Winter Meetings begin in Orlando
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 06, 2010 
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One way or another, there will be some early Yankees news on this first day of the Winter Meetings.
At 10 a.m., the Veterans Committee is scheduled to announce its decisions for the 2011 Hall of Fame class. George Steinbrenner is among those on the ballot. If Steinbrenner is not elected this morning, he’ll be held out of consideration until the Expansion Era is up for election again in the winter of 2013.
The Veterans ballot includes several Yankees connections, but as always, The Boss steals the show.
The rest of the ballot: Vida Blue, Dave Concepcion, Steve Garvey, Ron Guidry, Tommy John, Al Oliver, Ted Simmons, Rusty Staub, Billy Martin, Pat Gillick and Marvin Miller.
I wish I was in Orlando. I about froze to death walking to my car this AM.
Repost from previous thread:
With the rediculously increasing FA contracts being bandied around, something tells me that trades this week will be fast and furious.
Soon, it will be either impossible for most teams to have more than 2 major stars on their team or young talent is going to get locked up long-term faster and in a more cost-controlled manner than previously.
Either way, it seems as if a FA bubble is being created, and we know that all bubbles are unsupportable long term.
Betsy
Go back to this or other blogs about two years ago and read the comments. AJ had a 4 year deal with Atlanta “all but sewn up” according to the “buzz.” Yankees came in and offered the 5th year, and the deal was done.
All of two good friends is two more than he has on Texas. Yes, Nolan Ryan is making his think about it. But all he has to do is look at Nolan Ryan’s career to see that playing on a constant contender (which Texas is not, despite the hype) makes a lot of difference.
Ok folks, I’m off to work. Catch ya’ll later.
How is adrian gonzalez > victor martinez and adrian beltre?
Cashman identified “pitching, pitching, pitching” as his priority for the winter meetings and said they were ready to start negotiating with Lee whenever he’s ready.
“It’s up to Cliff Lee, his wife, his family and their agent. We’re ready to be there and rock and roll whenever they say they are ready to talk,” he said. “I am ready to talk right now. I would have talked from the building if I had time.”
Get the Job done Cash!!
“How is adrian gonzalez > victor martinez and adrian beltre?”
You could argue that he isn’t, but him and a middle of the road #6 hitter, say a Josh Willingham, who the Nats are apparently looking to trade, would be.
Not saying Boston is getting Willingham (though they should definitely make a run), but the combo of Gonzalez and that type of player is better than Martinez/Beltre.
I basically don’t care about the HOF voting, but this will be an interesting vote to watch.
Erin says:
December 6, 2010 at 8:36 am
I wish I was in Orlando. I about froze to death walking to my car this AM.
——-
As a northerner you would probably like this weather we are having in FL compared to up there. As a floridian though I about froze walking to my car ?this morning too. Our blood is water down here, anything under 70 is freezing.
Morning folks – any word on if Boston worked out an extension with Gonzalez yet?
tyanksfan36 December 6th, 2010 at 8:47 am
As a northerner you would probably like this weather we are having in FL compared to up there. As a floridian though I about froze walking to my car ?this morning too. Our blood is water down here, anything under 70 is freezing.
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LOL
Must be nice.
“Morning folks – any word on if Boston worked out an extension with Gonzalez yet?”
Heyman apparently has mentioned 8 years and $167M, but I don’t think anyone besides Boston and the Gonzalez camp actually knows, and I’d guess they’re going to be sharing that info with the world sometime in early April.
“Morning folks – any word on if Boston worked out an extension with Gonzalez yet”
It’s not going to happen. They are probably going to game the system and not announce a sub rosa agreement that has probably already been reached until after Opening Day so that it isn’t included in the luxury tax on this year’s payroll.
Shame
According to a story on mlb.com, the deal is done between the red sox and padres and gonzalez is all but a sock now.
Erin
The other day I went to work, it was 45 degrees out. I had on a pair of pants under my pants and a long sleeve shirt under my jacket with a hat on. My boss was wearing dress pants with sandals and a light sweater. (She is from ohio) and she made fun of me for thinking it was cold.
It’s not going to happen. They are probably going to game the system and not announce a sub rosa agreement that has probably already been reached until after Opening Day so that it isn’t included in the luxury tax on this year’s payroll.
