What’s next?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 04, 2010 
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As you might have gathered, Sam and I are big fans of the West Wing. We quote it in our video chats, we quote it when we sit next to one another in the press box and we go out of our way to quote it in emails to one another. Lucky for us, we sit next to Mark Feinsand at Yankee Stadium, and he’s one of the few people in the world who actually enjoys our President Bartlet references.
And among Bartlet’s go-to phases is this one: What’s next?
Short. Simple. To the point. One thing is done. There’s no need to discuss it any further. What’s next?
For the Yankees, Mariano Rivera seems like a done deal, and Derek Jeter seems close behind him. There’s a chance these deals could be finished by the end of the weekend — by the time Brian Cashman is scaling that building in Stamford in an elf costume — meaning the Yankees can quickly turn their focus to the Winter Meetings and their most pressing need: Fixing the rotation.
It’s not time to shift attention yet. The Yankees still have to lock down their own icons, but that seems like a formality at this point. Then they can get to work on Cliff Lee.
That’s what’s next.
Cliff Lee is job # 1.
They’re definitely getting Lee and they’ll add a LH reliever. The open question is do they look to upgrade the offense, and if so how.
Rich-
If A-Gon is gone then I think they at least have to consider it.
well looks like SD is going to trade AG to the Red Sox for minor league players and a possible player off their roster…….
# Giuseppe Franco December 3rd, 2010 at 6:22 pm
The Red Sox aren’t getting Gonzalez unless the Padres get a major haul in return.
We heard this crap all last offseason too and it amounted to nothing. He’s still a Padre and the team was much better in 2010.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:28 pm
Giuseppe Franco -
That sounds more like a wish list from a Sux fan.
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# Giuseppe Franco December 3rd, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Indeed, Al.
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# GreenBeret7 December 3rd, 2010 at 6:35 pm
San Diego is this close to the NL West top and they’re going to sink their next 2-3 years and risk losing what fans they have? Not likely. If Gonzales is dealt, it’ll be mid season, if SD falls out of the race. He’s also going to get Teixeira money. A lot of money and farm for somebody that may not play until early to late May.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:40 pm
GB7 -
And not to mention, nobody knows yet how he’ll be coming off the injury. The Sux have been talking AG since last winter. I don’t see that trade happening unless Boston offers much, much more than prospects.
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# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:42 pm
To all the Red Sux fans trolling here, getting AG for prospects only, sorry it ain’t happening, it’s called mental masterbation, keep dreaming.
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MTU
I agree, but as I said somewhere on the last thread or so, I would go for Werth not Crawford. It looks like, however, that they have no interest in Werth and that he too will be a RS.
Lee is job #1. But if boston pulls off this trade, I would seriously consider signing Crawford (unless boston signs him too). Werth doesn’t interest me as he’s not a game changer.
If Gonzalez becomes a Red Sox, then Crawford should be #2: Once Crawford is on board, teams will make offers on the glut of starting-caliber outfielders, and we’ll take the best offer that fits our needs.
Next the bullpen needs shoring. Mariano, Joba, Robertson, Mitre, Logan and Nova works fine by me, for now, until they get that other lefty. Mitre is just a place-holder who cans spot start or long relief, but he could lost that to Nova.
Joba could be on the block. No not Swisher+Joba for Heath Bell, that’s too much for a reliever with 1 year left before FA. But I would consider Gardner+Joba for Soria.
Rich-
I think the Yanks prefer cc to Werth.
This OS just got a whole lot more interesting.
The Sux have raised the poker stakes IMO.
What a beast the AL East is.
Whew !
“The open question is do they look to upgrade the offense, and if so how.”
Montero over Cervelli
the real Jeter and Tex
a rested and healthy full year of Alex and Jorge should all help.
Other than that, Unless they are moving an OF, I don’t see a lot of offensive openings.
The Sox just made Cliff Lee a bunch of money by switching their insurance to…
well, they did make him money… because the Yanks probably just upped the amount they’re willing to pay to counter the AGone acquisition.
BD-
IMO the Yanks were gonna pay CL a sh*tload anyway.
Gonna be at least 6 years worth.
they only way I can see them adding offense is at the expense of Lee not coming here, adding Crawford trading say Gardner in a package for a (SP)…but really how much of a upgrade is Crawford over Gardner
if Im Cashman I would sign Lee ASAP and then turn to my buddy Kevin Towers and make 100% sure there isn’t a deal that can be made for Upton that makes sense for both sides.
# blake December 4th, 2010 at 9:21 am
if Im Cashman I would sign Lee ASAP and then turn to my buddy Kevin Towers and make 100% sure there isn’t a deal that can be made for Upton that makes sense for both sides.
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he’s going to need to do something & the problem is if they don’t add Lee then what
The Yankees should stick to the plan they have had all along this offseason.
The Sox acquiring A Gon shouldn’t change that.
Blake-
Here’s a hypothetical for you.
Let’s say you could have cc for money only
OR
Upton thru trade with 4 players involved. (Montero not included).
Which deal do you prefer ?
….The Yankees should stick to the plan they have had all along this offseason.
The Sox acquiring A Gon shouldn?t change that.
That.
# LGY December 4th, 2010 at 9:27 am
The Yankees should stick to the plan they have had all along this offseason.
The Sox acquiring A Gon shouldn’t change that.
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but if they add JW also…then things have to change, to much hitting to go along with a good pitching staff..
as for the red sox , they’re losing beltre and victor martinez so just adding adrian Gonzalez doesn’t necessarily improve their offense.
it seems to me the red sox would have been better keeping vmart and beltre and keeping their prospects.
beltre was a really good player in fenway.
he was better than arod last year .the guy can play.
The Yankees don’t need to change their off-season plans.
The Red Sox still have starting pitching and bullpen issues.
As good as Gonzalez is, take a look at the numbers Beltre put up last year. No short order to match, or beat, those numbers.
They have no depth in their rotation and bullpen, and drained their system of their better prospects to get Gonzalez.
They now have to sign him to a long term deal.
From the Yankees perspective, you just stick with your plan.
SJ-
Would your opinion stay the same if the Sux add Werth too ?
Maybe getting CC2 was always a part of the plan.
Good move by BOS letting Beltre go,, as good as he played in 2010, he has a history of ramping up the effort in a contract year, then dogging it afterwards.
I think the trade for A-Gon + two draft picks more than make up for the loss of Beltre.
This trade for Hoyer is going to define his career as a GM and determine how long he is running the ship in San Diego.
Dealing with his old buddy Theo only complicates the matter more because some fans will have the reaction that he is doing Theo a favor or however you want to phrase it.
You have to assume he values the package he is getting very highly. Time will tell if he is right.
MTU -
Crawford for money only. Losing top prospects for a player that’s had shoulder problems the past 2 years, is not someting I’d gamble on.
I’d rather have Crawford, and look forward to those top prospects being there for my future needs.
Al-
Thanks for your take.
Back to this SD-boston thing. I can’t see this deal taking place unless one of the following are included: Bard, Lowrie, or Ellisbury in that order PLUS 3 minor-leaguers.
Adding Bard allows them to trade Bell, but forces boston to stick with Papelbum, which I don’t think they want to do, so boston won’t trade Bard. I think they’d let Lowrie or Ellisbury go in a minute, or trade Scutero and keep Lowrie, but at least 1 name from the ML roster has to be included.
MTU,
hard to.answer that without knowing which 4 players. Upton is 6 years younger, a lot cheaper, and IMO fits theirs needs better than Crawford does though.
I think Jayson Werth is the most overrated player in this year’s FA pool.
He’s the classic case of a guy who will get much more money against the kind of player he really is.
When you drain your farm system, ramp your payroll up to new heights, get older AND still have holes in your pitching, you have no room for error.
Everybody has to produce and everybody has to stay healthy.
Highly unlikely over the course of a season.
The Red Sox have no starting pitching depth.
Without pitching depth, how much better is their offense today? Not that much, IMO, to offset their pitching questions.
Blake-
You tell me which players. Just leave out Montero.
If NYYs Yankees make any deals beyond Lee (and or Crawford), I would move Swisher (not likely SD takes Gardner until healthy) and Nova or Chamberlain for Bell. NYYs can’t resign Bell, but, they will get 2 top tier picks the following year. The only issue would be Cashman’s willingness to pay that talent and salary for a set-up guy.
SJ-
I take it that’s a no.
After having said that, I would prefer re-upping Kerry Wood.
GB-
I wouldn’t make that trade.
SJ44 -
Good point, I think we’re all forgetting the numbers A-GON will put up, have to be measured against the numbers the RS lost with both V-MART and Beltre gone. Those are some tough numbers to lose and make-up with the addition of one player, unless they add Werth. It still might be close to a draw.
The Saux getting Gonzalez is a good move for them, but I think it means they aren’t going for Beltre. Its not quite a wash, as that means Youkilis will be most likely going to 3rd, but it isn’t the same as adding a SP like Lee.
Crawford would be a nice addition, but I don’t see it being a big upgrade over Gardner unless the Yankees are not certain about Gardner’s health. Crawford has a little more power, but he doesn’t hit a lot of HRs.
Swisher has more potential for power than Crawford, Granderson has more power and if he has his swing worked out that might be all the upgrade the Yankees will do in the OF.
The Saux still will have some holes to fill in, I expect them to pick up either Werth or Crawford. I think Crawford will be on the Angels though, and Werth makes more sense for them.
“As good as Gonzalez is, take a look at the numbers Beltre put up last year. No short order to match, or beat, those numbers.
