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Back to the Magic Kingdom

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

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As much as I’d love to see Brian Cashman put on an elf costume and climb down a building in Connecticut, I’m instead making my way to Orlando for this week’s Winter Meetings. That means one thing: Cliff Lee.

Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera are done, and the Yankees focus will shift to the rotation, which is the team’s most glaring need. Of course, the Yankees aren’t the only team interested in Lee. The Rangers are also going to make a push, and the Dallas Morning News took a look at the backup options should Lee sign elsewhere.

They’re basically the same for the Rangers as they are for the Yankees.

1. Trade the farm for someone like Zack Greinke.

2. Hope for a remarkable resurgence from someone like Brandon Webb or Chien-Ming Wang.

3. Try to catch lightning in a bottle with an internal candidate. I’m looking at you Ivan Nova.

Obviously, the preference is Lee. My guess is you’ll hear his name a lot this week.

Associated Press photo

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379 Responses to “Back to the Magic Kingdom”

  1. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    I like Nova, but, I’d prefer Phelps and/or Noesi more. I’m believing that any trade will include Nova.

  2. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    I’m 100% for signing Cliff Lee now at all costs and saving trade chips for a RF and setup guy.

    Upton and Marmol/Madson

    Hey Chip!,

    If the Yankees were to somehow acquire Upton, would you trade Swisher for Madson? He’d rake in the bandbox and give them a 1-2 year cushion for D. Brown.

    Madson is one of the best setup guys in MLB.

  3. Betsy December 5th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    The Yankees desperately need Lee, so unfortunately, the Yankees are going to have to give this guy whatever he wants. It seems our rotation is always in bad shape…………..and we also need Andy as well.

  4. upstate kate December 5th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Chad
    we all appreciate the sacrifices you make :)
    warm and sunny Orlando vs watching Cashman do the elf thing in the cold…I know which I would pick!

  5. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    1 hour and 48 minutes to go. Who “caves”?

  6. kd December 5th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    gb,

    who do you think they are targeting in a trade? i’d love to see king felix in pinstripes, but then there’s reality.

  7. blake December 5th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    GB,

    I think the Sox do
    one way or another….I think they give him his money or make the deal without an extension. Can’t see them.sending him.back to SD at this point.

  8. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    I really believe that even if an impasse on the terms of the AGon contract the trade goes through.

    Too many face saving issues going down with the Sox front office in the eyes of the fans. They must proceed.

    Unless of course the negotiating process, the Sox trying to do what the Sox do, a cheap deal sours AGon on Boston.

  9. mick December 5th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    mick December 5th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    What guarantee is there that Agon stays on?
    Will moving the fences in reel him in?
    Or will we step in with our fence already in.
    Move Tex to 3rd, put Agon at 1st in 2012.
    Let Arod DH.

  10. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    upstate kate December 5th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
    Chad
    we all appreciate the sacrifices you make
    warm and sunny Orlando vs watching Cashman do the elf thing in the cold…I know which I would pick!

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Somebody needs to be in Conn., mingling with the crowd looking for this guy.

    http://s81.photobucket.com/alb.....reuger.jpg

    he goes by the alias of Randy l.

  11. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    In my opinion, this is how this will probably go down, in general terms.

    Lee’s agent in an effort to get the most money will in essence play musical chairs with all the teams. Each high offer will be mentioned to the other teams still sitting at the table privately without mentioning the team. They will drop out one by one. The final two left will get a chance to top the other, at that point it will be like an auction. Eventually, one will fold and the remaining team will have the high bid.

    Then, Lee will decide if he wants to go to the winning bidder’s ballclub and make a decision.

  12. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    GB7

    I know Nova is still young but his lack of ability to go past 5 innings was a concern to me.

    What was his innings count after last year?

  13. upstate kate December 5th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    sox need to do something. Last year was sold as a “bridge year”, that wont fly again this year. Fans are already upset V-mart was let go.

  14. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Of course what we’re likely to see is AGon like Bay spends a season in Fenway then exits as a FA at the end of the season for greener pastures.

  15. Cashman needs to go December 5th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    I’m sure someone has already asked – but for the yankee minor league system gurus out there – whom do the yankees have that would equal the 3 crap players the redsox “gave up” for adrian gonzalez?

    and please don’t tell me montero or one of the almost ready stud pitchers since the 3 guys the sox gave up are barely in double AA..

  16. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    kd, I think the Yanks get Lee and Pettitte. As far as offensive help, I think that it’s either signing Crawford or getting a 3 or 4 team trade going to bring Upton to NY.

  17. Fran the original December 5th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Let’s hope Cashman makes it down from the building successfully. He needs to get to the winter meetings.

  18. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    GB7

    I know Nova is still young but his lack of ability to go past 5 innings was a concern to me.

    What was his innings count after last year?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Nova’s innings were somewhere around 190 innings. I’d have to check the exact numbers.

  19. Robin December 5th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Why would the yanks have to “trade the farm” for Grienke, when the Sox only had to part with Casey Kelly for AGon?

  20. mick December 5th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    It seems our rotation is always in bad shape
    ===========================
    Bad shape? No comment.

  21. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    Maine, not counting ST, Nova had 187 innings pitched.

  22. blake December 5th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Gb,

    Hope you’re right on the Upton front. :).

  23. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    With just a few hours until the deadline to negotiate a contract extension with Adrian Gonzalez, Dan Roche of WBZ is reporting that the 2 sides are not close and that an extension may not be finalized before the negotiating window runs out at 2pm Sunday.

    http://bosoxinjection.com/2010.....-question/

  24. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    blake December 5th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
    Gb,

    Hope you’re right on the Upton front.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    I’m not always correct, but, I’m always hopeful, Blake.

  25. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    GB7

    What’s you thought on his inability to go past 5 innings?

  26. MTU December 5th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Blake-

    The Yankees have options. ;)

  27. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Maine, it was an issue in NY but never in the minors. Whether it was nerves, hitters or inexperience, I don’t know. He has multiple pitches and all good enough. In NY, he just seemed to hit the wall at the same spot in the game every time. He’d allow a walk and a couple of soft singles through 4 innings and then BANG. He’d get hammered.

  28. blake December 5th, 2010 at 12:33 pm

    Personally I think Upton is a much better fit.for the Yankees need.than Crawford. He would cost prospects but is much younger and much cheaper over the next several years……its all about price to acquire though. Its not the same situation as with Gonzalez where there is an expiring contract.

  29. MTU December 5th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    Maine-

    He’s a fair-minded kind of guy and wants to gives others a chance to pitch too.

  30. MTU December 5th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Blake-

    Aren’t you a least a little concerned about the shoulder ?

    I am. A least a little.

  31. kd December 5th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    gb,

    you’re probably right. but why would the diamondbacks trade upton? injury? attitude?

    seems a little off to me. you don’t see the mariners shopping felix or the marlins shopping stanton

  32. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Just speculation and adding to GB’s point. In the case of a trade for Upton it could be the Yankees have all the chips necessary to make that trade, and I’m sure they do, but would need to move Swisher before making it and why he is rumored to being shopped.

  33. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    GB7

    Your assesment is in line with mine.

    My question is, why didn’t he improve over time?

    If he continued to pitch like that it makes him a real BP killer.

  34. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    I hope Sox fans realize that under the CBA, teams and players may not do anything designed to circumvent the luxury tax.

  35. MTU December 5th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Maine-

    Most young guys struggle their first year in the bigs.

    Maybe it’s as simple as that.

    Part of a learning process.

  36. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Why are the D-backs shopping Upton?

    Pitching.

    They believe they can contend in the NL West if they model their team after the World Champion SF Giants who were all pitching, weak lineup.

    The D-Backs won it all with Johnson + Schilling + a bunch of scrubs.

    I believe they’d be willing to trade Upton for top young pitching. Since the Yankees have depth there, the team is a perfect match for AZ.

  37. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    I would move Swisher for Madson to make room for Upton.

  38. MTU December 5th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Cliff Lee is about to become the highest paid Pitcher in Arkansas. ;)

  39. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Maine, I haven’t a clue as to why he didn’t get better, but, I can’t imagine them finding the answer during ST. He’s only go a max of four or so innings and the problem happens after that.

  40. Nick in SF December 5th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    “The D-Backs won it all with Johnson + Schilling + a bunch of scrubs roids.”

    Fixed. :cry:

  41. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    I was thinking Kevin Towers could give us a sweetheart deal for Justin Upton, if Towers is indeed the GM of ARZ like he think he is

  42. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    GB7

    It seemed to be a lack of staminia.

    For the first 4 innings he didn’t seem to be intimated.

  43. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    Poor Swisher. He’s an emotional lad and I know he loves being a Yankee so much.

  44. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    kd December 5th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    gb,

    you’re probably right. but why would the diamondbacks trade upton? injury? attitude?

    seems a little off to me. you don’t see the mariners shopping felix or the marlins shopping stanton

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Not sure that they really want to move Upton, but, that team needs just about everything. ‘Zona screwed up last year by shipping of two of their best pitching talents. They need young pitching, offense that isn’t swallowed up by strikeouts, defense in the outfield and if they also trade Reynolds, a third baseman. There aren’t a lot of teams that can fill all of those needs, so, I’d think 3 or 4 teams need to be in volved. They also need at least one name drawing card and that could be Greinke to start with.

  45. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 12:51 pm

    “Somebody needs to be in Conn., mingling with the crowd looking for this guy.”
    “he goes by the alias of Randy l.”
    gb7-

    oh yeah, this would be you giving cashman a pep talk on rappelling down tall buildings.

    “Maybe we should chug on over to namby-pamby land to get you some self-confidence, you Jack Wagon,”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA

  46. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Maine, that stamina issue could be it. His innings jumped almost 50 innings over the previous year. All I know is that when he crashed and burned during the game, it happened fast.

  47. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    Good read from Cafardo; an excerpt on players of interst to Yanke fans:

    “There has been a frenzy of activity in baseball the past few days, the kind we haven’t seen for a while. The accelerated dates for offering arbitration and non-tenders seems to have pushed trades and signings to happen even before the winter meetings convene tomorrow in Lake Buena Vista, Fla”.

    “It’s been pretty busy,’’ said an American League general manager. “There’s a more aggressive nature out there to get something done.’’

    As the Red Sox close in on Adrian Gonzalez, there are still big-name free agents in play and big names that may be involved in trades.

    Here’s a look at the hot players who could find new homes this week:

    - Carl Crawford. Will anyone really go eight years and $150 million-$160 million? For sure.

    The Yankees, who can pay Crawford a ton, are now in the hunt, though they haven’t yet held the recruiting meeting that so many major free agents tend to have with teams courting them. Crawford’s representatives have been saying to all interested parties that this negotiation may take a while because while there’s an obvious market, there’s also an emerging one. They want the Yankees and Rangers to get into it along with the Red Sox and Angels.

    It’s hard to imagine that the Sox would make an eight-year commitment, given that they did everything they could to get out of the eight-year, $160 million Manny Ramirez contract, even though Ramirez was an extremely productive player.

    Theo Epstein is not a fan of long-term deals; he views them as necessary evils at times. He dished out five years to John Lackey last winter but would go only so far with Jason Bay and Matt Holliday. The Sox were willing to go seven years with Mark Teixeira, who signed an eight-year deal with the Yankees.