__
funny how the whole baseball world knows it, but mlb lets them get away with it anyway.
tyankesfan-that’s funny. 45 degrees sounds pretty good about now. It’s supposed to be in the low 20s in Chicago all week, with more snow on Thursday or Friday. Want to switch places???
I see the Lee negotiations going similar to Burnett & Teix.
Tiex had 160M from the Angels, 190M from the Nats, 172M from The Sox and the Yankees winning bid was 182M
Burnett had 80M from Atlanta and they offered 82M
I don’t see the Yankees going to a guaranteed 6 or 7 years on a 33 year old pitcher. I think they will match any 4-5 year offer @ a bit higher annual. Then it’s time for Lee to decide
Thanks for the info guys.
Rich – How is that legal?!
I gotta say, I do sometimes wonder why a player like Gonzalez would sign an extension without testing the market when you see what a guy like Werth got. I guess the possibility that you might get injured or have a bad year right before you are a FA is enough to keep guys from doing so..
Pretty sure it doesn’t violate any rules. He’s under contract for 2011 no matter what, so the timing of any extension can be handled at their leisure.
Shame Spencer
It’s legal as long as there is no proof that there is an agreement.
Erin says:
December 6, 2010 at 9:04 am
tyankesfan-that’s funny. 45 degrees sounds pretty good about now. It’s supposed to be in the low 20s in Chicago all week, with more snow on Thursday or Friday. Want to switch places??? ?
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Brr. Ill stick with my 30-40 degrees in FL. At least it gets up in the 60s during the day. Though I have never seen snow so maybe we could switch places for a while.
Heyman says theres a framework for an 8 year $167 million extension for Gonzalez. But then again, it’s Jon Heyman and we know how reliable he is.
i guess that’s true as long as they only pay him what he is already getting in 2011. Anyway, enough sox talk. hopefully we have some big yankee news today.
If I were voting, in no particular order, The Boss, Tommy John, Marvin Miller. With a lot of consideration to Billy
“If I were voting, in no particular order, The Boss, Tommy John, Marvin Miller. With a lot of consideration to Billy”
I’d go Miller and Ted Simmons. I think The Boss waits til 2013.
tyanksfan36 December 6th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Brr. Ill stick with my 30-40 degrees in FL. At least it gets up in the 60s during the day. Though I have never seen snow so maybe we could switch places for a while.
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Sounds like a plan.
You’re not missing much with the snow, believe me. I don’t mind it around Christmastime, but if could disappear on December 26th I’d be happy. lol
If Adrian Gonzalez signs for less than Teixeira money he’s a fool. He could piggyback the contract that Albert Pujols will get.
Why Pedroia, Youkilis, and Lester signed for less than market value is beyond imagination.
A tiny clubhouse with rats and a 99 year old dinosaur ballpark can’t be the attraction.
Maybe it’s the silly, squeezed in fans.
“Why Pedroia, Youkilis, and Lester signed for less than market value is beyond imagination.”
Probably because they were not on the market. Same as Cano, Longoria, David Wright, etc.
Some thoughts on this weekend’s doings:
1. Sandy Alderson really needs to shut up. We understand that he’s a bargain bin shopper, always has been always will be – that’s why Bud likes him so much. But he has no business mocking the Nationals for signing Jayson Werth. Get your own house in order before you worry about what other teams – teams that are more talented than yours and have a brighter future – are doing.
2. I get the Gonzalez trade for Boston but I’m not sure it makes them a better team. Youk isn’t as good as Beltre at 3b and Gonzalez is essentially replacing the offense that they lost in Beltre but they still have taken a major hit behind the plate going from Victor Martinez to Salty and ‘Tek.
3. You can’t compare the package that San Diego got for Gonzo to packages the Royals would get for Greinke or the D’Backs would get for Upton for three reasons:
a) Gonzo is older
b) Gonzo is a FA at the end of the year while the other two are locked up at reasonable prices for a long time
c) Gonzo is coming off major surgery and may not be ready to play when the opening bell sounds.
I still think that it would/should take Phil Hughes being included to get either Greinke or Upton. That said, if it doesn’t take Hughes I’m all over Greinke. Trade for him, sign Cliff Lee and I’m happy. Get both those players and sign Crawford and I’m going to give Brian a big wet kiss right on the mouth.
