New bats in the East, Yankees quiet so far
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 06, 2010 
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It was on, then it was off, then it was on again. Now the Adrian Gonzalez trade to Boston is official, with the Red Sox having yet to agree to an extension with their new first baseman.
At his introductory press conference, Gonzalez jumped right into the rivalry. “I’m ready to beat the Yanks,” he said.
In other AL East news, the Orioles have traded for Mark Reynolds, adding a ton of power and strikeouts to the middle of their lineup. The Orioles gave up some pitching in the deal, because, you know, the last thing the Orioles need is pitching.
Things seem pretty quiet with the Yankees. I’m sure there’s plenty bubbling beneath the surface, but the team hasn’t been much of a physical presence so far.
As I understand it, most of the Yankees front office folks in attendance are gathered upstairs. That’s not unusual for this sort of thing. Brian Cashman isn’t exactly a roam-the-lobby kind of guy, and his crew doesn’t stray too far. The fact they aren’t especially visible doesn’t mean much.
Associated Press photo
I think everyone believes Tex should start figuring out how to hit opposite field sometimes, but they are probably worried that trying to change his swing will do more harm than good.
The best thing that can happen for Tex is to come out strong in the first month. No more batting .150 in april and may.
I could see Boston trying to upgrade behind the plate by exploring trades for either Chris Snyder (Pit) or Mike Napoli (LAA)
and being the Yankees means not having to be reactionary to every big deal Boston pulls out. Cashman works at his pace and usually gets what he wants, whether it works out or not.
If he wants lee, he will make the best pitch to make it happen.
value of Upton. True.
However, at the same time Lee’s massive (likely 7 year and possibly record breaking) contract will also boost the value of high end, blue chipper ML-ready and near ML ready pitching prospects that a GM like Towers can use to cheaply build a rotation.
Towers has publicly announced that he’s looking for pitching.
The Yankees have several arms of interest that he can use to build a staff.
We really match up in a deal for Upton.
Young pitching prospects are still the currency of baseball and we’ll be reminded of that when the Lee contract dwarfs the Werth one.
“I could see Boston trying to upgrade behind the plate by exploring trades for either Chris Snyder (Pit) or Mike Napoli (LAA)”
Napoli can’t catch.
vs RHP
Jeter
Granderson
Tex
Cano
Alex
Swisher
Posada
Montero
Gardner
VS LHP
Jeter
Swisher
Tex
Cano
Alex
Granderson
Posada
Montero
Gardner
The FA market boosts trade value of both pitchers and position players. Werth’s contract boosts the value of Upton. True.
However, at the same time Lee’s massive (likely 7 year and possibly record breaking) contract will also boost the value of high end, blue chipper ML-ready and near ML ready pitching prospects that a GM like Towers can use to cheaply build a rotation.
Towers has publicly announced that he’s looking for pitching.
The Yankees have several arms of interest that he can use to build a staff.
We really match up in a deal for Upton.
Young pitching prospects are still the currency of baseball and we’ll be reminded of that when the Lee contract dwarfs the Werth one.
Chip – I would think Napoli would be better suited on a team where he can rack up 1b/dh time. If you manager was a catcher and he won’t let you catch, there may be something wrong there
He certainly does hit well enough to garner interest though…
I would guess also that trading Reynolds has put the official “Open for Business” sign in Kevin Towers’s window…
I think Yankee fans are going to get a nice pre-Christmas present this week in the forms of Cliff Lee and an OF – either J-ups or Crawford.
Though I don’t put it beyond Cashman to do a deal that is completely out of Left Field with a player we didn’t even know was available.
My guess also is that Joba Chamberlain rumors are going to start flying this week.
Mell December 6th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
“I could see Boston trying to upgrade behind the plate by exploring trades for either Chris Snyder (Pit) or Mike Napoli (LAA)”
Napoli can’t catch.
—————–
And yet he would still represent a pretty significant improvment behind the plate from the two guys Boston currently has.
still don’t see lee getting a 7 year deal. His age hasn’t changed. He is still 32 years old and that means more when you are a pitcher than for an outfielder like Werth.
Lee matches up with the likes of Johan Santana only older, so the deal Santana signed seems fair. 6/137.5 + a few for good measure.
Please excuse my 12:55 post. It got cut off. The internet does that to me when I’m rambling.
Buster_ESPN Heard this: Beltre camp looking for 5 years, north of $70M.
__
Good luck….. No Sox bidding and won’t take a deal from Oakland, so why would Anaheim offer so much?
Irreverent Discourse December 6th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Chip – I would think Napoli would be better suited on a team where he can rack up 1b/dh time. If you manager was a catcher and he won’t let you catch, there may be something wrong there He certainly does hit well enough to garner interest though…
————————-
I don’t think it’s a question of not letting Nap catch – I think that there were a few factors in LA.