    At the end of an eight-year contract, Crawford would be 37 years old. Speed guys tend to slow down after 32. Crawford’s power is starting to emerge, but would he be an ideal No. 3 hitter? That’s the question teams like the Angels will ask themselves. He is an excellent defender, though his skills would be somewhat wasted for 81 games in left at Fenway.

    Crawford is from Houston, and playing in Texas might be more appealing to him than Boston or New York or even Anaheim. There are other moving parts involved, too. The Yankees would have to trade Curtis Granderson or Nick Swisher before considering a deal for Crawford.

    - Cliff Lee. It seems to be a two-horse race between the Yankees and Rangers. The half-dozen other teams who once showed interest are watching and waiting to see how it plays out. Lee has been visited twice by the Rangers and once by the Yankees during the courting process. It appears the Rangers will draw the line at five years for the 32-year-old lefthander, but the Yankees could put it over the top with a sixth year.

    The question is, does Lee go to New York for the money or does he take a five-year deal in the $100 million range to keep his family in Texas, a mere hour flight from their Arkansas home? If he wants to be with a winner, Texas now falls into that category. We will see whether the convenience of being close to home and in a less-hectic market are indeed meaningful to Lee.

  48. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Apologies – didn’t realize it was that lengthy I will post link next time.

  49. Irreverent Discourse December 5th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    THe Dbacks are not shopping Jupton for pitching. They are shopping him so their new GM gets to use the others GMs in the league to evaluate his minor league system. Jupton was never going anywhere.

  50. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Thanks, Randy. I love R. Lee Ermy. What a riot. Brings back a lot of not so fond memories of basic training. The DIs would have people crying…some with laughter and that made the DIs even madder.

    Hope all is well with you and that you finally broke 100 on the links…on the first hole.

  51. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    You could argue that Crawford’s contract should not exceed the 6 years 17 million per guaranteed to Matt Holliday but it seems there’s far more competition for Crawford than there was for Holliday. Therefore, Crawford will get at least 17 mil per and at least 6 years.

    I’d say he gets 7 years, 18.5 mil per.

    7 years 130 million for Carl Crawford.

  52. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 5th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
    THe Dbacks are not shopping Jupton for pitching. They are shopping him so their new GM gets to use the others GMs in the league to evaluate his minor league system. Jupton was never going anywhere.
    ************

    LOOK EVERYBODY, it’s KEVIN TOWERS on LOHUD!!!!

    Hello Mr. Towers and WELCOME!!!

    Thank you for your input.

    It’s a pleasure discussing baseball with you :)

  53. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    randy l.

    I guess you missed it when I told GB7 I saw him in a commercial. :lol:

    That made me think of him as soon as I saw it.

  54. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    “At the end of an eight-year contract, Crawford would be 37 years old. Speed guys tend to slow down after 32.”

    my feeling is that the lean fast guys last longer as good players even if they don’t steal bases the way they did when they were younger. speed guys like ricky henderson, lofton,raines,etc seem to have useful late careers.

    te guys that go fast are guys like mo vaughn, chambliss, cecil fielder, etc

  55. MTU December 5th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    If Cashman really had guts this is how he would have rappelled down that building.

    It’s called “Aussie” style. I’ve seen folks do it. It’s really cool but takes serious nerve.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GigZPZT-yGg

    :)

  56. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Randy,

    Agreed.

    Crawford does everything well.

    He’ll still hit at a high level as the stolen bases decrease.

  57. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    maine yankee-

    you and i had a similar thought?

    now i’m worried.

    if it happens again , i’m going to have to reconsider how i think about things.

  58. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Crawford does everything well

    *****

    Except hit LHP

  59. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Cashman (might) talk to Kevin Towers about a package for Upton beginning with Chamberlain and Nova and go from there.
    As long as Montero, Sanchez, Murphy, Brewer, Heathcott, Banuelos, Betances, Phelps, Warren, and Marshall don’t come into the conversation it’s all good.

  60. Irreverent Discourse December 5th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Bret – i assume by your… ridiculous reply… that you can come up with a reason they would trade a 22 year old cost controlled stud. Sourced… without making anything up, of course. Do you always look for the least likely scenario in everything?

  61. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    randy

    It will make you realize you are saner than people here think you are.

  62. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    50 minutes until Santa and the Easter Bunny visit Boston at the same time or Armageddon.

  63. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    Kevin,

    May I call you Kev?

    How about you come up with a source for your opinion or do sourcing requirements apply to everyone on here except yourself?

  64. Irreverent Discourse December 5th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    Bret – I’m not sitting here making up reasons for crazy trades to acquire unattainable players. You are.

  65. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    randy

    The one thing is you was about 2 months behind with that thought.

    So you have to pick up the pace to catch up so nothing to worry about. :lol:

  66. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    i was originally not at all interested in lee just because i never liked the guy, but with the red sox seeming like they are all in for next summer, i’ve had a change of heart.

    i’ve decided i want all the mercenaries i can get for this summer.

    lee would counter the AD trade.

    as far as crawford, think what an advantage that speed would be in an outfield of crawford, gardner, and granderson.

    it is something to think about.

    if the red sox sign werth, it’s something to think about more.

  67. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Irreverent Discourse December 5th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
    Bret – I’m not sitting here making up reasons for crazy trades to acquire unattainable players. You are.

    **********

    I’m sitting here presenting an opinion and so are you.

    So I guess it sucks to be you.

  68. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    MLB Network has a great program on now called “This Old Cub”, about Ron Santo. Great viewing on a guy that dealt with more crap than anybody should have to deal with.

  69. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    randy

    i’ve had a change of heart

    —————————————————————————

    That’s something I never though I’d hear from you. :lol:

    Or did it go from hard to harder?

  70. spidanyc December 5th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    This is how the GM Meetings should go, in no particular order:

    Trade both Swisher and Granderson and receive a teams top prospect for both of them (just one top prospect for each), flip those two prospects plus Nova and Laird for Upton, which will solve our RF situation.

    Sign CLiff Lee.

    Trade Gary Sanchez(dont need Sanchez when Montero and Romine will be our future catcher and DH), Brackman, Eduardo Nunez, JR Murphy & Heatchott for Zack greinke.

    Sign Carl Crawford for LF, which means shifting Gardner to CF.

    Lineup:
    CF – Gardy
    SS – Jeter
    2B – Cano
    3B – Arod
    1B – Tex
    LF – Crawford
    RF – Upton
    DH – Montero
    C – Romine

    Rotation:

    1 – CC
    2 – Greinke
    3 – Lee
    4 – Hughes
    5 – Burnett

    Our offense and defense gets more athletic and younger at the same time.

    Our pitching staff is all in their prime and we have 3 Aces at the top of the rotation. I just split up lefty, righty, lefty.

    Now that’s how a GM handles Yankee business.

  71. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
    randy

    i’ve had a change of heart

    —————————————————————————

    That’s something I never though I’d hear from you.

    Or did it go from hard to harder?

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    What’s harder to believe? That Randy had a change of heart, or that he even has a heart?

  72. Brian December 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    Here’s the local take on the Upton situation, per the AZ Republic this morning…

    “The Diamondbacks likely will need two or three players, most likely pitchers, to move Reynolds, who is coming off a down season in which he batted just .198 yet still hit 32 home runs. Dealing Reynolds, who has averaged 213 strikeouts in his three full seasons in the majors, would drastically reduce the Diamondbacks’ swing-and-miss issues.

    The team seems less likely, though, to trade right fielder Justin Upton. Interest in him was high when his name first surfaced in rumors three weeks ago, but Towers said talks have cooled, apparently because teams haven’t been able to meet the Diamondbacks’ steep demands for their 23-year-old with sky-high potential.

    “There hasn’t been anything that over the last three weeks has had us thinking seriously about doing something,” Towers said. “We’re probably leaning more toward holding on to him right now, but that doesn’t mean we won’t engage in conversations over there (Orlando). There hasn’t been a package presented to us that would push us to move him.”

    Improving the bullpen and strengthening the bench seem to be Towers’ top goals, along with finding help in left field and, perhaps, adding an established first baseman if the price is right.”

    Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sport.....z17GMHWWCG

  73. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    GB7

    Either one. :lol:

  74. Shame Spencer December 5th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    “along with finding help in left field and, perhaps, adding an established first baseman if the price is right.”

    …Gardner and Swisher? (relax and spare me the ‘it’ll never happen’ responses, i’m fully aware)

  75. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
    GB7

    Either one.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Randy’s such an easy…and slow moving target, but, he’s a good guy, except when The Home wakes him up before noon.

  76. Giuseppe Franco December 5th, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    # spidanyc December 5th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Now that’s how a GM handles Yankee business.

    ———-

    That’s how some unrealistic fans who play too many video games think a GM should handle Yankee business.

    Too bad the real world doesn’t work way.

  77. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    The Yankees aren’t going to keep Romine over Sanchez. And as any real baseball person will tell you, that’s how a GM handles Yankee business.

  78. Bronx Jeers December 5th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Olney tweet

    There is a strong sense within the Gonzo talks that the Sox won’t make the deal unless they have an understanding a contract can get done

    Reversing manifest destiny ain’t easy.

  79. The Other Phil December 5th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    # spidanyc December 5th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Now that’s how a GM handles Yankee business.
    ===============

    That’s why people hate some Yankees fans, the notion and arrogance that they think the Yankees can do whatever they want.

  80. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Hey, Theo: TICK, TOCK, TICK, TOCK, TICK, TOCK

  81. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Here is what happens in Boston. They work out no extension, but gonzalez gives them a wink wink deal that he will sign later to again avoid the luxury tax after the season starts. The trade goes through, and after opening day boston announces the extension so they don’t have to use the new deal in the average annual value calc for luxury tax purposes. Just another example of the sox milking the system.

  82. Carl December 5th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Was told early Gonzalez’s camp didn’t want to revisit extension unless done now. Not in favor of in ST or in season. Could be a sticking pt.

  83. The Other Phil December 5th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    @Carlo: Your tinfoil hat is too tight.

  84. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    SUNDAY,12:41pm: Gonzalez’s camp doesn’t want to discuss an extension unless it happens now, tweets Dan Hayes of the North County Times. He adds that this could be a sticking point in the talks.

  85. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    They can’t blame this one on Tex’s wife.

    Cheapskates.

  86. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    They work out no extension, but gonzalez gives them a wink wink deal that he will sign later to again avoid the luxury tax after the season starts.

    *********

    That would violate the CBA and carry a huge amount of risk for Gonzalez just to benefit a team he has no ties to.

    His agent is not putting himself and his client at risk like that.

  87. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    @other Phil Actually, Carlo isn’t wearing a tinfoil hat at all. Conversely, he’s wearing a reality hat.

  88. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    @Phil – you sound silly.

  89. Tom in N.J. December 5th, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    I don’t get the Sox. They will over pay for the Drews and Lackeys of the world, but not on elite talent.

  90. Tom in N.J. December 5th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    “They work out no extension, but gonzalez gives them a wink wink deal that he will sign later to again avoid the luxury tax after the season starts.”

    I thought that they tried that last year w/ Beckett’s deal. And It didn’t work.

  91. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    LGY – that’s exactly what they plan to do. They basically give him two deals now: 1 is a lesser amount to sign now, 2 is a much greater amount to sign later when it helps them out for tax purposes.

    They are cheap manipulators, this scenario is not at all beyond them.

