Winter Meetings Day 3 begins in Orlando
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 08, 2010 
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Remember Sunday night, when Jayson Werth got a seven-year deal and the dead Adrian Gonzalez trade came back to life? That seemed to be a sure sign of a wild scene at the Winter Meetings.
Instead, it’s been mostly speculation and gridlock.
Cliff Lee remains the biggest name being discussed here in Orlando, but that signing remains fairly unpredictable. There have been trades — including a few significant ones — but there hasn’t been one to equal the Red Sox-Padres deal, and certainly not one to equal last winter’s three-team, Curtis Granderson swap.
Late last night, Carlos Pena reportedly signed with the Cubs and Matt Diaz apparently came off the Yankees radar with a two-year deal in Pittsburgh. The Yankees were reported to be interested in a minor league deal with Mark Prior (hey, why not?) and possibly a Major League deal with Russell Martin (nothing new there).
For the most part, though, these Winter Meetings have been more sizzle than steak. Plenty of talk. Not so much action.
Blake, in theory I’d rather struggle because giving Lee 7 years is ridiculous. If some other team wants to give him that, ok. The Yankees will make a very fair offer to him and if that’s not good enough, well they did their best. He’s older than CC was. I can’t see paying him until he’s in his 40′s………….my word, the Yankees have bad (or will have) contracts. I barely want to give him 6 years.
I asked this yesterday and may have missed it. Does anybody have Jeter’s numbers before and after he got hit on wrist this past season. I think it was May or June. I thought I’d seen them somewhere. Thanks.
For the most part, though, these Winter Meetings have been more sizzle than steak. Plenty of talk. Not so much action.
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Time to head to Disney World.
Betsy
True, but when you consider the fact that they may have to trade some of their young cheap players to add pitching if they lose him then…..I don’t know. Again, I dont want to give him 7 years either and I don’t think they will have to but, if that’s what it takes then the alternative could be more painful than that extra year 7 years from now would be.
Davidoff went there.
“.. My sense is that the Yankees couldn’t have been happier with how this whole process went: They got Jeter to take a pay cut, and the world enjoyed a better glimpse into the captain’s complexities.
I was speaking with a friend of Brian Cashman last night, upon returning to Orlando, and he laughed as we discussed Jeter essentially calling out the Yankees GM.
“I bet that bothered Brian for one, maybe two seconds,” the friend said. “If Mariano (Rivera, of course) had said something like that, now that would’ve bothered Brian.”
this just in…Lee will be appearing on ESPN for an hour long special announcing “THE CHOICE”…former team mates and fellow hunters will provide their insight… j/k
Lee to Yanks by end of Thurs. Book it!
I really don’t blame Jeter for being upset at the public nature of the talks. Cashman admitted yesterday that his bedside manner could use some work but that’s his job….and part of the reason he’s good at it. Someone has to be the bad guy and its better if its not the owner or the manager. The Yankees used Jeter’s image consciousness against him to push him towards a deal…..Cashman said as much yesterday, he wanted to move things along so that he could address other issues (Cliff Lee). Both sides are happy now, that’s all that matters.
does anyone else get the feeling Lee’s agent is enjoying being the belle of the ball a little too much? They’re making this out like this is the biggest FA deal in the history of the game. I mean come on already.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
If Lee is the difference between winning the World Series and not winning, I could care less what the Yankees give him. For one thing, it isnt my money. Another thing to remember is that 3 years from now our team could look very different, never mind 6 or 7.. we eat salary all the time and if we have to we’ll do it again.
” It was twenty years ago today…”
Actually it was thirty years ago today. RIP John Lennon.
I believe the Yankees would go to 7 years if they had to but they aren’t doing that without a firm.offer from.another team that they need to beat. That’s why Cashman doesn’t want his offer shopped and why they are denying publically that they would go to 7…..they don’t want Lee’s camp even getting that number in their heads. If it gets out that the Yankees would go to 7 years…..then guess what, they’ll have to. I still think 6/140 will get it done….I don’t believe in mystery teams.
ESPN had a nice segment on John Lennon this am, showing how the story broke on MNF, and Howard Cosell’s initial reluctance to announce it
Shame-
The problem with that is if the Yanks keep giving out bad contracts it will become the norm. That will catch up to them eventually. Too many free agents/their agents already acting like they would rather play for other teams/locales or whatever just to get Yanks to bid against themselves. It has to stop. Whatever happened to you either want to be a Yankee or you don’t. Hold the line Cash.
Sherman seems very skeptical that a 7 year offer is even out there for Lee…
Joelsherman1 Have been unable to find anyone with history with Lee who think he will take anything but biggest deal, which will be fascinating if
Joelsherman1 #Yankees really refuse to budge off 6-yr offer and Lee has 7 elsewhere, especially from a non-contender
Bronx Jeers December 8th, 2010 at 9:04 am
? It was twenty years ago today??
Actually it was thirty years ago today. RIP John Lennon.
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RIP
JD
Yankees eat bad contracts all the time. How about Igawa. Wasn’t it 40 million or more?
At least Lee will give them a top pitcher. Maybe not for 7 years but do you think the Yanks care? They have money up the kazoo.
JD – We’ve already made giving out bad contracts the norm. I’m not saying “hey, we screwed up this many times, lets keep going” by any stretch of the imagination. What I’m saying is, we’ve made (many) mistakes in the past and have been able to successfully overcome them. That, coupled with the fact that we actually have been better at curbing the bad contracts we’ve given out, IMO is enough of a reason not to worry about what we pay Lee and for how long.
Also JD – not to belabor the point, but the Yankees will always be used by other teams/agents/players to drive up prices. That will never change unless they stop spending the most money… which I hope we can all agree we don’t want them to do.