This was posted yesterday, so he’ll be on today:
cgrand14 tomorrow I get to take on @RealSkipBayless for a down on @espn_firsttake First and Ten. I think it will be in the second hour of the show
Actually Chip I thought that comment by Alderson was pretty baller…
I’ve heard that owners and GM’s around the game are extremely angry with Washington for signing that deal. And Boras didn’t even call around to get any team to match it because he knew it was a huge number that nobody would come close to.
MLB radio reporting that Pat Gillick is one who will be announced as Cooperstown-bound this morning.
Joelsherman1 #Yankees would like to get Aceves back, but on minor lge deal so he can rehab injuries/not take up 40-man roster spot
The deal isn’t one I would want for a guy like Werth but the Nationals are a team desperate to get people in the seats/interested in any capacity.
Joelsherman1 #Rockies among teams interested in recently non-tendered #Yankees RHP Alfredo Aceves.
Joelsherman1
#Rockies among teams interested in recently non-tendered #Yankees RHP Alfredo Aceves.
3 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter
Joelsherman1 – #Yankees would like to get Aceves back, but on minor lge deal so he can rehab injuries/not take up 40-man roster spot
JackCurryYES The Red Sox lamented losing Teixeira to Yankees as FA two years ago. Now they have answer in Gonzalez
JackCurryYES The Red Sox lamented losing Teixeira to Yankees as FA two years ago. Now they have answer in Gonzalez
—
Unfortunately for us Jack Curry is right…
Fortunately for us, they don’t have an answer to Jeter, Rivera, Montero, etc
TylerKepner Hal Steinbrenner should tweet like this. RT @JimIrsay: I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together!!!
Chip —
If ever Cashman had an incentive NOT to make a major move you’ve just given it to him!
The Werth contract is ridiculous for a guy who turns 32 in May, has never hit .300, never driven in 100 runs, never stolen more than 20 bases and only once hit 30 HR.
The same numbers for Carl Crawford would be a bargain by comparison
Buzz is that Steinbrenner is indeed getting to the HOF this morning.
Erin —
Are you the Walrus?
let someone else get hammered with a tex type contract for an outfielder with speed, who should NOT be making anywhere near 20 Million/ Year.
86w183 December 6th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Erin ?
Are you the Walrus?
**************************
yes, I am the Walrus.
86
no, she is the egg man
Patrick -
I don’t doubt that people are upset with Washington for the Werth deal – I’m not one of them. Rizzo had to overpay Werth the same way Stick had to overpay Jimmy Key and Mike Gallego and the same way the Mets had to overpay Beltran and Pedro.
Rizzo’s fighting against the perception that the Nationals are a doormat team. He has to overpay to get top guys to come in and augment the youngsters he’s bringing along. Frankly, I would rather see him overpay for Werth than overpay to keep Adam Dunn.
And most importantly, it’s not Rizzo’s job to worry about how this contract impacts other teams down the line.
RiverAveBlues RT @AndrewMarchand: Jayson Starks says buzz is George is getting into HoF. Just “buzz” for now.
I’m no eggman but in a different life I was known as the assman
Bronx Jeers December 6th, 2010 at 9:46 am
I?m no eggman but in a different life I was known as the assman
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My prediction for Crawford is 7 years, 130 million.
He would turn 36 at the end of the final year of that deal.
Patrick -
As I said above; I just don’t know how Adrian makes them a better team. Youk has become a top of the line 1b so there’s no real upgrade from him to Gonzalez there – but they take a hit defensively at 3b and have still taken a major hit behind the plate.
In my opinion they would have been better off using the prospects they gave up for Gonzo to get Brian McCann or Miguel Montero and re-signing Beltre.
How can there be “buzz” a guy is getting into the HOF?! I swear, some of these journalists…
Bret -
After what Werth just signed I can’t see Crawford coming in at less than 8 years. 8 @ $144 is my guess.
Signing Aceves to a minor league deal is reasonable. With the physical issues he’s had over the last 2 years, it gives him a chance to get back on track without pressure.
Cards itrying to negotiate an extension with Pujols before ST.
Could the outcome of that have an impact on Gonzalez’s contract situation?
TylerKepner Tampa AP legend Mark Didtler is here. Strongest sign of all that this could be the day that George Steinbrenner makes it to Cooperstown.
“How can there be “buzz” a guy is getting into the HOF?! I swear, some of these journalists”
The announcement is at 10 this morning, Shame. Not surprising some of the names are leaking out a little in advance.
