Rivera and Jeter: Dotting the I and crossing the T
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2010 
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Still waiting for some sort of official word from the Yankees about Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera. As you can probably tell, on-the-record comments are tough to come by at this point, and it will probably stay that way until the signings are official.
The deals may include deferred money, which could obviously help the Yankees make their push for Cliff Lee and secondary pieces.
It also seems the Yankees got creative with Jeter’s fourth-year option, though just how creative remains unknown. The latest from the AP doesn’t include a lot of new information, but this is where we stand right now. At this point, it’s largely a waiting game for the signings to become official.
NEW YORK (AP) — Derek Jeter and the New York Yankees are near an agreement on a three-year contract that would contain an option for 2014.
The deal would include deferred money and average between $15 million and $17 million, a person familiar with the negotiations told The Associated Press on Saturday. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because no announcement has been made.
Jeter’s agent, Casey Close, and the Yankees negotiated late Friday night and early Saturday. The person said “substantial progress” had been made and it was possible an agreement could be reached later Saturday.
The person described the option as “creative” and said the sides had spent much time working on its structure.
Although negotiations with Jeter moved slowly last month, there is little doubt the Yankees captain will remain in pinstripes.
Coming off a $189 million, 10-year contract, Jeter initially had been offered a $45 million, three-year deal.
New York also was in the process of finishing a $30-million, two-year contract with closer Mariano Rivera that also would include deferred money.
Associated Press photo
Anyway, now Tex needs to step up his game next year and get off to a hot start. Enough with this timing stuff. The Sox lineup looks like it will be better and the rest of the division should be fairly solid too. They need their first baseman in his prime to step up this year.
if those two are out of the way Cash better get going with Lee…
Agree, TEX has been a standout defensively, and less than expected offensively.
To this point, he has been an overall dissappointment for the price paid.
That said I still like the guy, he is a probably future HOF and there a few years left for him to be the Middle of the order bat expected of him.
With the risk of being entirely off topic, I’m curious to hear what college hoops fans think of UCONN point guard Kemba Walker, the nation’s leading scorer. I think he’s got Chris Paul potential. Where do you see him drafted?
Kalish at best would project to that. Doesn’t mean he will. At best Montero projects to Piazza/Miggy. Doesn’t mean he will as well. So Kelly being their number one ranked guy is just a product of the Boston PR machine hyping up their own guys? I don’t buy it. Every organization hypes their own guys. Remember Alan Horne. He was hyped on this board and by the Yankees
Bret-
As of right now, Walker and Kyrie Irving of Duke are in a class by themselves in college basketball when it comes to guards. Those two are just incredible.
Repost:
Bret The Hitman,
The Sox have to be more efficient in the draft because they have been a disaster in the IFA market since Theo took over. Replacing players that have made it to AA & AAA with draft picks is never a 1 to 1 deal. A low % of 1st rounders even make it to the upper minors. Go ask the Sox about #1 pick Jason Place.
The guy in the Boston system that I always felt had the best potential was Westmoreland but due to terrible circumstances who knows if what will happen with his career.
Pretty tough to call Teixeira a disappointment. Averaging 157 games, 605 at bats, 167 hits, 40 doubles, 2 triples, 35 homers, 115 RBI, 87 walks, .274 average,. .374 OBP, and a .523 SLG. I suppose you could toss in those two GGs, too.
I really think Derek wants that 4th year to get to 3,500. If he’s not getting his 20+ million then he definitely wants a fair chance to get the 4th year.
3,000 hits is an amazing feat but you’ve got 27 members in the club.
When you get to 3,500, membership shrinks to 5. I’d say Derek has his eye on Stan Musial.
1. Rose
2. Cobb
3. Aaron
4. Jeter
5. Musial
How’s that for inserting yourself into the history books.
Yeah, I don’t think Tex is a disappointment. It would just be nice to see him be a little more consistent at the plate this year and be a more reliable producer. This team is going to be his and Canos now
Triple:
Not sure what you’re arguing here. If you’d rather have Rizzo and Fuentes in your system than Iglesias, Kalish and/or Bard, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
If not, then Hoyer didn’t get enough for A-Gone.
As a #3 hitter, TEX has been completely MIA, nearly 1/3 of his AB as a Yankee. Very streaky hitter. For $23m a year, I’m looking for more consistency. When he is hot he is like Carlos Beltran or Manny Ramirez, nobody can get him out. When he is in a slump, any dog can get him out.
I did say he has been an exceptional defensive player. Better than advertised.
GreenBeret7,
I have been disappointed with him. I didn’t realize how streaky he actually is. It’s one thing to take April off but last year he didn’t get going until June. Also this makes 2 years in a row he has been pretty much an automatic out in the playoffs.
Walker is very good. Reminds me of ben gordon in the way he evolved into a star in that program. That said, I can make arguments that he isn’t even the best guard in the Big East right now. Freeman is a heck of a player.
2012…
30M Arod
23M Teix
23M Lee
23M Sabathia
17M Burnett
17M Jeter
15M Rivera
14M Cano
10M Swisher
10M Granderson
5M Hughes
187M Total
Tyler,
I haven’t watched the Duke guard but I’ve seen plenty of Kemba Walker. He can score WHENEVER he wants AND he has pure point guard handle, vision and passing skills. He’s lightening quick as well. He’s got CP3 written all over him. I’d like to see UCONN have their first #1 overall pick. We’ll see…
Tex has been terrific both on and off the field – seems like a real “stand-up guy” and doesn’t shy away from criticism if he is not performing well.
The one big issue with his game is how he all of sudden turned into a dead pull hitter (especially when batting left handed). I really would love to see him start using the entire field again like he was doing in Texas, Atlanta, and Anaheim. A little too reminiscent of how one-dimensional Jason Giambi became once he became a Yankee.
BJK,
While I would rather have Kalish then Rizzo. I want no part of Iglesias. He is an awful awful hitter. Also why would the Padres trade for a closer when Mike Adams or Gregerson or any one of their other decent arms in the pen could replace Bell. Top closers help you win the world series not get you to the playoffs
Absurd. Just absurd. So once again, the Red Sox have been gifted an MVP type player for nothing but a bag of balls.
When we wanted Curtis Granderson – nothing against the Grandyman – we had to give up one of our top 2 prospects.
Gonzalez has been rumored to be going there for 2 years, and eventually he does.
