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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Notes and links on a slow day

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 11, 2010 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees made their first offer to Cliff Lee on Wednesday. The Rangers flew to Arkansas to make their offer on Thursday. When I checked with Brian Cashman on Friday night, he literally told me to “enjoy the night.” There would be no news to report.

It’s the same story today. Lee has been meticulous in this process, making what is surely the biggest decision of his career.

Everyone else is left waiting. Many of them waiting anxiously.

At the end of another one of those slow days of waiting, here are a few notes and links from around baseball.

• You might want to look away, but my friend Ben Shpigel did a nice job looking back at the last time the Yankees targeted a premier starting pitcher with incredible control and missed out.

• Great stuff from the Boston Herald outlining the way the Carl Crawford deal came together for Boston.

• Speaking of Crawford, Thomas Boswell makes the case that Crawford’s talent is wasted in Fenway Park.

• Plucked from the Yankees, Rule 5 pick Lance Pendleton will have a chance to win a rotation spot with the Astros.

The Tigers are planning to move Phil Coke back into the rotation. He was a starter through most of his minor league career, but things never really took off for him until he moved to the bullpen.

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408 Responses to “Notes and links on a slow day”

  1. UnKnown December 11th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    Cam Newton: “My Parent do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed.”

    Probably don’t want to be going there on your Heisman speech.

  2. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    Chad, will you and the boys be doing any live hook-ups with some of the top minor leaguers in the system this winter? You should be able to get some good stuff from fellow Missourian, David phelps. guys like Brackman and Betances would be great, too.

  3. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    I’d like to see Pendleton make a go of it in Houston. He was a decent looking pitcher.

  4. pat December 11th, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    Swish looks good in a monkey suit.

    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20448999,00.html

  5. theREALkevin December 11th, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    trying to compare the maddux situation with lee is ridiculous. the Yankees sucked back then and there weren’t really any signs things would get better. they’re at the top now. completely different times, completely different circumstances, completely different level of talent on the roster. complete and utter joke to even attempt to find a single parallel between those two free agent scenarios.

  6. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    I agree with kevin.

  7. Captain Clutch December 11th, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    Ledger_Yankees On the Cliff Lee front, Brian Cashman confirms what many of you have gathered via The Twitter today: “Nothing has happened as of yet.”
    17 minutes ago via TweetDeck

    Ledger_Yankees “Don’t know what it means,” Yankees GM Brian Cashman, on the time Cliff Lee has taken so far to make a decision.

    Ledger_Yankees Cash says he hasn’t swooped in to Little Rock on any recruiting trips since the last visit. But he said he’d go again “if necessary.”

  8. Fran the original December 11th, 2010 at 9:07 pm

    Pat, thanks for posting that link. Nice picture of the newlyweds.

  9. 38HotDogs December 11th, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    I heard somewhere, I think it was Yankee Hot Stove, that Mark Buehrle might be available – if so I think he would be a great plan B – last time I looked he had one more ring than Lee

  10. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Clay Bellinger has more rings than Lee. Just sayin’.

  11. ac1 December 11th, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    maybe Lee is taking this time so he can find a home and good schools in new jersey.

  12. pat December 11th, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Fran

    I’d like to think more than Alex and Johnny were invited and attended.

  13. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    Maybe Jeter was invited but, he didn’t have gas money to get to Palm Beach.

  14. austinmac December 11th, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    When a team makes the best offer and is left waiting for a reply, that is not good news. I would be surprised if Lee comes. Cashman said the off-season goal is pitching, pitching and pitching. Lee has held them from moving on. It is time to aggressively move to other options.

  15. ac1 December 11th, 2010 at 9:16 pm

    and one or two extra lefties in the pen too..

  16. Fran the original December 11th, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    Pat,

    CC said he was invited but they could not get a baby sitter so they didn’t go. I really think that the Sabathia’s were house hunting for the Lees ;)

    I would think that others were invited and probably attended as well. Guess we’ll have to wait for more pictures.

  17. alvarofer December 11th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Maddux never wanted to pitch in the AL, least in the AL East. He always went to teams that favored pitchers. That is why in my book, Mike Mussina is much better. All his career was spent in the AL East.

  18. Fran the original December 11th, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Maybe Jeter was invited but, he didn’t have gas money to get to Palm Beach.
    ********************
    GB,

    I did read that Derek was invited but was not attending. Nobody said why he didn’t go. And here you have the exclusive on why Derek didn’t attend. Nice work :)

  19. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    If Swisher was smart, he’d have invited the Steinbrenner clan. Think of the gifts that would bring…maybe a new contract extension for Nicky-poo.

  20. ac1 December 11th, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    yankees don’t do contract extensions. they should start though, it would save them a lot of grief.

  21. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    Fran, is that an official scoop if it’s not on Twitter?

  22. SAS December 11th, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    I imagine a lot of guys were invited but were not in the wedding party.

  23. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    I can’t picture Swisher getting married and Damon as Best Man. The bachelor party must have been like a frat party.

  24. Yank 97 December 11th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    Cam Newton: “My Parent do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed.”

    Probably don’t want to be going there on your Heisman speech.

    ———–

    Hahaha he really said that?

    Damn, he made it too easy

  25. Fran the original December 11th, 2010 at 9:25 pm

    GB,

    I think your scoop counts, although you probably should have tweeted it first.

  26. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:26 pm

    Me? Tweet? I can’t even whistle.

  27. NYY fan in NH December 11th, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    Cliff Lee not only paralyzed the Yankees in the playoffs, but also in free agency.

  28. Fran the original December 11th, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    GB,
    LOL

  29. murphydog December 11th, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Congrats to Swish and Mrs. Swish.

    I think Alex has a house in the Miami area and Damon lives up by Orlando. Short trip for them. It would be nice to think more teammates were able to attend but the off-season is too short as it is and these guys make all kinds of plans – business and personal – for these few months off. It’s to his credit that Alex was there. Ditto Damon. I think Damon and Swish are on the same frequency.

  30. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Murph, somewhere along the line, I think both Swisher and Damon had their frequencies scrambled. Those two just aren’t right.

  31. DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    Swish should have invited Lee to his wedding…..maybe Lee would have gotten drunk, and signed with the Yankees..

  32. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    Funny how things turn out. If we don’t get Lee and it sure doesn’t sound too positive, (hope I’m wrong) it shows that you never really know what’s going to transpire. The entire baseball universe thought it was a slam dunk we would get Lee. And the reason we passed on Holliday, aside from his cost, a year ago was because Crawford was going be available. And so it goes.

  33. murphydog December 11th, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    GB7:

    “Murph, somewhere along the line, I think both Swisher and Damon had their frequencies scrambled. Those two just aren’t right.”

    Imagine two old transistor radios that don’t work unless you hold them just the right way. Damon and Swish.

  34. pat December 11th, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    ” And the reason we passed on Holliday, aside from his cost, a year ago was because Crawford was going be available. ”

    Did someone from the Yankees ever say that?

  35. UnKnown December 11th, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-.....id=5909378

    I like Rob Parker. Smart dude.

  36. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    The Yankees always liked Crawford and it was talked about a great deal in the media, on Yes, etc. We had no left-fielder, then Gardner had a decent year.

  37. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 9:49 pm

    Why would the Yankees pass on Holliday if the reason for acquiring a big ticket LF was tied to Gardner?

  38. BJK December 11th, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    Crawford is a great player, but not $20 million per year better than Gardner.

  39. blake December 11th, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    Rob Parker is a homer for the Yanks but he’s absolutely right in this case. If Lee wants to set his kids and grandkids up for life and have the chance to become a legend…..then he should sign with the Yankees.

  40. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:50 pm

    If AJ didn’t suck and if Joba somehow reverted to his 2008 pre-injury form, they may have prioritized someone over Lee, but that didn’t happen, so we are where we are.

    But $142m for Crawford is ri-freakin-diculous.

  41. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    The media can say and hope out loud about any player they would like to see as yankees. The yankee team can’t say anything about wanting another team’s players.

  42. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    We’ll see how Gardner progresses. Crawford and Holliday are both sure things.

  43. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    The Yankees could never say that publicly that’s tampering.

  44. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    “We’ll see how Gardner progresses. Crawford and Holliday are both sure things.”

    The $16+m that Gardner saves is also a sure thing, surer really.

  45. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    Is Crawford a sure thing for 7 years?

  46. blake December 11th, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    I actually think the longer this goes and the more time that passes since the Rangers last visit to Arkansas…..the more it favors the Yankees. Texas is the emotional choice, emotion wanes over time….the Yankees are the prudent business choice, more money, more endorsements, more post career opportunities, more chances at championships, best chance to make the HOF.

  47. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 9:54 pm

    Maybe Lee just likes the lifestyle better in Texas. There is great bass fishing less than an hour from Texas and deer hunting in East Texas as well. Close to his family, concerns about his child, his wife being happy. If the money is close enough I wouldn’t be that surprised.

  48. YankeeRay December 11th, 2010 at 9:55 pm

    Interesting take from a Texas writer. Hopefully this is how it goes:

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2.....f-lee.html

  49. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    The market dictates what a player is worth. It’s a matter of supply and demand and what one’s needs are. So to the Red Sox, yes, seven years was obviously worth it to them.

  50. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    “Maybe Lee just likes the lifestyle better in Texas. There is great bass fishing less than an hour from Texas and deer hunting in East Texas as well. Close to his family, concerns about his child, his wife being happy. If the money is close enough I wouldn’t be that surprised.”

    Rinse. Repeat.

  51. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    When the Yankees passed on Holliday last year the entire connection to Brett Gardner in this whole thing completely lost a ground to stand on.

    Gardner was completely unproven a year ago and Matt Holliday was literally the best OF in baseball (until Hamilton made his return).

    The best OF in baseball was available for just money when the Yankees had nothing in LF.

    This Holliday/Crawford stuff has nothing to do with Gardner. The Yankees most likely just don’t want to get tied down into another long term huge money contract for a position player.

  52. Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    I’m going to start a Cliff Lee fan fiction site.

  53. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    “The market dictates what a player is worth. It’s a matter of supply and demand and what one’s needs are. So to the Red Sox, yes, seven years was obviously worth it to them.”

    You argued the contrary position with Jeter.

  54. blake December 11th, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    Lee isn’t going to have time to hunt or fish during the season no matter where he plays and the majority of deer season is after baseball is over anyway. He’s going to be in Arkansas from the end of October until spring training starts either way.

  55. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    “The market dictates what a player is worth. It’s a matter of supply and demand and what one’s needs are. So to the Red Sox, yes, seven years was obviously worth it to them.”

    —————–

    You won’t know the answer to this for another 7 years.

  56. pat December 11th, 2010 at 9:58 pm

    Holliday and Crawford were both free agents. Yankees could have said anything they wanted without tampering with anything.

  57. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    “Lee isn’t going to have time to hunt or fish during the season no matter where he plays ”

    People from this area may not realize it, but there is great hunting and fishing in NJ/NY.

  58. Erica in NY December 11th, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    JohnnY Damon was at the wedding!!!!!!!!

