The Yankees and Carl Crawford
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 08, 2010 
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This time last year, the Yankees seemed certain to eventually become heavy bidders in the Carl Crawford sweepstakes. Their outfield was questionable at best, and Crawford seemed to be the top player heading for free agency.
Since then, two things have changed: The outfield has gotten better and the rotation has gotten worse.
Today, it’s clear Cliff Lee is the Yankees top target. They badly need another front-of-the-rotation starter, and Andy Pettitte’s questionable return means they need quantity as well as quality. Lee seems to be the perfect fit.
Crawford represents an upgrade, but not an essential one. The Yankees traded for Curtis Granderson last winter, and not long after, Nick Swisher went to work making mechanical changes that made him a better hitter (he also seemed like a better defender last season). Brett Gardner had a breakout season to emerge as a more-than-viable option in left field. The Yankees need outfield depth, but their starters are good.
But Crawford is Crawford, and the Yankees are the Yankees.
Buster Olney has reported that the Yankees had a long “Crawford-related” meeting yesterday. Crawford himself might have been there. That may very well have been what Brian Cashman was hinting at yesterday when he said, “I’ve already met with one player, and I intend to meet with another player.” Olney reports Crawford himself might have been there, and the Yankees might be able to make a play for both Lee and Crawford if Pettitte doesn’t come back.
What’s difficult to know — and this has been the case with every Yankees rumor this week — is how much of this is genuine interest, and how much of this is the “wide net” Cashman has cast into the market. If he simply checking in, keeping his finger on the pulse? Or is he legitimately putting himself in a position to strike?
Crawford is an ALL STAR. The best LF in the AL.
The interest is GENUINE.
That’s not difficult to determine my man.
If Cashman swoops in and gets Crawford, it may light a fire under Cliff Lee to move.
i have a weird feeling we may see teixeria-esque situation pop up with carl. We had no clue the Yanks were interested in Tex until right before they signed him. Now we all know the Yanks have loved Crawford for years so in that respect it is slightly different, but knowing what we know about the soft payroll cap the Yanks have, and their interest in Lee most people are brushing over the Yanks interest in Crawford. Maybe it’s some wishful thinking on my part too.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Angelo,
I’m not brushing over anything.
“If Cashman swoops in and gets Crawford, it may light a fire under Cliff Lee to move”
—————————————————
or better yet. The Yankees pass on Cliff Lee and trade for Grienke instead.
The Lee circus is bringing out Greinke fans!!!
Niiiiiiice.
I don’t trust Greinke. I thought he had great potential years ago and argued with my cousin that the Yanks should have traded for him about a year or two before he had that breakdown. Now it seems he worked out his issues and is coming into his own regarding his talent. I just don’t trust a guy that has two good years under his belt. Is that worth trading Monetero? If Ubaldo Jimenez puts together another solid season, we’ll all be shouting for the Yanks to trade for him too. Again, what does he have at this point besides one good season?
As I’ve said, i’ll shed no tears if they sign Crawford. He’s a good player and he will help them but im not sure how good of an investment it is and im not sure how much better the team is with Crawford in the OF instead of Gardner or Swisher.
“I don’t trust Greinke”
—————————
I don’t trust Cliff Lee (in years: 5, 6, 7)
I’ll take Crawford + Lee
or
Crawford + Greinke
Doesn’t matter to me.
Yankees can afford both.
Boston got Adrian Gonzalez.
Yanks aren’t screwing around here.
There’s been rumors that trading Swisher has been talked about, but I think Gardie’s low cost and ability to play all 3 OF positions makes him the most tradeable. Would hate to see Swisher go with all the energy and passion he brings to an older team that needs it badly. Very cool also to see how he has improved through working hard.
SJ,
Do you think the Yankees could acquire Greinke without including Montero?
cubs got pena on a 1 year deal? He couldnt get a multiyear deal anywhere?
Hey lets sign everyone!!!!!!!!
And with that above story about the Crawford meeting/talks, Heyman tweets about the Yankees going to make a strong 6 year offer to Lee.
Hot Stove, hot dogs. I think Lee’s agent has just about used up his 15 minutes/ give or take a few days/ of fame. lol.
blake December 8th, 2010 at 11:00 am
SJ,
Do you think the Yankees could acquire Greinke without including Montero?
********
Negatory…but don’t forget about Gary Sanchez. Russell Martin and Austin Romine is a decent bridge to that guy.
Count me in the “keep Gardy” camp. Though at least going after Crawford makes more sense than going after Russ Martin.
If six years is the Yankees top offer to Lee – do they go $24? $25?
“The game is changing. There is greater value being placed on defense, speed, athleticism and, as always, pitching.”
