Steinbrenner not elected to Hall of Fame
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 06, 2010 
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The Expansion Era Committee has elected one new member to the Baseball Hall of Fame, and it’s not George Steinbrenner.
Pat Gillick, the longtime general manager, was the only person on the ballot to receive the necessary 12 votes. He got 13. Next closest was Marvin Miller who fell one vote shy. The only other name receiving as many as eight votes was Dave Concepcion.
Ted Simmons, Vida Blue, Steve Garvey, Ron Guidry, Tommy John, Billy Martin, Al Oliver, Rusty Staub and Steinbrenner each received votes from less than half of the committee.
UPDATE, 11:01 a.m.: Tom Verducci, who was on the committee, said the election process was very private. The committee itself didn’t know who had been elected until this morning. They went through the ballot, one name at a time, and debated each candidate. Then each member filled out a ballot and left the room.
“I really didn’t have a feeling one way or the other about anybody,” Verducci said. “I guess that means the vote totals for me – not just for Steinbrenner, but for a few guys – were surprising, because there’s so much back-and-forth that you don’t really know where the votes lie. It wouldn’t have surprised me if he got in, and I guess it’s a little bit surprising that he didn’t get in.”
Although this was not the first year Steinbrenner was eligible, Johnny Bench said there was a sense that it was too soon to elect him.
“Some people thought it was too early,” Bench said. “… He will be (elected). I believe he certainly will be.”
# Carl December 6th, 2010 at 10:10 am
Omg what in the world just came out of Pat Gillicks nose!
Chip December 6th, 2010 at 10:10 am
SJ -
Frankly I’m giddy the Nationals signed Werth for a couple of reasons:
1. Puts a crimp in the plans of the Sox as you said
2. Philly doesn’t get a first round pick for the guy. Washington’s first round pick was protected based on their record so instead the Phillies get a second rounder.
The one thing I will say is that I’m slightly disappointed that right after signing Werth the Nats put Willingham on the block. I know they still want Carlos Pena and a pitcher but in their place I might move Willingham to 1b and still try to sign a starter (Pavano).
Now if they can get a starting pitcher back for Willingham that would be another kettle of fish entirely.
Anyone who thinks the Boss doesn’t belong in the hall has simply not been paying attention to baseball for the last 40 years.
That’s why when you hear the word “buzz” when it comes to anything, you have to take that info with a grain of salt.
We heard for an hour that the “buzz” was indicating The Boss being elected.
And he wasn’t even close.
That’s why I don’t get excited, or disappointed, when initial reports about anything come out.
I’m going to preface this by saying “if money was no object this is what I would do”
1. Sign Lee
2. Trade Montero, Warren, Adams and Ivan Nova to KC for Greinke
3. Trade Gardner and Joba to SD for Heath Bell and Nik Hundley
4. Sign Crawford
5. Sign Russ Martin
6. Sign Scott Downs
Lineup:
Jeter – SS
Crawford – LF
Tex – 1b
Alex – 3b
Cano – 2b
Swisher – RF
Posada – DH
Martin – C
Granderson – CF
Bench: Hundley, Nunez, Andruw Jones, Austin Kearns
Rotation:
CC, Greinke, Lee, Hughes, AJ
Pen:
RHP: Mo, Bell, Robertson, Mitre,
LHP: Downs, Logan, Andrew Sisco
JackCurryYES Gillick said “have to ask the committee” why Marvin Miller wasn’t voted in to Hall again.
Who do the Sox have left to trade for Willingham? Would they want to move even more prospects from their gutted farm system for him?
These Hall of Fame votes are really a disgrace. Who do these committee members think they are? It’s probably anti-Yankee sentiment from guys like Johnny Bench, Eddie Murray, and Ozzie Smith who just run their mouths all day. Grow up. The Boss should be in there. I say the Steinbrenners should snap and start signing everyone.
It’s an absolute joke that Pat Gillick is in the HOF before George and Marvin Miller.
I should have also prefaced my last post with “and I ruled the world.”
Steinbrenner I can understand as he was a very controversial figure who was not all peaches and cream. Marvin Miller is hard to understand.
blake December 6th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Who do the Sox have left to trade for Willingham? Would they want to move even more prospects from their gutted farm system for him?
———————————–
Blake – they could offer Ellsbury and Lars Anderson
Gillick may be very deserving but no one person has had an impact on the game of baseball in the last 50 years more than Miller and excluding him questions the judgement of those doing the electing.
I look forward to hearing some of their rationale.
Blake,
Ellsbury or Kalish + Lowrie is a good start towards acquiring Willingham. A CF and a SS combo.
I’m going to preface this by saying “if money was no object this is what I would do”
1. Buy the Yankees and run them from my private 747 staffed by Victoria’s Secret models.
And if money is an object then I’ll continue to sit at my computer and do nothing.
So much for the “buzz” that George was getting into the HOF.
Chip, that’s a lot of moving parts: 2 trades, and 4 FA signings, one of which will cost a draft pick.
Two of the signings would most likely cost approx $300M, and 6 young players (3 of which have ML experience) would be traded.
I’m voting no partner.
Bx Jeers: Had this been a few years ago, I’d join you on that flight.
“Gillick may be very deserving but no one person has had an impact on the game of baseball in the last 50 years more than Miller and excluding him questions the judgement of those doing the electing”
There are 4 owners on the 16 person voting committee. Wouldn’t shock me if they all panned Miller. The 5th no vote is puzzling. Hard to imagine a player not voting for him except for Palmer, but Palmer said he was going to be a yes. Be interesting to see who the no’s were.
JackCurryYES Gillick said Steinbrenner wanted to go 162-0 when Gillick worked for Yankees.
DaSaint007 December 6th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Chip, that’s a lot of moving parts: 2 trades, and 4 FA signings, one of which will cost a draft pick.
Two of the signings would most likely cost approx $300M, and 6 young players (3 of which have ML experience) would be traded.
I’m voting no partner.
——————————-
As I said “if money was no object”
Plus I’ll take Lee and Crawford over draft picks any day.
i don’t think of pat gillick as a hall of famer in the sense of a mantle or mays or aaron.
with a quick look , they make up these veteran commitees quite randomly mixing and matching criteria and voting members of the committees.
with this random way they do things, looks like cashman is a lock for the hall of fame.
now that just isn’t right
http://community.baseballhall......px?pid=499
Results of the 2009 Executives/Pioneers Ballot (9 votes needed for election): John Fetzer (8 votes, 66.7%), Marvin Miller (7 votes, 58.3%), Jacob Ruppert (7 votes, 58.3%), Ewing Kauffman (6 votes, 50 percent). Gene Autry, Sam Breadon, Bob Howsam, John McHale, Gabe Paul and Bill White each received less than 3 votes.
The Veterans Committee for Executives and Pioneers consisted of Hall of Famers Robin Roberts and Tom Seaver; former executive John Harrington (Red Sox); current executives Jerry Bell (Twins), Bill DeWitt (Cardinals), Bill Giles (Phillies), David Glass (Royals), Andy MacPhail (Orioles) and John Schuerholz (Braves); and veteran media members Rick Hummel (St. Louis Post-Dispatch), Hal McCoy (Dayton Daily News) and Phil Pepe (New York Daily News).
The two Veterans Committees who consider managers and umpires and executives and pioneers will consider candidates again in 2011 for the 2012 Induction year. Eligible players whose big league careers began after 1942 will next have their candidacy reviewed again in 2010 for the 2011 Induction year, while eligible players whose big league careers began prior to 1943 will next have their candidacy reviewed in 2013 for the 2014 Induction year.
Pat Gillick was a very good GM, but when I think about people who shaped the game he is not a name that comes to mind. George and Marvin Miller on the other hand are.
By the way – I know the fix is probably already in, but if Bud gets into the Hall and George doesn’t I will boycott the Hall of Fame for the remainder of my life.
As it is I’m on the fence – over the years it has become the Hall of Very Good Players Who Were Nice to Reporters.
Bx Jeers: Had this been a few years ago, I’d join you on that flight.
————————————————————————–
Why? Are you a former Vic Secret model?
Chip,
My counter offer:
1. Sign Lee.
2. Trade Joba+Mitre+Brackman+Swisher+Romine to Zona for Upton+Kennedy.
3. Trade 2 minor league arms for Phil Coke or sign Feliciano.
Rotation:
1. CC
2. Lee
3. Hughes
4. AJ
5. Pettitte
Bullpen:
Mariano
Robertson
Nova
Logan
Coke/Feliciano
Mosley
AAA arm
Marvin Miller not being in is a travesty!
Any interest in this proposal:
Ivan Nova and Joba Chamberlain to the Brewers for Lorenzo Cain and Manny Parra?
darrenrovell: Marvin Miller gets snubbed from HOF. Without him, Jayson Werth would have signed a 7-year, $5 million contract.