1. the Morales injury forced them to find a new 1b
2. Jeff Mathis is a very good defensive catcher and hits just enough to play everyday.
“And yet he would still represent a pretty significant improvment behind the plate from the two guys Boston currently has”
No, he wouldn’t. He’s much worse. Much better hitter, but he’s not a catcher.
Chip December 6th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
I would guess also that trading Reynolds has put the official “Open for Business” sign in Kevin Towers’s window…
I think Yankee fans are going to get a nice pre-Christmas present this week in the forms of Cliff Lee and an OF – either J-ups or Crawford.
Though I don’t put it beyond Cashman to do a deal that is completely out of Left Field with a player we didn’t even know was available.
My guess also is that Joba Chamberlain rumors are going to start flying this week.
********
Under my tree is Lee, Crawford, Pettitte and Upton.
So,what will it take to get Kenley Jansen?I would love to see him play for the Yankees
SI_JonHeyman Seven teams in on bill hall, who had nice year in boston. Yankees have checked in
–
I thought reporters are supposed to be paragons of knowledge and baseball virtue? Now bill hall has a nice year? Jon Heyman, how did you slip past Sports Illustrateds hiring standards?
ac1 December 6th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Buster_ESPN Heard this: Beltre camp looking for 5 years, north of $70M.
__
Good luck….. No Sox bidding and won’t take a deal from Oakland, so why would Anaheim offer so much?
———————
He’s had a terrible winter:
Boston is out on him, O’s just traded for a 3b, he quite obviously doesn’t want to go to Oakland.
It’s possible that the D’Backs get in on him with Reynolds gone. I think the best fit though is still in St. Louis but he would need to lower his salary demands.
Speaking of St. Louis – what an awful signing wth Lance Berkman.
The guy hasn’t played the OF in years and wasn’t exactly laying out with the glove at 1b so now you’re sticking him in LF? You better give Colby Rasmus double pay for the ground he’s going to have to cover in CF.
Mell December 6th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
“And yet he would still represent a pretty significant improvment behind the plate from the two guys Boston currently has”
No, he wouldn’t. He’s much worse. Much better hitter, but he’s not a catcher.
——————-
I respect your opinion but on this one we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Salty can’t throw the ball back to the mound – Napoli is no Pudge Rodriguez but he’s better than that.
“Now bill hall has a nice year?”
By utility guy with .300 OBP standards, I guess you could say he had a pretty nice year.
I love the winter meetings –
all the reporters are in the same room asking the same questions of the same people and reporting a dozen different stories…just goes to show that the baseball “insiders” are only on the inside when it benefits the team to let them be there.
Chip – Mathis was an awful hitter before his hot start this season and Scoscia still played him over Napoli last year and this year. They split time evenly last year, early this season Napoli was getting 12 at bats a week (I had the unfortunate distinction of having a fantasy catcher rotting on my bench just waiting to get a chance to hit 20 HR’s). The only reason Napoli got any playing time this year at all were the Mathis and Morales injuries. Mathis was hitting out of his mind, it wouldn’t have kept up all year anyway… but Napoli wasn’t even sniffing the lineup. If you look at the time Mathis was hurt, Napoli was still playing second fiddle to their 3rd catcher.
Bret – agreed, pitching is the currency of baseball. And the Yankees are loaded with good, young, cost-controlled pitching. Exactly what Kevin Towers, as well as many others, want.
Could be Upton, could be someone else entirely. Cash works very quietly.
JackCurryYES Braunecker said Lee is on deer hunting excursion. Agent will call him if there’s anything substantive
Ken_Rosenthal
Still hearing that Gonzalez with #RedSox will be no more than 7 yrs/154M – a 22M average salary.
By utility guy with .300 OBP standards, I guess you could say he had a pretty nice year.
–
Shush, I’m poking fun at people thinking Jon Heyman is an arbiter of baseball knowledge because he was hired to be a sportswriter
Mell December 6th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
“Now bill hall has a nice year?”
By utility guy with .300 OBP standards, I guess you could say he had a pretty nice year.
———————-
Problem is that he played a lot more than a utility guy…350 at bats is probably way more than Boston was comfortable with.
Because filling in at 6 positions and hitting 18 home runs is a nice year. He’s far from a perfect player but he has value.
Chip – It just seems an odd fit for a team that already has 2 platoonable catchers and no where else to squeeze Napoli into the lineup.
Jeter press conference tomorrow at 2:30 EST
Joelsherman1 Braunecker says in process of setting up meetings with teams about Lee, including #Yankees. Wouldn’t commit that deal gets done here
Interesting – the Nationals are looking at James Loney – I wonder if a straight up Loney for Willingham deal makes sense for both teams
Irreverent Discourse December 6th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Chip – It just seems an odd fit for a team that already has 2 platoonable catchers and no where else to squeeze Napoli into the lineup.