  92. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    I may stand corrected but isn’t it a violation of rules if a team tries to circumvent paying luxury tax by signing a player on the 1st day of the season ?
    Such could be the case if Boston signs Jayson Werth as a FA then waits to sign Gonzalez on opening day.
    It could be a reason why Adam Dunn and A.J. Pierzynski signed with the White Sox for some deferred money so there would be dollars available to sign Paul Konerko.
    It could be why Jeter and Rivera did the same so Cliff Lee could be fit in.

  93. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Tom and stitches – my read is that this is exactly what they did with beckett. His extension came in season so as to avoid the opening day salary calc.

  94. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    They are cheap manipulators, this scenario is not at all beyond them

    *******

    Considering the amount of money at stake for MLB they will investigate any attempt by the Sox to avoid the lux tax.

    If a bunch of fans on the internet can connect the dots, MLB will be able to as well.

  95. blake December 5th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    If this is true and Gonzalez only wants to talk extension now then that’s a good indication that he is using his leverage and this time window and that maybe…..just maybe he is going to make the Red Sox pay up for once.

  96. The Other Phil December 5th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    If an unrealistic conspiracy nut on the internet can connect the dots, MLB will be able to as well.

    Fixed it for you.

  97. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    LGY – even abraham is pointing out that waiting to announce the extension until after opening day is a possibility in this deal. Check his extra bases blog update from 1:19pm today

  98. Triple Short of a Cycle December 5th, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    The Other Phil,

    Every team has fans that like to live in the bizzaro world

  99. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    I wonder if Selig’s clock chimes at 2:00 PM EST or 2:00 PM RSST (Red Sox Standard Time).

  100. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Phil – get an understanding of baseball before you go talking about conspiracy theories. This is what they did with Beckett last year and boston beat writers are already saying this is what they may be doing here with gonzalez. There is no conspiracy theory, this is a frowned upon but not illegal way of manipulating the system. Something they did as recently as earlier this year.

  101. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Most fans and baseball writers have no idea what is in the CBA.

  102. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    It doesn’t matter what Donut Boy or the Red Sox want. Gonzalez is running this one.

  103. The Other Phil December 5th, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Okay Carlo. Whatever you say.
    I think you missed some meds this morning.

  104. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    If this deal was anywhere close, both sides could have asked for a time extension. That doesn’t appear to be the case.

  105. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    courtesy of former lohud contributor and curret extra bases writer:

    There is a 2 p.m. deadline for a contract extension for Adrian Gonzalez. No news on a deal yet. But keep these things in mind:

    • The Sox can still go ahead with the deal without an extension. But they would have to have a strong indication that a deal can get done.

    • Waiting to announce the extension until after Opening Day could help save money on the luxury tax. That’s what happened with Josh Beckett last year. The luxury tax is based on the average annual value of contracts as of Opening Day.

    • Or they could just make a deal now and get it over with.

    I guess Phil and Sandwich Short of a Picnic think he’s a conspiracy theorist as well.

  106. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 2:07 pm

    Even if Theo found a way to justify delaying the deal to MLB like citing wanting to evaluate his shoulder further, Gonzalez has no incentive to help the Sox like that.

    What if he shows up in spring and blows his shoulder out?

    There is no reason for his agent to agree to a wink wink deal to help the Sox. It would be very irresponsible as Gonzalezs main advisor.

  107. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    LGY – why did Beckett do it last year? What if the financial differences in the deals make the gamble worth it? If its a luxury tax move, the sox transfering the savings to Gonzo can make it considerably more economically logical for him to offset the risk.

    The botton line is, these deals do happen. This would not be the first time a clib/player have done something like this.

  108. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    There is nothing wrong with or to be investigated if the Red Sox skirt the luxury tax. It is all perfectly legal. It is the smart business thing to do.

  109. BBFan December 5th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    Beckett was already under contract for that year.

  110. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:15 pm

    And Gonzalez is under contract for this year. You guys really just like to argue is what it boils down to.

  111. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    John Heyman, clearly a conspiracy theorist as well:

    “SUNDAY, 1:13pm: The BoSox could still make the deal without an extension, provided that the parameters are close, Heyman tweets.”

    Other Phil and Sandwich Short of Pinic still dont know they dont know. Painful way to live.

  112. MaineYankee December 5th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    GB7

    It doesn’t matter what Donut Boy or the Red Sox want. Gonzalez is running this one.

    ——————————————————————-

    I hear that DD is looking into a defamation suit against you.

  113. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    The 2 pm deadline on a-gon window may be “soft” as baseball understands the significance of player and situation. Overtime may be ok. 3 minutes ago via web Retweeted by 19 people

    SI_JonHeyman

    HAHAHA! Conspiracy, meet reality! A soft deadline! HAHAHA! Love it. Absolutely love it.

  114. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    And Gonzales says that if the deal isn’t done now, it won’t get done during ST or the season.

  115. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Carlo – To confirm, as Peter Abraham and many other media members have noted already, the Sox can accept the trade as Gonzo does not have a no trade clause. Then, they can work out an extension with Gonzo later. However, Gonzo’s agent has said that they want the deal now and will not discuss later. But we all know, that’s probably a “soft” stance.

  116. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    GB – thats called negotiating tactics.

    I love how the “official deadline” is actually however long it takes for the two sides to work this deal out. What a joke. I wonder if Bud is bringing coffee and donuts for everyone.

  117. Triple Short of a Cycle December 5th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Carlo,

    If you are referring to me I was responding to Phil’s comment about that’s why other fans hate Yankee fans. Had nothing to do with what you said

  118. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    Coming to a wink wink deal and then waiting to tell MLB about it is very different than continuing to negotiate.

  119. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    SW Pink – right, thats exactly what I am saying…….as long as they are in the ballpark with a deal, they can complete the trade and just wait until the season to extend…….deal goes through, they save on luxury tax this year, and its done.

  120. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    TS of C:

    The Other Phil December 5th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
    If an unrealistic conspiracy nut on the internet can connect the dots, MLB will be able to as well.

    Fixed it for you.

    Triple Short of a Cycle December 5th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
    The Other Phil,

    Every team has fans that like to live in the bizzaro world

    Yep

  121. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    @carlo Exactly.

    @LGY Handshake deals happen all the time in sports.

  122. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

    LGY – how are the two things different……the only difference is a signed contract……and there is obviously a premium payment for the player to offset that risk.

  123. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    “LGY – how are the two things different……the only difference is a signed contract……and there is obviously a premium payment for the player to offset that risk.”

    —————–

    Because one is coming to an agreement and then taking active steps to keep it from MLB in order to circumvent the luxury tax.

    The other is we are close, but want to continue negotiating to get a deal done.

  124. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
    SW Pink – right, thats exactly what I am saying…….as long as they are in the ballpark with a deal, they can complete the trade and just wait until the season to extend…….deal goes through, they save on luxury tax this year, and its done.

    ********

    Very shady…but sounds par for the course in Boston. Hoyer and Epstein colluding…Bud bringing coffee and donuts for everyone.

    There’s only one thing left for the Yankees to do.

    PUT THE SMACK DOWN AND SIGN LEE, CRAWFORD AND PETTITTE AND TRADE FOR UPTON

  125. Triple Short of a Cycle December 5th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Carlo,

    If you think I was referring to that post then that’s all on you.

    I was referring to spidanyc’s post at 1:20.

    Why would I lie?

  126. RhapsodyInBlue December 5th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    What’s the point of the deadline?

  127. G. Love December 5th, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    There is too much risk involved for Gonzalez to help the Red Sox like that.

    What if he has a bad year? What if his shoulder takes longer to heal?

    What if he injured himself playing basketball or country line dancing this off season?

    The Red Sox can turn around and renege on the oral deal to give him the extension on opening day.

    I’m sure by this point Gonzalez’s agents have heard through back channels that teams would give Gonzalez a Tex type deal if he were a free agent.

    It all comes down to risk here. For the player he can play out the season in Boston or SD and get a monster contract or he can take the security now and put roots down in Boston.

    I tend to think the deal will get done shortly since being offered all that money guaranteed right this mniute, something that you’ve never been offered in your life before and would take care of your family for generations, is too hard to pass up.

    He’s going to be on the Red Sox for a long time. Especially since the SD front office has made it clear they are only interested in dealing with the Red Sox with this player.

  128. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    Circumventing the luxury tax is perfectly legal.

  129. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    TSC – apologies then, i thought it was directed at me….if you read the flow from that dialogue you can likely understand why i came to that conclussion. My bad.

  130. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    LGY – I am not saying you are wrong, but the reality of the situation is that the end result is exactly the same. They “work on the deal” until after they can announce it to save on the luxury tax……really, no matter how you go about it, thats the end result.

  131. Triple Short of a Cycle December 5th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Carlo,

    No worries. I had typed it up and then got caught up watching the Giant game and forgot I never hit send

  132. ac1 December 5th, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    apparently rules only matter to the other 29 teams. maybe they meant 2pm PST.

  133. JK December 5th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    I’m sure the Redsox are trying to get a discount and injury clause protections put into the contract, but they have ZERO leverage…

    23-25M x 7 or 8 years or he’s back in SD and gets his money next year when 4-5 big market teams will be bidding for his services.

  134. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Yes, Carlo, you and that tulip that you brought along for protection are indeed a joke…a trolling joke. Gonzalez has no reason to help Boston skim off of the top of the tax money. Why should he sign now for Adam Laroche next year when he’s worth Ryan Howard/Mark Teixeira money?

    The mistake that Boston has made is allowing that idiot Luccino anywhere near player negociations. Ask him how the Teixeira deal went.

  135. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    G. Love,

    Good points.

  136. Nick in SF December 5th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    “If a bunch of fans on the internet can connect the dots, MLB will be able to as well.”

    maybe they can bring Senator Mitchell back out of retirement to conduct the investigation.

    /Paranoid Android’d

  137. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Never gonna happen, but the sht storm that would take place in boston if this thing fell apart would be epic. fans and beat writers running around about how they fleaced SD in the deal…..then it falls apart. Would be awesome.

  138. Tom in N.J. December 5th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Intresting. Is it a coincidence that Cashman is rappelling down a building today? On perhaps his holiest day?

    http://www.npr.org/templates/s.....d=16913089

  139. JK December 5th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    After letting Bay & Martinez walk, Theo & Henry will get ROASTED up in Boston if they don’t get this deal done

  140. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Boston’s problem isn’t that they don’t mind waiting. Their problem is having Gonzalez to agree to it and he has no reason to.

  141. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    GB – I stopped paying attention to you on this blog a long time ago so making efforts to speak to me in any way are pretty much a colosal waste of your time.

  142. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    colossal

    Two esses in colossal, and you have been paying attention to what I write.

  143. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Gonzo has every reason to help Boston avoid luxury tax money. That probably means more money for him, and definitely means more money his new team has to spend on other players. Guess the fruitcake GB doesn’t have the intelligence to understand that.

  144. Carl December 5th, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Deal fell thru from Heyman.

    Ha.

  145. ac1 December 5th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    NO DEAL!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAH

  146. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

    Hahaha – thanks greek god of grammar and spelling.

    Ok – you are right, when you say something exceptionally stupid, you get my attention.

  147. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:44 pm

    SUNDAY,1:32pm: Boston might be okay with just laying out parameters with Gonzalez and finalizing a deal during Spring Training if the slugger is healthy, says Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via Twitter).

  148. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    #redsox just could not reach deal w a-gon. #padres
    3 minutes ago via web

  149. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    too good to be true…..lets not laugh real hard at them yet. cant trust a tweet…..they tend to get retracted.

