Are the Nationals a threat?
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 07, 2010 
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Could the Nationals be a legitimate threat to disrupt the Yankees offseason?
There are growing reports here in Orlando that the Nationals are legitimately involved in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes. There are rumors of big money, and there is speculation about a seven-year offer.
Washington jumped into the big-contract arena with Jayson Werth, and some of the chatter among writers was that the Nationals would have been better off spending that money on Lee. Now it appears the Nats might have more money to spend than ever imagined.
You can’t predict baseball.
If Lee wants to opt for the Nats because huger money trumps huge money and being in a position to win the WS every year, let him go.
eh, I think he’s greedy…but also competitive. Besides, the Yankees will match those 7 years.
If Lee signs with the Nats because they offer him the most money, I’ll lose all respect for him. Not that he cares. LOL!
Only way the Nats can win is if they go to 7 years. If they offer 7.175 or something, I don’t think the Yankees go anywhere near that much.
Maybe the Nats are being funded by Rangel. He knows how to juggle his books.
I don’t want us to offer him 7 years. The guy is 33 years old. That contract might be a dog when he’s 40.
Do I sense another Cashman 3-team blockbuster ?
Bret -
I don’t think the Yankees will match 7 years – but then again I don’t think the Nationals will go there.
Again, I just don’t see the Nationals fitting Lee into a budget if they’re so tight right now that they’re trying to deal away Willingham to save money.
I know they have the wealthiest owners in baseball; but they’ve got a terrible TV deal and limited revenue in terms of tickets.
Sure, adding Lee will help in that second phase, but I just really don’t see it.
That said, a rotation in 2012 with Lee, Strasburg, Zimmerman and Maya would be a force.
It will be funny if after all this Lee ends up signing for 5 years.
Lee may be happy with the 6 years. We just have to have in the back of our minds that Lee also can affect CC. We don’t need CC opting out of his contract after 2011 because Lee made way more money.
MTU -
I think if the Yankees strike out on Lee you’ll see Crawford and Greinke in pinstripes…no way the Yankees don’t add a front line guy.
LGY December 7th, 2010 at 10:23 am
It will be funny if after all this Lee ends up signing for 5 years.
—————
It will be funnier still if he winds up with a team out of left field, like the Braves.
repost:
“Where was all the money last year that is available to teams this year?”
pat-
The money was there. It was just sewn in the mattress. Baseball last year did in microcosm what corporations are doing now. Holding onto cash.
Despite the financial problems baseball revenues continued to go up.
As usual, the owners just can’t help themselves. So after a year of fattening the bedding they are back spending lavishly on what for many of them is their hobby – baseball.
It’s why guys who love the free market in every other aspect of life, hate it in baseball. They just can’t help themselves for very long.
The game is flush with cash.
Chip,
They’re trying to deal Willingham. That’s true.
The reason why?
That’s your speculation.
Is it because they’re “so tight”?
or is it because they want to free up even more cash to make an even more absurd offer for Lee to satisfy their big spending urges?
The Werth contract as me leaning towards the latter.
Is Lee, Texeira “redux” ?
Nats come close but…….It’s the Yankees after all.
Yeah. that’s what I’m talkin’ about.
Close but NO cigar ( I hope).
Screw lee if he wants 7yrs… We will find someone else
Chip,
Zimmerman is a 3B.
Dude is not Casey Kelly.
Cliff Lee’s possible choices:
1. Rangers – Play close to home.
2. Nationals – Most money.
3. Yankees – Best team with best chance to win.
Chip-
We’ll see.
I hope plan A comes to fruition but if I’m Stealthman I’m like white on rice on other possibilities.
Seems only prudent.
Lee for 7 yrs is a bit too much. Can’t blame the guy for taking that if it’s offerred by the Nationals. That’s another $20+ million. Hard to give that up if offerred.
LGY – incarcerated bobs twitter feed was even wrong when it reported he died. him claiming lee is coming to the yankees is absolutely bad news. hahaha
The Nats have a 2nd Zimmerman. The Washington Zimmermans.