Lee has been rumored to be going to the Yankees for about a year now. I wonder if that will come to fruition.
Why is it when there are marquee free agents available, the Red Sox have interest in all of them, and simply because they show interest, they are the frontrunners. If they want Crawford, they will have him. If they want Werth, they will have him. One time they did not get what they wanted was with Teixeira – thankfully because we stepped in.
And if anyone thinks that Gonzalez is going to get Howard $$$, you’re sorely mistaken. He will settle for a 4 year contract extension at $18 million per year. Essentially, a discounted rate, less annual value than a 36 year old shortstop that ought to take less money to help the only team he has ever known.
27th place out of 17,498 players isn’t anything to sneeze at. Two other targets Jeter has his eyes set on with 2,000 runs scored and 600 doubles. The doubles could get him into the top 10, though that’s a stretch. 500 doubles get’s him to #50. 400 steals is more of a stretch. One thing that is in reach is 5,000 total bases.
From MLBTR:
According to King, Jeter deal will be done later today. 3 yrs 15-17 mill plus a creative 4th year option.
Yankees, Derek Jeter Agree To Contract
By Mike Axisa [December 4 at 11:47am CST]
The Yankees and Derek Jeter have agreed to a three-year contract worth $15MM-17MM annually, according to George A. King III of The New York Post. The deal will be finalized later today and includes a fourth year option King describes as “tricky” because it can neither vest nor is not a club option. It is linked to what happens during the first three years of the
Gonzalez will get 5 or 6 years at $22+MM/year.
Just look at the marketplace.
He has to. His comps suggest similar age and production, so why wouldn’t he get similar contract terms as a Howard or Teixeira.
boston will be set at 1B, 2B, 3B, and RF with key pieces for several years. Sound familar?
@DaSaint We shall see.
Wonder how many of the Boston players that sold out for security early will drop hints about wanting to renegotiate those deals?
Alan Horne suffered numerous debilitating injuries during the course of his career, it was never a case of him not meeting expectations from a talent stand point.
Get your facts straight.
Werth, NOT Crawford next for Boston…
With the addition of Gonzalez, a left-handed hitter, Jayson Werth suddenly would become a better fit in Boston than the other big free-agent outfielder, Carl Crawford.
Werth, as a right-handed hitter, would provide greater balance. Crawford would make the Sox predominantly left-handed.
Consider this potential lineup for 2011:
Jacoby Ellsbury, CF (L)
Dustin Pedroia, 2B (R)
Adrian Gonzalez, 1B (L)
Kevin Youkilis, 3B (R)
David Ortiz, DH (L)
Werth, LF (R)
J.D. Drew, RF (L)
Marco Scutaro, SS (R)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia, C (S)
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ove-120410
Bad job Hoyer – he will soon go the way of Josh Byrnes in Arizona – who just signed ironically with the Padres – at a minimum – needed to get back Bard, Kelly, and Iglesias for a piece like Gonzales.
Pads should have taken the 2 draft picks they would have gotten for Gonzalez…….
Supposedly, according to one of the world’s greatest reporters and all around great guys, Jon Heyman puts it at an additional 7 years and $170 mil to go with this year’s contract.
From what I hear, I like the talk about the deferred compensation. With Jeter, $17 x 3 with an option year 4 sounds just about right. Mo could have asked for more (maybe he did, we don’t know yet), but $15 x 2 is also just about right.
Signing Crawford and moving Swish adds about $7-9 to the payroll–so maybe they are considering it. It all depends on what the final contract with Lee is.
So Boston signs Alex Gonzalez. Good for them. He wants (and should get) Ryan Howard money. Sawx–the GM gave you a slight hometown discount. You can guarantee that the player isn’t going to, especially having to leave his hometown. Call it an “anti-hometown” discount. $25 x 6, $20 x 8? They were willing to go $160-170 x 8 on Tex a few years ago, so the agent has them over a barrel. How are Youk and Pedroia going to react to that kind of contract?
No more ML ready draft picks. Payroll with zero flexibility for this year. No margin for error. I’m OK with that. Let’s see if the contract can get done first.
As much as many of us think that Joba will be traded, with the Yankees having major long-term financial commitments at 1B, soon to be 2B, 3B…
Wait a minute. Actually, as far as position players are concerned, the Yankees currently only have long-term position player contracts at 1B and 3B (huge ones though). Cano and Jeter are shorter term for now, and the outfield has short term, reasonable contracts. Its the starting rotation that has major commitments to CC, AJ, and hopefully to Lee.
Crawford could still be an option, as he could be a long term anchor in LF, alongside Garnder or Granderson in CF. I love Swisher, and he is affordable, but because of that he does have trade value. Granderson does also, and maybe he’s the one traded since Gardner duplicates his role perfectly.
Creative…
Brand new Ford Edge? Oh wait, he already has one of those.
How about a deferred ownership stake? Can you do that?
Triple: you deal for Bard because he’s the better player of the bunch. If that means you have a surplus in closers, great. You deal from your strength to improve the rest of your team.
This 4th year is going to be interesting.
Not vesting and not a club option. It’s obviously not a player option.
The 2,000 runs in 3 seasons is possible but maybe not if he’s hitting lower in the lineup. He needs 315. He needs 184 hits to catch his favorite player, Winfield, on the list. He’ll definitely break the top 20 by the end of 2011. Top 10 could come at the end of 2012 or early 2013.
BJK,
The problem with that is that nobody gives up top talent for closers. When the Padres deal Bell at the trade deadline next year see how much they get for him
RhapsodyInBlue,
Alan Horne projected at no better then a number 4 starter
Deferred money could reduce the PDV to below $15m a year.
Anyway, just be Derek Jeter again for the next two years, iow, a 119 OPS+ and slightly below average defense at SS.
Even a Yankee hating, Jeter is more important than the team fanboy/girl, should want that.
Great news on Jeter…….glad this is done.
I feel Graderson is more Swisher like than Gardner.
Gardner can’t duplicate Granderson’s role on this team. Granderson is power bat with speed. Gardner is a on base guy with speed.
If the Yankees sign Crawford, I expect Swisher to be dealt and Granderson to move to RF where he’ll shoot for 30HR’s a year which would surpass Swisher’s production out there.
That said, I don’t think the Yankees are signing Crawford. I think we’ll have the same OF we had last year.
