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Notes from Day 2: The Jeter edition

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 07, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Yankees Jeter Contract

My guess is that I have around 45 minutes of audio from today’s Derek Jeter press conference. Some of it is about Cliff Lee, and a lot of it has already been published, but there’s a lot of leftover Jeter notes.

The length of the contract
Jeter said a fourth year was important to him, if only to keep him away from free agency as long as possible.
“Just like the first time around. The longer, the better,” Jeter said. “You don’t have to deal with this or answer questions. The first time around, I didn’t know what it was like, but now that I know what it was like, the fourth year was important so I don’t have to answer these questions for quite some time.

Brian Cashman had publicly discussed his concerns about Jeter’s age and 2010 struggles, but he said that was taken into account. He suggested he never had a problem with committing to four years.
“I didn’t sign him to a 10-year deal or a seven-year deal,” Cashman said. “The deal we’ve done, we’re comfortable with what we’ve done. I think this contract takes into account everything we said publicly.”

How long Jeter will stay at shortstop
Cashman said the question was never discussed with Jeter during these negotiations.
“I don’t need to talk about that now because that’s not an issue now,” Cashman said. “That doesn’t mean we haven’t had constructive conversations about how to get better and things that need to be improved in his game, no different from any other player on our team. But I don’t feel the need to talk about him about a position change in the year 2011 when that’s not something that’s best for the New York Yankees, and he hasn’t played himself off that position. I don’t need to cover that in these negotiations. We’ll cross that line whenever that happens, if that happens.”

Yankees JeterIs Jeter still a top-of-the-order hitter?
“We’d like him to,” Joe Girardi said. “We’d like him to have a big season for us next year. Score over 100 runs, hit .300 and just play great baseball. That’s what we expect from Derek every year. This year when he didn’t hit .300, we were all a little shocked. One year is not going to be as good as the previous one, or you might have a great year the next year and then the following one might not be so great. I do believe Derek has a lot of great baseball left in him. I do. And we need him to be very productive for us.”

Girardi at least made it seem as if he’s open to change, but basically said he’s made no decisions about next year’s team. If he does make a drastic change, like bumping a player of Jeter’s status to the bottom of the order, the decision will come after a conversation with the player himself.
“Those are things you have to evaluate, and sometimes they can be tougher than others, those conversations,” Girardi said. “When I look at our clubhouse, our guys want to win first and foremost. Usually when you have discussions with players, they have an idea where you’re coming from and they want to win.”

Bouncing back from last season
“You’d like to think that last year was a hiccup, so to speak, but it’s my job to go out there and prove that it was,” Jeter said. “I understand any concerns that anyone has, especially from an organizational standpoint. I’m sure they have concerns about a lot of people throughout the year, so they’re entitled to those concerns. It’s my job to go out and change that opinion.”

Girardi said the public scrutiny that came with these negotiations won’t necessarily serve as a motivating factor for Jeter.
“I think that first drive comes from within,” Girardi said. “But sometimes players hear things, (and) they want to prove to themselves that they’re still great players that can play at an extremely high level. Some players relish in proving naysayers wrong. I’m not sure that’s necessarily Derek, but I’m sure there’s a little of that in there.”

Would things have been different with George Steinbrenner still alive?
“That’s unfair,” Jeter said. “I had some disagreements with The Boss, too. I don’t know if you could say that. We got into it a couple times. Probably more than you’d think.”

The importance of last week’s face-to-face meeting
“I think it helped a lot,” Hal Steinbrenner said. “No. 1, I think we got to air our frustrations, how big the media part of it had become. We just talked and talked about feelings, and talked about what we thought and where we thought we needed to end up. And it all turned out for the best. But it was absolutely imperative, I think, at that point that we sit down face to face and kind of not leave the room until we get closer and closer and closer.”

Cashman, Jeter, Hal Steinbrenner, Casey Close and Randy Levine were all in that Tampa meeting. Cashman, Jeter and Steinbrenner met again in New York on Saturday.
“The perception is that this has been a month-long negotiation,” Jeter said “But the negotiations pretty much started last week. Once everything got started, it really didn’t take that long. People were assuming what was going on, that I was making salary demands. Some of them were pretty funny, what people said I was demanding. It just wasn’t true.”

Associated Press photos

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315 Responses to “Notes from Day 2: The Jeter edition”

  1. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    Where were Levine and Hank today?

  2. Fran the original December 7th, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    Mick,

    Don’t know about Hank, but they announced at the press conference that Randy Levine and Lonn Trost were here in NY holding a press conference about the Pinstripe Bowl.

  3. CB December 7th, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    If the yankees signed Carl Crawford for a 100M+ contract it would be one of the poorer trade offs they’ve made over the past several years.

    To pass on Matt Holliday last season only to sign Crawford this season for more money makes very little sense.

    Not only is Holliday a superior player and they would have had him for this past season when their core will be a year younger than they will next season.

    Last season was the season to decide whether or not you wanted to spend big on a LF.

  4. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    Fran

    Jete also said he was angry that this went public and that he was characterized as arrogant and egotistical thanks to the “hatchet” men who mysteriously were not present.

  5. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    Great job providing detail Chad. Interesting comments to say the least, particularly Cashman saying he never had a problem committing to four years .

  6. Fran the original December 7th, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    Mick,

    maybe that’s why they held the press conference when they did, knowing Levine and Hank had other commitments.

  7. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    And Jeter took shots at Cash too.The guy who told him to check out other offers.
    I guess both sides had their way of negotiating.

  8. blake December 7th, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    “Not only is Holliday a superior player and they would have had him for this past season when their core will be a year younger than they will next season. ”

    totally agree and many of us said the same thing last winter.

  9. Chad Jennings December 7th, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Hank was there, he just wasn’t at the table. Might have arrived late, I’m not sure. I didn’t see him until after the press conference itself was over.

    Levine was in New York for a press conference about the Pinstripe Bowl.

  10. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Fran

    Maybe they told the 2 stooges to take a hike and keep Trost away as well, make it The 3 Stooges.

  11. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Hank was there, he just wasn’t at the table.
    =============================
    Trying to keep him in the background?

  12. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Jeter was mad at somebody today . More the mgmnt. then the press IMO.

  13. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 December 7th, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    whoa jeter did not specifically blame anyone. He just said he was unhappy about how it all went down.

  14. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    I really don’t get the fascination with Crawford.

    I mean he would definitely be exciting to watch but for all the talk about how dynamic he is, he is actually a fairly limited player.

  15. ZMAN December 7th, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    “To pass on Matt Holliday last season only to sign Crawford this season for more money makes very little sense. ”

    I think they were happy with Swisher and wanted to give Gardner a chance to establish himself and didn’t want to tie themselves up in another long term deal to a guy who was 30.

    I also think they didn’t consider the rotation such a liability at this time last year. The collapse of Burnett from a #2 into an unknown and the implosion of Javy (and remember, there were many folks on this blog who said they’d re-sign Javy if he had a good yr to a short term deal rather then spend big $$ on a 32 yr old Lee) plus the uncertainty surrounding Andy now makes Lee much more important than they envisioned. And I don’t know if they envisioned Joba as a reliever-only last winter.

    It’d look very bad if they splurge $130 million on Crawford after passing on Holliday, the far superior player, but they might view it as a necessity if they lose out on Lee (i.e. needing to trade one of their OFs to acquire a starter). That is why I don’t believe any bravado from the Yanks about their limits on Lee. The Plan Bs look very ominous if we miss out on Lee, if they involve giving Crawford 100+ million and trading for a guy that probably won’t even be half of Lee.

    Giving Crawford $120+ million is absurd.

  16. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Jeter would never name names. For those who say he says nothing, he’s an honest guy. You just have to read between the lines.

  17. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    The only people Jeter should be mad at are his agent and himself.

    The Yankees made a very fair offer given Jeter’s production over two of the last three seasons (for whatever reason that occurred), probably 50% more than market value, yet his agent said he was “baffled.” That makes no sense and it poisoned the waters.

    Jeter should be made at himself for not producing big numbers in a contract year.

    Fortunately, the Steinbrenners are very magnanimous and rewarded Jeter very well anyway.

    I hope Jeter produces the way he thinks he should have been compensated. That would be a win-win for everyone.

  18. CB December 7th, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    blake-

    To me, the LF ship sailed last off season. That’s when the decision needed to be made. If anything since then Bret Gardner has only proved to be more valuable than projected.

    Matt Holliday’s skill set is what they need to stabilize this offense. He would fit perfectly. If you are going to spend that much on a LF you need to get a guy like Holliday.

    Forget about the notion of spending more on Crawford than you could have on Holliday last season.

    And even last season it was very clear that Holliday’s total package was a relatively good deal.

  19. Angelo Silecchio December 7th, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    i heard cashman on wfan today and he made it pretty clear when he thought jeter was done defensively, he was going to move him, no if and’s or but’s. he even compared this situation to when they signed tony womack, and decided it wasnt working and they moved him out for cano….i thought it was harsh comparing jeter to tony womack.

    http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/

  20. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    I thought the Womack analogy was pretty weak to, in the sense that it didn’t show his resolve to make a tough move.

    His comments on the catching situation were a lot more enlightening.

  21. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Why does everybody say Beltre or whomever is always great in their “walk” year derogatorily?
    Maybe Jeter was hurt this year. He is not about numbers, he is about winning.
    You ignore the past 15 years and use his one bad year against him?
    The Yanks might have been “fair” but they went low. Jeter went high because of the low offer. They met in the middle.
    If Jeter didn’t aim high, he would have gotten less.

  22. blake December 7th, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    CB,

    I agree. I think Crawford is a really good player but he’s not the type of player that goes with the contract he’s likely going to get. He’s a speed guy and is going to play the bulk of his next deal after the age 30. Once the speed starts to go then I’m not sure what you’ll be left with. 7/120 for Holliday doesn’t seem so bad now….

    I think you stand pat unless a trade materializes for an Upton, Kemp, Rasmus, etc.

  23. ac1 December 7th, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    yankees MAY have the edge on prior and wood with larry rothschild no? Was he in Chicago when they were there?

  24. Betsy December 7th, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    I’m glad they didn’t get Holliday. I’m not a big fan of Gardner, but yet another big bulky contract? No thanks.

  25. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 December 7th, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    even cashman admitted he “could improve on his bedside manner” a bit. Its not all on jeter’s agent. Jeter is allowed to be angry about how it went down. He’s a human being with feelings. What matters now is that everyone moves on. Can’t wait for april ( well march 31st!)