SJ-
I agree with your take on the Lee situation. Braunecker is acting silly at this point and to be honest, I get the sense that he himself is enjoying being at the center of attention. This is his chance to get the kind of lime light Boras usually only gets.
Their camp needs to get serious with these negotiaions and handle them in a more business like fashion. Braunecker seems to be doing more talking to Heyman than with teams.
I also think your point on Lee’s market deflating without the yankees (and red sox and mets and cubs…) is on target. The Yankees absolutely send messages to Lee’s camp that they are willing to move on.
Regardless of what happens with Lee, however, that doesn’t make Crawford a better player.
I agree with your evaluation above regarding speed. But conversely, this actually makes players that can hit for power even more valuable because they are progressively becoming more and more difficult to find.
The Yankees passed on that player last off season. Holliday was literally perfect for this team. He does it all. He hits for power, for average, and gets on base all the time. On top of that he’s a balanced hitter how takes the ball to all fields – including right field. And he’s a very good defensive player who runs well.
And I don’t blame the yankees for passing on him. There are only so many long term contracts a team can decide to take on.
But the only reason to not pursue Holliday last season given the aging of the roster was due to the nature of the commitment.
You can’t turn around a year later and then make an even larger commitment to a lesser player. You just can’t – regardless of what happens to Lee.
And part of what I do find very ironic about Crawford’s career is that a large portion of his perceived value is tied to his own personal hang ups.
This is a player who is arguably the greatest defensive LF in the history of the game. That’s great – until you realize is that the only reason he’s even in LF is because he refuses to play CF – the position where he would add the most overall value to this team.
That’s the fundamental reason why Crawford generates so much defensive value. It’s in part an artifact of his own obstinacy.
He’s a fine player – but he’s not close to as good as what he’s going to get paid. The yankees shouldn’t make that mistake just because they missed out on Lee.
Regarding Greinke – he’s terrific. If they can get him within reasonable parameters they should even if they sign Lee.
Joelsherman1 Face to face meeting with Crawford is strongest indicator of what Plan B is if #Yankees can’t get Lee
Joelsherman1 Meeting took place at restaurant away from Winter Meetings. #Yankees have run scenarios in which get Lee and Crawford, but unlikely
The Royals have Wil Myers in their system who is one of the best catching prospects in the game.
Of all the guys in the system, the two I’d like to see them keep are Sanchez and Banuelos.
The rest to me are fair game for the right player.
The key word is RIGHT player.
I don’t think the Yankees are sitting face to face with Crawford calling him a plan “B”.
Think about that for a second.
They’re not bluffing.
The negotiations with him are underway.
Joelsherman1 Can also confirm @SI_Jonheyman report that #Yankees want to make 6-yr offer to Lee today, believe that a deal in $140M-$150M range
The Yankees are going to make a very strong six-year offer in the $140-150MM range to Lee today, tweets Heyman.
- Well at least they’ll take an offer .
# vinny-b December 8th, 2010 at 10:58 am
“I don’t trust Greinke”
—————————
I don’t trust Cliff Lee (in years: 5, 6, 7)
——————–
But I do trust Lee in years 1, 2, 3, and 4. IMO, that is more important.
“As good as he is, and he’s very good, he’s not bigger than the Yankees.
No one player is, as Derek Jeter found out during his contract negotiations.”
sj44-
the only thing jeter found out is that saying that he didn’t want to go anywhere else and would not look anywhere else could and would hurt him in negotiations.
you seem to think the present yankee management is bigger than the yankees.
despite the fact that the present yankee management has only produced one legitimate starter in five years of focusing on the minor league system, shouldn’t the yankee ownership hire someone who can actually run a minor league system that actually gets the job done?
or is your position that brian cashman is bigger than the yankees?
cashman has screwed up by getting the yankees in this weak position of having only two good starters.
i don’t see how he gets to be huffy with anyone.
he’s the one who needs to raise his game .
derek jeter is not the weak link on the yankees.
the weak link is the management who can’t get any continuity in their pitching coach or pitching development program at the minor league and major league level.
they get guys like burnett and vazquez and joba and turn them into plus 5.00 era starters.
this looking everywhere else , but where the problem really lies is ,well … baffling
i would have no problem in agreeing with you that cashman should get tough with lee if he would have developed the farm system the way he should have.
with the holes in the rotation, cashman just needs to pay the piper and try to get better with the minor league system in the future.
I also think your point on Lee’s market deflating without the yankees (and red sox and mets and cubs…) is on target.
———————————————————————————————–
Yeh, look at how bad Werth did without the Yankees bidding.