The only thing I could see is we sign Crawford under the guise that Gardner may not be ready wrist wise and will need some time to get healthy. At that point, the team assesses how Jorge is doing as DH and if he’s struggling they move Swisher to DH when Gardner is ready to play the field and start again.
The Yankees could keep all 4 OF’ers next season (Swisher, Gardner, Granderson and Crawford) and make it work until the next year if they wanted. Their payroll will be ridiculous for next season though.
You cannot do deferred ownership without the approval of the commissioner. It’s in the MLB rules.
If I’m Boston and I sign Gonzalez to a monster contract, that erases the loss of Beltre and Victor Martinez AAV but replaces part of their offense. Payroll is back to AAV of about $170.
Boras is going to look at Gonzalez extension deal and ask for a lot for Werth. That potentially puts Boston over the lux tax, does it not?
Triple Short of a Cycle
You wrote that Alan Horne was hyped and implied he didn’t live up to it, I responded he did not because of injuries.
End of story.
If Crawford is signed, Gardner becomes the 4th OF or a trade piece. There’s no reason to put him in there with Crawford, Granderson, Swisher. Those 3 are way better than Gardner.
I’m willing to bet substantial money that Granderson and his plus defense will never be wasted in RF.
It’s just not happening.
RhapsodyInBlue,
I was talking about how every organization hypes their own prospects. Why would you hype a guy who only projected to be a number 4 at best. Just like they hyped Ian Kennedy as well
“Their payroll will be ridiculous for next season though.”
If you get Lee, Jeter, Mo, and CC2 to defer enough money, they could come in at a decent (for them) number.
Rivera’s not a team player. he’s stalling on signing a new deal. The greedy &^(%43&.
As Luxury tax threshold for 2011 has not been determined, it makes sense to defer Jeter and Rivera’s salaries. It will provide wiggle room in pursuing Lee, especially if the FO wants to retain a self imposed payroll ceiling near 215MM.
Rich,
That’s got to be Cashman’s goal at this point. Get enough guys to defer money for next season and you can make this work under their “budget”.
If Cashman pulls all that off, he’s done a bang up job.
If the Yankees cave on Rivera’s ridiculous demands, I’m going to hate everybody.
If Crawford is signed, along with Lee, there won’t be room for Pettitte. If Pettitte resigns, without trading Swisher, you’re looking at close to a 240 million payroll.
“Rivera’s not a team player.”
You must be thinking of Ruben Rivera. How much did he get for selling Jeter’s glove????
Yankee Trader December 4th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
“Rivera’s not a team player.”
You must be thinking of Ruben Rivera. How much did he get for selling Jeter’s glove????
———————————————————————————————————————-
apparently, not enough. He’s still playing in the mexican winter Leagues, as well as the summer leagues.
Triple Short of a Cycle
You wrote that Horne was hyped and didn’t live up to expectations!
I don’t care what he was projected to be, that’s an entirely different discussion.
Because of injuries we’ll never know what Horne might have been. Like Brien Taylor, same deal.
Didn’t live up to expectations because of injuries.
Yankee Trader,
There’s no doubt in my mind that the Yankees will overpay for Lee now that Boston is successfully executing their own off season plan to a tee. Getting Lee protects the farm against trade damage.
So pencil in Lee and Crawford.
Work from there on Swish and/or Pettitte.
Remember though, since Cash won’t have to exhaust trade chips on a starter, he can use them to acquire a cost-effective RF in place of Swish. Then he can sure up the bull pen by trading Swish for an elite reliever.
Ruben Rivera you tube baserunning skills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ94rkwdTvQ
Add Christian Garcia to the injury derailed potential. Lord, he was fun to watch when he was healthy enough to pitch.
Hal is not his father….. The Yankees payroll will not be over 205M + 4M Igawa
boston will be set at 1B, 2B, 3B, and RF with key pieces for several years. Sound familar?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
But alot younger. And cheaper.
No matter how you tweak the numbers in regards to deferred salaries in additions to trading Swisher or Granderson, I can’t see Yankees signing Crawford at the same time keeping the payroll static.
Bret-
From an earlier post:
Yankee Trader December 4th, 2010 at 11:01 am
The Yankees would have to increase their payroll to around 231 M to add Lee Crawford and Pettitte, while subtracting Swisher for prospects.
144M committed, 15M Rivera, 17M Jeter, 12M Pettitte, 23M Lee, 11M arbitration cases per Baseball-Reference, approx. 18M for Crawford minus 9M Swisher = 231 million.
That doesn’t factor in a bench or bullpen.
I would trade Swisher in a second. Guy gets embarrassed and exposed with good pitching and is an automatic out in the postseason
“Add Christian Garcia to the injury derailed potential. Lord, he was fun to watch when he was healthy enough to pitch.”
He really was.
Gonzalez at first and Werth in LF will come cheaper?
That’s news.
Yes, they could defer all that money, but at some point the bill comes due. Its the same as a balloon payment nightmare. They already have to manage aging, long term players with high dollar deals…now they are going to add deferred money? Cashman is literally mortgaging the future to win now before Arod, Jeter, Mo and Tex fall off the cliff.
If Boston signs Werth, he’ll neither be cheaper nor younger than Swisher. Stop lying.
Redsox…
1B 29
2B 27
3B 32
RF 32
How exactly is this much younger?
GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
If the Yankees cave on Rivera’s ridiculous demands, I’m going to hate everybody.
Yea me too and how bout that greedy I-me-mine Jeter deferring his money so he can sock it to the yanks down the road when he REALLY declines
Boston doesn’t really need Werth with Ellsbury and Cameron coming back. They need a pitching help.
Trader – yes, but the only guy they can really move is Dice-K. Their locked into to Lackey/Beckett.
Am I the only one that is wanting the Yanks to sign Crawford for all the right reasons? Who cares how much it costs. I mean a pay per view foot race between Crawford and Gardner will get you full return on your investment.
Also, if we can find another player with initials of C.C. we can have Kay revive generation trey.
“Boston doesn’t really need Werth with Ellsbury and Cameron coming back. They need a pitching help.”
Which Ellsbury are you talking about? If it’s not the one who flashed for 116 AB in 2007, he’s a below average to league average hitter.
Werth and Gonzalez are better than Swisher and Tex. Werth has the most postseason HRs in the NL since 1996 at 13.
And comparing runs between the two teams last year is meaningless considering 2 of their best players missed substantial time.