  26. Yogi Mantle December 7th, 2010 at 10:48 pm

    I think the interest that the Yankees MIGHT have with Crawford over Holliday is that they have seen Gardner more, and while he can hit decent enough, he is tentative on the bases, takes a while to get ready to steal, and has missed time due to injuries.

    Gardner is a very good fielder. Some of the plays he has made are outstanding. Crawford is a very good fielder as well, but seems to be far better at elevating the yips from the pitching when he is on base.

    Crawford is someone who would be a nice fit on the team, and his speed welcome.

    Holliday also might have hurt his market with his poor fielding the season before he hit FA. That along with his price and the economy changed things.

    It was as much a timing issue as much as anything else.

  27. Tom in N.J. December 7th, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Cashman, I think, tries to make a point about being detached from the players on a personal level, publicly at least.

  28. blake December 7th, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Rangers, Rockies Discussing Michael Young
    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 7 at 9:30pm CST]

    9:30pm: The Rockies have expressed interest in Young as a second baseman, according to Tracy Ringolsby of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Young last played second base in 2003 and the Rockies just acquired Jose Lopez as an option at second. The Rockies have a crowded infield, with Todd Helton, Troy Tulowitzki, Ian Stewart and, now, Ty Wigginton. Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News confirms (on Twitter) that the Rockies and Rangers are talking and says the Rangers would pursue Beltre if they trade Young.

    If they could move Young then Beltre would be a good fit with them….I’d imagine they’d have to kick in a good deal of cash though to the team they are trading him to and then turn around and give a big contract to Beltre….not exactly efficient use of funds.

  29. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Jeter is cryptic.
    His opening line was “I’ve never had one of these before.”
    He takes shots and those he takes them at know who they are.

  30. Betsy December 7th, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    Rich, Jeter made this a story now. It’s going to be in the papers tomorrow and then in ST ……………..His agent is the one who made the bonehead comment. This is probably the most down I’ve been on Jeter since he came up.

  31. Wave Your Hat December 7th, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    CB-

    Holliday does fit the team a lot better than Crawford, but that ship sailed when the Yanks took Teixeira the year before. Considering the Yanks won it all in 2009, it’s hard to argue the choice.

    Arguing Holliday is a better deal than Crawford may be, probably will be, true, but somewhat of a false choice where the Yanks are concerned, because Crawford isn’t coming here, even if they don’t get Lee. I was thinking they might be interested in Crawford as a Plan B, but the more I think about it, I don’t think he is. He will be extremely expensive, another long term commitment, and require trading Swisher or Granderson. It’s just too expensive and complicated to make sense as a Plan B.

  32. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 10:50 pm

    “Maybe Jeter was hurt this year. He is not about numbers, he is about winning.

    You ignore the past 15 years and use his one bad year against him?”

    It’s two out of three years. What he did even five years ago should have very limited relevance for how he will be paid over the next 3 to 4 years.

    “The Yanks might have been “fair” but they went low. Jeter went high because of the low offer. They met in the middle.”

    The market defines what’s high and low, and the market does not support the idea that the Yankees went low.

  33. CB December 7th, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    blake-

    The Nats would have been much better off throwing 150M at Holliday last season rather than 126 at Werth this season.

    Holliday is just a terrific ball player. His contract is very reasonable.

    Put him on the yankees this past season and he would have just transformed the way the offense worked. He would have been perfect for the issues they had.

  34. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    Betsy

    I’m not down on Jeter. He’s a prideful guy and it showed.

    If he feels he was wronged, then he can let his play do the talking.

    That would be the best outcome.

  35. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:52 pm

    The market does not apply to Jeter.

  36. blake December 7th, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    “This is probably the most down I’ve been on Jeter since he came up.”

    Why? Basically all he said in that press conference was that he always wanted to be a Yankee, never considered leaving, and that he was angry it became public….sounded like he was upset with both Cashman and Close over their comments to me. In fact, someone asked him that it was assumed that Close’s comments were made with his blessing and he said….”you shouldn’t assume”.

  37. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    It’s two out of three years.
    ==================That’s nonsense.

  38. Nick in SF December 7th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    It’s not easy to sit at a table when you’re all shot up with horse tranquilizer.

  39. Tom in N.J. December 7th, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    Meh, Jeter’s comments will be forgotten by Christmas.

  40. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 December 7th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    I dont see how anyone is down on jeter or the yankees after this. Jeter said he’s be lying if he didnt admit he was angry at times during the past few weeks. Omg he showed a human emotion? How dare he! The main thing is that both sides are fine now. They cleared the air, its over.

  41. Tom in N.J. December 7th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    Hank’s been hitting ketamine again?

  42. Betsy December 7th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    The Cards bid against themselves…….it was ridiculous.

    Rich, I still love Jeter – and of course I hope you’re right. I don’t think he’s done, but I don’t know how many years he has left.

  43. blake December 7th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    CB,

    Agreed. The Werth contract is bad and may wind up being horrific towards the end of it…..but I guess they felt that they had to make a move like this and overpay a player to get something started there.

    Holliday just became a FA at the worst possible time.

  44. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Mick

    ==================That’s nonsense.
    ___

    Facts don’t matter to you?

    Career OPS+: 119
    2008 OPS+: 102
    2010 OPS+: 90

    2009 OPS+: 125

    Two out of three years!!!

    Nonsense must have a different meaning for you than the dictionary definition.

  45. mick December 7th, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    What is meh? Where did that word come from?
    There are a few others like that, I can’t recall, but I don’t like them…

  46. blake December 7th, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Yankees, Rangers Finalists For Mark Prior
    By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 7 at 9:52pm CST]

    Cliff Lee isn’t the only pitcher the Yankees and Rangers are bidding against each other on. Those two clubs are the finalists for Mark Prior, according to Tom Krasovic of AOLFanHouse (on Twitter).

  47. Crawdaddy December 7th, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Meh!

  48. Tom in N.J. December 7th, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Meh, is from The Simpsons.

  49. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Jeter today was as articulate, polite, respectful and classy as I have ever seen him. He came out of this looking like gold and Yankee management like crap.

  50. CB December 7th, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Wave-

    The choice I was putting forth between the players was under the condition that the Yanks do go ahead and sign Crawford.

    I agree with you – I don’t see it happening. And part of why I don’t see it is that they already passed on Holliday.

    Also just for clarification – it’s more than understandable for them to pass on Holliday and I’m not saying that was a mistake.

    It will be a serious mistake however if they wind up throwing money at Crawford.

    It was very foreseeable last winter that the team very well need to upgrade it’s LF. The decision was made last off season regarding Crawford this season.

    “Plan B” with Crawford isn’t something that’s in the best interest of the team, IMO.

  51. Crawdaddy December 7th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    Wow, Jeter finally gives us a somewhat honest answer to how he felt about something and people are down on him. The guy can’t win with some people.

  52. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    “Jeter today was as articulate, polite, respectful and classy as I have ever seen him. He came out of this looking like gold and Yankee management like crap.”

    I suppose one can view the presser as a projective psychological test.

  53. NYY626 - Andy in 2011 December 7th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
    Jeter today was as articulate, polite, respectful and classy as I have ever seen him. He came out of this looking like gold and Yankee management like cra
    ———————————————————————-
    I really dont think this was meant to be a jeter vs. the yankees thing. Neither side came out looking like crap, IMO.

  54. Crawdaddy December 7th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    “Jeter today was as articulate, polite, respectful and classy as I have ever seen him. He came out of this looking like gold and Yankee management like crap.”

    Sorry, but I disagree about the Yankee management looking like crap. Why don’t you stop that Jeter fight is over with.

  55. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    I thought both sides came off looking fine at the press conference.

  56. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    Jeter has charisma.
    Funny how the haters are down on him.
    They just don’t get it.

  57. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:03 pm

    I was commenting based on a couple of opinions here.

  58. Tom in N.J. December 7th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    It’s down to the #Yankees and #Rangers on……..

    a minor league deal for Mark Prior.

    http://twitter.com/tomkrasovic.....4220003328

  59. SJ44 December 7th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Stop with your nonsense west coast.

    The Yankee management didn’t look like crap.

    Just because they didn’t give Derek Jeter the 100+ million dollar contract you and his agent wanted for him, doesn’t make them look like crap.

    Contract negotiations aren’t a loveliest. Feelings sometimes get ruffled.

    In the end, he’s signed and life goes on.

  60. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    I don’t think anyone hates Jeter.

  61. Crawdaddy December 7th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    “I thought both sides came off looking fine at the press conference.”

    There you go. They had a contract disageement until they came to an agreement.

    However, it appears some of us want to continue to discuss the disagreement that’s been resolved by the interested parties.

  62. Pat M. December 7th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Rich in NJ…You are not welcomed to Cooperstown in the year of 2020 for Derek’s Induction to The Hall…..Don’t sweat it Rich, after the past month you wouldn’t be alone……There’s only a few going to Upstate NY around the same time when Joe Torre gets his plaque……..In your case this is humor but for most of the blowing in the wind types here it sound strike a cord…..

  63. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    But you are right. Now I can continue to scratch my head about Mark Prior.

  64. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Anyone notice Girardi saying he has only 3 years while Jeter has more?
    It’s his job if he wants it , year 4.

  65. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    Pat M

    I hear you, but I actually like Jeter…Torre, not so much.

  66. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    SJ44 – it had nothing to do with the amount of the contract. Shall I post for you the numerous posts where I said that? I said all along it was “the process” I objected to, how Yankee management handled it. That is exactly what Jeter said today. I also said he would get four years and was ripped for that too.

  67. lounge lizard December 7th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    If the Montero-Lee deal had gone through, the Yanks would be looking at paying big money to extend Lee for this season and spending money to improve the every day lineup. They wouldn’t try to cover catcher and DH with the pieces in place. If the Yanks want to use having Montero as a reason not to spend money on Lee plus another piece, OK, they’re entitled. But the money is there.

  68. Crawdaddy December 7th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    WCYF,

    Just let it go. That negotiation is done with.

  69. Betsy December 7th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Rich, or a rohrshach test………….people just view things differently.

  70. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    If I am not mistaken Prior has not pitched in four years. Are they looking at him as a relief pitcher or a starter?

  71. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Letting it go…..ahhhhhh feels good. Thanks crawdaddy.

  72. Tom in N.J. December 7th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    The Yanks new pitching coach has worked w/ Prior.

    Can’t hurt to kick the tires on a MiLB deal…

  73. Wave Your Hat December 7th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    “If the Yanks want to use having Montero as a reason not to spend money on Lee plus another piece, OK, they’re entitled. But the money is there.”