When I see reports that people who know Lee say he will go for the most money, I really hope that’s not true. If so, I’m not convinced that the Nationals don’t land him. I hope that the “fire” we have seen him show on the mound, is what burns inside of him. If he wants to play for a yearly contender, then we have a great shot (though the Angels interest concerns me).
No crying Erin-
We all shine on. Like the moon and the stars and the sun!
RMS,
That’s the attitude that got them in deep trouble.
Yanks need to use their $$ advantage wisely in order to really have an advantage.
More money AND smart decisions = bad news for the rest of the league
Not saying Lee is a bad decision by any means, but they need to think it through and only make decisions that make sense.
7/160 might not make sense. That’s all.
It sounds like Lee’s agent is handling this perfectly because his public stance will help max out every offer, but if Lee does sign with a non-contender for a little more, the guy should put down the crack pipe. He can’t spend the difference, nor can his kids, and he will be whining about the situation within a year.
6-150
or
7-150?
NDYankee,
At this point Kermit the frog could report on Lee (or Waldorf and Statler) and it would be as credible as anything else out there.
Erin
Swisher wedding info in the NY Post today.
Erica!!! Welcome back
Rich in NJ,
I agree – but I’m not counting Washington as a non-contender of they did get Lee.
Seems like they’re committed to building a winning club there.
I have to salute them for trying.
BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 9:24 am
NDYankee,
At this point Kermit the frog could report on Lee (or Waldorf and Statler) and it would be as credible as anything else out there.
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OK, that would be an awesome report
pat December 8th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Erin
Swisher wedding info in the NY Post today.
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thanks pat-I’ll have to check it out. I can’t wait to see pictures from the wedding.
regarding cc’s reaction to whatever Lee gets, he won’t opt out. I think the opt out was put in for the event he didnt like the city, which he does.
BD – does Kermit have a Twitter account?
BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 9:24 am
NDYankee,
At this point Kermit the frog could report on Lee (or Waldorf and Statler) and it would be as credible as anything else out there.
*************
And soooooo much more enjoyable!!!
Erin,
Kermit has done some fine reporting in his day
Thanks Erin!
I have no idea how regularly I will be posting, but I missed my blog friends
BD
I think they are trying, but until or unless Straburg comes back at (or close to) the same level, I think it could take a few years to reach the playoffs, By then, Lee may not be quite as good as he is now.
BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Erin,
Kermit has done some fine reporting in his day
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He has. I’ve always loved his little trench coat and hat.
If Lee does sign with a bad team he’ll be wiping away his tears with dollar bills.
Hundred dollar bills.
Like Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber.
Why wouldn’t Cliff Lee play for a non-contender? It seems his ego is big enough. He’s probably convinced he can make any team a contender and doesn’t need the perfect team to help him win. If this comes down to strictly money, it could get interesting.
The Yankees might be forced to go 7 years with a high AAV.
I’m fine with Lee taking a bigger offer from a non-contender.
The yanks need to ween themselves off these mega-free agents anyway. 2 years ago they went out and got the best guy available. Actually the best 3 available. Now they need to do it again?
We need a bridge year!
Strange days indeed….
I have been on T.V. twice in my life.
The night Lennon died. My mom took me-I was 11 months old-to some gathering in the city. And it was on T.V..
I was also on T.V. the day George died 21 years later.
.Russell Martin’s negotiations have reached the point where teams are making offers to his agent, Matt Colleran; NYY, Bos center of mix.
18 minutes ago via web
NYY and Red Sox fighting for Russell Martin…
Interesting…
“Not saying Lee is a bad decision by any means, but they need to think it through and only make decisions that make sense”
I think their decisions did make sense to them at the time.
pat-who knew Swish was friends with Lance Bass? LOL
I actually like the possibility of getting mark prior. With Lee and Pettitte uncertainty, cant hurt to have someone who CAN dominate when healthy.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....eFvIJm8ONL
Big CC
Tom,
Do us all a favor and stay off the tube.
“.Russell Martin’s negotiations have reached the point where teams are making offers to his agent, Matt Colleran; NYY, Bos center of mix.”
Interesting that the catching rich and catching poor are pursuing the same guy.
WOOHOO…welcome back Erica!!!
The Yankees can still compete without Lee, especially if he goes to the NL or a non-contender.
He was a difference maker in the AL playoffs last year.
YankeesWFAN Yanks had some interest in Matt Diaz, who signed with PITT. Need 4th OF, righty bat.
Martin would start in Boston and Back up Montero here.
Hope Pavano goes to the Nats over returning to Minny.
The Twins rotations is weak without Pavano.
Basically every team with big question marks.
YankeesWFAN Yanks rumored interest in Mark Prior probably has a lot to do with new pitching coach Larry Rothschild. Low risk move if they do it.
Did you guys see Kermit’s “It Get Better” video?! It was pretty sweet.
Carl,
I believe CC when he says this. He’s a stand up guy, not a money diva.
“It has no effect on me at all,” Sabathia told The Post yesterday when asked if Lee’s projected windfall could lead the Yankees’ ace to opt out of the seven-year deal that has four years and $97 million remaining.
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z17Wyf2kVg
Erin December 8th, 2010 at 9:29 am
BD (Boston Dave) December 8th, 2010 at 9:28 am
Erin,
Kermit has done some fine reporting in his day
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He has. I’ve always loved his little trench coat and hat.
———————————————————————————————————————-
Kermit only wore that trench coat for one reason. He has long been known as “The Swamp Flasher”. That is a known fact. He isn’t exactly Walter Frogkite.
Shame Spencer December 8th, 2010 at 9:38 am
Did you guys see Kermit?s ?It Get Better? video?! It was pretty sweet.
