Waiting game continues for the Yankees
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2010 
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When Brian Cashman bolted from the Swan and Dolphin yesterday morning, I followed. Cliff Lee’s agent was already gone, now the Yankees general manager was also hitting the road. I decided to get to the airport five hours early and try to fly standby. It worked, and I shared a flight with … you guessed it … Brian Cashman. And as a perfect metaphor for the past four days, our flight was delayed two hours.
Cashman was once again forced to wait.
It’s hard to argue against the Red Sox being the big winners of the Winter Meetings. They got the best offensive players available on the trade and free agent markets, replacing and possibly upgrading on the losses of Victor Martinez and Adrian Beltre. They needed offense, and they got it.
The Yankees, though, don’t need offense. They need pitching, and pitching is taking a while.
Before he left, Cashman once again reiterated that he was never a serious player in the Carl Crawford sweepstakes. But wasn’t Crawford a backup plan?
“That’s not true,” Cashman said. “We never made an offer. I’ve reached out to everybody and anybody, but that’s not a need for us. We have Gardner, Granderson and Swisher, and I have a certain amount of money I can spend. I’m going to be aggressive on the areas of need, not areas that aren’t of need.”
Yankees fans can be and probably should be worried about the Red Sox upgrades — no team made itself better this week the way Boston made itself better — but the Yankees have more important things to spend their money on than Crawford, and they have no need to trade for Adrian Gonzalez. Offense came off the board quickly, and the Red Sox took advantage. That’s why they won the Winter Meetings.
“We’ll do what makes sense for us in our world,” Cashman said.
The Yankees have to wait for what they need. And that’s why they came home with nothing officially accomplished.
Associated Press photo of Cashman. I don’t think I’ll ever get tired to posting pictures of him in that elf suit. Too funny.
Sometimes I think this blog has fan-fiction writers hired for the comments section.
I love his elf costume
Chad
are you stalking Cash?
some times this is to easy,
christina, by your logic you use as evidence tex?s word as fact, ok, but then you ignore that same logic when coming to crawford. Cashman said they had no interest in him, that is his word.
You are very selective when you use people?s word to sustain your argument.
E&E
I will see what I can find out about the Bert mittens
“Any idea how they found out ?”
mtu-
well, there were those pre printed stat sheets from baseball reference that i had ready to hand out highlighted with crawford’s .781 lifetime OPS and his fenway lifetime .708 OPS
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 9:05 am
E&E
I will see what I can find out about the Bert mittens
*************************
thanks kate. I’m all excited now about Bert mittens.
“# randy l. December 10th, 2010 at 8:52 am
the weird thing is that almost all the red sox fans who have stopped me on my cape cod street giddy and quivering like jelly with excitement from the crawford signing have no idea what a low career OPS crawford has and what a lousy fenway player he has been.
… but they do now
”
—————-
Randy l,
I try to explain that to them as well… but they are so high on the ESPN kool-aid right now, it’s pointless.
I can’t find one Sox fan who thinks Matt Holliday is 1/2 the player Crawford is. Seriously…
I’ve been told he’ll score between 140-150 runs.
I think Cliff Lee is taking his talents to south beach to play with Dwayne Wade and the Heat.
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 9:05 am
E&E
I will see what I can find out about the Bert mittens
************
Appreciated.
Just curious, but were they adult size or child? Cause I think I could find them in child. But adult Bert mittens are MUCH tricker
Cliff Lee has played for 4 teams in 3 years and 9 years in the majors and has earned a grand total of $23 M.
He has the opportunity to match that now in a contract in 1 year and not have to live like a nomad anymore.
Frustrating for those waiting for his answer but a big decision for a family trying to lay down roots for the next 5-7 years I suppose.
Let’s see; Matt Holliday @ $80M vs. Crawford @ $120M. Boston made the right choice – For the Yankees, lol.
Randy-
Don’t bother. They would just say you made it up.
It’s impossible to see the light with their heads that far up their pututte’s.
Humor them, and continue to work on your golf game.
Later …………
Erica
adult
Doreen
Try a party store (Do you have Party City near you?) or how about online (currentcatalog.com)
here’s a site for your Snoopy Christmas paper
http://collectpeanuts.com/wp/h…..er/#high_1
I honestly believe cashman did not want crawford and will get Upton instead. Upton is younger cheaper and may have more upside. If Lee falls through do you think Yankees make a play for Josh Johnson? Which starting pitcher does anybody think?
here’s a novel thought…
ignore christina and the rest of the trolls
One thing we know for certain: Despite the misgivings of some on this blog – the Yankees themselves do not view Russell Martin’s hip problem as a BFD.
As Chad pointed out – there are reports that the Yankees have offered Martin a multiyear deal with a chance at being the starting catcher.
You don’t do that if you’re not convinced that the guy can be healthy.
Martin to me represents a key turning point for the Yankees if they get him; he enables the club to work Montero in a little more slowly and ensures that Jorge Posada’s glove will be for decoration only. He also frees up the Yankees to use Montero in a trade for Greinke or another front line starter – Josh Johnson – if the Yankees feel that’s the way they need to go.
He’s only 27 and with the Yankees he would be asked to be a bottom of the order hitter – which could change if his offense returns to its pre-injury form.
Good morning my fellow Yankee fans. Hope everyone is having a good day so far. So, what do we think the odds are that Lee makes a decision today?
christina12 December 10th, 2010 at 9:06 am
BL,
Lets just say that I had a hunch Tex wasnt interested in coming to Boston. I never for a minute I believe that he wanted to be a Red Sox. Its just one of those things that you cant explain.
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Most people call that “hunch” gas.
Chad:
does Cashman fly first-class or coach ?
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 9:11 am
Erica
adult
************
Well now I need to know
JCNY21 -
I know I threw Johnson’s name out in my own post so this is going to sound hypocritical – but I don’t see the Marlins dealing him just yet.
They’re trying to contend for the Wild Card this year and build up some good vibes heading into their new stadium – you can’t do that by selling off your best pitcher.
I don’t think Upton is in the cards – the Yankee focus needs to be pitching.
Why would Florida give up Johnson? 4 years under 10 M a year is a very managable contract for them.
Cool site GB!! Thanks. I didn’t spot my wrapping paper. Mine has Snoopy dressed in his Santa outfit, guiding his doghouse “sleigh” which is led by 8 Woodstocks.
Green,
Im never wrong on my instincts.
Erica-we have to get those gloves!!
why would the marlins, with a new ball park next year, trade josh johnson?
pat -
Thanks.
I do have a Party City and will try there. At this point, I’m afraid ordering online might mean I’m wrapping gifts Christmas Eve.
I agree with the rest, the short holiday weeks loom ahead, Lee makes a decision in the next 48 hours putting the physical and press conference next week and then home for the holidays.
jcny1-
Cashman is going for pitching and more pitching. I think its pretty apparent that Upton can wait. He’s happy with the outfield. Unless they get no pitching and decide offense is the only way to offset that no big changes will be made except for catcher. Upton is a fantasy pick at this point.
Even CC is trying !
I talk to him a lot – he’s a friend,” he said. “So I won’t call him just about that (free agency). I’ve talked to Cliff recently, but nothing about contracts. I just wanted to make sure he’s all right and hope he makes the right decision. But I’ll call him and see what’s happening and what he’s going to do. I don’t know at this point.”
Sabathia feels the Yankees are in the driver’s seat after they upped their original offer of six years and $140 million.
dailynews.com
The one thing about the Crawford deal that can’t be overstated (in my opinion) is that they had a better player ready to sign with them last year and they took a hard line with him. I’m talking about Matt Holliday of course. They gave him another “take it or leave it” deal and Holliday, like Teixeira, left it! They finally decided that strategy doesn’t work and hugely overpaid a lesser player. You gotta love it
Al, I’m lurking over here. No snow in Corning, but I will be headed back to the five feet of the white stuff in a few hours. Such impatience around here for Cliff to sign. If I remember correctly, didn’t CC sign on the 18th of Dec back in 08. Anyway, it is what it is. If they have to trade prospects for a starter, so be it. All of them aren’t going to make it to the big club anyway, so at some point they will be traded off. I mean let’s face it….. if Lee signs and Andy comes back, none of the young guns make it to the show unless someone gets hurt and after this year, if you have Lee, CC, Phil and AJ until 2013 only one can make it to the show. They will be moved at some point, it’s just when and for whom.
Erin, One just for you.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/1.....8;var=sbar
SJ or any of the other resident experts,
Do you think the landscape of young players accepting contracts for under market value, and bying out some arbitration/FA years will start shifting now that they have seen how flush these teams are with cash? Crawford- $142M, Werth $126M.
Players like Longoria, Upton, etc. must be kicking themselves.
“I can’t find one Sox fan who thinks Matt Holliday is 1/2 the player Crawford is. Seriously…
I’ve been told he’ll score between 140-150 runs.”
bd-
the one die hard red sox fan i got through to was an engineer who was supervising the re tarring of our main street .
he was good with numbers and saw that gardner at $400,000 a year was a much better deal than crawford at $20,000,000.
he got it that paying crawford 50 times as much as gardner probably wasn’t a good idea for the red sox.
that didn’t stop him from making a joke about adding feathers to the tar mix for yankee fans on cape cod.
L.A.’s offer to Crawford was 6 yrs/$108M ($18M per).
They were wise to cap it there. $142M for Carl Crawford is nuts.
I don’t care how much he ‘grinds’, he’s not worth anywhere near that amount.
Who is Matt Holliday’s agent? The Red Sox can never be sure with Boras. He deceived them the previous year and that is the reason why they took a hard line with Matt Holliday. I would have done the same thing. So what if they overpaid for Crawford? Do you think Tex is worth the money he is getting?
Swish is such a nice guy.
SI_JonHeyman very nice of @nickswisher to invite many from yankees staff to his wedding. saw some of them on way over there from orlando
ac1,
all the “we can trade Montero for Josh Johnson” trades are laughable.
I know the Yankees have plenty of trade pieces, but it’s borderline arrogant, borderline ignorance (at least in my opinion) when Yankee fans pick the best players on any team they so choose and assume they are so easily attainable.
There is really no incentive for Florida to trade Johnson unless the Yankees offered a ridiculous package – one that would make Cashman puke to think about.
GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Erin, One just for you.
http://compare.ebay.com/like/1…..p;var=sbar
*************************
OMG!! That is awesome. Thank you GB.
randy l. December 10th, 2010 at 9:27 am
‘that didn’t stop him from making a joke about adding feathers to the tar mix for yankee fans on cape cod’
===============================
LOL. New Englanders are good like that
My pleasure, Erin.
randy l,
nice….
I do have some rational Red Sox fans, but even though are still in a state of euphoria right now. They’ll smarten up when the dust settles.
But as we know, this is par for the course. I can’t remember an offseason and spring training where the Sox weren’t the team to beat.
Funny how they can be the team to beat every year and still be the underdog little engine that could.
Christina12
Teix is a mvp 35 hr, 110 rbi potential player….. Crawford is not
Do you think Tex is worth the money he is getting?
———————————————————————————–
I don’t think any of the players are worth what they’re making, but Tex is sure a heck of lot closer to being worth what he makes than Crawford is to 20 mil
I feel that the Crawford signing is going to end badly.
If Crawford is worth 20M then Gardner must be worth 9-10M
My patience with the Lee-sweepstakes is growing very thin. At some point the guy needs to give us an answer. He was 12-9 last year and 0-2 in the World Series. I understand we do need him but I don’t like this feeling of constantly being at his mercy.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Tex MVP with .260 average? Please.
The real question is how many times does Crawford crash into one of the infielders at Fenway. He’s lucky Beltre is gone.
E&E
good news- the mittens also came in Ernie design
bad news- she got them in Lake Placid, and can’t remember the name of the store…if she does, I will pass it along
I hope Lee sign with the Yankees and Andy comes back (both of which seem like good possibilities), but the move that Cash should be trying to complete now is to get Kerry Wood (re)signed. I was in favor of his option being picked up and then an extension negotiated at some point.
It might take 3 years @ 8 or 9 million to convince him to set up instead of close. Even though that might be a year too many, it’s not too much money, since it would make the bullpen so strong again. The marginal value of a Yankee win is very high, so spending this much for Wood fits into the model. (It would make no sense for a non-playoff team.)
Last year, I always felt confident when Joe could mix and match with Logan, Joba and Robertson and then bring Wood in for the 8th and Mo for the 9th. Wood could also close if Mo were unavailable.
I hope Cash gets as excited about this as I am and gets Wood!
Erin December 10th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Erica-we have to get those gloves!!
************
Seriously
Multiple executives believe the fallout from contracts coming in higher than expected so far this offseason is that Greinke will be traded and young stars will be more hesitant to sign long-term contracts and will, instead, look to maximize value in free agency.
“If you are [Florida ace] Josh Johnson and you signed an extension [four years at $39 million] last year that is now so undervalued, how do you feel? I really think these young players might stop signing these deals.”
Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....z17ig1wQo1
JCPD,
There is no way Tex is worth anywhere near his 22 million. In my eyes he is probably worth
around 18 million. I’m being generous with that amount.
Tex with a life time .913 OPS., Crawford .781 lifetime.
# Tom K December 10th, 2010 at 9:17 am
Chad:
does Cashman fly first-class or coach ?
————————————————————————————————————
He’s in line for Pelosi’s plane soon, I hear.
Order your Bert And Ernie Mittens here
http://store.sesamestreet.org/.....pc=6ECM069
martin-from-providence December 10th, 2010 at 9:39 am
‘I hope Cash gets as excited about this as I am and gets Wood!’
============================
Nice
I would like to see Wood return as well. I saw a graphic somewhere that had the Yankees were in the top 5 for blown saves, and it certainly wasn’t due to Mo! I have confidence in D-rob as well…not sure what to think anymore about Joba.
http://store.sesamestreet.org/.....1457_21468
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 9:38 am
E&E
good news- the mittens also came in Ernie design
bad news- she got them in Lake Placid, and can?t remember the name of the store?if she does, I will pass it along
****************************
Thanks kate! That’s awesome they come in Ernie too. I’m thinking I would have to get both pairs, so I could wear Bert, Ernie, or mix it up and have one hand Bert, one hand Ernie.
Bert mittens at Uraban Outfitters…don’t know if they have them online, but I saw them in the store…I bought my daughter an Ernie ski cap….
Adrian Gonzalez OPS 5yr avg: .888 (very nice)
Mark Teixeria OPS 5yr avg: .921 (better than very nice. much better, actually)
One “off” year doesn’t make Teixeira anything short of one of the better hitters in the game.
But comparing the two is sorta silly. They are both elite.
# Erica in NY December 10th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Erin December 10th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Erica-we have to get those gloves!!
************
Seriously
====================
Seriously?
Erin December 10th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Thanks kate! That’s awesome they come in Ernie too. I’m thinking I would have to get both pairs, so I could wear Bert, Ernie, or mix it up and have one hand Bert, one hand Ernie.
*****************
I just forwarded that link to 5 people and said “birthday in 9 days”
good job GB, thats them!!
The difference between the two is that Boston’s bid for Tex wasn’t too far from what he took from the Yankees.
The amount of Crawford’s contract sits out there by itself.
The main reason I care about Lee is because i feel with him, Pettitte returns.
No Lee may mean no Pettitte.
Just not as excited about Cliff Lee as i was 2 weeks ago.
Cashman admitted he was caught sleeping because he READ that Schilling didn’t want to play in Boston. The GM of the greatest team in sports history basis his decision making on what he reads in the papers ….unbe-bleeping-lievable…and this motherbleeper still has a job?
One title in 11 years and for that title he had to spend half a billion dollars, and now he can’t even spend Unckle Steiny’s billions correctly – what a bleeping joke he is….he should go back to fetching coffee for the big boys since he has no clue how to run a team…
****************************************
The GM’s denials aside, it seems fair to say the Red Sox caught the Yankees napping with the Crawford signing. The last time they did that was the winter they signed Curt Schilling, a move Cashman would admit a year later he didn’t anticipate because he had read that Schilling didn’t want to play in Boston.
By then the Sox had broken the Curse of the Bambino, of course, and Cashman owned up to miscalculation. This time he seems to have no such intention. But it doesn’t mean the result won’t be the same.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z17ifMQtJH
Tex’s 6yr OPS avg is even higher – .927
But Gonzalez has only really played 5 full seasons since being traded to SD so I kept it at 5.
haha Martin
totally missed that
“The GM’s denials aside, it seems fair to say the Red Sox caught the Yankees napping with the Crawford signing.”
—————
what are you talking about?
what would Cashman had done if he were “awake” ?
If the Yankees had no intention of signing Crawford, your suggestion seems way off.
If anything, he successfully drove up Crawford’s price. Yes, the Sox may have in turn raised the price of Cliff Lee.
I don’t see how that is “napping” or anything close to it.
Christina, I see reading comprehension isn’t your strong point. I said no player is worth what they’re getting paid, I said Tex was worth closer to what he’s making than Crawford is to 20 mil. I NEVER said Tex is worth close to 22 mil………….. but it’s all good.
“The one thing about the Crawford deal that can’t be overstated (in my opinion) is that they had a better player ready to sign with them last year and they took a hard line with him.”
patrick-
yeah ,holiday would have been a greta signing for them,what about jason bay ? he was a monster fenway player because of how he fit the ballpark there.he had a .921 overall OPS and a lifetime .882 OPS or a hundred points higher than crawford.
they could have had a relatively short 4 year contract with bay for four years and have had maybe 60 million committed.
of course , they thought their new found run prevention philosophy was going to make signing bay unnecessary.
funny how not making the playoffs in 2010 forced the red sox off their game and into drastically overpaying for carl crawford a year later.
JS December 10th, 2010 at 9:27 am
SJ or any of the other resident experts,
Do you think the landscape of young players accepting contracts for under market value, and bying out some arbitration/FA years will start shifting now that they have seen how flush these teams are with cash? Crawford- $142M, Werth $126M.
Players like Longoria, Upton, etc. must be kicking themselves.
—————————-
I’m not an expert nor do I play one on Yankee blogs – but IMNSHO I think the cause and effect is that because so many players are signing long term deals early and buying out the first couple of years of FA you’re seeing fewer and fewer quality free agents hitting the market and so the few who do are in line for massive contracts…it’s all about supply and demand and for the last couple of years the demand has far outweighed the supply.
This year’s free agent crop was thin, no doubt, but that’s nothing compared to next year where the top FAs will probably be Prince Fielder, CJ Wilson, Dan Uggla, Joel Piniero, Chris Carpenter, Jonathan Papelbon and Jonathan Broxton.
Mark Buherle, Adrian Gonzalez and Albert Pujols are technically free agents but I don’t think anyone expects them to go anywhere.
So you’re looking at a 1b with a bad body, a poor defensive 2b with good offensive numbers, a 32 year old pitcher who will have been a starter for 2 years, a pitcher who can’t stay healthy and is up there in years, and two closers.
# BD (Boston Dave) December 10th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Adrian Gonzalez OPS 5yr avg: .888 (very nice)
Mark Teixeria OPS 5yr avg: .921 (better than very nice. much better, actually)
One “off” year doesn’t make Teixeira anything short of one of the better hitters in the game.
But comparing the two is sorta silly. They are both elite.
——————————————————————————–
I just hope that Tex’s injuries last year were the underlying cause of everything, because his overall approach and mechanics at the plate sucked.
Thanks for the link GB!!!
Urban Outfitters has them too!!!!!!
May swing by the mall on my way home……
Ahh, I didn’t see your name “Cashman needs to go” before.
There might be criticisms of Cashman, sure. Yours probably isn’t a good one.
But I’m guessing it’s a struggle for you to simply form a sentence, much less filling it with facts or reason.
From MLB TradeRumors:
The Yankees inquired on Francisco Liriano and Ricky Nolasco is known to be available.
I can’t envision the Twins dealing Liriano after all the work they put into getting him back to front of the rotation level. And the Phish aren’t going to make any deals with the Yankees so long as Girardi is the manager. At least not any major deals.
I just have a bad feeling that Lee is staying with the Rangers….can it really take this long for a guy to take the highest offer,to play for the most famous team in all of baseball, in a state of the art stadium,on a team that 2 years ago won the World Series and has made the playoffs every year the last 13 seasons except one?? I mean, c’mon already!
rodg12,
I agree. It was hard not to lose some confidence in Tex last season.
But given his resume, it’s more likely that it was an aberration. I’ll continue to “look at the back of his baseball card” until or unless there is real reason to worry.
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 9:45 am
good job GB, thats them!!