    The problem is, you have to assess a player’s worth in the context of the team he is going to. Crawford just doesn’t provide the bang for the buck given the pieces the Yanks already have in place.

    The Yanks getting Crawford would be doing something just for the sake of doing something.

  74. SJ44 December 7th, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    Who cares what you think of the process.

    It’s never pretty negotiating contracts.

    BTW, stop mischaracterizing the deal.

    He has three guaranteed years. The 4th year is a player option for 9 million.

    The total AAV of the contract is nearly 40% under what he has averaged the last two years and he is STILL the highest paid SS in the game.

    In other words, it’s a very fair deal.

  75. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    For those of you who have ESPN Insider, Dan Szymborski has a very interesting article on why Cliff Lee is a good 7-year risk. He projected out the 7 years, one by one.

  76. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:15 pm

    The Yanks getting Crawford would ease the way for dropping Jeter down in the lineup.
    How can anyone say that getting a great ballplayer won’t help a team?
    You mean Gardner is nearly the equivalent of Crawford?
    Gardner is unproven and has a bad wrist.

  77. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    One thing is for sure.

    If the Yankees don’t get Lee, what Cashman does after that will be very, very interesting to see.

  78. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Yes, with a fourth year it is a fair deal.

  79. Wave Your Hat December 7th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    “You mean Gardner is nearly the equivalent of Crawford?”

    I mean Gardner and $18M is vastly better than Crawford. Crawford just doesn’t make the team that much better than the team with Gardner.

  80. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    LGY,

    Indeed.

  81. CB December 7th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Statistical projections for pitchers 7 years out are meaningless. All they are are exercises in subtraction.

    There’s no good way to project playing time. That’s by far the variable with the largest range of possible inputs. When they develop projections they put in estimates for innings played.

    But for pitchers those are besides the point due to the risk of catastrophic injury.

    And that’s the whole issue with the years on the contract in the first place.

    There’s no good way to bound the risk because the outcome is inherently uncertain.

  82. Wave Your Hat December 7th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    “If the Yankees don’t get Lee, what Cashman does after that will be very, very interesting to see.”

    If you like car wrecks.

  83. Pat M. December 7th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    It should strike a cord….GB school of typing……As for Matt Holiday, last year at this time there was maybe 10 people here hoping for his arrival in The Bronx…..The blog was just overwhelmed with how bad his splits were away from Coors…..I’m certain most never watched Matt play other than his enormous performance in October 2007, and his misplayed line drive in 2008….The guy is a top 10 player in the game…..I clearly recall Blake and CB & Jeers raving about him last December, but those accolades were drowned out about Coors Field

  84. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    Man, are we ever in a news vacuum.

  85. Mell December 7th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    “The Yanks new pitching coach has worked w/ Prior.”

    Was he riding shotgun while Dusty ran him into the ground?

  86. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    “…..I clearly recall Blake and CB & Jeers raving about him last December, but those accolades were drowned out about Coors Field”

    Phil the Thrill too.

  87. GreenBeret7 December 7th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    Who cares whether you’re happy about signing Prior or not. It’s the same sort of minor gamblr every team takes every year. It costs very little to see if Prior has anything. Maybe they end up with a swing man for the pen, or maybe an Aaron Small/Dustin Moseley and the pick up a half a dozen emergeny wins.

  88. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    I’d rather give Lee the 7th year (if that’s what it took) than to give Crawford 7 years. Hope they have to do neither but just sayin….

  89. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    You have no idea what Gardner will do next year and beyond. He has one full year behind him.
    He is coming off wrist surgery that has a low heal rate.
    If we didn’t have Gardner , esp gardner on the cheap, we then go after Crawford?
    Gardner is a 4th OF.

  90. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    If Pettitte doesn’t come back and we don’t get Lee (I still think we will) that will require major Cashman gymnastics and Hal’s checkbook. Sabathia, Hughes and Burnett. Ouch. You just have to keep on hoping Sabathia holds up, with his body and weight what it is and the high number of innings he has pitched the last few years.

  91. Mell December 7th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    “Who cares what you think of the process”

    Jeter apparently did.

  92. CB December 7th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    As an aside – Nolan Ryan constantly commenting on the Rangers and their personnel moves doesn’t bode well for their future.

    Daniels has done a great job there very quietly. They would be very silly to not just continue doing that.

  93. Wave Your Hat December 7th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    mick-

    If the Yanks were to get Crawford, which they won’t, Gardner would not be the one to go.

    Night all.

  94. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    “If you like car wrecks.”

    ———————-

    I am a sucker for reality TV ;)

  95. Pat M. December 7th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Who is projected to hit leadoff next season ????

  96. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    If the Yanks were to get Crawford, which they won’t, Gardner would not be the one to go.
    =======================================================
    He could be the 4th OFer or they could deal Swisher.

  97. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Looks like Matt Diaz is gone to the Pirates.

  98. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Even if Lee was 22 instead of 32 singing to a big money contract for 7 years would be a huge risk.

  99. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    I would bat Jeter leadoff v. LHP and Gardner leadoff v. RHP, at least to start the season.

  100. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:25 pm

    MTU also was a big Holliday supporter.

    I didn’t have a problem with them passing on him last year. Its just (as CB said), if they were going to upgrade the OF via free agency then they had a better opportunity to do it last year than this year. The need was greater and the player was better.

  101. Mell December 7th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    “You have no idea what Gardner will do next year and beyond.”

    Do we have this information on Crawford? I’d rather learn about whether Gardner can build on his 2010 improvement for half a million than drop $120M-$130M paying a guy who’s game is predicated entirely on his speed, into his mid-late 30′s.

  102. Bronx Jeers December 7th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    I’m watching the PC on YES.com.

    Nearly halfway through it and Jeter still hasn’t hasn’t gotten to the podium. Jason Zillo with the usual boring speech and intros that no one needs. Then Cashman gets the mike to put his BS spin on it and finally Girardi to introduce Derek.

    Loosen it up a little fellas.

  103. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    I don’t understand the recnt hangup over money.
    I understand they want to limit it , not to go to 250, then 300-400m, but it never seemed this prevalent.
    It seems like it is hamstringing them into less of a team.
    Meh!

  104. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    “Looks like Matt Diaz is gone to the Pirates.”

    I don’t think they need platoon partners for next year anyway. I think all 3 outfielders have proven that they should play every day. If for some reason that changes then they can make a deadline move.

  105. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    Here’s the projection:

    Year W L ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA+
    2011 16 7 3.01 30 30 215.1 204 72 15 29 179 136
    2012 15 7 3.08 28 28 204.2 196 70 15 28 165 133
    2013 14 7 3.21 27 27 196.0 190 70 15 27 153 127
    2014 13 6 3.17 26 26 184.1 179 65 14 25 144 129
    2015 12 6 3.29 23 23 167.0 164 61 14 24 129 124
    2016 10 6 3.47 21 21 147.2 149 57 13 21 113 118
    2017 9 6 3.63 18 18 129.0 133 52 12 19 97 113

    With these numbers (note: as projected by ZiPS for Lee at Nationals Park), the team should be very satisfied with a Lee signing. There’s obviously risk on the back end, as seen in those inning totals, but to get a pitcher the quality of Lee in the free-agent market, that’s the trade-off you have to make.

  106. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    multiple teams coming out of woodwork for cliff lee today. hard to see a resolution here this week for superstar pitcher. less than a minute ago via Twitter for iPhone

    So many mystery teams that Heyman has hired Scooby Doo and friends to investigate and hopefully find names.

  107. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    Do we have this information on Crawford?
    ———————————————
    He’s averaged 194 hits per season over 9 years.
    With our short porch he will hit 30 HR’s, speed won’t matter as much if he hits like that.

  108. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    I’d bet Crawford’s contract he would never hit 30 dingers.

  109. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Damon hit 20 HR with the RS and maxed out at 24 as a Yankee.

    Crawford’s high to this point is 19. 30 seems unlikely.

  110. Mell December 7th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    “He’s averaged 194 hits per season over 9 years”

    Really? That’s pretty impressive for a guy who has had more than 190 hits in a season once in his career.

    Don’t get me started on 30 homers.

  111. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 11:36 pm

    “It seems like it is hamstringing them into less of a team.”

    ———————–

    Spending money =/= better team.

    Sure, next year they would be better, but it is never just about one year.

    It would be about the next 7+ years.

  112. GreenBeret7 December 7th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    I don’t really care whether the Yanks sign Crawford or not after they sign Lee and bring Pettitte back for one year, but, to think that Gardner is going to match or get close to what Crawford provides is lunacy. Gardner in his best year will not come close to providing the extra base power as Crawford does. He may match the defense and base running, but, that’s where comparisons end. I’m not talking about the “bang for the buck” BS. I only care about wins. It’s up to the Steinbrenners and Cashman to be concerned about the financial part, not me.

  113. TheStraw December 7th, 2010 at 11:38 pm

    The ‘cuse putting the hurt on Sparty. Love it.

  114. Pat M. December 7th, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    Mick….If they cannot swing a trade for Upton, the Front Office better make a serious decision on signing Carl Crawford…….The game hasn’t seen someone like him since the days of Henderson / Tim Raines……The concern for me is that the club will be a little heavy from the leftside….Then again it’s Yankee Stadium…….30 dingers

  115. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    GB,

    That’s true but I think the argument is that if there is a finite amount of money to spend, then the 18-20 million that Crawford would cost more than Gardner could be used in other areas that would also help in winning games.

  116. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    Pat
    I’m afraid they will pass on Crawford for the same reasons they passed on Holliday.
    Hal is not the spender Dad was and certainly doesn’t get enfatuated with “Stars.”
    But they sure as heck will get what they want and they want Lee.

  117. Pat M. December 7th, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    Johnny Damon is not Carl Crawford guys

  118. GreenBeret7 December 7th, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    The Yankees have had a $205-$210 mil budget for years and have still found money under the sofa cushions to get what they need.

  119. mick December 7th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    I can see Hal passing on stars like Reggies and Catfish’s as they pass on by.
    Trying to get by with swishers and Gardners…meh

  120. Pat M. December 7th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    Blake…..Swisher will be gone, that’s 1/2 of Carl’s salary……Then Posada is gone…..All I know is that the Yankee’s need help in the top of the order……

  121. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:45 pm

    I wouldn’t shed tears if they signed Crawford….he’s a really good player and he would make them better, but I just think it would be an inefficient move for what he’ll cost.

  122. Mell December 7th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    “The game hasn’t seen someone like him since the days of Henderson / Tim Raines”

    On his greatest day, Crawford’s not fit to be Henderson’s caddie. He’s nowhere close to the offensive weapon Henderson was. He’s not the offensive player Raines was either.