Still have no idea how Hoyer could give away his star player and all he got was overhyped 5 ERA in AA Casey Kelly as his centerpiece. They didn’t even get Ellsbury who the Sox were very willing to move. Even if Hoyer gets canned, he probably has a job ready in Boston awaiting him anyway, and Gammons will overhype him and he will then get another GM job.
Let’s see-the Padres GM Hoyer dumps A-Gone for non ready major league players, lets Garland go for 5M to the Dodgers, won’t resign Chris Young who looked good in his return from surgery, will likely dump Ryan Ludwick and trade Heath Bell. I imagine Hoyer can feel that with his promotion to Padres GM, with the help of the Sox, that he and the Red Sox are now even.
Had the Sox signed Teixera they wouldn’t have had to trade prospects to Cleveland for Victor Martinez and they wouldn’t have had to trade more prospects to SD for Gonzalez….plus they are still going to have to pay big money to extend him. Its a good move for Boston and one they really needed to make to re-energize their fan base, but they have paid a lot in prospects and now will in money to get to this point.
and Boston is still looking for someone to keep balls rolling to the backstop when the pitcher throws it.
SD probably didn’t want Ellsbury. He’s about to get expensive and if they are going to rebuild then do it with guys who have no service time and can be controlled for several years. Ellsbury isn’t somebody to rebuild around.
The RS will be better, but we knew they would be. It puts them back in the game. Who’s better will be determined on the field. Everything else is worthless.
I find it hard to believe a prospect-heavy team like Atlanta or Tampa or someone couldn’t put together a better package for Gonzo, even as a rental.
I’m not surprised they got him, just that they gave up virtually nothing to get him. This package was actually worse than the packages all of us were bashing yesterday. At least those packages had Ellsbury and even Kalish/Iglasius in addition to Kelly.
Congratulations to the B*st*n R*d S*x for winning the 2011 World Series .
Congratulations to the 2011 World Champions B*st*n R*d S*x !
I think teams like Atlanta learned from their rent a player mistakes with Teixera……..Andrus and Feliz should be in Atlanta right now.
Yankee Trader
December 4th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Pretty funny stuff that video.
See, that’s where you are wrong. The Red Sox never run out of the prospects necessary to acquire MVP or CY Young talent. The Red Sox farm system is like Hydra. When one prospect is gone, 3 more regenerate in his place.
blake – Yes, but did they really lose anyone of value? I think they would have gotten Martinez anyway, just because their catching situation was a mess.
They get to recoup those picks from Beltre/Martinez anyway and considering they didn’t lose much, there is a good chance the players they select with those picks will be better than the ones they gave away.
Gonzo is also better than Tex IMO and 2 years younger, so it might not have been a bad tradeoff for them. You are right though, they needed to make this move, their offseason early on was looking like it could be rough.
Ruby:
How come you are always lookin for donuts ?
Remember, they are getting 2 draft picks each from V-Mart and Beltre. So they will have a chance to replenish their system.
And it may be dry now, but Law/Gammons will take care of that for them by hyping up their middle-tier guys like they did with Casey Kelly.
Adrian Gonzalez vs CC 1 for 8, 5Ks
Adrian Gonzalez vs Andy 1 for 8, 3 Ks
Adrian Gonzalez vs Cliff Lee 7 for 10, 1 K – 3 doubles and 1 HR
” Keep this in mind, however: The Red Sox will gain five draft picks in a deep 2011 draft as free-agent compensation. They will get two picks for Victor Martinez, two for Adrian Beltre and one for Felipe Lopez in addition to their own. “
EA,
Chances are the draft picks will be better than Beltre/Martinez? Draft picks are great but the MLB draft is by far the biggest crap shoot of all the major sports. There is no way to predict how kids that age will develop.
pat December 4th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Adrian Gonzalez vs CC 1 for 8, 5Ks
Adrian Gonzalez vs Andy 1 for 8, 3 Ks
Adrian Gonzalez vs Cliff Lee 7 for 10, 1 K – 3 doubles and 1 HR
———————————————————————————————————————-
Moral of the story? Lee needs to hit Gonzalez 4 times a game.
blake,
Sorry, I meant that the draft picks could be better than Masterson, Hagadone, Kelly, Rizzo, etc. and the guys they traded away for Martinez and Gonzo. In the sense that, even though they gave up all those guys, they have a chance to replenish their farm and perhaps get even better prospects than those guys.
I don’t care how.many draft picks the Sox get……they have nothing close to the big leagues anymore in their farm system, especially on the mound.
Those sample sizes are way too small to matter.
And it pushed back any minor leaguers that might have helped back another 3-4 years.
“How come you are always lookin for donuts ?”
Don Koharski is his gay lover. NTTAWWT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXpcb5aTnPk
EA,
Yes, a chance. They could also strike out on all their picks just as easily. Either way, those picks wont reach Boston for a few years….if they ever do at all. With prospects, a bird in the hand is always worth 3 or 4 in the bush.
Moral of the story? Lee needs to hit Gonzalez 4 times a game.
===========
GB,
I thought it was Lee pitching right handed when Gonzales steps up to the plate to keep his pitch count down.
GB
lol and he’s 0-8 against Mitre. You just can’t predict baseball. /sterling
“I don’t care how.many draft picks the Sox get……they have nothing close to the big leagues anymore in their farm system, especially on the mound.”
But they only gave up 1 pitcher in Kelly. Would he really be able to save them anyway, even if they had an injury? He had a 5 ERA in AA and based on the reports (on this very board) he was overhyped anyway.
They are overloaded with OFers, so they didn’t need Fuentes. And Rizzo is useless with Gonzo there anyway.
They gave away their chips for future deals (however, as others have said, they can easily replace these guys with the picks they get from Beltre and Martinez) but I doubt it will effect them much on-the-field. It leaves them dry, this winter, to make anymore big trades. How they use their Beltre/Martinez picks will determine if their system gets rejuvenated.
Good grief.
The board is switching from the Jeter contract nonsense back to being scared of the Red Sox again. I don’t know which is worse.
I couldn’t care less what the Red Sox do during the season. I sure as hell don’t give a fig about what they’re doing in the offseason.
Cashman has been waiting on Lee and Pettitte to decide. That’s a huge handicap. It’s always better to not be subject to others decisions. It’s preferable to be proactive and aggressive.
