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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees select LHP Fish and RHP Turpen in Rule 5

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 09, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees added two and lost two in this morning’s Rule 5 draft. They were only active in the Major League phase. They did not select anyone, and they did not lose anyone in the minor league rounds.

Fair warning, the guys they did add are not going to jump out as overly impressive additions. That’s the way it works in the Rule 5. It’s all about taking a chance on talent and finding a cheap role player. The Dan Uggla and Josh Hamilton success stories rarely happen, and even then they’re wildly unpredictable.

This morning, the Yankees added two pitchers.

ph_502061Robert Fish
Left handed
22 years old

A converted starter, 2010 was his first full season in the bullpen. The results were uninspiring with an 8.93 ERA and a .356 opponents batting average in Double-A. Baseball America notes that his fastball gets into the mid-90s, and as a former starter, it’s easy to imagine him as a second bullpen lefty with the ability to pitch multiple innings when necessary. He does have pretty good strikeout numbers, but clearly this pick wasn’t about the numbers.

ph_446305Daniel Turpen
Right handed
24 years old

A reliever throughout his career, Turpen doesn’t generate as many strikeouts as Fish, but he gets plenty of ground balls. My friend Donnie Collins writes that Turpen throws with a kind of side arm angle, and has a fastball with good sink. He doesn’t seem to be a typically overpowering, but one report Donnie cites compares his upside to David Weathers. If that plays out, the Yankees will surely be thrilled.

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352 Responses to “Yankees select LHP Fish and RHP Turpen in Rule 5”

  1. ac1 December 9th, 2010 at 11:58 am

    So?

  2. justinxdance27 December 9th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Turpen look’s like Joba’s brother

  3. Zach S December 9th, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Fish is destined to be a Marlin.

  4. start_wearing_pink December 9th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    i think the key to the red sox and yankees this coming year will be russell martin. and fitting that Martin’s decision has come down to us and them. It would be a real nice steal to get Martin, now that they have CC and Ellsbury.

  5. Erin December 9th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    Is it just me or do they both look a lot like Joba??? LOL

  6. Carl December 9th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    They both look like Joba

  7. Carl December 9th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    lol exactly Erin

  8. start_wearing_pink December 9th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    They both have a slight resemblance to Joba, hehe

  9. Mike Ri December 9th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Turpen look?s like Joba?s brother

    — he does look like Joba ! LOL

  10. start_wearing_pink December 9th, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    guess im not the only one that sees it, hehe

  11. Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Cash left the Winter Meetings?

    What about all these trade talks he had fired up?

    He’s such a paranoid GM, afraid to pull the trigger.

    I’m shocked he traded for Granderson last year.

  12. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Sources told ESPNNewYork.com and ESPN.com that the original offer to Lee was for six years and $140 million. Another source briefed on the talks told ESPN.com?s Jerry Crasnick that the new offer is for less than the average ($23.3 million per year) of the original six-year offer.

  13. rodg12 December 9th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 11:52 am

    Morning, Rodg. Doing well here, thanks. How are you and those cows doing on the farm? Hope that you guys have an easy winter. Only 3 times a year should it snow. Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve.

    Those numbers I tossed up there are pretty standard rookie numbers for ROY candidates.
    —————————————
    Doing well here, too. Weather’s been good (for here) so far. Cold, but manageable. Supposed to get some snow today, maybe. Bigger storm projected for Saturday. We’ll see what happens.

    Really excited for Montero in the Bronx, as I said earlier. Haven’t been this excited about a Yankees prospect since Jeter. I know they’ll be some struggles early, though. Just hope he can hack it well enough defensively that that’s not an issue.

  14. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    These dudes look angry. I like it.

  15. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    “Posada was a great offensive catcher. Posada is not a good DH at present.”

    ——————-

    The average DH last year hit .252 with a .758 OPS.

    DH’s generally are overrated.

  16. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Relief pitchers should always look angry.

  17. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    I should probably rephrase that.

    People generally overrate what the average DH gives you.

  18. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    He’s such a paranoid GM, afraid to pull the trigger.

    I’m shocked he traded for Granderson last year.
    -

    Cause if there is one thing Cash is afraid to do, its pull the trigger.

    *ignores reams of trades in past decade by Cash*

  19. Carl December 9th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    # Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    Sources told ESPNNewYork.com and ESPN.com that the original offer to Lee was for six years and $140 million. Another source briefed on the talks told ESPN.com?s Jerry Crasnick that the new offer is for less than the average ($23.3 million per year) of the original six-year offer.

    150/7

  20. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Thanks for the info on the 2 newest Yankee suspects, Chad. Were you surprised that the Yankees didn’t get hurt? Other than 27 year old Pendleton and the ever erratic Kontos, the losses were minimal.

  21. blake December 9th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Pete abe on mlbradio now

  22. CB December 9th, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Chad-

    Yesterday you wrote that the Yanks had targeted 5 players. Any sense of whether these two were on that list of 5?

    Alternatively, if the Yanks won’t speak to that, did you get the sense that if one of those 5 wasn’t available that the Yanks would just pass?

  23. Carl December 9th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    Cash pulled the trigger on a deal for Cliff Lee didn’t he?

  24. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    I think getting that 7th year is important to Lee at this point.

  25. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    As it was reported, we know Elvin Ramirez was one of the 5

  26. Carlo December 9th, 2010 at 12:07 pm

    LGY – I don’t disagree with your premise, but we are the yankees and having a “average DH” is not really optimal, especially in the AL East.

  27. ac1 December 9th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    7/161 is less than 23.3 / year. its 23. just like cc.

  28. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Also, I think the Yankees putting out there that they went to 7, even if the dollar amount is the same they would have gone for 6, sends a strong message to any other team involved, WE WILL NOT BE STOPPED! :mad:

  29. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    LGY – I don’t disagree with your premise, but we are the yankees and having a “average DH” is not really optimal, especially in the AL East.

    You think Posada is going to OPS .758 or under?

  30. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Rodg, that’s good news about your weather. Your real problems will start in March and April when the snow melts and floods the rivers.

  31. Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Plan B is gone. Plan A is on hold. And Cash walks out of the Winter Meetings when he supposedly had all these trade talks fired up.

    Can all he do is bluff, then fold?

  32. Captain Clutch December 9th, 2010 at 12:11 pm

    It definitely doesn’t look good for the Yanks that Lee and his agent are allowing the Rangers to come and meet with him again. They already told his agent to tell them an amount it will take to sign him…there is no reason to meet for a 3rd time.

  33. ac1 December 9th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    ESPN first take just made a good point.

    Sox signed A-Gon and Crawford, but it is a wash with Beltre (A-Gon) and Martinez/Crawford.

    Its a wash offensively (mostly). The pitching is still an issue for boston, so i am not as worried as others.

  34. Mell December 9th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    “LGY – I don’t disagree with your premise, but we are the yankees and having a “average DH” is not really optimal, especially in the AL East”

    Won’t speak for LGY, but I believe the point may have been that DH’s have not typically been .850-.900 OPS type bats. People hear DH and think Thome or maybe Ortiz. Those are the exceptions rather than the rule. The idea that a full season of Posada at DH would amount to anything other than well above average DH production is probably a misguided one.

  35. ac1 December 9th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    Plan B is gone. Plan A is on hold. And Cash walks out of the Winter Meetings when he supposedly had all these trade talks fired up.

    __

    You do know people can make deals after the meetings right?

  36. Chad Jennings December 9th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

    It was my understanding that the Yankees would pass if one of the five wasn’t available, but that might not have been the case. It’s amazing how quickly people scatter when the Rule 5 is over. Cashman addressed the media as soon as the Major League phase ended, and he was out of there before the end of the minor league phase. I’m sure there will be more interviews about the Rule 5 guys later on, but right now obviously the focus remains on Lee and other targets.

  37. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Laying groundwork for trades during the winter meetings is what a GM does. Completing trades takes time. Completely different than even 15 years ago. Stop whining because you didn’t get your way.

  38. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:14 pm

    Crawford makes Boston a better team but they overpaid by A LOT. It won’t hurt them in the near term, but in the long term it will be pretty damaging.

