is an excellent first-baseman. I don’t know who is better than who or how important it is to say that.”
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People should understand that Teix has many skills at 1B, BUT… he does not have great range. We have seen him dive, or ‘fall on’ many shos for great plays, but we don’t see him range deep into the 1B-2B hole. Mattingly, who was also a RH glove, was excellent ranging to his right, but that is not Teix’s strength.
Defensive metrics don’t speak well to 1Bman’s because they are mostly about range. ‘Scooping’ and throwing are not in their equation, which are strengths for Teix.
So I would say that Teix is a very good 1Bman defensively… top 1/3rd of the pack. But he is not elite in the manner of Mattingly or Hernandez.
And if you watch a lot of games, I believe your eyes will tell you this also. You will simply never see Teix range deep in the hole.
Career MiLB totals:
Anthony Rizzo: .284 .354 .469 .823
Lars Anderson: .279 .372 .442 .814
——————————————
League totals:
Anthony Rizzo (AA – 20): .263 .334 .481 815
Lars Anderson (AA 20-22): .262 .359 .414 .774
Lars Anderson (AAA – 22): .262 .340 .428 768
Rizzo is younger, has slightly better overall stats, but is trending upwards, where Lars is trending downwards. Scouting reports have them similar, with Rizzo having a slightly better bat but Anderson having more patience (as seen by his better OBP but lesser overall OPS).
Casey Kelly MiLB totals:
.ERA WHIP H/9 HR/9 BB/9 SO/9
3.69 1.232 8.7 -0.7- -2.4- -7.3-
Not that impressive however….
he was drafted as a SS but converted to a pitcher in 2009, so those numbers represent a very raw pitcher.
Scouting Report: Athletic frame with smooth agility and a tremendous feel for pitching. Kelly was a two-way player in high school, excelling at both shortstop and as a pitcher. He was also a highly-touted quarterback recruit for Tennessee before signing with the Sox. Kelly split his first pro year in 2009 between pitching and hitting, showing elite pitching tools and mediocre offensive skills. In December 2009, Kelly made the decision to continue his career on the mound. Kelly’s pitching skills are quite advanced for his age, mixing in three plus pitches: a low 90s fastball, a hard 12-6 curveball, and a nice change. Early in his career, he demonstrated outstanding command, and control, but as his velocity has increased he has lost some touch on his fastball. Sound, smooth mechanics. Fastball has excellent downward movement, and generally sits between 90 and 93 mph, getting up to 96 mph on occasion. Many scouts project that he’ll sit in the 92-95 mph range after he fills out. Curveball has the potential to become a plus-plus wipeout pitch. It sits around 76-79 mph, but he tends to show it a little too much at times. Kelly’s changeup sits around 84 mph with a lot of sink. For the most part, he keeps the ball low in the zone, but he’s hittable when he leaves it up. He can also overuse his fastball. Very good mound presence. Kelly had the makings of an elite defensive shortstop before converting to pitching full time, so he should be an excellent pitcher defensively.
AG looks like a great pickup for the Sox. His CAREER OPS AWAY from Petco is .944!
He averages 160 games/yr and has basically improved every year.
He has as many HRs to LF as RF, and I believe he will MASH at Fenway.
Buenos Dias Sr. y Senoritas.
Next up => Cliff Lee.
Any one think we get him on any less than a 6 year deal ?
I don’t.
Pat M never gave us his super secret post-lunch spy update did he ?
I was hoping we’d get a clue on who might be offered for Swish, Joba, or Cervelli since they are being shopped.
Something is going on.
Plan B ? Preparation for cc, or Upton ?
It’s time to see how the Dominoes fall.
And I don’t mean Pizza.
The white hot, hot stove is about to heat up the Winter meetings.
It’s even too early for early birds and other insomniacs.
Good Morning, MTU.
I think Pat M’s luncheon during the week sometime, IIRC.
If Domino’s Pizza falls and no one is around to hear it, will it make a sound? Will anyone care?
I don’t believe if the Nationals offer $1 more than the Yankees that Cliff Lee will sign with the Nationals. I would think that a serious chance to make playoff money has to figure in the equation. I’d never say never, but it doesn’t look like the chance in Washington is as good as the chance in NY (or even Texas for that matter).