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I did!! Loved it.
ac1 December 8th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Martin would start in Boston and Back up Montero here.
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Or Cashman would need to use Montero as a trade chip for a starting pitcher so Martin would start here as well.
Mark Prior hasn’t thrown a pitch in the major leagues since 2006, hasnt pitched 200 innings since 2003. Mark Prior is just a name…nothing more, nothing less.
I want to believe CC too. I think he may be sincere. But what else was he going to say?
Sabathia won’t opt out
TAMPA — CC Sabathia said whatever Cliff Lee pulls down won’t lead to the Yankees’ ace exercising an opt out clause in his contract after next year.
“It has no effect on me at all,” Sabathia told The Post yesterday when asked if Lee’s projected windfall could lead the Yankees’ ace to opt out of the seven-year deal that has four years and $97 million remaining.”
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z17X0JTBjX
CC Sabathia said whatever Cliff Lee pulls down won’t lead to the Yankees’ ace exercising an opt out clause in his contract after next year.
“It has no effect on me at all,” Sabathia told The Post yesterday
Http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z17X0Bkmn8
“It has no effect on me at all,” Sabathia told The Post yesterday when asked if Lee’s projected windfall could lead the Yankees’ ace to opt out of the seven-year deal that has four years and $97 million remaining.
Sure. And he could be thinking to himself “It has no effect on me at all, I was going to opt out either way”
I hope CC has such a good season this year that this is something we have to worry about. Maybe he won’t opt out, but he may play this like a contract year and that is good for us.
I thought Yanks backed out of Cervelli /Martin trade after medicals were exchanged. Now they still want him? Yankees love them some Cervelli I guess.
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Kermit only wore that trench coat for one reason. He has long been known as ?The Swamp Flasher?. That is a known fact. He isn?t exactly Walter Frogkite.
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GB, you’re wrong-Kermit is a very good reporter. He covered many important events, like Sleeping Beauty waking up, Jack and Jill going down the hill and many others. He’s always where the action is!
# Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 9:40 am
ac1 December 8th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Martin would start in Boston and Back up Montero here.
********
Or Cashman would need to use Montero as a trade chip for a starting pitcher so Martin would start here as well.
—————————–
Hard to see Cash signing Martin, then trading Montero just so Martin is guaranteed to start. Well on second thought, it’s not hard to see. It’s not going to happen. They’re going to give Monetero every chance to earn the starting job.
JD,
The Yankees nearly traded for Martin reportedly. I speculate that they sensed the Dodgers would non-tender Martin, making it worth waiting and holding onto Cervelli in the process.
# ac1 December 8th, 2010 at 9:43 am
I hope CC has such a good season this year that this is something we have to worry about. Maybe he won’t opt out, but he may play this like a contract year and that is good for us.
Hell yeah
I wouldn’t blame CC if he ultimately changed his mind, but that’s great to hear.
Erin December 8th, 2010 at 9:35 am
pat-who knew Swish was friends with Lance Bass? LOL
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Completely random Erica fact-
I once stood outside the Total Request Live studio in the rain when Lance Bass was on
(In my defense, we just happened to be walking through Times Square and decided to see what all of the screaming was about)
Bret,
They nearly traded Cervelli for Martin but the Dodgers refused to show Cashman his medical records. That’s a pretty big red flag and probably the reason Cashman backed out of the deal.
Hi Upstate Kate
Gone are the days when players rarely had multi-year contracts and a Mickey Mantle would have to sit down one-on-one with George Weiss and be told he had to take a pay cut after having a terrific year. With any luck they’d be offered the same one-year deal as the previous season.
It’s understandable that since the advent of free agency players needed agents to represent them.
As anybody knows, agents work for commissions and the higher the contract the better for the agent but at some point the player has to say enough is enough – talks have dragged on too long.
Derek Jeter may be a little miffed right now but Casey Close has to shoulder some blame for stupidly talking to (of all people) Lupica and saying he was “baffled”. That did nothing but fan the flames in the media portrayal of Jeter and escalated from there. Jeter can’t be blamed if he decides to drop Casey Close as his agent.
Sometimes players fail to remember that the agent works for the player and not vice versa.
It may be the time for Cliff Lee to tell Darek Braunecker to stop the music and that his mind has been made up.
I don’t believe for a minute that there’s a 7-year deal in place with a 3rd team involved. The Yankees and Texas are the only players and Cashman’s deal trumps what the Rangers have on the table in every respect.
Web December 8th, 2010 at 9:45 am
# Bret The Hitman December 8th, 2010 at 9:40 am
ac1 December 8th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Martin would start in Boston and Back up Montero here.
********
Or Cashman would need to use Montero as a trade chip for a starting pitcher so Martin would start here as well.
—————————–
Hard to see Cash signing Martin, then trading Montero just so Martin is guaranteed to start. Well on second thought, it’s not hard to see. It’s not going to happen. They’re going to give Monetero every chance to earn the starting job.
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That’s fine but I never said that. I said, if Cashman needs Montero in a trade for a starter, Martin would start here too. It’s possible that Cashman wants R. Martin to wait, just in case he needs him. Obviously if Cash signs him now he can’t guarantee him a starting job because Montero is the guy.
Patrick December 8th, 2010 at 9:47 am
Bret,
They nearly traded Cervelli for Martin but the Dodgers refused to show Cashman his medical records. That’s a pretty big red flag and probably the reason Cashman backed out of the deal.
********
If it’s such a red flag, why are the Yankees still pursuing Russell Martin?
Erin
Swish inheritted him. He’s Joanna’s BFF.
