Off a building and into a plane
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 05, 2010 
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Brian Cashman survived the descent. He made it 22 stories, straight down, wearing full elf gear. And when he got to the ground, he managed to give Erik Boland his thoughts on the Jayson Werth contract.
The better Werth quote from a New York GM: “It makes some of our contracts look pretty good,” Sandy Alderson said.
That’s comedy, my friends.
Cashman isn’t expected in Orlando until very late tonight. Until he gets here, this place will feel like the calm before the inevitable storm for the Yankees. Right now, the biggest Yankees news to break was a fake announcement from the crew working on the official MLB podium just outside the press room. Testing the microphone, a guy took it upon himself to make this announcement: “Derek Jeter has just signed with the Tampa Bay Rays.”
It was kind of funny, but not Alderson-level funny.
And now, without further ado, pictures of Brian Cashman in an elf costume.
Associated Press photos
Nice of MLB to extend the deadline for the Sox
Great Pictures!
Do well in Orlando, Cash.
I have no problem with MLB extending the deadline, it’s been done beforehand.
Looks like the trade is completed so it doesn’t matter about an extension.
I meant deadline extension.
Either way, what’s done is done. I knew the Sox would do something huge this off-season and this was it………..it was inevitable, practically, since last year.
Thanks for the pictures Chad.
If Strasburg is the same coming off his surgery then the Nats could have be building a pretty decent team. Harper looks like he’s the real deal too. That being said they still need starters to fill the 2-5 holes and bats to fill like 6 of the 8 remaining lineup spots…. But they do play in the NL east instead of the AL east! There is always hope in that fact!
May Casey Kelly and Rizzo turn into Greg Maddux and Adrian Gonzalez.
The striped socks are a nice touch.
You have to believe the Sox will get the deal done. Their fan base would absolutely revolt if they didn’t get this done. That being said, I hope A-Gon really milks them for a huge deal. With his shoulder problems who knows if he will get another big contract after this. 6 years, 25 million per sounds pretty reasonable to me
Chad,
Loved the pictures!!!
extra bases is reporting that agon is a red sox, no extension signed.
this might be the best situation. if he rakes in fenway, his value just goes up and so do the years
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....or_so.html
AGon’s plane should have landed back in San Diego by now.
Attached article from the Boston Globe, reaction to the non-signing!
Kd – he is going to sign an extension during the season. You can guarantee that. The sox avoid the luxury tax this year and completely circumvent the system. This was their plan all along.
You have to figure the contract terms are in place and its an end run around the luxury tax. A-Gon gets big bucks but helps them out by waiting to sign. Nice gesture that doesn’t cost him anything.
” The only thing we have to fear is the fear that the Red Sox will have to overpay for Carlos Pena! ”
- Jed Hoyer, civil rights leader
All I can say is that deal was like Boston and Epstein stealing Christmas candy from little kids. That’s my last word on it.
7 years at 23M per according to Heyman.
SI_JonHeyman Appears #redsox will add about 7 yrs at about $23 mil per to a gon’s $6 mil ’11 salary. But no extension will be announced yet
LGY – I’m not trying to be argumentative by bringing this up again, but we discussed this circumstance this AM when I said he wouldn’t extend today but they would do the deal and make the extension official after the season starts. You claimed that wouldn’t be allowed and no way Agone would do it. What’s different about this scenario and exactly what I said this AM?
“6 years, 25 million per sounds pretty reasonable to me”
He should shoot for about 8 years at upwards of $25M. If Tex can get 8 years, Howard can get $25 per, and Werth can get 7 years…Gonzalez, who his superior to each of them, should at least shoot for $200M. His swing, body type, age, and injury history make him a prime candidate for long-term investment–despite his current shoulder injury. How often does a team get a chance to acquire this caliber of hitter?
Maybe they are using his shoulder as justification for holding off on the extension?
That deal is basically $21mm AAV that should go against the luxury tax this year. 7 at 23 is 161 + 6 for this year is 167/8 years.
However, given bostons ability to play by certain rules, my guess is they will simply not make it official until april 2nd.
The Red Sox didn’t land Adrian Gonzalez!
Adrian Gonzalez Landed on Us!
-Theo X
This is sort of like cheating and it turns my stomach. Somehow it is wrong to ‘have your cake and eat it too’. I hope the Sox are so far down by the trade deadline that nothing will help them. Ouch, this galls in case you didn’t guess.
tk-
I’m with you on that. I don’t know a lot about his shoulder injury as I didn’t follow the Padres too much but it sounds like it could be pretty serious from some of the reports I’ve read (granted some people like to add a bit of hyperbole to the truth). They absolutely have to get this deal done. One of the premier players in the game for 4 prospects none of them who have even played in AAA yet? If they don’t get this deal done they will finish behind Toronto in the division this year. That lineup will be atrocious especially if Beltre doesn’t return either.
Boston can have AGon.
they’re not getting Lee. And they’re not getting Crawford
To be fair, many posters said the Sox were crazy to pay for a guy with a bad shoulder. And now they say the Sox should sign the deal now before they see how he recovers. You can’t take both sides of the argument.
he’s gotta be pretty pissed off that he can’t get more than tex in total.
if i were agon, i’d hold at 8/200. i might even ask for 8/220. he’s got them over a barrel now with werth off of the board
I wonder how Youk feels about his “team friendly” contract.
He’s getting booted off his position by a guy who is going to be making almost twice as much as he is.
Carlos….Good call on the extenstion backdoor play……I’m off to hit some 8 irons
money is fairly irrelevant as far as I’m concerned.
this is a tremendous deal for the Sox whether they pay him $160M or $200.
the Sox have the money.
I still think the Yanks have the better team but the Sox closed the gap, however far it was or wasn’t, with this move.
Tar-
Youk shouldn’t feel really any emotion about this. He chose to sign an extension with the club that probably sacrificed a heavy amount of money to get a secure contract early in his career. It was a similar move to Longoria. If he would have not signed it for a year or two, which would be a risk in the fact that he could get hurt, he would have made a lot more. Youk is a good, good player and a great guy to have even if I hate his guts more than any other player in baseball. He just chose security over one huge contract.
“I still think the Yanks have the better team but the Sox closed the gap, however far it was or wasn’t, with this move.”
No doubt. I’m just happy they can’t get Werth too.
Regardless of how much they pay him, they gave up zilch for him, so it is still heavily in their favor. In fact, if he takes less than Tex, he probably gave them a discount to boot.
I thought the luxury tax, if the threshold is surpassed, will be based on the 40 man teams salary at the end of the 2011 season, due in the commissioner’s office by January 31st of 2012.
If so then aGons AAV of the contract would not be factored in until the end of the 2011 season. Am I wrong on this??
“UPDATE, 8:05 p.m.: It appears the deal was done without an extension. Look for the Red Sox to come to an agreement, but not announce it until after Opening Day. That would allow them to save millions on the luxury tax.
It is likely that the Red Sox and Gonzalez have an understanding of what the extension would be, otherwise it would be risky to trade three prospects for one year out of the first baseman. This is basically what happened with Josh Beckett last spring. There was a deal in place that was announced after Opening Day.
It also would allow them to make sure Gonzalez recovers from the surgery he had on his right (non-throwing) shoulder. But that is not a major issue.”
Yep, exactly what i said on this blog earlier today and was called a “conspiracy theorist” and told that I “wore a tinfoil hat”….by a couple blohard here all the time tool box posters. Learn baseball and business before bloviating like idiots all day long about both.
Boston Dave…..Adrian offsets V-Mart’s bat and it is an upgrade across the board , however the Bosox still have some serious issues….
Tyler
If I am not mistaken he was 1 year away from being a FA. I think he’s kicking himself in the rear.
But You could be right as well.
Tar,
Youk will get a very nice contract in a few years if he keeps up his level of play.
But yes, he traded a little $$ for the security of a guaranteed contract.
Thank you Pat…hittem straight.
Carlo, not Carlos , my apology…..Good call nevertheless….Later
Before all the injuries last year, the Sox needed another bat. They just subtracted Beltre & Martinez and added Agon. They still need another bat!!!
Werth is now gone and Crawford is going to cost 125M+.
Significant move by the Sox that they needed to make.
They also need to make a signing now – and the only offensive player that fits is Carl Crawford – who at a minimum will have to receive seven years – probably more like eight years. Do the Sox have the stomach to hand out multiple seven to eight year type contracts at 20 million plus? If they do, advantage Sox until the Yanks strike back with hopefully a Lee, Pettitte, and lefty pen arm signing. One thing is for sure, Yankees have without doubt the better farm system and the better trade chips in the next coming few seasons say IF a Josh Johnson or Jay Bruce or Joey Votto become available.
Pat M,
I agree, but I’d like to hear your take on what those “issues” are.
Also, what are your thoughts on the draft and the Sox having 5 1st rounders?
I think MLB needs to adjust a system that lets a team trade for a player for a week and end up with a 1st rounder for it.
Type B’s should only net a 3rd rounder, IMO.
“Yep, exactly what i said on this blog earlier today and was called a “conspiracy theorist” and told that I “wore a tinfoil hat”….by a couple blohard here all the time tool box posters. Learn baseball and business before bloviating like idiots all day long about both”
———————————–
don’t worry, Carlos. They probably believe the Warren Commision
” Jed’s DNA was manufactured in a MIT laboratory and was specifically designed to produce a mole. At an early age Jed began a training and education program that would one day help the hometown Boston Red Sox land a major slugger at bargain basement prices. Jed’s lifelong mission was eventually completed on December 5th, 2010 ”
Can somebody please insert this on Hoyer’s Wikipedia page?
“Before all the injuries last year, the Sox needed another bat. They just subtracted Beltre & Martinez and added Agon. They still need another bat!!! ”
—————-
Probably, but they don’t necessarily need an elite bat now. They just need a viable #6 hitter.
@carlo 8:37 Blohard posters. Well said. Exactly, the Red Sox are smart; they’ll avoid the luxury tax because it’s the right thing to do.
Agone makes up for Vmart and Beltre . .(unless the Sox land Crawford ) ….Games are still decided by pitching . .And hopefully after next week we’ll have Lee and have the best 1 2 punch in the game
“IF a Josh Johnson or Jay Bruce or Joey Votto become available.”
————–
your point is a good one, but the 3 players you listed all seem like guys who have a 0% chance of being available in trade.
I’m sure there were more likely guys you could have listed
Let me just say this as well…..granted Boston had some inuries last year so they should improve offensively on health alone…..but losing Beltre, who hit .330 and drove in 100+ runs with a .920 ops as well as victor martinez isnt exactly offset by signing gonzalez.
They get back some of what they lost offensively.
They trade the bulk of their top farm talent……except for the shortstop with no bat, enrique iglesias
They get a gold glove first baseman and move a good defensive first baseman to 3rd base….so they get worse at 3rd while improving only modestly at 1st
They shell out a shtload of cash thus making a run at Crawford seemingly less likely and without the farm talent, a trade for an outfielder seems like a bigger stretch
Net net, Boston is improved today, but still remains weaker than they were from both a 2011 standpoint and a longer term organizational standpoint than they were when 2010 season ended.
