Winter Meetings moves that might have worked for Yanks
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2010 
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Adding Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth would have improved the Yankees outfield, but I’m not sure those contracts would have been the best use of the team’s budget. I’m sure they’d love to have added Brett Lawrie to the farm sytem, but they don’t have an expendable piece that could have matched that Shaun Marcum trade.
In reality, I’m not sure there were many Winter Meetings moves that would have perfectly matched the Yankees needs. These three would have helped them, but all three are replaceable, which helps explain why Brian Cashman has been so patient.
Matt Diaz
Pirates
Two years, $4.25 million
Diaz was connected to the Yankees at one point this week, and at the time I wrote that I liked him as a fit on the bench. Even on a two-year deal, I think it would have worked. Most of the Yankees outfield talent is at least two years away, so they could very well be looking for a fourth outfielder again next year, and Diaz seems to match their needs (right-handed hitter, good vs. lefties, everyday experience). The price isn’t outrageous. Clearly there are plenty of alternatives, but Diaz seems like a fit. Might have been hard for him to pass on a starting job, though.
George Sherrill
Braves
One year, $1.2 million
There are incentives that could bring the contract up to $1.4 million, which is a lot to pay for a guy who really can’t get right handers out, but Sherrill is terrific against lefties. Boone Logan has shown he can give the Yankees a full inning or more. With Sherrill, Logan could become an early-inning left-hander, with Sherrill still available for a key at-bat or two late in the game. Like with Diaz, Sherrill is far from the only pitcher who could fit the Yankees need for a second lefty, but he could work in that role. And a $1.2 million deal isn’t going to hurt the Yankees chances of landing Cliff Lee.
Brendan Harris
Orioles
Four-player trade
Harris is going to make $1.75 million next season, and the Twins made him available in a trade that was primarily built around J.J. Hardy. If the Yankees could have traded for Harris only, the prospect cost would have been minimal. Personally, I don’t think it would have been a particularly worthwhile addition for the Yankees, but if they want someone who’s more experienced that Eduardo Nunez and a better hitter than Ramiro Pena, Harris would fit the mold. He’s coming off a down season, but he’s not a bad hitter for a utility infielder. Again, I’m not saying the Yankees should have traded for him, only noting that he’s one of the few players who changed teams this week who would might have fit on the Yankees roster.
I would have liked Sherrill.
Now it’s down to Downs and/or Feliciano.
“Now it’s down to Downs and/or Feliciano”
Choate?
That was from the Onion of course, their sports section kills it.
If Cashman misses out on Lee and then has to pick through the remains, it mght be time for the Yankees to give him a “change of scenery”. He has been a disaster since signing Tex. And even then, he probably overrated/overpaid Tex as well as AJ. Fortunately they won a WS quickly.
“That was from the Onion of course, their sports section kills it.”
They are hilarious.
not nearly as funny as the one posted earlier about Varitek’s death…and yes, I know that is an old one
I’m confused by Jeter’s option year, maybe someone can help me.
How did a guy that gets killed by the media every year for his range, lack of power, age, whatever…
… and a guy that is not exactly mr. quoteable in the locker room
… let the last year of his contract be decided entirely by the BBWAA?
Mell,
Choate might not be the worst plan D.
Still, might as well pay a little extra for Downs
upstate kate December 10th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
not nearly as funny as the one posted earlier about Varitek?s death?and yes, I know that is an old one
***************************
kate, that one is hilarious.
BloggingBombers Fact: “Are the Yankees going to get Cliff Lee?” has replaced “Is Derek Jeter coming back to the Yankees?” as the eight words I hear most.
“Fortunately they won a WS quickly”
Yeah, that was kinda good.
If Lee does decide on Texas, it won’t be because Cashman didn’t put all resources available into his recruitment. Your “change of scenery” argument is without foundation.
Chad,
In the end, the Yanks couldn’t offer Diaz what he wanted…
playing time.
So why do you think that we’re interested in Russell Martin full-time C?
What do you think about Montero being part of a package with Joba, Gardner +1 for J. Upton?
Just curious to hear your opinions?
Mell,
Having no foundation has been a recurring theme in some of clowns arguments.
Brendan Harris. Seriously?
Chad, no offense, but Brendan Harris is a horrible baseball player whose only preceived plus is his versatility. But only if your understanding of versatility is “sucks at multiple positions” (yeah, defensive metrics need large sample sizes, but he is – across the board – seen as a bad defender).
If Brendan Harris were the Yankees’ utility guy, Cashman should be fired.
Not one player on that list would have made our team better year over year.
Diaz has to fill the 2009 shoes of Thames……not likely
Sherril is a disaster who had one good year and continues to garner attention because of it
Guys like Brendan Harris are a dime a dozen and cost league minimum
Lost,
Anybody other than Montero and Hughes for Upton…
Lost says:
December 10, 2010 at 3:28 pm
So why do you think that we’re interested in Russell Martin full-time C?
What do you think about Montero being part of a package with Joba, Gardner +1 for J. Upton?
Just curious to hear your opinions?
———————————
I’d be very sad about that. The Montero part in particular.
Erin-
If you are out there I just e-mailed you a picture from my phone. If it ever goes through, please confirm receipt. Its a very important subject matter
The only lefty I am intrigued by for the pen is Downs. Unfortunately, not thrilled with giving Toronto a high draft pick for him
It’s possible that Martin has slowed down over the last two years solely due to his hip issue. We’ve seen the same thing happen to Chase Utley, Alex Rodriguez, Mike Lowell and I’m sure I’m forgetting a few. It’s a tough injury to recover from.
You’d have to consider Montero/Joba/Gardner for Upton. The only thing is….what if Montero turns out to be just as much of an impact bat and can stay behind the plate?
“What do you think about Montero being part of a package with Joba, Gardner +1 for J. Upton?”