    The Red Sox are good but if we get Lee the Yankees are still the better team.

  39. Red Lobster December 9th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    To counter these Sox moves, we need a legit set-up man now. Forget guys like Downs, Feliciano, etc. We need more than a matchup guy.

    Get Marmol from the Cubs. Highest K/9 of any reliever.

    I also think we need Greinke to replace Andy as well as Upton/Rasmus to replace Swisher to upgrade the offense. People can talk about the pitching all they want, but the offense let us down plenty last year.

    For Upton/Rasmus:

    Swisher, Romine, Betances, Phelps, Nunez

    For Greinke:

    Montero, Joba, Laird, Nova,

    For Marmol:

    Brackman, Murphy, Noesi, Adams

    We get 3 top-notch players while still keeping Banuolous, Sanchez, Heathcott plus Stoneburner, Warren, Marshall, J. Ramirez, etc. (though I am open to sweetening the pots with one of those guys).

    Again, we have to make moves and we are in a great position to do so with a beefed up farm system. Cash just has to get creative and utilize his chips. He can’t let Lee hold up everything. Lee’s offer is on the table… let him start wheeling and dealing in the meantime. I hope their only move this winter isn’t just caving for Lee

  40. start_wearing_pink December 9th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    @Bret

    What are you talking about?

    Trades dont have to get done over the Winter Meetings. Still have a few months until the season. Hold your horses, bro.

  41. Mike Ri December 9th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Brett — how do you know Plan B is done ???

  42. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    So is the Red Sox lineup 100% L and S now? Lee and Sabathia are going to own these guys

  43. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Red Lobster – Wood will be a pretty legit setup man.

  44. vinny-b December 9th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    # Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
    Cash left the Winter Meetings?
    What about all these trade talks he had fired up?
    He’s such a paranoid GM, afraid to pull the trigger.
    I’m shocked he traded for Granderson last year.
    ———————————-

    I took it you were better then this, Brett

  45. Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    teams most aggressive on greinke are #rangers, #brewers, #dodgers, #bluejays, #nats (via @DKnobler)

    less than a minute ago via web

  46. CB December 9th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Chad-

    Thanks. Makes sense.

  47. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Oh whoops forgot Youk and Pedroia.. silly me

  48. Bob December 9th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    Yanks pitching needs to be lefty more than ever. Maybe we can shop at Ned Flanders Lefty emporium the Leftorium.

  49. Yank 97 December 9th, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    “It definitely doesn’t look good for the Yanks that Lee and his agent are allowing the Rangers to come and meet with him again. They already told his agent to tell them an amount it will take to sign him…there is no reason to meet for a 3rd time.”

    Perhaps just the perception that the Rangers are being so aggressive will prompt Cash to be open to negotiating even more.

    His agent is having fun with this and I’m sure Lee is as well. Don’t see it stopping anytime soon. Within the hour, we’ll probably get a report that the Angels have lef Orlando and are on their way to Arkansas.

  50. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    SI_JonHeyman

    Last teams owners or GM’s I saw walk by the bathroom are #rangers, #brewers, #dodgers, #bluejays, #nats (via @DKnobler)

  51. pat December 9th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    jonmorosi It’s official: #Twins acquire Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson from #Orioles for Hardy, Harris and $500,000. #Minnesota #Baltimore #MLB

  52. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 9th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    ac1,

    Its almost a wash.

    I’d argue that most teams would much rather have AGon and Carl than Beltre and Martinez, especially when they can shift Youk to 3B.

    But are they drastically improved? No.

  53. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:18 pm

    West Coast Yankee Fan December 9th, 2010 at 10:25 am
    “As soon as an executive of another team heard about the Red Sox’ deal with outfielder Carl Crawford (reportedly a seven-year, $142 million pact), the reaction was immediate”.
    “Holy [expletive],” he said. “Think about that lineup.”

    Note: team executive, not IR or Jerface.
    ************************************************
    Crawford a very good ballplayer yes, elite no.

    The RS line-up is not much different than last years, with all the holes still in place.

    You seem to forget they lost V-Mart and Beltre, and added A-Gon and Crawford in those places. If you look at the combined numbers, it’s just about a wash. The RS still have major pitching and catching worries, so, I do not think they are much stronger than last season, all they did was plug the holes they had with the loss of Beltre and V-Mart.

    V-Mart: BA .302, OBP .351, SLG .493, OPS .844, OPS+ 122
    Beltre: BA .321, OBP .365, SLG .553, OPS .919, OPS + 141
    A-Gon: BA .298, OBP .393, SLG .511, OPS .904, OPS+ 152
    Crawford: BA .307, OBP .356, SLG .495, OPS .851, OPS+ 134
    Now tell me again why this line-up is so scary to you or any GM that compares 2010 to 2011?

    Let’s just see how all those injured RS players are come ST.

    By the way, what is the name of that executive that made that statement you quoted?

  54. michaels07 December 9th, 2010 at 12:19 pm

    Red Lobster, nice try bu your not the Yankees GM, you are just playing moving bodies.

  55. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Hardy to the Orioles for more scrub pitchers.

    Orioles shoring up the team in all the wrong ways. Someone has to pitch.

  56. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    If I offered you a trade A Gone and Crawford for Beltre and VMart would you do it? I would. There are a few reasons, but the main one is that there are numerous players around the league who you can get to hit 25+ homers and knock a 100 runs in in that lineup. But there are only a handful that can hit 300 steal 50+ bags for you. If healthy a Magglio Ordonez could put up a big year. But no old vet will give you what Crawford does.

  57. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Uncooked Crab,

    you want to trade 13 players…the best in the system at their positions, for 3 players? You need to go join your boy toys, Bret and Chip in the timeout corner.

  58. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    but but but … Cashman had a steak with Crawford *sob*

  59. 4time December 9th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Guys like Wood, Feliciano, Downs, Fuentes, etc. are not going to wait around forever waiting for Lee and the Yankees to make up a mind. If they get a good offer, they are going to grab it.

    Cash has to be able to multi-task or he is going to end up missing out on some necessary bullpen arms or be forced to overpay for what is left by the time Lee is done deciding. Getting as 2nd lefty is a must.

  60. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Ha an exceutive from another team as reported by a Boston reporter. Did he happen to also submit one of the two phantom seven year offers to Lee or is he simply the brother of a “source close to”?

  61. pat December 9th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Rangers requested meeting with Lee, plan to increase offer beyond five years.

  62. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    I would definitely take Gonzalez and Crawford over Beltre and VMart. There’s no denying the Red Sox have upgraded their team. But down the road that Crawford contract is really going to hurt. He’s not a $20 million player now and he certainly won’t be when he’s 35

  63. saucY December 9th, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Rob Fish, they should expand and let him use the number ’108′

    anyone?

  64. Red Lobster December 9th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Forget to add – my plan requires us to sign Martin.

  65. Mike Ri December 9th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Rangers requested meeting with Lee, plan to increase offer beyond five years.

    -

    Well thats semi good news… At least it wasn’t Lee Requesting the Rangers.. but still .. I wish these visits would stop and Lee would just make up his mind ! .

  66. Erin December 9th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
    but but but ? Cashman had a steak with Crawford *sob*

    **************************

    :lol:

  67. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Sox aren’t vastly improved offensively, but they sure secured a lineup going forward with some better youth to it and have definitely solved a few needs they would have had in free agency. They needed a 1B or 3B that could field and hit. And with Drew entering free agency, Ellsbury a question mark and Cameron in LF they needed an OF. So I don’t think they are so scary a lineup, but much better than a week ago when V Mart signed and Beltre looked gone too with Werth to the Nats.

  68. Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    I want to keep Banuelos as a weapon against Boston’s lefties. If Cashman trades for Greinke, Banuelos is blocked.

    Aside from signing Lee and Pettitte, I want Cash to trade for Justin Upton for LF – be aggressive – pull the trigger – overpay.

    Same goes for a Marmol trade. Make him the setup guy and the next closer in 2 years if he does well – be aggressive -pull the trigger – overpay. They wanted Gardner last off season. Give them Gardner + Joba +

    Sign Russell Martin to control the running game and support Jesus Montero in tough match ups against the likes of Crawford and Ellsbury.