———————
Probably – there’s still Chris Snyder of the Pirates – his issue isn’t ability so much as a balky back.
Because filling in at 6 positions and hitting 18 home runs is a nice year. He’s far from a perfect player but he has value.
–
Struck out 100 times, also cement fills things in, so I guess ‘fill in’ at multiple positions is an adequate way to describe Bill Hall butchering every fielding chance he got.
Interesting – the Nationals are looking at James Loney – I wonder if a straight up Loney for Willingham deal makes sense for both teams
–
Willingham is way better than Loney. I don’t know why the Nats are suddenly hot to trade Willingham.
Zimmerman Werth Willingham is a much better 3-4-5 than whatever they eventually run out
Another sad passing – Dandy Don Meredith.
Joelsherman1 Braunecker on huge gap between his client and next-best starter available: “It’s good to be Cliff Lee.” #Yankees
ID – Chip was really just responding to my theory that the Sox will not spend the entire season with the Salt/Tek tandem behind the plate. I just don’t think those end up being their catchers for the entire season.
Bill Hall’s slash lines drop by 50 points when he isn’t getting regular playing time.
He has value Jerkface. Why do you think so many teams are interested in him? Because versatile bench players that can hit with power have some value. Of course he has flaws, so do many major league players.
Shame – I agree with your assessment as well… Napoli just seemed like an odd fit to me, he really needs to go to a team that needs a backup catcher and has part time DH/1B room, not a team looking for a starting catcher. I would assume that the Sox would be looking for a starter, since nothing they have currently qualifies :p
Joe from Long Island December 6th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Bret – agreed, pitching is the currency of baseball. And the Yankees are loaded with good, young, cost-controlled pitching. Exactly what Kevin Towers, as well as many others, want.
Could be Upton, could be someone else entirely. Cash works very quietly.
********
Thanks for the feedback, Joe. I was beginning to hear the ringing of my echo in here.
Towers has plenty of pitching prospects to feast on from our system to go with Kennedy and Saunders in his skeleton of a pitching rotation:
Betances
Brackman
Banuelos
Joba
Nova
Noesi
Phelps
Warren
Stoneburner
Ramirez
I believe Cash can get this deal done without surrendering Montero or Hughes.
Jerkface December 6th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Interesting – the Nationals are looking at James Loney – I wonder if a straight up Loney for Willingham deal makes sense for both teams
–
Willingham is way better than Loney. I don’t know why the Nats are suddenly hot to trade Willingham.
Zimmerman Werth Willingham is a much better 3-4-5 than whatever they eventually run out
———————-
I can tell you why the Nats want to trade Willingham: money.
They don’t want to sign him to a new contract and don’t want to lose him for nothing at the end of the season.
Maybe Washington can get the Dodgers to include a prospect or relief pitcher along with Loney…
Bret
Take Joba out of your list above. I don’t know what sort of trade value he has but I’m certain that it isn’t significant enough anymore to use him as the centerpiece of a major trade.
Bret – I still don’t understand why Towers would take so little for such a ridiculously high value chip in Jupton.
Joba had value to AZ in the Haren trade proposals. Yankees balked.
I’m keeping him in there. I suspect their scouts want to make him a starter. He had an awesome showing in the AZ desert during interleague play last year.
He has value Jerkface. Why do you think so many teams are interested in him? Because versatile bench players that can hit with power have some value. Of course he has flaws, so do many major league players.
–
The assertion is that he had a nice season, not anything about his value. He hit under .250, barely OBP’d .300 and struck out 100 times while playing poorly at 6 positions. Mark Teixeira had a nice season, Bill Hall was one of many mediocre players in baseball. Sometimes even Jon Heyman gets it wrong. (well more than some times)
ID,
If you’re Towers and you’re building a pitching rotation – what are you going to do?
You have Kennedy and Saunders.
What are you going to do?
Bret – I don’t know that Towers would be interested in Hughes, because of the sharply increasing salary that he’ll be due in the coming years. And I wouldn’t deal Montero, because good hitting catchers are a premium by themselves and it opens up another hole for Cash. But, I think Cash would present Towers with a list of available pitchers, and say pick one from this group, and maybe one more from that group.
JackCurryYES There shouldn’t be any question abot Cliff Lee and pitching in NY. Braunecker said Lee “has clearly demonstrated,” he can pitch anywhere
Ledger_Yankees Lee’s agent just held court in lobby. says Rangers/Yankees have been most vocal in pursuit though others are interested.
BryanHoch Cliff Lee’s agent, Darek Braunecker, speaks in lobby. Says he’s in process to set up meetings. “We’re going to be seeing a lot of people”
He had an awesome showing in the AZ desert during interleague play last year.
–
Are you talking stuff wise? Because he walked 2 and gave up a hit and struck out 4 in 2 IP. I wouldn’t call that awesome.