BD Boston Dave
I was talking about those players in say the 2011 offseason or 2012 offseason – when we will have significant trade chips and Boston will be stuck trying to hype of Anthony Renaudo. Sorry about the confusion – but Johnson is going to be shopped around here in another season or two in a Zach Greinke way – he only has three years left on his contract – and Votto is three years away from FA now.
BD – as for bostons 5 fist rounders…..that assumes they dont make a type A or type B free agent signing ….unlikely given their outfield is still a disaster and their pen is worse……..also, since 2006, the red sox have had one first rounder play for them…Bard….everyone else has either not made it or been traded.
carlo,
i agree and given the youkils injury it’s still not clear to me that youk will be great at third. wrist injuries are tough, just ask nomar.
they may have been better off with youk/vmart at first and beltre. the total money would likely be similar too
“BD – as for bostons 5 fist rounders…..that assumes they dont make a type A or type B free agent signing ”
————-
*a type B signing would not impact their draft picks
Agon makes up for Beltre & Martinez???
I got to see this 148 r, 82 2b, 48 hr, 189 rbi season coming up
I think many are going to be surprised how good AG really is…..(not most LoHuders who came to earth with powers and abilities beyond those of the mortal fan)
Stoneburner,
I disagree but who knows.
I’d say Votto, Bruce, and Johnson will be with their teams for a long time and I can’t really come up with a scenario where it would make sense for their teams to trade them anytime soon.
I actually think Renaudo could be good. I might actually rather have him than Kelly. But of course, guys who are low in the minors are so hard to project.
IF the Yankees sign Lee, bring back Pettitte, and sign the lefty pen arm – mission accomplished – I do not care if the Sox add Carl Crawford (well I kind of do but) – the Sox could have placed a stranglehold on the AL East in 2008 offseason by acquiring Santana, or 2009 offseason by signing Sabathia, or 2010 offseason by signing Lee. So add all of your bats you want Boston, just as long as you do not add the killer aces like you did with Beckett in the 2005 offseason – I will be just fine. (BTW – bad job Theo – bad job – IF Lars Anderson was what you thought he would be – channeling Denny Green there – you do not get John Lackey and do not need Gonzales – and look – you have enough to get Cliff Lee – imagine Theo and his cronies: Lee, Lester, Clay, Beckett, and some other dude, idk Dice-K, you have the AL East locked down – my goodness – that Lars Anderson failure cost you Cliff Lee, 21 million plus on Adrian Gonzales, and being stuck with John Lackey – bad job Theo).
It isn’t just Martinez and Beltre that they lost, but they’ve lost the bench bat of Bill Hall. They won’t miss his non-glove, but they will miss the 17 homers and 9 steals, blus RBI and runs scored Darnell McDonald is also missing.
BD – correct, my bad. Was thinking about it from the losing teams perspective.
Boras found his one dumb owner early this year.
Boston Dave
Renaudo should scare you just as much as Christian Garcia and Alan Horne – injury, injury, injury
Look – Votto is three years from FA – the price for elite firstbasemen is astronomical – Cincy cannot play in that ballpark – after the 2012 season – he will be one year away from FA – and Votto would be perfect for a RF conversion.
Johnson screams Zach Greinke 2.0 after the 2011 season – two years away from FA – in a team friendly contract – Marlins stuck in proverbial third place in the AL East.
Bruce – I give you – but here is the thing, the Reds have precedent of trading up and coming non-arbitration eligible OFers (see Josh Hamilton for Edison Volquez) – you just never know Boston Dave – you never know – so we can agree to disagree – especially if I mention Andrew McCutchen and Carlos Gonzales power trades (just kidding)
My error. mcdonald is still on the team. Not likelty to produce the same numbers unless somebody gets hurt, in which case, it’s 2010 again.
JK-
I don’t think he makes up for both of them but he definitely shores up their infield as Youkilis can return to 3rd and Gonzalez is a gold glove type 1B. They still need another bat to really have a solid lineup. Their outfield is atrocious IMO and I would be very surprised if they go get Crawford after forking over a lot of money already.
What a crazy deal by the Nationals for Jason Werth. It was obvious that if the Nats. Kept baiting their hooks with lbs of cash then eventually they would land a big one and apparently Werth was the first to bite…..its a clear Overpay and really a horrible contract though considering Werth will be nearly 39 at the end and his short track record of success. If the Nats were going to.swim in the deep water though they needed to get a big name and they had to pay more to get someone to come there.
I had little doubt the Gonzalez trade would get done….the Sox had come too far and were risking a full on revolt in beantown had the backed out on this one. Unless they sign another bag though I still think they may have lost more offense than they have gained.
Youkilis probably is an upgrade over Beltre, and Gonzalez is an upgrade over either Youkilis or Martinez. Adrien Gonzalez is going to rake at Fenway. They’ve still got questions but it’s foolish to underplay this move.
Good for them, now maybe they’ll stack up a little better and make it an actual rivalry next year.
Sox can afford Crawford at 19-20 million a year if they want – Gonzales only earning 6 million this year – next year when Gonzales makes 21 million – Drew and Ortiz will be off the books – have a feeling they are going after Carl too.
Shaun Marcum to the Brewers? Wonder whether the Jays are creating space to make a run at Greinke?
The Boston farm system is shot……they are whiffing internationally so the current strategy is draft a player, say he is amazing the day he shows up to camp, tell keith law to write it….and thats it. think about what they just gave SD? Couple first round picks from 2007 and 2008 that never made it to AAA. They are selling hype because the system itself is flawed. Now the hype machine for Renaund will start.
Bottom line though is that they do not have the firepower to compete with the Yankees in a battle of prospects for a player in a trade.
Brewers getting Shaun Marcum from Toronto for prospects? Zack Greinke on his way to Toronto?
It was pretty obvious that the Sox were going to eventually acquire Gonzalez after completely botching the Tex signing. It became even more clear after Hoyer became the GM as the line of communication was obviously already strong there. I thought it was going to happen last year but the Padres being in contention throughout the year nixed that plan. This has been a long time coming and it definitely helps the Sox. That being said, I still take the Yanks overall and I think the Boston rotation outside of Lester, and probably Bucholz is garbage.
Boston needs a healthy Gonzalez more than he needs them.
If he is healthy his pay day will be bigger than Werth got from the Nat’s…
Agree Stoneburner…..they can make Crawford work given the payroll flexibility they have in 2012.
We will make them pay dearly though assuming we have Lee locked up by then and can spend time driving up his price. Hopefully that little goof Arte Moreno digs deep this winter.
Renaund has a great arm and a lot of potential but so did Alan Horne. Anybody who would take him as a center piece of a deal at this point is crazy. But if he pans out he could most certainly be a front of the rotation guy. I wouldn’t mind having him in the Yanks system to be honest.
Carlo December 5th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
The Boston farm system is shot……they are whiffing internationally so the current strategy is draft a player, say he is amazing the day he shows up to camp, tell keith law to write it….and thats it. think about what they just gave SD? Couple first round picks from 2007 and 2008 that never made it to AAA. They are selling hype because the system itself is flawed. Now the hype machine for Renaund will start.
Bottom line though is that they do not have the firepower to compete with the Yankees in a battle of prospects for a player in a trade.
———–
All prospects are just hype until they produce in the MLB.
GMAN-
His pay day better be bigger than Werth’s. Gonzalez needs to at the very least get Howard money which was 25 million per year. He’s a better overall player than Howard too. If I’m him I would try to get at least Tex money with a hope of maybe cracking 200 million over 8 years…. That would be his value probably.
Renaund is touted by WEEI as a potential #2 starter……for WEEI to say potential #2 means he is more likely a potential #4.
Because the 1,2,x prospects got traded from the system, it doesnt mean the 3,4,x prospects just got a lot better. They are the same guys they were when they were the second tier prospects…..the hype machine just revs up.
GreenBeret7 December 5th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Brewers getting Shaun Marcum from Toronto for prospects? Zack Greinke on his way to Toronto?
———–
That’s interesting. Marcum was really great in the first half, then I believe was injured for a bit and came back a little off. Must be planning something big if they find him expendable.
Carlo –
You bring up some excellent points. But with the San Diego trade, Theo and his cronies did not need to hype up the prospects through the BA and Keith Law pipeline – Hoyer is an ex-crony himself.
Where Theo and his cronies run into problems is with other teams who were not with the Red Sox organization when prospects are acquired or drafted like Hoyer.
Here is another dirty little secret, Red Sox officials talk to BA writer, they let those writers live the dream of being a scout, talk to them, tell them funny Bull Durham type stories, in return BA lives up the hype and prints it – the word gets out there – the spin cycle is in motion. The Yankees – while we hype our prospects – there is not this lobbying with the publications – if anything Damon Oppenheimer and the new regime Cashman implemented when he took over full control – has given the middle finger to BA and the publications – Oppenheimer hinted as much when he told the prospect blog world and websites to go you know what when we took Cito Culver. And now we add a Wilmer Ramos, OF, we acquire a DePaula (pending visa).
Good points Carlo – Yanks farm system has more bullets than the Sox now to make power trades in the offseasons to come. Gary Sanchez alone should send shivers through Yawkey Way as countdown to King Felix in four years before his FA season begins.
Hope Toronto lands Greinke…..would be a nice shot in the arm for that franchise. They wont hit like they did last year, so I have no fear of them going forward.
Not downplaying the move. Gonzalez is a great player but does his bat alone replace both beltre and Vmart in their lineup?… Im not sure. Gonzalez plus Werth would have really changed their lineup but the Nats blew that up…..currently they have one of the better hitters in baseball in Agon but are pretty left handed…..Beltre is the only other impact RH bat out there and he now doesn’t have a position in Boston anymore.
Marcum would be a great back of the rotation pitcher in NYY because he can pitch like a middle of the rotation pitcher.
Would love to see the Depaula visa issue get sorted out.
Its amazing how they hype Kelly when the reality of the situation is that we likely have 3 Kellys in our system right now. Yet how many times did the national media speak of Brackman, Betances, and Banuelos during broadcasts? Kelly would come up twice a game during espn telecasts featuring the red sox.
Really appreciated reading your perspective on the BA/Law relations with Yanks/Sox….I was not aware of that. Just assumed it was biased work because the writers were sox fans.
Hope Toronto lands Greinke…..would be a nice shot in the arm for that franchise. They wont hit like they did last year, so I have no fear of them going forward
- Lets hope not Carlo
GB – Agree….he is a good pitcher, very good actually……but he is 28 and has yet to crack 200 innings in a season and has an injury history.
Gonzales goes opposite field – he will spray the monster in left like Wade Boggs (another lefty) – but Gonzales has more power than Boggs – this move does not mean they need to acquire a LF who is only a righty. I can see Crawford – just matters what the Angels, Rangers, and us the Yankees have to say about it. Of course, we get Lee, Pettitte comes back, and add a lefty in the pen while keeping all of our bullets on the farm for help down the road or trade chips – offseason is a success regardless of what the enemies to the north do.