  150. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    It doesn’t mean a thing that Boston is ok with waiting. It’s Gonzalez that has to be willing and he has so far said not a chance. What idiots like Donut Choker and Sherman say means zip.

  151. JK December 5th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Time to break out the Gorilla suit…… its going to be ugly in the papers on monday up in beantown

  152. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    The trade is still in place.

    AGON will be a Red Sox.

    Just a matter of time before the Red Sox lock him up on their watch.

    It’s not in AGON’s best interests to play out the year. He could get injured.

    Without a trade clause though, he has to play by the RS clock. He’ll sign with them rather than risk injury in 2011. He’ll sign after Opening Day.

    The Sox are avoiding the luxury tax here.

  153. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    The trade may go through, but, quite a risk without the extension.

  154. G. Love December 5th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    I’ll only believe this deal is kaput when Henry tweets something snarky about Gonzalez. Till then, I still think he’ll be in Boston next season and beyond.

  155. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    Heyman is saying the entire deal fell through…….which indicates agon is going back to SD…..i highly doubt that is what happens, but he is not saying the extension isnt worked out but deal is still on.

  156. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:51 pm

    If baseball allowed teams to play loose with the tax rules, don’t you think that the Yankees would have been doing that for years?

  157. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 2:52 pm

    # Window expired on Gonzo talks without deal and additional time was not asked for #Redsox, #Padres less than 20 seconds ago via ÜberTwitter

    Sherman

  158. JK December 5th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    The trade will go through…..

    They have been hyping up this deal for 2 years and then don’t get it done? It would be a PR disaster.

  159. Web December 5th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    What happens with AGon? Is he going to the Sox for just next year with no extension thereafter? Or is he not going to the Sox at all?

  160. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    “It’s not in AGON’s best interests to play out the year. He could get injured.”

    ————————–

    You could say that about any player close to FA.

    Gonzalez has been saying for 2 years now he wants a fair market deal. In other words he wants what Teixiera received.

    If the Red won’t give him his market value, he will play the year out and get that fair market deal on the open market.

  161. Nick in SF December 5th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Use garlic, silver bullets, and drive a stake through this deal’s heart or A-Gone will be super-imposing his spray chart all over our nightmares.

  162. Carl December 5th, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    lol

  163. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    GB – they allow people to play loose by using the average annual value of contracts based on the opening day payroll…….which in a sense begs for teams to play loose when it comes to the timing of extensions and stuff.

    What I believe Boston was trying to do was legal and within the rules…..they just werent able to get it done as of now….though i am not yet trusting Heyman/Sherman.

  164. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    as soon as the Yankees tried to play loose with the tax rules, MLB would change the rules to stop it from happening.

  165. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 2:55 pm

    The Red Sox are probably trying to get him on the cheap because of his shoulder and he is not a free agent yet.

    They probably are trying to work in their typical opt out language and protections for injuries they tried to do with Bay.

    If Gonzalez is confident in his abilities, as he should be, he has no reason to do that.

  166. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    That loud bang that everyone heard coming from the north was a collective hand hitting a head. Luccino’s ears must be burning right now. All of those polite Boston/New England gentle persons are now out burning cars and Red Sox effigies in protest.

  167. RadioKev December 5th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Quite a gamble on both sides here.

    If I’m the Padres my asking price goes up a tick.

  168. Yankee Trader December 5th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    Deal or No Deal

    AGon Gone or not Gone

    What gives???

  169. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    I think the Sox will give AGON Tex/Howard money but they won’t make that level of an offer until it doesn’t count under the luxury tax.

    I still believe they will approve this deal without an initial extension.

  170. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    Ken Rosenthal just tweeted that the extension window may have ended, but the trade is “far from over”.

    So the sky hasn’t fallen quite yet.

  171. blake December 5th, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Perhaps the Sox feel if they are.actually going to have to pay market value for Gonzalez then they would be better off keeping their prospects and paying it to him as a free agent…..still would be surprised if they let him go back to SD at this point but we’ll see.

  172. Stoneburner December 5th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Red Sox are playing with fire here. They do not have the farm system to acquire top talent from teams not run by former Theo proteges (see Jack Zombie in Seattle when he would not hand deliver King Felix to them in 2009; see also Toronto with Roy Halladay). The Red Sox, however, do not have the guts and stomach to go long term to FAs or FAs to be who are in their prime years (27-29) on seven or eight year deals. They instead have been settling on the John Lackeys or hoping their own players take discounts (see Lester, Youkillis, Pedroia, and Beckett to an extent).

    Also, this trade for Adrian Gonzales speaks volumes of Lars Anderson. The non-development of Lars Anderson has been an unmitigated disaster. Anderson was touted as primetime/primetime. Many of Sox apologists touted him after the Sox failed to acquire Teixeira as the future first baseman. Now Anderson is turning into their Eric Duncan, costing Theo his precious Casey Kelly.

    In the end, the Sox need this deal to go through and they need Adrian Gonzales b/c they do not have his type in the pipeline. The question now is whether the Sox will pony up the money and pay Gonzales what the going market rate is for elite, in their prime firstbasemen (see Ryan Howard and Mark Teixeira).

    Another thing – Gonzales’s agent has to know next year the Mets will be in the market, the Cardinals if Pujols bolts, the Texas Rangers if Lee or Crawford do not come, the Seattle Mariners, the Chicago Cubs and their new cash flow, and the Baltimore Orioles.

  173. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Who wants to bet Theo goes back to Hoyer now and says since we didn’t reach an extension lets make the package of prospects less?

  174. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Again, the trade isn’t in dispute. It’s the fact that Boston has no leverage to pressure Gonzalez an extendion at a lower cost than Free Agency would make it and that’s what’s killing them.

  175. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Funny though…if Hoyer and all were actually acting in the best interest of the Padres, maybe they should print out Bob Ryans piece in the Globe this AM about how the Sox took SD to the cleaners in this deal……then go back to the drawing board.

  176. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    “# LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    Who wants to bet Theo goes back to Hoyer now and says since we didn’t reach an extension lets make the package of prospects less?”

    @LGY that is exactly what will happen. Maybe Hoyer will stand his ground.

  177. hardwired7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    “Ask not what Jed Hoyer can do for you, ask what Jed Hoyer can do for Theo Epstein.”

  178. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    per heyman: “#padres person said late thursday they wouldnt field more offers for a-gon if deal with #redsox fell thru, as it has. we’ll see. ”

    isnt this in itself completely absurd? its basically saying this “if we cant trade him to boston, no other offers matter”

  179. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    pressure Gonzalez ***into an extension***

  180. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    @Carlo No, it’s not absurd. It’s the way MLB and the teams work.

  181. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    I say still an 80% chance Gonzalez is in Boston on opening day.

  182. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    Good for AG and his agent. If I was a 29 years old with his skills and upside, I would want a 7 year deal at $23 million, a no-trade clause and an opt out after 4 years in case player compensation continues to escalate.

  183. JK December 5th, 2010 at 3:08 pm

    The Sox ALLWAYS try to

    1. get players to sign below market value
    2. put team favorable injury protection clauses in contracts
    3. not give full no trade clauses

    I’m sure Gonzo’s agent was not willing to do any of the above

  184. blake December 5th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    If Hoyer took a lesser package then he should be fired on the spot…..its already a very questionable deal and many think they got robbed already. The Sox have very little leverage here and as GB says, Gonzalez has no reason to not demand what he would get as a free agent to sign an extension…..if the Sox don’t want to pay it then too bad.

  185. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:09 pm

    It makes sense that the Padres wouldn’t field any other offers. I imagine that their season ticket sales have fallen by 75%. They have nobody else to go watch.

  186. G. Love December 5th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    So if the deal falls through does Gonzalez have to book a one way ticket back to SD or will Henry let him use the private jet to get home?

    This is what I’m really concerned with at the moment.

  187. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:10 pm

    Blake, you can’t rob the willing.

  188. Yogi Mantle December 5th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    This contract negotiation falling through puts a new wrinkle into the equation. Will the RS still be willing to “give up” the same level of talent without the extension? If the RS don’t have the extension they could look to make the deal with lower pieces, which the Padres should balk at.

    This is the trouble with trades with a negotiation window involved. Without them asking for additional time, it seems the both sides weren’t close.

    Would it make sense to make a trade that you obviously want to make with an extension, and end up not having anything but a player for a year?

    I think the general media want this to go through, as so many are pro-RS.

    If the Padres don’t trade now, which is the indication they gave on Thursday, they might get as good a package during the season if AG is playing well and a contender wants something to push them over the threshold with his offensive skills.

  189. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:12 pm

    Heyman: mariano rivera’s deal was for exactly $30 mil. but deferred payments make it worth $14.7 mil a yr, not $15 mil. #yankees 3 minutes ago via web

  190. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    It wasnt robbery by the Red Sox or any skill by Theo. It was charity by Hoyer.

  191. CB December 5th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    Based on the Red Sox past history of contract negotiations, I’m not sure why people were already looking at the Gonzalez trade as a done deal.

    This was always going to be a very contentious, difficult deal to pull off. The Sox weren’t likely to offer Gonzalez a true market deal given that he was still one year away from being a true free agent. From the Sox point of view and their market thinking, why given Gonzalez true market worth if he’s not on the market?

    They likely went forward with the talent exchange under the expectations that Gonzalez would be willing to give up money for security now. In other words, they were hoping/ expecting Gonzalez would be risk averse, especially with his shoulder, and in turn they could leverage that to their financial advantage in terms of overall dollars.

    But playing in San Diego for so long – a club you know can’t give you the deal you want – likely makes a player less risk averse. The dollars can’t come from the team he’s on. That has to focus one’s thinking on hitting the open market.

    The thing with the Sox is this – drawing a hard line in the sand on dollars is the easy part.

    The key thing still remains talent evaluation. Dollars are only the denominator in the value equation. It’s the numerator – the evaluation of the talent at hand – that’s the difficult side of the business.

    And what the Sox keep doing is drawing a line in the sand on dollars for a specific deal, but then misevaluate talent. In turn they then funnel their available resources to second rung talent rather than the true super stars.

    They are going to spend their money. The dollars have to flow somewhere. But despite always looking for “value” they are getting it with guys like Lackey.

    This deal could still get done. But it’ll remain very precarious until the contracts are signed.

  192. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    The Padres would have been better off paying Gomzalez in 2011 and take their chances on the two draft picks. They’d certainly be better than what they got from the vaunted Boston farm system.

  193. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Somehow, I see Larry Lucchino’s fingerprints all over the Gonzalez contract talks. Theo doesn’t handle such big money negotiations …… he’s Boston’s dumpster diver supreme.
    He otherwise just sits there and shakes his head and gets the blame.

  194. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    I am rejoicing in the collective angst and dismay of Red Sox fans at the moment. And, by the way, did you get the message Beltre? The Sox didn’t want you. But you already knew that since they announced Youk was working out at 3rd all winter.

    How rich would that be. No AG, no Beltre. Crawford and Werth – please go elsewhere!

  195. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    Adam LaRoche may be looking better every minute right now.

  196. Tar December 5th, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    I know what the Pads said about the Sox or no one, but is there another team that could swoop in and steal Agon from the Sox?

    They have now set the asking price, there has to be somebody who could beat it.

    Hell the Yankees could beat it, and collect the picks after winning another championship.