Not ideal for Cashman to go to the winter meetings not knowing about Pettitte.
WCYF,
Yea it would be nice to get an idea about Andy soon….and I imagine Cash would try to do that.
“Werth and Gonzalez are better than Swisher and Tex.”
—————
and, if true, that matters because?
go back to your video game.
“Not ideal for Cashman to go to the winter meetings not knowing about Pettitte.”
How do you know what Cashman knows?
Nothing the red sox pick up will ever be as lethal as Manny. That ship has sailed and I will never be scared of the boogieman again.
We can add Pedro to that list.
I would hope so. Knowing if you have a starter you can count on seems to me to be important. Especially given the uncertainty in the rotation after Sabathia and not knowing for sure if Lee is on the way.
GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
and Boston is still looking for someone to keep balls rolling to the backstop when the pitcher throws it.
————————————————————————————————
So are the Yankees! Yankee catchers should hit way better than Boston’s. But there is no reason to think their defense will be any less putrid than last year’s.
Pat – I think it would have leaked if Petitte had made a decision.
re: Boston
the question right now is… how much better will Adrian Gonzalez and their next signing (Werth?) be than what they got out of Beltre and Victor Martinez?
their offense was good but not great last season (injuries played into that.)
Their offense will likely be very good in 2011, but how good remains to be seen.
They lost their most productive player in Beltre and VMart wasn’t too far behind.
I’m personally surprised that SD pulled the trigger so quickly. It didn’t seem like they shopped AGone much and in my opinion, not one of the players they are rumored to be getting will sniff a major league All-Star game.
pat, and they say that Sterling is dumb. He made that up for just those occasions when Mitre makes Gonzalez silly. I’ve seen too many Mitre type pitchers make HOF hitters look silly. How else can you explain Bob Uecker hitting 14 career homers and 1 off of Koufax, 1 off of Fergie Jenkins and 1 off of Gaylord Perry….3 HOFers.
I wouldn’t say it is a foregone conclusion that the Sox get Werth or Crawford.
Other teams have money to spend and are interested in those 2. I wouldn’t rule out the Tigers making another big splash.
“I couldn’t care less what the Red Sox do during the season. I sure as hell don’t give a fig about what they’re doing in the offseason.”
We usually don’t agree on much, but we agree on this point.
“pat, and they say that Sterling is dumb”
I don’t think Sterling is dumb. His main problem is that he is sight-challenged.
You can’t compare losing Beltre’s production and gaining AG’s. Or VMart for that matter. The difference is the Sox are getting a younger, better player for 7-8 years.
The Tigers will very likely make a big play for Werth and I think.Crawford is out for Boston now….they are already pretty left handed and they wont outbox the Angels ( or Yankees if they chose).
“You can’t compare losing Beltre’s production and gaining AG’s.”
Yes, you can.
2011 predictions for *dr**n G*nz*l*z –
Homeruns: 59
R.B.I.: 150
Runs: 133
Hits: 217
B.A.: 0.36018
“You can’t compare losing Beltre’s production and gaining AG’s. Or VMart for that matter. The difference is the Sox are getting a younger, better player for 7-8 years.”
—————————
While Gonzalez is younger, he was not better than Beltre last year.
If Beltre can continue to produce at MVP levels remains to be seen, but he had a great season.
““I couldn’t care less what the Red Sox do during the season. I sure as hell don’t give a fig about what they’re doing in the offseason.”
————
I respect the opinion, but it’s my opinion that it’s foolish not to care what your main competitors are up to.
There’s a reason businesses have departments that focus strictly on what their competition is doing. When you develop a business plan, there is an entire section devoted to the market you are entering.
What the Red Sox do, matters. What Tampa does, matters. What other teams do, matters.
It’s why Cashman is always trying to make the Yankees better.
Yes you can Rich. But it makes no sesnse.
BD,
I think they dodged a bullet with Beltre… I wouldn’t trust him on a long term deal. He was great last year, but could he perform like an all-star for then ext 5 years like Gonzalez likely will?
I also am surprised they acted so quickly. Only yesterday the reports came out and they were willing to trade him, then in less than a day, they already trade him? Why not see if you can gather some other teams at the winter meetings? I know he is a rental, but surely, you would think you could do much better than what Hoyer did. Theo took them to the cleaners.
sp – sense
I I couldn’t can’t stand rooting for a team like Boston that trades for all of the best players while screwing the have not teams and signing all of the best free agents.
You can’t compare losing Beltre’s production and gaining AG’s.”
—————-
sure you can. And I just did.
secondly, I asked how much better would he be (but I guess the fact that I suggested he would be better than Beltre went way over your head)
“Pat ? I think it would have leaked if Petitte had made a decision.”
They hired a pitching coach no one knew they interviewed. No small feat. Cash has stealth mode when need be.
ZMan,
I agree. I was hoping they’d sign Beltre for 4-5 years. I figure he’d have been good for them, but probably never better than he was last season.
Gonzalez is a huge trade for them and will anchor that team for years. He’s their Tex. I gotta tip my cap to the Sox for pulling off that deal and welcome them back into the race.
I still like the Yanks, for sure.
BD makes no sense. Beltre was coming off a contract season, one good year, and AG is a much much better player who is 3 years younger and will be locked in for years. No comparison.
It’s not a foregone conclusion that Werth or Crawford ends up in Boston.
Adrian Gonzalez is a stud – a top 5 hitter in the league. Getting him greatly improves the Red Sox. I think the Padres got fleeced if what is reportedly being traded is the truth.
That being said, it’s just one player and the Yankees aren’t done assembling their team. No need to panic…
BD comparing Beltre and AG makes you look foolish.
Rich in NJ says:
December 4, 2010 at 2:20 pm
“pat, and they say that Sterling is dumb”
I don’t think Sterling is dumb. His main problem is that he is sight-challenged.
————————–
I think he’s sight-challenged AND dumb.
The Sox love to put their “value” on a player. And the love to play hardball with over 30 players with some injury history.
They are not just going to walk into the winter meetings and blow away a 32 year old OF with past knee problems.
It will be interesting to see how high and how long they would be willing to go with Werth.
Last year Beltre gave the a .900+ OPS. He’s not going to be back in Boston.
A-Gone looks as if he will be. He, in theory, replaces what Beltre did for them last year.
Just as Beltre replaced the numbers they use to get from Bay.