LOL@ Bx Jeers. Ok buddy, I get it. You’re not sharing!
Chip, the only person on the Brewers I’m trading for is Ryan Braun.
I’ll be honest – I wouldn’t know Lorenzo Cain if he was standing infront of me, but in looking up his numbers he seems to be a pretty talented CF (with the Yankees he would play LF) and has a nice bat from the right side.
The Brewers (who I think made a fine trade this weekend getting Marcum for Lawrie) are shopping Cain for pitching help.
what no Ron Guidry??? My all time favorite player!!! I am shocked, just shocked!!! OK, not really shocked, I guess I will have to settle for him being in Monument Park.
Chip,
I’ll admit, and you may recall, that I always felt that Kennedy would become a good mid-rotation pitcher, just as I alwasy thought that Phil Coke had a good mid-relief arm that could even be a starter. I kow why Kennedy was traded – attitude – and I know that you have to give to get – Granderson – but I’d like to see them back.
Probably not happening, but I can dream can’t I?
Yea I guess they could do that but Willingham himself is almost to free agency…
would they work out an extension with him or trade those players to rent him for a year.
Anyone have interest in giving Joe Crede a minor league deal and seeing if his bat (and back) are healthy enough to serve as a bat off the bench and part time player who could give Alex a rest at 3b?
pat December 6th, 2010 at 10:33 am
And that Pat is why the owners snubbed him!
TylerKepner
Gillick said when he started, he thought teams should be 70/30 talent/character. As he went on, he realized it’s 60/40 character/talent.
13 minutes ago via Mobile Web
***********
If Cashman’s serious when he talks about character guys, I can see how the Yankees front office unanimously covets Carl Crawford. He fits right in with Sabathia, Granderson, Swish and other recent Yankees recruits.
DaSaint007 December 6th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Chip,
I’ll admit, and you may recall, that I always felt that Kennedy would become a good mid-rotation pitcher, just as I alwasy thought that Phil Coke had a good mid-relief arm that could even be a starter. I kow why Kennedy was traded – attitude – and I know that you have to give to get – Granderson – but I’d like to see them back.
Probably not happening, but I can dream can’t I?
—————————–
I think Kennedy is where he needs to be…a weak hitting league and a big home ball park. I just don’t think he has enough stuff to miss bats and in the AL East especially that’s going to get you lit up. So while I think he’s a solid mid rotation starter in the NL West I don’t think he would ever be able to hack that role in the AL East.
As for Coke – I know that the Tigers are moving him to the rotation – probably with hopes that he becomes their version of CJ Wilson – is it possible, sure, but I’ll have to see it to believe it.
First let me say that I am very happy the Nationals signed Werth. That keeps him from RSox and also raises the ante for Crawford (probably at Angels or RSox). I think the RSox are getting AGone very cheaply.
As long as the Yanks have Andy coming back & they sign Cliff Lee, I will be happy!
Chip,
Would you trade Swisher for Ryan Madson?
How about to the A’s for their closer Andrew Bailey? A’s would probably want more but Swish gives them a big bat for 2 years plus 2 draft picks.
blake December 6th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Yea I guess they could do that but Willingham himself is almost to free agency…
would they work out an extension with him or trade those players to rent him for a year.
——————————–
For what it’s worth I don’t think Boston needs Willingham. If Ellsbury is healthy an OF of him, Cameron and Drew should be fine this year. What they need to do is get themselves an everyday catcher.
If they’re going to trade for someone I would think they could put together another mega package (Ellsbury, Bard, and a prospect) for Atlanta’s Brian McCann if the Braves are willing to move him. Or put together a smaller package for Chris Snyder of the Pirates.
Where’s Mell? I wanna tell him I hate “buzz” again..
Bret The Hitman December 6th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Chip,
Would you trade Swisher for Ryan Madson?
How about to the A’s for their closer Andrew Bailey? A’s would probably want more but Swish gives them a big bat for 2 years plus 2 draft picks.
——————————–
A’s would say no to Bailey.
But not only would I trade Swisher for Madson; I suggested it on Friday.
Sign Crawford and then deal Swisher for Madson and move Granderson to RF, Gardner to CF and play Crawford in LF…not only do you improve your pen but opposing hitters would have a tough time finding a gap in the OF to hit the ball to.
I’m not necessarily “worried” that Boston got Gonzalez but to pretend that he doesn’t help their team is absurd. He is one of the 10 best players in MLB.
Braves aren’t trading Mcann unless they are totally overwhelmed in a way that they just couldn’t say no.
I hear you Shame. Please note that I’m neither the bee nor the reporters hearing it.
I thought about Crede last season actually. Since he only plays 3B, its probably cheaper and wiser to go with Nunez and/or Pena, both of whom can play 3B, SS, and 2B.
More versatility.
Less money.
Chip,
No kidding?
I missed that post.
I suggested Swisher for Madson yesterday. He’s the best setup guy in baseball.
But I was thinking of moving Swish to sure up the pen and make room for Justin Upton. I don’t see Granderson in RF at all. It’s a waste of his OF coverage and value in CF. I see Gardner on the bench until he’s healthy and some team offers a fair trade to make him their leadoff CF.
SI_JonHeyman All things being equal, chien ming wang would go back to #nationals if possible.#comebackpitchers
RayVT December 6th, 2010 at 10:43 am
First let me say that I am very happy the Nationals signed Werth. That keeps him from RSox and also raises the ante for Crawford (probably at Angels or RSox). I think the RSox are getting AGone very cheaply.
As long as the Yanks have Andy coming back & they sign Cliff Lee, I will be happy!
—————————-
It’s actually not that cheap for Boston – The Sox are essentially doing what the Yankees refused to do for Johan Santana – they’re trading a couple of top prospects for a guy they are then going to have to commit a ton of money to.
Complete joke that Gillick is in the HOF before Steinbrenner and Miller. In fact, I’d say it’s a travesty.
Braves aren’t trading Mcann unless they are totally overwhelmed in a way that they just couldn’t say no
–
It would be pretty ridiculous for them to trade McCann considering he’s the third best catcher in all of MLB.
Last time I recommended moving Granderson to RF, I heard lots of chatter about how he couldn’t play RF, didn’t have the arm.
Personally, I don’t see how he would be any less capable than Swisher, and he’d get to more plays regardless.
Complete joke that Gillick is in the HOF before Steinbrenner and Miller. In fact, I’d say it’s a travesty.
—
The HoF is already a joke. I’ve stopped caring who gets in and who doesn’t.
Bret The Hitman December 6th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Chip,
No kidding?
I missed that post.
I suggested Swisher for Madson yesterday. He’s the best setup guy in baseball.
But I was thinking of moving Swish to sure up the pen and make room for Justin Upton. I don’t see Granderson in RF at all. It’s a waste of his OF coverage and value in CF. I see Gardner on the bench until he’s healthy and some team offers a fair trade to make him their leadoff CF.
—————————————-
A couple of questions:
1. Who are you trading for Upton
2. If Gardner’s on the bench who is in LF
Patrick -
Mauer is 1; McCann is 3, who is #2?
HI all –
Nothing against Pat Gillick, he seems to be a terrific baseball man, but how does he get voted in HOF before George and Marvin Miller? What is the logic behind that? Are some people that blinded by emotion?
Oh I know Mell, I just had a funny feeling about that from the moment I heard it!
My first time back at the blog in a while! How’s everybody (GB7, SJ, randy, Pat, Patrick, et al) doing??
DaSaint -
I view Crede more as a guy who would take the spot held by Thames last year than as a utility type of player.
As for moving Granderson to RF – I think it could be done so long as he had all of spring training to make the adjustment.
KenDavidoff Johnny Bench said of George Steinbrenner, “he will be” in the HOF eventually. Thought there was a “too soon” vibe.
Patrick -
Mauer is 1; McCann is 3, who is #2?
—
Buster Posey.
Carlos Santana enters the conversation if he hadn’t gotten hurt.
Joe from Long Island December 6th, 2010 at 10:53 am
HI all –
Nothing against Pat Gillick, he seems to be a terrific baseball man, but how does he get voted in HOF before George and Marvin Miller? What is the logic behind that? Are some people that blinded by emotion?
—————————–
My guess is that the owners on the voting committee hated Miller and George because of their roles in FA and thus rising cost of players.
Patrick -
Fair enough – I have to see a little more of Posey but it does illustrate just how thin the league is as a whole behind the plate.
“Thought there was a “too soon” vibe.”
Translation: He just died and no one wanted to cave to the sympathy vote?