    Next year, let Posada walk, move ARod to DH, Jeter to 3b and sign Jose Reyes to be shortstop and leadoff hitter. Don’t let Boston get him to be their next shortstop.

  69. blake December 9th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Well its either increase beyond 5 or bow out. Probably making a 6 year offer and hoping that cowboy boots and 10 gallon hats are enough to make up the gap.

  70. G. Love December 9th, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Heh, I vaguely remember Gammons crowing about Daniel Turpen in one of his slobberfest reports on the Red Sox can’t miss prospects.

    Anyway, I’m still concerned about the Yankees for 2011. If we miss out on Lee, I’ll be more than “concerned”.

    I’ve watched this group enough to know they don’t hit with any kind of consistency. It’s a feast or famine offense. Luckily, in the regular season it’s enough “feast” to get us to the post season but it’s still very troubling.

    A lot of things get clouded by the fact that we make the playoffs. That said, we rolled up and folded against Texas and couldn’t hit pitchers who we should have destroyed.

    Either it’s age or the mentality that Mattingly used to talk about where there’s too many stars on the team so everyone is less intense thinking the next star will bail the team out.

    I’m worried about the age and decline in our lineup and I’m very worried we overpaid heavily for Texeira and he’s not the player he was on paper before he came here and might turn out to be another Giambi offensively. Defensively there’s no comparison obviously.

    I hope Jeter is angry enough to prove to baseball that he’s not done and comes back and hits next season.

    As for DH, I would sign a bat from what’s out there. I don’t believe in Jorge Posada as DH. If he hits .250, Tex hits .250, Jeter hits .270 and Arod hits .270 we’re in trouble.

    That said, the Red Sox are looking like the lead dog right now and historically they don’t fare too well with the bullseye on their backs.

    I would never want the Yankees to sign Crawford to that kind of deal. That fanbase will be downright cruel to him if they don’t think he’s living up to the money. Especially, since he’s making so much more than the gritty gutty Pedroia and Youkilis.

    The one thing I can get a kick out of is how the Red Sox have basically admitted in a huge way that their vaunted farm system is a bust. All the hyperbole we’ve been fed over the years about this renaissance of prospects coming to save Boston from having to spend to keep up with the Yankees was a load of garbage.

    If we’re supposedly “Bad” for baseball, they’re just as bad or worse considering the dollars they guaranteed Crawford.

    I hope Cashman has tricks up his sleeve and everything, besides Lee, wasn’t just a bluff he was speculating about.

    Regardless of what the Red Sox just did, we need a premium bat unless you really believe that Jeter, Arod, Posada and Tex are all going back to their career norms next year.

    I wish had that kind of faith in them right now but I don’t.

  71. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    GB7 -

    When they can’t win points using one handle, they switch to another.

    Is today a sock day by you, it sure is here in NC.

  72. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I think this means this Lee stuff is coming to an end in the next 48 hrs.

    Rangers are probably going to Arkansas to make their final push to retain him.

  73. vinny-b December 9th, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I would definitely take Gonzalez and Crawford over Beltre and VMart. There’s no denying the Red Sox have upgraded their team. But down the road that Crawford contract is really going to hurt. He’s not a $20 million player now and he certainly won’t be when he’s 35
    ——————————————–

    yet how is this different from signing Cliff Lee? A pitcher who will be 33 in year 1. And 39 in year 7. And unlike Carl Crawford he’s already been sidelined by back problems

  74. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    It is what it is. I just can’t see going off the deep end over things that fans wanted to have done.

    The Yankees are still in on Lee, the offer hasn’t been refused, Lee is doing his side of things as every other FA would do with the choices he has. There are a lot of things to mull over with these various deals, including the team that could be placed around them.

    If the Rangers are successful in landing Lee, good for them, but it will hamstring them with other players. It also means that Cashman will have to think of something else to cover the starting rotation.

    And life will go on.

    The Red Sox did what they had to do, but really they still have holes that weren’t addressed. They improved from where they were once V-Mart and Beltre were out.

    No sense worrying over what they do, as there is nothing you can do about it. Other than boo their players just like before, and cheer on the Yankees that are facing them.

    The moves the RS made is going to make it harder for them to get bargains from their players in the future. And its not like Boston is cheap on taxes, they don’t call it taxachussets for nothing.

    The Rangers are probably making their final bid for Lee. Cash will make his. The chips will fall where they will. All the other talk about him wanting to play here or there is just speculation.

  75. Erin December 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    I think this means this Lee stuff is coming to an end in the next 48 hrs.

    ******************************
    Let’s hope so. I can’t take much more. ;)

  76. Red Lobster December 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Brett – We’re pretty much on the same page

  77. Irreverent Discourse December 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Red Lobster – That’s not enough for Upton or way too much for Rasmus (neither of which are moving anywhere).

    Explain to me why the Royals want Joba.

  78. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    blake December 9th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
    Well its either increase beyond 5 or bow out. Probably making a 6 year offer and hoping that cowboy boots and 10 gallon hats are enough to make up the gap.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Add an autographed picture of Ryan’s noogie-fest on Robin Ventura and it’s a sure deal closer.

  79. blake December 9th, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    LGY,

    agreed…..this trip is probably the Rangers last stand (beg) for Lee. Probably going to try and get a definative answer so that if that answer is no then they can switch gears and move on Greinke……I actually think Lee could decide today.

  80. Erin December 9th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    BryanHoch While Rangers head to meet Cliff Lee in Arkansas, Brian Cashman says he’s flying to NY. “I don’t have a surprise detour in store.”

  81. Red Lobster December 9th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    “Rangers are probably going to Arkansas to make their final push to retain him.”

    I imagine Lee is getting a little tired of the “2 hours from Ark, no taxes, laid back, your teammates love you” pitch from Ryan and his cronies with an inferior offer to boot.

  82. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    yet how is this different from signing Cliff Lee? A pitcher who will be 33 in year 1. And 39 in year 7. And unlike Carl Crawford he’s already been sidelined by back problems

    The difference is that Cliff Lee will be worth the money he gets in the first several years of his deal. Crawford isn’t worth what he’s going to get in year 1, he certainly won’t be worth it by year 7.

  83. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    What else would the Rangers be doing flying there? They are putting an offer out there, hoping doing it in person with a sales pitch makes him sign for less. In reality they will leave empty handed. The agent will call the Yankees if the offers are close and ask Cashman what he wants to do. He will sit down with Lee and they make the decision. If the first two visits didn’t get him to sign the contract why do we believe this will? He hasn’t made a rash decision yet.

  84. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    vinny-b -

    The real difference, IMO, is Lee will still be productive at the end of his contract, Crawford will not be. By the time Crawford reaches 35, his legs will not carry him, and he’ll be an average player, not a $20M player by no means.

  85. vinny-b December 9th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    I want to keep Banuelos as a weapon against Boston’s lefties. If Cashman trades for Greinke, Banuelos is blocked.
    Aside from signing Lee and Pettitte, I want Cash to trade for Justin Upton for LF – be aggressive – pull the trigger – overpay.
    Same goes for a Marmol trade. Make him the setup guy and the next closer in 2 years if he does well – be aggressive -pull the trigger – overpay. They wanted Gardner last off season. Give them Gardner + Joba +
    Sign Russell Martin to control the running game and support Jesus Montero in tough match ups against the likes of Crawford and Ellsbury.
    Next year, let Posada walk, move ARod to DH, Jeter to 3b and sign Jose Reyes to be shortstop and leadoff hitter. Don’t let Boston get him to be their next shortstop.
    ——————————————–

    let me get this right. San Banuelos, you want Cashman to completely gut the farm system. And then sign Jose Reyes the following year? Okkkkkkkkkkkkay…

  86. Mell December 9th, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    “The real difference, IMO, is Lee will still be productive at the end of his contract, Crawford will not be.”

    How exactly is this determined?

  87. pat December 9th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    “BryanHoch While Rangers head to meet Cliff Lee in Arkansas, Brian Cashman says he?s flying to NY. ?I don?t have a surprise detour in store.?