I hope they don’t have to trade Swisher. Who would play RF? Crawford is a LF, and I don’t think he would play elsewhere. I’d have mixed feelings about Joba, but perhaps a change of venue DOES do him good, but then they’d have even more holes in the bullpen. I don’t care one way or another about Cervelli. It’s too bad about Gardner’s wrist. I think it affects his value either way – whether they keep him or trade him. It’s too bad for Gardner, too, because he had taken off like a banshee to start off last year, and until he got HBP, he was staying fairly consistent.
The team could have a very different feel to it next season, just by switching up the outfield.
Doreen-
Good morning to you. I don’t know. Though I hike I have never heard a Pizza fall so I can’t tell you. I sure know I’d care though. I really like a good slice of Pizza.
Myself, I think it’s us vs. Texas.
I can’t see us coming away victorious with anything less than a six year offer.
It seems they don’t have to trade Swish but they are trying to find out what they might be able to get for him, and others.
I don’t have a problem with our current OF but I think the Yankees brass might.
“Lost” has said as much. He said the concern is greater towards GGBG. Perhaps they don’t think he’s gonna hold up long term.
Maybe, a little too much like Pillsbury.
Also, with cc on the market, and Upton up for grabs the Yankees might feel changes make sense.
And I think a change of scenery makes a lot of sense for Joba as well as the Yankees.
And one last thing Doreen since you’re here at the moment.
Don’t you think it’s a shame that so many fine people have been driven off the blog by the nonsense that sometimes goes on here ?
I know I do.
MTU -
Agree that Lee will take 6 years.
It’s too bad about Gardner, really. Maybe all the gritty, gutty stuff just takes a bigger toll that we’d hope.
I think it’s smart to shop guys to see what they might bring back, and I know they do have to be prepared in case Lee goes elsewhere. In that case, Swisher would bring back more than GGBG, I think.
I think it’s a darn shame. But it’s not the arguments and/or trolls that are driving people away. Been here over 4 years, and seen much arguing and trolling. That’s part and parcel of a blog. It’s the other stuff. I’m hesitant to post much anymore. I’d stop altogether but it’s a hard habit to break, and stuff happens (like with GB7 and SAS), that I want to acknowledge. I’m afraid to be free with my thoughts, though, anymore.
Interesting dialog in media today, Yanks have been focused on maintaining the team that they had last year while the dreaded Sox are already improving theirs.
If Sox upgrade with Gonzales and Crawford/Werth and have their infield stay healthy they are going to be a much better team then they were last year. They were hurt by both Youkalis and Pedroa (sp) being out for the most of the year.
Just goes back to my point, getting Lee alone isn’t going to do it. The Yanks really need to get Crawford also. Keeps him away for the Sox and gives us that A level player in the OF. Not getting Lee is pretty bad, there are already many questions with the Yankees pitching.
Doreen-
I know you have been thru your share. You’re one of the “originals” I believe.
I have too, as you know.
No problem with people disagreeing with each other. Passionately.
For me, it’s all the “Ad Hominem” attacks, and the disrespectful behavior that makes this place like a sewer at times.
When it gets like that is when many people hit the road, so to speak.
When a fine person, such as yourself, is uncomfortable speaking their mind then something is radically wrong here.
IMHO, The people who run this blog have been incedibly remiss in not trying harder to put a stop to it.
As you have so aptly pointed out here in the past. This place is about
a lot more than just baseball. It’s a community, and as such subjects
other than baseball have always been a part of it.
Things like Movies, books, food, hiking, travel and stories in general have IMO enriched most everyone.
We’ll see where it goes I guess.
If I’m ever gone you’ll know why.
Doreen
I agree with most of your points. I post far less than I used to. I’ve been in baseball for many years, followed the team since the early 60′s and coached Baseball for many years. What gets me is the attacks from others that always seem to know much more than you do, and that their point is always the only point.