Lost-
That’s not enough for Upton.
And given the needs of the offense, trading Montero for Upton may be a something of a zero sum game.
Upton only adds the huge potential value he possess to the yankees if they can also keep Montero.
And I don’t see how those two things can happen as I don’t see how Arizona trades Upton without getting Montero back (plus at least banuelos and betances + others).
Erica in NY December 10th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Erin-
If you are out there I just e-mailed you a picture from my phone. If it ever goes through, please confirm receipt. Its a very important subject matter
*****************************
Erica-nothing yet, but I’ll keep checking
problem is that Lee not here & Andy staying home ( or the Yankees give him a boat load of money) they will need to go out and get a SP or two then teams will have them over a barrel …over paying teams with players form their major or minor league rosters…this isn’t looking good
Johnny, that’s kind of the point I’ve been making all offseason. There aren’t many good utility infielders out there, which is why I don’t think it makes sense trading for one or signing one. Let the young guys take a shot, and if the team really needs help, make a deadline deal.
Otherwise, every “proven” utility infielder (who won’t get more playing time elsewhere) is extremely limited. If the Yankees are going to get an inexpensive, experienced alternative to Pena/Nunez, it’s going to have to be someone like Harris. There’s a reason I wrote twice that I would not be in favor of adding him.
# CB December 10th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
“What do you think about Montero being part of a package with Joba, Gardner +1 for J. Upton?”
Lost-
That’s not enough for Upton.
And given the needs of the offense, trading Montero for Upton may be a something of a zero sum game.
Upton only adds the huge potential value he possess to the yankees if they can also keep Montero.
And I don’t see how those two things can happen as I don’t see how Arizona trades Upton without getting Montero back (plus at least banuelos and betances + others).
——————————————————
they need SP not OFers…….only trade the kid catcher for SP and even then I wouldn’t want to lose him
Richard Durrett – ESPN/Dallas on Cliff Lee:
- Playing with the Rangers was the most fun he has had in his career.
- During the winter meetings Lee was hunting with some Ranger teammates.
- Kristen Lee is heavily involved in this decision. She has been in every meeting.
- 30 minute jet flight from Benton to Arlington.
- Decision Sunday night through Tuesday.
I am not sure any of the players mentioned would add much to the Yankees. Dias, for one, wanted to start.
The fact that the Sox got Gonzalez and Crawford doesn’t change the balance of power all that much. Yes they are an upgrade over Beltre and Martinez, collectively, but the Yanks still got powerful bats.
PITCHING PITCHING and, yep, PITCHING is what counts between the two. If they get Lee thats three top lefty starters against a lefty dominated Red Sox.
@clown: How can you blame Cashman if Lee turns down a 7-year, $160M contract. Are you suggesting the Yanks offer, say, 8 years at 200M. Do you see a limit? Seven years is a bit much, but we’ll swallow it with hopes of 3 solid years and maybe a word championship or two.
Come on Upton again?
Sherrill would have been a positive addition. So far, Cashman has added . . . hmmm, his name must have slipped my mind.
Again, the equation is a simple one: No Lee = No Chance in 2011
Lost -
I don’t think Russell Martin is good enough to be the full-time catcher here. Even if Montero is greener than green as far as ML time goes. I really want to see if Montero can work for the Yankees.
And if they don’t get Lee, they still need pitching. If Montero goes, I’d rather he helps to bring back a quality pitcher in return.
On another note – the Colby Rasmus situation does not seem good in St. Louis as long as LaRussa is there.
And LaRussa is Pujol’s guy.
Rasmus’s father has been a recurring problem. And his comments yesterday are very embarrassing for the Cards organization and LaRussa personally. Rasmus’ father has done things like that before when Rasmus was in the minors.
Does not seem like they are going to resolve that conflict easily. And his father just reopened the entire mess – and I’d guess he did that on purpose.
http://www.theonion.com/articl.....ter,18639/
lol… “Kids just love the hilarious way he swings and misses at pitches and struggles to cover ground at shortstop.”
Carl December 10th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Come on Upton again?
*************************
My thoughts exactly
If you traded Joba, Gardner and Montero for Upton, you have to be 200 percent sure Upton will be a star…better than Carl Crawford…I am talking Ryan Braun with 50-plus stolen bases.. He’s got talent and he’s young.. His talent hasn’t translated yet..
Big chance…
I’d pass
This should be a make-or-break year for Joba. Another mediocre year like the past two and he needs to go. Frankly, I’d trade him now if they could get something decent for him.
YankFanCA December 10th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Sherrill would have been a positive addition. So far, Cashman has added . . . hmmm, his name must have slipped my mind.
Again, the equation is a simple one: No Lee = No Chance in 2011
———————
Let me help you out -
Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter.
Yes, Boston has added two very good players but they’ve also lost two very good players so that seems like a push to me…Tampa has lost their starting LF, 1b, 8th inning reliever and likely their closer is next (along with half of their bullpen)
The Rangers – replaced their starting C with Yorvit Torrealba
Angels – no moves
Twins – lost the back end of their pen entirely and dealt away their starting SS
So really the only two contenders in the AL that are significantly improved are Detroit (Victor Martinez and Joakin Benoit) and the White Sox (Konerko and Adam Dunn)
“I don’t think Russell Martin is good enough to be the full-time catcher here.”
————–
Doreen,
why not? Are you questioning his ability or his health? (just curious)
(assuming it would be a 1yr deal)
Joba, Gardner and Montero..I would trade those three( and more) for a stud SP…..
If Lee is so happy in Texas; if his wife is so happy he’s in Texas; if the Rangers made a representative offer (plus perks), why the wait?
It would be very stand-up of him if he’d tell the Yankees sooner than later that he’d rather stay in Texas no matter the money. Then at least Cash can get on with things.