Erin December 8th, 2010 at 9:44 am
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Kermit only wore that trench coat for one reason. He has long been known as ?The Swamp Flasher?. That is a known fact. He isn?t exactly Walter Frogkite.
*******************************
GB, you’re wrong-Kermit is a very good reporter. He covered many important events, like Sleeping Beauty waking up, Jack and Jill going down the hill and many others. He’s always where the action is!
———————————————————————————————————————-
The only reason Sleeping Beauty was sleeping was because when Kermit flashed her, she was laughing so hard that she passed out. She woke up and asked if they’d caught that tadpole that flashed her. Just typical media hype. They always protect their own.
“I wouldn’t blame CC if he ultimately changed his mind, but that’s great to hear”
You’d think he’d at least have to evaluate things with his agent after next season. If he doesn’t opt out, that’s great. If he does, there is absolutely no dishonor in it.
I see Dustin Mosely got 900,000$ from the Padres. That’s good news for Sox. They can absorb that easily.
Bret-
I get that but on the open market I think someone will give Martin more money/longer contract and more guaranteed playing time. I just don’t think the Yanks will get him now. If they do then great. Cervelli or Montero end up back in AAA and the Yankees retain their catching depth and have the option to not rush Montero.
pat December 8th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Erin
Swish inheritted him. He?s Joanna?s BFF.
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I see.
I’m kind of interested to see if Alex will be there with Cameron. I just read the other day that they’re supposedly “off again”. LOL
If it?s such a red flag, why are the Yankees still pursuing Russell Martin?
-
Because Cervelli is horrible !…. cheap . . . . but horrible
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 9:49 am
The only reason Sleeping Beauty was sleeping was because when Kermit flashed her, she was laughing so hard that she passed out. She woke up and asked if they?d caught that tadpole that flashed her. Just typical media hype. They always protect their own.
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I have to admit I laughed, but you still get one of these:
JD,
Since Martin wants to start, the only scenario I see the yankees signing him is if Montero is traded for a starting pitcher. Cashman probably doesn’t want to be in that position (trading Montero) but he won’t be stuck without a starting catcher if that happens. That’s where a pursuit of Martin makes sense.
Have a happy day, Erin. All day long, that’s all you’ll see. Kermit The Flasher
YankeesWFAN RT @jcrasnick: Dustin Moseley will make a guaranteed $900,000 in his deal with the San Diego Padres,said a baseball source
GreenBeret7 December 8th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Have a happy day, Erin. All day long, that?s all you?ll see. Kermit The Flasher
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LOL
CC won’t opt out. He’s agent on the other hand….
“YankeesWFAN RT @jcrasnick: Dustin Moseley will make a guaranteed $900,000 in his deal with the San Diego Padres,said a baseball source”
Good for Moseley. Petco could work out quite well for him.
I once stood outside the Total Request Live studio in the rain when Lance Bass was on
(In my defense, we just happened to be walking through Times Square and decided to see what all of the screaming was about)
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The geek-test jury is reserving judgment until you reveal how many minutes you spent there.
Good to see you in here.
Can we trade A-Rod already…
The Yanks save Moseley’s sad career and then he tries to gouge them for a few bucks.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200.....-official/
for anyone who wants to see what people were talking about last year on this day.
seems a lot of people wanted cameron.
Martin will be gone before Cash trades Montero for a starting pitcher in my opinion. But I agree that’s kinda where the pursuit makes sense. Although, I always thought of Martin as Cervelli’s eventual replacement not Montero’s.
Raise your hand if you believe Cashman has a trade lined up for a starter should Lee sign elsewhere.
CC has left very little wiggle room in his comments on opting out. You would think that if it were.something he was considering then he would choose to use more ambiguous language. I don’t think he’ll do it……
Lee doesn’t sign elsewhere.
hand raised !
Ofcourse CC would say that now, why create an unwanted distraction. He probably doesn’t know if he’ll opt out yet…say the team has a rough year and he then decides in the offseason “I want to finish my career in California”. Most guys don’t decide far in advance unless they are in a real bad organization
JD December 8th, 2010 at 10:00 am
Martin will be gone before Cash trades Montero for a starting pitcher in my opinion.
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There are too many catchers on the market right now. That puts Martin’s status up in the air. He needs to wait until the market settles and he has a better idea of his value. Paulino, Olivo, Laird and others are still out there. His agent will need to compare him to those guys. Obviously he’s not getting a VMart deal so that contract did nothing to set Martin’s market.
I think the Yankees have time with Martin.
“The Yanks save Moseley’s sad career and then he tries to gouge them for a few bucks.”
They try working something out with him before non-tendering? Hadn’t heard that. Either way, SD is probably a better opportunity. Chance to start vs. chance to mop up. Hard to blame him for going that way.
watching football guy on cnn talk and morning fluff woman commentator talk about jeter and the yankees.
i hope they know more about other things than they knew about jeter and the yankees because they were just filling airtime winging it.
that sort of reporting just makes them look like lightweights.
randy l. December 8th, 2010 at 10:00 am
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200…..-official/
for anyone who wants to see what people were talking about last year on this day.
seems a lot of people wanted cameron.
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I banned the word “Cameron” on the blog and some people didn’t take too kindly to that.
I want extra credit
During the reporting after the CC signing, CC said that he didn’t really want the opt out clause, that it was Cashman’s idea to put it in so if CC didn’t like playing in NY he had an out.
CC has said a number of times now that he won’t opt out. While things could change between now and the opt out deadline, I tend to believe what he says.
Can we trade A-Rod already…
__
Yeah those 125 RBIs he put up last season, even missing time, was so horrible we should just give him away.
Heyman reporting Yanks close to a deal with Jeter. Stand by, Heyman says it could just be a rumor, he has no sources to confirm.