I think Chip is off base about Willingham. Rizzo said they are building a contending nucleaus. Which might mean dealing Willingham for someone they think will help in a year.
I may have the blinders on when it comes to the Nationals, but I am really not buying into these reports.
It seems like more Winter Meeting lobby fearmongering than truth following the aftershock of the Werth deal.
It took years and years of campaigning to get a stadium built in washington d.c. Huge amounts of public money were poured into the stadium and the area for a team owned by a billionaire.
And after all that public money indirectly flowed into the Lerner’s pockets, they’ve put out an awful product that no one cares about. The Nats draw 10K per game and are seen as an embarrassment when they are noticed.
We’ve seen owners try this before. It doesn’t work. But they’ll keep trying.
Bret The Hitman December 7th, 2010 at 10:25 am
Chip,
They’re trying to deal Willingham. That’s true.
The reason why?
That’s your speculation.
Is it because they’re “so tight”?
or is it because they want to free up even more cash to make an even more absurd offer for Lee to satisfy their big spending urges?
The Werth contract as me leaning towards the latter.
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The Werth contract is severely misunderstood; it wasn’t that the Nationals wanted to make an absurd offer so much as it is that they’ve been wholly unsuccessful making reasonable ones.
When they wanted Tex and were offering similar money to what he was being offered from Boston – they weren’t considered a serious bidder; when they wanted Lackey they weren’t considered serious – they realized this year that to get a major player they were going to have to overspend to do it, to shift the way baseball thinks about the Nationals – they accomplished that…but as with everything else, the talking heads around baseball took it too far.
According to them now the Nationals have gone from doormat to being in on every major free agent under the sun…Why now they’re poised to sign not just Werth, but Crawford and Lee as well…heck, they may even deal for Joe Mauer…
This is the problem you run into with these “insiders” they get burned once (as in no one had the inside info that Werth was even talking to the Nats) and so they don’t want to get burned again so they throw garbage out there hoping something sticks.
# Carlo December 7th, 2010 at 10:29 am
LGY – incarcerated bobs twitter feed was even wrong when it reported he died. him claiming lee is coming to the yankees is absolutely bad news. hahaha
Or when he broke the news that Joe G was going to the cubs.
Or when he said the Vikings will make Vick the highest paid quarter back next year.
As for this Washington report…….I aint a buyer. Sure they have money to spend. Sure they are trying to piece together a quality team…..but the fact is, their window doesnt really open for 2-3 years when Strasburg returns, Harper matures, and some of their other farm system talent is big league ready. getting lee now doesnt make sense….if anything, they should be saving their ammo for Felix or Johnson or Greinke since the timing will be better.
Whats different this year than in years past is the explosion of twitter…..which, for the most part makes the nonsense even more absurd because everyone accepts that even “journalists” cant be held accountable for the 140 character bits they spew on twitter.
Cashman knows the market….he will land what he needs. he isnt asleep at the wheel down there.
Jerkface December 7th, 2010 at 10:29 am
The Nats have a 2nd Zimmerman. The Washington Zimmermans.
I think Chip is off base about Willingham. Rizzo said they are building a contending nucleaus. Which might mean dealing Willingham for someone they think will help in a year.
——————————————-
You just spent yesterday telling me how awesome Willingham is – why wouldn’t they want him to be part of that nucleus? He’s only a year older than Werth.
BloggingBombers Source: Nationals to offer Cliff Lee a seven-year deal. Source says Yankees appear unwilling to go to a seventh year for the 32-year-old.
If someone wants to give him 7 years then that’s the way it is.
The Yankees shouldn’t go to 7 years. Despite what everyone is saying, I believe Lee wants to pitch for the Yankees. I think he’s wanted that for a long time.
So the question is…. does Lee take the extra year and play for the Nationals? I just don’t see it happening.
Chip,
You ignored my point.
It’s possible they’re trying to move Willingham to create more room to bid more aggressively on Lee.
A team that wildly overspends on Werth is not looking to cut costs.
How dumb was Roy Halladay to sign that extension.
LGY December 7th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Chip,
Zimmerman is a 3B.