Doreen, I forgot to add that usually the retoric esclates when someone makes a negative comment regarding a player or the team when they don’t perform. To me these guys are professionals, they get payed the big bucks and when they don’t do their job they deserve getting the heat back on them. That doesn’t make you less of a fan to bring it up. To me it’s just not acceptable to be striking out or hitting into a DP or not moving runners along like happens so often.
There would be less anger here if some folks didn’t just jump into their immediate defensive position with their posts and then the comments go back and forth and they escalate. I think the players themselves won’t defend their poor execution, so why should some posters do it for them?
The elite players don’t execute 70% of the time, so I don’t see how they deserve some of the grief they receive at times.
Criticism is legit. But the booing and hissing is quite embarrassing from the real fans’ perspectives.
Good Morning
Reading the particulars of Derek’s contact and may I say it is a PR masterpiece.
The creative handling of the 4th year allowed both sides to claim victory.
If Boston doesn’t do the Gonzalez deal, Theo may need the gorilla suit to get out of Fenway again. Sox fans are afraid this is going to turn into A-Rod 2.0 when the Sox balk over $5 million and the player goes elsewhere.
Gary -
As a wise poster here has stated a few times, it’s not ALWAYS bashing if you criticize a player, or a play.
Gary-
Did you know that numerous people here have been literally “stalked”
, and threatened ?
Did you also know that some people’s personal information has been
posted on the blog w/o their permission ?
Does that sound just like passionate disagreement, or something more to you ?
That’s the sort of craziness that should never, ever have become a part of this, or any blog.
Yet it happened. And the folks who run the show here claim they are powerless to stop it.
That ain’t good.
Hey. it’s their blog. If they wish to just throw up their hands and say
we’ve done all we can then I guess they’ll accept the consquences too.
Nobody expected the Red Sox to stay still did they. Gonzalez is a player they have long coverted but let’s put this into perspective. They trade for Gonzalez who is coming off of a shoulder injury, which makes him a bit of a risk.
While they add Gonzalez, they lose VMart who is a great hitter from both sides of the plate. By getting Gonzo, they have to move Youk back to 3rd. This means they are likely to lose Beltre.
So the net result is that they lose two solid bats — plus Beltre’s solid defense — to get Gonzalez. I am not sure that they have made themselves better since they have other holes to fill.
Sox still have a hole at SS unless they believe that Lowrie is the long term answer. Papi is a year older. Drew is injury prone. They have lost confidence in Ellsbury and he could be trade bait.
Salty is not a proven catcher. Varitek is at best a part time player whose best days are behind him.
I suspect Sox will make a run at Werth. I doubt they can snare Crawford. If they get Werth they plug a hole in LF and offset the loss of both Beltre and VMart’s bat.
In terms of pitching Sox have two front line starters in Lester and Buccholz. I think BEckett is starting to decline although he is capable of winning 14-15 games. He is more hittable though. The same is true of Dice-K and he is not without injury risk.
Their pen is weaker. They have lost faith in Paps and he struggled last year. Bard has a live arm but it remains to be seen if he is star closer.
Morning all….good to see you around Doreen.
I don’t think the Sox can afford to not do the deal for Gonzalez at this point. They have ready gotten their fanbase excited after the so so year they had last season where their interest waned. I think they will get a deal done today but if they don’t I think they may just have to go forward with the deal and hope they can work out an extension later.
MTU -
Just my 2 cents …
Above all else, trolls crave/need attention.
When they get it from the board, especially the negative variety, they’re accomplishing their goal and are likely to continue.
When they are largely ignored, they eventually go away.
MTU
I fear the attack of the dustmops and killer.
Aldo-
I agree with you ignoring is a good idea under those circumstances.
But what about that other “stuff” ?
IMO other things could have and should have been instituted.
They weren’t. People were allowed to suffer needlessly.
To me. That is just plain wrong. And it borders on negligence IMO.
I won’t say any more about it. Since Doreen mentioned her reluctance to post I thought I would air it out.
She’s as nice a person as you could find anywhere.
And she’s not the only one who was made to feel vey, very uncomfortable.
I’m done with my rant now.
I hope the Red Sox get Gonzalez AND Crawford, so long as the Yankees get Lee and Andy returns.