    :D

  197. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Oakland Appears To Be Out Of Beltre Bidding
    By Zach Links [December 5 at 2:15pm CST]

    The A’s appear to be out of the Adrian Beltre sweepstakes altogether, reports Buster Olney of ESPN (via Twitter).

    ___

    A sign that the Gonzo talks and deal are dead?

    /deductive reasoning

  198. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    CB,

    Nice summary as always CB.

    I can only imagine what happens in Beantown if this deal does not get done. And in the end just like they did with Tex, they may end up spending more money+talent to make up for saving a few bucks on the player they really want.

  199. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:20 pm

    Tar, Washington, Baltimore and the Cubs may be the best bet. Not sure that Texas could make payroll with their arbitration and contract talks with Lee gumming up the works. Can you imagine Gonzalez in Camden? Like going from a pig sty to a penthouse as far as being a left handed hitter’s heaven on Earth.

  200. kd December 5th, 2010 at 3:21 pm

    cb,

    brilliant once again. i never understood the red sox unwillingness to spend a little more money on game chaging players, most notably damon and tex. the difference in the yankee offers to those two players was minimal when spread over the years of the deal, aka aav. they settle for players like cameron, which don;t help them in the long run and count on 19 year old prospects to be stars at the ml level, kelley and iglesias.

    it’s almost like they spend too much time listening to the patriots and less time realizing that they play under a different set of rules.

    they may have given up a whole lot to lose agon after one year. i bet the oriels are using back channels to tell agon’s people that they would pay tex money

  201. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:22 pm

    As a hitter, LA Angels would be a better fit for Beltre than Oakland.

  202. Tar December 5th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Thanks GB

    AT the price that the Sox were offering, for the right team, he is well worth a years rental and the picks that would come next year.

  203. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Tar – Texas could/should be a player for Gonzo if they cant get Lee.

  204. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 3:23 pm

    Batting eighth, the first baseman, number 88, Lars Anderson.

    What will Lester, Pedroia, and Youklis now think after giving hometown discounts and their team not giving them help by botching up deals or going on the cheap ?

  205. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 3:24 pm

    SUNDAY,2:19pm: The possibility of Gonzalez going to Boston isn’t dead yet, a source tells Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (via Twitter).

  206. tk December 5th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    “And what the Sox keep doing is drawing a line in the sand on dollars for a specific deal, but then misevaluate talent. In turn they then funnel their available resources to second rung talent rather than the true super stars.”

    Unless there is some serious concern about his shoulder, I think Boston is either significantly underrating Gonzalez or seriously overrating their ability to acquire impact talent at value prices. The reports have been that Gonzalez wanted a contract like Tex got or a Ryan Howard-type package. Not sure which is true, but hypothetically speaking, let’s assume he asked for a 7-year extension at $25 per. Add that to his 2011 salary of $6M and Boston would have him for about 8/$181M or $22.6M per. In Boston, Gonzalez would become a true superstar. A defensively adept 1B who hits for power and average with discipline. He would be a truly fantastic addition for them, and we can only hope their ignorance/arrogance causes Gonzalez to end up pleasing some other fanbase for the next 8 years. How can they be willing to give Lackey that contract one year then be unwilling to secure a player of this magnitude the next? Really “baffling” decisions by both San Diego and Boston.

  207. JK December 5th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    I don’t understand the Sox

    They balk on giving Teix 10M more and then end up wasting 15M+ on Smoltz, Saito, Penny & Baldelli

    Now they are balking on giving Agon his money when their ratings have been cliff for 3 years.

  208. CB December 5th, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    I wouldn’t assume the deal isn’t going to go through. It very well might. But right now it’s impossible to evaluate what kind of deal it will be for the Sox. It’s an entirely different deal if he’s signed an extension or if he hasn’t.

    If he doesn’t sign an extension and they do the deal the Sox are stuck into contradictory position. Everyone in boston is expecting Gonzalez to rake in Fenway. Which is reasonable to believe.

    But that fact is not going to be lost on Gonzalez or his agent. One season in out of Petco could drive up his market value next winter up even further.

    The two sides may be looking at the financial part of the negotiations in completely opposite ways.

    The Sox are offering Gonzalez some measure of security. But Gonzalez may be looking at it as increased opportunity.

  209. JK December 5th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Now they are balking on giving Agon his money when their ratings have been cliff diving for 3 years.

  210. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
    Adam LaRoche may be looking better every minute right now.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    LOL ! He was with Boston once before in 2009 for one week before he was dealt to Atlanta for Casey Kotchman. Now both are available.

  211. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Tar, if Gonzalez went to a young team like Baltimore, he could get that team a lot closer. It’s only their young pitching that needs to come around that keeps them from being a real problem in the East. He’d have the same sort of impact on Washingron, especially im 2012 when Harper and Strausberg are there.

  212. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Theo will get Casey Kelly back from the Padres, and a gift certificate to the Capital Grille from Hoyer….then the deal will be finalized..

  213. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    gb7-

    anything going on in baseball?

    i’ve been away reading plato’s “allegory of the cave “.

    the parallels with the blog are uncanny.

    basically it’s a bunch of blind people looking at shadows on the wall and thinking the shadows are real.

  214. CB December 5th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    Gonzalez will be very unlikely to have trouble dictating the terms of his next contract on the market.

    He is an immense talent. He has the ability to square up the ball over and over. That’s not something that just goes away.

    His shoulder surgery isn’t that serious from reports. Posada had the same thing twice and came back to be as good a hitter.

    I doubt his camp is going to be interested in trading dollars due to that injury.

  215. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

    The folks at ESPN, Exclusive Sox Patriots Network, are getting antsy…..

  216. Wave Your Hat December 5th, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    “basically it’s a bunch of blind people looking at shadows on the wall and thinking the shadows are real.”

    Socrates seems to feel that’s the human condition.

  217. JK December 5th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    If Gonzo hits the market next year, the bidding could be crazy….

    Angles (if no Crawford), Cubs, Mets, Seattle, Nationals, Baltimore, Detoit & Redsox

    Sox have to get this deal done now.

  218. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Randy, it’s the same old boring winter’s day in baseball.

    The Yanks are sailing on with their assigned duties, Cashman will be hanging around in Conn. tonight.

    Luccino opens his mouth during player negotiations and screws up the works.

    No, nothing has changed.

  219. Drive 4-6 December 5th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    If you wanna get some laughs, check out the posts on Nick Cafardo’s Boston Globe blog. Very reminiscent of the Johan Satanamania here a few years ago.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/b....._gone.html

  220. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Unless Detroit trades or DH’s Cabrera, they have no place for Gonzalez.

  221. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Beltre is so stupid….by telling the Sox he wants to come back to them, the A’s have basically lost interest in him…..

  222. Nick in SF December 5th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    Hoyer is under tremendous pressure to deal AGon to the Sox, unfortunately.

    When double agents fail at their mission, they don’t always get to come in from the cold.

    Instead they get put on ice.

  223. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    How can the Red Sox get the deal done now?

    The deadline ought to have passed by now.

    Dont they have to make a decision whether to go through with the trade or pull the plug on the trade? Like now?

  224. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    No details on AG-Sox talks. Will be interesting to find out what the respective positions were.

  225. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Gammons has been quiet, he may be busy turning all the clocks back in the MLB offices.

  226. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Oh, oh!!! Jon Paul Moronsi says the Gonzalez trade ain’t dead yet. Get ready for another troll attack from the north.

  227. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    “Gammons has been quiet, he may be busy turning all the clocks back in the MLB offices.”

    :lol:

  228. JK December 5th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    GB,

    LOL, forgot about that guy Cabrera

  229. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    Is it an annual requirement for every Boston sports writer to ink the following words: “the red sox couldnt clear the final hurdle to…….”?

  230. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:42 pm

    JK, I wish the Tigers would send him on vacation 8-9 times a year. That guy is a bigger masher than The Donald.

  231. Wave Your Hat December 5th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    If the Sox are willing to trade their farm system to the Padres for AGon, how can they not be prepared to pay top dollar for AGon?

    You’d think they’d have learned something from their ARod and Tex fiascos.

  232. JK December 5th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    Most likely the Sox will go back to Hoyer and ask him to bend over some more by accepting even less.

  233. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal

    Rival exec on Gonzalez trade: “It won’t die – unless #RedSox sign Beltre now.” Which, of course, is possible. #Angels #Padres #A’s #MLB

    2 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®

  234. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Theo has got Hoyer on the phone right now:

    Theo: We are pulling Kelly out of the deal as planned, right?
    Hoyer: Yeah, yeah. Of course. But I got to thinking, just keep Rizzo too.
    Theo: No Jed! Did I teach you anything!!? That would be too obvious :mad:
    Hoyer: Sorry :(
    Theo: I’m taking out Fuentes. Rizzo + PTBNL. No one will suspect anything with that deal.
    Hoyer: Ahhh. I see. That’s why you’re the master and I’m the student Theobear.

  235. blake December 5th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    Callis on twitter.

    Q: Who will be better in the AL east next year, Montero or Salty?
    A: Montero because he’s a much much better player.

    Q: Does Montero still have Miguel Cabrera upside
    A: Yes.

  236. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:46 pm

    I think Hoyer is willing to scale back the package to make this work……the thing is though, Casey Kelley is such a good fielder that it would be hard to part with him……as per keith law, the guy is like having an extra infielder….so it doesnt matter that Agon is responsible for 25% of the padres offense and has a gold glove, because sometime in 2015, they will have 5 infielders on the days kelley starts.

  237. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    jonmorosi: Source says better than 50/50 chance Gonzalez doesn’t end up w #RedSox. But we know this could change quickly. #Padres 5 minutes ago via txt

  238. CB December 5th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

    “If the Sox are willing to trade their farm system to the Padres for AGon, how can they not be prepared to pay top dollar for AGon? ”

    It’s pretty remarkable. I think they were expecting a significant discount on price for one year of “security.”

    And I don’t see how that was going to work for Gonzalez’s camp in any way. He’s gone this long without “security” one more year isn’t going to be some big deal for him even with the shoulder.

    The notion that it somehow makes sense for Gonzalez to jump at a deal now for “security” which is the “win-win” that keeps getting reported in Boston was never realistic.

    To believe Gonzalez needs to trade major money for one year of security is to misevaluate the scope of his talent.

  239. blake December 5th, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    LGY,

    :)

  240. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    Think about how few pitchers forego security for the right to go to free agency…….pitchers have a significantly higher risk of catastrophic injury than a first baseman who is built like a horse playing in San Diego.

  241. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    The paint Gonzalez are the greedy part smear campaign has begun

    jonmorosi: Source: Gonzalez “turned down a lot of money because he wanted more, and the window closed.” #RedSox #Padres 11 minutes ago via txt

  242. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:50 pm

    That deal should have included Doubront and Kalish and let Boston keep Fuentes. That would have been a little more of a fair deal for both.

  243. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    LGY – wont be long until the sox media machine turns Agon into the next Arod.

  244. hardwired7 December 5th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    If nothing else for Boston, their doctors had a close look @Gonzalez. That’s the info they need to put together their best offer.

  245. Wave Your Hat December 5th, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    CB-

    I could see a pitcher doing trading significant money for security, and I could see a hitter who is three or four years from free agency doing it, but I can’t see a hitter like AGon, who plays a relatively safe position and is one year away from FA, doing it.

    There’s some rumors he’s asking for 8/200, maybe Boston is choking on that.