I don’t think CC has that much to gain opting out. How much more would he get? His agent would get his cut and the price of buying a new mansion and moving and all that. Plus the hassle of negotiations and the fan fall out. He might use the clause for leverage on an extension but the sponsorship deals are prob better in NY too. He doesn’t have enough to gain in my opinion. Especially if the Yankees have Lee and can hard line him like they almost did A-Rod.
Buster_ESPN
The Yankees are preparing to zig off Cliff Lee if necessary;Cashman had a long meeting Carl Crawford-related Tuesday;CC may have been there.
Buster_ESPN The Yankees are preparing to zig off Cliff Lee if necessary;Cashman had a long meeting Carl Crawford-related Tuesday;CC may have been there
There might be the Yankees’ message to the Lee camp that it’s coming up on time to act.
Erica in NY December 8th, 2010 at 9:47 am
Erin December 8th, 2010 at 9:35 am
pat-who knew Swish was friends with Lance Bass? LOL
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Completely random Erica fact-
I once stood outside the Total Request Live studio in the rain when Lance Bass was on
(In my defense, we just happened to be walking through Times Square and decided to see what all of the screaming was about)
_______________________________________________________________
( so yeah I have no defense, I waited all day in the rain to see lance bass)
HAHA well guess who was standing there with you! It was a really hot day in august if I remember correctly. I made some sort of sign but the rain ruined it
Mosely must have learned to gouge from the best.
My favorite Yankee gouging story has to be when they re-named my section “MVP seating” and increased the price 30%
Yeah, the upper deck reserved is just loaded with MVP’s.
this was a good post from that thread a yr ago:
# SJ44 December 9th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
I saw Nova pitch 4 times last year. I was really impressed with how much he improved.
I think he could be a guy that’s in the mix for a back end rotation role by mid-season.
I think his emergence made it easier for them to trade Kennedy.
Looks like Cashman is taking SJ’s advice
Braunecker can’t afford to have the Yankees bow out. Good strategy by Cashmoney.
Brett,
With all the catchers out there I think gives him more reason to sign the first good deal he gets offered. The market is moving quick this year. With his health in question I don’t think he is playing the market. I mean he just got non tendered fwiw.
Hmmmmmm.. Buster is usually a pretty good source, but its hard to know what to believe..
coney1 December 8th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Buster_ESPN
The Yankees are preparing to zig off Cliff Lee if necessary;Cashman had a long meeting Carl Crawford-related Tuesday;CC may have been there.
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I think they’re serious about Crawford regardless.
He will be a Yankee.
Mark this post.
“Hmmmmmm.. Buster is usually a pretty good source, but its hard to know what to believe..”
Buster gets nothing unless the Yankees are feeding to him. I really think they’re sending a message to Lee and his agent.
Interesting. Olney suggests if Pettitte retires the Yankees could afford both Lee and Crawford? Understanding pitching wins, could this make sense? I imagine a trade of Swisher or Gardner would follow packaged with prospects to try and get a decent number three type pitcher.
good morning gentlemen & ladies,
“Yankees GM Brian Cashman had a long Crawford-related meeting yesterday, tweets ESPN’s Buster Olney. Crawford may have attended. Olney feels the Yankees are “preparing to zig off Cliff Lee if necessary.” Meanwhile Olney’s colleague Jayson Stark tweets that the Yankees are hinting that if Andy Pettitte retires, it becomes more likely they can afford both Crawford and Lee”
“The Yankees can still compete without Lee,”
lgy-
compete?
since when is it the yankee mandate from ownership to just compete?
it’s pretty obvious that the yankees have to sign lee to make the kind of team that fans expect.
if they don’t get lee, making the playoffs is not a given.
the price they pay for not preparing for this season better with starters is they’ll have to overpay for lee.
they should take their medicine, overpay, and move on trying to make sure that they don’t get in this predicament again.
at some point they have to start producing more than one starter every 5 years from their minor league system. hughes is very nice, but he’s one guy in five years of cashman. he’s got to do better than that.
Reason to watch Andy Pettitte retirement rumors: #Yankees hinting if Pettitte retires, makes it more likely they can afford Lee & Crawford
http://twitter.com/jaysonst/st.....8742330369
JD,
Why should he sign before the others? He can argue that he’s better than those guys and deserves more money than they get.
What can he say about VMart?
“I deserve a lot less than him.”?
That’s it.
just going by reports
Its unreal that Braunecker refuses to take an initial offer from the Yanks !.
already posted. My bad
Offer sent. Message sent. Lee to Yankees. Lee/Bra take money and shut the circus down.
NYY626 and Erica – I saw Lance Bass out with his bf near Washington Square Park once.. I gotta say, even though I’ve always had a personal affinity for the Backstreet Boys over Nsync, he was a very good lookin kid in person.
Bret- Health concerns and he isn’t is good as your making him out to be.
Is “zig off” good or bad?
Not familiar with that term.
Mell – Very true.
I’m skeptical that what Andy decides will determine if we get Crawford. I’m not sure how that makes any sense in the long term, unless the Yanks are that concerned with the 2011 payroll alone. Andy works on a year to year basis and would only (probably) sign a 1 year deal anyway. So you take him off the books and its all of a sudden okay to add a 6-8 year deal for more than $100 million? I don’t think I’m buying this..
Lee has ever right to take his time and weigh all of his options but you can tell the Yanks are really starting to get impatient. Someone on this blog yesterday had a great post about the Yanks offering no more than 6 years. Then the Nats were going to offer 7. Yanks would still go only 6. Then the Nats dropped out. Yanks still go 6. Then a mystery team will go 7. Yanks still only going 6. Now a second mystery team will go 7. Yanks still going 6.