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Kate,
Throw a Bert And Ernie site on the board and E&E are like kids laying down in front of the fireplace with their Christmas Wish Catalogues. It keeps them out of trouble.
What annoys me is that the Yankees proposals are so often used to drive someone elses.
How bout Lee comes to Cash and says, this is what Texas offered, what can you do, instead of the other way around?
Always with lee too, like the trade with the Mariners that didnt happen, because their GM went to texas and said, here is what the yankees did, what can you do.
BD I didn’t suggest it – it was in the Daily News – they suggested it. And the point I was making is that he DID admit he was napping in the Schilling trade….I’ll go on to say that he must have been half asleep when he signed nick johnson, chan ho outta the park and randy winn and traded for vazquez last year -
The Red Sox and the rest of the teams were put in a very difficult position when the crazy Nationals paid Werth 126 million. The Red Sox had no choice. Next year the outfield market is very thin. Cameron is gone JD Drew will be gone. Who is going play? They have Kalish but that’s about it.
Cashman needs to go.
A bit of revisionist history.
At the time Arizona demanded Alphonso Soriano and Nick Johnson from the Yankees for Schilling.
He eventually went to Boston for future HOFer Casy Fossum and a bag of balls.
Also at the time the owner of the D’Backs was still perturbed with GS and the Yankees for signing Boomer Wells, after Wells to do so had reneged on a handshake deal to sign with the D’Back.
Chip,
last I heard Nolasco was made “not available”
Either way, if the Yanks don’t get Lee, other teams will be charging at least double for their quality pitchers from the “suddenly desperate” Yankees.
It almost would make sense to wait til mid-season to make a move so they aren’t charged an arm, a leg, and Carl Crawford type money for a useful pitcher.
ok cashman needs to go.
fair enough.
I don’t think he was “napping” this time.
even your hindsight is 20/20. At the time, Chan Ho Park was a very good signing. Nick Johnson was debatable.
On 1yr deals, it’s hard to say anything was terrible.
I suppose he was napping when he traded for Kerry Wood too?
GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Kate,
Throw a Bert And Ernie site on the board and E&E are like kids laying down in front of the fireplace with their Christmas Wish Catalogues. It keeps them out of trouble.
*************************
Very true.
ac1 December 10th, 2010 at 9:52 am
What annoys me is that the Yankees proposals are so often used to drive someone elses.
How bout Lee comes to Cash and says, this is what Texas offered, what can you do, instead of the other way around?
Always with lee too, like the trade with the Mariners that didnt happen, because their GM went to texas and said, here is what the yankees did, what can you do.
————————————-
But that’s not what’s happening here…
Texas asked Lee’s agent what it would take to sign Lee – as in “what did the Yankees offer your client” and instead of telling them he said that they should give him what they believe was their best offer and that he wasn’t going to discuss what other offers he has or doesn’t have.
I think that’s the most fair way to handle it that he can.
The agent’s job is to get the best information he can to his client, to tell Lee, “here are the two best offers – now you have to decide” and that’s what he’s trying to do – we may not like it because we just want him to say “I want to play for the Yankees and that’s that” but I don’t hold it against him to want to make the most informed decision that he can.
Chip,
that does look like a thin FA market.
Good thing the Yanks should have some guys in the farm that are due for a shot at the team by then.
There might not be as much margin for error if there aren’t free agents to plug holes.
Ready-for-the-bigs prospects will be a huge demand.
BD (Boston Dave) December 10th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Chip,
last I heard Nolasco was made “not available”
Either way, if the Yanks don’t get Lee, other teams will be charging at least double for their quality pitchers from the “suddenly desperate” Yankees.
It almost would make sense to wait til mid-season to make a move so they aren’t charged an arm, a leg, and Carl Crawford type money for a useful pitcher.
——————————-
Why wouldn’t they be charged an arm and a leg at midseason?
People who compare Gonzalez with Tex should take to account that Gonzalez played in a pitchers park and Tex did not. Adrian is going to put up monster numbers this year. In a couple years he will be a better player than Tex.
who cares about the red soxs? This isn’t a red sox blog, I could care less who is in their outfield next season…can we go back to talking about lee’s 7th year?
i partly agree that is Lee and Pettite fall apart, to just try to get to July and then see what’s available. To do this though, we can’t have the usual April and May slumps…. yes i am talking to you Teixeira.
People who compare Gonzalez with Tex should take to account that Gonzalez played in a pitchers park and Tex did not. Adrian is going to put up monster numbers this year. In a couple years he will be a better player than Tex.
__
And with no deal signed past this year, he may be asking for even more money, after seeing what Crawford got.
with Lee not coming Cash is going to throw big money at Andy & will still need another SP..maybe go to Fla & see what the Marlins can trade
” I can’t remember an offseason and spring training where the Sox weren’t the team to beat.”
bd-
the red sox fan base and team plays off emotion so much that they have to whip themselves into a frenzy each year.
the weird thing is that red sox fans seem more excited about crawford than AG.
that’s just crazy.
Imagine the look on the face of Adrian Gonzalez when he saw what Werth and Crawford got and what Pujols WILL get ?
He’s operating under the San Diego contract in 2011 and has not signed a contract for 2012 and beyond. If his agent is worth his salt he’ll think over the amount Boston thinks he’ll sign for. Boston will have to up the amount or consider Gonzales a rental for next season. That when overpaying for Crawford will really show up.
In a couple years he will be a better player than Tex.
-
He is going to be 29 and has a platoon split, he will be very good in Fenway no doubt, but lets not go crazy.
BD (Boston Dave) December 10th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Chip,
that does look like a thin FA market.
Good thing the Yanks should have some guys in the farm that are due for a shot at the team by then.
There might not be as much margin for error if there aren’t free agents to plug holes.
Ready-for-the-bigs prospects will be a huge demand.
——————————
Well it’s mostly just the pitching that’s very weak – there will be some decent OF’s available, but the pitching is very thin, veteran backup catchers are non-existant and INF is spotty at best with the top guy (Weekes) not likely to hit free agency in the first place.
As an aside – the Brewers stand to lose their starting 1b, 2b, and RF next year
the weird thing is that red sox fans seem more excited about crawford than AG.
–
They’ve never heard of AG, Randy. They do have vietnam style flashbacks about Crawford running on Varitek.
Rhapsody in blue – again it wasn’t me that claimed that – in actuality it was cashman that admitted to it – although I tend to agree that cashy more times than not is asleep.
BD – when he made the trade for wood – the guy was on the DL for 3 weeks or something like that and had like a 5+ ERA – when he made the trade it was in desperation not because he was trading for a lock down reliever. Please don’t forget at times last year the greatest team in baseball had a guy playing the outfield who had played the OF 3 times in his life (russo). You want to bring up the swisher trade…sure ….he traded wilson betemit for him – but what GM who has a kabillion dollars to absorb that kind of contract wouldn’t make that trade? it was more a money saving trade that kenny williams did than it was a smart trade by cashman – and i’d really like to ask you what if texeira wasn’t signed – how happy would you have been with the clown at first and greg golson in the outfield?
Being lucky that you have billions of dollars to spend doesn’t make you a good or even a smart GM
and park was NEVER a good signing – nick johnson debatable? come on now – you’re smarter than that
If Lee does fall through, I say hold the cash in reserve and make a serious run at Pujols next season.
He has not given the Cardinals any indication that he’s willing to give them a discount, and he might be priced out of the market for them.
The Yanks can figure out a way to incorporate both Tex and him into the roster.
the weird thing is that red sox fans seem more excited about crawford than AG.
that’s just crazy.
__
Also, because they feel the beat the Yankees for Crawford where the Yankees never were involved with AG.
That’s just the Sox fan mentality. As long as they beat the Yankees, that’s what matters most. I live in Boston, i know!
He’s operating under the San Diego contract in 2011 and has not signed a contract for 2012 and beyond. If his agent is worth his salt he’ll think over the amount Boston thinks he’ll sign for. Boston will have to up the amount or consider Gonzales a rental for next season. That when overpaying for Crawford will really show up
Goo point they are really going to have to cough it up forAGon. they’re excited about Crawford because they should be but also maybe more hyper because they remember the game he swiped 6 bags on them.
The Yanks can figure out a way to incorporate both Tex and him into the roster.
–LOL huh ????
Chip,
well, depending on who we are talking about, they’ll be charged an arm and a leg regardless of when.
But if the Yanks miss out on Lee, and then come calling teams for a top flight pitcher, those teams are going to know the Yanks are acting out of desperation.
It seems reasonable for those teams to think they can get even MORE.
ac1 December 10th, 2010 at 10:01 am
People who compare Gonzalez with Tex should take to account that Gonzalez played in a pitchers park and Tex did not. Adrian is going to put up monster numbers this year. In a couple years he will be a better player than Tex.
__
And with no deal signed past this year, he may be asking for even more money, after seeing what Crawford got.
—————————-
It’s very true – personally I’m hoping Adrian waits until next year to sign his new contract – I still think it will be with Boston, but it would be nice to make them sweat a little as he waits to see what Phat Albert gets
And if the Nats don’t sign a 1b to a long term deal – who knows, maybe they make Adrian an ungodly offer in which case Boston gave up its best prospect for a rental.
The Yanks can figure out a way to incorporate both Tex and him into the roster.
__
Where?
They are both quality first basemen.
And no way they move Tex to third and Alex to DH.
But i would LOVE to have Albert on the team.
–LOL huh ????
—————
I say with all the crazy trade proposals that go on here, why not indulge in some wishful thinking.
It can’t hurt, right?
BD (Boston Dave) December 10th, 2010 at 10:07 am
Chip,
well, depending on who we are talking about, they’ll be charged an arm and a leg regardless of when.
But if the Yanks miss out on Lee, and then come calling teams for a top flight pitcher, those teams are going to know the Yanks are acting out of desperation.
It seems reasonable for those teams to think they can get even MORE.
—————–
No I agree with you on that – but my thing is that if the Yankees wait until midseason to go hunting for pitching and teams see that they’re trying to compete for a playoff spot then it might make the Yankees seem even more desperate and jack the price up even higher.
Plus you don’t know what the trade market will look like in midseason – there could be more teams shopping for pitchers than there are now.
Interesting; all this talk comparing Teixeira and AGon’s OPS. They have played for different lengths of time, dealing with different injuries, with different teams, in different leagues, against different pitchers, in different circumstances, in different ballparks and only one is a switch hitter.