  123. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    Hal is not the spender Dad was and certainly doesn’t get enfatuated with “Stars.”

    ————————-

    How did George’s wild spending work out from 2001-2008?

  124. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    Crawford is much better than Damon defensively and on the bases, but offensively, I think they are comparable, and Crawford has yet to demonstrate that he can have Damon’s HR power.

    At $15m a year for 5 years, I’m interested in Crawford. Over $100m, no.

  125. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    mick
    December 7th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    I’m afraid they will pass on Crawford for the same reasons they passed on Holliday.
    Hal is not the spender Dad was and certainly doesn’t get enfatuated with “Stars.”
    But they sure as heck will get what they want and they want Lee.

    *****************

    Brian Cashman said as much recently, alluding to Hal being more judicious with his money than his dad was. (paraphrasing)

  126. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Pat M,
    Swisher gone in a trade? How much better is the outfield in 2011 if you swap out Swish for Crawford? I’m holding out faint hope that they can make something happen with Towers ;)

  127. blake December 7th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    Tim Raines should be in the HOF.

  128. Mell December 7th, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    “Tim Raines should be in the HOF”

    Yes, he should.

  129. LGY December 7th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    I would much rather have Hal who is smart with who he will spend his money on than George that would spend wildly on anything and everything.

    Even if Hal has the purse strings tighter, the team is better off as a result with him in charge.

  130. Rich in NJ December 7th, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    When your owners spend $50m or so more than any other team, it’s hard to get down on them for what they spend. How they spend is another issue.

  131. RSM December 7th, 2010 at 11:52 pm

    “At $15m a year for 5 years, I?m interested in Crawford. Over $100m, no.”

    Agree

  132. RSM December 7th, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Carl Crawford is good, but he’s not in the same converstion with guys like Tim Raines or Ricky Henderson.

  133. raymagnetic December 7th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    “Rich in NJ says:
    December 7, 2010 at 11:05 pm
    I don’t think anyone hates Jeter.”

    Jerkface says hi! ;)

  134. stuart a December 7th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    do they need g-d/ jeters permission to move him down in the order?

    after all they do not want to disrespect him……

    we will see how he performs this year, hopefully it is great if not he should be big enough and the yanks smart enough to bat him lower in the order if it will help the yanks.

  135. dc in el cerrito December 7th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    # West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Letting it go…..ahhhhhh feels good. Thanks crawdaddy.

    ———————————————————————————–

    Are you sure you are posting on the right blog?

  136. West Coast Yankee Fan December 7th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    Agree about Tim Raines. When I was living in Colorado in 1980 working for the Forest Service I went to many Denver Bears games. It was quite a team to watch, they went 92-44. Tim Raines, Tim Wallach (36 home runs), Jerry Manuel, Randy Bass (37 home runs).

    Tim Raines had 77 stolen bases and hit .354 with a .439 OBP.

  137. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    They may not have always won under GMS, but, he tried and he ended up making the Yankees richest team in American sports because fans came to see his stars. hard to argue with that success. There are other big market teams that win and can’t claim that.

  138. LGY December 8th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Robbie didn’t jack 30 last year.

    Crawford? No way.

  139. Bronx Jeers December 8th, 2010 at 12:05 am

    I don’t think Crawford will get a contract 50 mil less than Werths.

    He could get more.

  140. jacksquat December 8th, 2010 at 12:07 am

    Cashman should start getting more demanding. No sense waiting while Lee’s agent screws around, while plan B options potentially disappear.

    Just put down the number he will pay and tell him he has 48 hours to shop it, then they are moving on.

  141. Pat M. December 8th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Now that the bell has ended the round and I survived being pumpled in the corner, my comment was Gentlemen, since the days of Henderson and Raines…..Ding ding, time for round 2

  142. GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Rather stupid to claim that Crawford’s not as good as Raines after only playing half the games as Raines. He’s got more than half the numbers in half the at bats as Raines. he’ll probably pass virtually everything that Raines has. And yes, like Santo and Blyleven, Raines should have been in the HOF long ago.

  143. Yogi Mantle December 8th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Oh man, the Brewers are close to signing Wil Nieves, another move the Yankees might have made moving off the boards.

    lol.

  144. Rich in NJ December 8th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    “Cashman should start getting more demanding. No sense waiting while Lee’s agent screws around, while plan B options potentially disappear.”

    Which Plan B option disappeared?

    I think Lee is Plans A, B, and C.

  145. Mell December 8th, 2010 at 12:13 am

    Pat M:

    Better comp was probably a healthy Jose Reyes.

  146. G. Love December 8th, 2010 at 12:14 am

    You guys have to be patient with Lee. The guy has been a virtual pinball the past 2 years. Cle to Philly to Seattle to Texas. He’s been waiting a long time for this chance to make this choice and get this deal and he is going to do it on his terms and timetable. Not Cashman’s.

    I liked a lot of what Cashman said today. Sounds like he has a lot of ideas of how to build the club for next season. It also sounds like he and Girardi aren’t afraid of moving Jeter down if he doesn’t hit next year.

    The worst thing they can do is go into next season with no changes.

    The moves are coming. I hope Lee is part of it. If he isn’t, I’m sure there’s a plan B and I’m fairly sure a lot of the prospects mentioned here all the time are going to be packing their things. If he can’t buy the pitcher he needs, he’s going to have to deal for him.

  147. RSM December 8th, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Thoughts?
    Besides Grienke, who else could Cash trade for?

  148. Bronx Jeers December 8th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    And he may get that 7th year. It doesn’t really make sense for him to sign quickly. His price isn’t going to get lower by waiting. It could get higher though. Does anybody really believe Pavano coming off the board is going to affect his market?

    And if that 7th year comes, I think the Yanks really need to think about offering CC a little extension to try and keep him from opting out. Another year at 23 may do the trick.

    He’s a nice guy that CC.

  149. LGY December 8th, 2010 at 12:23 am

    Curry

    # Braunecker said he spoke to Cashman about Cliff Lee tonight. Asked if Yanks made offer, the agent smiled and declined comment 5 minutes ago via Mobile Web

  150. pat December 8th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Free agency was an uncomfortable process for Derek because he experienced something he hasn’t in a long time- lack of control.

    Perhaps the short term hurt feelings were necessary for the overall good long term.

  151. Mell December 8th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    “Rather stupid to claim that Crawford’s not as good as Raines after only playing half the games as Raines”

    As stupid as ignoring the massive gap in OBP? Fine. Crawford’s played 8 full seasons. Thru Raines first 8 seasons, he was a much better offensive player than Crawford has been.

  152. Bronx Jeers December 8th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Most similar batters to Crawford at age 28.

    I like the name at the top of this list.

    1. Roberto Clemente (926) *
    2. Sam Crawford (907) *
    3. Sherry Magee (905)
    4. Cesar Cedeno (899)
    5. Tim Raines (897)
    6. Jimmy Sheckard (892)
    7. Johnny Damon (890)
    8. Whitey Lockman (886)
    9. Mike Tiernan (885)
    10. Ben Chapman (882)

  153. Pat M. December 8th, 2010 at 12:36 am

    Mell…..Good point…..

  154. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Holliday last off season vs. Crawford this one is apples to oranges.

    In Holliday’s only stint in the AL, he hit .286/.378/.832. There were concerns about him being either a product of Coors Field, the NL or both. It wasn’t so clear which direction he might go after his walk year. The Yankees weren’t sure if they signed him long term if they’d get more of the Oakland guy who struggled mightily to adjust to a bigger park and a different league or the St. Louis guy who raked and/or the Colorado Rockie with possibly inflated numbers. It was tricky to determine a true value for him.

    Besides, the Yankees were just coming off a World Series victory and merely looking to tweak their roster without making a big splash in the free agent market having already won it all due to their free spending just 1 year before. The formula had worked, so there was no reason for drastic change.

    Now it’s different.

    The 2010 team is not coming off a world series and therefore requires more drastic improvements. They struggled in August, September and October. The lineup was inconsistent with runners in scoring position. The offense finished 8th in batting average of 13 teams.

    Unlike Holliday who flopped in the AL, Crawford is a proven AL East all star. He’s a known commodity to the Yankees executives. The Yankees front office/scouts have seen him up close front and center so they know precisely how to value him on a long term contract and they can project his production with more confidence.

    Also, the economy is better now and teams have an idea of their spending ability in hard times now that 2010 has passed.

    Lots of different factors in play here.

    It’s not simply a matter of the stats on the back of Holliday’s baseball card vs. Crawford’s.

    The Yankees will sign Crawford along with Lee. This either or thing is a ruse. Mo and Jeter already signed backloaded deals with deferred money. Pettitte might not be coming back. The Yankees have been shopping Swisher and working on trades for the likes of Justin Upton to replace Swisher.

  155. jacksquat December 8th, 2010 at 12:39 am

    Rich in NJ December 8th, 2010 at 12:12 am
    “Cashman should start getting more demanding. No sense waiting while Lee’s agent screws around, while plan B options potentially disappear.”

    Which Plan B option disappeared?

    I think Lee is Plans A, B, and C.

    The longer this takes, the more players get signed, the less options there are.

    Lee doesn’t seem like the indecisive type, he pitchers faster than maybe anyone I’ve ever seen.

    But it seems his agent wants to play this game with mystery teams offering 7 years…

    Cash should just give Lee’s agent his best 6 year offer and be done with it.

  156. stuart a December 8th, 2010 at 12:40 am

    crawfors is much better the gardner that is obvious. but the yanks do not need crawford and should pass. if they traded swisher to make room for crawford there lefty dependence becomes even greater.

    the team does not need a allstar at every position. get cliff lee and call it a off season.

    lee, hughes, cc, hillbilly and ?

    montero, tex, cano, jeter, arod, gardner, grandy, swisher, and posada.

    addtl players are; cervelli, nunez, pena, and ? and ?

    pen more or less the same as last year with an addtl lefty out of the pen and a power arm or 2 from the minors…

    that will be a very strong team………

  157. SAS December 8th, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Other than Lee, my next step would be a catcher with experience. We have 3 good outfielders. Swish hit about 30 HR’s last season (I didn’t bother to look up the exact number) so I don’t want to give him up unless we get a HR hitter in return and Gardner is just fine in the field, and he can hit maybe not like Crawford, but he is many more millions of dollars less.

    The Yankees may also need 2 pitchers….I know just details.