They have no depth in their rotation and bullpen, and drained their system of their better prospects to get Gonzalez.”
sj44-
nice to have something we agree on
as good a reputation that curt young has, john farrell wa a really good pitching coach. he really had a positive effect on lester especially.
the red sox appear locked in with their pitching staff right now and een red sox fans are starting to hate papelbon.
the red sox will have to do a lot more than sign adrian gonzalez to overtake the yankees.
Would you rather be the Redsox with Gonzalez and a completely barren upper minors or the Yankees possibly adding Lee or Crawford with a top 10 farm system in place?
GB7 -
Why can’t we re-sign Bell if we get him in a trade, too expensive? If that’s the case, re-think Kerry Wood at a different salary than his option.
I for one think that the Red Sox depth in the SP is fine, they go 5 deep with Wakefield and two young kids that pitch innings in 10 because of injuries….at this time they are deeper than the Yankee SP
Only way Crawford makes sense (assuming they sign Lee), is if Andy retires.
If he does, they could add Crawford, have one of the kids be the fifth starter, and keep the payroll in the 220 range.
I don’t see them taking the payroll to 240, which they would have to do to sign Lee, Pettitte, and Crawford.
as much as i like swisher, crawford, gardner, and granderson would cover an awful lot of real estate in the outfield .
MTU December 4th, 2010 at 9:43 am
GB-
I wouldn’t make that trade.
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If an outfielder has to be moved, Swisher is the logical choice. Health isn’t his issue. He was banged up last year at the end because he banged a couple of baseballs off of his knee.
Any trades would only be because of signing Crawford. Again, I would just as soon the Yanks re-sign, Wood, but, that isn’t likely.
Werth is a very good hitter, and he has done it in the playoffs.
He’ll get overpaid, just like Crawford, but he will do serious damage if he plays half his games in Fenway.
so Big Al & GB whats your take on the AG trade to Boston for minor league players only
BOS makes up for the loss in offense of Beltre and VMart in 3, potentially 4 ways;
- AGon
- Return of health of Pedroia
- Return of health of Yuke
The fourth would be adding a Werth who will huge in that park.
Think of the balance in the middle of BOS lineup,, you have 2 LH sluggers Ortiz and Agon, coupled with 2 solid bats in Pedroia and Yuke. Not an easy line-up to navigate, then throw in a RH like Werth they will have the best LU in the game.
SJ, good points.
MTU,
Betances or Brackman (not both), Nova, Romine, Joba, Gardner, etc……pretty much the same as before.
Montero > Red Sox lineup
Yeah I said it.
BIG AL December 4th, 2010 at 9:46 am
GB7 -
Why can’t we re-sign Bell if we get him in a trade, too expensive? If that’s the case, re-think Kerry Wood at a different salary than his option
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He’d want long term closer money, and isn’t likely to want to set up for anyone. including Rivera.
Boston better hope they can sign Gonzalez long term and reasonable. Not even Gammons can overhype their farm system now.
Adding Gonzalez and Werth puts that team at or over the luxury tax John Henry clearly wants to avoid, including the $10-12M Papelbon will see in his final arbitration year.
Except for Pedroia, Boston is not strong up the middle with the catching being the weakest of all.
Let any of the 5 starters go down with injury and the farm system offers nothing as a fix.
Too many things have to go right before they can lay claim as a top team.
GB-
I don’t necessarily think an OF’er has to be moved. GGBG becomes #4. It would mean upping the payroll. Don’t know if they want to go there. If htey shed salary the OF’er to go might be up for grabs.
Agree with you on wood vs. bell.
Wakefield is shot. Dice-K is terrible.
Beckett has been hurt two of the last three years. Even when healthy, he hasn’t been good in awhile.
Lackey was not good at all last year.
Lester and Buchholz are solid.
They have no depth on the roster, or in the minors, to supplement the pitching staff.
Their bullpen, outside of Bard, is terrible and that includes Papelbon.
Their pitching is a huge question mark.
Swisher+ for a set up guy. Gross!!
SJ44,
Don’t see the Yankees going anywhere near 220M….. 2 years ago Hal refused to let the Yankees add 1M at the trading deadline.
What kind of contract is Gonzalez going to get? Its gotta be in the Tex neighborhood.
7-8 years/20+ mil.
# JK December 4th, 2010 at 9:53 am
SJ44,
Don’t see the Yankees going anywhere near 220M….. 2 years ago Hal refused to let the Yankees add 1M at the trading deadline.
When the Sox make moves, things change.
to keep up with the yankees pushing their payroll , it appears the red sox are going to be pushing their payroll limits too.
that may be shortsighted because they really should keep something in reserve for rebuilding their wall for when montero knocks it over when he visits fenway the first time.
# randy l. December 4th, 2010 at 9:54 am
to keep up with the yankees pushing their payroll , it appears the red sox are going to be pushing their payroll limits too.
that may be shortsighted because they really should keep something in reserve for rebuilding their wall for when montero knocks it over when he visits fenway the first time.
I agree with this 100 percent
The Yankees better hope that their aging players had out of context seasons and/or Montero’s learning curve isn’t steep, otherwise, they may need a bat.
Randy-
The Yankees took out special insurance just for that.
# GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2010 at 9:42 am
After having said that, I would prefer re-upping Kerry Wood.
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Odd how there hasn’t been any talk about Wood at all. I guess they’re having a hard time establishing his market value.
I’m w/you. He’s already proven he can handle NY, and if he’s amenable to setting up he is worth the extra $$$.
I figure the sox will get agon. Ellsbury, Kelly and or Rizzo plus another prospect it three? Tex money. Definitely.
GB7 -
Even if he knew he’d be the EIG for 1 season, and step into the closer job when Mo left. The Yankees could afford to pay him closer money 1 season early, if they felt it would mean not having to hit the open market, or lose top prospects to get a closer when Mo retires, a smooth transisition so to speak.
I don’t see wood coming back. The yanks already got mo for an
Last time I checked, stacked lineups don’t usually win World Series. Solid, consistently good pitching and an adequate lineup that gets hot at the right time does.
I wouldn’t fall into the trap of the “one ups-manship” game with the Red Sox. We did that from 2001 to 2008 and we saw that didn’t work.
H-Wired, the only team that I’ve seen connected with Kerry Wood is Houston. almost nothing else on him.
I don’t see wood coming back. The yanks already got mo for another two years. Yanks aren’t giving closer money to an eighth inning guy and wood could probably get a multiyear deal at closer salary from other teams.
AG going to Bos for just minor league players is a steal….
I thought the cubs were interested in bribing him back?? No??
The one thought I have though is even if Andy comes back, which I think is a good possibility, it might be his last year. Signing Crawford would push the payroll this year, but Posada will be done (I think he is ready to retire after this season), Andy will probably retire, freeing up the payroll for having Crawford even if it means going over for this season.
I don’t think it is necessary, but Crawford is a good player who is in the mold of what the Yankees have been picking up. Good character and good player. The Yankees have some decent speed in Gardner and Granderson, but Jeter is losing some speed, Alex has lost some speed, Teix runs as though he’s in sand, Swisher isn’t quick, Posada is slow.
I don’t think it highly likely that the Yanks pick up Crawford, but I could see them fitting him into their plans.
Let’s wait and see if the trade does go through, and what players are in the deal. Right now no one knows, and the sports writers are all guessing. Many a deal falls apart near the end; Lee > Montero anyone.
What Boston does makes no difference to me, They aren’t my concern. What NYYs do is all I have interest in.
What concerns me as a Yankee fan is that AG is only 28 years old. Seven years of facing him all year, that’s tough.
The Red Sox is not going to sign both Werth or Crawford. It’s one or the other and maybe not even both.
There are other teams besides the Red Sox that are interested in them.
Besides, both are overrated and are absurdly expensive, like what Jeter’s next contract will be.
GB, I hear you. Let’s see what happens. You know I’ve long advocated for Crawford, even last year during the discussions on Holiday. Gardy’s performance makes it less important to sign him, unless his injury makes him less likely to improve as a hitter.
Still, my off-season moves would be as follows:
Re-sign Jeter, Mariano & Andy, and it sounds as if we’re almost 2/3 of the way there.
Sign Lee.
Sign Crawford.
Sign or trade for a lefty bullpen arm.
Add a legit 8th inning reliever.
Use the kids (Laird, Nunez, Pena) for the bench.
“What concerns me as a Yankee fan is that AG is only 28 years old. Seven years of facing him all year, that’s tough.”
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He is 29 in baseball years.
His new deal would run from his age 30 season on.
Sunny, MLBTR did speculate in October that Wood might finish up in Chicago where he started, but that talk seemed to fizzle out pretty quickly.
Hopefully, the longer he sits on the market the lower his price tag becomes.
“Seven years of facing him all year, that’s tough.”
The San Francisco Giants did that and came out just fine, with a World Series trophy to boot.
Let’s not make him out to be a Joe Dimaggio here.
mtu-
going back to when tresh first came up with the yankees, for me, looking forward to a new yankee coming on the scene is one of the best rites of spring training.
i’ve got a good feeling about montero.
MLBTR-
A-Gon a done deal pending an extension thru a window.
# GreenBeret7 December 4th, 2010 at 9:59 am
H-Wired, the only team that I’ve seen connected with Kerry Wood is Houston. almost nothing else on him.
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the Cubs have been in contact with Wood
Randy-
You are not alone on that.
# BIG AL December 4th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Let’s wait and see if the trade does go through, and what players are in the deal. Right now no one knows, and the sports writers are all guessing. Many a deal falls apart near the end; Lee > Montero anyone.
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OK Big Al
Heyman.is saying that Gonzalez wants to use the Teixera deal.as a template for his extension….problem.for the Sox is.that he would be signing such a deal 2 years older than Tex did. Long term comittment for a franchise that doesn’t like that sort of thing……they had to re-energize their fanbase though if they wanted to keep up with the Yanks……this move is as much about that as it is anything.