This is often the problem with statistics.
Cliff Lee has earned approx. 23 million in his MLB career and he’s about to sign a contract that will earn him 23 mil or more until his beard turns gray.
I’m sort of on the fence with this potential signing.
I say with all the crazy trade proposals that go on here, why not indulge in some wishful thinking.
It can?t hurt, right?
—-
Anything is possible Hardwire!!
I think regardless if they wait the mid point season for a trade the asking price wil always be high because they are the Yankees!!!
Can we talk about something other than Lee, what do you think of the martin thing? good or bad?
ac1,
I compared AG and Tex. Then it said it was silly to compare because they are both elite players.
AG did play in a pitcher’s park 1/2 the time. But Tex’s OPS is considerably higher than Gonzalez.
It’s not hard to believe that Tex has been the better player over the past handful of years.
It’s moot now… what matter is what they do 2011 and beyond.
AG will likely be a beast. Hopefully Tex can continue raking as he’s done throughout his career.
Cashman needs to go
I remember very well what transpired Between Arinzona and NY with Schilling.
At the time Nick Johnson was a very highly regarded young ball player before the rash of injuries both with his glove and bat..
Schilling going to Boston had much more to do with the memory of the Boomer Wells issue then Cashman and why he went to Boston for next to nothing.
Nice try though.
JCPD -
Glad to see you made it home safe. Be careful on the return trip. Really, 5′ of snow up there, you could get lost in that making snow angels.
Taking any pictures, or no spare time to do that?
Interesting; all this talk comparing Teixeira and AGon’s OPS. They have played for different lengths of time, dealing with different injuries, with different teams, in different leagues, against different pitchers, in different circumstances, in different ballparks and only one is a switch hitter.
—————————————————————————————————————————————
I think OPS+ is supposed to take some of these factors you listed into account.
A-Gon is 137 and Tex is 134.
They’re both great players.
WCYF,
I realize statistics aren’t the be all end all… especially when you yourself post them because you’ve butchered stats in the past (Youkilis fielding % comes to mind, nevermind that it was a useless stat.. you didnt even post the right %)
Maybe you should just ask Jon Heyman and Ken Rosenthal what they think.
And I used their OPS for the last 5 seasons, not their career. So no, over the past 5 seasons, they have both played 5 seasons.
But yes, statistics don’t always tell the whole story. That doesn’t make them useless or unworthy of comparison.
Darek Braunecker is clearly a graduate of the Scott Boras Academy of Player Negotiations.
He got his feet wet with Burnett after graduation and has learned the art of stretching negotiations through patience and persistency.
Bronx jeers,
thanks, OPS+ is better.
like I said, both elite hitters.
what do you think of the martin thing?
————–
He had a lower OPS than Cervelli last season. That tells me all I need to know.
if Lee chooses Texas, Hank and Hal will make sure Cashman does his rappelling next year without a rope.
jcny21 December 10th, 2010 at 10:15 am
Can we talk about something other than Lee, what do you think of the martin thing? good or bad?
———————
At the right price I think it’s a good thing for a few reasons.
1. Makes sure that if Montero’s a bust with the glove that the Yankees have an everyday catcher on the roster
2. If Montero can catch Martin is still a huge upgrade from Cervelli
3. Ensures that Jorge Posada never squats again unless he has to go potty.
There are a lot of people here who will say that it’s a bad move given his hip problem, but considering that not a single one of us has seen a medical report on Martin that is pure speculation and if the Yankees are okay with it then so am I.
Chip,
I can’t argue that.
If Andy truly retires, it could force the Yanks hand.
Otherwise, i don’t see all the doom and gloom of waiting to make a massive trade for a pitcher to see where the market goes.
Every team in baseball, minus a couple, thinks they have a shot at the playoffs on Day 1. As teams drift in the standings, as you know, it might be easier to make a trade.
Maybe not…
The thing that I was surprised to learn most out of the Winter meetings is that Cashman flies commercial.
lol John in Ohio.
that IS interesting.
does that make him more of a “hard nosed grinder” “man of the people”, like the Sox?
At some point as he ages, Mark Teixeira will need to work with Kevin Long and change his considerable movement in the batter’s box between wiggling his bat and the leg movement all of which was taught by his father as a timing mechanism.
Granderson was much the same until Long spent time with him and we saw the results.
Last year many thought the Mariners were going to be the team to beat. I think they were one of the “winners” of the winter meeting as well.
Just goes to show you can’t look at what is done in the winter and start celebrating the WS win. Off season has no trophies, even though the moves can be fun to watch.
where is a Molina when you need one?
after all the hype, I am excited to see Montero catch. I was thinking Po/Cervelli would share the back up duties.
BD (Boston Dave) – I never said statistics were not valuable as a guide. I think some take them wa too far. And if I erroneously copied and pasted a statistic on a sports blog because I was working or in a hurry, so what. I’m sure I am not alone.
upstate kate,
surely one of the Molina’s has had a kid by now… maybe one of them is old enough to call on.
As for Montero, has Cashman or anyone else actually said that Jesus is likely to be the #1 catcher on the team?
I see many people assuming he will be, but I hadn’t heard anything official or even insinuated. I’m cool with him catching, I just wasn’t sure if it would be 40 games, 60, 80, 120?
DocTodd December 10th, 2010 at 10:21 am
if Lee chooses Texas, Hank and Hal will make sure Cashman does his rappelling next year without a rope.
——————
What could Cashman have done differently?
hardwired7 December 10th, 2010 at 10:20 am
what do you think of the martin thing?
————–
He had a lower OPS than Cervelli last season. That tells me all I need to know.
——————
Martin was hurt and Cervelli had a first half that was out of his mind.
hardwired7 December 10th, 2010 at 10:20 am
what do you think of the martin thing?
————–
He had a lower OPS than Cervelli last season. That tells me all I need to know.
———————-
Martin also threw out I believe close to 20% more baserunners than Cervelli did.
Chip….Cashman could not have done anything more…..but Hank and Hal will blame him….
Erin-
“I Don’t Want to Live on the Moon” on the iPod.
Its a sign I am supposed to buy myself Ernie mittens today
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 10:30 am
where is a Molina when you need one?
after all the hype, I am excited to see Montero catch. I was thinking Po/Cervelli would share the back up duties.
—————
Kate -
The Yankees really don’t want Jorge catching unless there’s an emergency situation and if Montero’s not ready defensively they don’t want to go with Cervelli on a regular basis.
BD
I thought there was supposed to be some sort of competition between Monty, Romine and Cisco for the full time catcher position…maybe I am mis-remembering
DocTodd December 10th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Chip….Cashman could not have done anything more…..but Hank and Hal will blame him….
——————
Nah, they’re not their father.
BD
Cashman seems like a down to earth good guy when you hear him being interviewed. Usually very candid with his answers. He’s made some big blunders as far as decision making is concerned, but you can’t hit a home run if you don’t swing the bat.
I truly was surprised to read that he flies commercial, though.
A-Gon is better than Tex facing a RHP. Slightly. And he should be as he’s a true lefty.
Mark is better facing a LHP. Obviously.
WCYF,
the problem is, your post insinuates that we don’t already know that stats aren’t the only thing to consider.
the fact that I said “it really doesn’t matter, they are both elite.” or “it’s moot now, all that matters is 2011 and beyond.” or “it’s silly to compare both players.” was completely lost on you.
there’s a difference between pointing those things out, and acting like we’re all oblivious.
Catcher is a defensive position. The plus comes when the catcher can do that AND hit pretty well.
“Martin was hurt and Cervelli had a first half that was out of his mind.”
————–
His season ended when he got hurt.
yeah, Cervelli caught too many games last year for sure…I am surprised that Po really wouldn’t do any catching at all
If the Yankees don’t get Cliff Lee there will be options that “might” not cost them their entire elite farm system players: I’m not saying these pitchers are my favorites but:
Johan Santana and cash to Yankees-slightly younger than Cliff Lee.
Carlos Zambrano and cash to Yankees-Known commodity to Rothschild.
Ricky Nolasco is arb eligible [3.8M last year] as is Leo Nunez [2M last year]- Marlins need to pare some payroll in wake of Buck and Vazquez signings.
Any others?
Erica in NY December 10th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Erin-
“I Don’t Want to Live on the Moon” on the iPod.
Its a sign I am supposed to buy myself Ernie mittens today
———————————————————————————————————————-
Make sure to buy yiur Ernie sunvisor or baseball cap to wear to the games so we can spot you, Ernica.
Yes Al, close to 5 feet of the white stuff. Hopefully I’ll get a few pics when I get back today, but more like next week on my days off. Have to read the instruction manual so I know how to use the new toy!!
GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Make sure to buy yiur Ernie sunvisor or baseball cap to wear to the games so we can spot you, Ernica.
********************
Interesting idea. But I don’t want to look like the crazy lady….
John in Ohio,
I agree. And it’s pretty cool that he flies commercial, IMO.
I do believe Cashman has made his share of blunders, but imagine how difficult it is to have to put a team on the field that has to win every year.
Well, with a $200M payroll it’s not THAT difficult. But when the Yanks have a hole to fill, Cashman has to fill it, even if there aren’t free agents available.
When you can’t wait to make the best decision and you’re forced to get creative because you can’t have an off-year, you’re more likely to make some bad decisions (if that makes any sense.)
I do like Cashman though. I know not everyone agrees.
Emptying out the farm now is not in the best interests of Cashman. The winter meetings are concluded. Late March deals have been done by the Yankees before (the Wells for Clemens deal among them) as GM’s look to see what happens when rosters shake out in preparation for the season.
The injury factor is part of why the 7/31 trading deadline is so important as contenders make pennant pushes and small market team look the shed some payroll for prospects.
This is where a team like Boston will have difficulty. They have to rely on absolute good health from their 1 – 5 starters because they have no trading chips to use.
Erica in NY December 10th, 2010 at 10:35 am
Erin-
?I Don?t Want to Live on the Moon? on the iPod.
Its a sign I am supposed to buy myself Ernie mittens today
*******************************
I’m counting down the hours ’til I can go home and order my Bert mittens.
Very nice of Ernie to give you a sign.
Martin’s OPS was just as bad in ’09 (.680) as it was last yr (.679). He’s living off his first three seasons, and clearly he isn’t the same hitter these days.