That’ll be 3 leftys in the rotation, facing a Red Sox lineup with the lefty-hitting Ellsbury (?), AGonzalez, Crawford, Ortiz, and Drew.
I like their chances with that setup.
Then again, I think Theo the boy wonder’s real target is Werth, and not Crawford.
blake
In order for the RS to get the deal done for Gonzales they will have to do differant than they normally do.
Long term contract for big dollars. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Maine-
You never have to worry about Killer he is usually too drunk too do much harm.
Either that, or he is distracted by his harem.
The Mops only attack garter snakes so don’t worry.
How have you been ?
MTU, I won’t go on about it either. But it’s just that there’s always gonna be some bad, angry people out there – that’ll never change – and I think that even if Chad and Sam took appropriate action, those same people would just find a way around it.
This IS a community. And the best ones to safeguard a community are its members.
Ok, I’m done also. On to bigger and better things.
I think Derek’s contract was a victory for both sides. I believe all he really wanted was that 4th year and to not get embarrassed salary wise. He got that.
The organization didn’t want to tie up 20+ mil a season on a player that many perceive to be on the downside of a great career.
Fans just wanted to see him end his career a Yankee.
A triple win.
MTU
I don’t trust a drunk southern dog.
I’ve been well except for to much taxi driving lately. Interferes with my free time to read the fighting here.
Maine,
Yes and I hope Gonzalez and his agent use the Sox need for him and the short time.window to.drive that price.as high as they can
“Doreen February 24th, 2010 at 11:09 am
jerkface -
I am not looking to start a fight or to denigrate your arguments. Not at all.
The debate on both sides is diminished when the challenges are not to the argument, but to the intelligence of the opponent. It’s like there’s nothing left to argue, so let’s throw a punch or two.
The debate is diminished, not the root of the debate. I can make that distinction.”
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/201.....onference/
doreen-
you’ve been on the lack of civility on the blog for a long time.
and you’re right.
i take some extreme positions that are sometimes in opposition with yours( say cashman for example) , but because we have always kept a basic civility to conversations, there’s never been a problem.
the problem on the blog is that there are too many on the blog who are simply have no idea what basic civility is.
r
Good Morning all, esp Doreen & MTU. Been reading your comments and criticizms of the blog. For what it’s worth, I agree that sometimes this place gets a bit too personal and acrimonious, which is part of the reason I check in less frequently.
That said, its still a great baseball learning/debating environment, with each armchair Scout and GM postulating on events. Gotta love it and shrug off – almost literally – some of the harsher, more posters. Sometimes you have to put people in their place, just like in real life. The problem with blogs is that because of the anonimity of the internet, folks are more likely to say things in a manner that they would never do in person.
Some features like pictures next to screen names and/or identifying cities/towns may help, or even a delay posting – whereby the posts are reviewed for ‘appropriateness’ prior to posting, may work. Problem is LOHUD probably doesn’t have or want the staffing needed for that. A subscription may also help weed out folks – maybe, not that I’m in favor of that option, but it is an option.
Aldo, MTU: i agree with you both. i have been reading/following this blag for approx. 4 yrs. i made some comments in the past. But you can definitely tell the difference between someone who disagrees(which i have no problems with), and people who are just looking to irritate, and tick people off. I personally received a few of those and i just back away from commenting. only recently returned to comment. and while i enjoy reading most of the comments, there are a select few who when i see their screen names, I just scroll right past what they’ve written. i spent years in the union where i work and negotiated several contracts over my 26 years.
I also try to follow what i consider a good peice of advice I try to follow in life. “Never argue with arrogant or ignorant people. They will draf you down to their level and bet you up with it.”
When is somebody going to take this malignant dwarf’s keyboard away?
Today, Jose Reyes’ boyfriend/lifepartner/biggestfanboy takes the fake high ground criticizing the Yankees for being greedy, yet implicitly approves Jeter’s relative greed.