  158. Rich in NJ December 8th, 2010 at 12:45 am

    “Cash should just give Lee’s agent his best 6 year offer and be done with it”

    At least from Cash’s public comments (for example, with Francesa today), I got the impression that Braunecker’s process hadn’t reached the point at which he was open to receiving offers (unless it was a blow away Werth-like offer, which the Yankees apparently aren’t interested in making).

    In light of Curry tweet that LGY posted, that may have changed tonight.

    I suspect we will know one way or the other about Lee within a few days.

  159. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 12:49 am

    Unlike Holliday who flopped in the AL, Crawford is a proven AL East all star.

    Hollidays 1 half a season of AL at bats was better than all but 1 of Crawfords offensive seasons in the Al east.

  160. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 12:56 am

    If you take away stolen bases and go strictly by OPS, true. If you subtract defense, true. Still, even though Holliday finished at .832 OPS, he only hit 11 HR’s in the AL in nearly half a season. Everyone in baseball was questioning whether he was a product of Coors Field. Compared to his status in the NL, he flopped here.

  161. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 12:57 am

    Hollidays 1 half a season of AL at bats was better than all but 1 of Crawfords offensive seasons in the Al east.

    Hah so you admit that Holliday is not a proven AL East all star!

  162. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 12:59 am

    Holliday went to a terrible park for hitters, and had trouble. In half a season. Then went to a pretty neutral offensive park in the NL and did well again. I don’t believe in that ‘NL/AL garbage’ for hitters of his caliber.

    The fact is Holliday has OPS’d .900+ every year for the past 5 years, Coors or No Coors. He would have been a beast in NYS with his opposite field power.

    Also Holliday hit 23 doubles in half a season, thats 5 less than Crawford’s 162 game average.

  163. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 12:59 am

    Bret,

    Yes OR Holliday had a bad couple of months. He’s been a great hitter for his entire career, why are you focusing on such a small stretch of time? He’s proven with St. Louis that his hitting ability isn’t tied to Coors.

  164. tyanksfan36 December 8th, 2010 at 1:01 am

    I am glad they re-signed Jeter, regardless of all the issues that came up in the past month.

    Personally, I only really care if we sign Cliff Lee and hope that Andy comes back. I can see Andy not coming back if we sign Lee cause he may not think he is needed as much but I really hope he decides to come back for one more year.
    As for Swisher, I don’t want them to trade him, he really has done well and if they get rid of him then my swisher shirt won’t be relevant anymore.

    And I don’t think we should dismiss Gardner. He just played his first full season. He was great imo. Maybe get with Kevin Long and learn to swing the bat a bit more instead of just watching strikes, but I really think he can get better with more experience.

  165. pat December 8th, 2010 at 1:07 am

    Ken_Rosenthal #Rangers’ Michael Young can block trades to 22 of 30 clubs, but NOT #Rockies. He can be sent to Rockies without his permission. #MLB

    I feel bad for Young. His 10-5 rights don’t kick in until May.

  166. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:09 am

    I feel bad for Young. His 10-5 rights don’t kick in until May.

    Wow that’s pretty rough. It’d be nice to get him out of the AL because he’s so damn good but I’d feel bad for the guy (despite the millions he makes every year). Why would Texas trade him anyways? Do they have someone that can take over 3B? He’s kind of the leader of their team too… weird..

  167. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:11 am

    .454 slugging in the AL vs. 649 career slugging at Coors Field.

    “Matt Holliday is a .357 career hitter at Coors Field, with 18.2 plate appearances per home run. Everywhere else, he is a .290 hitter with 31.1 plate appearances per homer. Look at it this way: At Coors Field, Matt Holliday is Ted Williams. Elsewhere, he’s basically Mike Greenwell.”

    http://sports.espn.go.com/bost.....id=4624797

  168. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 1:14 am

    Holliday as a Cardinal: .353 .419 .604 1.023
    .312 .390 .532 .922

    Crawford is a career .289 .330 .430 .759 hitter away from the Trop, oh no!

  169. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:15 am

    I’m not saying Holliday is a product of Coors Field. I’m saying his campaign in Oakland raised too many questions and risks about making long term commitments at big slugger dollars in a down economy coming off a World Series Championship.

    There was a significant gap between Holliday’s .454 slugging in the AL and .649 slugging at Coors Field.

    He hit 11 in 93 games in Oakland and he wanted slugger money.

  170. Rich in NJ December 8th, 2010 at 1:15 am

    TX trying to free up money for Lee?

  171. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 1:16 am

    He hit 11 in 93 games in Oakland and he wanted slugger money.

    And now Crawford wants slugger money and is not a slugger. Pass. Crawford would have been nice on a Damon type deal. Not a 7 or 8 year megadeal.

  172. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:17 am

    You keep comparing him to Crawford.

    The question on the Yankees minds in the 2009 off-season was, is Holliday a 20 HR hitter in the AL who wants to be paid as a 40 HR hitter or is he a legimate power hitter no matter where he plays.

    You seem to forgot.

    The question was, at the time, whether his AL numbers were significant or not despite the small sample size.

  173. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:18 am

    So Bret are you saying you’d rather have Crawford over Holliday?

    I like Crawford too but come on man, Holliday is a far more complete player. There really isn’t a flaw in his game. Hits for high average, high OBP, lots of power, doesn’t really strike out a lot, he’s a good fielder, he can steal a base here and there, stays healthy. Heck, the more I look at his stats and think about his game the more I wish the Yankees had signed him last year!

  174. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    And for the record, I wanted them to sign Holliday. MTU and I were his biggest fans.

  175. pat December 8th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    Free money for Lee was my fist thought but the rumor is they would sign Beltre to play 3B.

  176. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    TX trying to free up money for Lee?

    Huh.. I never thought of that. Maybe if they are trying to deal Young you are right?

  177. AldotheApache December 8th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    And on a slightly related note to the “tulowitzi is the best SS in the game” contingent … he hits for a 40-50 point higher BA at Coors field also.

    Not saying he not a good SS, just that Coors Field inflates his numbers, just like it’s done with many others in the past.

  178. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:21 am

    Patrick,

    In a vaccuum, no. I’m not saying at rather have Crawford over Holliday.

    I’m merely applying context to their free agencies to explain maybe why the Yankees were hesitant to sign Holliday and maybe more aggressive with Crawford now even though he is the inferior player.

  179. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:21 am

    The question was, at the time, whether his AL numbers were significant or not despite the small sample size.

    Well clearly the answer is that he rakes anywhere he goes, as he proved with St. Louis. Even last offseason most of the question marks were cleared up after the great second half he had in 2009.

    Also, don’t forget that he signed a GREAT deal. The market was bad last year and his contract reflects that. Now that owners have money saved up and of course with Werth’s deal, Crawford will cost probably more than Holliday. Which is totally INSANE

  180. AldotheApache December 8th, 2010 at 1:22 am

    Based on the kind of money any agent in his right mind would ask for Crawford on the heels of the absolutely RIDICULOUS contract Werth got … I say pass.

  181. dc in el cerrito December 8th, 2010 at 1:23 am

    TX may want to make a run at Beltre

  182. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:23 am

    No crap Patrick. You’re missing my points.

    People bash me for repeating myself on here.

    So I don’t mean to be rude when I say go back and read what I’m saying.

  183. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:25 am

    Bret, I hear you but I think your logic is flawed. Here’s how I see it.

    Holliday is better than Crawford. Hands down.

    The Yankees had money to spend on an OF last year. This year most of their budget will be dedicated to pitching.

    Holliday’s contract is more team friendly than what Crawford will get.

    When Holliday was a FA our LF situation was a lot more up in the air. Now we’ve gotten a year out of Gardner where he’s proven he can be an above average starting LF. When Holliday was an FA nobody knew for certain if Gardner could do that.

    Holliday is a right handed hitting power hitter, something that the Yankees could use in the OF. Crawford is a left handed hitting non-power hitter, something the Yankees already have in the OF.

    I really think all the evidence points towards the Yankees NOT going after Crawford

  184. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:26 am

    Bret,

    I’m not bashing you…

  185. SAS December 8th, 2010 at 1:28 am

    I don’t know where the Michael Young news came from, but he killed the Yanks or so it seemed.

  186. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:32 am

    Patrick,

    While I agree they will sign Lee, I think they will do more to improve the consistency of the offense. Yes, I’m aware they led the league in runs but they were inconsistent and it hurt them in the post season. They need more contact hitters and Crawford is a .300 hitter in his prime. He’s a far more complete player than Gardner and a clear upgrade. I’m not talking dollar for dollar. I’m talking talent-wise. Besides, Gardner has these wrist issues now. I just don’t think the Yankees will ignore the offense.

  187. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:35 am

    And I think the Yankees are looking at Gardner’s second half numbers as well and there’s cause for alarm in that trend. He hit .230. He has proven to be basically an automatic out in the playoffs. 0 hits in 2009 post season play and this line in 2010

    .185 .258 .185 .443

  188. Pat M. December 8th, 2010 at 1:39 am

    Bret…..I wish I knew how to pull up the transcripts from last winter, however I do know that there were only a few of us calling for Holliday…..I always thought that once Cashman secured Granderson that was that, plus with Crawford on the horizon that was the direction the Front Office was leaning towards……I understand getting Upton is a long shot, but one thing is for certain, the club needs a legit leadoff hitter going forward…..That could be the reason why they may pursue Carl…….

  189. UnKnown December 8th, 2010 at 1:40 am

    I sure hope that after today Heyman’s twitter account will be deactivated overnight and he will not have access and the ability to play fairytale land again all day tomorrow.

  190. BJK December 8th, 2010 at 1:44 am

    Crawford doesn’t like leading off:

    “I just thought I (stank) at it, to be honest with you,” Crawford says. “Lou (Piniella) put me second. Maybe I could have gotten better at it, but I just wasn’t comfortable. It didn’t have anything to do with stats. I just don’t think I’m a good leadoff hitter.”

  191. pat December 8th, 2010 at 1:46 am

    Carlos Pena is a Cub.

  192. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:46 am

    Bret,

    I think Gardner’s second half can be attributed to his wrist injury which is now fixed. I also think Brett is your leadoff hitter until Jeter can prove that his 2010 was a fluke, even then I think Gardner might stick at leadoff.

    I also think that the offense can be addressed with internal options. Cashman is saying over and over that Posada is the full-time DH which will improve the offense in two ways. The first being that as DH, Jorge will stay healthy and be more of a factor at the plate. Second, it looks pretty obvious to me that the best option at starting catcher is Jesus Montero. If you get Montero in the lineup every day, that’s a huge boost to the offense.