Dude is not Casey Kelly.
——————————–
Ryan Zimmerman is a 3b
Jordan Zimmerman is a P
If Lee goes to the Nats it’s Plan B time !
cc, + frontline starting pitcher trade(s).
maybe Upton too.
IMO the Yanks are likely to be toast by 2015 anyway, what with a 40 year old ARod, a 35 year old Teixeira, and a 35 year old Sabathia owed $66.5M in 2015.
Therefore, since it isn’t my money but they are my rooting interest, I think the Yanks might as well go all in on Lee, 7 years if need be, and for at least 2011 through 2014 the Yanks can rock and roll.
The Nats offered 2 additional years to get Werth to come there…..they probably would need to do the same for Lee and offer 8 to get him to come there.
SI_JonHeyman: chisox dangled beckham for a-gon. Was talk deal could expand to include floyd. But chi didn’t favor big quick ext for adrian 3 minutes ago via web
SI_JonHeyman teams in on lee believe contract length is very important to him. Could he choose #nats over #yanks for extra year?
Bret The Hitman December 7th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Chip,
You ignored my point.
It’s possible they’re trying to move Willingham to create more room to bid more aggressively on Lee.
A team that wildly overspends on Werth is not looking to cut costs.
———————
A team that wildly overspends on Werth may have to cut costs to make the numbers work.
My point is that to change the perception of the team the Nationals may have quite literally broken the bank to sign Werth and are now trying to make it fit into their budget.
For example, you ever buy a TV or something that you know you can’t really afford but you just really want it? Once you buy it you figure you’ll just cut back somewhere else to make up for the money you just spent…same premise.
Chip,
My bad. Forgot about him.
if he goes to Nats, at least he’ll be out of the AL!!
Again, it’s one thing to offer 7 years, but per what amount? If I’m Lee, I rather have 6/140 from the Yankees than 7/140 from the Nationals.
Clayton Kershaw come on down !
I think at this point, it’s safe to say the Yanks are out on Lee if the Nationals have indeed offered 7 years. What is plan B when it comes to starting pitching? A trade for Billingsley, Carmona, Nolasco maybe?
7 years for what money though….7/140 isn’t as good as 6/140. If Lee wants to pit h on the big stage then that certainly isn’t Washington. They would have to totally blow the Yanks offer out of the water IMO for him to go there.
Craw-
What if the Nats go 7/165 or so ?
Chip,
But my theory that the Nats are big spenders on Lee jibes with the number they floated out there at this year’s trade deadline.
They said 25 mil per for a frontline starter.
Then they go out and give Werth that deal.
You think they overreached and are spent.
ok.
You know what, I think the Nationals are being smart. They ARE a joke right now but they are fighting their butts off to get rid of that label. They are drafting smart and now they are throwing around some money. I don’t think they will get Lee but it’s smart for them to try. Frankly, I think every MLB team should be in on Lee, he’s that good.
Without Lee in the picture I keep seeing the August and September 2010 Yanks in my mind.
Not pretty.
Let the Nationals have him. He’ll break down halfway through his seven year deal, anyway, and the Yanks would be stuck with another (your choice), Carl Pavano, Randy Johnson, AJ Burnett etc.
Ya know, I may actually buy this Nationals thing.
Ted Lerner is 85 years old.
Unlike Wave’s point about the Yankees likely to be toast, this guy is probably literally going to be toast by the 7th year.
Why not rock and roll before you hit the big 90!!
“What if the Nats go 7/165 or so ?”
Then let them commit suicide.
Its not “safe” to say anything.
It’s a rumor.
The Nats offered Tex a bigger deal than the one he signed with the Yankees.
Let the process play out instead of panicking over every Tweet you read.
7 years for what money though….7/140 isn’t as good as 6/140. If Lee wants to pit h on the big stage then that certainly isn’t Washington. They would have to totally blow the Yanks offer out of the water IMO for him to go there.