  59. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    YankeeRay – interesting article I would never have seen. Thanks for the link.

  60. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    The market dictating what a player is worth assumes it is an efficient market.

    Baseball free agency is not an efficient market. Far from it.

  61. Yank 97 December 11th, 2010 at 10:01 pm

    Isn’t the hunting/fishing season in November/December anyway? He’ll be back in Arkansas by then anyway

  62. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    YankeeRay,

    cheap shots at the Yankees aside….at least she understands what a bad idea it is for the Rangers to give Lee a 6 or 7 year contract for 23+ million dollars a year. The Rangers have gotten caught up in this competition….problem is that they are competing with an organization that can absorb risk like this much much easier and has a history of doing so. The one other time the Rangers did something like this in their history it set their organization back nearly a decade.

  63. pat December 11th, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    Erica

    I knew you’d like that!

  64. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 9:57 pm

    “The market dictates what a player is worth. It’s a matter of supply and demand and what one’s needs are. So to the Red Sox, yes, seven years was obviously worth it to them.” You argued the contrary position with Jeter.

    **********

    You are absolutely wrong I never took the opposite position with Jeter. Jeter is on a different level. He is an icon and the face of a franchise, etc.

  65. michaels07 December 11th, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    Carl Pavano is still available, he`s healthy and needs a rest.

  66. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:03 pm

    There is no fishing season.

  67. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    “People from this area may not realize it, but there is great hunting and fishing in NJ/NY.”

    to be fair, it’s not like Texas….especially with regards to whitetails, but again most of that is after the baseball season is over anyway. Lee will have 3-4 months to do all the hunting and fishing he wants no matter where he plays.

  68. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    pat December 11th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
    Holliday and Crawford were both free agents. Yankees could have said anything they wanted without tampering with anything.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    yes, after they filed for free agency…not before.

  69. pat December 11th, 2010 at 10:05 pm

    If you planned your schedule around the Giant game tomorrow, you might be able to make other plans…..

    SamBorden Looks like Giants/Vikings will be on Monday night, as per @sanford33 (Vikings’ Jamarca Sanford)

  70. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    The market dictates what a player is worth. When the first player of a certain level goes, he helps set the market. i.e. Werth.

  71. YankeeRay December 11th, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    # blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:02 pm

    YankeeRay,

    cheap shots at the Yankees aside….at least she understands what a bad idea it is for the Rangers to give Lee a 6 or 7 year contract for 23+ million dollars a year. The Rangers have gotten caught up in this competition….problem is that they are competing with an organization that can absorb risk like this much much easier and has a history of doing so. The one other time the Rangers did something like this in their history it set their organization back nearly a decade.

    ——-

    And this is the problem. The Texas group is on a roll. They won the bid to own the team, beat the Yanks to get to the World Series, and now they are trying to win this competition that they have no right being in.
    She is right in that if he goes to the Yanks then Texas probably wins but the incoherent ownership can’t see the forest through the trees.

  72. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 10:07 pm

    This:

    “You are absolutely wrong I never took the opposite position with Jeter.”

    Is disproved by this:

    “Jeter is on a different level. He is an icon and the face of a franchise, etc.”

    You didn’t even want the market to inform the negotiations. You want him to get sick money and years.

    I get it though, I really do.

  73. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    With the money that he’ll be making, Lee can buy enough wooded property to go hunting any time he wants to.

  74. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    The market dictates what a player is worth. When the first player of a certain level goes, he helps set the market. i.e. Werth.

    ***

    No. The market dictates what a player is paid, not worth.

  75. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    “She is right in that if he goes to the Yanks then Texas probably wins but the incoherent ownership can’t see the forest through the trees.”

    If their ownership is willing to take the payroll to the 150 million range and will have the revenue streams to do that then ok….but if they give Lee 23+ million bucks a year then I will be very interested to see what they do when Josh Hamilton, CJ Wilson, and Nelson Cruz expect the same treatment when they reach free agency. That team isn’t as young as it seems and pretty soon they won’t be as inexpensive as they are now……unless they let guys walk.

  76. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    In any event, having grown up in New York City and having lived in Texas for many years, there is a huge difference in lifestyle. And there is the proximity to family. I am just saying, if the money is at all close, (and it appears the Rangers offered a seventh year as an option, under what terms and whether it’s guaranteed who knows). It wouldn’t shock me if he chose Texas.

  77. Yankee Trader December 11th, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    If I remember correctly, people were concerned how well Holliday would hit away from Coors field.

    No fishing season, but there is the season of the witch.

    YankeeRay-Enjoyed the article.

  78. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    LGY – I am not playing stupid sophomoric semantic games with you. Go argue with someone else.

  79. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    “to be fair, it’s not like Texas….especially with regards to whitetail”

    There are deer in my backyard on a regular basis and I live in the suburbs.

  80. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:13 pm

    WCYF,

    I think the Yankees will make sure the money isn’t all that close. I’m not convinced that Cashman won’t bump the offer again if he has to…..Lee will have to leave a good chunk of cash on the table to choose Texas IMO.

  81. RMS December 11th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    If Lee doesn’t sign with the Yankees, let him swelter in the Texas heat.

  82. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    “There are deer in my backyard on a regular basis and I live in the suburbs.”

    There are deer everywhere….they have bigger horns in Texas.

  83. Angelo Silecchio December 11th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    LGY, what’s the difference between what he is paid and what he is worth? I think that’s a bit of semantics. You’re technically right but it doesn’t really matter at the end of the day. Perception is reality, if the market is perceiving these players are worth a certain amount, they’ll be paid it. In order to find out what a player is truly “worth” you have to take ticket sales, playoff berths, playoff profits, and stuff like that in to consideration. It becomes a convoluted process.

    http://sportsthunderdome.blogspot.com/

  84. DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    there are enough deer in New York State that if Lee drives around for an hour or two,he’ll probably run into one…..no need for a rifle…

  85. pat December 11th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

    Any professional journalist who calls Alex Rodriguez “A-Fraud” is pandering to a fan base and loses credibility points.

  86. pat December 11th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    A deer hit my car one day (not the other way around). I was driving on Route 22 in NJ and he leaped into the road, landed on the hood of my car and leaped off the other side into a shopping center parking lot.

    My pulse still hasn’t returned to normal.

  87. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    I hope you’re right Blake. If it comes to money with Lee. There is that rumor that he told teammates in Texas that six years guaranteed would do it. Maybe that’s enough money for him. Maybe that is not true. The one thing no one knows is what’s in his head; we will know soon enough.

    I have to believe at some point the last phone call will be made and the Yankees will be high bidder. Maybe that’s already happened and he is just deciding. Does that mean he will choose New York? I’m not sure.

  88. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    RMS December 11th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
    If Lee doesn’t sign with the Yankees, let him swelter in the Texas heat.

    He will have plenty of cash for AC

  89. murphydog December 11th, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    GB7:

    “With the money that he’ll be making, Lee can buy enough wooded property to go hunting any time he wants to.”

    That hunting thing don’t go over real well up here in NY if you are famous at all. PETA and all that. You pretty much have to be Ted Nugent to get away with shooting cute, fuzzy animals once the public knows your name.

    Hey, let’s get Clifford a playstation 3 with that Move Motion controller and let him “shoot” virtual cute, fuzzy animals on his bigscreen TV.

  90. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 10:18 pm

    WCYF

    If you believe the difference between salary and worth is purely semantics as opposed to fundamental concepts then you literally have no understanding as to the words that are coming out of your mouth (or in this case keyboard)

  91. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    pat,

    its very scary. I was hit by one (it hit me, I didn’t hit it) back in the summer. I was just driving down the road and it rammed into my door…..dented it in so far that I couldn’t even open it to get out. I had no idea what had happened, I thought a car T-boned me at first.

  92. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 10:21 pm

    murphydog December 11th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
    GB7:

    “With the money that he’ll be making, Lee can buy enough wooded property to go hunting any time he wants to.”

    That hunting thing don’t go over real well up here in NY if you are famous at all. PETA and all that. You pretty much have to be Ted Nugent to get away with shooting cute, fuzzy animals once the public knows your name.

    Hey, let’s get Clifford a playstation 3 with that Move Motion controller and let him “shoot” virtual cute, fuzzy animals on his bigscreen TV.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Up in Michigan, they just go hunting for yellow-tailed PETA.

  93. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    LGY – I’m not arguing semantics with you any longer. You are just arguing to argue. Have a really pleasant evening.

  94. DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Heyman is tweeting that he doesn’t feel Lee taking his time means anything bad for Yankee fans,not to read onto it…

  95. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    WCYF,

    Yea, I don’t know. There have been so many rumors flying around this thing that who knows what to believe. I do believe that 7/161 (or maybe more) will be hard for anybody to walk away from when it comes right down to it..

  96. pat December 11th, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    Blake

    4 hoof prints on the hood and 10 years off my life was the only damage.

  97. blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    pat,

    lets hope that 2nd part doesn’t turn out to be true ;)

  98. SAS December 11th, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    Not only have my husband and I each had accidents with deer hitting our cars, but they just love landscaping. Don’t plant tulips and lilies in my yard.

    I live about an hour depending on traffic outside NYC, but less than that to Yankee Stadium. No hunting here any more though. If it weren’t so damned dangerous, I would love the deer to be hunted to the last one for all the problems they cause, and I love animals.

  99. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    I hear that Lee’s dog has a huge crush on this French Poodle that lives in NYC, it may sway the deal the Yankees way.

  100. SAS December 11th, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    Blake,

    It’s true, if only euphemistically.

  101. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    blake December 11th, 2010 at 10:26 pm

    WCYF, Yea, I don’t know. There have been so many rumors flying around this thing that who knows what to believe. I do believe that 7/161 (or maybe more) will be hard for anybody to walk away from when it comes right down to it..

    ***************

    Sounds like monopoly money doesn’t it. It’s a big poker game, two players left at the table calling each other.

  102. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 10:31 pm

    Interesting Giants may get moved to MNF. Concern is snow load on the roof at Minn if the game were to be played on Sunday. Sets up then a short week for Philly. Giant boards are heated up just like the Yanks.

  103. SAS December 11th, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    I don’t see Cliff Lee’s kids in NYC public or private schools. The ‘burbs are a better fit.

  104. RMS December 11th, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    “He will have plenty of cash for AC”

    Not when he is on the mound.

  105. SAS December 11th, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Gary,

    Do you know what teams are playing Monday night?

  106. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    “LGY – I’m not arguing semantics with you any longer. You are just arguing to argue. Have a really pleasant evening.”

    ——————

    In essence, what you are saying is that it is semantics to challenge your point that because the Red Sox gave Crawford 7 years it was obviously worth it to them.

    What you are saying is that I can’t disagree with that point.

    If you are going to assert things as fact, then you should be able to support it when someone challenges the point, not the words you used (because I fundamentally disagree with your assertion) instead of reverting to this.

    I do not agree that Crawford is worth 7 years because the Red Sox gave him that.

    Either you can challenge why I am not correct or don’t post things as fact you are uncertain about.

  107. Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    I hit a bear w/ my car in central New York.

