Looking for another Marcus Thames
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 11, 2010 
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The Red Sox, it seems, learned their lesson when Darnell McDonald became an everyday outfielder last season. Depth matters, and the Red Sox apparently have no plans of trading Mike Cameron now that Carl Crawford is in the outfield mix. He’s a bit of injury insurance, and a legitimate starting option against left-handed starters.
He’s the kind of outfielder the Yankees could use.
The Russell Martin saga is the most interesting position player question hanging over the Yankees right now, but when Martin makes his decision, the Yankees most important non-pitcher acquisition will be their fourth outfielder. They don’t need a name — or a contract — like Cameron’s, but they need someone who can fill the corners and hit left-handed pitching.
Curtis Granderson, Brett Gardner and Nick Swisher will be the regulars, but all three were hurt at some point last season. Randy Winn didn’t get it done, and Marcus Thames proved vital, even though he was an adventure in the field. Colin Curtis, Greg Golson and Kevin Russo — and maybe Brandon Laird — give the Yankees some young depth that can fill in from time to time, but they’ll want a proven presence.
The emergence of Thames as an offensive force was crucial for the Yankees last season. They’ll need someone else to step into that spot in 2011.
Associated Press photo of Thames
This waiting is insufferable! The only people happy with it are the advertisers for this blog, because I must check it 14 times an hour!
I know – how about a guy named Marcus Thames? I hear he hit pretty well for whatever team he played for last year.
Thames was great as a platooning RH hitter but he can’t seriously be considered the 4th OFer. Hopefully they find someone who can at least provide adequate defense in the OF. Thames looked like he could drop any fly ball at any time.
http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/
Tweet all baseball media figures and players you follow in the form of a question. Ask, is this true???
NYYrumors
@PeteAbe Cliff Lee + wife set to make decision tomorrow! Someone connected to the Lee’s says YANKEES YANKEES YANKEES!!! #Yankees #CliffLee
less than 5 seconds ago via web in reply to PeteAbe
LET THE GOOD THAMES ROLL!!!!!!! Make him an offer he can’t refuse, Godfather……
Not sure the yanks could use a $7.5 mm 4th outfielder who is injury prone and past his prime.
The longer this takes, the more confident I am that long term, the Yankees will be fine.
Andy will probably come back. For half a season if not the entire thing.
Yanks can make a trade for decent, not ace-quality pitching, and hold on to Montero.
Yanks can add Martin to provide options behind the plate, and trade Cervelli or send him back to AAA.
Yanks can strengthen the bullpen, which is still needed.
No Lee. No problem.
Stop panicking. Boston added NO pitching. Gonzalez has to learn new pitchers in a new league. Crawford has to learn the Green Monster and learn to play in the cold harsh reality of boston.
Stop the panic.
Are you trying to say they are looking for a guy who hits like Thames and fields like Cameron?
JoeMimic December 11th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Bret,
I followed and re-tweeted. We can make this thing go….Maybe
***********
Thanks for the re-tweet my friend. We’ll see how it goes. Flip the panic over to the other side for a change.
pat December 11th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Been in and out all day so don’t know if this is old news……
#Dodgers sign LHP Wilkin de la Rosa,
———————————————————————————————————————-
Thanks for that update, pat. I hadn’t seen it. He showed so much promise with a mid-90s fastball, slider and a knee-buckling change-up. He had started as an outfielder, and he had almost no experience in Charleston and Tampa, then then hurt his arm. A real pity, too.
Sign Thames already. Or maybe Delwyn Young.
Or Lastings Milledge?
Would have been nice to get Matt Diaz but I can’t blame him for taking a starting job with the Pirates
DaSaint,
I’d definitely take Lastings Milledge to be a 4th outfielder. That would be a nice pickup
I hope they get Milledge.
Did Thames ever sign with that Japanese team that was wooing him?
Or Willie Bloomquist?
I think Bernie Williams hasn’t retired yet.
What about Reed Johnson? Only hit .262 last year but hit .301 against lefties. I know there was a lot of talk of getting him last year, he would probably come pretty cheap too.
Lots of options still available.
That’s why Cashman’s not in a rush.
Listened to the Carl Crawford inerview.
He’s no Curtis Granderson or Matt Holiday in front of a mike.
He is no Curtis Granderson or Matt Holiday, Period.
I just hope they get Lee. At this point i don’t care if it’s Robert E., Bruce, or Clifford Lee!!!!!!!
Cashman and Hal need to learn from the Red Sox.
“Depth matters, and the Red Sox apparently have no plans of trading Mike Cameron now that Carl Crawford is in the outfield mix. He’s a bit of injury insurance, and a legitimate starting option against left-handed starters”.
I think Cameron makes about $7 million. Last year the Yankees invested $2.9 million in their entire bench. Winn, Cervelli, Thames, etc.
Didn’t Cameron get that much because the Yankees were rumored to be involved?
What about Andruw Jones? Right-handed, can still play corner outfield decently and has power and patience. It shouldn’t cost more than $2M, just Randy Winn money with much better production in recent years.
ANDRUW JONES • 2010 Team: White Sox
• 2010 Salary: $500,000
• Signed With:
POS AGE HR RBI OPS
OF 33 19 48 .827
Jones will give your team some power, but how consistent he can be with that is the question. He can still hit home runs in bunches, and for that he is still worth a gamble, but he doesn’t bring much else to the table at this stage in his career.
Bring back Roy White.
Not to worry. Laird and Golson will make the team out of spring training. No heavy Cameron strikeouts or concrete glove of Thames. New season – new blood. The Yankees need to get younger and more athletic.
I understand the dynamics surrounding bench players, or at least the prevailing school of thought. It makes sense.
1. The good ones want to start and/or are too expensive.
2. You can always pick someone up mid-season.
3. Use cost-controlled guys from the minors.
All true, but the Yankees are somewhat unique. They will have to deal with injuries as every team does, but, they also have aging stars at key positions, i.e. A-Rod and Jeter who will need to sit more and more. And, they play in the AL East. You can’t really afford to run Peña, Curtis, Golson and Russo out there and expect to compete IMO.
This all ties in to the A-Rod contract and a few others and the Steins desire to keep the budget close to $210. It will be a challenge for Cashman to deal with this. Maybe Laird and a few other young guys will come into their own.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Cashman and Hal need to learn from the Red Sox.
“Depth matters, and the Red Sox apparently have no plans of trading Mike Cameron now that Carl Crawford is in the outfield mix. He’s a bit of injury insurance, and a legitimate starting option against left-handed starters”.
I think Cameron makes about $7 million. Last year the Yankees invested $2.9 million in their entire bench. Winn, Cervelli, Thames, etc.
___
The same Cameron that missed most of last season? All that Red Sox depth and remind me where they ended up last year?
They wound up 6 games behind us and were not eliminated until September winning 89 games.
We definitely need to invest a little more in our bench but is there anyone out there worth it?
I’m just saying, it would be nice to have some bench depth so when A-Rod sits you are not throwing a .227/.258/.247 guy like Peña out there.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
They wound up 6 games behind us and were not eliminated until September winning 89 games.
__
Yeah and the Yankees made it to the second round of the playoffs. You are so right, we should totally learn from the Red Sox.
Bill Hall anyone?