Chip,
Crawford would need a Nationals type team stuck in a Nationals type situation to get that kind of commitment.
7 years, 130 is one more guaranteed year than Holliday and 1.5 million per more in salary.
Mark this post.
Chip is right.
To become relevant, teams like the Nats have to overpay guys. It’s the cost of doing business.
Plus, folks should be happy they signed Werth.
It puts a major crimp in the Red Sox plans.
Just adding Gonzalez isn’t enough.
If the Yankees add Lee and Pettitte, that offsets a Red Sox lineup overloaded with LH bats.
“7 years, 130 is one more guaranteed year than Holliday and 1.5 million per more in salary.”
Not unreasonable, but Holliday signed in a different market. I’m sure Crawford’s agent is using Werth as the measuring stick, rather than Holliday.
Mell, my assumption was the names were starting to trickle out but I just get annoyed with the way its framed as “buzz.” If you aren’t ready to announce it or put your name on a claim, then don’t. That’s how I look at it anyway. I understand they’re doing their job.
one player won’t make the red sox a great team. it’s who they put around a great player.
they have a huge problem in papelbon trending down so rapidly. the outfield is no big deal. catching is weak. the bullpen is a mess.
the starting pitching 3,4,5 is really erratic.
what boston does from now on will tell how much the yankees have to do to stay ahead.
one thing that has to happen for the yankees is to get back the batting average that arod, teixeira, jeter, and granderson lost last year. what was up with that anyway?
one thing the yankees will have that the red sox can not match is the excitement that bringing up a new phenom in montero will bring.
this year is shaping up as the two teams going all in against each other while last year the red sox let bay go and went with a retread center fielder.
with the red sox not making the playoffs , you had to figure they’d come out swinging.
now lets see the yankee counter moves.
Mell,
7 years is still equal to that crazy Werth contract length with a higher AAV.
Also, a second lefty in the pen have become more necessary with the lefty lineup boston is going to put out.
has become
Also – Its being brought up a lot as far as one of Boston’s weaknesses, but am I the only one that sees them finding another catcher? Maybe not before ST but I don’t know if I see them sticking with Salt/Tek for a full season.
“No mistake Mr. Jeers. According to the state of New York, you ARE the assman.”
the best way to honor the boss is to sign cliff lee
Somebody mentioned Josh Willingham earlier as a RH target to compliment the Sox LH heavy lineup. I think it’s very realistic. The Sox still have Kalish and Ellsbury as trade chips. They could always deal Lowrie as well. Jose Reyes will be a free agent soon. He’s probably their long term shortstop target.
Brett:
It is, but only about $300,000 more in AAV. Maybe that’s enough. I don’t know.
Joelsherman1 About 5 mins until find out if Steinbrenner, Miller, Gillick, Martin get into Hall thru Vet Committee
Mell,
The Werth contract is crazy and 7 years, 130 million is even MORE than crazy. I realize they’re different players but the Werth contract has to be looked at as somewhat of an outlier. Holliday’s contract is still fresh as well. Crawford shouldn’t make much more than BOTH of those guys. He’ll make more but not by much.
Sorry, but, I can’t see Martin getting into the HOF. Ralph Houk would have been a better choice
AG is no lock to get off to a good start with the red sox either. he’ll be facing a new league, cold weather, and high expectations, and a rabid fan base for the first time.
all this on a rehabbing left. shoulder.
odds are that he’ll be himself by august, but april and may games count too.
RiverAveBlues George Steinbrenner was not elected to the Hall of Fame. Received fewer than 8 votes and needed 12. Next eligibility is 2013.
As it turns out GMS is not going to the HOF. Needed 12 votes. Received fewer than 8 per RAB. Next up in 2013.
Pat -
I can’t see how Pujols and Gonzo would impact one another. Gonzalez is a good player but Albert is on a completely different level.
“Sorry, but, I can’t see Martin getting into the HOF.”
gb7-
as much as i love billy the manager, i agree that he doesn’t quite make it.
he needed to calm down a notch and stick around longer and pile up more wins.
the guy was a baseball genius though.
he was uncanny in bringing up double a guys like sundberg and having them do well immediately and turning a bad team around quickly.
No HOF for George.
Marvin Miller foiled again. Simply ridiculous.