It’s not like if he leaves money on the table, they’ll have to cut back on anything as a family.
CB,
You saw those comments about how the Cardinals want Rasmus to be a slap hitter? I think that’s about the most absurd thing I’ve read in a long while. They predict with his new hitting approach, he won’t hit more than 10 HR a year. Just a terrible job by the Cardinals, I hope Rasmus retains his power, he’s a special player.
About utility players / bench players,
It just doesn’t make sense anymore to spend a ton of money on bench players. Cashman has done a good job the last two years picking up bench players at the deadline, I don’t see why he can’t continue doing that.
Chad, I saw that you were not advocating actually getting Harris. But I still find even the idea of adding someone who is definitely not better than any of the inhouse options curious – especially since that guy spent most of last season in AAA and is on the wrong side of 30 (and thus has basically 0 potential). I just fail to see how this can be a fit.
The problem with utility players is that unless you have someone like Bill Hall last year with the Sox you might as well just go with the young guys and hope one of them catches lightning in a bottle. If none of them does pick someone up at the deadline (which won’t cost you a good prospect).
That said, just so it doesn’t look like I only rant – keep up the good work with the blog!
Cashman is not in a complete shut down mode. He probably has irons in the fire pending the Lee decision and the agents of the players he has in mind will wait it out with him unless a team completely overwhelms with an offer for a particular player.
His talent hasn’t translated yet..
—
.900 OPS as a 21 year old? I’d say it’s translated pretty well, he just had a slightly down year in 2010.
Just don’t forget that we almost traded Wang, Cano and Cabrera for The Big Unit to Az. and it was the best trade that we didn’t make.
CB:
If you told me the Redsox are going to land Gonzalez for “Kelly, Rizzo, Fuentes +1″ I would say that is not enough either. Lots of potential talent there, but c’mon man, Redsox front office hit a walk-off there.
Let’s just say that if Az. would be willing to take Montero, Gardner, Joba +1 for Upton it’s a big risk. Montero has huge offensive potential. Problem is his position; some don’t see him as being able to fill the shoes of Jorge as an everyday C. Where do you put him if he’s not going to catch? You can’t waste his bat. You have him as a strong trade chip.
CB, we are in need of a bat.. no doubt. You have to work with what you can.
BTW, for some of you that seem to blame Cashman for everything.. he isn’t the lone man running the show. He’s one voice in the committee of the Steinbrenners, Trost, Levine and yes even Lopez.
CB,
the Colby Rasmus situation is puzzling.
Here you have a legitimate top-flight prospect, “their version of our Montero,” who should be a big part of their future.
You’d think his development and his contributions would be among the top several priorities of the org.
Somehow, instead of wrapping him up like Cinci with Jay Bruce, his future is very cloudy in StL.
“It would be very stand-up of him if he’d tell the Yankees sooner than later that he’d rather stay in Texas no matter the money. Then at least Cash can get on with things.”
I doubt he cares about how this affects the Yankees. If anything, he might hope keeping our bid up there makes the Rangers paranoid enough where they perhaps up their offer from now until the end of the weekend.
“Joba, Gardner and Montero..I would trade those three( and more) for a stud SP”
And what would you do for offense at C and LF?
Lost,
Maybe this Russell Martin stuff means Cashman has a deal lined up with Montero in it. Supposedly (according to Chad), Cashman said he has something he can do right now but he’s waiting on Lee.
My speculation is the thing Cash can do right now is trade a Montero package for Upton but if Lee signs in Texas, Cash can’t do that deal and would have to back out. Cash would then have to trade Montero for a pitcher.
My thinking is, why would teams push any deal for their starting pitchers to the point where the deal is something Cash can do right now, BEFORE Lee signs? It seems the trade value of starting pitchers is somewhat tied to Lee’s final decision. Their trade value is much higher to the Yankees if Lee stays in Texas…so I doubt Cash would be able to line up a trade for a starter before Lee makes a decision.
Upton is a different story…
Wave your Hat….That wager from the end of the last thread should have read $ 3.00 dollars for every point below .270…….Damn meds
“You saw those comments about how the Cardinals want Rasmus to be a slap hitter?”
That wasn’t an Onion article?
Let me help you out, Chip: The Yankee rotation is CC and Hughes right now. Boston’s staff is superior and by quite a distance. All that matters now is the Yankees’ relative position vis-a-vis Boston, and we’re trailing by several horse lengths. Spin it as you choose.
Not to mention the fact that Boston added talent AND youth with Crawford and AG.
BD -
I guess a little of both. If he’s been declining over the past couple of seasons both offensively and defensively (especially), will he be all that much of an upgrade over Cervelli (probably, at least throwing)? I saw him hurt his hip – the slide in LA in August. I’m less concerned about that, since I assume the Yankees will have seen his medicals and give him one of their own. Unless I’m unaware of something, I don’t think he had “hip issues” before that slide. It was a doozy!!! Bad, bad slide – stupid slide.
And if they trade Montero, Martin is not a long-term answer and who’s next in line? Romine? He’s got question marks of his own defensively (which may or may not be able to be fixed). Anyone else is at least 2 seasons or more away (Sanchez?).
I would like Martin as the main backup, so that Montero can ease into the lineup – maybe even be the starting catcher to start the season if need be. But ultimately, I would love to see Montero get his shot at this.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 10th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Richard Durrett – ESPN/Dallas on Cliff Lee:
- Playing with the Rangers was the most fun he has had in his career.
- During the winter meetings Lee was hunting with some Ranger teammates.
- Kristen Lee is heavily involved in this decision. She has been in every meeting.
- 30 minute jet flight from Benton to Arlington.