    Thing came darting out of the woods and I couldn’t stop. Car was destroyed and the damn thing ran off.

    Knowing that there was a very angry bear around made waiting for the tow truck very scary.

  108. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Have a really pleasant evening LGY.

  109. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    This discussion about hitting deer with cars reminds me of back in high school and this cheerleader, and a bunch of us were heading to an after game party. She hit a deer with her brand new car. It happened about a half a mile from a state police post. Winter night and she walks in squalling about wrecking her car. The police start taking down info and she’s still squalling and we’re trying to calm her down enough to talk and call her daddy. The cop tells her that the insurance will fix the car and he gets to the part about filling out name and address. They ask her name and she tells the cop that her name is Bambi. He starts laughing and asks her if the deer was her mother. We all about fell out. and she started squalling again.

    True story. If I’m lyin’, I’m dyin’.

    now this isn’t on the same level as last night’s tragic saga about the scoundrel and the hotel clerk as told by Christina, but, it’s close.

  110. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    SAS, not a decision yet as the NFL is still weighing options. I guess the Giants have a 8AM flight to Minn and arrive at 9AM. If they can get to there on the scheduled time the game could still play at the scheduled 12PM CST. If not then it’s supposed to get pushed back to 4:15. That is without this Snow Load consideration. If they can’t play due to safety or ongoing travel issue then there will be two MNF games this week. Who knows the when and the what about times and TV.

  111. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    My Mom’s car got really damaged one time by I think 3 deer.

    She always said the deer ran into her, instead of she ran into the deer.

    No one ever believed her.

    Maybe she wasn’t lying :(

  112. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Anyone think the governor is going to call?

  113. Fran the original December 11th, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Gary,

    The Giant game has officially been moved to Monday night.

  114. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    Tom in N.J. December 11th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
    I hit a bear w/ my car in central New York.

    Thing came darting out of the woods and I couldn’t stop. Car was destroyed and the damn thing ran off.

    Knowing that there was a very angry bear around made waiting for the tow truck very scary.

    GLAD you lived to post it wow.that is the most interesting thing I’ve read on here in hours possibly days.

  115. Ed H. December 11th, 2010 at 10:42 pm

    It could simply be that Lee made the decision Thursday or Friday but decided to give himself the weekend before announcing it to see if it still felt right after a couple of days. Heyman’s right. You just don’t know what’s going on.

  116. Gary December 11th, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    Thanks Fran, just went back to Giants site and they are saying 8PM Monday. I was hoping that TV would be widely shown, but I guess it’s just NY and Minn markets.

  117. Fran the original December 11th, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Gary,

    I guess contractually they can’t compete with the ESPN Monday night game.

  118. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 10:47 pm

    Heyman’s right. You just don’t know what’s going on.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Must have been Brian Heyman who said that. Jon Heyman knows everything that’s going on. Just ask his nephew, WCYF.

  119. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Uncle – not nephew.

  120. Yogi Mantle December 11th, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    I live in Central NY. I can guarantee you that the deer will just run into your car, dart out from the side of the roads, and if there is one deer, there are others soon to follow.

    I had a deer jump out at me, it landed on the hood of the van, slide right up to my windshield laying sideways. I stopped the van, the deer slide off, legs going a mile a minute, landed on the road still on its side, and it was running like crazy. Going no where for about a minute, then it finally realized it was on its side, got up and ran off.

    I was lucky, it only damaged the front lights and I had deer fur all over the place.

    Deer run pretty thick up here, as well as bear, fox, coy-dogs. There are a ton of hunters here as well. Lee would feel right at home.

  121. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

    DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 10:25 pm

    Heyman is tweeting that he doesn’t feel Lee taking his time means anything bad for Yankee fans,not to read onto it…

    **************

    Doc I don’t see this tweet. Do you have a link?

  122. christina12 December 11th, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Talking about deers brought back memories When I was 19 years old I started dating a guy who was 23. I was going out for a couple weeks when one day he came and he had scratches all over his face. I asked him what happened and he started telling me that one night he was driving in a road in the mountain when all the sudden he saw a fox on the side of the road. He started chasing it with the car so he can catch it. He wanted to kill it so he can sell the skin and make good money. Then he lost control of the car and crashed it. The car was badly damaged and he had to pay a lot of money to fix it. I was like. What in the world you were thinking? You could have been killed or seriously injured. Needless to say I broke up with him couple days after that.

  123. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Deer are plentiful in North Central Jersey as well. I come home from a Yankee game late at night and there are 20 of them grazing on my lawn. Someone needs to educate Mr. Lee to our NY metro area wildlife.

  124. blake December 11th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    The thing that gives me the most optimism in this whole Cliff Lee thing is that Lee and his agent declined to give the Rangers the number that it would take to retain him as they requested….if truly his absolute preference was to stay in Texas then it looks like to me that he would have communicated it at that point…..he could have told them whatever number he wanted and then waited to see if they bit but instead he gave them no such advantage. What that tells me is that maybe if all were equal he would return to the Rangers….but he’s more interested in holding an auction for his services and if that’s the case the Yankees are going to make sure it won’t all be equal. I think that indicates that he’s not necessarily married to Texas.

  125. christina12 December 11th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    ED H,
    I do believe that he made his decision. He is probably going to announce it tommorow.

  126. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    I am beginning to agree with that joeman guy even though he just started out negative without much conviction. i’m also fast losing interest in whether this guy signs or not and in any event have stopped reading into this or that reported comment or the latest piece of news. if he does not decide on NY & cashman is foolish enough to trade the montero kid or one of the trenton star pitching guys for one Zack G. or alternative then it really comes down to the crescendo portion of poor leadership & planning &over reacting to boston moves.

  127. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    Needless to say I broke up with him couple days after that

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    It was kind and humane of you to break up with him. He’d suffered enough.

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:04 pm

    when they make it to my concrete jungle i’ll know the end of the world is at hand.

  129. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Ellsbury and Crawford batting 1,2 or 1,3 is going to cause havoc.

  130. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    On the other hand, not getting Lee means we risk Cash wasting the farm, while getting Lee means we can retain Montero and hopefully let the Killer B’s develop.

  131. PittsburghYankeeFan December 11th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    Yawn again.

    This is all about money and the big stage. The rest is fluff. George S would have already paid $175 x 7 and been done with it. However (thankfully) son Hal is in charge, and there are some limits.

    Texas is somewhere at $130 x 6 or so with an option year to make it around $145-150 (maybe). This is incredibly bad business for them, and I think Nolan Ryan and Jon Daniels know it. These guys just bought a team, and lucked into the WS. Why not spend a bit of time and see where you are going long term? $100 x 5 is really an upper limit for them, and they went nuts? Why? Why mess up your finances long term? Very, very bad business. Hopefully someone grows up over there and they withdraw their offer. They got caught up in the moment, Dumb. Very dumb.

    Yankees are somewhere at $160-168 x 7 guaranteed, which is also dumb, but they can handle it. They survived Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, and Randy Johnson.

    The leak to Curry is a subtle message to Lee and Braunecker get off the pot already. They know their offer is the best, and it’s not improving much, if at all. They know that when the smoke clears the Rangers, if they get Lee at their current offer, are in deep, with potentially bad consequences, and likely are regretting making it.

    I hope Lee understands that he could be ARod all over again on the Rangers. He should take the $$$ and come to NY.

    When that happens, as Cashman would say, “God help the rest of baseball.”

  132. christina12 December 11th, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    oh really! LOL!

  133. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    Speed is overrated.

  134. DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    west Coast Fan….no link, but I read it on Heyman’s Twitter about 1 hour ago…he said ‘i wouldn’t read into the silence’ in a response to a question asking if the delay meant bad things for Yanks..he still seems to think the money will be the deciding factor as always…google Jon Heyman Twitter….hope he’s right!

  135. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 10:59 pm
    Deer are plentiful in North Central Jersey as well. I come home from a Yankee game late at night and there are 20 of them grazing on my lawn. Someone needs to educate Mr. Lee to our NY metro area wildlife.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Not sure that Mrs. Lee would allow him to check out NYC’s wildlife.

  136. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    Deer Cliff. Doe you really want to play in Texas? Love, Ant Lerisa

  137. DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 11:09 pm

    Goodnight to all, hopefully there will be good news tomorrow!

  138. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
    yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 10:59 pm
    Deer are plentiful in North Central Jersey as well. I come home from a Yankee game late at night and there are 20 of them grazing on my lawn. Someone needs to educate Mr. Lee to our NY metro area wildlife.

    ———————————————————————————————————————-

    Not sure that Mrs. Lee would allow him to check out NYC’s wildlife.
    ____
    lol! I am sure she has a key to the gun cabinet just in case Cliff goes a little too “wild.” ;)

  139. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    yea yankfem sppeed is overhyped by some

  140. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    DocTodd December 11th, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    west Coast Fan….no link, but I read it on Heyman’s Twitter about 1 hour ago…he said ‘i wouldn’t read into the silence’ in a response to a question asking if the delay meant bad things for Yanks..he still seems to think the money will be the deciding factor as always…google Jon Heyman Twitter….hope he’s right!

    ****************

    Just FYI. That wasn’t Heyman. That was one of his followers @yankees007

  141. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    WCYF -

    There is no fishing season? You should stop posting for a while, for the more you do, the greater your ignorance shows.

    Yes little boy, there are fishing seasons and hunting seasons.

    You love everything Red Sox, telling us Cashman and company should follow how Boston conducts business. I wish you would follow the Red Sox, back to their blog, you might feel a lot more at home there.

    As you like to say, can I make that any clearer for you, or explain it in a way you’ll be better able to understand it.

    As always you live up to your rep as a giant bore.

  142. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    lee is stupid yankee stadium is a much better stadium for lefthanders than texas. he also getts all that loot and gets backed up by CC friggin Sabathia and possibly Pettitte.with lee in it our staff is just about lights out at least for 2011.

  143. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:14 pm

    Cliff Lee Rumors: Saturday
    By Mike Axisa [December 11 at 10:11pm CST]

    There was not much movement on the Cliff Lee front yesterday, but the free agent lefty could agree to a contract at any moment. Here are today’s batch of rumors, with the latest news featured at the top throughout the day…

    Brian Cashman told Marc Carig of The Star Ledger that he hasn’t been to Arkansas to visit Lee since the team’s last visit, but he’ll go again “if necessary.” (Twitter link)

    Nolan Ryan told MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan that he expects Lee to take the weekend to mull over the offers, then come to a decision on Monday. “I’ve run all my traps and don’t know anything,” said the Hall of Famer, “so we’ll just wait and see.”

    Jack Curry of the YES Network hears from people that have spoken to Yankee officials that they have expressed “a bit of skepticism” about signing Lee (Twitter link).

    SI.com’s Jon Heyman reports that the Rangers originally offered five years and $100MM, but they added a sixth guaranteed year and what is believed to be “some form of option that could turn the new deal into a seven-year contract” when they last visited Lee in Arkansas.

  144. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 11:16 pm

    I’m all for a Lee-Free Day, tomorrow.