—
Think of it from Lee’s perspective though. You see the Nationals throwing some money around, you know they already have Zimmerman and Strasburg with Harper on the horizon. Maybe Lee would think that this team REALLY wants to compete and will continue to spend like drunken sailors. If that’s the case, Washington becomes a desirable place because then maybe Lee would be on a competitive team in the last 4 years of his deal plus he’d be getting more money than he would any place else.
I doubt Lee signs with Washington but I can see why he might decide to go that way.
I love coming to the blog just to check for twitter updates. I’m technologically impaired so I don’t do the twitter thing myself, I just get the up-to-the-minute secondhand tweets on Lohud! Thank you all!
I asked this question yesterday.
What would you rather have?
Cliff Lee for 7 years?
OR
Zack Greinke via massive trade package
If no Lee – my guess would be:
Sign Crawford
Sign Russ Martin
Deal Montero, Betances, and two more prospects to KC for Greinke
Sign Rich Harden
Gear up to sign Yu Darvish next winter.
Also re: Nationals, Strasburg is good, obviously. I’m not trying to diminish his talents.. but can we all stop predicting that he and Lee would own that rotation for years? The kid hasn’t even pitch a full major league season yet…
SJ44 December 7th, 2010 at 10:43 am
Its not “safe” to say anything.
It’s a rumor.
The Nats offered Tex a bigger deal than the one he signed with the Yankees.
Let the process play out instead of panicking over every Tweet you read.
——————–
Well said.
Remember – “insiders” are in the business of breaking a story first, not getting it right.
SJ44 it’s enjoyable to play GM here and people are sharing their opinions. Thanks for the advice though.
Bret-
Cliff Lee.
LGY-
Makes sense to me. You can’t take it with you.
Even if the Nats offer the most money it doesn’t mean Lee will go there. I believe the Nats are a couple of years away from being a legitimate contender. Somewhere in the equation Lee wants to get a ring or two, the Yankees give him the best chance of that right now.
It’s pretty damed easy for a team to “draft smart” when you draft first or second every year.
“The Nats offered Tex a bigger deal than the one he signed with the Yankees”
Teixiera was a lot more married to the idea of being a Yankee than Lee is.
I asked this question yesterday.
What would you rather have?
Cliff Lee for 7 years?
OR
Zack Greinke via massive trade package
—
Cliff Lee for 7 years
SI_JonHeyman
teams in on lee believe contract length is very important to him. Could he choose #nats over #yanks for extra year?
11 minutes ago via web
*This jibes with the Moyer comp his agent whipped out at the trade deadline.
Chip,
I don’t know why folks on here continue to think they will go after Greinke. Greinke is going to be the 2nd coming of Ed Whitson, Jeff Weaver, and Kenny Rogers in NY. They sure as heck are not going to trade their best pitching prospect and their top prospect for a kid who has one great year and is a ticking time bomb in NYC.
Craw-
The guy is rich. Maybe he can afford it !
BIAW.
I’ve got most of the twitter updates. If it is 7 years, then I hope the Yanks don’t do it. 5-6 yrs is enough for Lee. I’d say sign Crawford and if Greinke can handle NY then go get him. Dominoes have to fall into place and now we can finally understand why Lee’s agent wants to wait cause he had a feeling the Nats were gonna jump in on Lee
CB
I guess it was sort of a rhetorical tongue in cheek question that guys who signed contracts last year must be asking themselves.
I saw Granderson on TV yesterday and they asked him about the Werth contract.
He said good for the Nats and good for Werth. People complain that small market teams don’t spend the revenue sharing money but the Nats did and then people complain they spent it wrong.
I have changed my mind. Give Lee the 7th year. We are in this position b/c we didn’t have a farm. I don’t won’t to waste a bunch of top prospect arms for another starting pitcher for this year. I want to follow the develop within pitching model or we will be in this position every 2 years, desperate to sign a pitching FA. One last deal and then let’s start pitching the kids.
Also as per discussion earlier, I believe Brackman has 2 options left because he pitched less than 20 games in 2007 and didn’t pitch at all in 2008. 2009 and 2010 options have been used. 2011 and 2012 have not.
It’s pretty damed easy for a team to “draft smart” when you draft first or second every year.