His caught stealing % is markedly better than Cervelli’s, though. In three seasons, Cervelli’s CS% is just 22% (and an abysmal 14% last yr.)
In short, they both seem like bad options.
Yankee Trader,
possible (not sure about Santana who is injured).
I still see the Marlins asking for Montero for Nolasco. Ridiculous? Too us it is… probably not to the Marlins.
The Marlins have said they will go year to year with Nolasco. If they have to trade him, they can still get a very good package in a year.
The free agent market doesn’t get much better next season. Pitchers will still be at a premium.
Cashman has to bear the bulk of the responsibility for the Yankees being in this position in the first place. Who else’s responsibility is it? He has had to sit and wait for Lee and Pettitte to make decisions that dramatically effect the makeup of the team. Maybe it will work out, maybe they will sign, maybe he has a secret plan B. I hope so given the lineup in Boston we will be facing 18 times this year.
No thanks on Johan Santana. He has had way too many injuries. He will also be starting 2011 on the DL i think.
Lee is worth waiting for.
What’s the alternative? Waiting is just the nature of the business.
Still would like to see Cashman bring in another lefty specialist, maybe even two and QUICK!
hardwired,
was Martin injured in 2009-2010? I know his hip is a major concern now and was last season, but wasn’t sure if his decline was directly related to injuries.
I haven’t really followed Martin this offseason… I guess I can look it up myself
And i know i am in a real minority here, but i also hope they get Mark Prior. I don’t know why, but i think that could be one of those possible cheap high reward opps if he can stay healthy.
SI_JonHeyman #yankees will not rush cliff lee into decision. understand its a big call and final offers only came in weds/thurs.
Erin December 10th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Very nice of Ernie to give you a sign. I’m counting down the hours ’til I can go home and order my Bert mittens.
*****************
I agree, but its not surprising. Ernie and I have always been very connected.
“was Martin injured in 2009-2010? I know his hip is a major concern now and was last season, but wasn’t sure if his decline was directly related to injuries”
Appears the guy can still OBP it a little (.340-.350) but his slugging %age went completely in the tank. Low .300′s. Gap hitter who could no longer find the gaps.
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 10:35 am
BD
I thought there was supposed to be some sort of competition between Monty, Romine and Cisco for the full time catcher position…maybe I am mis-remembering
———————————————————————————————————————-
The competition will come during ST and has to be earned, Posada’s going to catch some, but mainly the DH, depending on how the others do. Romine isn’t likely to be involved unless he explodes in ST. His defensive skills are no different than Montero’s. They both have work to do, but, Montero’s catching has improved immensely over the last year. Wynegar has much to do with that. He should be able to help Romine in 2011.
BD (Boston Dave) – who said I was directing my comments at you, were you the only one discussing this? Did I address it to you as I am doing now? Sometimes people post their observations and opinions and no one thinks anyone is oblivious. I learn a lot from fans here. Thanks for your opinion.
Erica in NY December 10th, 2010 at 10:47 am
I agree, but its not surprising. Ernie and I have always been very connected.
****************************
I understand.
rica in NY December 10th, 2010 at 10:41 am
GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2010 at 10:40 am
Make sure to buy yiur Ernie sunvisor or baseball cap to wear to the games so we can spot you, Ernica.
********************
Interesting idea. But I don’t want to look like the crazy lady….
———————————————————————————————————————-
Nah!!! You’ll fit right in with the Bleacher Creatures, Erica. Very inconspicuous.
My wish list:
Lee
Pettitte
best left handed RP on FA market who can get righties out also-Downs
resign Wood
Pitching staff[12]
CC
Lee
Hughes
Pettitte
Burnett
Rivera
Wood
Downs
Chamberlain
Robertson
Logan
Mitre
GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Nah!!! You’ll fit right in with the Bleacher Creatures, Erica. Very inconspicuous.
***********
LOL… believe it or not I have never sat in the bleachers.
My favorite spot is way upstairs along between home & third base
Cashman seems like a down to earth good guy when you hear him being interviewed. Usually very candid with his answers.
————————————————————————————————————————————
Really?
I find that he’s excellent at giving very long answers that don’t say anything.
And then recently he’s sounding like a real four-letter word.
He tells Derek to “test the market” ? No need to say that publicly. And the he says Jorge is the DH “unless he plays himself out of it” ? That’s a given. Every player knows that.
The problem is that Cashman hits meatballs and thinks he’s Babe Ruth. We all want the spotlight but I think he needs to remind himself that most of his best work was done in total silence.
Trader, the only name that I’d change is Phelps or Nova for Mitre.
I don’t understand the panic about Russell Martin’s health. The Yankees have his medical records in possession from the Cervelli-Martin trade talks. If they didn’t like what they saw, they wouldn’t have made an offer for him.
“New York reportedly was close to acquiring Martin 10 days ago for fellow catcher Francisco Cervelli, with the Yankees and Dodgers apparently exchanging medical records.”
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseb.....z17iyvZQ4F
WCYF,
I know it might be hard for you at times, but don’t be an idiot.
I am the one who posted the OPS stats. Nobody else had mentioned it.
then you post “Interesting; all this talk comparing Teixeira and AGon’s OPS.”
Unless you were directing to Jon Heyman, it’s obvious you were referring to my post.
thanks GB
I was thinking it was a competition in the way the 5th SP was a competition last year w/ Montero being the favorite
thanks kate and GB,
any predictions for Montero’s playing time?
I personally would be surprised if he catches more than 60 games, but if it means he’s playing well, then I’d love to be.
Trader, the only name that I’d change is Phelps or Nova for Mitre
——————————————————
Consider it done!!
Benjie Molina is still out there and so is Pedro Feliciano. They’re not headine grabbers but they fill a need.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 10th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Cashman has to bear the bulk of the responsibility for the Yankees being in this position in the first place. Who else’s responsibility is it? He has had to sit and wait for Lee and Pettitte to make decisions that dramatically effect the makeup of the team. Maybe it will work out, maybe they will sign, maybe he has a secret plan B. I hope so given the lineup in Boston we will be facing 18 times this year.
———————————-
Who have the Yankees missed out on that they really wanted? The answer is no one.
The Yankees started this winter with 3 targets – Mariano, Jeter, Lee – they’ve gotten two of them done.
Yes other major free agents have been signed and so it makes the Yankees look like they’ve been standing still, but none of the guys who signed were people the Yankees were targeting in the first place.
True, if Lee doesn’t sign here it limits the Yankee back up plans – but that’s life. You don’t execute your back-up plan until your primary plan falls through – that hasn’t happened yet.
Bret,
personally, I’m not worried about Martin’s health (for the reasons you stated.)
But I would be interested to know if his decline the past 2 seasons is directly related to injuries.
BD (Boston Dave) – typical, calling people idiots. Class act you are. I’m not going to stoop to your level.
BD, if Montero goes north with NY, I’m guessing that Montero, as long as he’s acceptable would catch around 75-80 games, with Posada catching 45-55 games and Cervelli or other will get the rest. Everything depends on Montero showing his stuff in ST.
WCYF,
you won’t “stoop”, because you have no response. I posted OPS stats. You commented on my post.
then you claim you weren’t directing your comment at my post.
it aint rocket science buddy. in my book, that’s fairly idiotic behavior on your part.
108 stitches December 10th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Benjie Molina is still out there and so is Pedro Feliciano. They’re not headine grabbers but they fill a need.
———————–
I would far rather have Russell Martin than Benji Molina
If Cliff Lee emerges from his unabomber deer hunting cabin and sees his shadow, does that mean we have six more weeks of winter?
GreenBeret7 December 10th, 2010 at 11:02 am
BD, if Montero goes north with NY, I’m guessing that Montero, as long as he’s acceptable would catch around 75-80 games, with Posada catching 45-55 games and Cervelli or other will get the rest. Everything depends on Montero showing his stuff in ST.
——————–
From everything Cashman has said the Yankees want no part in Posada catching. At this point I would be shocked if he catches more than 10 games.
GB7,
Sounds reasonable.
I think Cervelli and Posada’s roles will be flipped though, because Cashman has said over and over that Posada is the full-time DH.
Some interesting plan B thoughts from Mike Axisa on RAB. Discusses Greinke, Liriano, Carpenter, Garza, Nolasco, Wandy, Lowe, Zambrano and Carmona.
http://riveraveblues.com/
“I would far rather have Russell Martin than Benji Molina”
Not sure I get the fascination with Martin. Especially from the Yankees, who have an embarrassment of riches at the position. I get it from the Red Sox. He’d be the leper with the best complexion relative to their group of catchers. Not much evidence to suggest he’s going to be be all that good again.
Spinning Positive without Lee
Andy returns
AJ bounces back
Hughes continues to progress
someone from the group of Nova, Noesi, Phelps steps up
The Yankees are a deep enough team to at least grab the wild card if those things come to pass.
If however AJ pitches like he did last year, Andy doesn’t return and none of the kids step up – this will be a long long summer.
Have a nice day Boston Dave.
To be fair to Cervelli, catching all of A.J. Burnett’s starts isn’t going to help anyone’s caught stealing %.
If Pettitte comes back, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that Jorge will catch the bulk (if not all) of his starts.
I’ve heard the Posada as full time DH plan as well but to paraphrase somebody, “If you want the baseball Gods to laugh, tell them your plan”
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 10:57 am
thanks GB
I was thinking it was a competition in the way the 5th SP was a competition last year w/ Montero being the favorite
———————————————————————————————————————-
Kate, I’m just guessing by piecing reports together, but, I assume that Montero would indeed be the favorite or preference, at least until he proves otherwise. ST games start in 70 days. We’ll start getting answers then.
West Coast Yankee fan –
Im probably in the minority here .. But I really like Garza. He has above average stuff ., AL East battle tested… Such a competitor !!.. He always leaves everything on the mound !.
I HATE all the spitting he does .lol . . But I really like him as a pitcher .
Chip December 10th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Spinning Positive without Lee
Andy returns
AJ bounces back
Hughes continues to progress
someone from the group of Nova, Noesi, Phelps steps up
The Yankees are a deep enough team to at least grab the wild card if those things come to pass.
If however AJ pitches like he did last year, Andy doesn’t return and none of the kids step up – this will be a long long summer.
*********************************
Thats alot of lightning in bottles you want to catch there….even cashman isn’t that dumb to think more than 1 or 2 of those will happen…or is he?