Joe,
I love how Cashman pairs prospects like that. I think he can do it in a way that protects Banuelos.
Examples:
Banuelos + Warren + Nova
vs.
Betances + Brackman + Joba
They don’t want to sign him to a new contract and don’t want to lose him for nothing at the end of the season.
–
They’ll get draft picks for Willingham, which is better than getting James Loney.
Towers calls and says gimmi: Swisher, Romine, Betances, Brackman, and Nova for Upton……who says yes?
Jerface – harping on a word like “nice” is silly isn’t it? There is no universal definition for nice. To some, 18 home runs and 46 RBI’s is nice. You just want to attack John Heyman.
ID – agreed on the catching front. I honestly don’t know what they’ll do but I wonder if getting a good hitting, somewhat less than capable catcher to use as a part of a trio of catchers would be possible. Obviously, I doubt they would waste 3 spots on that position but maybe they aren’t sure about Gonzalez’s start of the season and would use Napoli as a possible back up?
But I’m just spewing out nonsense lol, I don’t even care about Boston’s catchers. I have enough to worry about with ours.
Yes, I do. That is my stated purpose. Jon Heyman is a twit. You’ve cracked the case of ‘Jerkface bashes Jon Heyman’.
I hope the Yanks keep Ramirez.
He’s a guy who I think has ace-type potential.
But the Yanks obviously know 100x more about him than I do.
Honesty is good.
blake – yes.
Bret – I would certainly trade my best piece (jupton) for Major league ready starters, not hopefuls. I really don’t understand what he got back for Reynolds as being enough either… it’s very curious what he’s up to out there.
BryanHoch Cliff Lee’s agent says they have visited with “significantly more clubs” than just the Yankees and Rangers.
Blake.. i say yes !
Bret-
Also the Diamondbacks have Daniel Hudson, their best pitcher.
They need an entirely new bullpen.
Towers might have seen Mark Reynolds as a guy trending down. 2010 could have been bad luck, but the guy hits under .200 with no power in all 2 strike counts except full. He really needs to alter his 2 strike approach because all it does is kill his stats.
If Towers thinks Reynolds will be WORSE next year, maybe this trade represents his pinnacle value? I thought he could have done better, and if I were the yankees I’d have traded beans for Mark Reynolds to be a backup at third, but maybe no other club offered anything and Towers pulled the trigger figuring if Reynolds hits .150 next year he’d be sunk.
ID, Towers also got out from under 13 million dollars. Reynolds was set to make 5 and 7.5 the next 2 seasons.
ID,
Brackman, Betances and Banuelos are more major league ready or at least as ML ready as Casey Kelly. All 3!!! Joba and Nova are major league ready as well. Joba has a full season of starting under his belt in the AL East. He could beast in the NL West. Even if he can’t, the Yankees still have plenty of arms that AZ showed interest in (including Joba) as recently as the Haren trade talks in July.
I wonder how much CC’s friendship with Lee makes a difference. You hear lots about that, but it’s hard to quantify it’s importance.
Bret The Hitman December 6th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
ID,
If you’re Towers and you’re building a pitching rotation – what are you going to do?
You have Kennedy and Saunders.
What are you going to do?
—————————–
hope to develop some
The Nationals are looking for a closer, I’m not sure who they have of interest , But maybe dangle Joba and see what bites
Jarrod Parker’s promising kid who missed all of last year with tommy john.
Daniel Hudson had a 1.69 ERA in 11 starts after being acquired from the CHISOX in the Edwin Jackson trade.
Mark Reynolds should set a new record for strikeouts playing against the tough pitching staffs of the AL East.
What about Betances for Marmol?
blake – I don’t know. I’m no GM, for sure, but two A-pitching prospects (one of whom is nearly ML ready), another young cost-controlled SP with ML-experience; a nearly ready young C; and an All Star RF seems like an awful lot, even for a player with Upton’s potential. Potentially, that’s three SPs, a starting C, and a starting RF. All for one LF, good though he may be.
I don’t know.
“I wonder how much CC’s friendship with Lee makes a difference. You hear lots about that, but it’s hard to quantify it’s importance.”
Not to mention, I bet he has close relationships with a lot of guys throughout MLB. Don’t think it will impact his decision much. Especially when it comes to choosing between us and TX considering he appears to have a lot of good buddies on TX as well, including the owner.
Jerkface December 6th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
They don’t want to sign him to a new contract and don’t want to lose him for nothing at the end of the season.
–
They’ll get draft picks for Willingham, which is better than getting James Loney.
————————-
If their choices are Loney or giving big money to Carlos Pena or Adam LaRoche I can’t find fault in trading for Loney.
And I completely disagree with the premise that an unknown draft pick is better than Loney – Loney may not be a star but he is a major league 1b. What percentage of draft picks (even in the top three rounds) flame out before the majors?