    Cliff Lee Rumors: Saturday
    By Mike Axisa [December 11 at 10:11pm CST]
    There was not much movement on the Cliff Lee front yesterday, but the free agent lefty could agree to a contract at any moment. Here are today’s batch of rumors, with the latest news featured at the top throughout the day…

    •Brian Cashman told Marc Carig of The Star Ledger that he hasn’t been to Arkansas to visit Lee since the team’s last visit, but he’ll go again “if necessary.” (Twitter link)
    •Nolan Ryan told MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan that he expects Lee to take the weekend to mull over the offers, then come to a decision on Monday. “I’ve run all my traps and don’t know anything,” said the Hall of Famer, “so we’ll just wait and see.”

  145. GreenBeret7 December 11th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Well, time to watch “Hollywood Knights”.

  146. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    WCYF – There is no fishing season? You should stop posting for a while, for the more you do, the greater your ignorance shows. Yes little boy, there are fishing seasons and hunting seasons.

    ******************

    I really don’t mean to embarrass you Al. But you are wrong. There is no fishing season in Texas. You can fish all year round in both fresh and salt water.

  147. Ed H. December 11th, 2010 at 11:20 pm

    # christina12 December 11th, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    ED H,
    I do believe that he made his decision. He is probably going to announce it tommorow.

    *****************
    That’s my guess too, Christina, either tomorrow or Monday. It will be good to have it settled.

  148. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:21 pm

    It’s ok Al. I understand people make mistakes, I make plenty. No apology needed for calling me ignorant. Have a great evening.

  149. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    Just as long as Lee announces his decision *before* the Jets-Miami game. I don’t want to deal with a decision coming down in the middle of that game or I will be plenty annoyed. Especially if Lee chooses Texas.

  150. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    WCYF -

    Hate to embarrass you, but Lee lives in Arkansa, not Texas, and does his hunting and fishing in the off season. Even if he sighns with the Rangers, the Lee’s primary home will still be Arkansas.

    Players don’t hunt and fish during the season, not enough days off to do that.

    Good try, not a winner once more.

  151. BIG AL December 11th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    I’m calling it a night, you can stay here and talk to yourself WCYF, I can’t stand to get into this crap any longer.

  152. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    it’s an embarrassment to the organization and indictment of the front office that the NYYankees’ 2011 season has been put over a barrel by a 32 yr old free agent pitcher whose ‘no’ could set the whole river ave crew scrambling. i don’t see how anyone can defend cashman with a straight face that it’s come to this, even if he signs. the crux? the bungling of joba chamberlain is at the core of this domino effect. they should tell him to prepare to start and keep it secret, on record say they’re making him a long man so he can gain strength to be a starter again. they may need him especially if Andy decides to stay home.

  153. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    Al – the comment I made was about fishing in Texas in response to this post:

    Yank 97 December 11th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
    “Isn’t the hunting/fishing season in November/December anyway? He’ll be back in Arkansas by then anyway”.

    I responded that there is no fishing season.

    Have a great evening Al. Thanks for the conversation.

  154. clownthrowindown December 11th, 2010 at 11:31 pm

    There are no fishing seasons in Texas.

  155. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    on that note…

  156. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
    it’s an embarrassment to the organization and indictment of the front office that the NYYankees’ 2011 season has been put over a barrel by a 32 yr old free agent pitcher whose ‘no’ could set the whole river ave crew scrambling. i don’t see how anyone can defend cashman with a straight face that it’s come to this, even if he signs. the crux? the bungling of joba chamberlain is at the core of this domino effect. they should tell him to prepare to start and keep it secret, on record say they’re making him a long man so he can gain strength to be a starter again. they may need him especially if Andy decides to stay home.
    ________
    J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
    it’s an embarrassment to the organization and indictment of the front office that the NYYankees’ 2011 season has been put over a barrel by a 32 yr old free agent pitcher whose ‘no’ could set the whole river ave crew scrambling. i don’t see how anyone can defend cashman with a straight face that it’s come to this, even if he signs. the crux? the bungling of joba chamberlain is at the core of this domino effect. they should tell him to prepare to start and keep it secret, on record say they’re making him a long man so he can gain strength to be a starter again. they may need him especially if Andy decides to stay home.
    ________
    For what it is worth, at least AJ seems to have stellar lefties splits during the odd years, 2005, 2007, 2009. So perhaps he is due for another excellent season vs. lefties. I know it is unorthodox, but if we can win World Series when Democrats are in office, then I guess AJ can annihilate lefties in odd calendar years. ;)

  157. BD (Boston Dave) December 11th, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    What would be more surprising?

    Cliff Lee signs with the KC Royals

    or

    A day passes where nobody gets ticked off at WCYF?

  158. Chambliss December 11th, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    I agree about Joba. Too early to call him a relief pitcher for life.

  159. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    I also agree about Joba but unfortunately from Cash’s rhetoric sounds like he is labelled for life as a relief pitcher, so long as he is in Yankeeland.

  160. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    For what it is worth, at least AJ seems to have stellar lefties splits during the odd years, 2005, 2007, 2009. So perhaps he is due for another excellent season vs. lefties. I know it is unorthodox, but if we can win World Series when Democrats are in office, then I guess AJ can annihilate lefties in odd calendar years.

    yankfem – I thought AJ pitched a good game in the playoffs,he threw his change up had more velocity but was left in a little too long. if he can pitch like that and keep the extra mph I agree he could have a good season maybe even save our season. it’s encouraging that he’s going after it with rothschild i think he knows 2010 was rock bottom and wants to acquit himself as weak link on the staff.

  161. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:46 pm

    Chambliss December 11th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
    I agree about Joba. Too early to call him a relief pitcher for life.

    YET that is what the Yankees have branded him. baffling.

  162. West Coast Yankee Fan December 11th, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Good point Dave. Have a great evening, enjoy Boston it’s a beautiful city. I miss the lobster rolls at Kelly’s in Revere Beach. Yum!

  163. clownthrowindown December 11th, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    PeteAbe
    Just speculation from afar, but Cliff Lee taking this long can’t be good for the #Yankees, can it?
    about 3 hours ago via TweetDeck

  164. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:48 pm

    PeteAbe hopes so

  165. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    It is what it is in Yankeeland. I just hope that all the blocking of our pitching prospects by these long FA deals, doesn’t mean they get no shot at all to prove themselves or develop, similar to Joba, Melancon. It is a long season, and I would like to see the Killer B’s get some late season action if we need them, similar to what TB did with Hellickson and Price before him. Although I won’t hold my breath.

  166. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:54 pm

    I bet Boston misses the playoffs. their last memory is Papelbon blowing up against the Angels. priceless.

    yankee fem – defintely dont hold your breath, but that would be fun to see. the yanks are too conservative for me when it comes to the young Ps. have a good night.

  167. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    blowing up against the angels two years ago that is. last year they were a third place team.

  168. LGY December 11th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    “it’s an embarrassment to the organization and indictment of the front office that the NYYankees’ 2011 season has been put over a barrel by a 32 yr old free agent pitcher whose ‘no’ could set the whole river ave crew scrambling. ”

    ———————-

    How do you know it has been put over a barrel when you don’t know what Cashman would do if Lee signs with Texas?

    The Yankees went to the ALCS last year with basically 2 replacement level pitchers in their rotation and only 1 pitcher who threw 200 innings.

  169. Stoneburner December 11th, 2010 at 11:57 pm

    lol – peter abraham trying to chime in with his opinion about free agents and where they are going – he lost all credibility in reading free agent markets during the 2008 offseason when he ran this blog and kept telling everyone Teixeira was not coming.

  170. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:54 pm
    I bet Boston misses the playoffs. their last memory is Papelbon blowing up against the Angels. priceless.

    yankee fem – defintely dont hold your breath, but that would be fun to see. the yanks are too conservative for me when it comes to the young Ps. have a good night.
    ___
    Nah, I won’t. We will likely see the Noesi’s, Phelps and Warren’s of the world first anyway. Although I kind of liked that we would give AA pitchers occasional looks in years past, Chase Wright excepted. At Trenton is nearby. :)

    Yes, I have been up in Boston to do research the last couple of years, and the fanbase has not been in a very chipper mood when they spy my Yankee cap. Just think Beckett still pitches for them. Cheery thought. ;)

  171. yankeefeminista December 11th, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    *at least*

  172. J. Alfred Prufrock December 11th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    well let’s see cashman ALREADY traded montero for two months of cliff lee and was lucky the Mariners backed out.

  173. Rich in NJ December 11th, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    “Just speculation from afar, but Cliff Lee taking this long can’t be good for the #Yankees, can it?”

    Why is that? The quick and easy thing to do is to stay where he was for a month or two.

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:01 am

    incidentally I’m not saying we’re over a barrel my point is that will be the yankees’ interpretation. i say put chamberlain back in the stinking rotation resign Andy and roll it out there. have jc working in the shadows and then spring him when necessary for depth.

  175. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    “well let’s see cashman ALREADY traded montero for two months of cliff lee and was lucky the Mariners backed out.”

    ————–

    Which had it’s positives and negatives.

    Cashman had the foresight that the Yankees rotation was unstable. When the rumors came about the Yankees trading for Lee, how many articles were written about it being overkill? Then, a month later the Yankee rotation became a disaster.

    The Yankees very likely go to the WS if they traded for Lee and they likely are not dealing with a bidding war with Texas right now to retain him.

    The negative is that the Yankees lose their top prospect.

    The trade would have hurt and losing Montero would have sucked, but there was logic behind doing it and if the Yankees were back to back WS champions I suspect the contingent of fans complaining about that trade would be far less.

  176. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:05 am

    Yes, I have been up in Boston to do research the last couple of years, and the fanbase has not been in a very chipper mood when they spy my Yankee cap. Just think Beckett still pitches for them. Cheery thought.

    yankfem – Beckett has been like a rare steak to hungry yankee sluggers since he got to Boston lol

  177. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:06 am

    And that is not to say I was happy with the trade. I was very, very torn when the rumors were flying that day. Part of me absolutely hated it and part of me loved it.

    I just understand where Cashman was coming from.

  178. Rich in NJ December 12th, 2010 at 12:09 am

    I was 100% against the trade. I understood it too, but I still viscerally hated it.

  179. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:10 am

    The trade would have hurt and losing Montero would have sucked, but there was logic behind doing it and if the Yankees were back to back WS champions I suspect the contingent of fans complaining about that trade would be far less.

    YOU are first of all making an assumption and even if it held water I’ll raise you one and say this fan would not have wanted a WS appearance or even WC in exchange for a prolific montero career in pinstripes. It was a typical kneejerk, cover-my-ass attempt that was foiled by dummy JackZ. JackZ may be the guy responsible for future yankee championships, imagine that.

    so sell ur Cashman shilling somewhere else

  180. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    I’d love to see us go with what we have pitching-wise, at least to start, if we don’t sign Lee. However, that will never happen b/c Cash is back to the pre-2008 need for instant gratification. I would love to see us take our time making a major move, see how AJ pitches, etc. but I would doubt that would happen.

    & I agree the move to sign Lee for a two month rental was troubling to say the least, esp. considering the trade chip.