And the only reason cameron is now a bench player is because he is under a 2 year contract and was supposed to be a starter, but he was hurt and ineffective. Not because he was brought in to be bench help.
just sayin. I agree it would be nice to have more bench power, but there is a reason is it the bench.
Lastings Milledge is just a notch above Elijah Dukes.
AndrewMarchand
RT @espn: Texas Rangers manager: Gut feeling Cliff Lee will return – http://es.pn/ebqEuf … Note, this is just his prediction. #Yankees
it’s so funny.
pete abe is has a school boy crush on crawford.
why are you copying Ron Washington’s ‘gut feeling’?
No thanks on Bill Hall, the bat can be nice but he’s the Marcus Thames of the infield. I’d take Hairston Jr back before Hall.
Thames was better than anybody on the Sox bench last year.
if the yankees gave crawford 7/142, pete abe would be outraged.
We are not the average team. We have older players who need to sit more often and we have no offensive players who can come close to replacing their production. That’s a fact. In my opinion Cashman tends to minimize it’s importance. I specifically recall numerous times last year when we went down in order with men on base because we had Peña, Cervelli, etc. in there consecutively.
Anyway, I think the Sox would have been better if they invested the 10 million bucks Lowell made last season to OPS+ 79 in bullpen arms.
ac1,
Their depth was nothing short of remarkable.
How many injuries did they have? Even without Youk, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Cameron, Martinez, etc. they scored tons of runs.
Yet the Yankees had to sacrifice offense everytime someone missed a game. Or they played guys hurt because they couldn’t afford to lose their bat.
Say what you want about Boston, but questioning their depth is absolutely ridiculous. Either you are the ultimate homer or have little knowledge. In a year where starters were dropping like flies, their bench still kept them competitive.
“Washington hasn’t had any conversations with Lee and doesn’t think any are needed.”
Enough said – Washington does not anything more than anyone else at this point.
if the yankees gave crawford 7/142 they entire baseball establishment (media, owners, GMs) would be screaming for a salary cap, how the yanks just ruined baseball forever, and how they’re buying world series.
didnt cervelli end the year about .260? pretty good for a back up catcher. It is hard to convince good players to sit the bench on our team. it’s a fact.
Felipe Lopez plays all of the infield and has shown some pop in his bat. He might relish the chance to come back and play against Boston who dumped him last year.
If the Yankees gave Crawford 7/142, no one here would criticize it.
Milledge might not be a bad option. Hit .320 against lefties, 6 assissts, 1 error.
we’d be happy to have him, but still believe it was way too much to pay.
Watching ESPN News … when they talked about pending Cliff Lee decision, they were showing Buffalo Bills highlights … so am now convinced Mr Lee and his beloved wife are NYY bound !!!
Gut feeling I’m about to vomit. Too much rum. I’ll be back later with an update.
“Cashman and Hal need to learn from the Red Sox.”
———————
LMAO
They should sign players to be starters and when they bust hard stick them on the bench?
I can assure you, if Cameron was a FA the Red Sox would not be saying, YAY depth let’s sign him for $7 million to be a bench platoon player.
sometime soon. . .i’m sure
An honest tweet from aandro:
“I’ve heard nothing new on Lee front. Nothing to confirm that I know of”.
Boston had a lot of guys in AAA ready to come up. They got by, i agree. But they didnt put a bunch of FAs on the bench in the winter, except Bill Hall.
Prob should have at least mentioned Thames as a possibility. Adventures in the outfield non-withstanding. Whatevs. And I don’t think the Russell Martin talks qualify as a Saga. Jeez. It’s Lee, Lee, Lee. Two questions being – will we have to trade for TWO decent pitchers if we don’t get him, even if Pettitte returns? We don’t trust the $82.5 million dollar man and we can’t count on Nova. And secondly – did Cashew nuts cost us several World Series by not giving up the store for Lee? Unless Montero becomes a 10-time All-Star, the non-deal prob cost us a WS last year, and possibly a couple more moving forward. Even if we get Lee, it’s a bit disgusting to have two $161M pitchers on one staff. But that’s Baseball baby!
# clownthrowindown December 11th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
If the Yankees gave Crawford 7/142, no one here would criticize it.
——————————————————————
no one here is criticizing it.
rather, they’re pointing out the bias and hypocrisy of the establishment, including the red sox.
I can assure you, if Cameron was a FA the Red Sox would not be saying, YAY depth let?s sign him for $7 million to be a bench platoon player
———————————————————————————–
No, the point is that Cashman should manage his finances better so that if NY signed Crawford they wouldn’t have to trade Swisher or Granderson. Cashman spends every dollar he has to sign huge free agent contracts and leaves himself too little to fill in the holes.
“If the Yankees gave Crawford 7/142, no one here would criticize it.”
—————
Plenty of people would.
Many people on here preemptively criticized the idea of going him that money.
I would be complaining about that contract for the next 7 years! And maybe even 7 years after that!!
“No, the point is that Cashman should manage his finances better so that if NY signed Crawford they wouldn’t have to trade Swisher or Granderson. Cashman spends every dollar he has to sign huge free agent contracts and leaves himself too little to fill in the holes.”
————————
The Yankee OF COMBINED will make less than Crawford next year.
It wouldn’t make sense to keep all those OFers. Especially when Granderson and Swisher are making some decent coin. They could probably keep them all but why would you?
Interesting post on RAB about Teixeira and his possibly imminent decline.
http://riveraveblues.com/2010/...../#comments
Cashman isn’t perfect, but there are 29 losing GM’s out there from last season.
What did they do right? Stupid arguments about Cashman.
He has a cost-controlled outfield that’s less than $20M/year.
Which comparable OF is as capable for that little salary structure?
He has an infield that’s solid, if unspectacular, with Gold Glovers at all positions.
Which other current infield has individuals that have won Gold Glovers at each position?
He signed the top lefty in the league: CC to a 7 year contract in his prime.
He re-signed the best closer in history for 2 more years.
He has a 23 year old kid who won 18 games in the rotation, who’s cost controlled for years.
Stop the Cashman complaining. We’re not ENTITLED to the best player at each postion on the roster. We play the game, sometime we lose, most often we win.
Be thankful we have an organization that’s capable of going after another mega-deal starting pitcher – though I don’t think he’s coming, which will make winning that much sweeter for ME.
Sheesh!
The Blue Jays have been connected to Zack Greinke basically all offseason, but they have no intention of trading Travis Snider and Kyle Drabek for him according to ESPN’s Buster Olney (via Twitter). Obviously, Toronto is not close to completing a deal for the Royals’ ace
watching the CC conference with the red sox on mlb network.
why does a sabermetric gm use the use the word “grind” so much?
there’s a dysfunctional disconnect there.
and what’s up with “work ethic”?
there’s a metric for that?
i think basically the corporate ,non feeling, “players can be replaced” red sox management is saying they want their players to work their ass off for management.
JoeMimic,
You would do it for depth as long as you could afford it. I don’t agree its something you plan to do but its great to be able to pick up a star and move a regular to play back up. Boston can afford it, NY never can even with a 200M+ payroll. There is too much invested in a handful of players (Texas will be worse if they get Lee).
As per Verducci’s article, if NY signs Lee, they will have $133M tied up in 2013 for Jeter, Arod, CC, Tex, AJ and Lee. Its hard to believe that they will be worth that much. And Cashman will have 90M or so to spend on the entire rest of the team. 90M is still significant, but it has to not only pay for the rest of the roster, it has to pay for guys who can compensate for the lack of value/production from any of the 6 big contracts. CC and Lee may still earn their pay, but I doubt the other 4 will.