Mark Reynolds should set a new record for strikeouts playing against the tough pitching staffs of the AL East.
-
The Padres, Giants, and Dodgers had better strike out staffs than the AL east teams. Though I do wonder how the pitcher spot affected that. I don’t think coming to the AL East is going to make him strike out more. On the contrary, his power numbers might go up in the nice hitters parks.
That makes sense Red Lobster. I guess it will simply come down to Cliff and his wife sitting down and deciding.
What about Betances for Marmol?
————————————
Betances and what others to pry away the best left handed closer in the league with a 2.125M 2010 arbitration aligible contract
Ugly picture…….
Mark Reynolds should set a new record for strikeouts playing against the tough pitching staffs of the AL East.
————————
He also may hit 60 home runs going from Arizona, San Diego, Los Angeles and San Francisco to Camden, the Trop, Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Rogers Centre
The Red Sox are interested in lefty relievers Brian Fuentes and Ron Mahay, reports Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald
Yankee Trader December 6th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
What about Betances for Marmol?
————————————
Betances and what others to pry away the best left handed closer in the league with a 2.125M 2010 arbitration aligible contract
——————
Marmol is right handed
Chip,
You’re being irrational. Loney put up this line in 2010: .267 .329 .395 .723 , his 2009 is not much better: .281 .357 .399 .756
He is basically casey kotchman with LESS power and less upside. He is a major league first baseman by dint of there being no one to replace him on the dodgers. He is arbitration elig and made 3 mil last season, so will likely get a raise because arbitration is stupid.
Willingham has hit a combined: .263 .377 .479 .856 with 40 HRs for the Nats in 2 seasons. He is worth much more than James Loney.
I do not begrudge the Nats for trying to trade for Loney, I begrudge your assertion that they would trade WIllingham for Loney. That’d be a huge steal for the Dodgers.
Any chump could hit Loneys line in the majors. You give Juan Miranda the same amount of ABs he will outpace Loney’s 2010.
“What about Betances for Marmol?”
Marmol’s walk rate is pretty frightening.
Guy I’m curious about is Carlos Quentin.
If he could stay healthy he’s absolutely an impact player.
Joe from LI – The problem with reading his value is that Upton is 22 and doesn’t get a new contract until 2015.
Year Age Team Salary
2011 23 Arizona Diamondbacks $4,250,000
2012 24 Arizona Diamondbacks $6,750,000
2013 25 Arizona Diamondbacks $9,750,000
2014 26 Arizona Diamondbacks $14,250,000
2015 27 Arizona Diamondbacks $14,500,000
He should outperform this contract by double at least.
KenDavidoff The #Yankees are planning for Derek Jeter and Hal Steinbrenner to appear together tomorrow at a news conference in Tampa.
If Hoyer thought that package was worthy, he’s nuts. I hate Gonzalez already……..and if the Yankees go 7 for Lee, they are nuts. If that’s what it takes to get him, let him stay in TX
Joe,
I don’t know if I would either. One thing to consider is that they are going to have to make a decision on Swisher pretty soon…either extend him or let him walk. Also, there isn’t going to be room for all the pitchers and.catchers they have. I get what you’re saying but then again if I could get a guy like Upton with an affordable longterm contract by dealing from excess and not trading Montero, Hughes, or Banuelos…….then I think you have to consider it.
“I think he’s going to be unbelievable in Fenway Park,” said San Diego Padres General Manager Jed Hoyer, a former Red Sox assistant. “He hit so many fly balls the other way, so many times, that just died helplessly before the warning track at Petco Park. So I think he’s going to be a monster at Fenway Park. They got themselves a great player.”
“It’s not easy; it’s not something that necessarily feels good to do,” Hoyer said. “But we felt like it was absolutely necessary to do for the long-term health of the franchise. I’m sure there will be disappointed fans because they wanted to watch Adrian in his last year in San Diego. But we only had Adrian for one more season; that much was made clear. And once we knew it was only one season, we thought the right move was to act somewhat preemptively to get the best package of young players back.”
One thing to consider is that they are going to have to make a decision on Swisher pretty soon…either extend him or let him walk.
—
2 Years is a long time. Its not really ‘soon’. And they won’t do a deal mid-season so I assume Swisher walks.
Jerkface December 6th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Chip,
You’re being irrational. Loney put up this line in 2010: .267 .329 .395 .723 , his 2009 is not much better: .281 .357 .399 .756
He is basically casey kotchman with LESS power and less upside. He is a major league first baseman by dint of there being no one to replace him on the dodgers. He is arbitration elig and made 3 mil last season, so will likely get a raise because arbitration is stupid.
Willingham has hit a combined: .263 .377 .479 .856 with 40 HRs for the Nats in 2 seasons. He is worth much more than James Loney.
I do not begrudge the Nats for trying to trade for Loney, I begrudge your assertion that they would trade WIllingham for Loney. That’d be a huge steal for the Dodgers.