    Since he’s flying JetBlue and not private, a detour would require a hijacking and even Cashman’s alter ego that rapels buildings isn’t that bad ass.

  88. Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    Vinny,

    Close. Aside from Montero + Sanchez + Banuelos, the rest of the farm can go.

    And yes I want Upton over Gardner, Martin over Cervelli, Marmol over Joba and Reyes as the next leadoff hitter and shortstop and AROD off 3rd base.

  89. Erin December 9th, 2010 at 12:35 pm

    OK, I’m out of here for the day. I’m going to try (key word being try) to finish my Christmas shopping. When I get home this afternoon, I fully expect to be reading about how Lee accepted the Yankees offer. ;)

  90. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 9th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    blake,

    I think we’d all be crazy if we tried to convince ourselves that Texas wouldn’t be a great place for Lee to remain. All indications say that he enjoyed his time there, they won with him (everything but the WS anyways) and they appear to be bring some serious $$$ to the table.

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he remains there as I think everyone in baseball knows that the Texas franchise is headed in a great direction with guys like Nolan Ryan at the helm.

  91. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Bret,

    I think it might be time you mix up some of that herbal tea you were talking about last night.

    Maybe kick it up a gear and substitute some valium for that herbal stuff.

  92. Mell December 9th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    “I want to keep Banuelos as a weapon against Boston’s lefties.”

    I want to keep Banuelos because he looks like he’ll be a terrific pitcher. Those Boston lefties? Half will be gone before Banuelos sees the majors. Drew and Ortiz are almost certainly in their last season in Boston and you’d have to think at least one will be replaced by a right handed bat and maybe both.

  93. CB December 9th, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Whether or not Gonzalez and Crawford are better than Beltre and Martinez is only part of the equation.

    These two moves have major impacts at multiple positions and there are many different alternatives that could have emerged.

    The big issue to watch for is how much of a drop off they have from catcher. Martinez had a great season. Their fall off at catcher could be dramatic.

  94. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    Why are we so hung up on worth? The biggest worth thing is adding talent and keeping flexability. The Yankees lost that for a number of years and Cashman has to build the system and allow contracts to expire to get them to the CC/Tex/AJ deals. The Red Sox and Yankees can afford to overpay so dollar amounts and worth for an individual player are largely irrelevant. The total of the whole teams salaries and length of contracts is where the underlying worth is. So keeping shorter term deals is huge, team option years and to an extent salaries as it effects overall payroll (for luxury tax and then ability to add new contracts). So is crawford worth 20 million a year, maybe maybe not. But they can overpay him and to me he is worth 20 instead of paying Jose Bautista 15 next year or some other flash in the pan or aged veteran. The extra money may also be worth it instead of needing to make a trade and loose prospects.

    That’s why I really think it would be intriguing to allow teams to trade draft picks as wiuth other sports or potentially sell them in order to add payroll. Think it would be interesting to see if that makes baseball more competitive or not/

  95. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
    GB7 -

    When they can’t win points using one handle, they switch to another.

    Is today a sock day by you, it sure is here in NC

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    AL, the weather’s not too bad here…about 50 degrees. Socks are helpful, though.

  96. blake December 9th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Mad Prince,

    True but we really don’t know what he prefers…..he’s never really said. There are also reports out there they say he hates the heat and worries how his body will hold up pitching in it for several years. I think there is just as much reason to believe that he would be happy in NY….especially if they offer more money.

  97. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    Mell -

    Again, JMO, but from all I’ve read, it’s believed with his pitching style Lee will manage to pitch well at his contract end, although he’s not projected to be at the same level as he is today, still a plus pitcher.

    Crawford relies on his legs as a major part of his game, on both offense and defense. As he gets older, his legs will not give him the edge he now enjoys, it’s just a matter of slowing down as one reaches mid 30′s.

  98. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    For Cliff Lee to go to Texas, no matter how many meetings they have, he will have to take less money and years than the Yankees offer.

    I wouldn’t bet on that happening.

    The Red Sox were Carl Crawford’s FIFTH choice.

    You know how they became #1? By offering over 35 million dollars more than his best current offer.

    Free agency is about $$$$$.

    Offer the best deal, and 99.9% of the time you get the best player.

  99. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    Every single contract is risky. I don’t care who it is. No one can tell the future.

    The one advantage that the Yankees have is they can absorb the hit of a big one failing, though it will hamper them, while other teams would be crushed by it.

  100. mick December 9th, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    the above said, here’s the problem. the red sox have always played on emotion. they win with it and they lose with it. a big part in beating them is not letting them think they are good. right now they think they are good.
    ===============================================
    Randy

    No matter how much rah-rah the fenway college crowd displays, the bottom line is pitching.
    You know that. They would have won last year if they had it, even w/out Youk and Pedroia.

  101. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 9th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Crawford ends up being a bust in BOS. He’s been a small market guy his entire career. He’s now playing for a team with psycho fans, making the most money of any outfielder. That’s a lot of pressure. It will be interesting to see how he does.

  102. Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    That’s right. Be aggressive and overpay. It’s the name of the game.

  103. Mike Ri December 9th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Well . .Here is Plan B

    -In his media session yesterday Joe Girardi said that they had a list of five players that they?d consider in that scenario, and according to Joel Sherman one of those players is Francisco Liriano:

  104. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    GB7 -

    We’re told we’ll see the mid 50′s by Sat., right now it’s 19, a very unusual cold snap. MTU sent it from Utah, that bum.

  105. hardwired7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    I would have been more concerned if the Sox had traded away Dice-K and signed Lee.

    That move would have been a crippler.

  106. upstate kate December 9th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    this is Lee’s big chance for a monster contract, my guess is he goes for the $$$.
    I am sure he enjoyed his time in TX, as he enjoyed his time in Philly, but it isn’t like he had a long time commitment to the team. He was there half a season as a hired gun.

  107. vinny-b December 9th, 2010 at 12:43 pm

    Big Al, Patrick:

    not convinced Lee will be valuable beyond year 4. Let alone year 7. Unfortunately, the track record of long term 100+ million contracts to starting pitchers backs up this view. That said, if Lee doesn’t get signed it may well prove the eventual loss of both Girardi and Cashman’s jobs. As both the media and fans will demand it. This i would not wish to have take place. My personal view? Would rather pass on Cliff Lee and “live to fight (play) another day (season)”. Or two

  108. pat December 9th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    KenDavidoff A precise breakdown of Derek Jeter’s contract with the #Yankees. http://bit.ly/dGDeuu

  109. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    CB,

    To me, it goes even deeper.

    The Red Sox have no margin for error, injury and depth-wise now. Especially within their pitching staff.

    As good a player as Crawford is, he doesn’t have a high OBP, doesn’t hit for power, and his speed is negated (especially defensively) playing half his games at Fenway.

    These moves smack of the 2002-2008 Yankees.

    Big splashes, not really sure how much impact they will really be from a baseball perspective yet.

  110. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    My Red Sox prediction last year was that Lackey would have a middling 4 ERA in 2010.

    This year I’m going with, Granderson will have a higher OPS than Crawford in 2011

  111. blake December 9th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    The Yankees don’t neglect the present to worry about 2017…..that’s how they compete every season and how they’ve built their empire.

  112. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 9th, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    “I am sure he enjoyed his time in TX, as he enjoyed his time in Philly, but it isn?t like he had a long time commitment to the team. He was there half a season as a hired gun.”

    A hired gun that shot blanks when they needed him most.

  113. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
    GB7 -

    We’re told we’ll see the mid 50’s by Sat., right now it’s 19, a very unusual cold snap. MTU sent it from Utah, that bum.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    He’s gotta keep the furry snake food warm somehow.

  114. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Can’t wait to read Pete Abe and his click, after Crawford has a slow start, or fails in big situations.

    The Nation will eat him alive if he’s super productive, given his contract. I wonder how his new team mates feel about giving home town discounts, and then watching what the RS did this past week.