- Decision Sunday night through Tuesday
Dear Brian Cashman:
It’s over! Move on to other moves….now Lee may not make his decision until Tuesday. Screw this guy and let’s get on with the offseason. If this is a ploy to get more money from the Yankees, the hell with him. If he loves Texas so much, why doesn’t he just sign there already.
WYH – it was actually rasmus’ father that said the stuff about the cardinals turning him into a slap hitter, but he later said he was… ‘joking”.
That wasn’t an Onion article?
–
Its Rasmus’ actual dad trolling the cardinals.
# Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
“Joba, Gardner and Montero..I would trade those three( and more) for a stud SP”
And what would you do for offense at C and LF?
————————————————————————————-
pitching wins baseball games….joba is a waste, Gardner can be replaced…Montero is the tuff one to lose, but they wanted to trade him and ? for Lee
That wasn’t an Onion article?
—
No it was Colby Rasmus’ dad but apparently he was making it all up? Not sure if it was true or not.
I completely understand if Lee wants to stay in TX. But just do it already then! This jerking around is ridiculous. If you are the premier free agent and you have been out on the market this long, you better be changing teams and taking the highest offer otherwise all this jerking around to simply re-sign with your current team. It’s a freakin joke.
LOL.
It’s over because of a homer story on ESPNDallas?
Now we are at the comedy portion of the blog day.
Thank God some of you aren’t near windows in tall buildings. You would jump.
“pitching wins baseball games….joba is a waste, Gardner can be replaced…Montero is the tuff one to lose, but they wanted to trade him and ? for Lee”
Hmmm….no thanks.
Mell or Boston,
Tell me what Cashman has done since Tex?
Vasquez? Nick Johnson? ChoP? Kearns? Wynn? Trading the top prospect along with two pitchers for a mediocre outfielder?Or do you consider Thames being good in a limited role or a few great months of Wood enough to say that a GM with limitless resources is doing a good job? And who knows what he could have had in trades that he passed up on.
He did fine in 2009 because the owners let him go wild spending. But without the blank checks, he’s been a failure.
If Lee doesn’t come, its not Cashman’s fault. I didn’t mean to imply that. My point is that last year he made poor moves and this year has done nothing.
So, c’mon…you got something to say, say it. Tell me how he has improved the team since Tex’s signing!
# Wave Your Hat December 10th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
“pitching wins baseball games….joba is a waste, Gardner can be replaced…Montero is the tuff one to lose, but they wanted to trade him and ? for Lee”
Hmmm….no thanks.
—————————————————————–
just a thought like everything else on here
Michael Kay is on fire today. lol
I think everyone should put this on record so there is no spinning when Lee makes his decision.
Do you think Lee ends up in Pinstripes?
I say Yes.
Lee is a Yankee. If he really wanted to be a Ranger he’d be one by now.
Pat M-
I’m not interested in the bet, but how would you feel if the .270 BA over/under were changed to .740 OPS?
# LGY December 10th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
I think everyone should put this on record so there is no spinning when Lee makes his decision.
Do you think Lee ends up in Pinstripes?
I say Yes.
————————————————-
don’t need me to answer that, three weeks ago I said no
Lee had us where he wanted us on the field and now he is controlling us off the field. If he doesn’t sign with us he is going to be on top of that Hated List with Stache Pavano.
Speaking of the Twins media here in Minneapolis wants him back bad. Calling him a warrior and how they love how he pitched through pain at all times. Just disgusting talk.
LGY December 10th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Do you think Lee ends up in Pinstripes?
*********************************
Yes
REZ12 -
Oh, I know – Lee is thinking about Lee and his family, as I would expect him to. I’m more reacting to that snippet from the article that talked about how happy he is – hunting with his Rangers teammates, his wife is happy, etc., etc. I mean, if everything else is honky-dory, does a couple of extra million dollars really mean all that much? I’d take lesser money (especially in this case because lesser is still more than any real person earns).
The only thing I can see that’s leading to doubt is whether he truly believes the Rangers will be in the playoffs, much less the WS, on as consistent a basis as the Yankees have been (and could be with him in the rotation). And, he needs to consider whether spending all their money on him will end up hurting the Rangers, and thus HIS playoff chances at some point.
So, if playoff competition is a factor, I understand the hesitation. If it’s just about money, then no.
LGY-
Yes.
LGY,
Put me down for yes.
Pat M,
Just to help with your budget…..Jeter will hit. 308 next year
OMG, SJ44 and I agree…
Lgy,
Yes
LGY -
Yes
LGY,
I say no. The wifey always controls the lifey.
LGY
I say yes.
When it is all said and done, I think he likes the big stage, and there is no bigger stage than the NYY.
what am I alone on a island here
Do I think Lee ends up in Pinstripes?
I honestly, honestly don’t know.
Why do people think that players get attached to teams after being with them for less than a season? Come on people, he was there for a few months and now he is going to give them a discount because he loves them so much? Please.
Why do you think Philly traded Lee (aside from Amaro being a moron)? They talked to him about an extension and he made it very clear he wanted to make huge money on the open market. Lee will not agree to a 6 year deal with Texas when the Yankees are offering 7 years. It just won’t happen.
SJ44 – There was nothing of an editorial bent to what I posted – it was just information from an interview I heard and took notes on knowing that people here are interested in the Lee situation. Richard Durrett was in the Rangers clubhouse daily and got to know Cliff Lee.
West Coast Yankee Fan:
What is Michael Kay saying?
“You saw those comments about how the Cardinals want Rasmus to be a slap hitter? I think that’s about the most absurd thing I’ve read in a long while. ”
Patrick-
It’s difficult to know what is substantively going on. Remember, this is just his father giving his interpretation. And his father has a long history of meddling repeatedly in Rasmus’s career. And often it’s been kind of ridiculous on his part.
If Rasmus was on the Yankees and his father continued to act as he has done it would be a disaster. The Yankees would never tolerate this. No chance.