    Finally, I do think Cashman will explore other options to improve the outfield. If a good trade comes along he will pull the trigger. I don’t think Crawford is an option here because of what he will likely get on the open market. The money just isn’t worth the upgrade he gives you over Granderson or Gardner.

    I think a lot of your reasoning for signing Crawford is predicated on your opinion of Brett Gardner which is painfully obvious at this point.

  193. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:49 am

    Pat M.

    I just don’t feel Brett Gardner has the skill/ability to make counteradjustments to major league pitchers. His 2nd half and his disappearing act in the playoffs probably have the Yankees front office thinking upgrade. Crawford is a legit leadoff caliber player. When you factor in his speed, his defense, his sound fundamentals like bunting and moving the runner, his high contact rates, his developing power that plays well in a HR park like YS…I think he’ll come into his own here. Let’s not forget he’ll be surrounded by far more talent in this lineup vs. the Rays. He’s also a character guy (not saying Holliday is not one). That seems to matter with the big contracts being dished out lately and with Cash’s trade targets.

    I think they’re shopping Swisher because they want to free up more spending money to fit in Crawford and Lee.

    Utpon is my top choice to replace Swisher.

    I hope he’s the guy.

    There are certainly plenty of trade chips to upgrade RF, get younger, better and cheaper out there.

  194. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 1:55 am

    I just don’t feel Brett Gardner has the skill/ability to make counteradjustments to major league pitchers. His 2nd half and his disappearing act in the playoffs probably have the Yankees front office thinking upgrade.

    Look at the splits

    .309 .396 .415 .811
    .232 .364 .330 .694

    We know in July he hurt his wrist. From that point on he hit dismally but increased his isolated discipline by nearly 45 points. All he could do was foul pitches off and hit some dunkers here and there. Its pretty obvious the injury affected him, so he became even more patient, fouled off pitches he would have put in play in the 1st half, and walked more.

    So even with pitchers ‘figuring him out’ they still put him on base more than league average. That isn’t really figuring him out. Thats pitching scared of him.

  195. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 1:56 am

    Crawford disappeared in the playoffs for most of his career and 2010. Can he not make adjustments? Is he pitchable?

    Gardner barely got any ABs in 09 and was injured in 2010 and still worked pitchers.

    If gardner were truly incapable of making adjustments he would not have had such a sensational first half of 2010. The tape would have been out on him from 08 and 09.

  196. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 1:59 am

    Gardner was a lot better than I thought he would be. His fielding in particular was spectacular last year. I also didn’t expect him to OBP as high as he did, and even his batting average exceeded expectations when he was healthy. If he can stay healthy next year I think a lot of people will be shocked at just how good he is.

  197. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 1:59 am

    You can cite all the numbers in 1000 different ways but the Gardner’s swing is what has me convinced lacks the capacity to make counteradjustments.

    And if you want to attribute his second half flop and playoff flop to his wrist, then his wrist is also a concern.

    Again I will say that I doubt the Yankees front office ignores this offense. Gardner and Swisher are automatic outs in the playoffs. Even without the wrist issues, Gardner stunk in the 2009 post season.

  198. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 2:02 am

    When you remove money from the equation, equating Gardner with Crawford is homerism.

    Would you be upset if Crawford is our LF next year in place of Gardner and Gardner is the 4th OF or traded?

    That should be an easy question to answer.

  199. Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 2:04 am

    too tired now.

    Goodnight.

    Back at it again tomorrow.

  200. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 2:05 am

    And if you want to attribute his second half flop and playoff flop to his wrist, then his wrist is also a concern.

    He OPS’d 1.33 in the ALCS, and had only 10 Abs in the WS. Lets not overstate. Anyone can suck in 10 ABs. And his wrist IS a concern. He has to really work hard and keep his good mojo going next season.

    And Gardners swing was awesome in the first half, he took hard heaters where he was pitched, going opposite field quite often and when he had to he pulled the ball. He slugged higher than Jeter (130 points higher) when pulling the ball in 2010.

  201. Nick in SF December 8th, 2010 at 2:06 am

    I will be up$et if they sign Crawford. :mad:

  202. Jerkface December 8th, 2010 at 2:06 am

    When you remove money from the equation, equating Gardner with Crawford is homerism.

    Would you be upset if Crawford is our LF next year in place of Gardner and Gardner is the 4th OF or traded?

    Uh yea money is a huge part of Gardner’s value. You can’t take that away. If I could have Crawford for the price of Gardner I would take it.

    I would probably be moderately upset if Crawford was in LF and Gardner was traded. Less so Crawford in LF and Gardner 4th OF.

    Depends on the contract too, Crawford is going to get a stupid deal from the Angels or someone worse.

  203. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 2:07 am

    Bret,

    Now you aren’t reading what I post! Come on dude.

    I already said that the offense IS getting addressed. The catcher and DH positions are getting upgraded from within

  204. Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 2:12 am

    Would you be upset if Crawford is our LF next year in place of Gardner and Gardner is the 4th OF or traded?

    Yes I would be upset. It would mean that the Yankees spent too much on Crawford.

  205. BJK December 8th, 2010 at 2:36 am

    Crawford:

    -Doesn’t hit lefties. (Swisher does, no upgrade from Gardner)
    -Won’t play centerfield. (Gardner does allowing more roster flexibility)
    -Doesn’t like to hit lead-off.
    -Will cost at least 36X more than Gardner next year.

    Pass.

  206. sevrox December 8th, 2010 at 4:35 am

    All the screen-starers and no-lives just don’t get it, consistently ignoring the obvious – this directly from Jeter himself:

    “The perception is that this has been a month-long negotiation,” Jeter said “But the negotiations pretty much started last week. Once everything got started, it really didn’t take that long. People were assuming what was going on, that I was making salary demands. Some of them were pretty funny, what people said I was demanding. It just wasn’t true.”

    So a month ago everybody was whipping themselves into a frenzy with media-created drivel and there was NOTHING GOING ON negotiation-wise. Congrats!

    And the Yankees already have a left-fielder who was putting up astronomical numbers prior to getting injured – his name? Brett ‘Freakin’ Gardner.

    I would not mind the Yanks passing on Lee – seems like everybody has pushed the panic button. If they were to bring up a couple of young studs to work into the rotation this year, I wouldn’t mind the development-watch – but 85% of the folks on this board would be prostrate on a therapist’s couch by mid-June. A trade or two for a starter? Whatever it takes – utilize the resources down on the farm before committing $23M per annum to yet another mercenary.

  207. Mike Ri December 8th, 2010 at 6:42 am

    Via Joel Sherman, the Yankees and free agent right-hander Mark Prior have mutual interest in what would surely be a minor league deal. Prior has not yet worked out for the team, though they have scouting him during his various independent league stints over the years. Prior did through one inning in Triple-A this past September (for the Rangers), his first action in affiliated ball since 2006.

    We did ok with Kerry Wood ?? .. Its not a bad move if its a minor league deal… it can’t hurt

  208. Mike Ri December 8th, 2010 at 6:47 am

    One more report on Prior from Rotoworld.com

    According to Tom Krasovic of AOL Fanhouse, Mark Prior will sign a minor league contract with either the Rangers or Yankees.

    Prior signed a minor league contract with the Rangers towards the end of the 2010 season and pitched one scoreless inning with Triple-A Oklahoma City. The now 30-year-old right-hander hasn’t pitched in the big leagues since 2006, but hopes to resurrect his career as a relief pitcher.

  209. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 6:56 am

    Happy Birthday to Alfredo Aceves, here’s hoping #91 makes it back healthy, and shows he can still be a big part of the Yankees BP.

    Look for Alfredo to be given a MiLB deal, and be on the SWB roster.

  210. upstate kate December 8th, 2010 at 7:05 am

    Big Al
    please pass along our best wishes to Ace, and our hopes that he remains in pinstripes

  211. Doreen December 8th, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Big Al -

    I second upstate kate’s request. :)

    Good morning, morning people.

  212. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:11 am

    kate -

    I’ll be happy to do so.

    It’s cold here in the south, it must be worse by you.

  213. Bronx Jeers December 8th, 2010 at 7:13 am

    George King from the Post writes that CC said that Lee’s upcoming mega deal won’t affect him at all in terms of opting out.

    A player that isn’t looking for more money? Maybe CC is that guy but if I’m his agent? Well there’s a lot of time between now and then.

  214. Gary December 8th, 2010 at 7:13 am

    Just read a few articles to catchup on the day. Additional comments made that it is more likely now that Andy will retire, and 2 clubs offering Lee 7 years, plus Nolan Ryan is feeling more confident in resigning him. Given the mess that the Yanks SP is in it doesn’t exactly make you feel supper confident.

    Probably a good move that Cashman signals he’s ready to make an offer. Maybe it gets some feeling about where Lee’s head might be at right now, and what timetable he is on. I think the longer this drags out the more counter productive it is for the Yanks. There isn’t that other big name pitcher out there as a FA, so if Lee doesn’t come they need a full speed ahead on Crawford before he’s gone to.

  215. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:14 am

    I’ll be happy to collect all the good wishes, and pass them along.

    It’s been a rough year, and I’m sure he’ll appreciate hear from his fans.

  216. Fran the original December 8th, 2010 at 7:14 am

    Good morning everyone :)

  217. Gary December 8th, 2010 at 7:14 am

    Big Al 39 here this morning in Florida where we are at

  218. upstate kate December 8th, 2010 at 7:15 am

    Al
    we got a bit more snow overnight, and it is about 14 degrees this am, so winter weather for sure!

  219. Gary December 8th, 2010 at 7:16 am

    Kate are you upstate NY, I came from Rochester

  220. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:17 am

    Jeers -

    Perhaps CC is one of those rare players that believe in living up to the terms he agreed to. Yes, I realize he can opt out, but, at what point does his belief in who he is as a person, get taken over by greed.

  221. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:20 am

    kate -

    Don’t feel bad, it’s 16 here in NC. We are in the mist of a terrible cold snap. The weather man said we’ll be back to the mid to upper 50′s by Friday, it’ll feel like summer.

  222. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:21 am

    MTU -

    Are you hiding in the bushes?

  223. upstate kate December 8th, 2010 at 7:23 am

    sounds like colder than usual for you guys, more typical for me this time of year, so I can’t really complain

    Gary
    I am about as far north as you can be w/o being in Canada

  224. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:26 am

    kate -

    I have a sister that lives in Lake Placid, so I’m familiar with winters in your part of the world. Long, hard winters, followed by short summers.

  225. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 7:26 am

    Al-

    I lurk.

    How are you today ?

  226. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:28 am

    MTU -

    OK, other than the normal lack of sleep.