Lee is driving the train and Cashman is getting frustrated. Lee has Texas and others, Cashman has Nova and is looking at coughing up prospects for a middle of the rotation starter.
Just saw Jon Heyman chasing down another scoop. Here’s the footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRzhjDJlbVY
PS: I think Erin will be pleased.
God, now you guys got Randy going with his worn out anti-Cashman rants.
Realistically, what do you guys think Crawford gets in a deal? I know the Werth contract skews value, but what do you all think his final number will be?
I think a big question is – if Lee goes elsewhere and we sign Crawford, what will it take to obtain a number two caliber starter in a trade? This is what I hope Cashman is working behind the scenes.
“Time to really get randy going
Cashman developed Wanger!
lgy-
wang was developed by the tampa faction.
he was taught a trick pitch by someone hired by the tampa faction that cashman got rid of.
wang was always a tampa faction guy.
but nice try luigi.
Go get everyone Cashman, Crawford, Lee or Greinke or Josh Johnson ! We need to Stomp on boston and that arrogant yalie theo
If the Yanks offer 6/150 then I see nobody beating that….25 million AAV.
Crawford, 7 years, $105-$110 mil.
Giuseppe Franco December 8th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Just saw Jon Heyman chasing down another scoop. Here?s the footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRzhjDJlbVY
PS: I think Erin will be pleased.
***************************
Awesome.
I think Crawford gets 7/130..
Shame Spencer December 8th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Realistically, what do you guys think Crawford gets in a deal? I know the Werth contract skews value, but what do you all think his final number will be?
*****
I say 7 years 130 million and I don’t think the Yankees would arrange a private dinner with him away from the Winter Meetings just to lead him on in case Cliff Lee doesn’t sign. They’re not sitting face to face with him calling him their plan B and asking him to wait on Cliff Lee. He’s the best LF in the entire American League. They wouldn’t use him or disrespect him like that. Negotiations are well underway with him. It’s the media who keeps calling him a plan B – NOT the Yankees.
The Yankees are not signing Carl Crawford, unless he agrees to a 4-5 year deal at less $17 million/year or less.
Could Jurrjens be that nummer two caliber starter…?He didn’t have a great season but has great stuff and is still very young
blake December 8th, 2010 at 11:22 am
I think Crawford gets 7/130..
***********
COPY CAT!!!
I think crawford ends up with the same 7/126 werth got.
lgy-
wang was developed by the tampa faction.
he was taught a trick pitch by someone hired by the tampa faction that cashman got rid of.
wang was always a tampa faction guy.
but nice try luigi.
—————————-
Cashman doesn’t directly develop pitchers.
As long as the Yankees as an organization develop a pitcher the team should get credit for it.
No one person develops a pitcher.
It is an organizational wide effort from the time they are scouted to the day they are signed to the day they leave the organization.
The Yankees developed Wang.
Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 11:22 am
The Yankees are not signing Carl Crawford, unless he agrees to a 4-5 year deal at less $17 million/year or less.
_______
You KNOW this? How?
“He’s the best LF in the entire American League.”
—————
Not true.
Josh Hamilton is the best LF in the AL.
Carl -
Could Jurrjens be that nummer two caliber starter??He didn?t have a great season but has great stuff and is still very young
- IMO…. I’m done with National League pitchers . .and acquiring pitchers based on “stuff” .. We’ve been burned so many times
Brett,
I didn’t see if that’s what you thought too…..I think his agent will work hard to beat Werth’s deal. 7/130 is way too much though.
You KNOW this? How?
—
Logic, common sense, whatever you want to call it
I can see Crawford getting 7/140
Additionally, Choo could play LF and he is better than Crawford as well.
Josh Hamilton IS better, but I thought he was CF.
Choo plays RF.
blake December 8th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Brett,
I didn’t see if that’s what you thought too…..I think his agent will work hard to beat Werth’s deal. 7/130 is way too much though.
*******
Interesting!!! We were close on the Jeter contract as well.
Know of any good real estate???
crawdaddy-
yeah , your analysis over time has been so spot on.
nothing is more fun then going back a year or two on lohud and reading your nonsense.
i was just reading a year ago today you telling the best poster on the blog that “I’m just saying you talk down to others and you do it alot.”.
being insulted by you is actually a baseball compliment .
Hamilton played more LF than CF last year but a pretty large margin.
There are a number of players that COULD play LF and are better than Crawford but whatever, I’m not going to diminish Crawford’s ability. He still isn’t worth what he’s going to get. And he has no spot on the Yankees.
Crawford is the best position player left on the board, best LF in AL and he’s 29. That in combination with the Werth deal and the Yankees, Red Sox and Angels all expressing interest suggests to me a very nice payday for Mr. Crawford when it’s all said and done.