BTW, last year ARod, Jeter, Tex, Granderson and Posada ALL underperformed.
All of them. Yet we almost won the AL.
Chances are that all of them improve to their career averages this season, which would be tremendous. Jeter surely will improve. ARod will be another year more recovered with that hip. Granderson can put together a full year of his new batting principles and tear up the basepaths, as will Gardner who may steal 50-60 bases as he gets more comfortable in the league. Posada will rake as the DH without the wear and tear of catching on a regular basis.
People tend to forget that Swisher was orginally a bench player.
Clown, there are teams that have budgets of $90M or less, and you say we couldn’t fill out a team roster with the exceptions you listed?
Are you serious, or just clowning?
“Interesting post on RAB about Teixeira and his possibly imminent decline.”
That post is dumb. JMO
Swisher is a starter on any team in the league, including the White Sox, where he came from.
Swisher was signed to be the Yankee 1B, with some time in RF – Abreu’s position, if memory serves me correctly.
He became a backup 1B, and full-time RF when Tex was signed.
The difference between the sox need for cameron at $7.5mm per year and the yankees lack of need for that $ player is the yankes have 3 outfielders who like to play baseball…….boston may have just acquired their first…..162 games from crawford, maybe 40 from ellsbury with the balance of time spent rehabbing away from the team, and maybe 110 from nancy drew. Lotta PT for the once good centerfielder who robbed theo for $15 mm and two years.
full-time RF after Nady got injured.
raymagnetic……Very seldom is there anything of interest over at River Ave Blues anymore and in it’s hayday there was little of interest there…..I went from Replacement level Yankee to The LoHud with about a 2-3 week layover at RAB……Texeria played with great heart last August and all of September with a deep hand bruise ( slight fracture ) and a broken toe…..Give me a break….Most of the bloggers there would take weeks of if they had a hang nail……
Carl, I forgot about Nady. Thanks.
Still, Swisher is a starter on most teams.
Nady is now the bench player.
I thought this might be of interest to randy
BobKlap: Interesting footnote to Jeter’s press conference last week. Cashman told him to “be honest” about his anger. “I told him I could handle it” about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck
Pat M,, if you were Joe G, and Tex got off to another slow start, how long would you stay with him batting 3rd? Or, would you swap Cano and Tex right out of the gate?
I really don’t understand that RAB post.
He basically just went through 1B until he found a couple that fit the story he was trying to sell.
Right now I’m thinking of getting Cano into the 2 slot…As for Texeria in the 3 hole, at least 80-100 ab’s…..Then I would flip him & Alex
Hey DeSaint, why don’t you lighten up a bit with shouting at people. It’s supposed to be a friendly place here.
why bat cano 2nd? i would start the season with cano up 3rd, signalling he is our best hitter.
if it shakes tex up to be “dropped” to the 5 hole, so be it, maybe that’s what he needs.
i remember years and years of cano struggling in the early season until he put his mind to putting an entire season together. i just hope that tex provides alex the protection he needs early on in the season.
Yankee Fans Held Hostage Day 28….the Lee wait continues…
Pat M,
I agree. I don’t pay much attention to the guys over there. I visit their blog on rare occasions.
I would also like to see more of Granderson in the 2 hole.
Mick, I think Cano’s improvemnent came with better plate disipline, I could see him having earned now that ability to bat higher in the order, but the lower half of our order is pretty inconsistent so I think he’s better served where he is right now.
Cano would lose a lot of early game rbi shots in the 2 hole.
If we don’t get Lee my hatred for the Mariners will grow even larger. It’s bad enough living in the pacific NW with all these fans who at the mention of being a Yankee fan immediately bring up 95.
gary-
no doubt Robbie’s laying off bad pitches was the key to his success.
hitting 3 instead of 5th still is the middle of the order.
http://www.google.com/hostedne.....82c19bceea
Okay, I’m not around much, not part of the discussions. I would believe that there has been discussion on what, if anything the Yankees would/could do in the event that Lee stays with the Rangers. Obviously there is a distinct possibility it could happen.
How much peril are we in? Maybe Andy would come back just to help out his team. If not, our rotation is pretty much CC, AJ, and Hughes, right? This could be a tough years for the Yanks. Just thinking out loud.
JoeMimic, similar situation here in SW Fla. Legions of Sox fans who are really gloating right now. Part of the Yanks winning formula was that they were able to keep some players away from the Sox and on the Yanks. They seem to have now lost at least part of that edge at least temporarly. Lee is critical, Lee pitching for the Yanks as opposed to against us is a big deal to success going forward.
yankee21 December 11th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
Pat M,, if you were Joe G, and Tex got off to another slow start, how long would you stay with him batting 3rd? Or, would you swap Cano and Tex right out of the gate?
**********
It’s almost like it’s expected and when the media does their job and asks him about it, they get the “back of the baseball card” speech.
Mick, point well taken, but I’m just not as confident in the bats at the bottom. Nick and Jorge will still chase the bad pitch once in awhile, and Jorge drives me nuts when he takes the first two pitches and then chases a bad pitch for the SO or DP. We need someone down there that hits for average and power and can keep the rally going.
Girardi will stay with Tex, or any player who slumps, forever.
That is why he should make the change upfront , before the slump.
Tex should like batting 5th, protecting Arod, as a switcher it’s the right spot for him.
gary-
we are talking about spots 6-9, right?
he loves swish up 2nd so that leaves you with posada, montero, gardner,grandy,thames?
jeter in the 6 hole could also happen.
No doubt Cano and Tex should switch in the order. Not having your most productive player in your top 4 is ridiculous. Unless you suggest last year was a fluke for Cano, which I don’t think any would.
If you had Cano play to his full potential, or Tex play to his full potential, who would you prefer in that 3-hole? I’d still say Cano, due to his higher BA.
Mick, Tex has the added aspect of saving lots of plays at first with defense. Your right he does probably have a longer string out there. Hmmm Tex gets better pitches with ARod behind him and he does get on base alot via the walk. So I think he makes ARod better in front of him as opposed to behind and boosts ARod RBI chances. If ARod bats ahead I think it hurts both him and Tex. To me Tex then Arod gives the best possible outcome.
Breaking News! There is still no change in the Lee decision.
That is all.
gary-
how did it work out last season for tex batting before arod? cano is clearly the better hitter and that is where you want your #3 guy to be. that developed as the year went on, now that he has established himself , he should be up 3rd.
Yogi there was this:
Texas Rangers manager Ron Washington has a gut feeling about Cliff Lee.
“That he’ll be here,” he said Saturday.
The Rangers and New York Yankees are waiting for a decision on which offer the 32-year-old left-hander will accept. They are the two known bidders for the $100 million-plus pitcher, although there may be others.
“I think everything that needs to be done has been done. … We just have to wait,” Washington said.
_______________________________________________________________________
Maybe as the manager he doesn’t know something, but maybe as the manager he does. I always trusted my gut and it was usually pretty good. Washington probably knows something about the guy and he of course is part of whatever was said at the meeting yesterday they had.