Any chump could hit Loneys line in the majors. You give Juan Miranda the same amount of ABs he will outpace Loney’s 2010.
—————————————-
You guys who drool over prospects and draft picks put a smile on my face.
What percentage of players currently in the minors are going to actually make it to the show in a meaningful way 20 – 30% at most?
Between injuries and failure to develop most “top prospects” flame out long before realizing their potential.
Is James Loney great? No – but he’s very good defensively and; while he doesn’t give you the prototypical slash line you want from a 1b, he’s going to give you gap power and a decent on base guy.
I highly doubt that any chump could give you that production and if the Nats are looking to deal Willingham in a cost saving maneuver then it makes sense.
It’s moot anyway since a subsiquent report says that the Dodgers have no intention of moving Loney given that the options on the market are too expensive for them.
Looks like Melvin Mora is the new Diamonback 3B.
Chip- My bad. Marmol is indeed right handed but limited lefties to a miniscule .130 BA.
Me and a friend did the research with hittracker and this tool (http://katron.org/projects/baseball/hit-location/).
It’s not good…
A-Gon is going to hit like 40 HR’s for the Sox… He was hitting 10 at home and 20 on the road and he stands to gain at least 10 at home, not to mention extra HR’s from not playing in the cavernous NL West.
I wouldn’t trade Betances for Marmol.
“Towers calls and says gimmi: Swisher, Romine, Betances, Brackman, and Nova for Upton……who says yes?”
The Yankees would say yes but in this scenario it must have been Towers’ evil twin calling because there is no way Arizona would be getting enough in this deal.
Blake, no way.
Assuming the Yankees do not bring in Carl Crawford or Justin Upton my guess is that Swisher’s future is at least partially tied to the development of Brandon Laird.
If Laird shows that he can play a solid RF and the bat continues to develop the Yankees will let Swisher go and use Laird as the RF.
My guess is still that Justin Upton will be here and Swisher will be moved for a relief pitcher or depth before spring training.
Trader -
Mora’s not a bad option for them all things being equal – he’s going to give those kids a veteran presence and some leadership.
Whether or not he can still play is another issue entirely.
As with the A-Gon situation, Upton will not get moved until the end of this initial contract. Towers will never be able to collect enough for him until it’s too late.
James Loney is not good. He’s certainly not “very good” defensively. Average at best, and significantly below average at the plate for a 1B.
Willingham for Loney is a terrible trade for the Nats
Chip,
Again, I disagree. Laird will never be as good as Swisher.
I don’t see Laird being the Yankees rightfielder.
I agree Chip -
Something tells me Upton will be on the Yanks.
Nice appearance by CGrand on First Take.
But outspoken Yankee hater, Skip Bayless made me
by saying this
Why aren’t the Red Sox in on Lee? They overpaid for Beckett. They overpaid for Lackey. They overpaid for Dice-K. Adrian Gonzalez is great, but it’s not enough to really compete. And as great as Gonzalez is we don’t know for sure what he is going to do transitioning to the AL East.
“A-Gon is going to hit like 40 HR’s for the Sox… ”
I’d sign up for that… that’s what I’d expect from him in that park.
I just hope he doesn’t approach 50. Not only is he going from an awful park to a great one, he is going from an awful lineup to a great one. can’t pitch around him.
You can be heart-set on Justin Upton being a Yankee… that’s fine. Just be aware that any deal accepted by Towers would mean, by definition, the Yankee’s overpaid for him.
Skip Bayless knows nothing about baseball.
LGY – I think another overpay by the Sox (especially to the Lee magnitude) could set them back a lot of years if he goes Pavano on them..
Why are the Yankees trading their best OF for a RP?
Anybody that trades for Justin Upton is going to overpay. Arizona doesn’t have to trade him.
“Why aren’t the Red Sox in on Lee? They overpaid for Beckett. They overpaid for Lackey. They overpaid for Dice-K. Adrian Gonzalez is great, but it’s not enough to really compete. And as great as Gonzalez is we don’t know for sure what he is going to do transitioning to the AL East.”
I agree with every part of this statement except for the last bit about transitioning to the AL east.
Lee is one of those free agents that you can’t pass up, no matter who you have on your staff. I guess it comes down to economics though, Boston just has too much money tied up in starting pitching.
Is James Loney great? No – but he’s very good defensively and; while he doesn’t give you the prototypical slash line you want from a 1b, he’s going to give you gap power and a decent on base guy.
I highly doubt that any chump could give you that production and if the Nats are looking to deal Willingham in a cost saving maneuver then it makes sense.
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No, how is a guy who slugs under .400 giving you GAP power? So Brett Gardner is giving the yankees GAP power? The Nats would save maybe 1 or 2 mil in any Loney and Willingham swap while significantly weakening their club.