Simon, Feliciano seems to be the name bullpen lefty, but, I wish they could find a lefty that could get right handers out as well or nearly as left handed hitters. Seems to be one of those wing and a prayer signings.
I would not sign Crawford. He is too expensive and the contract he is looking for is too long.
The last thing the Yankees need is another big, long contract.
2013 and beyond will be a scary time for this organization with huge immovable contracts for aging veterans while other younger more nimble teams will make us look like dinosaurs.
Keep away from Crawford.
Yogi Mantle -
Keep in mind there is a lot of money coming off the books next year, and Cashman could sell the idea that a player like Crawford does not come along as an FA very often.
Next year coming off the books;
Posada – $13.1M
Marte – $4M
Igawa – $4M
Andy – $12M ?
That’s roughly $25.9M off the books, and that pays for Crawford and an EIG.
Tex signed on with the Yankees for his age 29 season. Gonzalez’s extension would start in his age 30 season.
If he asks for the same “type” of deal it would be 7/157. Hopefully he just insists on the same exact deal as Tex and gets the 8th year.
I’m thinking it’s Kelly , Rizzo plus more
They’d need to get Kelly, and Rizzo as their 1b of the future.
“That’s roughly $25.9M off the books, and that pays for Crawford and an EIG.”
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You have to factor in raises, arbitration, and bonuses.
SI_JonHeyman
jeter deal at hand. may be finalized today. very creative deal for about $16 mil a year. final hurdles include how 4th yr will be treated
I know I’m late
A-Rod is looking at one of his $6 million HR bonuses in 2012.
SI_JonHeyman jeter deal at hand. may be finalized today. very creative deal for about $16 mil a year. final hurdles include how 4th yr will be treated
The landscape has changed.
Time to walk the snake killers.
Blake
Tex turned 29 in year one.
Gonzalez will do the same.
I would love to see them throw Bucholz into that package. Losing him will hurt them more.
LGY December 4th, 2010 at 10:05 am
He is 29 in baseball years. His new deal would run from his age 30 season on.
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No, actually the fact is he is 28 years old until May. And he will be “playing” for Boston from the age of 28 on.
It will be interesting to see how the RS handle the extension for AG. I don’t see them getting a discount just because they are Boston.
MTU December 4th, 2010 at 10:13 am
The landscape has changed.
Time to walk the snake killers.
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Having mouse toys that kill garter snakes is not impressive.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 10:14 am
LGY December 4th, 2010 at 10:05 am
He is 29 in baseball years. His new deal would run from his age 30 season on.
************
No, actually the fact is he is 28 years old until May. And he will be “playing” for Boston from the age of 28 on.
I break down players like this
28-29
29-30
30-31
so on and so on.
Ken_Rosenthal Source: Jeter with #Yankees will be 3 yrs,$15M-$17M. No guar 4th yr, no vesting option. 4th yr called “creative, hybrid” solution.” #MLB
This could be a doozy
LGY -
You are the detail guy, I’m just an in the ball park guy, but, yes you’re right, but, I still think there will be enough flexibility to do the deal, if they truly want to. It does mean paying a larger luxury tax as well.
I think Boston could be painting themselves into a corner with the money AG is asking for, they won’t have any flexibility to do much if he gets what he wants, and they sign Werth for $70-80M.
Carl,
I stand corrected…..still hope they give him.8 years.
Jeter deal is done pretty much.
On to Lee!
NCTPadres Hearing that #RedSox package for Adrian Gonzalez includes: Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo and Reymond Fuentes. #Padres #MLB
Casey Kelly, Reymond Fuentes in the Gonzo deal so far.
Have a good day folks.
Wow, the Sox got Gonzalez? That sucks, but I can’t be too upset – I knew the Sox would do a few major things. That is a fantastic move for them.
I don’t get this idea that the Yankees can’t multi-task……..but anyway, as Lee is not taking offers, they can’t do anything with him until he does.
Hoyer must be looking to get rehired by the RS.
Rizzo has put up pretty good power #s to this point in the minors:
http://www.baseball-reference......zzo-001ant
that still seems like a pretty feeble haul for SD, though, imho.
Great deal unfortunately for Boston. One of the best young hitters in baseball. They get him for chump change in 2011 as well which will help them in the short term.
When they sign Werth, scary good. Lester and Buchholz are studs. I think it’s likely Lackey has a better year learning how to pitch in the AL East, and if Beckett is healthy they will be very tough.
If I am Cash and Hal I do whatever it takes to sign Lee and Crawford. Cut Hank’s therapy sessions if you have to.
SD still didn’t answer a real need and that’s a good outfield bat and a legitimate 3rd baseman. I wonder if the bring Kouzmanoff back.
John Lackey is what he is.
John Lackey is what he is, I agree, a pretty good number 4 starter.
No, actually the fact is he is 28 years old until May. And he will be “playing” for Boston from the age of 28 on.
*******
This is not correct and therefore not a fact.
MLB calculates birthdays with a cut off date.
May is before the cut off date. He is considered 29 basically when last season ended.
He is signed for one more year. Therefore as a FA he would be considered 30 at the start of his deal.
Boston us acquiring a 29 year old player.
Man if Dan Hayes is right — Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo and Reymond Fuentes? Really?
I love all these automatic assumptions on how the Red Sox will be.
All of their pitching questions will be answered in the affirmative.
Why play the games?
Don’t drink the Kool Aid. They drained their farm system for a first baseman and now have no room for error.
Big gamble with no guarantees. Especially if guys get hurt. Which they do every year.
OK LGY pat yourself on the back as you play your silly semantic games.Trophy is in the mail.
The Yankees don’t have great pitching depth either – I give the Sox the edge now, but if the Yankees get Lee, I’d probably give them a slight edge. The Sox offense willl be better than the Yankees, though, so overall I think the Sox probably are a bettter team. The Yankees have more than a few question marks in their lineup and rotation.
Boy I hope Feinsand is wrong about Nova in the 2011 rotation.
SJ44 – Why are your opinions opinions and others assumptions? My take on the Sox is just an opinion. I don’t know who will get injured, no one does.
West Coast Yankee Fan
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nice call on the AG trade last night…a few people here thought it wasn’t going to happen
John Lackey was one of the worst pitchers in the AL last year who was blessed with outstanding run support.
There was nothing “pretty good” about his performance last year.
He’s as much a question mark as Burnett is.
Wow, so far a terrible deal for SD…………they must have been desperate to dump AGon
Betsy December 4th, 2010 at 10:30 am
The Yankees don’t have great pitching depth either – I give the Sox the edge now, but if the Yankees get Lee, I’d probably give them a slight edge. The Sox offense willl be better than the Yankees, though, so overall I think the Sox probably are a bettter team. The Yankees have more than a few question marks in their lineup and rotation.
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tell like it is
Let’s look at this Agon deal for what it is: a one year deal that takes 3 of bostons top 10 prospects and puts them in SD.
Then they have to sign him to a big contract.
So, they get gonzalez to play 1B. They lose victor martinez. They lose adrian beltre. They lose their top prospects.
How exactly are they so much better?
Betsy,
Remember when you said the Sox would have to give up way more then Casey plus 2 other players. Big time players don’t bring in huge hauls anymore like they used to
Thanks joeman.
I never cease to be amazed at how some Yankee fans are willing to overrate the RS.
Apparently this is the rallying cry in other front offices when dealing with Boston:
“Bend over, here come the Red Sox.”
WTF? Do these other teams have any sense at all???
Kind of silly trying to determine who has a better team since the Yankees haven’t finished their off-season work, isn’t it?
# SJ44 December 4th, 2010 at 10:32 am
John Lackey was one of the worst pitchers in the AL last year who was blessed with outstanding run support.
There was nothing “pretty good” about his performance last year.
He’s as much a question mark as Burnett is.
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dif is he’s a 4/5 SP for the Sox, AJ as of right now is a #3 with the Yankees
Is everyone so sure the Sawx are going to sign Werth, too? Not so sure about that.
I wouldn’t panic yet; AGone is a great player but they lost too big producers in Vmart and Beltre….This move does not change the game.
And I don’t think the Sawx offense is better than the Yanks’. Yes the Yanks have some question marks, players coming off down years, but who’s to say how well Big Papi will do this year and they just lost two big offensive pieces.
# Rich in NJ December 4th, 2010 at 10:33 am
I never cease to be amazed at how some Yankee fans are willing to overrate the RS.
Were you shocked Betsy came in and posted that?
Betsy – how is the sox lineup better than the yankees? It definitely wasn’t better last year and now Gonzalez is a better bat than both Beltre and vMart? Really?
Penny wise and pound foolish.
How much has that 1.5 million a year the Sox didn’t offer Tex cost that organization?
Trades, FA signings, prospects and more prospects, no post-season, Yankee world championship, and now even more prospects. How much better would they have been just to pay Tex the money. That was an expensive 1.5 million!
I think San Diego with their $38 million dollar payroll did not want expensive major league players. They wanted prospects that were cost controlled.
Youk, Pedroia,Agon, no catcher, Scutaro, Drew,etc…
Jeter,Arod, Tex, Cano, Swish,Grandy,Montero?,Posada….
Yeah the sox have a better offense?!?!
OK LGY pat yourself on the back as you play your silly semantic games.Trophy is in the mail
******
It is not semantics. The age of a baseball player especially one who is now looking for an extension is incredibly important.
I really don’t get what your problem is with being corrected.
Considering the situation and discussion it is important we deal with the right information.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 10:33 am
Thanks joeman.