Reading his piece today is like watching a rabid dog chase its tail. Jeter and the Yankees are both in a profit making business, a business that keeps the malignant dwarf Loopyca in champagne and caviar by the way, stomping the divots out in the Hamptons after polo matches. What does Loopyca make to share his “insights”? It’s all about the money, to Steinbrenner, Jeter and Loopyca. Nobody gives it away. But the Yankees are greedy. This guy has so much incinerating hate of money and people with it, yet he can pick and chooses who is good greedy and who is bad greedy.
When hypocrisy isn’t satisfying enough, however, Loopyca hurls this one out:
“This all happens, by the way, in the year when George Steinbrenner passed away, and because of the tax laws in this country, saved his family a fortune in estate taxes.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z17FFYNJUW
Steinbrenner dies and that’s relevant to the legitimacy of the Yankee bargaining position with Jeter? Seriously? So Loopyca wants to pay as much tax as possible out of his estate when he dies?
Doreen
With you and Erica and some of the other ladies here you help balance out the overabundance of testosterone that can take over here at times.
murph,
This is an old take on Lupica but still very relevant.
http://www.enough-lupica.com/l.....utline.htm
Boston media now opining a Gonzalez extension can wait.
An attempt to circumvent the payroll tax?
Looks like they are trying to get him on the cheap ( 6 years).
Why should AGon sign for less then what he wants when there will be other teams to compete with Boston at the end of the season when he is a free agent?
I’m sure he’ll fall in love with the organization and resign the way Bay, Beltre and VMart did.
I’ll be funny if he doesn’t sign by 2 PM today, puts up great numbers in 2011 and then leaves at the end of 2011.
Randy-
What has been, and can still be, an issue around here are publishing
of people’s personal info., and harrassing and stalking people off the board.
I know for a fact that numerous people have been harrassed and threatened.
And that should never have been allowed to happen.
The disagreements aren’t the real problem IMO. It’s the “ad hominem” crap, and the off blog antics that are way more serious.
MTU -
Good morning. I agree with Randy. It would be great if folks could blog an opinion, back it up with some facts, and be willing to discuss their opinions, without getting nasty, or just plain looking to get into an argument.
I could be wrong, Lord knows it won’t be the first time, but I believe it’s the younger bloggers with less tolerance that start the problems, JMO.
It’s nice to see Doreen on this motning, Good morning Doreen.
I can’t wait until trish is back in the groove, it’ll be nice to see her back as well.
Our friend JCPD is making snow angels in Orangemen country, lol.
Al-
What a tradeoff. He makes more dough but he gets to freeze to death as part of the bargain.
Maybe he’ll get smart and move somewhere warm now that he is gonna be rich.
Big Al
I’m dreaming of a brown Christmas.
Have you heard what Ace is planning to do next season?
murphydog-
one of my favorite times on the blog is sunday morning and a big part of that is reading you going bonkers over lupica’s latest silliness, but i read his column you linked to.
i have to agree with him.
yankee management/ownership crossed a line with jeter and there was no reason for the initial tone they took with him.
MTU -
It’s always good to have rich friends. Maybe he’ll buy us a dinner at his place, we could knock down a few, tell some stories, mostly lies, and go back home happy.
Maine -
I can’t discuss Alfredo here – sorry.
Got to go, back in a bit.
Al-
The more beer and lies the better.
Al, I certainly can make those snow angels this morning!!!
Big Al
Not a problem.
MTU, let me let the dust, er snow settle and then I’ll head for warmer pastures.
JCPD-
Utah in your future ?
WooHoo !
JCPD
It souds like you have more snow than we do.
Not enough for snow angels.
MTU, hey you never know
JCPD-
Why fight it.
You know you want to come here.
It’s a perfect fit.
I’ll even watch Dakota for you once in a while. Free of charge.
Think of the possibilities.
MTU
Is it so bad out there that you have to bribe people to live there?
Maine-
We have taxi drivers here.
And loads of Dairy farmers.
MTU
Do they feed the cows rocks?
Maine-
Cacti.
MTU
Do they give prickly milk?
Maine-
You seem perfectly capable of adding that on your own.
MTU
I can’t tell if I should be offended or laugh.
Maine-
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
But not of me.
MTU
You I’m not afraid of.
GB7 and randy are another story.
Maine-
Now THAT I understand.