Enough is enough. If you want to play in NY, then make a deal. I understand he’s earned the right to do it his way and take his time. But obviously leaking that the Yanks had a meeting regarding Crawford is a sign that they can push back and play these media games too, basically showing they’re ready for other options. Cash has been respectful of Braunecker and hasn’t made a formal offer yet (so we’ve been told). Let’s move this along, shall we?
NYY626 – Andy in 2011 December 8th, 2010 at 10:14 am
( so yeah I have no defense, I waited all day in the rain to see lance bass)
*****************************
a friend of mine in high school was really, really into N’Sync. She saw them in concert I don’t know how many times and had posters up all over her room. Now she’s like “what the hell was I thinking?” LOL
JD,
Martin will get more than those other guys despite the health concerns. Even when unhealthy he produces on their level. His upside will get him more money than those guys. He’s an all star when healthy.
whether the Yankees sign Cliff Lee or not. If NYY lands Carl Crawford, they should flip Brett Gardner, Joba, and prospects for Zach Grienke.
I think its pretty simple.
The Yankees want action. If Lee’s agent wants to continue to play games, which he is welcome to do, the Yankees are prepared to move on.
If the Yankees vacate the Lee Market, he’s not getting a 6 year, let alone a 7 year, deal from anybody.
His AAV will also take a whack.
With the Yankees out of the picture, Lee’s market plummets.
That’s why I said, Lee’s agent is riding a slippery slope here.
I have never heard of a club and agent holding 3 meetings and the agent refusing to take bids on the player.
At some point, you move on.
You want to really shake things up if you are the Yankees?
Leak to Buster you wish Lee well, and sign Crawford and Martin today.
Then, you leak you have the parts to obtain Greinke and it will be light setting off a bomb in the Winter Meetings.
You don’t mess with the Yankees. They know how to play the role of the bully.
As good as Cliff Lee is, and he is VERY good, don’t think for a minute the Yankees have put all their off-season eggs in his basket.
They haven’t.
If I was Mr. Lee, I’d interrupt my hunting trip, call my agent and tell him to get crackin’ or he may find himself out quite a few millions over the next couple of days.
randy,
The playoffs are never a given. Even if they sign Lee they are not. Pitchers are so fragile and the season is so long that you never know what is going to happen.
With Lee they are a very, very strong team and their chance of making the playoffs is greater with him than without him.
But without Lee they can still build a strong team.
Any team that signs Lee is going to have to overpay. That is just how free agency works.
Cliff Lee
Sabathia
Grienke
Burnett
Nova
I think Braunecker is trying to handle these Lee negotiations like Boras handled Tex a couple years ago.
Anyone agree?
Cliff Lee
Sabathia
Grienke
Hughes
Burnett
As good as Cliff Lee is, and he is VERY good, don’t think for a minute the Yankees have put all their off-season eggs in his basket.
********
Precisely.
like I wrote yesterday, team Lee needs to sh*t or get off the pot, as the saying goes…
I have never heard of a club and agent holding 3 meetings and the agent refusing to take bids on the player.
- ITs absurd to me as well !!! 3 meetings and no offer ?? What exactly are they talking about , , The Weather ? World Peace ? Hot Vacation Spots ? i don’t get it
Keith Law:
- Yankees should NOT go 7 years on Cliff Lee. His reommendation
- Yankees should trade for Grienke (via pkg of Jesus Montero and others), if NYY doesn’t get Cliff Lee
I always thought Lance Bass could be Jeter’s twin brother…… Or his secret identity!
If they did sign Crawford you would think Granderson would be the one to go since he’s more expensive than Gardner and cannot play RF like Swisher.
Then again, they may just trade Gardner, Joba and some other parts for Fausto Carmona and look at that as a huge upgrade over Vazquez, for example.
Personally I think it’s reasonable to assume AJ will be more like he was in 2008-09 than the mess he was at the end of last season. Adding Carmona to Hughes and CC and letting Nova/Noesi et al compete for the No. 5 spot is fine with me.
Every day All-Star position players in their prime is a pretty rare thing on the FA market.
Lee’s agent needs to “get jiggy with it” ASAP
“I think Braunecker is trying to handle these Lee negotiations like Boras handled Tex a couple years ago.”
Don’t think Boras ever refused to take offers from the Yankees or anyone else.
You want to really shake things up if you are the Yankees?
Leak to Buster you wish Lee well, and sign Crawford and Martin today.
Then, you leak you have the parts to obtain Greinke and it will be light setting off a bomb in the Winter Meetings.
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you the man, SJ.
love it.
SJ44 -
I agree, let Lee know it’s time to start dealing. The Winter Meetings are the place to get business done, and if Lee’s camp is just enjoying all the attention, let them know they’re not the only game in town, move on, and have them chase the Yankees for a meeting and an offer.
Me, I want Lee, but, I’m tiring of all this role playing.
Has Martin been hurt for half of his 5 year career?
He’s been bad since the 2nd half of ’08.
2nd half of ’08: .708 OPS/OPS+ 89
’09: .680 OPS/OPS+ 85
’10: .679 OPS/OPS+ 89
I’m not seeing what the upside is with him. He’s been stagnant for the last 2 1/2 years, And now he’s coming off a broken hip.
LGY,
No, I don’t think so. The Yankees and Boras had cleaner/more open dialogue than what’s going on here. Lee’s agent is trying to be “different” so he stands out.
Which, BTW, is his right.
The problem is, for all the leaking he’s doing to Jon Heyman and others, I don’t get the impression the Yankees are in panic mode.
I could see them move off Lee, sign Crawford and Martin (if he’s healthy), and put the parts together to pull a Greinke trade.
If they went that route, they would try and convince Andy to give it one more year.