—
Yeah true hahahaha
But the fact remains. If the Nationals want to spend big bucks after getting Strasburg and Harper (and whoever they get in this draft which is projected to be very rich in talent)… that’s a pretty dangerous combination in my opinion. I could see them competing for the playoffs in a few years.
I’d like to see Cash trade for either Greinke or Josh Johnson and get cliff lee. Why wouldn’t lee want to spend the next 6 yrs with his buddy CC ? They are close as are the wives. Also, Lefties in our rotation will be important now with the sux’s new acquisition.
“Teixiera was a lot more married to the idea of being a Yankee than Lee is.”
How do you know that’s true? We didn’t find out about Teixiera true love of being a Yankee until he became a Yankee.
Lee has to have a good imagination or the need to take the last dollar to sign with the Nats.
I have a feeling that this whole Nationals rumor is a plant by Lee’s agent. Make it known that the Nats are making a big play for Lee then when people ask why say it’s because they are offering a 7th year. What do the Yankees and Rangers do? Offer a 7th year. Duhhhh
You just spent yesterday telling me how awesome Willingham is – why wouldn’t they want him to be part of that nucleus? He’s only a year older than Werth.
–
Yea I spent yesterday telling you how much better Willingham is than James Loney. I never said they should not trade him or would not trade him, just that your silly Loney for Willingham swap was stupid. Which it was. Because Willingham is much better than Loney. However Willingham does not have the upside of Werth and certainly not long term upside. He is a valuable bat on the trade market because he is a right handed power hitting patient outfielder with a cheap contract.
If they can get something better than James Loney for Willingham, and it fits their long term plans then they will deal him.
Rizzo said that everyone except Strasberg, Zimmerman, and Harper are on the table. I think they probably would not deal Ian Desmond, but it is clear they are trying to do something so that when Strasberg is back in the rotation they will have a strong club.
Something fishy about how only these writers with NY connections have info on this 7 year Nationals thing.
BloggingBombers Yankees to hold Derek Jeter press conference at 2:30 pm today in Tampa at Steinbrenner Field. This should be interesting.
Jeter presser at 2:30 today.
If I see top brass at the Jeter conference it will really annoy me. We need to be focusing on our 2011 needs, not some dog and pony show in Tampa.
Wave,
Ye of little faith, are you saying that Sabathia and Teixeira will be finished by 2015, or that they won’t be elite players anymore?
Even A-Rod won’t be all that old and he’ll likely be the DH anyway.
“Something fishy about how only these writers with NY connections have info on this 7 year Nationals thing”
Especially when a Washington writer has a team source who says 7 years “is not happening”.
I see the Nationals finally gathered their drug money together to sign some free agents this year.
The Nationals learned well from George. You overpay to get who you want and ownership is putting money into building a winner. You have to applaud them if you are a Yankee fan or possibly risk being labeled a…uh….not so consistent person?
If it was 2 years down the road when Strausberg and Harper were ready along with their other pitchers, then going that big for a pitcher like Lee would make sense for both the Nats and for Lee. Right now, that’s two wasted years.
Carlo December 7th, 2010 at 10:51 am
If I see top brass at the Jeter conference it will really annoy me. We need to be focusing on our 2011 needs, not some dog and pony show in Tampa.
***********************
I read somewhere yesterday that only Hal will be there.
Mell,
linkage?
Ledger_Yankees RT @AdamKilgoreWP: About buzz that the #Nats are going to throw 7 years at Lee? “Not happening,” a team source said.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 10:46 am
SJ44 it’s enjoyable to play GM here and people are sharing their opinions. Thanks for the advice though.
———–
It’s not enjoyable to everybody. Some people on here live in the real world.
The “buzz” yesterday was that The Boss would be elected to the HOF. Seemed like that rumor worked out well.
SJ is dead on. People take whatever stupid rumor is out there and run with it. 90% of what you read in the offseason is nothing but crap.
But I will believe its 7 years when I see it.