Loney’s on base and slugging were WAY under par for 1st base, and his on base was under average for the MLB as a whole.
He isn’t good.
And he isn’t cheap.
Skip Bayless is an idiot but anytime I have ever watched First Take he is signing the praises of the Red Sox and how much he hates the Yankees.
I just couldn’t believe he said that stuff.
I would love Justin Upton on the Yankees…. if they can get him without trading Hughes or Montero. In other words, I don’t want Justin Upton because there is no way he gets here without Hughes or Montero going back to the D-backs
Patrick -
“As good as Swisher” is a relative term. I think Swisher is good – I don’t think he’s good enough that I would want to sign him to a long term contract when the one he’s on runs out.
Do I think Laird will be a stud outfielder – having never seen the man play the outfield I can’t tell you.
For what it’s worth Mattingly’s view on him this fall was “If he can get to the ball he’s going to catch it” which would suggest to me that he’s sure-handed but doesn’t have the greatest range…that’s fine.
Again, he’s also going to have to prove that he can hit at the upper levels of the minors. Basically he has a year to show that he’s ready to make the leap.
In the end, I think it’s unlikely he is the Yankee RF simply because I think Justin Upton will be a Yankee by the time the meetings wrap up…and likely Laird will be part of the group going the other way.
Jerkface….I love Swisher and am not advocating they deal them. Only would consider it for.someone like Upton that is that age and has that contract.
James Loney was one of the worst starting 1B in baseball last year.
LGY December 6th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Why are the Yankees trading their best OF for a RP?
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Because I said so.
(it’s just easier to go this route than run through the endless machinations and arguments. Plus I’m already tied up with Jerkface trying to explain that a guy who has already shown he can play in the majors is better than a compensation round draft pick that hasn’t even been identified yet.)
“Why are the Yankees trading their best OF for a RP?
”
Putting too much stock in Swisher’s postseason combined with putting too much stock in Granderson’s hot 6 weeks.
I don’t mind dealing Swisher, but I’m not trading him and Brackman and Betances for Upton. I’m not dealing Betances at all.
Laird is maybe a Hinske type. I sure wouldn’t assume he progresses enough to be a starting right-fielder.
For what it’s worth Mattingly’s view on him this fall was “If he can get to the ball he’s going to catch it” which would suggest to me that he’s sure-handed but doesn’t have the greatest range…that’s fine.
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That is the biggest non-statement I’ve ever read. If he can get to the ball he’s going to catch it? You can say that about literally 100% of the outfielders in baseball. Heck, if I could get to a ball I will catch it. It’s not hard.
My point is that you are overrating Laird and underrating Swisher. Laird will be lucky to be an average starting OF in the majors. More likely he’ll be a bench player that can play adequate defense at the corners and hit for some power but little else.
Swisher on the other hand is a pretty decent fielder in RF, hits for power, now hits for average (we’ll see how long that lasts though) and has really good OBP skills. Laird will never be that good.
Crawdaddy December 6th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
Anybody that trades for Justin Upton is going to overpay. Arizona doesn’t have to trade him.
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Arizona didn’t have to trade Reynolds but they did, and the Orioles didn’t have to give up the farm to get him.
I think the Yankees could get Upton for a package of Laird, Betances, Romine and Warren or Phelps…that’s plenty reasonable in my book.
Plus I’m already tied up with Jerkface trying to explain that a guy who has already shown he can play in the majors is better than a compensation round draft pick that hasn’t even been identified yet
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Any major leaguer is not better than ‘a draft pick’ if you have better options available for free or for similar cost on the market. For example, if your choice is: Willingham for 1 season + 2 draft picks, or Loney for 1 season.
The choice is clear.
The draft picks come WITH willingham, they’re not a single item.
Lets be realistic folks. If you want Justin Upton the Yankees would have to trade something like, Hughes, Montero, Brackman to get him. That’s not going to happen.
I think the Yankees could get Upton for a package of Laird, Betances, Romine and Warren or Phelps…that’s plenty reasonable in my book.
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How are the Yankees going to get the next potential superstar outfielder for a package without a single “A” prospect? Is Kevin Towers high on crack in your trade scenario?
Chip – You are right, they didn’t have to trade Reynolds, but as you said earlier they probably sold high on him. He already costs $13mil, and his value is at a precipice. A bad year could destroy it.
Upton is not in that situation at all.
Patrick -
I’m not underrating Swisher I just don’t think he’s going to be worth the money that the market has set for players who put up his numbers.
By that I mean – how much are you willing to invest in him as a Free Agent? Assume for a second that the Yankees don’t trade for Upton and keep Swisher. They pick up his option for next year and then what – he’s a 31/32 year old OF – Do you want to give him Werth money to stick around? I don’t. Do you want to sign him into his mid-late 30′s? I don’t.