Please tell me I’m wrong…
1. Who are you trading for Upton
2. If Gardner’s on the bench who is in LF
*********
1. Joba + Betances + Brackman + Laird/Nova
2. Carl Crawford
This goes back to our conversation a few weeks ago. I think the Yankees will sign Lee and Crawford (and Pettitte) and trade Swisher.
My only question marks remember were RF and setup guy.
Upton and Madson are my answers.
Chip December 6th, 2010 at 10:50 am
I thought the prospects named were weak! Of course K Law said #10 prospect in all of baseball Casey Kelly was included even though he struggled a bit in 2010. It is a joke IMO.
JackCurryYES Jeff Idelson, Hall of Fame prez, said final vote totals wouldn’t be revealed. Hall doesn’t want to embarrass anyone who got low vote total.
If the owners hated GMS because of the Free Agency, they’d better get their heads out of each other’s dark crevices. Steinbrenner is one of the few that was against it, but not as much as he was against arbitration. He said that would do more damage than Free Agency.
Looks like Mark Reynolds is headed to the O’s.
Ivan Nova and Joba Chamberlain to the Brewers for Lorenzo Cain and Manny Parra?
—
Lorenzo Cain is kind of a blue chip prospect, he should fetch a real starting pitcher not a maybe, and a definitely not.
# Erin December 6th, 2010 at 10:55 am
KenDavidoff Johnny Bench said of George Steinbrenner, “he will be” in the HOF eventually. Thought there was a “too soon” vibe.
———–
That’s just another reason why the whole process is stupid.
Either you’re a Hall of Famer or you’re not. It’s not like The Boss is going to be adding to his resume in the next 10 years – therefore, making a stronger case for himself.
The sad part is a guy like Ron Santo will probably get in there within the next couple of years now that he’s gone and never got to enjoy it in life.
The “too soon” argument is moronic.
Erin, that’s a stupid reason for not releasing totals. They have no problems with “embarrassing” the players with low vote totals.
RAY VT
Fair enough but I don’t believe there were enough owners on the panel to keep Miller out.
Hard to believe a former player or media member didn’t think Miller impacted the game as much as Pat Gillick?
blake December 6th, 2010 at 11:00 am
Looks like Mark Reynolds is headed to the O’s.
————————–
Provided they’re not giving up Tillman or Matuz in the deal I can’t argue with picking up Reynolds.
Astros are shopping Lindstrom – I know he had an off year last year but he’s a guy I would have interest in for the pen.
Ken_Rosenthal
Source: #Orioles “getting there” on Reynolds. RHP David Hernandez expected to be part of deal. #Diamondbacks #MLB
8 minutes ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
JackCurryYES The Hall Vet Committee voters weren’t told how many votes each candidate got and were asked not to discuss how they voted
Jerkface December 6th, 2010 at 11:01 am
Ivan Nova and Joba Chamberlain to the Brewers for Lorenzo Cain and Manny Parra?
—
Lorenzo Cain is kind of a blue chip prospect, he should fetch a real starting pitcher not a maybe, and a definitely not.
———————-
Fair enough
Fair enough – I have to see a little more of Posey but it does illustrate just how thin the league is as a whole behind the plate.
—
I think Posey has shown enough to put him up there but yeah that was my point. You don’t trade away a guy like McCann — an established catcher — when there are so few that do what he can.
Actually never mind on Lindstrom – he’s not been “off” so much as he’s been flat out bad the last two years.
The Sox have the chips for Willingham. McCann no.
They’re done with major trade acquisitions.
Besides, the Braves are an offense starved contender.
Sad to hear of Don Meredith’s passing.
Does trading Reynolds make it more or less likely that they would deal Upton or have no effect?
Gammons on MLB bubbling over about Gonzalez and his usual Boston gibberish about the farm system.
I guess Lars Anderson was the 2nd coming at 1st base after all
Surprised that the Padres didn’t want to include some of these cheap major league tested young players in that deal:
Nava
Kalish
Lowrie
McDonald
Duobront
Red Sox still have these players they can shop for needs.
As long as that voting committee has 5 owners and team executives on it. Marvin Miller’s chances of getting are as slim as Don Mattingly’s.
Patrick December 6th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Fair enough – I have to see a little more of Posey but it does illustrate just how thin the league is as a whole behind the plate.
—
I think Posey has shown enough to put him up there but yeah that was my point. You don’t trade away a guy like McCann — an established catcher — when there are so few that do what he can.
—————
Agree to a point.
My theory as a FanGM is that everyone is available for the right price.
If the Red Sox are willing to blow me away with an offer for McCann – make me stronger at two or three spots – then I’ll take the hit at catcher to fill those other holes.
For example – and this is an extreme version of the point so don’t get hung up on the names – if the Royals were willing to deal Greinke, Bill Butler and Soria to the Yankees for Cano and two low level prospects – much as I like Cano and as great a player as he’s becoming, I would have to do that deal and take the hit at 2b.
Gonzalez- Grew up as Sox favorite AL team. “very happy to be in Boston and looking forward to beating the Yanks.”
Gonzalez- Grew up as Sox favorite AL team. “very happy to be in Boston and looking forward to beating the Yanks.”
–
What a chump, get ready to be beasted upon by CC Sabathia
blake December 6th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Does trading Reynolds make it more or less likely that they would deal Upton or have no effect?
———————-
I would say no impact.
Towers is very pragmatic – if trading Upton makes the D’Backs better then he’ll do it.
One thing Towers was very upfront about was wanting to cut down on the “wasted outs” that the Diamondbacks were giving up (as in strikeouts). Certainly trading Reynolds goes a long way towards accomplishing that.
That said, they’ve now lost two middle of the order bats (LaRoche too) so it will be interesting to see how they replace those bats – my guess is that they make a major push for Konerko and possibly Beltre.
Chip December 6th, 2010 at 11:12 am
much as I like Cano and as great a player as he?s becoming, I would have to do that deal and take the hit at 2b.
*******************************
What do the Red Sox have that would blow you away for McCann? Bucholz and Bard? I certainly wouldn’t trade McCann for that.
If I’m trading McCann I’d want Youkilis and Bard or something like that.
pat December 6th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Gonzalez- Grew up as Sox favorite AL team. ?very happy to be in Boston and looking forward to beating the Yanks.?
********************************
This guy is annoying already.
Wait what Chip? You’d trade Cano for Greinke, Soria and Butler? Where do you put Butler?
THere’s no way I’d do that deal…
GB -
How are you doing old friend? Been a while since I’ve been around here…
“Does trading Reynolds make it more or less likely that they would deal Upton or have no effect?”
Less, I would think. Still a very team friendly contract at less than $10M AAV for the next 5 years. Unless they are totally blown away with a Montero, Banuelos, plus-type deal, it seems unlikely he gets moved this offseason.
This guy is annoying already.
—————
Seconded.
Gonzalez will be hated in New York if he isn’t already. Unfortunately for the Yankees, he is that good.
I don’t think they are done. Boston certainly has other players with value that they could move in a deal if they were so inclined. Papelbon, Ellsbury, Kalish, Lowrie, Bard, etc.
Patrick December 6th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Wait what Chip? You’d trade Cano for Greinke, Soria and Butler? Where do you put Butler?
THere’s no way I’d do that deal…
———————————-
You’re right – bad example with Butler.
So say the Rockies offered CarGo, Ubaldo, Ian Stewart and Huston Street for Cano
Have never understood the “too soon to elect someone to the hall of fame” Either they are hall of famers after 5 years of retirement or they are not….
Morning, Rodg. Hope all is well up in I-O-Way. I assumed that you warmed your hands before milking those cows.
Yeah, haven’t seen you around. I guess the snow hasn’t shut you out of civilization. Been working hard, i’d imagine. How was your Thanksgiving? And Christmas is on the way. Get them cookies and milk ready
As for Adrian –
Ignore him…won’t be too long before he’s getting brushed back by Cliff Lee at Yankee Stadium.
Patrick December 6th, 2010 at 11:15 am
What do the Red Sox have that would blow you away for McCann? Bucholz and Bard? I certainly wouldn’t trade McCann for that.
If I’m trading McCann I’d want Youkilis and Bard or something like that.
——————————
If I could get Ellsbury, Bucholtz, Bard and a prospect for McCann I would drive him to Boston myself.
blake December 6th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Does trading Reynolds make it more or less likely that they would deal Upton or have no effect?
*********
No effect…but Brandon Laird definitely represents an attractive piece of a package for Upton. He can play 3b or 1b. The D-backs have vacancies there.
Things are good here, GB. Work has been hectic finishing up a project, but it’s done now. Thanksgiving was very good. Got together with the family and ate some great food. How was yours?
ADam December 6th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Have never understood the “too soon to elect someone to the hall of fame” Either they are hall of famers after 5 years of retirement or they are not….