  181. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:12 am

    That whole day I was going back and forth about how I felt about the trade.

    When I first heard about the trade, I was unhappy about it. When I heard the trade fell through I felt relieved. That should probably signal to me how I really felt about it instead of my going back and forth in the middle of it.

  182. Dill Pickler December 12th, 2010 at 12:14 am

    J. Alfred — the reason the Yankees have put Joba back in the pen and branded him a reliever is because he absolutely SUCKED as a starter. Do you not remember how bad he was???

  183. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:14 am

    understood it understood it its understandable that cashman blew it with chamberlain then blew it by getting vazquez and was ready to colossally blow it by trading away montero to try and compensate for those bad decisions. the only thing he ain’t responsible for is AJ’s unthinkable season.

  184. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:15 am

    “It was a typical kneejerk, cover-my-ass attempt that was foiled by dummy JackZ. JackZ may be the guy responsible for future yankee championships, imagine that.

    so sell ur Cashman shilling somewhere else”

    ——————–

    Kneejerk implies Cashman reacted to something and panicked or made a rash decision.

    Everyone was saying at the time it was overkill to get Lee.

    What was Cashman knee-jerking at or covering for?

    The rotation was looking very solid at the time of the trade. Even Vazquez was pitching well.

  185. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    It is ridiculous how much right now is riding on Lee. If no Lee = no Andy, and Montero and Betances, Laird, another A prospect being dealt that is a lot to lose in addition to Lee.

    That is why we have to make our pitching prospects are strength. Sure, use some for trade chips, but never be in a position to overpay or be “forced” to make moves because you weakened the farm. It is shooting yourself in the foot.

  186. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Pre ASB, the Yankees had the 2nd best Team ERA in the American League.

  187. SAS December 12th, 2010 at 12:17 am

    But with all the catchers coming up, I am not so sure you are right. We would have had ‘king Felix’ and we wouldn’t have been going through this nonsense now. Also, we might have won the WS last year.

  188. Patrick December 12th, 2010 at 12:18 am

    The rotation was looking very solid at the time of the trade. Even Vazquez was pitching well.

    After the Lee deal fell through Pettitte got hurt, Burnett continued his freefall and Vazquez stopped being effective. I don’t think anyone could have predicted that.

  189. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:19 am

    Andy was hurt at the time of the prospective trade, Cash didn’t trust AJ, and Hughes was starting to suffer from fatigue. I understand why Cash was motivated to make the deal; however, I did not like that we were dealing Montero or that Lee was a two month rental.

  190. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:20 am

    the starter joba chamberlain was in 2008 was worth fighting for. they panicked as usual looking for short-term payoffs and sacrificing the futre, forfeiting forever the chance to have him reworked in the minor leagues and having low expectations for him which is where we are now.

  191. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 12:21 am

    TIRADE WARNING

    Enough with Montero. He is a prospect. No one prospect is bigger than the team or the future. This BA love affair with prospects – which has always actually been there for hardcore fans – needs to be put in perspective.

    Look, the greatest Yankees prospect of the past 20 years never made it past AA Albany really – his name was Brien Taylor – he was a pitcher – and he could have transformed this franchise even more if he had stayed healthy. There will be other Montero’s – if Montero is traded – he is traded – a WS championship is always worth more than the potential of a prospect – especially a hitting prospect.

    The love affair with Montero is damaging – it is damaging to fans who build up unrealistic expectations and to the player if he does not hit like a Frank Thomas, a Miguel Cabrera.

    Sorry – but Montero is just another prospect in a long line of Yankees prospects – but he IS NEVER BIGGER THAN A WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONSHIP – it is a team sport – not an individual prospect love fest.

  192. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:22 am

    “It is ridiculous how much right now is riding on Lee. If no Lee = no Andy, and Montero and Betances, Laird, another A prospect being dealt that is a lot to lose in addition to Lee.”

    ———-

    Like I asked Prufrock, how do you know this?

    In the event the Yankees do not get Lee, should ride it out until we see what happens.

    There is no reason to jump to conclusions without any facts.

  193. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Certain Yankees’ fans are dangerous – they build up these prospects in their heads with unrealistic expectations – and when the prospect struggles to make the hardest adjustment in the game – the leap to the majors – they turn on them.

    The farm system is there to help and supplement the team – not to be some be all to end all.

  194. SAS December 12th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    Stoneburner,

    I agree.

  195. SAS December 12th, 2010 at 12:25 am

    good night all

  196. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:26 am

    Like I asked Prufrock, how do you know this?

    In the event the Yankees do not get Lee, should ride it out until we see what happens.

    There is no reason to jump to conclusions without any facts.
    _________
    IF this should come to fruition it would be a great price to pay. I don’t presume to “know” just as you don’t.

  197. yclept December 12th, 2010 at 12:28 am

    J Alfred -

    Cashman has his pros and cons as a GM – just like every GM has his pros and cons. Bottom line is that in this market, no GM behaves differently than Cashman when it comes to the big ticket item. If they sense a need, they are going to go hard after filling that need. Everyone seems to assume that Cashman will automatically trade the farm for a pitcher if Lee doesn’t sign; yet, there are no real indications of that. He may make a smaller-scale deal or no deal at all. We have no idea.

    Let’s not get too overprotective of the farm system; no farmhand should ever be untouchable. There was a time when Yankees fans would have jumped off a bridge if the franchise dared deal Ruben Rivera. I am not saying Montero should be traded for Mark Buehrle – what I am saying is that we don’t know where Montero’s career is going and if a trade comes up that makes sense, he should definitely be on the table.

    I love watching young players blossom – I follow the minor leagues pretty religiously and even write a nightly blog entry during the season on how the prospects did on that particular night. But I also realize that the vast majority of the players I report on are going to become nothing to write home about as they ascend through the minors. That’s the nature of the beast.

  198. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Sorry – but Montero is just another prospect in a long line of Yankees prospects – but he IS NEVER BIGGER THAN A WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONSHIP – it is a team sport – not an individual prospect love fest.

    let me try and help you out: some fans would rather see the franchise set itself up for championship runs rather than trading a middle order monster who could help the team win for years. ur prospect lecture is pretty lame by the way

  199. tyanksfan36 December 12th, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Yankeefeminista

    Andy was not hurt at the time they wanted to trade for Lee. They played the mariners the series before the all star break. It was during that series he was traded to texas. It was in the series after the allstar break against the rays when andy got hurt.
    Before andy went down they were saying it would be greedy to get Lee because we had a decent rotation and someone would get bumped to the pen. When andy got hurt we were all saying how much it sucked the trade fell through.

  200. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:31 am

    Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 12:24 am
    Certain Yankees’ fans are dangerous – they build up these prospects in their heads with unrealistic expectations

    YOU KNOW ur off-and-running lecture would have a little more weight to it if we were talking about 17 yr old Gary Sanchez. this is a guy with 80-80 power whose on the precipice of joining the big club. you need to choose your battles better my friend.

  201. clownthrowindown December 12th, 2010 at 12:32 am

    yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:12 am
    I’d love to see us go with what we have pitching-wise, at least to start, if we don’t sign Lee. However, that will never happen b/c Cash is back to the pre-2008 need for instant gratification.

    Meet the new boss…he’s the same as the old boss.

  202. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:33 am

    IMO, Lee is not signing with the Yankees.

    Night all.

  203. Patrick December 12th, 2010 at 12:35 am

    80-80 power? He has 80 power what’s the other 80?

  204. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:35 am

    Let’s not get too overprotective of the farm system; no farmhand should ever be untouchable

    OK LET’S not do that…this whole post of yours is as non sequitur as the other guy’s lecture

  205. tyanksfan36 December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 am

    I too think some prospects are hyped up but some are pretty amazing. I know that I was impressed by every game I went to that Betances pitched. Will he ever make it in the majors? No one knows but as good as he was when I saw him. I wouldn’t put it past him to be good if he doesn’t get hurt, If he gets traded he would be good for some other team too.

  206. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 am

    Patrick December 12th, 2010 at 12:35 am
    80-80 power? He has 80 power what’s the other 80?

    really…trite.

  207. Patrick December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 am

    By the way, i don’t see how Lee waiting to sign is either good or bad for the Yankees. Sabathia waited for awhile after getting the Yankee offer too

  208. Patrick December 12th, 2010 at 12:37 am

    What do you mean prufrock?

  209. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 12:21 am
    TIRADE WARNING

    Enough with Montero. He is a prospect. No one prospect is bigger than the team or the future. This BA love affair with prospects – which has always actually been there for hardcore fans – needs to be put in perspective.

    Look, the greatest Yankees prospect of the past 20 years never made it past AA Albany really – his name was Brien Taylor – he was a pitcher – and he could have transformed this franchise even more if he had stayed healthy. There will be other Montero’s – if Montero is traded – he is traded – a WS championship is always worth more than the potential of a prospect – especially a hitting prospect.

    The love affair with Montero is damaging – it is damaging to fans who build up unrealistic expectations and to the player if he does not hit like a Frank Thomas, a Miguel Cabrera.

    Sorry – but Montero is just another prospect in a long line of Yankees prospects – but he IS NEVER BIGGER THAN A WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONSHIP – it is a team sport – not an individual prospect love fest.
    ___________
    This has nothing to do with “love affairs.” You addressing the wrong person here. This has to do with a plan going forward in which you do your evaluations and draw up your five year plan. You don’t want to assume one player is going to = a World Series.

    & Brien Taylor was in AA and got in a stupid bar fight. Not sure what he has to do with Montero whose bat has been considered major league ready for two years. As for expectations for him, that narrative has nothing to do with a philosophy regarding keeping your “special” prospects. Who is saddling Montero with unrealistic expectations? As for a missing piece, Lee or anyone else you deal your prospects for could get hurt tomorrow as well. He does not guarantee a World Series Championship. As he didn’t for Texas or for the Phillies.

    As for BA, if you are referring to Baseball America, does anyone really take them seriously? and for the record, they actually weren’t big fans of Montero until they were forced to be. However, the day I let BA determine who I rank higher than someone else is the day hell freezes over.

  210. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:39 am

    *You’re addressing*

  211. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:41 am

    80 out of 80 I think Prufrock meant, no?

  212. Rob_NY December 12th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    “The farm system is there to help and supplement the team – not to be some be all to end all.”

    I disagree and so should everyone else. The farm system is the life blood of your franchise. Given the choice between rooting for Jeter-Cano-Posada and Grandy-A-Rod-Swish I root for the homegrown guys 100% of the time (and I love A-Rod). The game isn’t about buying the shiniest new toy and supplementing them with guys like Ramiro Pena. It’s about grooming the next big hitter from the time he’s 17 and watching him flourish with your team.

    Saying that the system is there to supplement the free agents is really to have the roles of each mode of player development completely backwards IMHO.

  213. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:42 am

    If I were Cashman, I’d announce that the Yankees will withdraw their offer Sunday night at 11:59pm.

    Time to move on and make other decisions.