    I hope Cashman truly has some irons in the fire, it seems more and more options are coming off the board. Your guy Diaz is gone.

  227. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 7:31 am

    Al-

    I am absolutely certain Cash is multi-tasking. No doubt whatsoever in my mind.

    Yeah. Too bad about Diaz. Last year it was Holliday. Of course, I am not making any comparison there. Just saying I was interested in both.

  228. JCPD December 8th, 2010 at 7:33 am

    BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:11 am
    kate -

    I’ll be happy to do so.

    It’s cold here in the south, it must be worse by you.

    ——————————————————–

    Quit your whining………… come on up and enjoy the great white north up here!!!! :-)

  229. MaineYankee December 8th, 2010 at 7:33 am

    Big Al

    It’s good to hear that about Ace.

    I really hope he can make a succesful return.

    He was a real asset and was sorely missed this year.

  230. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 7:34 am

    it was last season I learned the painful lesson that no matter how much a guy is rumored to have always loved the idea of being a Yankee.

    99 out of 100 times it’s the Benjamins that decide where they wind up.

    Matt Holliday was a perfect example of that.

    I will never buy that crap again.

  231. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:35 am

    JCPD -

    I hear the weather is rather balmy by you, lol.

    I’m waiting for those pictures of you making snow angels in the drifts.

    Get the new camera yet?

  232. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:37 am

    Maine -

    I think that’s the plan at this point, but, there are several factors that could change between now and ST, we’ll see what live brings us.

  233. upstate kate December 8th, 2010 at 7:38 am

    Al
    I used to live in Saranac Lake, right next door to Lake Placid, or Lake Plastic as we called it

    JCPD
    do you have Orange fever? great b’ball game by ‘Cuse last night.

  234. JCPD December 8th, 2010 at 7:38 am

    The camera came yesterday. Can’t wait to start playing with it, but that might have to wait a bit. Driving home tonight after work tonight just to check on the place. Lot’s to learn with the new job. The company standard procedures manual is 791 pages!!!

  235. blake December 8th, 2010 at 7:38 am

    MTU,
    How are you today, I think the Yankees would have signed Holliday for 5/100 which would have been a steal in this years marketplace. The Cards beat that by a good bit because they really had to. Thems the breaks I guess.

  236. Bronx Jeers December 8th, 2010 at 7:39 am

    BIG AL,

    Depending on how he pitches this season, he could be looking at a significant raise. I’d say it at least another year if salary at 23 mil. It’s gotta be hard to walk away from that. We’ll see.

    And please pass my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I’ve always been a fan. Seriously, is one was to look in the archives for the date of his first start, they’d find me very excited about his abilities and especially about his toughness.

    ” Sin Miedo ” – Without Fear. I believe that was the nickname we eventually decided was fitting for him.

    And that’s why I truly believe we definitely have not seen the last of him.

  237. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:40 am

    MTU -

    You and I are true to our team, and if offered league minimum, we’ll both show up at ST ready to go. No need to roll out the red carpet, we’re team players, it won’t take millions to get us to be a Yankee.

  238. JCPD December 8th, 2010 at 7:40 am

    Yes, was a nice game by ‘Cuse last night. But as usual, about 14 games in they’ll have their rough patch I’m sure.

  239. Mell December 8th, 2010 at 7:41 am

    “Perhaps CC is one of those rare players that believe in living up to the terms he agreed to.”

    In what way would opting out = not living up to the terms he agreed to?

  240. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:42 am

    Jeers -

    Thanks, I plan on passing along all the good wishes at the end of the day. I know he’ll read each one, he still has a good right arm.

  241. JCPD December 8th, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Alfredo, come on home!!!!!!

  242. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Blake-

    That was not a good experience me as you know but it sure taught me a life lesson I should have already known.

    Al-

    I’m nothing if not loyal.

    JCPD-

    The company figured you needed something to keep you busy while you were away is all.

  243. Gary December 8th, 2010 at 7:46 am

    Actually I’m going to a Hockey Game here in Fl tonight. We do have winter sports down here.

  244. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:47 am

    Mell -

    Perhaps not well stated by me. What I meant, I believe CC will not take advantage of the opt out clause, and be true to the original $$$ he signed for. The opt out clause was put in mainly so he could leave, if he were not happy in NY.

    I don’t believe, as CC stated yesterday, that if Lee signs for more money, he’ll opt out just to get a larger contract. He doesn’t feel the need to be top dog in salary to be happy.

  245. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 7:49 am

    Carl Crawford is so far from what the Yanks NEED.

    It’d be a shame if the Yanks felt compelled to spend $150M+ simply because they lost out on what they really needed – pitching (Cliff Lee.)

    Crawford would improve any team he goes to.

    But he wouldn’t improve the Yanks as much as he would cost the Yanks in $$ and more importantly, the opportunity costs of that money.

    $20M/year could get the Yanks some elite bullpen arms, a solid hitter next offseason, a pitcher… who knows.

    But for once the Yanks don’t have glaring holes in the lineup (except maybe C )

    Spending money, on top of their already $200M, for the sake of spending money, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

  246. Gary December 8th, 2010 at 7:49 am

    JCPD they seem to hit that rough patch when they start the Big East schedule. Always a team(s) that just plays lights out against them and they in turn lay an egg.

  247. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 7:50 am

    Blake-

    Who would you rather have cc or Upton ?

    Let’s stipulate that you do not have to part with Montero, Phil or ManBan, and that cc costs well over 100 mill.

    I think I know but i just want to hear you say it.

  248. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 7:51 am

    Yanks should get Alfredo back. He’s proven he can be very good when healthy… of course he might not be.

    What a steal he could be for another team if/when he returns to 100%.

    Sign Alfredo already!

  249. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:53 am

    JCPD -

    All this talk about big contracts, how does it feel to be on the top looking down. I can say I knew you when. Hope all is going well. Sounds like you’re going back to school, lots of home work. Safe drive back.

  250. blake December 8th, 2010 at 7:53 am

    MTU,

    Upton and its really not close. Sadly I don’t know if Towers is going to part with him this winter……but you never know.

  251. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Good point Mell :)

  252. JCPD December 8th, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Gary, you’re right. They usually always have a pansy a** non conference schedule for the most part. That’s why I always have respect for a team like Michigan State who always schedule a tough non conference schedule.

  253. Gary December 8th, 2010 at 7:54 am

    Carl Crawford is so far from what the Yanks NEED.

    _______________________________________________________________

    BD, repectfully I disagree. Our OF is average at best and their play in the playoff’s was pretty miserable. In hindsight maybe Damon would have not made a difference, but I think his production could of gotten us something more than we got.

    Crawford has it all power, speed, average. He obviously brings more than any of our regular OF does today. He would have to help the ballclub

  254. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 7:56 am

    Blake-

    We have the power to force his hand. It’s just a matter of wether Cash wants to pull the trigger on what’s required.

    I have no idea if he feels the need and is committed at this point.

    We’ll find out eventually.

  255. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 7:57 am

    Just asking -

    is it fair to doubt Justin Upton at least a little bit because his brother BJ has been mostly a bust so far in his career?

    I know they are different and Justin was considered the better of the two. Maybe it’s a ridiculous question.

    But does it even come into consideration?

  256. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 7:57 am

    Blake-

    It’s also pretty obvious the Yankees are head over heals for cc.

  257. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 7:59 am

    MTU -

    Cashman can’t pull the trigger on an Upton deal, unless he has Lee signed. If we don’t get Lee, Cash will need those trade chips for a SP.

  258. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:00 am

    Gary,

    That’s fine.

    I did say Crawford would help ANY club he went to.

    I just believe the opportunity costs outweigh the added value that he’d bring over the current OF.

    Adding Lee, for example, would fill a much larger hole, than the hole Crawford fills.

    I believe adding Scott Downs and a couple solid bullpen arms would even prove more valuable than Crawford.

    But he would help them, no doubt. Maybe just not $140M worth.

  259. Mell December 8th, 2010 at 8:00 am

    Big Al:

    Respectfully disagree. If the Jeter negotiations showed us anything, it’s that this is a business. Accordingly, nobody, least of all the Yankees, should be surprised if Sabathia treats it as one and exercises his right for an opportunity at age 31 that quite likely won’t be there for him at age 35.

  260. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Al-

    I believe he may enough to do both.

    But you are certainly correct that it would be easier if Lee was in the fold first.

  261. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:01 am

    MTU,

    Towers may be demanding one of those players you mentioned though….we just don’t know. He is going to shoot for the moon if he trades him…..otherwise it makes no.sense.to do it. We will see.

  262. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:02 am

    Have to agree with Mell.

    But I hope CC doesn’t hot the “free” market.

    Maybe they can work out a fair extension before the opt out could occur.

  263. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:02 am

    Blake-

    He might be. I would also include Manny if needed but the other 2 are off limits IMO.

  264. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:03 am

    *hit the free market

  265. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 8:04 am

    BD -

    I take Crawford over Upton because Crawford is a proven talent, Upton is still a guy with high upside and I still consider a prospect. Also, Upton has had shoulder problems the past 2 seasons, and missed the last month + last year. A player with shoulder problems , with a violent swing, could spell trouble. If you give up too much of our farm prospects for Upton, and you have needs come ST break, that’s less chip to work with. And, Crawford costs $$$, not prospects.

  266. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:05 am

    Gary,

    You really think Gardner, Grandy, and Swish are “average at best” ?

    It’s not the Texas OF but still…

  267. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:05 am

    MTU,

    Yea I don’t know if they are super interestedin Crawford or just want to keep that option open to both push Lee and as a backup option.

    I personally would rather give Lee the 7th year than commit 7 or 8 years to Carl Crawford. Neither is really ideal, but they need Lee a lot more than they need Crawford. I hope thy don’t have to give Lee 7 years but if that’s what it takes then I would prefer that to balking then turning around and giving it to Crawford.

  268. Mell December 8th, 2010 at 8:06 am

    BD:

    Sure seems like Sabathia is happy here and that the Yankees are happy with him. Even if he were to opt out, I’d see the Yankees as the heavy favorite to retain his services. I don’t see him leaving, but I do see him trying to turn the remaining 4 years on his deal (after 2011) into 6 or 7.

  269. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Yankees will not sign Downs, too much money, and he’ll cost draft picks, and next year the draft should be loaded with very good talant.

    Cashman seems to always want to go cheap on BP and bench players.

  270. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Al-

    I agree that for the moment cc is the proven performer and only costs $.

    But keep this in mind.

    Upton is a 5 tool guy. He is right-handed. He is very young.