Tyler,
Howard is a monster player… his defense is vastly improved in the last 2 years.
Gonzalez should hold little John by his ankles and shake every last nickle out of his short pockets.
Gonzalez will be the face of the Red Sox and that’s all good.
GB7,
Chances that Cashman can get Towers drunk enough to give up Upton to a Yankee friendly deal as Hoyer did for Theo?
Mike – If the jays hit 257 home runs again in 2011 I will ban myself from the world wide web forever. No more information super highway for me.
GMAN-
I agree that Howard is a monster but Gonzalez is the better player hands down IMO. Howard’s power is unreal and his defense has improved to his credit but he still strikes out a ton and his average is good but he will never be a .300 hitter. Gonzalez is just a pure, pure hitter. But he alone still won’t make up for Vmart and Beltre. Plus, I think Ortiz goes back to hitting .210 this year.
GMAN-
I agree that Howard is a monster but Gonzalez is the better player hands down IMO. Howard’s power is unreal and his defense has improved to his credit but he still strikes out a ton and his average is good but he will never be a .300 hitter. Gonzalez is just a pure, pure hitter. But he alone still won’t make up for Vmart and Beltre. Plus, I think Ortiz goes back to hitting .210 this year.
blake December 5th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
Not downplaying the move. Gonzalez is a great player but does his bat alone replace both beltre and Vmart in their lineup?… Im not sure. Gonzalez plus Werth would have really changed their lineup but the Nats blew that up…..currently they have one of the better hitters in baseball in Agon but are pretty left handed…..Beltre is the only other impact RH bat out there and he now doesn’t have a position in Boston anymore.
——————
I would agree the Sox still have some holes in their line up, but Gonzalez but up numbers as good as Tex has in his career while playing in one of the worst hitters parks in the game. He’s a game changer, and in that little park, he can do some damage.
If Ellsbury is their leadoff, Pedroia in the 2 spot, Youk hits third, and Gonzalez hits clean up with maybe Ortiz hitting 5th, that’s a pretty good top of the line up. Nothing to sniff at. They’ll still be in the bid for Crawford too.
We still have a superior line up, but Gonzalez adds a huge jolt to that line up that neither Martinez or Beltre really can.
This makes much more sense. The Sox basically had to do this deal with Gonzalez otherwise they were risking irrelevance.
I wonder if all of those saying that the sox were smart to walk away will now think of them as being “dumb” for doing the deal.
That said – the deal isn’t complete until those contracts are finalized and signed. Lots can happen and there’s no guarantee he’s going to be there for the next 7 years or so.
They need to add a RH power bat to balance their line up. It’s become very left handed and that can be a problem, particularly in the AL east. Unclear where they go now give Werth is gone and Beltre no longer fits.
Mike – If the jays hit 257 home runs again in 2011 I will ban myself from the world wide web forever. No more information super highway for me.
–
Im going to save that Carlo
.. jk
Blake December 5th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
GB7,
Chances that Cashman can get Towers drunk enough to give up Upton to a Yankee friendly deal as Hoyer did for Theo?
———————————————————————————————————————-
Cashman needs to take Towers to Tijuana or Juarez (Boys Town), get him drunk on mucho tequila, and then to a donkey show with plenty of incriminating pix and then make a deal.
Blake –
Not saying I want Upton, but the difference in talent between Gonzalez and upton effectively erases the fact that Gonzalez was only under friendly contract for 1 year while the window on Upton is far longer and cheaper.
A comparable package (to the Gonzalez package) for Upton from the Yankees…..is basically Brackman, Romine, and Mesa.
CB,
I’m not sure where else they can go….Beltre doesn’t fit anymore and Crawford would be a huge investment and make them even more LHed…plus much of his value goes out the window in the small LF at Fenway. I don’t think they planned on the Nats offering up 7/126 for Werth….of course who really could have?
“Hearing #rangers not planning to go 6 yrs on lee. Hopeful camarederie/proximity pay off. Do expect at least the #yankees to go 6.
33 minutes ago via web” heyman
Carlo,
The big difference is that Upton is 23 and is already signed to a team friendly deal….he isn’t nearing free agency as Gonzalez was. He will cost quite a bit more I’m guessing….but if they could do it and not give up Hughes, Montero, or Banuelos…..then you have to at least consider it.
Yeah it does seem like the Red Sox might be stuck being very heavily left handed in their lineup this year. I just can’t see them having the pieces anymore to go out and get a guy like Upton. Unless they find a gem on the market they need to hope and pray that maybe Mike Cameron or somebody of that sort finds the fountain of youth and blasts 25 out.
“Cashman needs to take Towers to Tijuana or Juarez (Boys Town), get him drunk on mucho tequila, and then to a donkey show with plenty of incriminating pix and then make a deal.”
agreed
Love that all their main targets are now left handed……and we may be throwing CC, Cliff, and Andy at them in a given series.
If Burnett gets his sht together and Phil has a better season without the innings issues tinkering with is head (not takiong away from his 2010 in any way), our staff could be absolutely sick.
People can say the Sox need a RH bat, but that doesn’t make me feel any better about picturing Gonzalez in the middle of that order.
Why couldn’t they have traded for Prince Fielder instead?!?
This was a huge deal for Boston.
Not that the Yankees need to counter, because they are already a solid team, but Cliff Lee would do that.
Marcum is dealt to the Brewers.
I can’t remember the last time this much business was done before the winter meetings in a long time. It’s been almost like the trade deadline.
Blake – agreed that the control of Upton is significant…..but the difference in talent between Gonzalez and Upton is pretty vast at this stage.
If Texas won’t go 6, why should hte Yankees have to?
Why can’t the Yankees just offer 5yrs and a dollar more than the Rangers are?
If Rangers are hoping on camaraderie, they can just forget it…Lee, like 99% of the free agents, is going for every last penny…
i dont want crawford for 8/180 either.
TBrownYahoo – Source: Lee has told former Rangers teammates a sixth year would bring him back to Texas.
blake-
I don’t really know where they are going to go for a RH bat. They do need one and I guess they’ll look to get one on the trade market.
Right now though they don’t have a lot of pieces to trade. They still need to rebuild that bull pen and that’s going to be very difficult.
They should probably trade a starting pitcher though it’s tough to figure out which if any of them will bring back value. Lester and Buch they aren’t going to move. Lackey and Beckett make too much money.
That leaves Dice K. I expect them to try to move him – a catcher, bull pen help or a RH outfield bat. They need all of those things.
Don’t think Dice K is going to bring back too much though and they would have to eat some money on the deal.
BD – the lineup isnt all that imposing even with Gonzalez in it….as of now it is top heavy and heavily reliant on players returning from injuries without any lingering problems.
Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youk, Agon, ortiz, drew, kalish, salty, scutaro
bottom 3 is really soft…..3 of the top 6 are off injuries that cost a ton of time in 2010….and ortiz is one year further away from the juice.
blake December 5th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
“Cashman needs to take Towers to Tijuana or Juarez (Boys Town), get him drunk on mucho tequila, and then to a donkey show with plenty of incriminating pix and then make a deal.”
agreed
———————————————————————————————————————-
I may not be honorable, but, I’m thorough.
“but the difference in talent between Gonzalez and Upton is pretty vast at this stage.”
The difference in talent isn’t vast, the difference in experience is though. However, a long deal with Upton would be all prime years and mostly 20′s years
jaysonst Speculation I’m hearing now is 8 yrs/$180M on Crawford. #RedSox won’t do that
“If Texas won’t go 6, why should hte Yankees have to?”
Because Lee could claim he’s going back to Texas if the Yanks don’t go 6.
CB – Dice K would bring back prospects at most. Nobody is trading a major league player of any significance for him.
“Why couldn’t they have traded for Prince Fielder instead?!?”
BD,
What’s funny is that Adrian Gonzalez is Prince Fielder’s number 1 comp on Baseball Reference.
sorry crawford is NOT worth the same as tex and he is an outfielder
TBrownYahoo Source: Lee has told former Rangers teammates a sixth year would bring him back to Texas.
CB,
Yea I think they’ll try to move Dice K as well, if anybody would take him….they may would move Ellsbury also if the return helped them. Gonzalez is a beast but they still have holes to fill and their success will still largely depend on what they get from Beckett and Lackey IMO.
“BD,
What’s funny is that Adrian Gonzalez is Prince Fielder’s number 1 comp on Baseball Reference.”
————-
I don’t care what BR says – I’d much rather see Fielder in Beantown than Gonzalez!
Its going to be hard for them to move major league players for major league players because thats what they will need to do if they whiff on Crawford. Ellsbury is a commodity….but how do they trade him at this point with their outfield circumstances at present?
Plus, everyone knows he doesnt like Boston and the team isnt exactly enamored with him after last years disaster.
That Lee tells teamates 6th year thing is a total Cliff Lee agent plant in the media. Complete nonsense.
of course he said that…..
until i hear it from him, and he takes a lie detector test, i call BS.
NYY would have to go 6 years unless they can move Arkansas to within an hour of NYC.
““If Texas won’t go 6, why should hte Yankees have to?”
Because Lee could claim he’s going back to Texas if the Yanks don’t go 6.”
—————
well, he can say that.
but he’d be taking less $ and the same years.
If he wants 6 and nobody else is offering 6, the Yanks should get a discount on the AAV.
BD-
Gonzalez is a great player. Not good – he’s great. He’s a legit franchise player. It’s a huge move for them.
But you can’t really worry about it. It’s the nature of the rivalry and the economics of the game. Could they really not make a major move like that with their TV and radio ratings down so much?
In the big picture of things right now though they still have a real big issue of not producing enough home grown talent, particularly in terms of power hitters.
Theoretically by now they weren’t supposed to need Gonzalez as Lars was supposed to have locked down that spot for a decade with Youkilis type financial impacts.
Unless they can produce substantial home grown pieces – not just hyped prospects – but guys who actually play they are going to have trouble competing with the yanks.
This year Montero comes up. What young talent is going to fit in for the Sox?
Little worried about this Tim Brown tweet – a sixth year would bring him back to Texas??? But what about the amount per year as well? Would the Rangers go six years?? As each minute passes – acquiring Cliff Lee in my mind becomes paramount.
Sox could always re-sign Manny…
Carlo,
I was saying this morning that because of a clause in the CBA I don’t believe the Sox and Gonzalez can agree to a deal and then hide it from MLB.
You were right on them agreeing to parameters and waiting if Heyman’s right, so I really stand corrected on that.
I really don’t see why Gonzalez would agree to wait unless the proposed parameters are very attractive. Based on Heyman’s figures they seem to be below his market value.
If I was Gonzalez I would want my 8 years now or just play the season out in Boston, mash in the little league park that is Fenway, and hit the open market after a great year in a major media market where he would become household name.