  214. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:43 am

    Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 12:24 am
    Certain Yankees’ fans are dangerous – they build up these prospects in their heads with unrealistic expectations

    STRAWMAN leaps to “these prospects” and “unrealistic expectations” when we are talking about ONE prospect whose power and ability to translate to MLB NO ONE IN BASEBALL doubts (the debate is about his catching NOT his bat). the ONE prospect in question, montero, is who we were discussing not “these prospects” which serves your soapbox but isnt related to what was the topic: montero for two months of lee.

  215. LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:45 am

    I love Gary Sanchez as much as the next guy, but I think it is a bit early to say the kid has 80 power.

  216. yclept December 12th, 2010 at 12:46 am

    I am glad you chose one part of my post to “call out” – the meaning of my post does not change. You are talking up Gary Sanchez as if he is the next coming of Johnny Bench; you don’t even know what he looks like and have probably never seen him hold a bat. Right now, he is a big prospect without any experience above the lowest levels of the minors. In other words, he is nowhere near the major leagues at the moment and may never be. Once again, that’s a prospect.

    And I would love to hear what your credentials are as to why nobody should dare pick a battle with you. (Anyone who usually uses a line like this is someone who really has little idea of what they are talking about – but try their best to convince others otherwise).

    I am usually just a lurker here, and I see at least a dozen regulars who have a better grip on the Yankees than you do. And no, not all of them agree with my personal viewpoints of the franchise.

  217. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:46 am

    yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:41 am
    80 out of 80 I think Prufrock meant, no?

    :D lol

  218. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:48 am

    tyanksfan36 December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 am
    I too think some prospects are hyped up but some are pretty amazing. I know that I was impressed by every game I went to that Betances pitched. Will he ever make it in the majors? No one knows but as good as he was when I saw him. I wouldn’t put it past him to be good if he doesn’t get hurt, If he gets traded he would be good for some other team too.
    _____
    Well, I think this is one of the points. To collapse all prospects as “great” is the same as saying all prospects are expendable. Maybe some are less expendable than others. And of course some potentially very good ones will be trade chips. However, all prospects are not created equal.

    And I wholeheartedly agree about Betances. He is special. Could he not further develop, get hurt, suddenly lose the ability to repeat his short-lived ability to repeat his delivery. Sure. But having seen him enough, I don’t want to trade him if I don’t have to. Ditto Montero. There are maybe 5 prospects I feel that way about; not the 100+ prospects in our system, five.

  219. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:49 am

    LGY December 12th, 2010 at 12:45 am
    I love Gary Sanchez as much as the next guy, but I think it is a bit early to say the kid has 80 power.
    _____
    He/she was referring to Montero.

  220. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 12:50 am

    You are talking up Gary Sanchez as if he is the next coming of Johnny Bench

    The player in question was JESUS MONTERO. the discussion was about cashman having traded Jesus for two months of lee. the other stuff was all you friend.

  221. tyanksfan36 December 12th, 2010 at 12:51 am

    Rob_NY

    I agree with you. I’ve said before that I like when we have a homegrown Yankee in the lineup if only to show people that the yankees don’t buy the best all the time( see. Cano,Robinson) I too like to see them grow to their full potential. I’ve told my dad its a shame he didn’t take me to more rays games when I was younger because then I’d probably like them, and they do a lot of promoting within. Its nice to have the teixerias and Sabathias but to be able to develop those players all along is really something.

  222. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:51 am

    Patrick December 12th, 2010 at 12:36 am
    By the way, i don’t see how Lee waiting to sign is either good or bad for the Yankees. Sabathia waited for awhile after getting the Yankee offer too
    _______
    Quite so. We have no idea what is going on.

  223. kd December 12th, 2010 at 12:52 am

    the only two players that cashman offered montero for were halliday and lee. arguably the two best pitchers in the league. a+ talent. potential hall of famers at this point in their careers.

    the level of talent is evident. cash sees jesus in the a+ level of talent. you don’t trade that guy for a or b+ talent. only the best.

    just wait and watch that guy hit, the mariners will rue the day that they didn’t make that trade.

    in 15 years you’ll be watching mlb network shows about how the mariners could have gotten that guy, like the red sox trading away jeff bagwell.

    they’ll sign lee. they got to keep their best minor league hitter since jeter. it’s a good time to be a yankee fan

  224. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 12:55 am

    See, I understand the desire to trade for Lee, but not as a *two month rental* with the cost being Montero.

  225. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 1:00 am

    kd
    They’ll sign lee. they got to keep their best minor league hitter since jeter. it’s a good time to be a yankee fan.
    _____
    Here’s hoping, and agree it is definitely a good time to be a Yankee fan.

  226. Patrick December 12th, 2010 at 1:01 am

    If I were Cashman, I’d announce that the Yankees will withdraw their offer Sunday night at 11:59pm.

    Time to move on and make other decisions.

    Well then I’m really happy you aren’t Cashman

  227. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Rob_NY December 12th, 2010 at 12:42 am
    “The farm system is there to help and supplement the team – not to be some be all to end all.”

    I disagree and so should everyone else. The farm system is the life blood of your franchise. Given the choice between rooting for Jeter-Cano-Posada and Grandy-A-Rod-Swish I root for the homegrown guys 100% of the time (and I love A-Rod). The game isn’t about buying the shiniest new toy and supplementing them with guys like Ramiro Pena. It’s about grooming the next big hitter from the time he’s 17 and watching him flourish with your team.

    Saying that the system is there to supplement the free agents is really to have the roles of each mode of player development completely backwards IMHO.

    rob yours is a different & more general argument but I happen to agree that FA need to supplement guys through the system or ones the system turns into trades really a combination of both i would say.

  228. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 1:05 am

    kd December 12th, 2010 at 12:52 am
    the only two players that cashman offered montero for were halliday and lee. arguably the two best pitchers in the league. a+ talent. potential hall of famers at this point in their careers.

    the level of talent is evident. cash sees jesus in the a+ level of talent. you don’t trade that guy for a or b+ talent. only the best

    philosophically yes except both pitchers in their 30s. they’d have to be Felix age for me to pull the trigger,esp if the yanks really believe montero can hold up behind the dish

  229. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2010 at 1:05 am

    I’m out. Hopefully by the AM, the hunter will have been hunted down and stuffed into a pinstriped bag en route to the Bronx. Night, all.

  230. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2010 at 1:10 am

    good night to you too.

  231. kd December 12th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    i am not trying to be overly optimistic, but i am not super worried about what the sox have done. they spent a ton of money (300 million plus) on two players, only one of which will age well.

    yes, 7 years for lee is completely nuts. but for 4 of those seven years, he’ll be a top 5 pitcher. (let’s hope) neither crawford or agon are top 5 players. and won’t be 4 years into their deals.

    and remember that we have 3 first ballot, potentially unanimous hall of fame players. they simply don’t

  232. West Coast Yankee Fan December 12th, 2010 at 4:46 am

    “For one thing, in case you hadn’t noticed, the once-flammable Hank Steinbrenner apparently has escaped the dungeon in Tampa and has either been given permission by brother Hal to speak publicly again or he’s gone rogue instead”.

    – John Harper/NYDN

  233. wernerman December 12th, 2010 at 4:54 am

    This circus with Lee proves one thing. Unfortunately, the Yankees have very few options beyond Lee. This is why he can hold this whole process hostage and just drag it on and on. If the Yankees had other options, I believe they would have drawn a line in the sand by now. There has been so much talk about Crawford not being worth 20 million a year and that is probably true. The question for everyone here should be is this guy worth 20 some million for seven years. I don’t think ,look at his pitching. He is good but not that good. Get a pitcher who can keep you in games and hope that the offense performs evenly this year and not streaky like last year. One last thing, the Yankees will regret lee’s contract if they get him. Seven years is crazy.

  234. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 7:02 am

    Something to think about is this; CC had a long time to decide where he was going during his FA period. He got the Yankee offer really early on, before Thanksgiving, and he decided on taking it in December.

    Cliff Lee was given the offers Thursday/Friday. In terms of how long it is taking him to decide, while it may seem like its moving slowly, if he decides today or even by this coming Wednesday, it will be fast compared to CC.

    We knew the Yankees were targeting him, so it makes it seem as if he had the offer for a long time, but that just isn’t the case.

    As to the trade deal that fell through for Lee, Montero would have hurt to see go from the view of what he might turn out to be, but he might bust as well. There is no knowing with someone who hasn’t played ML ball. Even then you could have someone who is incredible, then flops. Lee has shown that he can pitch well for a while now.

    When push comes to shove, especially for the Yankees, you would rather have the known commodity over the unknown, and the difference between a pitcher who is a dominating left handed starter is rare as it is. Pitching is tough to come by, and while a big batting catcher is rare as well, you can make do with a catcher who has a better defense and can still hit enough to put the ball in play.

    If they get Lee, then great. If the Rangers get Lee, then move on. Its the way things go in baseball. Over all I do think that the Rangers will come out the losers either way this goes.

    They’ll have a hard time dealing with payroll issues paying Lee that amount. They will also see payroll demands from other players going up when one guy who pitches is making so much. Yeah, the West isn’t a strong division, but Texas usually loses out to the Angels and they aren’t going to lay down for any length of time. Ryan is also one who believes the pitchers are coddled. What if his philosophy is wrong and he destroys more young arms than develops? That’s what happened in the past, and why the pitchers are treated differently now, but Ryan knows better?

    I just think too many fans are over the top with this deal. Lee would be a great addition, he would make the team better, and it might influence Andy coming back, but that doesn’t mean the Yankees are done if they don’t get him. It may take a different route, but no season goes as planned anyway.

  235. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 7:07 am

    Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 7:02 am

    Good post, someone that can see the big picture.

  236. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Several sports writers in Texas are hoping they don’t get Lee, thinking the 7 years and the $$$ is too much, and will hurt the team going forward, and they may be right.

    Texas is not the Yankees, they can’t afford to make that big of a mistake, if Lee didn’t turn out, the Yankees can.

  237. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 7:16 am

    MTU -

    Good morning, get your coffee and tell me about your hike yesterday.

  238. PacoDooley December 12th, 2010 at 7:26 am

    Anyone that compares the Lee situation to Maddux was not a Yankees fan back when they pursued Maddux (or they are not well informed). That was a loser team that was widely viewed as a bad place to play – a bad owner that drove players and managers mad, a crazy location (a Bronx that was in much worse shape) and a team that had no recent tradition of winning.

  239. AldotheApache December 12th, 2010 at 7:32 am

    Yogi Mantle, BIG AL, good observations to start the day.

  240. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 7:35 am

    Good morning Aldo long time no talk.

  241. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 7:47 am

    Big Al, the Yankees would be hurting a bit if Lee doesn’t pan out, its hard to eat 20+ million no matter who you are. That said, the Yankees have absorbed bad contracts in the past, and will again.

    The Rangers are in a different position though. Their payroll isn’t all that high as it is. I just think that Ryan is driving the boat on the Lee negotiations because he wants to “beat” the Yankees, its emotional rather than business driven. While there is value in their getting Lee, I think he can make any club better, I just don’t think it adds as much as the long term ramifications for the Rangers will be. They are coming off bankruptcy, they have gotten a TV deal which will help bring in money, but they are unproven in that market, and till they prove themselves to be watched the money won’t be huge. If Texas continues to struggle in the later part of the season, and the Angels bounce back to normal, the Rangers aren’t going to have enough support.