So outside of the substantive points he’s making in terms of what the Cardinals plans are (which ultimately is his interpretation) what struck me is that he made those comments at all whether or not they are true.
He has to know after all the controversy his comments are only going to cause problems between his son and his employer. He’s a guy who is going to know the implications of what he’s saying.
You make comments like that in context when you want to create problems.
Ever since the trade deadline this year, I knew Lee would be a Yankee so yeah put me down for YES
he said if they don’t get Lee they will have a lot of work to do…
coney – he is making a very passionate case as to why he doesn’t think Boston is as good as everyone is saying.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 10th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Richard Durrett – ESPN/Dallas on Cliff Lee:
- Playing with the Rangers was the most fun he has had in his career.
- During the winter meetings Lee was hunting with some Ranger teammates.
- Kristen Lee is heavily involved in this decision. She has been in every meeting.
- 30 minute jet flight from Benton to Arlington.
- Decision Sunday night through Tuesday
_________________________________________________________________________
Hey all,
been lurking and reading mostly. At this point ill be happy if lee signs, but i think the 7 yrs thing is going to come back and bite someone in the arse. Whether it be us or texas or some mystery team, paying a pitcher on the worng side of 30 with an injury history that includes back and neck issues, i’d almost rather loss out on this fish. As far as whats written above, Lee’s wife is gonna be happy wherever the money is. Of course lee had the best time of his career, they were a winning team. I think Lee at this point is playing the business side of things game. He wants every last dollar he can get and he is going to keep playing until he gets it.
Doreen:
“I would like Martin as the main backup”. I hear you. I am none to thrilled about Martin either. Even without injury, I wouldn’t be thrilled. Jorge can still catch a bit and as Cash said, he can still win his spot back, but that means he needs his body to hold up.
I’m really excited to see what Montero can do, but you just don’t know how he’ll translate in the biggs. You really never know.. Cano had little power in the minors and his BA was around .270 before he came up. He turned into an all-star and far superseded both his offense/defense projections after he came up.
We just don’t have much room or player choice right now to bring in a bat.. it’s either believe in Montero behind the plate or replace Gardner in LF.
Lee:
Guess not trading for him last season has had a bigger impact than anybody expected. Doubtful we would be competing with Texas to this extent.. but we roll the dice, it’s what we do.
CB,
Yeah apparently (and i wasn’t aware of this when i made that post), that really was Rasmus’ father but he made the entire thing up. It’s pretty hilarious that he would do something like that but also pretty “wtf?” if you know what I mean. Even though he was lying, why would he do it (unless he’s a comedic genius) and even if it was just a joke, the Cardinals have to be ticked off.
Weird situation there…
There’s so much panic here; let’s everyone take a deep breath.
First of all – when we came into this winter Brian Cashman had three main goals: Cliff Lee, Mo Rivera and Derek Jeter. 2 of those 3 have happened…so far so good.
Second of all – all this team really needed was some tinkering around the edges, not a major overhaul…so what if guys like Martinez, Werth and Crawford are with other teams, they weren’t part of the plan in the first place
Third – let’s look at our top rivals:
Boston – Added A-Gone and Crawford. Big names no doubt. But they lost Beltre and Victor Martinez. They’re weaker behind the plate than they were last year and defensively at 3b as well while only breaking even offensively.
Twins – They’ve dealt away their starting SS and are likely going to lose two key relievers in Fuentes and Rauch
Rangers – They’re in this Lee thing with us; but they’ve also lost their starting C and DH
Angels – Missed out on a key player they wanted – they can still improve but as of yet they’ve done nothing.
Tigers – Adding Victor was a good move – they overpaid for Beniot and I don’t know if he’ll be the same guy he was last year
Tampa – has been destroyed. Pena, Crawford, Bartlett and Benoit gone. Soriano, Choate and Balfour likely to follow. I know Bartlett wasn’t great last year, but if you ask the people in Tampa they’ll tell you that he as a big time leader on that club.
So really folks – who has improved the most in the AL? Baltimore? Chicago? I’ll take my chances.
LGY-
Yes.
LGY December 10th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Do you think Lee ends up in Pinstripes?
________
Yes.
The Rangers have an advantage over the Yankees because of Lee’s brief familiarity with the organization and it’s players, if he was going back there he would have agreed by now.
I say his decision is yes to the Yankees.
Stop slurping writers west coast.
He doesn’t “know” Cliff Lee anymore than Wally Matthews “knows” Derek Jeter.
Good God, you don’t even know how these guys function in a clubhouse.
CC Sabathia KNOWS Cliff Lee. An ESPN beat writer does not.
I’ll take CC’s take in the matter before anyone else.
“we are in need of a bat.. no doubt. You have to work with what you can.”
Lost-
I agree with you. But it’s tough to trade a bat for a bat. That might not help.
And you do need to work with what you can. But what they have is young pitching and a lot of it.
That’s what they need to use to get that bat.
I’m still hoping the Rasmus situation blows up in St. Louis.
coney he is also saying that the Red Sox are huge spenders as well, payroll of highest priced tickets in baseball and NESN makes as much as YES.
CC Sabathia KNOWS Cliff Lee. An ESPN beat writer does not.
–
That ESPN beat writer is intimately familiar with Lee’s nude form coming out of the shower, I think we can trust his insight into the inner bowels of Cliff Lee.
“Lee:
Guess not trading for him last season has had a bigger impact than anybody expected. Doubtful we would be competing with Texas to this extent.. but we roll the dice, it’s what we do.”
I was thinking the same thing earlier today.
A week ago I would have said yes, but at this point I don’t see him choosing the Yankees. Hoping I’m mistaken.
Boston – Added A-Gone and Crawford. Big names no doubt. But they lost Beltre and Victor Martinez. They’re weaker behind the plate than they were last year and defensively at 3b as well while only breaking even offensively.