  115. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    My analysis: This is a team-friendly structure. Jeter is very unlikely to reach that $17 million figure. He’s unlikely to get even halfway from $8 million to $17 million (that’s $12.5 million, for those of you scoring at home).

    Respected media writer says Yankees won the Jeter-contract :x

  116. mick December 9th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    These moves smack of the 2002-2008 Yankees.
    ================================
    SJ

    As well as the 80′s Yanks.
    A superstar at every position with no pitching.
    Guess they can’t call us the Evil Empire anymore.

  117. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    vinny-b,

    I’m not convinced Lee will be worth $23 million past year 4 or 5 either. But for those first 4 or 5 years he’s going to be awesome (barring injury). Crawford isn’t worth $20 million right now and he’s in his prime. That contract is going to look godawful in a few years….

  118. mick December 9th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

    December 9, 2010

    News Alert
    J.J. Hardy hit .268 with 6 HR and 38 RBI in 101 games in 2010 (Otto Greule Jr/Getty).

    ORIOLES ACQUIRE SS J.J. HARDY AND INF BRENDAN HARRIS FROM MINNESOTA TWINS

    The Orioles today announced that they have acquired SS J.J. Hardy and INF Brendan Harris from the Minnesota Twins in exchange for Minor League right-handed pitchers Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson. The Orioles will also receive cash considerations from Minnesota.

  119. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Randy,

    That emotion stuff dies down after April.

    Here is how I see it shaking out…..

    1. As I have always said, I see the Yankees signing Lee.
    2. Signing Lee brings Andy back.
    3. They will add another lefty to the bullpen.
    4. I think they will add another bat somewhere down the line.

    The first 3 moves effectively blunt the Red Sox swing to the left side of the plate.

    I’m not of the opinion guys like Jeter, Tex, Granderson, even Arod to a degree, can’t bounce back and have big years.

    I think Montero will hit next year.

    Purely from a baseball perspective, if the Yankees add Lee, Pettitte and another lefty reliever to the mix, that’s an awfully formidable team.

  120. CB December 9th, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    “The Red Sox have no margin for error, injury and depth-wise now. Especially within their pitching staff.”

    SJ-

    Pitching wise in particular they really don’t. They have very little at AAA or even AA now.

    And despite these signings their bull pen is a mess. They very well could buy Scott Downs but they are still going to have depth issues in the pen.

    And if one of their starters gets hurt they are going to be dependent on Wake again and he looked horrible last season.

    Their issue last year wasn’t scoring runs – it was pitching. The bull pen was particularly bad.

  121. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    So the Yankees are only paying Jeter $13 million next season.

    Gave themselves $8 million extra to work with from the year prior. Interesting.

  122. Dave K December 9th, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    SJ – What were his top 4 choices? I’m assuming Anaheim was his top choice. I have a feeling a lot of fans and current Angel players are suprised right now. Seems like it was just assumed he’d go to Anaheim.

  123. Tom in N.J. December 9th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    The Werth and Crawford deals remind me of the Soriano and Carlos Lee deals.

  124. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    vinny -b

    I would be more concerned about Lee if he were a power pitcher, and relied on FB’s to get outs. Lee is where a lot of good pitchers get, after they lose their FB, a finesse pitcher that does it with control, rather than trying to over power a hitter. Again, IMO, that’s why he’ll last long into his contract.

  125. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 9th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    “So the Yankees are only paying Jeter $13 million next season.”

    Really? I hope he has enough money to finish his new Best Buy sized home in Tampa. :P

  126. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Later …………

  127. Mike in Chicago December 9th, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Really glad the Yankees did not sign Crawford. I don’t think he is worth the money or years.

    And, after learning so much about Banuelos, Betances, Brackman, et al from folks like Chad and GB7, I hope the Yankees will hold on to these promising young players and see how they develop. 2011 could be a lot like 2008, but that is fine. I can wait, and would rather see them develop a new sustainable core, and that takes patience.

    Regarding Lee, there’s nothing that can be done except making a strong offer which it seems the Yankees did. From here on in, it is up to the player, and if he chooses a place closer to his Arkansas home, so be it.

  128. Bret The Hitman December 9th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    That 8 million freed up from Jeter’s contract better be put to good use. I’m assuming they shaved 2 million off Mo’s 15 million as well.

    That’s 10 million extra that better be earmarked for something.

  129. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    Bret, how does it feel to be SO SO WRROOONNGG??

    Carl Crawford. Can you say overrated?

    Sorry had to do that Bret, I still like you man

  130. mick December 9th, 2010 at 12:56 pm

    That 8 million freed up from Jeter’s contract better be put to good use. I’m assuming they shaved 2 million off Mo’s 15 million as well.

    That’s 10 million extra that better be earmarked for something.
    =========================================
    Lee is putting it into his pocket as we speak

  131. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    That’s 10 million extra that better be earmarked for something.

    The Red Sox used earmarked money on a porkbelly project. The name of that project is Carl Crawford.

    This would make more sense if the Red Sox just gave $142 million to Prince Fielder

  132. Pat M. December 9th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    SJ……I guess the Halos had good reason for concern yesterday afternoon……..

  133. disco stu December 9th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    SJ – You make good points, but it is all contingent on the Yankees first signing Lee. At 9am this morning when the rumors were flying that the Yankees were offering a 7th year, I was anticipating an announcement any moment.

    Now we hear Cashman is flying back to New York before the meetings end and the Rangers are on their way to Arkansas to meet with Lee … that doesnt exactly strike me as a positive sign.

  134. REZ12 December 9th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    “I would be more concerned about Lee if he were a power pitcher, and relied on FB’s to get outs. Lee is where a lot of good pitchers get, after they lose their FB, a finesse pitcher that does it with control, rather than trying to over power a hitter. Again, IMO, that’s why he’ll last long into his contract.”

    He also has far less margin for error than a guy like CC does when he loses his velocity.

  135. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Crawford’s top 4 choices, in order, were: Anaheim, Tampa, Texas, New York, and Boston.

    He knew Tampa couldn’t afford him, even though he loved playing there.

    Money grabs free agents. With rare exceptions.

  136. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    “I’m assuming they shaved 2 million off Mo’s 15 million as well.”

    ——————

    They deferred $300,000.

    Close to $2 million ;)

  137. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    Lee is looking for every last dime from us….whether he gets a better offer or not, they will portray it as being better…..it will be our call in the end.

  138. REZ12 December 9th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    “That’s 10 million extra that better be earmarked for something.”

    Perhaps it was earmarked for Crawford. Remember, there were reports yesterday that the Yankees did believe it was possible to sign both.

    Now, perhaps they allot the money to a couple of BP arms (Wood + one of the lefties) and trying to get a couple of quality bench players.

  139. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 9th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    What was the LAA offer to Crawford?

  140. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:00 pm

    If NYYs do sign Lee and Pettitte, I’m betting that they give up their #2 pick for Downs if he’s under $6 mil for 3 years. Adding Kerry Wood probably not happening, but it would be nice. The best bat might be Thome, but, not counting on that one, either.

  141. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    So what is the deal with Rangers trying to move Michael Young>? Is it to free up extra cash to sweeten the Lee deal or make a play for Beltre at third or something else?

    Lost in all of this too is that the Rangers will have to look at paying Josh Hamilton soon enough. He is arbitration eligible and is a free agent in 2013 at age 31. He definitely will be looking to cash in on his one big free agent contract just like Lee is now.

  142. Laura - I Bleed Blue December 9th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    “The best bat might be Thome, but, not counting on that one, either.”

    I’d sign Matsui before I go for Thome. :)

  143. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    Meetings mean nothing. Its about dollars.

    Do you see Texas going 7 years and north of 160 million? I don’t.

    Pat M,

    Once again, you were on the money!

  144. Robin December 9th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    So how come the media isn’t hammering Boston for trying to BUY the championship?

    It was only 2 short years ago when the Yanks nabbed Tex, and when they did, all hell broke loose, as every sportswriter and a lot of GMs shouted for a salary cap to stop the yankees from “ruining baseball”.

  145. ac1 December 9th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    LA offered Crawford 7/108

  146. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    If the Rangers match our offer would we go to an 8th year?
    How desperate is Cashman is the better question.