If he agrees to this 7/161 Heyman says, I will be disappointed. Maybe he just really wants the security of the long term deal. But he has come this far already. I just think he has a ton of leverage here and I don’t see why he is settling, but who knows what his true motivations are.
Ellsbury CF
Pedroia 2B
Gonzalez 1B
Youkalis 3B
Ortiz DH
Drew RF
Scutero SS
Cameron LF
Salty C
Gardner LF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Arod 3B
Teixera 1B
Swisher RF
Granderson CF
Posada DH
Montero C
Looking at current lineups….still like the Yanks better, and they could still improve it.
“TBrownYahoo Source: Lee has told former Rangers teammates a sixth year would bring him back to Texas.:
i.e. Lee is trying to get the yankees to offer a sixth year.
The Yankees giving Lee a 6th year really isn’t that big a deal. It’s just the cost of doing business. You live with it if you have to and just move on if that’s what it takes to get the deal done.
stoneburner….you can completely disregard the yahoo tweet…..utter nonsense. total cliff lee camp plant. aint worth the bandwidth it occupies right now.
“Ellsbury is a commodity….but how do they trade him at this point with their outfield circumstances at present? ”
—————
he is, to a degree.
he is starting to make decent $ and his agent is Scott Boras, who will want teams to overpay for his client in (I believe) 2012.
I mean Werth is a couple years older than Gonzalez and not close to the player he is and just got 7 years. Crawford is looking at 8 years now and again not in Gonzalez’s class.
I don’t understand why he is agreeing to settle on 7 years.
“If he agrees to this 7/161 Heyman says, I will be disappointed.”
—————
there is anotehr rumor floating that Gonzalez asked for 6/150 and the Sox offered 5/120.
Even if the Sox caved, they’d be getting him for 7/156 including this season. If they met in the middle, then they made out like bandits.
I think what Cliff Lee actually said was if Texas adds a sixteenth tear he’ll come back…
this rumor is from Ken Rosenthal:
“A source told FOXSports.com’s Ken Rosenthal that Adrian Gonzalez originally asked the Red Sox for a six-year, $150 million extension, while Boston proposed $120 million for five years.”
Until the Gonzalez contract is signed it’s not done. Just wait and see what happens. Heyman’s parameters aren’t necessarily Gonzalez’s.
•The Nationals’ offer for Jayson Werth was so far beyond what everyone else was offering that agent Scott Boras didn’t bother to ask other teams if they wanted to match, tweets Jayson Stark of ESPN.
The Players Union can’t be happy if Gonzalez doesn’t push for the 8th year.
7 + the one he currently has left. so it is 8 years.
LGY – right, i totally agree with you, but this is just so transparent that its absurd they get away with it…….yet this is exactly what was being said today before the deal even seemingly blew up.
The key here is that them doing this gives them room to sign another high priced free agent for 2011 without going into Luxury tax territory….if done properly, they have gonzo at $20 mm on the books for 2011 and are already at $135 mm in commitments before arbitration awards to both Papelbon and Ellsbury…..so call it $145 mm+ to 17 players after the arb decisions on papelbon and ellsbury.
because of the simple sidewinding….they use Gonzalez $6 mm instead of the $20 mm plus AAv that will come into play next year.
Thanks Carlo for the insight – it will make it easier to get some rest eye tonight – really want Lee now to solidify the rotation – plus with all of our young arms coming up in AAA and AA – we will have an amazing array of arms to draw from for the pen, an emergency start, or trade.
Carlo
So anyway sorry for that. I guess I had my Pinstripe Glasses on this morning
BD – i believe this is ellsburys first arb year.
SI_JonHeyman Appears #redsox will add about 7 yrs at about $23 mil per to a gon’s $6 mil ’11 salary. But no extension will be announced yet.
__
says add 7 at 23 mil. adding to the 1/6mil.
Cashman would have started Lee negotiations, too, had that been Braunecker’s desire.
“I’ll talk right now,” Cashman said. “I would have talked on the building if we had time.”
The Werth deal has to be the worst since Zito. How did he get more than Holliday? What was the second best offer he could have expected? I’d say he probably would have gotten, at most, 6 for $96m. He’s a nice player, but not a superstar. He’s being paid like a superstar. That Holliday deal was cheaper, and in hindsight, I bet the Cards wish they had tried to hold out for less.
I don’t see why this has to push up anyone else’s deal, other than due to the simple fact that one fewer decent outfielder is on the board. One team’s mistake only has cascading effects if teams let it – players, like owners, can see that they overpaid. But it certainly helps Crawford, not because it sets a value, but because he’s now the only premium outfielder available.
LGY – no worries man. I get infuriated as well ahen i see things break right for the sox. have a good night.
CB,
You’re right.
With the amount Heyman’s sources have had him going back and forth this winter there is no reason to buy into this stuff until the contract is signed.
For all we know the Red Sox could be leaking this stuff to keep the villagers in Boston settled especially after all the drama that went down today.
stone burner – Cliff will be a yankee in time….i have complete confidence in that. Supposedly lee and kinsler were texting last week and kinsler asked him if he was coming back next year and lee told him he didnt know and sent him a picture of a deer a friend of his had bagged.
sounds like a guy wanting to avoid an awkward exchange to me.
friends with CC. was psyched to come in july. best city in the world. best franchise in all of sports. chance to play for a champion. pockets drenched in cash.
wheres he really going to go?
Alex Anthoupoulus is doing a terrific job with the Jays. Reportedly they are getting Brett Lawrie back in the Marcum deal.
They have a lot of young talent. They need to ditch that all or nothing hitting approach and develop their players in a more balanced fashion.
But they have a very good foundation.
ac1,
His 2011 money is part of his last contract though.
His market value would be based on a new contract.
“BD – i believe this is ellsburys first arb year.”
————-
I think you’re right – if so the Sox have him for a few more years.
“I don’t care what BR says – I’d much rather see Fielder in Beantown than Gonzalez!”
lol, I hear you BD. I’m right with you on that.
Lawrie is supposed to be a pretty good little player….the Jays could be dangerous in a year or two, they were dangerous to the Yankees last year.
Not sure what to make of that Tim Brown Twitter regarding Lee saying he will go back to Texas if they offer him 6 years. So if Texas offers 6 years, $135M and the Yankees offer 6 years, $155M he is going to turn down $20M? The tweet does have me a little concerned about his desire to play in NY.
Very smart deal for the Jays. Sold high on Marcum
Not sure what to make of that Tim Brown Twitter regarding Lee saying he will go back to Texas if they offer him 6 years. So if Texas offers 6 years, $135M and the Yankees offer 6 years, $155M he is going to turn down $20M? The tweet does have me a little concerned about his desire to play in NY.
___
Really? I would relax. That really doesnt mean anything if it is even true.
Lee’s agent is trying to make somebody offer six years…..Yanks and Rangers probably both at 5 right now…..still think 6/140 to the Yankees should do it.
Angels might can scoop up Beltre cheaper than they thought now….think he’ll go there. Crawford would be wise to wait until Lee signs, he could have 4 big market teams bidding for him and driving the price up and probably using the Werth deal as a starting point. Its good to be Carl Crawford right now, problem for him will be living up to the contract he’s going to get.
I don’t care what Texas offers. 6 years $138M should be the offer from Cashman to Lee. More years, slightly more money. Less AAV than CC.
I don’t want CC opting out after 2011.
But what if Texas offers 6 too? I think this tweet is designed to get the Yankees to start thinking about 7 years if Texas is willing to go 6 as well.
“still think 6/140 to the Yankees should do it.”
—–
I would hope so.
I still say Yanks should go 5/120 and stay there until/unless the Rangers beat it (which I don’t think they will)
If the Rangers are willing to go 6 years then I’m not sure what will happen….I wouldn’t go 7 if I were the Yankees. I think the Rangers plan B of trading for Greinke would be better and far less risky for them than signing Cliff Lee to a 140+ million dollar contract. That could sink them if it doesn’t work out.
I don’t think CC will opt out if Lee gets more $$$ than he does.
Plan B can go out the window in a hurry for both the Yankees and Rangers if Greinke goes to the Jays. Six years will not be a problem for the Yankees. The question is what will th Rangers do especially if Greinke is unavailable.
Numbers for the Yankee winter kids.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=nyy
Towers was hired by the D-Bax because that franchise needs young cost controlled talent. Arizona’s ownership knows Josh got the best inside look at team with the premier minor league system in all of professional baseball.
D-Bax want that upcoming pinstripe talent… Towers was their man!
Here’s the way you get Gonzalez to agree to the deal without the extension executed today.
You agree on the extension’s terms.
You give Gonzalez a contract signed and executed by the Red Sox.
The only thing that it waits for is Gonzalez to sign the contract.
It sits in Gonzalez’s safety deposit box until the date the Red Sox have told him to officially put his signature on it.
On April 2 he opens his safe deposit box, pulls out the contract, signs it and they announce the extension.
He got his deal with Boston. He’s not playing the year out without a deal. I would bet dollars to doughnuts he has the contract with Henry’s signature already on it.
By the way, I know this is common practice in contract negotiations because it happened to me. I sold something to a big entity and they asked me to officially “paper the deal” in the next financial quarter rather than the date I sold it to them to help them with their cash flow/bottom line.
I was given a signed contract they couldn’t back out of. All I had to do was put my signature on it to execute it and I agreed to wait until the next quarter to do so.
This is a common practice in business today.
The longer Boston waits to ink Gonzalez…
The more it will cost them to sign him…
If he is health…
“I don’t think CC will opt out if Lee gets more $$$ than he does”
Why not? He’d be a free agent again at less than Cliff Lee’s present age. Good opportunity to turn his remaining 4 years to 6 or 7.
Toronto is going to go hard after Greinke. I think he’s overrated based on him having one incredible year, but he’s still very good and he’d be killer in that loaded rotation. I hope he doesn’t remove them from his no-trade list.
CC could also see about getting an extension so he won’t opt out. Hard to say how things will go with him. He might get more years, but I don’t think he would get more $$$$ from other teams. Plus, he says he enjoys playing for the Yanks.
I don’t believe CC will opt out.
As to the Sox, what can you do? I think in general they are evenly matched with the Yankees, if not better. That lineup is killer……and I still like their rotation better than ours.
I hope the Yankees do not go 6 years for Lee; let him choose between TX and the Yanks at 5. If he chooses TX, then he didn’t really want to be here.
“Why not? He’d be a free agent again at less than Cliff Lee’s present age. Good opportunity to turn his remaining 4 years to 6 or 7.”
Bingo. CC’s agent will have a watchful eye on what we do to Lee.
It only makes good financial sense for him to do so.
Gonzalez holds all of Boston’s cards…
They presented a contract that he has yet to sign.
Ain’t a long term deal till he inks it.
He sees market going higher and tell John Henry to man up and pay a Franchise Player…
Mell, if that’s the case, then I don’t want Lee. It’s pretty clear TX is where his heart is. Forget his friendship with CC ………he found a home in TX and his family is settled.