——————————–
I tend to agree –
When a guy has been on the ballot three times before getting elected the question I always ask is “what did the guy do 7 years after retiring to improve his case?”
You’re either a Hall of Famer or you’re not – I’m tired of writers using the ballot to turn themselves into the story “we’re going to keep out steroid users” or “we’re going to keep out this guy for a year because he was mean to us”
It’s a bunch of guys who were the last ones picked for every sport they played trying to act tough.
Gonzales was a great move for the Sox. He could be the best player on the team.
They are still not as good as the Yankees if the Yankees sign Lee or bring back Andy.
Yes, I said Lee or Andy.
I could see the Yankee only signing Lee or bring back Andy, not both.
Lee at 23mil and Andy at 12mil is a lot of $$$$.
I could see the Yankees signing Lee and then try to be cheap with Andy like the year they signed CC and AJ. If they do that again Andy won’t come back.
Maybe they could do a 1/2 year deal for Andy like is buddy Roger??
If sportswriters who are mean to athletes were picked last for their sportsteam, does that mean internet posters who are mean to writers were never picked at all?
I think the Dbacks would still trade Upton but as Mell said, its going to take a package that clearly makes them better at several spots. Trading Reynolds and Upton would be a lot of wheeling and dealing for a GM in their first season with the team. However, if they don’t really expect to.contend during most of Upton’s contest then they may be willing to shift into.full rebuild mode and obtain pieces for the future….we shall see.
Look for Varitek to come roaring out of the Boston dugout with his mask on as soon as C.C. throws a high brushback pitch with gas to Gonzalez.
rodg, Thanksgiving was just another day around here, other than making it another day closer to Opening Day. Other than that, it’s been a downer for the last 2 weeks. Things will get better, though. Glad to hear that you had a great family get together. Family is the most important part of living.
From Frank Russo at NYBaseballDigest.com who always seems to have reliable sources:
This entry was posted on December 6th, 2010 @ 11:28 am by Frank Russo.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
We checked in with our Tampa sources about Cliff Lee and his desire to return to Texas.
If the Rangers offer a sixth year- which reportedly would get a deal done – the Yankees will go with a seventh year. Would it surprise anyone if Lee came close to becoming the first $200 million dollar pitcher? Especially with the contracts that have been thrown around. I continue to say the Yankees will go all out to get this done. Also, there is no indication that Anaheim is a suitor for Lee.
The Yankees continue to talk to Arizona about Justin Upton. Ironically, his brother B.J. is also readily available on Tampa.
Many teams are trying to see if Dellin Betances could be pried away from the Yankees. Forget it, we were told as this kid is a stud and not going anywhere. Don’t forget that Brian Cashman called him the “best pitching prospect ever” this past season.
jerkface
It could mean that Internet posters were the former athletes that got picked before the journalists and still know the game better than they do.
It could mean that Internet posters were the former athletes that got picked before the journalists and still know the game better than they do
–
But then why wouldn’t writers also be former athletes?
K Towers on the move again, creating a vacancy at 3B. Reynolds for David Hernandez (cheap, fairly effective righty pen arm with good SO #s. Did I say cheap?)
Let’s see….Miranda is at 1B. former Yankee.
Kennedy is in the rotation. Former Yankee (predates Towers, granted).
If Towers is getting rid of high-priced albeit unproductive players, he’s not about to pay big dollars for Beltre.
Laird anyone?
Jed on MLB Network spewing a bunch of BS. Says they are not giving up on the 2011 season. Not only did they give up on it but many seasons to come after that.
Suprised he isn’t wearing a BoSux hat and Ortiz Jersey at this presser. What a clown!
jaysonst Padres GM Jed Hoyer on trading Gonzalez: ” talked to 7 or 8 teams… 3 teams heavily involved… got pkg we thought worthy… Pulled trigger
blake,
I think with Towers pedigree, ownership would defer to him if he thought that rebuilding mode was appropriate. I see him doing just that, creating a young, cost-controlled team with upside, much like the Rays.
Yes, I see a major move coming. This could just be the start.
blake December 6th, 2010 at 11:31 am
I think the Dbacks would still trade Upton but as Mell said, its going to take a package that clearly makes them better at several spots. Trading Reynolds and Upton would be a lot of wheeling and dealing for a GM in their first season with the team. However, if they don’t really expect to.contend during most of Upton’s contest then they may be willing to shift into.full rebuild mode and obtain pieces for the future….we shall see.
———————————-
That’s the beauty of being a new GM and having no prior ties to the organization – you aren’t the guy who scouted these players, drafted these players or cultivated them through the minors.
If you see a flawed guy – you move him.
Frankly I’m shocked that Sandy Alderson hasn’t taken this approach more with some of the Mess he inherited – specifically Jose Reyes.
Wow.. I wonder what those other 2 teams were offering that was worse than the Red Sox package.
“But then why wouldn?t writers also be former athletes?”
Some are (Glanville, Klapisch, Ensberg) but the volume of those who weren’t drown them out.
Chip,
Don’t be surprised if Reyes is moved.
But back to Zona:
Does Laird have a shot at making the Yankees? If not, then he’s tradable if it means you get Upton.
Can Joba bounce back? Possibly, but he’s tradable nonetheless.
Is Swisher tradable? Sure, thanks to that $1M buyout for 2012.
lol @ the Boss getting stiffed, even after passing. Anti-Yankee bias knows no bounds.
Marvin Miller: “Many years ago those who control the Hall decided to rewrite history instead of recording it.”
Miller “It is an amusing anomaly that the Hall of Fame has made me famous by keeping me out.?
I’m not going to kill Hoyer for what he got back.
We all knew that Gonzo wasn’t sticking around after this year and as the Phillies just found out you can’t always count on getting a first round pick back for a player.
Kelly will probably move through the system pretty quickly – the question of course being whether SD keeps him on the mound or moves him back to SS.
They got a first baseman who may be their 1b for the next 6 years (though I could also see them moving Headley to 1b) and a nice young OF – something they very much need.
I think they understand that last year’s success was a bit fluky given their team and they are committed to building for the long term rather than short term.
Now if they go out and deal Heath Bell and Ryan Ludwick in the next couple of weeks for chum, I will reserve the right to reverse my position, but for now I have no issue with Hoyer.
Plus, the thing to remember is that Hoyer knows the Red Sox system very well – just because some of these guys haven’t been overhyped by Boston doesn’t mean that they’re not top prospects.
As an example – the Yankees had two guys coming up at the same time, Navarro and Cano – all the hype was around Navarro but it turned out that Cano was the far better player.
I see Frankie Piliere says these guys are the best RSox have to offer in MiLB.
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/1.....brett-law/
Jed Hoyer: what a liar. 3 teams were heavily interested, but only 1 was heavily involved. He only considered accepting one package the whole time, and that was of his past and future employer.
Some shmigeggo said last night that Kelly was a fair headliner for Gonzalez. Wrong on so many levels. Jesus Montero was demanded for 2 months of Lee. Wang and Cano – 2 major leaguers – were demanded for Jason Michaels. A proven AAA player that started for the Tigers all year in CF, was the headliner for Curtis Granderson.
Under no circumstance was Casey Kelly an acceptable headliner for one full year of a superstar. You need major league ready talent in return for a superstar of that stature. Anybody that knows baseball, knows that.
just curious Jerkface, how did you fare in the brownie bets?
Has anyone heard anything on the Kerry Wood front? I would really like to see him back in pinstripes. Instead of trading for a set up guy and giving up some young talent, how about 3 years 18 mil. Also gives the Yanks some time to maybe fix Joba.
DaSaint007 December 6th, 2010 at 11:48 am
Chip,
Don’t be surprised if Reyes is moved.
But back to Zona:
Does Laird have a shot at making the Yankees? If not, then he’s tradable if it means you get Upton.
Can Joba bounce back? Possibly, but he’s tradable nonetheless.
Is Swisher tradable? Sure, thanks to that $1M buyout for 2012.
————————–
Laird to me has to prove a few things:
1. That he can be productive coming off the bench
2. That he can play RF.
If he can do those two things then yeah he has a shot because for the short term I could see him in a Ben Zobrist role where he plays a lot of different spots but has no set position yet still gets around 400 at bats; in the longer view, if the bat continues and he can play RF then he replaces Swisher after this season.
“Now if they go out and deal Heath Bell and Ryan Ludwick in the next couple of weeks for chum”
He just said Bell’s his closer to start the year. Market’s too flush with bullpenners right now to get optimum value. Could move him in mid season and score bigger.
Lots of inquiries on Betances…nice…
Banuelos is the one I most want to keep.
I’m hellbent against trading Manny.
Hopefully Jon Miller and Joe Buck get on the HOF voting list someday….NOT
8 years 161 million for AG. That’s certainly “werth” it.