Mlbtraderumors to Lohud back to Mlbtraderumors back to Lohud !! UGHHHH
Mick, uncle
WCYF…..I think things would have to really get bad before Texeria is yanked out of the 3 hole…..100 at bats is what 30-35 games…….Even then I’d be reluctant to make that switch for the very well stated reasons stated by Gary
Hey Gary, please let me know where I’m shouting on my posts, relative to the use of caps and exclamation points on posts by others.
Please. And don’t abuse a good name, since we share one.
Giants going to beat Minn Sunday? Gosh I hope so, I’m tired of going there and losing.
I doubt Girardi will ever do this, but:
Gardner-LF
Granderson-CF
Cano-2B
A-Rod-3B
Teixeira-1B
Swisher-RF
Jeter-SS
Posada-DH
Montero-C
anyone else starting to feel Lee and his agent are both A holes??
pat-
knowing girardi and how he sticks with his guys, it would make it hard for him to switch tex if he is going bad. why set yourself up for the same mistake twice. this is why jeter will prob bat leadoff again, but another bad season and he should be dropped too.
wcyf
yes in 2012 but montero will hopefully be in the 5-6 spot.
Braunecker has done nothing wrong and neither has Lee. They are taking a few days to make a very important decision, I have no problem with it.
anyone else starting to feel Lee and his agent are both A holes??====
na. . im just getting a little impatient . . .thats all . lol
I agree mick, I was talking about 2011. I think it’s better not to put any undue pressure on Montero his first year; there will be enough.
Doc, no it’s a tough decision coming to a metro area, evaluating contracts that have to be complex, and leaving a team that went to the WS to a team that you just beat. Texas has a pretty solid pitching staff and dominant player and MVP in the outfield and they could be a good team for quite awhile. It’s a career decision that you’ll have to hold to for the rest of the time you play baseball.
Having said all that I think enough time has passed. Lets get it over so all can move on.
Why Jeter 7th?
true wcyf . i dont see girardi dropping jeter, counting last season as a fluke.
posada up 8th seems too low ….grandy has to be more consistent to bat 2nd.
jeter up 2nd with gardy running more would be the way to go.
DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
anyone else starting to feel Lee and his agent are both A holes??
———–
Agree!!
Lee and his agent must have set expectations prior to receiving offers. Guessing that both the Yankees and Rangers have exceeded those goals.
Just pick a team and let everyone move on. The window for both the Yankees and Rangers is closing for other potential “needed” moves.
Teixeira’s not good enough to bat 3rd, but he’s good enough to be used as Rodriguez’ protection in the batting order? Yeah!!!! That makes sense.
Giants going to beat Minn Sunday? Gosh I hope so, I’m tired of going there and losing.
*********************
Gary,
First they have to get to Minnesota.
As for Lee and Texas being a good team for a while, Lee’s salary might take up so much of the payroll that they won’t be able to keep some of those good players around him.
JackCurryYES
People who have spoken to Yankee officials said they have expressed a bit of skepticism about signing Lee.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
I doubt Girardi will ever do this, but:
Gardner-LF
Granderson-CF
Cano-2B
A-Rod-3B
Teixeira-1B
Swisher-RF
Jeter-SS
Posada-DH
Montero-C
———————————————————
You’ve got 3 lefties in a row at the top of the lineup. Not ideal.
I’ll agree with everyone, this has gone on way too long….
They aren’t running 3 left handed hitters into the 1-3 spots in the batting order.If Montero is in the batting order, he’ll be hitting in the 7-8 slot and as long as Posada is hitting, he’ll be 6 or 7.
JackCurryYES
People who have spoken to Yankee officials said they have expressed a bit of skepticism about signing Lee.
— UGHHHHH ( knots in stomach )
Tex up 5th is worth a try. If he starts the season off hot then it was worth it. You can always move him back.
Who do you think Jack Curry is referring to?
Fran, I saw the picks of them in the Kansas City airport. Thankful the game will be inside.
Yank 97 I wonder what the meaning of the word is is? A bit of skepticism could mean a whole lot different then alot of skepticism. Just wondering if the Yanks know something already based on some conversations that must be going back and forth. I do believe that Cash is in contact with Lee’s agent and not sitting back with the what happens happens attitude.
Washington hasn’t spoken to Lee, yet he has a gut feeling. Maybe its just gas.
The trouble with all this is that there is so much speculation, just as the Lee crew wants.
I read that they were busy crunching numbers for the tax issue. If that is the case then Lee not only wants the most money, he is going for every dime he can get.
I think this last bit is to see if there is any further sweetening put into the offers from either side. That and to push it to match the usual news cycle so it can be talked about all week next week as well.
Against lefties you switch Swisher and Grandy.
Curry is pretty good. Not exactly encouraging:
Cliff Lee Rumors: Saturday
By Mike Axisa [December 11 at 6:35pm CST]
There was not much movement on the Cliff Lee front yesterday, but the free agent lefty could agree to a contract at any moment. Here are today’s batch of rumors, with the latest news featured at the top throughout the day…
Jack Curry of the YES Network hears from people that have spoken to Yankee officials that they have expressed “a bit of skepticism” about signing Lee (Twitter link).
SI.com’s Jon Heyman reports that the Rangers originally offered five years and $100MM, but they added a sixth guaranteed year and what is believed to be “some form of option that could turn the new deal into a seven-year contract” when they last visited Lee in Arkansas.
Curry isn’t a rumor mongo like Heyman, Rosenthal, etc. so I tend to put more credence in his tweets than others.
West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Against lefties you switch Swisher and Grandy.
———————————————————————–
What about after the starter is out of the game?
Jack Curry tweet is worrisome. . . .
Sounds like Lee is trying to get Teas” offer up to par with the Yankees.
Question is : Is this the end game?
And: Will he then go to the Yanks and have them beat it?
If he uses this strategy, he should become a Yankee.
What about after the starter is out of the game?
===========================
which is why he loves swisher up 2nd.
Well let me see. For sure bets in the rotation I’d say we are set with a number one starter and a number five starter. That would be CC and Hughes.
Hmmm. This could be a long season!
http://yourdailynewspaper.blog.....hotos.html
I don’t know kids. The entire family looks a little slow on the draw to me, starting with Ichabod Lee himself. Too bad we find ourselves in a bit of a pitching bind…
The words “a bit of skepticism” aren’t particularly revealing.
If Gardner and Grandy are going to prosper – they need to get good at bats against lefties. Cano can hit anyone. That’s too by the book for me.
Gary,
I read that the Giants weren’t going to try and get to Minnseota until tomorrow AM. Wonder if they’ll make it in time or the game will be postponed.
******************
I read the other day that Yankee officials were not as confident about Lee coming here. I am really starting to feel that maybe the Yankees should save all of that money and trade for a good young pitcher like Greinke. Let Texas get saddled with that 7 year contract.
Maybe they’re just skeptical about the amount of years … not the general signing .
All things being equal and assuming Andy comes back and Montero stays, I wonder if the Lee money could be used to make us a better team.
Well while you cowboys sit and wait it out I think I’ll start me some thinkin’ on what the next step might be if Lee chooses Texas.
I know my fallback position will be to point out how he got clobbered in the WS!
It could be a loooooooong season.
So I’m thinking that Andy is coming back, Lee or no Lee. Wishful thinking, perhaps. But nonetheless thinking. Sitting idly by has never appealed to me. I need to get creative.
If both the Yankees and Rangers are at 7 years and the AAV is close enough….well.