I don’t even want Lee anymore.
Looks like the Nationals have their sights set on Pavano, not Lee.
“It’s pretty clear TX is where his heart is.”
—————–
Based on what?
Why would a player make a 6 year $140M or so commitment based on his friendship with another player? All that “friends with CC” stuff is complete nonsense. Just like the Kinsler texts. The guy is going to do what’s best for himself and his family. Its not about hanging out with your buds.
CB, the Yankees have not produced any home grown power hitters…………and they’d better hope Alex is healthy
Gonzalez has nothing to lose by playing out the year. In fact, his value will even be higher considering he is going to put up insanely good numbers in Fenway. If he goes out on the market next year, some team will give him a Tex contract. If Boston doesn’t, he has no reason to sign for anything less. And Boston has all the pressure on them to sign him long term because they gave up prospects for him. Thus, he gains even more leverage
Unless his shoulder is in worse condition than we are led to believe, Boston has much more incentive to get him to sign than he does to sign. He needs to get what he wants.
boston will disclose the terms of the extension shortly after the beginning of the seasson, otherwise Gonzalez could have a monster year and ask to renegotiate.
On another note, I’m wondering how much money Washington has in their coffers. Enough to lure Lee as well? Doubtful, but who would have expected the size of the offer to Werth?
That said, is it really a big deal once you’re on a plane to be on it for 1 hour instead of 4?
CB, the Yankees have not produced any home grown power hitters…………and they’d better hope Alex is healthy
—————–
Cano?
Yogi:
I’m suggesting that Sabathia could do precisely what Arod did, only without the short term acrimony. Opt out at age 31 and re-sign with the Yankees for a longer term, rather than waiting to become a free agent in his mid 30′s, when his bargaining power will be diminished.
“the Yankees have not produced any home grown power hitters…………and they’d better hope Alex is healthy”
In my opinion they have.
And I’d guess that Robinson Cano would share that opinion with me.
Not a year or two, Blake – 2011. They were dangerous this year……..I think they are the team to watch out for in the future.
Actually I should have said boston will make the extension official shortly after the beginning of the season..
“the Yankees have not produced any home grown power hitters…………and they’d better hope Alex is healthy”
Montero might be ready to say hi as well.
Big questions about Boston up the middle…
Catcher position is weak…
2nd baseman was an emerging superstar… Now a very fragile foot.
Shortstop… Weak
Centerfield… Fragile at best
3rd baseman can hit… Questionable on defense… Especially after bouncing from one corner to the other.
Also … Big Papi ain’t getting any younger and JD Drew in another injury waiting to happen.
They should have kept Bay in Fenway.
Gonzalezis the franchise player they need to build around for a new era.
CB, Cano is not a pure power hitter………but fine, I’ll count him. I don’t get at all why the Sox won’t be able to compete with the Yankees based on the fact that they don’t have a home grown power hitter. Youkils isn’t homegrown? Gonazles is a stud, so does it matter if he’s home grown? Tex is not homegrown. Swish isn’t. Who else on the Yankees is homegrown? Sorry, I’m not counting Montero. He hasn’t played one game in the major leagues.
And Montero is on the way, whose middle name may as well be Powa
“And I’d guess that Robinson Cano would share that opinion with me.”
————-
Jesus Montero might want to give it a shot as well.
Betsy,
They still need a few pieces and for their pitching to mature to compete with the top of the AL east…but they are making strides towards being a really good team. However, don’t know if they can expect that kind of production out of Wells and Bautista again.
Cano is more of a power hitter than Youkilis.
but why is this important?
I don’t think Lee minds coming here – he just wants to squeeze every penny he can from us, and he has every right to do so.
By all the scuttlebutt that he wants to stay in TX and will take less to do so and he loves his teammates and stuff… he is trying to use his leverage the best he can. He knows Cash is desperate to sign him. He values him highly and was willing to trade his best prospect for 2 months of him. Thus, if he can squeeze some extra $$ or an extra year, he is in position to do so.
It is going to take A LOT for Cashman to move on to Plan B. And that Crawford/trade Swisher for a P plan just took a major hit with the Werth signing today. So we have even less options. Lee and his agents know this. He is wise to use it to get as much as he can from us.
Plus who knows? Maybe he really likes TX and is using US to get a good enough contract from THEM. Either way, he is playing this well if he wants to maximize his leverage.
Blake, I think we should wait until he performs in the majors. There’s no way I’m counting him as a power hitter the Yankees have produced until he shows it in the big leagues.
Anyway, the point is – the Sox are more than competitive with the Yankees. Sure they have some ? that need to be answered, but so do the Yankees.
Betsy,
Cano had the 7th highest SLG in the AL last year.
D-Man I don’t want a player who “doesn’t mind” coming here. As much as we need him, I hope he stays in TX if that’s what he wants.
AL East is such a beast. boston and Yankees always fighting it out. Toronto improving significantly last season, Tampa Bay loaded with young talent, and now Baltimore will no longer be a doormat for visiting teams with Shoalwater in charge.
It’ll be a tough 92-95 wins to win the division.
LGY, He’s not a classic HR hitter, but that wasn’t the point. Ok, fine, count Cano, but I still disagree with CB’s point that the Sox can’t compete with the Yankees if they don’t produce more homegrown talent. Youkillis and Pedroia are homegrown. After Jeter and Posada retire, Cano will be the only homegrown everyday player, except for possibly Gardnere and Montero.
It never ceases to amaze me how people forget everything that happened the previous offseason and continue to fall for every rumor, every leak to the media, every comment by an anonymous source, etc.
What % of the “news” is accurate? 20%?
yet people still follow every word as law.
Still can’t believe the Sox passed on Holliday last year.
He fits what they need absolutely perfect.
Lee deserves every penny he signs for…
He knows it’s a business after the Philly shipped him out to Seattle…
Then Seattle tossed him to Texas…
He is going to play where he wants to play for as much cheddar as he ever wants to eat.
p.s. I should have said “some” people
Blake, I think they’re ready now. I won’t comment any further on the Yankees because I refuse to get into any arguments…..
“Still can’t believe the Sox passed on Holliday last year.”
Lots of teams can say that. Hell, I wish we got him lol
With the way things are going, that contract might end up being a steal. And if they didn’t bid against themselves and add all that extra $$, it might be one of the best values in baseball.
The Red Sox won’t spend the money the Yankees will and don’t generate as much revenue…therefore to really be equals they have to produce more homegrown talent to counteract what the Yankees can do in the free agent market.
This trade does set the Sox farm system back. They can reload in the draft but that doesn’t change the fact that they have very little that is close to the majors in their minor leagues.
Is Youkilis a classic HR hitter?
“I don’t get at all why the Sox won’t be able to compete with the Yankees based on the fact that they don’t have a home grown power hitter. ”
Well maybe think about it for a minute – it becomes pretty obvious.
The Yankees have more money. A lot more.
As such there is much more pressure and importance on the Sox developing players than it is for the yankees.
Theo, Henry , etc. have all spoken about this at length. It’s obvious.
If it’s a battle of money vs. money in terms of talent acquisition the Sox won’t win.
They can afford to give gonzalez a huge deal. But if they don’t start coming up with their own power hitting players they are going to have difficulties.
And by the way – if you want to count Youkilis as a homegrown power hitter than you should count Posada and Jeter (who is absolutely a power hitter for SS) for the yankees. Youkilis predates Theo and Henry.
Under the current regime the best power hitter the Sox have developed has been Pedroia – who is a power hitter in the context of his position.
And right now they don’t have even one true blue chip power hitting prospects in their entire system.
Blake, they gave up nothing for Gonzalez…….
GMAN-
I’m not saying this is so for NY but you could easily speculate the worst case for the Yankees just like you did for Boston…
Catcher…offense big question mark, defense sure to be weak
Shortstop…weak bat, no range, old
3rd baseman…superstar but getting old with a bum hip
CF…had one good month
LF….bad wrist
DH…old as dirt, coming off injuries and his worst year
AJ…sucked
Pettitte…injuries
1B…coming off a down year, not getting any younger…
Closer…42 years old, sooner or later will fall off
BP…no 8th inning guy
Geez…
Homegrown talent is cheap. The Sox need good, cheap talent if they are to ‘keep up’ with the Yankees.
CB, Posada is on his last legs……….and no, I’m not counting Jeter because he’s not a power hitter at all.
Also, the Sox have plenty of money. There’s no point in arguing about it……we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
“Ok, fine, count Cano, but I still disagree with CB’s point that the Sox can’t compete with the Yankees if they don’t produce more homegrown talent. ”
No one asked you to agree with me. Isn’t that the point.
I have my opinion and no one should question it because it’s my opinion and it’s just as good as anyone else’s.
And no one asked you to validate it.
“Blake, they gave up nothing for Gonzalez…….”
They gave up 3 of their best prospects….including their best pitching and best hitting prospect. I think the Padres could have and should have asked for more but when you consider the extension that Gonzalez was going to want, that really limited the number of teams and the amount that they were going to offer for him.
“and no, I’m not counting Jeter because he’s not a power hitter at all.”
Why are you even bringing this up?
I posted my opinion and I could care less what you think about it.
No one is going to intimidate me from posting what I feel like.
Huh? LOL I didn’t question your right to have your opinion………
I don’t know peeps but I think its going to be pretty irrevelant how much or for how long the deal is with Lee when he is pitching a CG to wrap up the Yankees 28th World Championship next year.
Cash already has said that AJ has been worth his contract just based on what he did during the 09 postseason.
Wow, lol
Does anyone else think Youkilis may have some trouble moving back to 3B?
Is it really a sure thing he can just make that transition?
“Cano had the 7th highest SLG in the AL last year.”
Facts don’t matter.
Only opinions do.
“Does anyone else think Youkilis may have some trouble moving back to 3B?”
I think he’ll be fine over there….not as good as Beltre but fine. I think the bigger question is with his body type, how long can he play there?
There is a chance Lee may sign for less $$$ in TX because they don’t have state tax. However, if all baseball players cared about was that it would be Astros vs. Rangers every year.
Clown,
Hey you might be right…
I actually think Boston is a great great franchise…
And Gonzalez is an awesome player…
If he is health he will be The Franchise Player…
But the Bosox are clearly in the midst of a big transition…
With more questions on the field than they’ve had in many years.
Youk has had back problems in the past, no?
SI_JonHeyman
the price of No. 3 starter is very high if a team has to give up its No. 1 prospect (lawrie) for one (marcum). somewhere, pavano is smiling 1 minute ago via web
What’s Kalish’s ceiling?
“Does anyone else think Youkilis may have some trouble moving back to 3B?”
Not really.
Who is better at the hot corner Beltre or Youklis?
CB,
I don’t think you have posted on this so I am wondering what you think of the package the Sox sent to SD for Gonzalez?