  246. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    If things settle down in Queens with GM Sandy Alderson and manager Terry Collins creating some sense of order and stability to the Mets, they could be big players for Gonzalez when his free agency comes due after 2011.
    If Texas fails at Lee (hopefully) they could take his money and use it for Gonzales and do a better deal than Boston by offering much better farm products.

  247. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    8/200?

    :lol:

    Nice!

    Good for AGON!!

  248. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    That’d be so sweet if we grab Lee and Texas turns its sights to Adrian Gonzalez.

  249. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    If Gonzalez has another good year I think it is a decent possibility he gets a bit more than Teixeira on the open market.

  250. JK December 5th, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    It makes no sense for Agon to take a below market deal. He will be able to piggyback Pujols mega deal next year.

  251. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 3:59 pm

    I love the fallacy that the boston medical staff is the worlds best. Like these guys could cure any disease, but choose to spend their time making the red sox an elite organization. they always have these timelines of when players will fall apart…….”unlike the yankees, boston was unable to get to four years on johnny damond because its medical staff, largely known as the best in baseball, believed Damon could be productive for years one and two but would be a liability in years 3 and 4 of the contract”

  252. CB December 5th, 2010 at 4:00 pm

    Wave-

    I agree with you regarding the security vs. cash trade off. It doesn’t work with Gonzalez at all. No way. This guy can flat out rake. The ball off his bat has that pop to it that a team can look years for and never find.

    And he knows how good he is. If anything he’s probably felt severely underrated for years (which he has been). And now he’s being asked to take less than his market worth?

    And to be honest 8/200 is not an unreasonable request on his part. Not at all. That’s absolutely what I would ask for if I were his agent.

    I’d be willing to sign at 8/190 but not much less than that. I would absolutely want more than what Tex got given the leverage he has in this situation.

  253. G. Love December 5th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    I just need one more official greedy smear campaign against Gonzalez to believe the deal is really dead.

    When Gammons confirms Adrian did not drop any scheckels in the can for the Jimmy Fund during his trip in Boston and stole the silverware from Henry’s private jet then I’ll believe this deal is dead.

    That said, Gonzalez can name his price and should. The Mets will give him a Tex deal if he’s on the open market. Of that much I am sure. Ike Davis better turn into an all star this season or he’ll be replaced.

  254. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    Boston will prepare to install slick fielding Ortiz as the 1st baseman. Cameron and Varitek will split DH duties.

  255. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    “I could see a pitcher doing trading significant money for security, and I could see a hitter who is three or four years from free agency doing it, but I can’t see a hitter like AGon, who plays a relatively safe position and is one year away from FA, doing it.”

    i agree. very few hitters contracts turn out to be total disasters because of injury. every now and then there is an albert belle, but it doesn’t happen often.

    after not getting teixeira, if AG doesn’t sign with the red sox, they are really going to have egg on their faces.

    back to the “allegory of the cave”.

    i have to get in touch with my deeper side.

    plus i’ll be ready just in case cashman goes spelunking next after he’s survived rappelling.

  256. hardwired7 December 5th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    Either way, Gammons was doing a round of Tanqueray & tonic.

  257. Wave Your Hat December 5th, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    CB-

    Although, if Boston were to offer Tex’s deal, 8/180, it would be tempting for AGon, don’t you think? $20M over 8 years, versus taking $180M now? That’s a lot of money.

    And Tex is such a perfect comp for ARod, I don’t see how Boston could argue against it.

  258. Wave Your Hat December 5th, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Correction, “AGon”, not “ARod”.

  259. Pat M. December 5th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    All hell is breaking out in Chowdaville according to a close friend who lives in Boxford……I visited Pete’s Boston Globe site that my pal posts and man it’s dark and ugly over there…..

  260. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:08 pm

    tomkrasovic

    # Adrian Gonzalez was very cooperative with #Padres on last contact. Took a very club friendly deal. about 1 hour ago via web

    # A-Gon agent J. Boggs: “All I can say is, it was very disappointing it could not work out. We’re very busy at this point.” #Padres. #Red Sox. about 1 hour ago via web

  261. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    “And to be honest 8/200 is not an unreasonable request on his part. Not at all. That’s absolutely what I would ask for if I were his agent.”

    with a swing like he has , he’ll probably get it because he can put up numbers in any park. very few hitters can say that. guys like jason bay can hit in one place and can’t in another. AG can have many more suitors because of this which has to raise his asking price.

  262. Pat M. December 5th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Boston is really paying the price for not signing Mark Texeria 2 years ago…..Now it’s going to cost more in dollars plus several blue chippers

  263. CB December 5th, 2010 at 4:11 pm

    “Although, if Boston were to offer Tex’s deal, 8/180, it would be tempting for AGon, don’t you think?”

    Wave-

    It would be and I’d guess Gonzalez would be willing to take a deal in that neighborhood. I think he’d probably want more – maybe even 8/185 just to top Tex’s contract and make the union somewhat satisfied.

    I don’t think that’s what Boston offered however. Just guessing on their past behavior with contracts and whats been leaked – I think they likely offered less – probably in the 6/130 range and weren’t willing to go above 6 years or maybe 7/150. Something like that.

    Just my guess. I think Boston likely valued the one year of security at a significant rate.

  264. Wave Your Hat December 5th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    CB-

    If that’s the case, and I were a Boston fan, I’d be spitting mad.

  265. CB December 5th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    “with a swing like he has , he’ll probably get it because he can put up numbers in any park.”

    That’s why it’s so silly to agree to the trade and then not just given him a deal like Tex’s.

    That swing is gold. It is wonderful. He barrels the ball with fantastic ease and frequency.

    And he does it to all fields. His opposite field power is huge. He would pepper that wall endlessly.

  266. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Just amazing that the Padres won’t field offers from other teams….what abfriggin joke!

  267. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Grienke Willing To Go Anywhere
    By Zach Links [December 5 at 3:13pm CST]
    Royals right-hander Zack Greinke holds a partial no-trade clause and has given the club a list of fifteen teams that he will refuse to go to. Despite being one of the leading suitors for the hurler, the Blue Jays are on the no-trade list, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. However, sources say that Greinke has told Kansas City that he is willing to go anywhere.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Interesting. Let’s get some realistic rumors started.

  268. kd December 5th, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    it’s absolutely ridiculous to me that boston would try to be cheap for a few million a year when they paid schilling 8 million not to pitch. every gm makes mistakes, but if theo and the red sox brass trade away ‘future hall of famers’ and don’t sign a guy who is legitimately worth more than tex to a fair market deal, their fan base will continue to deteriorate.

    their ratings are down and they need a true superstar. papi was fine for a while, but he’s a steroid guy and in decline. youk and dustin are simply not superstars.

    for all of the arguments on here about how the yankees treated jeter, thank god our management is not as stupid as the red sox.

  269. blake December 5th, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    Tex and Gonzalez are very comparable players but as Randy and CB have eluded to AGon has a much better swing and one that could age better……he has every right to want a Teixera contract and has no reason to give the Sox a break on that just because they traded for him.

  270. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    It’s hard to figure sometimes if the Red Sox are trying to win an award for best bang for your buck payroll or trying to win baseball games.

  271. Pat M. December 5th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    CB…..I’ve had the opportunity to see Adrian play 5 times live….His BP routine is incredible, as he will hit 10 lasers to left field, then 10 to center and then 10 to right, all with the Bo Jackson pop off the stick…….Boston has wanted this guy ever since the Texeria debacle…..And now they’re doing this ???

  272. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    The fan comments on the Boston Globe Red Sox site are hysterical. This is my favorite! (from a Yankee fan)

    YankeesFanForLife:

    “Liverpool are believed to be interested in acquiring the services of Bolton Wanderers forward Johan Elmander. The 29-year-old’s contract expires at the end of the season, and he was previously reported to have turned down a one-year contract extension amid talk that he is being chased by a clutch of clubs.

    The Swede arrived at the Reebok from Toulouse in 2008 on a transfer worth €9.6 million. And he was largely considered a flop under former boss Gary Megson, but has since experienced a serious surge in form under current manager Owen Coyle”.

  273. CB December 5th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Wave-

    I’m guessing there is no shortage of anger in Boston right now.

    Here’s the thing – from what I can see as an outsider, too much thinking in baseball makes linear assumptions either explicitly or implicitly. e.g. 5m/war x 4 WAR player = 20M valuation.

    If you think like that then talent becomes extremely fungible. Don’t sign Gonzalez and instead sign Beltre + Bull pen help, etc.

    But the hard part of baseball isn’t the portion that operates linearly. That’s the easy part. The hard part is that so much of the game is influenced by non-linear behavior and how an organization does depends on how it evaluates those situations.

    And I don’t think talent is distributed linearly. It’s distributed much closer to geometrically.

    And Gonzalez is way up there at the pointy tip of that curve smiling downwards on guys like Adam Dunn or even a Prince Fielder.

    This is a player you must acquire if you’re Boston.

  274. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    I mean TV ratings took a gigantic hit last year for the Red Sox.

    You have a fanbase still angry over letting VMart walk.

    But then you trade for your guy. The player all of Red Sox Nation has been targeting since the Tex deal fell through. You have him and suddenly the fanbase is invigorated with excitement.

    Then you let this happen. Hard to believe they would play hardball in this situation with a guy who just waited his FAIR market value.

    If they don’t find a way to work this out, I can’t imagine what happens with that fanbase.

  275. blake December 5th, 2010 at 4:25 pm

    Pat M,

    Let Uhm do it ;)

  276. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    *wanted* not waited

  277. G-C December 5th, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    I hate the conception that the Yankees “need” Cliff Lee.

    The Yankees don’t need anybody. They were two wins, and essentially one bad pitch from AJ Burnett, away from going to the World Series with the team they had in place. The world won’t come crashing down if Cliff Lee signs with Texas, and I’d particularly prefer Greinke anyway.

    I look at these negotiations like a win-win scenario. Cashman doesn’t need Lee to win a title next year, but acquiring him would be pretty nice gravy. It should be fun.

  278. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    from extra bases blog …. courtesy of yours truly:

    LohudArliss wrote:
    Lets play pin the blame on the donkey:

    Who blew this deal?

    a – Brett Pedroia
    b – Larry Lover
    c – Boy Genius
    d – Bob Ryan
    e – Tweatin Johnny H

  279. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    “Here’s the thing – from what I can see as an outsider, too much thinking in baseball makes linear assumptions either explicitly or implicitly. e.g. 5m/war x 4 WAR player = 20M valuation.”

    ———————–

    I think Cashman was spot on last year when talking about free agency. I don’t remember exactly what he said, but something like if you really want a certain player it is not worth losing him for fear of overpaying.

    Certain players like Gonzalez have to carry a premium just from the sheer difficulty of acquiring them and how infrequent they hit the FA market especially at an age worth investing long term.

    The opportunity cost has to be factored in.

    But Boston seems to really just completely ignore the opportunity cost factor as they have now spent 2 years trying to make up for losing Tex over 10 million bucks.

    Cashman seems to embrace that opportunity cost as he went to Hal and said can I use the money for next year now.

  280. CB December 5th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Pat M.-

    Gonzalez is special. There’s no question about it. He has a great swing. Not just good. It’s great. The only guys you put past him in turns of swing are Pujols, ARod, Miggy Cabrera types. He’s right there. He squares the ball up and it makes you do a double take.