Fran, I’m with you. Did I mention that Lee got clobbered in the World Series?
Did I mention that Lee got clobbered in the World Series?
****************************
Hi Trisha,
That made the WS worth watching
Fran, I also like the “young” part of the equation. Teams with $$$$ do scary things in the name of landing players they want. Wonder what that Lee arm is going to be looking like in 7 years…
West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
If Gardner and Grandy are going to prosper – they need to get good at bats against lefties. Cano can hit anyone. That’s too by the book for me.
—————————————————————————————-
It’s nice to have opposing managers burn through their bullpens to match-up against an alternating rh/lh line-up.
You know. Like Girardi does.
Fran, yep staying the night and flying in tomm for a 1PM game while the Vikings don’t have to do any of that Cr#p. I can see it now, Tom do you think that the travel issues effected the way the Giants played?
“Maybe they’re just skeptical about the amount of years … not the general signing .”
It could be anything.
I subscribe to the view that that the people who talk don’t know and the people who know aren’t talking.
If both the Yankees and Rangers are at 7 years and the AAV is close enough….well.
====================================
No way of knowing the guy’s mind until he makes the decision. Something tells me he knows where he wants to go and is using both teams to drive his price up. Perfect startegy and he has all the time he needs.
Unless he gets a deadline.
“That made the WS worth watching”
Oh yeah!
Wonder what that Lee arm is going to be looking like in 7 years…
========================
Does it matter if we win a bunch of WS before then?
“If both the Yankees and Rangers are at 7 years and the AAV is close enough?.well.”
Where was it reported the Rangers went to 7 years?
Trish, I think it’s a border line train wreck if no Lee. Like many have said it’s sad that a team like the Yanks gets themselves in this situation.
BJK – true. I don’t have a problem with Swisher batting second. The reason Girardi hit Granderson second against righties sometimes is that Jeter was leading off and Tex was hitting third. I wouldn’t do that again. Cano should hit third, he’s our best hitter and will get more at bats. That’s my thinking.
“Does it matter if we win a bunch of WS before then?”
Yeah because I have great confidence after watching the dress rehearsal! Hmmm.
Just my opinion – I would do Greinke over Lee. Go Greinke, get Pettitte back, and resign Wood while adding a lefty specialist. Farm takes a hit – but it is not that big of a hit. And I hate to say this – I love the prospects and would love a home grown team – but hanging on to the prospects just because you like that idea can lead you down the road of the Angels and the Dodgers – becoming too cute in holding on to prospect talent for too long when a sure thing is staring you right in the face.
Based on the MLBTR post Pat. I said “if”.
I think it’s a border line train wreck if no Lee.
=============================
In reality, it’s the same team as last year when we won 95 games.
AJ can’t be as bad. Phil could get better.
We use the Lee money to get more versatile.
C’mon chicken little.
first Lee isn’t coming post of the day…..
If he wants to stay in Texas it doesn’t matter how much money the Yanks offer he isn’t coming here. The Yankees offer is probably about $30m more than the Rangers offer and they still can’t get an answer. I really hope that Cashman has a plan B because I think Lee is just using them and I would be very surprised if he came here. It sounds like the Rangers did a good job meeting with him 3 times and whining and dining he and especially his wife. Maybe Cashman should of went there more than 1 time.
Being negative rocks!
Stoneburner, we never beat Lee, he owns us. Greinke isn’t going to beat him either. If the strategy is that we don’t have to get past Lee to get back to the WS then so be it. But I see Texas in the mix for quite awhile and having Lee there just makes them stronger. I’d really like have him on our team.
If Lee’s wife makes the final decision then maybe we are better off without him. Hmmmm….
“Trish, I think it’s a border line train wreck if no Lee. Like many have said it’s sad that a team like the Yanks gets themselves in this situation.”
Gary, I’m with you. That old bunch of “circumstances beyond our control” unfortunately has had a dominoes effect. Being forced to bring Hughes and Kennedy up well before they were ready took a toll on the Yankee rotation and in turn down below. It was nobody’s fault but I think that set the Yanks back a few years in their development. And we’re still collecting the residuals.
Seriously, it could be very ugly. We’ll have to suck it up. I want to think AJ can turn into some kind of consistent hero. But I can’t totally bank on it. This could be one of those kick-in-the-stomach years. I don’t that the Sux have Gonzalez and Crawford. I worry that at this point in time at least they have 5 bodies they can throw out there as a rotation and two of them are pretty solid. We don’t even have that. Unless there is something I’m misremembering.
Yeah, why should anyone listen to the views of an equal partner?
I would do Greinke over Lee.
****************
I am feeling that way too. And part of the reason to have all of those prospects is that they can be used for trades.
“Unless he gets a deadline.”
And neither team will give him a deadline… they’ve come this far, they are not going to self-sabotage themselves by forcing him to make a decision by a certain time. He knows this… so he is taking his sweet time.
And even now, you are getting these reports through Heyman, Curry, etc. about the state of Lee’s mindset. I would take that as a sign that negotiations are still in play and it’s not yet “final decision” time. At least not yet. If we don’t up our offer, it might be.
“If Lee’s wife makes the final decision then maybe we are better off without him. Hmmmm….”
That too.
Fran,
The Giants are stuck in KC.
—————————————————————————–
Maybe it would be a good idea to discuss what the Yankees can do without Lee and Greinke. Like where do you go from here.
UnREAL … NY Daily News is reporting the Sox offered Lee 7 years .. It could be a reason for the delay . .I HATE that team
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....eted_.html
We should do a Guess the Lee Contract (GTLC) version of GTLU:
When is his decision announced?
Which team?
How many years?
How many dollars?
Does he say, “I always wanted to be a ____?”
Gary,
Just think long term – Greinke is a better fit – just my opinion – younger, velo is nice, good command (not Lee’s exceptional command though) – w/ Lee you get another two really on the point years – after that – not sure – Greinke would just be coming into his prime.
As far as beating Texas in the playoffs – it is on our offense to beat the Tommy Hunters and Colby Lewis’s of the world – THAT IS WHY WE LOST TO TEXAS.
The RS offer is old news.
I wish all husband’s were as stern as Damon (or rather, all wives as understanding as Ms. Damon)
Reporter:What do you say about the reports that your wife doesn’t want to live in Detroit?
Damon: She goes where I go
My two cents. I believe that Lee will sign with the Yankees. I was thinking about the whole situation and I came to this conclusion. If he wanted to sign with the Rangers he would have done it already. He wouldnt wait all this time. Especialy after he received the last offer from the Yankees. The reason why he is waiting is because he has some reservations about playing in New York. He wants to make sure he is doing the right thing. If I was you I would stop worrying. The longer he waits the better the chance of coming to New York.
The NFL said if the Giants don’t get t Minny by 9 AM CST, the game will move to 4:15 on FOX. If they get there by 9, it stays at 1 PM.
“Maybe it would be a good idea to discuss what the Yankees can do without Lee and Greinke. Like where do you go from here.”
That’s where I’m at SAS. I think it’s good to be ready for all eventualities. Start thinking about the what ifs.
If we don’t up our offer, it might be.
=======================
If it were that easy ,we could declare ourselves the winners, as they can’t beat our offer.
They go 7, we go 8. Right now he is prob squeezing the last bit of juice out of their orange.
If he comes back to us, he is ours.