RT @AdamKilgoreWP: buzz that the Nats are going to throw seven years at Cliff Lee? “Not happening,” team source said. http://wapo.st/hEUMdC
New Post: Yankees make Jeter signing official
Cash said he will also be at Jeter’s press conference.
Since Lee was drafted by the Expos would going to the Nats be considered going home?
raymagnetic-
40 is old. 35 is old, for that matter. Sure we can hope they’ll still be firing on all cylinders, but the likelihood is they won’t. Might even be spending a lot of time in the shop.
All good things must come to an end, and I can accept that as long as that end is safely distant in the future.
Ledger_Yankees RT @AdamKilgoreWP: About buzz that the #Nats are going to throw 7 years at Lee? “Not happening,” a team source said.
—
Haha just as I suspected, this whole Lee to the Nats thing is a plant from Lee’s camp.
Lee to the Nats? Yankees in trouble if it does happen? Pettitte maybe retiring? Yankees in double trouble if both happen? Wouldn’t having Aroldis Chapman waiting in the wings been real nice at this point? and how team friendly is that contract right about now…yet another screwup by cashman..wasn’t he the one that professed going big game hunting (as in all in for chapman)is the way to succeed? Good luck with Ivan Nova as your #3 pitcher this year cashman… or emptying your beloved farm system for head case #2 in zack greinke…
G. Franco. It’s a sport and as I said it’s enjoyable for fans here to speculate and play GM. No one here knows anything more than anyone else unless they are in those suites at the hotel.
If the Nats want to go all in like that, its their money, so go for it.
The trouble is that they won’t have the history and draw to sustain it like the Yankees and Red Sox have.
They can make a big splash this year, and what if it doesn’t pan out? They won’t spend like drunken sailors two years in a row. The Werth contract will probably hurt them longer term. Lee? Hard to say, but if he does have a health issue come up the Nats are in big trouble.
You can put money into the team as Big Stein did, but you also have to have the club base to expand the money coming in. It isn’t just about making a big signing or two, its about how that investment can pay off as well. The Yanks, even during down years, still have a lot of fans. The Nats? They are in the same boat as the Rays, just too little history, and too much of it not very impressive, to have the fan base to sustain big spending.
The Rays have competed well the past few years, playoffs/WS, and still can fill the stadium.
If the Nats get Lee due to over spending like fools, they do. Its business. The Yanks will go to Lee with the offer they want to give. If its close to what Lee wants they’ll talk, if another team blows them out, the Yankees will walk away.
Chip:
IMO you are nuts.
Sign Crawford….Yes !
Sign Russ Martin….You don’t know (no one does) how well he is going to come back from the fractured hip, especially being a catcher.
Deal Montero, Betances, and two more prospects to KC for Greinke….Grienke is not the answer with his emotional issues and only one really good year under his belt. Montero has come this far and The Yankees have stuck with him, let the kid earn the job and show what he can do.
I like alot of your ideas just not these two. (Martin and Greinke)
Outside of the hip, there is a lot not to like about martin. His last 3 years have been less than stellar……in the NL West.
I wonder if Cashman has to be at the Jeter press conference ? It would seem to me that there is more pressing business in Orlando than going to Tampa. They should have waited until the Winter Meetings are over for the formality.
I don’t know whether the Yankees will pursue Grienke or not, but a person with social anxiety disorder is not likely to be negatively affected by pitching in a major market versus a smaller one. Grienke has pitched well in front of sell out crowds at Y.S., Fenway and elsewhere.
He is much more likely to be bothered by an individual hassling him face-to-face in a restaurant than being booed by thousands of nameless, faceless fans.
Comparing him to Ed Whitson, Jeff Weaver et al is completely inaccurate.
Definitely have to give the Nationals some credit here. Many around baseball have said the signing of Werth was a bad thing. I’m sick and tired of billionaire owners pocketing all of their revenue instead of investing a portion of it back into their team.
With this being said, the Nationals are still a little ways away from being able to compete, but, almost there. So just like they did with Werth they need to throw money out there in order to convince players to play. Absolutely nothing wrong with this.
The Yanks can’t be the only team in MLB to throw around money and land the big fish.