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Big AL, GB & Joe Franco should be saying nice job also……but that won’t happen
# joeman December 4th, 2010 at 10:34 am
# SJ44 December 4th, 2010 at 10:32 am
John Lackey was one of the worst pitchers in the AL last year who was blessed with outstanding run support.
There was nothing “pretty good” about his performance last year.
He’s as much a question mark as Burnett is.
—————————————————————–
dif is he’s a 4/5 SP for the Sox, AJ as of right now is a #3 with the Yankees
Hes a number 4-5 but that doesn’t mean much when the order goes Beckett, Dice-k, Lackey.
The ideal scenario sees Lee signing at or shortly after the winter meetings followed by Andy’s announcement of returning for a final year.
Any other unfinished business would be the LH in the bullpen (Feliciano ?)
I have a hunch that Andrew Brackman will figure in as a RH bullpen option and Chamberlain gone in a late March deal for whatever is needed to start the season.
Only Chamberlain can change it by showing up to Tampa in pitching shape and be willing to learn how to repeat his mechanics by working with Larry Rothschild intently.
Right now means nothing since the season isn’t starting tomorrow.
Or, did I miss the memo moving up opening day.
No it’s not, SJ. Unless the Yankees shock us and get Crawford, the offense is the same. I hate to do this because I don’t think he’s a lock at all, but I was assuming Lee. What other big moves are the Yankees going to make? Even small ones………..No, I don’t think Hal is cheap, but he’s got a budget, so if we get Lee, I’m guessing any moves we make after that will be very minor.
This team is basically set except for the pitching………………but again, I assuming Lee is signing (because if he doesn’t, then the Sox are clearly better)
I sure don’t think the Red Sox are better than the Yankees at all. Not their pitching or hitting. Boston helped themselves immensely but they have holes to fill. Theo knows that. They have the money for Werth and they will IMO be a tough contender this season.
Better than the Yankees? No way.
Look at this deal from a SD fan’s perspective, you know one of the 15000 or so season ticket holders out there; their GM just traded their star player, a 40 hr guy, for a few prospects.
The SD fans maynot be many but you got to believe they aren’t stupid, they know AGON will get very expensive to keep and will be a FA after 2011, but this is their guy, one of the few reasons for them to bother getting off the beach and coming to PETCO field, and the best HOYER could do was to get a few MiL players? And they are coming from his former employer?
I don’t give a damn about BOS other than the fact they improved their team in 2011, but if this is really the trade then that has to go down as one of the single-handedly worst trades ever made and HOYER should be raked over the coals for it.
JM, are we assuming that the Yankees are all going to have bounce back years? I don’t think Jeter is done, but he still has to show it. Posada? Another question mark. Alex? Is he healthy? It’s fine to say the Sox ? don’t necessarily need to be answered in the affirmative, but either do the Yankees.
Deter deal rumors are now back to $15 a year. LOL
Derek Jeter Rumors: Saturday
By Mike Axisa [December 4 at 9:23am CST]
The Yankees and long-time captain Derek Jeter appeared to be closing in on a deal late last night, but there are still some hurdles that need to be cleared. Let’s keep track of latest surrounded the game’s active career hits leader throughout the day, with the most recent news up top…
* SI.com’s Jon Heyman says a contract could be finalized today. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports says that the deal will be for three years at $15-17MM annually, and that the fourth year option will be a “creative hybrid solution” that is not guaranteed and can’t vest. (Twitter links)
* Sweeny Murti of WFAN.com tweets that the Yankees worked deep into the night to get a deal done, and they’re talking about a three-year contract worth $51MM that includes a fourth year vesting option at $10MM. The two sides are reportedly “very close.”
Betsy December 4th, 2010 at 10:30 am
The Yankees don’t have great pitching depth either – I give the Sox the edge now, but if the Yankees get Lee, I’d probably give them a slight edge. The Sox offense willl be better than the Yankees, though, so overall I think the Sox probably are a bettter team. The Yankees have more than a few question marks in their lineup and rotation.
Boy I hope Feinsand is wrong about Nova in the 2011 rotation.
———————————————————————————————————————-
So all of the Boston hitters will stay healthy and perform better and their pitching staff will be better and healthier? I wonder why the Yankee hitters can’t get healthier and improve and ther pitching staff won’t improve?
They picked up Gonzales and lost Beltre and Martinez and no catcher. Their back-up starter is a 45 year old knuckle ball pitcher with bad knees and cranky back. They have a very unhappy closer on their hands and a 39 year old center fielder with a right fielder that hasn’t had a healthy season in 3 years. Yes, indeed…impressive.
My guess is that Jeter, Tex and Arod will have better seasons this year.
That alone puts us ahead of the rest.
You are right, Betsy, in that the Yankees have questions as well. But the difference IMO is the Sox’ farm system is going to be very thin after this trade and they don’t appear to have depth to help them if someone like Wakefield or Beckett gets injured….
Heyman on the AGon deal:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....?eref=sihp
If the Yankees don’t get Lee then the Sox have a better staff. As far as the offense goes I like the yankees overall in the regular season. In the playoffs against top pitchers i like the Sox. Needing to get on base I would take Youkolis or Pedroia over any Yankee at this point
Sabathia
Lee
Pettitte
Hughes
Burnett
Nova
If that’s our rotation in 2011, its the best in baseball.
We have the best closer in baseball.
We have a solid pen that will be improved upon in time.
Our offense last year had Jeter, Posada, and Granderson all, for the most part having miserable years.
Tex had a sub par year.
Our offense was the best in baseball.
Add another solid bat with Montero to replace Cervelli and our offense is improved already.
Lee isn’t a given in fact I’ll go out on a limb and say he stays in TEX…mark it down
JM, Casey Kelly wasn’t going to help them this year as he’s only in AA, so as to 2011, he wasn’t included in whatever pitching depth they do have. Sox are considered to be absolutely loaded in the lower minors, so this deal doesn’t really hurt them. Hoyer caved.
If they get Agon and Werth, chances rise we will go after Crawford.
Other than the money aspects, it seems like a no brainer to go after him.
I’m sure there are ways to lower the payroll.
Bottom line is whether Crawford wants to come here badly enough to accept a lesser deal from us.
Isn’t that a given that all teams in baseball have an issue or two or three? And that it doesn’t make much sense to talk about possible injuries; no one can predict them. Well, excluding Nick.
# joeman December 4th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Lee isn’t a given in fact I’ll go out on a limb and say he stays in TEX…mark it down
Since you agree with everything Besty says, I can say that I am not shocked.
Betsy,
He got a better package then others did for CC,Halladay,Lee and Santana. If anyone caved it was Theo who said he wouldn’t trade Kelly for a year of Gonzalez even if an extension was worked out
To the people saying how is Agon > Martinez & Beltre……
Here’s how…..If they get Jayson Werth now also (Which I would put all my money on since they need a right handed hitter now)….also lets not forget Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury all went down for very extended periods. You might as well say Boston signed Gonzalez, Ellsbury, Pedroia and Youkilis this offseason.
Projected lineup…. Ellsbury, Pedroia, Gonzalez, Youkilis, Ortiz, Werth, Drew, Scutaro, Saltalamacchia
Also think about this….. by letting Beltre & Martinez go and trading for Gonzalez & signing one of Werth or Crawford…..their payroll wouldn’t increase….atleast for 2011, it might actually be LOWER. Who said Theo isn’t smart? I really wouldn’t sleep on this offense…..they won 89 games without Gonzalez, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Youkilis.
Plus Kelly was being fast tracked and would prob be in the majors late next year or more likely in 2012
“Sox are considered to be absolutely loaded in the lower minors, so this deal doesn’t really hurt them. Hoyer caved.”
Keeping think that. The Sox farm system has taken a hit and has been weaken over the last couple of years due to trades.
Absolutely loaded in the lower minors with what? The only ones reporting that are Gammons, Law and fatboy. None of them have ever seen them. They’re going on Boston reports.
Hoyer had no choice. The Padres can not afford with their payroll to take on expensive major league players. AG was leaving.
I’m not trying to poopoo A-gon, he’s very good, but he’s pretty much just replacing Martinez’s as the 3 hitter, Yuke played just as good a 1B. They still have to replace Beltre’s bat to get back to where they were last year offensively.
Well, it looks like Boston had enough in their system to make the AG deal work. That has to be considered a success for their farm system.
Betsy–
How exactly did Hoyer cave?
Do you honestly think he didn’t do his due diligence all season on A Gonz and solicit offers from other teams?
This is his TRADEMARK deal. Trading the face of the franchise, and his first major move. I’m pretty sure he likes the pieces he’s getting back more than you do.
“This is his TRADEMARK deal. Trading the face of the franchise, and his first major move. I’m pretty sure he likes the pieces he’s getting back more than you do.”
He should, it was him and his top lieutenant that drafted them in the first place.
Mike_Boston,
They didn’t have Ellsbury the whole year,Pedroia wqas lost for most of the year and Youkolis was lost for a couple of months. Plus as good as Martinez is he is not Agon. Gonzalez could hit 45 bombs with Boston. Look at the numbers he put up in Petco with no protection at all. He was basically being pitched around every at bat
Lets say these are the lineups…..
Ellsbury – Gardner
Pedroia – Crawford
Youkilis – Cano
Gonzalez – Rodriguez
Ortiz – Teixeira
Werth – Jeter
Drew – Granderson
Scutaro – Posada
Salty – Montero
Pending Crawford comes to NY and Werth goes to Boston because they need a righty bat now theyre too lefty heavy. That is basically two offensively identical teams. It would all come down to timely hitting and good pitching
Think of it this way. If we wanted Agon Hoyer would be asking for Montero,Banuelos and someone else.