Mike in Chicago December 10th, 2010 at 11:04 am
If Cliff Lee emerges from his unabomber deer hunting cabin and sees his shadow, does that mean we have six more weeks of winter?
********************************
LOL
I don’t understand this deer hunting thing. Bambi obviously had no effect on him as a kid.
Posada’s not going to catch much (if at all) next season. That’s why they are going after somebody like Martin. They need a veteran catcher in case Montero isn’t ready.
If Lee doesn’t come here, the worse thing Cashman and the Steinbrenners could do is to panic.
You try to convince Pettitte to come back for one more year.
You do everything possible to get AJ back to his 08/09 form.
You strengthen the bullpen and your bench.
And more than anything you be patient and then decisive when an opportunity comes to acquire a really quality starter that will be a good fit in the Yankee rotation.
BD,
I’d say “yes”, it’s quite possible his drop off the past few seasons was due to injuries. But it’s not like he’s broken down to the point where the damage is irreversible. He’s not exactly an old catcher at the end of his career.
If the Yankees are ok with his medical health records and since Martin is still in his prime (27), I’m interested in knowing if he can match or approach his production from the all-star years early in his career.
I also like Garza..don’t know if TB would trade with the Yankees…..
well the red sox ended up using Tek way more than they expected to, so I do expect Po to do at least some of the catching
and I agree hardwired, AJ would be hard to catch.
they are going to throw a boat load of $$$ towards Andy….they have to
There is no way the Twins trade Liriano to the Yanks. I don’t see the Yanks chasing Greinke either, they don’t really have what KC would want, Greinke will cost a boatload and the jury is out on how good he really is.
IMO, while the Yanks I’m sure will do something if they don’t get Lee, it won’t be earthshaking. Really, there is nothing worthy of the name “Plan B”, more like Plan H or J.
I still think they get Lee, 7/$175.
Mell December 10th, 2010 at 11:06 am
“I would far rather have Russell Martin than Benji Molina”
Not sure I get the fascination with Martin. Especially from the Yankees, who have an embarrassment of riches at the position. I get it from the Red Sox. He’d be the leper with the best complexion relative to their group of catchers. Not much evidence to suggest he’s going to be be all that good again.
——————-
Mell,
The Yankees potentially have an embarrassment of riches at the position.
The fact remains:
1. Jorge is old
2. Cervelli is not good
3. No one knows if Montero can do this
4. Romine has never played above AA and the other prospects are at even lower levels of the minors than he is.
Mike Ri December 10th, 2010 at 11:10 am
West Coast Yankee fan – Im probably in the minority here .. But I really like Garza. He has above average stuff ., AL East battle tested… Such a competitor !!.. He always leaves everything on the mound !. I HATE all the spitting he does .lol . . But I really like him as a pitcher .
****************
Tough to get a trade done in your division, but I think he would be a viable option to consider if the worst happens.
Honestly, if Cashman hasn’t heard from Lee by the end of business today, I would pull the offer. You either want to be a Yankee or you don’t. I’m a recruiter that recruits executives in the healthcare industry. I go through negotiations every day. This jerking around at the end is completely unprofessional. Relocation is something I deal with weekly. Lee knew the Yankees were going to be a suitor and should have discussed it with his wife two months ago. For him to still have to weigh whether or not he wants to come to the Yankees is ridiculous. All he should have to do at this stage is compare contracts/offers, not think about relocation.
One lefty reliever is off the boards. George Sherrell signed with the Braves for $1.2 mil for 1 year.
Erica and Erin,
“It’s so nice to have back where you belong”. The conversation about Bert and Ernie made my day.
Got to go out now.
coney1 -
You have to be patient !. he’s worth the wait !.
excellent article by Steve Goldman. Maybe Lee signing with Texas is a blessing in disguise. Can’t wait see what we have with Banuelos, Betances, Brackman and Montero.
http://www.pinstripedbible.com.....ly-wanted/
I like Garza as well. He is used to pitching in the AL east, and, IIRC, seems to pitch well under pressure.
Kate,
Garza would most likely take a 3 team trade to get him into pinstripes. The Cubs are hot for him.
Bret,
I’d be happy with Martin on a 1yr deal. He’d have great incentive to resurrect his career and it would provide another vet to catch games if/when Montero doesn’t.
Not sure what the price tag is… I’m assuming that’s what the next week will decide.
Tampa won’t be trading Garza to the Yankees.
Martin was injured in a slide play. He was running and made a stupid slide. Saw it in person.
Mike Ri,
I really do believe he is considering both locations. Otherwise he wouuld have jumped at the Texas offer last night if all he was trying to do was extract the most money from them by using the Yanks. I do believe he is torn. My point is, this should have been settled two months ago so all he had to do was receive the offers. None of my candidates have to think about the offers at the end of the interview process. Because I don’t get them offers unless they have already told me they would relocate to my client’s location and accept the offer. Now I understand baseball doesn’t exactly work that way. All in all, I suspect Cliff does want to come to NY and would have no problem doing so but his wife is pulling him to TX and that is the struggle he is going through right now. And if that is the case, then why didn’t they discuss it two months ago in this way, “Kristen, the Yankees are likely going to offer me the most money? What are your thoughts on moving to NY?”
GB7,
I think that seems reasonable.
I suppose adding Martin, if were to play well, would change things.
The Yankees potentially have an embarrassment of riches at the position
********************
And this is why you trade as many as you can for established major league players. The redsox got arguably the second or third best 1st baseman in baseball for 3 double A players who have the potential, or not, to break into the big leagues…..if i were yankee GM i’d target 2 of the catchers in the system as keepers (montero and sanchez say) and start trading off the rest before everyone finds out that in actuality they really suck and can’t catch at all….and if they turn out to be studs at least you can say that you traded them for someone who was able to contribute to another championship right away….prospect hugging is noce but if you don’t trade some of them off then you really aren’t doing the team any favors – this isn’t the bleeping florida marlins, pittsburgh pirates or washington nationals who seem to break in 4 rookies every year….
SAS December 10th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Erica and Erin,
?It?s so nice to have back where you belong?. The conversation about Bert and Ernie made my day.
Got to go out now.
*************************
Anytime you want a Bert and Ernie discussion, you just let us know.
I would far rather have Russell Martin than Benji Molina
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Go for it Chip. Martin is too risky for my blood. I’ll take a known commodity like a Molina as a 3rd catcher. Martin wants more playing time than he’s able to handle.
Montero will catch 75-80 games and DH some. Jorge will get 40-50 games and DH some. A third catcher will get the remainder and not DH.
“Im probably in the minority here .. But I really like Garza.”
————
I’d hope you’re not in the minority.
Garza is a great pitcher.
I don’t see the Yanks getting him anytime soon. But he is a legit option for any contending starting rotation.
BD, Martin or ” would change a lot of the catching duties. One can only hope that both Posada and Montero bring itheir “Thundersticks” to camp and keep them honed all season and Montero has improved enough to be vintage Posada defensively. If I remember, Posada has caught a couple of post season winners over the years.
Heyman is reporting that the Yanks offer on Thursday morning is their final offer so there will be no coming up from hear. If the Rangers offer beat it last night, so be it.
Poor Matsui, just can’t let the game go or ride home to Japan on a parade float… now he’s gonna end up on the A’s?
Poor Matsui.
Chip:
Fair enough. Nonetheless I find it shocking to see the Yankees actually offering Martin a deal as the starting catcher. He’s OK defensively and simply not good offensively. From all reports, there’s reason to believe that Montero can be same minus the “not good offensively” part.
coney1 December 10th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Honestly, if Cashman hasn’t heard from Lee by the end of business today, I would pull the offer. You either want to be a Yankee or you don’t. I’m a recruiter that recruits executives in the healthcare industry. I go through negotiations every day. This jerking around at the end is completely unprofessional. Relocation is something I deal with weekly. Lee knew the Yankees were going to be a suitor and should have discussed it with his wife two months ago. For him to still have to weigh whether or not he wants to come to the Yankees is ridiculous. All he should have to do at this stage is compare contracts/offers, not think about relocation.
———————–
Lee is doing nothing wrong
Lee’s agent is doing nothing wrong
Everyone needs to relax. Lee has just gotten the final offers over the last couple of days – give the man some time to decide, with his family, what they want to do.
Lee is not taking a long time IMO, Braunecker, who has played this perfectly, just got the last offers in yesterday. There are possibly 3-5 teams involved and all the offers have to be presented to Lee, and then his tax and estate advisor will most likely contribute his opinion, discuss with wife and parents, etc. They may decide quickly or they may use the weekend to calmly do so; sleep on it a couple of nights. It’s a big decision. This is the end game though.
coney1-
The deal should have been done 2 months ago in a perfect world. But the Lee’s agent refused to take offers. The pace at wich these negotiations are take place is Annoying to say the least.. But i’m willing to give Lee the time he needs.
I agree with you Coney1- I think he is torn ! .
Chip,
What does he need to decide? He should have decided two months ago as he knew the Rangers and Yankees would be two of the likely bidders. All he needed to know was the contract offer numbers. He should not be deciding location at this stage in the process.
GB7,
did you watch Montero much late last season?
is it possible to project how he’d do defensively at catcher this season (i.e. is he ready?)
Mell December 10th, 2010 at 11:33 am
Chip:
Fair enough. Nonetheless I find it shocking to see the Yankees actually offering Martin a deal as the starting catcher. He’s OK defensively and simply not good offensively. From all reports, there’s reason to believe that Montero can be same minus the “not good offensively” part.
—————————
Mell,
There’s a difference between being offered the role of a starting catcher and being signed as the starting catcher.
I’m sure in Cashman’s mind when he made the offer to Martin it was “to be the starting catcher until someone beats you out for the job”
It’s also possible that the Yankees will still trade Montero this winter…
In other words, don’t get hung up on the language – let it play out.
If that was the Yankees final offer, in all likelihood their offer substantially beats the Ranger offer, taking into account state income tax and any perks the Rangers might have offered.
@coney1 – pull the offer? Are you kidding me? What is the rationale behind that line of thinking…….a line of thinking that i find to be completely absurd mind you.
With George Sherrill signed, Pedro Feliciano will likely get the same kind of money ($1.2M).
With the Yankees, Feliciano wouldn’t pitch anywhere near as much as the Mets used him last year. His role will be a situational LH as a compliment to Boone Logan.