“But then why wouldn?t writers also be former athletes?”
Some are (Glanville, Klapisch, Ensberg) but the volume of those who weren’t drown them out.
–
Right so, so the evidence of at the very least writers who played baseball professionally should rule out the insult that writers were some how pushed around. If you want me to believe that internet posters could be athletes(not likely lol!!) then I think you’d ought believe a writer is or was.
Its just the lamest put down ever.
Upstate kate: I won both but I doubt I’ll collect.
Chip – Your flaw is that Hoyer could have gotten another full season of some fans at their games for their hometown hero, a chance at competing, and could have gotten 2 draft picks that are as far along or even farther along than the 3 bags of balls that they got right now.
So the O’s are out of the Beltre market now??
PeteAbe Hoyer: “(Gonzalez) is going to be a monster at Fenway Park.”
___
Glad to see he gives his endorsement. The second line of that should be,
“while we made out with an overhyped centerpiece who flopped in AA”. Wins for both sides.
If one side is the red sox and the other is the 4 NL east teams not names Padres.
The only issue I would have with Hoyer is that two of the players involved, Rizzo and Fuentes, are both low level minor leaguers. They may have tremendous ceilings but I’m often wary of players that are that far from being major league contributors (hence why I had no problem dealing Vizciano last year and wouldn’t flinch at dealing Gary Sanchez this year in the right deal)
Rumor has it that Mr. Rapeller wants Nick Johnson back and was ticked Javvy went to the Marlins
I don’t know that one can be against trading any prospects generically, including the B’s. It depends on what the return is doesn’t it? And how many times does a prospect just not pan out or sustain a serious injury.
Jed Hoyer admitting that he basically had a crush on Kelly and turned down better deals due to his infatuation.
Thats a fast track out of the GM role.
“The only issue I would have with Hoyer is that two of the players involved, Rizzo and Fuentes, are both low level minor leaguers”
Rizzo played in AA ball most of 2010.
I would trade Betances for Upton.
I wonder if Kevin Towers has a crush on any of our minor leaguers not named Jesus Montero and would be willing to deal Justin Upton to us for the recipient of his crush… NOT
The real issue with Rizzo is his troubling contact rate.
Looks like Kelly has been downgraded top of the rotation ace to number 2 starter since being traded.
Looks like Kelly has been downgraded top of the rotation ace to number 2 starter since being traded.
–
The Red Sox effect
start_wearing_pink December 6th, 2010 at 11:57 am
Chip – Your flaw is that Hoyer could have gotten another full season of some fans at their games for their hometown hero, a chance at competing, and could have gotten 2 draft picks that are as far along or even farther along than the 3 bags of balls that they got right now.
—————————-
On the draft picks – you don’t know that for sure. Philly is getting a second round pick for Jayson Werth because the team that signed him has their first round pick protected. Milwaukee got a second round pick for CC Sabathia because the Yankees signed Tex.
As for Adrian as a drawing card in San Diego – meh – I don’t know what impact he really had. The team was exciting last year and they drew just north of 2 mil; the team stunk the year before and they were just under 2 mil…I think they’ll probably be right around there again this year.
Remember, the winter isn’t over yet – now that they’ve cleared Adrian maybe they throw themselves into the Carl Crawford mix; maybe they try to swing a deal for Greinke…let’s see how it pans out.
coney1 December 6th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Many teams are trying to see if Dellin Betances could be pried away from the Yankees. Forget it, we were told as this kid is a stud and not going anywhere. Don’t forget that Brian Cashman called him the “best pitching prospect ever” this past season.
***
I emphatically agree. I saw Betances three times this year and he is the Killer B who I wouldn’t trade in an Upton package. His stuff is electric and his mechanics were so sound. (finally).
Laird’s position also makes him valuable. I would keep him.
My package for Upton would be Romine, Swisher, Joba OR Brackman (gulp), and Gardner. Then I would also sign Crawford.
Heyman saying 8/161 for Gonzalez….twitter.
The contract Werth got, and that Crawford is going to get, shows how much a cost-controlled player like Upton is worth.
I’d be willing to trade almost anything tradeable (other than Cano) to get him. That includes any of the three outfielders, Hughes (unless the Yanks can’t get Lee), Joba, or any combination of the minor leaguers other than Montero.
@Chip He as a Mexican, a hometown hero, in a largely Mexican community. Let’s see how their fans turn out this season.
There’s nothing to wait for, they gave away their most valuable asset, a superstar in the prime of his career, for nothing. A former employee of the Red Sox and a future employee of the Red Sox, Hoyer did what he took the job with the Padres to do, gift Gonzo to the Red Sox. I expected this from the beginning, but didnt know it would take this long.
Brian Cashman now in full stealth mode. Only Hal Steinbrenner and Jean Afterman knows exactly what his plan is.
Soon you will here that RSox were concerned over having Lester & Bucholtz as #1 & #2 SP that Casey Kelly would have been #3 at best so they could afford to trade him to SD.
Nice Red Tie. You Dork Gonzalez BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Wave,
I agree….wouldn’t trade Hughes or Montero and wouldn’t want to trade Banuelos, but anybody else would be fair game for Upton. He could pair with Cano in the middle of the order for years.
Jon Heyman tweet
Would ya look at this?
Looks like Carlo and I were right:
# one impetus for #redsox waiting to finalize $160 mil or so extension with gonzalez: it would affect their tax. about 3 hours ago via web
blake December 6th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
I would trade Betances for Upton.
————————-
If that’s all it took I would drive him to the airport myself.
Maybe Betances and Romine for Upton.
Deal Swisher for Madson or another very good relief pitcher to augment the pen.
1st, 3rd and 6th prospects in Red Sox organization was not a bad haul. It was probably the best Hoyer could get.
Chip,
It would take more than that but id put him.in the package if need be. I would hate it but I would.
@WCYF Major League Talent. Major League Talent. Major League Talent is what is demanded for a full season of a superstar. Perhaps Bard.
Hi All,
I am probably late with this as it was tweeted 15 hours ago, but in any case:
Source: Lee has told former Rangers teammates a sixth year would bring him back to Texas.
via Tim Brown
I don’t think we’re getting Cliff Lee. I hope I am wrong.
1st, 3rd and 6th prospects in Red Sox organization was not a bad haul. It was probably the best Hoyer could get.
__
Should have been asking for Buchholz. Especially with the extension. They didn’t bring back one major leaguer for a superstar?
If Boy Genuis gets AGon for Kelly, Rizzo, and Fuentes and then gets him to agree to only a 7/154 extension MLB needs to investigate if Theo is secretly a hypnotist.
Hoyer is.going to be on mlbradio in a few minutes…..maybe we will hear what he was thinking.
Red Sox pale in comparison when doing a press conference of this kind in acquiring a new player to the Yankees
This buzz around Brackman and Betances closely resembles the PR used to raise the profile of Ian Kennedy last year at the Winter Meetings. Cashman was pimping him as early as the Winter Meetings.
If I’m AZ I want both Banuelos and Betances.
If I’m the Yankees I try to steer AZ towards Betances.
I’m relieved their not hyping the lefty Banuelos. His injury history is also clean. I like him much better than the others since lefties are such a rare commodity and YS is suited for lefty pitchers. Banuelos is the youngest and furthest along in development for his age among the 3. He’s the keeper.
You get the feeling as if the Yankees just have too many tradeable commodities for Cash to not make a big move this week, but it is hard to figure what it will be.
edit: Cashman was pimping Ian Kennedy as early as the GM meetings.
Mike in Chicago December 6th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
Hi All,
I am probably late with this as it was tweeted 15 hours ago, but in any case:
Source: Lee has told former Rangers teammates a sixth year would bring him back to Texas.
via Tim Brown
I don’t think we’re getting Cliff Lee. I hope I am wrong.
___
Yeah i dont think you should read much into that. No one confirmed he actually said that and even if he did, so what? He is trying to get a 6th year. If we dont get Lee it won’t be because he just wanted 6 from texas.
1st, 3rd and 6th prospects in Red Sox organization was not a bad haul. It was probably the best Hoyer could get.
–
He said he had numerous offers with major league players, and that getting Kelly made him take the red sox deal. Also claimed that the biggest worry with trades is ‘knowing the prospects’ but that he did the deal because he was familiar with all the players he got.
It reeks of infatuation with Boston. And using prospect lists as some kind of measure of a trade is stupid, not all lists are created equally. A prospect list for the royals, rangers, and rays is going to be much heavier than the red sox or yankees.
A player who was top 10 on the orioles or some team got traded to the royals last season and was not even in the top 20.
You measure these trades on current ability, potential, and likelihood to reach the majors. The fact that Hoyer traded for 3 lottery tickets really shows how blinded he was by his hand in drafting those players.