Do I think Laird will be as good as Swisher? Again I don’t know. But in fairness when the Yankees traded for Swisher they didn’t think he would be as good as he’s been either – so maybe Laird surprises…maybe they make a move in the meantime to make it a moot argument entirely.
Patrick,
Maybe, I don’t know. Depends on what Towers thinks of some of the other arms on the Yanks system. We’ll see.
Patrick-
Im not so sure !… the Red Sox just landed one of the best players in baseball for 3 double A prospects . If we give them an All-Star RF in Swisher and some decent prospects then i think we have a good shot
Chip – There is zero chance Towers would accept that package of players. If he did he would be promptly fired like the last GM that gave away Haren.
No of course I wouldn’t give Swisher that kind of money. I’d trade for a good outfielder that’s signed to a decent contract… similar to what Cashman has done in each of the last two offseasons.
If I’m Cashman, I’m not afraid to deal Chamberlain. Romine, Nova, Russo, or Cervelli as starting points in a deal.
Only if it’s a dealmaker would I deal any of Phelps, Brewer, Betances, Baneulos, Mesa, Sanchez, or Murphy.
Always allow for the 7/31 trading deadline in the event a player is needed.
Im not so sure !… the Red Sox just landed one of the best players in baseball for 3 double A prospects . If we give them an All-Star RF in Swisher and some decent prospects then i think we have a good shot
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I’m assuming that in this deal Kevin Towers doesn’t bend over and willingly offer his virgin ass to Cashman like Hoyer did for Theo.
A deal for Upton is much different tthan Gonzalez. Only a handful of teams could afford Gonzalez which limited the competition for him…..virtully every team could afford Upton including the Dbacks. It would take a load of quality prospects…..but the Yankees could pull it off if they wanted to…..question is what players it would take.
You wouldn’t necessarily have to give up Montero for Upton if it was a three-way deal where another team sent someone special to Arizona. For instance, Greinke.
Cliff Lee Rumors: Monday
By Tim Dierkes [December 6 at 1:01pm CST]
Cliff Lee’s agent Darek Braunecker held court today at the Winter Meetings, but didn’t say much. The latest on the lefty:
- The Yankees are expected to meet with Braunecker again today, tweets ESPN’s Buster Olney.
- Braunecker says they have visited with “significantly more clubs” than just the Yankees and Rangers, tweets MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch. Braunecker is in the process of setting up meetings.
– MLBTR
You wouldn’t necessarily have to give up Montero for Upton if it was a three-way deal where another team sent someone special to Arizona. For instance, Greinke.
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Why would Arizona want Greinke? He’s going to be a FA in 2 years and he costs 27 million until then. Arizona needs prospects
Forget HR, though he’ll hit many.
Adrian Gonzalez will probably have more than 80 XBH for the Sox. He’s going to pepper the Green Monster and hit plenty of bombs as well.
An OPS over 1 seems very reasonable, IMO.
The point is a three-way where another team provides the Montero caliber player. It was an example.
blake December 6th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Towers calls and says gimmi: Swisher, Romine, Betances, Brackman, and Nova for Upton……who says yes?
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First, Lee would have to be signed to give up Nova. Then remove Betances, add in Noesi who is ready to start in the majors. Give them Joba who is more proven and take out Brackman. You give the Snakes Joba, Swish, Romine, Noesi who his ready to start or relieve right now and Nova who can also start for you. Or add in choice of Warren or DJ Mitchell. Snakes get a truckload of pitchers (but we are still deep on the farm in that dept.) and Romine’s and Swish’s bats. Joba can also be converted to a starter, which he will never get the opportunity to do here. Of course, depends on how high Tower rates that group, but go for quantity and try to retain Killer B’s.
I would gladly trade 1 Brett Gardner plus prospects for one Shin-Soo Choo. Thoughts?
Patrick,
They probably wouldn’t.
I wish all these pipe dream trades were a little more realistic, but I guess it’s fun to play armchair GM. I don’t get why anyone would spend time devising imaginary trades that have no chance of being more than a random blog post, but i guess it’s their prerogative.
At least the Yanks have a deeper farm system these days so those who want to, can spend days devising an endless # of moves.
raymagnetic December 6th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
I would gladly trade 1 Brett Gardner plus prospects for one Shin-Soo Choo. Thoughts?
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Depends on which prospect. Gardner for Choo though, I would do in a heartbeat.
BD (Boston Dave) December 6th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Patrick,
They probably wouldn’t.
I wish all these pipe dream trades were a little more realistic, but I guess it’s fun to play armchair GM. I don’t get why anyone would spend time devising imaginary trades that have no chance of being more than a random blog post, but i guess it’s their prerogative.
At least the Yanks have a deeper farm system these days so those who want to, can spend days devising an endless # of moves.
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Hard to say. Towers is a pitching prospects guru, so depends on how he ranks specific pitchers of ours.