—
I agree except for the last part. I think A-gon and little CC improves their offense. Crawford is also an upgrade on defense but not a huge upgrade. He really should play CF in my opinion.
I also think you need to add the White Sox to that list of “top rivals,” they are going to be really good this year.
I say Lee wears home pinstripes and New York road greys. Furthermore, he’ll wear No. 35. Mussina is 2 years removed and the number wasn’t retired.
Not voting garners you an automatic tag as a Spin Doctor or The King of BS. Maybe both.
The very fact that Lee’s agent had to publicly tell the Rangers that he wasn’t falling for their little ‘tell us how much you want’ ploy means the money is a real factor for Lee.
Rangers aren’t touching the Yankees in money, no matter how many billionaire owners they have. Almost every team in baseball is owned by a richer family or organization than the Steinbrenners. None of them want to dump money into their teams because its just throwing it away.
And now a person who just dumped money into purchasing a team and still has debt to pay off and has yet to even get a bit of payoff or return is going to throw 20 a year at 1 man? While other owners aren’t paying jacksquat?
Don’t believe it.
“Yeah apparently (and i wasn’t aware of this when i made that post), that really was Rasmus’ father but he made the entire thing up.”
Patrick-
That’s why I didn’t really know what to make of the actual points he was making in substance.
The larger story was that he was simply mocking the cardinals organization and basically suggesting they were incompetent.
It struck me as wildly implausible for the Cards to want Rasmus to lose 15 pound of muscle. But people have taken Rasmus’s father’s words as fact all over the blogosphere.
His dad has done this repeatedly since he’s been drafted. They’ve made some absurd demands of the cards even when he was struggling in the minors.
He’s trying to create problems there. That seems to me to be the bigger story. Will it work? Who knows.
Pujols was already fed up with Rasmus. I can’t imagine this is helping. And Pujols is the one with the power in St. Louis – even more than Tony.
LGY . Yes on Cliff Lee…….And I wish I were the Real Estate Agent handling his home purchase……SJ, When time permits e-mail as to where you’re staying in Vegas…..I think there was a crack in the negotiations last night with the Boss…….
Higher price tag: Greinke or Upton…..and factoring in the price tag, which trade would benefit the Yankees more while hurting the least?
LGY – I’m a little late to the party but YES!
thank you Chip for being the voice of reason
even w/o Lee, I am not worried.
SJ44 – Stop slurping writers west coast. He doesn’t “know” Cliff Lee anymore than Wally Matthews “knows” Derek Jeter. Good God, you don’t even know how these guys function in a clubhouse. CC Sabathia KNOWS Cliff Lee. An ESPN beat writer does not. I’ll take CC’s take in the matter before anyone else.
************************
Again, I heard an interview and thought it was from an interesting perspective. It was clear from the interview that he knew quite a lot about the situation no matter what you say. So I posted what I could write down here as I thought some might be interested. If you don’t think it’s worth reading, scroll by and don’t comment. You are not ever going to dictate what I choose to post here. I hope that is as clear as it can be.
CB,
It is pretty odd, you’re right.
You’ve said that you want this situation to continue, I’m assuming because you want Rasmus on the trade block? If the Yankees were to somehow trade for him, do you really want this headache?
Sounds like he is really torn by this decision.
Texas – close to home, no tax issues, had a lot of fun there w/ TX teammates, NYY fans yelled at his wife (I know he said it won’t make a difference on his decision but I find that hard to believe….Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned…and I’m sure his wife is pushing for Texas).
New York – most likely a lot more money (even with the tax issue), probably another guaranteed year, a legitimate contender ever year, good friends with the Sabathia’s.
Can’t blame him for taking his time. But let’s go here.
How much impact would the players union have on Lee if the Yankees offer is significantly more money? Don’t thr pressure players to take the bigger deal so that contracts keep going up in value?
Patrick-
Rasmus has enormous pull power to RF. He’s a true plus defender. I am a bit concerned about how he hits LH pitchers (he doesn’t look great doing so). But yes I’d like him on the Yankees. He could play RF. He has enough arm.
Maybe I’m off on this – but I think that if you’re a 22 year old and you walk into a club house with Jeter, Alex, Mo, CC, Tex, Posada, and on and on and there are 27 flags flying in the stadium your father is going to shut up.
Patrick December 10th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Boston – Added A-Gone and Crawford. Big names no doubt. But they lost Beltre and Victor Martinez. They’re weaker behind the plate than they were last year and defensively at 3b as well while only breaking even offensively.
—
I agree except for the last part. I think A-gon and little CC improves their offense. Crawford is also an upgrade on defense but not a huge upgrade. He really should play CF in my opinion.
I also think you need to add the White Sox to that list of “top rivals,” they are going to be really good this year.
———–
Patrick,
I think the defensive upgrade in LF is negated by the fact that Carl Crawford patrolling left is like Albert Pujols hitting in a little league park. With the Monster behind him there’s no real need for Crawford’s range.
I think Crawford’s offense will mirror what we saw from Johnny Damon when he was in Boston. He’ll learn to use the wall and so he’ll bang balls off that, once in a while he might pull one around the Pesky pole, but by and large I doubt he’ll go that route.
They lost a lot of power with Victor and Beltre – they replaced some of it but not all. They’ll be a very strong team if healthy, but then again they would have been a strong team if healthy last year too…
I just think that with the losses Tampa has taken the AL East is a two horse race again and I don’t see the Sox riding away from the Yankees.
I think a lot of fans are misinterpreting this entire situation. Lee isn’t conflicted or torn, he just wants a lot of money. It’s taking awhile for him to sign because his agent is playing the marketplace and trying to illicit the highest offers from the Rangers and Yankees. Lee’s agent is trying to get both the Rangers and Yankees to go to the limit of their budget to sign his client and it takes some time. I think we are at the point where both teams have done this but we only got there last night. So in reality, Lee has only been thinking about the decision for less than 24 hours.