Pretending the Sox didn’t get significantly better with the trade for Gonzalez is short sighted. They’re a lot better.
He’s a better 1b right now that Texeria is. Texeira has turned into Giambi with the low batting average, pull happy ways he’s showed. I don’t know where the player who was hitting .300 or better is anymore. His offensive approach is bad and if it’s not corrected we’re going to have a .250 power hitting 1b which isn’t bad, but is not worth 23 million a year.
Gonzalez hits to all fields with power along with having a great eye at the plate. He’s the best 1b in the AL East today in my opinion.
The Sox robbed the Padres for him. A trade like they made does nothing to stop the Boston bias feeling we all have in here. The Yankees had to trade several quality major league players to just get Granderson last year.
The Red Sox traded not one major league ready player for an perennial MVP candidate.
we already know what he was thinking. he made up his mind from day 1 to gift Gonzo to the Red Sox. i guess a unc education might not understand that.
and O’s get Reynolds. AL East is where the action is.
Hoyer says that Theo told him he could come.to the Red Sox Christmas party if he gave them a discount on the deal
What Hoyer was thinking is,, “Damned. I can’t wait until Luccino gets fed up with Epstein taking credit for everything and fires him. I’ll get that job with a real team.”
The A.L. East is bananas.
Bring back the balanced schedule.
G Love,
Did Tex every hit .300 in a season? I believed he was a .280 – .290 hitter and he had a down year, but so did a lot of people. He also had a few nagging injuries late in the year. Not really worried about Tex.
Let’s let Gonzo play before we act like he is all of a sudden the greatest weapon known to man.
LGY December 6th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
You get the feeling as if the Yankees just have too many tradeable commodities for Cash to not make a big move this week, but it is hard to figure what it will be.
———————–
I really think it will be either Upton or Greinke.
start_wearing_pink December 6th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
@WCYF Major League Talent. Major League Talent. Major League Talent is what is demanded for a full season of a superstar. Perhaps Bard.
*************
Hoyer could ask all he wants, he was told no obviously. It takes two parties to make a deal. He had no choice. It would have been stupid to wait and take the chance that Adrian Gonzalez got hurt.
Our guys who all lost their batting averages better show up ready to play this year. If Arod, Tex, Jeter, Granderson all slump batting average wise again this team is in deep trouble.
Getting Lee is a priority. I would also think getting Wood back should be high on the list. I wish we had room somewhere for another more consistent bat on this roster but having to carry Jorge as DH blocks the acquisition of that kind of bat.
Maybe we trade someone from the OF for an upgrade? I don’t know. The same offense from last year won’t cut it though. The low batting averages and mega slumps need to end. Hopefully, Cano will be in the 3 spot and put an end to that.
The A.L. East is bananas.
Bring back the balanced schedule.
__
I agree. With the balanced schedule, Toronto and Baltimore actually have a chance to compete. And adding a 5th team to the playoffs opens it up for 3 AL East teams to make the playoffs.
Keep dreaming, guys. We’re not trading for anybody without giving up Montero. And we’re not giving up Montero. Thus, we’re not trading for a budding star like Upton or a proven star like Greinke.
I know a lot of Yankee fans want Kelly the be the next best thing so it makes the Sox look bad for trading him, but I hope Kelly, Rizzo, and Fuentes flop harder than Pete Abe off a diving board.
Maybe if that happens the Red Sox media hype machine will wake up to reality.
ac1,
Tex hit .301, .306 and .308 in 3 different seasons before coming to the Yankees.
@WCYF Per Jerkface, he was offered Major League Ready talent. He chose to christmas gift Gonzo to the Red Sox.
@LGY Keep dreaming. The media hype machine will never let up. Remember, Goss, Fossum, Lyon and de la Rosa. All for Schilling. Nobody woke up after that and nobody will wake up in the future either.
Tex hit .301, .306 and .308 in 3 different seasons before coming to the Yankees.
__
Ok i wasnt checking out the stats. But i will take what we got in 2009. I just think the Yankees were down all over last year except for Cano and Swisher.
Look for many bounceback seasons in 2011.
I’m just waiting for the Padres to trade Bell to Boston for Nava and Bowden next. The Padres should be contracted.
“It would have been stupid to wait and take the chance that Adrian Gonzalez got hurt”
Even if he stayed healthy. Hoyer expressed some concern about what he might be able to get at mid season, citing the Braves return on Teixeira (Kotchman and something else) as enough to scare him off of waiting.
Harold Reynolds: “This is a sad day”
Well said, Mr. Reynolds.
Real classy of INepstein to put a jersey on Gonzalez with no number on his back. Maybe he has to negotiate a deal with Mike Cameron to get the No. 23 he had in San Diego.
“If Boy Genuis gets AGon for Kelly, Rizzo, and Fuentes and then gets him to agree to only a 7/154 extension MLB needs to investigate if Theo is secretly a hypnotist.”
No doubt. Bad enough they gave up a subpar package to get him, but now he is taking a discount????
Tex’s approach does need to be fixed. Waaaaaaaaay too pull-conscience and has developed a bad upper-cut to boot. His swing is filled with holes and he has to be timed perfect to hit the ball with any authority. That’s why his average went in the tank.
ac1,
If Tex hit .290 consistently it’d be great. But he just hit .256 last season and looked like a guy who forgot how to hit other than pulling it into the shift. He’s all HR’s and walks. That’s Giambi. That wore thin here after awhile.
I’m down on Texeira because for the kind of money he cost he was supposed to be a cornerstone player. If he plays like he did last season he’ll be lucky to be batting 5th. That’s not a cornerstone player.
If Texeira doesn’t improve his hitting for average and learn to beat the shift, the Red Sox will end up thanking their lucky starts they missed on him and ended up with Gonzalez who is a more complete hitter. Tex is better with the glove though despite what they may say about Gonzalez’s defense.
In fairness it’s not like the Yankees haven’t gotten away with trading overhyped guys who never panned out for talented players:
Dioneer Navarro, Brad Halsey (and Javy Vazquez) for Randy Johnson
Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera and Randy Choate for Javy Vazquez
Eric Milton, Christian Guzman and another player who I can’t recall at the moment for Chuck Knoblauch
I think the only two impact players the Yankees have traded in the last 15 years are Austin Jackson and Mike Lowell.
“Harold Reynolds: “This is a sad day””
What was the context?
lol @ Hoyer’s quotes
He sounds thrilled that Gonzalez is in Boston. Talking about how painful it was (when he was there) that they lost out on Tex and how much he is going to rake in Fenway
He spent more time talking about how great Gonzalezis going to be for BOS than he did the package his Padres got back for them. I mean, we all know he got nothing back for his franchise player, but he shouldn’t make it so transparent lol… he said Kelly and Rizzo are “good character guys” hahaha
Bret The Hitman December 6th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
This buzz around Brackman and Betances closely resembles the PR used to raise the profile of Ian Kennedy last year at the Winter Meetings. Cashman was pimping him as early as the Winter Meetings.
If I’m AZ I want both Banuelos and Betances.
If I’m the Yankees I try to steer AZ towards Betances.
I’m relieved their not hyping the lefty Banuelos. His injury history is also clean. I like him much better than the others since lefties are such a rare commodity and YS is suited for lefty pitchers. Banuelos is the youngest and furthest along in development for his age among the 3. He’s the keeper.
__________________
I love Banuelos’ stuff and that he is a lefty. I don’t really want to trade him either. However, Betances is also really really special. You cannot compare him to IPK. His stuff is top of rotation stuff. His lately repeatable mechanics, command and his newfound changeup make him a keeper. Add in his size and endurance. He will be a beast. He is not being overrated. He just needs to repeat and command. He made AA batters look ridiculous.
Question:
Would you rather have Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte or Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford then trade an OF for a pitcher?
Context: The Red Sox didn’t have to touch their Major League talent or the core of their ballclub. Padres got guys that are years away from the bigs.
Interesting rating of teams in the draft.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....newsletter
How about Brackman, Romine, David Adams and Adam Warren for Upton…seems fair to me.
“Betances is also really really special. You cannot compare him to IPK. His stuff is top of rotation stuff. His lately repeatable mechanics, command and his newfound changeup make him a keeper. Add in his size and endurance. He will be a beast. He is not being overrated.”
I really hope AZ feels that way too.
cgrand14 is @realskipbayless ready for me on First and Ten on @espn_firsttake? http://twitpic.com/3di427
Would you rather have Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte or Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford then trade an OF for a pitcher?
–
Cliff lee and andy, unless crawford wants to take a discount
http://bleacherreport.com/arti.....newsletter
Boston solved one problem …… first base. The team is still weak up the middle except for Dustmite Pedoia, if his foot is indeed healed.