Hamilton only played 38 games in CF last season.
In terms of Choo as long as he can player both corners, which he can, it doesn’t really make sense to separate him out or you are artificially inflating Crawford’s worth.
I think 7/130 is a good bet. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if it went to 140. Can we assume Crawford will be upset if he doesn’t get more than Werth?
The designation of a “left fielder” is arbitrary. For the most part players who play both RF and CF can play LF.
LF, after 1b, is the easiest position on the diamond to play.
So when you’re evaluating the proposition of paying a LF 100M+ you have ask yourself not only is the best corner OF in baseball but also whether how his absolute production compares to the top offensive players in baseball regardless of position.
Crawford is not close to being the best corner OF in baseball.
This is just another example of a guys value being grossly inflated because he happens to be on the market at a particular time.
Free agent deals turn out so badly so often because players take on the bright shiny object sheen and teams overpay for them.
Paying a good to very good player as if he were a truly great players is a recipe for a bad deal.
I like Crawford a lot, but, he isn’t a $20 mil a year player, not even in baseball money.
Web,
I doubt Crawford will be upset. The Yankees are already treating him to dinner, wining and dining him. They will do everything in their power not to insult Crawford and that INCLUDES not making him wait on Lee as some sort of plan B the mediots keep repeating.
crawford isnt getting 20 M per year, not even from the yankees.
“It is an organizational wide effort from the time they are scouted to the day they are signed to the day they leave the organization.
The Yankees developed Wang.”
luigi-
we have agreement.
the organization developed wang.
the problem for you is wang was in fact taught the trick pitch in one day by someone the tampa faction hired . another part of the organization turned wang into a star. not cashman.
Carlos Gonzalez
Josh Hamilton
Matt Holliday
Ryan Braun
Are all listed a LF’ers.
The Yankees are already treating him to dinner, wining and dining him.
–
Haha and when did that happen? The report is that the Yankees had a Crawford related meeting and that Crawford MIGHT have been there. Hardly “wining and dining”
The Yankees will not sign Carl Crawford, I’d be pretty much anything on it.
Randy
If all you have to do is go back and read my comments than I pity you even more.
Meant to say, “I’d bet* pretty much anything on it.”
Randy thinks:
Cashman=Antichrist
Patrick -
Cashman met Crawford at a restraunt !. take it for what its worth . . But remember we can’t put anything past the Yankees !. . We were never to get TEX . .and now he has a ring
I’m having a hard time believing the Yankees are serious with Crawford right now.
Carlos Gonzalez
Josh Hamilton
Matt Holliday
Ryan Braun
Are all listed a LF’ers.
—
You can add in all RF’s and CF’s – they can play LF as well.
Werth, Choo, Heyward, Upton, McCutchen, Kemp plus the 4 you mentioned are all OF’s I’d sign before I signed Carl Crawford.
Although to be fair, Crawford is up there. He’s really good. Just not the BEST, and certainly not worth what he’s going to get paid.
Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 11:37 am
The Yankees are already treating him to dinner, wining and dining him.
–
Haha and when did that happen? The report is that the Yankees had a Crawford related meeting and that Crawford MIGHT have been there. Hardly “wining and dining”
The Yankees will not sign Carl Crawford, I’d be pretty much anything on it
———————————————————————————————————————-
They did in fact wine and dine Crawford. Hank brought in a sack of White Castle Cheese Burgers, fries and 2 quarts of Thunderbird for the meeting.
Cashman met Crawford at a restraunt !. take it for what its worth . . But remember we can’t put anything past the Yankees !. . We were never to get TEX . .and now he has a ring
—
Can I get a source on that?
A restaurant AWAY from the Winter Meetings…undisclosed location.
The Royale Treatment for Carl Crawford.
randy,
The thing I really don’t get with you is what you think Cashman’s job is?
A couple of weeks ago you were saying how he needs to be a marketing expert. Now you are saying he needs to be down in the trenches in the minor leagues developing pitchers.
No matter who the pitcher is you will always be able to find some loophole to say Cashman “didn’t develop him.”
As long as the player is on the big league roster Cashman gets credit for it.
His job is to assemble a team to win baseball games. And since he has gotten full control he has done a pretty damn good job accomplishing that goal.
I also don’t believe the Crawford stuff is serious.
As GB said, I like Crawford a lot, but he’s just not worth that kind of money.
They did in fact wine and dine Crawford. Hank brought in a sack of White Castle Cheese Burgers, fries and 2 quarts of Thunderbird for the meeting.
–
Sounds like my friday night!