# Carl December 4th, 2010 at 10:48 am
# joeman December 4th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Lee isn’t a given in fact I’ll go out on a limb and say he stays in TEX…mark it down
Since you agree with everything Besty says, I can say that I am not shocked.
————————————————–
Betsy never likes what I say…
Didn’t you realize that “cave” is the new go-to phrase for “I don’t know who’s getting the best deal”? It’s going to be in vogue for about 2 weeks.
I was able to see AG play quite a few times the last couple of years. I think he is potentially better than his stats suggest. He was phenomenal in that ballpark with no protection whatsoever.
If both sides meet in the middle, where is the cave?
First – this AGon trade is made b/c Jed Hoyer used to work for the Red Sox – he was instrumental in drafting the Kellys, the Rizzos (Anthony Rizzo – please – poor man’s Brandon Laird – not entirely impressed with his jump to AA ball last year – where Laird crushed the ball in AA in a pitcher’s park in Trenton), etc
Second – the Yankees farm system is locked and loaded in the coming months and years for a killing trade of their own –
Third – bad job Betsy for overlooking that the Sox lower minor league system is NOTHING compared to the Yankees lower minors with the likes of Gary Sanchez (a Hanley Ramirez/Justin Morneau type talent) waiting in the wings to pounce on Charleston A ball pitching – Yankees have the advantage in the high and lower minors – plus – bad job again Betsy – the Yankees signing of Wilmer Ramos and DePaula (assuming visa) should scare the rest of baseball – that is another wave of prospects behind the Sanchez, the Williams, the Culvers, and Gumbs, the Gamels, the Reymond Nunez, the Ray Flores, the Marshalls, the Jose Ramirezs, the Mullees, coming in the other wave in front of them
“Betsy never likes what I say…”
Don’t worry about it, most here don’t like what she says.
Don’t worry about it, most here don’t like what she says.
=====================================
More don’t like how she says it…
Someone help me out here. Why wouldn’t we want a Heath Bell? Would he only agree to close, is that it? Money?
The Yankees would have to increase their payroll to around 231 M to add Lee Crawford and Pettitte, while subtracting Swisher for prospects.
144M committed, 15M Rivera, 17M Jeter, 12M Pettitte, 23M Lee, 11M arbitration cases per Baseball-Reference, approx. 18M for Crawford minus 9M Swisher = 231 million.
That doesn’t factor in a bench or bullpen.
Betsy
You have a habit of answering all the Yankees questions in the negative and every other teams in the positive IMO.
As of yesterday, Pedroia is still limping and they don’t expect him to be 100% going into ST.
The Sox have Salty and Varitek catching so anything the Yankees show up with can’t be worse.
They were going to non-tender their closer and the balance of their bullpen is Bard.
Dice-K is as big a mystery as AJ and I would count on Wakefield as much as the Yankees can count on Mitre.
Scutaro on his best year is Jeter on his worst.
The grass isn’t always greener.
Triple Short of a Cycle,
I’m not buying someone “could hit 45 bombs” until they actually do it hit 45 bombs in a season. Besides that has he demonstrated that he can play up to his standard in the fishbowl that is Fenway, no I don’t think so. He’s been doing it, up until now, in one of the worst sports cities in the country. Project all you want, the NYY still have the edge in the lineup no matter how many injuries excuses you can come up with.
Wow, Crawdaddy, that was such a nice, thoughtful comment…… what the hell did I do to you?
Crawford will have a great time in Anahiem.
The problem with “cave” is it is not a meaningful professional term useful in discussing contract negotiations or trades. It is overly simplistic in that it assigns an emotional, subjective component to a process that is objective and unemotional. It also suggests that one party is intentionally giving in which is hardly ever the case.
Until the rosters are set, it’s silly to compare what Boston has to the Yankees. There is plenty of time for that later in the offseason.
isn’t Gonzalez supposed to miss the first 3 weeks of Spring Training too?
sounds to me that cashman basically got what he wanted. only went up 1-2 M/ year, not a big deal. Convinced Mo to stay at 15M instead of 18M and come back when others offered more. I feel good about the chances we see Lee and Pettitte next.
Looks like Boston finally got what they wanted. A-Gon and didnt have to give up Buchholz. Good prospects or not, this is why the Padres will always suck (even last year blowing a huge lead by losing 10 in a row).
“He’s been doing it, up until now, in one of the worst sports cities in the country.”
Wrong.
Until the rosters are set, it’s silly to compare what Boston has to the Yankees. There is plenty of time for that later in the offseason.
===========================
When you are a negative nancy, there’s no time like the present, hell why wait?
“Wow, Crawdaddy, that was such a nice, thoughtful comment…… what the hell did I do to you?”
It’s the truth, you get into more arguments with other posters about your stated opinion than anybody else here or at NYYFan.com
I think the deal works out for both teams. The Red Sox have finally answered for losing Tex. Now they have their long term solution at first. Now if they could only find a shortstop for the long term. The Padres had to get rid of him and did pretty well for themselves all things considered. A good trade is something that hurts both teams. Giving up Kelly hurts and giving up AGon hurts as well
Acquiring Crawford comes down to Pettitte.
Jeter is taking a 5.5 million paycut. Vazquez is off the books for 11 million. Johnson for 5.5 million – Winn and Thames add another 2 million – add Berkman and Wood at their prorated – that comes to another 4 million – and then Andy’s 11 million.
That is about 38 million in salaries off the books. Figure 23 million for Lee – that leaves 15 million to play with (before arbitration though). If you sign Crawford to 19 million – your are no 4 million in the hole – add in the expected 12 million in expected arbitration raises, raises in Tex’s and Cano’s contracts – now 16 million in the red – trade Swisher’s 9 million contract – you are now 7 million in the hole – but with no lefty in the pen – if you go Feliciano or Choate – probably bump up to 10 million raise in salary – but NO Andy Pettitte under this scenario. Pettitte probably replaced by Nova or if Noesi (who is supposed to be better) shines in ST.
# BIG AL December 3rd, 2010 at 6:42 pm
To all the Red Sux fans trolling here, getting AG for prospects only, sorry it ain’t happening, it’s called mental masterbation, keep dreaming.
At the very least Adrian Gonzalez-to-the-sox has us seriously discussing Crawford throughout the blog. It’s about damn time.
Heath Bell will be dealt. Joba Chamberlain will be dealt. There is a deal to be had. Joba can be effective as an NL West starter and is a very valuable cost controlled starter in that division. Bell/Robertson/Rivera is a 6 innning game for other offenses. Add logan, maybe Nova for the long role, and another lefty, and then pen is a significant strength.
Its the Rays who need to be worried. Even if the Yankees don’t get Lee and Boston doesn’t get another bat, TB’s line-up and BP took too much of a loss to beat either team out for a playoff spot.
San Diego is one of the most beautiful and livable cities in America but it has always been a tortured sports city to some extent. I mean a $38 million dollar payroll? And their stadium issues are legendary.
Huge rumor iright now concerning Majic Johnson moving the Chargers to Los Angeles.
First off, there is no way a team is going to give up a starting pitcher of Buchholz caliber for a player like AGon that is one season away from free agency. It wasn’t a realistic outcome after the season Buchholz had in 2010. Just look at the traded players for Tex back in 2007 and 2008, they were all prospects with no major league experience.
Whew !!!!!
That Boston catching duo of Saltalamacchia and Varitek is flat out scary / lethal.
Blake,
Congrats on your Jeter prediction. If it shakes out to 4 years 61 with the vested option, you were on the mark. I predicted 4 years 56 million. I would think that if the 4th year is for only 10 mil, the Yankees designed it so that it’s likely to kick in.
pat,
I am totally not doubting you but do you have a link about Pedroia not being ready for sprint training? I am interested since he is a big target of mine in fantasy baseball
Sometimes it’s too easy to forget there are really people involved…..
PeteAbe RT @caseykelly23: Just waking up beautiful day in sarasota about to get some breakfast. Can’t worry about things out of your control
Els-Pedroia-A-Gone-Youk-Werth-Ortiz would be a sick line up.
Yanks are still better tho
Hitting-wise, both have plenty if healthy.
It’s all about pitching.
CC-Lester
Lee-Buccholz
Andy-Beckett
Hughes-Lackey
Burnett-Dice-K
Bullpens will decide it and I like our 1-2 better.
Crawdaddy,
I’ve enjoyed your posts and perspective on this blockbuster deal for the Sox.
Stoneburner-
See my 11:01 calculations. The payroll would have to increase some 17M dollars to 231M, to fit Lee, Pettitte, Crawford, minus Swisher under the Yankee XMAS/Chanukah-tree/bush! Agree?
joeman,
Its amazing that so many people here didn’t think that Gonzalez would get traded for prospects. Did they think Hoyer was going to land Lester and Youkolis?
First off, there is no way a team is going to give up a starting pitcher of Buchholz caliber for a player like AGon that is one season away from free agency. It wasn’t a realistic outcome after the season Buchholz had in 2010. Just look at the traded players for Tex back in 2007 and 2008, they were all prospects with no major league experience.
__
Except they are working on an extension. So it won’t be a 1 year rental.
# 108 stitches December 4th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Whew !!!!!
That Boston catching duo of Saltalamacchia and Varitek is flat out scary / lethal.
—————————————————–
how much better is the Yankee catcher position minus the kid who’s not a given to be on the team in the spring
Montero can throw the ball back to the pitcher.
no most of us KNEW they would get him for prospects, but believe that they should have had to give up something important like Buchholz (if they got an extension).