  147. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    “The Yankees have offered Cliff Lee an assortment of contract choices ranging from five years to seven years, The Post has learned.

    The idea is to give Lee a range of options that, the Yankees hope, separate them from whatever field remains for the ace lefty’s services. Yankees officials presented Lee’s agent Darek Braunecker with the parameters of these proposals at the outset of free agency, but Braunecker asked that nothing formal be presented until the past two days at the Winter Meetings.

    The Yankee offers work on a scale in which the shorter the term offered the higher the annual average value. It is believed the bids work something like this: five years for $125 million, six years for $144 million and seven years for $161 million or $25 million a year, $24 million a year and $23 million a year.”

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....nDL0bx2PRJ

  148. Robin December 9th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    # ac1 December 9th, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    LA offered Crawford 7/108
    ————————

    That’s ridiculous offer in light of the Werth deal.

  149. Patrick December 9th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    If the Rangers match our offer would we go to an 8th year?
    How desperate is Cashman is the better question.

    And if pigs could fly….

    The Rangers aren’t matching our offer

  150. UnKnown December 9th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    Who has the best shot at Soriano now saying that Beltre probably goes the the Halos?

  151. ac1 December 9th, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    yeah the angels suck at free agency.

  152. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Given the assumption that Lee wants NY , then isn’t he just posturing into getting our best possible offer.
    On top of making us wait which could drive it up even more.
    Giving all interestested teams the chance as well to drive it up further.

  153. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    disco stu, you could take it entirely the other way as well. This is the Rangers third visit to Lee, and they don’t have a contract signed.

    This is the same type of things that were being said about CC before he signed. Its the usual process with FA signings that are big as this is.

    Lee is working it to get his biggest deal possible. Cashman added a year, at least that is what is reported.

    The Yankees laid their groundwork. What is Cash supposed to do at this point? Beg like the Rangers are doing?

    If Lee ends up with the Rangers, he does. Not a thing can be done about it. I just don’t see it happening. Lee has moved around a lot lately, he wants a place to call home. The Yanks offer gives that. He also has a stronger relationship with CC and his wife than he would have been able to build with any of the Rangers. And it still means very little compared to him getting a big pay day.

    FA’s with a big deal in front of them from the Yankees usually means that they sit a bit to see if it could be pushed a little higher. Why not? The offer is there, it isn’t being pulled, and it could get sweetened up by waiting a little longer. Who knows, maybe Ryan and Co will go insane and give an even bigger deal.

    You can’t read anything into this. Lee will take the best deal he is given for he and his family.

  154. Yank1 December 9th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    BloggingBombers
    Jon Daniels: “Some guys are driven by the marketplace, some guys are more driven by destination. Some guys are a combination of both.”

  155. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Soriano and Beltre are best bets to go to the Angels.

  156. CB December 9th, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    If the Yankees have offered Lee a range of choices from 5/125 to 7/161 it’s going to be extremely difficult for any team to top that.

    The only way to do that would be to go 7/175 and that seams very unlikely.

  157. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    # GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Soriano and Beltre are best bets to go to the Angels.
    ____________

    Up till late night so was Crawford. lol.

    I do think both will end up there, but who knows, maybe the RS will get them too. lol.

  158. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Boras will win again. Beltre looked dead, now back in the fold. The Angels are sitting on cash and no real thirdbaseman. That should get done. And let’s see if he can throw one of his other washed up veterans into a deal as well. He is the master of this. Angels will have Beltre and Magglio Ordonez in the fold soon enough !!!!!!!!!

  159. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    Jon Daniels: “Some guys are driven by the marketplace, some guys are more driven by destination. Some guys are a combination of both.”

    Translation: “Please love texas Please love texas Please love texas Please love texas Please love texas Please love texas Please love texas Please love texas Please love texas”

  160. REZ12 December 9th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    ed_price
    Gary Sheffield also predicted 70 doubles for Adrian Gonzalez playing at Fenway Park

  161. rodg12 December 9th, 2010 at 1:14 pm

    SJ -
    How’s Tony doing? He playing ball anywhere this winter?

  162. REZ12 December 9th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    ed_price
    Gary Sheffield on Carl Crawford: “Now he’s going to put up Rickey Henderson-type numbers.”

  163. randy l. December 9th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    “Purely from a baseball perspective, if the Yankees add Lee, Pettitte and another lefty reliever to the mix, that’s an awfully formidable team.”

    last year was a three team battle for two playoff spots in the american league east.

    is it just the yankees and the red sox now?

    if so, the randomness of the playoffs comes into play and the best way i know to increase the odds is with #1 guys like sabathia and lee.

    so yeah , i’d say if they sign lee and pettitte , the yankees will be a very formidable team.

  164. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    CB, theoretically if the Rangers just matched the 7/161 deal it would put them ahead due to state taxes.

  165. pat December 9th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Alex’s salary is 13 % of the Yankees payroll.

    If the Rangers raised payroll to $90 M this year from $64 M last year and allocated 13% for Lee that would pay him $12M per year.

    The scale of what they should pay 1 player is way too out of whack for Texas.

  166. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    CB, theoretically if the Rangers just matched the 7/161 deal it would put them ahead due to state taxes.

    Now factor in new york endorsement money

  167. clownthrowindown December 9th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Laura – I Bleed Blue
    “A hired gun that shot blanks when they needed him most.”

    Geez..sour grapes already? Lee carried them against TB, then won his game against NY. Took them further than they had ever gone.

    I bet you aren’t so snarky about him if he becomes a Yankee.

  168. Jerkface December 9th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

    Expected playoff share percent for making it to 1+ levels of the playoffs every year

  169. Mike Ri December 9th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    I think the Roids have gone to Sheffs head ! .

  170. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Gary Sheffield……….Auditioning for a job on Baseball Tonight.

    First rule…………slurp everything Boston Red Sox.

  171. disco stu December 9th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    I hope you are all right about this … but just because the Yankees will not be overbid for Lee doesnt mean they wont get him … you cant just casually dismiss the notion that Cliff Lee might not pitch for the Yankees because when push comes to shove, he and his family would rather be somewhere else for less money. It’s not without precedent.

    Way back when, Greg Maddux was offered more money to pitch for the Yankees but decided to go to the Braves instead.

  172. 4time December 9th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    lol @ Francessa… he somehow turned the Crawford signing into a 10 minute lecture about how irreverent the Mets are.

  173. rconn23 December 9th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Carl Crawford is nowhere near the player Rickey Henderson was. Carl Crawford has a .337 career OBP.

    Henderson was the greatest leadoff hitter of all time. As Bill James said, you could split Rickey Henderson into and you’d have two Hall of Famers.

    Carl Crawford is not a transformative player.

  174. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    The Orioles and Toronto could be a handful this year. Baltimore’s really in need of the pitching, though.

  175. blake December 9th, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    If those are the choices then Lee would be crazy not to choose the 7/161 option…..that is of course unless he thinks that he can command more than 23 million bucks in his late 30′s.

  176. CB December 9th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    “theoretically if the Rangers just matched the 7/161 deal it would put them ahead due to state taxes.”

    I would be extremely surprised to see the Rangers go to that level.

    And if they do match, Lee needs to understand that the Rangers will have a hard time constructing a winning team around him.

  177. Tom in N.J. December 9th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Crawford’s Rickey Henderson now?

  178. Robin December 9th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    # SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Gary Sheffield……….Auditioning for a job on Baseball Tonight.

    First rule…………slurp everything Boston Red Sox.
    ———————————————
    This morning Karl Ravech was positively giddy over the signing, and insisting the Sox weren’t trying to buy a title. They might as well hire Baghdad Bob.

  179. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    clownthrowindown December 9th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
    Laura – I Bleed Blue
    “A hired gun that shot blanks when they needed him most.”

    Geez..sour grapes already? Lee carried them against TB, then won his game against NY. Took them further than they had ever gone.

    I bet you aren’t so snarky about him if he becomes a Yankee.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Trolling and crowing about the Red Sox 2011 WS title before Christmas? Geez…

  180. I Like Inge December 9th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    No one plays like Rickey Henderson in today’s game.