CB — Everybody keeps saying that Beltre is totally out for the Sox but I keep wondering why (aside from the fact that he was bad at it in a cameo last year) Youk wouldn’t be able to man left. If he has to change positions anyway why not bring back their best (arguably) player from last year?
Youk is terrible in LF.
Beltre is a better 3b than Youk, and I like Youk at 3rd more than most.
“Does anyone else think Youkilis may have some trouble moving back to 3B?”
I think it’s an open question as to how he’ll do there long term.
Youkilis hasn’t played 3b that much over the past 5 years. He’s really been a 1b who will swing over to play 3b.
But he’s 32 now and not very athletic (though he does have good feet around the bag).
Youkilis is at a stage when many 3b would be getting shifted to 1b or starting a transition there. He’s now being asked to transition back to 3b. That’s not a definite in terms of what kind of value he’ll produce.
YankeesPR RT @cgrand14: tomorrow I get to take on @RealSkipBayless for a down on @espn_firsttake First & Ten. I think it will be in the 2nd hr
Youklis is helluva player.
He is the smallest question mark for sure.
The big Boston question marks are at C, SS and CF.
Track records in those slots are areas of relative weakness for Boston.
Yanks getting older for sure but track record is excellent.
I think Youkalis could play LF ok at Fenway….problem is that they play 81 games in other stadiums.
Anyone think George Steinbrenner gets the call to Cooperstown tomorrow?
LGY-
I think that package was light for Gonzalez because Rizzo doesn’t form an adequate second player in that package given Kelly’s struggles in AA.
Hoyer didn’t get enough back.
The Sox were fortunate to be able to deal with a GM that was involved with drafting the players they were looking to trade.
Look at it this way – the Padres got back much less talent than the Marlins did for Miguel Cabrera.
And that didn’t turn out too well for the Marlins as it is.
“I think Youkalis could play LF ok at Fenway….problem is that they play 81 games in other stadiums.”
————–
Texeira could play LF too.
Youk in LF is a very bad idea unless it’s an emergency.
He’s played LF and it was not a pretty sight.
“I think Youkalis could play LF ok at Fenway”
Respectfully disagree. It ain’t his thing.
BD,
I agree….I was just saying, not much ground to cover at Fenway. Committing to Beltre long term would mean Youkalis would have to move permanently to the OF or become the DH after Ortiz is gone…..don’t see it.
Rob_NY-
Youkilis isn’t a LF anymore. That ship looks like it’s sailed. Maybe he could do it with a lot of work out there but that would be very chancy.
He’s got good feet but really isn’t fast. His range would be very limited out there.
And on the occasions when he’s played out there recently he’s been awful.
I also don’t think he likes playing in the OF. Doesn’t feel comfortable.
Youkilis is close to 32. He’s not a young, flexible player anymore.
Mell,
I’m not saying he’d be Crawford or Gardner out there…
Player to be named later in the Gonzalez deal likely to be somebody from the most recent draft…
I am guessing Sean Coyle… 3rd round pick … Is that player.
Signed for way above slot.
Blake:
I am saying it. Joan Crawford or Eva Gardner
Mell,
Maybe….that
Just thinking again about a Justin Upton-Yankee trade in terms of long-term contract implications. Since he’s under a cost-controled contract for the next several years, he only becomes a free agent in 2016, at age 27, fully in his prime, when he’ll likely be trying for an 8 year deal.
Any team that trades for him would benefit from several years of production, and then depending on how deep your pockets are, would have the opportunity to re-sign him to a long term deal. This sounds like the original Jeter contract to me.
Let’s say that the Yankees were to trade for him now, and he continues to improve and produce in RF. Who could possibly offer more than the Yankees to one of their key players – that they wanted to keep – as he enters Free Agency for the first time? When was the last time that happened?
Based on the above, I don’t think this potential deal is dead just yet…
the more I think about the return SD got for AG, the more sick I get.
I just can’t believe they couldn’t get more from another team.
Big win for Boston.
Ken_Rosenthal
Source: No extension in place for AGon but parameters are. Deal will not be more than 7 years, not more than 22M per. #RedSox #Padres #MLB 1 minute ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
If this is true then the max extension would be 7/154….which would be a bargain considering what Werth just got…..I wish just one time a player would hold the Sox feet to the fire in a contract negociation.
“Any team that trades for him would benefit from several years of production, and then depending on how deep your pockets are, would have the opportunity to re-sign him to a long term deal. This sounds like the original Jeter contract to me.”
True, but that’s also why the asking price is so high.
Youklis might be a nice trading chip…
They need a first string catcher in Boston…
Red Sox are weak behind the dish and nobody waiting in the wings to stake a claim there.
youklis’ market value is attractive….
Especially with his below market discount contract.
Ken Rosenthal is a useful idiot…for the RS.
CB,
That is what I think as well. There is just not nearly enough pain or hurt on the Red Sox side after trading for a player like Gonzalez. Making that trade should have elicited some heated discussions amongst Red Sox fans about if it was too much or if it was worth it or maybe they should have just waited a year. Instead it basically looks unanimous that all Red Sox fans love the deal.
I can’t see the Sox trading Youk.
He’s exactly the type of player they want to keep, for good reason.
The Saux did fine with the trade, but they still have a few questions. Will Pedroia come back OK? That foot injury was giving him trouble and could be a problem for him moving as quick as he had been. Youk had the surgery for his thumb, while it seems likely that it won’t be problematic, you can’t tell for sure till its game tested, and given how it happened it might have some effect on his swing.
AG will probably be fine with his shoulder, but no surgery is guaranteed.
It should be an interesting season in the Beastly East. I think it got tougher, and Baltimore was looking pretty good under Showalter. Toronto, not sure, but they haven’t been push overs either. The Rays aren’t going away either, even with the players they are losing.
Seemed more like a trade deadline deal return than a full season with an extension return…..I think Hoyer should have absolutely demanded either Bard or Ellsbury.
I remember him looking patently bad in the outfield when he tried it against the Yanks this year but I didn’t know if having more than 12 hours to prepare for it would have any impact on how well he could do it. It just seems to me like Beltre is their best option right now and there isn’t any mention of Youkillis moving out of the infield. Not even for pure speculation sports column purposes which I suppose supports the idea that it isn’t even a distant option.
It’s too bad for them because Crawford as a second option on the market isn’t a great option. It goes back to the idea of replacing “wins” out of context. Crawford may replace the amount of wins V-Mart produced (I don’t know off hand) but if he produces to his career line he won’t replace Martinez’s overall “worth to the team”. Plus some of his value gets lost in the smaller lf at fenway. I for one find it fascinating because their organizational model is being tested and seems to be sputtering a bit.
I really don’t think the Red Sox lineup is all that great. Pedroia, Gonzalez, and Youkilis is a phenomenal middle of the order, but they still have a very questionable 6-9 of Drew, Cameron/Kalish, Scutaro, and Salty. I think the Yankees lineup is more balanced and the upside of Granderson, Swisher, and Montero at the bottom of the lineup is high.
Also, the Sox have very few bats on the farm that can replace Ortiz’s power if he’s done after next year. In 2012 they might have just 2 players that can hit 20+ homeruns (Youk and Gonzalez), while the Yankees will have Arod, Cano, Granderson, Tex, and hopefully Swisher and Montero.
Gonzalez will dictate the money.
Boston could not back out of the deal…
All this media contract stuff…
Boston trying to save face.
Werth and Crawford will not get more lucrative deals than Gonzalez.
The market for top tier 1st baseman is established and it is huge.
The only reason a discount may arise is because of questions surrounding that surgically repaired shoulder…
If Gonzalez is healthy he will command more money…
He holds all the cards.
Why can’t Gonzalez hire Boras immediately?
There isn’t a doubt in my mind that Boras wouldnt be able to get him 8/180 or more.
The Yanks prob have the best lineup in baseball.
That doesn’t mean that the Sox have a bad one. There is little doubt in my mind that Boston will be among the league leaders in runs scored.
Fenway helps, but that lineup, with AG, is going to be fierce.
It’ll be another tough season in the AL East.
Beltre is better piece at 3rd base.
That makes Youklis expendable and for the right catcher it is a shrewd move.
Would love to see some Colby Rasmus trade rumors pop up in the coming days.
” I think Hoyer should have absolutely demanded either Bard or Ellsbury.”
There’s a huge difference in talent level between those two.
This trade is ridiculous on so many levels. The Padres didn’t get nearly enough back for Gonzalez. And why the heck didn’t Hoyer shop A-gon to other teams? He even said that if this trade doesn’t get done he wouldn’t trade Gonzalez to anyone else.
You don’t trade your franchise player for 3 lottery tickets.
Zona is shoring up their rotation by signing Zach Duke to a reasonable 1 year deal for under $5M. Their bullpen is a mess. They don’t have much run production. Simply – they will not be competitive for the next 2 to 3 years, years when they have to pay $11-20M to Upton. That’s a lot right now for this team.
Towers already plucked Miranda from the Yankee system. Not an accident.
They already have Ian Kennedy in the rotation. And Zach Kroenke in the pen.
May as well add some more talent from a system he now knows very well:
IMO, it would start with Joba and Nick Swisher (his $1M team option in 2012 makes him very tradable) and adds maybe Laird (if Mark Reynolds can be moved), and may include 2 arms from the Yankee system.
That’s 5 players, which is a lot. I’d want someone back along with Upton. The person I’d want back is Kennedy.
With Gonzalez in… And Beltre available…
Youklis may soon be out for a quality catcher.
It makes sense.
“That makes Youklis expendable and for the right catcher it is a shrewd move”
They won’t trade Youkilis at 3 years/$37M in favor of 5 years of Beltre. Besides, who has a high end catcher on the trade market?
RS,
Drew is questionable? Really? He had down year in 2010 but overall he’s a very good hitter
“Seemed more like a trade deadline deal return than a full season with an extension return…..”
That’s a good summary.
Ultimately, it seems like Hoyer wanted to deal with the Sox because he wanted the players they had most likely because he was involved with drafting them.
He didn’t shop this deal very much this off season.
Really curious move by him. But it’s difficult to know what the priorities are for SD ownership. Competing last season may be enough for them for the next 3-4 seasons. They’re still going to keep making money.
If I’m trading Adrian Gonzalez, one of the best players in MLB to the Red Sox I think I’d demand Kelly, Bard, Rizzo and Iglesias at a minimum. I don’t even know if I’d do that trade.
“He had down year in 2010 but overall he’s a very good hitter”
You can argue that Drew is a very good offensive player.
But he’s not a very good hitter.
His offensive game is enormously dependent on him drawing walks.
It’s why he doesn’t drive in many runs. He doesn’t get that many hits. His RBI totals in a line up with that kind of team OBP are striking.
Mell,
That’s exactly what Epstein should be trying to figure out!
I don’t think JD Drews talent is questionable, but his health certainly is. He seems to be around 140 games.
“Ultimately, it seems like Hoyer wanted to deal with the Sox because he wanted the players they had most likely because he was involved with drafting them.”