NYY will not get outbid for Lee. And I just can’t fathom TEX coming close to a NYY offer.
Therefore, the only way Lee goes to TEX is he leaves a substantial amount of money on the table.
NYY has done what they could, ultimately it is up to Lee and if he chooses TEX so be it.
All that said, I still think he is coming to NYY.
Why would anyone want a wife that that does whatever they say?
The Yankees would have some amount of money to spend plus trade chips. If Andy retires, they have even more.
What pitchers might be available. One Yankee rookie is enough at one time. I don’t see Joba able to fill the shoes of a starter.
SAS,
Minnesota is snowed in under 2 feet of snow. Glad it’s not here.
Hope you had a great birthday. I was going to email you but my Blackberry broke and I can’t get to your email address. Send it to me again when you get a chance. Thanks.
The funniest part about this Lee saga is this fan created notion that Lee’s wife is the reason pulling him to Texas.
There is literally no evidence for this, yet tons of fans are running with that stupid assumption and directing vitriol at her for it.
I could just say right now, Lee’s wife is pulling him to New York but Lee is the one pushing for Texas.
Or I could say they both want to stay in Texas. Or I could say they both want New York.
And my statements would be just as accurate as the nonsense spewed about Lee’s wife.
# Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Yeah, why should anyone listen to the views of an equal partner?
————————————
and that is what this is all about…trying to get Tex closer to the Yankee offer so they can say no to the Yankees
“and that is what this is all about…trying to get Tex closer to the Yankee offer so they can say no to the Yankees”
Next time you speak to Lee, say hello.
Trisha,
Glad you agree. There have to be pitchers out there who can be 3 or 4 starters, but who?
If Lee don’t end up in NY, they’ll offer Pettitte a one year worth about $13 mil and use Nova in the #5 slot until he proves that he can’t handle it. It’s him or bringing in a journeyman starter like Jeff Francis or Freddy Garcia, until Mitchell/Noesi or Phelps is ready.
the game will move to 4:15 on FOX.
***********************
Thanks for that. On opposite the Jets. That never happens here, but I guess they have no choice.
So it appears that Heyman was correct in reporting that there was another team with a seven year offer.
Christina, while you very well may be right, you very well may be wrong. I’m all for dropping back five and punting as long as you have a football to punt. A rotation of one or two never does much for a team hoping to win a world series. I think of it as prudent to at least consider the possibilities of life without Lee. And since I have a reputation of someone who doesn’t even worry when I should be worrying – right gang? – I tend to listen to my inner voice when something is nagging at me.
I think it makes sense to consider the possibility of Lee staying in Texas. Just think of it as a fun little exercise. What do the Yanks do if Lee says no.
In my world, Andy comes back for another year.
Anyone else?
The NFL said if the Giants don’t get t Minny by 9 AM CST, the game will move to 4:15 on FOX. If they get there by 9, it stays at 1 PM.
_________________________________________________________________________
Figures, they should move the game to 4:15 now. A whole 4 hours to get from the airport, get situated. Thanks NFL
“If Lee don?t end up in NY, they?ll offer Pettitte a one year worth about $13 mil and use Nova in the #5 slot until he proves that he can?t handle it.”
Toss in re-signing Wood and another 1 or 2 good relievers and it’s a deal!
LGY December 11th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
The funniest part about this Lee saga is this fan created notion that Lee’s wife is the reason pulling him to Texas.
There is literally no evidence for this, yet tons of fans are running with that stupid assumption and directing vitriol at her for it.
I could just say right now, Lee’s wife is pulling him to New York but Lee is the one pushing for Texas.
Or I could say they both want to stay in Texas. Or I could say they both want New York.
And my statements would be just as accurate as the nonsense spewed about Lee’s wife.
________
It’s the “Yoko Ono” narrative. What else is new?
No, Heyman just fell for the bs, as always:
From the NY Daily News article:
“But the Red Sox’s bid, which they made on Tuesday, was a purposely-low proposal designed mostly to keep the Yankees occupied”
It wasn’t a real offer despite it’s length.
I think or hope at least, that Cliff Lee is holding back for PR reasons as he made up his mind Wednesday….He’s coming to The Bronx, however the delay in announcing this is so he can express to the Texas folk what a difficult decision it was and how he wavered back and forth and it was the most difficult decision of his professional life , Blah Blah Blah….How get me my locker next to CC and when do pitchers and catchers report ????/ Next
Texas management encouraged – Yankee management skeptical. Oh boy.
It’s anyone’s guess what the Yankees will do if Lee makes a mistake.
I doubt that will be conservative.
No, Heyman just fell for the bs, as always:
From the NY Daily News article:
“But the Red Sox’s bid, which they made on Tuesday, was a purposely-low proposal designed mostly to keep the Yankees occupied”
It wasn’t a real offer despite it’s length.
—————-
+ Heyman said there were TWO 7 year offers, before the Yanks first 7 year offer.
Rich you don’t make an offer and pull it and they would never tell the terms. It was a legitimate seven year offer made Tuesday when Heyman reported it. Be fair. You can bash someone if it’s warranted.
SAS, happy birthday, whenever it was. I am also a December baby.
So GB just answered our question. And you know, nothing says we can’t catch lightning in a bottle with whomever we would pull in. Remember Aaron Small?
“+ Heyman said there were TWO 7 year offers, before the Yanks first 7 year offer.”
If so, then there was really only one.
In my humble opinion this guy Lost is not an insider. I think he is a poster who is guessing like we do here. I remember reading his posts on the day that Crawford signed and he said something along the line like Crawford’s situation with the Yankees looks good and he was so excited about the meeting like he was at the meeting. Yesterday he claimed that when the Yankees heard his price they decided that they cant sign him. If he was an insider he wouldnt tell us that the meeting was good.
LGY – we don’t know that there isn’t another offer do we?
GB…….Does the Lee saga remind you of The Catfish Hunter suspense from 35 years ago ???/
“Rich you don’t make an offer and pull it and they would never tell the terms. It was a legitimate seven year offer made Tuesday when Heyman reported it. Be fair. You can bash someone if it’s warranted.”
I’m not bashing anyone. I’m merely pointing out what the NYDN reported. IOW, it wasn’t a real offer because it was “purposely-low.”
Trisha,
If Lee doesn’t come here, I would love to get King Felix. Offer Seattle their choice of any players except Robbie. Since that probably won’t happen, Grienke and strengthen the bullpen. Love to have Kerry Wood back.
I thought Pettitte said that he still has groin issues. I wouldn’t think twice about Andy returning otherwise.
We sit here on a Saturday night….most of us annoyed with a pitcher who shall remain nameless…and wonder what we do if push comes to shove.
Pat, your idea works well if Andy says yes. I am playing devil’s advocate here.
LGY – personally I don’t care who is making the decision. Just pony up with an answer. It can’t be that tough. (Lee, not you.)
I will tell you one thing that I would bet any amount of money on. Heyman does not make things up out of whole cloth. I don’t believe any of the mainstream sports media does that. They report what they hear or are told. May I remind you that Heyman’s exact words in his tweet were ” “there is a rumor”. If he identifies it as a rumor what possibly could be the problem.
I heard the Angels were pulling out once it went to 7 years…..
All the talk of Greinke is inane.
First of all, they cannot give up Montero for him, which is who they would want.
2nd, he is not cut out for NY, forget him.