Either way, at some point, the game of chicken has to end.
The Yankees want to pay Cliff Lee a LOT of money.
If he doesn’t want it, they have a LOT of money to put into the marketplace.
Either way, its all good from the Yankees side of things.
If you are on Lee’s side? If the Yankees leave your marketplace, you take a BIG hit.
“Then again, they may just trade Gardner, Joba and some other parts for Fausto Carmona”
________________________________
for ‘Car Bomb’. No Thanks. Nova or Novesi may prove to be jus as good.
The Yankees overpay for players they want – it’s what they do. Because they can and other clubs can’t. Financially they can handle taking the risk that a player will run out of steam so to speak a year or two early.
There is lots to legitimately criticize Cashman for over the years, but I believe with a great deal of certainty that he is working hard on other options that give him control back. Sitting around waiting for Lee to control the Yankees destiny is not going to continue forever.
SJ-
What a great post!
Tom -
Let’s hope the RS do sign him, then their catching problem could get even worse.
Let Lee go to the Nats,he’ll be out of the AL…then sign Crawford and trade Nick Whiffer,Joba and prospects for a pitcher….
Every winter people draw up lists of who the best free agents are and designate the guy who is the “top free agent.” Usually it gets broken down by position player and pitcher.
The guy perceived to be at the top of those lists almost always make enormous money.
This way of thinking is a kind of category error. It speaks more to the supply of talent that happens to be out of contract in any given year than it does to the inherent value of that player.
As an example, if he doesn’t sign an extension, Pujols will next season will be the “top free agent” position player. It’s silly to think of just because some guy has to be “top free agent” position player this season that he’s somehow comparable to Pujuls.
Looking at the value of individual players through the lens of categories like this is just not a good idea because it’s a way of removing granular detail from the picture of their true value.
And this season, the player who is being obscured this way to the greatest benefit is Carl Crawford.
Crawford is a very good player. He’s not remotely worth a 120M + contract. Not close.
His perceived value is being grossly inflated by the limited supply of talent. It’s that limited supply of talent that makes him the “top free agent” amongst position players.
But just because Joe Mauer decided to sign an extension last year and not test free agency, doesn’t mean that Carl Crawford becomes a better baseball player.
And on a related note regarding these kinds of errors of category. For the past few years we’ve heard how certain teams shouldn’t sign certain players because of how great the 2010-11 free agent “class” was going to be.
That was said about Matt Holliday a ton last winter. Don’t sign Holliday. Save the cash so you can spend on the great “class” next year.
But there’s really no such thing as a cohesive free agent “class.” And as Mauer and Halliday, etc. signed extensions the 2010 winter free agent “class” became rather mediocre suddenly.
Signing Crawford while having passed on Matt Holliday last winter would be one of the most poorly thought out, shortsighted mistakes the Yankees would have made for years.
Holliday is the player the yankees needed if they were concerned about the aging of the line up. They passed on that player at a reasonable price last season. Holliday is a true superstar.
You don’t spend 120M + on a “plan B.” You spend 120M+ on an elite player that you need.
resign Carl Pavano!!!! Just kidding!!
SJ is ON FIRE this morning!!!
Dayum!
I LOVE IT!!!
Organic coffee???
JackCurryYES Asked exec from one of Cliff Lee’s former teams about the pursuit. He said the Angels always lie in the weeds and could surprise people
If Frank Viola is wanting to get back in the game, NYYs would be smart to hire him as a roving pitching instructor. Teach the entire system to throw his change-up.
actually, would prefer the Yankees do pass on Lee. 5 years will prove too long for him. Let alone 6 or 7.
if Grienke has to be traded (my fave starting pitcher in baseball) would prefer it be to the Yankees.
It would be crazy to think what would be going on right now if Halladay did not sign that extension.
He did Lee a HUGE favor.
If Frank Viola is wanting to get back in the game, NYYs would be smart to hire him as a roving pitching instructor. Teach the entire system to throw his change-up.
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very intelligent idea. And he’s from the Tri-state area. Have SJ44 forward this note to Cashman
I never get caught up in agent noise. I’ve dealt with enough of them in my lifetime never to take this stuff personally.
The Yankees have a timetable for wanting to do things.
If it doesn’t mesh with Cliff Lee’s, so be it.
Unless my math is off, the Yankees have won 26 World Championships without Cliff Lee on their roster.
Again, unless my math is off, Cliff Lee has lead exactly ZERO teams to World Championships.
As good as he is, and he’s very good, he’s not bigger than the Yankees.
No one player is, as Derek Jeter found out during his contract negotiations.
I can make a great argument for having Cliff Lee in pinstripes for 6 years.
I can make no argument for having him here for 7 years.
I would sign Carl Crawford tomorrow for 7 years and not blink.
Different strokes for different folks.
SJ,
Do you think they are even talking parameters in these meetings?
SJ44 December 8th, 2010 at 10:42 am
I would sign Carl Crawford tomorrow for 7 years and not blink.
*********
Well I’ll be dipped in buttermilk.
WE AGREE!!!
Sj-
Not that i don’t love Grienke ?? but is he the only trade option as far as starting pitchers go ? Is there some wild card or mystery starter that we haven’t heard of yet they yankees could trade for ?
SJ-
What would you do with Gardner if you were to sign Crawford?