It’s a defining move for him….you would think he would shop the heck out of it.
Patrick,
Yea, amazing that Iglesias wasn’t in the deal.
CB,
Ok he’s a very good offensive player. Whatever.
My point is, you can’t look at Boston’s lineup and say Drew is a weakness.
gotta go to bed….
Is it possible that SD gets as much for Heath Bell at the trade deadline that they got for Gonzalez?
And did Shaun Marcum just bring back about as valuable a return as SD?
Drew is 35.
Last year could have been a down year for him or it could have been the start of his decline.
Salty and Tek… Good backups…
They need to sign Beltre and deal Youk…
He would bring back a nice haul to Boston…
THey seriously need to improve at catcher.
“I don’t think JD Drews talent is questionable, but his health certainly is. He seems to be around 140 games.”
Yeah, this is accurate. His career OPS+ is 127.
But he’s not a very good hitter.
His offensive game is enormously dependent on him drawing walks.
It’s why he doesn’t drive in many runs. He doesn’t get that many hits.
–
Disagree, outside of 2010, he hit around .270-.280. He didn’t NOT hit that, so he got his hits. He walks a lot but not a tremendous amount. In 2008 he hit .289 with RISP and had like a .900 OPS in risp. In 2007 he had a .800 OPS with RISP. Should we compare those numbers to Yankee hitters?
I think your statement is really untrue. Maybe you should clarify it. JD Drew is a very good hitter, against right handed pitchers.
He gets murdered by lefties, and I’d wager that once the Red Sox have taken a starter out JD Drew will get matched up on, bringing his overall numbers down (especially with RISP).
But its silly to suggest a career .281 hitter is ‘not a very good hitter’.
Iglesias is another super over-rated prospect, IMO. Not saying he can’t be good, just that he hasn’t done enough to give anybody reason to think he will be a quality major leaguer.
I’d rather have Kalish (and I don’t think he’s likely to be a great player, though useful)
“They need to sign Beltre and deal Youk…
He would bring back a nice haul to Boston…
THey seriously need to improve at catcher.”
————–
I’m telling you. Youk ain’t going anywhere. He and Pedroia are the closest thing the Sox have to a “Derek Jeter”
Patrick-
Didn’t mean for that to come off nitpicky.
I phrased the point I was trying to make badly.
Drew doesn’t drive in a lot of runs. He just doesn’t get that many base hits nor does he hit for enormous power.
When looking at the Red Sox line up they could use another bat and that’s part of the reason why.
Drew would be a nice #2 hitter or a valuable piece with guys who knock in runs behind him. But the Sox line up right now is somewhat top heavy. I think Drew’s skill set isn’t ideal for what they need.
Independently he’s not a weakness. But in the context of their team I think he’s not the best fit as things stand now.
they tried Youkilis in the outfield games a couple of years ago and he looked like Lonnie “Skates” Smith without speed.
Drew doesn’t drive in a lot of runs. He just doesn’t get that many base hits nor does he hit for enormous power.
–
In proportion to his at bats, he gets a lot of hits. Because he is a .280 hitter. And his ISO is like 48th highest in MLB history for an outfielder with 5500 PA or more.
CB-
Am I underestimating Kelly, or isn’t Gonzalez worth a Mike Trout level player if you aren’t getting any other cost controlled young guys?
How can Hoyer not have insisted on Buccholz?
BD,
That’s what they said about Roger…
The closest thing Boston ever had to “Derek Jeter” is Teddy Baseball..
Legit !
Youk is expendable…at the right return.
Hoyer’s top priority was gifting Gonzo to the Red Sox. Job well done on his part.
He just gave the Red Sox their hometown hero – a Mexican in a large Mexican community – for a few bags of balls.
Gonzo is the only guy even worth showing up to Petco to watch play for those fans. Hoyer could have just let Gonzo walk in the offseason for 2 draft picks that are as close to or closer to the major leagues than the 3 bags of balls they received.
It doesnt matter whether it is rizzo, iglesias, kelly, doubront, etc. They’re all the same. They’re all zeros and if the Red Sox want a star later on via trade, another team will take their zeros no matter what their names are. The loss of prospects doesnt mean anything. Those 3 “prospects” will be replaced by another 3 “prospects” come Monday morning.
On the other hand, if the Red Sox lost somebody off their major league roster like Bard, that would probably hurt.
I don’t see Youklis as being expendable at all. I think he is an integral part of the Sox, but if they want to trade him out of the AL East so be it.
=====================================
Good night all
JS-
Given that Gonzalez is only signed for one year he’s not going to bring back Mike Trout. If he was moved at the start of last year then that kind of return would have been required.
Kelly was fine as the first player in the deal. They should have gotten a second prospect in return who was better than Rizzo however. That’s where the deal really falls short.
Werth less in D.C. The Nationals are chumps. Werth less’ agent Boras is the king of the hoodwinks. Oh well, National ticket and concession prices are going to move up for the clowns that say, “it’s not my money”.
CB…..After hitting some balls at the driving range, I hit the club bar and ran into some of the baseball guys that I know who are finished until March…..The general consensus is that The Padres did a good job in their return of ballplayers…….Besides the huge stockpile of Yankee dollars, the Bombers are quite loaded with A type prospects ( catching and pitchers )….One person who is familiar with Arizona indicated that as much as the Yanks like Crawford, obtaining Upton is their preference……Two ways to achieve this, one would be moving Swisher ( plus some dough ) Austin, Joba and Brackman who they all agree is going to be a A+ type closer and maybe someone like Nova…….The other option would be Montero & Swisher and maybe Joba……..Nick Swisher is definatley being shopped………Austin is believed to be a leftfielder in the future, much like GB predicted…..His bat and his arm get him a high rating…….Yanks farm system is much improved since a year ago right now……
Joelsherman1
Upton now unlikely to be traded by #Diamondbacks. Are actively working to fill holes elsewhere that would have been filled by moving Upton
Carl…..Time will tell…..
I hope to live to see the day when Montero is such an established Yankee, that there is as much talk of trading him as Jeter in his mid-20s.
One more point, those names that were being passed about tonight are just a broad scope of parts that would be centerpieces to what would be obviously expanded on the Yanks side………Upton can be had this off season regardless what Sherman just tweeted……..Yanks cupboard is getting full and the time could be right to move some of them ……It’s the Hot Stove season and the air is full of noise, but it’s going to be an active winter……
Pat M.
Why is it either or with Upton and Crawford?
One plays LF and the other plays RF.
Only one will cost prospects.
I want a full upgrade to the OF with the end product being Crawford, Granderson and Upton out there with Gardner on the bench until he’s healthy enough to trade.
Bret…..Now that would be a manager’s dream outfield……I’d be overwhelmed with Upton, but add Carl Crawford to the mix is aiming quite high my man……
Pat M. — That’s some excellent news. I’d love to see both The Justin Upton Experience and Robinson Cano hitting in the same line up. Imagine what The Justin Upton could do if the best hitter in the lineup aside from him didn’t strike out at a historic rate? Yowza. If there’s a way to do it without Montero or Hughes I think the Yanks really have got to make the trade.
The Sox dream for Adrian Gonzalez came true.
Most thought that was impossible…
The Yankees have the money for Crawford.
They have the prospects for Upton.
I say get both.
I’d be willing to trade 2 killer B’s for Upton (Betances + Brackman)
I’d offer Joba + Betances + Brackman + Nova/Laird.
The Yankees won’t trade both Brackman and Betances. Romine, Chamberlain, Nova/Noesi, Swisher + cash, and Phelps/Warren and David Adams for Upton and a decent minor leaguer (any position). They could use Romine and a pitcher in a trade to fill another spot.
Bret…One of the things mentioned tonight was that Kevin Towers instructed his scouting department to provide him a list of every organizations top 15 prospects and their top 5 arms…..Towers has some pieces already in place for his rotation ( Saunders, Ian Kennedy ) but he plans on rebuilding the D-Backs in his own image starting with strong pitching…..Towers already not only knows the Yankee players but he also knows the Yanks list of top players from the other clubs….Bombers have an excellent scouting evaluation department ……..As for Carl, well anything is possible, after all these are The NY Yankees you’re talking about…….Cliff Lee will be in The Bronx next season, well that was the unanimous conclusion when his name came up……He wants to pitch with CC and be paid CC type dollars…….Werth’s signing came out of nowhere altough it was known by one person that he was in town Friday…….And I was at The Newport Orthopedic Institute Friday for an epidural shot in my back……That’s where Boras sends all his clients for their medical reports….
GB…Gad you’re still up, because my old pal Bill who has been scouting since the 60′s mentioned Austin tonight…..He thinks Austin can translate into a very good rightfielder, loves his stick as well as your boy Laird…….Apparently so does the Angel brass……He was the guy who told me last winter that Brackman was going to make the big leap in growth in 2010……He is also the same scout who 8 years ago said that Phillip Hughes was one of the top 5 righthand prep pitchers he had ever scouted…..Tom Seaver was his favorite when he was scouting for The Dodgers….Tom Terrific went to USC rather than Chavez Ravine…..Can you imagine how history would have been changed had he signed with LA out of HS
Thanks Pat M. My sentiments almost exactly on Zona D-Backs, as per my post right before midnight. Upton to Yankees isn’t done. Not just yet anyway.
DaSaint007…….It’s not as far fetched as we are led to believe…Will it happen ??? Long shot maybe , it would be nice ……
Pat, I’ve never seen Romine in the outfield other than practice before games shagging flies. I just liked the arm and footspeed. I think he’d be very good there…much likeInge with Detroit. He could probably play everywhere but shortstop. His problem at catching with the interference calls could be fixed, but, I’m not sure what they’d call it, but, I’d call it a slow glove hand. A lot of strikes that are dropped and that needs to a lot of steals. Maybe he closes his eyes or blinks when the pitch comes in at the plate.
I’d hate losing Laird because he’s the onlt 3rd baseman in the system if Suttle is lost in the Rule 5 draft. Rob Lyerly will be in Tampa, but, not at all good with the glove. Giving up Brackman would be a mistake. He’d scare Hell out of batters i the 9th inning.
that ***leads*** to a lot of steals
GB….I always had reservation about Romine’s future as a catcher, but he has a big league stick…….Laird has to be off the list as a trade piece simply for your stated reason……He’s going to have a nice career in the bigs and that might be sooner than expected…….Brackman I think would be a part of a trade to Arizona for Upton if that were ever to materialize……
Laird, both with the glove and bat, reminds me of a young Graig Nettles from the right side of the plate. Neither were great gloves when young, but the arm is there. Range is good but not great. Maybe it’s just learning the hitters. Love that power and run production. he may not hit for a huge aberagem but a .260-.270 would be about right.
Romine can smoke a baseball. He could get to 20 or so homers and a .300 bat is probable. he also is a really good gap hitter…lots of doubles and could steal 15-20 bases. Hate losing Brackman, though. Best closer arm in the system, but it has to hurt some to make it work.
he may not hit for a huge ***average*** but a .260
Good night GB, you’re expected to be up and running for the AM coffee group discussions…….