OK lol. I retreat you all win. Heyman is dirt. Thank you! : )
“The Catfish Hunter suspense from 35 years ago ???/”
New Years Eve, but it doesn’t remind me of that because then the biggest task was to establish that the Yankees can be good again. Now, it’s partly do you want to be in the WS every single year.
Rich, I think the Yanks front office will go nuts if they don’t get Lee. Cashman looked like cr#p after last offseason deals for Nick and Javy based on absymal performances. Yanks spent all their time focused on Lee while Boston got stronger and then they don’t get Lee. Worst yet Lee is still in Texas with the rest of a pretty good ballteam. Now it’s a panic drill to salvage something out of this offseason.
I agree it could not be conservative, all reasonable offers will be considered.
Not that I wish it – but it will be very interesting to see what happens if we don’t get Lee. What Cashman does. I have to believe he has options ready to pursue.
“All the talk of Greinke is inane.
First of all, they cannot give up Montero for him, which is who they would want.
2nd, he is not cut out for NY, forget him.”
Who?
pat, that’s about the way to go. I can’t see bringing in a pitcher like Greinke and giving up a bat like Montero, 2 arms like Banuelos, Brackman/Betances, plus bats like Nunez and Laird for a pitcher that admits that he’s not sure he can pitch in pinstripes and will not likely resign with NY in 2 years. I’d prefer to give the kids a shot.
SAS, groin issues not a good thing.
Okay, so we might be forced to go without Andy. CC, AJ, Hughes, ________, Nova. Hey we’ve had to deal with worse in terms of rotation issues. Really we have.
Well I think I will go with something over which I have control – what to get at the Taco Bell drive-thru.
Later y’all.
Gary, good post. Throw in waiting on Pettitte as well.
“May I remind you that Heyman’s exact words in his tweet were ” “there is a rumor”. If he identifies it as a rumor what possibly could be the problem.”
————————-
even tho cliff lee has two 7 yr offers, #yanks could steal lee with todays monster 6 year offer. expected to be $140-150 mil Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:09:05 AM via web
even though lee has two 7-year offers, he still could consider a strong 6-year bid, depending on total $ and franchise 6:34 PM Dec 7th via web
My Plan B is Pavano for a year and sign Soriano.
Trisha,
I have a gut feeling that Lee is going to sign with the Yankees. Take it for what is worth. Most of the time I’m right. Weeks before Tex signed with the Yankees I had a feeling he was going to end up with New York. Lee wants to make sure he is not going to regret his decision.
wcyf
his 1st priority would be to sign Andy. At a higher price no doubt.
at that point he is no worse than last year.
fix up the pen, same as last year.
95 wins and at worst a wildcard, if the rs revive their starters and pen.
Christina, cool if you’re right.
I still like making decision trees. Always plan for a rainy day.
No one thinks Heyman is dirt.
He is just the middle man for teams and agents when they want to put something out there, so drinking up everything he says as truth is just dumb. And when he tries to give his opinion on baseball most of the time it is dumb as well.
Heyman is good for info as you as you maintain a level of scrutiny and examine what the motives could be behind the info he is sharing.
“My Plan B is Pavano for a year and sign Soriano.”
I would definitely go there.
But I would make Wood a big priority. What’s not to like?
West coast fan,
I think Cashman is going to trade for Greinke even if he lands Lee.
Later y’all. Chef Taco awaits.
Pavano?
That’s funny, Pavano.
Christina,
I hope you and your intuition are right, but if I am Cashman I have to be seriously working on a plan B. The Yankees are taken advantage of often enough.
LGY – previous tweet. Why leave that out.
Pat M. December 11th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
GB…….Does the Lee saga remind you of The Catfish Hunter suspense from 35 years ago ???/
———————————————————————————————————————-
Quite a lot, Pat. He as going everywhere except back to Oakland. Everyone was a sure bet and nobody knew much about GMS spending frenzies on the horizon. George signed him on New Year’s Eve of ’1974. As GMS said: ” Catfish taught us how to win.”
Soriano, surely you jest.
Well Christina – whatever the situation I have to believe Cashman has a plan.
PR spin to make the people of Texas feel good about his tough decision……He’ll be in pinstripes, it makes too much sense as a career move……..You’ll hear something along those words when his statement is read…….
“LGY – previous tweet. Why leave that out.”
—————–
What?
Pavano is an above average pitcher who can put the NY demons to rest, if he has the stomach for it.
Gary December 11th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
The NFL said if the Giants don’t get t Minny by 9 AM CST, the game will move to 4:15 on FOX. If they get there by 9, it stays at 1 PM.
_________________________________________________________________________
Figures, they should move the game to 4:15 now. A whole 4 hours to get from the airport, get situated. Thanks NFL
__________________________________
Worse, only three hours. Game would be at noon CST, 1 pm EST.
How could anyone trust Pavano?
GB….Yikes BG, that was 36 year ago….I was in back at College when that all came down as my baseball days were in the past…..Wow, getting old my friend
Heyman made the point today that Twitter is not the same as reporting news. Anything anyone puts on Twitter should be taken with a grain of salt until its verified on a news site.
These guys just pass along what they hear. Its entertaining to keep up and speculate.
If unsubstantiated stuff gets you tied up in knots, then just don’t follow it.
“Soriano, surely you jest.”
Is there a better reliever out there? No, and stop calling me surely.
The bridge to Mariano is suspect, and he provides insurance in case Mo gets hurt.
LGY – never mind you win ok? Heyman stinks. Thanks.
Exactly clown. Thank you.
Soriano is not taking setup money, he will sign as a closer.
The reason why the Rangers are talking to the media about their gut feelings and how positive they feel is because they know deep inside that he is going to the Yankees. If they felt good about their chances they wouldnt say a word about it.
Pat M.
I hope you are right. Of course it is a better career move to come to NY, but if he isn’t convinced there is nothing we can do. To him quality of life, his idea of that, is more important than we think. I, of course, think quality of life is better here spring thru fall.
Pat M,
That’s my initial thought (hope) as well. I said something to the same degree this morning. Both of these teams are all in on Lee, he’s not going to make a quick decision on it and disrespect the team he rejects. I could be wrong but I’m guessing he already knows what he’s going to do….just deliberating a bit out of respect for how hard each team has pursued him.
pat m, couldn’t agree more. lee surelyhas to think about more than just proximity to home. he’ll get the most money from the yankees and the best chance to win.
plus, if he’s at all thinking about the hall of fame, he really needs wins. in the next seven years, texas will finish last a few times if they pay one guy 25 to 30% of their payroll.
get fitted for pinstripes and commute with cc
To him quality of life, his idea of that, is more important than we think.
=============================
I hope he discusses the quality of life with CC.
“Soriano is not taking setup money, he will sign as a closer.”
I would pay him as a closer.
SAS,
Just have trust on your GM. He knows what he is doing. He is not stupid.
Consider the risk Lee would have to take on in signing with TEX to satisfy the alleged life-style situation and comfort level that is the narrative now.
First, for argument purposes, let’s say TEX backloads the contract so to speak that would net out to 20 million the first year, and escalates up. Till he winds up with let’s say a 23.5 AAV deal over 6 years. By all indications that is 1 year short and would be 20- 25 mil shy of NYY alleged offer of 160-168m.
Does the right fit and comfort count more to Lee than an extra $20-25mil?