    The Rangers move with this reminds me of the Nationals going after Werth.

    I would enjoy seeing Lee come to the Yankees, but I would also like to see some of the farm hands get a shot to show what they have. I know the pitching is supposed to be a year or so away from being deemed ready, but sometimes that plan can change through need. Sometimes it works for the best as well.

    Nova didn’t pitch well once he hit the 5th inning, but he was really good to start out. He might get it figured out. And he isn’t thought of as the best of the bunch.

  242. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Al-
    I really have no words to adequately describe it. The pictures speak for themselves. We travelled about 200 miles RT. And when I say that place was in the middle of nowhere. I mean the middle of nowhere. Only someone as crazy as myself and a few others would make the trip. It was worth any effort it took. World class place.
    Can’t tell you how lucky I feel that I have had these chances to see it.
    A bucket list type of place IMO.

    :)

  243. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Yogi Mantle -

    I understand your point about the young arms getting a chance, but, they have to be brought along at the right pace. GB7 had it right, they will most likely bring some young arms up and put them in the BP, then move them to SP, as opening occur. As to Nova, good point, but, this is not just a problem with Nova, but all the SP in MiLB system because they don’t allow them to pitch through trouble, get taken out of games after 5, maybe 6 innings. This is a problem caused by Nardi and his way of handling the pitchers. Pitchers should be stretched out in the minor leagues, so they are prepared when they get called up. If things don’t change at the lower levels, this will remain an on going problem.

    Right now, it’s just wait and see with Lee, or what other options Cashman might have open to him.

  244. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 7:57 am

    MTU -

    A bucket list – Are you trying to tell me something?

    Only kidding, that would be on my bucket list for sure.

  245. PacoDooley December 12th, 2010 at 7:58 am

    I think a lot of people are feeling like they can spend more on Lee than they would otherwise be willing to since it basically buys them Lee and getting to keep the guys (mainly Montero) that they didn’t have to send in a trade to land him. That sort of hindsight doesn’t work. I for one think that it is still a shame that that trade fell through, even if they land Lee since it was probably the difference between a trip to the WS and going home early – and you should be willing to pay a lot for a trip to the WS. But now they have to decide what is best for the team through the next several years, and having well over $100m going to 5 players for the next half a decade has to hurt the long term success of the team.

  246. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:01 am

    Al-

    I didn’t think I died and went to Heaven. I KNOW I did. Total sensory overload scheduled for these next several days. Next up. “The Wave” on Monday.

    :)

  247. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:11 am

    MTU -

    Ran out with the mops.

    I guess you have a lot of hikes planned, does that mean your weather’s gotten better.

  248. coney1 December 12th, 2010 at 8:12 am

    incarceratedbob

    **BREAKING NEWS** Unless Yankees make a miracle offer ( 25 Million for 7 or 8 years ) Cliff Lee will announce he is staying with Texas –

    Does this guy have any credibility?

  249. DocTodd December 12th, 2010 at 8:14 am

    Cashman needs to close the deal now….thrown in a Red Ryder dual action BB gun rifle…spare no expense!

  250. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:14 am

    You’re the only one posting incarcerated bob, what do you think. I’ve never found him to be correct on anything.

  251. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:15 am

    Al-
    Absolutely. It was 70 yesterday. Stays the same for at least several more days. Please don’t throw any bricks thru your screen.

    :)

  252. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:16 am

    DocTodd -

    Cashman did close the deal, it’s now up to Lee.

    Quite frankly, I really don’t care one way or the other at this point.

  253. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:17 am

    MTU -

    We came out of our cold snap for 2 days, and have another coming in today, a least 1 week of sub freezing temps, all the way down to central FL.

  254. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Al-

    Guess I better duck then. At least you’re not in JCPD country. Have they dug him out yet ?

    :)

  255. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:21 am

    MTU -

    The storm in MN is heading his way, they expect his area to get up to 4′ of snow. If he lays down to make a snow angel, we may not find him until the spring thaw, which up there is late April.

  256. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 8:21 am

    wernerman December 12th, 2010 at 4:54 am
    This circus with Lee proves one thing. Unfortunately, the Yankees have very few options beyond Lee. This is why he can hold this whole process hostage and just drag it on and on. If the Yankees had other options, I believe they would have drawn a line in the sand by now. There has been so much talk about Crawford not being worth 20 million a year and that is probably true.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Agree Lee has us by the you know what. This Crawford money thing is amazing, if he helps get them to the WS while still in his prime who really cares, they don’t. I’m upset he got away so easily with nothing on our end being a done deal and now he’s playing for our top competitor. I just think this money argument is on the part of most people is just trying to spin something bad somehow into something good.

  257. coney1 December 12th, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Does anybody feel Cashman should be in Arkansas right now raising the 7 year, $161M to 7 years and $175M and just seal the deal? It worries me that the Rangers had the last point of contact with Lee and who knows what their offer was. The only reason why it’s a MUST that the Yanks get Lee is to salvage their farm system. Who knows what Cashman will give up for the mediocre starters that are available via trade? I’d hate to lose a Montero, Banuelos, or Betances for Ricky Nolasco.

  258. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Al-

    :)

    I know what he needs for Xmas.

  259. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:25 am

    MTU -

    Snow shoes!

  260. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    I would not raise the offer to Lee, we are already above the Rangers offer, if that’s not enough, then let him stay in Texas.

  261. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:26 am

    Al-

    A trip to the Carribean.

  262. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Big Al, I agree at this point just get it over with up or down. Cashman already looks bad and if Lee goes to Texas the Yanks it just gets worst. Cashman let himself get outmanuvered by Boston on Crawford cause he was so sure he was going to get Lee. No if he gets neither he’s scrambling for the remaining crumbs out there while the real prizes are gone. I just don’t give this guy the credit others seem to give him.

  263. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:28 am

    MTU -

    Only if you and I go along as tour guides!

  264. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Al-

    I agree. If it were me I would have already imposed a deadline.

    If I’m Cash I’m movin’ on 1st thing Monday morning. Lee or no Lee.

    ;)

  265. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:29 am

    Al-

    You wouldn’t have to twist my arm.

    ;)

  266. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 8:31 am

    If I’m Cash I’m movin’ on 1st thing Monday morning. Lee or no Lee.

    Well I’m hoping that you don’t want to be Cash after the latest screwups

  267. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Being that Ryan is friendly with Bush, maybe the threat made was that if Lee didn’t sign with the Rangers they were going arrange a hunting trip for Lee with Cheney.

    Coney, I think your way of thinking is exactly why Braunecker is playing it this way.

    Make the sides and get nervous enough to up their bids. There comes a point where you stop and let the chips fall. I don’t think either side is going to add more unless they are asked specifically for it, at that point it would come with the provision that if the club agrees then the deal is done.

  268. Stoneburner December 12th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Again – no one prospect is bigger than the team. If the Yankees management and farm directors believe Montero can help the major league team – the most important part of the organization – he will be dealt. Not sure for what – but for any one to gush over Montero, especially when most have either not seen or just watched him online via milb.com – is being unrealistic – only the Yankees and their evaluators know what they have with Montero. We do not know if Montero will reach his potential offensively at the major league level and make the greatest adjustment of all OR how he will hold up defensively OR . . . gulp . . . whether he really is just 21 years old. I saw it w/ Brien Taylor, Ruben Rivera, Russ Davis,and Derek Jeter, then again with Nick Johnson, Alfonso Soriano, and Brandon Claussen, and then most recently with Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy, and Alan Horne – people get way too caught up with the prospects. They are there to help the major league team – not define it – that’s not how the Yankees do business – the mix and match – they have a 200 million dollar payroll – if you want to follow a team that builds through the farm – go follow the As or the Rays or now the Pirates. Case in point – OF last season should have been Gardner and Austin Jackson . . . if this is truly your mantra. Or the Yankees should not have signed Teixeira and just waited for Jesus Montero to take 1b and put Romine behind the plate. Or the Yankees should have stuck with Ian Kennedy and the young guns instead of acquiring Sabathia. They should have stuck with Joba and Robertson in the 8th inning role instead of picking up Kerry Wood. Ask yourself honestly – are you ready to go through 75-85 wins for three years hoping the kids are alright – b/c the Yankees are not. No, as Cashman has said, and rightfully so, prospects are just suspects – and they are commodity to either supplement the major league club in areas of need OR to be used to acquire something that supplements the club.

    And I use the word supplement b/c no one player defines the team – they all supplement and add to the 25 man roster to form one cohesive unit striving for a championship.

    Finally, the way people act is that they would rather have the memories of Jesus Montero hitting 35 homeruns and hitting .320 for his career than winning a championship. Go ask a Mets fan about whether they would trade the memories of rooting for Mike Piazza’s regular season highlights over winning the 2000 subway series. Unreal. . . .

  269. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Gary -

    Cashman was put in a very difficult position. He was forced to wait until signing Lee, or not, before he could make other deals, because pieces he didn’t want to lose needed to be dealt only if Lee didn’t sign.

    Crawford is a good player, but not a $20M/year player.

    Remember Boston only replaced 2 lost bats, with 2 new bats, and although there may be a slight up side, they still have a great amount of questions, such as, will the injured players come back and be productive, will the SP hold up, or go into the dumper like last year, will they get a good C. Way more question marks than the Yankees, have faith, all will be good.

  270. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Gary-

    There is only so much a GM can do. Cashman cannot force Lee to take the offer. I just would move on very soon.

  271. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Gary-

    How’d the fishing go ?

  272. Yogi Mantle December 12th, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Gary, how exactly does Cashman look bad? He can’t control what a new owner will do, nor what a player will do, and Ryan is driving this thing beyond what is good for his club. Sometimes that happens. Hicks did the same thing, and look where it got them.

    Cashman made the best offer the Yankees are willing to do at this point. Should he kick in his own paycheck to get Lee to sign?

    The only reason why Cashman “looks bad” is because the media is driving that song, as they always do when the Yankees are involved with anything. They all speak in absolutes.

  273. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Make the sides and get nervous enough to up their bids. There comes a point where you stop and let the chips fall. I don’t think either side is going to add more unless they are asked specifically for it, at that point it would come with the provision that if the club agrees then the deal is done.

    I can’t see this going beyone today for any practical reason. These guys have unlimited resources at their disposal to access the merits of legal and financial impacts. In this case I’m pretty sure they are working weekends. If it goes beyond it’s just gamemanship or that Lee doesn’t really want to go to NY. Let him stay in Texas and move on.

  274. AldotheApache December 12th, 2010 at 8:35 am

    MTU, mornin. How’ve you been?

    Do you have recent photos? If so, this thread or a previous one?

  275. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Yogi, sorry buddy. Cashman looks bad because of last winter and I can’t seem to convince myself that this years actions are much better. He exposed the Yanks because he wasn’t agressive enough in protecting our other options. Now his principal target may not even show up. If your happy with the kind of performance then so be it. I respect your opinion, I just tend to set the bar higher.