If Crawford is going to cost 140 million bucks then id rather have Pettite for one year.
If Crawford is going to cost 140 million bucks then id rather have Pettite for one year.
I agree that Cash has an agenda about whom he talks up. However, that gets negated a bit when dealing with AZ, as Kevin Towers spent a year with NY, and now has a pretty good idea about the minor leaguers.
I’d rather include Gardner than Swish in that speculated swap for Justin Upton. A starting LF (Gardner), ML capable pitcher (Joba; Nova), as Towers has already said he’s emphazing pitching; maybe another pitcher who’s on the cusp, list provided by Cash; and possibly C (Romine; Cervelli??). If it’s Cervelli, sign Martin as the emergency catching plan. For the number of bodies the Yanks might send, AZ sends another player along, Cash gets to pick from a list who he wants.
Murti on WFAN: There are reports that the Yankees don’t have room in their budget for Lee and Crawford or Pettitte.
I take this with a giant pile of salt – this is the same “budget” that didn’t have room for CC and another big player yet somehow find a way to add AJ and Tex and still bring back Andy.
“Would you rather have Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte or Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford then trade an OF for a pitcher”
Tough call. I don’t think any of the outfielders bring a pitcher better than Pettitte.
# Chip December 6th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
LGY December 6th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
You get the feeling as if the Yankees just have too many tradeable commodities for Cash to not make a big move this week, but it is hard to figure what it will be.
———————–
I really think it will be either Upton or Greinke.
——————————–
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the 3-way deals that’ve been proposed on LoHud are impossible. Its interesting to think about what would happen if the Yanks could get Greinke and flip him to the DBacks for Upton..
108 stitches December 6th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Boston solved one problem …… first base. The team is still weak up the middle except for Dustmite Pedoia, if his foot is indeed healed.
———————-
They are awful behind the plate – possibly the worst catching situation in the majors right now given that they have a washed up Varitek and a complete bust in Saltalamaccia
yankeefeminista December 6th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Bret The Hitman December 6th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
This buzz around Brackman and Betances closely resembles the PR used to raise the profile of Ian Kennedy last year at the Winter Meetings. Cashman was pimping him as early as the Winter Meetings.
If I’m AZ I want both Banuelos and Betances.
If I’m the Yankees I try to steer AZ towards Betances.
I’m relieved their not hyping the lefty Banuelos. His injury history is also clean. I like him much better than the others since lefties are such a rare commodity and YS is suited for lefty pitchers. Banuelos is the youngest and furthest along in development for his age among the 3. He’s the keeper.
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I love Banuelos’ stuff and that he is a lefty. I don’t really want to trade him either. However, Betances is also really really special. You cannot compare him to IPK. His stuff is top of rotation stuff. His lately repeatable mechanics, command and his newfound changeup make him a keeper. Add in his size and endurance. He will be a beast. He is not being overrated. He just needs to repeat and command. He made AA batters look ridiculous.
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Agreed. I know Betances is far more talented than IPK. My thinking is that I’d steer a team towards Betances if I knew I had to deal at least one of Betances or Banuelos. So far, I’ve heard the Yankees pimping Betances and silence on Banuelos. That makes me relieved. I want to keep both but if I had to trade one and keep one, I’d keep Banuelos for the reasons stated above. I’d hate to lose Betances and Brackman too but I think Towers will require 2 of the killer B’s in addition to Joba/Nova and Laird.
“Murti on WFAN: There are reports that the Yankees don’t have room in their budget for Lee and Crawford or Pettitte. ”
Sounds like it could be the Yanks just using a mouthpiece to make other teams think they’re out of the Crawford thing. That is what they did with Tex after all.
G. Love,
It’s funny because when we looked at Tex’s stats when we first signed him, we were worried about how he was a “slow starter” in April and his lifetime BA in April was .259 before joining us, considerably below other months?
Now, he didn’t even hit .259 for the season lol. He’s been at or below .200 the last 2 Aprils. Even his May numbers this year are misleading… he had a good 10 day stretch (remember that 3 HR game vs. BOS?) but was useless for the rest of the month.
He is one of many who has to rebound next year. You expect Jeter, Posada, A-Rod, etc. to struggle because they are over 35. Tex was brought in here to combat the aging of those guys and be a cornerstone guy into the new era.
Mell December 6th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
“Would you rather have Cliff Lee and Andy Pettitte or Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford then trade an OF for a pitcher”
Tough call. I don’t think any of the outfielders bring a pitcher better than Pettitte.
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It is a tough call – in my opinion though Crawford not only helps this season but is a long term investment. Andy’s one and done.
I’ve said this before… Tex is like a bear…. only comes out when the weather gets warm, goes back into hibernation when the weather starts to cool….
Wave Your Hat December 6th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
“Betances is also really really special. You cannot compare him to IPK. His stuff is top of rotation stuff. His lately repeatable mechanics, command and his newfound changeup make him a keeper. Add in his size and endurance. He will be a beast. He is not being overrated.”
I really hope AZ feels that way too.
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I don’t. If Betances continues what he started last year, watch out!
See, I don’t think any of the three Killer B’s are overhyped b/c they are already at AA or higher and have such good stuff. It is more a question of whether we want to wait for them and develop them, which we have been loathe to do with our pitchers. Brackman is the one question mark as far as being an SP but he would be great out of the pen. Plus his mechanicals might be less repeatable. They could not make the leap, get hurt, etc. But they do have the stuff, and that is what makes the difference in rating them.
I would rather have Pettite and Lee and keep our current OF. Pettite is a proven NY performer, makes the rotation more LH and for 1/2 a season was an all star last year.
I’ll happily go to war with a rotation of CC, Lee, Pettitte, Hughes and AJ next year with Nova waiting in the wings.
Shame Spencer December 6th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
# Chip December 6th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
LGY December 6th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
You get the feeling as if the Yankees just have too many tradeable commodities for Cash to not make a big move this week, but it is hard to figure what it will be.
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I really think it will be either Upton or Greinke.
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The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the 3-way deals that’ve been proposed on LoHud are impossible. Its interesting to think about what would happen if the Yanks could get Greinke and flip him to the DBacks for Upton..
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Shame -
I can’t imagine the Yankees flipping Greinke away if they’re able to get him.
“It is a tough call – in my opinion though Crawford not only helps this season but is a long term investment. Andy’s one and done”
Crawford’s a lousy investment at the money being discussed. In fact, he’s a not much of an investment at Werth money.
“They are awful behind the plate – possibly the worst catching situation in the majors right now given that they have a washed up Varitek and a complete bust in Saltalamaccia”
Chip – do you think that Boston sticks with that tandem for the whole season, thought? I feel like the only person that’s pretty convinced the Sox have a different catcher by the All Star break.
Chip – I agree, I was just thinking in terms of possibly hanging onto a couple of pieces you’d rather not move (ie: Hughes) that Zona might want but the Royals don’t need. I personally don’t see Greinke going anywhere.
I know Tex didn’t have a great season with the bat, but we have to remember how banged up he was towards the end – wrist/hand, knee, foot. He even said, right after he tore his hamstring in the playoffs, that it was his body saying “enough”.
How about Brackman, Romine, David Adams and Adam Warren for Upton…seems fair to me.
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No way. Upton is worth far more than a bunch of B prospects
Id rather sign Pettite and then trade for Upton and pay him less than 10 million dollars until 2014.
Shame, I agree w/you on the Sox catching situation.
But who is the mystery catcher?
There are few real difference makers at catcher right now in the MLB.
Bret The Hitman December 6th, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Agreed. I know Betances is far more talented than IPK. My thinking is that I’d steer a team towards Betances if I knew I had to deal at least one of Betances or Banuelos. So far, I’ve heard the Yankees pimping Betances and silence on Banuelos. That makes me relieved. I want to keep both but if I had to trade one and keep one, I’d keep Banuelos for the reasons stated above. I’d hate to lose Betances and Brackman too but I think Towers will require 2 of the killer B’s in addition to Joba/Nova and Laird.
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I agree that we will likely lost one of the Killer B’s in the deal. I DO really like Banuelos and have been a big advocate after seeing him pitch, and watching his AFL start, but I am just blown away by Betances stuff. He pitched against Toronto’s really good hitting farm team in the playoffs and he was pretty untouchable. Again, I am saying this well knowing how good Manny B. is. Hard call. Maybe they would take Noesi and Warren instead?
I think we are going to see much bettre seasons this year from Jeter, Granderson, Tex and maybe even Posada. Hopefully Cano and Swish keep playing how they did. Hopefully Gardner takes another step, and Montero brings it.
Could be a much better year all around.