If you compare their careers, you’re right there is no comparison between Gonzalez and Beltre. But if you look at only last year they are comparable and in fact, Beltre had the better year.
Still though, I’d rather the Sox lock up Beltre than Gonzalez… AG is a stud
Don’t forget: Werth is also a Boras guy.
Wonder how.well the Youkka can still play 3b?
Gonzalez will be “locked in for years to come” just like Beltre will be locked in for years to come.
They are both signing contracts as if they are free agents.
This is not the case where the Sox traded for a player who is cost controlled for several years.
If the Sox can’t land Werth then on paper they have probably lost more than they have gained offensively when you consider losing both Beltre and Vmart…..also they would be a very LHed lineup in a division with a lot of good lefties.
The Tigers are going to be big after Werth I believe and Philly is still in the picture as well.
Gonzalez gives them a younger, but relatively lateral move from the offensive standpoint to what Beltre gave them last year. With Yoook going back to 3B and Gonzalez manning 1st, does that make them a better or worse defensive club than last year?
They also lose Martinez’s production and Varitek is no one on the market is going to come close to those numbers at C, so they are weaker there.
To those crying and moaning that SD got fleeced and how Cash NEEDS to respond… that’s the usual emotional, reactionary thinking that the spoiled fan-base comes up with.
“ZOMG! Cash NEEDS to just go get Werth, Crawford and Lee!! What’s he waiting for?!!1!!”
Boston’s rotation is still a mess and they’re weakening their minor leagues. I’m hardly concerned with what they do. Relax.
BD,
It’s not our jobs to shape the Yanks’ roster and compare it to their competitors. That’s Cashman’s job and he’s done a pretty good job of constructing a better team than the Red Sox the last couple of seasons.
Yanks: 16 playoff wins and a WS title Red Sox: Zero playoff wins and a 3rd Place finish
We have no say so in the matter how the roster is shaped. None. Zero. So what’s the point of worrying about something we have no control over?
It’s a pointless exercise.
I think Jed Hoyer did the best he could. I don’t think that there are too many other teams out there that had the prospects and the financial ability to extend Adrian Gonzalez for 5-7 years at $25 million a year.
**Varitek or no one
well looks like SD is going to trade AG to the Red Sox for minor league players and a possible player off their roster…….
# Giuseppe Franco December 3rd, 2010 at 6:22 pm
The Red Sox aren’t getting Gonzalez unless the Padres get a major haul in return.
We heard this crap all last offseason too and it amounted to nothing. He’s still a Padre and the team was much better in 2010.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Giuseppe Franco -
That sounds more like a wish list from a Sux fan.
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# Giuseppe Franco December 3rd, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Indeed, Al.
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# GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2010 at 6:35 pm
San Diego is this close to the NL West top and they’re going to sink their next 2-3 years and risk losing what fans they have? Not likely. If Gonzales is dealt, it’ll be mid season, if SD falls out of the race. He’s also going to get Teixeira money. A lot of money and farm for somebody that may not play until early to late May.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:40 pm
GB7 -
And not to mention, nobody knows yet how he’ll be coming off the injury. The Sux have been talking AG since last winter. I don’t see that trade happening unless Boston offers much, much more than prospects.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:42 pm
To all the Red Sux fans trolling here, getting AG for prospects only, sorry it ain’t happening, it’s called mental masterbation, keep dreaming.
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Been busy today, and just catching up.
So, the Padres traded Gonzalez, currently one of the best hitters in the game, for minor leaguers, none of whom are ML ready? Are you kidding me? That’s all it took? Not Bard, Bucholz? What was Hoyer thinking? And, nobody could top that package? Unless Hoyer knows something special about those guys, this ranks up there with what the Mets sent the Twins for Santana. And we all know how well that worked out for the Twins.
Overrall, though, it always comes down to pitching. If you pitch, you have a tremendous advantage. That’s why getting Cliff Lee will trump anything else. Lee, CC, Hughes, and Andy (hopefully) will be the best ticket for 2011.
Kentucky/UNC looking like a good ending on CBS.
Youkka/Gonzalez probably isn’t as good defensively as Beltre/Youkka. Gonzalez is on Teixera’s level as a 1b but Beltre is a much better defender at 3B than Youkalis likely is. They should be Ok defensively though…..id imagine Youk can still play acceptable 3b.
GO HEELS!
“If the Tigers were to sign Werth, another bonus, to me anyway, is that Philadelphia, not Boston, would receive the Tigers first round pick. Werth is rated higher than Martinez, so the Red Sox would have to settle for a second round pick instead. If it happens, the Tigers would have taken Boston’s switch-hitting catcher, their top free agent priority (Werth) and stuck them with only a second round pick in return. Man, would that be sweet.”
http://motorcitybengals.com/20.....son-werth/
joeman, looks like a whole lot of crow is being consumed today. Any idea who got the AG story right?
ok, let’s be honest here. we don;t know if youk will ever be the player he was before. wrist injuries are hard to deal with, see nomar. agon at first is only slightly better than youk at first. but my guess is that youk at third is not what beltre was there. and they lost vmart and emptied their farm. it’s not a huge upgrade. if he signs for 7/150, the red sox are in a financially tight position.
the other issue is pedrioa. if he was a yankee all you would read about in the papers is how there’s a huge question mark at 2nd base. if that foot injury is not healed by the time the season starts, he’s not a 100% player.
the red sox got better with agon, but not a whole lot better. they would have been better off signing beltre to a smaller deal and keeping youk at first
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
joeman, looks like a whole lot of crow is being consumed today. Any idea who got the AG story right?
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LOL!!!!!! You my man …..you
Blake if I remember correctly didn’t Beltre commit 19 or 20 errors at third base in 2010?
I see. Thank you joeman. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Maybe it would be prudent to wait until the off-season is actually OVER before declaring which team made the best moves…
Another possibility for Werth
“Similarly, the Texas Rangers would like to upgrade their outfield but are presently preoccupied with another free agent: Cliff Lee.
The Rangers haven’t ruled out the possibility of signing Werth or Crawford, a source said, but team officials are devoting virtually all of their attention to retaining Lee. At least for the moment.
If Lee signs with the New York Yankees, as many expect, the Rangers will reevaluate the marketplace. For that reason, it won’t be a surprise if Werth and Crawford wait until after Lee is off the board before making their decisions.”