    And he has 30-40 dinger potential.

    Couple that with a Kevin Long tutorial and it just makes my mouth water.

    Just sayin’.

  271. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:08 am

    Big Al,

    For the record,

    I am way against a mega-trade for Upton.

    Why pay full price for a guy who is really still just “potentially” a superstar?

    I think he’s a super talent, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t think you’d be “buying low” so it’s too risky to me.

    I think the Yanks offense is just fine for 2011 minus the bench.

  272. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:09 am

    blake-

    If that’s my choices I’m with you.

    However, I think there are other options.

    :)

  273. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:10 am

    “Yankees will not sign Downs, too much money, and he’ll cost draft picks, and next year the draft should be loaded with very good talant.”

    ——–

    Crawford costs $150M, a draft pick, and all the players the Yanks can’t sign in the future…

    but Downs costs too much money?

    Lol

    p.s. He costs draft pick, not picks – and if they sign Lee it’s just a 2nd rounder

  274. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:11 am

    Also keep in mind that Upton is 23 and wont make 10 million dollars until 2014 when he will be entering his prime. By that time Crawford will be 33, making 20 million, and exiting his prime with a game primarily speed based (yikes).

  275. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 8:12 am

    MTU -

    I agree about Upton’s potential, but, in the back of my mind, his should problems make me ? whether or not I want to give away as much talant it would cost to obtain him.

  276. Mell December 8th, 2010 at 8:12 am

    “Cashman seems to always want to go cheap on BP and bench players.”

    He does tend to start the season that way, but he’s constantly proven he’ll pony up for improvements at midseason.

  277. Yankee Trader December 8th, 2010 at 8:14 am

    Good morning all-

    From ESPN.com:
    Three weeks ago, he was the most talked-about trade chip at the annual general managers meetings. But by Tuesday, it was all but official: Justin Upton isn’t going anywhere. Trade talks involving the Diamondbacks’ 23-year-old right fielder have “just about died,” a source familiar with the discussions told ESPN.com. While Arizona will still listen, the source said, the club is no longer motivated to trade him because it has begun filling some of the holes it would have plugged by dealing Upton.”

  278. Mike Ri December 8th, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Thank You for that Post Yankee Trader. . Hopefully these Upton rumors will finallydie …. i’m sure they’ll be back mid season …. ughhhhh

  279. MaineYankee December 8th, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Going for Upton instead of Crawford would be in line with the Yankees desire to get younger.

  280. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:16 am

    Al-

    Even IF he needs labrum surgery he is young enough that it shouldn’t affect the way we view him.

    Think of it like TJ surgery.

    If he starts to hit his prime at 25 and is good for all I mentioned so what. the kid has Superstar potential, and Long is just the guy to bring it out.

    And all that ASSUMES the shoulder needs repair.

    What if it doesn’t ?

    Lastly, we have a surplus of what it takes to get him.

    After a while it’s use it or lose it. Why not use it on a guy like him ?

  281. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Downs is a guy the Yanks wanted last season but I’m guessing didn’t like Toronto’s asking price.

    Now he could cost them a 2nd rounder (with Lee) and prob just a little more than Damaso Marte money :)

    Look at Downs #s though, in the AL East. Guy is legit.

  282. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Cash didn’t rush CC into making a decision (which CC appreciated) and he can’t rush Lee…………..he may not get the decision he wants if that’s the case. It’s a turn off. Lee is not a Yankee, so he can’t consider what other plans the Yankees have that are on hold while he decides. That’s the Yankees’ business, not anyone else’s.

  283. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:18 am

    What I mean is that Lee has to worry about himself; he shouldn’t rush anything just because the Yankees have issues they have to deal with.

  284. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Trader-

    I don’t buy that. I think Upton is still very much in play.

    At least I sure hope he is. ;)

  285. Yankee Trader December 8th, 2010 at 8:19 am

    BD-

    As much as I’d like Drawford playing LF for the Yankees, I agree with you. At the moment the pitching staff consists of only 8 arms-

    Sabathia
    Hughes
    Burnett
    Mitre
    Robertson
    Chamberlain
    Logan
    Rivera

    The offense will improve if most of the starting position players would revert to their norms.

    If the Yankees don’t improve their pitching, it’ll be a battle for a playoff position, let alone even advancing during the playoffs.

  286. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 8:19 am

    MTU -

    Players have an easier time coming back from TJ surgery than shoulder surgery.

    Having had shoulder surgery twice, I can tell you first hand, it’s not something you want to experience.

  287. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:20 am

    You’re all assuming Towers would like your “proposed deals” that don’t include any Yankee star prospects.

    I keep seeing these deals that probably wouldn’t land Upton. Maybe Towers wants the sun and the moon for Upton, making these discussions moot.

    I’m sure he’d have been traded already if he was willing to pass on teams #1 prospects for a slightly lesser package of mid-grade prospects (ie – not top 20 overall guys like Montero)

  288. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:21 am

    I don’t know.enough about Upton’s shoulder to comment but obviously you don’t make a deal for him if the med records indicate it could be a chronic problem…..23 year olds usually heal up well though. All about cost to acquire and whether you’d be dealing from.excess or not.

  289. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Prior was once a Yankee draft pick. I doubt he amounts to much, but it can’t hurt, so why not?

  290. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:21 am

    Al-

    I undderstand but consider this.

    It’s still only hypothetical that he needs it, and his brother made it back after w/o issue.

  291. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Yankee Trader,

    It seems like almost every season we feel like the yanks have enough pitching, yet they end up needing it mid-season.

    Now, we all agree they DON’T yet have enough…

    kinda scary.

  292. BIG AL December 8th, 2010 at 8:24 am

    OK – I’m going to get some much needed coffee, later.

  293. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:24 am

    Al-

    We are also talking about superstar potential here not chopped liver.

  294. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Forget Downs; Cash already said he wasn’t interested as he wants to keep the picks. I have no interest in helping the Jays by giving them draft picks, so I agree with Cash.

    The Yankees will have to trade for a pitcher if Lee doesn’t sign, but the problem is – who is available? Whoever is available isn’t going to be that great, so this rotation is not going to stack up with the best of the East (given that Andy is probably done, so now we need 2 pitchers)

  295. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    BD,

    That’s the thing….Towers probably is asking for Montero or Hughes now and the Yankees aren’t doing that…..but if he were to come off that and settle for 3-4 of the Yankees other quality pitching prospects then you talk. Its just speculation…..probably not going to happen.

  296. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    Betsy,

    Why not is right.

    Minor league deal? Fine. I’m not holding my breath but if it’s essentially zero risk…

    I’d still rather get Aceves back.

  297. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    I wouldn’t give Lee 7 years and I wouldn’t give Crawford anything (even though I don’t love Gardner and now I have concerns about his wrist).

  298. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Betsy,

    That’s why failure is not an option ;) I also agree on Prior, if its a minor league deal then why not….

  299. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:27 am

    If they get Aceves back, fine, if not, fine. I had serious concerns about his back as it was…………

  300. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Blake, to me failure is an option. I will not go 7 years no matter what; I would rather struggle than give him that……….

  301. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:29 am

    I guess discussing Upton is a way to while away the time, but he’s not being traded and the Yankees aren’t going to ravage their farm system for a player they don’t need, so it’s not happening.

  302. Yankee Trader December 8th, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Unless they have internal options, Arizona needs a 1st baseman, 2nd baseman, and now a 3rd baseman. They improved their bullpen, got a closer and probably could use another starter.

    If Upton gets traded, those are the holes they need filled.

  303. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Betsy,

    Though I disagree on Downs, my initial point was to demonstrate what the Yanks could do with the $ they didn’t spend on Crawford, namely fill every hole the team has this year and beyond.

    Also, I wouldn’t want to give up a 1st rd pick for Downs, but if they sign Lee, they’d give just a 2nd rd pick.

    Effectively, they’d actually be hurting the Jays if they did that (jays only get their 2nd rounder and not their 1st)

  304. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Betsy,

    I don’t want to give Lee 7 years either and I don’t think they’ll have to…..but what we have to consider is the alternative if that’s what it takes and you don’t. Let’s say it has to be 7 years or Lee goes elsewhere, are you going to give it to him or potentially trade a bunch ohf players (and maybe Montero) for pitching help? How much more of a risk is Lee at 7 years than at 6 and is that extra year in an already long and risky deal not worth avoiding what you’ll have to do without him.

  305. MTU December 8th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    trader-

    If it gets me Upton I make laird, Adams, vasquez and any starter not named hughes or montero available in a heartbeat.

  306. BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Blake,

    Sure. I don’t see Towers having a compelling reason to sell low on Upton at this point though.

    So yes, prob not going to happen.

  307. Yankee Trader December 8th, 2010 at 8:36 am

    Betsy-

    Matt Garza is being shopped. Although doubtful the Rays would trade with the Yankees, “maybe” he could be acquired through a multi-team trade.

    Prior to the bullpen on a minor league deal would be OK with me.
    Chris Young had a solid September after injury and was non tendered by the Padres. Rich Harden as a bullpen arm might help if healthy. My guess is that Aceves will need back surgery at some point.

    Of course I’d like to see Lee and Pettitte n the starting rotation, and Kerry Wood back as the 8th inning guy.

  308. Mike Ri December 8th, 2010 at 8:37 am

    I just hope the Yanks are “allowed” to make an offer to Lee today.

  309. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    BD, I agree…………If they don’t get Lee, Crawford is not an answer. They need pitching (how I hope we will eventually get to a point where we can say we have enough)

  310. Mell December 8th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    “Unless they have internal options, Arizona needs a 1st baseman, 2nd baseman, and now a 3rd baseman”

    Isn’t Kelly Johnson still with them?

  311. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Betsy,

    Why would you rather struggle than give Lee 1 more year?

  312. Mike Ri December 8th, 2010 at 8:39 am

    new thread —– >

  313. blake December 8th, 2010 at 8:40 am

    I think the “no comment” that Lee’s agent gave when Curry asked if the Yanks had made an offer would probably indicate that they made one last night. He has been saying no to those questions until now.

  314. Betsy December 8th, 2010 at 8:42 am

    Blake, tough questions………It’s easy for me to say now that I’d rather struggle, but if we can’t pull off any trades and we do struggle, will I be happy? Probably not, lol.

    I just agree with Cash that he doesn’t want his offer shopped and that he’ll wait until others have their offers in…………I don’t think this will be resolved anytime soon

  315. Yankee Trader December 8th, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Mell-

    Kelly Johnson is still there-arbitration eligible, and 3rd base they now have Melvin Mora. My bad.

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