Now, TEX payroll not only jumps from under 70m in 2010 to a salary structure north of 100 million due to Lee signing and all the other payroll increases they will have. This added financial commitment gets layered on top of the deal that already saw the group led by Ryan and Greenberg pay some 10-20% more for the team than they anticipated.
If it is a 100 million payroll, TEX also no longer gets as much, if any luxury tax money. Adiitionally it sets a precedent for superstars like Josh Hamilton to command similar compensation when his time is up, or stars like Nelson Cruz saying you can pay a guy who plays once every 5 days north of 20 million,, where’s my money?? So TEX will have created an expectation in which they will no longer be viewed as a little train that could, but a big boy, that needs to pony up if it wants to retain talent.
Now back to the risk Lee takes,, does he really want to sign on with a team in that financial situation? Is he really that enamored with being so close to ARK and being one of the guys on the rangers and playing with the lifelong friends he made over the last 3 months….
Is all that risk worth it for LEE and his family?
I say no it isn’t, and that is why LEE will make a show of it when he announces but he will sign with NYY.
Blake,
I don’t think he is sophisticated enough to do that.
The ’74 Yankees were moving up fast and the trades they made had to scare teams. They finished 2nd in ’74. Had Stottlemyre been healthy all season instead of blowing out his arm in June, they may have finished 1st in the East. When he went down it was Medch and Dobson and hope for a flood. That rotation looked much like this one does now. 2 starters and 3 question marks.
I would pay him as a closer.
================
I know you would but what about your owner?
“LGY – never mind you win ok? Heyman stinks. Thanks.”
——
So you’ll stop posting the exact same thing about Heyman being right everytime someone mentions the Red Sox 7 year offer?
If so, sounds great.
If Lee turns down a better offer by the Yankees and the chance to be a legend on the biggest stage in the sport then maybe he wasn’t what we thought he was anyway…..
He has to consider the possibility that his contract would ruin the Rangers for years the same way Arod’s contract did….maybe it wouldn’t but its certainly a possibility. Are they going to pull out all the stops to re-sign or replace Hamilton, Cruz, Wilson, etc when their pay days come due?
“I know you would but what about your owner?”
Like everyone else here, I know nothing and just offer opinions.
“I don’t think he is sophisticated enough to do that.”
why’s that?
Lee is probably more sophisticated that most, if not all, of us.
but what about his wife Rich?
Like everyone else here, I know nothing and just offer opinions.
==========================================
So you are saying your opinion means nothing?
GB
That works for me.
Unlike the majority of the fanbase I never bought into George’s instant gratification mindset.
Yankee21,
the Rangers will be better off if they lose this bidding war to the Yankees.
For whoever asked earlier about a 7th year from Texas, here’s the link. Its an option year.
Jon Heyman reported earlier today that Texas’ latest offer to Lee included a team option for a seventh season, meaning six guaranteed years have been offered to Lee. Lee told Rangers teammates last weekend that a guaranteed sixth year would bring him back to Texas.
http://dallas.sbnation.com/tex.....-cliff-lee
“but what about his wife Rich?”
The woman is a saint!
“So you are saying your opinion means nothing?”
None of our opinions mean anything. At least I recognize that.
Christina,
I trust Cashman, but I can’t stand talking about “his majesty” anymore, and since there is a real possibility that the Yankees will have to do something else, I thought I could change the subject a bit…lol
None of our opinions mean anything. At least I recognize that.
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Tell that to a few ex-ballplayers and GB and see what they think…
“Unlike the majority of the fanbase I never bought into George’s instant gratification mindset.”
There wasn’t one mindset.
When he first bought the team, he realized that he needed to change a losing culture, and reassert the primacy of the Yankees after the Mets success in ’69 and ’73.
As a result, his impetuousness was the right fit, and Gabe Paul did a great job implementing it.
After he had some initial success, however, the crazed George took over and he lost perspective.
“Tell that to a few ex-ballplayers and GB and see what they think…”
They can read and can think what they want.
pat, not only would I re-sign Kerry Wood, I’d sign both Jon Rauch and Feliciano. Chamberlain’s an issue. If he’s not conditioned to pitch, he’d get conditioned in Scranton or Trenton and I’d bring in Brackman and let him scare batters.
clown,
Then how come he didnt accept the offer yet?
btw, The point isn’t that some people don’t have valuable contributions to make here, but we all know the Yankees do what they want irrespective of our opinions. Business comes first , second, third, etc.
btw, The point isn’t that some people don’t have valuable contributions to make here, but we all know the Yankees do what they want irrespective of our opinions. Business comes first , second, third, etc.
the crazed George took over
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the 2 Georges…the impetuous George, the crazed George, the George you love Jerry…
I guess overall I the number one thing that I hate is how it comes across that we have to beg this dude to become a Yankee. The greatest honor of all sports to put on the pinstripes and we have to beg this guy. Its a slap in the face to Yankee fans and I am getting sick of Lee acting in this manner.
I’m sorry but Washington talking to the press about his gut feeling is stupid. He would like like a fool when Lee signs with New York.
OK now I’m officially worried that Lee is going to the Rangers! If the deal from the Yanks was so good there would be no reason to mull it over. His mind was made up on where he wanted to go and for what money weeks ago. I think we lost out!
I don’t think NYY is coming across as begging. They have targeted a certain talent and pulled out all the stops to bring him on. If he/she declines, that’s business. It isn’t begging.
Then it was
the chamberlain issue will likely come to a head this year.
the last few years he’s been living on potential and one good season
he’s arbitration eligible and not really cheap anymore
if he wants to be a yankee, this is the year for him to make it happen. he’s got serious talent. he needs to show up in shape and take his craft seriously.
no more chances, produce or find yourself in AAA
GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
pat, not only would I re-sign Kerry Wood, I’d sign both Jon Rauch and Feliciano. Chamberlain’s an issue. If he’s not conditioned to pitch, he’d get conditioned in Scranton or Trenton and I’d bring in Brackman and let him scare batters.
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Brackman and Rauch are almost Randy Johnson – like in height. By the time they finish their pitches, the batters can can almost touch their pitching hands. Much the same with Mark Hendrickson.
Plan B please. Plan A looks more remote by the hour. Call KC.
I heard somewhere, I think it was Yankee Hot Stove, that Mark Buehrle is available – if so I think he would be a great plan B – last time I looked he had one more ring than Lee
Rauch could or should especially effective against the Boston right handed hitters with that delivery. Almost Jeff Nelsonish.
If Lee stays in Texas, NY should take the long view — bank the money, cultivate young guys like Nova, and build for the future. This would not mean the end of the 2011 season, folks. It would only mean the going would be tougher in the short term. Seven years is probably way over payment, but if it brings NY a WS, then it will be worth it. If NY needs to solder on without Lee, save the money for Grant (or whoever) as new talent comes on the market in the next season or two. As for Greinke. Hasn’t he stated explicitly that he will not accept a deal to NY? Forget about him, then.
No Lee would not only mean Pettite would see a large upgrade to a potential one-year contract, it would also probably mean Kerry Wood gets re-signed, perhaps near the pay level he was due in the club option which was declined.
I still can’t see Lee leaving that much $$ on the table.
I can see him giving Texas a chance to match the Yanks one last time, with no chance for the Yanks to counter.
hello guys any new news on Mr. Lee?