Doubtful that Cashman will go after Scott Downs if Lee and Pettitte both sign.
At this point Girardi or Pena might be better options than Martin or Cervelli!!
“Lee’s agent is doing nothing wrong”
Attention craving qualities aside, the man has done everything right in this case.
BloggingBombers Source says that although Russell Martin has offers from three AL East teams (NYY, BOS, TOR), the Red Sox appear to be his top choice.
Boston is his first choice?? Martin’s obviously got some issues.
If Heyman is correct, and the Yanks have made their final offer (the 7-year thing, $140-168M?), then what to make of that Texas conference call last night? Them throwing up their hands, after having pleaded their case for the last time? I obviously don’t travel in those circles, but it seems to me that in a deal of that magnitude, there’s a lot of details to be worked out, other than just the salary issue. That can take time, I guess.
Chip is also right, I think. This is the one crack at FA for Lee and his family. They have every right to be methodical and deliberate in evaluating every aspect of the deal. They’ll do this in their timetable, not anyone else’s.
CC and his family took a similar tact, and that worked out OK for us.
The chance for the most playing time exists in Boston. No surprise he would choose them all offers being equal.
coney1 December 10th, 2010 at 11:34 am
Chip,
What does he need to decide? He should have decided two months ago as he knew the Rangers and Yankees would be two of the likely bidders. All he needed to know was the contract offer numbers. He should not be deciding location at this stage in the process.
——————
Coney,
Two months ago Lee was focused on winning a championship for the Rangers. If you ask him then, at that moment then his choice is going to be different then when you ask him after he’s had a little time to sit and relax.
It’s like with Andy and retirement – ask him right after the season when he’s sore and hasn’t seen his family in a while and he’s going to say he wants to stay home; ask him towards the end of December/early January and the decision may be different…
Just relax – I’m sure by Monday we’ll have an answer. In the meantime there’s nothing that Cashman can do in the next couple of days that would alter his offer to Lee. If, for example, they traded for Greinke, that would more impact what they do with Andy than it would any offer to Cliff.
“I’m sure in Cashman’s mind when he made the offer to Martin it was “to be the starting catcher until someone beats you out for the job””
When the amount of the offer becomes known, we’ll have a chance to know what Cashman is thinking. Until then, not.
Joe from Long Island – the more interested they seem in texas, the more money they can get from the yankees. it’s as simple as that.
This is what I feel but not a rumor, if Cashman offered a contract to Martin that means he has something cooking to trade Montero or something like that. but like I said thats my own opinion
All this talk about taxes…….first of all, Cliff may reside in New Jersey so its NJ versus Texas……additionally, it is also likely that Cliff may pay taxes in Arkansas if he can establish he stays there enough to qualify.
Sherill gone.
Get a lefty for the pen NOW!!!
Boston is a lineup full of lefties, and truthfully even if they weren’t, we should still have two.
Mell December 10th, 2010 at 11:37 am
“Lee’s agent is doing nothing wrong”
Attention craving qualities aside, the man has done everything right in this case.
———————-
I don’t even think he’s craving the attention – he has the prettiest girl at the dance on his arm – the attention’s going to be there regardless of what he does.
I think the man has actually been pretty respectful…
When the Rangers asked what it would take to sign Cliff he could have said “well this is what my highest offer on the table is” he didn’t do that; instead he said, “just give me your best offer and we’ll see where things stack up”
Taxes are paid based on what state you earn the money in.
Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2010 at 11:38 am
“I’m sure in Cashman’s mind when he made the offer to Martin it was “to be the starting catcher until someone beats you out for the job””
When the amount of the offer becomes known, we’ll have a chance to know what Cashman is thinking. Until then, not.
————————-
Well I would also say we’ll know what his intentions were if Montero is traded or not.
BloggingBombers Hard to imagine Martin coming to the Yankees if he can start elsewhere. You’d have to think the Yanks are only looking for Montero insurance
“With George Sherrill signed, Pedro Feliciano will likely get the same kind of money ($1.2M).”
I think Feliciano will cost a few more bucks than Sherrill. If he thought he could only get $1.2M, he’d have stayed with the Mets and made $3.5M or so thru arb (he made $2.9M last year). Felciano actually performed pretty well in ’10, whereas Sherill couldn’t get me out last year.
Erin – I think Martin figures that he will get the best chance to catch the most games in Boston. He can see the Yanks want Montero to be the number 1, and that for them he is likely more of an insurance policy. By playing the most that he can, it puts him in position to generate the numbers he wants to get a better contract for 2012.
Because of that, Cash might have to significantly beat Boston’s offer to get him. Depends what Cash’s fallback is.
Chip-
I was assuming Martin would come before Montero would go, if that turns out to be the case.
Lee’s close friend CC has been quiet. I take this as a good sign.
The general trend has been for each state to levy its tax rate on part of the salary of each player for games played within the state.
Yeah, I mean tax benefits and all that is all well and good, but Texas Rangers endorsement money or Yankees endorsement money. Which situation nets him more, tax savings or the outside money you will get by playing here as well?
The Yankees cannot afford to trade Montero. We have all been discussing acquiring Justin Upton for the very reason of injecting youth into the lineup. You have a catcher here who may end up hitting like Miguel Cabrera. You don’t trade that when you are trying to get younger unless you are getting a Felix Hernandez or Josh Johnson in return. Trading Montero for a Jeff Weaver-clone in Greinke is foolish.
Tony Pena will be all over Montero like white on rice in spring training as will Butch Wynegar until he has to leave for the spring training complex across the road as the minor leaguers arrive in mid March.
Wynegar will be valuable to work with Romine at AAA and when Sanchez and Murphy progress up the ladder.
If it’s even true maybe Boston is Martin’s top choice because he won’t have to worry about Crawford stealing off him and because he likes their two acquisitions or more likely he doesn’t feel threatened by Varitek/Salty combo. in NY once Montero gets comfortable he’d be relegated to backup and if Po enjoys bounceback health of any kind and his bat is what it’s been he may be an afterthought by July. it is clear the yanks have a lineup transforming bat in Montero once he gets comfortable they ain’t gonna give anyone the front seat once that kid digs in.
BD (Boston Dave) December 10th, 2010 at 11:35 am
GB7,
did you watch Montero much late last season?
is it possible to project how he’d do defensively at catcher this season (i.e. is he ready?)
———————————————————————————————————————-
Yeah, BD. I saw him in50-60 games (just guessing) on MiLB.TV and he had a rough spot, nut, mostly it was early on when he wasn’t hitting. That hopefully was a coincidence and not an issue of taking his offense behind the plate. I thought he did quite well for a 20 year old. Still some passed ball issues, though I thought there were some that could have been called wild pitches. Has a really good arm…very accurate. Hard to tell about base stealing because they barely held runners on base. He does have some wasted motion in throwing to the bases, but nothing that can’t be fixed. Just my thoughs, though.
It’s a matter of Cliff Lee playing 82 games in Texas where there is no state income tax, and 82 games in New York where there is a state income tax.
Irreverence – true. That may be what prompted the Yanks to say this offer is it.
Mell,
I’m pretty sure Sherrill still had very good #s against lefties last season. No?
I was hoping the Yanks could get two of Sherrill, Feliciano, Downs… but maybe that’s greedy or unnecessary.
Irreverent Discourse December 10th, 2010 at 11:38 am
The chance for the most playing time exists in Boston. No surprise he would choose them all offers being equal.
—————-
Possibly -
Though if Montero is traded or isn’t ready then the playing time would be equal here or in Boston.
The answer is that right now the Yankees have a stud prospect catcher; Boston doesn’t. So Martin would be taking a risk.
What I would do, if I was his agent, is ask the Yankees for an “opt out” in the contract after a year – that way if he is relegated to a back up role he an test the market again next season.
Bob,
CC just spoke at the Knicks game the other day as did Amber Sabathia. He isn’t going to serve as a mouthpiece for Lee. I think he is just respecting the process and the decision Lee has to make and doesn’t want to bother him repeatedly.
Recruiting certainly helps. He’s known the Rangers organization for half a season and been teamates with them for half a season. He was a teamate of CC’s for years and has been friends with him after he left so much so they seem to talk quite a bit for guys who no longer play together.
Joe from Long Island December 10th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Erin ? I think Martin figures that he will get the best chance to catch the most games in Boston. He can see the Yanks want Montero to be the number 1, and that for them he is likely more of an insurance policy. By playing the most that he can, it puts him in position to generate the numbers he wants to get a better contract for 2012.
***************************
Joe-I agree
Honestly if I were the Yanks I’d forget about Martin and sign Bengie Molina. He only wants to play one more year, would be the perfect tutor for Montero, and could help sway Lee since they were battery mates with Texas.
thanks GB7,
your opinion on that is as good as any on here.
I hope he deals with pressure well. Every media outlet already thinks he “is terrible defensively.”
Every passed ball or error will get magnified. Every time Crawford or Ellsbury steal a base, he’ll get much of the blame from the media. If he has thick skin and a good support system on the team, it’s no big deal.
coney1 December 10th, 2010 at 11:44 am
The Yankees cannot afford to trade Montero. We have all been discussing acquiring Justin Upton for the very reason of injecting youth into the lineup. You have a catcher here who may end up hitting like Miguel Cabrera. You don’t trade that when you are trying to get younger unless you are getting a Felix Hernandez or Josh Johnson in return. Trading Montero for a Jeff Weaver-clone in Greinke is foolish.
—————————–
It all depends on what you get back for Montero.
Again, prospects can be great but they can also break your heart. As the Mets about Generation K or the Yankees about Brien Taylor…
jcny,
That’s why the Martin talk has me nervous. I do NOT want to trade Montero, even if we don’t get Lee.
To be fair as well. The Rangers went all out with a full court press yesterday hoping to sway emotions and make a plea to him. I think it was a pretty desperate measure to try and get them to committ by last night hence all this odd rumors kicking around. The longer they take to weigh a decision I think the more likely he ends up on the Yankees. The fluff stuff would have worked if he turned right around and made a decision.
The CC signing was agreed to on this day two years ago, so it’s not it’s crazy late in the year for Lee to still be deciding. Granted, CC signed at the beginning of the winter meetings and this year the meetings are already done; but from a pure ‘day of the year’ perspective, the timing is not different if he makes his decision today or by the end of the weekend.
Players pay taxes in every state they play in, the state the checks are written, as well as their home state of residence.