$20+ million a year is too much for Crawford IMO, but i’m wondering even though i see other teams being interested, which would be able to go to that level. People are saying Boston as one possible destination, but do they want to go 7/130-150 for a LFer considering some of their other contracts?
A restaurant AWAY from the Winter Meetings…undisclosed location.
The Royale Treatment for Carl Crawford.
—
More like a royale with cheese and a chocolate milkshake.
The Red Sox could stick a statue in their LF and it would shag fly balls.
Patrick -
Yankees GM Brian Cashman had a long Crawford-related meeting yesterday, tweets ESPN’s Buster Olney. Joel Sherman tweets that Cashman met with his agent Brian Peters at a restaurant away from the meetings. Olney feels the Yankees are “preparing to zig off Cliff Lee if necessary.” Meanwhile Olney’s colleague Jayson Stark tweets that the Yankees are hinting that if Andy Pettitte retires, it becomes more likely they can afford both Crawford and Lee.
Crawford would be a great addition to the Yanks as a LF. Gardner would be a great 4th OF or trade bait for a pitcher. Cashman meeting with Crawford does a lot of things:
1.) Ups the cost for other teams on Crawford (RSox/Angels/etc)
2.) Motivates Pettite to say Yes/No sooner.
3.) Let’s Lee know Yanks have another option. (Trade)
Also, I read RSox are interested in pawning Dice-K for Beltran.
Randy,
As we stand here today, the Yankees have one of the deepest roster of pitching prospects as any team in baseball.
As many as a dozen legitimate prospects, with 3-4 of them in the high end/elite categories.
To put it in perspective, it dwarfs anything the Red Sox have in their system right now.
Organizationally speaking, they have to be doing something right to have this much talent in their system.
They have three starters, Sabathia, Hughes, and Burnett. Two were all stars and the other had a terrible year.
Two other starters were free agents.
Josh Beckett,John Lackey, Dice-K had terrible seasons last year and the Red Sox have ZERO pitching depth in their system. Where is the criticism of what they are doing?
Their organizational pitching issues are far more significant than the Yankees.
The Yankees aren’t in the dire position you seem to think they are. They certainly aren’t in desperation mode.
They will fill out their roster and be right in the thick of things next year.
As they always are.
The courting process is definitely underway with Crawford. They’re not leading him on.
So meeting with Crawford’s agent at a restaurant == wining and dining him? Talk about an exaggeration…
Why do fans with no financial interest in the team care what the Yankees pay a player? Especially, since the Hal era has started out with a new eye towards fiscal responsibility, as Brian Cashman confirmed recently.
SJ44,
You’re wasting your time. Hating eyes can’t see reality.
Pena to the Cubs, Garza might follow him
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....garza.html
I dont think Ive seen anyone mention the yanks trading for Garza. Personally I would rather get him over Grienke. Proven in the AL and Ive always like his stuff. He had a bit of a down year last year, but I think he could be better. What do you think TB would ask for him being in their division?
only an idiot would trade anything for Dice-K now.
But hey, Boston manages to get a lot of these other GMs without giving much back.
“The courting process is definitely underway with Crawford. They’re not leading him on.”
Maybe, but maybe not. Hard to tell from our vantage point.
The courting process is definitely underway with Crawford. They’re not leading him on.
—
You make it sound like Cashman wants to bang Crawford and not sign him. RElax bro
“If all you have to do is go back and read my comments than I pity you even more.”
crawdaddy-
it’s really easy.
even you could do it.
go to the google website
type in “lohud yankees blog” in search box
click on “more search tools”
click on “custom range”
type in the date you want to search.
click on ‘SEARCH”
there you go.
a nice read on what was going on in lohudville any time you want.
i like to know who’s actually right more often than not about predicting the future , so going back is the only way to do it, wouldn’t you say?
you wouldn’t believe which one of your sabermetric blog buddies said raphael soriano was just a middle reliever last year at this time.
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 11:42 am
They did in fact wine and dine Crawford. Hank brought in a sack of White Castle Cheese Burgers, fries and 2 quarts of Thunderbird for the meeting.
*****************************
Hank really knows how to wine and dine!
“Why do fans with no financial interest in the team care what the Yankees pay a player?”
WCYF,
You know why, unless, you don’t believe the Yankees have a budget.
“Why do fans with no financial interest in the team care what the Yankees pay a player? Especially, since the Hal era has started out with a new eye towards fiscal responsibility, as Brian Cashman confirmed recently.”
——————————
Didn’t you just answer your question right after stating it?
Fans care for 3 reasons.
1. There is no an unlimited amount of money to spend. What you spend on one player impacts what you spend on another.
2. It is not about one year or two years. You are not paying Crawford for example for just a couple years. You are paying him for 7 or 8 years. So fans have the reasonable perception that down the road there may be/will be better options that Crawford will block.