  181. pat December 9th, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    aarongleeman Cliff Lee?s agent responds to Nolan Ryan: ?That?s not the way the process works? – http://bit.ly/euYy87

  182. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    The most doubles EVER in a single season is 67.

    Has Sheff lost his mind?

  183. UnKnown December 9th, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    All discussion becomes pointless about Crawford when it turns to him being Rickey. That is so proposterious…

  184. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 1:24 pm

    Sheffield saying that NOW Crawford would be like Ricky Henderson makes me wonder, if that is possible, why wasn’t he that way for the Rays? Slacker!

    Crawford is a very good player. I’d be happy with him on the Yankees, but I just didn’t see where he was that far above the level of Gardner.

  185. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    GB7 -

    I like the idea of Thome myself. If has one more year in him, like last season, hitting in YS, he could be huge.

  186. 4time December 9th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    Radio is unbearable today. Even the normally pro-Yankee guys are in agita over this talking about how, even with Lee, the Sox are better. One guy even cited CC’s knee surgery as a reason why the rotation is a question mark! LOL

    But as usual… it is assumed Beckett/Lackey bounce back. Talked about how Burnett had a bad year and is a mess… nothing for Beckett. Assuming the best for the Sox, worst for the Yankees, expect that to be the theme all winter.

    And if we had spent like this, it would have been about how we are ruining baseball.

  187. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    “Nothing about that is true,” Gonzalez told Fernando Ballesteros. “It’s false. I haven’t signed any contract.” Indeed, by Gonzalez’s account, the two sides have yet to even delve into specific figures, despite word that he asked for, and received, approximately $161MM over eight years. “We discussed the trade, but we didn’t reach any agreement, and we didn’t negotiate numbers,” Gonzalez explained. “The only thing I have for sure is the contract that I had already signed with the Padres, and what I can tell you is that over the course of the season we’re going to negotiate to reach an agreement.”

    Would be hysterical if the Sox never reach an agreement and he leaves. Basically he has them over a barrell now anyway. Anything short of Crawford’s deal won’t work.

  188. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:25 pm

    The only way that Texas could possibly fit Lee in would be to move Michael Young, and that leaves them with no 3rd basemen in the system. Cantu and his .923 FA Pct aat third? Lee and the pitching staff would revolt.

  189. clownthrowindown December 9th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    GB,

    Confused again? How does my post about Lee have anything at all to do with Boston?

    And, how is a guy who was traded THREE times in two seasons a “hired gun”? Next you will call him a “mercenary” if he signs with any team other than the Yankees.

  190. blake December 9th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Gb,

    I think the Rangers plan B is to trade for Greinke and then bid on Beltre…..I don’t think they’ll trade Young without being close to an agreement with a replacement for him.

    Those comments from Lee’s agent would indicate that he isn’t considering a cowboy boot discount.

  191. Pat M. December 9th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Be confident that Cliff Lee will be signing with The NY Yankees……..He’s being very professional with regards to Texas, however when it’s all said and done he’ll be pitching every fifth day behind his pal CC Sabatia…….Besides his strtagery has netted him at least an additional 10 million dollars………Angels are still in the mix, but the price for Lee along with the price tags for Beltre & Soriano will require using Arte’s overdraft protection on his checking account

  192. LGY December 9th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Braunecker just laid the smackdown on Ryan.

    Maybe Ryan was left home for good reason.

  193. Carl December 9th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    lol @ Mike just ripping the Mets.

  194. Squeakz December 9th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    what’s the free agent class of 2011?????

  195. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    clownthrowindown December 9th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
    GB,

    Confused again? How does my post about Lee have anything at all to do with Boston?

    And, how is a guy who was traded THREE times in two seasons a “hired gun”? Next you will call him a “mercenary” if he signs with any team other than the Yankees.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    You great fool. I never called Lee a hired gun. Are you saying that you’re not a Boston troll….or a troll of any sort?

  196. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    # CB December 9th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    “theoretically if the Rangers just matched the 7/161 deal it would put them ahead due to state taxes.”

    I would be extremely surprised to see the Rangers go to that level.

    And if they do match, Lee needs to understand that the Rangers will have a hard time constructing a winning team around him.
    ____________

    CB, like I said it was theoretical. I think the Rangers would be making a mistake hiring Lee given their current payroll and the percentage it would take up.

    If I’m Lee, which obviously I’m not, (dang it), I’d not only look at the deal that brings me the most $$$$$$$$$$$$$ I’d also want the team to have the juice to be good around me. These guys want championships. They want to get paid, but they want to win as well. I can’t imagine that Felix Hernandez feels all that great about being on the Mariners, even with him winning the Cy Young. Yeah, the big payday is great, but you also want to be part of a winner.

    The taxes issue is about 3 million per year. I don’t see Texas going past 20 million per year without it hurting every other area of their payroll. And the longer the term the harder it is for them. It would put them in the same position that Boston will now be in. Players won’t give as friendly a contract terms when others are getting a lot more gravy.

  197. CB December 9th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    “Gary Sheffield on Carl Crawford: “Now he’s going to put up Rickey Henderson-type numbers.””

    This is part of why those huge numbers do matter – you sign a 7yr/142M deal and the expectations get projected onto the contract rather than the player.

    I think it’s great that he’s being compared to Henderson right now on national TV. Because in July those comparisons are going to look silly.

    Herderson you pay 140M without thinking about it. Same for Tim Raines.

    Carl Crawford isn’t even remotely close to those players. He doesn’t even come close to their impact.

    But those are the expectations that will build.

  198. Betsy December 9th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

    I have to agree with Kim Jones and Mark Malusis………Lee is begging the Rangers to give him somewhere close (even if it’s just 6 and not 7 years) to what the Yankees offered. He clearly wants to stay in TX; if not, then what’s the hold up? Yesterday I think SJ said that if Lee had actually had a 7 year offer on the table, he’d would have been in the process of being fitted in his new uniform instead of still being up in the air. Well, the Yankees gave him the 7th year…….and now he’s meeting with the Rangers again?

  199. 4time December 9th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Offensive comparisons are pretty useless at this stage. Even though I think the Sox offense will be slightly better, so much depends on how our “glue” guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Tex, Granderson, etc. bounce back along with how Montero does and if Posada can perform as a DH.

    Our offense has plenty of question marks. The raw combined production is fine, but individually, all but 3 guys had down years. G. Love alluded to this yesterday and its so true.

    It is imperative for our big money players to show up from day 1 and to stay healthy. The pitching, with Lee, will be fun to watch. Also would like to see a couple arms added to the pen. The offense needs guys to revert back to their career norms.

  200. clownthrowindown December 9th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    And if we had spent like this, it would have been about how we are ruining baseball.

    Hmmm…Jeter…Rivera…Lee possibly…Pettitte or a comparable pitcher.

    Yeh, NY has really curbed its spending.

  201. RMS December 9th, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    “I wouldn’t be surprised if Crawford ends up being a bust in BOS. He’s been a small market guy his entire career. He’s now playing for a team with psycho fans, making the most money of any outfielder. That’s a lot of pressure. It will be interesting to see how he does.”

    Would you have said that if the Yankees signed him? Didn’t think so.

  202. tk December 9th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    “Those comments from Lee’s agent would indicate that he isn’t considering a cowboy boot discount.”

    Yeah, you knew that strategy would never fly. I’m not even sure if the Rangers were looking for a discounted price, so much as a way to tactfully exit the negotiations without creating the appearance of not having tried hard enough to retain their ace. If his agent gave them that number they could talk about not being able to reset the market, give the largest pitching contract ever, etc.

  203. yanks 27 December 9th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    How did Mike turn Crawford/Lee into a second day of killing the Mets?

    Fun to hear though lol

  204. Yogi Mantle December 9th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    And if we had spent like this, it would have been about how we are ruining baseball.
    __________

    It would be the usual, “and the rich get richer” bit. How is it that Boston signs like this and that NEVER gets said about them? Because they have a slightly lower payroll than the Yanks? They are still one of the highest payrolls by a wide margin.