Mike_Boston,
He hit 40 with no lineup protection and in a pitchers park. Look at his home and away splits. His first choice was Boston as well. How many hitters in their prime that the Red Sox get disappoint? Renteria? Lugo? Most don’t merely duplicate their numbers they get better.
ac1,
Buchholz isn’t a prospect
Triple
There’s was an aticle yesterday about Ortiz’s golf tournament and it mentioned Pedroia is there but is still limping. He was hoping to get clearance to start running around Christmas and he hoped to be 100% for spring training but they told him he needs to take it slow.
“San Diego is one of the most beautiful and livable cities in America but it has always been a tortured sports city to some extent. I mean a $38 million dollar payroll? And their stadium issues are legendary.”
Yet their MLB attendance was better than 12 other teams last year.
“Huge rumor iright now concerning Majic Johnson moving the Chargers to Los Angeles.”
I believe that when I see it. Charger fans would crucify Roger Goodell if he lets that happen.
Oakland, Tampa, Arizona just to name a few have a lot more issues than San Diego.
Adrian Gonzalez will rake in YS with our short RF porch.
The Sox lineup with Adrian Gonzalez and Werth + a healthy Pedroia and Youk is frontrunner for the best in baseball.
Thanks Pat
Crawdaddy, that’s not only on me……and I don’t think that’s the case for sure at NYYfans.com. In regards to one particular subject, I think they are all a bunch of first-class hypocrites. Outside of that subject, it’s not a problem. If people don’t like what I have to say, then there’s nothing I can do about that. I believe in being honest about my opinions…………
Now that the ultimate troll is gone see how the baseball talk flows?
This is the way it should be: Let the RS get whomever they please.
It’s the way it should be. Yankees-Red Sox, you can say the name, the more they get, the more we get.
TB is dead.
Agree Tar. I didn’t say they were the worst.
Let it flow…
TB is definitely dead BUT the Blue Jays are 2 years away from becoming the next TB.
“I’ve enjoyed your posts and perspective on this blockbuster deal for the Sox.”
Listen, like any other Yankee fan, I hate the trade because it makes the Red Sox better in 2011. However, the impression that the Red Sox didn’t give up anything of value for AGon is wrong. These Padre executives are looking out for their own skin and know what they’re doing which is getting the best deal they can get from the Red Sox which are prospects they know very well because they drafted them. This is no BA hype on their part.
I love nothing more than to see AGon signing a 100+M deal with Sox and Werth signing for another 70-80M. The more long-term deals the better. Unlike the Yankees, the Red Sox can’t absorb any bad deals that go sour on them because their revenue streams are not as deep as the Yankees.
Furthermore, it would be a mistake to sell Cashman short here. He knows very well that to combat good hitting, you assemble the best pitching staff you can get and that’s what he’s going to do for 2011.
Besty is Rocketbooster on NYYFANS?
Man I hate that place.
PTBNL from Sox also in the SD deal.
JackCurryYES Both Jeter and Rivera have agreed to defer money as part of their contracts, concessions that helped push the deals along.
WCYF
No problem. I think San diego get an undeserved bad rep when it comes to sports.
Betsy,
Whatever, it doesn’t matter as the subject of the day is AGon and other baseball-related news.
Deferring money this year to get Crawford would be a way to go.
JackCurryYES I’m told the specifics of 4th year option remains final hurdle in Jeter-Yankee talks. Deal could come in 24-48 hours. No hiccups expected
Isn’t it all about this year with big money coming off next?
“PTBNL from Sox also in the SD deal.”
I bet it’s a player just drafted this past June.
It’s the way it should be. Yankees-Red Sox, you can say the name, the more they get, the more we get.
“He pulls a knife you pull a gun, he sends one of yours to the hospital you send one of his to the morgue! That’s the Chicago way.”
After all the flack Jeter has gotten he agreed to defer money on his deal.
Let’s remember that the Angels will go to the wall for Crawford. I don’t think he’s worth that kind of money. Let the Angels tied up a bunch of money for him.
Triple Short of a Cycle,
JD Drew ring a bell?
Besides what has already been discussed Theo did something that Cashman never does as a rule, double pay for a guy, not only do they have to commit a very large deal with him they also had to deplete their farm. When the NYY makes big deal it’s either one or the other, never both. Smart baseball, double paying is bad for business obviously.
“He pulls a knife you pull a gun, he sends one of yours to the hospital you send one of his to the morgue! That’s the Chicago way.”
======================
Sounds like something Rex Ryan would say, or at least, think.
The Angels could also go for Beltre and R. Soriano knowing that they can’t compete with the Yanks if the Yankees want Crawford.
“After all the flack Jeter has gotten he agreed to defer money on his deal.”
If you want to be paid for value to the franchise even after your retirement, then you get paid after you retire. Easy.
“The Angels could also go for Beltre and R. Soriano knowing that they can’t compete with the Yanks if the Yankees want Crawford.”
I think Crawford is their number one target. If so then he’s going to be the guy they overspend to get.
After all the flack Jeter has gotten he agreed to defer money on his deal.
===============================================
Jeter is and will always be about “Class.”
He never said a word during this whole thing.
His agent bid high, the Yanks bid low, contrary to it being a “fair” deal, it was still low and they knew it.
They meet in the middle, Jeter defers money. CLASS.
Craw,
Agon on the Sox eliminates Beltre from the picture and narrows the focus for him. The Angels need a slugger as much as they require a table setter. The middle of their lineup is non-existent. I see them signing Beltre and R. Soriano.
Mike_Boston,
I will give you Drew as well although I wouldn’t put him in the epic fail category of Renteria and Lugo. When healthy he has been pretty decent. I agree Theo broke his rule of double paying but Cash had signed off to do that as well for Lee as well as Santana
Mick. You nailed it. Well said.
“Agon on the Sox eliminates Beltre from the picture and narrows the focus for him. The Angels need a slugger as much as they require a table setter. The middle of their lineup is non-existent. I see them signing Beltre and R. Soriano.”
I never said they would’nt sign Beltre nor Soriano for that matter, but I think Crawford is the Angels number one target and will get the most money in his contract.
Agon on the Sox eliminates Beltre from the picture and narrows the focus for him. The Angels need a slugger as much as they require a table setter. The middle of their lineup is non-existent. I see them signing Beltre and R. Soriano.
==========================
No Vlade?
YankeesWFAN Jeter’s 3 yr deal will be worth around $51 million. 4th year option is less but contains many elements that will affect final number.
Theo is smart. If he deals his prospects he accumulates more. Look at what he has done so far this winter.
All this Jeter crap about class, classless or greedy is just plain noise. At the end of the day, a good businessman concluded a contract negotiation for the most money he could get in 2010.
All this talk about Boston… ugh.
The thing I want to point out about the Yankees farm system is that its heavily stocked it the areas that are the biggest need for most teams: catching and pitching. A lot is made of the fact that we don’t have a lot of infielders/outfielders coming through our system but the reality is if we keep placing a premium on drafting and molding good pitching/catching prospects we can always make the trades we need to fill out the other (less difficult to develop) roles on our team.
Boston will be good with AG.. but the people saying they’re also getting Youk, Ellswhateverthehellhisnameis, and Beckett/Lackey next season as well because those guys were injured are ridiculous. I could say the same about Alex and Tex who I believe will put up better numbers than last years. I’ll throw Jeter in there for that matter because if Lackey is a sure fire bet to have a bounce back season so is Jeter right?
How are there Yankee fans afraid of the Red Sox?! Start a support group and get your acts together. This is absurd.
That’s fine, Craw………there’s not a lot more to say. The Sox made a great deal and they will be very good next year. It is what it is…………I expected nothing less than a huge off-season from them, so I think more is to come.
YankeesWFAN Jeter’s 3 yr deal will be worth around $51 million. 4th year option is less but contains many elements that will affect final number.
===================================
3500 hits.
Craw,
I guess the Angels can afford Beltre + Soriano + Crawford but I believe “Lost” when he says that Hal and the front office unanimously covet Crawford. When that high level of support exists in the Yankees inner circle, the Yankees usually get their player. When the Sox sign Werth, it will be clear that they were only talking to Crawford to drive up the price for the Yankees. This is an exciting off season to say the least…
10.22am: Rosenthal now hears from another source that it’s “highly unlikely” the Padres will move Bell (Twitter links). They could hold him to keep the fans happy, and because they might be able to fetch more at the trade deadline.
9:38am: Adrian Gonzalez might not be the only Padres star on his way out of San Diego. Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports hears from a source that they will “absolutely” trade Heath Bell, who is likely to get a sizable raise from his $4MM salary in his last time through arbitration (Twitter link).
———————————————————————————————————————-
10:34am: Rosenthal is now reporting that his source says that Rosenthal doesn’t have a clie.
“Theo is smart. If he deals his prospects he accumulates more. Look at what he has done so far this winter.”
He uses the system very well, but I think it’s going to change after the next CBA with no free agent compensation such as receiving draft choices for them.
The Angels are a tough club to figure out. They seem to be all in on someone, but don’t always pony up the big bucks. The economy in CA is tough, high taxes and they have been losing a lot of companies to other states that aren’t as punitive in regulations and taxes.
I still think the general opinion is correct that Crawford will be an Angel, but I wouldn’t count out the Yankees looking at him real hard.
I see Andy as coming back this year, but I think it will be his swan song if he does.
The Angels will probably make a splash to push them over the Rangers. I don’t see them laying low for another year. The big question is what type of splash are they going to go for? Speed or Power along with some pitching.
or “clue”
GB when will you understand that sports journalists are reporting what they know. They are not giving their opinion or making things up out of whole cloth. They report what they hear, that’s their job.