3. There is a limited number of players on the field. Acquiring one player at big money means you can’t target a different player for the same position most of the time.
does this get it done? For Grienke..
Chamberlain, Gardner, Romine, (and 1 of Brackman/Nova/Novesi)
The courting process is definitely underway with Crawford. They’re not leading him on.
?
You make it sound like Cashman wants to bang Crawford and not sign him. RElax bro
— Pat– – LOL LOL LOL
Why do fans with no financial interest in the team care what the Yankees pay a player? Especially, since the Hal era has started out with a new eye towards fiscal responsibility, as Brian Cashman confirmed recently.
—
Well maybe we DO have a financial interest in the team!
Seriously though, it’s because the Yankees have a budget and if they blow that budget on bad contracts it will limit the GOOD players they can sign. Long contracts are bad because virtually no players are good for their entire contract. If they sign Crawford to a 7 year $130 million deal and Crawford is terrible in the last 2 years what do you do then? You have a bad player making almost $20 million a year. You can’t cut him, you can’t trade him. It hamstrings the team.
That’s why people care about how much the Yankees spend.
Crawford doesn’t have to be the best to garner interest. But he’s pretty darn good. Speed, defense, steals, bat, average, arm – all good or better than average. And he’s young – 29 I believe, so he’s entering his prime. Sure his steals may decrease, but so what. From 60 to 40? I’ll take it.
I still think he’s Plan B. But Plan B goes into effect the moment that Lee turns down a 6 year contract. Frankly, I think he gets a 5 year offer, negotiated to a 6 year team option, but he’s not getting 7.
“Pena to the Cubs, Garza might follow him”
——————————————-
who does that leave on the Tampa Bay roster?? Longoria and Price
randy l. December 8th, 2010 at 11:52 am
i like to know who’s actually right more often than not about predicting the future , so going back is the only way to do it, wouldn’t you say?
you wouldn’t believe which one of your sabermetric blog buddies said raphael soriano was just a middle reliever last year at this time.
************
Buster_ESPN Everybody is wondering which team is offering Cliff Lee a seven-year deal; cross the Baltimore Orioles off the list.
# West Coast Yankee Fan December 8th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Why do fans with no financial interest in the team care what the Yankees pay a player? Especially, since the Hal era has started out with a new eye towards fiscal responsibility, as Brian Cashman confirmed recently.
———-
I rarely do, but in this case, the Yanks already have a LF in Gardner making peanuts coming off a very good year.
Crawford is a very good player. I like him a lot.
But he’s not $20M a year better than Gardner.
“# vinny-b December 8th, 2010 at 11:56 am
“Pena to the Cubs, Garza might follow him”
——————————————-
who does that leave on the Tampa Bay roster?? Longoria and Price
”
still have good young pitching but this looks like Rays ownership is going the “Major League” route considering they let most of their bullpen go also…….hope for really bad attendance(which won’t be hard to do at the Trop) and use that to force a move to another city
The Rays should be moving out lame big-game James instead of Garza IMO.
But hey, why should I care if they want to trade off their better pitchers.
Ouch! Craw you just got schooled by randy. The old man teaching you how to use the internet!
vinny-b-
That’s not going to be enough to get Greinke. In fact it would take much more.
Greinke is 27, has won a Cy Young, and is signed to a very good contract.
The Royals aren’t going to want either Chamberlain or Gardner. They are reportedly looking for players in the upper minors who will be ready to come up around the time their own blue chippers are going to be coming up. That’s what’s going to allow them to develop a core to keep together for at least 6 years.
For Greinke I think you’re talking about Montero, Banuelos, Betances and another player.
The more they wine and dine Crawford, the more his price goes up for the RS.
Erin December 8th, 2010 at 11:53 am
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 11:42 am
They did in fact wine and dine Crawford. Hank brought in a sack of White Castle Cheese Burgers, fries and 2 quarts of Thunderbird for the meeting.
*****************************
Hank really knows how to wine and dine!
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He refused to spring for packs of Marlboros, though. He did buy his version of Cuban cigars. He bought a bunch of roll your own tobacco and hired some Cuban refugees to make cigars out of them. His generosity knows no bounds.
Randy,
I’d like a list of all the “sabermetric blog buddies” who were pimping Nick Johnson at this time last year.
Cameron, Nick Johnson, Rafael Soriano…
Ken_Rosenthal
Confirming #Yankees face-to-face meeting w Crawford. Team could do Lee and Craw by trading OFer and/or Pettitte retiring. #Rangers #MLB
“Buster_ESPN Everybody is wondering which team is offering Cliff Lee a seven-year deal; cross the Baltimore Orioles off the list.”