*lose*
Chip-
To add Lee and Crawford, Swisher would be traded for prospects. There’s no way if Lee is signed that they’re adding Crawford. Crawford less Swisher does not significantly improve their offense, plus in lieu of the Werth contract Crawford will be overpaid in terms of years and $$$$.
Pitching and more pitching is their primary focus.
Jeff Keppinger is being shopped and would be a nice super utility addition.
No on Feliciano who pitched in a whopping 92 games last year-who know how many others he was warming up in. He’s on the decline and is purely a situational reliever.
BX33,
As I said, I’m down on Tex. I’ve seen him at the plate enough to know that he’s one of those “mash it into the shift” types right now. Those guys become feast or famine hitters with no kind of consistency. He’ll either hit a single or a HR and nothing in between.
He should not be the 3 hitter next year, yet I know stubborn Girardi will ink his name in the 3 hole as well as Jeter in the 1 spot until they both prove they are inept in those roles.
Tex has a lot of work to do to live up to the contract and his expected role on this team. Based on what we saw last season, he’s a 5-6 hitter. Not a 3. There were countless innings that he killed.
If they want Cano to protect Arod so bad, then they need to make Arod the 3 hitter and Cano cleanup. Cano cannot and should not be a 5 hitter to appease Tex’s ego unless Tex shows up and has a better approach than “mash it into the shift”.
Hopefully, last year was just a bad year for him…although having him have a bad year in one of his prime years is troubling.
Patrick December 6th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
How about Brackman, Romine, David Adams and Adam Warren for Upton…seems fair to me.
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No way. Upton is worth far more than a bunch of B prospects
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I wouldn’t call them B prospects. Maybe Warren but not the others.
“But who is the mystery catcher?”
There’s the rub. There’s a whole lot of nothing available at that position.
He should not be the 3 hitter next year, yet I know stubborn Girardi will ink his name in the 3 hole as well as Jeter in the 1 spot until they both prove they are inept in those roles. .
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Girardi has said lineup is not in stone next season. I hope to see Cano in the 3.
“The contract Werth got, and that Crawford is going to get, shows how much a cost-controlled player like Upton is worth.”
Wave-
This is true. But it’s also globally true and it’s not going to lost on Towers. Prices in the free agent market are going to impact the cost of talent in trades.
The price for Werth is only going to increase the price in talent required to get Upton. The two “costs” are mutually independent.
If I’m Towers I’m looking at what Werth got and sitting tight thinking to myself that the outrageous prices I’ve asked for in return for Upton just became much more feasible.
I don’t see how this deal gets done from AZ perspective without Montero (plus a whole lot more). And trading Montero to get Upton may defeat part of the reason for trading for Upton in the first place.
I know you’d overpay with pitching but even then I’m not sure how AZ would value Hughes given his service time clocked. And even then I don’t think the Yankees would be willing to trade Hughes because of the hole it opens up in the rotation (even if they do sign Lee and Pettitte).
I’m not sure how a trade for Upton works without AZ getting a legitimate power hitting prospect in return.
Perhaps if Towers sees Swisher as being a useful piece if the yankees throw in money but even then given Swisher is only signed for a couple more years (and Werth’s deal is going to raise the price for resigning swisher) AZ would only have to turn around and trade Swisher (or granderson).
I’d love to see it. But the prices are only going up both in terms of money and talent. Not sure how feasible it is to get Upton.
I really think Jeter will be back to #2 next season. Gardner will be at the top as long as he walks, gets on base, and steals.
Shame -
I just don’t know where they would go to upgrade the catching situation.
Tex is great in the 3 hole if he gets back to being that .950 OPS player the Yankees signed and was in 2009.
I would think Sox like us and a number of teams will try to sign Martin and hope he can catch.
Joe from LI,
I’m hoping last season was just an off one for Tex. That said, he wasn’t injured in the first two months and was invisible in the 3 hole.
I do think Boston reloading will fire up the Yankees to be more into it next year. Not that I think they sleep walked, but with Girardi playing for the wild card and Boston not really nipping at our heels I feel the sense of urgency that used to be there was missing last season.
It was a year after winning a title so you expect some let down.
Next season there should be no let down. They have to be ready to fight. This division isn’t getting easier in my opinion. It’s only going to get harder, especially if Toronto gets Greinke. I also don’t think Baltimore is going to be the doormat they usually are.
SI_JonHeyman Seven teams in on bill hall, who had nice year in boston. Yankees have checked in
I would think Sox like us and a number of teams will try to sign Martin and hope he can catch.
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They already have two catchers.
TylerKepner Lee’s agent, Darek Braunecker, said he’s still coordinating mtg with Yanks. Also, understandably, was happy with Werth deal.
I love Tex but Cano is their best hitter and should hit 3rd…..its not a demotion for Teixera, he’s better suited to hit 5th.
“Tex is great in the 3 hole if he gets back to being that .950 OPS player the Yankees signed and was in 2009″
He actually was a .950 OPS player at the Stadium. .968, in fact. Problem was the .728 OPS guy he became on the road.
i still dont get why Werth’s deal should have any impact on Lee. No QUALITY team is going to 150 M for him. Most he will see from the Yankees may be 6/140-144. And no way Texas is touching that.
All this media certainty that Lee is going to the Yankees sure makes me nervous. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he chose to stay in Texas.
ac1 December 6th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
I would think Sox like us and a number of teams will try to sign Martin and hope he can catch.
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They already have two catchers.
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If you want to call them that.
Just a random proposal:
Angels get: Brett Gardner
D’Backs get: Juan Rivera, Andrew Brackman, Gary Sanchez
Yankees get: Justin Upton (Ariz) Scot Sheilds (LAA)
I think everyone believes Tex should start figuring out how to hit opposite field sometimes, but they are probably worried that trying to change his swing will do more harm than good.
The best thing that can happen for Tex is to come out strong in the first month. No more batting .150 in april and may.
TylerKepner Lee’s agent, Darek Braunecker, said he’s still coordinating mtg with Yanks. Also, understandably, was happy with Werth deal.
TylerKepner Braunecker: “To me that’s what Jayson Werth should be paid. He’s a better plyr than Matt Holliday, in my estimation.”
I could see Boston trying to make a deal for Mike Napoli of the Angels – don’t know what the cost would be. Napoli’s not very good defensively but he’s got plenty of bat
To be honest, I think the Yankees should consider shifting Alex down in the lineup instead of Tex.
Tex
Cano
Alex
Thoughts?
New Post: New bats in the East, Yankees quiet so far
Chip:
Towers hangs up 1st.
ac1-
Jeter in the 2 hole doesn’t allow Gardner the time to steal, as he often swings at the first pitch and was ineffective against righties last year, plus he’s been among league leaders in hitting into DP’s the last few years.
The FA market boosts trade value of both pitchers and position players. Werth’s contract boosts the value of Upton. True.
However, at the same time Lee’s massive (likely 7 year and possibly record breaking) contract will also boost the value of high end, blue chipper ML-ready and near ML ready pitching prospects that a GM like Towers can use to cheaply build a rotation.
Towers has publicly announced that he’s looking for pitching.
The Yankees have several arms of interest that he can use to build a staff.
We really match up in a deal for Upton.
Young pitching prospects are still the currency of baseball and we’ll be reminded of that when the Lee contract dwarfs the Werth one.
Werth is not a better player than Matt Holliday.
G.Love – yes, Tex was not injured the first two months, just an exacerbation of how he performs in the spring. The shift really has an effect on him. If he could spray the ball around more…..
Chip – why would we want Scott Shields? He had a pretty poor season didn’t he? And he’s not getting any younger. Otherwise, I’d use Romine instead of Sanchez (he is more developed, after all), and that would work for me. The only hole left opened would be losing Brackman, who had been thought of as possibly a mid-season call up.
The other CC does not make any sence unless you don’t sign Lee and deal Swisher. Too much $$, the Yanks have enough firepower.
Let’s hope they can just sign Lee and get another LH bullpen guy. The OF is just fine as is.
I’m telling you Andy should have made the call already if he wants to play. It would have helped the Yankees out with leverage on Lee and he would have gotten his 11-12mil. I can really see the Yanks not bringing Andy back if they have to pay Lee 6years 140mil.
The Yankees went to the ALCS with Posada and Cervelli. It doesn’t get much worse than that. I don’t think Boston’s season is riding on the catcher.
As for the others up the middle….Scutaro is the same as Jeter, Pedroia is close to Cano and Granderson hasn’t shown that he is any better than Boston’s options.
Why all the harping about Boston up the middle when Cano is the only proven stud that NY has?
If Texas will go 6/140 for Lee they can have him. No way the Yanks should go 7 years.
Bring back Andy and trade for a guy or let the kids have a chance. AJ will be better this year too.
No way I’d invest 140+ in Crawford either…