    He’s got legitimate hall of fame type talent.

    That swing does not grow on trees. And when you mix that swing with his outstanding glove work that is a no question premium talent.

    You just don’t find this kind of talent often. This is a guy you “overpay” for if needed and don’t think twice about it.

  281. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    The Boston fans are very, very angry. Here’s another funny one!

    “Theo couldn’t even consummate his marriage on his wedding day. He chickened out”.

  282. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    hardwired7 December 5th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
    Either way, Gammons was doing a round of Tanqueray & tonic.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Gammons will be drinking early at the winter meetings.
    While others are having breakfast, he’ll be perched on a bar stool at the hotel bar.

  283. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Werth to the Nats!!!!!!!!!!!

  284. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    It just keeps getting better in Boston today lol.

  285. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    “Sources told MLB.com this afternoon Werth’s agent Scott Boras was close to a deal with the Washington Nationals on a multiyear contract. Terms of the deal were unclear, but the Nationals figure to have money to spend after losing free agent Adam Dunn to the Chicago White Sox. Werth would help replace Dunn’s bat in the middle of the Nationals lineup”.

  286. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    oh man, the Nats are just so tapioca. if werth is close without even realy spending time with the other suitors yet then this deal has to be absurd.

  287. Doreen December 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    I’ve been busy all afternoon, came back and I’m trying to decipher: Was it

    “Deal or No Deal”

    in Boston today?

  288. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Gammons is thisclose to another stroke…..

  289. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Werth will be BMOC for a while and their owner is worth $3 billion. That might get it done.

  290. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm

    Amazing.

    Yesterday, the entire baseball writer community and most fans are penciling Adrian Gonzalez and Jayson Werth into the Red Sox lineup BEFORE either of them had signed a contract.

    Now it looks like they may end up with neither.

    Wonder how many of these journalists stand up and take accountability for this one.

    Gordon Edes, are you out there? Ken Rosenthal?

  291. Tar December 5th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    “Werth to the Nats”

    And Gonzo’s leverage just went up another notch. :D

  292. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    Why is anybody surprised that Epstein/Luccino couldn’t close the Gonzalez deal? They couldn’t close a sombichin’ umbrella.

  293. Nick in SF December 5th, 2010 at 4:39 pm

    I cannot join in the celenratory gloating yet.

    Maybe the deal is dead.

    Maybe the deal has even been buried.

    But if you ever saw the movie “Carrie” then you know that’s not always the end of the story.

    :shock:

  294. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:40 pm

    “And Gonzo’s leverage just went up another notch.”

    ——————-

    Crawford too.

    If Werth really ends up with the Nats, Crawford is going to get a monster contract.

  295. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Boston may end up having to pay Gonzalez type money to get Crawford now.

  296. kd December 5th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

    time for the angels to swoop in sign crawford.

    then the red sox will be in full blown scramble mode. if they don’t get agon, they have to sign a player just to keep up. beltre? that would be perfect for us, as beltre only plays well on walk years.

  297. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Crawford being a left handed hitter in Fenway – hardly a good consolation prize for the power of AG and Werth. They better text Youk and say get your butt back to first and get Beltre on the horn fast.

  298. 38HotDogs December 5th, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Wow 7 years for Werth – that can’t help the Sox – ha ha

  299. Joe from Long Island December 5th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    It ain’t over till it’s over.

    What a weekend. First, the Red Sox steal Gonzalez, who’ve they’ve lusted after for two years – since the Teixeira fiasco – from the Padres. Now, that they get him, they decide they don’t want to pay him, and risk losing him? Who does business that way?

  300. ac1 December 5th, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Werth to the Nats makes Crawford that much more valuble.

  301. Ruby Tuesday December 5th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    The deal is already done .

    The apparent holdup is nothing but a ploy to tease us Yankee fans .

    If you have not heard, the B*st*n R*d S*x are the 2011 World Champions of baseball .

  302. Drive 4-6 December 5th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    You knw things must be looking bad for the Sox and A Gon. ESPN can’t bring themselves to post it on their website. If it were the Yanks blowing the deal, it would have been their top headline at 2:01 this afternoon.

  303. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    If the Sox strike out for a big bat? Do they take that money and sneak in on Lee? Lee, Lester and Buschholz will win you a bunch of 2-1 games. Far fetched – sure.

  304. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Theo better order a few extra cases of ‘energy drinks’ for Big Papi…..

  305. Drive 4-6 December 5th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    Joe From Long Island,

    “Who does business that way?”

    The Boston Red Sox and Theo’s puppets in the San Diego Padres’ front office.

  306. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    If werth gets similar or more money than Holliday I want to know what these GM’s were thinking not bidding on Holliday last year??

  307. Joe from Long Island December 5th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

    Seven years for Werth? Wow. Not only does that screw the Red Sox, but it definitely drives up the price for Crawford, who’s a better player IMO.

    To miss out on both Werth and Gonzalez (if they fail to complete this) really hurts them. Because you know Boras knows leverage when he sees it, and Beltre’s price also just went up. Five years for Beltre? More?

    What’s their offense going to be – Drew, Ortiz, Pedroia and Youk?

  308. Joe from Long Island December 5th, 2010 at 4:55 pm

    Hi Drive 4 – 6 – Hope you’re well. It’s been a while.

  309. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    Drive 4-6……You know ESPN=Exclusive Sox Patriots Network……Yankee highlights are held off until the final minute of SportCenter…..Arod is grilled for steroid use, Big Papi’s ‘energy shakes’ are mostly ignored,and so on……

  310. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    just think how the Boston pitchers will now feel. All of this and a closer right field fence, too. Maybe they go after Greinke.

  311. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Werth signs a 7-year deal with the Nats. Done deal.

  312. CB December 5th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    If Werth has gone to the Nats then Gonzalez’s leverage just went up again.

    This is an interesting situation for Boston. They are at risk for becoming far too left handed if they don’t bring Beltre back.

    Even if the Sox did get Gonzalez they really would have needed a right hand power bat to balance the line up.

    Now the RH power bat they were supposedly targeting is gone.

    Also interesting to see Boras finally adjust his strategy and get one of his “star” players signed early rather than dragging things out.

    The Nats must have offered an obscene amount of money.

  313. 108 stitches December 5th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Gammons was so sure that his guitar playing buddy Theo would land Werth and make a fool of Scott Boras that he went out and ordered a case of Tangueray to celebrate.
    Oh man …….. what an overhang he’ll have at the winter meetings.

  314. Tar December 5th, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    “jorgearangure: Can’t blame Gonzalez either for wanting fair market value, a value which btw Boston helped set during Tex negotiations”

    Ha HA— Ouch. :D

  315. Nick in SF December 5th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    If Werth gets a 7-year deal from the Nats he’d better be donning an Abe Lincoln costume to run in the Presidents Races between innings.

  316. ac1 December 5th, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    7 years at 18 Mil per? Crawford’s going to try for 20 now. hope he takes boston for everything they are worth.

  317. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    126 million for werth

  318. ac1 December 5th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    i just feel with all the spec that the yankees will get Lee, that someone else will take him.

  319. Tom in N.J. December 5th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    Again, I don’t get the Sox. They take principled stands on elite players but sign Lackey, Lugo and Drew to more money than they are worth. Odd.

  320. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 5:05 pm

    wow, 18 million a year! He just raised the bar for AGon,Crawford,Beltre…..

  321. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Well, they still have a shot at Bill Hall.

  322. Jerkface December 5th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    If Werth gets 18 mil a year, Crawford can ask for 20 mil a year. Unless he wants to give the Yankees a discount he can forget donning pinstripes.

  323. Stoneburner December 5th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    7 years, 126 million – 18 million a year for Werth

  324. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    Well,we most likely can count the Nats out of the Lee sweepstakes after that huge commitment….

  325. JK December 5th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

    The Nats realize they have to overpay to get guys to Washington….. It’s a huge overpay but its not as hideous if Werth is in CF.

    Now Boras might have the Redsox desperate for Beltre.

  326. CB December 5th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    I said this last year – teams not jumping all over Matt Holliday were making a mistake.

    He’s a better player than Crawford and far better than Werth.

    His contract is going to turn out to be the best of the 3.

  327. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    If the Jets beat the Pats . . . better fly in a bunch of mental health professionals to Logan.

  328. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    $126!!! :shock:

    I really don’t understand what happened with Holliday this year if Werth and next Crawford are getting this type of action.

    Did he just have really bad timing and suddenly a year later all the teams have money to spend?

    Holliday is the best player of the 3 IMO.

    Am I missing something here that turned GMs away from him?

    Holliday’s contract may look like a steal in a couple weeks.

  329. JK December 5th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    Geeeeeeeez if Werth gets 126M….. I wonder what Swisher can bring back in a trade.

  330. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Washington has a chance to hurt a lot of teams in 2012 and beyond. Either Morgan or Bernadino will be on the trade block now.

  331. Betsy December 5th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Then it’s strange that the Yankees didn’t jump all over Holliday

  332. Tom in N.J. December 5th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Another bridge year?

  333. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    I love that we can now feign interest in Crawford and drive up his price since he is so valuable to the Sox now…..just the constant threat will have them seeing red rats.

  334. CB December 5th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    “Again, I don’t get the Sox. They take principled stands on elite players but sign Lackey, Lugo and Drew to more money than they are worth. Odd.”

    It’s because they aren’t evaluating talent well in the market. They are prioritizing aspects of financial certainty and “efficiency” over talent and it’s hurting them over and over again.

    They are treating talent as if it were far more fungible than it really is.

    It’s much easier to “optimize” some budgeted bottom line money figure than it is the talent on the team because you can do so by definition.

    But it’s the talent that wins.

  335. Tar December 5th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Werth at 18 mil for 7 years! You got to be kidding me.

    You could buy the whole Yankees OF for that price.

  336. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    JK December 5th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
    Geeeeeeeez if Werth gets 126M….. I wonder what Swisher can bring back in a trade.

    *******

    Interesting point.

    Price of Swish just went up.

  337. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    YankeesWFAN

    With Werth off table and Gonzalez deal dead (for now)Crawford just became more valuable to Red Sox. Still not sure Yanks serious there.
    less than a minute ago via ÜberTwitter

  338. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    So much for the thoughts of Boston getting Werth and moving Drew to center field. Not sure whay they would have done for the other 161 games, though.

  339. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    lol

    Our buddy Sam Borden

    Wow. I honestly might rather have Jeter for 7 than Jayson Werth for 7. #NotReally #StillRidiculousRT @SI_JonHeyman: Werth gets 7 year deal 28 minutes ago via TweetDeck

  340. Stoneburner December 5th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Crawford has to demand 8 years 152 million now – a contract in terms of years the Sox probably do not want to approach. Advantage Angels – not sure – but the Rangers, Angels, and maybe even Detroit will be in play for Crawford’s services. Yanks have to stay in the bidding just in case Lee signs elsewhere and/or to drive up the price (no need for that right now with the Nationals doing that for us) and to have the price remain high.

  341. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    By ‘bridge year’, did Theo imply Sox fans may feel the need to jump off of one??

  342. GMAN December 5th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    DIRTY WATER IN BOSTON –
    Fooling with Gonzalez because they are afraid he may be damaged goods.
    In recent years the tried to trade Lowell to a team and pass him off as healthy when he had a bad wrist.
    Slinked away from a supposedly done deal top acquire Johann Santana.
    Dragged Johnny Damon thru the mud because he refused below market offer to re-up in bean town.