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Interesting.
If the 7 year offer was true I was guessing Baltimore.
“Ouch! Craw you just got schooled by randy. The old man teaching you how to use the internet!”
The only thing he’s teaching me is that it’s easy to pull his chain without really trying.
tampayank:
do they still plan to move BJ Upton?
randy – can we start getting reports on who is monopolizing the ‘rightness’ on the blog every now and then? I’m now curious myself but don’t have the dedication to figure it out.
But he’s not $20M a year better than Gardner.
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Is he 5m better than Swisher?
“As we stand here today, the Yankees have one of the deepest roster of pitching prospects as any team in baseball.
As many as a dozen legitimate prospects, with 3-4 of them in the high end/elite categories.”
sj44-
i saw looking back a year on lohud you predicting nova being a possible surprise for 2020 at this time. good call.
i have no doubt you know your stuff because of how close you actually follow the minor league players by watching them with your own eyes.
that said, only one good starter has been produced by the yankee minor league system in the past five year(hughes) and there is no one this year who can make a similar impact as hughes did last year.
maybe next year or the year after one of these prospects that you say to keep an eye on will be another hughes, but for this year the system has not done it’s job.
and that’s why lee has the yankees over a barrel.
the red sox are very likely to be all in this year and next.
the yankees better not wait to see how strong they get before reacting.
2010, not 2020 that is
I got a feeling Crawford will be a Yankee by weeks end ! and Kiss Gardner bye bye
I haven’t heard anything about BJ Upton yet….we should want Garza out of the division, he is a clutch pitcher
I’d do Montero + Betances + Brackman + Nunez for Greinke.
CB:
ok. But why wouldn’t the Royals want Gardner? They wanted him last off-season, and Gardner have only improved from that time..
Gardner is iffy with the wrist.
“Crawford is a very good player. I like him a lot.
But he’s not $20M a year better than Gardner.”
One of the ironies of the Crawford talk is that the Crawford has two baseball skills that are truly elite – his defense and his base stealing.
It’s those two things – not his bat – that generate almost all of this value compared to many LF.
If a team that has a the usual poor defensive LF signs Crawford they get a huge bump up with his defense and base stealing.
But the yankees already have a LF who is a plus defender and a plus base stealer.
Is he as good at either of those as Crawford is? No. But the yankees aren’t going to take a huge step up in the areas that are Crawford’s forte because they already have a player with analogous skill sets.
You’re not going to get a 20 runs saved bump from Crawford’s glove if your the Yankees. And it’s that glove that is a huge driver for him making 100M+.
Very good player. Not the right fit and not the right value.
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
He refused to spring for packs of Marlboros, though. He did buy his version of Cuban cigars. He bought a bunch of roll your own tobacco and hired some Cuban refugees to make cigars out of them. His generosity knows no bounds.
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Sounds like he’s been watching Seinfeld. Did he make sure the Cubans weren’t Dominicans?
“I haven’t heard anything about BJ Upton yet….we should want Garza out of the division, he is a clutch pitcher”
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that he is. MTU is right. Better Garza, then big game James
Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
I’d do Montero + Betances + Brackman + Nunez for Greinke.
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You would, but Cashman won’t.
For Greinke I think you’re talking about Montero, Banuelos, Betances and another player.
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Pass!
And randy, Wang was pretty good when healthy. Kennedy had a nice 2010 season. Chamberlain is busting pretty hard but might be useful. You can also look at the bullpen and see a few guys that have done well and come through the farm system – Robertson in particular. Also I’d like to see what Brackman, Banuelos, Betances and even Arodys Vizcaino do down the road before I condemn the Yankee system.
“You would, but Cashman won’t.”
I’m with Cashman.
Their is going to be plenty of competition for cc’s services.
For example:
Angels, Tigers, and Sux.
I think cc is an excellent ballplayer but I agree with those who think he is not worth the difference in price over GGBG.
My choice, though it’s a longshot and involves trading, is JU.
Hopefully, Plan A will flesh out (CL and AP) and we won’t need either one.
Sorry Diaz went to the Pirates. He would have been great off the bench, and as platoon-type guy.
I’d do Montero + Betances + Brackman + Nunez for Greinke.
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So glad you aren’t the GM….
Erin December 8th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
He refused to spring for packs of Marlboros, though. He did buy his version of Cuban cigars. He bought a bunch of roll your own tobacco and hired some Cuban refugees to make cigars out of them. His generosity knows no bounds.
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Sounds like he’s been watching Seinfeld. Did he make sure the Cubans weren’t Dominicans?