Night, Pat. I’ll be around…harrassing Randy and Maine and MTU
Good morning, morning people. Thanks for all the good info Pat M. Off to work, let the show begin, do your thing Cash!!!
JCPD
Good morning.
I found this story on Yahoo this morning. One of the towns is where my wife is from and one is where randy has family.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/201.....trap_trees
Maine….. nice story, hope all is well with you and the family
JCPD
We are dealing with the usual cold or flu but that is normal this time of year.
It’s quite fitting that the town that has the biggest tree is where randy’s family is.
Pat M,
If the Snakes would do Swisher, Joba, Romine, and Brackman for Upton then Im doing that in a hot second. It would hurt to lose Brackman and I really like Swisher but he’s going to be a FA soon and they are going to have to either extend or replace him soon anyway. Who better to replace him with than Upton? Dbacks get two high upside arms, a future C/OF, and they can then either flip Swisher or let him.walk after next season and take the draft pick.
Im also ok with the current outfield….but if they do decide to do something then Id prefer somefthing like that to signing Crawford to the deal he’s going to get.
Or they could get a 3rd team involved to take Swisher and send even more prospects to Arizona.
Good morning early birds! We have a few inches of snow on the ground, so it feels like Christmas.
I hope Cashman is in the Holiday Spirit after his elf routine, great pix.
So the sox got AGon after all…I guess they had to do something after the surprise Werth move.
Do the Nationals have money? Could they really be in the running for Lee?
My apologies if this has already been disussed.
Also, I don’t see Crarword getting anywhere near the 8/180 number that’s being thrown around. Werth got 7/126 but it was a clear overpay and clear to everyone that the Nats were bidding against themselves to get him to go there. The teams that are in on Crawford aren’t going to spike what they offer him just because the Nats made a crazy deal for Werth. I can see him also getting 7 years at a higher AAV (140 million or so)…..which is also too much seeing as how Holliday signed for 7/120 last year……..hey the economy must be getting better.
Kate,
Yea the Nats have money. There owner is worth about 4 billion and they have said they want to be aggressive. The problem for them is that they aren’t any good and don’t have a history of success….so until they are they will have to overlay to get players to come there as they did with Werth…..they would have to probably offer significantly more than the Yanks and Rangers to get Lee to come there.
SI_JonHeyman – buzz is lee wants to stay w/ #rangers. but 1 competing gm said, ” steinbrenners arent going to let lee get away this time.
Good morning, morning people.
blake -
I agree with you – no one MUST sign Crawford for what Werth got. Crawford can ask for whatever he wants to; I don’t believe a team MUST go that high. If they feel that they have to have Crawford at any cost, that’s their prerogative, I guess. We’ll have to see what the offers are going forward.
upstate kate -
I love fresh snow. And I hope we have some by the time Christmas rolls around. I don’t know what the big payout to Werth from the Nationals means in terms of Lee. Does it mean they are all-in and signing Werth shows Lee how serious they are about competing? Or do they have any money left? This could get interesting. And I wonder what the Yankees’ limit is. And if Cliff Lee is REALLY going to go where the most money is? Or does serious playoff contention play a role in his decision? Because I don’t think Washington is in the same ballpark as the Yankees in terms of the ability to compete for a playoff spot year in and year out. (Well, at least they haven’t been.)
Pat M – Wow – a ton of information last night. I am not familiar enough with Justin Upton – just reputation based on reading here and hearing general “wow he’s good” things. Is there a concern about his shoulder going forward? I know any trade has to hurt some, but Swisher and Brackman would hurt a lot, to me, though I understand why Swisher is the guy to move from a business point of view. Joba – I’ve gotten used to the idea that he could be moved; Romine – well, I know you can’t keep everyone, let’s put it that way.
Blake:
I think you have it right on Crawford. 8/$180M is just crazy. In fact, 7/$140M is crazy, but it seems like it could get there now. I don’t get near that if I’m the Yankees. Simply not close to worth it.
Good Morning people.
Pat M. -
Thank you so much for sharing that info. Much appreciated. Keep it coming.
Mell,
Me neither. I don’t think the Sox will either. The Angels might or the Rangers if Lee signs with the Yankees…..
maybe the “Lee wants to stay w/ the Rangers” buzz is more of Lee trying to inflate his price. I really don’t see how much allegiance he has to TX after part of a season, no matter how much he liked the guys.
Blake:
Not sure I’d jump in at that price even if the Yankees didn’t get Lee. He’s not a $20M player and doesn’t suddenly become one if Lee were to sign somewhere else.
“Lee wants to stay w/ the Rangers” buzz is more of Lee trying to inflate his price”
Quite possibly. Werth deal probably helped that cause already, but some of these “buzzing noises” guys like Heyman are hearing, such as “If the Rangers go to 6 years, I’ll stay with them” are a means to see that the Yankees go to 6 years.
I think the Yankees will go 6, I hope they wont go 7
Probably Kate, but I don’t know that they start there. Not a lot of reason to go 6 if nobody else is. If they go 5 at the highest AAV being offered, what’s Lee going to do? Not much reason to think he’s going to leave money on the table.
If I’m the Yanks, I offer him whatever the Rangers do – and that’s it. I don’t want any player whose heart is elsewhere, so let him stay in TX if that’s his inclination.
Ahhhh …… yes. There’s a Peter Gammons in training.
“This makes them the favorite,’’ said Kevin Millar, the former Red Sox who is working for MLB TV at this week’s Winter Meetings. “He’s an unbelievable hitter and he’s going to make a big difference. This gives [Kevin Youkilis] a chance to go back to his natural position [third base]. They are stacked right now. I can’t see how they can be beaten.’’
Kate, no one knows what Lee is feeling. Perhaps he really loved it in TX – it sounded like he did. His wife loved it and his kids loved it. I’m not directing this to you, but Yankee fans tend to be very provinical about their team, that players naturally would want to play here and, at the same time, not anywhere else. He probably did form very strong relationships with his Rangers teammates. I know he might have with his Phillies’ as well and he was still going to FA but Philly is not TX.
If I?m the Yanks, I offer him whatever the Rangers do ? and that?s it. I don?t want any player whose heart is elsewhere, so let him stay in TX if that?s his inclination.
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I can see where you are coming from, but from a negotiation stand point, its bad business
I think the Sox probably are the favorite, but to say that it will be impossible to beat them is ridiculous; they aren’t the 1998 Yankees.
I think Cliff Lee has had the Yankees in mind for years.
His good friend pitches there, and his agent got a great deal for another Arkansas boy. He has more long term friends with the Yankees than the Rangers. He also loves the big stage, and he is a perfect fit for YS. Think CC Sabathia all over again–2-3 20 win seasons, and a few WS championships. Likely close to HOF (think Pettitte’s career) if he becomes a Yankee.
I also think the 3 months he pitched for Texas, as well as Nolan Ryan’s aggressiveness, has made him think a bit more. Braunecker is also playing this correctly.
This is an example of a player that is a perfect fit for the Yankees. The only issue is will his stuff age well (like Pettitte) that would justify a contract in the 6-7 year range. My money says it will.
I think he gets a six year contract at slightly under CC AAV, with an opt out like CC after 3 years. Think $22.5 x 6, or 6/135.
As much as the Rangers love him, as much as Arkansas loves him to go to Texas, Rangers offer of something like 5/110 just isn’t going to cut it.
This is reminiscent of the AJ negotiations 2 years ago. Atlanta had an offer on the table, it was close to Arkansas. Yankees came in at the end and upped their offer, and AJ is now a Yankee.
well Betsy, I definitely have an east coast bias!! I admit it…if I had the choice of TX or NY, I would choose NY! So I think Lee should as well
# Betsy December 6th, 2010 at 8:22 am
I think the Sox probably are the favorite, but to say that it will be impossible to beat them is ridiculous; they aren’t the 1998 Yankees.
Shocking!
One other point:
The Red Sox are lefty dominant in their hitting now. The Yankees, if they sign Cliff Lee, and if Pettitte returns, have three dominant lefties who shut down left handed hitting.
Sox do not have any edge even with Gonzalez, at least for this year.
Kate, it just matters what Lee wants………different people want different things. If the Yankees throw ridiculous amounts of $$$ at him to bribe him to come here, they’ll regret it. I know I couldn’t root for him that much (just as a Yankee fan- I would not let myself get attached to him like I do all the Yankees) knowing he wanted to be elsewhere.
Pitt, he’s got all of 2 friends on the Yankees……..and YS might be perfect for him, but he pitched very well in TX, except for the period when he had his back issues.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this plays out; no one knows for sure, even the mediots.
“If I’m the Yanks, I offer him whatever the Rangers do – and that’s it. I don’t want any player whose heart is elsewhere, so let him stay in TX if that’s his inclination.”
I don’t think we can necessarily buy that the “buzz” is a fair indication of what Lee is inclined to do. It’s my understanding that his family is going to remain in Arkansas no matter where he ends up, so in that sense, Texas may seem more plausible. However, in going to NYC we’re only talking about a extra couple hours on a plane, a blow that can be cushioned quite nicely with more money.
As for offering him no more than what Texas is offering, that’s never really been the way the Yankees do business when they really want something. In a competition, you look to top the other guy, not tie him.
Mell,
I don’t think id go near that number either if they miss on Lee. That’s a very long commitment to a guy whose value is so tied to his legs…..he’s a good hitter but take his wheels away and Im not sure what you have. He very well could be a Damon type that stays productive until his mid 30s but that’s hard to predict. I like Crawford a lot as a player but anything over 5 or 6 years at that money would make me nervous…especially when the need doesn’t warrant it.
With the rediculously increasing FA contracts being bandied around, something tells me that trades this week will be fast and furious.
Soon, it will be either impossible for most teams to have more than 2 major stars on their team or young talent is going to get locked up long-term faster and in a more cost-controlled manner than previously.
Either way, it seems as if a FA bubble is being created, and we know that all bubbles are unsupportable long term.
upstate kate,
i am halfway between Saratoga and Albany, and we are having the perfect storm. squalls that don’t stick.
Last year, I really thought GGBG was just a place holder for Crawford, but I am happy to say he exceeded my expectations. If he can recover from the wrist surgery, I think he will be fine.
I lot of noise about Lee doesn’t mean a thing. Don’t take the bait and relax as the process unfolds this week.
Those pictures of Cashman are fantastic-love the striped socks and the Yankee jacket over his elf costume.
New Post: Winter Meetings begin in Orlando
Betsy
Go back to this or other blogs about two years ago and read the comments. AJ had a 4 year deal with Atlanta “all but sewn up” according to the “buzz.” Yankees came in and offered the 5th year, and the deal was done.
All of two good friends is two more than he has on Texas. Yes, Nolan Ryan is making his think about it. But all he has to do is look at Nolan Ryan’s career to see that playing on a constant contender (which Texas is not, despite the hype) makes a lot of difference.