“Taxes are paid based on what state you earn the money in”
I honestly can’t imagine the tax issue plays all that large in these matters. Guys in the in highest salary stratospheres will come nowhere near spending all the money they make. Their children’s children will not even spend it all. At this level, it’s really about keeping score. Being the highest paid this or the highest paid that. Nobody runs around saying “I may not be the highest paid southpaw in the game, but look at the tax break I got playing half my games in Texas”
Having a bat like Montero is projected to be, at the catching position, seems to me to be hot item. Look how long Mike Piazza did, despite being somewhat limited there. Gary Sanchez – if he pans out – is years away. I’m concerned that if the Yanks deal Montero, it will open up a hole that they will be regretting for years.
Montero is going no where. He is their one potential allstar position prospect to get younger and keep under contract control for a while. If Andy comes back they still have four quality starters. There are numerous options to get depth to the rotation right now on one year contracts like seeing if you can resurrect Rich Hardens career. They have options. Don’t forget they can wait for the trade deadline again this year, but the Rays are finished as a team. The Angels have done nothing. The Yankees are still in the playoff drivers seat even if the Sox will compete them now for the division.
Greenberg is apparently making his rounds on Texas sports radio today.
Really don’t understand how “we made an offer” became a media event for the Rangers.
Phranchise – couldn’t agree more.
coney1 December 10th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Honestly if I were the Yanks I’d forget about Martin and sign Bengie Molina. He only wants to play one more year, would be the perfect tutor for Montero, and could help sway Lee since they were battery mates with Texas.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good point ……… a comfort level. The whole world knows about the Molina’s defensive abilities.
BryanHoch Guessing we should know which big $ deal Cliff Lee will pick by the end of the weekend. Braunecker was right: “It’s good to be Cliff Lee.”
“we made an offer” is only media coverage to sell the new ownership and show they will spend money and do anything to win. The more they are out there trying to make people believe Lee will come back the more comfortable I feel that he won’t. It seems like they are selling Texas and youth to compensate for a year less on a contract for less money. Now if Lee takes that more power to him, but everything we have read is that Lee wants the money and at his age this is his ONE and only money contract. He will never have this opportunity again.
BryanHoch By the way, CC Sabathia repeats he will not opt out after 2011. “I’ll be here. That’s been from Day 1. My family is here, we moved here.”
BD:
Yes, Sherrill’s numbers against left handed batter were still good.
Tony reagins looked like he wanted to cry after missing out on Crawford. Just saw him on hot stove.
Cashman told Russell Martin that he sees him as a starting catcher. The Yankees have his medical records and they made an offer.
I don’t see how playing time is a sure thing either way between Boston and NYY.
Posada is finished as a catcher. The team declared him DH.
Varitek still has some life left in him. He’s going to catch far more games than Posada.
Saltalamacchia has major league experience. Jesus Montero does not.
Russell Martin’s agent knows that if Lee stays in Texas, Martin becomes more valuable to the Yankees because they will need Montero in a trade for a starting pitcher. There’s some extra leverage there that Martin is looking for from the Cliff Lee outcome.
Everyone is waiting on Cliff Lee – in fact – I suspect Hal + Hank ordered Cashman to drop everything and focus on Cliff Lee at the Winter Meetings – company policy.
Cashman couldn’t do squat then and he can’t do anything now until Cliff Lee and his wife make a decision.
eboland11Source: Cliff Lee will eventually make a decision. #fakescoops
LOL
While $161 million over 7 years is an absurd amount of money, I still get the feeling that if Lee were to make a decision now he would choose Texas. Call me crazy, but perhaps one final offer of $175 million over 7 years with a “yes” or “no” answer within 24 hours would be the way to go. I personally wasn’t thrilled with $140 million over 6 years, but with the moves Boston has made the situation has changed. And even if Pettitte does come back for one more year, the Yankees obviously still need Lee. Like CC, they have had Lee on their radar for a long time, so not getting him and at the same time making Texas stronger would be a huge blow. If they had patience with their young arms then maybe it wouldn’t be as big of a deal, but we all know if they don’t sign Lee they are going to trade 3 or 4 of their top prospects for Greinke or someone else.
“Varitek still has some life left in him”
Source?
If an additonal year of a contract for 20 million doesn’t convince Lee if that is the case, than why increase the offer again? He already has 20 million reasons to sign it, on top of playing on a WS championship team, plus all the endorsement money, plus playing with his friends CC and AJ. The only reason to offer more money is if the deals are the same. If he is choosing Texas to choose Texas than that is his choice to leave money on the table. Feeling that strongly, good for him. This $175 million number seems just silly at this point.
Arod’s gotta be a bit irritated if Lee chooses Texas with him still waiting for his 25 million.
Every time he faces Lee he’s gonna think “This guy’s getting paid with my money!” Maybe that will inspire him.
7/175? no thanks!
“Tony reagins looked like he wanted to cry after missing out on Crawford.”
Don’t necessarily blame Reagins, but in light of Werth’s deal, their offer to Crawford, while substantial, was rather ridiculous.
““Varitek still has some life left in him”
———–
Source?”
===========
I guess it depends on what “life” means.
If replacement level production = life, then fine.
Saltalamacchia has major league experience
He also has the experience of not being able to throw the ball from behind the plate back to the pitcher or do anything of note with the Rangers who wanted him as the centerpiece of the Tex deal and decided to give up hope for him. Sometimes guys don’t pan out. Alex Gordon, Sean Burroughs, Josh Fields, Andy Marte, Jeff Clement, etc. All stud type prospects off the top of my head that once they hit the majors just really may not be able to reach that level. Salty still has time to prove that wrong, but he has shown nothing to say he isn’t headed down that path either.
Think of the drama to come:
(Fade up on Cliff Lee press conference at Yankee Stadium)
Cliff: New York is where I wanted to be all along.
Seems like some of the villagers at lohud who suffer from shiny new toy syndrome are getting antsy.
Just listened to the Buster Otley update, not much new. Lee will decide within the next 48 hours and the Rangers look like they are prepared to offer him the money that maybe necessary to keep him in Texas. One of the Billionaire partners was present at yesterdays meeting with Lee. The Rangers have offered him a menu of options.
Don’t think anything is profound here. Buster did say that the money is the big factor in the decison process, but the Yanks may have an additional edge due to his friendship with CC and his family.
Let’s put it like this as well. If Lee desperately wanted to go back to the Rangers and their offer was the same as the Yankees wouldn’t we be done with this by now? This end game is a final offer type of situtation. I doubt a million or two thrown in matters. So it means the money differs, places differ and contract structure differs enough that they want to check all the fine print and make a decision.
Lee could pull the mike mussina:
“it all came down to who wanted me more”
I heard a rumor that Cashman’s last proposal to Cliff Lee included a photo of a whitetail buck in Central Park.
Does Olney ever say anything positive on the Yankees anyway?
Veritek alive?
From The Onion early last season:
BOSTON—Catcher Jason Varitek’s entrance into the Boston clubhouse Tuesday was punctuated by startled shouts and the clatter of dropped objects, as his Red Sox teammates explained that they had all just assumed the veteran player had died. “I could have sworn he died after the All-Star break,” second baseman Dustin Pedroia, who sent flowers and a card to Varitek’s family, told reporters. “I don’t remember seeing him on base at all last season, much less in the lineup or catching. I thought that’s why we got Victor [Martinez], because Jason was dead. Right?” Though Pedroia insisted that it was good to see his teammate again, he was still not entirely convinced that Varitek was not dead after watching him take a round of batting practice.
Gary December 10th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Just listened to the Buster Otley update, not much new. Lee will decide within the next 48 hours
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I think we’re in for a LONG 48 hours.
I can only imagine how frustrating it is for Cashman to sit and wait for Lee knowing how much money they’ve thrown at him.
I think Lee’s people are dragging this out hoping the Yankees get impatient and up the offer one last time.
The interesting thing about the Texas conference call is no terms were leaked. No potential numbers.
If they leaked numbers it would be to get the Yankees to bid higher so I’m guessing the numbers came in below the Yankees.
I don’t understand why Lee would take less to play in Texas, although I’m really starting to wonder if the goons at the ALCS who thought it would be funny to taunt the players families and throw beer and expletives at them really have ruined this for us.
If they take less money and you hear about “atmosphere” and things like that I hope the Yankees take a no tolerance policy on stupid beer muscled jerks at the ball park in the future.
In my section during the ALCS there were two young guys in Rangers jerseys waiving a Texas flag and I swear to God I was fearing for them seeing all the “mooks” getting ready to go beat them senseless.
An older Yankee fan walked up to the two Texas fans in a fatherly way and calmly told them to take it down a notch or they are going to cause a brawl. They were smart enough to listen and put the flag away. It was about to turn very ugly as young morons in Yankee stuff were throwing things at them and I remember one kid looking like he was seconds away from hitting them. He was standing a foot away from them staring them down with his fist clenched.
Then in the ALDS similar “Fans” were ripping the Twins hats off of Twins fans and chucking them into the air. That’s just not cool or funny.
I hope to God Mrs. Lee isn’t sitting there telling her husband she wants nothing to do with NY because of morons like that.
NEW THREAD —>
While I agree, are the NY goons any worse than the Philly goons or the Boston ones????? Not really. If Lee is playing here it is fairly irrlevant. The Goons are on your side, not theirs. I doubt a moral stand against a few fans will disuade them from $20 million dollars. If someone wants to give me $20 extra million to make up for a few curses and spit balls, count me in. Heck I’ll take $100 bucks….. fire away
Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Cashman has put all his eggs in one basket. If Lee doesn’t sign with the Yankees, what are his options? As yet, we haven’t strengthened any area of our team. In fact, you could argue that re-signing Derek Jeter may actually have weakened it, given that this year’s numbers suggest he is a player in regression. Surely Cashman should have at least made a move or two by now to bolster our pen and our bench, particularly given the fact that Berkman has moved on and Wood is likely to follow suit?
New Post: Lee decision might take a while longer
I love these rational Yankee fans who are saying play it cool and wait. I want to see their comments on Lee if stays in Texas. They will be trading Montero in a moment and moaning like everyone else.
I think the reason why Lee didnt decided yet its because of the incident with the fans and the treatment of Jeter by the Yankee management. Jeter told them that he doesnt want to play for another team and they told him to test the market in the media of all places. Also I think Maddux and the Rangers management told him stories about Steinbrenner.