It would be nice if the Yankees could lock up Crawford, take him off the board and leave the Angels to fight Boston for Werth.
“I guess the Angels can afford Beltre + Soriano + Crawford but I believe “Lost” when he says that Hal and the front office unanimously covet Crawford. When that high level of support exists in the Yankees inner circle, the Yankees usually get their player. When the Sox sign Werth, it will be clear that they were only talking to Crawford to drive up the price for the Yankees. This is an exciting off season to say the least…”
I’m not convinced Crawford is a priority for the Yankees. If he is then yes, they will bid high for him, but that means taking the payroll up to a level they have been reluctant to do in the past. In short, the proof is in the pudding.
Craw, when they eliminate the compensation picks, I’m betting on changing the rules on trading draft pick positions, too.
Crawdaddy December 4th, 2010 at 11:40 am
I’m not convinced Crawford is a priority for the Yankees. If he is then yes, they will bid high for him, but that means taking the payroll up to a level they have been reluctant to do in the past. In short, the proof is in the pudding.
************
The payroll jumps up to an unprecedented level for 2011 alone. After 2011, Posada, Marte and Pettitte come off the books.
I think the Yanks would rather have Crawford over Swisher.
He and Gardner atop the lineup would give teams fits.
Be like Jeter and defer.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 11:40 am
GB when will you understand that sports journalists are reporting what they know. They are not giving their opinion or making things up out of whole cloth. They report what they hear, that’s their job.
————————————————————————–
speaking of no clue, the circle jerks
“Craw, when they eliminate the compensation picks, I’m betting on changing the rules on trading draft pick positions, too.”
I’m fine with both proposals.
RiverAveBlues RT @bkabak: Adrian Gonzalez is 0 for 8 in his career vs. Sergio Mitre. So *that* is why the Yanks resigned him.
Craw – How many have the Sox accumulated so far? Beltre, Martinez and Lopez get them five picks right? And they are giving up 3-4 max to get AG? And no major league players?
Theo is very good.
“The payroll jumps up to an unprecedented level for 2011 alone. After 2011, Posada, Marte and Pettitte come off the books.”
Yeah, but there’s always somebody else after 2011.
Mick,
I think if the Yankees sign Crawford, Swisher stays and Gardner becomes the 4th OF while he proves his health post-wrist surgery. Once healthy, Gardner will be dealt for an elite reliever.
Those 2 at the top clears the way to drop Jete in the order.
Always thought he should hit for more power anyway.
80-90 rbis in the 6 spot.
Crawdaddy December 4th, 2010 at 11:45 am
“The payroll jumps up to an unprecedented level for 2011 alone. After 2011, Posada, Marte and Pettitte come off the books.”
Yeah, but there’s always somebody else after 2011.
*************
True but the farm will be loaded with chips to deal for cost-effective solutions.
Yeah, but there’s always somebody else after 2011.
================
I dunno, this team looks set if they get Crawford.
Pat-
Do you know what happened to m ?
“I dunno, this team looks set if they get Crawford.”
Too early to tell.
Another reason I like my chances over the sox is the pen. How do you think Paps is feeling lately, coming off his worst year, continuing a downward trend the last few years, when he’s heading for FA, never a good sign and his GM tries to make a move for Mo who predictably laughed in his face. The sox pen needs a total overhaul while the NYY need 1 or 2 pieces maybe.
Getting closer…
JackCurryYES
I’m told the specifics of 4th year option remains final hurdle in Jeter-Yankee talks. Deal could come in 24-48 hours. No hiccups expected
19 minutes ago via web
JackCurryYES
Both Jeter and Rivera have agreed to defer money as part of their contracts, concessions that helped push the deals along.
16 minutes ago via web
JackCurryYES
Since Jeter and Rivera deferred undisclosed amount of money, they lowered average annual value of contracts. Helps Yanks luxury tax bill
6 minutes ago via web
“True but the farm will be loaded with chips to deal for cost-effective solutions.”
We’ll see…….
Even if the Yankees had the money for Crawford I don’t think he is worth it.
I think it would be a bad move and a bad deal for the Yankees.
Crawdaddy December 4th, 2010 at 11:44 am
“Craw, when they eliminate the compensation picks, I’m betting on changing the rules on trading draft pick positions, too.”
I’m fine with both proposals.
———————————————————————————————————————-
One thing that the owners may have concerns about is losing the draft system altogether in a lawsuit. Somebody’s going to eventually take baseball to court and challenge it.
Completely stunned by the package the Red Sox are getting Gonzalez for.
Stunned.
You’re telling me the Mets could not beat that package and didn’t need that player?
If the Mets put up Ike Davis and Mejia as the 1st 2 pieces they beat that package by a lot.
Either the rest of the league is filled with GM’s in love with prospects or Hoyer just did his old team a favor and will be out of a job sooner than he thinks.
Let’s not diminish this move. It makes Boston stronger for many years.
The Yankees need an answer to this move because right now last years team full of veteran guys who couldn’t hit their career batting averages (I’m talking Arod, Tex, Jeter specifically) cannot have another season like they did where they go into constant cold spells.
Cashman has to go get a bat and they have to wrap up Lee in pinstripes.
If we miss out on Lee our team gets weaker by him trading Montero for a replacement starting pitcher.
Big credit to Peter Gammons, ESPN, Baseball America and Theo for PR’ing the heck out of an empty farm system with no impact players to the point they could go get an MVP 1b for him.
If Gonzalez is healthy, he’s a better hitter than Texeira.
That package is a joke. Kelly and Rizzo headlining it is just laughable. How they were able to keep Kalish out of that deal is beyond me.
Hoyer is a moron. At least he goes to bed at night knowing when he’s tossed from SD for this deal failing for them he has a warm bed and a job waiting for him in Boston.
This is the way it should be: Let the RS get whomever they please.
It’s the way it should be. Yankees-Red Sox…
So it be written, so it shall be done. The return to natural order.
But let’s not forget to be wary of what we wish for.
MTU
I don’t. Her snark is missed. (Hi m if you’re lurking. David Ortiz found the store!)
But let’s not forget to be wary of what we wish for.
================================
It’s inevitable. Yanks-Sox, the rivalry.
G. Love,
Gonzalez would’ve been a 1 year rental for the Mets therefore they would’ve offered less. He wants to play for a perennial contender.
Pat-
I thought maybe you communicated with her off the board.
It’s like she just dropped off the face of the Earth, or should I say Hawaii.
She was funny and knew her baseball IMO.
Mike_Boston December 4th, 2010 at 11:48 am
“…. How do you think Paps is feeling lately, coming off his worst year…”
**********
I think you made an inadvertent error.
.270/.370/.529/.899
32 Home Runs
102 RBI’s
Epstein may have just upchucked in his oatmeal. Gonzalez is said to be asking for $25 mil (Ryan Howard deal).
Gonzalez has every right to feel entitled to a Ryan Howard deal. The Sox are making a huge commitment here and double paying. Even though their farm is overhyped, it’s now depleted.
Courtesy MLBTR.com:
10:52am: Morosi tweets that Gonzalez is seeking a Ryan Howard-like contract. Howard signed a five-year contract extension worth $125MM earlier this year.
Good for him. Hope he asks for 8 years $200MM.
I just saw Sandy Alderson on MLB network.
From what he was saying I don’t even think they have the money for the very cheap 1st year of Gonzales. They look headed for 4th place again.
G. Love,
were you saying the the same things about the packages received for Santana,CC,Lee(Both times) and Halladay?
And I hope Werth asks for 6 years $120MM
The more money the better for AGon and the Yankees.
That’s not news to Theo I’m sure.
“Epstein may have just upchucked in his oatmeal. Gonzalez is said to be asking for $25 mil (Ryan Howard deal).”
He can thank Casey Close for that…
# Crawdaddy December 4th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
The more money the better for AGon and the Yankees.
———————————————————————————-
why
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 11:56 am
Mike_Boston December 4th, 2010 at 11:48 am
“…. How do you think Paps is feeling lately, coming off his worst year…”
**********
I think you made an inadvertent error.
.270/.370/.529/.899
32 Home Runs
102 RBI’s
———————————————————————————————
Sorry WCYF but it’s you that made the error, if you read my post I was talking about the pen, paps=Papplebon, why would I be talking about Ortiz in the pen being replaced by Mo (I assume you thought I was talking about Ortiz as Paps)?
Stoneburner December 4th, 2010 at 10:58 am
First – this AGon trade is made b/c Jed Hoyer used to work for the Red Sox – he was instrumental in drafting the Kellys, the Rizzos (Anthony Rizzo – please – poor man’s Brandon Laird – not entirely impressed with his jump to AA ball last year – where Laird crushed the ball in AA in a pitcher’s park in Trenton), etc
Second – the Yankees farm system is locked and loaded in the coming months and years for a killing trade of their own –
Third – bad job Betsy for overlooking that the Sox lower minor league system is NOTHING compared to the Yankees lower minors with the likes of Gary Sanchez (a Hanley Ramirez/Justin Morneau type talent) waiting in the wings to pounce on Charleston A ball pitching – Yankees have the advantage in the high and lower minors – plus – bad job again Betsy – the Yankees signing of Wilmer Ramos and DePaula (assuming visa) should scare the rest of baseball – that is another wave of prospects behind the Sanchez, the Williams, the Culvers, and Gumbs, the Gamels, the Reymond Nunez, the Ray Flores, the Marshalls, the Jose Ramirezs, the Mullees, coming in the other wave in front of them.