  276. BD (Boston Dave) December 12th, 2010 at 8:39 am

    If it’s about $ for Lee, then he signs with NY.

    If the bogus 7/175 rumor were true, it’s a good sign for the Yankees, IMO.

    This agent has shown he’ll squeeze as much $ as possible.

    If Lee wants to go to Texas at this point, he’s getting less money. Much less.

    If it’s about $, it’s the Yankees. A few extra million on top of the already top offer isn’t going to land Lee

  277. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:41 am

    Aldo-

    Great. Thanks for asking. You ?

    here you go. Enjoy.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/cy.....Yz-0f_CUQ#

  278. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 8:42 am

    BD your correct it isn’t totally about the money. It’s because he has reservations about coming here. I hope behind the scenes we the Yanks talking to him are winning the PR battle against the Rangers that are also talking to him

  279. blake December 12th, 2010 at 8:43 am

    MTU,

    Nice pics bud….

  280. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Blake-

    Glad you liked.

    Unfortunately we have no news on Clifford. :(

  281. blake December 12th, 2010 at 8:48 am

    MTU,

    it’ll either be today or tomorrow. If I’m the Yanks and 7/175 gets it done then I go there….still beats the alternatives that we know about (unless Cash has better ones up his sleeve that we don’t know about).

  282. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:51 am

    MTU -

    What, you couldn’t get any good shots with that camera?

    Man, I see what you mean, well worth the journey.

  283. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Blake-

    I’m not sure the extra money would make a difference. I’m confident that we exceeded Texas’s offer by quite a large amount. I would have
    given Lee’s agent a drop-dead time already. We need to get on down the road for other things.

    :)

  284. AldotheApache December 12th, 2010 at 8:52 am

    MTU, been very well, thanks, very busy though with work and stuff.

    Amazing, amazing, amazing …

    You are indeed fortunate to lay your naked eyes on those creations.

    Thanks for sharing.

  285. blake December 12th, 2010 at 8:53 am

    MTU,

    We shall see.

  286. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Al-

    Wait till I get the new one ! The photos DO NOT do it justice. It’s a magical place.

    :)

  287. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Make the sides and get nervous enough to up their bids. There comes a point where you stop and let the chips fall. I don’t think either side is going to add more unless they are asked specifically for it, at that point it would come with the provision that if the club agrees then the deal is done.

    ________________________________________________________________________

    Agree, I think they are forced to wait it out. Just tells me there aren’t other otions out there near as good as Lee or the other ones that got away. The Yanks are stuck.

  288. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:54 am

    Aldo-

    You are most welcome. It’s my pleasure to share. It’s a labor of love.

    I urge you to see them for yourself.

    :)

  289. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Blake-

    That’s the good news. That it should be over, one way or another, soon.

  290. Howe Farr December 12th, 2010 at 8:58 am

    no game tomorrow:

    Metrodome roof collapses under snow

  291. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 8:58 am

    MTU -

    Just like in the movies, you’ll be needing a grip, as in “Al the Grip”.

  292. AldotheApache December 12th, 2010 at 8:59 am

    MTU, how much time to get there?

  293. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Just in the Metrodome roof has collapsed due to the snow load. There is a picture on the web. Not sure what that means for the Giants game. Expect not good. Waiting to see what the live report is.

  294. UnKnown December 12th, 2010 at 9:02 am

    5th time the dome roof has collapsed ever. Lots and lots of snow yesterday in the Twin Cities.

  295. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Aldo,

    It’s about an hour, hour and a half from Mesquite, NV.

    Mesquite is about 90 miles NE of Vegas.

    You’d need a 4WD and someone to show you the way.

  296. Howe Farr December 12th, 2010 at 9:03 am

    video of the metrodome….without a dome, amazing:

    http://www.kare11.com/news/new.....;catid=391

  297. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 9:03 am

    Back later -

  298. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 9:04 am

    News update is that the roof has deflated. I guess everything is on hold pending an evaluation. No decison yet on Monday’s game

  299. blake December 12th, 2010 at 9:08 am

    MTU,

    If Lee doesn’t workout (and I still think it will)….then I think Cash will still find a way to improve the team….if its by trade or by loading the bullpen up or whatever. The one thing that does concern me a bit is what impact Lee’s decision will have on Andy….

  300. murphydog December 12th, 2010 at 9:12 am

    Loopyca update: All the Yankees do is spend money. It’s bad to spend money on Cliff Lee. But Loopy ranted all the time that it was good to spend money on Jeter at 37. Hmmm.

    But check this one out:

    “Maybe if the Yankees developed young pitching it wouldn’t always be like this. But they hardly ever do, despite all their money. When they needed the crown pitching jewel of the organization – Phil Hughes – to pitch like one of the San Francisco Giants’ kids did against the Rangers in the World Series, Hughes could not. Twice.”

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....z17uCiBtMq

    Some facts for Mikey. Lincecum was a 1st round, no. 10 pick in 2006. Where did the Yankees pick that year? Let’s just say later than that. And who picks a little freak like Timmy anyway? Bless his little pot smoking butt, that boy can pitch but he wasn’t supposed to be able to. Lincecum is not about SF developing a pitcher. He’s a freak talent.

    Matt Cain 1st round, 25th pick in 2002. Madison Baumgarner 1st round 10th pick in 2007, etc. Development is important but when your team sucks and gets high draft position, you take top talent off the board early and your development department looks really brilliant. You get the point, even if Mikey Loopyca refuses to.

    And um by the way, Loopyca, I seem to recall SF giving a contract to a guy named Zito a few years ago. A big one. Development? How’s that working out, you lazy, self-important piece of dreck?

  301. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Blake-

    It’s good to be an optimist, and I hope that’s the way it works out too.

    And of course, Cash will find other ways to improve the team. Of that I am fairly certain.

    Will any of them be as good as a Lee solution ? I kind of doubt that.

    Will they still be effective ? I think so.

    I’m not sure that Losing out on Lee will tilt AP over into retirement.

    You could argue that it might make it more likely for him to be brought back.

    Whatever happens it needs to be brought to a close in an expeditious manner.

    Let’s get this show on the road. ;)

  302. Crawdaddy December 12th, 2010 at 9:15 am

    Why some Yankee fans read Loopy is beyond me.

  303. Bronx Jeers December 12th, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Contract decisions are kind of like fish. Both start to stink on the 3rd day.

  304. Doreen December 12th, 2010 at 9:19 am

    MTU -

    Good morning.

    Those may be the best pictures so far, if only because every single one of them looked like it could a creature of some sort. One looked like a pack of wolves, one looked like the Yeti, I think I saw a turtle/crocodile. A Rohrschach test almost!! Amazing.

  305. AldotheApache December 12th, 2010 at 9:20 am

    Murphydog, I stopped reading lupica years ago. His columns are predictable. He’s a New Englander making a living writing for a NY paper, simple as that.

    I could go on about his hypocrisy and self-importance, but what would be the point? He can do it for you without my help.

  306. JCPD December 12th, 2010 at 9:23 am

    MTU, I have my snowshoes with me, I will get to use them this week when I’m off. Getting ready for another 3 feet that is supposed to be starting later today.

  307. blake December 12th, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Murph,
    Well said as usual. Typical no effort regurgitation by Lupica.
    —-–—–

    Here’s a question for everyone. Let’s say its going to take at least 7/161 to sign Cliff Lee and that Zack Greinke could be aquired without including Montero in the deal. Which would be better?

    Lee would be just money, but would be an extremely long term comittment that cones with significant risk. Greinke comes with risk as well (makeup questions) and would cost prospects but he doesn’t come with the longterm monetary and age related risks and he would likely allow payroll space to improve other areas of the club (bullpen) more aggressively as well.

    Personally I still sign Lee if possible but for the money and years we’re at now…..both options carry significant risk. I wouldn’t trade Montero but IF he could be aquired with other players then Im warming to that idea in the event that Lee chooses Texas.

  308. MTU December 12th, 2010 at 9:30 am

    Doreen-

    Glad you were able to see what a saw when I was there. The place is magic. I am very glad you enjoyed them. My pleasure to share.

    If you would, could you please have Chad send me your e-mail address ? That way I could be certain to send you photos in the future if you desire it.

    JCPD-

    Whew ! :(

  309. JCPD December 12th, 2010 at 9:44 am

    MTU, great shots. Looks a little different than what I’d be shooting right now.

  310. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 9:54 am

    JCPD -

    Please do not lie down and make any snow angels, we may not find you again until Spring.

    Send pictures – Mike pissed me off this morning telling me it’s in the 70′s by him, while I freeze here, but, I’m better off than you, ha, ha.

  311. randy l. December 12th, 2010 at 9:55 am

    “But the newest Red Sox star is “this generation’s Rickey Henderson”- daily news

    some of henderson’s stolen base before age 29:
    100
    130
    108
    87

    carl crawford almost got 61 stolen bases once.

    yeah, i think they are comparable players.

    ones a hall of famer and one’s a good player.

  312. BIG AL December 12th, 2010 at 10:10 am

    randy l. -

    You mean you can’t see it? You must not be looking through rose colored glasses.

  313. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Rich in NJ December 12th, 2010 at 9:52 am
    DaSaint007

    How has waiting on Lee prevented the execution of a Plan B?

    For better or worse, a backup plan could be in the executory stage and be executed at any moment, if necessary.
    ——————————

    Unless I’m mistaken, no plan B has been executed.
    ‘In the executory stage’ – sounds like planning to me, but not execution. And I’m not sure that the other team just waits around for when Cashman has no choice but to execute. That’s unfair to them, as I’m sure they have needs as well.

  314. DaSaint007 December 12th, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    If I were Cashman – and yes, many of you are glad I’m not – I’d state that I’m withdrawing or reducing my offer to 6 years $120M. Take it or leave it.

    If he leaves it, so be it. This organization, winning tradition and all, has to think long term. A rotation of CC, Hughes, AJ, and Pettitte is nothing to sneeze at. AJ will bounce back for at least 5 additional wins. And if Andy retires, so be it, find a #4 starter somewhere who can eat innings and keep the game within reach.

    It’s sad that we don’t think an offense built around Jeter, Granderson, Swisher, Tex, ARod, Posada, Gardner and whoever’s catching can’t deliver 5+ runs a game for any pitcher. I mean really? I don’t care if the starter and bullpen give up 4 runs, we still should be able to top that consistently.

    To think that we need a 7 year, $160+M savior otherwise we won’t make it to the WS is absurd. By adding a couple reliable pieces, particulary the bullpen and bench, we can still be the team that we’re supposed to be.

    Let Lee stay in Texas.

  315. Gary December 12th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    It’s sad that we don’t think an offense built around Jeter, Granderson, Swisher, Tex, ARod, Posada, Gardner and whoever’s catching can’t deliver 5+ runs a game for any pitcher. I mean really? I don’t care if the starter and bullpen give up 4 runs, we still should be able to top that consistently.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Well they didn’t in the playoffs, it might have been nice to get even 3 runs. You have guys in there that don’t hit good pitching. The way you win is to beat good hitting with good pitching. It never works the other way around.

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