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ers-120210
Youk is a better than average 3rd baseman not on the par of Beltre but good……no doubt what they have now at 1st & 3rd base is a better combo
WCYF,
I don’t know the exact number….he made a lot early (trying to learn how the ball reacts off the rocks in the Fenway infield) but Beltre is widely considered one of the better defensive 3B in baseball.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I see. Thank you joeman. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
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no what would be nice is if the 3 admitted that they blew it, hey I always admit my mistakes which is often
would like nothing better than to see Lee sign with the Yankees, that would keep the wheels from really spinning…got to have Andy back also
Joe from Long Island December 4th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Been busy today, and just catching up.
So, the Padres traded Gonzalez, currently one of the best hitters in the game, for minor leaguers, none of whom are ML ready? Are you kidding me? That’s all it took? Not Bard, Bucholz? What was Hoyer thinking? And, nobody could top that package? Unless Hoyer knows something special about those guys, this ranks up there with what the Mets sent the Twins for Santana. And we all know how well that worked out for the Twins.
Overrall, though, it always comes down to pitching. If you pitch, you have a tremendous advantage. That’s why getting Cliff Lee will trump anything else. Lee, CC, Hughes, and Andy (hopefully) will be the best ticket for 2011.
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Afternoon, Joe. Hope all is well at the restaurant, Long Island BBQ and Grill.
I’m not counting Burnett and Chamberlain out on making a rebound in 2011. I’d kill to know what they and Rothschild are planning on to correct their flaws. Even then, bringing Pettitte back and Lee in has to really amp up the rotation and with Lee adding a lot of innings, that should reduce the number of innings that the bullpen tire patches have to fill. Add in the fact that Hughes has no real innings limits spells good news. Offense will depend as always on eliminating the little nicks and scrapes a bunch of them suffered and reduced their effectiveness.
“BD comparing Beltre and AG makes you look foolish.”
West Coast Yankee Fan,
your inability to understand my point makes YOU look foolish. I’d try to “dumb down” my comments for you but I’m just not all that interested.
Beltre is smooth @3rd, and made plays this yr that I don’t think any other third basemen since Rolen in his prime makes.
Youkilis will be steady, and I remember him having surprising range when he played 3rd, but not anything like Beltre’s range.
Big win for.the Heels…..needed that one.
Buster sez, Gonzalez looking for: 7-8 years 20-23 per extension……that’s big money for “small market” Sox.
GF,
I’m not saying anyone should worry.
I was responding to those who said they “couldn’t care less” what the Red Sox do.
I disagree with that. What the Red Sox do, does have an impact on the Yankees. I followed it up by saying I still like the Yanks chances, just that the Sox got better, and the Yanks need to try to get better (as they always do) as well.
Not a big deal, either way.
Sounds like Jeter’s 4th year is going to require a slide rule to figure out if he’s vested for 2014.
# BD (Boston Dave) December 4th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
GF,
I’m not saying anyone should worry.
I was responding to those who said they “couldn’t care less” what the Red Sox do.
I disagree with that. What the Red Sox do, does have an impact on the Yankees. I followed it up by saying I still like the Yanks chances, just that the Sox got better, and the Yanks need to try to get better (as they always do) as well.
Not a big deal, either way.
———————————————————–
–I’m a Yankee fan and always care what the Sox are up to
Just as was the case 2 years ago with Mark Texeria, Angel Asst. GM, Kenny Forsch believes that The NY Yankees with be their number 1 competition for Carl Crawford……. Yanks are shopping Nick Swisher, Joba Chamberlain, Francisco Cervelli as well……Thise conversation took place last Saturday on the Links at Pebble Beach…..Jason Werth to Boston remains a very strong possibility moving JD Drew to CF…….
pat, what’s the update on the option? anything worth adding?
“Yes you can Rich. But it makes no sesnse.”
Why? You can look at WAR and the defensive realignment it will cause.
That doesn’t provide a perfect barometer of the difference, but it offers some useful information.
BD (Boston Dave) December 4th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
“BD comparing Beltre and AG makes you look foolish.”
West Coast Yankee Fan,
your inability to understand my point makes YOU look foolish. I’d try to “dumb down” my comments for you but I’m just not all that interested.
****************************
BD, Tough to have a battle of wits w/ an unarmed combatant,LOL!!
That was a big win for UNC, Blake.
A win against UK, even @home, always looks good come March.
Pat M
Jeez, I wouldn’t trade Joba now, especially with a new PC coming on. The chances of selling very low are high.
Swisher offers a lot of production for his salary and he doesn’t have a long-term contract. I would be reluctant to move him unless I was overwhelmed.
“Sounds like Jeter’s 4th year is going to require a slide rule to figure out if he’s vested for 2014.”
Perhaps it will be based on intangible criteria????
Just as an FYI – Beltre has played many more innings at 3B. Here is what they have done respectively to date.
- In 1,606 innings Youk has committed 18 errors in his career at 3B = 0.01120 errors per inning. Lifetime fielding percentage of .997 (not all at 3B)
- In 15,640 innings Beltre has committed 224 errors in his career at 3B = 0.01432 errors per inning. Lifetime fielding percentage of .957
UNC is a young team, look like they could be starting to jell, big win today for the heels.
thanks for the Forsch info, Pat. Any idea what or who the Yanks might be looking at?
Hardwired,
Yup….big one. Hopefully that will get them goin this year.
Errors tell you nothing about balls a fielder couldn’t get to.
It’s a very misleading stat.
“BD, Tough to have a battle of wits w/ an unarmed combatant,LOL!!”
============
yeah, I don’t get it .
I asked how much better Gonzalez (and possible 2nd signing – Werth?) would be than Beltre and VMart because the latter pair had pretty good seasons in 2010.
Then WCYF made a wild (and poor) interpretation and told me I can’t say that Beltre is better than Adrian Gonzalez.
Should I ask how much better Jed Lowrie will be this season than last or will I get scolded by WCYF for suggesting that he is going to win the MVP?
Pat M – Hope he is right
Callis says: (on radio) that the deal was fair on both sides. Compared it to the Beckett deal.with Florida. Says the Sox gave up the best pitching prospect, the best hitting prospect, and best athlete they had in their system.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Just as an FYI – Beltre has played many more innings at 3B. Here is what they have done respectively to date.