    Liverpool Soccer to see more resources than Fenway!

  343. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Yankees will be serious on Crawford until it makes it hurt for another team.

  344. G-C December 5th, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    Wow, I absolutely can’t believe that Werth got what he got. The Nationals franchise took two steps back with that deal. You have the opportunity to give Dunn 4/60, or whereabouts, and you instead decide to pay Werth about double in years and money?

    I guess Swisher could actually make 100 million on the open market himself.

  345. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    The Granderson trade given his salary is even more satisfying now.

  346. JK December 5th, 2010 at 5:20 pm

    I’m kind of nervous about Lee now.

    Seems like that crazy money from 2000 is back this year.

  347. SAS December 5th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    I have been following this thread with great interest. It is one for the ages especially if you take a minute to go back to the beginning. It is hard to believe that Werth went to D.C. without checking out the Yankees, Angels, etc. Of course, he may have done it quietly.

    Now Gonzalez just has to fall by the wayside, The Yankees have to sign Lee and Pettitte and the Winter Meetings will have been a big success.

  348. start_wearing_pink December 5th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    “Not sure whay they would have done for the other 161 games, though.”

    hahahaha

  349. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    The Red Sox go with a lowball offer once again:

    joelsherman1: Heard #Redsox offered Werth just 4 yrs #Nationals 11 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

    Do they honestly think any of these guys are ever going to accept their ridiculous lowball offers?

  350. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 5th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Please please please please let me be the first to announce that the Gonzalez deal fell through!!!!!!

    Oh I hope I’m the first!

    :D

    Happiness at last! And Werth going to the Nats? I think I might make it after all!

    :)

  351. JK December 5th, 2010 at 5:22 pm

    Granderson & Swisher’s market value just went up a few notches.

  352. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 5:23 pm

    Swish will undoubtedly be a hot commodity starting Monday.

  353. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    The chance of Swisher getting trade just went down.

    Not up.

  354. Yogi Mantle December 5th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    When you look at Werth compared to Holliday, it does seem odd that there was no real bidding on him. Could be that the league knew he wanted to stick where he was, or the timing/economy having too many clubs gun shy for the year.

    I don’t really understand some of the moves these clubs make. I don’t think the Phillies were really serious about wanting to keep Werth, just too much talk even during the season on him make it sound as though they were going to move on. It seems like quite the over pay for him.

    Crawford is not going to come cheap, and will probably be able to push the 8 year deal he is looking for.

    This thing with AG’s contract negotiation falling through, I think CB is right. I understand that clubs don’t like long term contracts, but its what players are consistently getting now and if you want the higher level talent, unless you catch them on a down year, you are going to have to sign for enough years AND money. Even if you catch them on a down year, you might only get one season from them. The Saux seem to have become too used to their farm players signing discounted rates that they think all players will do that for them.

    Being that they lost out on Teixeira, though I think he was not as hot to play for Boston as it was made out, you would think that they would jump at signing AG after getting a sweet trade deal worked out for him. It really wasn’t an even trade.

    Its going to be interesting to see how the last few big chips end up falling and for what. Interesting hot stove season so far.

  355. GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Good afternoon, Trisha. Hope all is well with you. Just cheer down.

    By the way, the Gold Dust Twins have a present for you. When the mailman delivers it, wear rubber gloves.

  356. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 5th, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    http://www.weei.com/sports/bos.....-nationals

    :)

  357. kd December 5th, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    7.126 means that werth got more than haliday

    agon HAS to get more than tex. there are at least 4 teams that would pay that

    boston might really regret not signing this guy, as much as they regret not getting tex.

    crawford can now ask for 8/160

    if the angels gave torii hunter 5/90, why not 8/160 for a much better player?

    this is a good day to be a yankee fan

  358. CB December 5th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    I could see the Orioles throwing a lot of money at Beltre now. They have the money and a huge need at 3rd.

    And Angelos is going to take note of Washington making a huge signing. O’s fans aren’t just going to look past the other team in the area making that kind of financial commitment to try to get better.

  359. Yogi Mantle December 5th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    # LGY December 5th, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    The chance of Swisher getting trade just went down.

    Not up.
    ____________

    Why? I don’t see the logic of this.

    One of the OF who can hit is off the market now, other teams are going to look for talent they can get elsewhere. Swish has been pretty solid and has shown improvement in the fielding area of his game. How does his trade value go down with Werth’s signing?

  360. Mell December 5th, 2010 at 5:27 pm

    Cliff Lee’s price is up now. 6/$150M. 7th year may not seem so outrageous.

  361. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    I’ve maintained all along Lee will get 7 years. You can look it up.

  362. DocTodd December 5th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    Just because Pedroia and Yuke drank the KoolAid and signed contracts way below market value doesn’t mean the rest of the league will put up with the Sox’ BS…

  363. SAS December 5th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Trisha,

    How nice to see you. Your ‘underdog’ team just got a terrific player. Good for them.

    I hope you are doing better. We all ask about you all the time.

  364. Bronx Jeers December 5th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    I don’t get it. If A-Gon is going back to San Diego does that mean Jed Hoyer is going back to Boston?

  365. CB December 5th, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    “Granderson & Swisher’s market value just went up a few notches.”

    So did their value to the Yankees. As did Gardner’s.

    In fact, it now becomes more compelling for the yanks to keep their outfield intact because trying to by a player off the market has just become ridiculously expensive.

    Carl Crawford is a very good player. He’s not a super star. The idea of giving him a $140M-150M deal (which is what it’s going to take now that Werth has set the market) is ridiculous.

    The whole notion of signing Crawford and then trading an outfielder just became far less feasible.

  366. LGY December 5th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Yogi,

    I am not talking about his trade value, but about the probability of the Yankees trading him.

    Basically I was inferring what CB posted at 5:31.

    I very much agree his trade value went up, but the chance the Yankees move him went down.

  367. G. Love December 5th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    Jeers,

    You’re on fire!

  368. Bx is Burning December 5th, 2010 at 5:33 pm

    “If you have not heard, the B*st*n R*d S*x are the 2011 World Champions of baseball .”

    ———————————————————————————————-

    Good. With that settled (in your pathetic mind), just go f*c* off the for the rest of the year.

  369. Mell December 5th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    “I’ve maintained all along Lee will get 7 years. You can look it up”

    I remember you saying that. What I wonder about, with money getting tossed around like it is now is whether a guy like Sabathia would actually consider the opt out next year and seek more money and years?

  370. Bret The Hitman December 5th, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    Nats are RUINING baseball :lol:

    SI_JonHeyman

    Rizzo, asked if there could be more coming, said: “we’re going to be active and aggressive.” #nationals

    12 minutes ago via web

  371. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 5th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Hi GB, SAS, et. al.

    SAS, I was sad for the Nats when Dunn left but happy for them that they have Werth. They have a nice core of young and talented pitchers, some really nice defense, and hitting that isn’t totally shoddy. So I hope that Werth adds nice dimension for them.

    I think it is an absolute riot that the Sux are getting hosed again – or letting themselves get hosed. Man alive they are dumb as stumps. It started with Victor Martinez and just keeps on going. RSN has been a little oppressive the last day or so because they thought they were getting Gonzalez – it sure looked like they were – and they also thought they might be getting Werth. I cannot WAIT to listen tomorrow. Oh my God, it is going to be funereal.

    I’m loving it!

  372. G. Love December 5th, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Stay away from Crawford now. The dollars and years are way to high to justify signing him. He’ll get 8 and 160 at this point if not more.

    I wonder if the Nats get vilified like the Yankees always do for the Werth deal?

    Talk about setting the market for a 31 year old player. Gadzooks!

  373. West Coast Yankee Fan December 5th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    Werth – 27 Home Runs – 85 RBI’s – .296 BA – .388 OBP – .532 SLG – .911 OPS

    Swisher – 29 Home Runs – 89 RBI’s – .288 BA – .359 OBP – .511 SLG – .870 OPS

    (Swisher is younger and hit in the AL East)

  374. Stoneburner December 5th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

    If Lee does not sign with the Yankees – potential nightmare scenario could develop for Boston:

    Yankees sign Crawford, deal Swisher for a Jonathan Sanchez and prospects, or acquire a Gavin Floyd with prospects from Swisher trade, bring in Pettitte, and sign lefty reliever

    Beltre signs with the Angels

    Adrian Gonzales waits to go on the open market or is traded midseason – as he picks up the scraps of whatever is leftover from where Pujols does not sign next offseason

    The problem is that IF the Yankees sign Lee – another nightmare scenario develops for Boston – as echoed by Pedroia – he said in an article that he would essentially be frightened to go up against a rotation that has Lee and Sabathia in it – coupled with the Yankees lineup.

    No – make no mistake – Boston HAS to come out of this w/ two sluggers – Adrian Gonzales and Crawford – OR Crawford and Beltre – they have to – they just have to from their perspective.

  375. Pat M. December 5th, 2010 at 5:42 pm

    CB…Your point is very true, however Nick Swisher’s value has never been higher than it is right now especially after the 2 seasons he’s turned in as a Yankee…….I mean is Crawford is going to cost 20 million and Swisher is calling for 10 million or so the difference is 10 million….Besides Carl is your lead off hitter for the next 5 years or so at least …..Personally I would welcome Mr. Upton if that could be a feasible option…….The Washington Senators are making a push forward and I see them being a player for Cliff Lee ……GB is right as they will be a pain in the behind for clubs to play against…..

  376. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    Stoneburner…….there is a reason adrian beltre isnt considered an elite player…..2004 great, 2010 great…….with new contracts on the horizon at seasons end……everything in between is pretty pedestrian.

  377. Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    LGY – i agree with you on swisher being less likely to be traded now given the value of corner outfielders of his ilk just went way up……..that said, Pat M is right in his assessment that Swishers trade value right now is as high as it has ever been and may never be higher……so if the yanks want to take their chance on Crawford, the return for swisher could be tremendous.

  378. sfochild December 5th, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Such gold. I love red sox fans in panic season.
    “Yesterday, I wrote:

    God, Thank You.

    I have given near no credit to Theo Epstein for ’04 & ’07.
    I have openly, and always, stated that he got credit for teams that were mostly (mostly) put in place by Dan Duquette (2004) and Lucchino/Bill Lajoie (2007).

    This acquistion of Adrian Gonzalez, I finally tip my cap to Theo on. Bravo, Theo. You have finally had your Dan Duquette moment (ala Manny Ramirez). You have brought to Boston, the man who is a core to the new/next evolution of Red Sox baseball.

    2003-2008 – Red Sox Baseball was fun, exciting and built around the Ortiz-Ramirez engine and core. It was an amazing time… Now, with that ERA over, a new frontier needed to be rebuilt…and Adrian Gonzalez is that man. He is the man, that you can begin building the new ERA of Red Sox Baseball around.

    For the first time, I say “Nicely Done, Theo.”

    I’ve been waiting to say that for a while.

    P.S. — Can we finish with Crawford?
    I don’t care how left-handed our lineup is, Crawford is much better than Jayson Werth (Werth is another JD Drew signing).

    Anyways, Merry Christmas! Santa brought Boston A-Gon!

    ————————————————————-

    Today, I write:

    I take it all back. You’re still an idiot, Theo!

    Get the Gorilla-Suit…”

  379. randy l. December 5th, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    tiger woods may be back.

    what a shot!!!

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