  205. Betsy December 9th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Sherman’s right – the Yankees caved. Now where won’t they stop? 8 years? 200 million?

  206. Betsy December 9th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Sox can afford to lose draft picks if they sign Downs……..that would stink if he goes there.

  207. Erica in NY December 9th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    The smaller outfield of Fenway also makes triples a lot less likely for Crawford

  208. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    No chance Crawford will be a bust. He is a driven player, has character, he’s a great sign and he isn’t expected to show up and carry that team. he just fits into the lineup. I wish we had him, but such is life. Could he carry a team or make a team no. But that’s why this is not an individual sport. Even Arod as complete as he was at the time couldn’t carry the Rangers.

  209. blake December 9th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

    Betsy,

    Because the “holdup” is making him more money. Had he just taken the Yankees first offer then he would have missed out on 20+ million dollars. He and is agent or going to make sure the process has totally ran its course and plateaued before he makes his decision.

  210. Carl December 9th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Shut up Betsy please.

    I said please.

  211. GreenBeret7 December 9th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Gonzalez: No Agreement In Place With Red Sox
    By Nick Collias [December 9 at 12:18pm CST]
    Adrian Gonzalez hasn’t agreed to anything more than a trade. In a phone interview with the Mexican blog Puro Beisbol (link in Spanish), the normally tight-lipped first baseman denied reports from Sports Illustrated, USA Today and other sources that he and the Red Sox have tentatively agreed to an extension that won’t be announced until April in order for the team to avoid luxury tax.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ed-to.html

  212. Joe from Long Island December 9th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Hi again –

    Interesting to read that tidbit about the Yanks offering Lee a menu of contract choices, so he can pick highest AAV vs. duration of contract. I bet that’s giving other teams fits. To me, Texas making yet another trip to his home could be an indication that they know they can’t compete on the basis of contract terms, so they’re trying to do it with emotion and persuasion. Like many have said, regardless of Lee’s decision, no one will top the Yanks’ offer.

    I am really surprised by the Angels. They missed out on CC and Tex two years ago, now they again miss the boat with Crawford. What part of the FA process don’t they get?

  213. Erica in NY December 9th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Betsy December 9th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
    Sherman’s right – the Yankees caved. Now where won’t they stop? 8 years? 200 million?

    *************

    Thats ridiculous.

    Anyone with two open eyes and ears knows that the Yankees have targeted Lee as a high priority. It’s not “caving”. Its “getting your guy”

  214. Dassit December 9th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    cave cave cave cave cave cave cave cave

    kill the word

  215. start_wearing_pink December 9th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Just heard Ryan Rusillo on Scott Van Pelt Show and speaking of the Red Sox, he said “we just stuck it to the Yankees and did what they always do. After a decade, there’s finally a team close to the Yankees in payroll, and it’s us and it serves them right.” So Im guessing Rusillo is a boston fan, then looked and saw that he worked for comcast sportsnet new england :)

  216. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Betsy,

    When Lee signs with the Yankees, will you stop whining?

  217. Squeakz December 9th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    So apparently the Yankees contacted the Twins about Liriano??????? This is so stupid, I hope it doesn’t happen

  218. pat December 9th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    “The taxes issue is about 3 million per year.”

    Not even 1/3 of that without getting a good acountant involved.

  219. Erica in NY December 9th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    new thread :arrow:

  220. Robin December 9th, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    hey, even if Lee signs with Texas, at least the yankee drove up the price.

  221. Mell December 9th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    “Herderson you pay 140M without thinking about it. Same for Tim Raines.

    Carl Crawford isn’t even remotely close to those players. He doesn’t even come close to their impact.”

    Careful. I was scolded the other night for suggesting that Crawford wasn’t as strong and offensive player as Raines.

  222. blake December 9th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Tk,

    Clearly the Rangers would like that magic number so they could either do it or move on to other options…..the last thing they want is to climb the bidding ladder with the Yankees while their backup options come off the board…..I think this.will be over soon. Maybe today.

  223. SJ44 December 9th, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    You don’t even understand what the word “cave” means.

    The Yankees gave him a menu of choices to choose from.

    Geez, do you even think before going into doom mode with these posts?

  224. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    The smaller outfield of Fenway also makes triples a lot less likely for Crawford
    ===================================
    Not in right center out by the triangle….

  225. blake December 9th, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    Giving Jeter 100 million bucks would have been caving…..doing what is necessary in a tightly contested battle for a player you need is not. As I said earlier….the Yankees don’t neglect the present to worry about 2017.

  226. 108 stitches December 9th, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    The rules of Boston :

    - Overhype

    - Be giddy and silly

    - Delusional thinking trumps knowing you’ll always be little brother baseball.

    - Hate anything New York never knowing why.

    - Say “Yankees suck” at other sporting events.

  227. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

    GB7 -

    He’s just reinforcing his point about being a clown.

    Trolls can put on both happy and sad clown faces, his is always so sad, like his posts.

  228. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    why is francesa talking mets today?
    must have been his script before the deal went down.
    way to be relevant mike.
    kay will be all over this.

  229. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    “the mets have lost their charm.” mike

  230. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    mick -

    Francesa loves the Mets, and if he didn’t talk about them, who would.

    My question is, what’s there to talk about when it comes to the Mets.

    I wonder if we took up a collection, if we could get them to move to the left coast.

  231. G-C December 9th, 2010 at 1:53 pm

    In the end, if the Yankees acquire Lee (and I strongly believe they will), it will at a cost that Hal Steinbrenner deems reasonable. If 7 years and 170 million doesn’t matter to Hal Steinbrenner, why should it matter to us? This is a business conscious organization now, not one that makes impulsive decisions without considering future implications. Any deal for Lee will take into account how that long term deal will play into the Yankees future financial flexibility. And the truth is, the only ones who know how flexible the Yankees payroll will be over the next decade are the people intimately involved in these talks. I don’t think any of us are.

    The Yankees don’t “need” Cliff Lee and they ESPECIALLY don’t “need” him to make some kind of a back-page splash that counters what Boston is doing. Boston has gotten better this offseason, but they also lost two of their three best players from last season. If they had added Crawford and Gonzalez to the fold AND managed to retain those guys, I’d be a bit concerned. But really, they aren’t much better than they were this time last year right now.

  232. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    AL
    believe it or not fran is a yankee fan…goes back to the 60′s….he will strike soon, he has to prepare his monologue when he gets the time, nothing off the cuff for him…i’m sure he was asleep when the deal went down

  233. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 1:56 pm

    mick -

    He seems to be very critical of the Yankees, and quite a few times, without a proper reason.

    Always thought of him more leaning to Queens, my bad.

  234. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    This process is no different than it was with CC. He was in love with California, playing the Yankees, the delay means he is waiting for a better offer out west, will take less money, he would have signed.

    If anything the one thing we supposedly know is money will win out here where CC the thought was he might take less.

    Yankees had no real leverage there either

  235. Phranchise December 9th, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    How funny is this with the Angels????

    When a reporter asked if the Angels might have a “huge splash” in store soon, Reagins pointed to the team’s recent acquisition of Hisanori Takahashi — who posted a 10-6 record with a 3.61 ERA for the Mets last season.

    “I think I already made a huge splash with Takahashi,” Reagins said. “Some people don’t think that. But he adds a lot of value to our club.”

  236. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    A 10-6 record with the Mets could translate into a 16-6 record with a real baseball team.

  237. mick December 9th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    AL

    Who here isn’t critical of the Yankees?
    He tries to be objective.

  238. BIG AL December 9th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    mick -

    Good point, one I should have tried to remember before speaking.

    Who do you think is the position player Cashman is trying to get?

    I think the White Sox did well in keeping Konerko, who I wanted badly for the Yanks, and adding Dunn. That’s a lot of pop. If they get better pitching, they could take the Central.

  239. mick December 9th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    AL

    Right now I’d say the position is pitching and then more pitching.

  240. michaels07 December 9th, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    The Giants became WS Champs thru pitching, Yankees have to go the same way. The Era of Roids and PEDS is over, back to basics, Pitching and defense,putting the ball in play is the way to win.

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