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What’s the differnce? They all speak Spanish. In all the years that show has been around, I’ve only watched it one time.
Is he as good at either of those as Crawford is? No. But the yankees aren’t going to take a huge step up in the areas that are Crawford’s forte because they already have a player with analogous skill sets.
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Well according to fielding bible, Gardner was actually a better defender than Crawford this past year.
Although, yeah, we can’t really say “Gardner is a better defender than Crawford” based on one year
No way I would give that for Greinke. That’s why you give Lee whatever it takes…..don’t bid against yourself, but do what it takes.
vinny-
They may want him – but they aren’t going to want him as a main piece.
I know this is a very strange way to look at things – Gardner already has 1 year service time accumulated.
The Royals have the best minor league system in baseball right now. But their prospects are at least 1-2 years away at the earliest and in most cases 2-3 years away.
That means by the time the Royals call up their future, Gardner will already have accumulated 2-3 years service time. He’ll be getting expensive in arb and will be a free agent when the younger players are starting to figure out the big league game.
On top of that Gardner’s wrist injury complicates things. Wrists can be a challenge to come back with. If Gardner say struggles at the plate for half a year that’s more service time accumulated for nothing.
Montero, Banuelos, Betances and another player (for Grienke)
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CB: I don’t believe it will take THAT much.
while Grienke has a few possible suitors, he also has anxiety issues and the no-trade. The Yankees wouldn’t have to surrender their 3 TOP prospects via a very strong farm system.
new post —–>
Randy,
The Red Sox, like the Yankees, are all in every year.
That hasn’t changed.
The Red Sox don’t have anybody in their system as good as Nova, who could be an effective fifth starter if given the chance, IMO, and he’s not even the Yankees best pitching prospect.
If DJ Mitchell or David Phelps were in the Red Sox system, all of the media loving Red Sox folks on the Internet would declare each guy elite pitching prospects.
If Hector Noesi was in the Red Sox farm system, Peter Gammons would be drooling all over himself.
You know what all of these guys have in common?
None of them are in the Top 3 as Yankee pitching prospects.
That’s how much depth they have.
That kind of depth gives them plenty of options beyond Cliff Lee if his agent messes up a slam dunk situation for his client.
As an aside, the fact the Yankees leaked a Crawford meeting, and did it in a public place, is a clear indication they are sending a message to the Lee camp.
“For Greinke I think you’re talking about Montero, Banuelos, Betances and another player.”
cb-
this is hard to explain because it’s just a subjective feeling or intuition, but about every ten-15 years a yankee youngster comes along that really gets me excited. montero is one of those guys.
i do not want to trade away montero .
there’s just something about him that says yankee star.
i’m really looking forward to jeter passing on the torch to him by the overlapping of their careers.
people think jorge will mentor him. as much as i like jorge, i think jeter will impact montero more.
i say keep montero at all costs.
New Post: Lunch with the skipper
As an aside, the fact the Yankees leaked a Crawford meeting, and did it in a public place, is a clear indication they are sending a message to the Lee camp.
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The secondary effect being – it maybe raises Crawford’s asking price which hurts our competition (Angels, Red Sox)
CB:
thanks for the input (Re: Gardner). I get what you mean. You make vaild points. However KC does have to field a team in the meantime.
Patrick-
The day has been contentious enough already. If you try to corner me into yet another “debate” about defensive metrics and sample size I’ll never forgive you.
randy,
I agree about Montero, I think he’ll be special. But why would Jeter mentor him instead of Jorge? Jesus and Jorge are both catchers, both speak spanish, both have first names starting with a J but pronounced like an H.
The day has been contentious enough already. If you try to corner me into yet another “debate” about defensive metrics and sample size I’ll never forgive you.
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Sorry! I’m agreeing with you in the end that Crawford is a better LF. Honestly I just wanted to give Gardner some props.
Jorge is already mentoring Montero on and off the field.
They are very close.
My question is, how will Girardi ever refer to Montero? His name isn’t really conducive to adding a y to the end. Monteroy, Jesusy? Maybe Girardi will call him Monty
SJ44 December 8th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Jorge is already mentoring Montero on and off the field.
They are very close.
I think Jorge will be a Yankee coach in 2012.
Do the yankees really need to trade an OFer if they get crawford. If they would get him couldnt they have posada as the DH when montero would catch and when the back up Posada caught that would be able to move swisher to DH and put gardner in the OF somewhere with granderson and crawford. plus gardner would be a great speed guy off the bench.
How far can Lee and his agent push the Yankees until they move on. This whole thing with him is a circus for his agent. I would like them to sign him but I also say at some point enough is enough negotiate and make a decision.
Patrick: It will definitely be Monty.