New Post: Steinbrenner not elected to Hall of Fame
Omg what in the world just came out of Pat Gillicks nose!
SJ -
Frankly I’m giddy the Nationals signed Werth for a couple of reasons:
1. Puts a crimp in the plans of the Sox as you said
2. Philly doesn’t get a first round pick for the guy. Washington’s first round pick was protected based on their record so instead the Phillies get a second rounder.
The one thing I will say is that I’m slightly disappointed that right after signing Werth the Nats put Willingham on the block. I know they still want Carlos Pena and a pitcher but in their place I might move Willingham to 1b and still try to sign a starter (Pavano).
Now if they can get a starting pitcher back for Willingham that would be another kettle of fish entirely.
Miller was one vote shy.
Have to agree with aC1, that adding a capable lefty arm to the bullpen is a must.
Can’t see Cash doing another 3 year @ 4+M deal again though. Look for a low cost/2 year option, or a trade for someone who has an affordable (sub $1M contract).
Wonder what it would take to pry Coke back to the Yankees?
Congrats to Gillick.
Better luck in 2013 GMS.
Erin December 6th, 2010 at 9:45 am
86w183 December 6th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Erin ?
Are you the Walrus?
**************************
yes, I am the Walrus.
_________
I thought the Walrus was Paul… didn’t I hear that it was a clue for us all?
Vida Blue – looked like Sandy Koufax his first full year and was VERY exciting to watch. But he fell off the cliff and turned into a C+/B- pitcher. 108 ERA+/ 1.233 WHIP do NOT get you into the HOF.
Dave Concepcion – A very solid player over 19 years, with a career 88 OPS+, and only breaking 100 5 times. The only HOF thing about Davy was the team he played on.
Steve Garvey – a very solid career, 116 OPS+, but not near as good as Donnie, albeit over a longer product career. When guys like Garvey (very good, maybe excellent, but not great) get in to the HOF, the floodgates will open…. as there are many, many very good, maybe excellent, but not great players around. No HOF for this guy.
Ron Guidry – One simply amazing year, and 4 very, very good years is not enough out of a 14 year career. 119 ERA+ (think Chien-Ming Wang)
Tommy John – Well, ya gotta give the dude credit for 26 Seasons and 288 Wins. But a career 111 ERA+/1.28 WHIP. He’s really most famous for the ‘Tommy John Surgery’ then anything else. He raises an interesting debate about ‘Quality vs. Quantiy’.
BR.Com says:
Black Ink Pitching – 11 (207), Average HOFer ? 40
Gray Ink Pitching – 134 (120), Average HOFer ? 185
Hall of Fame Monitor Pitching – 112 (80), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Pitching – 44 (53), Average HOFer ? 50
‘Hall of Fame Monitor’ is about cummulative stats, so in 26 years, he piles up some numbers.
A few great years, solid and dependable, but not HOF worthy.
Al Oliver
Black Ink Batting – 16 (140), Average HOFer ? 27
Gray Ink Batting – 127 (142), Average HOFer ? 144
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting – 116 (123), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting – 40 (158), Average HOFer ? 50
Another very good but not great player, with a very solid 18 year career. A .785 OPS/121 OPS+ career. For reference, Matsui has a .848 / 123 career line. For an OFer/1Bman, Olivers numbers are not enough.
Ted Simmons – A tough one. 20 seaons Catching, a 117 OPS+, a 34% CS rate, and a very good glove behind the plate. While much better on D, he hasn’t had near the overall value of Posada. BR.com says:
Gray Ink Batting – 95 (237), Average HOFer ? 144
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting – 124 (109), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting – 44 (115), Average HOFer ? 50
At least he’s close. I would have to know more about how many Catchers are already in.
Rusty Staub
Black Ink Batting – 4 (415), Average HOFer ? 27
Gray Ink Batting – 89 (261), Average HOFer ? 144
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting – 58 (328), Likely HOFer ? 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting – 38 (179), Average HOFer ? 50
A very nice player, but no HOFer. If they start letting in the ‘very good’, the HOF building will need to be bigger then the Pentagon.
Billy Martin – 11 years as a players with a 81 OPS+. A very good manager, and a lot of fun to watch. But are we talking about the HOF? Or the Hall of Getting-hired-and-getting fired-by-George-Steinbrenner?
Simmons and Conception are the only ones who should even be on the list for ‘being considered’.