LGY, Yes but his heart will always be in Texas.
blake December 10th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Higher price tag: Greinke or Upton…..and factoring in the price tag, which trade would benefit the Yankees more while hurting the least?
—————————
IMNSHO – there’s always a higher price to be paid for pitching.
I would go after Greinke over Upton simply because of the fact that the Yankees need pitching more than offense.
I think too much has been made of his Social Anxiety Disorder by too many people who don’t understand it.
ok, for argument’s sake:
upton>rasmus> kemp, from purely a baseball standpoint, not contract or trade-ability.
or do i have the order wrong?
If I’m Cashman I try to pull Kemp out of the dodgers, his down season and tarnished reputation might make him cheaper.
Erica-just got your e-mail
LGY…a very nervous yes
I’m watching a special on Ricky Henderson on the MLB Network…….Lifetime obp of .402 ….His time in NY with Mattingly, Winfield and a great lineup and not to make the postseason is one of my all-time Yankee disappointments…….He was a marvel and the best that ever hit in the leadoff position……..Incredible ballplayer
I wonder how many times the Yankees would have won the wild card in the 80s. If there was one…
You can post whatever you want west coast.
Just don’t get your panties in a wad when you get called on your nonsense.
CB,
Yeah I would take the chance as well. Rasmus is a very talented player. He’s also the type of player that is never available for trade so this could be a very rare opportunity.
I also believe that the Yankees are a very well run organization and at this point in their respective careers I think Girardi is a better manager than La Russa.
Chip,
I think that Victor Martinez is overrated. And I think Beltre would have regressed next year had he stayed with the Red Sox. I would definitely take Gonzalez and Crawford over Beltre and Martinez.
From MLBTR “Sabathia may be recruiting Lee for the Yankees, but Rangers starter Tommy Hunter tells Jon Machota of the Dallas Morning News that he’s trying to keep Lee in Texas.”
Gee I wonder who has more pull in that one.
ok, for argument’s sake:
upton>rasmus> kemp, from purely a baseball standpoint, not contract or trade-ability.
or do i have the order wrong?
—
Just my opinion but I’d go with Upton > Kemp > Rasmus
LGY -
I don’t know. And I think it’s rather rude to say if I don’t take a stand, I’m a spin doctor and/or a King of BS. I’ve been very open about my ambiguity and I don’t care about whether I’m right or wrong. I’m assuming you directed that statement at me, because I didn’t read anyone else being on the fence.
LGY – I want to be recorded as a YES with an *
* denotes that fan never wavered on his view despite the media nonsense and the tomfoolery/negativity of this board as it relates to this matter
I don’t know where he will sign….
….but the longer it drags, the worse it is for the Yankees.
CB -
St. Louis is no schlock organization. It doesn’t sound like Rasmus’ father will be intimidated by anyone.
Do work, CC
THE Tommy Hunter???? We’re doomed
I, too, would be swayed by someone with 250 major league innings.
I’m not “panicking”, as SJ44 would say, but if the Yanks don’t sign Lee I believe they’ll finish behind Boston in 2011. If they sign neither Lee nor Pettitte, I’m very sure they will. Barring some genius move by Cashman of course.
I just watched too many Yank games in August and September to believe otherwise.
That’s why I’m sure the Yanks will end up with Lee. At the years and price though I believe it will probably end in more tears than laughter.
The longer it takes the more I think he doesn’t want to pitch here. Why else would this be taking so long?
jimbaumbach
A friend of Cliff Lee who saw him yesterday predicts — with no inside information — that Lee will pick Rangers over Yankees
And – this blog is polarized enough without putting lists together (that can be dug up at a later date to criticize those who were “wrong” – not saying by you, but you can bet someone will). I opted out of one list yesterday, because my total opinion was mischaracterized by my appearance on that list.
And I am saying this in a very calm, non-confrontational manner, though because the words are written you can’t tell.
Doreen-
That’s entirely possible as well. It’s a risk. But that risk is a big part of why Rasmus could in theory find himself out of St. Louis.
But his dad really is hard to believe. He clearly thinks he knows more about baseball than LaRussa, McGuire and the Cards leadership. He’s an issue. He seems to have little respect for the Cards and LaRussa in particular and this makes him feel that he’s well within his rights to publicly ridicule them with the kind of common day internet snark one would expect from a teenager.
Doreen, I believe you are taking LGY too seriously…
A source close to the negotiations says that half of the sources will be right and half will be wrong…
Doreen,
I was just joking with that stuff.
But for the record that comment was not directed at you.
CB -
I’d be afraid he’d be worse with Girardi – pretty much still green compared to LaRussa. It’s a shame, because it would seem he’s willing to put his son’s career at risk. Not to mention his potential earnings.
LGY,
Yes
but perhaps more important to ask…
Is Cliff Lee at 7/$160-170M a good signing?
I’m sure most of us feel Lee is coming to NY (right or wrong)
“I, too, would be swayed by someone with 250 major league innings.”
Relevance? Innings pitched has to do with what?
LGY -
Sorry if I over-reacted. My sarcasm/kidding meter is off today. I should learn when I’m in this kind of a mood to just scroll on. Again, sorry.
The majority is usually wrong. Lee to Texas.
Buster_ESPN
Heard this: The Yankees are now taking an aggressive approach in the Russell Martin conversations. It’s Boston vs. NYY, plus others
Doreen
Also, the intention of the list was really not to criticize anyone for being right or wrong. No one knows what will happen.