“The playoffs are never a given.”
lgy-
when a team spends over 200 million very year , the playoffs should be a given every year.
a gm has to be really incompetent to spend 200 milion and not have players good enough to make the playoffs.
let’s get real.
the yankees have two starters who are good.
without lee , the yankees will have to make all kinds of personnel adjustments with a trade of some sort to get a quality starter.
cashman can huff and puff with lee’s agent, but the reality is the yankees are between a rock and a hard place.
the yankees weren’t in on the bidding for werth and that didn’t stop werth from getting a monster contract. i’m not so sure that lee’s value drops so mich if the yankees try to play the bully with him.
if his price really did drop, i wouldn’t be surprised to se the red sox jump in for a cheap(relative) signing ad then trade someone from their rotation.
no cashman has knocked his drive in the woods( by not developing another starter) and now needs to take his medicine and chip sideways into the fairway by overpaying for lee and then move on.
if he doesn’t take his medicine, and tries to swing his way out of the woods , he opens the door to much more going wrong.
“Unless my math is off, the Yankees have won 26 World Championships without Cliff Lee on their roster”
My calculations had it at 27.
Cashman talked yesterday about going back and forth on some trades.
If they have a reasonable trade lined up and a SP they want. Maybe a Floyd?
I would consider pulling the trigger. You can never have too much SP and you can always move excess SP.
SJ – do you agree with CB’s take that we should have tried to get Holliday instead of getting Crawford?
a gm has to be really incompetent to spend 200 milion and not have players good enough to make the playoffs.
___
Boston spent over 170 and they didnt make the playoffs. Sometimes, many injuries hit, bad years, etc…. Even with 200 M its not a guarantee, and it doesnt make Cashman or Theo incompetent.
randy- “a gm has to be really incompetent to spend 200 milion and not have players good enough to make the playoffs.”
2008? Don’t kid yourself, we’ve been very, very lucky. A handful of injuries to the wrong guys and any team can tank.
“no cashman has knocked his drive in the woods( by not developing another starter) and now needs to take his medicine and chip sideways into the fairway by overpaying for lee and then move on.”
—————————-
Time to really get randy going
Cashman developed Wanger!
Wang go hurt unfortunately, but that comes along with the territory of developing SP.
Actually, your math is off.
That’s 27 championships.
new post —–>
CB,
I’ll tell you why, if Lee goes elsewhere, I would do a Crawford/Greinke Plan B.
The game is changing. There is greater value being placed on defense, speed, athleticism and, as always, pitching.
Crawford is a dynamic offensive and defensive player.
Hitting second in the Yankee lineup, he could be a real force.
Greinke is younger, with a friendlier contract than Lee, and can balance out the rotation.
Would it mean giving up significant minor league assets? Yes and no.
The Red Sox certainly didn’t give up their entire farm system to get Gonzalez.
I think the Yankees have the pieces to do a deal like that and still retain significant farm assets.
Either way, I just don’t get the impression they are going to wait on Lee much longer.
As badly as they want him, they have been working on other things all week.
I get the feeling they are ready to pull the trigger on some things and what Lee ends up doing may shift to the back burner.
New Post: The Yankees and Carl Crawford
Shocking as it is to some here, the Yankees don’t control/move/dictate everything. It only takes two teams to create a market. So as long as Texas has someone bidding against them, then Lee will get his money.
The Yankees need Lee more than he needs them. They especially can’t let Texas get him since the Yankees haven’t improved and Texas already has shown they can beat them in the playoffs.
Their other concern would be that if they did indeed drive his price down, then Boston might get seriously involved.
Lee is in the driver’s seat, not Cashman.
Carmona was very good last year. He had a 3.77 ERA, made 33 starts and pitched 210 innings. He rediscovered his sinker and it made a world of difference
And he’s only 27 (as of yesterday)
He’s not Grienke, but he’s an upgrade to the rotation without a doubt and would not cost as much prospect wise.
I don’t trust Greinke. I thought he had great potential years ago and argued with my cousin that the Yanks should have traded for him about a year or two before he had that breakdown. Now it seems he worked out his issues and is coming into his own regarding his talent. I just don’t trust a guy that has two good years under his belt. Is that worth trading Monetero? If Ubaldo Jimenez puts together another solid season, we’ll all be shouting for the Yanks to trade for him too. Again, what does he have at this point besides one good season?
I wonder if the “not taking offers” for Lee is an effort to get the additional year, and its caused a loss of focus on the agent’s part.
Wouldn’t be the first time someone over played their hand and ended up with less than what could have been.
I can understand having a meeting to discuss parameters of what each side is looking for in a deal. Even two, though that might be stretching it. At some point you have milked it too much. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but the Yankees are clearly reaching a point where they are ready to either S**T or get off the pot with Lee.
Heyman says Yankees will make strong offer to Cliff Lee today. Wonder what strong means? $25? $26
“As good as he is, and he’s very good, he’s not bigger than the Yankees.
No one player is, as Derek Jeter found out during his contract negotiations.”
sj44-
the only thing jeter found out is that saying that he didn’t want to go anywhere else and would not look anywhere else could and would hurt him in negotiations.
you seem to think the present yankee management is bigger than the yankees.
despite the fact that the present yankee management has only produced one legitimate starter in five years of focusing on the minor league system, shouldn’t the yankee ownership hire someone who can actually run a minor league system that actually gets the job done?
or is your position that brian cashman is bigger than the yankees?
cashman has screwed up by getting the yankees in this weak position of having only two good starters.
i don’t see how he gets to be huffy with anyone.
he’s the one who needs to raise his game .
derek jeter is not the weak link on the yankees.
the weak link is the management who can’t get any continuity in their pitching coach or pitching development program at the minor league and major league level.
they get guys like burnett and vazquez and joba and turn them into plus 5.00 era starters.
this looking everywhere else , but where the problem really lies is ,well … baffling
i would have no problem in agreeing with you that cashman should get tough with lee if he would have developed the farm system the way he should have.
with the holes in the rotation, cashman just needs to pay the piper and try to get better with the minor league system in the future.