- In 1,606 innings Youk has committed 18 errors in his career at 3B = 0.01120 errors per inning. Lifetime fielding percentage of .997 (not all at 3B)
- In 15,640 innings Beltre has committed 224 errors in his career at 3B = 0.01432 errors per inning. Lifetime fielding percentage of .957
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knew Youk was a nice 3rd baseman..didn’t think he was that good…nice job again
I think you just did,Lol
Looks like Nolan Ryan is looking to scare the Yankees out of signing Lee. has reported interest in Crawford. Did Theo Epstein get traded to the Rangers? Wonder if they’ll rent all of the hotel rooms in Houston?
Lowrie…….will be OK at SS, put him there and let him play
“knew Youk was a nice 3rd baseman..didn’t think he was that good”
————-
Youk is absolutely a solid defender
of course, I thought using errors to grade defense was so 2001.
“of course, I thought using errors to grade defense was so 1901.”
Fixed.
“Lowrie…….will be OK at SS, put him there and let him play”
———-
I was hoping the Sox would trade Lowrie. He’s a really nice guy… wish I could root for him.
I’m sure he’ll be fine for them, nothing special, but an acceptable bottom of the order guy.
lol Rich.
thanks.
I guess w/their shoestring budget the Padres didn’t want to take on any major league salary.
Still, I’m surprised Hoyer didn’t insist on Bard (who’s still very affordable.)
How the heck can Youk have a .997 lifetime FLD% when he has a .966 FLD% as 3b?
# hardwired7 December 4th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
I guess w/their shoestring budget the Padres didn’t want to take on any major league salary.
Still, I’m surprised Hoyer didn’t insist on Bard (who’s still very affordable.)
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they won’t give him up…..he’s their closer of the future & maybe sooner than later
He’s a capable 3b man though.
GB
Nothing less confusing. From Carig
“…the exact annual figures will depend on how the Yankees and Jeter’s camp decide to structure what is essentially a fourth year on the contact. The sides are still “tweaking” the financial structure of that fourth year, which would then impact the dollar value of the first three seasons.
“It’s very unusual,” the person said of the fourth year, which will not be a traditional option year.
The person with knowledge said the fourth year will include a combination of guaranteed money and compensation that will also be tied to incentives.”
“How the heck can Youk have a .997 lifetime FLD% when he has a .966 FLD% as 3b?”
—————-
you forgot to apply the WCYF logic factor
Other teams (the Cubs, for one) were in on Gonzalez, Joeman. The Padres were the ones w/the hammer, not the Red Sox.
It smells like quid pro quo to me. The Red Sox groom Jed Hoyer and help him get to the next level, then conveniently pluck SD’s best player for absolutely zero proven major league talent.
LMAO. pat, that thing reads like a military howitzer repair manual.
# hardwired7 December 4th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Other teams (the Cubs, for one) were in on Gonzalez, Joeman. The Padres were the ones w/the hammer, not the Red Sox.
It smells like quid pro quo to me. The Red Sox groom Jed Hoyer and help him get to the next level, then conveniently pluck SD’s best player for absolutely zero proven major league talent.
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this must happen quite often where certain GM’s get along and deals are made
hardwired7,
and the NBA fixed the draft so the Knicks could draft Ewing and Bettman fixed the draft so the Pens could draft Sid the kid and Obama wasn’t born in the U.S. Conspiracy people crack me up
.994 Tom not .998
.966 at 3rd
Thanks for the correction.
BD (Boston Dave) December 4th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
“How the heck can Youk have a .997 lifetime FLD% when he has a .966 FLD% as 3b?”
*********
Because Youk has played other positions as well as 3B, 1B, LF, RF and a few at 2B.
Fair enough.
I’ll take off the tin foil hat.
BD (Boston Dave) December 4th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
“How the heck can Youk have a .997 lifetime FLD% when he has a .966 FLD% as 3b?”
*********
Because Youk has played other positions as well as 3B, 1B, LF, RF and a few at 2B.
——————-
stop taking other people’s comments and making it look like I wrote them. I did not write that.
I’m not sure what’s worse – that, or your inability to understand what I actually did write.
Yikes!
“Because Youk has played other positions as well as 3B, 1B, LF, RF and a few at 2B.”
————-
second, why not just admit you were wrong?
You wrote “Lifetime fielding percentage of .997 (not all at 3B)”
Youkilis has a .997 % at 1b, not overall. You were wrong.
GB
The deferred money is a necessity because they may need a few extra years to figure out what they really owe him when all is said and done.
Pat M.
Thank you! Yankees will get Crawford. It’s becoming more and more obvious that they’re shopping Joba, Swisher and Cervelli. Gardner too if he were healthy but they’ll have to wait on that as he’ll be portrayed as the 4th OF for now.
It seems like RF will be filled via trade.
I say screw it, go for Shin Shoo Choo. I don’t care if he’s a lefty.
pat December 4th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
GB
The deferred money is a necessity because they may need a few extra years to figure out what they really owe him when all is said and done.
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I need to try that deferred payment stuff. Go get my groceries and arrange to defer payments for a couple of years.
previous post
BIG AL
As someone posted earlier, let it go. Don’t keep harping on with your view which has the support of only that mediot, Lupica.
GUESS again. There are MANY Yankee fans pleased with the handshake but still shaking their heads at the “feel free to solicit other teams” crap and the “just a ballplayer” remark. UNNECESSARY. This little lohud community ain’t the entire yank universe. it left a bad taste in my mouth like when you eat a clam or oyster and you swallow the grit from the ocean floor and go “ewww!”. sure its over and that’s a blessing, but you know what i think is really in play here? Randy is being muzzled because you guys don’t want to think of management as the bottom feeders they are in respect to longtime yankee players which I get but also see irony in people telling him to ‘get real,’ etc. reality is the yankees dealt jeter dirt undermined him in public and tried to bring him to his knees and imply he’s washed up and lucky to be still in the fold. you don’t want to think ill of them so you keep trying to shut Randy up. when I read such a post as Randy’s I’m feeling represented and glad that there are people not ready to give the yankees a pass on this. it will fade with time but the sour taste lingers and why shouldn’t he say so? he’s right too that Jeter had leverage. why do you think Cashman was doing that elf and bandana act? it’s call PR. they scrambled to make the GM look more human after those clumsy but totally strategic comments from the FO, then they went into damage control mode.
yeah its great that it all worked out and the yankees gave a little but you still can’t put that horse back in the barn just yet. bad, bad taste.