Lately I just feel like there has been a lot of spinning on this board. So, more like for if someone says, I knew Lee would be a Yankee all along! despite countless negative posts or I knew Lee would be a Ranger all along! despite positive posts. Good to have a straight to the point answer
No problem Doreen.
I should have added some type of yellow face guy to my post to make it more clear I was kidding.
“Heard this: The Yankees are now taking an aggressive approach in the Russell Martin conversations. It’s Boston vs. NYY, plus others”
—————-
Unless this means they feel the chance that they’ll be trading Montero is high, this is fine with me.
They either get a 1yr fill-in catcher or drive up the price for someone else.
Rasmus’ dad slammed a Yankee (Gardner) in his comments too. It’s tough to imagine the Yankees bringing in Rasmus in place of a guy Rasmus’ father bashed in the press.
Upton is the guy.
Anyone have any idea why the specifics of the rangers off, money wise anyway, hasn’t been leaked? Just thought that was interesting.
KGY…..Beware, Doreen is LoHud Royalty
I don’t have any idea if Cliff Lee will sign with us. I’m just hoping he makes up his mind soon.
Erica – not sure if you’re around but I just saw your mittens on facebook, very cute! lol
And for the record I am so over Cliff Lee.
Listening to Internet Radio today….
Carl Crawford leaving the Rays was blamed on the Yankees.
“All the years the Yankees talked about being interested in Crawford gave Crawford an inflated sense of self-worth. We dont blame the Red Sox at all. We blame the Yankees for Crawford’s departure”
haha
To be completely honest, with the way the Cardinals have treated Rasmus, I almost want to side with his father on this one. Although to be fair, it sounds like the father has been a problem for awhile now.
Cashman better be right about trading Montero. I really believe even if we get Lee he’s still going to do it.
If Montero turns into Miguel Cabrera it will turn out to be the worst Yankee trade in decades. I would even say it could be worse than Phelps for Buhner since Buhner never turned into the kind of bat we’re talking about here.
The worst thing he can do is trade Jesus and then watch the old guys fail in the retirement home/DH thing.
This off season is getting dangerous. I’d rather the Yankees keep Montero and see what they have regardless of whether they get Lee or not.
Trading Montero and Gardner for Upton is stupid. You trade 2 cost controlled valuable every position players for one? Makes zero sense to me.
If you get Upton for Gardner and minor league pitchers or another catcher that’s a different story.
But to trade a potentially cornerstone C and your speedy starting LF for one OF who didn’t hit 40 HR’s last year is stupid in my book. Adding Joba to that offer is even worse since you need to let him work with Rothschild before you give up on him.
If the Yankees are going hard after Martin it makes me wonder why they want him so bad. Is it to replace Cervelli’s role on the team? Or is it because they are worried about Montero starting too many games? Maybe a combination of both..
Why not just turn Jorge into a 3rd catcher/backup 1B/utility player/coach type and give Martin/Montero everyday roles?
G. Love,
You are spot on.
G Love,
I will go one step further. I would rather the Yankees finish in 3rd place next season than trade Montero.
“Is it to replace Cervelli’s role on the team? Or is it because they are worried about Montero starting too many games? Maybe a combination of both..”
Patrick, neither of those explanations make sense to me.
It sounds like the bidding is the $4M+ range. When was the last time the Yanks paid that kind of money for a backup?
Something else is going on here.
Melky to KC
Here is my day late, dollar short, drive-by for the day, likely totally out of context with the current conversation, but oh well. It’s still baseball talk.
Total guess. Lee chooses the Yankees because of the overall cachet associated with the organization and his desire to be part of the team that continues to slay the Sux.
Here’s hoping I’m right.
Stay warm everyone, especially those whose weather is like ours is in RI. Mighty damned cold!
See ya!
@Buster_ESPN Heard this: The Yankees are now taking an aggressive approach in the Russell Martin conversations. It’s Boston vs. NYY, plus others.
—
Btw people, just because the Yankees said they view Martin as a “starting catcher”, that does not mean he would start the majority of games. They likely just want a possible upgrade over Cervelli, and backup in case Montero does not work out.
And trading Montero would be incredibly stupid for all but very few players.
Montero isn’t getting traded.
Couple of things:
Greinke:
Social Anxiety Disorder has varying degrees. Some so bad that they not only isolate themselves but alienate themselves from society. Some less severe that with therapy it can be arrested and become a non-issue. What Greinke’s S.A.D level is, only he and those close to him really know. Obviously he is an MLB ballplayer so he isn’t alienating himself.
Lee:
I’ve been trying to dig all day and all I am getting is mostly silent treatment from my usual sources. That tells me that nobody really knows which way he is leaning. I’ve been told that a decision can come within the next 24 hours.
Jeter:
He seems to cough an awful lot, i’ve noticed this the past year when he steps up to the plate and then was reminded of it by all the “throat clearing” at his press conference. He really tired last season and even so lately. Maybe I am just reading into it too much. -shrug-
Yankees:
There are a few things in the works aside from Martin. A lot depends on Lee.
Montero:
You have to use him to get SP in the event we don’t get Lee. Possible to use him as a “bat for a bat” if it brings back the “right” bat. Possibly Upton, but maybe use him as a chip for a bat unmentioned in the media as of yet (that rabbit again).
Violins:
Playing their hearts out, time to get the ball rolling already.
I was leaning towards Lee signing with the Yanks, but with this breaking news concerning Tommy Hunter’s recruitment – I can’t see him turning down the allure of playing Little League baseball with the Antler and Claw brigade
Upton’s .899 OPS was in 2009, down to .799 in 2010..
Swisher has been over .869 the past two years and .864 and 836 in 2006-2007
Granderson had 792., 780 858 and 913, the past 4 years (steady drop)
Gardner 764 and 724, with little power and lots of SB
No doubt Upton is talened.. But is his talent worth giving up Gardner, Joba and Montero…
Maybe