______________________________________
This is definitely a nice group of young prospects and doesn’t even begin to tell the tale. DePaula is a coup at 700G’s and Wilmer Romero is young and raw but very toolsy. We quietly and pretty cost effectively signed 3 very coveted IFA’s. Also love the way we are now stockpiling up the middle position after going after pitching and catching. Although Ramon Flores and Romero could end up corners. Good to see Ravel Santana will be in the states next year. Still DePaula is the one I most want to see.
WCYF,
Exactly. Theo knew all along. This is a massive double pay and a huge commitment but a wholly conscious decision on his part.
“why”
Arlready explained in my previous posts about longterm deals and the Red Sox.
Mike_Boston you are right, apologies. I thought you meant Papi.
I said when Howard signed that deal the Phillies screwed whichever teams signed AGon and Fielder.
# Crawdaddy December 4th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
“why”
Arlready explained in my previous posts about longterm deals and the Red Sox.
———————————————–
missed it…
word is that swish thinks he’s a goner…
Couldn’t agree more with G. Love.
Casey Kelly is projected to be a #3. Sox don’t need Rizzo if they have Gonzalez for most of the next decade.
Sox replenish their system with draft picks from VMart and Beltre.
No Kalish? No Iglesias? No Bard? Trades for superstars are supposed to hurt. This is like a knee scrape.
The Sox got 4 picks for VMart and Beltre and 1 for Lopez. And it’s 12/4
No worries WCYF…Ortiz is not the problem unless he reverts back to his 09 start, then the natives will get restless, the pen on the other hand is going to be a huge issue for them once again unless they make some major moves this winter.
Hoyer is overrating his specs. Typical
Triple,
Good point. The package the Twins took for Johan was definitely a joke. You are correct there. The Lee trade with Texas though gave them a major league ready 1b that is supposed to be great. Boston gave up nothing close to Smoak in this deal.
Kelly got shelled in AA. He doesn’t have impressive numbers at any level. He’s all hype about pitchability.
Rizzo was a non prospect before last season and only hit .270 in the minors. That doesn’t scream future all star to me.
In the CC deal Milwaukee gave up Matt Laporta who was also a step away from the majors and consensus top propsect in the league. And that was for a 1/2 season rental.
The Padres front office just signed it’s own death warrant. I know they think this deal buys them time to wait for these little nuggets to develop, but I think once the reality hits that they traded MVP candidate with local ties for Red Sox overhyped puffins, the preppies in the front office will be working under Theo again before they know it.
That package should have easily been beat by other teams looking for a franchise player.
I hate the Sox with a passion. But I respect them and never underestimate Theo, he is a great GM. And a $170 million dollar payroll is nothing to sneeze at.
BJK,
Iglesias can’t hit a lick. you want to trade for the next Rey Ordonez? Kalish is a 25 home run 85 RBI guy. decent but not great. Why would the Padres want a closer when they have a great bullpen as it is.
I have heard Kelly being projected as anywhere from a 3 all the way down to a 1. Lester was projected as a number 3 as well. If you remember he was offered in the Santana deal.
As far as trading for superstars. Did it hurt any of these teams that traded for Lee,Halladay,CC or Santana?
“One thing that the owners may have concerns about is losing the draft system altogether in a lawsuit. Somebody’s going to eventually take baseball to court and challenge it.”
—————————-
The interesting thing about if a player were to challenge the draft is that a lot of sports law academics have written that the player draft actually improves player bargaining power and competition over a pure free market in the context of professional sports leagues.
*compensation* not competition.
I hate the Sox with a passion.
=====================
Would you rather they be dead and buried or right up there with us so we can keep the rivalry alive.
Remember, the worse they are, the less fun.
No more epic playoffs.
If the Sox commit to a long term deal with Werth, he’d be the only fixture in their OF. Drew and Cameron come off the books and can be replaced cheaply with Ellsbury and Kalish. Scutaro comes off the books and can be replaced affordably by Jed Lowrie. Their offense is built around AGon, Youkilis, Pedroia and Werth (maybe). Bard replaces Papelbon as a cost-effective solution.
I hate to say this but it appears the Sox will have the money $$ to replace Ortiz with Fielder.
Boston may have picked up a couple of extra draft picks but it knocks them back another 3-4 years. Just like with the Yankees, not all of their hotshots are going to make it. They have one pitcher that would be close to giving them some help, assuming his late season call-up, Felix Doubront isn’t a mirage.
Regardless getting Gonzalez for Kelly, Rizzo, and Fuentes (if that is true) is an absolute steal and the Padres fans should revolt against this… The best guy you pick up for Adrian Gonzalez is a guy who (although he is said to have good potential) pitched to a 5.00 ERA in AA? You have got to be kidding me. No way I would have given up Gonzalez unless I was getting Buchholz and more back…. Stupid stupid trade.
I said it earlier and I’ll say it again, this is an absolute heist for BOS and SD fans, all 15 or so thousand of them, should call for Hoyer’s head.
It is an absolute joke that no other team could best BOS offer. He should be asked to resign as soon as all the papers are signed and physicals are passed.
The worst that can happen from BOS perspective, they do not sign A-GON, and he becomes a type a a year from now with two more picks for BOS.
Don’t be so sure this deal get’s done.
1. The Redsox have been notorious for trying to stick injury clauses in deals ever since the JD Drew signing and I doubt Agon and his agent will be having any of that with his shoulder.
2. He’s asking for Howard AAV money
3. MLB changed the rules on no trade clauses (no more no trade clauses only as good as anybody else on the team). Now the Sox will have to pony up full no trade clauses for big time players they sign.
G. Love,
Kelly was also playing at an advanced level for his age which Theo likes to do. You could have said the same thing about Hanley the year he was traded to the Marlins. He was coming off a poor year as well and a lot of scouts were mixed about his projections as well.
Smoak has potential and I know it is a very small sample size but he did nothing at Texas and nothing once he got to Seattle. Montero is and was a far better hitter then Smoak. Maybe Smoak turns into an all star but at this point is nothing more then Chris Davis part 2
SJ44 December 4th, 2010 at 7:48 am
I love people who think the Yankees “caved” on the Jeter deal. It’s clear math isn’t there strong suit.
The original offer from the Jeter camp was 5/115. The Yankees was 3/45.
He will sign a 3/51 contract with a vesting 4th year option of 10 million.
The contract will be between 54 and 64 million LESS than his offer, depending on whether the option kicks in or not.
His AAV is also down considerably.
In other words, the final deal is much closer to the Yankee offer than the Jeter offer.
That’s not getting “fleeced”. It’s negotiating a deal that works for both sides.
—
Try reading the posts.
“The Daily News suggests a three-year deal worth $19 million per year. It could have a vesting fourth year “with reachable parameters””
People were saying the Yankees caved if the offer was 3/57, as was reported, not 3/51 with a 4th year 10 mil option.
BOS farm system might have taken a hit for sure,, but they still retain pieces, such as an Ellsbury, Lowrie etc.. that can help get some help.
It is astonishing to me that SD is apparently not getting 1 ML player back, much less a star.
Casey Kelly is the most over-hyped pitcher and his numbers to this point show he should hardly headline a deal.
Hoyer is a guy who is clearly an idiot and sentenced this franchise to years of mediocrity in a division ripe for the taking.
“Kalish is a 25 home run 85 RBI guy. decent but not great”
Don’t know if he’s actually going to be that good, but you’ve just described Nick Swisher.
Triple:
My opinion is the idea is to get the best pieces possible in a trade. You get Bard, you can spin off Bell. Iglesias is top prospect not named Kelly. And I’ll take a 25 HR/85 rbi guy any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 4th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
I hate the Sox with a passion. But I respect them and never underestimate Theo, he is a great GM. And a $170 million dollar payroll is nothing to sneeze at.
———————————–
IMO (and this is just my opinion), I really don’t think Theo is that great of a GM… He inherited almost that entire team in 2004. Acquiring Schilling was a great move but I feel like that was more of the DBacks trying to mess with the Yanks and their pure stupidity (Casey Fossum really?). Really what moves has he made that have been so great? Beltre worked out but his last offseason was absolutely atrocious. Cameron was horrible, Lackey was horrible… He’s overrated as a GM.
It’s terrible that the Sox farm will be thoroughly replenished with 5 compensation picks for Beltre, VMart and Lopez.
At least the Sox will lose their own pick when they sign Werth.
I like Kalish. And if he does turn out to be a 25 HR/85 RBI guy, then he will be Nick Swisher with a better arm and slightly better D. I would take that especially since he will be under team control for a while. Kalish is a good ballplayer. Ellsbury and Nava on the other hand are not very good.
It is a wonder SD did not apparently insist on Ellsbury or Kalish. Or Buckholz.
Getting an Allstar has to be painful. There is no pain in this deal for BOS.
Hoyer is an idiot of the year candidate.
Let’s see Kalish for a full season before comparing him to Swisher or any other established player.
Bret The Hitman,
The Sox have to be more efficient in the draft because they have been a disaster in the IFA market since Theo took over. Replacing players that have made it to AA & AAA with draft picks is never a 1 to 1 deal. A low % of 1st rounders even make it to the upper minors. Go ask the Sox about #1 pick Jason Place.
GB
MLB NETWORK: A PEICE on Rin Santo after the break
Kalish at best would project to that. Doesn’t mean he will. At best Montero projects to Piazza/Miggy. Doesn’t mean he will as well. So Kelly being their number one ranked guy is just a product of the Boston PR machine hyping up their own guys? I don’t buy it. Every organization hypes their own guys. Remember Alan Horne. He was hyped on this board and by the Yankees
Alan Horne suffered numerous debilitating injuries during the course of his career, it was never a case of him not meeting expectations from a talent stand point.
Get your facts straight.
West Wing? That’s my favorite TV series. I bought the complete box set collection and still enjoy watching it. So indeed…what’s next??